July 29, 2025 • 27 mins
Can technology fix what politics can't? Steven Orr reveals how Japan's biometric systems process immigrants in minutes while the U.S. still demands physical photos. With 3.7 million court cases and judges handling 4,500 each, guests explore how AI and blockchain could revolutionize immigration processing. From personal stories of USCIS bureaucracy to legislative gridlock, this episode presents concrete solutions—automated case review, digital verification, and enforcement reform—that could transform our medieval system overnight.
Timestamps:
- (00:00) Opening: From Medieval to Modern
- (00:45) Biometrics in Action: Japan's Immigration Success
- (02:00) The Technology Gap: Physical Photos in 2025
- (02:24) 3.7 Million Cases: AI as the Solution
- (07:26) Legislative Gridlock: Why Bills Die in Congress
- (08:50) Personal Story: Steven's Wife's Immigration Journey
- (10:20) E-Verify and Blockchain: Tomorrow's Tools Today
Connect:
- Steven E. Orr: X - https://x.com/qmbigbeat
- LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/qmbigbeat/
📢 Solving America’s Problems Podcast – Real Solutions For Real Issues
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Alex (00:00):
"Problems identified, now for solutions.
A CEO fighting trafficking, a Wall Streetveteran who lived the bureaucracy—their
tech ideas align beautifully untildeeper philosophical divides surface.
Sometimes fixing systemsmeans confronting worldviews."
Jerremy Newsome (00:20):
Steven, you were shaking your head earlier when David was
saying that would be really expensive.
What's your general first thought on that?
Steven Orr (00:27):
Yeah, there's two thoughts on that and two separate sections.
The first one for me is, when I wentto Japan not too long ago, we all know
how when we go through the customsbordering customs as biometrics.
So you put your paw prints down andon both sides, and they know who
you are almost immediately, right?
They don't have to, there'sno question about it.
So on the first side ofthat is technology, right?
We need to have bettertechnology at the borders.
(00:49):
It's not show me your passportand let some border agent decide
whether or not you can come in.
It's automatic, right?
And the second side of that is that wetalked about this earlier, is legislation.
The new HR 1202 coming outwith Representative Morgan
Lutrell, is get passed, right?
This is the one of the stop humantrafficking of unaccompanied
Migrant Children Act.
I don't see a big push on this, right?
(01:09):
And there needs to be thesekind of pushes, Dave's right in
regards to human trafficking.
But I'm gonna put thisin real perspective.
Human trafficking is 0.2
to 0.4%
of all immigration andmigration issues, right?
So it's a very small port, and let'scrush that criminal aspect of it, right?
But it is coming.
It is happening, right?
(01:29):
The majority of peoplecoming across the border.
I want to know who they are, butat the same time, it's just such
a crushing blow to families.
We gotta separate them because oneperson's on the track an F1 Visa
and the other person's on the trackfor a work visa or a green card.
It has to be a little bit more lenientsituation where they're coming in now.
On the flip side of that,yeah, there's criminals.
(01:51):
Yeah, there's problems happening,but it's not the majority issue
that's happening with immigration.
We're sending back people thatactually are doing the work.
We now have situations that peopledon't even wanna go to work.
Dave, just told you that he doesn'twant to go because there's an ice issue,
that the slow down of a building of ahome should not be happening because
someone's scared about their job.
(02:12):
Yeah.
I agree with him when he says that,they're spending it on beer money and
not on getting their visas correctly.
That's a problem.
And they need to have some help with that.
But we have the technologytoday to speed this up.
4,300 cases.
You just said Jerremy infront of the per judge.
What would AI do to those applications?
We could go through them, notin days and years in minutes.
(02:35):
That's the whole key there.
And that's a problem, right?
So technology should besolving one side of it.
And on the other side of it, weshould have some kind of push
against the government and not justin the voting booth every November.
It needs to be a situation where ifthese members of Congress are putting
these bills to the house and theSenate floor, let's get 'em passed.
You're talking about some of themost powerful people in Congress,
(02:57):
Chuck Grassley can't get passed.
Immigration Parole Reform Act of 2025.
Chuck Grassley of Iowa.
Come on, Chuck.
Jerremy Newsome (03:05):
Yeah.
Steven Orr (03:05):
personally.
The visible act by by representativeSenator, now Senator Alex Padilla.
And Corey Booker.
These are two of the most powerfulpeople in the Senate, and they
can't get these bills passed.
And from Dave's perspective TomLantos is on the Human Rights
Commission chair, chaired by bothJim McGovern and Chris Smith.
Two very powerful people.
Massachusetts and New Jersey.
So I think that the problemis it's not on the forefront.
(03:26):
And the first things out of Dave andJerremy, you guys said this today,
was that 75% of people, this ison the forefront of their tongue.
50% of them believe in it.
And yet we can't get thesethings passed in Congress.
'cause the most importantthing is tariffs right now.
Or the most important no.
Now, if you're saying that 3% of theGDP of Canada is being pushed up and
(03:47):
we're losing GDP because of immigrationand migration, we have our issue here.
And when and the otherside of the court side is.
It's, that's a slap on the hand.
Human trafficking shouldnot be a slap on the hand.
It should be right to the gallows boys.
Jerremy Newsome (03:59):
Correct.
Steven Orr (03:59):
you're doing human trafficking there's no if and or buts
you don't get my former president,bill Clinton, my former boss, there's
no three strikes and you're out.
There should be one strike and you're out.
If you're caught human trafficking, thereshouldn't be a question mark about it.
It should go right here.
Do not pass, go do not collect $200.
Jerremy Newsome (04:15):
See you later.
Steven Orr (04:16):
Because we have a problem here.
But the biggest problem is it'salso stopping good immigration.
It's stopping some of theproblems that we have.
It is not round themup and send them back.
It can't be that way.
'cause if we round 'em up and sendthem back, then you're rounding up the
good and the bad and you can't, andwhen I look at our own criminality in
the United States, how many people arein jail compared to other countries?
(04:38):
We have one of the highest incarcerationrates in the United States.
So it's not an issue of criminality,it's an issue of morality, right?
The morality of our government andthe morality of the people coming in.
There has to be a balance.
And how do we balance that outand simply through the courts?
And if the courts are backed up, howdo we help the courts through AI and
through technology, and how do we helpthe courts by helping the government get
(05:02):
legislation passed in order to enforce it?
So I think there's a fairly easyway, a path here, but I think the
problem is, it's being put on theback burner because more important
I don't know what to do, so let'sjust round 'em up and throw 'em away.
That's just not how we are as a country.
As I said earlier, the states of Liberty.
Liberty says that it's not whowe are as a country trying to
move forward with technology.
(05:22):
You, I'm a country trying tomove and to be progressive.
This is not what America's about.
Jerremy Newsome (05:26):
I like the take that we don't use enough technology,
at least to as of right now, right?
