August 25, 2023 • 48 mins
Join us in welcoming Richard Lightfoot for his first appearance on the show! Rich leads the sales and business strategy development of OpenText Global Product Authentication Service, or GPAS, in the Americas and is responsible for channel partner and new market opportunities.
Dori and Rich have a great discussion around the applicability and importance of GPAS within the life sciences industry. GPAS is based on unit level serialization of finished goods and helps brands protect their products and secure their supply chains through the delivery of innovative analytics and business intelligence - all while creating a new marketing channel in which to engage their customers.
Connect with Richard on LinkedIn here and learn more about GPAS here.
*Disclaimer: Podcast guest participated in the podcast as an individual subject matter expert and contributor. The views and opinions they share are not necessarily shared by their employer. Nor should any reference to specific products or services be interpreted as commercial endorsements by their current employer.
This is a production of ProcellaRX
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo (00:00):
Well, welcome to another episode of
(00:02):
software quality. Today, I'mwith rich Lightfoot from open
text today, I'm super excited byhaving this conversation into a
topic that I found fascinating.
And I thought it was definitelysomething that I needed to bring
to everyone's intention. Sowelcome rich to the show.
Richard Lightfoot (00:19):
Thanks, Tori.
Glad to glad to be here.
Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo (00:22):
So I would love for you to take a
moment and kind of give thefolks a more in depth
understanding of who you are. Iknow we did a quick intro of you
in the bumper, but I wanted tohear let you kind of describe
how you came to be in the roleof the GPS owner, you're like
the architect of GPS, right? Forthe most part, you kind of
(00:44):
started off the group.
Richard Lightfoot (00:46):
Ah, well, I joined the group in 2016, when
we were part of H P E. G passactually dates back to our
Twitch creation by HewlettPackard or HP. And I joined to
be the Americas lead forcheapass from a strategy
(01:08):
perspective, from a businessdevelopment perspective, working
with channel partners, like forseller RX, like other partners,
and also direct customers on aglobal scale, based here in the
US.
Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo (01:25):
Awesome.
So what what were you doingbefore
Richard Lightfoot (01:30):
my career dates back to digital printing
actually, prior to coming onboard in the in the software
world. So I was involved inprinting here in the Washington
area, from a digital perspectivefrom anything you can imagine
(01:51):
marketing, collateral magazines,for associations, and what I
found is that industry, mainlythe print industry was becoming
very plateaued, very mature. Sowhat would CI pass, we actually
end up as a printed code onproducts in a variety of
(02:14):
different fashion. So I startedsort of made the connection and
pivoted into the security field,initially with with cheapass,
back in 2016. So that's, it'skind of a it's sort of almost
two careers, but they areconnected through through a
print aspect, but I'm reallyenjoying joining the software
(02:34):
side of it, and how it'sgrowing.
Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo (02:38):
So can you tell us all what GPS stands
for him? What is it mean? And soI think that's very interesting
history here.
Richard Lightfoot (02:47):
cheapass stands for Global Product
authentication service. And Imentioned it was designed and
built by Hewlett Packard, backin 2009, they had a serious, two
serious problems. One wascounterfeiting, where fake HP
products were entering themarket, and the other one was
(03:10):
gray market diversion. Diversionis a real product. But it's
meant to go down one channel,one distribution channel. And
what we find is distributorswill take that product and
divert it to another marketgenerally for profit reasons.
(03:30):
But what this does is erodetrust in the channel market, and
affects the market where thoseproducts are being diverted. So
counterfeit products, thatillicit behavior, and this
diversion of products or graymarket diversion. So, so HP went
out on the market in 2009, tolook for a solution to apply to
(03:53):
their situation and couldn'tfind it. So they ended up
building it internally. wildlysuccessful. In fact, in 2013,
they conducted a raid in SaudiArabia, based on the analytics
that cheapass was providing. Andwhat they found is a warehouse
(04:15):
with a total of about $70million of HP products,
counterfeit products, and it wasinitially set up for the ink and
toner market. But what theyfound in that warehouse was a
variety of HP products that werecounterfeit, so hugely
successful in that endeavor. Andwhat they realized is that
(04:38):
they're not the only brand thatwas suffering from these sorts
of illicit activities. Socheapass wasn't named to pass at
the time, but received thatname, and became a standalone
service that HP started offeringacross the globe. And that's
really how it got started andhow it grew and then through
(05:00):
software companies mergers andacquisitions as that occurs, we
went to HPE. That's when Ijoined in 2016 as the Americas
lead, as I mentioned, and thenin 2017, we became part of
microfocus. And recently 2023,we are part of open text, as you
know, and where we fit in andopen Texas is going to be very
(05:22):
interesting. Because they have adivision, the healthy division
called Business Network cloud,primarily focusing on the
internet of things. And if youthink about it, as we get into
cheapass, we are an internet ofthings. But we happen to be the
internet of packaging ofproducts, giving a digital life
(05:44):
to any product for any brandthat is out on the open market.
So it's a it's a good fit,coming into open Tex.
Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo (05:54):
Yeah, what I found interesting, and as
I've been a partner and a userof a lot of HP and microfocus
products over the years, thiswas kind of like this sleeping
giant that I stumbled upon asPersol. X came as to be a full
partner with open text, and Iwas really interested in it,
because there I see there's somany applications within life
(06:17):
sciences that have been perhapsnot necessarily looked at, or
thought of how to integrateintegrate all these tools
together. And why as a platformitself is an integral part of a
business strategy that should beconsidered. So can you tell me a
little bit more about some ofthe use cases that you have
(06:39):
identified within the lifesciences?
Richard Lightfoot (06:42):
Yeah, life sciences is a is a strong market
for for cheapass. And if we lookat some of those use cases, for
example, over the counternutraceutical products, is a big
space for us, a lot of thoseproducts suffer from the same
(07:04):
problems, like the consumerproduct goods that HP was
offering in other brands likethat, that illicit behavior, a
lot of those get knocked off getdiverted. So number one, brand
protection is a big use casewithin within life sciences. And
the other is just anunderstanding of product
(07:25):
movement and traceability. A lotof Life Science products are
consumed by you and I andpeople. So having the ability to
secure your supply chain andknow what's going on in your
supply chain, the movement ofproducts, and being able to
(07:46):
convey that from a trustperspective to consumers that
are ingesting those, in thiscase, nutraceuticals. Is is key.
So having an understanding ofwhere it's moving securely, and
I'll give you an example of thatwe had a customer in New
Zealand, that was in the infantcare, business and still are.
(08:11):
But they produced their formulain very large containers that
went out to supply partners thatwas then mixed down co packed
into units for sale in China andother countries. And what there
was a scare in China, whereseveral children unfortunately
(08:33):
died as a result of taintedinfant formula. And as it turned
out, it wasn't as a result ofthis particular company. But
they couldn't guarantee thatbecause they had a lack of
visibility of their supplychain. So understanding the
chain of custody from onelocation to the next, being able
(08:55):
to show that document it showthe folks involved show what
specific individual products,what bulk products in that case,
were moved, received, andultimately, can be accounted for
down to the individual productlevel. So that's a key use case
(09:16):
in life science sciences. Andwe're seeing that more and more,
because one has been demandedfrom the consumer side. And
obviously, it's in the case ofthat organization. There were
government pressures to have itas well. So both sides are
forcing that company to takeaction.
Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo (09:35):
Yeah, so there's an infant formula.
There's, especially in China,there's a lot of laws and
regulations around how thoseneed to be tracked and traced.
It's an ideal use case forsomething like G pass. But to
your point, the what I see inthe complexity of our supply
chain today, particularly onLife Sciences is getting so much
(09:58):
so many more pieces. is in it'spart of the puzzle, right? And
how to really how to reallynavigate all that in one
cohesive way, is very difficult,right? So the company that
actually markets and producesthe end thing might have 234 100
(10:19):
pieces of the supply chain that,that go into that right? And
then how to that that web, ifyou will, of, of complexity
requires sophisticatedtechnology in order to make
meaning of all of that. And so Ithink that's a enormous added
value.
