September 17, 2025 • 45 mins
This Week's Episode:
In this episode of 'Software Sales Simplified', Kevin and Matt engage with podcasting expert Ryan R. Sullivan to explore the significance of podcasting in business, particularly in the realm of software sales. They discuss the benefits of starting a podcast, the importance of identifying a niche, and foundational strategies for success. Ryan shares insights on the complications of corporate podcasting, the value of client interviews, and the role of storytelling in sales. The conversation emphasizes the need for consistency in podcasting and how to leverage content across various platforms. Ryan also introduces a program for businesses to test podcasting before fully committing, highlighting the potential impact of podcasts on personal and professional growth.
About our Guest - Ryan R. Sullivan:
Ryan makes music, podcasts, and creative strategies. He’s the owner of Podcast Principles, a boutique content strategy and production company for B2B businesses. After his own podcast and music career took off in 2019, he began helping other business owners launch their own.
Since then, he’s helped hundreds of founders, entrepreneurs, and multi-platinum artists around the world launch and grow their podcasts and media brands. His mission is to help thousands of business owners expand their reach and revenue through the power of creative podcasting and media.
Where to Learn More About Ryan:
You can find Ryan’s profile on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sullybop/
You can check out his podcast here:
https://www.linkedin.com/company/podcast-principles/
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Software Sales Simplified
01:21 The Importance of Podcasting in Business
02:24 Ryan Sullivan: Podcasting Expert
04:03 Benefits of Starting a Podcast
05:58 Identifying Your Niche for Podcasting
08:21 Foundational Strategies for Podcast Success
10:12 Getting Started with Podcasting
12:34 The Evolution of Podcasting Skills
13:56 The Market's Role in Podcast Success
17:43 Podcasting for Sales Professionals
20:28 Navigating Complications in Corporate Podcasting
23:30 The Power of Authentic Storytelling
26:38 Podcasting vs. Podcast-Style Content
29:50 Shifting Focus from Software to Stories
32:58 Leveraging Podcast Content Across Platforms
38:08 Testing the Waters with Podcasting
39:54 Finding Your Voice in Podcasting
45:34 See You Next Week!
About Software Sales Simplified:
Visit us at: https://www.strategicsalesoptimization.com/
Follow us on Linkedin: https://tinyurl.com/2tcx7mjx
Send us your questions at - Sales@stratsalesllc.com
"What is a Sales Engineer?" - Education Series on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxuHbkRfIWtVj_Hg1GYBIg-o5M-icJLn0
Get Your Copy of "Winning Faster"!
Available Here:
https://www.strategicsalesoptimization.com/move-book
Why Listen to Software Sales Simplified?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:08):
Welcome to software sales simplified move to success, the
podcast for sellers that want toget better at selling enterprise
software's. Whether you are new to the
industry or an old pro, please make our podcast your one stop
shop for the latest and greatestin insights and news with
respect to enterprise software sales.
I'm Kevin Donville and I'm joined by my illustrious
(00:30):
comrade, Matt Long. Matt and I together have over 50
years of experience with professional software, sales,
deployments, implementations andconsulting, and we're very, very
glad that you joined us here today.
Matt, how are you doing on this wonderful Friday?
I'm doing great. I I feel like I've joined the
Communist Party though, now thatI'm your comrade.
(00:52):
I said, comrade, I'm, I meant tosay colleague.
It's interesting how my brain went there.
It wasn't quite where I was planning to go, but does follow
an interesting kind of metamorphosis in my brain.
But no, I, I was reflecting, youknow, in preparation for this
week's podcast, you and I were talking and we talk a lot about
what goes on with the, with our efforts to getting our podcast
(01:14):
together. And, you know, when we first
made the decision to go forward with our podcast, there's a lot
of noise out there trying to sort through that.
So today we've got a guest on here with us who is an expert at
all things related to podcast, Ryan Sullivan.
Ryan, how are you doing today, Sir?
It's good to have you with us. I'm doing fantastic.
(01:35):
I make podcasts and I'm on a podcast.
So I mean, this is it. This is why I exist.
Hopefully the the preparation for this one is easier than you
make preparing for your. Own, you mean?
Well, I don't prepare at all, soyeah, this is much easier.
This sounds like us. We don't.
We don't do put any preparation in together.
We just get on and we wing it together every single week.
(01:57):
But no, all things, all things being jokes here, Ryan, you've
got a great reputation in the market.
You've got a wonderful followingwith respect to the people that
you have educated in how to do podcasts and make them better,
make them a significant portion of their business.
But for those who are listening to the podcast who don't know
(02:17):
you, could you take a moment, kind of expand a little bit upon
that, tell people who you are, what you do, and how you do it?
Yeah, So appreciate it, by the way, having me, both of you.
But Kevin, you know, we had connected a while ago, so it's
awesome to come full circle and actually be able to be on the
podcast. So I'm grateful for it.
I appreciate it. Yeah, in terms of what I do in
the most simple way possible, music, podcasts and creative
(02:40):
strategies, that's what my kind of life has formed into.
Those are in the form of creating podcast strategies for
businesses. Sometimes it moves beyond that,
where I'm creating a full content strategy that would be
involving all of the content that the business would make.
That's at least organic meaning,like not paid, right.
(03:01):
So that's what I do. I basically create strategies.
You know, I, I'm in the ideas game.
Sometimes they're really, reallygood and they hit, and sometimes
they're really, really good and they don't hit.
And so that's how it goes. But yeah, music podcasts got a
bunch of random passions as well.
But that's a little bit about me.
No, it's, it's wonderful. And I, as I said before, I've
(03:22):
learned a lot by watching your material and consuming some of
your content and watching some of your podcasts and the people
you've talked with that I found it to be really enlightening
from the perspective of you say you're in the ideas game.
And when you're trying to start a business, ideas are important
to being able to identify the strategy that you want to come
up with when you go forward intothe marketplace.
(03:43):
With that being in mind, I know you do a lot of work with
individual podcasters, but also businesses, companies that want
to go forward into starting their own podcast presence.
What could like a small emergingor even a mid sized company hope
to gain by bringing a podcast tothe marketplace?
Yeah, it's a good question. I think the, you know, there's
(04:06):
that. There's also how are we going to
make any money from this thing, you know, which we will kind of
unpack throughout this, You know, why would you?
I mean, there's so many benefits.
I'll start with with the person asking the question.
If you're going to be on the podcast, that's going to get you
a lot of benefits in terms of like name recognition, you know,
PR thought leadership is the term that they throw out there,
(04:30):
whatever that means, you know, that's what you're going to get.
So there's that side, then there's the business side,
right? I mean, you're creating an
asset. So you know, what happens is
with marketing is you invest a certain amount of money, right?
And then the thing you get back is an asset.
Now an ad can be an asset, right?
But you need to pay Meta or pay these companies to run that ad.
(04:54):
And in the second you stop paying, they go, well, there
goes your asset. So the podcast is an asset not
because you invest in it, but because it appreciates over
time. Meaning that episode, the more
views it gets from the right people, the less it costs you to
make because the more money you make from, you know, through
(05:16):
attribution that one episode, soto say, right?
So when it comes to why to startone, there's a lot of reasons.
For the most part, I never have to really tell people why they
should. Normally they come to me with
the reason they think they want to start it and then we figure
out if it really makes sense. But the benefits or whatever you
(05:37):
choose them to be, and there area lot of them.
It's just you have to choose which ones you want and that
typically is not an easy thing to do.
You've helped a lot of companiesget started with their podcast.
What are what are some of the companies or the types of
companies that have come to you with that kind of approach and
saying, hey, we're thinking thismight be something to do?
(05:58):
Yeah. I mean, the biggest podcast that
we have ever worked on in terms of longest lasting plus, you
know, largest amount of listeners would be in the life
insurance niche, which if you would have told me that I
wouldn't have, I didn't know what life insurance was.
I mean, I would say I still really don't know, but you know,
I have a policy that's for sure.But no, from working on this
(06:19):
podcast, I know a lot more aboutit.
So there's life insurance, you know, I mean, the three, the
three segments that we, we really focus in on our law
finance and coaching, just because these are the segments
that there's really an accounting to, I'll throw in
there too, under that finance realm.
These are a lot of segments where there's not really that
(06:40):
much content out there about it,right?
And of course, personal finance,there's there's a lot, but what
we do is we with everybody, right, regardless of the
industry that comes to us, we go, what's your niche?
They tell us, then we go one layer below that.
And then that's really where we penetrate with the podcast.
So we find these kind of gaps, no matter the market.
(07:02):
Could be a SAS company that's solving a really niche issue and
coding, which is much better in my opinion.
The more niche, the better, right?
The smaller, the better. Or it could be something like,
you know what I've worked on my my own bank, you know, my
business banking platform that Iuse, you know, they approached
us and we helped them start a podcast.
And guess what? They didn't end up doing it.
(07:23):
It didn't make sense for them, right?
So it doesn't matter the size. This is a bank that has gotten
$100 million in funding and theydidn't end up doing it, right?
So it just, it depends on so many different factors.
But at least for me, the ones that are the biggest, the most
life changing, the largest impact have been really under
the finance umbrella. But don't get me wrong, I've
(07:44):
worked in hip hop, I've worked with mentalist, I've worked with
celebrities, I've done that stuff too.
It can work there too, just in adifferent.
Way so is the first step then ifsomeone turns around, you know,
small, medium business or even alarge business as you were
saying or an individual, they decide, OK, you know what I
think we need to go do a podcast.
I want to get a presence out there.
I want to go and start building my reputation Is that is that
(08:07):
first step of them identifying what their niche is?
Because maybe they don't know. And if they don't get that
right, is that a pit? Is that something a step they
could get wrong? Should they even attempt until
they really understand that? I mean, I suggest that you have
a business strategy, then I suggest that you have a brand
(08:27):
strategy, then I suggest that you have a marketing strategy,
and then I suggest that you havea marketing strategy.
