December 11, 2025 • 62 mins
College used to be the golden ticket. Now it’s a $1.7 trillion debt trap for millions while only 3% of careers actually reward the degree with higher pay.
Jerremy Alexander Newsome and Dave Conley rip apart the myth: exploding admin costs, profit-driven schools, bias against non-degree paths, and why trades and on-the-job training are quietly eating college’s lunch. No sacred cows survive.
Timestamps:
- (00:00) College Wrap Up – cold open on the real ROI
- (00:47) Introduction and Overview
- (01:00) Questioning the Value of College – the numbers don’t lie
- (01:52) Exploring Alternatives to College – trades, apprenticeships, self-taught
- (12:46) The Bias Against Non-Degree Holders – how HR filters kill opportunity
- (15:13) Trade Schools and Other Career Paths – where the money actually is
- (26:38) The Student Debt Crisis – scale and who profits
- (29:31) Industry Collaboration in Education – what works when companies train
- (30:32) The Changing Classroom Experience – Zoom U vs 1995
- (33:28) Rising Costs and Administrative Inflation – where your tuition really goes
- (34:56) The Profit Motive in Education – universities as hedge funds
- (40:00) Student Loan Forgiveness Debate – moral hazard vs bailout
- (51:29) The Future of Jobs and AI Impact – degrees about to matter even less
- (55:10) Advice for the Next Generation – what parents and kids need to hear
- (59:42) Final Thoughts on Education Reform
📢 Solving America’s Problems Podcast – Real Solutions For Real Issues
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jerremy Newsome (00:00):
Ladies and gentlemen.
Welcome back over the last few episodes,Dave and myself and to our guests.
We've been digging into one ofthe biggest questions out there.
Is college still worth it.
And after everything we'veuncovered, I can say this.
We are not in the same placewe were when we started.
(00:23):
We have all been told that collegeis the best path to success.
Is it?
Dave Conley (00:31):
So that was really cool about doing these episodes is that we
start in one place and we have this likethesis, we have this assumption and it's
okay, we come in with our own biasesand our own like life experiences and
we were questioning, even if a degree.
With the student debt and whether,whether any of it made any sense anymore.
It's Oh, you got YouTube, yougot AI, you got all these other
(00:53):
things that are available to you.
And I think I know through my lens,it was like, man, there was no way
I've been trying to get students.
out of the system.
It's I want to go to college.
And I'm like, no, don't do it.
So as we talked with the educators,the entrepreneurs and the
experts, I think we realized it'snot just about college itself.
That's a huge component, right?
(01:14):
But it's affordability.
It's outdated education models.
It's the lack of emphasis on differentways that people can be successful
and how they might be able to do that.
And I think you brought it up,several times and we'll get into it.
It's look, this there's lots ofthere's lots of ways to get there.
And the amount of education thatgoes in at the beginning of telling
(01:35):
a student or a prospective student,let's do this is like nil, but here's
a hundred thousand dollars of debt.
Jerremy Newsome (01:43):
yeah.
The one that just frustrates me the most,I think Is some shift between how hard it
is to get an SBA loan, business loan, newstartup loan, new venture loan, something
versus getting a loan for college.
That is an easy shift.
(02:03):
Very easy to change rightout the gate is okay.
If we're going to make it very simpleto get a college loan and for whatever
reason, go for it, you're gonna geta liberal arts degree where you will
literally never ever pay that off.
Okay.
Hey, Microsoft help.
You can sign on the dotted line andyou can go get all of your money, all
the money that you want, and then goto Belmont and, quarter million dollars
(02:24):
a year, get your liberal arts degree.
Okay.
But then the government or theinstitutions or that same lending
institution should be available foranyone who wants to start a business
as well, have a business plan, haveit drawn out, have it written out.
This is what you should be able to do.
Okay.
And the same speed at which theywill get approved for a student loan,
(02:48):
get approved for a business loan.
Dave Conley (02:50):
Yes, and I think that's absolutely one solution that, that's
right in the money spot because, here'sthe running theme that we keep on running
into, whether it's our first serieson school safety and school shootings,
whether it was college, we talked alittle bit of national debt, and we've
definitely hit it on some upcomingthemes that we're hitting, is that
(03:11):
there's no cheerleaders for any of this.
There's nobody yet that we have found thatis saying, Hey, this is working great.
Don't touch it.
Don't mess with it.
And it seems almost ludicrous that thepeople who are actually empowered to
actually make the changes to do this,are, they seem to be living in, I
don't know what it is, they seem to beliving in some sort of fantasy land.
(03:33):
You Where all of the policy, whetherit's government or these institutions,
the colleges, or the, even the companiesthat are getting college graduates
that are saying, Hey, this isn't,everybody is saying this isn't working.
What is it?
What is it?
So let's back up a little bit.
Let's walk through the episodes.
We started this.
Is college worse than cost?
And we started with Rob and Jeremy.
Jerremy Newsome (03:55):
huh.
Dave Conley (03:55):
Couple of cool guys.
Jerremy Newsome (03:57):
Yep.
Super cool dudes.
Dave Conley (03:59):
What was their story?
I recall that I think it seemedlike we had 20 degrees between
the four of us in that room.
Jerremy Newsome (04:06):
It was so fun.
Jeremy with his 412 different degrees.
And it's like constant, like I needto get degrees, like it has to happen.
and then Rob really, what was fascinatingis Rob also had a more pro take on
college for a lot of different reasons,but one of them he famously said listen,
(04:29):
if you're a black man in America, geta college degree, end of story, right?
End of the story, because you'regoing to be looked at differently.
If you don't, and that is a way tocontinually distinguish yourself right
from black man to black man, like that'swhat he mentioned as a really beautiful
(04:52):
direction for a lot of men in thiscountry who want to create distinguishing
differentiation between themselves andsomeone else of the same skin color.
All right, go get a degree.
Got it.
So for him it was also awesome becausewe had that really great conversation.
It was mandatory in his household Therewas no other choice You had to get a
(05:13):
college degree And that is because hisparents did find really good success and
for those of you who remember in thatconversation Their parents did choose
the degrees that do pay relatively wellessentially both engineering degrees and
so for his parents, they got a good degreebecause those jobs were very relevant.
(05:36):
They were high paying.
They were very strategic and veryspecific falling really into the
stem right aspect of degrees.
And so for his parents making it mandatoryand the entire time of you growing up for
Rob, his parents were saying, you have togo to college, you have to go to college.
But.
No, you have to go to college.
(05:57):
This is the type of degreethat you have to get.
You can't just go to collegeand get a basket weaving degree.
You got to go and become an engineeror you got to go and work in finance
or systems arbitrage or whatever.
And that those are the requirements.
I think that was just really a beautifulpaint portrait and picture because
(06:19):
the more that family unit encourageschildren to go after, not any degree,
because they, even 30 years ago, hisparents, We're very aware that there are
some degrees that are better and thereare some degrees that are worth it.
And there are some degreesthat you definitely shouldn't
(06:40):
even waste your time with.
I think is an obviousdirection to implore.
Dave Conley (06:46):
I went to graduate school with a lot of Indian nationals and
their running joke was in their family.
They were either.
Engineers, doctors, lawyers,accountants, or failures.
Because it was so in, just in theculture, in their family, like
there was no question that thefamily units and the culture that
(07:07):
they were in valued education.
I think you see that in across,Asian communities for sure.
And.
I, so I got a question for you because Iwant to hit this on a future episode when
we're talking maybe race, we'll just talkabout race and, as such a big thing here.
And I'm curious if I absolutelybelieve Rob as far as saying, Hey, as
(07:32):
a black man you have to go to collegein order to to, to how did he put it?
He said, To just to gain accessand higher level of opportunities.
There was no other way tosucceed without a degree.
And I'm curious if that is true.
My, my understandingagain it's really basic.
My understanding is that.
(07:54):
If you look at anybody from a given zipcode, meaning that they're in, like if
they're in a upper income zip code, likeright on Washington DC or in New York
or in LA or San Francisco, no mattertheir race, no matter who they are male
or female, no matter what their raceis, they will have similar outcomes
in life because of the zip code thatthey're in, the schools that they go
(08:16):
to, the high schools, the people thatthey surround themselves, that if you're
in an upper, if you're in a middle.
Solid middle class or an upper middleclass, or an upper class zip code, those
people tend, it seems to just go out inthe wash saying that race isn't the most
critical factor when it comes to that.
I do believe that if you are not inthose zip codes, then race is more
(08:39):
tightly correlated with income, and ifit's correlated with income, then all of
those opportunities go out the window.
So I'm, I wanna figure that one out.
Jerremy Newsome (08:48):
yeah, that's a really.
Dave Conley (08:51):
Now, I might be wrong, right?
But that is, but it's I don't know.
It's not saying that race isn'timportant, but I'm saying, is it
that important for, upper middleclass and middle class families?
Is it the same?
I don't know.
I don't know the answer.
Jerremy Newsome (09:03):
Yeah.
I think what you said is the zip codeis that's probably worth definitely
finding and doing some good research on.
Because if you're in the zip code andyou have a race that stands out, that's
potentially different than others.
If you are not doing what the otherpeople in that zip code do, you probably
still will be relatively ostracized.
(09:24):
Example, if 85 percent of thiszip code is race car drivers
and you're the only dentist,
Dave Conley (09:33):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I get it.
Jerremy Newsome (09:34):
you're right.
Exactly.
You're probably, people are gonnaprobably think you're a stranger.
If everyone in the zip code or thevast majority of software engineers,
and you're the only influencer.
That it doesn't matter your age.
It doesn't matter your race.
People are gonna think you'reweird anyway, and you're probably
gonna have tons of friends.
So it for me the perspective reallyis the ability for you to distinguish
(09:56):
yourself, not only from societal norms,but also to just be aware of how you're
going down your trajectory of education.
As long as people are comfortable thatyou put in the work, the time and the
elegance of the grind, the evidence ofthe grind where it's like, Whoa, okay.
You didn't go to college, but youflipped 150 houses and you have a story
(10:22):
or you didn't go to college, but youwent to jail and you got out of jail
and then you've learned what not to do.
And you studied on the backs ofIndividuals that taught you and
you read a bunch of books and nowyou are an incredibly high echelon
tax paying individual of theunited states of america, right?
That's a story of Resilience that'sreally the human emotion is the reason
(10:44):
that college is there is because itis hard To get a good degree as you
go through college right going touniversity of florida, which was a big
college still is obviously at the time,we have a mutual friend, Dave, that his
son got a 1520 on his SATs and couldn'tget into the University of Florida.
And again, I'm not saying that's probablya bad thing for UF, by the way, like
(11:05):
you're missing out on someone that almostgot a perfect SAT score, that's rare.
But to the same degree that ifsomeone's going to any college and
graduates from that college, If it'sa high end, upper echelon college,
that still comes with some markerof this person put in the time, the
energy and the effort to actually win.
(11:29):
And it doesn't obviously ultimatelyprobably even matter if it's college or
if it's a four year work experience whereyou went to work for four years versus
going to college and now you have workexperience and your boss or your bosses
have this glowing report that, Hey.
Dave knows how to put in the work.
Dave knows how to put in the time.
He did X, Y, Z proficiently.
(11:50):
You're probably still going toget a really good job placement
because you showed resilience.
That's what most peopleare putting out there.
And a lot of times collegedoes show that resiliency.
Dave Conley (11:59):
So do you, is another way of saying that, do you think that
there's a bias or a prejudice evenof people who don't have a degree?
Jerremy Newsome (12:07):
Oh, is there a prejudice?
There is, yes.
In fact, I would saythis, there's a prejudice.
Whereas if you don't have adegree, you better have a story.
There, there better be a reason why.
And for example who right now isgoing, Oh, Zuckerberg, what a failure?
No one,
Dave Conley (12:27):
Okay.
Jerremy Newsome (12:28):
Not a single person ever.
Cause the guy was inHarvard, but dropped out.
Could he get finished?
Sure.
Sure.
Could have.
But now he donates 3 billiona year to the endowment fund.
So I was like he's good.
That perspective though, hedoesn't have a college degree.
Now, I don't know if he's actuallygone out and got one since just for
the giggles, but there's tons ofpeople that if you do not have a
(12:49):
degree and this country, yeah, youbetter have a really remarkable story.
Dave Conley (12:56):
This is, so this is what I heard here.
Here's where it was because I, I did comeinto this first episode in particular and
being like no, don't go and get a degree.
Even though we know thatcollege graduates they, over the
longterm, they do make more money.
They do have better health outcomes.
They, there's you live longer.
There's a lot of things that likego into it, but here's some things.
(13:19):
We learned from Anya in the secondepisode that like the biggest debt
that people have are the peoplewho didn't finish their degree.
