December 17, 2024 • 66 mins
Unlock the secrets to mastering mental control and achieving peak performance with our guest, Joel Turner, the visionary creator of Shot IQ and Mind IQ. Joel's expertise in mental conditioning has transformed the capabilities of major league teams, Olympians, and CEOs, all striving to conquer high-pressure environments. We explore his fascinating journey from his early days in Eatonville, Washington, where his love for archery first took root, to his impactful career as a wildlife specialist and educator, to become a S.W.A.T. Sniper Team Leader and Instructor. Discover how Joel's innovative approaches, like the Turner Model, have reshaped the way we think about mental barriers and performance enhancement.
Our conversation takes you through the science behind conscious control and mental conditioning, revealing how athletes and professionals alike can break through subconscious blocks to excel in their fields. From exploring open and closed loop control systems to utilizing focused speech, Joel provides insights that redefine the mental game. Learn how a simple shift in focus and self-talk can lead to extraordinary improvements in sports and beyond, drawing from Buddhist teachings and personal breakthroughs in archery and other high-stress scenarios.
Join us as we delve into the transformative potential of mental blueprinting and commentary coaching. Joel shares powerful stories of overcoming performance anxiety and developing mental discipline, offering actionable advice for anyone looking to enhance their skills. Whether you're an athlete, a hunter, or someone striving for personal growth, this episode is a treasure trove of wisdom that promises to elevate your mental acuity and performance in any high-stress situation.
Learn more about Joel and the Turner Model at:
ShotIQ.com
MindIQ.com
TurnerModel.com
Learn more about George Blitch at:
SonofaBlitch.com
MapMyRanch.com
Podcast.SonofaBlitch.com
SonofaBlitch.com/reviews.html
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, this is Joel Turner with Shot IQ, mind IQ and
the Turner Model, and you'relistening to the Son of a Blitch
podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Hey everybody, welcome back to the Son of a
Blitch podcast.
I'm your host, george Blitch,and I just wrapped up a
phenomenal conversation withJoel Turner.
You guys might have heard abouthim.
He's the founder of Shot IQ andMind IQ.
You know, he is the inventor ofthe Turner model.
I first heard about him on aJoe Rogan podcast where he
started.
Joe was talking about how hetook his online course and it
(00:43):
made him such a more proficienthunter in the archery realm.
And you know, I looked intomore of it and basically, joel
is he's helping you to controlyour mind, to perform at the
highest potential in any arenain life and in the outdoor space
, in the hunting world, whereit's archery and long gun or
even pistol related.
That's where shot IQ kind ofcomes into play and I realized
(01:06):
that there's probably some otherthings that that can apply to.
And then, when I took the mindIQ course, I realized how this
is something that's applicableacross the board and we talked
about that today and, you know,especially in the hunting world
you know, of which I'm involvedin the outdoor space Uh, we
definitely spent some time there.
There, too, we talked about howthis can apply to other arenas
in your life and how he's workedwith people.
(01:28):
You know major league teams,olympians, all people who are at
these high pressure situations,and you know CEOs and what you
can do to make sure that you'recontrolling your environment and
being able to apply this modelthat he talks about to be the
very best that you can be.
And I'm not going to dive intoall that.
(01:48):
I'm going to let him tell youabout it.
So, you guys, make sure youtune into this episode.
Share with your friends.
There's so much to learn fromhere.
Make sure you check out theshow notes for the links to his
online course, and you know someother things that we talked
about that you know.
We'll point you towards thattoo.
So, guys, I think you're reallygoing to enjoy this one.
(02:12):
It's educational, it'sinformative, it's a lot of fun.
So make sure you share thiswith a friend.
If you'd like it, leave acomment below and, you know, let
me know what you think aboutthis one.
Please.
If you got any questions, makesure you reach out to Joel, and
we have the socials down belowin the show notes.
He's awaiting your call or yourtext or your email.
So, guys, thank you Withoutfurther ado.
Here is my interview andconversation with Joel Turner
from ShotIQ and MindIQ.
(02:34):
Y'all enjoy.
Hey, joel, good afternoon.
How are you doing today, man?
Good man, how are you Doing?
Fantastic.
Listen, I know we got so manywonderful things to talk about.
I'm going to jump into Shot IQ,mind IQ, how you got involved
with this and put together theseamazing programs, how they can
apply to so many differentpeople in so many different ways
.
But you know, with most of myguests, I like to start and just
(02:56):
kind of give a little bit ofbackground information.
Why don't you tell me a littlebit about you know where you
grew up and maybe how you gotinvolved in kind of the outdoor
lifestyle?
And you know, obviously youknow your career of service and
how that kind of you knowtransitioned into what you're
doing now, and so maybe we canjust, you know, go ahead and
we'll follow that thread as itgoes and we'll dive in deep as
(03:16):
we get there.
But you know, just a little bitof intro for the listeners if
you don't mind.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
So I grew up in a little logging town of
Eatonville, washington.
My dad was a logger for man 30some years and my mom was
actually the probation officerfor my school district.
So you didn't want to mess withMama Turner at all.
So me and my two older brothersstayed pretty much on the
straight and narrow on thestraight and narrow and uh.
(03:49):
But I, you know, I kept walkingby my dad's bear cub recurve in
the garage and I just kepteyeballing that thing and
wondering could I actually pullthat thing back?
And so one day my dad dadstrung it up for me when I was
seven years old and man, theobsession started at seven and
and uh, it just led to so manyamazing experiences in my life,
but frustrating man it wasfrustrating in those early days
(04:11):
of just you know, so much funshooting an arrow and watching
the mystical fly of the arrow,as Ted Nugent would say.
But man, so frustrating Cause it.
I started shooting at seven andat eight years old I I don't
know why I can't actually aim ata target without letting the
string go.
I mean, I would always let itgo early, I'm like not again.
But then I just try and try andtry and not realizing what I
(04:35):
was actually doing.
I was following the naturalpath of the human being.
Not knowing it, not knowingthat, that was a very
frustrating path in archery.
But you know, high school,college, I got a degree at
Central Washington Universityand I don't necessarily use that
degree but strategically I knewfrom an early age that public
(04:59):
speaking is the untold skill ofthe human being.
It's the greatest fear.
Public humiliation is thegreatest fear of the human being
, and I knew that.
And in college there was aprofessor, jim Huckabay, and was
a phenomenal public speaker,and so I basically followed that
(05:21):
man in college because he wasin the geography department,
which was, you know, cool nature, all that stuff, but it had the
most speaking in it, and sothat's what I really glommed on
to was figuring out a skill thatmost people are scared to death
(05:42):
of.
So that's where I went incollege.
And then, right after college,I was a wildlife specialist with
USDA Wildlife Services and thatwas just lots of fun shooting,
but it wasn't much money.
It wasn't enough money to liveon.
And so that's when I became acop, and my mom was in law
enforcement, obviously, and myoldest brother was a deputy
(06:04):
sheriff at the time, and so itwas kind of a natural calling
for me.
But in that as well became Iunderstood now that instruction
was my thing and I just lovedinstructing and I dove deep into
things, things that I hadproblems with as far as shock
control goes, things, thingsthat I had problems with as far
as shock control goes, and itjust, you know, becoming a cop
(06:26):
increased my determination tothe point where, like man, I
can't screw this up.
I've screwed up so much in thehunting world.
It was always my sounding board.
But now in law enforcement,like you can't screw it up.
And then, two years into, intobecoming a cop, you know you're
just starting to get your feetwet, you're starting to kind of
figure out what you're doing.
But I knew that I wanted to bean instructor and I got laid off
(06:51):
from the sheriff's office.
I was going to be laid off fromthe sheriff's office because of
budget issues, because I wasone of the low men on the totem
pole, and so I switched agenciesand with that agency I'm like I
want to be a firearmsinstructor and I want to have
the opportunity to test for theSWAT team, which was fairly
unheard of because I was stillon probation with this agency.
(07:13):
And they're like, yeah, we'lldo that.
I'm like, okay.
So two years into my lawenforcement career I got on the
SWAT team and was instantlythrown into the sniper team,
because I don't know if nobodyelse wanted it or they knew I
had a lot of firearms experience.
But what they didn't realize isit wasn't good firearms
experience.
It was just I shot a lot but Iwasn't that good.
(07:37):
I was, and I especially wasn'tgood in high stress events,
because I hadn't figured any ofthese things out yet.
So there I am, brand new SWATofficer and thrown on the sniper
crew and boy, you had to learnfast.
And so I had to dive in.
I dove into why I can't controlmyself and why most other cops
(08:01):
can't control themselves inhigh-stress shooting events, and
that's where we started tofigure out all these things and
the skill sets and the sciencesthat we needed to figure out.
And then Shot IQ was born andthen that rolled into all kinds
of instruction things and thenJoe Rogan occurred.
(08:22):
Then it was.
You know, I actually retiredOnce Bodie won the Vegas shoot
at 15 years old.
That's when I knew it was timeto retire and get out of law
enforcement.
And then Joe Rogan happened andthen it's just blown up from
there.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Well, I'd love to rewind a little bit because I'm
curious, no-transcript.
(09:13):
I wanted to know, like, how yougot involved with really diving
into that level of instructionand education.
What did that look like?
I know that there was a courseyou took where you learned about
, you know, open and closed loopsystems and we'll get into that
.
But I wanted to know, like, howdid you work on the betterment
of yourself in that situation?
And then obviously you tookthat to another level of being
(09:34):
an instructor and I was curiousabout those transitions, if you
wouldn't mind.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Well, it was it was born of frustration because I
had some control of my shot, butnot necessarily in high stress,
like if you put me on a target,I'm your guy, right, rifle,
pistol, slingshot, whatever.
I was your guy.
But you put me in high stressand I was no longer your guy.
(09:58):
And because I didn't know howto control my mind, in high
stress, because I didn't knowwhat was happening to my mind, I
didn't know what I couldcontrol and what I could not
control.
So I was seeing this and allthese other people, all the
other cops that I was around.
And again, two years into mylaw enforcement career, I became
a firearms instructor.
Well, as soon as I got mycertification, I started
(10:20):
teaching at the academy, becausethat gave me the pool of
recruits to experiment on.
