April 22, 2025 • 39 mins
Danielle Hiebert's life took an unexpected turn when, in the midst of a painful divorce after 32 years of marriage and exhausted from the pandemic's toll on educators, she found herself scrolling through job listings in the middle of the night. A curriculum coordinator position in Kuwait caught her eye, and within weeks, she was preparing to move halfway across the world.
What began as an escape from heartache transformed into a profound journey of healing and self-discovery. Kuwait—a country she knew only from Desert Storm references—became the backdrop for Danielle's personal renaissance. "That's how you know God has a wonderful sense of humor," she reflects, "because he sent me to a Muslim country to spiritually heal."
For two years, Danielle immersed herself in Middle Eastern culture, forming deep connections with people from diverse backgrounds. From her Lebanese neighbors who brought her meals to her Filipino colleague singing hymns in the school bathroom, these relationships expanded her worldview while providing the community she needed to heal. Professional validation came too, as she found herself surrounded by educators eager to learn from her—a stark contrast to the burnout she'd experienced in American schools.
The distance gave Danielle something precious: perspective. In her "apartment up in the sky," she found time for prayer, journaling, and processing grief. Weekend trips to Dubai, Jordan, and Oman fulfilled her adventurous spirit while teaching her to approach life with an open heart. Her advice for women considering similar journeys resonates with simple wisdom: "Go with an open heart and mind, because you never know how it's going to play out for you."
Want to explore how travel might support your own healing journey? I'm launching a new travel coaching program designed specifically for those working through grief, trauma, or feeling stuck. Book a free call to join the waiting list for this transformative experience launching in late May.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
If you've ever experienced so much heartache,
(00:02):
pain, grief or even just thestress of everyday life is just
so mounting and overwhelming.
You have anxiety, just, andneed to get away.
You're saying, Calgon, take meaway.
So if you're from my era, weknow what that means.
But you want to go beyond theCalgon take me away, feel you
(00:24):
want to escape these problems.
Possibly on a beach would be abetter place.
Well, I think we've all beenthere and especially at our age,
in midlife and beyond, we havehad tragedies.
We've come across what I liketo call these messy middle
seasons in our life.
(00:44):
Like to call these messy middleseasons in our life and often,
you know, we just we sit in themlike we're sitting in mud and
we just don't know how to getout.
And often we overlook thiswhole idea of stepping away from
the situation and getting aclear picture.
Well, my guest today andgetting a clearer picture.
Well, my guest today, Danielle,did just that pretty, pretty big
(01:17):
step that she took in leaving amessy situation and finding
herself in the Middle East toheal.
So join our conversation.
Well, hello, sister travelers,I have an incredible guest today
, Danielle Hebert.
I've gotten to know her overthe last few months and she has
an incredible story of how shejust kind of picked up her life
and moved to the Middle East andI wanted her to share her story
(01:40):
with you and that whole processand what happened.
So let's dive in, Danielle,Tell us what was happening in
your life that prompted such adrastic geographic change for
you.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Well, first of all, I'm really excited to be on this
podcast with you all because Iam excited to to be a part of
what Cheryl's doing here.
I was going through a reallycrazy divorce after 32 years and
COVID you know, everybody hadthat as well and so I just one
(02:20):
night was not sleeping very well, and I had that earlier that
day.
I had told my soon to beex-husband.
I was like you can go anywherein this world.
I said, your job allows you towork from home, and mine did not
, and so I did not sleep wellthat night and I just felt moved
that why couldn't I, whycouldn't I go anywhere else?
(02:43):
And so I got up in the middleof the night.
I did like most of us do andjust start scrolling through and
I was looking for jobs.
I'm an educator by trade, so Iwas thinking, okay, let's go to
Europe, let's go somewhere.
And Kuwait popped up and I waslike, okay, let's see what this
is.
And it was a curriculumcoordinator for Kuwait, an
(03:06):
international school, and I waslike, okay, and I was just
looking at it and I thought, oh,I can do this, this sounds fun.
And I honestly it was amazingbecause I must have just clicked
with the LinkedIn, which ispretty cool when you can do that
, but I didn't really update myLinkedIn because I really wasn't
(03:29):
thinking about that.
So, but all worked out.
I got a call and within twoweeks I had a job offer.
And then it took about twomonths to get all the paperwork
ready to go.
And then, just a sidebar, myson was in the National Guard
and he is working on becoming anofficer in the National Guard
(03:50):
and they said, oh, you need todo some overseas experience.
And so during that two monthprocess where I was getting my
paperwork, he found out that hewas going to be in Kuwait the
same time that I was going to bein Kuwait.
So God works things in bizarreways, I mean.
(04:10):
I didn't get to see him a lot,but you know he was just 40
minutes away for one of thoseyears that I was over there and
I was over there for two years.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
So that's how it happened.
Oh, so you said that comment toyour soon to be ex at the time
and thought well, why can't I?
I love that response, but wasthere some other, deeper
intention for you to evenconsider moving away from your
home country?
I know you said you were goingthrough a pretty difficult
(04:40):
divorce.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Well, I think it had gotten to the point where, when
anybody's been in a relationshipof any kind and there's been
abuse and just a loss of trust,I think is a huge thing to say.
I think that there's a lot ofhealing that needs to take place
, and I was at the point where Ijust, of course, as an educator
(05:05):
, we had all taken beatings forthe last several years because
of the COVID situation, and so Iwas just probably emotionally,
socially, physically,spiritually, just drained and I
really just wanted a completechange and I just felt like I
(05:29):
needed that for healing.
I needed to be able to to justget away from the situation, and
I think that's really I know,cheryl, I've talked about this
before.
It's very different from justhey, I want to run away from the
situation, and sometimes youmight feel that, but in the
process I think you need toreally be introspective and go
(05:50):
what am I going to do toactually take care of me?
It was the first time in 30some years that I was able to
just kind of focus on me and notto try to be selfish.
But I think that our generationas a whole, those of us that are
in our fifties and sixties arejust, we were trained to be all
(06:15):
right, work, take care of kids,take care of the husband, and
that is what women were to do,um, and in at the expense of
ourselves, sometimes right.
And so I think that, um, thatis why, um, I was just like you
know what, and at the same time,I also had a beautiful grandson
(06:36):
, um, who I was taking care of alot of the time.
Um was my wonderful, wonderfulblessing and I was just like you
know.
I need to get healthy so that Ican be healthy for my grandkids
too, and that I can be healthyfor myself and that I can be
(06:56):
what God intended me to be.
And at that point, I truly didnot feel, at that point, that
way.
So I was like fine, you know,let's Lord do it.
And the thing that I'm probablyunderselling this but to not
fill out a large application togo in an international job, to
not to be hired within a twoweek time period, with a huge
(07:19):
nine hour time change for allthe paperwork to fall into place
, when that does not alwayshappen, While I was still going
through the divorce process,still cleaning out a house,
still trying to get everythingelse ready.
God had all of that fall intoplace, and when those things
happen, you just you have a lot.
(07:39):
It builds on your trust, right,and your trust is low at that
point, and I think that that issuch a blessing to be able to
have that peace.
Okay, god, you've got me.
You've got me this far, you'regoing to keep, you're going to
keep leading the way.
And so did I set out to go.
Oh, I'm going to go to theMiddle East.
Um, you know, uh, the onlything I knew about Kuwait was
(08:02):
Desert Storm.
So I was like great, so, andthen it's a Muslim country.
So those were my two things andI'm thinking, all right, we'll
see Lord, maybe it's.
And I did.
I shared this with Cheryl.
