June 7, 2024 • 34 mins
An exploration of Bahá’í-inspired approaches to depolarization building on what we've been learning over the past few episodes from the world's leading luminaries in this discourse.
Part One explores what we can do to limit the influence of toxic polarization in our own lives and how we can best regulate our own behavior so we don't unintentionally contribute to the problem.
Show notes:
Dr. Peter Coleman's Polarization Detox Challenge: https://startswith.us/pdc/
Gary Friedman: https://understandinginconflict.org/training/
Chapters
0:00 Introduction
8:09 Five Principles for Depolarization
10:26 Polarization as Social Pollutant
21:41 An Etiquette of Expression
29:10 Training for Depolarization
31:32 Closing Thoughts
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Society Builders pave the way To a better world, to a better day. A united approach to building
a new society. Join the conversation for social transformation - Society Builders. Society Builders
(00:23):
with your host Duane Varan. (Duane) Welcome to another exciting episode of Society Builders and
thanks for joining the conversation for social transformation. Now allow me to start today's
episode with a bit of a bird's eye view of where our journey together has been navigating us to
(00:43):
over the past year or so. In episodes 18 and 19, we began exploring one of the fundamental pillars
of society building engaging with the prevalent discourses of society. We explored what this means
particularly from a Baha i perspective and we discussed strategies for effectively engaging with
(01:04):
such discourse. Now I then wanted to take us on a journey exploring a SPECIFIC discourse and here,
of course, I focused on the contemporary issues associated with the rampant polarization that
is currently plaguing the world. I did this so we could explore what discourse looks like how
we engage with a new discourse. Now, I could have focused on any number of discourse themes:
(01:30):
the environment, race unity, the empowerment of women I mean these are all great examples of
discourses that Baha'is would normally engage with. And in due course, we ll explore all of
these and more. But I chose the polarization focus here specifically for a number of reasons (01:41):
First,
it was something I knew absolutely nothing about. In fact, I remember being blown away when I read
reference to the need for us to bring antagonistic people closer together thinking, how on earth do
(02:04):
you do that? And that was exactly what I wanted a challenge I knew nothing about - so that we
could together go through the process of engaging with a new discourse from scratch. An authentic
journey similar to the ones you will face when you encounter new discourse themes. Second, it had an urgency to it that was reflected repeatedly in guidance from the Universal House of Justice who
(02:32):
describe the world's situation today as polarized and paralyzed , with prejudices polarizing
societies at a time when unity is more vital to resolving local, national and global challenges ;
calling on us to resist the pull of controversial and polarizing debates. And this guidance is a
(02:56):
reflection on the extent to which polarization has emerged as one of the dominant issues of
our day all over the world. So the gravity of this particular theme seemed particularly urgent. This
is front and center with Baha'u'llah advice that we engage with the needs of the age in which ye
(03:17):
live in and polarization clearly meets that test. It responds to one of the most critical needs of
THIS age. Third, polarization intersects at the very heart of the mission of Baha'u'llah. I mean,
bringing antagonistic groups together this is EXACTLY what we re about. It s the ultimate
(03:40):
expression of the unifying power of the Faith. Fourth, it s foundational. And what I mean by this
is that learning how to address polarization is a skill that helps us in just about any other
discourse we engage with because almost all modern discourse will require this capacity for us to
(04:03):
help bring people together. So gaining new skills and insights around depolarization helps lay a
foundation for our capacity to engage effectively with other discourse themes. And finally, I felt
it was an arena that had great opportunity for engaging and collaborating with others and with
(04:26):
like-minded organizations. And here, specifically, this view was shaped by reading the work of Nealin
Parker who features in episode 27 who, together with her research team at Princeton University,
has identified over 6,700 organizations in the US alone working to find paths to depolarization.
(04:48):
So this was the underlying rationale for the polarization focus. And what we ve been
doing from episodes 20 onwards has been getting ourselves up to speed on the scientific knowledge
that exists in the existing discourse. This is where we should always start - by reading society
(05:10):
listening and coming to terms with the existing discourse. And here, we ve been incredibly
fortunate to learn directly from the leading luminaries in the world in this discourse.
And so today and over the next few episodes, we re going to try to bring some synthesis to what we've
(05:30):
been learning from these amazing individuals and from their research and experience. And in that
context, we re going to try to explore how this relates to Bahá’í perspectives and how we might
bring new contributions to the discourse at present. Now that s an incredibly tall order
(05:51):
well beyond my capacity, for sure. So we won t get it perfectly right and it won t be comprehensive.