And I'm like, Oh no.
Like they actually got in, theystarted doing it and they couldn't
afford it or something happened orlife got in the way and it's oh, no.
So that's the worst of all worlds.
It's like you started, but you didn't.
(13:40):
And then we learned like a bunch ofpeople are in jobs that don't even
require a degree or they're not using it.
And then it's like there is thatmismatch of, yeah, there's a
bias against people who don'thave degrees and the value of it.
In the workplace.
(14:00):
I don't know.
I don't know how I'm saying,you know what I'm saying?
I'm trying to, I'm trying to get it.
I was like, look, it, the collegedegree doesn't matter a whole lot,
Jerremy Newsome (14:09):
Yeah.
Dave Conley (14:10):
but there's this heavy prejudice against it and there's
a lot of places that, require acollege degree and like on and on.
And I'm like, when we talked aboutreforming this thing, I think it
happened in the later episodes,which will, you know, which is
this does need to be redone.
I don't know, but let's talk about the,in this first episode, we also talked
(14:30):
about trade schools and the value of that.
Jerremy Newsome (14:33):
Yeah.
I love trade schools, man.
I'm a big, huge proponent of those.
Huge.
Because my, my theory again for howwe can radically shifts the business
model that is college that is failingthis nation is if you don't know
exactly what you want to do, right?
(14:53):
So someone goes, I don'tlike you fill out a form.
Do you know what you want to do?
Yay or nay, nay, go toa trade school, right?
If you know what you want todo, it's still not an exact.
You have to go to college.
So here would be a form.
Do you know what I want to do?
Yes, I want to go finance degree.
Okay, why you want toget a finance degree?
So I can make a bunch of moneytrading the stock market.
(15:15):
Okay, Jeremy Newsom, don't go to college.
Bye.
if you do go to college, you'regoing to pay more because
you're going to make more.
You're going for, you're going forfinance literally to make money.
So your whole job isgoing to be to make money.
Yeah, that's why you pay for it.
That's why you have to pay for it.
You don't have to do anything.
You don't have to pay for it.
There's no scholarships here.
(15:36):
Enjoy.
All right.
So that depends on howbad that I want it now.
And if I go out and get that degree,I have to pay for that degree.
And I have now understood that'ssomething that I want to do.
So I'm going to go to college so theycan figure out what they want to do.
And they're going to spend five, six,seven years, like to your point, growing
their debt and then maybe getting a job.
Probably doesn't pay for their tuition.
(15:58):
College experience or if they dropout two years in and they hated it.
Now they go get a job.
They still have that debt for those twothree years Yeah, if you don't know why
you're going to go to college You'renot really sure you have to slash you
should go to a trade school because tradeschools is hey You're going to get a on
the job training ojt like you're going tolearn something that probably AI is not
(16:23):
going to take away from you anytime soon.
These jobs are mechanicaloil changes, welding, right?
Doing, working on HVAC systems,doing plumbing, electricity.
Like these are jobs that robotswill take a hundred years from
now, like nice and far away.
Maybe maid services great people needtheir apartments or their house or the
(16:47):
things clean is like people will pay forthat all the time Laundry services like
you can learn so many things in tradeschools Because it is on the job train.
Like I say, Hey, this is a job.
We're going to teachyou how to do this job.
And the, in this job, you're goingto make money because jobs pay money.
That's what they do.
Huh.
Huh.
Dave Conley (17:05):
That's a t shirt.
Jobs pay money.
I'm a a hundred percent yeson this and I'm going to say
this again, future episode.
Like I, I'm just like, okay.
For a future episode, I want to talkto more people in trade schools.
Because I think this also dovetails reallywell with what Karen was talking about in
our third episode, which is there's a lotof ways that we can reform the system.
(17:26):
And one of them is lifelonglearning and micro credentials.
Now, when I think about a tradeschool, this is why I want
to talk to people in trades.
is that often it's very, no punintended, but labor intensive.
And those labor intensive jobswill take a toll on your body.
And not only do these jobs need tohave good pensions and maybe unions
(17:50):
involved, but also ensuring that, youdo make a lot of money in this, that,
in particular, something happens onthe job that, you're taken care of,
that there's also, career paths insideyour trades and those micro credentials
can teach you all sorts of things.
Maybe it's managing people.
Maybe it's getting into thebusiness side of things.
Maybe it's starting abusiness on your trade.
(18:11):
Maybe it's some other aspect of yourtrade that isn't so labor intensive.
And so that's where I'm like, okay,let's talk to people in trades because
I want to understand What thosecareer paths are, because you're a
different human being in your earlytwenties than you are in your fifties.
And it's you're not, if you're stillslinging bricks in your fifties.
Wow, God bless you.
(18:32):
But that's tough.
Jerremy Newsome (18:33):
Yeah.
Yep.
Yep.
Exactly.
You don't have to, I think there'sprobably a lot of other things
you can do in that situation.
Dave Conley (18:40):
And there was other things around this, right?
There was also like, okay, wedidn't talk enough about military.
We have a lot of, people in themilitary that listened to us
and they're friends of ours.
That's a career path.
If you don't know where ifyou're like, I'm a, I don't know.
It's not just, Trade school or college.
It's and there's serviceit's there's gap years.
That's go and be an intern.
I know I, I was not emotionallyprepared to go to college and the
(19:03):
type of college that I went to.
And the, just the idea of man, just togo and take a year when I was 18 and
travel and work and intern for a year,just get some education social education
around making money and people and,just try some things and just do some
(19:24):
intern work for real estate or whatever.
And just see what it's allabout before I went to college.
Yeah.
Jerremy Newsome (19:31):
yeah.
I think those are, I think those are bigpieces and I think that's something that
can easily be constructed, probably.
More just from the topdown approach, right?
Imagine if you have the president justopenly talking about this relatively
often, where Hey, this is the educationexperience going forward, right?
This is what's available.
This is what's opportunistic.
This is what's possible.
This is the changes that weneed to make going forward.
(19:53):
This is what we should make going forward.
These are the tiny micro adjustments andtweaks that we can make on this education
system and really the mindset behind theeducation system about what's available.
I mean imagine more and more teenagers18 and 19 taking their leap years or it
being relatively mandatory before youeven go into college unless you have a 3.
(20:15):
8 GPA or higher you now need to goand you have to do a year of work as a
submission before you go into college.
And yes, you're going to rewardthe ones that are academically
like ready to go, they're on fire.
But if they're, a Jeremy Newsomeand they're going to, they're
just squeaking by and they wantto just go make a bunch of money.
(20:36):
It's like, all right let's go work first.
And thankfully nationwide insurancewas one of the companies and there
are companies Out there that will payyou to go to college if you're working
for them And that's a mind blowingopportunity in itself But nationwide was
one of those companies and the hilariouscaveat was I had to work 60 hours a
week And so I was like, wait a minute.
(20:57):
Are you telling me I onlyhave to work 60 hours a week?
And you guys will also helppay for my college and I can
take any degree that I want.
They're like Bro, if you work60 hours a week, we'll pay
for whatever college you want.
I was like Yeah, that'sa no brainer, right?
We're talking with us 12 hoursa day for five days a week.
What do you want me to dowith all my other time?
I'm confused.
60 hours.
Dave Conley (21:19):
Was it enterprise that does that to enterprise rent a car?
Jerremy Newsome (21:21):
Enterprise rental is one of them.
Verizon used to be one of them thatthere's a few man out there, like
pretty big companies that will paytheir employees to go to college.
And here's the crazy part though.
Imagine, Dave, how many peopleat Danish Hawaiian Insurance were
not working 60 10 other people,I was like, what are you doing?
(21:43):
I don't get it.
So again, it's just one of those thingsthat wasn't, I don't think this message
is championed enough by people where ifyou're not going to college, I've been a
big proponent of, Yes, there's a reasonif and if you don't know, then there
absolutely should be a very easy pathfor you to learn to figure it out, right?
(22:04):
You just mentioned the military.
We talked about trade schools.
We talked about internships.
There's going to be on the job trainings.
There's another, I'm a big fanof, which is apprenticeships,
even better than internships.
I think there's tons and tonsof companies that could offer
should offer apprenticeship roles.
Where again, you can still paysomeone very nicely because interns
essentially is just free andthey're just working for no reason.
(22:27):
Like they got bills too.
But apprenticeships, it'sprobably even a better program.
Dave Conley (22:32):
There's a, there's an attitude shift I would love to see,
which is also in most of the rest ofthe world, like retail jobs and food
services, jobs are professions And youcan make good money doing those things.
And here it's often equated withlike people who are in school or
(22:52):
young people or people who are,wanting to go off and do something
else it's seen as temporary work.
And I think there's this attitudeshift of not only is blue collar
work valuable and needed trades andpeople who are in trades valuable and
needed that, most people in the UnitedStates don't have a college degree and
(23:12):
that people who are doing jobs like.
Like food services
those, they, to elevate them asprofessionals and not just treat
it as a job that anybody can do.
I waited tables and I did not last long.
, it's it's hard.
Jerremy Newsome (23:30):
Yeah.
But it is, to your point, like thoseshould be, there should be certain some of
those that some people should experience.
And again, everyone should just havethat yep, this is a role that I can
go into as a someone in a certain ageto potentially try to go to college.
Should I also work myself throughschool, go into the food industry,
(23:50):
the service industry, justso you can learn interaction.
You, I think you said theword earlier, societal, right?
Just learn your societal roles, yoursocietal norms, wherever you are in the
country to just understand how to bewith people and talk to people because
if it was made, if it became this.
Let's call it a life credit you goto college And if you are going to
(24:11):
college, you can submit a W 2 or youcan submit a, I have worked for another
organization for more than a year.
You automatically get a reductionof four credit hours, right?
That would be an awesome solutionbecause now you're going to
incentivize and reward people who dowork before slash while they're in
(24:36):
college, because Dave, guess what?
All the people don't.
A lot of people like, man, this wholecollege thing I, this is enough for me.
I'm like, it's not, no, it's not 12 hoursis a full time plate for college credit.
Which is three, four hourclasses essentially or four or
(24:59):
three hour classes either way.
So 12, 16 credit hours isoh, what are you doing?
That's your, you're getting two.
Oh boy.
Sixteen.
That's only four, fourhour classes a week.
It's what are you doing?
There's so much more time left.
(25:19):
So yeah, being able to reward childrenand rewarding our young teens who are
going to college and working with sometype of credit reduction bonus point
system of some kind to have jobs alsoI think would be remarkable because
then you're giving reasons to also beworking and go to school simultaneously.
Dave Conley (25:41):
Love it.
Love it.
Let's talk about let's touch onthe second episode in this series.
It was With Anya Cummins.
Jerremy Newsome (25:50):
Yeah.
Dave Conley (25:51):
20 years ago, she wrote these books saying, Hey, this whole
college debt thing, this isn't going togo into the right place 20 years ago.
Jerremy Newsome (25:57):
Yeah.
Dave Conley (25:58):
And everything that she talked about coming true.
Jerremy Newsome (26:03):
Yeah.
And she predicted a studentdebt crisis, and it's huge.
It's huge.
Debt keeps growing because collegecosts is outpacing inflation and
graduation remains, graduation ratesare remaining about the exact same.
I think one of the things that she'smade pretty clear is the need for
policy and systemic change, right?
The policymakers haven't adapted to anykind of these economical, economic shifts.
(26:28):
And I think ultimately just beingaware that, that while the price
of college is going up, thatadditional price, you're not really
receiving anything extra for it.
Essentially saying hey, if you wereto pay more, why can't you get on a.
Higher likelihood graduation path, right?
(26:50):
If you do pay more, can I get,does that come with tutoring?
Does that come with, and somecolleges might have this.
I don't know of any right now, butif, Hey, I pay for a little bit more.
So instead of 55, It's not an extra5, 000 a year that I'm paying.
I get a tutor.
I get office hours.
I get.
(27:11):
Classes that someone holds my hand andreally just helps me out and answers
and stayed over and, the teacher'sassistant helps me and spends time
with me and so on and so forth.
So if you are going to pay extra,cause that's what happened,
that's what's happening right now.
People are paying extra.
They're not getting anything extra for it.
And there are professionsthat stay in debt, including
(27:33):
the medical licenses, right?
Medical degrees andmedical debt is bananas.
And they stay in thatdebt for 30, 40 years.
Dave Conley (27:43):
Yeah.
Into your fifties, right?
Because you don't get out ofschool until you're mid thirties.
What
Jerremy Newsome (27:47):
And you're not making actually any real
money until you're mid forties.
Like real legit good money.
So yeah, it is.
It's really mind blowing.
The amount of debt that thepeople are just going under
to just, to get into this.