I said that is how you knowthat God has a wonderful sense
(08:30):
of humor, because he sent, hesent me to a Muslim country to
spiritually heal and just tomeet some amazing people in the
process.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
So Well, I think that's amazing.
You had intention behind, uh,and you shared how God really
orchestrated it because, youknow, often people might ask
like why Kuwait?
You know, like you could haveprobably gone to teach in
another country anywhere, butit's.
But, like you said, everythingjust seamlessly fell into place
for a reason and I love that,that story and how that came to
(08:59):
be.
But, you know, knowing you weregoing to Kuwait, you said you
had a lot you were getting readyto do.
You were going through thedivorce, clearing out your house
, you know, packing things up.
I mean, that's a lot to youknow, just carry.
But did you have any concernsabout living Kuwait based on?
You know?
You said you've only knownKuwait through Desert Storm,
same thing with me.
That's really all I know aboutKuwait.
(09:21):
But I also know that you, youknow, culturally they do regard
women differently.
So was that a concern of yours,you know, in going to that type
of country?
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Well, in the interview I actually asked some
of those questions because I waslike what, what are we?
Is there a dress code?
Is there you know things thatare?
I wanted to go into the countrybeing a little bit more
prepared, so in the interview Idid ask some of those things.
You have to understand I'mbeing interviewed by people that
are in hijabs and differentthings like this, so I'm also
(09:54):
trying to be understanding ofhow I word my questions because
I don't know.
I think either it's apersonality thing or it's a
culture thing, or we're allAmericans and we just speak what
we think.
So we need to just kind ofthink about what our words are,
that we say sometimes, and sobasically, I was just asking you
(10:15):
know about that right away,because I saw them in the
interview, because we did Zoominterviews, obviously, and
they're like no, but it wasinteresting because I had one
lady, two ladies that were inthere without hijabs and two
ladies that did have hijabs on,and so I was like and for you
all that don't really know whata hijab is, I didn't until they
(10:36):
told me it's the head coveringthat the women wear over there.
But basically, this is the dealis they were just.
I was like, well, they're,they're not using one.
And they're like, no, we don'texpect you to have any other
religion.
We do have a Muslim religion.
This is, um, uh, theinternational school, and we
(10:57):
want your expertise on Americanum education and training our
teachers and things like that inour curriculum, and so that is
how that all came to be.
And so I did look it up and youhad to have your arms and legs
covered.
So I was like, okay, so I'lljust take my light long sleeve
shirts and and, and that waskind of the disc.
(11:18):
That's all I really worriedabout.
But it was very different whenI rocked in the airport.
I wasn't expecting to see menin guns and things like that at
the airport.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
This was not in the military carb and stuff, right
so.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
But I was like, ok, you know what, just keep going.
We're here and I met so manysweet people on the airplane
that were going to Kuwait andworking in different schools as
well that I was like, okay, Imean, I thought that was even
cool, is that?
On the airplane I met a family,a lady with her two kids, that
was working in another school inKuwait.
(11:54):
She was returning and justtalking, and then I ended up
sitting on a second flight nextto a lady who worked for a
business in Kuwait and she gaveme her number and she said, oh
well, you'll have to come andlook me up and all this stuff.
And I was just like this is soinviting and when you are ever
at a point when you're trying toheal and you have been just
(12:17):
your tank is empty, right, forlack of a better word your tank
is empty.
You need to be loved on right.
You need some people to fillthat up and God used complete
strangers to do that and it'ssuch a blessing.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
So it sounds like you know.
You were there two years, so itwas 2021 is when you went 2021
to 2023.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
2021 to 2023.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yeah, so you were there about two years and so in
two years I know you made somefriends.
How were you treated by thelocals?
Because you actually kind ofbecame one of them.
So how was that?
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Well, the nice thing is is that I got to live in the
military.
We call that on the economyinstead of in.
I was married to someone thathad been in the military.
We call that on the economyinstead of in.
I was married to someone thathad been in the military, so I
was used to traveling a littlebit, but I think that it was
great because I had everybody inmy building.
(13:18):
Were were maybe not Kuwaiti,because Kuwaitis have the bigger
homes on the outers.
I was in town, I was likedowntown, and so I was in a big
building and I took care of thattoo, because it's desert and
you know, I mean I I get it.
Some people love the desertlandscape.
(13:39):
That is not me.
I have always been somebodythat loved green, loved water.
Put me by a lake, an ocean, anyday, right, and so I got to
have an apartment where I had aview.
When there weren't, when thereweren't, sandstorms, I had a
view of golf, so I could seewater.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
So I was like okay, there is water.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
So um that, to me that was another.
God's got this right.
I mean totally of all the placesa lot of, I mean a lot of the
buildings and this was a tallbuilding in order to do that
right, most of the buildingswere not that tall.
I could see the roofs of mostof the buildings around me and
that meant I could have been inone of those buildings where I
was just looking at otherbuildings, right, um.
(14:20):
So to me those things are huge,huge.
God plays Right.
And so then I got there and I Ilearned the lingo, Right, I
learned how to use the dinar.
I, most of the people that Iprobably worked at, were worked
with were, were not necessarilyKuwaitis.
(14:42):
I mean, I met a few Kuwaitis,but a lot of them were Indians,
a lot of them were Egyptians, alot of them were Iranians,
pakistanians because they're thetaxi drivers Sri Lankans all
the Sri Lankans were my drivers.
My little Egyptian man was myum little.
(15:05):
They call them um Bacalas, alittle Bacala, um, and uh, those
are basically like a littlemini 7-Eleven that's the size of
a closet, right, um, they havelittle things and you call them
and they will bring them to you.
And he, he came and brought meall my waters, whatever I needed
(15:26):
.
I would call and he would bringwhatever.
And um, he was, he saw, he sawme one day and I don't know what
it was, I don't know something.
He all of a sudden said you,christian?
And I was like, well, yes,which is not something you
usually hear, um, and he's inhis normal garb and he raises
(15:47):
his arm up and he has a cross.
He said me too, and he said itreally quietly, yeah, and he was
a little Egyptian man and I waslike you know what a blessing,
right.
And so you know there was a lotof that.
And so you know there was a lotof that.
A lot of Filipino women werewhat they called nannies.
(16:07):
When they are called over towatch the children for them and
clean their house and fix theirmeals, and they always have them
wear these, really theseuniforms.
But I didn't know that when Ifirst saw them, and one was
really pretty pink littlepantsuit and was just like, oh,
(16:28):
you were wearing such a cuteoutfit and all of a sudden she
looked at me, honey, and shedidn't.
The thing that you have tolearn about a lot of these other
people that aren't queens.
They live to not be seen.
They live to not be to not beseen.
They live to not be seen becausethey do not want to lose their
(16:48):
job.
They live on nothing, so theysend everything back to their
homes for their families to live, because there just aren't jobs
in their countries and we can'treally fathom how this all
works.
I mean, I knew a driver.
He lived on $10 a month,nothing, so he could send
(17:08):
everything back to his family.
And because some of them do notget paid very well, but, it's
something.
And so she looked at me strangeand then just kind of put her
head down and went on and Iwould see this lady every.
She was dropping off childrenevery day when I was walking to
work and I would always say goodmorning or something and she
(17:30):
would just kind of look down orwhatever.
And then one day I was on myphone I'd gotten a message and
I'm walking and this was likeprobably year two, by the way.
And all of a sudden.
All of a sudden, I hear goodmorning.
And I was like, I looked up andshe actually spoke to me and I
(17:56):
was like, oh, good morning.
And I I think it had justbecome a routine and she, she
felt safe enough to respond tome and that was just another
blessing, too.
Right, it was also another oneof those aha moments.