But we can at least scratch the surface here and explore some possibilities to at least
demonstrate the potential of such an approach. So today, we start exploring Bahá’í perspectives
towards depolarization. (musical interlude)Now once again, I need to offer a bit of a disclaimer
(06:25):
here to remind you that I speak with no authority here. This podcast is a personal initiative it
does not necessarily reflect the views of any Bahá’í agency. So you should weigh the ideas
here for yourselves. Again, my voice is no more important than your voice so explore at your own
risk (laughs). And an added caution. It s far too premature to argue that anything could be a
(06:51):
true Bahá’í perspective on depolarization. In the same way that we don t really yet have something
akin to Bahá’í art or Bahá’í music or even Baha'i education, for that matter - we definitely
don t have a distinctive approach to this issue of polarization. So I use the term Bahá’í perspective
here in a very broad sense and not in any kind of official sense. It s more that we re exploring
(07:17):
Bahá’í -INSPIRED approaches to depolarization. And one final disclaimer we explore this theme
of depolarization with a focus on what WE can do and not on what we might expect others to do. In
other words, we re not talking about social policy or workplace law or anything macro. We re talking
(07:40):
about the things we can do in our own lives in our interaction with those in our orb what we
can do directly to help remedy polarization by integrating Bahá’í -inspired approaches. OK so
with those clarifications, let s embark upon our little journey here. (musical interlude). Now,
(08:10):
rather than go through a linear review each of our recent episodes, I thought I d weave across
the interviews to pull out some key themes and explore how Bahá’í approaches might contribute to
these strands of the depolarization discourse. Our approach won t be comprehensive it ll be
illustrative. In other words, I won t cover everything we've learned but I'll pull out a
(08:34):
few key insights to explore how we might integrate Bahá’í -inspired perspectives. And specifically,
we re going to explore just FIVE of the key principles that have emerged across these
interviews. These are five of the most important principles that grow out of the research on the
science of depolarization. And for each of these, we re going to explore how Bahá’í
(08:56):
perspectives might contribute to advancing the discourse further. And so over the next few
episodes we re going to explore these five themes including: * Forces that act as an
accelerant to polarization and what we can do to help prevent that influence in our own lives and
(09:16):
how to safeguard against ourselves adding fuel to the fire. * How polarization dehumanizes
the other and what we can do to help rehumanize the equation. * How we can enhance our capacity
to listen and understand, which are critical to effective depolarization. * How we can help
(09:40):
break binaries narratives that reduce problems to conflict between two opposing forces. * How we
can enhance the environments under which contact between antagonistic groups are facilitated.
Now again, this doesn t cover everything we've learned. But I think it s good ground for
(10:01):
us to cover which will help illustrate how Bahá’í perspectives can contribute to this discourse. So
that s our game plan. And obviously, that s too much for us to cover in a single episode, so we ll
cover this ground across a few episodes. So let's dig in. (musical interlude). Now polarization
(10:29):
is a social pollutant. Just like there might be toxic particles in the air we breathe,
if we live in society if we interact with society we re going to contract this toxic polarization
in our everyday lives. It doesn't matter that we don t approve of it, that it s not compatible with
(10:50):
our beliefs if we live in society we re going to breathe in toxic polarization every day.
So we can't stop it BUT we can certainly limit its influence. But this requires that we become
more aware better sensitized to it. And this requires active reflection reflection on what we
(11:16):
breathe in what we inhale - but also reflection on what we exhale on our actions. Because as we
become contaminated, we can also accelerate and add fuel to the polarization disease,
despite our best intentions. So we start our discussion on strategies to depolarize with a
(11:38):
focus on - ourselves. This is not about what others should or shouldn t do it s about you
it s about me and what WE can do to both limit the toxically polarized pollutants coming in
but also to regulate our own behavior so we don t further contribute to the problem. Now our guests
(12:04):
on these podcasts have been really helpful in helping us understand this dynamic. I think the
most common space where most of us interact with this kind of toxic polarization is in our social
media spheres. Now in episode 26, Dr. Lisa Schrich did an amazing job in helping us understand how
(12:25):
polarization in social media is not coincidental it s not an accident. It s the by-product of very
deliberate strategies designed to maximize profit for the social media platforms and
a function of the work of chaos actors often from foreign adversaries actively working to undermine
(12:49):
social structures by cultivating divisions.So remember, other things being equal, if you have a
credible social media post and a highly polarized version of the same post, the algorithms on these
social media platforms will favor the polarized and further propagate these over the credible.
(13:11):
So the system is rigged to polarize. Now there are larger conversations to be had about social
policy around all of this. But for now, I d like us to focus on what this means for us in our own
daily lives. Now let s pause here for a second. Just for a moment, I d like you to think about
(13:35):
the dramatic social transformation that has played out over the past two decades or so where we have
become so much more aware of our food diets. Today, when you go to a fast food restaurant
and order a burger and fries, you are keenly aware of how many calories there are in what you order.