And then I suggest that you havea content strategy is where I
would like the podcast to live. I really shouldn't be doing any
of that work above content strategy, at least for podcast
principles. And what I would do as a
strategist, you should have a branding person in house or
(08:49):
you're learning it as the CEO. You should have a business coach
who understands how we're scaling or somebody that knows
how to scale, right? If that's what you're doing,
meaning like you should have these other pieces in place
because it makes your life so much easier.
The one thing that I say over and over again is the worst
(09:09):
thing that you can have is a successful podcast and an
unsuccessful business. So you don't want to have all
these people obsessed with listening to you, but then you
don't really understand your core offer and your core message
and what you really sell. So yes, the answer is that's the
(09:29):
long answer. The quick answer is yes, have
that figured out ideally. I'm also not against you
figuring out as you go. I mean a lot of some of our
clients have done that. We had clients who had maybe 10
clients when they started their podcast and now they have 6 to
700 clients and now it's a 7 figure business.
So I have arguments each way, but I would like to for, you
(09:51):
know, anybody who's doing this under the umbrella of a business
to have a lot of those other foundational pieces.
How do you recommend that peopleget started?
I mean, it's like, do they just get a microphone and a camera
and go at it, or do they outsource?
Or does it really depend upon what resources they have and
what their appetite is? The annoying answer is it
(10:13):
depends, but the fun answer is yes, get started.
Like let's try this. Like, you know, if this was you
guys, I mean in Kevin, Kevin andI spoke, you know, a while back,
if you guys were starting the podcast and we weren't here
right now, I would go to Kevin and be like, hey, you know, get
you guys Co host, you know, try Co hosting, try doing solo and
(10:37):
then try doing an interview. The more of those you do, the
better. Don't do anything with them.
Just put them in a Google Drive,let them sit there, listen to
them in the car. Send them to friends,
colleagues, right, competitors, I don't care, right?
Send them to people who have no stake in the game to tell you
that it's good or not, right? So that's what I recommend.
Don't, don't officially start. Just start doing it.
(10:59):
Because the one thing that I don't teach and I can't teach
and I will never teach is podcasting.
You learn that on your own. I help with everything else.
Yeah, that makes sense. And, you know, and it's
interesting you would mention that because, you know, Matt and
I are used to speaking in front of rooms people on a
professional basis, been doing it for 30 years.
But it is different when you've got a microphone in front of you
(11:21):
and the cameras pointed in your face.
And it is the sole basis of the content is the opinions and and
information that you're sharing.You're not speaking to a
presentation, you're not speaking to a pitch.
You're talking about concepts. And it is a very different kind
of communication style. So yeah, as we've gone along,
(11:42):
which is what Episode 34, I think by the time we go and
publish this way smoother now that if you can we we take a
look at some of the earlier ones.
I sit there and cringe and kind of wish, hey, can I take that
one down and maybe like put thatin an archive somewhere.
But it it's also true that as our message got clearer about
(12:03):
the things we wanted to talk about, about the lessons we
wanted to teach, the conversations just became more
organic. So I get what you're saying from
that perspective of know what itis you want to be talking about,
what your message is at a business level and letting that
guide guide your opinion, guide the conversation that you're
when you're talking with someone.
(12:25):
So a little bit of rough around the edges then I guess that's
really not a problem then if you're going forward, if what
you're talking about is genuine to you as as the speaker.
There's no perfection here because you don't get to decide
what's good. There's a point it's it was
great that I started in music because when I started, I've
released a song and you would think that nobody listened to
(12:47):
it. No, everybody listened to it
that I knew. Like when I started a podcast,
hundreds of people listened to and I was 19 years old.
It was after that when I kept going that nobody listened
because I didn't know how to keep them going, right?
So that's what it is. Like the market still decides
like as you, as I go, I realize how much I don't know, right?
(13:11):
And I realize how much it reallyis on the market to decide
whether this is good or not. You know, so it's it's it's a
weird level of stress that founders put themselves under
where it's like, yeah, my business, my life has to be
good. My kids have to be in this
college, this my car has to be like this.
(13:32):
My business has to be this revenue, blah, blah, blah.
And my podcast has to have a million downloads.
And my view videos on LinkedIn need to get 1,000,000 views.
It's like, who cares, man? Like it's just so it doesn't
matter that much. Can you just make something and
we'll probably get this, but make something that people want
to watch. And that's really all we're
(13:54):
trying to do here, you know? So, But yeah, it's a very, very
common thing. I fight it everyday too, and
it's the reason why we're here, You know, perfectionism got you
to the here because you care so much.
But when it comes to content andpodcasting, it's creative art.
You know, people spend 1,000,000billions sometimes on creative
(14:16):
projects and there's no ROI. Just didn't work, right?
Look at look at most movies evermade right?
Yeah, I think our philosophy from the beginning, at least
mine was let's just get it out there, start doing it, and you
know it's going to improve over time.
We all know that, right? And then and also not feeling
like you have to go back and getrid of the early ones.
(14:38):
You know, it's like, honestly, how many people could go back
and listen for our first podcast?
I don't know, maybe they won't. Be surprised too because my
shows that I have that I just looked today the 2500 downloads
this month already from one of our shows I went back to their
first 10 episodes each of their first 10 all all of the 1st 10
(14:59):
have over 1000 downloads. That means that when they in the
first six months those first tenhad less than 100 downloads.
So that means over the course ofthe last four years 800 people
went back and listened right. So yes, you don't know.
Yeah. So yeah, keep it there, you
(15:20):
know? Would you recommend ever going
back and then just pulling some stuff if you just thought it
wasn't up to quality or just leave it, leave it up there.
No, Yeah, leave it up there. I just can't.
I mean, it depends, of course, right?
Is there like is there? Did you say something that now
in the future you shouldn't havesaid?
Very well. Yeah, You know, typically that's
(15:40):
not our domain, but it does happen.
Hey, listen, it's not to say I've never deleted a post, you
know, or I've never taken stuff down.
I have I've taken a lot of stuffdown because I switched gears,
but I just can't. This is not a really good
argument for it, I don't think just because, again, we don't
know. Yeah, I can see that, though
with respect to you, you were talking about as an
(16:01):
organization, you should understand your message.
What is it you're trying to say to people 1st?
And if that does change, and youknow, Matt and I work with some
smaller companies that have goneback to the drawing board a
couple of times and gone scorched earth with respect to
their offerings and rethought them and reformulated them over
again. And were they to have had
content up from a podcast from those original efforts, they may
(16:25):
be very inconsistent with what it is they're trying to say
today. So in those cases, yeah, I get
what you're saying. Go off, pull those down and
start afresh. But as long as it's consistent,
I get what you're saying. I've gone back.
You know, I, I, I look at our metrics on a lot of our episodes
and it's interesting to me how some of our earliest episodes
(16:47):
have had some of the most more interesting growth, growth.
When we get a, a guest on that spurs a lot of conversation and
a lot of downloads. That's when we'll often see a
corresponding spike with the oldepisodes as people go back in to
learn more about it because we've brought in new people and
they want to know more about us.So I, I get what you're saying
(17:08):
there. Leave it up.
It's part of your legacy. Yeah, why not?
It's my argument. I guess what I kind of switched
gears a little bit just in termsof applying this to software
sales or, or selling in the market in general, right?
We, we think that it's really valuable, but I'd like to hear
your thoughts around it because you know, as a seller, what it,
(17:31):
what is your ability to actuallyget a podcast in place?
Is it something that that you have to convince the company to
do? Is that something that you could
just start on your own? I think we have a couple people
that have done that as well, butwhat you know, what are the
benefits to a company or someonein sales to have a really good
podcast out there that they can refer to?
(17:52):
Yeah, this is great, a great question.
You know, there are, I'll start with the benefits, the the
complications. There's a lot there with doing
this, but you know, start with the benefit.
So a person who a salesperson, right, their job is to help,
right? So it's not to sell.
(18:12):
It's never to sell. If you're like Andy Elliott,
Grant Cardone, Dean Graziosi, OK, great.
Maybe you consider it selling. That's fine.
I don't mind. I love the word sales.
I love the word marketing. I use it all the time.
But in reality, it's just solving a problem, right?
So if that is the case, then howcan we accelerate?
(18:32):
What if we could help them before we even help them?
That's what a podcast can do because they can listen to this
episode and take any either of us and go, well, I got about an
hour of time down with these guys, you know, or, or myself or
one of you. And that adds an hour, you know,
(18:56):
so of time that on if you went right to that call, they would
have 0 minutes of you helping them, right.
So what this is called in the broader cultural context is
called a parasocial relationship.
This is the relationship you have with your favorite TV host
with, you know, at one time it was Howard Stern.
(19:17):
Now it it could be Joe Rogan. But you'd listen to so much of
somebody and then you believe, you think you believe you know
them because you do know them. They just don't know you.
So that's my argument for doing,for using it as if you are a
salesperson, you are never, evergoing to sell, ever.
Not at all right now, not to saythere's no call to action.
(19:40):
That could be to your e-mail list.
That could be the lead magnet. That could be to the next
episode comment like subscribe, follow, write, maybe even a book
of call maybe. But for the most part, there's
no selling involved too. So, so like just to paint the
picture, you're going to get on a camera, you're going to talk,
people are going to take your advice if it's good.
(20:01):
And then when they get to the call, they go, Oh yeah, I
already know, like. We're going to work together.
I just want to get through the, let's just go through the
details, right? So that's what a podcast can do
for the benefits. So you were saying though that
the complications getting there,it's easy to say there's a lot
of pop up sell there, a lot of positives, but it can be
(20:22):
complicated to get there. What are some of the
complications people might need to prepare themselves for?
Yeah. I mean, if you're in sales and
you are going to start a podcast, you buying into it is
is step one. Of course, that is not the final
boss. The boss is the final boss,
right. So if you're using any company
(20:44):
time, any company resources. Now we're doing a different
thing. If you want to start your
hobbyist podcast, that's fine. They're not they don't care.
Talk about sports all day long in your man cave with your
friends, right? Just don't say anything to
political. But if you're going to do that,
great. But if you're going to use, you
know, company resources now we have to go.