Again, you have your headsomewhere you're not supposed to
be.
Look up, look around, you know.
But such a blessing.
Now I would say there are sometimes that I didn't always feel
super safe.
(18:16):
Okay, share with us, notperfectly, but I would go to the
grocery store to get biggerthings that the Bacala wouldn't
have and there would be onecashier who would always be come
to me, come to me, your husbandnot here, you can come, stay
with me and you know all thosethings and I kind of and that's
(18:38):
what I'm saying I was able to go.
Nope, I'm good, thank you, youknow, and just play it off, and
I would say hi to him every timehe came in.
But they, some of them, feelvery empowered to kind of be a
little more than flirty.
You know what I mean, just kindof.
And one day the other.
The scariest thing to me waswhen I was walking home one day
(19:01):
it was in the summer everybodyelse had left.
I didn't know that people couldleave early last day, and so
all of a sudden, I'm going,where is everybody, and the
whole building's empty, exceptfor a few of the the the safe,
safe what do they call thosesecurity guards that were around
the compound?
And I'm I'm walking out and allof a sudden this car is right
(19:21):
there next to me, just drivingreally slow right behind me as
I'm walking.
And this car is right therenext to me, just driving really
slow right behind me as I'mwalking, and he's like I take
you home, I take you home.
And I'm like no, I'm good.
And it just kept, I mean, justkept going.
And I was like this is kind offreaking me out, right.
So I was like no, I'm fine.
And I ran across the streetinto the grocery store parking
(19:42):
lot and then he drove off.
But that the street into thegrocery store parking lot, and
then he drove off.
But that was the weirdest timefor me because there was nobody
around.
Everybody left early.
They forgot.
I left me in my little office,but other than that it was a lot
more blessings than not.
(20:04):
And I had this wonderfulLebanese family that lived in
the apartment building next tome.
They just took me in, theybrought me meals.
I worked with their son andhelped tutor him some.
He was the sweetest little boy.
He tried to teach me how tospeak Arabic.
Bless his heart.
He would take my mouth and gono, you have to make a sound.
And I was just like oh, I'm sosorry, I'm not doing that very
(20:27):
well at this and um, and it justgoes to show you that you know,
it's very hard to learn somelike especially guttural song.
You know, and I'm I'll behonest, I don't even think I'm,
I'm meant for a whole bunch oflanguages, but I know bits and
pieces and um, I think it's soimportant to teach our little
(20:48):
ones to speak languages whenthey're young.
Their mouths are forming.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Yeah, my, my kids often, uh, get mad at me because
I didn't do that for them.
So I guess we'll do it for thenext generation, right?
yes, well yes, that's, that's mygrandchildren, right generation
, right.
Well, you were there for twoyears and I'm sure while you
were there, I know you had anopportunity set a little bit to
see one of your sons, but youhave two other sons and you have
(21:15):
other family and friends thatyou know were back in the States
, you know.
I'm sure you missed your family.
How did you combat any kind ofhomesickness that you might have
been experiencing while there?
Speaker 2 (21:27):
You know I, I really I had met so many new people and
so many awesome people that Ihate saying this because I love
my family and they know that.
Um, but I have to let me backup for a minute.
I told you way back and this isgoing to date me but when my
husband and I first got married,we moved to Germany because he
(21:49):
was in the military in 1989.
And we were in Germany when thewall came down, so we drove
into East Germany.
There really wasn't EastGermany.
We drove into that the day thewall came down.
And so I mean we were just kids, just kids probably weren't
supposed to do that, who knowsTook a back road, I mean, you
(22:12):
know so historic event, though,so yes, and so I had always been
.
I had, oh, that was always mything, right, and I, even in in
high school, when we graduated,most to see the world, you know.
I mean, you know those littlethings that they have seniors
vote on and all that stuff Mine,one of mine, was the first to
(22:34):
see the world, and that'sbecause I always had this desire
to just travel everywhere, andI traveled every summer.
My parents were educators, sowe traveled everywhere every
summer.
That was just kind of somethingthat I have a passion for is
travel in the first place, right, and so, to me, I was not ever
really homesick because I knewwhat I was doing.
(22:54):
And the thing that's so great ohmy gosh, in 1989, they didn't
have something called WhatsApp.
They have WhatsApp now, so Iwas able to call, text my family
whenever, of course, theydidn't like it because of time.
You know, nine hour time change, they're like mother, it is six
in the morning.
I'm like I know, I'm trying tocatch you, so you know.
(23:15):
So I really I got to talk to myfamily and I got to, and I
think the thing that's sovaluable about that is because
when you do, it's not how's theweather, right, it's, it's
deeper conversations.
Catch me up.
What's going on?
Speaker 1 (23:30):
in your life Right.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
And um, and I feel like sometimes, in some ways, I
had better conversations with uma lot of those you know and and
my daughter-in-law well, she'smy son's fiance at the time Well
, not quite, she was hisgirlfriend.
She flew over to Kuwait, stayedat my house.
He came over, I had helped himpick out a ring, and so they got
(23:52):
engaged in my little apartmentin Kuwait and I didn't, I didn't
know that.
Yes, Very cool.
And then we, um and Jessica, my, my daughter-in-law.
Now we, we, we kind ofcoordinated at the end of the
year or so that she went with meand we took a whole tour of
Italy and then we came back toKuwait, got her stuff and went
(24:16):
home.
So it was, it was just, I mean,to me I think it was a lot more
meaningful experiences.
I think that's what you get outof travel in general.
More meaningful experiences.
I think that's what you get outof travel in general when you
have your heart open and youreyes out of your phone.
I think that that is what lifeis about, is those meaningful
moments and being able to listento God's leading, and I think
(24:40):
that I was able to be able toheal that way.
I was able to listen to a lotof great sermons, dive into so
those those quote unquote lonelymoments that you were talking
about, where I couldn't gethomesick.
I was.
I was able to just hey, this ismy, this is my prayer time,
this is my Bible Bible time.
And I'll tell you my.
(25:01):
I wasn't used to the bellsgoing off, and if you've ever
been in the Middle East, you'llunderstand that they have bells
going off every time they'resupposed to pray in their
churches and then they havesomebody coming over the
loudspeaker and speaking inArabic, but to an American it
sounds like you know, and I'mjust like what just happened,
and my apartment was reallyclose, so at like 11 at night
(25:24):
the first night.
I got there.
It's going off and I'm thinkingwhat does that mean?
Is that like a tornado drill?
I don't know what this is right.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
We're from Texas, so it's a tornado drill for us.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
I'm just like what is happening, and then I'm looking
out all the windows trying tofigure out oh, it's coming from
that mosque.
Okay, obviously this must be aprayer thing, right.
So.
But it woke me up, scared meand I, and then I got to the
point where I just sleep throughit.
So I but when you have stufflike that in your head, if you
(25:58):
will, or just like because Imean that was several times
throughout the day, you wouldhear this it's a good reminder
of just praying for to yourHeavenly Father, right and go.
You know what I can do, that Ican pray.
I don't have to get down andface a certain way, but I can
pray, and I think that that was.
(26:18):
It was just a really wonderfulthing.
And I'll tell you, I was walkinginto work one day and one of
the nannies, one of the cleaners, she was in the bathroom and
she was singing him a Filipinolady, and she was singing him
and I walked in.
I was like I know that him andthey have large little pockets
(26:39):
of like Filipino churches andGreek Orthodox churches and
greek orthodox churches andindian churches that are
christian churches that theyhave, that they meet in either
homes or different things likethat and and that is.
It was such so sweet, right, sosweet to hear that I have grown
up in the bible.