Maybe that encourages you to order small fries instead of large ones. And when you re at the
(13:59):
supermarket buying your groceries, you pick up a can and look to see what it s ingredients are. And
maybe you pick the item that has less trans-fat, for example. So we've become a lot more conscious
and discerning and aware of what we eat.We still eat bad things, right. But we're just a lot more
(14:21):
aware of what we're eating and sometimes not always but sometimes - we regulate our behavior
armed with that knowledge. Now our social media consumption is a lot like our food diet it s
our media diet. And just like we ve become more aware of our calorie intake and the ingredients
(14:42):
we ingest we also need to become more aware of the polarized content we consume. And continuing
on with the interview with Dr. Schrich, I think what she really helped us understand here is that
what these corporations and what these foreign chaos actors are preying on is what she called
(15:02):
our reptile brain (laughs). I loved this part of the interview. In fact, let me remind you of
that part of the episode: (Dr. Lisa Schrich) So really, neuroscience is behind a lot of conflict (15:10):
undefined
behavior. When human beings can sit down calmly and breathing regularly, we can solve problems
together. We can disagree about issues, but we can maintain a sense of human dignity, relationship
(15:32):
with others. And we have our prefrontal cortex. I'm pointing to my forehead right now. We have
this amazing brain, as humans, that can link up with other people's brains and figure out creative
solutions to problems. And really, that's what conflict resolution, conflict transformation
building, that's what that's all about, is trying to create a setting, a condition where people can
(15:59):
be their best selves and work with other people to find creative solutions to problems. So,
as a mediator, for example, I'm used to sitting in a room with people who are very angry with each
other, disagreeing something. And it's my job as a mediator to lead them through a process of moving
from the reptile part of their brain in the back bottom of the brain stem, and trying to sort of
(16:26):
create enough safety in the room that they can come up to their forehead, where their thinking
brain is, where they can actually solve problems together. And so even before all this, social
media, I think neuroscience really underlies a lot of the process of conflict transformation,
moving from just an emotional response to be able to think and be mindful of our ability
(16:51):
to solve problems together.So I think when you think about neuroscience and social media,
there's a few things happening. It's showing us the emotional content which keeps us at that
brainstem. My colleagues at the Center for Humane Technology call it the race to the bottom of the
brain stem on social media. So it's this race to show us the most outrageous emotional content
(17:14):
to keep us engaged at an emotional level. (Duane) Now I love this way of framing the
problem. Polarization feeds the reptile portion of our brain it's this race to the bottom of our
brainstem. And that, in turn, is addictive. And our challenge, neurophysiologically, is to instead
(17:39):
feed the more human, the rational dimensions of our brain. Now in Bahá’í terminology, this is
what we call the struggle between our lower and higher natures, between our animal self and our
divine self between our material and spiritual self. Abdul-Baha describes how this lower self
(18:00):
is captive to nature and how our higher self transcends this all. And the whole beauty of the
human story is that we are creatures endowed with free will so we decide which version of ourselves
to empower. This reminds me of that story that I know you ve all heard it s the story of a Cherokee
(18:23):
chief explaining to his grandson that there are two wolves in all of us one evil and dark and one
noble and good. The grandson then asks, which wolf wins? To which the grandfather replies it s the
one you feed. The one you feed. And this is where our reflection and vigilance becomes so important.
(18:51):
In understanding which self we re feeding with our media diets. Now this isn t limited to
social media. The same kind of communication diet is also true in our interpersonal interactions
with others. When you re angry with someone and want to vent who do you turn to? You could turn
(19:12):
to the friend you have who will likely get you to pause reflect calm down get you questioning
whether you really need to be so angry. OR you can turn to the friend who you know will agree with
your anger reinforce it make you feel justified feed your anger. So which friend do you turn
(19:35):
to? And if we re being honest here there s a good probability that we'll turn to that second friend
because it FEELS good. It vindicates our anger it justifies it. It makes us feel right to be angry.
But while it feels good but it is probably not the most productive response. And this is what both
(19:59):
Amanda Ripley in episode 20 and Dr. Peter Coleman in episode 21 - this is what they were describing
in our attraction to conflict entrepreneurs people who are really good at feeding and
inflaming our anger at weaving polarized reaction at reinforcing our sense of being victimized.
(20:22):
You're looking for someone to reinforce your sense of anger and they re there to gratify.
Now in this context this often FEELS good. But, again, that doesn't mean it's productive. In fact,
it's probably making the situation worse.So just as we need to be discerning in our social media
(20:45):
encounters we also have to be discerning in who we confide in in who we turn to in our moments where
our emotions flair up. And, of course, we need to be on double duty on these occasions not to allow
this all to deteriorate into an opportunity for backbiting. Enough said, right. OK so whether we
(21:06):
re talking about social media or interpersonal interaction we need to be vigilant so that we're
minimizing our contact with forces that will feed and enflame polarization. We need to feed our
higher nature to rise and transcend above this all so we are less a creature of our rampant emotions
(21:30):
and we can better channel our divine selves. (musical interlude). And there s another side to
this equation and that s that we also need to be on guard lest we become an agent of polarization
(21:50):
ourselves despite our best intent.You read a social media post. It angers you.
Your emotions get triggered and you immediately post a reply that you later realize has only
further enflamed the problem. It's critical that at those moments we pause and wait before
(22:14):
posting a reply so that our emotions can settle down a bit. And that we then bring the voice of
wisdom and not just the voice of our emotion to our response, if a response is even merited.
And as we discussed in our interview with Dr. Schrich, it s much easier to have this kind of
(22:35):
uncalibrated response online than it is in person because when you say something to someone in
person, you see their reaction to your words and that reaction is often disarming. You see that
your words are making a person sad, for example, and so you temper your response. But online,
(22:57):
it's easy to become indifferent to such response. So we become more callous, less sensitive and more
likely to further fan the flames.Again, a number of our guests talk about this need for
self-reflection over our own actions. Let's remind ourselves here of what Amanda Ripley shared with
us in episode 20 (23:17):
(Amanda Ripley) Yeah, I think it's important for me to first acknowledge that
we all can be conflict entrepreneurs. And this is actually one of the things that Gary reached out
to me when the book first came out and he heard me on the radio and he was like, yeah, just be
careful with that because you might create a whole new us versus them. And so I do try to remind
myself that every day I just wake up and try not to be a conflict entrepreneur because especially
(23:43):
on social media, but even just around the office or in your neighborhood, it is easy to do that.