And I think that's awesome.
And she tracked that down and statedthat the traditional four year
college model is outdated, right.
Which is really that simple.
That standard go for four years.
(28:10):
Outdated.
Dave Conley (28:11):
how did.
How did Karen put it that, Hey, the systemdoes have, some value we've been doing
it, but we've been doing it basicallythe same way for a thousand years,
Jerremy Newsome (28:21):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Dave Conley (28:23):
Like it hasn't changed much since the dark ages, literally.
And, but Anya and Karen, theyintersected in a really interesting
place, but we can focus on Anya first.
She said, there's some thingsthat are really working and
we want to do more of that.
(28:44):
Anya mentioned, oh, it was the WesternGovernors Association and they're the ones
that are working with industry and theydevelop these skill based education along
with students having a success coach.
And Karen mentioned the same thing ofworking directly with industry to be
(29:06):
like, okay, we know that the collegegraduates you're getting you're saying
loud and clear that they are not readyfor work and that you're having to retrain
them as soon as they get out of college.
So let's work together and hey, maybeyou guys can sponsor this rather
than the students footing the bill.
There was Australia, which was like,okay, you only pay back a percentage
(29:31):
of your income based on your degree.
And what am I missing?
Oh, you, you said you, we should payfor experiences, not for education.
Jerremy Newsome (29:41):
Yeah.
I think those
Dave Conley (29:42):
There were some good ones in here.
Yeah.
Jerremy Newsome (29:44):
there was, man.
I think, again, I think one of mysolutions that I can, that we can
end up bringing to the table atsome point in the future really
is that awareness piece, right?
Where again, the education's if you haveall this stuff for free online, they're
not coming there for the education, right?
They're coming there for the experienceof learning how to meet people, talk
(30:05):
to people, interact with people.
The education is there.
I went through tons of classes where thelecturer was just speaking about really
cool ideas and all the stuff was online.
And the professor was like, Allright, cool, hey, just go check
everything online and, take your test.
But the idea of the classroom was thisI could just easily see this model where
(30:26):
the idea starts to change, where it'sno longer everyone sitting in these
giant, Rose and these stadiums, theseauditoriums, just listening to an orator
speak all the time, where it's much more,all right, let's get everyone up on stage.
Let's have these conversations.
Let's all sit around these circles.
Let's sit around these internet campfirestyle discussion tables where we really
(30:49):
start addressing some of the topics ofnot only what are we doing, but how are
we doing, how are we doing it better?
And what is everyone tryingto learn from this class?
What are we trying to do with it?
And.
Okay, great.
What is the ultimateobjective of this class?
Are you trying to get a credit?
Are you trying to get a grade?
Are you trying to learn?
Are you trying to make more money?
Are you trying to better your life?
(31:10):
Are you going to use portions ofthis to become a better person?
Having these implementationsof really knowing what the
students are trying to achieve.
And bring that to the forefrontand just really laboring that point
home where this you pump out thebest of the best in every class.
And every teacher has this kind of vision.
(31:31):
You now have people that canpay more for these experiences.
Where again, you're going on a threeday hike and camp with your whole class
and you're now paying for that hikeand you're going on this hike and now
you're outdoors and you're learning.
And if this is a science or biology.
(31:53):
You're there hands on.
And those are what create memories.
Anyway, people are going to remember thatthree day hike for their whole entire life
versus being in a room for four hours.
Those are the thingsthat people can pay for.
Those are some experiences that asyou just start understanding on the
bigger scope, all these teachers thathave always told me, just like Karen,
(32:17):
that there needs to be some level ofchange because we've done the exact
same thing you did since the dark ages.
Like we have to start making these shifts.
We really need to
Dave Conley (32:29):
Here's what I didn't, here's what I didn't get from episode
two with With Anya was why I like I'm Imaybe I'm just the one I don't think I'm
the only one just struggling with this.
I struggled with it in our first roundof school safety and school shootings
and I'm struggling with it again on this.
Is, why did it get so expensive?
(32:51):
Why do we have so many administrators?
Why, what is this, isthis massive inflation?
I think it's easy to say theavailability of easy money means
the price of it's going to go up.
And maybe that is the answer, but theUK has the same problem, and I don't
know, is it because of loans, and I don'tknow I'm still at the what happened?
We've heard about our parents generationwhere they could work full time, or
(33:16):
they could work a part time minimum wagejob, and, More than pay for college,
Jerremy Newsome (33:21):
yeah,
Dave Conley (33:21):
like what happened?
Did you hear that in anybody we talked to?
Nobody had that one, right?
Jerremy Newsome (33:27):
no, I don't think, I don't think overarchingly
because obviously the answer issome level of inflation, right?
Price is just extremely higher.
And that is the answer of what happenedis profits went up for companies
and corporations and companies aremaking more money now than the Bible.
Like the, you take the richestman in the Bible and companies are
(33:50):
making more money than those guys.
Now.
And you just have inflation throughthe absolute roof because companies
are becoming more profitable andthey can make more money faster.
And they therefore aren't goingto really expedite the prices
of charging less because of,capitalism and we're allowing that.
And again, it's an interesting awarenessbecause that's, that is what's occurring.
(34:14):
Like the amount of people that aremaking goo buckles of money based
off of just the interest rates.
Yes, they gargantuanly peered into.
Dave Conley (34:22):
Yeah.
It's every time we know that everytime there's somebody in between,
like the student and the university,everybody has to get paid money.
And This isn't all demand driven.
It's not like every student stood upand say, I want a rock wall and full
time housekeeping, Like it wasn't that.
So there are people getting filthyrich on this being broken like this.
(34:45):
And they clearly have influence.
Jerremy Newsome (34:48):
Yes.
They do.
And I think that's the thingthat at some stage needs to be
really gargantuanly peered into.
Through whatever organization or companyor product or person that wants to start
understanding this more because the systemis being too profitable and it's not
(35:10):
cared about enough where they're makingtoo much money and I'm down for money.
I love it.
I am.
I am that guy.
I am just aware that I think there areprobably certain industries slash sectors.
Where there should be some levelof cappage because if you're going
to go into certain levels andcertain sectors We're like, okay.
(35:31):
I just want to be in this for the goodof the humanities I want to be in this
a good for the world All right, cool.
And if you're at the top of thatheap, you're the top of that pile aka
Let's say you're the CEO of Goodwill.
All right.
Awesome if you want to be in that roleYou probably know that you're gonna
start topping out at a certain level Andthat certain level is a baseline level
because we got to feed the profits backto the people that are going through it.
(35:51):
We can't live off the backsof all the people that we're
putting through this machine.
And that's what we're, that's what'shappening right now with college.
The college players, for example, thatjust, this is just starting to happen.
This has been my idea for five,six, seven years where we absolutely
should be paying our college athletes.
For sure.
(36:12):
Like you pay them because a lotof college sports bring in obscene
sounds, sums of money, millionsand millions of dollars a year.
And you're paying these coaches tocoach the kids that they get the
education for free and that's it.
They're not going to get any money.
Dave Conley (36:30):
Everybody, every other student who works for
the university gets paid.
Like it's a no brainer.
Jerremy Newsome (36:35):
Unbelievable, dude.
So there is a money machine.
There's a money monstersomewhere out there that's never
really, truly been hunted down.
And I would love to hunt downthat money monster and find out
where it is, where it's all going.
Because I think if the collegerequirements where you got to take your
endowment or your certain level of doubt,you have to put it into this instrument.
(36:58):
And this instrument is now,once it hits a certain level.
We now know that it can pay forthis amount of students perpetually
for free and the staff and allthe things just off of interest.
Now education does become free.
And you start, you can applythat model to enough people.
(37:18):
It'll work.
Dave Conley (37:20):
It strikes me that there's no transparency in the model really.
Like we, we don't really knowwhat the overhead costs are.
We don't know what tuition even is, right?
There's a there's probably a, there is apublished tuition, but it's okay, how many
of this is, how much of this is loans?
How much of this is reduction in, likewho actually pays the full rate and.
(37:42):
When you put in almost unlimitedamounts of money that loans can
be taken out on, then the system'sgonna grow to fill that up.
And I, this was yet another one whereit's like, where does the money go?
Because it's it is so muchmoney, and it's like, what?
(38:02):
Where does it go?
I,
Jerremy Newsome (38:04):
Yeah.
Dave Conley (38:05):
I don't know.
I it strikes me, it I, like mymagic wand on this is like, why?
Maybe the student loan thing is thepiece that's not really working.
So maybe it's, I don't know ifmoney is the access problem.
If we took more money out of thesystem, more people might have access.
Does that make sense?
Jerremy Newsome (38:23):
Yep.
It does.
It does indeed.
And I agree.
I don't think that I don't thinkit's an access thing right now.
Realistically.
I just think that at some level of systemarbitrage and information arbitrage,
it's not being properly released andit's being a little bit too confined.
And it's not being sharedopenly enough, right?
To your point, there's just not a lot ofinformation out there openly for most of
(38:49):
these organizations that are making somuch obscene profits off of these students
that again, to that point could, if theorganizations were as good as they want
to be or claim to be, Could you say onthe back end, Hey, we're going to get you
great jobs, great education, pay us lateroff of what amount of money that you make.
Dave Conley (39:13):
So here in episode two we.
I think this was the only this mightbe the only episode that we really
touched on the college loan forgiveness.
And I recall that's that Ithink most of you and maybe our
guests were like not for that.
I don't know how we all landed on it.
I'm still, I'm stuck on this inthis place of, These are effectively
(39:37):
children and we've given themhundreds of thousands of dollars.
I, there's no chance that theywould understand the consequences
of carrying a loan for 30 yearsand what that actually means and
getting up to your eyeballs in debt.
Look, it's just you don't knowthe consequences of anything.
I, it's,
Jerremy Newsome (39:58):
I think that's a going forward thing though, versus going
backwards, meaning imagine right now,every single person you go, Oh, you,
every person that got a tattoo in thelast four years, they didn't really mean
to, we'll pay to get it removed versus,Hey, don't get tattoos on your face.
Until you're much, much older life.
And you're realizing that'sreally where you want to put it.
(40:19):
Okay.
Go for
Dave Conley (40:20):
How did you know what I was doing for my birthday?
A face tattoo.
Jerremy Newsome (40:23):
Don't get a horse tattoo on your forehead.
But when you're 18,you're like, Oh my gosh,
Place to put a horse tattoo than my face.
No, I think it's a thing of this goingforward, meaning that if someone is
already in student debt, I do notbelieve at any point in time the
taxpayer should say, Hey, sorry, bye.
(40:44):
All that money is gone.
We got your back.
I don't believe thatis the solution at all.
Do I think that student loanscould be included in bankruptcy?
Yeah, I do.
I think that's a possibility becausebelieve it or not, I don't currently not
reading any statistic, believe that mostBankruptcy comes from student loans.
(41:09):
I'm sure that there is a factor of that,but most bankruptcies happen because
of too much consumer debt and too muchmedical debt and not enough income.
And so it's a blendgenerally of those three.
Now, do those people that filebankruptcy also have student loans?
Maybe not.
I'm sure we can do thatresearch in a different point.
But what I'm getting at is, If in thatsmall subsection of people, we also
(41:33):
include student loans, whatever, right?
We already have bankruptcy nowand bankruptcy can remove all
kinds of debt that you don't like.
And so if student loans is added to that,is that going to dramatically increase
the amount of bankruptcies in the country?
I don't think so, believe it or not.
I really don't think that'sgoing to even cause a noticeable
or marginal impact whatsoever.
(41:54):
But to the point that, Going forward,you make student loans extremely
hard to get and not profitablenot obscenely profitable for these
companies that are issuing them.
These 30 year like you don't make, youdon't need to make that type of money.
(42:16):
And not only do you not need tomake that type of money off of kids.
Or very young adults But you shouldalso make it much harder to access
Meaning there needs to be full onfull fledged If you're going to get
a business loan Like I said earlierallow business loans to be as easy as
student loans are now or make them bothequally as hard One of the two, right?
(42:42):
Either make it allow where Ican go get a business loan.
And if I absolutely fail and good on me.
I tried my best or make themas so one of the two, right?
Make them super easy or super hard,but either one don't take one away
from the other and not the other.
I think that kids should havethe ability to get student loans.
Or business loans, and if they can geteither one, they need to do the exact
(43:04):
same diligence to get either one, andthat would dramatically reduce the amount
of student loans have to be filled outand get approved for if someone has
to go through even remotely rigorousprocess just to get approved for one.
Dave Conley (43:20):
I like that.
Hey, help me re, let'ssee if you remember this.
I know.
It came up and I'm sure our listenerswill probably remind me what it
is, but my understanding, maybeit was talking to Anya, was that.