I mean, it's 2025.
There's certain ways, and I know Mr.
Conley, you wanna say something, butthere's, there's extremely easy and
effective ways at least start speedingsomething up in the government and, uh,
implementing some of these strategically,technologies that are currently
(05:47):
available for everyone right now.
Like, why not start using them?
Dave Conley (05:49):
I question, look, there's no doubt in my mind that our current
system is medieval and there's an aspectof this where it's just saying, oh, we
need to add more legislation to this.
Part of that doesn't make anysense to me in the sense that.
Look like Florida is the onlystate that requires E-Verify.
(06:12):
It's the only borderstate that requires it.
And E-Verify is very basic.
You plug in the information of either aVisa or your social security number and it
says, Hey, can work in the United States.
And it's the only one, right?
All of these laws already exist, right?
The president isn't.
Technically outside of the laws, andthose laws are being tested in the
(06:37):
courts because it is pushing boundaries.
But those boundaries neededto be tested anyways, because
nobody's ever tried these things.
The last piece of legislationwas DACA under Obama, and we
already talked about Obama.
Obama was a slew of, I worked duringthe Obama administration in the
administration, and he was very, hewas always a contradiction, right?
(06:59):
Because he was the smartestperson in the room, right?
And so everything was a contradiction.
He was the deporter in chief.
He was also, the fewest numberof green cards and daca none
of it made any sense, right?
There was no, no unifying vision aroundimmigration because there hasn't been,
since Reagan Reagan was the last bigpiece of legislation that went through.
(07:22):
Otherwise, it's been just a,just hap So I I'm questioning.
Do we need more legislation?
Is it just like working the legislationwe have or do we need more of it?
Jerremy Newsome (07:33):
Yeah and here's my overarching point that I would
love for you guys to chat about too.
I think it's less legislationfrom one specific entity.
So me and Dave Conley in our lastepisode I threw out a really crazy idea.
What if the house representativesdid their job crazy right?
And unbelievable, right?
(07:55):
Because so far Dave and Steven, you bothmentioned presidents and that is, and
has been for over 25 years, the mainperson that controls the ebb and flow of
the ideation of immigration and policy.
And I think that's a problem becauseultimately you have one person who
(08:17):
probably has very little experiencewith immigration and that's okay.
You can't be an immigrant andthe president, I get that.
But at the same instance, just thefact that it all boils down to that
one person seems very pigeonholed.
And I think it would be very realistic togo, all right, representatives, solve it.
(08:42):
Enjoy.
Steven Orr (08:43):
mean the president of the United States who's married to
Melania, who is an immigrant herself?
Jerremy Newsome (08:48):
Correct.
Yeah.
Steven Orr (08:50):
Yeah.
This touches on everybody's life, right?
Lemme put it this way.
When I, my own personal right?
With Catherine, when we wentto U-S-C-I-S, she was already
green card holder, visa holder.
She had everything and all thedocuments ready to go, and we still
had to go in front of U-S-C-I-S, right?
We still had to go in front of thatofficer to, to say, yes, you two can get
married, so please bring us pictures.
(09:12):
Okay?
So both of us had our cell phones with us.
We both had a USB, and the guy saysyou need to bring in physical pictures.
Oh, yes.
This has been almost two decades agowhen Catherine and I have gotten married.
But physical pictures like then hegoes maybe, okay, I'll approve this.
(09:33):
I will approve this even thoughyou don't have the pictures.
We'll, show me on your phone.
Show me your digital stuff, right?
Here we are, 16 years later afterbeing married now, and, I look at
the system and it's still the same.
Bring us your physical pictures, right?
And we're still having to go in frontof A-U-S-C-I-S person to approve us.
(09:54):
The technology can fix that.
We don't even need todo that anymore, right?
Just send us and I think you're right.
E-Verify should be everywhere.
That's first and foremost.
Get a social security number.
Anybody gets social securitynumber these days, right?
So that should be too hard.
And I, but a biometric takes nothing.
It is here.
Fingerprints.
Here's some little bit of, alittle bit of your background.
You'll know immediately who you are, butI'll tell you what, Jerremy, if you talk
(10:15):
about it from a perspective of the newblockchain, the heck outta this, right?
Every person is ablockchain number, right?
You can't make that up.
You can't change it.
So now we can follow it.
Technology can fix alot of these problems.
And when I look at you say, don't youknow, we don't need more legislation.
We don't.
Enforcement of the legislation thatwe have today would do a whole,
(10:37):
would do a lot of wonders, right?
And I think that's one of the things thatwe did say, and we're not seeing that.
And I think that's what Dave hereis concerned about that we don't
have the enforcement of these,it's this catch and release issue.
But there's also Zoe Loflinrepresentative from California is also
working out with one, and I look itup, farm Workforce Modernization Act.
All right, so you're a migrantcoming in to pick whatever it should
(10:59):
be a temporary visa get you in.
And guess what?
You go in and you go out you do themigrant farm workforce thing, and then
you leave and then you build a reputation.
And we know we're the, we throughthe blockchain or through AI or
whatever, we want to use biometrics.
We know, okay, this person'sbeen here for a few months, they
didn't make any criminality.
They went back home.
They came back, okay.
And you're creating a blueprint for howto bring others in, in a direct way.
(11:23):
But right now we have this, it'sjust slam it, throw 'em in a, throw
'em in a cell and send them back.
And that's not who we are as a country.
Especially in a situation where, the,economic force behind this is really
Jerremy Newsome (11:34):
Passive.
Steven Orr (11:35):
to a lot of people.
Jerremy Newsome (11:36):
Yep.
David Williams (11:36):
also have to go back and look at the fact that we weren't
responsible for the past four years.
We weren't showing anykind of responsibility.
We've got California who was shiftingwater because of some salamander,
which was also shifting water away fromfarmland, which was meaning that we were
producing less crops, yet we're bringingin more migrant workers to work the fields
(11:58):
that we don't have as much output in.
So now we're creating a situation wherewe have unemployment, we're creating more
demand on the local government to support.
Report these people atthe cost of home safety.
My girlfriend lives literally threeblocks from Pacific Palisades.
I can drive over there now.
I couldn't up until recently,and it looked like a fricking
(12:20):
war zone because they didn't haveenough water to put out the fires.
And millions and millions ofdollars of homes, billions of
dollars of homes went up in smoke.
And to this day, a lot of thosepeople can't move back in that
did have homes saved because ofcontamination in the water and lack
of electricity and everything else.
But the point is,newsom's got an open door.
(12:43):
Come on in.
California will accept you.
We're a sanctuary state, but wedon't have enough water to fuel the
crops that you're coming to pick.
So now we're gonna put you onunemployment and we're gonna strain
our welfare system here, and we'regonna put your kids in our schools.
And yet you're not being productive.