I mean, I've grown up in theunited states and then I've
(27:01):
raised my children in the BibleBelt.
Can't tell you that I've everheard anybody singing a hymn at
work, you know, and it was very.
It just touched me in a reallysweet way.
So I mean, those are themoments that I said God gives
you in the midst of this worldand when we want to think what
(27:22):
we think about other places inthe world.
I'm just here to say sometimeswe need to rethink those places,
because God has people thatlove him in lots of pockets of
this world about places that arenot true.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
They're just based on what little media information
we've gathered or pastexperiences that we've heard
about.
And, like you said, there's asaying there's just kindness
everywhere.
You just have to look for it.
And I believe that as well.
And I think you also expressbeing open, know being open,
having this open heart and mindtoo, is important.
To see that, but also toreceive that you know without
(28:11):
judgment.
So I would imagine you knowyou've given little hints that
over these two years, while youwere in Kuwait, that it sounds
like you began your healingprocess.
You know when you went to leaveafter those two years, how
different did you feel?
You know, from a emotional,physical, you know all that
(28:33):
stuff that you were dealing withbeforehand to now you're two
years in what were well, I guesswhat you know, what changes did
you see in yourself?
And then you know when you cameback, I guess, the re-entry
they call it right.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Right, I think it was really interesting, I, and it's
really important to know thatthere are so many other, because
I was in an internationalschool.
I had so many different peopleI had that were that became
great friends with me, you know,from Buddhist to Mormon to you
(29:09):
know, that were just differentteachers and and we actually,
you know, had some greatopportunities from Hindu, yeah,
I, I, just I got to learn aboutso many different religions, um,
just from being there andloving on people, and I think
that that is that is our goal,and so for me, it was not only
(29:32):
did I feel loved on for justbeing a newcomer and I was, it
fed.
First of all, I'm going to backup for a minute.
It fed my professional need,because I had been drained from
our school system and just thedifferent things that were going
(29:52):
on here, and I was able to goand build up teachers and, in
the process of me trainingteachers how to do things, the
appreciation and the love andthe kindness that came back to
me, that was like, oh my gosh,Danielle, please show me more,
Please teach me more.
Right, Because we don't I don'talways have that situation in
(30:16):
the United States, right?
We sometimes have thateagerness to learn and that's
that's sad on, it's a sadcommentary on on our part.
But it was very exciting to mebecause I was going to try to
learn from them and they wantedto learn from me and because of
that I really helped myemotional wellbeing.
(30:37):
But it also helped my.
I didn't realize how low I hadgotten in my own self-esteem and
my own abilities to do my jobRight.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
And.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
I think when we get to those points we don't realize
that we're just beat up acrossthe board.
You know, when we, when we getto those low points, I would
probably have said in my 20s, ohyeah, even in high school, oh,
I'm a pretty confident person,but I think at that point I
wasn't, and so I was just like,hey, let's just dive in, let's
(31:08):
see what we got, let's see whatwe can do, and just bonding with
people and learning from themand being willing to learn from
them and wanting to learn fromyou was such a beautiful thing
that that was a very majorhealing part for me.
But also just buildingbeautiful relationships with
people from all over the worldand I you know, and just
(31:29):
listening to each other, and Ithink I think that that's what's
funny is, I don't think thatsometimes we take the time.
It was really awesome becausewe did have a lot of Muslim
holidays, so on those Muslimholidays I got to go and travel
all over the world withdifferent people, right, and you
(31:50):
just get to learn so much whenyou, when you do that and and I
think you have to go in withthat is going what can I learn,
lord?
What is it you're trying toshow me?
And I think, if have to go inwith that is going what can I
learn, lord, what is it you'retrying to show me?
And I think if you don't, ifyou close yourself off, you're
not going to get that.
And so, like I already told you,I got to learn to devour
marvelous messages and myjournaling and just all these
(32:11):
things, my prayers andeverything that I got to go
through and the people I wantedto reconcile.
You know my ex-husband Right, Iwent through all these things.
Okay, um started praying forhim.
Um, just total, um, spiritualhealing, right and emotional
(32:33):
healing, and um.
So it was just that was what wasgoing on behind the scenes.
Right, right, my littleapartment up in the sky.
um, and overlooking the girllooking everything which was so
cool to me, because I loveheights, I love this stuff um,
and it was just, uh, justamazing.
And then I would get my venturefilled, which hadn't been
filled in quite a long time um,by going um burj khalifa when
(32:57):
I'm talking about being up highright and to Dubai and had a
fabulous trip, and a lot of thatgot paid for, because I was
working with a textbook companywho wanted me to come to a
conference in Dubai and you knowwind and dined me and they did
so wonderful and it was, it wasamazing, and you know.
(33:18):
So, like I said, I can go onand on.
There's so many things that Godjust orchestrated in my life
and when you are able to just,and in the moment, sometimes you
don't see it, but when you sitback and you're journaling or
you're, reading.
God's word, or you're singing orwhatever.
That is what you're seeing,that God is filling your soul,
Right, and so that was all greatI did.
(33:41):
To be honest, I did come backwith some health issues, but a
lot of that had to do with myage and my hormones and I, I
gotta say I really miss mysocialized medicine because
everything was paid for over theback year.
So, but you know, um, but that,that was that's how it played
(34:02):
out.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Well, and often distance, you know, or getting
out of our normal, our comfortzones, propels us forward and
you know new experiences,healing whatever is needed.
We see things differently andyeah, so I love that you did
that.
Now I don't what advice wouldyou give to a woman?
Speaker 2 (34:27):
traveling.
I think you need to go in withan open mind and an open heart
and there's things you're goingto see, like when you go to a
third world country, that justbreak your heart and you just
have to just pray because youcan't fix that for them.
But there's also things thatyou're going to see there's just
going to be the sweetest peoplein the world and I met this
(34:49):
wonderful Jordanian family.
Such a blessing.
He was our tour guide.
He showed us all over Jordan.
By the way, jordan is beautiful.
You cannot I cannot express theDead Sea, petra.
Those are must, must, do's.
Of course, everybody says I doI just to do, to buy Right.
I mean, if you're going to bein the Middle East, go to Dubai.
(35:10):
It's got so many amazing thingsand Bahrain and Qatar are now
trying to compete with Dubai alittle bit.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
They're doing a lot of cool things.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Oman has a world all of its own.
It's like a little sea villagedown in the Gulf and Indian
Ocean and it's very sweet people.
So they all have different.
I think, kind of, if you go todifferent States in the United
States, you get a different feel, right and um.
(35:41):
I just like, if you go todifferent countries and even
though they're all part of themiddle East, they all have a
different um feel to them.
And it's funny because if youwould have asked me three, four
years ago if I would ever wantto travel to the middle East, I
was like, oh, not interested.
Thank you, um and um.
But you know God, god worksthings in mysterious ways, right
(36:05):
and um.
So my advice is just definitely, if you have those
opportunities and it opens up,go, because you never know what
you're going to, um and.
But, like I said, go with anopen heart, go with an open mind
, because you never know howit's going to play out for you.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Yes, well, danielle, this has been an amazing time
and I just so appreciate allyour honesty and and opening up
about your experience and justI'm thankful for your healing.
That happened.
So thank you so much for beinghere and I thank you for having
me.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
I'm so excited to share with your people.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
So much fun.
Yes, thank you again All right,bye-bye, bye.
What an incredible story ofunlikely place to find healing
with Danielle.
I love it and I know for a factand I've experienced it myself
that healing can come in thosestrangest places, and travel can
(37:06):
play a part of that.