It has to be leadership. It's not even just a manager
(21:07):
above you to OK, I mean, we haveCFO decisions that have to
happen now. And like, why does this one guy
think he's going to just do a podcast when all the other guys
are hitting phones or what have you, right?
So the complications come when you don't get the buy in.
And I wish it was enough for just you, the salesperson to buy
into podcasting and video content and LinkedIn.
(21:30):
I've never seen it work out where that's enough to really do
it to the extent it needs to be done to actually work.
So this is I wouldn't even get, I mean, I would go to the CEO if
you can. I would start with the
marketers. Because if you have somebody in
there who believes that, then now we have a path, right?
Because really what you're doingis your marketing.
You're not selling right, So youhave to get buy in from
(21:54):
marketing to go, Hey, I'm makingyour life 10 times easier.
I'm creating a ton of content for you guys.
I'm even putting myself out there as the face of this brand
and I'm taking zero extra equityfor it.
I just need some resources and if you guys can show, hey, how
this is going to help you, right, then you could show how
it's going to help us as a company and then I can get that
(22:14):
buy in. You know, so this is a
complicated process. This is this is off, this is
politics, this is navigating people, you know, and I'm not
saying it's easy. If you want the Fast forward,
most people who I've seen have ended up just leaving the
company if their podcast is thatgood or was that good, doing it
(22:34):
on their own and starting their own business.
But that's just what I've seen. I'm not saying I haven't seen
intra company podcast. I've just seen a lot of them hit
a wall for one reason or another.
And here's a here's the last one.
If you leave that company. Hey, that's their podcast,
right? Now yours now.
You got to start it all over again, right?
So I'm not saying don't do it. At its best, it's incredible.
(22:57):
At its worst, it's may piss a couple of people off.
Yeah, I, I. Can see how it'd be really
confusing or complicated once these threatens start getting
legal involved and then you know, jar or it's like everyone
wants to say, you know, I'm not saying what is actually being
put out there right on behalf ofthe company and that can get
very confusing. I mean, what one of the things I
(23:18):
think would be super beneficial and probably easier sell
internally would be let's get our customers on and talk with
them about what the benefits they are, how they start using
the product well, what they wantto do, etcetera, because
everyone wants good case studiesand customer stories, right?
And a lot of times I've seen them, you know, you get a video
(23:40):
crew in and you spend a whole day in a room and then you know,
you're you're doing these littlesnippets and they're all spice
and very professional. But I think there's something to
be said for just the the naturalness of a podcast and
that discussion, right? That's where I think the round
tables and on, you know, at conferences and things are great
(24:01):
people like that. But what are your thoughts about
that as as an angle in terms of,you know, a way to kind of pitch
this and start a podcast for a company?
Yeah, I mean it doesn't. Have to be a podcast if it's
just podcast style. That's really what you're
saying, right? I mean, this is what we do.
We had a founder the other day, private lending company and
they're like, we just want to get in the studio and record.
(24:22):
We don't want to do a whole podcast.
And I'm like, OK, what are you doing this for?
They're like, we want video for our meta ads.
We just want video versions of of our ads.
And I'm like, OK, so then you know, me and my GM, we both came
in and we directed two of their employees on camera and we did
the direction and they were the talent and it was awesome.
(24:42):
They have great ads. They have 10/20/30 clips for
social media. And then next quarter come back
and do it again. Doesn't have to be a podcast,
right? And this is a service we have
now because this happened so many times where I was going,
yeah, guys, this doesn't make sense.
Like we don't have a podcast here.
Why are we going to kid ourselves?
Let's just do podcast style content.
(25:04):
And to your point about client interviews, that's what I call
them. You know, Alex or Mosey will
call them success interviews. Everybody's kind of got their
word for it. Case study.
Nobody cares about case studies.Like you'll never find somebody
go that case study was wow. Like, no, they don't.
It's not the case studies, not for them to consume the case
(25:24):
study, the case studies for themto know you're not scamming
people. OK, I know that guy.
He's a client. OK, great.
You're legit now in my eyes, right?
What we do is we create client interviews.
The client interview does not talk about the service, It
doesn't talk about the product. It sits the client down and
(25:45):
goes. So how did you feel before you
went into this? For my clients, it would be my
first question is why did you start a podcast?
It has nothing to do with me, right?
Because the second has to do with me.
Now. We're off now.
We lost the magic. The magic is the emotion the
client had before the transformation they went through
(26:08):
and then the emotion they have now because that's what people
resonate with. So I don't care if it's a
podcast. I don't care if you're, you
know, hiring pigeons to send. Letters in the mail.
They're just, is there some kindof emotion there that in
transformation, that's what people really are attracted to.
I mean, that's why podcasts workso well, because this is just us
(26:30):
talking, of course, a little bitof formatting.
But I, if I didn't really do this, I couldn't do this.
You know, I mean, even actors struggle to act.
So you can't, you can't make up a podcast.
You can't fake it for an hour. It just doesn't happen.
It's very real. And what about the?
Cadence of podcasts and just theregularity of releases and
(26:52):
things. Is there a sweet spot for that
or is it just a matter of just being consistent with whatever
you time frame you choose? This is a good.
One, I'll just make it quick. No, there's just the averages.
That's all I can give you. Like an average podcast is
weekly. An average length of podcast is
30 minutes. From what I've seen it's very
either this is what I was at, either start a podcast or don't.
(27:17):
Like. Start a weekly podcast where you
really care and you're going to put the time and you're taking
them on a journey every single week.
Or do what we just mentioned with which is podcast style
content. It's not to say don't do a
webinar here and there or AQ anda here and there, but don't call
it a podcast, right? Like either commit or don't
commit. That's my answer to how many you
(27:39):
should release. Yeah, I, I.
Think I get what you're saying there from that perspective.
And Matt and I are really big fans and supporters of the
concept of storytelling with respect to how we want to train
folks to be able to engage with with customers and prospects in
the sales context. And when you're talking about
those success stories, I mean that's what you got going on
(28:01):
there. You're you're delivering a lot
of the same things like to your point came out of the case
study, but you're delivering them in a storytelling capacity
where the emotional buy in is already there because you're
hearing it straight from the source of the person that
received that benefit do. You think?
That. Is an opportunity that a lot of
(28:22):
software companies are are sort of under utilizing as it sounds
to me like I don't know of a lotof companies that are doing
that. They're doing the webinars, like
you said, they're doing the Q and as.
But that storytelling opportunity, I don't know if
there's a lot of folks taking advantage of that.
Well, in my opinion, software companies are focused on the
thing that doesn't really matter, which is the freaking
software. OK, because as a consumer, I.
(28:44):
Don't give a shit about your software as a customer.
I don't care like I don't care if Netflix tomorrow goes hey
guys, we're going to rebrand we're going to call it Zubu, all
right, It doesn't have does it have the show that I what is it?
What is the reality show that everybody love island?
Does it have Love Island? Like I don't care, man.
(29:07):
Like Netflix is like, hey, you know, and I know this is not a
software or whatever, people aregoing to get mad, but imagine
who knows, Even QuickBooks. Hey, Intuit goes.
Hey guys, we bought QuickBooks. I don't.
Care. It doesn't matter to me.
Like, does my QuickBooks work? Yes.
OK, great. Call it whatever you want.
Do whatever features you want. It just doesn't matter.
(29:30):
So I think a lot of times this happens in all areas of business
forever, right? And always, right.
The lawyer thinks that people give a shit about his billboard
and the name and that we don't care.
Can you solve my problem? Are you going to get me my
money? Right.
So yes, the answer is yes, less software, more stories, people
(29:52):
using the software to achieve this result.
You know, like I've done hundreds of thousands of revenue
and like, you know, thousands and thousands of transactions
or, you know, revisions a month,for example, using the the
client portal that I have, they should come to me and be like,
hey, we saw you're doing like all this revenue through the
(30:13):
portal. Do you mind, do you mind just
coming on our podcast and just you just tell us about your
business? Don't even have to tell us about
the portal. And through that interview, I'm
going to be like, this portal isawesome.
And you know, there's a couple things that I wish would change,
but you know, for the most part,that's why I've been using you
guys for this long. Like I'm going to give the
testimonial without you even asking.
So that's always my stick of like, do you don't have to talk
(30:37):
about really, you don't have to talk about what it is.
Just talk about who you are, talk about who they are and talk
the customer and talk about whatthey do and then that's it.
Just stay in those lanes. You know, I'm not saying don't
post the we got this award. That's fine.
That's a good clout, good click baits, good PR.
(31:00):
That should be 1 to 2% of it. You know I mean D.
Script did this brilliantly, youknow, podcast editing suite.
They just had their ads are justI didn't have a podcast because
it sucked to edit. Now I do.
I use D script to edit. It's just the most mindless,
simple ad in the world, and people love it because it's just
(31:20):
real, you know? So because that's them they see.
Themselves as that guy sitting at organic, so I don't want to.
Edit Now here's the thing in D script, by the way, guys and
Riverside, you have to edit. You are editing.
We can call it something else ifyou want.
That's why I don't edit anything.
I'm not an editor, right? But it doesn't matter.
It gets you to sign up and pay the 15 a month and now you're
in, right? And three years go by and you're
(31:41):
like, Oh my God, I'm still usingthis thing.
But you know, what's the alternative?
But yeah, I think just so many people, little bit of a rant,
but I feel like a rant that needs to be said is like, stop
focusing on your product. Focus on the people using the.
Product, yeah. Makes sense for the.
Yeah, just for for the finishingof the podcast and the editing,
(32:06):
just the production and all thatstuff.
I think Kevin does an amazing job for us.
I know it's a lot of time and effort, right.
I think one of the benefits though, beyond a nice polished
podcast that is getting good traction is then all the other
video content potentially that you can then repurpose, right?
Because video is kind of king now on all the platforms.
(32:28):
You know, the trick is finding the little snippets or things
that are compelling enough, you know, that I think are cohesive
and, and convey a message. And of course the AI in these
platforms is going to do it for you, which doesn't give you a
little head start. But what what are your
recommendations, you know, afteryou get the podcast going, how
do you see people actually be able to leverage that across
(32:50):
different platforms or differentmarketing campaigns or to really
extend the reach and value of it?