We're just giving you the money.
You can't sit there and say weacted so irresponsibly now let's
(13:07):
continue to be irresponsible and notremove these people didn't come in.
You can't just put tax the systemover and over again and say it's okay.
When you've been so absolutely egregiouslyirresponsible for the past five years,
there's gotta be some major movement.
and I apologize to those families that aregetting caught up in the mess, but I think
(13:32):
as we spoke about earlier, maybe it'sthe five year, maybe it's the 10 year.
Time spent in the US that weseparate this for the short term.
there has to be a quick and Iagree with you Steven if we use
ai, absolutely, man, let's use it.
Let's process this stuff a hellof a lot faster, what we're doing.
Maybe that's how we separate,the cream rises the top and
(13:52):
we use the AI system to do it.
And I do agree, we do absolutelyneed more enforcement.
We had zero enforcementthe past five years, zero.
we acted as irresponsibleas a country could act.
And now we're paying for it.
And we're paying for it in a huge way.
And I can't even drive into downtownla after dark, I can't, I, it's taking,
(14:16):
everybody's lives in, and putting itin apparel because it is that bad.
It's horrible.
Sarah and I can walk down a streetin Santa Monica because they
police it pretty well and theykeep the homeless out of there.
But you go down to the beachwhere it's state land you
don't go down there after dark.
I'll tell you that right nowbecause it is a homeless camp and
(14:36):
a lot of it is illegal immigrants.
I hear what you're saying, Steven,but at the same time, we're not a
country that can act as irresponsiblyas we have the past five years.
We have to do something to make up for it.
Steven Orr (14:48):
Yeah.
One thing she just mentionedwas, California's use of
water in that situation.
80% of California's waterright now used for what?
Agriculture, right?
Almonds
Dave Conley (14:57):
Almonds.
Steven Orr (14:58):
and pastures, I can listen.
I can tell you all thedifferent crops in California,
Dave Conley (15:02):
Yeah.
Steven Orr (15:02):
not water usage by homes and guess who works
those fields in California?
David Williams (15:07):
But you're not hearing what I said when I started Steven.
Our production is down becausewe've had a shortage of water.
We are producing less agriculture than wehave the past 20 years, and we're bringing
in more workers to work the fields.
That's what's taxing in oursystem is you can't keep putting
more people at a problem whenyou've got a declining, industry.
You've gotta fix the industry first.
(15:29):
So
Steven Orr (15:30):
industry that you talk about, you're talking
about agriculture in general in
David Williams (15:34):
agriculture in general.
Steven Orr (15:35):
Yeah.
When you look at ag around the world,and of course I grew up in southern
Illinois, so I grew up in corn fields.
I grew up around all of the ag.
I learned commodities at a very youngage, 16 to 18, I learned commodities.
I learned how it all worked.
And when I look at agriculture waspulled up outta the ground, whether
it's corn crops or whether that'salmonds or down here now, oranges,
(15:58):
picked oranges those crops changed.
And the who picks them andhow they're picked today.
I just argued a few minutes ago thatit's gonna be about technology, right?
That in tech, in the future, we won't evenneed people picking any of those things.
It'll be done by a machine.
John Deere's working onall of those things now.
And as we grow as a country andwe progress and we don't need
migrants picking, those migrantswill be doing other jobs.
(16:21):
They'll be either flipping hamburgersand when the ai, and then when the
technology grows from that, we won'tneed them doing that either because
the machine will flip the burger.
So migration is not an immigration.
It's not about what's going on now.
It's about the future.
We have to think about our problem nowto, to solve it, but for the future.
Yeah, we've had a problemwith criminality in the past.
We have, and still do.
(16:41):
We have a problem with gettingthem in now with biometrics, our
technology is behind, but technologycould solve a lot of the problems
that we haven't done in the future.
When we first invented the car,it gave people the ability to
go outside of the cities, right?
But where was the biggestmigration into the country?
Into the cities.
If you think about New York, it was thebiggest influx of Irish in the world.
(17:02):
At what?
At one time.
Why?
Because they had a fam.
And at that time, New Yorkhated the Irish people.
It was terrible.
We don't want to go back to thosekind of days where we hate the
influx of whoever's coming in Today.
It's the southern border tomorrow.
It's the eastern border.
What we have to think about is how we getthem to integrate in a way that integrates
into our psyche of this country.
David Williams (17:22):
Right.
Steven Orr (17:22):
I know one of the things that Obama did and I didn't always agree
with it, but when we had this issuewith Somalia, he put them in Minnesota.
Then it became Somaliansversus Minnesotans.
That became a big problem.
You can't just try tohide your immigration.
They're gonna go wherethey want to go anyway.
The question is tracking them,making sure that everything's good
and they're productive and they'rebeing adding to the production of
(17:44):
the United States or in our case.
And I think a lot of people are concernedabout social security too as well.
'cause there's journey insocial security with those.
But I think if you look at thefuture, I think we do not have as
a country, a plan for technologyto be implemented, to track, to
biometric, to the ai, to all of this.
And I think we have a goodopportunity right now to do that.
yet our biggest concernright now is tariffs.
(18:05):
Our biggest concern is it neat?
And the first thing outta Jerremyand Dan's mouth was, Hey it's on the
forefront of everybody thinking here.
So I think for us, I think we needto take that, and I'm looking forward
to Jerremy saying, answer thisquestion, but when do we do this?
Do we do it today or do we waitthree months, five years from now
and hope that things work out?
(18:26):
I don't think that's the case.
I think this is very on the forefrontburner of what needs to get done
and it needs to get happens.
Now or before we could have abreakout of a civil war, right?
In a lot of ways, and I don't meancivil wars and guns and people
fighting each other, but in a waythat we already are a divided country.
It's a very divided country.
And the one and the things thatdivide us are the things that
(18:46):
make the pendulum swing so far.
And one of them was immigration, right?
And the other thing was the economy andwe thought it was sleepy, Joe Biden.
And now we've got a presidentwho's just too, not understanding
the psyche of the United States.
So the problem here is we keepswinging back and forth instead of
having a middle area trying to createthe next level of the United States.
And I look at this country in generaland I look at what needs to happen
(19:08):
in order to us to progress, right?
We need migration, we needimmigration to be on the right path.
It's not gonna work.
If we don't have immigration,we will fall apart.
Elon Musk told you that right now.
You have, you already, it'salready seeing that in Europe.
They're already cutting rates becausetheir GDP is falling apart right now.
Our GDP is already slowing down andTrump is already upset about the
inflation rate coming down and hecan't get the rates to come down.
(19:30):
He's already upset.
So what do we do in the nextyear or two to make this happen?
And I think we need pressure the lawmakersthat are behind this, and then pressure
enforcement and then pressure the courtsbehind it or nothing's gonna happen.