Most of the student loan debtis owned by the United States
government and that the U.
(43:41):
S. government pays service providersto manage those debts with the
students, or with the formerstudents, with the, with the students.
They are the ones that actuallygo in and collect and manage it.
And I'm like, why?
Like this is like an accounting thing.
This is a spreadsheet and an onlinepayment portal, which the government
(44:01):
has plenty of if you've paid your taxes.
So why are there third parties involved?
Because they have to get paid.
They're not doing it for free.
So there was a piece in there,but my question for you, because
money better than anybody I know,why is their interest charged?
If it's government money that'salready been spent, it's already
gone to the universities the servicehas already been provided, why
(44:26):
would we charge any money for it?
Why isn't it a zero interest?
Besides being dischargeable,which I'm, I agree.
It should be at least dischargeablewhen everything goes wrong.
Why are we charging any interest on this?
Jerremy Newsome (44:38):
Yeah, exactly.
I think,
Dave Conley (44:40):
it's an accounting, like it's already been spent.
It's who cares?
Jerremy Newsome (44:44):
Yeah, or we make it to the point where it also is.
That's right.
Where's like, all right, we make it thatway where it's it's already accounted for.
It's already some type of financialbudget that the government
plans to spend regardless.
I think.
In that situation, man, thecharging of the interest.
I know why we're doing it.
Why are we doing it?
(45:06):
It's a better what are you doing?
I think having it where thestructured systematized.
approach that we do not make as a countryprofits off of kids going to school
would change dramatically how thisschool is structured in this country.
(45:31):
And right now, I think one of, whenwe were talking about the federal
budget and deficit and loans andall that stuff, one of the words
that came up a bunch was value.
What does this country Valueand right now this country.
It's number one value isProfits, that's our value.
(45:55):
Like how much can we?
Profit in any given situation and thatwhole interest portion is obvious of
that because these institutions andthese governments and these loans
They're all packaged together so thateveryone's winning except for the kids.
(46:16):
Everyone's winning exceptfor the end customer.
And it's not if you went out andasked, I'm sure out of a hundred,
90 percent of these kids would belike, no, I'm not happy with this.
No I feel like I'moverpaying for what I got.
I feel like I'm undervalued for what I amattempting to pay for every single month.
(46:39):
I don't think that they'regoing to feel like this is an
equitable decision whatsoever.
I didn't write book andmy company paid for it.
Like when I got my degree, I had 0in debt and I was like, I just spent
three years working 60 hours a week.
Plus my college time, I was put in100 hour weeks easy just between
(47:04):
work and school, but to that point,it's like at the end of that degree,
remember Nationwide paid for mydegree and shout outs to Nationwide.
I've always said goodthings about this company.
They not only paid for the degree, when Igot finished, I expected a raise because
they're the ones that paid for it.
(47:25):
And so you think that they would go,okay, now go work even harder, right?
So give me more things to do andpay me more for doing those things.
Neither one of those things happened.
I didn't get more rolesand responsibilities.
Okay, cool.
Now you're the customer service managerversus the whatever you were before.
I didn't get any more roles orresponsibilities proving to them
(47:48):
that I'm a good customer of their,loan tuition program, whatever.
Mind blowing to me.
Mind blowing.
Dave Conley (47:56):
that, that does feel a little bit like a disconnect, but cool.
You think at the end of thiswould be like happy graduation.
You've learned quite a bit.
That's fantastic.
Now you're on a, now you're ona, some sort of track, right?
Jerremy Newsome (48:09):
Something,
Dave Conley (48:10):
Yeah.
Some something or bonus or I don't know.
It seems
Jerremy Newsome (48:13):
even if the exactly, even if they don't pay
me more, but they work me harder,I would have expected something.
I don't know what I would expect.
And so some shift in theuniverse for getting a degree.
And so that's what I mean when I tellpeople, listen, the ability for you
to go out and actually get a degreethat single handedly changes how much
(48:34):
money you make that the percentage.
Is less than 3%.
It's less than 3%.
It's for, it's a single handedly makethat shift of, Oh, I have a degree.
Now I immediately make more.
Got it.
Because a lot of things you can do,the things you can do apprenticeship in
and make as much, if not more is 97%.
(48:56):
It's a huge statisticallyinsanely high number.
Yeah, man.
Is college worth it?
I think is the question ofquestions for so many kids.
And I continually find overwhelmingly thevast majority of time the answer is no.
The answer is no, it's not worth it.
And you can get the same degree, youcan get the same return, you can get
(49:18):
the same experience, you can get thesame knowledge for far less money.
For far less time.
Dave Conley (49:26):
That, that's exactly like our third episode, right?
We came in with this with Kyle and Karen.
Kyle's very much AI and YouTubeUniversity and boot camps and
it's I don't, wave you off.
And then Karen waslike, yeah, I like that.
And where, the rubber actually meetsthe route is working with industry
(49:47):
and shifting what we're doing.
And then she said something that reallyclicked with me that finally brought
everything home for me is that schoolstill is absolutely critical for critical
thinking, learning, adaptability.
Innovation, like those are goingto happen inside your schools if
(50:11):
the school is doing that work.
Otherwise, you're going to get the samethat you've gotten for a thousand years.
But if the school has got theirstuff together, they're doing the
micro credentials, they're doingthe certifications, they're doing
the public private partnerships,they're working, they have the
success coaches and they are bringingcritical thinking, innovative skills.
(50:33):
Rock stars that graduate and not justpumping out another college degree.
Jerremy Newsome (50:40):
Yep.
Yep.
And it's the fear that we havetoo many kids and not enough jobs,
but man, just wait until AI hits.
That's the whole buddy, becauseif you think there's an education
problem now, Dave, Oh my gosh.
So that's the thing is we need tostart fixing this ASAP because if there
(51:00):
is one problem that we need to fix.
To Karen's point, it is critical thinking.
We got to teach these kids immediatelyhow to begin to truly think critically,
how to think differently and todistinguish how many ways you can use pin
You got one pin, you give akid a pin hey, tell me the five
(51:23):
things you can do with this.
They're going to have a hardtime coming up more than two.
And just these really basic mentalexercises of knowing how to critically
think and knowing what critical thinkingis and why it needs to be used because
dude, AI is coming for all these jobs.
All of them
Dave Conley (51:40):
About
Jerremy Newsome (51:41):
centers, fully AI, accounting, AI, like graphic
design, AI video editing, AI,podcasts, AI, auto engineering,
AI, it's coming for everything.
And robotics is just as bad.
(52:02):
So really think that the criticalthinking component of a hundred
percent of the workforce right now.
80 percent's gonna bedisplaced within five years.
The 20% that are not displaced,they're gonna make 80, 80 times
more revenue, 80 times more revenue.
The 20% that do not get replacedwill make 80, 80 times more revenue.
(52:24):
And the 80%, 80% of the currentUnited States workforce are gonna
be fully gone in five years, andthey're gonna have to find entirely
new service roles, job roles, and.
If that doesn't scare at least a wholeginormous swath of our listeners, just
please know that it is coming our wayand we got to start helping these,
(52:48):
not only our kids, but the future ofour futures, how to navigate this tide
shift, because it doesn't mean thathumans will become inane and vapid.
What it does mean is that we nowhave the ability to create brand new
school systems, to create brand newemotional intelligence because now
(53:09):
you're going to have intelligencewill be the cheapest commodity, right?
That's what AI is artificial intelligence.
So intelligence is going to bemeaningless, but having intuition,
having the ability to meditate, havingthe ability to emotionally Regulate
and have incredible depth and emotionalconversations that are beautiful and
(53:30):
verbose and just full of juxtapositionsand deliberately, delightfully delectable
conversations that are really exposinghow people are feeling about things and
shifting and tweaking and adjusting.
That's what AI is notgoing to be able to do.
So we need to start.
Realizing that we're going to bebringing back the arts in a huge way.
(53:52):
We're going to start bringing backphysical exercise and PE in a huge
way because we're going to becomeeven more sedentary as a society.
Now you're going to have robots andmachines doing everything for you.
So this is going to haveto start happening soon.
I think people aren't preparedfor how fast it's going to occur.
Dave Conley (54:12):
Oh, yeah.
Future episode right there.
Another future episode.
Jerremy Newsome (54:17):
Yeah our listeners want a bunch, man.
So we're going to give them a bunch.
Dave Conley (54:22):
Let's let's wrap this up.
Let's if you're advising your 18year old self today, what would you.
What would you be telling a youngJeremy Alexander Newsome in 2025?
Jerremy Newsome (54:38):
I was really presently I was pleasantly surprised with my overall
educational output, because for everyonewho's listening, if you are 18, 19, find
a job that you work in now that could.
Either a directly pay for your college orbe indirectly pays for it directly meaning
(55:02):
Partion a portion of your paycheck.
They literally just you have to uploadtheir grades and there's a portal and they
pay for it Like amazing if you work fora company that pays for your schooling.
Yes, please And twice do that workas hard as you possibly can for that
company If it's indirectly, which isjust a good old fashion You take a
paycheck and portion of that paycheckgoes towards your college expenses.
(55:24):
Yes, and yes get a job first A job ismore important than education because
in the job, you will learn whatyou need to be educated for, right?
What portions of your education islacking, what you need to fill in
the holes for, get that job first.
Once you have that job, thengo and get that education.
And before you get the education,before you even go down the route of
(55:47):
education, spend an hour or two withyourself daily for a couple of weeks.
Asking yourself, whyam I going to college?
What is the outcome?
If the only main outcome is,I want to make more money.
Or I want to help more people do not goto college It is a waste of your time.
(56:09):
It is a waste of your energy It is awaste of your resources because the
truth is if you get into a positionand we're talking about the Extremely
rare position that you need to get ajob that actually Is based on merit of
a degree can go get one at that time
(56:30):
So if in seven eight years Your boss issaying oh you want to get promoted to
Shift supervisor and you're going to gofrom 25 an hour to 33 an hour And the
only way you can get that promotion isyou now have to get a degree guess what
now, you know exactly what type of degreeto get The company will probably pay for
(56:52):
it and now you have an exact reason togo because you now have a job and you're
going to be able to get that degree evenfaster because it's extremely clear and
you have intention with what you're doing.
That's going to give youa massive distinction.
And for the jobs that need a degreeright out of college that you probably
can't get into, They're going torequire work experience first,
(57:15):
and they're going to require workexperience over a college degree.
The companies that need bothcollege degree and work experience.
Go find another one.
There's another one that will not becauseultimately you go find another job.
It goes, listen, I don't reallycare what degree you have.
Do you get the results done?
Because I know enoughCEOs and so do you, Dave.
(57:35):
I know enough of the peoplethat are actually hiring.
I have met with, consulted with, coachedwith enough individuals now at this point.
That I am fully convinced that Iknow thousands of people that are the
job decision makers of their companythat will assign the paychecks of the
(57:57):
person working that would rather havethem have job experience and life
experience versus school experience.
And that is across the board.
You can easily get a job thatpays extremely well, that
provides for your family.
That allows you to put food on thetable and buy assets over time and
allows you to really put in a footholdinto this country so that you can
(58:19):
have that dream that we were all sold.
That dream is bought by hard work, bydedication, and by spending less than
you make and taking your differencebetween what you spend and what you make.
And investing it into assets,wealth and financial freedom
as a second grade math formula.
So everything above secondgrade math, you do not need in
(58:40):
order to have financial freedom.
Dave Conley (58:42):
you just spiked the football.
I think everybody should print out thetranscript over the last few minutes
and hand it to every 18 year old.
Jerremy Newsome (58:49):
Yes.
That's it, baby.
Bring it out and give it to them
Dave Conley (58:54):
Excellent.
Jerremy Newsome (58:55):
Well, family.
Here are some truths for every singleperson listening that if you want
education and you want intelligenceand you want wisdom, those three
components of a brighter futureprobably are and should be free.
If you have access to the internet,you have access to income.
(59:17):
Ladies and gentlemen,listen to what I'm saying.
It is available for you.
It is available at your fingertips.
It is available at the end of yournose at the beginning of your eyes.
This is simple and it is availableto every single person that
has access to the electricity.
When you have the ability to tap intoall the intelligence and information and
(59:38):
wisdom that is available in this country,it is the implementation of that knowledge
that will lead you to the path of growth.
and actual true impact.
Every single person listening to thiswants to provide more, make more, earn
more, be worth more, and give more.
(59:58):
You all want that more in your life.
So each one of those is the requirementof you stepping up and saying, I want
to be a better version of myself.
What does the best versionof myself need to do?