Richard Lightfoot (10:39):
Yeah, I mean, at the core of cheapass, there
were two mandates by the CEO ofHP at the time when it was
created. One, it had to be costeffective. We're seeing that
play out in the blockchainworld. Because initial instances
(11:01):
of that have not been costeffective. And you're seeing
people like IBM, IBM, saying,Hey, we're not just going to
throw money at this, we'regetting out of the blockchain
business. So the over art, thearchitecture has to be cost
effective. It also has to beunobtrusive to systems in place
(11:22):
at all those multiple locationsthat you're talking about,
coexist with, being able tointegrate with systems that are
in play equipment that's inplay. So it can be introduced
quickly and efficiently. Andagain, back to the cost and cost
effectively. And that sort of isat the heart of GE paths from
(11:44):
day one. And we have plenty ofcustomers that have obviously
don't own the whole supply chainas you as you mentioned. So they
still they have contractors,they have contract
manufacturing, they havecontract distributors, those
distributors, it for them to bewilling to participate, because
(12:10):
some brands have the clout tosay you will participate or you
won't be my partner, but a lotdon't. So there's got to be an
ease of entry for that level tobe able to come in and be a part
of the of the solution. Andthat's where I think cheapass
fits really well. Because weplay well, with those systems,
(12:33):
we integrate easily with thosesystems. We also, if there isn't
a system have a standalone userinterface. So cheapass can be
the whole thing from A to B to Cto D to E to the consumer, or
there can be levels in therehave, or systems in there that
are already in place that we canintegrate with and pick up data
(12:56):
because it's all about datacoming back at the moment,
Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo (13:00):
right?
It's and then uniformity of thatdata when you bring it in. So
can you speak a little bit tothat, because one of the the
primary use cases, is thetraceability in terms of also
then recall that that is anextension of that when things go
wrong, right within lifesciences. And so how does that
kind of play intofolks using so I was recently at
(13:24):
a conference when the wholenotion of recall came up. And
and still to this day, there isa paper process in place in most
organizations in order to sendphysical letters and to to
establish folks that were onrecord at a point in time in
order to get that informationback in terms of recall. Right.
(13:46):
And it was kind of startled methat, that even today in 2023,
there's still such a manualprocess around the recall
mechanism. And so can how canDupas help in this sort of way?
Richard Lightfoot (14:03):
Yeah, well, there are a lot of different
systems in that come into playwith recalls you just mentioned.
But I think two things that Gpasque can do very well is
number one, identify what needsto be recalled. And so how do we
do that? So every product gets aunique identity, a code on every
(14:29):
single product and and we'recode agnostic, but going back to
that cost effective andunobtrusive will tend to be a QR
code on a product. And when Isay a QR code, I mean a
different QR code on everysingle product and a QR code.
Think of it like a sponge. Ithas the ability to accept
(14:53):
information. So that QR code ona production line that's running
at a particular moment connectsets, expiry date, batch number,
product lot number, anyattribute that you want to
attach to it that is stuck withthat particular code on that
particular product, when it whenit leaves the manufacturing
(15:14):
plant. So it's a known entity ofwhen it was produced, what batch
it was a part of. And then wecan write business rules around
that. So if a batch isidentified as bad, or several
batches, we can understand wherethose batches, what is involved,
how many products, what specificproducts where they have been
(15:36):
transported. And I think you'llstill have some mechanisms of
their of communicating withwhere they've been distributed.
But having that knowledgeupfront, is absolutely critical.
And then, because we've donethis legwork up front, added
this information to theindividual QR codes on
(15:56):
individual products, we canengage with consumers to update
that information upon scanningthat particular QR code. So that
they are aware that thisparticular product is part of a
recall. But it's it's all aboutadding to the to the knowledge
(16:16):
of of where these are, whatproducts are involved. And
that's how cheapass can reallyhelp. We take that a little bit
farther and integrate with somesome systems in some government
systems was specifically focusedon recall, mainly up in Canada
(16:37):
and debt down in Australia, weare the backbone of some systems
for specific use case of justrecall in those particular
countries, and it's part of whatthey call the Food Network
service. So yeah, I mean, that'sthe knowledge is key in this
situation, being able to knowwhat's bad and know where it is,
(16:57):
and being able to help get thatoff the shelves. But also, if it
does get into consumers hands,give the consumers have a
mechanism to to identifyexactly. If they have a good
product or not, again, thatspeaks to that sort of trust and
sources as well. And that's whatwe do. That's what we do very
(17:19):
well.
Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo (17:22):
In that sense, it's more than just the
label. Right? And I think thatthat's like at the heart. Yeah,
the heart of it is that I thinkone of the, when we came to from
a life science perspective said,you know, serialization is a
thing, we need to doserialization, like it was a
very, like, not thinking aboutthe broader sense of what that
(17:46):
really means, and how does itextend throughout the supply
chain, but more of just anactivity that needed to be done
and implemented. And so when Ithink of, and when I see G paths
in use, and what you'vedemonstrated in some of the use
case, is I take that one stepfurther in terms of the life
science kind of personalizedmedicine, way of which and
(18:09):
direct to consumers thatcompanies are now marketing and
going direct to right. So we're,we're in an age where there is
truly solutions and therapiesthat are unique to an individual
and personalized medicine andhow a system and platform like
(18:30):
GPS can help make that chainthat custody chain to that
individual as as quickly aspossible. Just is really kind of
the next extension for me, whatdo you think about some of the
other future use cases that yousee?
Richard Lightfoot (18:49):
Yeah, I mean, well, just building on the topic
of recall, we worked with amajor company here in the United
States that had that happen tothem and had to pull a lot of
products off the shelf. And thatis very costly to do that. But
(19:12):
it's also damaging to the to thebrand's reputation. So being
able to have a on the packagedigitized package communication
level between the brand and theconsumer, and regain that trust
is going to be very important asthey as they come back to market
(19:32):
which they are. And I mentionedadding attributes to QR code,
this particular company adds allthe quality steps that they go
through and checks to a productso when a consumer scans it,
it's a good product at thispoint. They're not going to get
any sort of recall type messagebut they will get a message that
(19:54):
says this product has passedthese checks you know And the
messaging that they want to giveto the consumer, but that's
going to help build thatreputation back up. So that's
obviously a use case of how thatengagement and consumer
(20:14):
engagement. I mean, that's, thatis an example of consumer
engagement. And we're seeingthat more and more.
Dori Gonzalez-Aceved (20:22):
Definitely changing, right, like we, as
consumers alike are changing. SoI, you know, I have my medical
device on my ring, right, thatis a medical device. And I would
like to know, immediately asit's connected to my app, when
and if there's a recallassociated with something that
I'm wearing on my body. Now, myring is an innocuous thing. But
(20:43):
pacemakers is really important.
Right? Put in rich plasma, fromother people really important.
Other things are much, much morecritical. And utilizing kind of
this way of which what I likewhat you're saying, is a
combination, it's not just aboutthe regulations anymore, right?
It's about combining quality bydesign from the very, very
(21:04):
start, right. And if we can dothat, and and that also then
builds the company in the brandof whatever it is, right? But
it's very intentional, from thevery start, rather than waiting
to something happens or waitingfor a change in regulation to
occur, right, it's kind of justbest business practice.
Richard Lightfoot (21:29):
Look, we want things quickly for how our
society is, is working now. Soinformation we want to, we want
it fast. Another use case, Icould give you this, as you
know, unrelated to recall tobrand protection, but is growing
a product and in a new market.
And having instant data of howyou're doing is key. So we have
(21:54):
a bit of a particular customerthat uses it for sample
management and think these aresort of over the counter type
products. But they would berecommended to you say if you
had an orthopedic operation, andyou were in the lobby, there
might be something in there.