As listeners of my podcast, Iwould love to help you find
healing If you find yourself ina place of struggling with past
grief, trauma, anything that hasplaced you in a place that you
feel stuck and you know you wantto move on.
(37:27):
I'm here to provide travelcoaching.
As a certified travel coach.
I have a new program I amlaunching.
I'm thrilled to offer it upstarting the end of May, but
right now I am taking names.
I encourage you to book a callto get on the waiting list for
when this program launches, andso this is a program that's
(37:49):
going to offer you coaching tohelp guide you through and also
help you utilize travel as atool for your healing journey.
So I hope you will book a call.
I will put the link in the shownotes.
This is a free call and it'sjust to assess whether the
program is right for you and toget your name and information on
(38:13):
the wait list so that when itreleases the end of May, you'll
be able to sign up for thatprogram right away.
All right, sister travelers,get out there and have those
adventures.
If you've ever experienced so much heartache,
(00:02):
pain, grief or even just thestress of everyday life is just
so mounting and overwhelming.
You have anxiety, just, andneed to get away.
You're saying, Calgon, take meaway.
So if you're from my era, weknow what that means.
But you want to go beyond theCalgon take me away, feel you
(00:24):
want to escape these problems.
Possibly on a beach would be abetter place.
Well, I think we've all beenthere and especially at our age,
in midlife and beyond, we havehad tragedies.
We've come across what I liketo call these messy middle
seasons in our life.
(00:44):
Like to call these messy middleseasons in our life and often,
you know, we just we sit in themlike we're sitting in mud and
we just don't know how to getout.
And often we overlook thiswhole idea of stepping away from
the situation and getting aclear picture.
Well, my guest today andgetting a clearer picture.
Well, my guest today, Danielle,did just that pretty, pretty big
(01:17):
step that she took in leaving amessy situation and finding
herself in the Middle East toheal.
So join our conversation.
Well, hello, sister travelers,I have an incredible guest today
, Danielle Hebert.
I've gotten to know her overthe last few months and she has
an incredible story of how shejust kind of picked up her life
and moved to the Middle East andI wanted her to share her story
(01:40):
with you and that whole processand what happened.
So let's dive in, Danielle,Tell us what was happening in
your life that prompted such adrastic geographic change for
you.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Well, first of all, I'm really excited to be on this
podcast with you all because Iam excited to to be a part of
what Cheryl's doing here.
I was going through a reallycrazy divorce after 32 years and
COVID you know, everybody hadthat as well and so I just one
(02:20):
night was not sleeping very well, and I had that earlier that
day.
I had told my soon to beex-husband.
I was like you can go anywherein this world.
I said, your job allows you towork from home, and mine did not
, and so I did not sleep wellthat night and I just felt moved
that why couldn't I, whycouldn't I go anywhere else?
(02:43):
And so I got up in the middleof the night.
I did like most of us do andjust start scrolling through and
I was looking for jobs.
I'm an educator by trade, so Iwas thinking, okay, let's go to
Europe, let's go somewhere.
And Kuwait popped up and I waslike, okay, let's see what this
is.
And it was a curriculumcoordinator for Kuwait, an
(03:06):
international school, and I waslike, okay, and I was just
looking at it and I thought, oh,I can do this, this sounds fun.
And I honestly it was amazingbecause I must have just clicked
with the LinkedIn, which ispretty cool when you can do that
, but I didn't really update myLinkedIn because I really wasn't
(03:29):
thinking about that.
So, but all worked out.
I got a call and within twoweeks I had a job offer.
And then it took about twomonths to get all the paperwork
ready to go.
And then, just a sidebar, myson was in the National Guard
and he is working on becoming anofficer in the National Guard
(03:50):
and they said, oh, you need todo some overseas experience.
And so during that two monthprocess where I was getting my
paperwork, he found out that hewas going to be in Kuwait the
same time that I was going to bein Kuwait.
So God works things in bizarreways, I mean.
(04:10):
I didn't get to see him a lot,but you know he was just 40
minutes away for one of thoseyears that I was over there and
I was over there for two years.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
So that's how it happened.
Oh, so you said that comment toyour soon to be ex at the time
and thought well, why can't I?
I love that response, but wasthere some other, deeper
intention for you to evenconsider moving away from your
home country?
I know you said you were goingthrough a pretty difficult
(04:40):
divorce.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Well, I think it had gotten to the point where, when
anybody's been in a relationshipof any kind and there's been
abuse and just a loss of trust,I think is a huge thing to say.
I think that there's a lot ofhealing that needs to take place
, and I was at the point where Ijust, of course, as an educator
(05:05):
, we had all taken beatings forthe last several years because
of the COVID situation, and so Iwas just probably emotionally,
socially, physically,spiritually, just drained and I
really just wanted a completechange and I just felt like I
(05:29):
needed that for healing.
I needed to be able to to justget away from the situation, and
I think that's really I know,cheryl, I've talked about this
before.
It's very different from justhey, I want to run away from the
situation, and sometimes youmight feel that, but in the
process I think you need toreally be introspective and go
(05:50):
what am I going to do toactually take care of me?
It was the first time in 30some years that I was able to
just kind of focus on me and notto try to be selfish.
But I think that our generationas a whole, those of us that are
in our fifties and sixties arejust, we were trained to be all
(06:15):
right, work, take care of kids,take care of the husband, and
that is what women were to do,um, and in at the expense of
ourselves, sometimes right.
And so I think that, um, thatis why, um, I was just like you
know what, and at the same time,I also had a beautiful grandson
(06:36):
, um, who I was taking care of alot of the time.
Um was my wonderful, wonderfulblessing and I was just like you
know.
I need to get healthy so that Ican be healthy for my grandkids
too, and that I can be healthyfor myself and that I can be
(06:56):
what God intended me to be.
And at that point, I truly didnot feel, at that point, that
way.
So I was like fine, you know,let's Lord do it.
And the thing that I'm probablyunderselling this but to not
fill out a large application togo in an international job, to
not to be hired within a twoweek time period, with a huge
(07:19):
nine hour time change for allthe paperwork to fall into place
, when that does not alwayshappen, While I was still going
through the divorce process,still cleaning out a house,
still trying to get everythingelse ready.
God had all of that fall intoplace, and when those things
happen, you just you have a lot.
(07:39):
It builds on your trust, right,and your trust is low at that
point, and I think that that issuch a blessing to be able to
have that peace.
Okay, god, you've got me.
You've got me this far, you'regoing to keep, you're going to
keep leading the way.
And so did I set out to go.
Oh, I'm going to go to theMiddle East.
Um, you know, uh, the onlything I knew about Kuwait was
(08:02):
Desert Storm.
So I was like great, so, andthen it's a Muslim country.
So those were my two things andI'm thinking, all right, we'll
see Lord, maybe it's.
And I did.
I shared this with Cheryl.
I said that is how you knowthat God has a wonderful sense
(08:30):
of humor, because he sent, hesent me to a Muslim country to
spiritually heal and just tomeet some amazing people in the
process.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
So Well, I think that's amazing.
You had intention behind, uh,and you shared how God really
orchestrated it because, youknow, often people might ask
like why Kuwait?
You know, like you could haveprobably gone to teach in
another country anywhere, butit's.
But, like you said, everythingjust seamlessly fell into place
for a reason and I love that,that story and how that came to
(08:59):
be.
But, you know, knowing you weregoing to Kuwait, you said you
had a lot you were getting readyto do.
You were going through thedivorce, clearing out your house
, you know, packing things up.
I mean, that's a lot to youknow, just carry.
But did you have any concernsabout living Kuwait based on?
You know?
You said you've only knownKuwait through Desert Storm,
same thing with me.