And that's when one day I wasdealing with a recruit that was
literally bouncing bullets offthe floor.
The target was at 20 yards andhe's hitting the floor at 15.
So just extreme pre-ignitionmovements and in the firearms
(10:41):
instruction world, it was allstop yanking the trigger.
Why can was all stop yankingthe trigger?
Why can't you stop yanking thetrigger?
You know dummy round drills,all kinds of these things that
were not getting to the coreproblem of shooting, which is
your subconscious mind, will notallow you to cause your body
impact as a surprise.
It won't allow you to do thatjust out of happenstance.
(11:03):
You have to learn how toconsciously override your own
central nervous system.
How do you do that?
We didn't know at the time.
But that recruit that wasbouncing bullets off the floor I
was able to get him to controlhis shot simply through talking
him through it and then havinghim talk his way through it, and
(11:24):
that has evolved significantlysince that time.
I mean that was oh my gosh,that would have been 2003 is
when that happened.
And then I started writing aboutit and I started asking very
smart people around me about it.
And there was always this oneguy at the academy that we
didn't see eye to eye on muchand he came to me one day and he
(11:47):
seemed to be very, veryfrustrated with what I was doing
and he said what you're doingworks, but it's not right.
And he had the verbiage, he hadthe science, but I didn't have
those things, I only had myexperience.
So he said you got to take myclass.
I said sign me up.
So I took his course and that'swhere I learned what sciences
(12:10):
needed to be studied and thenbrought into a package the
science of open and closed loopcontrol systems, visual
proprioception how you actuallyaim neurolinguistic programming
what do words mean to yourconscious mind and once you
package the right sciences, nowwe've got something that we can
(12:31):
actually blueprint.
So when you shoot thatcontrolled shot, you're like, oh
, I know exactly how I did it.
And that seems to be a missinglink throughout mankind.
We don't know how we do what wedo and therefore we can't
blueprint it.
And that may be shooting, itmay be pitching Major League
(12:55):
Baseball, it may be hockey, itmay be shooting a free throw.
People don't know how they dowhat they do.
And then those people that aresuccessful, they become coaches
and then they have no way torelay that information of how
they did what they did to the upand coming athletes or whatever
(13:18):
.
So it's this very frustratingcircle of not knowing how we do
what we do, frustrating circleof not knowing how we do what we
do.
So that's all we've done inShotIQ is really figured out how
we do what we do, what mentalgame do you have to play, and
even the definition of what themental game is because people
say all the time, well, I'mworking on my mental game.
(13:39):
What does that mean?
So we defined it.
We defined the mental game asunderstanding where, when and
how to direct your consciousmind into a specific task at a
specific moment.
How do you do that?
Where do you need yourconscious mind, when do you need
it there and how do you put itthere.
So once you've got thatequation now you know what
(14:00):
values to plug into it for yourparticular problem and it
becomes very simple.
The how of the mental gameequation is always speech.
Speech is what moves thoughtsfrom the limbic system of the
brain to the peripheral cortex,where thinking can occur.
But thinking is speech, speechis your conscious mind.
So once we've figured thatstuff out now we can really
(14:24):
relay and we can get peoplesuccessful much faster.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
And especially when it comes to things where you
know we're talking about in,like the archery sense or the
you know shooting, whetheryou're hunting or target, you
know pressure, whatever it is,it comes up a lot of times.
You know buck fever, somethinghappens where it's in front of
you and you get panicked, youget anxiety and all these
thoughts just rush in there, allthe worries, maybe, all the
fears.
You're in that you know bottomof the ninth, two outs, two
strikes.
You're about to okay, I got tothrow one more but all those
(15:06):
thoughts can come in and canoverride your ability to perform
.
And this is what you've beentalking about, as one of those
tools is being able to usespeech, use thinking, and that
overrides the ability for you toeven have those different
thoughts come in and, as youtalked before in some interviews
, you like you can't have thosetwo things happening at the same
time, right Like our brains,even though we think we can
(15:28):
multitask.
In this sense, when you havethat focused on your thinking or
your speech, that's somethingthat you can kind of have that
be in the driver lane and I'dlove for you to kind of dive in
a little bit on that and maybeyou know you can talk about the
science there too, or what it isthat you find that that is so
important, and what kind of talkthat is, that speech, that
thinking, and how you might beable to apply it in some of
(15:49):
those scenarios we might've justspoken about.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
So the phrase thoughts aren't thinking was
very profound for me.
My buddy, ben Mayer, inAustralia, told me this and his
brother just happens to be aBuddhist monk.
This and his brother justhappens to be a Buddhist monk,
and that phrase thoughts aren'tthinking is from Buddhism, and
Ben explained to me how he usesit and I took that and I
dissected it to.
(16:13):
Really, thoughts are what youhear, thinking is what you say,
and understanding that you can'tcontrol your thoughts.
So all these thoughts that arerushing in on you, that doesn't
make you inferior at all.
That is what happens and youcan't control thoughts.
Thoughts are what you hear, butcan you override them?
(16:35):
That's where the skill comes in, right, that's where thinking
comes in, because thoughts haveno instruction, thoughts have no
strategy, thoughts cannot solveproblems.
Again, thoughts are just whatyou hear, thinking is what you
say.
So when you're in those highstress events, you have to speak
louder than the voice of thethoughts, right?
(16:59):
So, and understanding, what dowe say?
Well, that's the mental gameequation when do I need my
conscious mind?
So you take that problem thatyou're having where do I need my
conscious mind?
Like, let me give you anexample.
This is an example that I useall the time, because after the
Rogan podcast, evidently Ibecame an expert in everything
(17:19):
mental.
So I had a Olympic decathloncoach from a foreign country
want to do a video chat with me.
So I did a video chat with thisperson and I said give me your
biggest problem in the decathlon.
And he said okay, my biggestproblem in the decathlon is with
(17:41):
my long jumpers.
He says my long jumpers asthey're running down the lane,
right before they put their footon the launch board, they
involuntarily put theirshoulders back, which kills the
momentum of the jump.
I'm like, okay, who knew right?
So let's plug it into theequation.
I said I asked this gentleman.
I said where do you want theirconscious mind?
(18:01):
He said I want it in thelongest jump possible.
I said no, that's not theproblem.
The problem is not in theirlegs, the problem is obviously
in their shoulders.
So the where of the mental gameequation is in the shoulders.
The when of the mental gameequation when do you need that
conscious control of theshoulders is right before they
put their foot on the launchboard.
Okay, because that's when thisinvoluntary movement is
(18:23):
happening.
How do you put it there?
The how of the mental gameequation is always speech.
So, as they're running down thelane, right before they put
their foot on the launch board,they say shoulders, they say
forward, they say whatever putstheir conscious mind into their
shoulders and then it keeps itout of their legs, which is the
jumping portion.
All you're doing is fixingthese micro problems within an
(18:47):
event.
So that's how you use itUnderstanding that thoughts
aren't thinking.
The ultimate skill of the humanbeing and I'm sure you've
probably seen this on a podcastor something, or you heard it in
the Mind IQ course.
But you know, when you, I loveasking people this what is the
one skill, the one life skillthat has gotten you through
(19:10):
everything?
It gets you out of bed everyday, it gets you to work out, it
gets you to eat right, it getsyou to go through stressful
events.
It got you through your carwreck.
It got you through, you know,an argument with your boss.
It got you through everything.
It gets you through everythingevery day.
What is that one skill?
And people usually tell me theresult of the skill it's
(19:33):
discipline, it's mentaltoughness, it's grit, it's
consistency, it's persistence,it's they give me all these
things I'm like.
Well, how do you do that?
How do you get discipline?
They give me all these things.
I'm like well, how do you dothat?
How do you get discipline?
How do you get mental toughness?
How?
How do we do this?
Because if you don't teachsomebody how, it doesn't just
(19:54):
happen on its own right.
So what is this ultimate skill?
The ultimate skill is theability to get loud in your head
with the right words at theright moment.
That's the ultimate skill.
And now you start to use allthese problems to strengthen the
ultimate skill.
You start using your long jumpto get loud when you're having a
problem with your shoulders.
You start using your archeryshot.
(20:16):
Now you stand on one foot whenyou shoot.
Now you shoot in front of allthese people because it forces
you to get loud.
You get reps in practicing theultimate skill of the human
being, right.
So it's.
You know what's the differencebetween an elite athlete and a
not-so-elite athlete?
The elite athlete is louder intheir head, with the right words
(20:38):
at the right moments.
But how do you know what wordsand what moments?
That's where open and closedloop control systems come in.
If you don't understand open andclosed loop control systems,
you can't possibly know thewhere and the when of the mental
game equation.
So let's say that there's amajor league pitcher that's
(21:01):
having a problem throwing acutter right and evidently I've
learned through training thePhillies pitching team that to
throw a cutter you have toactually try to cut the ball in
half with your index finger.
I don't know anything aboutthat.
I go into these organizationsnot knowing what the problem is,
but those folks feed me theproblem and I give them the
(21:24):
mental game of the solution.
Right, because I understandopen and closed loop control
systems.
Open loop is a control system inyour brain for movements that
are smooth, fluid, fast.
You're not supposed to gainfeedback within that movement.
It's swinging a baseball bat,it's throwing a baseball, it is
(21:45):
shooting trap, shooting right.
If you're talking about theshooting world, it's moving
targets where you're going to goopen loop, on the trigger.
In the shooting world thatcauses a whole other problem.
But in most sports you'resupposed to keep your conscious
mind out of the actual movement,out of the actual motor program
(22:06):
.
But we have a tendency to putit in at the wrong time, so
we're using the wrong words atthe wrong moments.
Like what is the governing bodythat gets the basketball in the
hoop.
What's the governing body?
The governing body is your eyes.
It calculates the trajectory,how much power you put to the
(22:29):
ball and all those things.
But if you don't put yourconscious mind into that vision
and you put power to the ballbefore you put your eyes on the
rim, the trajectory can'tpossibly be right.
It wasn't even calculated.
It can't possibly be right.
So when you watch a basketballgame you will see when people
don't look at the rim they missway more often than they hit
(22:52):
that.