Dave Conley (19:42):
Let me ask you this and to, to David's point.
Big round numbers forabout the last 50 years.
We've had about a million people we'llsay, legally immigrate into get through
this Byzantine system and actuallyimmigrated to the United States.
They got all their paperwork andthey got all their visas, about a
million people to become permanentresidents in the United States.
(20:03):
And then about a million people ontop of that have been undocumented.
And that's been true for about 50 years.
Those are the numbers,a million and a million,
Steven Orr (20:13):
Yep.
Dave Conley (20:14):
except for the last four years where not entirely sure.
We know that there was about 9 million.
Touch points at the borders,
That's very incomplete andthat's often like the same
person, like three or four times.
So best guess is the last fouryears, it's been about three
(20:35):
or four times that, right?
So not a million, but nowthree or 4 million think.
What would you all think of something likea pause being like, Hey, like we hear you.
What?
Last week we interviewed firstand second generation immigrants.
They were either sons and daughtersof first generation immigrants
or second generation, right?
(20:56):
Their grandparents came.
the one thing that they said,which I absolutely believe.
Is that the United States isby far the best country on the
planet assimilating differentcultures from all over the world.
Like we have more people frommore places all over the planet.
And we are so good at it that, andthey said the big thing there was
(21:20):
actually everybody just needs to learnEnglish, to and if we learn English,
like everything else comes with that.
And by the second generation,you're all American at that point.
So what would you all think tobe just like, Hey, we know it's
been big the last few years.
We know that it freaks people out, right?
Seeing a lot of change very suddenlywe know that it also inflames a certain
(21:40):
amount of racism on top of that, right?
what would you all think to be just like,okay, hey, we're gonna cool our jets,
we're gonna take the next five years.
Like we did actually in theforties, fifties and sixties and
seventies, we were like, eh, thisis gonna be a little bit of a pause.
Is that a, would that be agood idea or not so much?
David Williams (21:59):
What's a pause?
Yeah.
Steven Orr (22:02):
And how long is the pause, I think is the question
David Williams (22:04):
So I'm gonna go back to your point, Dave, in the beginning is, why
don't we start and Stevens, let's use ai,let's use the technology we have, let's
start making people line up and E-Verify.
You've got, you got 120 days, you gotsix months, whatever it is to E-Verify.
don't E-Verify yourself, then adios.
Dave Conley (22:25):
This goes back to what Steven was talking about at the beginning
of this, which was economic, right?
We have created an underclass of people.
Do not get minimum wage.
They do not have any job guarantees.
They don't have access to any kind ofbenefits if they do lose their jobs.
They are permanent underclass andthey are effectively human trafficked.
Like they can be turned over to ice.
(22:46):
They can be threatened withdeportation if they don't work
how they want to be worked.
David Williams (22:50):
In the state of California.
Steven Orr (22:51):
You, you're almost harkening back to the time of Hitler calling them.
Mentions, right?
David Williams (22:55):
No.
Steven Orr (22:56):
have a lower class of humanity in it.
Dave Conley (22:58):
Absolutely not.
David Williams (22:58):
of California, you get a job and you're not
being paid at least minimum wage.
I don't care if you'redocumented or undocumented.
If you turn that employer in fornot paying you at least minimum
wage, that employer's going to paythe penalty, not that employee.
So yeah, you don't have that.
The actual immigrant, non-documentedworker has just as many rights in
(23:23):
California as a documented worker doeswhen it comes to pay and benefits.
And the state of Californiawill say, you know what?
You're gonna get unemploymentnow you're undocumented.
And that's what's goingon here in this state.
And I hear what Steven was sayingabout, hey, cornfield's in southern
Illinois and my kids played,baseball through the Midwest.
(23:45):
I've been through a lot of cornfieldsin Kansas and everything else.
I see it all out there.
And you know what?
Cornfield's getting picked by machines.
I get it.
It doesn't mean, Hey, let's pausethe world and pay for 13, 14
million illegal immigrants untilour technology catches up with it.
(24:05):
Or until we no longer need thatworkforce, what are we gonna do with them?
Train 14 million people on a new job.
We acted so irresponsiblythe past five years
Steven Orr (24:17):
have.
David Williams (24:17):
that we have to take drastic measures.
And I think the only thing that Icould agree with is let's use ai, let's
separate those that have been herefor 10, 15 years that are productive.
And I'm sorry if you don't fit inthat class, you've got 60 days,
90 days to exit the country and ifyou can't do it, we'll help you.
Steven Orr (24:37):
Yeah, but Dave, if I told you that right now in the
United States, there are 10 millionjobs available right now and only
6 million can actually fill 'em in.
And guess who's filling them in?
Nobody.
Nobody wants to do those jobs.
The migrants are coming herebecause they just said earlier
that we are the envy of the world.
So when they come here, they'relooking for a better life.
And I agree with that.
(24:58):
I have
David Williams (24:58):
if I do your math and I think your math's way off that
only 26,000 kids were brought intothis country that are undocumented.
That are being trafficked, that are beingsold and raped eight to nine times a day.
that doesn't make you sick.
And you don't say, oh, I'm sorry.
That's just a small percentageof the people that came across.
Let's not focus on that.
Steven Orr (25:17):
No, I,
David Williams (25:18):
bs.
I call bs.
I say, you know what, send 'em all out andbring 'em back in the proper way because
I'm not gonna sit by and watch somekid get raped eight to 10 times a day.
I don't care if it's one.
And if it were for your kids, you'dhave a whole different perspective.
Steven Orr (25:33):
I think the first thing I said about that is that if you're criminally
caught, you should be hang the gallows.
I think that was exactlythe words that I said.
David Williams (25:40):
I agree with you.
But you also said right beforethat, It was only about, 0.002%
Steven Orr (25:47):
So you're
David Williams (25:47):
only.
Only about.
Steven Orr (25:49):
I don't, when you throw the baby outta the bath water, that's
like saying that we should, whenI look at the country in general,
and I say, okay, I understand it.
There's some really bad thingshappening in the world, but believe
it or not, there are some reallygood people here too, Dave, and we're
doing some really good things in this
David Williams (26:06):
I I told you I work with them
Steven Orr (26:08):
stop creating technology because maybe there's
some bad people that are hackers.
That it's not, it doesn't add,it's not apples and oranges.
Here.
I've said this a million times andI'm probably harder on those, the
criminality side of things than anybody.
I'm the one that doesn't give 'emthe gallows, send 'em off the,
David Williams (26:23):
and I'm working with those guys.
I'm working with those guys now,some of which are undocumented.
I'm sure I'm paying 'em a subcontractor,so I don't have to see that verification.
That's up to the sub to do.
But I know what I'm hearing from them.
We've had this conversation over thepast 60 days not six months ago, not
six years ago, over the past 60 days.
'cause we started thisproject about the 8th of July.