That's really all I know aboutKuwait.
(09:21):
But I also know that you, youknow, culturally they do regard
women differently.
So was that a concern of yours,you know, in going to that type
of country?
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Well, in the interview I actually asked some
of those questions because I waslike what, what are we?
Is there a dress code?
Is there you know things thatare?
I wanted to go into the countrybeing a little bit more
prepared, so in the interview Idid ask some of those things.
You have to understand I'mbeing interviewed by people that
are in hijabs and differentthings like this, so I'm also
(09:54):
trying to be understanding ofhow I word my questions because
I don't know.
I think either it's apersonality thing or it's a
culture thing, or we're allAmericans and we just speak what
we think.
So we need to just kind ofthink about what our words are,
that we say sometimes, and sobasically, I was just asking you
(10:15):
know about that right away,because I saw them in the
interview, because we did Zoominterviews, obviously, and
they're like no, but it wasinteresting because I had one
lady, two ladies that were inthere without hijabs and two
ladies that did have hijabs on,and so I was like and for you
all that don't really know whata hijab is, I didn't until they
(10:36):
told me it's the head coveringthat the women wear over there.
But basically, this is the dealis they were just.
I was like, well, they're,they're not using one.
And they're like, no, we don'texpect you to have any other
religion.
We do have a Muslim religion.
This is, um, uh, theinternational school, and we
(10:57):
want your expertise on Americanum education and training our
teachers and things like that inour curriculum, and so that is
how that all came to be.
And so I did look it up and youhad to have your arms and legs
covered.
So I was like, okay, so I'lljust take my light long sleeve
shirts and and, and that waskind of the disc.
(11:18):
That's all I really worriedabout.
But it was very different whenI rocked in the airport.
I wasn't expecting to see menin guns and things like that at
the airport.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
This was not in the military carb and stuff, right
so.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
But I was like, ok, you know what, just keep going.
We're here and I met so manysweet people on the airplane
that were going to Kuwait andworking in different schools as
well that I was like, okay, Imean, I thought that was even
cool, is that?
On the airplane I met a family,a lady with her two kids, that
was working in another school inKuwait.
(11:54):
She was returning and justtalking, and then I ended up
sitting on a second flight nextto a lady who worked for a
business in Kuwait and she gaveme her number and she said, oh
well, you'll have to come andlook me up and all this stuff.
And I was just like this is soinviting and when you are ever
at a point when you're trying toheal and you have been just
(12:17):
your tank is empty, right, forlack of a better word your tank
is empty.
You need to be loved on right.
You need some people to fillthat up and God used complete
strangers to do that and it'ssuch a blessing.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
So it sounds like you know.
You were there two years, so itwas 2021 is when you went 2021
to 2023.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
2021 to 2023.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yeah, so you were there about two years and so in
two years I know you made somefriends.
How were you treated by thelocals?
Because you actually kind ofbecame one of them.
So how was that?
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Well, the nice thing is is that I got to live in the
military.
We call that on the economyinstead of in.
I was married to someone thathad been in the military.
We call that on the economyinstead of in.
I was married to someone thathad been in the military, so I
was used to traveling a littlebit, but I think that it was
great because I had everybody inmy building.
(13:18):
Were were maybe not Kuwaiti,because Kuwaitis have the bigger
homes on the outers.
I was in town, I was likedowntown, and so I was in a big
building and I took care of thattoo, because it's desert and
you know, I mean I I get it.
Some people love the desertlandscape.
(13:39):
That is not me.
I have always been somebodythat loved green, loved water.
Put me by a lake, an ocean, anyday, right, and so I got to
have an apartment where I had aview.
When there weren't, when thereweren't, sandstorms, I had a
view of golf, so I could seewater.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
So I was like okay, there is water.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
So um that, to me that was another.
God's got this right.
I mean totally of all the placesa lot of, I mean a lot of the
buildings and this was a tallbuilding in order to do that
right, most of the buildingswere not that tall.
I could see the roofs of mostof the buildings around me and
that meant I could have been inone of those buildings where I
was just looking at otherbuildings, right, um.
(14:20):
So to me those things are huge,huge.
God plays Right.
And so then I got there and I Ilearned the lingo, Right, I
learned how to use the dinar.
I, most of the people that Iprobably worked at, were worked
with were, were not necessarilyKuwaitis.
(14:42):
I mean, I met a few Kuwaitis,but a lot of them were Indians,
a lot of them were Egyptians, alot of them were Iranians,
pakistanians because they're thetaxi drivers Sri Lankans all
the Sri Lankans were my drivers.
My little Egyptian man was myum little.
(15:05):
They call them um Bacalas, alittle Bacala, um, and uh, those
are basically like a littlemini 7-Eleven that's the size of
a closet, right, um, they havelittle things and you call them
and they will bring them to you.
And he, he came and brought meall my waters, whatever I needed
(15:26):
.
I would call and he would bringwhatever.
And um, he was, he saw, he sawme one day and I don't know what
it was, I don't know something.
He all of a sudden said you,christian?
And I was like, well, yes,which is not something you
usually hear, um, and he's inhis normal garb and he raises
(15:47):
his arm up and he has a cross.
He said me too, and he said itreally quietly, yeah, and he was
a little Egyptian man and I waslike you know what a blessing,
right.
And so you know there was a lotof that.
And so you know there was a lotof that.
A lot of Filipino women werewhat they called nannies.
(16:07):
When they are called over towatch the children for them and
clean their house and fix theirmeals, and they always have them
wear these, really theseuniforms.
But I didn't know that when Ifirst saw them, and one was
really pretty pink littlepantsuit and was just like, oh,
(16:28):
you were wearing such a cuteoutfit and all of a sudden she
looked at me, honey, and shedidn't.
The thing that you have tolearn about a lot of these other
people that aren't queens.
They live to not be seen.
They live to not be to not beseen.
They live to not be seen becausethey do not want to lose their
(16:48):
job.
They live on nothing, so theysend everything back to their
homes for their families to live, because there just aren't jobs
in their countries and we can'treally fathom how this all
works.
I mean, I knew a driver.
He lived on $10 a month,nothing, so he could send
(17:08):
everything back to his family.
And because some of them do notget paid very well, but, it's
something.
And so she looked at me strangeand then just kind of put her
head down and went on and Iwould see this lady every.
She was dropping off childrenevery day when I was walking to
work and I would always say goodmorning or something and she
(17:30):
would just kind of look down orwhatever.
And then one day I was on myphone I'd gotten a message and
I'm walking and this was likeprobably year two, by the way.
And all of a sudden.
All of a sudden, I hear goodmorning.
And I was like, I looked up andshe actually spoke to me and I
(17:56):
was like, oh, good morning.
And I I think it had justbecome a routine and she, she
felt safe enough to respond tome and that was just another
blessing, too.
Right, it was also another oneof those aha moments.
Again, you have your headsomewhere you're not supposed to
be.
Look up, look around, you know.
But such a blessing.
Now I would say there are sometimes that I didn't always feel
super safe.
(18:16):
Okay, share with us, notperfectly, but I would go to the
grocery store to get biggerthings that the Bacala wouldn't
have and there would be onecashier who would always be come
to me, come to me, your husbandnot here, you can come, stay
with me and you know all thosethings and I kind of and that's
(18:38):
what I'm saying I was able to go.
Nope, I'm good, thank you, youknow, and just play it off, and
I would say hi to him every timehe came in.
But they, some of them, feelvery empowered to kind of be a
little more than flirty.
You know what I mean, just kindof.
And one day the other.
The scariest thing to me waswhen I was walking home one day
(19:01):
it was in the summer everybodyelse had left.