But if they look at the rimfirst, that's those really good
shooters, right.
So open and closed loop.
Open loop fast, fluid, notsupposed to gain feedback within
it.
Closed loop is slow enough youcan stop it.
Slow enough you can gainfeedback within it.
It's the precision rifletrigger press.
It's the pressure increase on atrigger.
(23:15):
It is the takeaway on your golfswing, right On the golf swing,
the takeaway.
That backswing is where yougain all the feedback.
But when you send it, when youdo the fore swing, if you put
your conscious mind into thatopen loop motor program, it
(23:37):
alters the motor program.
So you got to know what wordsand what moments to get that
portion of the metal gameequation.
You gotta know open and closedloop.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
So you, you talked about you talked about that too
that there was a time you werein Texas at the King ranch and
you were hunting and there was,you know, we, we talk about this
in different terms, whatever,maybe the yips, or just maybe
it's a it's a target panic orbuck panic, or maybe in this
sense, you know, we, we talkabout this in different terms,
whatever, maybe the yips or justmaybe it's a it's a target
panic or buck panic, or maybe inthis sense, you know it was hog
panic, but you ended up makinga decision about making a
(24:11):
controlled shot and you talkedabout that was one of those
times where you actually kind oftalked through this and took it
to that other level.
If you wouldn't mind, maybesharing that experience, and
then we can kind of key in onthe idea of, like, some of the
things that you're talking about.
Everyone has a differentprocess, but whether you're
shooting with, you know, a rifle, uh, you're clicking that
safety off, you're making thatdecision and you're going to
(24:32):
stick with it.
And you know, maybe we can tiein visual proprioception in that
too and how that you knowoccurs.
But you know how was thatmoment for you and was that the
first time that you kind oftalked through a shot and
because it seemed like it in theinterview that.
But I was curious when thatfirst time was that you applied
it in your life and how thatmade an impact moving there
forward.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
It was the first time that I was aware of it, cause
I'd made a just a few controlledshots of my life before that
time.
But because I didn't know whatI said and when I said it, it
was a mystery, right I finally Icontrolled my shot, but I don't
know how I did it.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
so they're blueprinted right yeah, you.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Just you can't blueprint it.
So then off you go and yournext one's going to be a mystery
as well.
So that one shot in 2008, when,that know, I was missing so
many shots on that hunt and Iwas not getting through my
clicker, which was my you know,it's a mechanoreceptive trigger
and I wasn't getting through it.
And everybody's making fun ofme.
(25:35):
I'm like gosh, what is theproblem?
And not knowing any of thesethings that I know, now you know
this is 2008.
At that time I'd been a sniperfor five years, right, and I'm
supposed to be able to controlmy stuff in high stress, but
then I would go in my bowhunting and completely crap the
bed, right.
(25:55):
So it was.
It scared me to death in thetactical world and was just
extremely frustrating in thehunting world.
So this one time I'd missed somany shots on this hunt, I got
pissed off and I just went tothis feeder by myself.
I tucked myself back in thebrush.
Feeder goes off.
Here comes the hog.
He's 50 yards out.
(26:16):
I'm like okay, turner, thistime, this time you got to do it
right.
Like, okay, got it.
Here comes the hog, right andhe turns broadside at 20 yards.
I didn't say anything else, Ijust drew my bow back and I had
the same anxiety, the samefeeling of weakness, the same
knowledge that I wasn't going toget through my clicker.
It was another crap show.
(26:37):
Like so many times before onthis hunt, I'm like man.
But this one time I had allthese feelings as I drew back
and I got the full draw on thishog.
He's 20 yards away, has no ideathat I'm there, and he's for
some reason I guess maybebecause I made that decision
(26:57):
when he was 50 yards out thatI'm going to do it right this
time.
I had all these bad feelingsand I'm like I'm not doing this
again.
This is Texas.
There's hogs all over the place.
It doesn't matter whether I getthis hog or not.
I've got to control myself onthis shot.
So I let that shot down and Igathered myself and I said I'm
(27:24):
shooting this shot perfectly orI'm not shooting it at all.
And that was the first timethat I got loud in my head with
the right words at the rightmoments, and previously I talked
about this is the first timethat I made a decision, but
really it's the first time thatI got loud enough to override
all the thoughts of, oh, I don'tthink I'm going to get through
(27:46):
my clicker.
That has no instruction, thathas no strategy, that is a
thought.
Thoughts can't solve problems,right?
So I said to myself, before Idrew my bow back, I said I'm
going to shoot this shotperfectly or I'm not going to
shoot it at all.
I picked my bow up and Istarted to draw my bow back and
it all started to slip awayagain, right, just like it
always did.
It all started, oh gosh, right.
And I said, nope, I'm going todo this right.
(28:07):
And I got my bow to full draw.
I got my aim.
And then I'm thinking I've gotto pull through my clicker.
It was no longer I got to getthe hog, it was I got to get
through my clicker.
And so to do that, I had toscream inside my head.
I'm like, keep pulling, keeppulling, keep pulling, keep
pulling, click, boom.
(28:28):
I shot that shot.
The clicker went off.
I shot the shot, I smoked thehog.
I'm like, oh, that was, Ifinally did it.
I'm like, oh, that was, Ifinally did it.
But I never blueprinted it.
So I went years, I went to 2014.
All those years, I killed a lotof critters in those years
because I could at least getmyself to the aim.
(28:48):
But I still could not getmyself through whatever
mechanoreceptor trigger release.
Whatever I was shooting at thetime.
I shoot lots of bows every day,I've got lots of different
techniques.
But, uh, 2014, december 14th2014, I shot a big old blacktail
buck in here in washington andI did not control my shot.
(29:09):
I smoked him, but I didn'tcontrol my shot and I'm, you
know, by this time, I this is2014 between 2009 and 2012, I
was the lead firearms instructorfor Washington State.
I was, I was the guy.
I mean, everybody had to comethrough me and my team for
firearm destruction, every lawenforcement officer in the state
(29:30):
, and you know, I had my stuffsquared away pretty good.
We built an amazing program ofcontrol and we got people in
control and you know we got somany thank yous of people that
we saved their life.
You know we say we did.
They saved their own life.
But they heard our voices,right, they heard the voices of
(29:52):
the firearms instructors duringtheir gunfight.
How powerful is that?
Right, it was them getting loud, but it just happened to be our
voices, which was cool, right?
So what a report to get back.
But December 14, 2014,.
I shoot this big buck and I didnot control myself again and I
(30:14):
sat in that tree stand like whatwas it about that one shot in
2008?
And I had done it again in 2010on a bull elk in New Mexico.
There was two shots.
They were identical because Isaid the same things at the same
moments, but I neverblueprinted it until December
14th 2014.
When I shot that buck, I was sofrustrated.
(30:37):
I smoked him, I mean, I hardshot him.
But I sat there and it got dark.
While I was in the tree stand,it was pouring rain.
I just sat there.
I got to figure this out.
So I went back to that one shotin 2008 and the one shot in
2010.
And I figured out what it was.
What did I say and when did Isay it.
And I was able to blueprintthose things, not knowing even
(30:59):
then that the skill that I waschasing was the ability to get
loud in my head with the rightwords at the right moments,
right.
So that day I made the vow tomyself I will never shoot
another uncontrolled shot on agame animal, or ever.
If it's a precision environment, I'm shooting with control, no
matter what, and that became mymantra no matter what.
(31:21):
I'm doing it this way, nomatter what happens.
364 days later is when I got inmy hostage rescue shooting.
Thank God that I figured thisstuff out before I actually got
in an event.
(31:46):
What would have happened between2003 and 2015, or that day in
2014?
I know what would have happened.
I would have yanked the triggerand, who knows, it may have
been good, it may not have beengood, but as a sniper tasked
with the taking of a life tosave a life, that can't even be
(32:09):
an option, right?
I mean, in bow hunting, yeah,you get some, you don't get some
, but as long as you controlledeverything that you could, then
you've done your job.
But most hunters out there andeven most law enforcement
officers out there and militaryunits out there, they're not
controlling everything that theycan, and that is sad.
(32:30):
There's still gunfights wherethere's 40 rounds fired and
nobody hits anybody.
Rounds fired and nobody hitsanybody.
There's science behind that.
The code has been cracked.
So let's get together and let'sfigure this out together.
So it's been one hell of ajourney.
So now I can say I mean, I knowhow I'm going to shoot my next
(32:57):
bull elk 10 years from now.
I know how the shot's going togo.
I don't know where it's goingto go, but I know that I mean
when I do my job it's probablygoing in the middle, but it's
not a mystery anymore.
And that's what I'm trying toget to people.
I'm trying to get you todemystify how you do what you do
, be that speaking engagements,be that basketball baseball
speaking engagements, be thatbasketball baseball, any sport
(33:19):
shooting rifles, pistols,archery right, if you're using a
firearm to save your life orthe life of another, you might
want this information so Well, Imean it's super valuable.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
I've I've taught so many different people in as far
as, like rifle hunting and youknow, starting obviously on a
target and there is, so I seethat idea too that, like your
body doesn't want to deal withan explosion, right, and how
everyone's kind of flinching,and you know so many people are
pulling the trigger, even witharchery, right, you know,
slamming that trigger and it'sit's you have to like try to
figure out how to talk to them.
And now I feel like it's easy,I can just send them to take
(34:03):
your course.
It saves a lot of time becauseI don't have all the verbiage
and the science to be able todownload onto them.
But, uh, you know, taking boththe shot IQ and the mind IQ
course, uh, you know, just dropthe just finished the mind IQ
today, you know, and seeing howthat can work on many different
levels, not just in the outdoorenvironment.
But for me, I've worked with alot of different people and try
(34:25):
to talk to them about, you know,being surprised when the rifle
goes off, and breathing andsaying things, and I never knew
and I couldn't really fullyblueprint it I could talk about
like what I would do.
Or I could go and see someoneand how they would sit in a
blind and be like, oh okay,you're doing this technically
wrong.
But then there that idea ofbuck fever and how everyone has
to have their own mental game at.
(34:46):
You know, full acuity andknowing what to do and being
able to blueprint something forsuccess.