It's a way to bond with people by complaining or blaming someone else. (Duane) And I really loved
the stories that Gary Friedman shared with us in episode 22 about his own journey. Here was one of
the world s leading mediator trainers explaining how he slipped up. He s sharing the story of his
engagement with local governance in his own small locality let s listen in (24:11):
(Gary Friedman) We had
problems in the community. People said, we need somebody to run the meetings. I said, I know how
to run meetings where there's conflict and they said great. So they elected me in a landslide.
And then this was to the local, just our local, 250 houses right on the ocean in California.
(24:36):
And my idea was, let's get the whole community involved. And so all the people that voted for me
come to the meetings. It's your community. And of course, one of the great surprises, two surprises
neither of them should have been. One was they didn't come because they thought they'd elected
me. I would do that. And secondly, the people that were against me, they came to every meeting and
(25:01):
they just started taking potshots at me right off the bat. Well, as a mediator, I was used
to really heavy conflicts. Horrible things would happen in the room, but it was never aimed at me,
and this was aimed at me. And as the me, what came back into my life was the old trial lawyer. I knew
(25:22):
how to defend and attack, and before I knew it, I was off and running. And everything I believed in
about how people should be with each other, I was contradicting from moment to moment. And it was
terrible experience because I was defensive. And I wouldn't say drunk with power, but kind
(25:43):
of I loved the idea of having power. I kind of hadn't had it. As a mediator. I give it away,
so I'm happy. But this was kind of intoxicating. We can make real change. And of course, that was
seeds of destruction right there and created a WE / THEM relationship between me and the people that
were against me. And so I went through a really horrible period where my wife said to me she'd
(26:08):
come to the meetings with the dog and then leave after a while. And at one point she said to me,
'you know, I don't even recognize you. This is not the person that I've been with for the last 40
some OD years. This is some old version of you.' And so I really took that to heart because I knew
(26:28):
that she was right and she always is right. And so I went through a period of deep soul
searching. (Duane) So if this can happen to Gary Friedman, one of the world s leading experts in
this arena and a really, really nice guy I mean, if it can happen to Gary, it can happen to us too,
(26:51):
right. So this speaks to Baha'u'llah's admonishment that we be guarded in our speech.
Baha'u'llah refers to human utterance as an essence which aspireth to exert its influence and needeth
moderation , and He enjoins His followers to speak with words as mild as milk in a manner
(27:14):
consistent with our station of true understanding and nobility. So this is painting a picture,
right. Of us being highly aware and conscious of the potential impact of our expression of aspiring
for nobility in our manner of expression. And the Universal House of Justice, I think,
gives us this incredibly sharp focus with these words: We return to the phenomenal (27:37):
undefined
characteristics of speech. Content, volume, style, tact, wisdom, timeliness are among the critical
(28:00):
factors in determining the effects of speech for good or evil. Consequently, the friends need
ever to be conscious of the significance of this activity which so distinguishes human beings from
other forms of life, and they must exercise it judiciously. Their efforts at such discipline will
(28:24):
give birth to an etiquette of expression worthy of the approaching maturity of the human race.
It is precisely this etiquette of expression which we so desperately need at this critical
juncture. Content, volume, style, tact, wisdom and timeliness. But until this etiquette evolves,
(28:58):
we can at least aspire to it in our own conduct. So we've talked about both the
information we ingest and our expression and I know that this can be nuanced and complicated at
(29:21):
times. At the end of the day, it s a skill. And fortunately, this is something we CAN
train for. As I shared in episode 21, Dr. Peter Coleman has developed a course a challenge only
requiring a few minutes of your time over a 21 day period designed to help sensitize us to our
(29:42):
own threats to polarization and I ve included a link is this episode s description. Or, as Gary
Friedman explained in episode 22, you can complete his 40 hour course at UnderstandingInConflict.org.
And in due course, I'm sure there will be a Bahá’í institute courses you'll be able to join. But
(30:05):
I wanted to remind you of the very precious gift we have to help us navigate through this terrain
a gift that is here and now that will help you TODAY- immediately. And here, of course,
I'm talking about the example of Abdul-Baha. In fact, that s our short hand. Any time we re
(30:31):
not certain either in terms of the content we re exposed to or our own expression the test is super
simple. Just imagine that Abdul-Baha is there with you. And if you're OK with what you re hearing,
reading, writing or saying then sally forth. You're good. But if you re embarrassed then something
(30:55):
is probably not quite right and you should adjust accordingly. This is a powerful tool
which gives us immediate access to the voice of our conscious which, more than anything, can help
us navigate the challenges of our times.So this is your emergency plan. When in doubt, visualize
(31:19):
Abdul-Baha in your presence and that will help you weigh your words. (musical interlude)
Now we've run out of time for today and we only got through the first of our five key
themes connecting what we've learned from the science of depolarization together with
(31:43):
Bahá’í principles. So we have four themes to go which will probably take us a couple of episodes