I didn't know that people couldleave early last day, and so
all of a sudden, I'm going,where is everybody, and the
whole building's empty, exceptfor a few of the the the safe,
safe what do they call thosesecurity guards that were around
the compound?
And I'm I'm walking out and allof a sudden this car is right
(19:21):
there next to me, just drivingreally slow right behind me as
I'm walking.
And this car is right therenext to me, just driving really
slow right behind me as I'mwalking, and he's like I take
you home, I take you home.
And I'm like no, I'm good.
And it just kept, I mean, justkept going.
And I was like this is kind offreaking me out, right.
So I was like no, I'm fine.
And I ran across the streetinto the grocery store parking
(19:42):
lot and then he drove off.
But that the street into thegrocery store parking lot, and
then he drove off.
But that was the weirdest timefor me because there was nobody
around.
Everybody left early.
They forgot.
I left me in my little office,but other than that it was a lot
more blessings than not.
(20:04):
And I had this wonderfulLebanese family that lived in
the apartment building next tome.
They just took me in, theybrought me meals.
I worked with their son andhelped tutor him some.
He was the sweetest little boy.
He tried to teach me how tospeak Arabic.
Bless his heart.
He would take my mouth and gono, you have to make a sound.
And I was just like oh, I'm sosorry, I'm not doing that very
(20:27):
well at this and um, and it justgoes to show you that you know,
it's very hard to learn somelike especially guttural song.
You know, and I'm I'll behonest, I don't even think I'm,
I'm meant for a whole bunch oflanguages, but I know bits and
pieces and um, I think it's soimportant to teach our little
(20:48):
ones to speak languages whenthey're young.
Their mouths are forming.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Yeah, my, my kids often, uh, get mad at me because
I didn't do that for them.
So I guess we'll do it for thenext generation, right?
yes, well yes, that's, that's mygrandchildren, right generation
, right.
Well, you were there for twoyears and I'm sure while you
were there, I know you had anopportunity set a little bit to
see one of your sons, but youhave two other sons and you have
(21:15):
other family and friends thatyou know were back in the States
, you know.
I'm sure you missed your family.
How did you combat any kind ofhomesickness that you might have
been experiencing while there?
Speaker 2 (21:27):
You know I, I really I had met so many new people and
so many awesome people that Ihate saying this because I love
my family and they know that.
Um, but I have to let me backup for a minute.
I told you way back and this isgoing to date me but when my
husband and I first got married,we moved to Germany because he
(21:49):
was in the military in 1989.
And we were in Germany when thewall came down, so we drove
into East Germany.
There really wasn't EastGermany.
We drove into that the day thewall came down.
And so I mean we were just kids, just kids probably weren't
supposed to do that, who knowsTook a back road, I mean, you
(22:12):
know so historic event, though,so yes, and so I had always been
.
I had, oh, that was always mything, right, and I, even in in
high school, when we graduated,most to see the world, you know.
I mean, you know those littlethings that they have seniors
vote on and all that stuff Mine,one of mine, was the first to
(22:34):
see the world, and that'sbecause I always had this desire
to just travel everywhere, andI traveled every summer.
My parents were educators, sowe traveled everywhere every
summer.
That was just kind of somethingthat I have a passion for is
travel in the first place, right, and so, to me, I was not ever
really homesick because I knewwhat I was doing.
(22:54):
And the thing that's so great ohmy gosh, in 1989, they didn't
have something called WhatsApp.
They have WhatsApp now, so Iwas able to call, text my family
whenever, of course, theydidn't like it because of time.
You know, nine hour time change, they're like mother, it is six
in the morning.
I'm like I know, I'm trying tocatch you, so you know.
(23:15):
So I really I got to talk to myfamily and I got to, and I
think the thing that's sovaluable about that is because
when you do, it's not how's theweather, right, it's, it's
deeper conversations.
Catch me up.
What's going on?
Speaker 1 (23:30):
in your life Right.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
And um, and I feel like sometimes, in some ways, I
had better conversations with uma lot of those you know and and
my daughter-in-law well, she'smy son's fiance at the time Well
, not quite, she was hisgirlfriend.
She flew over to Kuwait, stayedat my house.
He came over, I had helped himpick out a ring, and so they got
(23:52):
engaged in my little apartmentin Kuwait and I didn't, I didn't
know that.
Yes, Very cool.
And then we, um and Jessica, my, my daughter-in-law.
Now we, we, we kind ofcoordinated at the end of the
year or so that she went with meand we took a whole tour of
Italy and then we came back toKuwait, got her stuff and went
(24:16):
home.
So it was, it was just, I mean,to me I think it was a lot more
meaningful experiences.
I think that's what you get outof travel in general.
More meaningful experiences.
I think that's what you get outof travel in general when you
have your heart open and youreyes out of your phone.
I think that that is what lifeis about, is those meaningful
moments and being able to listento God's leading, and I think
(24:40):
that I was able to be able toheal that way.
I was able to listen to a lotof great sermons, dive into so
those those quote unquote lonelymoments that you were talking
about, where I couldn't gethomesick.
I was.
I was able to just hey, this ismy, this is my prayer time,
this is my Bible Bible time.
And I'll tell you my.
(25:01):
I wasn't used to the bellsgoing off, and if you've ever
been in the Middle East, you'llunderstand that they have bells
going off every time they'resupposed to pray in their
churches and then they havesomebody coming over the
loudspeaker and speaking inArabic, but to an American it
sounds like you know, and I'mjust like what just happened,
and my apartment was reallyclose, so at like 11 at night
(25:24):
the first night.
I got there.
It's going off and I'm thinkingwhat does that mean?
Is that like a tornado drill?
I don't know what this is right.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
We're from Texas, so it's a tornado drill for us.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
I'm just like what is happening, and then I'm looking
out all the windows trying tofigure out oh, it's coming from
that mosque.
Okay, obviously this must be aprayer thing, right.
So.
But it woke me up, scared meand I, and then I got to the
point where I just sleep throughit.
So I but when you have stufflike that in your head, if you
(25:58):
will, or just like because Imean that was several times
throughout the day, you wouldhear this it's a good reminder
of just praying for to yourHeavenly Father, right and go.
You know what I can do, that Ican pray.
I don't have to get down andface a certain way, but I can
pray, and I think that that was.
(26:18):
It was just a really wonderfulthing.
And I'll tell you, I was walkinginto work one day and one of
the nannies, one of the cleaners, she was in the bathroom and
she was singing him a Filipinolady, and she was singing him
and I walked in.
I was like I know that him andthey have large little pockets
(26:39):
of like Filipino churches andGreek Orthodox churches and
greek orthodox churches andindian churches that are
christian churches that theyhave, that they meet in either
homes or different things likethat and and that is.
It was such so sweet, right, sosweet to hear that I have grown
up in the bible.
I mean, I've grown up in theunited states and then I've
(27:01):
raised my children in the BibleBelt.
Can't tell you that I've everheard anybody singing a hymn at
work, you know, and it was very.
It just touched me in a reallysweet way.
So I mean, those are themoments that I said God gives
you in the midst of this worldand when we want to think what
(27:22):
we think about other places inthe world.
I'm just here to say sometimeswe need to rethink those places,
because God has people thatlove him in lots of pockets of
this world about places that arenot true.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
They're just based on what little media information
we've gathered or pastexperiences that we've heard
about.
And, like you said, there's asaying there's just kindness
everywhere.
You just have to look for it.
And I believe that as well.
And I think you also expressbeing open, know being open,
having this open heart and mindtoo, is important.
To see that, but also toreceive that you know without
(28:11):
judgment.