Need to think need to believe needto act on and need to contribute so
that you can be a portion Of each oneof those five subsets of the greatest
(01:00:21):
version of yourself It is simple,but it is simpler not to wealth and
impact are easy They are easier notto we have the ability to shift this
country And to make massive, incredible,amazing transformational change.
But it's all going to start withevery single one of these listeners
(01:00:43):
getting together, going down the pathof educational change, educational
transformation, educational reform.
And as we do that, we will inspirethe generations in the future of this
country to become world leaders, tobecome thought leaders, to become
emotional savants, and to be fully aware.
That we all have the ability andcapacity and capability to be
(01:01:06):
more and to love more through ouractions and through our thoughts.
But that will not happen until westart making humongous changes in the
educational system of this great country.
Thank you so much for listening.
We will continue to go down this path.
We will continue tosolve America's problems.
This has been another episode.
Thank you so much for listening.
Ladies and gentlemen.
Welcome back over the last few episodes,Dave and myself and to our guests.
We've been digging into one ofthe biggest questions out there.
Is college still worth it.
And after everything we'veuncovered, I can say this.
We are not in the same placewe were when we started.
(00:23):
We have all been told that collegeis the best path to success.
Is it?
Dave Conley (00:31):
So that was really cool about doing these episodes is that we
start in one place and we have this likethesis, we have this assumption and it's
okay, we come in with our own biasesand our own like life experiences and
we were questioning, even if a degree.
With the student debt and whether,whether any of it made any sense anymore.
It's Oh, you got YouTube, yougot AI, you got all these other
(00:53):
things that are available to you.
And I think I know through my lens,it was like, man, there was no way
I've been trying to get students.
out of the system.
It's I want to go to college.
And I'm like, no, don't do it.
So as we talked with the educators,the entrepreneurs and the
experts, I think we realized it'snot just about college itself.
That's a huge component, right?
(01:14):
But it's affordability.
It's outdated education models.
It's the lack of emphasis on differentways that people can be successful
and how they might be able to do that.
And I think you brought it up,several times and we'll get into it.
It's look, this there's lots ofthere's lots of ways to get there.
And the amount of education thatgoes in at the beginning of telling
(01:35):
a student or a prospective student,let's do this is like nil, but here's
a hundred thousand dollars of debt.
Jerremy Newsome (01:43):
yeah.
The one that just frustrates me the most,I think Is some shift between how hard it
is to get an SBA loan, business loan, newstartup loan, new venture loan, something
versus getting a loan for college.
That is an easy shift.
(02:03):
Very easy to change rightout the gate is okay.
If we're going to make it very simpleto get a college loan and for whatever
reason, go for it, you're gonna geta liberal arts degree where you will
literally never ever pay that off.
Okay.
Hey, Microsoft help.
You can sign on the dotted line andyou can go get all of your money, all
the money that you want, and then goto Belmont and, quarter million dollars
(02:24):
a year, get your liberal arts degree.
Okay.
But then the government or theinstitutions or that same lending
institution should be available foranyone who wants to start a business
as well, have a business plan, haveit drawn out, have it written out.
This is what you should be able to do.
Okay.
And the same speed at which theywill get approved for a student loan,
(02:48):
get approved for a business loan.
Dave Conley (02:50):
Yes, and I think that's absolutely one solution that, that's
right in the money spot because, here'sthe running theme that we keep on running
into, whether it's our first serieson school safety and school shootings,
whether it was college, we talked alittle bit of national debt, and we've
definitely hit it on some upcomingthemes that we're hitting, is that
(03:11):
there's no cheerleaders for any of this.
There's nobody yet that we have found thatis saying, Hey, this is working great.
Don't touch it.
Don't mess with it.
And it seems almost ludicrous that thepeople who are actually empowered to
actually make the changes to do this,are, they seem to be living in, I
don't know what it is, they seem to beliving in some sort of fantasy land.
(03:33):
You Where all of the policy, whetherit's government or these institutions,
the colleges, or the, even the companiesthat are getting college graduates
that are saying, Hey, this isn't,everybody is saying this isn't working.
What is it?
What is it?
So let's back up a little bit.
Let's walk through the episodes.
We started this.
Is college worse than cost?
And we started with Rob and Jeremy.
Jerremy Newsome (03:55):
huh.
Dave Conley (03:55):
Couple of cool guys.
Jerremy Newsome (03:57):
Yep.
Super cool dudes.
Dave Conley (03:59):
What was their story?
I recall that I think it seemedlike we had 20 degrees between
the four of us in that room.
Jerremy Newsome (04:06):
It was so fun.
Jeremy with his 412 different degrees.
And it's like constant, like I needto get degrees, like it has to happen.
and then Rob really, what was fascinatingis Rob also had a more pro take on
college for a lot of different reasons,but one of them he famously said listen,
(04:29):
if you're a black man in America, geta college degree, end of story, right?
End of the story, because you'regoing to be looked at differently.
If you don't, and that is a way tocontinually distinguish yourself right
from black man to black man, like that'swhat he mentioned as a really beautiful
(04:52):
direction for a lot of men in thiscountry who want to create distinguishing
differentiation between themselves andsomeone else of the same skin color.
All right, go get a degree.
Got it.
So for him it was also awesome becausewe had that really great conversation.
It was mandatory in his household Therewas no other choice You had to get a
(05:13):
college degree And that is because hisparents did find really good success and
for those of you who remember in thatconversation Their parents did choose
the degrees that do pay relatively wellessentially both engineering degrees and
so for his parents, they got a good degreebecause those jobs were very relevant.
(05:36):
They were high paying.
They were very strategic and veryspecific falling really into the
stem right aspect of degrees.
And so for his parents making it mandatoryand the entire time of you growing up for
Rob, his parents were saying, you have togo to college, you have to go to college.
But.
No, you have to go to college.
(05:57):
This is the type of degreethat you have to get.
You can't just go to collegeand get a basket weaving degree.
You got to go and become an engineeror you got to go and work in finance
or systems arbitrage or whatever.
And that those are the requirements.
I think that was just really a beautifulpaint portrait and picture because
(06:19):
the more that family unit encourageschildren to go after, not any degree,
because they, even 30 years ago, hisparents, We're very aware that there are
some degrees that are better and thereare some degrees that are worth it.
And there are some degreesthat you definitely shouldn't
(06:40):
even waste your time with.
I think is an obviousdirection to implore.
Dave Conley (06:46):
I went to graduate school with a lot of Indian nationals and
their running joke was in their family.
They were either.
Engineers, doctors, lawyers,accountants, or failures.
Because it was so in, just in theculture, in their family, like
there was no question that thefamily units and the culture that
(07:07):
they were in valued education.
I think you see that in across,Asian communities for sure.
And.
I, so I got a question for you because Iwant to hit this on a future episode when
we're talking maybe race, we'll just talkabout race and, as such a big thing here.
And I'm curious if I absolutelybelieve Rob as far as saying, Hey, as
(07:32):
a black man you have to go to collegein order to to, to how did he put it?
He said, To just to gain accessand higher level of opportunities.
There was no other way tosucceed without a degree.
And I'm curious if that is true.
My, my understandingagain it's really basic.
My understanding is that.
(07:54):
If you look at anybody from a given zipcode, meaning that they're in, like if
they're in a upper income zip code, likeright on Washington DC or in New York
or in LA or San Francisco, no mattertheir race, no matter who they are male
or female, no matter what their raceis, they will have similar outcomes
in life because of the zip code thatthey're in, the schools that they go
(08:16):
to, the high schools, the people thatthey surround themselves, that if you're
in an upper, if you're in a middle.
Solid middle class or an upper middleclass, or an upper class zip code, those
people tend, it seems to just go out inthe wash saying that race isn't the most
critical factor when it comes to that.
I do believe that if you are not inthose zip codes, then race is more
(08:39):
tightly correlated with income, and ifit's correlated with income, then all of
those opportunities go out the window.
So I'm, I wanna figure that one out.
Jerremy Newsome (08:48):
yeah, that's a really.
Dave Conley (08:51):
Now, I might be wrong, right?
But that is, but it's I don't know.
It's not saying that race isn'timportant, but I'm saying, is it
that important for, upper middleclass and middle class families?
Is it the same?
I don't know.
I don't know the answer.
Jerremy Newsome (09:03):
Yeah.
I think what you said is the zip codeis that's probably worth definitely
finding and doing some good research on.
Because if you're in the zip code andyou have a race that stands out, that's
potentially different than others.
If you are not doing what the otherpeople in that zip code do, you probably
still will be relatively ostracized.
(09:24):
Example, if 85 percent of thiszip code is race car drivers
and you're the only dentist,
Dave Conley (09:33):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I get it.
Jerremy Newsome (09:34):
you're right.
Exactly.
You're probably, people are gonnaprobably think you're a stranger.
If everyone in the zip code or thevast majority of software engineers,
and you're the only influencer.
That it doesn't matter your age.
It doesn't matter your race.
People are gonna think you'reweird anyway, and you're probably
gonna have tons of friends.
So it for me the perspective reallyis the ability for you to distinguish
(09:56):
yourself, not only from societal norms,but also to just be aware of how you're
going down your trajectory of education.
As long as people are comfortable thatyou put in the work, the time and the
elegance of the grind, the evidence ofthe grind where it's like, Whoa, okay.
You didn't go to college, but youflipped 150 houses and you have a story
(10:22):
or you didn't go to college, but youwent to jail and you got out of jail
and then you've learned what not to do.
And you studied on the backs ofIndividuals that taught you and
you read a bunch of books and nowyou are an incredibly high echelon
tax paying individual of theunited states of america, right?
That's a story of Resilience that'sreally the human emotion is the reason
(10:44):
that college is there is because itis hard To get a good degree as you
go through college right going touniversity of florida, which was a big
college still is obviously at the time,we have a mutual friend, Dave, that his
son got a 1520 on his SATs and couldn'tget into the University of Florida.
And again, I'm not saying that's probablya bad thing for UF, by the way, like
(11:05):
you're missing out on someone that almostgot a perfect SAT score, that's rare.
But to the same degree that ifsomeone's going to any college and
graduates from that college, If it'sa high end, upper echelon college,
that still comes with some markerof this person put in the time, the
energy and the effort to actually win.
(11:29):
And it doesn't obviously ultimatelyprobably even matter if it's college or
if it's a four year work experience whereyou went to work for four years versus
going to college and now you have workexperience and your boss or your bosses
have this glowing report that, Hey.
Dave knows how to put in the work.
Dave knows how to put in the time.
He did X, Y, Z proficiently.
(11:50):
You're probably still going toget a really good job placement
because you showed resilience.
That's what most peopleare putting out there.
And a lot of times collegedoes show that resiliency.
Dave Conley (11:59):
So do you, is another way of saying that, do you think that
there's a bias or a prejudice evenof people who don't have a degree?
Jerremy Newsome (12:07):
Oh, is there a prejudice?
There is, yes.
In fact, I would saythis, there's a prejudice.
Whereas if you don't have adegree, you better have a story.
There, there better be a reason why.
And for example who right now isgoing, Oh, Zuckerberg, what a failure?
No one,
Dave Conley (12:27):
Okay.
Jerremy Newsome (12:28):
Not a single person ever.
Cause the guy was inHarvard, but dropped out.
Could he get finished?
Sure.
Sure.
Could have.
But now he donates 3 billiona year to the endowment fund.
So I was like he's good.
That perspective though, hedoesn't have a college degree.
Now, I don't know if he's actuallygone out and got one since just for
the giggles, but there's tons ofpeople that if you do not have a
(12:49):
degree and this country, yeah, youbetter have a really remarkable story.
Dave Conley (12:56):
This is, so this is what I heard here.
Here's where it was because I, I did comeinto this first episode in particular and
being like no, don't go and get a degree.
Even though we know thatcollege graduates they, over the
longterm, they do make more money.
They do have better health outcomes.
They, there's you live longer.
There's a lot of things that likego into it, but here's some things.
(13:19):
We learned from Anya in the secondepisode that like the biggest debt
that people have are the peoplewho didn't finish their degree.
And I'm like, Oh no.
Like they actually got in, theystarted doing it and they couldn't
afford it or something happened orlife got in the way and it's oh, no.
So that's the worst of all worlds.
It's like you started, but you didn't.
(13:40):
And then we learned like a bunch ofpeople are in jobs that don't even
require a degree or they're not using it.
And then it's like there is thatmismatch of, yeah, there's a
bias against people who don'thave degrees and the value of it.
In the workplace.
(14:00):
I don't know.
I don't know how I'm saying,you know what I'm saying?
I'm trying to, I'm trying to get it.
I was like, look, it, the collegedegree doesn't matter a whole lot,
Jerremy Newsome (14:09):
Yeah.