to cover. But it s exciting stuff, right!So thanks again for joining the conversation
for social transformation. I look forward to continuing our exploration of Bahá’í approaches
to depolarization That's next time on Society Builders. (music starts). Society Builders pave the way. To a
(32:14):
better world to a better day. A united approach to building a new society. There s a crisis facing
humanity. People suffer from a lack of unityIt s time for a bet-ter p-ath to a new society. Join
our conversation for social transformation Society Builders. So engage with your local
(32:53):
communities and explore all the exciting possibilities. We can elevate the atmosphere
in which we move. The paradigm is shifting. It is so very uplifting. It s a new beat, a new song,
a brand new groove. Join our conversation for social transformation. Society Builders
(33:32):
The Bahá’í Faith has a lot to say helping people to discover a better way. With discourse and
social action framed by unity. Now the time has come to lift our game And apply
the teachings of the Greatest Name. And rise to meet the glory of our destiny. Join our
(33:52):
conversation for social transformation. Society Builders
Society Builders pave the way To a better world, to a better day. A united approach to building
a new society. Join the conversation for social transformation - Society Builders. Society Builders
(00:23):
with your host Duane Varan. (Duane) Welcome to another exciting episode of Society Builders and
thanks for joining the conversation for social transformation. Now allow me to start today's
episode with a bit of a bird's eye view of where our journey together has been navigating us to
(00:43):
over the past year or so. In episodes 18 and 19, we began exploring one of the fundamental pillars
of society building engaging with the prevalent discourses of society. We explored what this means
particularly from a Baha i perspective and we discussed strategies for effectively engaging with
(01:04):
such discourse. Now I then wanted to take us on a journey exploring a SPECIFIC discourse and here,
of course, I focused on the contemporary issues associated with the rampant polarization that
is currently plaguing the world. I did this so we could explore what discourse looks like how
we engage with a new discourse. Now, I could have focused on any number of discourse themes:
(01:30):
the environment, race unity, the empowerment of women I mean these are all great examples of
discourses that Baha'is would normally engage with. And in due course, we ll explore all of
these and more. But I chose the polarization focus here specifically for a number of reasons (01:41):
First,
it was something I knew absolutely nothing about. In fact, I remember being blown away when I read
reference to the need for us to bring antagonistic people closer together thinking, how on earth do
(02:04):
you do that? And that was exactly what I wanted a challenge I knew nothing about - so that we
could together go through the process of engaging with a new discourse from scratch. An authentic
journey similar to the ones you will face when you encounter new discourse themes. Second, it had an urgency to it that was reflected repeatedly in guidance from the Universal House of Justice who
(02:32):
describe the world's situation today as polarized and paralyzed , with prejudices polarizing
societies at a time when unity is more vital to resolving local, national and global challenges ;
calling on us to resist the pull of controversial and polarizing debates. And this guidance is a
(02:56):
reflection on the extent to which polarization has emerged as one of the dominant issues of
our day all over the world. So the gravity of this particular theme seemed particularly urgent. This
is front and center with Baha'u'llah advice that we engage with the needs of the age in which ye
(03:17):
live in and polarization clearly meets that test. It responds to one of the most critical needs of
THIS age. Third, polarization intersects at the very heart of the mission of Baha'u'llah. I mean,
bringing antagonistic groups together this is EXACTLY what we re about. It s the ultimate
(03:40):
expression of the unifying power of the Faith. Fourth, it s foundational. And what I mean by this
is that learning how to address polarization is a skill that helps us in just about any other
discourse we engage with because almost all modern discourse will require this capacity for us to
(04:03):
help bring people together. So gaining new skills and insights around depolarization helps lay a
foundation for our capacity to engage effectively with other discourse themes. And finally, I felt
it was an arena that had great opportunity for engaging and collaborating with others and with
(04:26):
like-minded organizations. And here, specifically, this view was shaped by reading the work of Nealin
Parker who features in episode 27 who, together with her research team at Princeton University,
has identified over 6,700 organizations in the US alone working to find paths to depolarization.
(04:48):
So this was the underlying rationale for the polarization focus. And what we ve been
doing from episodes 20 onwards has been getting ourselves up to speed on the scientific knowledge
that exists in the existing discourse. This is where we should always start - by reading society
(05:10):
listening and coming to terms with the existing discourse. And here, we ve been incredibly
fortunate to learn directly from the leading luminaries in the world in this discourse.
And so today and over the next few episodes, we re going to try to bring some synthesis to what we've
(05:30):
been learning from these amazing individuals and from their research and experience. And in that
context, we re going to try to explore how this relates to Bahá’í perspectives and how we might
bring new contributions to the discourse at present. Now that s an incredibly tall order
(05:51):
well beyond my capacity, for sure. So we won t get it perfectly right and it won t be comprehensive.