And if you don't have thatalready and you haven't been
trained that it, everything cango out the window.
You know, even you can have allthe best preparations and, like
you said too, you can controlwhat you can control, like in a
hunting environment.
That doesn't mean that ananimal is going to jump at the
last second or something's goingto happen.
(35:06):
Or the wind, you know, catchesand picks up and moves the arrow
.
This much further.
Whatever could happen, there'sso many unknowns.
Uh, you know there could be abad primer or something.
Uh, you know there could be abad primer or something.
Anything could.
You know someone didn't.
You know, hand or load it theright way it's factory load,
whatever it could be, and youknow your shot might not be as
perfect as the last one.
So I found that there's so muchbenefit, uh, in the outdoor
(35:28):
space, you know and a lot oflisteners in that too.
But I think the application tooof you know I think Rogan
mentioned it too and when, whenyou were on there is saying, hey
, there's a lot of high stressand applications to this.
And that's where I was kind ofcurious of that idea of when you
went from you know you had thecourse as far as archery and
then you know long rifle andthen pistol, and obviously
(35:50):
you've done a lot of trainingand coaching you know with
people and instructing.
But when did you kind of makethat shift where you started to
move it into, uh, outside venues, outside of the outdoor world,
right, or you know, maybe in themilitary and you know police
training kind of Avenue?
When did you start to take thatand maybe develop that mind IQ
course and, uh, what did thatlook like then?
(36:12):
And that application of youknow moving out into all these
different avenues of thought,application of you know moving
out into all these differentavenues of thought.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
It was, you know, when we got on the.
Joe Rogan bought my onlinecourse back in 2016.
He was one of the first peopleto take it and he took it and
then he would talk about it onhis podcast.
I mean, I think he talked aboutme and the Shot IQ program on
like 11 different podcasts withdifferent people and that led to
(36:44):
other folks, you know, gettinghaving me come down and then now
I'm shooting bows with JoeRogan in the backyard and then I
got on the podcast and once youknow that podcast goes out to
so many people, that's when Istarted to get flooded with all
this stuff Because, like I said,when you get on the Rogan
podcast and Joe Rogan says, well, hey, this is applicable to
(37:08):
damn near everything in life,and you're like, yep, yep, I
like what you're saying, joe,but I don't necessarily.
At that time this is February of23, I did not have the words, I
didn't have it yet, and I'mlike man, joe, I love what
you're saying.
Right now You're helping me outhere, but I did not have the
(37:28):
words.
So I worked with some verysmart people and started to
figure out the application tothe rest of life and that led me
to the ultimate skill of thehuman being.
And once you get down to thebase problem, just like in
shooting, your subconscious mindwill not allow you to cause
your body impact as a surprise.
(37:49):
Once we figured out the coreproblem, now we've got a core
solution to that.
But, just like in the MindIQstuff, the application to this
for life it's too broad.
Right, it's too broad.
I mean I had people I hadprofessional bowlers calling me
PGA pros, calling me NBA folks,nfl kickers.
(38:13):
I had all these people callingme and wanting to know how to
apply what we do at Shot IQ totheir specific problem.
Had people with anxiety issues,all kinds of like.
Look, I'm not a doctor, right,I've just figured some stuff out
, a practical end, and it was Iwas training Andrew Huberman and
(38:37):
which was fascinating for mebecause he's such a smart dude,
you know, neuroscientist and allthis stuff and I made a
statement that actually kind ofpissed him off a little bit and
I said look man.
I said I'm not as smart as youare.
He said I'm going to stop youright there.
He said I don't want to everhear that out of your mouth
again.
I'm like, okay, roger, thatRight he goes.
(38:59):
You just look at things from adifferent lens.
I look at things from aclinical lens.
You look at things from apractical lens.
It's not that you know howsmart we are or anything like
that.
It's what are your experiencesand how clear is your lens.
Like my lens got polished.
(39:20):
It is extremely clear on how toapply this stuff to literally
everything.
It changes your approach toliterally everything when you
understand thoughts aren'tthinking.
When you understand the mentalgame equation, when you
understand open and closed loopcontrol systems and ultimately,
you know the skill that you'rechasing, the ability to get loud
(39:41):
in your head with the rightwords at the right moment.
So that's all you're doing inlife now is figuring out the
problem.
What's the mental game of it?
Where do I need my consciousmind?
When do I need it?
There, and the how is alwaysspeech right is always speech
(40:04):
right.
So it's been this journey,since I've been on this and I
have these key players in mylife that just say one little
thing, like Ben Mayer inAustralia oh yeah, turner,
thoughts aren't thinking.
I mean it was so funny toexplain the whole mind, iq and
the mental game and all thisstuff.
I mean we're sitting in thislittle house in New Zealand, it
was awesome, and I explain allthis stuff.
I'm very proud and I care aboutwhat Ben thinks about my whole
(40:27):
shtick here and he says, oh yeah, turner, thoughts aren't
thinking.
I'm like what the F did youjust say to me.
He's like, well, of course,thoughts aren't thinking.
I'm like what, what are youtalking about?
So that was just.
You know that, just theselittle things that just blow it
up.
And so now this practical lensthat we have is very clear and
(40:52):
it's helping a lot of people ina lot of situations, because
it's literally how you do whatyou do.
It changes coaching forever,like when I trained the
Philadelphia Phillies, thepitching staff there.
I asked them because I found outthat the coaches take pride in
their mound visits right, thisis the coach's chance to go out
(41:15):
and fix their picture at theirmoment of truth.
And I just asked all thecoaches.
I mean I'm sitting there with40 major league all the top
roster folks and 10 pitchingcoaches and six mental
performance coaches and allthese people in this little tiny
room and I said who are mycoaches?
And these 10 dudes raised theirhand.
I said what's a mound visitsound like for you?
(41:36):
And it was silence, right.
And then one of them finallypiped up and said well, I'd like
to ask them how they're feeling.
I'm like, oh great, what dothey tell you?
He said well, sometimes theysay they're feeling good and
sometimes they say they'refeeling bad.
I said that is a worthlessconversation.
And here's the problem.
(41:59):
I look at the pictures.
That said you guys don't knowhow you do what you do.
Can any of you explain to meright now what you say and when
you say it in your pitch?
One dude said that he could andhe just happens to be one of
the best in the world Super calmdude, but he was able to tell
me what he says and when he saysit.
Calm dude, but he was able totell me what he says and when he
(42:21):
says it.
But has he ever relayed that tothe coach?
But this particular pitcherdoesn't take very many mound
visits.
He doesn't need very many moundvisits where others?
Because they don't know whatthey do, how they do what they
do and the coaches have neverasked that question a mound
visit is pretty worthless.
Asked that question, a moundvisit is pretty worthless.
(42:42):
But now, if you know how they dowhat they do, you know what
this particular pitcher says andwhen they say it, and you've
manipulated that because youunderstand open and close of
control systems, now you canblueprint how you do what you do
.
And so the mound visit is hey,man, are you saying coil when
you lift your leg?
Oh, man, coach, I forgot.
Okay, let's get back to theblueprint, right?
(43:05):
So now you have this base thatyou can always go back to, so
that you don't have good daysand bad days anymore.
You just do what you do, right.
So and that can be said forarchery, pistols, rifles, any
sport, anything that you dounderstanding thoughts aren't
thinking, the mental game,equation, the ultimate skill,
(43:27):
the human being, all thesethings.
It's just fascinating.
It simplifies life.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
Man, it's it.
I love the application that youtalk about in all these
different avenues.
I think you need to come visitthe Houston Astros just you know
personally, I'd appreciate that.
I'll make some calls.
I know a few guys over there,you know, let's, let's get you
over there too.
We can't just have it be thePhillies, although my wife's
like no.
Phillies are good too.
We.
She's from that area, so, uh,we, we follow them too.
(43:57):
So when I heard you coachingthem, I was like, okay, all
right, you know, we got.
We got one of the teams, aslong as you don't go to like the
, the yankees or anything okay,okay but no, but that's um it.
It's amazing and you know youtalk about too, like the idea of
like when you say things andwhat, because you can say things
and it can be in the wrong time, because if you, if you allow
the, that space for the thoughtsto come in and that's where I
(44:21):
love the idea of like each oneof these applications to looking
at the blueprint of whateverthe action that is and figuring
out when to say what.
And you know the idea too, likeI was.
Just I was really inspiredyesterday, so I went out and got
the, my bow and arrow in thebackyard and as you and I talked
, I kind of started the archeryjourney recently and I've
something I've always beenfascinated with and went into a
(44:44):
archery country in Austin and,you know, kind of getting set up
and, of course, I found outthat I was left eye dominant.
So, okay, now switch hands,whole new process.
But it was great because I wasstarting at zero already and as
far as like, okay, I'm going tocome into this fresh.
You know, didn't have any badhabits developed at the time,
(45:04):
but I was working on things andin my backyard I've got, you
know, a good backdrop, but I was.
I was worried about what if Imissed the target, you know,
what if I go through the fence?
And just in my own head, aboutall the what ifs in my life.
I do that because I like tofigure out all the things that I
can, you know, control right,what if this happens?
I'll do this.
What if, then?
And I sat there and I was, youknow, like I said freshly, uh,
(45:25):
you know, inspired by goingthrough the course again and and
really got in there and I wastalking to myself about the
right time and I was rememberingyou, uh, chatting with Rogan
about your process of whenyou're pulling back, and you
know, I'm going to shoot theshot, no matter what, and shoot
with control, and the idea of,you know, pulling back and not
hitting the trigger, and all thethings that I was in my head
(45:45):
about.
And when I just sat there and Iwent through those motions and
said my own words, like, okay,here I go, I'm like I'm ready,
I'm ready, I'm ready.
Whatever it is, everyone canhave their own verbal mantra and
but I, I then I'm like hittingthe target right where I want to
and I'm like, damn, that is, Ineed to apply this not just in
(46:06):
the archery world, because Istarted like sweating, because I
was like I was worried aboutmissing the shot.
I don't want to hit it throughmy neighbor's fence, even though
I have a backdrop.
You know just all the what ifsand I realized that how much
fear can be an overriding thingfor so many people.