(26:45):
And those that are documented,Hispanics documented are saying,
telling everybody go get documented.
If you're not screw you, you shouldget kicked outta the country.
I've got a Israeli general contractorwho's married to an American who had
two kids in Israel, and they had to gothrough that whole vetting process, and
(27:07):
the kids had to be verified to be theirsand all, they went through that process
and they're saying the same thing.
Alex (27:12):
"Tech solutions and personal stories expose system flaws, but implementation
means facing who benefits from broken.
Next (27:18):
frustrations boil as California reality clashes with national
philosophy, testing limits head-on."
"Problems identified, now for solutions.
A CEO fighting trafficking, a Wall Streetveteran who lived the bureaucracy—their
tech ideas align beautifully untildeeper philosophical divides surface.
Sometimes fixing systemsmeans confronting worldviews."
Jerremy Newsome (00:20):
Steven, you were shaking your head earlier when David was
saying that would be really expensive.
What's your general first thought on that?
Steven Orr (00:27):
Yeah, there's two thoughts on that and two separate sections.
The first one for me is, when I wentto Japan not too long ago, we all know
how when we go through the customsbordering customs as biometrics.
So you put your paw prints down andon both sides, and they know who
you are almost immediately, right?
They don't have to, there'sno question about it.
So on the first side ofthat is technology, right?
We need to have bettertechnology at the borders.
(00:49):
It's not show me your passportand let some border agent decide
whether or not you can come in.
It's automatic, right?
And the second side of that is that wetalked about this earlier, is legislation.
The new HR 1202 coming outwith Representative Morgan
Lutrell, is get passed, right?
This is the one of the stop humantrafficking of unaccompanied
Migrant Children Act.
I don't see a big push on this, right?
(01:09):
And there needs to be thesekind of pushes, Dave's right in
regards to human trafficking.
But I'm gonna put thisin real perspective.
Human trafficking is 0.2
to 0.4%
of all immigration andmigration issues, right?
So it's a very small port, and let'scrush that criminal aspect of it, right?
But it is coming.
It is happening, right?
(01:29):
The majority of peoplecoming across the border.
I want to know who they are, butat the same time, it's just such
a crushing blow to families.
We gotta separate them because oneperson's on the track an F1 Visa
and the other person's on the trackfor a work visa or a green card.
It has to be a little bit more lenientsituation where they're coming in now.
On the flip side of that,yeah, there's criminals.
(01:51):
Yeah, there's problems happening,but it's not the majority issue
that's happening with immigration.
We're sending back people thatactually are doing the work.
We now have situations that peopledon't even wanna go to work.
Dave, just told you that he doesn'twant to go because there's an ice issue,
that the slow down of a building of ahome should not be happening because
someone's scared about their job.
(02:12):
Yeah.
I agree with him when he says that,they're spending it on beer money and
not on getting their visas correctly.
That's a problem.
And they need to have some help with that.
But we have the technologytoday to speed this up.
4,300 cases.
You just said Jerremy infront of the per judge.
What would AI do to those applications?
We could go through them, notin days and years in minutes.
(02:35):
That's the whole key there.
And that's a problem, right?
So technology should besolving one side of it.
And on the other side of it, weshould have some kind of push
against the government and not justin the voting booth every November.
It needs to be a situation where ifthese members of Congress are putting
these bills to the house and theSenate floor, let's get 'em passed.
You're talking about some of themost powerful people in Congress,
(02:57):
Chuck Grassley can't get passed.
Immigration Parole Reform Act of 2025.
Chuck Grassley of Iowa.
Come on, Chuck.
Jerremy Newsome (03:05):
Yeah.
Steven Orr (03:05):
personally.
The visible act by by representativeSenator, now Senator Alex Padilla.
And Corey Booker.
These are two of the most powerfulpeople in the Senate, and they
can't get these bills passed.
And from Dave's perspective TomLantos is on the Human Rights
Commission chair, chaired by bothJim McGovern and Chris Smith.
Two very powerful people.
Massachusetts and New Jersey.
So I think that the problemis it's not on the forefront.
(03:26):
And the first things out of Dave andJerremy, you guys said this today,
was that 75% of people, this ison the forefront of their tongue.
50% of them believe in it.
And yet we can't get thesethings passed in Congress.
'cause the most importantthing is tariffs right now.
Or the most important no.
Now, if you're saying that 3% of theGDP of Canada is being pushed up and
(03:47):
we're losing GDP because of immigrationand migration, we have our issue here.
And when and the otherside of the court side is.
It's, that's a slap on the hand.
Human trafficking shouldnot be a slap on the hand.
It should be right to the gallows boys.
Jerremy Newsome (03:59):
Correct.
Steven Orr (03:59):
you're doing human trafficking there's no if and or buts
you don't get my former president,bill Clinton, my former boss, there's
no three strikes and you're out.
There should be one strike and you're out.
If you're caught human trafficking, thereshouldn't be a question mark about it.
It should go right here.
Do not pass, go do not collect $200.
Jerremy Newsome (04:15):
See you later.
Steven Orr (04:16):
Because we have a problem here.
But the biggest problem is it'salso stopping good immigration.
It's stopping some of theproblems that we have.
It is not round themup and send them back.
It can't be that way.
'cause if we round 'em up and sendthem back, then you're rounding up the
good and the bad and you can't, andwhen I look at our own criminality in
the United States, how many people arein jail compared to other countries?
(04:38):
We have one of the highest incarcerationrates in the United States.
So it's not an issue of criminality,it's an issue of morality, right?
The morality of our government andthe morality of the people coming in.
There has to be a balance.
And how do we balance that outand simply through the courts?
And if the courts are backed up, howdo we help the courts through AI and
through technology, and how do we helpthe courts by helping the government get
(05:02):
legislation passed in order to enforce it?
So I think there's a fairly easyway, a path here, but I think the
problem is, it's being put on theback burner because more important
I don't know what to do, so let'sjust round 'em up and throw 'em away.
That's just not how we are as a country.
As I said earlier, the states of Liberty.
Liberty says that it's not whowe are as a country trying to
move forward with technology.
(05:22):
You, I'm a country trying tomove and to be progressive.
This is not what America's about.
Jerremy Newsome (05:26):
I like the take that we don't use enough technology,
at least to as of right now, right?
I mean, it's 2025.
There's certain ways, and I know Mr.
Conley, you wanna say something, butthere's, there's extremely easy and
effective ways at least start speedingsomething up in the government and, uh,
implementing some of these strategically,technologies that are currently
(05:47):
available for everyone right now.
Like, why not start using them?
Dave Conley (05:49):
I question, look, there's no doubt in my mind that our current
system is medieval and there's an aspectof this where it's just saying, oh, we
need to add more legislation to this.
Part of that doesn't make anysense to me in the sense that.