Yeah, Yeah, this is. Good so you're you know, if you
do a podcast, you have a contentsystem because just by it the
nature of it being a in this case let's talk about video
podcasts. You have audio, you have video,
(33:12):
you have graphic design, you have text, you have text in the
form of transcription do whatever you want with that
transcription. You got an e-mail list, you got
take 100 episodes, put it together, there's a there's a
digital product or even a book so on just by you starting it.
It is a content what we call system or ecosystem, right?
(33:33):
And So what we do is in for our business and also for our
clients is all we do is look at how much we spend on the podcast
year over year. And then revenue?
Right. And then that's it.
We don't do any other marketing,right?
It's LinkedIn, YouTube, podcast ecosystem.
So yeah, it can do whatever you want it to do.
(33:55):
It can be all of your LinkedIn content.
It could be all of your e-mail content, or at least most
because you're curating it, right?
I don't just release a transcript to my e-mail list and
be like, hey guys, here's your transcript.
Like I don't even drop the episode.
I weave the story in. So then at the end of the e-mail
it says, and if you want more onhow to do this, then it's in the
(34:17):
episode, right? So it's ways to the way I look
at it, the podcast is a product that you create like for SSO,
the podcast is your first tier, it's your free tier.
Then above that, free. Tier is like a discovery call
and then above that is an engagement or maybe a an audit
or something that's one time andthen one time and above that's
(34:37):
recurring and then you know, so that's how I look at it.
It sure, it's a content ecosystem, right?
It's an asset that you own, but it's also a product that that
essentially you sell. And what the listeners do is
they don't give you their money yet, but they give you their
time. So that's how I treat it that
that was an. Interesting epiphany.
(34:57):
They are investing. They're.
Investing. They're paying us with their
time, which is absolutely true when today time is probably one
of the one of the most valuable commodities there is in business
and that's why it has. To be good because you don't
have a second chance, right? That's why it has to be
specific, you know? That's why I don't go on
(35:19):
podcasts talking about things I don't know unless I expect to
get nobody to listen to it because it's just it's there's
it's everything now life is economy.
It's just everything's insane. There's content everywhere.
Phone, you know, lot most peopleare watching podcasts not on
their phones on their TV. And so it's in.
(35:41):
That's a crazy data point, but that's what's happening when we
say you're competing. You're 1 they're.
One click away from Tim Ferriss,A billion downloads.
They're one click away from Rogan Trillion downloads.
Like they're one click away fromclicking off your shit to an
entertainment thing. So it has to be.
Good. Like the competition is not just
(36:03):
your competitors who have a boring podcast.
It's like everything you know, and that's tough.
So that's really where the strategy comes in.
Again, it nothing guarantees thelisteners, at least guarantees
that we have something that people we already have some
doubt and I know people want to know about this.
Yeah, I think we. Consistently break the cardinal
(36:25):
rule of the 30 minute podcast because ours ours tend to go 45.
It's an average. Why would we?
Want to be average, right? It's fine.
Yeah, yeah. It's an average, not a rule.
There's no rule it's. It is a.
It is challenging though, because we do get very engaging
people on. We've asked a lot of questions.
I think we could be a little bitmore succinct in some of our
podcasts. But at the same time, you know,
(36:47):
it's if someone wants to listen to it all, it's all there.
If they want buzz out early, they can as well.
So yeah. And you do the clips.
You have the other forms of it, you know, like I just, I do so
many clips because I know that there's so much value baked into
episodes and people just don't, most people don't have the time
and a very select few of them do.
And those are my podcast listeners and my YouTube people,
(37:08):
you know my my Subs on YouTube. But that's fine.
I consider you a podcast listener.
If you just watch a one minute clip, that's you count, you
know, that's fine. You're a podcast listener for a
minute. That's totally cool with me.
I did my job. So when should people?
Reach out to you like when they're just considering this or
where they already have a plan. You mentioned, you know, having
(37:28):
some brand strategy already, butcan they talk to you beforehand
and kind of get things set up? Yeah.
So we actually have a program for this for to test drive
podcasting, right? It's called the Ghost Podcast.
It's a podcast without a podcast, you know, And so we've
been doing this for almost a year now where we'll come in
(37:49):
with you, do a content strategy because you might not have one
or you may want to refresh it. Then we record for an hour or
two, then we turn that our team goes and turns that into clips
for you. So you really get to test drive
the podcast, right? So if you don't want to do a
whole 1, then we have that. And this is not just us, by the
way, like many, many people havesimilar programs.
I'm not saying use us, use somebody that you know, like and
(38:12):
trust, but we have we designed that because we don't, we do
want you to spend some money andtime to know that you don't want
to do it too, because you don't want to get a year in and be
like, this wasn't right, right. So let's let's test fast.
So then we can start fast, if that makes sense.
And then for, OK, we're going tolaunch a whole podcast and we
(38:32):
have predictable revenue, right?We know where our next
customer's coming from. Our team is, is pretty solid,
right? There's no like massive hires we
have to make in the next 6 months most likely.
Yeah. Then that's normally the time,
you know, because you already have something great.
We're just going to start to amplify it.
Excellent. I get that whole thing.
I mean, like, like I said at thebeginning of the podcast, the
(38:55):
learning curve's there and you can bump into sharp edges on the
furniture very, very easily along the way.
And I think Matt and I got luckythat we kind of found our
formula, our voice and what we wanted to say very early on
could have very easily gone downa completely different path and
could have not turned out as well for us.
So I totally get what you're saying.
(39:16):
So I would encourage people if they aren't sure about the
things you just talked about, what is my voice?
What is it we're trying to say? How do we want to say it that
reaching out to somebody like you, you and particularly would
be a great first step and with respect to properly executing a
podcast, making it land first time right way, yeah.
And not knowing. Or knowing that you're that it's
(39:39):
not right for you is equally as important as knowing that
exactly. Yeah, we and.
Sales, we call that qualifying out.
If it's not an opportunity, walkaway somewhere.
Else. I love it.
I love it. Well, I think we.
Discovered early on, at first it's like, we'll just wing it.
We can talk and blah, blah, blah.
And it, it was OK, but it, it's sort of meanders, it kind of
(40:01):
repeats itself. And so we finally discovered
that you're having some sort of outline to keep you kind of a
little bit focused, a little bitidea of what you wanted to cover
right was always important. Letting it go where where it
does naturally in the conversation is always.
Yeah, and you know. Yeah.
Less is more. You always have another episode
(40:22):
to think that every week for an hour, people are going to be
able to take this information and then like apply it is
insane. So you know, you're when you're
in school, you're in school 8 hours a day and you barely even
really learn anything. So it's only after that you
learn. So it's just that's how I look
at it. I look at it as touch points.
(40:43):
I look at it, how can I say whatI normally say, but in a little
bit slightly different way and how can I present it
differently? And you know, that's marketing.
You guys are really dial. You know, you guys are sales
pros. You know, in marketing, it's
saying the same thing in 1000 different ways.
So you're you, but you're on it.You know, you guys are doing it.
You got a good thing going. You got the Co host thing.
(41:03):
All of our the biggest shows areCo hosted.
So if that tells you anything, you're in the right track there
and then yeah just have fun withit.
That's my that's my thing cuz you know, now don't worry about
the listeners. You guys got to come back every
week and be fired up for it. So.
And we do we we. Really get a lot out of this
personally. It's it's not only lightning.
(41:24):
We learn from all of our guests.I've learned listening to you
here on this call today, not only do we learn from all of our
guests, we learn from each other.
And and for me, it's pretty inspirational and it and it's it
gets us jazzed up to go out and solve new problems with people
over the course of the week. So yeah, totally from that.
You don't know. I'll just leave you guys with
that. It's like, you know, I was a
(41:45):
mechanic. I was fixing people's cars.
Like I had no idea that I would do this.
So, you know, and imagine the people that are listening to
this, they already have, you know, I was 1819 years old, they
already have their career. Like imagine what the a podcast
could do that you just don't even know, you know, So I didn't
(42:07):
know and now I'm here doing this.
So it all started with me starting a podcast in my parents
garage. So, you know, that's how it goes
is all great. Inventions and success stories
are started in mom and dad's garage, and dad was like.
Once you leave, you're not coming back.
So make sure this podcast thing is going to work.
And I was like, OK dude, struggle for 20 years.
(42:28):
Then an overnight success. Exactly.
All that man. Love it.
Well, I really. Appreciate you coming on the
call today, Ryan. I always enjoy having
conversations with you, which iswhy you and I have had such a
fun time talking today and talking when we've not been on
the podcast together. If someone does want to reach
out to you now that they've listened, all the things we've
talked about today, we've talkedabout, you know, having the
right messaging, having the right start, having the right
(42:50):
structure. What?
Would be there What? Would be the best way for them
to reach out to you? What's the best way to contact
you? Yeah, sure.
So. You know, it probably says it,
but it's Ryan R Sullivan. If you use the R, you'll find me
faster. If you do Ryan Sullivan, I'm on
like page 2 of Google Now, so I'm like really working my way.
There's a lot of Ryan Sullivan'sout there, but use the R you'll
(43:10):
find me and that's how you can connect.
I mean, LinkedIn is my #1 platform, but you know, if we
can, we can put the links to to that, the website and my
Calendly. I always leave my Calendly out
there. If you are in that position, you
know, you're a business, typically 6 to normally 7
figures is where we work best because we have that time and
(43:31):
money to allocate towards the podcast.
If you're in that position, you're like, I know I'm going
to, I know we're going to start one.
Maybe we need some help. Yeah, you can grab a call with
me. Well, fantastic, we'll make.
Sure. We put all that stuff down in
the description for all the different platforms that we're
on that support that they'll be right down in the episode
information. They can click on that, come
over and start their conversation with you and get
(43:54):
their podcast launched the rightway.
There you go. Make sure to subscribe to these
guys too. Absolutely yes.
Subscribe. Comment.
You know, all the algorithms, all the goodness there.