And it doesn't matter what.
It is public speaking.
You host all these events andget up there and talk in front
(46:28):
of hundreds or, you know,thousands of people.
I used to be a touring artistand I'd get nervous before every
single time.
Like sometimes I'd go and likethrow up, I got so nervous and I
never knew to talk to myselfabout that and walking myself
through those stages and Icouldn't tell you what it was.
But something switched alongthe way 10, 15 years ago.
(46:49):
I still get a little nervous,you know just okay, especially
if I'm dealing with thetechnical aspect of video or
audio.
I don't want to mess somethingup, right, but even in that
setup okay, george, you're goingto plug this here, you're going
to check this Everything's outof my control.
Outside of that and theapplication of those two things
it's seriously changed my life,joel, the last like couple
(47:10):
months that I've, you know, beentaking your course and studying
and it's something that I'vebeen able to apply it into a lot
of realms.
So I highly encourage otherpeople to go check it out.
And, you know, while we're onthe subject here, like, where
can people go and find out moreas far as, uh, you know your
programs, where can they sign upfor this?
And, you know, follow you tolearn more about this journey,
(47:30):
cause I'm sure a lot oflisteners right now are ready to
make that step.
I'm going to put in the shownotes below, but just, you know,
verbally, why don't you tell us, uh, you know the best places
to go ahead and follow along?
Speaker 1 (47:39):
So it's uh, it's shot IQcom If you're looking for
online courses in shooting andmind IQcom.
If you're looking for courseand online course in just about
everything in life, uh, if youwant to know the story of it all
, it's Turnerermodelcom.
And you can get both Shot IQand Mind IQ through
turnermodelcom.
(48:00):
But, like if you ever wanted tobook any speaking engagements
or something, that's all throughturnermodelcom and, uh, it kind
of tells the story of of me andand the whole journey that
we've been on at turnermodelcom.
So, um, that's how you getahold of me.
You can DM me on Instagram.
It's Joel Turner, actual.
(48:20):
And yeah, I talk with people ona very regular basis.
You know, I get either thankyous or they're concerned about
a certain thing and I walk themthrough their individual
problems.
But you know one thing for yourlisteners, even if they don't
take the course or whatever, itis one of the best skills that I
(48:42):
could ever give them and thishas been an evolution.
It started out this way, but itwas lost somewhere in the
middle and now it's become theforefront of my instruction and
that is commentary skillbuilding.
So, if you're shooting anarchery shot, it's speaking out
(49:06):
loud while you shoot the shot,because when you do that, it
completely cuts out all the crap.
Like you would not say, okay,I'm drawing back and aiming.
Okay, I got the full draw, Igot my anchor, all that's good.
Okay, got it, man, I hope thisarrow doesn't go through my
(49:26):
neighbor's fence.
You wouldn't say that, right,because in commentary skill
building it might be shooting,it might be basketball, it might
be who knows right, you'retalking out loud through your
process and that cuts out allthe crap.
Now what do you say?
Don't search for words, justspeak like you are teaching
(49:48):
somebody else, because that willgive you the words.
Teach somebody very specificallyhow you do what you do, and
it's fascinating for you toactually figure out what to say
and when to say it.
You can't go internal with it.
Like when I had that kid I callhim a kid, that recruit in 2003
(50:16):
bouncing bullets off the floor,I talked to him out loud and
got him in control of histrigger.
Then I had him say it out loudso that I, as the instructor,
could tell exactly what is goingthrough his conscious mind.
And I was able to manipulatethat because I understood open
and closed-loop control systems.
Well, now that's to the nthdegree, because now it's I can
(50:38):
really manipulate what you sayand when you say it.
And but if you, even if youdon't take the courses,
understand how you do what youdo, talk out loud during your
skill, keep it external untilthe conversation becomes easy.
When you know what you're goingto say and when you're going to
say it, then you can turn itinternal.
(50:59):
I just you know, I just did apodcast with somebody yesterday
and he was saying, man, and heknows all this stuff, I work
with this guy all the time.
But he said, man, on critters,this year I've shot seven deer
and I've shot you know eightarrows, seven deer, but I didn't
control five of those shots.
(51:22):
And I'm like, when was the lasttime you did any commentary
shooting?
He's like, oh, I haven't donethat for a while, right, so he
was in this limbo land becausehis conversation was not yet
easy.
I know what I'm going to say 20years from now.
That's very powerful If you'reyou know whatever you're doing
(51:44):
makes you a lot of money orwhatever it is to understand how
you do what you do.
It's fascinating to be able tothen relay that information to
others that are coming up inthat sport or whatever that
skill is that you're looking for.
Speaker 2 (51:56):
Well, and you, you talked about this too and I
remember I think it was on MarkKenyon's podcast where here's
this guy who's an amazing hunter, has had so much skill, and
then at some point in time somethings changed and he reverted
back to other ways that didn'twork and he ended up having, I
think he came out to you and youguys like trained, and you know
(52:18):
, he kind of got himself back inand got reminded of the process
.
And that's the thing too, Ithink people, you find out what
works and sometimes you you losetrack of it or you you lose
consciousness of that idea, ofthat process, of that blueprint,
and I always think it's areally good retraining tool.
I had it happen yesterday, youknow.
I was like shaking, like I'mjust worried about the shot,
(52:39):
anxiety, and I was like, okay,okay, what did I just learn
today?
Go back to the principles ofwhat works.
And then I was able to reset,but you don't.
I think it.
It takes a lot of practice inthe discipline to remind
yourself of that and to you know, practice that, like you said,
the conscious, you know thoughtsand speaking and having that
(53:00):
commentary is that we justforget sometimes what, what's
happening, because we think, oh,I've done this before and if
you're not conscious about it,you're not going to have this
exact results.
And the results are trying tobe as precise as possible in
whatever it is you're doing,right?
Speaker 1 (53:14):
So it's not natural.
It's not natural for you tocontrol an archery shot, to
control an explosion, tooverride your central nervous
system is not natural.
That's not what we're, that'snot how we're built.
This is a different skill thatwe're now really honing in on.
But it's not natural for you toshoot a basketball the same way
(53:39):
, shoot a free throw the sameway every time, because your
mind's like yeah, I got it, Igot it, I got it, let's just do
it right, let's do it.
Well, there's a portion of thatthat you want to just do it,
but there's other portions of itthat you can actually gain
feedback and that your mind getsbored with that.
It's like let's move on.
You look at the adult learningmodel.
(53:59):
The first stage is cognitive.
It's the cognitive portionwhere you actually talk yourself
through things, but it's verychoppy.
Then we practice with the goalof becoming automatic.
That's where your mind isalways pushing you towards is
automaticity.
I just want to do this.
That's where your mind isalways pushing you towards is
automaticity.
I just want to do this, let'sget this done.
(54:21):
If it's a high stress event, itwants to just get it over with
Results.
Be damned, let's just get itover with, right.
So it's not that we forget, it'sthat your mind is constantly
pushing you past it and you'realways having to come back to
the cognitive stage of learning.
Your mind does not like that,because that was years ago.
(54:43):
Why are we doing this this way,right?
So that's what you have torealize and be disciplined.
How do you be disciplined?
You get loud with the rightwords at the right moments,
because when you just you knowyou're yacking away with your
friends, then you draw your bowback and you're like oh, and you
yank the trigger like ooh, Iforgot everything on that one.
(55:05):
It's not that, you know, like inMark's case, he's a very
successful hunter, but at somepoint he reverted to efficiency,
right, and that's the moment hestopped talking.
When you look back and maybeyou're really good at a skill
and then all of a sudden you'renot that good anymore, it's
(55:28):
usually in some type of shootingskill, because, like basketball
, you don't get worse.
The more you do it In shooting.
The more you do it, the worseyou get, because the more
efficient you get.
So there's always this cliffwhere people are really good
about six months into it andthen they start punching the
trigger just before the pin getson the target right and then it
(55:52):
just snowballs into this bigthing.
That's when our game, let's useour shot to practice the
ultimate skill of the humanbeing the ability to get loud in
(56:12):
your head with the right wordsat the right moments.
Speaker 2 (56:15):
Love it.
And now I'd have to make surewe mention too when you were
talking about legacy and wantedto pick up that bow from your
dad.
You know your son, bode, hasbeen a multiple time world
champion, so I just I'd love tohear if you have anything you'd
like to say about, you know, theidea of him picking this up at
a young age and being able todevelop into one of the world's
(56:39):
best archers and maybe talk alittle bit about that experience
, and I'm sure that's got to bea proud moment for a dad, right,
I'm so proud of that kid andand he you know, he won the
Vegas shoe, which is the biggestindoor archer shoot in the
world, as a pro at 15 to standup there with all the best in
the world and to outshoot them.
Speaker 1 (57:00):
And now he regularly outshoots them at.
He's 17 years old now.
And but thank goodness, I wasworking.
He was born in 07.
And so I had from 03 to 07 towork on shot IQ stuff.
And even in 07, I mean that wasbefore the shot on the hog, so
(57:21):
I wasn't even squared awaymyself, but I knew enough to
where.
You know, bodie loved shooting abow.
I mean I had a.
At two weeks old I have in afront pack I'm slinging arrows
right, so he's seen thousands ofarrows go down range.
But at two and a half he's ableto shoot balloons out of the
air with his little suction cuparrows, you know.
And at three I bought him hisfirst compound and a release aid
(57:45):
.
And what did he do the firsttime he shot?
It?
Punched the crap out of thetrigger, because that's what the
human mind does, right.
And at three years old he'dshot some .22s and stuff as well
.
But what are you going to tella three-year-old that doesn't
have a developed mind yet youknow?
Oh no, you need to use closedloop for this.
No, you can't tell him any ofthat stuff, that's just right.
(58:07):
So at three years old, I didn'tgive Bodhi an option.
I gave him a tension-activatedrelease.
One of the greatest inventionsthat's ever come to the archer
world is a tension activatedrelease.
It's got a safety on it and ifyou don't pull, it doesn't go
off right.
So how that works is you pushthe safety in while you hook it
(58:30):
on your D-loop, push the safetyin, draw the bow back Once
you've aimed, then you take thesafety off and then you just
pull, you add back tension to itand you set the release to
actually fire.