But we can at least scratch the surface here and explore some possibilities to at least
demonstrate the potential of such an approach. So today, we start exploring Bahá’í perspectives
towards depolarization. (musical interlude)Now once again, I need to offer a bit of a disclaimer
(06:25):
here to remind you that I speak with no authority here. This podcast is a personal initiative it
does not necessarily reflect the views of any Bahá’í agency. So you should weigh the ideas
here for yourselves. Again, my voice is no more important than your voice so explore at your own
risk (laughs). And an added caution. It s far too premature to argue that anything could be a
(06:51):
true Bahá’í perspective on depolarization. In the same way that we don t really yet have something
akin to Bahá’í art or Bahá’í music or even Baha'i education, for that matter - we definitely
don t have a distinctive approach to this issue of polarization. So I use the term Bahá’í perspective
here in a very broad sense and not in any kind of official sense. It s more that we re exploring
(07:17):
Bahá’í -INSPIRED approaches to depolarization. And one final disclaimer we explore this theme
of depolarization with a focus on what WE can do and not on what we might expect others to do. In
other words, we re not talking about social policy or workplace law or anything macro. We re talking
(07:40):
about the things we can do in our own lives in our interaction with those in our orb what we
can do directly to help remedy polarization by integrating Bahá’í -inspired approaches. OK so
with those clarifications, let s embark upon our little journey here. (musical interlude). Now,
(08:10):
rather than go through a linear review each of our recent episodes, I thought I d weave across
the interviews to pull out some key themes and explore how Bahá’í approaches might contribute to
these strands of the depolarization discourse. Our approach won t be comprehensive it ll be
illustrative. In other words, I won t cover everything we've learned but I'll pull out a
(08:34):
few key insights to explore how we might integrate Bahá’í -inspired perspectives. And specifically,
we re going to explore just FIVE of the key principles that have emerged across these
interviews. These are five of the most important principles that grow out of the research on the
science of depolarization. And for each of these, we re going to explore how Bahá’í
(08:56):
perspectives might contribute to advancing the discourse further. And so over the next few
episodes we re going to explore these five themes including: * Forces that act as an
accelerant to polarization and what we can do to help prevent that influence in our own lives and
(09:16):
how to safeguard against ourselves adding fuel to the fire. * How polarization dehumanizes
the other and what we can do to help rehumanize the equation. * How we can enhance our capacity
to listen and understand, which are critical to effective depolarization. * How we can help
(09:40):
break binaries narratives that reduce problems to conflict between two opposing forces. * How we
can enhance the environments under which contact between antagonistic groups are facilitated.
Now again, this doesn t cover everything we've learned. But I think it s good ground for
(10:01):
us to cover which will help illustrate how Bahá’í perspectives can contribute to this discourse. So
that s our game plan. And obviously, that s too much for us to cover in a single episode, so we ll
cover this ground across a few episodes. So let's dig in. (musical interlude). Now polarization
(10:29):
is a social pollutant. Just like there might be toxic particles in the air we breathe,
if we live in society if we interact with society we re going to contract this toxic polarization
in our everyday lives. It doesn't matter that we don t approve of it, that it s not compatible with
(10:50):
our beliefs if we live in society we re going to breathe in toxic polarization every day.
So we can't stop it BUT we can certainly limit its influence. But this requires that we become
more aware better sensitized to it. And this requires active reflection reflection on what we
(11:16):
breathe in what we inhale - but also reflection on what we exhale on our actions. Because as we
become contaminated, we can also accelerate and add fuel to the polarization disease,
despite our best intentions. So we start our discussion on strategies to depolarize with a
(11:38):
focus on - ourselves. This is not about what others should or shouldn t do it s about you
it s about me and what WE can do to both limit the toxically polarized pollutants coming in
but also to regulate our own behavior so we don t further contribute to the problem. Now our guests
(12:04):
on these podcasts have been really helpful in helping us understand this dynamic. I think the
most common space where most of us interact with this kind of toxic polarization is in our social
media spheres. Now in episode 26, Dr. Lisa Schrich did an amazing job in helping us understand how
(12:25):
polarization in social media is not coincidental it s not an accident. It s the by-product of very
deliberate strategies designed to maximize profit for the social media platforms and
a function of the work of chaos actors often from foreign adversaries actively working to undermine
(12:49):
social structures by cultivating divisions.So remember, other things being equal, if you have a
credible social media post and a highly polarized version of the same post, the algorithms on these
social media platforms will favor the polarized and further propagate these over the credible.
(13:11):
So the system is rigged to polarize. Now there are larger conversations to be had about social
policy around all of this. But for now, I d like us to focus on what this means for us in our own
daily lives. Now let s pause here for a second. Just for a moment, I d like you to think about
(13:35):
the dramatic social transformation that has played out over the past two decades or so where we have
become so much more aware of our food diets. Today, when you go to a fast food restaurant
and order a burger and fries, you are keenly aware of how many calories there are in what you order.
Maybe that encourages you to order small fries instead of large ones. And when you re at the
(13:59):
supermarket buying your groceries, you pick up a can and look to see what it s ingredients are. And
maybe you pick the item that has less trans-fat, for example. So we've become a lot more conscious
and discerning and aware of what we eat.We still eat bad things, right. But we're just a lot more
(14:21):
aware of what we're eating and sometimes not always but sometimes - we regulate our behavior
armed with that knowledge. Now our social media consumption is a lot like our food diet it s
our media diet. And just like we ve become more aware of our calorie intake and the ingredients
(14:42):
we ingest we also need to become more aware of the polarized content we consume. And continuing
on with the interview with Dr. Schrich, I think what she really helped us understand here is that
what these corporations and what these foreign chaos actors are preying on is what she called
(15:02):
our reptile brain (laughs). I loved this part of the interview. In fact, let me remind you of
that part of the episode: (Dr. Lisa Schrich) So really, neuroscience is behind a lot of conflict (15:10):
undefined
behavior. When human beings can sit down calmly and breathing regularly, we can solve problems