That's what we want. So folks, that does bring us to
the end of our episode today. I hope you got as much out of
this as I did. I do want to thank my Co host,
(44:14):
Matt Long. Matt, anything you'd like to go
in and end the show with before we move on to the sunset?
No. I just love this content.
It's a little different twist than what we usually talk about,
but I think it's been really interesting diving into just
different aspects of just the sales and just your just your
(44:35):
experience, I should say, you know, as a person, as a
professional, all these things, you know, come into play.
And so it's just really fascinating to to dissect this a
little bit further. So thanks so much, Ryan.
It was really a pleasure. Thank you too.
Yeah. Seriously, really appreciate it
guys. I'm I'm learning from you guys
too. You know, I'm just I stay in my
podcast lane. So yeah, thanks, Matt.
Thanks, Kevin. Really appreciate you guys.
(44:56):
It's been a been a pleasure to be on here and thanks to the
folks. Have been watching and listening
today to our podcast. Folks, if you like what you
heard, please subscribe, like, follow, comment on the podcast.
We'd love to see you here again.We'll be back again next week
with another guest. If you'd like to go to our
website and buy our book, pleasego.
So there there'll be a link to do that in the description of
(45:18):
this episode as well. And that way you can follow up
on the methodology that Matt andI like to follow and use to help
our many clients out there in the world.
But until then, folks, thank youfor being here.
We'll see you again next week. Take care.
Welcome to software sales simplified move to success, the
podcast for sellers that want toget better at selling enterprise
software's. Whether you are new to the
industry or an old pro, please make our podcast your one stop
shop for the latest and greatestin insights and news with
respect to enterprise software sales.
I'm Kevin Donville and I'm joined by my illustrious
(00:30):
comrade, Matt Long. Matt and I together have over 50
years of experience with professional software, sales,
deployments, implementations andconsulting, and we're very, very
glad that you joined us here today.
Matt, how are you doing on this wonderful Friday?
I'm doing great. I I feel like I've joined the
Communist Party though, now thatI'm your comrade.
(00:52):
I said, comrade, I'm, I meant tosay colleague.
It's interesting how my brain went there.
It wasn't quite where I was planning to go, but does follow
an interesting kind of metamorphosis in my brain.
But no, I, I was reflecting, youknow, in preparation for this
week's podcast, you and I were talking and we talk a lot about
what goes on with the, with our efforts to getting our podcast
(01:14):
together. And, you know, when we first
made the decision to go forward with our podcast, there's a lot
of noise out there trying to sort through that.
So today we've got a guest on here with us who is an expert at
all things related to podcast, Ryan Sullivan.
Ryan, how are you doing today, Sir?
It's good to have you with us. I'm doing fantastic.
(01:35):
I make podcasts and I'm on a podcast.
So I mean, this is it. This is why I exist.
Hopefully the the preparation for this one is easier than you
make preparing for your. Own, you mean?
Well, I don't prepare at all, soyeah, this is much easier.
This sounds like us. We don't.
We don't do put any preparation in together.
We just get on and we wing it together every single week.
(01:57):
But no, all things, all things being jokes here, Ryan, you've
got a great reputation in the market.
You've got a wonderful followingwith respect to the people that
you have educated in how to do podcasts and make them better,
make them a significant portion of their business.
But for those who are listening to the podcast who don't know
(02:17):
you, could you take a moment, kind of expand a little bit upon
that, tell people who you are, what you do, and how you do it?
Yeah, So appreciate it, by the way, having me, both of you.
But Kevin, you know, we had connected a while ago, so it's
awesome to come full circle and actually be able to be on the
podcast. So I'm grateful for it.
I appreciate it. Yeah, in terms of what I do in
the most simple way possible, music, podcasts and creative
(02:40):
strategies, that's what my kind of life has formed into.
Those are in the form of creating podcast strategies for
businesses. Sometimes it moves beyond that,
where I'm creating a full content strategy that would be
involving all of the content that the business would make.
That's at least organic meaning,like not paid, right.
(03:01):
So that's what I do. I basically create strategies.
You know, I, I'm in the ideas game.
Sometimes they're really, reallygood and they hit, and sometimes
they're really, really good and they don't hit.
And so that's how it goes. But yeah, music podcasts got a
bunch of random passions as well.
But that's a little bit about me.
No, it's, it's wonderful. And I, as I said before, I've
(03:22):
learned a lot by watching your material and consuming some of
your content and watching some of your podcasts and the people
you've talked with that I found it to be really enlightening
from the perspective of you say you're in the ideas game.
And when you're trying to start a business, ideas are important
to being able to identify the strategy that you want to come
up with when you go forward intothe marketplace.
(03:43):
With that being in mind, I know you do a lot of work with
individual podcasters, but also businesses, companies that want
to go forward into starting their own podcast presence.
What could like a small emergingor even a mid sized company hope
to gain by bringing a podcast tothe marketplace?
Yeah, it's a good question. I think the, you know, there's
(04:06):
that. There's also how are we going to
make any money from this thing, you know, which we will kind of
unpack throughout this, You know, why would you?
I mean, there's so many benefits.
I'll start with with the person asking the question.
If you're going to be on the podcast, that's going to get you
a lot of benefits in terms of like name recognition, you know,
PR thought leadership is the term that they throw out there,
(04:30):
whatever that means, you know, that's what you're going to get.
So there's that side, then there's the business side,
right? I mean, you're creating an
asset. So you know, what happens is
with marketing is you invest a certain amount of money, right?
And then the thing you get back is an asset.
Now an ad can be an asset, right?
But you need to pay Meta or pay these companies to run that ad.
(04:54):
And in the second you stop paying, they go, well, there
goes your asset. So the podcast is an asset not
because you invest in it, but because it appreciates over
time. Meaning that episode, the more
views it gets from the right people, the less it costs you to
make because the more money you make from, you know, through
(05:16):
attribution that one episode, soto say, right?
So when it comes to why to startone, there's a lot of reasons.
For the most part, I never have to really tell people why they
should. Normally they come to me with
the reason they think they want to start it and then we figure
out if it really makes sense. But the benefits or whatever you
(05:37):
choose them to be, and there area lot of them.
It's just you have to choose which ones you want and that
typically is not an easy thing to do.
You've helped a lot of companiesget started with their podcast.
What are what are some of the companies or the types of
companies that have come to you with that kind of approach and
saying, hey, we're thinking thismight be something to do?
(05:58):
Yeah. I mean, the biggest podcast that
we have ever worked on in terms of longest lasting plus, you
know, largest amount of listeners would be in the life
insurance niche, which if you would have told me that I
wouldn't have, I didn't know what life insurance was.
I mean, I would say I still really don't know, but you know,
I have a policy that's for sure.But no, from working on this
(06:19):
podcast, I know a lot more aboutit.
So there's life insurance, you know, I mean, the three, the
three segments that we, we really focus in on our law
finance and coaching, just because these are the segments
that there's really an accounting to, I'll throw in
there too, under that finance realm.
These are a lot of segments where there's not really that
(06:40):
much content out there about it,right?
And of course, personal finance,there's there's a lot, but what
we do is we with everybody, right, regardless of the
industry that comes to us, we go, what's your niche?
They tell us, then we go one layer below that.
And then that's really where we penetrate with the podcast.
So we find these kind of gaps, no matter the market.
(07:02):
Could be a SAS company that's solving a really niche issue and
coding, which is much better in my opinion.
The more niche, the better, right?
The smaller, the better. Or it could be something like,
you know what I've worked on my my own bank, you know, my
business banking platform that Iuse, you know, they approached
us and we helped them start a podcast.
And guess what? They didn't end up doing it.
(07:23):
It didn't make sense for them, right?
So it doesn't matter the size. This is a bank that has gotten
$100 million in funding and theydidn't end up doing it, right?
So it just, it depends on so many different factors.
But at least for me, the ones that are the biggest, the most
life changing, the largest impact have been really under
the finance umbrella. But don't get me wrong, I've
(07:44):
worked in hip hop, I've worked with mentalist, I've worked with
celebrities, I've done that stuff too.
It can work there too, just in adifferent.
Way so is the first step then ifsomeone turns around, you know,
small, medium business or even alarge business as you were
saying or an individual, they decide, OK, you know what I
think we need to go do a podcast.
I want to get a presence out there.
I want to go and start building my reputation Is that is that
(08:07):
first step of them identifying what their niche is?
Because maybe they don't know. And if they don't get that
right, is that a pit? Is that something a step they
could get wrong? Should they even attempt until
they really understand that? I mean, I suggest that you have
a business strategy, then I suggest that you have a brand
(08:27):
strategy, then I suggest that you have a marketing strategy,
and then I suggest that you havea marketing strategy.
And then I suggest that you havea content strategy is where I
would like the podcast to live. I really shouldn't be doing any
of that work above content strategy, at least for podcast
principles. And what I would do as a
strategist, you should have a branding person in house or
(08:49):
you're learning it as the CEO. You should have a business coach
who understands how we're scaling or somebody that knows
how to scale, right? If that's what you're doing,
meaning like you should have these other pieces in place
because it makes your life so much easier.
The one thing that I say over and over again is the worst
(09:09):
thing that you can have is a successful podcast and an
unsuccessful business. So you don't want to have all
these people obsessed with listening to you, but then you
don't really understand your core offer and your core message
and what you really sell. So yes, the answer is that's the
(09:29):
long answer. The quick answer is yes, have
that figured out ideally. I'm also not against you
figuring out as you go. I mean a lot of some of our
clients have done that. We had clients who had maybe 10
clients when they started their podcast and now they have 6 to
700 clients and now it's a 7 figure business.
So I have arguments each way, but I would like to for, you
(09:51):
know, anybody who's doing this under the umbrella of a business
to have a lot of those other foundational pieces.
How do you recommend that peopleget started?
I mean, it's like, do they just get a microphone and a camera
and go at it, or do they outsource?
Or does it really depend upon what resources they have and
what their appetite is? The annoying answer is it
(10:13):
depends, but the fun answer is yes, get started.