You know, maybe four or fivepounds over your holding weight,
and it just forces people'sminds to separate from the aim,
(58:54):
which is number one.
And because you're doing aphysical action that requires
conscious thought, it breaks youaway from the aim.
It takes your consciousness outof the aim, puts it in the
release and then it forces youto actually do a big movement.
That's easy to talk yourselfthrough.
And so for kids, I can't standwatching kids shoot, punching
(59:18):
the trigger.
It's like you don't need to godown that path.
Parents, please get your kidattention activated release.
Call me, I'll give youinstruction.
Watch the Shot IQ onlinecourse.
It will show you how to setthis release up and then, once
they mature and they understandhow they do what they do, then
(59:39):
you can put them into a moreaccurate release system.
It's not the most accuraterelease, but it is the easiest
to control because of theattributes that it has.
So I don't put adults in those,because adults have enough life
experience.
They're just not loud enoughright With the right words in
the right moments.
Once I give them that, there'sno reason for adults to have to
(01:00:01):
shoot attention-activatedrelease, unless they obviously
choose to.
But if you shootattention-activated release as
an adult, you are not gettingreps in the ultimate skill and
you'll be stuck in that releasefor the rest of your life, which
is not the most accurate system.
So for young minds absolutelyquit giving them index finger
(01:00:22):
triggers and thumb buttons,because that's what dad or mom
shoots.
Get them attention activatorrelease.
That's what I do with Bodhi atthree years
old.
By six years old you could havea hundred different releases on
the table and Bodhi would runevery one of them because that's
how you do it.
I forced him into a closed loopcontrol system.
So, and now you know he hastaken this to the nth degree.
(01:00:44):
He knows all the technicalities, very technical shooter, like
uphill, downhill, wind, all thestuff.
So he's got the full packagenow he's a phenomenal shot with
a rifle and he just utilizesthis system every single shot
and then and he's been in thehighest stress shoot offs that
there are, them every singleshot and then, and he's been in
the highest stress shoot-offsthat there are.
(01:01:04):
I mean you don't get higherstress than what Bodie has been
in and and been successful inand also had little problems
within those shoot-offs.
But because he has this toolbox, he knows what words and when
(01:01:25):
to use them, his toolbox is verydeep, right and he is not
afraid to reach into thattoolbox if he encounters a
problem within a shot in a highstress event.
So yeah, very proud of thatyoung man.
Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
Well, that kind of leads me to the next question.
As far as you know, the idea oflegacy and what you're doing is
not only just changing theability and of success in the
outdoor space, obviously, withmind, iq and developing that,
this is applicable all acrossthe board.
And I was curious as far as youknow, is this something that you
(01:01:53):
I'm sure you can see theeffects of your instruction?
Uh, you hear the people callingyou.
You know you have folks likeRogan who talk about it
regularly still, and otherpeople who say, oh yeah, yeah,
yeah, you hear the peoplecalling you.
You know you have folks likeRogan who talk about it
regularly still and other peoplewho say, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah,
you know there's folks who arelearning from Shot IQ, mind IQ,
applying it and becoming betterversions of themselves or
(01:02:14):
realizing their potential.
However, you want to maybe saythat, but I was curious about
the idea of like what it is thatyou hope to instill in others
and leave behind, and how thiswork is something that you'd
like to be remembered and howthat ties into your thoughts on
legacy, and is that somethingthat you think about kind of on
a day to day basis?
Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
I think about it every day.
I want to be as positivelyimpactful on as many people as
possible.
Impactful on as many people aspossible.
I think you're you know, thejudge of your character is how
many people speak nicely aboutyou at your funeral.
And I have impacted a lot ofpeople and I want to impact
(01:02:53):
millions more, because,especially in archery you know
it gets back to archery because,I mean, my life revolves around
archery, because archery is thetippy top of human
concentration and I get peoplethat call me that say I think
I'm going to give up shooting mybow.
(01:03:14):
I get this a lot and they'relike, can you help me?
Because they're so frustratedbecause archery help me, because
they're so frustrated becausearchery is something.
It's more of a lifestyle,really, and we love it.
Like I'm still, at 48 years old, completely infatuated with the
mystical fly of an arrow.
I shoot hundreds of arrows aday.
I love it.
(01:03:35):
I love the challenge of it.
I can't imagine not shooting mybow.
Like I mean, in 2018, I got ina fight with a guy at work and I
tore my pectoralis tendon thenext day.
I was shooting with my teethright the next day because I'm
not going to stop shooting mybow.
I mean, matthew Stutzmandoesn't even have any arms and
(01:03:57):
he shoots his bow every day,right?
So there's a way to do it, toget this mystical flight of the
arrow and people call me and say, man, I think I'm going to give
up shooting my bow.
I'm like, why would you do that?
Like, that doesn't make anysense to me.
It's something that you love todo, but right now, it's just
giving you this massivefrustration.
Can you imagine how happy youwill be when you gain control of
(01:04:22):
your shot?
Something that we areconstantly seeking as human
beings is getting better at aparticular skill.
Archery is just fairly primalfor us, right?
It's been with us for a longtime, and so to be able to
control the highestconcentration level required, it
(01:04:43):
makes the rest of your lifemuch easier and it makes for
much happier people, right?
I mean, you see people that arein massive target panic.
They're not happy, right?
And then you see somebody thatjust crushed it, right?
They're like, man, I've gotcontrol of this, or I've got
control of this portion of mylife, or whatever it is.
It's very powerful stuff tounderstand how you do what you
(01:05:09):
do.
So that's what I want to beknown for is the guy that may be
not so smart, but I'm practicaland I bring simple solutions to
very big problems right.
So that's how I want to beremembered.
Speaker 2 (01:05:26):
Well, man, I just want to thank you for sharing
your knowledge.
Some people grab it and theyhold on to things.
You are amplifying this out,changing lives by the thousands,
by the tens of thousands, likeyou said, by the millions.
You're getting out there andpeople are using this to better
themselves.
I see it on a personal leveland you know, whenever I'm
(01:05:48):
reminded of what I need to doand I'm in the right zone, it's
amazing what the results.
And you know, sometimes you gotto forget to relearn it again,
but I love what I've learned andshot IQ, obviously fresh off
mind IQ, and just I find it sovaluable.
All the listeners, make sure yougo check out the show notes
(01:06:09):
below, go check out the websiteswe mentioned.
Again, all those links will bethere.
I'll have a link to the Roganinterview as well.
I found that fascinating andyou know you can see how many
lives that this can change and II love the fact that you know
you're sharing this in suchprofound ways.
Man, I thank you so much forjoining me today and discussing
this.
It's been a real treat and I Ijust appreciate you, man, thank
(01:06:30):
you so much.
I'll turn thinking, brotherCheers.
Well, you take care of it andyou have a great afternoon.
We'll talk soon.
All right, bro, take careCheers soon.
All right, bro, take carecheers.
Hey, this is Joel Turner with Shot IQ, mind IQ and
the Turner Model, and you'relistening to the Son of a Blitch
podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Hey everybody, welcome back to the Son of a
Blitch podcast.
I'm your host, george Blitch,and I just wrapped up a
phenomenal conversation withJoel Turner.
You guys might have heard abouthim.
He's the founder of Shot IQ andMind IQ.
You know, he is the inventor ofthe Turner model.
I first heard about him on aJoe Rogan podcast where he
started.
Joe was talking about how hetook his online course and it
(00:43):
made him such a more proficienthunter in the archery realm.
And you know, I looked intomore of it and basically, joel
is he's helping you to controlyour mind, to perform at the
highest potential in any arenain life and in the outdoor space
, in the hunting world, whereit's archery and long gun or
even pistol related.
That's where shot IQ kind ofcomes into play and I realized
(01:06):
that there's probably some otherthings that that can apply to.
And then, when I took the mindIQ course, I realized how this
is something that's applicableacross the board and we talked
about that today and, you know,especially in the hunting world
you know, of which I'm involvedin the outdoor space Uh, we
definitely spent some time there.
There, too, we talked about howthis can apply to other arenas
in your life and how he's workedwith people.
(01:28):
You know major league teams,olympians, all people who are at
these high pressure situations,and you know CEOs and what you
can do to make sure that you'recontrolling your environment and
being able to apply this modelthat he talks about to be the
very best that you can be.
And I'm not going to dive intoall that.
(01:48):
I'm going to let him tell youabout it.
So, you guys, make sure youtune into this episode.
Share with your friends.
There's so much to learn fromhere.
Make sure you check out theshow notes for the links to his
online course, and you know someother things that we talked
about that you know.
We'll point you towards thattoo.
So, guys, I think you're reallygoing to enjoy this one.
(02:12):
It's educational, it'sinformative, it's a lot of fun.
So make sure you share thiswith a friend.
If you'd like it, leave acomment below and, you know, let
me know what you think aboutthis one.
Please.
If you got any questions, makesure you reach out to Joel, and
we have the socials down belowin the show notes.
He's awaiting your call or yourtext or your email.
So, guys, thank you Withoutfurther ado.
Here is my interview andconversation with Joel Turner
from ShotIQ and MindIQ.
(02:34):
Y'all enjoy.
Hey, joel, good afternoon.
How are you doing today, man?
Good man, how are you Doing?
Fantastic.
Listen, I know we got so manywonderful things to talk about.
I'm going to jump into Shot IQ,mind IQ, how you got involved
with this and put together theseamazing programs, how they can
apply to so many differentpeople in so many different ways
.
But you know, with most of myguests, I like to start and just
(02:56):
kind of give a little bit ofbackground information.
Why don't you tell me a littlebit about you know where you
grew up and maybe how you gotinvolved in kind of the outdoor
lifestyle?
And you know, obviously youknow your career of service and
how that kind of you knowtransitioned into what you're
doing now, and so maybe we canjust, you know, go ahead and
we'll follow that thread as itgoes and we'll dive in deep as
(03:16):
we get there.
But you know, just a little bitof intro for the listeners if
you don't mind.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
So I grew up in a little logging town of
Eatonville, washington.
My dad was a logger for man 30some years and my mom was
actually the probation officerfor my school district.