together. We can disagree about issues, but we can maintain a sense of human dignity, relationship
(15:32):
with others. And we have our prefrontal cortex. I'm pointing to my forehead right now. We have
this amazing brain, as humans, that can link up with other people's brains and figure out creative
solutions to problems. And really, that's what conflict resolution, conflict transformation
building, that's what that's all about, is trying to create a setting, a condition where people can
(15:59):
be their best selves and work with other people to find creative solutions to problems. So,
as a mediator, for example, I'm used to sitting in a room with people who are very angry with each
other, disagreeing something. And it's my job as a mediator to lead them through a process of moving
from the reptile part of their brain in the back bottom of the brain stem, and trying to sort of
(16:26):
create enough safety in the room that they can come up to their forehead, where their thinking
brain is, where they can actually solve problems together. And so even before all this, social
media, I think neuroscience really underlies a lot of the process of conflict transformation,
moving from just an emotional response to be able to think and be mindful of our ability
(16:51):
to solve problems together.So I think when you think about neuroscience and social media,
there's a few things happening. It's showing us the emotional content which keeps us at that
brainstem. My colleagues at the Center for Humane Technology call it the race to the bottom of the
brain stem on social media. So it's this race to show us the most outrageous emotional content
(17:14):
to keep us engaged at an emotional level. (Duane) Now I love this way of framing the
problem. Polarization feeds the reptile portion of our brain it's this race to the bottom of our
brainstem. And that, in turn, is addictive. And our challenge, neurophysiologically, is to instead
(17:39):
feed the more human, the rational dimensions of our brain. Now in Bahá’í terminology, this is
what we call the struggle between our lower and higher natures, between our animal self and our
divine self between our material and spiritual self. Abdul-Baha describes how this lower self
(18:00):
is captive to nature and how our higher self transcends this all. And the whole beauty of the
human story is that we are creatures endowed with free will so we decide which version of ourselves
to empower. This reminds me of that story that I know you ve all heard it s the story of a Cherokee
(18:23):
chief explaining to his grandson that there are two wolves in all of us one evil and dark and one
noble and good. The grandson then asks, which wolf wins? To which the grandfather replies it s the
one you feed. The one you feed. And this is where our reflection and vigilance becomes so important.
(18:51):
In understanding which self we re feeding with our media diets. Now this isn t limited to
social media. The same kind of communication diet is also true in our interpersonal interactions
with others. When you re angry with someone and want to vent who do you turn to? You could turn
(19:12):
to the friend you have who will likely get you to pause reflect calm down get you questioning
whether you really need to be so angry. OR you can turn to the friend who you know will agree with
your anger reinforce it make you feel justified feed your anger. So which friend do you turn
(19:35):
to? And if we re being honest here there s a good probability that we'll turn to that second friend
because it FEELS good. It vindicates our anger it justifies it. It makes us feel right to be angry.
But while it feels good but it is probably not the most productive response. And this is what both
(19:59):
Amanda Ripley in episode 20 and Dr. Peter Coleman in episode 21 - this is what they were describing
in our attraction to conflict entrepreneurs people who are really good at feeding and
inflaming our anger at weaving polarized reaction at reinforcing our sense of being victimized.
(20:22):
You're looking for someone to reinforce your sense of anger and they re there to gratify.
Now in this context this often FEELS good. But, again, that doesn't mean it's productive. In fact,
it's probably making the situation worse.So just as we need to be discerning in our social media
(20:45):
encounters we also have to be discerning in who we confide in in who we turn to in our moments where
our emotions flair up. And, of course, we need to be on double duty on these occasions not to allow
this all to deteriorate into an opportunity for backbiting. Enough said, right. OK so whether we
(21:06):
re talking about social media or interpersonal interaction we need to be vigilant so that we're
minimizing our contact with forces that will feed and enflame polarization. We need to feed our
higher nature to rise and transcend above this all so we are less a creature of our rampant emotions
(21:30):
and we can better channel our divine selves. (musical interlude). And there s another side to
this equation and that s that we also need to be on guard lest we become an agent of polarization
(21:50):
ourselves despite our best intent.You read a social media post. It angers you.
Your emotions get triggered and you immediately post a reply that you later realize has only
further enflamed the problem. It's critical that at those moments we pause and wait before
(22:14):
posting a reply so that our emotions can settle down a bit. And that we then bring the voice of
wisdom and not just the voice of our emotion to our response, if a response is even merited.
And as we discussed in our interview with Dr. Schrich, it s much easier to have this kind of
(22:35):
uncalibrated response online than it is in person because when you say something to someone in
person, you see their reaction to your words and that reaction is often disarming. You see that
your words are making a person sad, for example, and so you temper your response. But online,
(22:57):
it's easy to become indifferent to such response. So we become more callous, less sensitive and more
likely to further fan the flames.Again, a number of our guests talk about this need for
self-reflection over our own actions. Let's remind ourselves here of what Amanda Ripley shared with
us in episode 20 (23:17):
(Amanda Ripley) Yeah, I think it's important for me to first acknowledge that
we all can be conflict entrepreneurs. And this is actually one of the things that Gary reached out
to me when the book first came out and he heard me on the radio and he was like, yeah, just be
careful with that because you might create a whole new us versus them. And so I do try to remind
myself that every day I just wake up and try not to be a conflict entrepreneur because especially
(23:43):
on social media, but even just around the office or in your neighborhood, it is easy to do that.
It's a way to bond with people by complaining or blaming someone else. (Duane) And I really loved
the stories that Gary Friedman shared with us in episode 22 about his own journey. Here was one of
the world s leading mediator trainers explaining how he slipped up. He s sharing the story of his
engagement with local governance in his own small locality let s listen in (24:11):
(Gary Friedman) We had
problems in the community. People said, we need somebody to run the meetings. I said, I know how
to run meetings where there's conflict and they said great. So they elected me in a landslide.
And then this was to the local, just our local, 250 houses right on the ocean in California.