Look like Florida is the onlystate that requires E-Verify.
(06:12):
It's the only borderstate that requires it.
And E-Verify is very basic.
You plug in the information of either aVisa or your social security number and it
says, Hey, can work in the United States.
And it's the only one, right?
All of these laws already exist, right?
The president isn't.
Technically outside of the laws, andthose laws are being tested in the
(06:37):
courts because it is pushing boundaries.
But those boundaries neededto be tested anyways, because
nobody's ever tried these things.
The last piece of legislationwas DACA under Obama, and we
already talked about Obama.
Obama was a slew of, I worked duringthe Obama administration in the
administration, and he was very, hewas always a contradiction, right?
(06:59):
Because he was the smartestperson in the room, right?
And so everything was a contradiction.
He was the deporter in chief.
He was also, the fewest numberof green cards and daca none
of it made any sense, right?
There was no, no unifying vision aroundimmigration because there hasn't been,
since Reagan Reagan was the last bigpiece of legislation that went through.
(07:22):
Otherwise, it's been just a,just hap So I I'm questioning.
Do we need more legislation?
Is it just like working the legislationwe have or do we need more of it?
Jerremy Newsome (07:33):
Yeah and here's my overarching point that I would
love for you guys to chat about too.
I think it's less legislationfrom one specific entity.
So me and Dave Conley in our lastepisode I threw out a really crazy idea.
What if the house representativesdid their job crazy right?
And unbelievable, right?
(07:55):
Because so far Dave and Steven, you bothmentioned presidents and that is, and
has been for over 25 years, the mainperson that controls the ebb and flow of
the ideation of immigration and policy.
And I think that's a problem becauseultimately you have one person who
(08:17):
probably has very little experiencewith immigration and that's okay.
You can't be an immigrant andthe president, I get that.
But at the same instance, just thefact that it all boils down to that
one person seems very pigeonholed.
And I think it would be very realistic togo, all right, representatives, solve it.
(08:42):
Enjoy.
Steven Orr (08:43):
mean the president of the United States who's married to
Melania, who is an immigrant herself?
Jerremy Newsome (08:48):
Correct.
Yeah.
Steven Orr (08:50):
Yeah.
This touches on everybody's life, right?
Lemme put it this way.
When I, my own personal right?
With Catherine, when we wentto U-S-C-I-S, she was already
green card holder, visa holder.
She had everything and all thedocuments ready to go, and we still
had to go in front of U-S-C-I-S, right?
We still had to go in front of thatofficer to, to say, yes, you two can get
married, so please bring us pictures.
(09:12):
Okay?
So both of us had our cell phones with us.
We both had a USB, and the guy saysyou need to bring in physical pictures.
Oh, yes.
This has been almost two decades agowhen Catherine and I have gotten married.
But physical pictures like then hegoes maybe, okay, I'll approve this.
(09:33):
I will approve this even thoughyou don't have the pictures.
We'll, show me on your phone.
Show me your digital stuff, right?
Here we are, 16 years later afterbeing married now, and, I look at
the system and it's still the same.
Bring us your physical pictures, right?
And we're still having to go in frontof A-U-S-C-I-S person to approve us.
(09:54):
The technology can fix that.
We don't even need todo that anymore, right?
Just send us and I think you're right.
E-Verify should be everywhere.
That's first and foremost.
Get a social security number.
Anybody gets social securitynumber these days, right?
So that should be too hard.
And I, but a biometric takes nothing.
It is here.
Fingerprints.
Here's some little bit of, alittle bit of your background.
You'll know immediately who you are, butI'll tell you what, Jerremy, if you talk
(10:15):
about it from a perspective of the newblockchain, the heck outta this, right?
Every person is ablockchain number, right?
You can't make that up.
You can't change it.
So now we can follow it.
Technology can fix alot of these problems.
And when I look at you say, don't youknow, we don't need more legislation.
We don't.
Enforcement of the legislation thatwe have today would do a whole,
(10:37):
would do a lot of wonders, right?
And I think that's one of the things thatwe did say, and we're not seeing that.
And I think that's what Dave hereis concerned about that we don't
have the enforcement of these,it's this catch and release issue.
But there's also Zoe Loflinrepresentative from California is also
working out with one, and I look itup, farm Workforce Modernization Act.
All right, so you're a migrantcoming in to pick whatever it should
(10:59):
be a temporary visa get you in.
And guess what?
You go in and you go out you do themigrant farm workforce thing, and then
you leave and then you build a reputation.
And we know we're the, we throughthe blockchain or through AI or
whatever, we want to use biometrics.
We know, okay, this person'sbeen here for a few months, they
didn't make any criminality.
They went back home.
They came back, okay.
And you're creating a blueprint for howto bring others in, in a direct way.
(11:23):
But right now we have this, it'sjust slam it, throw 'em in a, throw
'em in a cell and send them back.
And that's not who we are as a country.
Especially in a situation where, the,economic force behind this is really
Jerremy Newsome (11:34):
Passive.
Steven Orr (11:35):
to a lot of people.
Jerremy Newsome (11:36):
Yep.
David Williams (11:36):
also have to go back and look at the fact that we weren't
responsible for the past four years.
We weren't showing anykind of responsibility.
We've got California who was shiftingwater because of some salamander,
which was also shifting water away fromfarmland, which was meaning that we were
producing less crops, yet we're bringingin more migrant workers to work the fields
(11:58):
that we don't have as much output in.
So now we're creating a situation wherewe have unemployment, we're creating more
demand on the local government to support.
Report these people atthe cost of home safety.
My girlfriend lives literally threeblocks from Pacific Palisades.
I can drive over there now.
I couldn't up until recently,and it looked like a fricking
(12:20):
war zone because they didn't haveenough water to put out the fires.
And millions and millions ofdollars of homes, billions of
dollars of homes went up in smoke.
And to this day, a lot of thosepeople can't move back in that
did have homes saved because ofcontamination in the water and lack
of electricity and everything else.
But the point is,newsom's got an open door.
(12:43):
Come on in.
California will accept you.
We're a sanctuary state, but wedon't have enough water to fuel the
crops that you're coming to pick.
So now we're gonna put you onunemployment and we're gonna strain
our welfare system here, and we'regonna put your kids in our schools.
And yet you're not being productive.
We're just giving you the money.
You can't sit there and say weacted so irresponsibly now let's
(13:07):
continue to be irresponsible and notremove these people didn't come in.
You can't just put tax the systemover and over again and say it's okay.
When you've been so absolutely egregiouslyirresponsible for the past five years,
there's gotta be some major movement.
and I apologize to those families that aregetting caught up in the mess, but I think
(13:32):
as we spoke about earlier, maybe it'sthe five year, maybe it's the 10 year.
Time spent in the US that weseparate this for the short term.
there has to be a quick and Iagree with you Steven if we use
ai, absolutely, man, let's use it.