So you didn't want to mess withMama Turner at all.
So me and my two older brothersstayed pretty much on the
straight and narrow on thestraight and narrow and uh.
(03:49):
But I, you know, I kept walkingby my dad's bear cub recurve in
the garage and I just kepteyeballing that thing and
wondering could I actually pullthat thing back?
And so one day my dad dadstrung it up for me when I was
seven years old and man, theobsession started at seven and
and uh, it just led to so manyamazing experiences in my life,
but frustrating man it wasfrustrating in those early days
(04:11):
of just you know, so much funshooting an arrow and watching
the mystical fly of the arrow,as Ted Nugent would say.
But man, so frustrating Cause it.
I started shooting at seven andat eight years old I I don't
know why I can't actually aim ata target without letting the
string go.
I mean, I would always let itgo early, I'm like not again.
But then I just try and try andtry and not realizing what I
(04:35):
was actually doing.
I was following the naturalpath of the human being.
Not knowing it, not knowingthat, that was a very
frustrating path in archery.
But you know, high school,college, I got a degree at
Central Washington Universityand I don't necessarily use that
degree but strategically I knewfrom an early age that public
(04:59):
speaking is the untold skill ofthe human being.
It's the greatest fear.
Public humiliation is thegreatest fear of the human being
, and I knew that.
And in college there was aprofessor, jim Huckabay, and was
a phenomenal public speaker,and so I basically followed that
(05:21):
man in college because he wasin the geography department,
which was, you know, cool nature, all that stuff, but it had the
most speaking in it, and sothat's what I really glommed on
to was figuring out a skill thatmost people are scared to death
(05:42):
of.
So that's where I went incollege.
And then, right after college,I was a wildlife specialist with
USDA Wildlife Services and thatwas just lots of fun shooting,
but it wasn't much money.
It wasn't enough money to liveon.
And so that's when I became acop, and my mom was in law
enforcement, obviously, and myoldest brother was a deputy
(06:04):
sheriff at the time, and so itwas kind of a natural calling
for me.
But in that as well became Iunderstood now that instruction
was my thing and I just lovedinstructing and I dove deep into
things, things that I hadproblems with as far as shock
control goes, things, thingsthat I had problems with as far
as shock control goes, and itjust, you know, becoming a cop
(06:26):
increased my determination tothe point where, like man, I
can't screw this up.
I've screwed up so much in thehunting world.
It was always my sounding board.
But now in law enforcement,like you can't screw it up.
And then, two years into, intobecoming a cop, you know you're
just starting to get your feetwet, you're starting to kind of
figure out what you're doing.
But I knew that I wanted to bean instructor and I got laid off
(06:51):
from the sheriff's office.
I was going to be laid off fromthe sheriff's office because of
budget issues, because I wasone of the low men on the totem
pole, and so I switched agenciesand with that agency I'm like I
want to be a firearmsinstructor and I want to have
the opportunity to test for theSWAT team, which was fairly
unheard of because I was stillon probation with this agency.
(07:13):
And they're like, yeah, we'lldo that.
I'm like, okay.
So two years into my lawenforcement career I got on the
SWAT team and was instantlythrown into the sniper team,
because I don't know if nobodyelse wanted it or they knew I
had a lot of firearms experience.
But what they didn't realize isit wasn't good firearms
experience.
It was just I shot a lot but Iwasn't that good.
(07:37):
I was, and I especially wasn'tgood in high stress events,
because I hadn't figured any ofthese things out yet.
So there I am, brand new SWATofficer and thrown on the sniper
crew and boy, you had to learnfast.
And so I had to dive in.
I dove into why I can't controlmyself and why most other cops
(08:01):
can't control themselves inhigh-stress shooting events, and
that's where we started tofigure out all these things and
the skill sets and the sciencesthat we needed to figure out.
And then Shot IQ was born andthen that rolled into all kinds
of instruction things and thenJoe Rogan occurred.
(08:22):
Then it was.
You know, I actually retiredOnce Bodie won the Vegas shoot
at 15 years old.
That's when I knew it was timeto retire and get out of law
enforcement.
And then Joe Rogan happened andthen it's just blown up from
there.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Well, I'd love to rewind a little bit because I'm
curious, no-transcript.
(09:13):
I wanted to know, like, how yougot involved with really diving
into that level of instructionand education.
What did that look like?
I know that there was a courseyou took where you learned about
, you know, open and closed loopsystems and we'll get into that
.
But I wanted to know, like, howdid you work on the betterment
of yourself in that situation?
And then obviously you tookthat to another level of being
(09:34):
an instructor and I was curiousabout those transitions, if you
wouldn't mind.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Well, it was it was born of frustration because I
had some control of my shot, butnot necessarily in high stress,
like if you put me on a target,I'm your guy, right, rifle,
pistol, slingshot, whatever.
I was your guy.
But you put me in high stressand I was no longer your guy.
(09:58):
And because I didn't know howto control my mind, in high
stress, because I didn't knowwhat was happening to my mind, I
didn't know what I couldcontrol and what I could not
control.
So I was seeing this and allthese other people, all the
other cops that I was around.
And again, two years into mylaw enforcement career, I became
a firearms instructor.
Well, as soon as I got mycertification, I started
(10:20):
teaching at the academy, becausethat gave me the pool of
recruits to experiment on.
And that's when one day I wasdealing with a recruit that was
literally bouncing bullets offthe floor.
The target was at 20 yards andhe's hitting the floor at 15.
So just extreme pre-ignitionmovements and in the firearms
(10:41):
instruction world, it was allstop yanking the trigger.
Why can was all stop yankingthe trigger?
Why can't you stop yanking thetrigger?
You know dummy round drills,all kinds of these things that
were not getting to the coreproblem of shooting, which is
your subconscious mind, will notallow you to cause your body
impact as a surprise.
It won't allow you to do thatjust out of happenstance.
(11:03):
You have to learn how toconsciously override your own
central nervous system.
How do you do that?
We didn't know at the time.
But that recruit that wasbouncing bullets off the floor I
was able to get him to controlhis shot simply through talking
him through it and then havinghim talk his way through it, and
(11:24):
that has evolved significantlysince that time.
I mean that was oh my gosh,that would have been 2003 is
when that happened.
And then I started writing aboutit and I started asking very
smart people around me about it.
And there was always this oneguy at the academy that we
didn't see eye to eye on muchand he came to me one day and he
(11:47):
seemed to be very, veryfrustrated with what I was doing
and he said what you're doingworks, but it's not right.
And he had the verbiage, he hadthe science, but I didn't have
those things, I only had myexperience.
So he said you got to take myclass.
I said sign me up.
So I took his course and that'swhere I learned what sciences
(12:10):
needed to be studied and thenbrought into a package the
science of open and closed loopcontrol systems, visual
proprioception how you actuallyaim neurolinguistic programming
what do words mean to yourconscious mind and once you
package the right sciences, nowwe've got something that we can
(12:31):
actually blueprint.
So when you shoot thatcontrolled shot, you're like, oh
, I know exactly how I did it.
And that seems to be a missinglink throughout mankind.
We don't know how we do what wedo and therefore we can't
blueprint it.
And that may be shooting, itmay be pitching Major League
(12:55):
Baseball, it may be hockey, itmay be shooting a free throw.
People don't know how they dowhat they do.
And then those people that aresuccessful, they become coaches
and then they have no way torelay that information of how
they did what they did to the upand coming athletes or whatever
(13:18):
.
So it's this very frustratingcircle of not knowing how we do
what we do, frustrating circleof not knowing how we do what we
do.
So that's all we've done inShotIQ is really figured out how
we do what we do, what mentalgame do you have to play, and
even the definition of what themental game is because people
say all the time, well, I'mworking on my mental game.
(13:39):
What does that mean?
So we defined it.
We defined the mental game asunderstanding where, when and
how to direct your consciousmind into a specific task at a
specific moment.
How do you do that?
Where do you need yourconscious mind, when do you need
it there and how do you put itthere.
So once you've got thatequation now you know what
(14:00):
values to plug into it for yourparticular problem and it
becomes very simple.
The how of the mental gameequation is always speech.
Speech is what moves thoughtsfrom the limbic system of the
brain to the peripheral cortex,where thinking can occur.
But thinking is speech, speechis your conscious mind.
So once we've figured thatstuff out now we can really
(14:24):
relay and we can get peoplesuccessful much faster.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
And especially when it comes to things where you
know we're talking about in,like the archery sense or the
you know shooting, whetheryou're hunting or target, you
know pressure, whatever it is,it comes up a lot of times.
You know buck fever, somethinghappens where it's in front of
you and you get panicked, youget anxiety and all these
thoughts just rush in there, allthe worries, maybe, all the
fears.
You're in that you know bottomof the ninth, two outs, two
strikes.
You're about to okay, I got tothrow one more but all those
(15:06):
thoughts can come in and canoverride your ability to perform
.
And this is what you've beentalking about, as one of those
tools is being able to usespeech, use thinking, and that
overrides the ability for you toeven have those different
thoughts come in and, as youtalked before in some interviews
, you like you can't have thosetwo things happening at the same
time, right Like our brains,even though we think we can
(15:28):
multitask.
In this sense, when you havethat focused on your thinking or
your speech, that's somethingthat you can kind of have that
be in the driver lane and I'dlove for you to kind of dive in
a little bit on that and maybeyou know you can talk about the
science there too, or what it isthat you find that that is so
important, and what kind of talkthat is, that speech, that
thinking, and how you might beable to apply it in some of
(15:49):
those scenarios we might've justspoken about.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
So the phrase thoughts aren't thinking was
very profound for me.
My buddy, ben Mayer, inAustralia, told me this and his
brother just happens to be aBuddhist monk.
This and his brother justhappens to be a Buddhist monk,
and that phrase thoughts aren'tthinking is from Buddhism, and
Ben explained to me how he usesit and I took that and I
dissected it to.
(16:13):
Really, thoughts are what youhear, thinking is what you say,
and understanding that you can'tcontrol your thoughts.
So all these thoughts that arerushing in on you, that doesn't
make you inferior at all.
That is what happens and youcan't control thoughts.