Like let's try this. Like, you know, if this was you
guys, I mean in Kevin, Kevin andI spoke, you know, a while back,
if you guys were starting the podcast and we weren't here
right now, I would go to Kevin and be like, hey, you know, get
you guys Co host, you know, try Co hosting, try doing solo and
(10:37):
then try doing an interview. The more of those you do, the
better. Don't do anything with them.
Just put them in a Google Drive,let them sit there, listen to
them in the car. Send them to friends,
colleagues, right, competitors, I don't care, right?
Send them to people who have no stake in the game to tell you
that it's good or not, right? So that's what I recommend.
Don't, don't officially start. Just start doing it.
(10:59):
Because the one thing that I don't teach and I can't teach
and I will never teach is podcasting.
You learn that on your own. I help with everything else.
Yeah, that makes sense. And, you know, and it's
interesting you would mention that because, you know, Matt and
I are used to speaking in front of rooms people on a
professional basis, been doing it for 30 years.
But it is different when you've got a microphone in front of you
(11:21):
and the cameras pointed in your face.
And it is the sole basis of the content is the opinions and and
information that you're sharing.You're not speaking to a
presentation, you're not speaking to a pitch.
You're talking about concepts. And it is a very different kind
of communication style. So yeah, as we've gone along,
(11:42):
which is what Episode 34, I think by the time we go and
publish this way smoother now that if you can we we take a
look at some of the earlier ones.
I sit there and cringe and kind of wish, hey, can I take that
one down and maybe like put thatin an archive somewhere.
But it it's also true that as our message got clearer about
(12:03):
the things we wanted to talk about, about the lessons we
wanted to teach, the conversations just became more
organic. So I get what you're saying from
that perspective of know what itis you want to be talking about,
what your message is at a business level and letting that
guide guide your opinion, guide the conversation that you're
when you're talking with someone.
(12:25):
So a little bit of rough around the edges then I guess that's
really not a problem then if you're going forward, if what
you're talking about is genuine to you as as the speaker.
There's no perfection here because you don't get to decide
what's good. There's a point it's it was
great that I started in music because when I started, I've
released a song and you would think that nobody listened to
(12:47):
it. No, everybody listened to it
that I knew. Like when I started a podcast,
hundreds of people listened to and I was 19 years old.
It was after that when I kept going that nobody listened
because I didn't know how to keep them going, right?
So that's what it is. Like the market still decides
like as you, as I go, I realize how much I don't know, right?
(13:11):
And I realize how much it reallyis on the market to decide
whether this is good or not. You know, so it's it's it's a
weird level of stress that founders put themselves under
where it's like, yeah, my business, my life has to be
good. My kids have to be in this
college, this my car has to be like this.
(13:32):
My business has to be this revenue, blah, blah, blah.
And my podcast has to have a million downloads.
And my view videos on LinkedIn need to get 1,000,000 views.
It's like, who cares, man? Like it's just so it doesn't
matter that much. Can you just make something and
we'll probably get this, but make something that people want
to watch. And that's really all we're
(13:54):
trying to do here, you know? So, But yeah, it's a very, very
common thing. I fight it everyday too, and
it's the reason why we're here, You know, perfectionism got you
to the here because you care so much.
But when it comes to content andpodcasting, it's creative art.
You know, people spend 1,000,000billions sometimes on creative
(14:16):
projects and there's no ROI. Just didn't work, right?
Look at look at most movies evermade right?
Yeah, I think our philosophy from the beginning, at least
mine was let's just get it out there, start doing it, and you
know it's going to improve over time.
We all know that, right? And then and also not feeling
like you have to go back and getrid of the early ones.
(14:38):
You know, it's like, honestly, how many people could go back
and listen for our first podcast?
I don't know, maybe they won't. Be surprised too because my
shows that I have that I just looked today the 2500 downloads
this month already from one of our shows I went back to their
first 10 episodes each of their first 10 all all of the 1st 10
(14:59):
have over 1000 downloads. That means that when they in the
first six months those first tenhad less than 100 downloads.
So that means over the course ofthe last four years 800 people
went back and listened right. So yes, you don't know.
Yeah. So yeah, keep it there, you
(15:20):
know? Would you recommend ever going
back and then just pulling some stuff if you just thought it
wasn't up to quality or just leave it, leave it up there.
No, Yeah, leave it up there. I just can't.
I mean, it depends, of course, right?
Is there like is there? Did you say something that now
in the future you shouldn't havesaid?
Very well. Yeah, You know, typically that's
(15:40):
not our domain, but it does happen.
Hey, listen, it's not to say I've never deleted a post, you
know, or I've never taken stuff down.
I have I've taken a lot of stuffdown because I switched gears,
but I just can't. This is not a really good
argument for it, I don't think just because, again, we don't
know. Yeah, I can see that, though
with respect to you, you were talking about as an
(16:01):
organization, you should understand your message.
What is it you're trying to say to people 1st?
And if that does change, and youknow, Matt and I work with some
smaller companies that have goneback to the drawing board a
couple of times and gone scorched earth with respect to
their offerings and rethought them and reformulated them over
again. And were they to have had
content up from a podcast from those original efforts, they may
(16:25):
be very inconsistent with what it is they're trying to say
today. So in those cases, yeah, I get
what you're saying. Go off, pull those down and
start afresh. But as long as it's consistent,
I get what you're saying. I've gone back.
You know, I, I, I look at our metrics on a lot of our episodes
and it's interesting to me how some of our earliest episodes
(16:47):
have had some of the most more interesting growth, growth.
When we get a, a guest on that spurs a lot of conversation and
a lot of downloads. That's when we'll often see a
corresponding spike with the oldepisodes as people go back in to
learn more about it because we've brought in new people and
they want to know more about us.So I, I get what you're saying
(17:08):
there. Leave it up.
It's part of your legacy. Yeah, why not?
It's my argument. I guess what I kind of switched
gears a little bit just in termsof applying this to software
sales or, or selling in the market in general, right?
We, we think that it's really valuable, but I'd like to hear
your thoughts around it because you know, as a seller, what it,
(17:31):
what is your ability to actuallyget a podcast in place?
Is it something that that you have to convince the company to
do? Is that something that you could
just start on your own? I think we have a couple people
that have done that as well, butwhat you know, what are the
benefits to a company or someonein sales to have a really good
podcast out there that they can refer to?
(17:52):
Yeah, this is great, a great question.
You know, there are, I'll start with the benefits, the the
complications. There's a lot there with doing
this, but you know, start with the benefit.
So a person who a salesperson, right, their job is to help,
right? So it's not to sell.
(18:12):
It's never to sell. If you're like Andy Elliott,
Grant Cardone, Dean Graziosi, OK, great.
Maybe you consider it selling. That's fine.
I don't mind. I love the word sales.
I love the word marketing. I use it all the time.
But in reality, it's just solving a problem, right?
So if that is the case, then howcan we accelerate?
(18:32):
What if we could help them before we even help them?
That's what a podcast can do because they can listen to this
episode and take any either of us and go, well, I got about an
hour of time down with these guys, you know, or, or myself or
one of you. And that adds an hour, you know,
(18:56):
so of time that on if you went right to that call, they would
have 0 minutes of you helping them, right.
So what this is called in the broader cultural context is
called a parasocial relationship.
This is the relationship you have with your favorite TV host
with, you know, at one time it was Howard Stern.
(19:17):
Now it it could be Joe Rogan. But you'd listen to so much of
somebody and then you believe, you think you believe you know
them because you do know them. They just don't know you.
So that's my argument for doing,for using it as if you are a
salesperson, you are never, evergoing to sell, ever.
Not at all right now, not to saythere's no call to action.
(19:40):
That could be to your e-mail list.
That could be the lead magnet. That could be to the next
episode comment like subscribe, follow, write, maybe even a book
of call maybe. But for the most part, there's
no selling involved too. So, so like just to paint the
picture, you're going to get on a camera, you're going to talk,
people are going to take your advice if it's good.
(20:01):
And then when they get to the call, they go, Oh yeah, I
already know, like. We're going to work together.
I just want to get through the, let's just go through the
details, right? So that's what a podcast can do
for the benefits. So you were saying though that
the complications getting there,it's easy to say there's a lot
of pop up sell there, a lot of positives, but it can be
(20:22):
complicated to get there. What are some of the
complications people might need to prepare themselves for?
Yeah. I mean, if you're in sales and
you are going to start a podcast, you buying into it is
is step one. Of course, that is not the final
boss. The boss is the final boss,
right. So if you're using any company
(20:44):
time, any company resources. Now we're doing a different
thing. If you want to start your
hobbyist podcast, that's fine. They're not they don't care.
Talk about sports all day long in your man cave with your
friends, right? Just don't say anything to
political. But if you're going to do that,
great. But if you're going to use, you
know, company resources now we have to go.
It has to be leadership. It's not even just a manager
(21:07):
above you to OK, I mean, we haveCFO decisions that have to
happen now. And like, why does this one guy
think he's going to just do a podcast when all the other guys
are hitting phones or what have you, right?
So the complications come when you don't get the buy in.
And I wish it was enough for just you, the salesperson to buy
into podcasting and video content and LinkedIn.
(21:30):
I've never seen it work out where that's enough to really do
it to the extent it needs to be done to actually work.
So this is I wouldn't even get, I mean, I would go to the CEO if
you can. I would start with the
marketers. Because if you have somebody in
there who believes that, then now we have a path, right?
Because really what you're doingis your marketing.
You're not selling right, So youhave to get buy in from
(21:54):
marketing to go, Hey, I'm makingyour life 10 times easier.
I'm creating a ton of content for you guys.
I'm even putting myself out there as the face of this brand
and I'm taking zero extra equityfor it.
I just need some resources and if you guys can show, hey, how
this is going to help you, right, then you could show how
it's going to help us as a company and then I can get that
(22:14):
buy in. You know, so this is a
complicated process. This is this is off, this is
politics, this is navigating people, you know, and I'm not
saying it's easy. If you want the Fast forward,
most people who I've seen have ended up just leaving the
company if their podcast is thatgood or was that good, doing it
(22:34):
on their own and starting their own business.