Let's process this stuff a hellof a lot faster, what we're doing.
Maybe that's how we separate,the cream rises the top and
(13:52):
we use the AI system to do it.
And I do agree, we do absolutelyneed more enforcement.
We had zero enforcementthe past five years, zero.
we acted as irresponsibleas a country could act.
And now we're paying for it.
And we're paying for it in a huge way.
And I can't even drive into downtownla after dark, I can't, I, it's taking,
(14:16):
everybody's lives in, and putting itin apparel because it is that bad.
It's horrible.
Sarah and I can walk down a streetin Santa Monica because they
police it pretty well and theykeep the homeless out of there.
But you go down to the beachwhere it's state land you
don't go down there after dark.
I'll tell you that right nowbecause it is a homeless camp and
(14:36):
a lot of it is illegal immigrants.
I hear what you're saying, Steven,but at the same time, we're not a
country that can act as irresponsiblyas we have the past five years.
We have to do something to make up for it.
Steven Orr (14:48):
Yeah.
One thing she just mentionedwas, California's use of
water in that situation.
80% of California's waterright now used for what?
Agriculture, right?
Almonds
Dave Conley (14:57):
Almonds.
Steven Orr (14:58):
and pastures, I can listen.
I can tell you all thedifferent crops in California,
Dave Conley (15:02):
Yeah.
Steven Orr (15:02):
not water usage by homes and guess who works
those fields in California?
David Williams (15:07):
But you're not hearing what I said when I started Steven.
Our production is down becausewe've had a shortage of water.
We are producing less agriculture than wehave the past 20 years, and we're bringing
in more workers to work the fields.
That's what's taxing in oursystem is you can't keep putting
more people at a problem whenyou've got a declining, industry.
You've gotta fix the industry first.
(15:29):
So
Steven Orr (15:30):
industry that you talk about, you're talking
about agriculture in general in
David Williams (15:34):
agriculture in general.
Steven Orr (15:35):
Yeah.
When you look at ag around the world,and of course I grew up in southern
Illinois, so I grew up in corn fields.
I grew up around all of the ag.
I learned commodities at a very youngage, 16 to 18, I learned commodities.
I learned how it all worked.
And when I look at agriculture waspulled up outta the ground, whether
it's corn crops or whether that'salmonds or down here now, oranges,
(15:58):
picked oranges those crops changed.
And the who picks them andhow they're picked today.
I just argued a few minutes ago thatit's gonna be about technology, right?
That in tech, in the future, we won't evenneed people picking any of those things.
It'll be done by a machine.
John Deere's working onall of those things now.
And as we grow as a country andwe progress and we don't need
migrants picking, those migrantswill be doing other jobs.
(16:21):
They'll be either flipping hamburgersand when the ai, and then when the
technology grows from that, we won'tneed them doing that either because
the machine will flip the burger.
So migration is not an immigration.
It's not about what's going on now.
It's about the future.
We have to think about our problem nowto, to solve it, but for the future.
Yeah, we've had a problemwith criminality in the past.
We have, and still do.
(16:41):
We have a problem with gettingthem in now with biometrics, our
technology is behind, but technologycould solve a lot of the problems
that we haven't done in the future.
When we first invented the car,it gave people the ability to
go outside of the cities, right?
But where was the biggestmigration into the country?
Into the cities.
If you think about New York, it was thebiggest influx of Irish in the world.
(17:02):
At what?
At one time.
Why?
Because they had a fam.
And at that time, New Yorkhated the Irish people.
It was terrible.
We don't want to go back to thosekind of days where we hate the
influx of whoever's coming in Today.
It's the southern border tomorrow.
It's the eastern border.
What we have to think about is how we getthem to integrate in a way that integrates
into our psyche of this country.
David Williams (17:22):
Right.
Steven Orr (17:22):
I know one of the things that Obama did and I didn't always agree
with it, but when we had this issuewith Somalia, he put them in Minnesota.
Then it became Somaliansversus Minnesotans.
That became a big problem.
You can't just try tohide your immigration.
They're gonna go wherethey want to go anyway.
The question is tracking them,making sure that everything's good
and they're productive and they'rebeing adding to the production of
(17:44):
the United States or in our case.
And I think a lot of people are concernedabout social security too as well.
'cause there's journey insocial security with those.
But I think if you look at thefuture, I think we do not have as
a country, a plan for technologyto be implemented, to track, to
biometric, to the ai, to all of this.
And I think we have a goodopportunity right now to do that.
yet our biggest concernright now is tariffs.
(18:05):
Our biggest concern is it neat?
And the first thing outta Jerremyand Dan's mouth was, Hey it's on the
forefront of everybody thinking here.
So I think for us, I think we needto take that, and I'm looking forward
to Jerremy saying, answer thisquestion, but when do we do this?
Do we do it today or do we waitthree months, five years from now
and hope that things work out?
(18:26):
I don't think that's the case.
I think this is very on the forefrontburner of what needs to get done
and it needs to get happens.
Now or before we could have abreakout of a civil war, right?
In a lot of ways, and I don't meancivil wars and guns and people
fighting each other, but in a waythat we already are a divided country.
It's a very divided country.
And the one and the things thatdivide us are the things that
(18:46):
make the pendulum swing so far.
And one of them was immigration, right?
And the other thing was the economy andwe thought it was sleepy, Joe Biden.
And now we've got a presidentwho's just too, not understanding
the psyche of the United States.
So the problem here is we keepswinging back and forth instead of
having a middle area trying to createthe next level of the United States.
And I look at this country in generaland I look at what needs to happen
(19:08):
in order to us to progress, right?
We need migration, we needimmigration to be on the right path.
It's not gonna work.
If we don't have immigration,we will fall apart.
Elon Musk told you that right now.
You have, you already, it'salready seeing that in Europe.
They're already cutting rates becausetheir GDP is falling apart right now.
Our GDP is already slowing down andTrump is already upset about the
inflation rate coming down and hecan't get the rates to come down.
(19:30):
He's already upset.
So what do we do in the nextyear or two to make this happen?
And I think we need pressure the lawmakersthat are behind this, and then pressure
enforcement and then pressure the courtsbehind it or nothing's gonna happen.
Dave Conley (19:42):
Let me ask you this and to, to David's point.
Big round numbers forabout the last 50 years.
We've had about a million people we'llsay, legally immigrate into get through
this Byzantine system and actuallyimmigrated to the United States.
They got all their paperwork andthey got all their visas, about a
million people to become permanentresidents in the United States.
(20:03):
And then about a million people ontop of that have been undocumented.
And that's been true for about 50 years.
Those are the numbers,a million and a million,
Steven Orr (20:13):
Yep.
Dave Conley (20:14):
except for the last four years where not entirely sure.
We know that there was about 9 million.