(22:15):
That is a product you take afterthe surgery that helped maybe
your scar tissue heal orsomething of that nature. But
think of samples reps are acompany that put these engaged
with doctors, you know,50 60,000 different operations,
healthcare providers around thecountry, to put samples in their
(22:36):
lobby, talk to the doctor to getthem to recommend it in those
situations and build thatrapport. But having an
understanding of is thatworking? Is it resulting in
sales and having thatinformation come to you quickly.
So what we do is with that code,on those products, those
individual codes that go intothe lobby, the sales rep can
(22:59):
scan that code, either at anindividual level or a case
level, and assign them to ahealthcare provider, that
healthcare provider then putsthem in the lobby, we can track
the consumer engagement withthat product. And we can
understand if it absolutely, andthere's a typically an incentive
there to try it, purchase it. Wecan track it all the way through
(23:22):
to that. So that's instantinformation of how your products
in a sample management programare working or not, you'll
you'll understand if thathealthcare provider is at the
top of the charts in movement ofproducts and scans and sales or
not. And those are sort of whereyou can have those targeted
(23:45):
conversations in this scenarioof how to use a code and how to
how to help a sample program. Sothat's another use case that
we're seeing.
Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo (23:54):
Yeah, I like that. I wonder if you can
talk a little bit about some ofthe challenges you've seen. I
can imagine that data structureis probably at the top of your
list, but I was curious of whatyou think are some of the
challenges you've seen inimplementing programs when you
come into somewhere? What arewhat are some of the things that
(24:15):
companies are not thinking aboutor should be thinking about?
Richard Lightfoot (24:22):
That's that's a good question. I mean, when
when you look at GPS when youput a code on a product, if you
have to have buy in not onlywhere it's going to be directly
involved, but certainly youknow, a marketing team related
(24:43):
to the packaging. The team thatis responsible, whether it's an
internal manufacturing facilityor or not a contract
manufacturing, how are theygoing to buy into this new code
and some actions that they mayhave to take based on
requirements of putting thiscode on. Examples of that are
(25:11):
not so, so much in the lifesciences, but we have some
consumer product good customersthat contract manufacturer,
their goods, and they requirethose manufacturers to put a
code cheapass code on. And theyrequire those manufacturers in
some process to add someattributes to that, where it was
(25:33):
produced when it was producedinformation, again, that is
attached to those individual QRcodes, there are some process
changes that have to be thoughtof in the manufacturing in the
supply chain. We integrate withdistrict main distributors like
(25:53):
DHL, and FedEx to understandsort of the last leg of where
that product is going to aretail operation. Those we
would, we would require a stepin that case to identify the
products being shipped. So thereare some steps that must be
(26:15):
considered with your partners,whether they're our partners, or
whether it's an internaloperation. And then sort of
getting a broad base of buy infrom different departments
within the organization. Nowfolks in the marketing don't
like to change their theirpackaging. The nice thing about
again, we're code agnostic. Andwhat I mean by that we could be
(26:38):
taking information from RFID forNFC, but a QR code on a package.
One, they're ubiquitous,everyone knows what they do.
Because we just went through aperiod where a lot of paper
products were taken off themenu, for example, scan, and we
still aren't doing that. So sothe QR code is a known entity
(27:02):
out in the market. And it'sdoesn't you just point your
camera at it and go. And, and sothat's why it's we're seeing it
become so effective. Butmarketers historically don't
want to add things they want tohave their packaging look as as
pretty and as cool as possible.
And I get it. But that'schanging with the this
(27:24):
ubiquitous nature of the QR codeand its acceptance. And its
acceptance, because everyoneknows what to do with it. You
don't even have to tell anyone,hey, st scan here. I mean, we
have other players out in themarket that have fancier sort of
designs, and interesting sort ofmarks. A lot of those you have
to download an app to read. Oneof the things we found because
(27:48):
we had that back in the securityday to add security to a to a
code was that the drop off rateand abandonment rate of scanning
a QR code or code that requireda download of an app was was
tremendous, statistically. Andthis is sort of ironic, but 18
(28:10):
to 24 year olds have a higherrate of abandonment for
downloading apps than olderolder folks in the tune of like
85% of people of 18 to 20 yearolds will abandon the process
when asked to download an app toread a particular mark, where
it's about 78 in the 55. Andover. That's weird, strange,
(28:32):
interesting, but even 78% Youdon't want to have that
abandonment, right. Because thecode brings the data in what
product is right
Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo (28:46):
and so for the truce, yeah, right. So
the for the true story, right,if we do from the very cradle to
grave sort of scenario, right?
need folks to scan at every partof the process in order to get
the data that you need us
Richard Lightfoot (29:01):
and yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. There's got to
be
Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo (29:06):
educate me a little but that's the same
in blockchain too. I wouldthink, right. I mean, it's the
See you still need humaninteraction at some or or not
necessarily human but you needan interaction a lot
Richard Lightfoot (29:20):
to do the thing with Blockchain concepts
conceptually, yeah, it's, it'sgreat. Practically not so great.
Because it's hard to implement.
There's systems that have to bein place at every single level.
You know, this is why IBM gotout of it. They, they couldn't
(29:43):
cost justify it. They had a big,I think I think Merck was
involved there was a consortiumthat they were trying to
develop. But the ROI of puttingthose systems in at every single
space was way too expensive. Ofthe, I mean, there's a
sustainability aspects spinningup servers at every single
(30:05):
instance, the beyond theblockchain energy costs cost of
the equipment, you know, sothose sorts of things. And
that's why they got out of it.
And that's where sort of oursystem is based on cloud, a
cloud system. And I think you'llsee blockchain come around to
(30:30):
that. But, you know, IBM justgot out of it the end of 2022,
and are spinning down. So it hasto evolve because of those
reasons, hard to implement,expensive to implement. Whereas
we feel that a cloud basedsystem where it's easy to jump
in and participate is a lot moreeffective, because you're right,
(30:51):
every point has to acknowledgeand contribute to that data
stream.
Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo (30:57):
Yeah. I mean, I find the power and when
I first saw you guys demo for methe power of possibility in the
solution. And that is whatexcited me most is that the
concept of what you've developedand how you can apply it to a
(31:18):
variety of different scenarios,right? Where and that's, you
know, part of why we talk aboutthese use cases, because like,
this is a similar terminologywhen folks talks are talking
about AI and machine learningand blockchain, right, it's
these use cases like you, we canthink up a lot of different
things. Right? We're just reallygood at that as humans, right?
(31:39):
It, but we can be really superspecific with GPS. And as long
as we identify the businessprocess along the way that we're
trying to, to capture. Andthat's what your team does as
well, correct?
Richard Lightfoot (31:53):
Yeah, I mean, to that point, we've been
involved in, I think it's two orthree studies that have resulted
in I think it's higher thanwhite papers, but with a
Colorado State University, andit is about analyzing the data.
Look, what cheapass, there isthe fundamental day to day
(32:15):
operational, this product wentfrom a to b, I want to sit make
sure it got there from a trackand trace, or I pick up a
product. And I want tounderstand it, how it got here,
where did it go through? Wherewas it produced? So that's
tracking trace going out and thetraceability going back those
day to day things. But you know,what, if we and this is what
(32:37):
Colorado State University, westarted putting some
mathematical algorithms to thedata from a sort of consumer
perspective on the back endwhere the product was being
engaged and, and that sort ofanalysis is going to is going to
grow, especially with AI. Youknow, what predictive sort of
(32:59):
things that can be produced as aresult of, of artificial
intelligence, the potential forproducts to be go into the gray
market, as it understands wherethose exist. That is going to be
an exciting trend of how thestate on the back end is studied
(33:22):
and, and worked. It's going tobe very, very interesting.
Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo (33:28):
So I can also imagine, given the
technology, it doesn't matterwhere samples, for example, end
up going in the world. Right. Sothat historically has also been
a pain point for like ClinicalTrial Management and stuff like
that, right, where there is alack of Internet and other sorts
(33:51):
of issues economically, thatthat don't allow that. But but
with a GPS, I'm thinking that wecould foresee some of those
things and make sure that thoseare in place in order for the
full conductivity of the of thecycle gets back to you.