But that's just what I've seen. I'm not saying I haven't seen
intra company podcast. I've just seen a lot of them hit
a wall for one reason or another.
And here's a here's the last one.
If you leave that company. Hey, that's their podcast,
right? Now yours now.
You got to start it all over again, right?
So I'm not saying don't do it. At its best, it's incredible.
(22:57):
At its worst, it's may piss a couple of people off.
Yeah, I, I. Can see how it'd be really
confusing or complicated once these threatens start getting
legal involved and then you know, jar or it's like everyone
wants to say, you know, I'm not saying what is actually being
put out there right on behalf ofthe company and that can get
very confusing. I mean, what one of the things I
(23:18):
think would be super beneficial and probably easier sell
internally would be let's get our customers on and talk with
them about what the benefits they are, how they start using
the product well, what they wantto do, etcetera, because
everyone wants good case studiesand customer stories, right?
And a lot of times I've seen them, you know, you get a video
(23:40):
crew in and you spend a whole day in a room and then you know,
you're you're doing these littlesnippets and they're all spice
and very professional. But I think there's something to
be said for just the the naturalness of a podcast and
that discussion, right? That's where I think the round
tables and on, you know, at conferences and things are great
(24:01):
people like that. But what are your thoughts about
that as as an angle in terms of,you know, a way to kind of pitch
this and start a podcast for a company?
Yeah, I mean it doesn't. Have to be a podcast if it's
just podcast style. That's really what you're
saying, right? I mean, this is what we do.
We had a founder the other day, private lending company and
they're like, we just want to get in the studio and record.
(24:22):
We don't want to do a whole podcast.
And I'm like, OK, what are you doing this for?
They're like, we want video for our meta ads.
We just want video versions of of our ads.
And I'm like, OK, so then you know, me and my GM, we both came
in and we directed two of their employees on camera and we did
the direction and they were the talent and it was awesome.
(24:42):
They have great ads. They have 10/20/30 clips for
social media. And then next quarter come back
and do it again. Doesn't have to be a podcast,
right? And this is a service we have
now because this happened so many times where I was going,
yeah, guys, this doesn't make sense.
Like we don't have a podcast here.
Why are we going to kid ourselves?
Let's just do podcast style content.
(25:04):
And to your point about client interviews, that's what I call
them. You know, Alex or Mosey will
call them success interviews. Everybody's kind of got their
word for it. Case study.
Nobody cares about case studies.Like you'll never find somebody
go that case study was wow. Like, no, they don't.
It's not the case studies, not for them to consume the case
(25:24):
study, the case studies for themto know you're not scamming
people. OK, I know that guy.
He's a client. OK, great.
You're legit now in my eyes, right?
What we do is we create client interviews.
The client interview does not talk about the service, It
doesn't talk about the product. It sits the client down and
(25:45):
goes. So how did you feel before you
went into this? For my clients, it would be my
first question is why did you start a podcast?
It has nothing to do with me, right?
Because the second has to do with me.
Now. We're off now.
We lost the magic. The magic is the emotion the
client had before the transformation they went through
(26:08):
and then the emotion they have now because that's what people
resonate with. So I don't care if it's a
podcast. I don't care if you're, you
know, hiring pigeons to send. Letters in the mail.
They're just, is there some kindof emotion there that in
transformation, that's what people really are attracted to.
I mean, that's why podcasts workso well, because this is just us
(26:30):
talking, of course, a little bitof formatting.
But I, if I didn't really do this, I couldn't do this.
You know, I mean, even actors struggle to act.
So you can't, you can't make up a podcast.
You can't fake it for an hour. It just doesn't happen.
It's very real. And what about the?
Cadence of podcasts and just theregularity of releases and
(26:52):
things. Is there a sweet spot for that
or is it just a matter of just being consistent with whatever
you time frame you choose? This is a good.
One, I'll just make it quick. No, there's just the averages.
That's all I can give you. Like an average podcast is
weekly. An average length of podcast is
30 minutes. From what I've seen it's very
either this is what I was at, either start a podcast or don't.
(27:17):
Like. Start a weekly podcast where you
really care and you're going to put the time and you're taking
them on a journey every single week.
Or do what we just mentioned with which is podcast style
content. It's not to say don't do a
webinar here and there or AQ anda here and there, but don't call
it a podcast, right? Like either commit or don't
commit. That's my answer to how many you
(27:39):
should release. Yeah, I, I.
Think I get what you're saying there from that perspective.
And Matt and I are really big fans and supporters of the
concept of storytelling with respect to how we want to train
folks to be able to engage with with customers and prospects in
the sales context. And when you're talking about
those success stories, I mean that's what you got going on
(28:01):
there. You're you're delivering a lot
of the same things like to your point came out of the case
study, but you're delivering them in a storytelling capacity
where the emotional buy in is already there because you're
hearing it straight from the source of the person that
received that benefit do. You think?
That. Is an opportunity that a lot of
(28:22):
software companies are are sort of under utilizing as it sounds
to me like I don't know of a lotof companies that are doing
that. They're doing the webinars, like
you said, they're doing the Q and as.
But that storytelling opportunity, I don't know if
there's a lot of folks taking advantage of that.
Well, in my opinion, software companies are focused on the
thing that doesn't really matter, which is the freaking
software. OK, because as a consumer, I.
(28:44):
Don't give a shit about your software as a customer.
I don't care like I don't care if Netflix tomorrow goes hey
guys, we're going to rebrand we're going to call it Zubu, all
right, It doesn't have does it have the show that I what is it?
What is the reality show that everybody love island?
Does it have Love Island? Like I don't care, man.
(29:07):
Like Netflix is like, hey, you know, and I know this is not a
software or whatever, people aregoing to get mad, but imagine
who knows, Even QuickBooks. Hey, Intuit goes.
Hey guys, we bought QuickBooks. I don't.
Care. It doesn't matter to me.
Like, does my QuickBooks work? Yes.
OK, great. Call it whatever you want.
Do whatever features you want. It just doesn't matter.
(29:30):
So I think a lot of times this happens in all areas of business
forever, right? And always, right.
The lawyer thinks that people give a shit about his billboard
and the name and that we don't care.
Can you solve my problem? Are you going to get me my
money? Right.
So yes, the answer is yes, less software, more stories, people
(29:52):
using the software to achieve this result.
You know, like I've done hundreds of thousands of revenue
and like, you know, thousands and thousands of transactions
or, you know, revisions a month,for example, using the the
client portal that I have, they should come to me and be like,
hey, we saw you're doing like all this revenue through the
(30:13):
portal. Do you mind, do you mind just
coming on our podcast and just you just tell us about your
business? Don't even have to tell us about
the portal. And through that interview, I'm
going to be like, this portal isawesome.
And you know, there's a couple things that I wish would change,
but you know, for the most part,that's why I've been using you
guys for this long. Like I'm going to give the
testimonial without you even asking.
So that's always my stick of like, do you don't have to talk
(30:37):
about really, you don't have to talk about what it is.
Just talk about who you are, talk about who they are and talk
the customer and talk about whatthey do and then that's it.
Just stay in those lanes. You know, I'm not saying don't
post the we got this award. That's fine.
That's a good clout, good click baits, good PR.
(31:00):
That should be 1 to 2% of it. You know I mean D.
Script did this brilliantly, youknow, podcast editing suite.
They just had their ads are justI didn't have a podcast because
it sucked to edit. Now I do.
I use D script to edit. It's just the most mindless,
simple ad in the world, and people love it because it's just
(31:20):
real, you know? So because that's them they see.
Themselves as that guy sitting at organic, so I don't want to.
Edit Now here's the thing in D script, by the way, guys and
Riverside, you have to edit. You are editing.
We can call it something else ifyou want.
That's why I don't edit anything.
I'm not an editor, right? But it doesn't matter.
It gets you to sign up and pay the 15 a month and now you're
in, right? And three years go by and you're
(31:41):
like, Oh my God, I'm still usingthis thing.
But you know, what's the alternative?
But yeah, I think just so many people, little bit of a rant,
but I feel like a rant that needs to be said is like, stop
focusing on your product. Focus on the people using the.
Product, yeah. Makes sense for the.
Yeah, just for for the finishingof the podcast and the editing,
(32:06):
just the production and all thatstuff.
I think Kevin does an amazing job for us.
I know it's a lot of time and effort, right.
I think one of the benefits though, beyond a nice polished
podcast that is getting good traction is then all the other
video content potentially that you can then repurpose, right?
Because video is kind of king now on all the platforms.
(32:28):
You know, the trick is finding the little snippets or things
that are compelling enough, you know, that I think are cohesive
and, and convey a message. And of course the AI in these
platforms is going to do it for you, which doesn't give you a
little head start. But what what are your
recommendations, you know, afteryou get the podcast going, how
do you see people actually be able to leverage that across
(32:50):
different platforms or differentmarketing campaigns or to really
extend the reach and value of it?
Yeah, Yeah, this is. Good so you're you know, if you
do a podcast, you have a contentsystem because just by it the
nature of it being a in this case let's talk about video
podcasts. You have audio, you have video,
(33:12):
you have graphic design, you have text, you have text in the
form of transcription do whatever you want with that
transcription. You got an e-mail list, you got
take 100 episodes, put it together, there's a there's a
digital product or even a book so on just by you starting it.
It is a content what we call system or ecosystem, right?
(33:33):
And So what we do is in for our business and also for our
clients is all we do is look at how much we spend on the podcast
year over year. And then revenue?
Right. And then that's it.
We don't do any other marketing,right?
It's LinkedIn, YouTube, podcast ecosystem.
So yeah, it can do whatever you want it to do.
(33:55):
It can be all of your LinkedIn content.
It could be all of your e-mail content, or at least most
because you're curating it, right?
I don't just release a transcript to my e-mail list and
be like, hey guys, here's your transcript.
Like I don't even drop the episode.
I weave the story in. So then at the end of the e-mail
it says, and if you want more onhow to do this, then it's in the
(34:17):
episode, right? So it's ways to the way I look
at it, the podcast is a product that you create like for SSO,
the podcast is your first tier, it's your free tier.