Dave Conley (14:10):
but there's this heavy prejudice against it and there's
a lot of places that, require acollege degree and like on and on.
And I'm like, when we talked aboutreforming this thing, I think it
happened in the later episodes,which will, you know, which is
this does need to be redone.
I don't know, but let's talk about the,in this first episode, we also talked
(14:30):
about trade schools and the value of that.
Jerremy Newsome (14:33):
Yeah.
I love trade schools, man.
I'm a big, huge proponent of those.
Huge.
Because my, my theory again for howwe can radically shifts the business
model that is college that is failingthis nation is if you don't know
exactly what you want to do, right?
(14:53):
So someone goes, I don'tlike you fill out a form.
Do you know what you want to do?
Yay or nay, nay, go toa trade school, right?
If you know what you want todo, it's still not an exact.
You have to go to college.
So here would be a form.
Do you know what I want to do?
Yes, I want to go finance degree.
Okay, why you want toget a finance degree?
So I can make a bunch of moneytrading the stock market.
(15:15):
Okay, Jeremy Newsom, don't go to college.
Bye.
if you do go to college, you'regoing to pay more because
you're going to make more.
You're going for, you're going forfinance literally to make money.
So your whole job isgoing to be to make money.
Yeah, that's why you pay for it.
That's why you have to pay for it.
You don't have to do anything.
You don't have to pay for it.
There's no scholarships here.
(15:36):
Enjoy.
All right.
So that depends on howbad that I want it now.
And if I go out and get that degree,I have to pay for that degree.
And I have now understood that'ssomething that I want to do.
So I'm going to go to college so theycan figure out what they want to do.
And they're going to spend five, six,seven years, like to your point, growing
their debt and then maybe getting a job.
Probably doesn't pay for their tuition.
(15:58):
College experience or if they dropout two years in and they hated it.
Now they go get a job.
They still have that debt for those twothree years Yeah, if you don't know why
you're going to go to college You'renot really sure you have to slash you
should go to a trade school because tradeschools is hey You're going to get a on
the job training ojt like you're going tolearn something that probably AI is not
(16:23):
going to take away from you anytime soon.
These jobs are mechanicaloil changes, welding, right?
Doing, working on HVAC systems,doing plumbing, electricity.
Like these are jobs that robotswill take a hundred years from
now, like nice and far away.
Maybe maid services great people needtheir apartments or their house or the
(16:47):
things clean is like people will pay forthat all the time Laundry services like
you can learn so many things in tradeschools Because it is on the job train.
Like I say, Hey, this is a job.
We're going to teachyou how to do this job.
And the, in this job, you're goingto make money because jobs pay money.
That's what they do.
Huh.
Huh.
Dave Conley (17:05):
That's a t shirt.
Jobs pay money.
I'm a a hundred percent yeson this and I'm going to say
this again, future episode.
Like I, I'm just like, okay.
For a future episode, I want to talkto more people in trade schools.
Because I think this also dovetails reallywell with what Karen was talking about in
our third episode, which is there's a lotof ways that we can reform the system.
(17:26):
And one of them is lifelonglearning and micro credentials.
Now, when I think about a tradeschool, this is why I want
to talk to people in trades.
is that often it's very, no punintended, but labor intensive.
And those labor intensive jobswill take a toll on your body.
And not only do these jobs need tohave good pensions and maybe unions
(17:50):
involved, but also ensuring that, youdo make a lot of money in this, that,
in particular, something happens onthe job that, you're taken care of,
that there's also, career paths insideyour trades and those micro credentials
can teach you all sorts of things.
Maybe it's managing people.
Maybe it's getting into thebusiness side of things.
Maybe it's starting abusiness on your trade.
(18:11):
Maybe it's some other aspect of yourtrade that isn't so labor intensive.
And so that's where I'm like, okay,let's talk to people in trades because
I want to understand What thosecareer paths are, because you're a
different human being in your earlytwenties than you are in your fifties.
And it's you're not, if you're stillslinging bricks in your fifties.
Wow, God bless you.
(18:32):
But that's tough.
Jerremy Newsome (18:33):
Yeah.
Yep.
Yep.
Exactly.
You don't have to, I think there'sprobably a lot of other things
you can do in that situation.
Dave Conley (18:40):
And there was other things around this, right?
There was also like, okay, wedidn't talk enough about military.
We have a lot of, people in themilitary that listened to us
and they're friends of ours.
That's a career path.
If you don't know where ifyou're like, I'm a, I don't know.
It's not just, Trade school or college.
It's and there's serviceit's there's gap years.
That's go and be an intern.
I know I, I was not emotionallyprepared to go to college and the
(19:03):
type of college that I went to.
And the, just the idea of man, just togo and take a year when I was 18 and
travel and work and intern for a year,just get some education social education
around making money and people and,just try some things and just do some
(19:24):
intern work for real estate or whatever.
And just see what it's allabout before I went to college.
Yeah.
Jerremy Newsome (19:31):
yeah.
I think those are, I think those are bigpieces and I think that's something that
can easily be constructed, probably.
More just from the topdown approach, right?
Imagine if you have the president justopenly talking about this relatively
often, where Hey, this is the educationexperience going forward, right?
This is what's available.
This is what's opportunistic.
This is what's possible.
This is the changes that weneed to make going forward.
(19:53):
This is what we should make going forward.
These are the tiny micro adjustments andtweaks that we can make on this education
system and really the mindset behind theeducation system about what's available.
I mean imagine more and more teenagers18 and 19 taking their leap years or it
being relatively mandatory before youeven go into college unless you have a 3.
(20:15):
8 GPA or higher you now need to goand you have to do a year of work as a
submission before you go into college.
And yes, you're going to rewardthe ones that are academically
like ready to go, they're on fire.
But if they're, a Jeremy Newsomeand they're going to, they're
just squeaking by and they wantto just go make a bunch of money.
(20:36):
It's like, all right let's go work first.
And thankfully nationwide insurancewas one of the companies and there
are companies Out there that will payyou to go to college if you're working
for them And that's a mind blowingopportunity in itself But nationwide was
one of those companies and the hilariouscaveat was I had to work 60 hours a
week And so I was like, wait a minute.
(20:57):
Are you telling me I onlyhave to work 60 hours a week?
And you guys will also helppay for my college and I can
take any degree that I want.
They're like Bro, if you work60 hours a week, we'll pay
for whatever college you want.
I was like Yeah, that'sa no brainer, right?
We're talking with us 12 hoursa day for five days a week.
What do you want me to dowith all my other time?
I'm confused.
60 hours.
Dave Conley (21:19):
Was it enterprise that does that to enterprise rent a car?
Jerremy Newsome (21:21):
Enterprise rental is one of them.
Verizon used to be one of them thatthere's a few man out there, like
pretty big companies that will paytheir employees to go to college.
And here's the crazy part though.
Imagine, Dave, how many peopleat Danish Hawaiian Insurance were
not working 60 10 other people,I was like, what are you doing?
(21:43):
I don't get it.
So again, it's just one of those thingsthat wasn't, I don't think this message
is championed enough by people where ifyou're not going to college, I've been a
big proponent of, Yes, there's a reasonif and if you don't know, then there
absolutely should be a very easy pathfor you to learn to figure it out, right?
(22:04):
You just mentioned the military.
We talked about trade schools.
We talked about internships.
There's going to be on the job trainings.
There's another, I'm a big fanof, which is apprenticeships,
even better than internships.
I think there's tons and tonsof companies that could offer
should offer apprenticeship roles.
Where again, you can still paysomeone very nicely because interns
essentially is just free andthey're just working for no reason.
(22:27):
Like they got bills too.
But apprenticeships, it'sprobably even a better program.
Dave Conley (22:32):
There's a, there's an attitude shift I would love to see,
which is also in most of the rest ofthe world, like retail jobs and food
services, jobs are professions And youcan make good money doing those things.
And here it's often equated withlike people who are in school or
(22:52):
young people or people who are,wanting to go off and do something
else it's seen as temporary work.
And I think there's this attitudeshift of not only is blue collar
work valuable and needed trades andpeople who are in trades valuable and
needed that, most people in the UnitedStates don't have a college degree and
(23:12):
that people who are doing jobs like.
Like food services
those, they, to elevate them asprofessionals and not just treat
it as a job that anybody can do.
I waited tables and I did not last long.
, it's it's hard.
Jerremy Newsome (23:30):
Yeah.
But it is, to your point, like thoseshould be, there should be certain some of
those that some people should experience.
And again, everyone should just havethat yep, this is a role that I can
go into as a someone in a certain ageto potentially try to go to college.
Should I also work myself throughschool, go into the food industry,
(23:50):
the service industry, justso you can learn interaction.
You, I think you said theword earlier, societal, right?
Just learn your societal roles, yoursocietal norms, wherever you are in the
country to just understand how to bewith people and talk to people because
if it was made, if it became this.
Let's call it a life credit you goto college And if you are going to
(24:11):
college, you can submit a W 2 or youcan submit a, I have worked for another
organization for more than a year.
You automatically get a reductionof four credit hours, right?
That would be an awesome solutionbecause now you're going to
incentivize and reward people who dowork before slash while they're in
(24:36):
college, because Dave, guess what?
All the people don't.
A lot of people like, man, this wholecollege thing I, this is enough for me.
I'm like, it's not, no, it's not 12 hoursis a full time plate for college credit.
Which is three, four hourclasses essentially or four or
(24:59):
three hour classes either way.
So 12, 16 credit hours isoh, what are you doing?
That's your, you're getting two.
Oh boy.
Sixteen.
That's only four, fourhour classes a week.
It's what are you doing?
There's so much more time left.
(25:19):
So yeah, being able to reward childrenand rewarding our young teens who are
going to college and working with sometype of credit reduction bonus point
system of some kind to have jobs alsoI think would be remarkable because
then you're giving reasons to also beworking and go to school simultaneously.
Dave Conley (25:41):
Love it.
Love it.
Let's talk about let's touch onthe second episode in this series.
It was With Anya Cummins.
Jerremy Newsome (25:50):
Yeah.
Dave Conley (25:51):
20 years ago, she wrote these books saying, Hey, this whole
college debt thing, this isn't going togo into the right place 20 years ago.
Jerremy Newsome (25:57):
Yeah.
Dave Conley (25:58):
And everything that she talked about coming true.
Jerremy Newsome (26:03):
Yeah.
And she predicted a studentdebt crisis, and it's huge.
It's huge.
Debt keeps growing because collegecosts is outpacing inflation and
graduation remains, graduation ratesare remaining about the exact same.
I think one of the things that she'smade pretty clear is the need for
policy and systemic change, right?
The policymakers haven't adapted to anykind of these economical, economic shifts.
(26:28):
And I think ultimately just beingaware that, that while the price
of college is going up, thatadditional price, you're not really
receiving anything extra for it.
Essentially saying hey, if you wereto pay more, why can't you get on a.
Higher likelihood graduation path, right?
(26:50):
If you do pay more, can I get,does that come with tutoring?
Does that come with, and somecolleges might have this.
I don't know of any right now, butif, Hey, I pay for a little bit more.
So instead of 55, It's not an extra5, 000 a year that I'm paying.
I get a tutor.
I get office hours.
I get.
(27:11):
Classes that someone holds my hand andreally just helps me out and answers
and stayed over and, the teacher'sassistant helps me and spends time
with me and so on and so forth.
So if you are going to pay extra,cause that's what happened,
that's what's happening right now.
People are paying extra.
They're not getting anything extra for it.
And there are professionsthat stay in debt, including
(27:33):
the medical licenses, right?
Medical degrees andmedical debt is bananas.
And they stay in thatdebt for 30, 40 years.
Dave Conley (27:43):
Yeah.
Into your fifties, right?
Because you don't get out ofschool until you're mid thirties.
What
Jerremy Newsome (27:47):
And you're not making actually any real
money until you're mid forties.
Like real legit good money.
So yeah, it is.
It's really mind blowing.
The amount of debt that thepeople are just going under
to just, to get into this.
And I think that's awesome.
And she tracked that down and statedthat the traditional four year
college model is outdated, right.
Which is really that simple.
That standard go for four years.
(28:10):
Outdated.
Dave Conley (28:11):
how did.
How did Karen put it that, Hey, the systemdoes have, some value we've been doing
it, but we've been doing it basicallythe same way for a thousand years,
Jerremy Newsome (28:21):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Dave Conley (28:23):
Like it hasn't changed much since the dark ages, literally.
And, but Anya and Karen, theyintersected in a really interesting
place, but we can focus on Anya first.
She said, there's some thingsthat are really working and
we want to do more of that.
(28:44):
Anya mentioned, oh, it was the WesternGovernors Association and they're the ones
that are working with industry and theydevelop these skill based education along
with students having a success coach.