Richard Lightfoot (34:08):
Yeah, I mean, there's there's different
models, I mean, for the mostpart, it is it is going to be
internet based and whereconnectivity from an internet
perspective is available. Andthat's that that's obviously
growing tremendously. We havehad situations where it wasn't
(34:30):
available, we had to resolveback to sort of SMS technology
out in the field with somemalaria drug tests we did way
back in the very beginning andhow they got to the market. But
I think we don't see it as ahuge problem today with the with
the brands that we are workingwith. And what you will see what
(34:55):
cheapass is every everyconnection, every engagement
whether in the city I change orfrom a consumer perspective, is
captured and displayed on ourdashboards and historically
kept. We keep that data. I thinkit's up to seven years now.
Yeah. So
Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo (35:13):
what do you think are some future? Use
cases? And and what trends andthings that you're seeing within
whether it's within the fraudarea, the traceability area
supply chain of, of where do yousee? And what do we need to be
focusing on as we're lookingtowards the future?
Richard Lightfoot (35:33):
Yeah, you know, brand protection is a big
one, because it's where you canbuy, where we can buy our
products today is just greatlyexpanded, you know, the online
sources through social mediathrough you know, big, big
companies like Amazon, eBay, andso forth. So we can do that we
(35:56):
can buy it there. But that meansit also can be sold there. So
that's continually going to be aproblem of, of trusting the
products that you're that you'repurchasing. I mean,
counterfeiting is in thetrillions of dollars as a as a
problem worldwide. And it is notjust that the product is fake,
(36:18):
and in your hands, and you havea fake good, that hurts the
revenue of the brand. You know,there's cases where it, it
contributes to people doing afinancial resource to people
doing other bad things. So youknow, that is continually going
to be a problem and continuallyneed services like cheapass. To
(36:43):
help prevent it, identify itquickly, just just quick story,
going back a little bit. With abig, life style type, outdoor
company here in the US. When Ifirst met with them, they
received a package back, Ihappen to be at their corporate
office received a package back,and it was fake products. And
(37:04):
these fake products. Obviouslywere identified. Many months
ago, consumer complaint brandsays shipping back, they pay to
have them ship them back, theyget their investigate, yes, it
is a counterfeit. And now theygotta figure out where that was,
that was potentially produced,how it was produced. And that's
(37:28):
going to take months now G pathswill identify a fake product in
real time. So not only you theconsumer, no, but the brand will
get that in real time as well.
And they can investigate wherethe sort of trend analysis of
activity is occurring, andcombine that with their other
resources to help help shut itdown. So that again, that
information exchange is onlygoing to continue to expand. And
(37:51):
it needs to expand becausethat's a growing problem.
growing trend is this kind ofactivity. The other thing, you
know, is a supply chain. I mean,we've been in a global
environment, global market formany, many years. So having an
(38:14):
understanding of where yourproducts are moving, when
they're moving rules around,they're moving, how long it
should take to get from A to B,being able to track that, but
also be able to trace it, traceit back on that that's going to
only increase in importance,along with the brand protection
(38:37):
side. And then finally, I'd sayit's just that the digital tape
digitization of products, andwhat consumers are demanding, I
mean, understanding where it wassourced where it came from, you
know, those are how it wassourced. And that understanding
(39:01):
of the life of your product inyour hands will dictate buying
decisions. And so it's gonna bea continued growth in trend
there. To educate consumersconsumers are demanding it now.
(39:21):
In every shape and form, soyeah,
Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo (39:26):
yeah.
Yeah. And so along those lines,how do you see that so it would
be available? Let's just takeyou know, I don't want to I want
to purchase vegan clothing.
(39:46):
Right. So they didn't know thatit's, you know, it's sourced
ethically in a vegan sort ofway. How, how would a consumer
we wouldn't need to be likeindividual manufacturers.
Enrolling in a program.
That's that's kind of how itwould have to be right, it would
have to be individual companieskind of taking a stand to verify
(40:11):
and make available publicly thatthey their energy or
sustainability goals or whatevertheir their goals are being met,
right?
Richard Lightfoot (40:23):
How its produced, everything that went
into that particular productdoesn't necessarily have to be
captured via cheapass. But itneeds to be ingested by GPS. So
there are situations where wehave a consumer product on a
(40:43):
market of food product. And in asupermarket, where we know, we
have farm data that we'rebringing in and combining down
to the individual product levelor the code that ends up on the
individual product. And so thatthe consumer is well educated in
(41:06):
what they're buying. But youknow, that the flexibility of a
system like Jeep has to be ableto ingest that data, and then
make it an engagement point forfor consumers. But yeah, I mean,
we're seeing that more and moredifferent entities can
participate with systems thatgenerate that data, we just need
(41:30):
to be able to integrate withthat and capture that data
efficiently. And that's whatwe're not potentially out in the
field with the system that'scollecting that data. But we're
the ones that are going toculminate buying it with the
individual. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo (41:47):
Yeah, can see, that'd be hugely valuable,
right? To wanting to understand,again, going back to people are
buying based on their values,and what they want to see
corporations do today or not, orbe aligned with what they say
that they're going to do or not.
And so this is one mechanism tobe able to do that.
Richard Lightfoot (42:08):
Another use case, I mean, recycling of
products is huge. So Imentioned, one of the engagement
points is that we do is loyaltyand rewards. And we connect with
systems that do that. So itsproduct has a unique identity,
it can only be redeemed once.
But we've some jurisdictionshave different recycling. You
(42:30):
know, not laws, but what theywill recycle in this particular
bin in that particular bin, someproducts need to be brought
someplace to be recycled. Sowhat we can do there is combined
recycling with loyalty andrewards and offer points based
on the product and the code onthat particular product when
(42:55):
it's when it's recycled. And,and so you scan a product, and
you understand how it should berecycled, where it can be
recycled and prospective towhere you are in your
geolocation. And you can getpoints and you're gonna see more
and more of that come into play,because it's being driven from
from consumers. So all thesedifferent use cases as it
(43:19):
relates to sustainability. And,yes, the corporate structure has
to have that messaging that canbe part of that information
exchange on a scan. But thenthis is an example of not only
having that, but taking it astep farther and helping people
with their own values. That, youknow, as it relates to our
(43:43):
environment are onlystrengthening.
Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo (43:48):
Yeah, very cool. Well, I always find
something new and interestingevery time we talk, which it's,
I think it's a fascinatingtopic, and also very, in line
with some of the things that Iwork on with my team and folks
have round, true businessprocess understanding, right.
(44:10):
And I think that that'ssomething that is potentially a
lost art these days of takingthe time to really understand
business operations and whatthey mean and where is
everything going. I think in myspace, we often call it like a
data map. But literally, there'salso the product map and like
footprint of what and how thingsare moving throughout the world,
(44:33):
which is really, really superimportant as well. So I thank
you for that.
Richard Lightfoot (44:39):
Absolutely.
My pleasure. Thank you first.
Dori Gonzalez-Aceve (44:44):
Absolutely.
Is there any some last partingwords or things for folks to to
ponder or think about as theymove forward with some of their
initiatives?
Richard Lightfoot (44:56):
Yeah, you know, like I started at the
beginning I mean sterilizationis is not new. It's it's been
done for, you know, simple basicreasons, mandated reasons,
government mandated reasons andgood reasons. But now, I think
the key is, there's so manydifferent use cases of how we
can derive value as a result ofthat serialization. So we've
(45:20):
talked about many here today,and it's only going to expand.
And that's what, when I joinedcheapass, I'd love the fact that
we had the unique challenges orreal challenges that company
were facing. And we could wecould help them with that, that
those challenges have just gonefrom a finite little window to a
(45:43):
very large window and thepossibilities of how we can help
them is tremendous. So veryexcited about where this goes,
where we talked about AI comesin, and that sort of learning.