Then above that, free. Tier is like a discovery call
and then above that is an engagement or maybe a an audit
or something that's one time andthen one time and above that's
(34:37):
recurring and then you know, so that's how I look at it.
It sure, it's a content ecosystem, right?
It's an asset that you own, but it's also a product that that
essentially you sell. And what the listeners do is
they don't give you their money yet, but they give you their
time. So that's how I treat it that
that was an. Interesting epiphany.
(34:57):
They are investing. They're.
Investing. They're paying us with their
time, which is absolutely true when today time is probably one
of the one of the most valuable commodities there is in business
and that's why it has. To be good because you don't
have a second chance, right? That's why it has to be
specific, you know? That's why I don't go on
(35:19):
podcasts talking about things I don't know unless I expect to
get nobody to listen to it because it's just it's there's
it's everything now life is economy.
It's just everything's insane. There's content everywhere.
Phone, you know, lot most peopleare watching podcasts not on
their phones on their TV. And so it's in.
(35:41):
That's a crazy data point, but that's what's happening when we
say you're competing. You're 1 they're.
One click away from Tim Ferriss,A billion downloads.
They're one click away from Rogan Trillion downloads.
Like they're one click away fromclicking off your shit to an
entertainment thing. So it has to be.
Good. Like the competition is not just
(36:03):
your competitors who have a boring podcast.
It's like everything you know, and that's tough.
So that's really where the strategy comes in.
Again, it nothing guarantees thelisteners, at least guarantees
that we have something that people we already have some
doubt and I know people want to know about this.
Yeah, I think we. Consistently break the cardinal
(36:25):
rule of the 30 minute podcast because ours ours tend to go 45.
It's an average. Why would we?
Want to be average, right? It's fine.
Yeah, yeah. It's an average, not a rule.
There's no rule it's. It is a.
It is challenging though, because we do get very engaging
people on. We've asked a lot of questions.
I think we could be a little bitmore succinct in some of our
podcasts. But at the same time, you know,
(36:47):
it's if someone wants to listen to it all, it's all there.
If they want buzz out early, they can as well.
So yeah. And you do the clips.
You have the other forms of it, you know, like I just, I do so
many clips because I know that there's so much value baked into
episodes and people just don't, most people don't have the time
and a very select few of them do.
And those are my podcast listeners and my YouTube people,
(37:08):
you know my my Subs on YouTube. But that's fine.
I consider you a podcast listener.
If you just watch a one minute clip, that's you count, you
know, that's fine. You're a podcast listener for a
minute. That's totally cool with me.
I did my job. So when should people?
Reach out to you like when they're just considering this or
where they already have a plan. You mentioned, you know, having
(37:28):
some brand strategy already, butcan they talk to you beforehand
and kind of get things set up? Yeah.
So we actually have a program for this for to test drive
podcasting, right? It's called the Ghost Podcast.
It's a podcast without a podcast, you know, And so we've
been doing this for almost a year now where we'll come in
(37:49):
with you, do a content strategy because you might not have one
or you may want to refresh it. Then we record for an hour or
two, then we turn that our team goes and turns that into clips
for you. So you really get to test drive
the podcast, right? So if you don't want to do a
whole 1, then we have that. And this is not just us, by the
way, like many, many people havesimilar programs.
I'm not saying use us, use somebody that you know, like and
(38:12):
trust, but we have we designed that because we don't, we do
want you to spend some money andtime to know that you don't want
to do it too, because you don't want to get a year in and be
like, this wasn't right, right. So let's let's test fast.
So then we can start fast, if that makes sense.
And then for, OK, we're going tolaunch a whole podcast and we
(38:32):
have predictable revenue, right?We know where our next
customer's coming from. Our team is, is pretty solid,
right? There's no like massive hires we
have to make in the next 6 months most likely.
Yeah. Then that's normally the time,
you know, because you already have something great.
We're just going to start to amplify it.
Excellent. I get that whole thing.
I mean, like, like I said at thebeginning of the podcast, the
(38:55):
learning curve's there and you can bump into sharp edges on the
furniture very, very easily along the way.
And I think Matt and I got luckythat we kind of found our
formula, our voice and what we wanted to say very early on
could have very easily gone downa completely different path and
could have not turned out as well for us.
So I totally get what you're saying.
(39:16):
So I would encourage people if they aren't sure about the
things you just talked about, what is my voice?
What is it we're trying to say? How do we want to say it that
reaching out to somebody like you, you and particularly would
be a great first step and with respect to properly executing a
podcast, making it land first time right way, yeah.
And not knowing. Or knowing that you're that it's
(39:39):
not right for you is equally as important as knowing that
exactly. Yeah, we and.
Sales, we call that qualifying out.
If it's not an opportunity, walkaway somewhere.
Else. I love it.
I love it. Well, I think we.
Discovered early on, at first it's like, we'll just wing it.
We can talk and blah, blah, blah.
And it, it was OK, but it, it's sort of meanders, it kind of
(40:01):
repeats itself. And so we finally discovered
that you're having some sort of outline to keep you kind of a
little bit focused, a little bitidea of what you wanted to cover
right was always important. Letting it go where where it
does naturally in the conversation is always.
Yeah, and you know. Yeah.
Less is more. You always have another episode
(40:22):
to think that every week for an hour, people are going to be
able to take this information and then like apply it is
insane. So you know, you're when you're
in school, you're in school 8 hours a day and you barely even
really learn anything. So it's only after that you
learn. So it's just that's how I look
at it. I look at it as touch points.
(40:43):
I look at it, how can I say whatI normally say, but in a little
bit slightly different way and how can I present it
differently? And you know, that's marketing.
You guys are really dial. You know, you guys are sales
pros. You know, in marketing, it's
saying the same thing in 1000 different ways.
So you're you, but you're on it.You know, you guys are doing it.
You got a good thing going. You got the Co host thing.
(41:03):
All of our the biggest shows areCo hosted.
So if that tells you anything, you're in the right track there
and then yeah just have fun withit.
That's my that's my thing cuz you know, now don't worry about
the listeners. You guys got to come back every
week and be fired up for it. So.
And we do we we. Really get a lot out of this
personally. It's it's not only lightning.
(41:24):
We learn from all of our guests.I've learned listening to you
here on this call today, not only do we learn from all of our
guests, we learn from each other.
And and for me, it's pretty inspirational and it and it's it
gets us jazzed up to go out and solve new problems with people
over the course of the week. So yeah, totally from that.
You don't know. I'll just leave you guys with
that. It's like, you know, I was a
(41:45):
mechanic. I was fixing people's cars.
Like I had no idea that I would do this.
So, you know, and imagine the people that are listening to
this, they already have, you know, I was 1819 years old, they
already have their career. Like imagine what the a podcast
could do that you just don't even know, you know, So I didn't
(42:07):
know and now I'm here doing this.
So it all started with me starting a podcast in my parents
garage. So, you know, that's how it goes
is all great. Inventions and success stories
are started in mom and dad's garage, and dad was like.
Once you leave, you're not coming back.
So make sure this podcast thing is going to work.
And I was like, OK dude, struggle for 20 years.
(42:28):
Then an overnight success. Exactly.
All that man. Love it.
Well, I really. Appreciate you coming on the
call today, Ryan. I always enjoy having
conversations with you, which iswhy you and I have had such a
fun time talking today and talking when we've not been on
the podcast together. If someone does want to reach
out to you now that they've listened, all the things we've
talked about today, we've talkedabout, you know, having the
right messaging, having the right start, having the right
(42:50):
structure. What?
Would be there What? Would be the best way for them
to reach out to you? What's the best way to contact
you? Yeah, sure.
So. You know, it probably says it,
but it's Ryan R Sullivan. If you use the R, you'll find me
faster. If you do Ryan Sullivan, I'm on
like page 2 of Google Now, so I'm like really working my way.
There's a lot of Ryan Sullivan'sout there, but use the R you'll
(43:10):
find me and that's how you can connect.
I mean, LinkedIn is my #1 platform, but you know, if we
can, we can put the links to to that, the website and my
Calendly. I always leave my Calendly out
there. If you are in that position, you
know, you're a business, typically 6 to normally 7
figures is where we work best because we have that time and
(43:31):
money to allocate towards the podcast.
If you're in that position, you're like, I know I'm going
to, I know we're going to start one.
Maybe we need some help. Yeah, you can grab a call with
me. Well, fantastic, we'll make.
Sure. We put all that stuff down in
the description for all the different platforms that we're
on that support that they'll be right down in the episode
information. They can click on that, come
over and start their conversation with you and get
(43:54):
their podcast launched the rightway.
There you go. Make sure to subscribe to these
guys too. Absolutely yes.
Subscribe. Comment.
You know, all the algorithms, all the goodness there.
That's what we want. So folks, that does bring us to
the end of our episode today. I hope you got as much out of
this as I did. I do want to thank my Co host,
(44:14):
Matt Long. Matt, anything you'd like to go
in and end the show with before we move on to the sunset?
No. I just love this content.
It's a little different twist than what we usually talk about,
but I think it's been really interesting diving into just
different aspects of just the sales and just your just your
(44:35):
experience, I should say, you know, as a person, as a
professional, all these things, you know, come into play.
And so it's just really fascinating to to dissect this a
little bit further. So thanks so much, Ryan.
It was really a pleasure. Thank you too.
Yeah. Seriously, really appreciate it
guys. I'm I'm learning from you guys
too. You know, I'm just I stay in my
podcast lane. So yeah, thanks, Matt.
Thanks, Kevin. Really appreciate you guys.
(44:56):
It's been a been a pleasure to be on here and thanks to the
folks. Have been watching and listening
today to our podcast. Folks, if you like what you
heard, please subscribe, like, follow, comment on the podcast.
We'd love to see you here again.We'll be back again next week
with another guest. If you'd like to go to our
website and buy our book, pleasego.
So there there'll be a link to do that in the description of
(45:18):
this episode as well. And that way you can follow up
on the methodology that Matt andI like to follow and use to help
our many clients out there in the world.
But until then, folks, thank youfor being here.
We'll see you again next week. Take care.
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