And Karen mentioned the same thing ofworking directly with industry to be
(29:06):
like, okay, we know that the collegegraduates you're getting you're saying
loud and clear that they are not readyfor work and that you're having to retrain
them as soon as they get out of college.
So let's work together and hey, maybeyou guys can sponsor this rather
than the students footing the bill.
There was Australia, which was like,okay, you only pay back a percentage
(29:31):
of your income based on your degree.
And what am I missing?
Oh, you, you said you, we should payfor experiences, not for education.
Jerremy Newsome (29:41):
Yeah.
I think those
Dave Conley (29:42):
There were some good ones in here.
Yeah.
Jerremy Newsome (29:44):
there was, man.
I think, again, I think one of mysolutions that I can, that we can
end up bringing to the table atsome point in the future really
is that awareness piece, right?
Where again, the education's if you haveall this stuff for free online, they're
not coming there for the education, right?
They're coming there for the experienceof learning how to meet people, talk
(30:05):
to people, interact with people.
The education is there.
I went through tons of classes where thelecturer was just speaking about really
cool ideas and all the stuff was online.
And the professor was like, Allright, cool, hey, just go check
everything online and, take your test.
But the idea of the classroom was thisI could just easily see this model where
(30:26):
the idea starts to change, where it'sno longer everyone sitting in these
giant, Rose and these stadiums, theseauditoriums, just listening to an orator
speak all the time, where it's much more,all right, let's get everyone up on stage.
Let's have these conversations.
Let's all sit around these circles.
Let's sit around these internet campfirestyle discussion tables where we really
(30:49):
start addressing some of the topics ofnot only what are we doing, but how are
we doing, how are we doing it better?
And what is everyone tryingto learn from this class?
What are we trying to do with it?
And.
Okay, great.
What is the ultimateobjective of this class?
Are you trying to get a credit?
Are you trying to get a grade?
Are you trying to learn?
Are you trying to make more money?
Are you trying to better your life?
(31:10):
Are you going to use portions ofthis to become a better person?
Having these implementationsof really knowing what the
students are trying to achieve.
And bring that to the forefrontand just really laboring that point
home where this you pump out thebest of the best in every class.
And every teacher has this kind of vision.
(31:31):
You now have people that canpay more for these experiences.
Where again, you're going on a threeday hike and camp with your whole class
and you're now paying for that hikeand you're going on this hike and now
you're outdoors and you're learning.
And if this is a science or biology.
(31:53):
You're there hands on.
And those are what create memories.
Anyway, people are going to remember thatthree day hike for their whole entire life
versus being in a room for four hours.
Those are the thingsthat people can pay for.
Those are some experiences that asyou just start understanding on the
bigger scope, all these teachers thathave always told me, just like Karen,
(32:17):
that there needs to be some level ofchange because we've done the exact
same thing you did since the dark ages.
Like we have to start making these shifts.
We really need to
Dave Conley (32:29):
Here's what I didn't, here's what I didn't get from episode
two with With Anya was why I like I'm Imaybe I'm just the one I don't think I'm
the only one just struggling with this.
I struggled with it in our first roundof school safety and school shootings
and I'm struggling with it again on this.
Is, why did it get so expensive?
(32:51):
Why do we have so many administrators?
Why, what is this, isthis massive inflation?
I think it's easy to say theavailability of easy money means
the price of it's going to go up.
And maybe that is the answer, but theUK has the same problem, and I don't
know, is it because of loans, and I don'tknow I'm still at the what happened?
We've heard about our parents generationwhere they could work full time, or
(33:16):
they could work a part time minimum wagejob, and, More than pay for college,
Jerremy Newsome (33:21):
yeah,
Dave Conley (33:21):
like what happened?
Did you hear that in anybody we talked to?
Nobody had that one, right?
Jerremy Newsome (33:27):
no, I don't think, I don't think overarchingly
because obviously the answer issome level of inflation, right?
Price is just extremely higher.
And that is the answer of what happenedis profits went up for companies
and corporations and companies aremaking more money now than the Bible.
Like the, you take the richestman in the Bible and companies are
(33:50):
making more money than those guys.
Now.
And you just have inflation throughthe absolute roof because companies
are becoming more profitable andthey can make more money faster.
And they therefore aren't goingto really expedite the prices
of charging less because of,capitalism and we're allowing that.
And again, it's an interesting awarenessbecause that's, that is what's occurring.
(34:14):
Like the amount of people that aremaking goo buckles of money based
off of just the interest rates.
Yes, they gargantuanly peered into.
Dave Conley (34:22):
Yeah.
It's every time we know that everytime there's somebody in between,
like the student and the university,everybody has to get paid money.
And This isn't all demand driven.
It's not like every student stood upand say, I want a rock wall and full
time housekeeping, Like it wasn't that.
So there are people getting filthyrich on this being broken like this.
(34:45):
And they clearly have influence.
Jerremy Newsome (34:48):
Yes.
They do.
And I think that's the thingthat at some stage needs to be
really gargantuanly peered into.
Through whatever organization or companyor product or person that wants to start
understanding this more because the systemis being too profitable and it's not
(35:10):
cared about enough where they're makingtoo much money and I'm down for money.
I love it.
I am.
I am that guy.
I am just aware that I think there areprobably certain industries slash sectors.
Where there should be some levelof cappage because if you're going
to go into certain levels andcertain sectors We're like, okay.
(35:31):
I just want to be in this for the goodof the humanities I want to be in this
a good for the world All right, cool.
And if you're at the top of thatheap, you're the top of that pile aka
Let's say you're the CEO of Goodwill.
All right.
Awesome if you want to be in that roleYou probably know that you're gonna
start topping out at a certain level Andthat certain level is a baseline level
because we got to feed the profits backto the people that are going through it.
(35:51):
We can't live off the backsof all the people that we're
putting through this machine.
And that's what we're, that's what'shappening right now with college.
The college players, for example, thatjust, this is just starting to happen.
This has been my idea for five,six, seven years where we absolutely
should be paying our college athletes.
For sure.
(36:12):
Like you pay them because a lotof college sports bring in obscene
sounds, sums of money, millionsand millions of dollars a year.
And you're paying these coaches tocoach the kids that they get the
education for free and that's it.
They're not going to get any money.
Dave Conley (36:30):
Everybody, every other student who works for
the university gets paid.
Like it's a no brainer.
Jerremy Newsome (36:35):
Unbelievable, dude.
So there is a money machine.
There's a money monstersomewhere out there that's never
really, truly been hunted down.
And I would love to hunt downthat money monster and find out
where it is, where it's all going.
Because I think if the collegerequirements where you got to take your
endowment or your certain level of doubt,you have to put it into this instrument.
(36:58):
And this instrument is now,once it hits a certain level.
We now know that it can pay forthis amount of students perpetually
for free and the staff and allthe things just off of interest.
Now education does become free.
And you start, you can applythat model to enough people.
(37:18):
It'll work.
Dave Conley (37:20):
It strikes me that there's no transparency in the model really.
Like we, we don't really knowwhat the overhead costs are.
We don't know what tuition even is, right?
There's a there's probably a, there is apublished tuition, but it's okay, how many
of this is, how much of this is loans?
How much of this is reduction in, likewho actually pays the full rate and.
(37:42):
When you put in almost unlimitedamounts of money that loans can
be taken out on, then the system'sgonna grow to fill that up.
And I, this was yet another one whereit's like, where does the money go?
Because it's it is so muchmoney, and it's like, what?
(38:02):
Where does it go?
I,
Jerremy Newsome (38:04):
Yeah.
Dave Conley (38:05):
I don't know.
I it strikes me, it I, like mymagic wand on this is like, why?
Maybe the student loan thing is thepiece that's not really working.
So maybe it's, I don't know ifmoney is the access problem.
If we took more money out of thesystem, more people might have access.
Does that make sense?
Jerremy Newsome (38:23):
Yep.
It does.
It does indeed.
And I agree.
I don't think that I don't thinkit's an access thing right now.
Realistically.
I just think that at some level of systemarbitrage and information arbitrage,
it's not being properly released andit's being a little bit too confined.
And it's not being sharedopenly enough, right?
To your point, there's just not a lot ofinformation out there openly for most of
(38:49):
these organizations that are making somuch obscene profits off of these students
that again, to that point could, if theorganizations were as good as they want
to be or claim to be, Could you say onthe back end, Hey, we're going to get you
great jobs, great education, pay us lateroff of what amount of money that you make.
Dave Conley (39:13):
So here in episode two we.
I think this was the only this mightbe the only episode that we really
touched on the college loan forgiveness.
And I recall that's that Ithink most of you and maybe our
guests were like not for that.
I don't know how we all landed on it.
I'm still, I'm stuck on this inthis place of, These are effectively
(39:37):
children and we've given themhundreds of thousands of dollars.
I, there's no chance that theywould understand the consequences
of carrying a loan for 30 yearsand what that actually means and
getting up to your eyeballs in debt.
Look, it's just you don't knowthe consequences of anything.
I, it's,
Jerremy Newsome (39:58):
I think that's a going forward thing though, versus going
backwards, meaning imagine right now,every single person you go, Oh, you,
every person that got a tattoo in thelast four years, they didn't really mean
to, we'll pay to get it removed versus,Hey, don't get tattoos on your face.
Until you're much, much older life.
And you're realizing that'sreally where you want to put it.
(40:19):
Okay.
Go for
Dave Conley (40:20):
How did you know what I was doing for my birthday?
A face tattoo.
Jerremy Newsome (40:23):
Don't get a horse tattoo on your forehead.
But when you're 18,you're like, Oh my gosh,
Place to put a horse tattoo than my face.
No, I think it's a thing of this goingforward, meaning that if someone is
already in student debt, I do notbelieve at any point in time the
taxpayer should say, Hey, sorry, bye.
(40:44):
All that money is gone.
We got your back.
I don't believe thatis the solution at all.
Do I think that student loanscould be included in bankruptcy?
Yeah, I do.
I think that's a possibility becausebelieve it or not, I don't currently not
reading any statistic, believe that mostBankruptcy comes from student loans.
(41:09):
I'm sure that there is a factor of that,but most bankruptcies happen because
of too much consumer debt and too muchmedical debt and not enough income.
And so it's a blendgenerally of those three.
Now, do those people that filebankruptcy also have student loans?
Maybe not.
I'm sure we can do thatresearch in a different point.
But what I'm getting at is, If in thatsmall subsection of people, we also
(41:33):
include student loans, whatever, right?
We already have bankruptcy nowand bankruptcy can remove all
kinds of debt that you don't like.
And so if student loans is added to that,is that going to dramatically increase
the amount of bankruptcies in the country?
I don't think so, believe it or not.
I really don't think that'sgoing to even cause a noticeable
or marginal impact whatsoever.
(41:54):
But to the point that, Going forward,you make student loans extremely
hard to get and not profitablenot obscenely profitable for these
companies that are issuing them.
These 30 year like you don't make, youdon't need to make that type of money.
(42:16):
And not only do you not need tomake that type of money off of kids.
Or very young adults But you shouldalso make it much harder to access
Meaning there needs to be full onfull fledged If you're going to get
a business loan Like I said earlierallow business loans to be as easy as
student loans are now or make them bothequally as hard One of the two, right?
(42:42):
Either make it allow where Ican go get a business loan.
And if I absolutely fail and good on me.
I tried my best or make themas so one of the two, right?
Make them super easy or super hard,but either one don't take one away
from the other and not the other.
I think that kids should havethe ability to get student loans.
Or business loans, and if they can geteither one, they need to do the exact
(43:04):
same diligence to get either one, andthat would dramatically reduce the amount
of student loans have to be filled outand get approved for if someone has
to go through even remotely rigorousprocess just to get approved for one.
Dave Conley (43:20):
I like that.
Hey, help me re, let'ssee if you remember this.
I know.
It came up and I'm sure our listenerswill probably remind me what it
is, but my understanding, maybeit was talking to Anya, was that.
Most of the student loan debtis owned by the United States
government and that the U.
(43:41):
S. government pays service providersto manage those debts with the
students, or with the formerstudents, with the, with the students.
They are the ones that actuallygo in and collect and manage it.
And I'm like, why?
Like this is like an accounting thing.
This is a spreadsheet and an onlinepayment portal, which the government
(44:01):
has plenty of if you've paid your taxes.
So why are there third parties involved?
Because they have to get paid.
They're not doing it for free.
So there was a piece in there,but my question for you, because
money better than anybody I know,why is their interest charged?
If it's government money that'salready been spent, it's already
gone to the universities the servicehas already been provided, why
(44:26):
would we charge any money for it?
Why isn't it a zero interest?