And, and just, you know, solvingsome challenges that are a real
world and in the globalmarketplace. So looking forward
to it.
Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo (46:03):
Yeah.
Very, very cool. Well, thanks,rich, and I hope you have a
wonderful rest of your day.
Thanks for spending time withus.
Richard Lightfoot (46:10):
Thanks, story. Take care. Bye
Well, welcome to another episode of
(00:02):
software quality. Today, I'mwith rich Lightfoot from open
text today, I'm super excited byhaving this conversation into a
topic that I found fascinating.
And I thought it was definitelysomething that I needed to bring
to everyone's intention. Sowelcome rich to the show.
Richard Lightfoot (00:19):
Thanks, Tori.
Glad to glad to be here.
Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo (00:22):
So I would love for you to take a
moment and kind of give thefolks a more in depth
understanding of who you are. Iknow we did a quick intro of you
in the bumper, but I wanted tohear let you kind of describe
how you came to be in the roleof the GPS owner, you're like
the architect of GPS, right? Forthe most part, you kind of
(00:44):
started off the group.
Richard Lightfoot (00:46):
Ah, well, I joined the group in 2016, when
we were part of H P E. G passactually dates back to our
Twitch creation by HewlettPackard or HP. And I joined to
be the Americas lead forcheapass from a strategy
(01:08):
perspective, from a businessdevelopment perspective, working
with channel partners, like forseller RX, like other partners,
and also direct customers on aglobal scale, based here in the
US.
Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo (01:25):
Awesome.
So what what were you doingbefore
Richard Lightfoot (01:30):
my career dates back to digital printing
actually, prior to coming onboard in the in the software
world. So I was involved inprinting here in the Washington
area, from a digital perspectivefrom anything you can imagine
(01:51):
marketing, collateral magazines,for associations, and what I
found is that industry, mainlythe print industry was becoming
very plateaued, very mature. Sowhat would CI pass, we actually
end up as a printed code onproducts in a variety of
(02:14):
different fashion. So I startedsort of made the connection and
pivoted into the security field,initially with with cheapass,
back in 2016. So that's, it'skind of a it's sort of almost
two careers, but they areconnected through through a
print aspect, but I'm reallyenjoying joining the software
(02:34):
side of it, and how it'sgrowing.
Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo (02:38):
So can you tell us all what GPS stands
for him? What is it mean? And soI think that's very interesting
history here.
Richard Lightfoot (02:47):
cheapass stands for Global Product
authentication service. And Imentioned it was designed and
built by Hewlett Packard, backin 2009, they had a serious, two
serious problems. One wascounterfeiting, where fake HP
products were entering themarket, and the other one was
(03:10):
gray market diversion. Diversionis a real product. But it's
meant to go down one channel,one distribution channel. And
what we find is distributorswill take that product and
divert it to another marketgenerally for profit reasons.
(03:30):
But what this does is erodetrust in the channel market, and
affects the market where thoseproducts are being diverted. So
counterfeit products, thatillicit behavior, and this
diversion of products or graymarket diversion. So, so HP went
out on the market in 2009, tolook for a solution to apply to
(03:53):
their situation and couldn'tfind it. So they ended up
building it internally. wildlysuccessful. In fact, in 2013,
they conducted a raid in SaudiArabia, based on the analytics
that cheapass was providing. Andwhat they found is a warehouse
(04:15):
with a total of about $70million of HP products,
counterfeit products, and it wasinitially set up for the ink and
toner market. But what theyfound in that warehouse was a
variety of HP products that werecounterfeit, so hugely
successful in that endeavor. Andwhat they realized is that
(04:38):
they're not the only brand thatwas suffering from these sorts
of illicit activities. Socheapass wasn't named to pass at
the time, but received thatname, and became a standalone
service that HP started offeringacross the globe. And that's
really how it got started andhow it grew and then through
(05:00):
software companies mergers andacquisitions as that occurs, we
went to HPE. That's when Ijoined in 2016 as the Americas
lead, as I mentioned, and thenin 2017, we became part of
microfocus. And recently 2023,we are part of open text, as you
know, and where we fit in andopen Texas is going to be very
(05:22):
interesting. Because they have adivision, the healthy division
called Business Network cloud,primarily focusing on the
internet of things. And if youthink about it, as we get into
cheapass, we are an internet ofthings. But we happen to be the
internet of packaging ofproducts, giving a digital life
(05:44):
to any product for any brandthat is out on the open market.
So it's a it's a good fit,coming into open Tex.
Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo (05:54):
Yeah, what I found interesting, and as
I've been a partner and a userof a lot of HP and microfocus
products over the years, thiswas kind of like this sleeping
giant that I stumbled upon asPersol. X came as to be a full
partner with open text, and Iwas really interested in it,
because there I see there's somany applications within life
(06:17):
sciences that have been perhapsnot necessarily looked at, or
thought of how to integrateintegrate all these tools
together. And why as a platformitself is an integral part of a
business strategy that should beconsidered. So can you tell me a
little bit more about some ofthe use cases that you have
(06:39):
identified within the lifesciences?
Richard Lightfoot (06:42):
Yeah, life sciences is a is a strong market
for for cheapass. And if we lookat some of those use cases, for
example, over the counternutraceutical products, is a big
space for us, a lot of thoseproducts suffer from the same
(07:04):
problems, like the consumerproduct goods that HP was
offering in other brands likethat, that illicit behavior, a
lot of those get knocked off getdiverted. So number one, brand
protection is a big use casewithin within life sciences. And
the other is just anunderstanding of product
(07:25):
movement and traceability. A lotof Life Science products are
consumed by you and I andpeople. So having the ability to
secure your supply chain andknow what's going on in your
supply chain, the movement ofproducts, and being able to
(07:46):
convey that from a trustperspective to consumers that
are ingesting those, in thiscase, nutraceuticals. Is is key.
So having an understanding ofwhere it's moving securely, and
I'll give you an example of thatwe had a customer in New
Zealand, that was in the infantcare, business and still are.
(08:11):
But they produced their formulain very large containers that
went out to supply partners thatwas then mixed down co packed
into units for sale in China andother countries. And what there
was a scare in China, whereseveral children unfortunately
(08:33):
died as a result of taintedinfant formula. And as it turned
out, it wasn't as a result ofthis particular company. But
they couldn't guarantee thatbecause they had a lack of
visibility of their supplychain. So understanding the
chain of custody from onelocation to the next, being able
(08:55):
to show that document it showthe folks involved show what
specific individual products,what bulk products in that case,
were moved, received, andultimately, can be accounted for
down to the individual productlevel. So that's a key use case
(09:16):
in life science sciences. Andwe're seeing that more and more,
because one has been demandedfrom the consumer side. And
obviously, it's in the case ofthat organization. There were
government pressures to have itas well. So both sides are
forcing that company to takeaction.
Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo (09:35):
Yeah, so there's an infant formula.
There's, especially in China,there's a lot of laws and
regulations around how thoseneed to be tracked and traced.
It's an ideal use case forsomething like G pass. But to
your point, the what I see inthe complexity of our supply
chain today, particularly onLife Sciences is getting so much
(09:58):
so many more pieces. is in it'spart of the puzzle, right? And
how to really how to reallynavigate all that in one
cohesive way, is very difficult,right? So the company that
actually markets and producesthe end thing might have 234 100
(10:19):
pieces of the supply chain that,that go into that right? And
then how to that that web, ifyou will, of, of complexity
requires sophisticatedtechnology in order to make
meaning of all of that. And so Ithink that's a enormous added
value.