(24:36):
And my idea was, let's get the whole community involved. And so all the people that voted for me
come to the meetings. It's your community. And of course, one of the great surprises, two surprises
neither of them should have been. One was they didn't come because they thought they'd elected
me. I would do that. And secondly, the people that were against me, they came to every meeting and
(25:01):
they just started taking potshots at me right off the bat. Well, as a mediator, I was used
to really heavy conflicts. Horrible things would happen in the room, but it was never aimed at me,
and this was aimed at me. And as the me, what came back into my life was the old trial lawyer. I knew
(25:22):
how to defend and attack, and before I knew it, I was off and running. And everything I believed in
about how people should be with each other, I was contradicting from moment to moment. And it was
terrible experience because I was defensive. And I wouldn't say drunk with power, but kind
(25:43):
of I loved the idea of having power. I kind of hadn't had it. As a mediator. I give it away,
so I'm happy. But this was kind of intoxicating. We can make real change. And of course, that was
seeds of destruction right there and created a WE / THEM relationship between me and the people that
were against me. And so I went through a really horrible period where my wife said to me she'd
(26:08):
come to the meetings with the dog and then leave after a while. And at one point she said to me,
'you know, I don't even recognize you. This is not the person that I've been with for the last 40
some OD years. This is some old version of you.' And so I really took that to heart because I knew
(26:28):
that she was right and she always is right. And so I went through a period of deep soul
searching. (Duane) So if this can happen to Gary Friedman, one of the world s leading experts in
this arena and a really, really nice guy I mean, if it can happen to Gary, it can happen to us too,
(26:51):
right. So this speaks to Baha'u'llah's admonishment that we be guarded in our speech.
Baha'u'llah refers to human utterance as an essence which aspireth to exert its influence and needeth
moderation , and He enjoins His followers to speak with words as mild as milk in a manner
(27:14):
consistent with our station of true understanding and nobility. So this is painting a picture,
right. Of us being highly aware and conscious of the potential impact of our expression of aspiring
for nobility in our manner of expression. And the Universal House of Justice, I think,
gives us this incredibly sharp focus with these words: We return to the phenomenal (27:37):
undefined
characteristics of speech. Content, volume, style, tact, wisdom, timeliness are among the critical
(28:00):
factors in determining the effects of speech for good or evil. Consequently, the friends need
ever to be conscious of the significance of this activity which so distinguishes human beings from
other forms of life, and they must exercise it judiciously. Their efforts at such discipline will
(28:24):
give birth to an etiquette of expression worthy of the approaching maturity of the human race.
It is precisely this etiquette of expression which we so desperately need at this critical
juncture. Content, volume, style, tact, wisdom and timeliness. But until this etiquette evolves,
(28:58):
we can at least aspire to it in our own conduct. So we've talked about both the
information we ingest and our expression and I know that this can be nuanced and complicated at
(29:21):
times. At the end of the day, it s a skill. And fortunately, this is something we CAN
train for. As I shared in episode 21, Dr. Peter Coleman has developed a course a challenge only
requiring a few minutes of your time over a 21 day period designed to help sensitize us to our
(29:42):
own threats to polarization and I ve included a link is this episode s description. Or, as Gary
Friedman explained in episode 22, you can complete his 40 hour course at UnderstandingInConflict.org.
And in due course, I'm sure there will be a Bahá’í institute courses you'll be able to join. But
(30:05):
I wanted to remind you of the very precious gift we have to help us navigate through this terrain
a gift that is here and now that will help you TODAY- immediately. And here, of course,
I'm talking about the example of Abdul-Baha. In fact, that s our short hand. Any time we re
(30:31):
not certain either in terms of the content we re exposed to or our own expression the test is super
simple. Just imagine that Abdul-Baha is there with you. And if you're OK with what you re hearing,
reading, writing or saying then sally forth. You're good. But if you re embarrassed then something
(30:55):
is probably not quite right and you should adjust accordingly. This is a powerful tool
which gives us immediate access to the voice of our conscious which, more than anything, can help
us navigate the challenges of our times.So this is your emergency plan. When in doubt, visualize
(31:19):
Abdul-Baha in your presence and that will help you weigh your words. (musical interlude)
Now we've run out of time for today and we only got through the first of our five key
themes connecting what we've learned from the science of depolarization together with
(31:43):
Bahá’í principles. So we have four themes to go which will probably take us a couple of episodes
to cover. But it s exciting stuff, right!So thanks again for joining the conversation
for social transformation. I look forward to continuing our exploration of Bahá’í approaches
to depolarization That's next time on Society Builders. (music starts). Society Builders pave the way. To a
(32:14):
better world to a better day. A united approach to building a new society. There s a crisis facing
humanity. People suffer from a lack of unityIt s time for a bet-ter p-ath to a new society. Join
our conversation for social transformation Society Builders. So engage with your local
(32:53):
communities and explore all the exciting possibilities. We can elevate the atmosphere
in which we move. The paradigm is shifting. It is so very uplifting. It s a new beat, a new song,
a brand new groove. Join our conversation for social transformation. Society Builders
(33:32):
The Bahá’í Faith has a lot to say helping people to discover a better way. With discourse and
social action framed by unity. Now the time has come to lift our game And apply
the teachings of the Greatest Name. And rise to meet the glory of our destiny. Join our
(33:52):
conversation for social transformation. Society Builders
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!