Besides being dischargeable,which I'm, I agree.
It should be at least dischargeablewhen everything goes wrong.
Why are we charging any interest on this?
Jerremy Newsome (44:38):
Yeah, exactly.
I think,
Dave Conley (44:40):
it's an accounting, like it's already been spent.
It's who cares?
Jerremy Newsome (44:44):
Yeah, or we make it to the point where it also is.
That's right.
Where's like, all right, we make it thatway where it's it's already accounted for.
It's already some type of financialbudget that the government
plans to spend regardless.
I think.
In that situation, man, thecharging of the interest.
I know why we're doing it.
Why are we doing it?
(45:06):
It's a better what are you doing?
I think having it where thestructured systematized.
approach that we do not make as a countryprofits off of kids going to school
would change dramatically how thisschool is structured in this country.
(45:31):
And right now, I think one of, whenwe were talking about the federal
budget and deficit and loans andall that stuff, one of the words
that came up a bunch was value.
What does this country Valueand right now this country.
It's number one value isProfits, that's our value.
(45:55):
Like how much can we?
Profit in any given situation and thatwhole interest portion is obvious of
that because these institutions andthese governments and these loans
They're all packaged together so thateveryone's winning except for the kids.
(46:16):
Everyone's winning exceptfor the end customer.
And it's not if you went out andasked, I'm sure out of a hundred,
90 percent of these kids would belike, no, I'm not happy with this.
No I feel like I'moverpaying for what I got.
I feel like I'm undervalued for what I amattempting to pay for every single month.
(46:39):
I don't think that they'regoing to feel like this is an
equitable decision whatsoever.
I didn't write book andmy company paid for it.
Like when I got my degree, I had 0in debt and I was like, I just spent
three years working 60 hours a week.
Plus my college time, I was put in100 hour weeks easy just between
(47:04):
work and school, but to that point,it's like at the end of that degree,
remember Nationwide paid for mydegree and shout outs to Nationwide.
I've always said goodthings about this company.
They not only paid for the degree, when Igot finished, I expected a raise because
they're the ones that paid for it.
(47:25):
And so you think that they would go,okay, now go work even harder, right?
So give me more things to do andpay me more for doing those things.
Neither one of those things happened.
I didn't get more rolesand responsibilities.
Okay, cool.
Now you're the customer service managerversus the whatever you were before.
I didn't get any more roles orresponsibilities proving to them
(47:48):
that I'm a good customer of their,loan tuition program, whatever.
Mind blowing to me.
Mind blowing.
Dave Conley (47:56):
that, that does feel a little bit like a disconnect, but cool.
You think at the end of thiswould be like happy graduation.
You've learned quite a bit.
That's fantastic.
Now you're on a, now you're ona, some sort of track, right?
Jerremy Newsome (48:09):
Something,
Dave Conley (48:10):
Yeah.
Some something or bonus or I don't know.
It seems
Jerremy Newsome (48:13):
even if the exactly, even if they don't pay
me more, but they work me harder,I would have expected something.
I don't know what I would expect.
And so some shift in theuniverse for getting a degree.
And so that's what I mean when I tellpeople, listen, the ability for you
to go out and actually get a degreethat single handedly changes how much
(48:34):
money you make that the percentage.
Is less than 3%.
It's less than 3%.
It's for, it's a single handedly makethat shift of, Oh, I have a degree.
Now I immediately make more.
Got it.
Because a lot of things you can do,the things you can do apprenticeship in
and make as much, if not more is 97%.
(48:56):
It's a huge statisticallyinsanely high number.
Yeah, man.
Is college worth it?
I think is the question ofquestions for so many kids.
And I continually find overwhelmingly thevast majority of time the answer is no.
The answer is no, it's not worth it.
And you can get the same degree, youcan get the same return, you can get
(49:18):
the same experience, you can get thesame knowledge for far less money.
For far less time.
Dave Conley (49:26):
That, that's exactly like our third episode, right?
We came in with this with Kyle and Karen.
Kyle's very much AI and YouTubeUniversity and boot camps and
it's I don't, wave you off.
And then Karen waslike, yeah, I like that.
And where, the rubber actually meetsthe route is working with industry
(49:47):
and shifting what we're doing.
And then she said something that reallyclicked with me that finally brought
everything home for me is that schoolstill is absolutely critical for critical
thinking, learning, adaptability.
Innovation, like those are goingto happen inside your schools if
(50:11):
the school is doing that work.
Otherwise, you're going to get the samethat you've gotten for a thousand years.
But if the school has got theirstuff together, they're doing the
micro credentials, they're doingthe certifications, they're doing
the public private partnerships,they're working, they have the
success coaches and they are bringingcritical thinking, innovative skills.
(50:33):
Rock stars that graduate and not justpumping out another college degree.
Jerremy Newsome (50:40):
Yep.
Yep.
And it's the fear that we havetoo many kids and not enough jobs,
but man, just wait until AI hits.
That's the whole buddy, becauseif you think there's an education
problem now, Dave, Oh my gosh.
So that's the thing is we need tostart fixing this ASAP because if there
(51:00):
is one problem that we need to fix.
To Karen's point, it is critical thinking.
We got to teach these kids immediatelyhow to begin to truly think critically,
how to think differently and todistinguish how many ways you can use pin
You got one pin, you give akid a pin hey, tell me the five
(51:23):
things you can do with this.
They're going to have a hardtime coming up more than two.
And just these really basic mentalexercises of knowing how to critically
think and knowing what critical thinkingis and why it needs to be used because
dude, AI is coming for all these jobs.
All of them
Dave Conley (51:40):
About
Jerremy Newsome (51:41):
centers, fully AI, accounting, AI, like graphic
design, AI video editing, AI,podcasts, AI, auto engineering,
AI, it's coming for everything.
And robotics is just as bad.
(52:02):
So really think that the criticalthinking component of a hundred
percent of the workforce right now.
80 percent's gonna bedisplaced within five years.
The 20% that are not displaced,they're gonna make 80, 80 times
more revenue, 80 times more revenue.
The 20% that do not get replacedwill make 80, 80 times more revenue.
(52:24):
And the 80%, 80% of the currentUnited States workforce are gonna
be fully gone in five years, andthey're gonna have to find entirely
new service roles, job roles, and.
If that doesn't scare at least a wholeginormous swath of our listeners, just
please know that it is coming our wayand we got to start helping these,
(52:48):
not only our kids, but the future ofour futures, how to navigate this tide
shift, because it doesn't mean thathumans will become inane and vapid.
What it does mean is that we nowhave the ability to create brand new
school systems, to create brand newemotional intelligence because now
(53:09):
you're going to have intelligencewill be the cheapest commodity, right?
That's what AI is artificial intelligence.
So intelligence is going to bemeaningless, but having intuition,
having the ability to meditate, havingthe ability to emotionally Regulate
and have incredible depth and emotionalconversations that are beautiful and
(53:30):
verbose and just full of juxtapositionsand deliberately, delightfully delectable
conversations that are really exposinghow people are feeling about things and
shifting and tweaking and adjusting.
That's what AI is notgoing to be able to do.
So we need to start.
Realizing that we're going to bebringing back the arts in a huge way.
(53:52):
We're going to start bringing backphysical exercise and PE in a huge
way because we're going to becomeeven more sedentary as a society.
Now you're going to have robots andmachines doing everything for you.
So this is going to haveto start happening soon.
I think people aren't preparedfor how fast it's going to occur.
Dave Conley (54:12):
Oh, yeah.
Future episode right there.
Another future episode.
Jerremy Newsome (54:17):
Yeah our listeners want a bunch, man.
So we're going to give them a bunch.
Dave Conley (54:22):
Let's let's wrap this up.
Let's if you're advising your 18year old self today, what would you.
What would you be telling a youngJeremy Alexander Newsome in 2025?
Jerremy Newsome (54:38):
I was really presently I was pleasantly surprised with my overall
educational output, because for everyonewho's listening, if you are 18, 19, find
a job that you work in now that could.
Either a directly pay for your college orbe indirectly pays for it directly meaning
(55:02):
Partion a portion of your paycheck.
They literally just you have to uploadtheir grades and there's a portal and they
pay for it Like amazing if you work fora company that pays for your schooling.
Yes, please And twice do that workas hard as you possibly can for that
company If it's indirectly, which isjust a good old fashion You take a
paycheck and portion of that paycheckgoes towards your college expenses.
(55:24):
Yes, and yes get a job first A job ismore important than education because
in the job, you will learn whatyou need to be educated for, right?
What portions of your education islacking, what you need to fill in
the holes for, get that job first.
Once you have that job, thengo and get that education.
And before you get the education,before you even go down the route of
(55:47):
education, spend an hour or two withyourself daily for a couple of weeks.
Asking yourself, whyam I going to college?
What is the outcome?
If the only main outcome is,I want to make more money.
Or I want to help more people do not goto college It is a waste of your time.
(56:09):
It is a waste of your energy It is awaste of your resources because the
truth is if you get into a positionand we're talking about the Extremely
rare position that you need to get ajob that actually Is based on merit of
a degree can go get one at that time
(56:30):
So if in seven eight years Your boss issaying oh you want to get promoted to
Shift supervisor and you're going to gofrom 25 an hour to 33 an hour And the
only way you can get that promotion isyou now have to get a degree guess what
now, you know exactly what type of degreeto get The company will probably pay for
(56:52):
it and now you have an exact reason togo because you now have a job and you're
going to be able to get that degree evenfaster because it's extremely clear and
you have intention with what you're doing.
That's going to give youa massive distinction.
And for the jobs that need a degreeright out of college that you probably
can't get into, They're going torequire work experience first,
(57:15):
and they're going to require workexperience over a college degree.
The companies that need bothcollege degree and work experience.
Go find another one.
There's another one that will not becauseultimately you go find another job.
It goes, listen, I don't reallycare what degree you have.
Do you get the results done?
Because I know enoughCEOs and so do you, Dave.
(57:35):
I know enough of the peoplethat are actually hiring.
I have met with, consulted with, coachedwith enough individuals now at this point.
That I am fully convinced that Iknow thousands of people that are the
job decision makers of their companythat will assign the paychecks of the
(57:57):
person working that would rather havethem have job experience and life
experience versus school experience.
And that is across the board.
You can easily get a job thatpays extremely well, that
provides for your family.
That allows you to put food on thetable and buy assets over time and
allows you to really put in a footholdinto this country so that you can
(58:19):
have that dream that we were all sold.
That dream is bought by hard work, bydedication, and by spending less than
you make and taking your differencebetween what you spend and what you make.
And investing it into assets,wealth and financial freedom
as a second grade math formula.
So everything above secondgrade math, you do not need in
(58:40):
order to have financial freedom.
Dave Conley (58:42):
you just spiked the football.
I think everybody should print out thetranscript over the last few minutes
and hand it to every 18 year old.
Jerremy Newsome (58:49):
Yes.
That's it, baby.
Bring it out and give it to them
Dave Conley (58:54):
Excellent.
Jerremy Newsome (58:55):
Well, family.
Here are some truths for every singleperson listening that if you want
education and you want intelligenceand you want wisdom, those three
components of a brighter futureprobably are and should be free.
If you have access to the internet,you have access to income.
(59:17):
Ladies and gentlemen,listen to what I'm saying.
It is available for you.
It is available at your fingertips.
It is available at the end of yournose at the beginning of your eyes.
This is simple and it is availableto every single person that
has access to the electricity.
When you have the ability to tap intoall the intelligence and information and
(59:38):
wisdom that is available in this country,it is the implementation of that knowledge
that will lead you to the path of growth.
and actual true impact.
Every single person listening to thiswants to provide more, make more, earn
more, be worth more, and give more.
(59:58):
You all want that more in your life.
So each one of those is the requirementof you stepping up and saying, I want
to be a better version of myself.
What does the best versionof myself need to do?
Need to think need to believe needto act on and need to contribute so
that you can be a portion Of each oneof those five subsets of the greatest
(01:00:21):
version of yourself It is simple,but it is simpler not to wealth and
impact are easy They are easier notto we have the ability to shift this
country And to make massive, incredible,amazing transformational change.
But it's all going to start withevery single one of these listeners
(01:00:43):
getting together, going down the pathof educational change, educational
transformation, educational reform.
And as we do that, we will inspirethe generations in the future of this
country to become world leaders, tobecome thought leaders, to become
emotional savants, and to be fully aware.
That we all have the ability andcapacity and capability to be
(01:01:06):
more and to love more through ouractions and through our thoughts.
But that will not happen until westart making humongous changes in the
educational system of this great country.
Thank you so much for listening.
We will continue to go down this path.
We will continue tosolve America's problems.
This has been another episode.
Thank you so much for listening.
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