Richard Lightfoot (10:39):
Yeah, I mean, at the core of cheapass, there
were two mandates by the CEO ofHP at the time when it was
created. One, it had to be costeffective. We're seeing that
play out in the blockchainworld. Because initial instances
(11:01):
of that have not been costeffective. And you're seeing
people like IBM, IBM, saying,Hey, we're not just going to
throw money at this, we'regetting out of the blockchain
business. So the over art, thearchitecture has to be cost
effective. It also has to beunobtrusive to systems in place
(11:22):
at all those multiple locationsthat you're talking about,
coexist with, being able tointegrate with systems that are
in play equipment that's inplay. So it can be introduced
quickly and efficiently. Andagain, back to the cost and cost
effectively. And that sort of isat the heart of GE paths from
(11:44):
day one. And we have plenty ofcustomers that have obviously
don't own the whole supply chainas you as you mentioned. So they
still they have contractors,they have contract
manufacturing, they havecontract distributors, those
distributors, it for them to bewilling to participate, because
(12:10):
some brands have the clout tosay you will participate or you
won't be my partner, but a lotdon't. So there's got to be an
ease of entry for that level tobe able to come in and be a part
of the of the solution. Andthat's where I think cheapass
fits really well. Because weplay well, with those systems,
(12:33):
we integrate easily with thosesystems. We also, if there isn't
a system have a standalone userinterface. So cheapass can be
the whole thing from A to B to Cto D to E to the consumer, or
there can be levels in therehave, or systems in there that
are already in place that we canintegrate with and pick up data
(12:56):
because it's all about datacoming back at the moment,
Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo (13:00):
right?
It's and then uniformity of thatdata when you bring it in. So
can you speak a little bit tothat, because one of the the
primary use cases, is thetraceability in terms of also
then recall that that is anextension of that when things go
wrong, right within lifesciences. And so how does that
kind of play intofolks using so I was recently at
(13:24):
a conference when the wholenotion of recall came up. And
and still to this day, there isa paper process in place in most
organizations in order to sendphysical letters and to to
establish folks that were onrecord at a point in time in
order to get that informationback in terms of recall. Right.
(13:46):
And it was kind of startled methat, that even today in 2023,
there's still such a manualprocess around the recall
mechanism. And so can how canDupas help in this sort of way?
Richard Lightfoot (14:03):
Yeah, well, there are a lot of different
systems in that come into playwith recalls you just mentioned.
But I think two things that Gpasque can do very well is
number one, identify what needsto be recalled. And so how do we
do that? So every product gets aunique identity, a code on every
(14:29):
single product and and we'recode agnostic, but going back to
that cost effective andunobtrusive will tend to be a QR
code on a product. And when Isay a QR code, I mean a
different QR code on everysingle product and a QR code.
Think of it like a sponge. Ithas the ability to accept
(14:53):
information. So that QR code ona production line that's running
at a particular moment connectsets, expiry date, batch number,
product lot number, anyattribute that you want to
attach to it that is stuck withthat particular code on that
particular product, when it whenit leaves the manufacturing
(15:14):
plant. So it's a known entity ofwhen it was produced, what batch
it was a part of. And then wecan write business rules around
that. So if a batch isidentified as bad, or several
batches, we can understand wherethose batches, what is involved,
how many products, what specificproducts where they have been
(15:36):
transported. And I think you'llstill have some mechanisms of
their of communicating withwhere they've been distributed.
But having that knowledgeupfront, is absolutely critical.
And then, because we've donethis legwork up front, added
this information to theindividual QR codes on
(15:56):
individual products, we canengage with consumers to update
that information upon scanningthat particular QR code. So that
they are aware that thisparticular product is part of a
recall. But it's it's all aboutadding to the to the knowledge
(16:16):
of of where these are, whatproducts are involved. And
that's how cheapass can reallyhelp. We take that a little bit
farther and integrate with somesome systems in some government
systems was specifically focusedon recall, mainly up in Canada
(16:37):
and debt down in Australia, weare the backbone of some systems
for specific use case of justrecall in those particular
countries, and it's part of whatthey call the Food Network
service. So yeah, I mean, that'sthe knowledge is key in this
situation, being able to knowwhat's bad and know where it is,
(16:57):
and being able to help get thatoff the shelves. But also, if it
does get into consumers hands,give the consumers have a
mechanism to to identifyexactly. If they have a good
product or not, again, thatspeaks to that sort of trust and
sources as well. And that's whatwe do. That's what we do very
(17:19):
well.
Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo (17:22):
In that sense, it's more than just the
label. Right? And I think thatthat's like at the heart. Yeah,
the heart of it is that I thinkone of the, when we came to from
a life science perspective said,you know, serialization is a
thing, we need to doserialization, like it was a
very, like, not thinking aboutthe broader sense of what that
(17:46):
really means, and how does itextend throughout the supply
chain, but more of just anactivity that needed to be done
and implemented. And so when Ithink of, and when I see G paths
in use, and what you'vedemonstrated in some of the use
case, is I take that one stepfurther in terms of the life
science kind of personalizedmedicine, way of which and
(18:09):
direct to consumers thatcompanies are now marketing and
going direct to right. So we're,we're in an age where there is
truly solutions and therapiesthat are unique to an individual
and personalized medicine andhow a system and platform like
(18:30):
GPS can help make that chainthat custody chain to that
individual as as quickly aspossible. Just is really kind of
the next extension for me, whatdo you think about some of the
other future use cases that yousee?
Richard Lightfoot (18:49):
Yeah, I mean, well, just building on the topic
of recall, we worked with amajor company here in the United
States that had that happen tothem and had to pull a lot of
products off the shelf. And thatis very costly to do that. But
(19:12):
it's also damaging to the to thebrand's reputation. So being
able to have a on the packagedigitized package communication
level between the brand and theconsumer, and regain that trust
is going to be very important asthey as they come back to market
(19:32):
which they are. And I mentionedadding attributes to QR code,
this particular company adds allthe quality steps that they go
through and checks to a productso when a consumer scans it,
it's a good product at thispoint. They're not going to get
any sort of recall type messagebut they will get a message that
(19:54):
says this product has passedthese checks you know And the
messaging that they want to giveto the consumer, but that's
going to help build thatreputation back up. So that's
obviously a use case of how thatengagement and consumer
(20:14):
engagement. I mean, that's, thatis an example of consumer
engagement. And we're seeingthat more and more.
Dori Gonzalez-Aceved (20:22):
Definitely changing, right, like we, as
consumers alike are changing. SoI, you know, I have my medical
device on my ring, right, thatis a medical device. And I would
like to know, immediately asit's connected to my app, when
and if there's a recallassociated with something that
I'm wearing on my body. Now, myring is an innocuous thing. But
(20:43):
pacemakers is really important.
Right? Put in rich plasma, fromother people really important.
Other things are much, much morecritical. And utilizing kind of
this way of which what I likewhat you're saying, is a
combination, it's not just aboutthe regulations anymore, right?
It's about combining quality bydesign from the very, very
(21:04):
start, right. And if we can dothat, and and that also then
builds the company in the brandof whatever it is, right? But
it's very intentional, from thevery start, rather than waiting
to something happens or waitingfor a change in regulation to
occur, right, it's kind of justbest business practice.
Richard Lightfoot (21:29):
Look, we want things quickly for how our
society is, is working now. Soinformation we want to, we want
it fast. Another use case, Icould give you this, as you
know, unrelated to recall tobrand protection, but is growing
a product and in a new market.
And having instant data of howyou're doing is key. So we have
(21:54):
a bit of a particular customerthat uses it for sample
management and think these aresort of over the counter type
products. But they would berecommended to you say if you
had an orthopedic operation, andyou were in the lobby, there
might be something in there.
(22:15):
That is a product you take afterthe surgery that helped maybe
your scar tissue heal orsomething of that nature. But
think of samples reps are acompany that put these engaged
with doctors, you know,50 60,000 different operations,
healthcare providers around thecountry, to put samples in their
(22:36):
lobby, talk to the doctor to getthem to recommend it in those
situations and build thatrapport. But having an
understanding of is thatworking? Is it resulting in
sales and having thatinformation come to you quickly.