So I would imagine you knowyou've given little hints that
over these two years, while youwere in Kuwait, that it sounds
like you began your healingprocess.
You know when you went to leaveafter those two years, how
different did you feel?
You know, from a emotional,physical, you know all that
(28:33):
stuff that you were dealing withbeforehand to now you're two
years in what were well, I guesswhat you know, what changes did
you see in yourself?
And then you know when you cameback, I guess, the re-entry
they call it right.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Right, I think it was really interesting, I, and it's
really important to know thatthere are so many other, because
I was in an internationalschool.
I had so many different peopleI had that were that became
great friends with me, you know,from Buddhist to Mormon to you
(29:09):
know, that were just differentteachers and and we actually,
you know, had some greatopportunities from Hindu, yeah,
I, I, just I got to learn aboutso many different religions, um,
just from being there andloving on people, and I think
that that is that is our goal,and so for me, it was not only
(29:32):
did I feel loved on for justbeing a newcomer and I was, it
fed.
First of all, I'm going to backup for a minute.
It fed my professional need,because I had been drained from
our school system and just thedifferent things that were going
(29:52):
on here, and I was able to goand build up teachers and, in
the process of me trainingteachers how to do things, the
appreciation and the love andthe kindness that came back to
me, that was like, oh my gosh,Danielle, please show me more,
Please teach me more.
Right, Because we don't I don'talways have that situation in
(30:16):
the United States, right?
We sometimes have thateagerness to learn and that's
that's sad on, it's a sadcommentary on on our part.
But it was very exciting to mebecause I was going to try to
learn from them and they wantedto learn from me and because of
that I really helped myemotional wellbeing.
(30:37):
But it also helped my.
I didn't realize how low I hadgotten in my own self-esteem and
my own abilities to do my jobRight.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
And.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
I think when we get to those points we don't realize
that we're just beat up acrossthe board.
You know, when we, when we getto those low points, I would
probably have said in my 20s, ohyeah, even in high school, oh,
I'm a pretty confident person,but I think at that point I
wasn't, and so I was just like,hey, let's just dive in, let's
(31:08):
see what we got, let's see whatwe can do, and just bonding with
people and learning from themand being willing to learn from
them and wanting to learn fromyou was such a beautiful thing
that that was a very majorhealing part for me.
But also just buildingbeautiful relationships with
people from all over the worldand I you know, and just
(31:29):
listening to each other, and Ithink I think that that's what's
funny is, I don't think thatsometimes we take the time.
It was really awesome becausewe did have a lot of Muslim
holidays, so on those Muslimholidays I got to go and travel
all over the world withdifferent people, right, and you
(31:50):
just get to learn so much whenyou, when you do that and and I
think you have to go in withthat is going what can I learn,
lord?
What is it you're trying toshow me?
And I think, if have to go inwith that is going what can I
learn, lord, what is it you'retrying to show me?
And I think if you don't, ifyou close yourself off, you're
not going to get that.
And so, like I already told you,I got to learn to devour
marvelous messages and myjournaling and just all these
(32:11):
things, my prayers andeverything that I got to go
through and the people I wantedto reconcile.
You know my ex-husband Right, Iwent through all these things.
Okay, um started praying forhim.
Um, just total, um, spiritualhealing, right and emotional
(32:33):
healing, and um.
So it was just that was what wasgoing on behind the scenes.
Right, right, my littleapartment up in the sky.
um, and overlooking the girllooking everything which was so
cool to me, because I loveheights, I love this stuff um,
and it was just, uh, justamazing.
And then I would get my venturefilled, which hadn't been
filled in quite a long time um,by going um burj khalifa when
(32:57):
I'm talking about being up highright and to Dubai and had a
fabulous trip, and a lot of thatgot paid for, because I was
working with a textbook companywho wanted me to come to a
conference in Dubai and you knowwind and dined me and they did
so wonderful and it was, it wasamazing, and you know.
(33:18):
So, like I said, I can go onand on.
There's so many things that Godjust orchestrated in my life
and when you are able to just,and in the moment, sometimes you
don't see it, but when you sitback and you're journaling or
you're, reading.
God's word, or you're singing orwhatever.
That is what you're seeing,that God is filling your soul,
Right, and so that was all greatI did.
(33:41):
To be honest, I did come backwith some health issues, but a
lot of that had to do with myage and my hormones and I, I
gotta say I really miss mysocialized medicine because
everything was paid for over theback year.
So, but you know, um, but that,that was that's how it played
(34:02):
out.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Well, and often distance, you know, or getting
out of our normal, our comfortzones, propels us forward and
you know new experiences,healing whatever is needed.
We see things differently andyeah, so I love that you did
that.
Now I don't what advice wouldyou give to a woman?
Speaker 2 (34:27):
traveling.
I think you need to go in withan open mind and an open heart
and there's things you're goingto see, like when you go to a
third world country, that justbreak your heart and you just
have to just pray because youcan't fix that for them.
But there's also things thatyou're going to see there's just
going to be the sweetest peoplein the world and I met this
(34:49):
wonderful Jordanian family.
Such a blessing.
He was our tour guide.
He showed us all over Jordan.
By the way, jordan is beautiful.
You cannot I cannot express theDead Sea, petra.
Those are must, must, do's.
Of course, everybody says I doI just to do, to buy Right.
I mean, if you're going to bein the Middle East, go to Dubai.
(35:10):
It's got so many amazing thingsand Bahrain and Qatar are now
trying to compete with Dubai alittle bit.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
They're doing a lot of cool things.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Oman has a world all of its own.
It's like a little sea villagedown in the Gulf and Indian
Ocean and it's very sweet people.
So they all have different.
I think, kind of, if you go todifferent States in the United
States, you get a different feel, right and um.
(35:41):
I just like, if you go todifferent countries and even
though they're all part of themiddle East, they all have a
different um feel to them.
And it's funny because if youwould have asked me three, four
years ago if I would ever wantto travel to the middle East, I
was like, oh, not interested.
Thank you, um and um.
But you know God, god worksthings in mysterious ways, right
(36:05):
and um.
So my advice is just definitely, if you have those
opportunities and it opens up,go, because you never know what
you're going to, um and.
But, like I said, go with anopen heart, go with an open mind
, because you never know howit's going to play out for you.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Yes, well, danielle, this has been an amazing time
and I just so appreciate allyour honesty and and opening up
about your experience and justI'm thankful for your healing.
That happened.
So thank you so much for beinghere and I thank you for having
me.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
I'm so excited to share with your people.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
So much fun.
Yes, thank you again All right,bye-bye, bye.
What an incredible story ofunlikely place to find healing
with Danielle.
I love it and I know for a factand I've experienced it myself
that healing can come in thosestrangest places, and travel can
(37:06):
play a part of that.
As listeners of my podcast, Iwould love to help you find
healing If you find yourself ina place of struggling with past
grief, trauma, anything that hasplaced you in a place that you
feel stuck and you know you wantto move on.
(37:27):
I'm here to provide travelcoaching.
As a certified travel coach.
I have a new program I amlaunching.
I'm thrilled to offer it upstarting the end of May, but
right now I am taking names.
I encourage you to book a callto get on the waiting list for
when this program launches, andso this is a program that's
(37:49):
going to offer you coaching tohelp guide you through and also
help you utilize travel as atool for your healing journey.
So I hope you will book a call.
I will put the link in the shownotes.
This is a free call and it'sjust to assess whether the
program is right for you and toget your name and information on
(38:13):
the wait list so that when itreleases the end of May, you'll
be able to sign up for thatprogram right away.
All right, sister travelers,get out there and have those
adventures.
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