Touch points at the borders,
That's very incomplete andthat's often like the same
person, like three or four times.
So best guess is the last fouryears, it's been about three
(20:35):
or four times that, right?
So not a million, but nowthree or 4 million think.
What would you all think of something likea pause being like, Hey, like we hear you.
What?
Last week we interviewed firstand second generation immigrants.
They were either sons and daughtersof first generation immigrants
or second generation, right?
(20:56):
Their grandparents came.
the one thing that they said,which I absolutely believe.
Is that the United States isby far the best country on the
planet assimilating differentcultures from all over the world.
Like we have more people frommore places all over the planet.
And we are so good at it that, andthey said the big thing there was
(21:20):
actually everybody just needs to learnEnglish, to and if we learn English,
like everything else comes with that.
And by the second generation,you're all American at that point.
So what would you all think tobe just like, Hey, we know it's
been big the last few years.
We know that it freaks people out, right?
Seeing a lot of change very suddenlywe know that it also inflames a certain
(21:40):
amount of racism on top of that, right?
what would you all think to be just like,okay, hey, we're gonna cool our jets,
we're gonna take the next five years.
Like we did actually in theforties, fifties and sixties and
seventies, we were like, eh, thisis gonna be a little bit of a pause.
Is that a, would that be agood idea or not so much?
David Williams (21:59):
What's a pause?
Yeah.
Steven Orr (22:02):
And how long is the pause, I think is the question
David Williams (22:04):
So I'm gonna go back to your point, Dave, in the beginning is, why
don't we start and Stevens, let's use ai,let's use the technology we have, let's
start making people line up and E-Verify.
You've got, you got 120 days, you gotsix months, whatever it is to E-Verify.
don't E-Verify yourself, then adios.
Dave Conley (22:25):
This goes back to what Steven was talking about at the beginning
of this, which was economic, right?
We have created an underclass of people.
Do not get minimum wage.
They do not have any job guarantees.
They don't have access to any kind ofbenefits if they do lose their jobs.
They are permanent underclass andthey are effectively human trafficked.
Like they can be turned over to ice.
(22:46):
They can be threatened withdeportation if they don't work
how they want to be worked.
David Williams (22:50):
In the state of California.
Steven Orr (22:51):
You, you're almost harkening back to the time of Hitler calling them.
Mentions, right?
David Williams (22:55):
No.
Steven Orr (22:56):
have a lower class of humanity in it.
Dave Conley (22:58):
Absolutely not.
David Williams (22:58):
of California, you get a job and you're not
being paid at least minimum wage.
I don't care if you'redocumented or undocumented.
If you turn that employer in fornot paying you at least minimum
wage, that employer's going to paythe penalty, not that employee.
So yeah, you don't have that.
The actual immigrant, non-documentedworker has just as many rights in
(23:23):
California as a documented worker doeswhen it comes to pay and benefits.
And the state of Californiawill say, you know what?
You're gonna get unemploymentnow you're undocumented.
And that's what's goingon here in this state.
And I hear what Steven was sayingabout, hey, cornfield's in southern
Illinois and my kids played,baseball through the Midwest.
(23:45):
I've been through a lot of cornfieldsin Kansas and everything else.
I see it all out there.
And you know what?
Cornfield's getting picked by machines.
I get it.
It doesn't mean, Hey, let's pausethe world and pay for 13, 14
million illegal immigrants untilour technology catches up with it.
(24:05):
Or until we no longer need thatworkforce, what are we gonna do with them?
Train 14 million people on a new job.
We acted so irresponsiblythe past five years
Steven Orr (24:17):
have.
David Williams (24:17):
that we have to take drastic measures.
And I think the only thing that Icould agree with is let's use ai, let's
separate those that have been herefor 10, 15 years that are productive.
And I'm sorry if you don't fit inthat class, you've got 60 days,
90 days to exit the country and ifyou can't do it, we'll help you.
Steven Orr (24:37):
Yeah, but Dave, if I told you that right now in the
United States, there are 10 millionjobs available right now and only
6 million can actually fill 'em in.
And guess who's filling them in?
Nobody.
Nobody wants to do those jobs.
The migrants are coming herebecause they just said earlier
that we are the envy of the world.
So when they come here, they'relooking for a better life.
And I agree with that.
(24:58):
I have
David Williams (24:58):
if I do your math and I think your math's way off that
only 26,000 kids were brought intothis country that are undocumented.
That are being trafficked, that are beingsold and raped eight to nine times a day.
that doesn't make you sick.
And you don't say, oh, I'm sorry.
That's just a small percentageof the people that came across.
Let's not focus on that.
Steven Orr (25:17):
No, I,
David Williams (25:18):
bs.
I call bs.
I say, you know what, send 'em all out andbring 'em back in the proper way because
I'm not gonna sit by and watch somekid get raped eight to 10 times a day.
I don't care if it's one.
And if it were for your kids, you'dhave a whole different perspective.
Steven Orr (25:33):
I think the first thing I said about that is that if you're criminally
caught, you should be hang the gallows.
I think that was exactlythe words that I said.
David Williams (25:40):
I agree with you.
But you also said right beforethat, It was only about, 0.002%
Steven Orr (25:47):
So you're
David Williams (25:47):
only.
Only about.
Steven Orr (25:49):
I don't, when you throw the baby outta the bath water, that's
like saying that we should, whenI look at the country in general,
and I say, okay, I understand it.
There's some really bad thingshappening in the world, but believe
it or not, there are some reallygood people here too, Dave, and we're
doing some really good things in this
David Williams (26:06):
I I told you I work with them
Steven Orr (26:08):
stop creating technology because maybe there's
some bad people that are hackers.
That it's not, it doesn't add,it's not apples and oranges.
Here.
I've said this a million times andI'm probably harder on those, the
criminality side of things than anybody.
I'm the one that doesn't give 'emthe gallows, send 'em off the,
David Williams (26:23):
and I'm working with those guys.
I'm working with those guys now,some of which are undocumented.
I'm sure I'm paying 'em a subcontractor,so I don't have to see that verification.
That's up to the sub to do.
But I know what I'm hearing from them.
We've had this conversation over thepast 60 days not six months ago, not
six years ago, over the past 60 days.
'cause we started thisproject about the 8th of July.
(26:45):
And those that are documented,Hispanics documented are saying,
telling everybody go get documented.
If you're not screw you, you shouldget kicked outta the country.
I've got a Israeli general contractorwho's married to an American who had
two kids in Israel, and they had to gothrough that whole vetting process, and
(27:07):
the kids had to be verified to be theirsand all, they went through that process
and they're saying the same thing.
Alex (27:12):
"Tech solutions and personal stories expose system flaws, but implementation
means facing who benefits from broken.
Next (27:18):
frustrations boil as California reality clashes with national
philosophy, testing limits head-on."
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