So what we do is with that code,on those products, those
individual codes that go intothe lobby, the sales rep can
(22:59):
scan that code, either at anindividual level or a case
level, and assign them to ahealthcare provider, that
healthcare provider then putsthem in the lobby, we can track
the consumer engagement withthat product. And we can
understand if it absolutely, andthere's a typically an incentive
there to try it, purchase it. Wecan track it all the way through
(23:22):
to that. So that's instantinformation of how your products
in a sample management programare working or not, you'll
you'll understand if thathealthcare provider is at the
top of the charts in movement ofproducts and scans and sales or
not. And those are sort of whereyou can have those targeted
(23:45):
conversations in this scenarioof how to use a code and how to
how to help a sample program. Sothat's another use case that
we're seeing.
Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo (23:54):
Yeah, I like that. I wonder if you can
talk a little bit about some ofthe challenges you've seen. I
can imagine that data structureis probably at the top of your
list, but I was curious of whatyou think are some of the
challenges you've seen inimplementing programs when you
come into somewhere? What arewhat are some of the things that
(24:15):
companies are not thinking aboutor should be thinking about?
Richard Lightfoot (24:22):
That's that's a good question. I mean, when
when you look at GPS when youput a code on a product, if you
have to have buy in not onlywhere it's going to be directly
involved, but certainly youknow, a marketing team related
(24:43):
to the packaging. The team thatis responsible, whether it's an
internal manufacturing facilityor or not a contract
manufacturing, how are theygoing to buy into this new code
and some actions that they mayhave to take based on
requirements of putting thiscode on. Examples of that are
(25:11):
not so, so much in the lifesciences, but we have some
consumer product good customersthat contract manufacturer,
their goods, and they requirethose manufacturers to put a
code cheapass code on. And theyrequire those manufacturers in
some process to add someattributes to that, where it was
(25:33):
produced when it was producedinformation, again, that is
attached to those individual QRcodes, there are some process
changes that have to be thoughtof in the manufacturing in the
supply chain. We integrate withdistrict main distributors like
(25:53):
DHL, and FedEx to understandsort of the last leg of where
that product is going to aretail operation. Those we
would, we would require a stepin that case to identify the
products being shipped. So thereare some steps that must be
(26:15):
considered with your partners,whether they're our partners, or
whether it's an internaloperation. And then sort of
getting a broad base of buy infrom different departments
within the organization. Nowfolks in the marketing don't
like to change their theirpackaging. The nice thing about
again, we're code agnostic. Andwhat I mean by that we could be
(26:38):
taking information from RFID forNFC, but a QR code on a package.
One, they're ubiquitous,everyone knows what they do.
Because we just went through aperiod where a lot of paper
products were taken off themenu, for example, scan, and we
still aren't doing that. So sothe QR code is a known entity
(27:02):
out in the market. And it'sdoesn't you just point your
camera at it and go. And, and sothat's why it's we're seeing it
become so effective. Butmarketers historically don't
want to add things they want tohave their packaging look as as
pretty and as cool as possible.
And I get it. But that'schanging with the this
(27:24):
ubiquitous nature of the QR codeand its acceptance. And its
acceptance, because everyoneknows what to do with it. You
don't even have to tell anyone,hey, st scan here. I mean, we
have other players out in themarket that have fancier sort of
designs, and interesting sort ofmarks. A lot of those you have
to download an app to read. Oneof the things we found because
(27:48):
we had that back in the securityday to add security to a to a
code was that the drop off rateand abandonment rate of scanning
a QR code or code that requireda download of an app was was
tremendous, statistically. Andthis is sort of ironic, but 18
(28:10):
to 24 year olds have a higherrate of abandonment for
downloading apps than olderolder folks in the tune of like
85% of people of 18 to 20 yearolds will abandon the process
when asked to download an app toread a particular mark, where
it's about 78 in the 55. Andover. That's weird, strange,
(28:32):
interesting, but even 78% Youdon't want to have that
abandonment, right. Because thecode brings the data in what
product is right
Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo (28:46):
and so for the truce, yeah, right. So
the for the true story, right,if we do from the very cradle to
grave sort of scenario, right?
need folks to scan at every partof the process in order to get
the data that you need us
Richard Lightfoot (29:01):
and yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. There's got to
be
Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo (29:06):
educate me a little but that's the same
in blockchain too. I wouldthink, right. I mean, it's the
See you still need humaninteraction at some or or not
necessarily human but you needan interaction a lot
Richard Lightfoot (29:20):
to do the thing with Blockchain concepts
conceptually, yeah, it's, it'sgreat. Practically not so great.
Because it's hard to implement.
There's systems that have to bein place at every single level.
You know, this is why IBM gotout of it. They, they couldn't
(29:43):
cost justify it. They had a big,I think I think Merck was
involved there was a consortiumthat they were trying to
develop. But the ROI of puttingthose systems in at every single
space was way too expensive. Ofthe, I mean, there's a
sustainability aspects spinningup servers at every single
(30:05):
instance, the beyond theblockchain energy costs cost of
the equipment, you know, sothose sorts of things. And
that's why they got out of it.
And that's where sort of oursystem is based on cloud, a
cloud system. And I think you'llsee blockchain come around to
(30:30):
that. But, you know, IBM justgot out of it the end of 2022,
and are spinning down. So it hasto evolve because of those
reasons, hard to implement,expensive to implement. Whereas
we feel that a cloud basedsystem where it's easy to jump
in and participate is a lot moreeffective, because you're right,
(30:51):
every point has to acknowledgeand contribute to that data
stream.
Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo (30:57):
Yeah. I mean, I find the power and when
I first saw you guys demo for methe power of possibility in the
solution. And that is whatexcited me most is that the
concept of what you've developedand how you can apply it to a
(31:18):
variety of different scenarios,right? Where and that's, you
know, part of why we talk aboutthese use cases, because like,
this is a similar terminologywhen folks talks are talking
about AI and machine learningand blockchain, right, it's
these use cases like you, we canthink up a lot of different
things. Right? We're just reallygood at that as humans, right?
(31:39):
It, but we can be really superspecific with GPS. And as long
as we identify the businessprocess along the way that we're
trying to, to capture. Andthat's what your team does as
well, correct?
Richard Lightfoot (31:53):
Yeah, I mean, to that point, we've been
involved in, I think it's two orthree studies that have resulted
in I think it's higher thanwhite papers, but with a
Colorado State University, andit is about analyzing the data.
Look, what cheapass, there isthe fundamental day to day
(32:15):
operational, this product wentfrom a to b, I want to sit make
sure it got there from a trackand trace, or I pick up a
product. And I want tounderstand it, how it got here,
where did it go through? Wherewas it produced? So that's
tracking trace going out and thetraceability going back those
day to day things. But you know,what, if we and this is what
(32:37):
Colorado State University, westarted putting some
mathematical algorithms to thedata from a sort of consumer
perspective on the back endwhere the product was being
engaged and, and that sort ofanalysis is going to is going to
grow, especially with AI. Youknow, what predictive sort of
(32:59):
things that can be produced as aresult of, of artificial
intelligence, the potential forproducts to be go into the gray
market, as it understands wherethose exist. That is going to be
an exciting trend of how thestate on the back end is studied
(33:22):
and, and worked. It's going tobe very, very interesting.
Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo (33:28):
So I can also imagine, given the
technology, it doesn't matterwhere samples, for example, end
up going in the world. Right. Sothat historically has also been
a pain point for like ClinicalTrial Management and stuff like
that, right, where there is alack of Internet and other sorts
(33:51):
of issues economically, thatthat don't allow that. But but
with a GPS, I'm thinking that wecould foresee some of those
things and make sure that thoseare in place in order for the
full conductivity of the of thecycle gets back to you.
Richard Lightfoot (34:08):
Yeah, I mean, there's there's different
models, I mean, for the mostpart, it is it is going to be
internet based and whereconnectivity from an internet
perspective is available. Andthat's that that's obviously
growing tremendously. We havehad situations where it wasn't
(34:30):
available, we had to resolveback to sort of SMS technology
out in the field with somemalaria drug tests we did way
back in the very beginning andhow they got to the market. But
I think we don't see it as ahuge problem today with the with
the brands that we are workingwith. And what you will see what
(34:55):
cheapass is every everyconnection, every engagement
whether in the city I change orfrom a consumer perspective, is
captured and displayed on ourdashboards and historically
kept. We keep that data. I thinkit's up to seven years now.
Yeah. So
Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo (35:13):
what do you think are some future? Use
cases? And and what trends andthings that you're seeing within
whether it's within the fraudarea, the traceability area
supply chain of, of where do yousee? And what do we need to be
focusing on as we're lookingtowards the future?
Richard Lightfoot (35:33):
Yeah, you know, brand protection is a big
one, because it's where you canbuy, where we can buy our
products today is just greatlyexpanded, you know, the online
sources through social mediathrough you know, big, big
companies like Amazon, eBay, andso forth. So we can do that we
(35:56):
can buy it there. But that meansit also can be sold there. So
that's continually going to be aproblem of, of trusting the
products that you're that you'repurchasing. I mean,
counterfeiting is in thetrillions of dollars as a as a
problem worldwide. And it is notjust that the product is fake,
(36:18):
and in your hands, and you havea fake good, that hurts the
revenue of the brand. You know,there's cases where it, it
contributes to people doing afinancial resource to people
doing other bad things. So youknow, that is continually going
to be a problem and continuallyneed services like cheapass. To
(36:43):
help prevent it, identify itquickly, just just quick story,
going back a little bit. With abig, life style type, outdoor
company here in the US. When Ifirst met with them, they
received a package back, Ihappen to be at their corporate
office received a package back,and it was fake products. And
(37:04):
these fake products. Obviouslywere identified. Many months
ago, consumer complaint brandsays shipping back, they pay to
have them ship them back, theyget their investigate, yes, it
is a counterfeit. And now theygotta figure out where that was,
that was potentially produced,how it was produced. And that's
(37:28):
going to take months now G pathswill identify a fake product in
real time. So not only you theconsumer, no, but the brand will
get that in real time as well.
And they can investigate wherethe sort of trend analysis of
activity is occurring, andcombine that with their other
resources to help help shut itdown. So that again, that
information exchange is onlygoing to continue to expand. And
(37:51):
it needs to expand becausethat's a growing problem.
growing trend is this kind ofactivity. The other thing, you
know, is a supply chain. I mean,we've been in a global
environment, global market formany, many years. So having an
(38:14):
understanding of where yourproducts are moving, when
they're moving rules around,they're moving, how long it
should take to get from A to B,being able to track that, but
also be able to trace it, traceit back on that that's going to
only increase in importance,along with the brand protection
(38:37):
side. And then finally, I'd sayit's just that the digital tape
digitization of products, andwhat consumers are demanding, I
mean, understanding where it wassourced where it came from, you
know, those are how it wassourced. And that understanding
(39:01):
of the life of your product inyour hands will dictate buying
decisions. And so it's gonna bea continued growth in trend
there. To educate consumersconsumers are demanding it now.
(39:21):
In every shape and form, soyeah,
Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo (39:26):
yeah.
Yeah. And so along those lines,how do you see that so it would
be available? Let's just takeyou know, I don't want to I want
to purchase vegan clothing.
(39:46):
Right. So they didn't know thatit's, you know, it's sourced
ethically in a vegan sort ofway. How, how would a consumer
we wouldn't need to be likeindividual manufacturers.
Enrolling in a program.
That's that's kind of how itwould have to be right, it would
have to be individual companieskind of taking a stand to verify
(40:11):
and make available publicly thatthey their energy or
sustainability goals or whatevertheir their goals are being met,
right?
Richard Lightfoot (40:23):
How its produced, everything that went
into that particular productdoesn't necessarily have to be
captured via cheapass. But itneeds to be ingested by GPS. So
there are situations where wehave a consumer product on a
(40:43):
market of food product. And in asupermarket, where we know, we
have farm data that we'rebringing in and combining down
to the individual product levelor the code that ends up on the
individual product. And so thatthe consumer is well educated in
(41:06):
what they're buying. But youknow, that the flexibility of a
system like Jeep has to be ableto ingest that data, and then
make it an engagement point forfor consumers. But yeah, I mean,
we're seeing that more and moredifferent entities can
participate with systems thatgenerate that data, we just need
(41:30):
to be able to integrate withthat and capture that data
efficiently. And that's whatwe're not potentially out in the
field with the system that'scollecting that data. But we're
the ones that are going toculminate buying it with the
individual. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo (41:47):
Yeah, can see, that'd be hugely valuable,
right? To wanting to understand,again, going back to people are
buying based on their values,and what they want to see
corporations do today or not, orbe aligned with what they say
that they're going to do or not.
And so this is one mechanism tobe able to do that.
Richard Lightfoot (42:08):
Another use case, I mean, recycling of
products is huge. So Imentioned, one of the engagement
points is that we do is loyaltyand rewards. And we connect with
systems that do that. So itsproduct has a unique identity,
it can only be redeemed once.
But we've some jurisdictionshave different recycling. You
(42:30):
know, not laws, but what theywill recycle in this particular
bin in that particular bin, someproducts need to be brought
someplace to be recycled. Sowhat we can do there is combined
recycling with loyalty andrewards and offer points based
on the product and the code onthat particular product when
(42:55):
it's when it's recycled. And,and so you scan a product, and
you understand how it should berecycled, where it can be
recycled and prospective towhere you are in your
geolocation. And you can getpoints and you're gonna see more
and more of that come into play,because it's being driven from
from consumers. So all thesedifferent use cases as it
(43:19):
relates to sustainability. And,yes, the corporate structure has
to have that messaging that canbe part of that information
exchange on a scan. But thenthis is an example of not only
having that, but taking it astep farther and helping people
with their own values. That, youknow, as it relates to our
(43:43):
environment are onlystrengthening.
Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo (43:48):
Yeah, very cool. Well, I always find
something new and interestingevery time we talk, which it's,
I think it's a fascinatingtopic, and also very, in line
with some of the things that Iwork on with my team and folks
have round, true businessprocess understanding, right.
(44:10):
And I think that that'ssomething that is potentially a
lost art these days of takingthe time to really understand
business operations and whatthey mean and where is
everything going. I think in myspace, we often call it like a
data map. But literally, there'salso the product map and like
footprint of what and how thingsare moving throughout the world,
(44:33):
which is really, really superimportant as well. So I thank
you for that.
Richard Lightfoot (44:39):
Absolutely.
My pleasure. Thank you first.
Dori Gonzalez-Aceve (44:44):
Absolutely.
Is there any some last partingwords or things for folks to to
ponder or think about as theymove forward with some of their
initiatives?
Richard Lightfoot (44:56):
Yeah, you know, like I started at the
beginning I mean sterilizationis is not new. It's it's been
done for, you know, simple basicreasons, mandated reasons,
government mandated reasons andgood reasons. But now, I think
the key is, there's so manydifferent use cases of how we
can derive value as a result ofthat serialization. So we've
(45:20):
talked about many here today,and it's only going to expand.
And that's what, when I joinedcheapass, I'd love the fact that
we had the unique challenges orreal challenges that company
were facing. And we could wecould help them with that, that
those challenges have just gonefrom a finite little window to a
(45:43):
very large window and thepossibilities of how we can help
them is tremendous. So veryexcited about where this goes,
where we talked about AI comesin, and that sort of learning.
And, and just, you know, solvingsome challenges that are a real
world and in the globalmarketplace. So looking forward
to it.
Dori Gonzalez-Acevedo (46:03):
Yeah.
Very, very cool. Well, thanks,rich, and I hope you have a
wonderful rest of your day.
Thanks for spending time withus.
Richard Lightfoot (46:10):
Thanks, story. Take care. Bye
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