Thoughts are what you hear, butcan you override them?
(16:35):
That's where the skill comes in, right, that's where thinking
comes in, because thoughts haveno instruction, thoughts have no
strategy, thoughts cannot solveproblems.
Again, thoughts are just whatyou hear, thinking is what you
say.
So when you're in those highstress events, you have to speak
louder than the voice of thethoughts, right?
(16:59):
So, and understanding, what dowe say?
Well, that's the mental gameequation when do I need my
conscious mind?
So you take that problem thatyou're having where do I need my
conscious mind?
Like, let me give you anexample.
This is an example that I useall the time, because after the
Rogan podcast, evidently Ibecame an expert in everything
(17:19):
mental.
So I had a Olympic decathloncoach from a foreign country
want to do a video chat with me.
So I did a video chat with thisperson and I said give me your
biggest problem in the decathlon.
And he said okay, my biggestproblem in the decathlon is with
(17:41):
my long jumpers.
He says my long jumpers asthey're running down the lane,
right before they put their footon the launch board, they
involuntarily put theirshoulders back, which kills the
momentum of the jump.
I'm like, okay, who knew right?
So let's plug it into theequation.
I said I asked this gentleman.
I said where do you want theirconscious mind?
(18:01):
He said I want it in thelongest jump possible.
I said no, that's not theproblem.
The problem is not in theirlegs, the problem is obviously
in their shoulders.
So the where of the mental gameequation is in the shoulders.
The when of the mental gameequation when do you need that
conscious control of theshoulders is right before they
put their foot on the launchboard.
Okay, because that's when thisinvoluntary movement is
(18:23):
happening.
How do you put it there?
The how of the mental gameequation is always speech.
So, as they're running down thelane, right before they put
their foot on the launch board,they say shoulders, they say
forward, they say whatever putstheir conscious mind into their
shoulders and then it keeps itout of their legs, which is the
jumping portion.
All you're doing is fixingthese micro problems within an
(18:47):
event.
So that's how you use itUnderstanding that thoughts
aren't thinking.
The ultimate skill of the humanbeing and I'm sure you've
probably seen this on a podcastor something, or you heard it in
the Mind IQ course.
But you know, when you, I loveasking people this what is the
one skill, the one life skillthat has gotten you through
(19:10):
everything?
It gets you out of bed everyday, it gets you to work out, it
gets you to eat right, it getsyou to go through stressful
events.
It got you through your carwreck.
It got you through, you know,an argument with your boss.
It got you through everything.
It gets you through everythingevery day.
What is that one skill?
And people usually tell me theresult of the skill it's
(19:33):
discipline, it's mentaltoughness, it's grit, it's
consistency, it's persistence,it's they give me all these
things I'm like.
Well, how do you do that?
How do you get discipline?
They give me all these things.
I'm like well, how do you dothat?
How do you get discipline?
How do you get mental toughness?
How?
How do we do this?
Because if you don't teachsomebody how, it doesn't just
(19:54):
happen on its own right.
So what is this ultimate skill?
The ultimate skill is theability to get loud in your head
with the right words at theright moment.
That's the ultimate skill.
And now you start to use allthese problems to strengthen the
ultimate skill.
You start using your long jumpto get loud when you're having a
problem with your shoulders.
You start using your archeryshot.
(20:16):
Now you stand on one foot whenyou shoot.
Now you shoot in front of allthese people because it forces
you to get loud.
You get reps in practicing theultimate skill of the human
being, right.
So it's.
You know what's the differencebetween an elite athlete and a
not-so-elite athlete?
The elite athlete is louder intheir head, with the right words
(20:38):
at the right moments.
But how do you know what wordsand what moments?
That's where open and closedloop control systems come in.
If you don't understand open andclosed loop control systems,
you can't possibly know thewhere and the when of the mental
game equation.
So let's say that there's amajor league pitcher that's
(21:01):
having a problem throwing acutter right and evidently I've
learned through training thePhillies pitching team that to
throw a cutter you have toactually try to cut the ball in
half with your index finger.
I don't know anything aboutthat.
I go into these organizationsnot knowing what the problem is,
but those folks feed me theproblem and I give them the
(21:24):
mental game of the solution.
Right, because I understandopen and closed loop control
systems.
Open loop is a control system inyour brain for movements that
are smooth, fluid, fast.
You're not supposed to gainfeedback within that movement.
It's swinging a baseball bat,it's throwing a baseball, it is
(21:45):
shooting trap, shooting right.
If you're talking about theshooting world, it's moving
targets where you're going to goopen loop, on the trigger.
In the shooting world thatcauses a whole other problem.
But in most sports you'resupposed to keep your conscious
mind out of the actual movement,out of the actual motor program
(22:06):
.
But we have a tendency to putit in at the wrong time, so
we're using the wrong words atthe wrong moments.
Like what is the governing bodythat gets the basketball in the
hoop.
What's the governing body?
The governing body is your eyes.
It calculates the trajectory,how much power you put to the
(22:29):
ball and all those things.
But if you don't put yourconscious mind into that vision
and you put power to the ballbefore you put your eyes on the
rim, the trajectory can'tpossibly be right.
It wasn't even calculated.
It can't possibly be right.
So when you watch a basketballgame you will see when people
don't look at the rim they missway more often than they hit
(22:52):
that.
But if they look at the rimfirst, that's those really good
shooters, right.
So open and closed loop.
Open loop fast, fluid, notsupposed to gain feedback within
it.
Closed loop is slow enough youcan stop it.
Slow enough you can gainfeedback within it.
It's the precision rifletrigger press.
It's the pressure increase on atrigger.
(23:15):
It is the takeaway on your golfswing, right On the golf swing,
the takeaway.
That backswing is where yougain all the feedback.
But when you send it, when youdo the fore swing, if you put
your conscious mind into thatopen loop motor program, it
(23:37):
alters the motor program.
So you got to know what wordsand what moments to get that
portion of the metal gameequation.
You gotta know open and closedloop.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
So you, you talked about you talked about that too
that there was a time you werein Texas at the King ranch and
you were hunting and there was,you know, we, we talk about this
in different terms, whatever,maybe the yips, or just maybe
it's a it's a target panic orbuck panic, or maybe in this
sense, you know, we, we talkabout this in different terms,
whatever, maybe the yips or justmaybe it's a it's a target
panic or buck panic, or maybe inthis sense, you know it was hog
panic, but you ended up makinga decision about making a
(24:11):
controlled shot and you talkedabout that was one of those
times where you actually kind oftalked through this and took it
to that other level.
If you wouldn't mind, maybesharing that experience, and
then we can kind of key in onthe idea of, like, some of the
things that you're talking about.
Everyone has a differentprocess, but whether you're
shooting with, you know, a rifle, uh, you're clicking that
safety off, you're making thatdecision and you're going to
(24:32):
stick with it.
And you know, maybe we can tiein visual proprioception in that
too and how that you knowoccurs.
But you know how was thatmoment for you and was that the
first time that you kind oftalked through a shot and
because it seemed like it in theinterview that.
But I was curious when thatfirst time was that you applied
it in your life and how thatmade an impact moving there
forward.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
It was the first time that I was aware of it, cause
I'd made a just a few controlledshots of my life before that
time.
But because I didn't know whatI said and when I said it, it
was a mystery, right I finally Icontrolled my shot, but I don't
know how I did it.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
so they're blueprinted right yeah, you.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Just you can't blueprint it.
So then off you go and yournext one's going to be a mystery
as well.
So that one shot in 2008, when,that know, I was missing so
many shots on that hunt and Iwas not getting through my
clicker, which was my you know,it's a mechanoreceptive trigger
and I wasn't getting through it.
And everybody's making fun ofme.
(25:35):
I'm like gosh, what is theproblem?
And not knowing any of thesethings that I know, now you know
this is 2008.
At that time I'd been a sniperfor five years, right, and I'm
supposed to be able to controlmy stuff in high stress, but
then I would go in my bowhunting and completely crap the
bed, right.
(25:55):
So it was.
It scared me to death in thetactical world and was just
extremely frustrating in thehunting world.
So this one time I'd missed somany shots on this hunt, I got
pissed off and I just went tothis feeder by myself.
I tucked myself back in thebrush.
Feeder goes off.
Here comes the hog.
He's 50 yards out.
(26:16):
I'm like okay, turner, thistime, this time you got to do it
right.
Like, okay, got it.
Here comes the hog, right andhe turns broadside at 20 yards.
I didn't say anything else, Ijust drew my bow back and I had
the same anxiety, the samefeeling of weakness, the same
knowledge that I wasn't going toget through my clicker.
It was another crap show.
(26:37):
Like so many times before onthis hunt, I'm like man.
But this one time I had allthese feelings as I drew back
and I got the full draw on thishog.
He's 20 yards away, has no ideathat I'm there, and he's for
some reason I guess maybebecause I made that decision
(26:57):
when he was 50 yards out thatI'm going to do it right this
time.
I had all these bad feelingsand I'm like I'm not doing this
again.
This is Texas.
There's hogs all over the place.
It doesn't matter whether I getthis hog or not.
I've got to control myself onthis shot.
So I let that shot down and Igathered myself and I said I'm
(27:24):
shooting this shot perfectly orI'm not shooting it at all.
And that was the first timethat I got loud in my head with
the right words at the rightmoments, and previously I talked
about this is the first timethat I made a decision, but
really it's the first time thatI got loud enough to override
all the thoughts of, oh, I don'tthink I'm going to get through
(27:46):
my clicker.
That has no instruction, thathas no strategy, that is a
thought.
Thoughts can't solve problems,right?
So I said to myself, before Idrew my bow back, I said I'm
going to shoot this shotperfectly or I'm not going to
shoot it at all.
I picked my bow up and Istarted to draw my bow back and
it all started to slip awayagain, right, just like it
always did.
It all started, oh gosh, right.
And I said, nope, I'm going todo this right.
(28:07):
And I got my bow to full draw.
I got my aim.
And then I'm thinking I've gotto pull through my clicker.
It was no longer I got to getthe hog, it was I got to get
through my clicker.
And so to do that, I had toscream inside my head.
I'm like, keep pulling, keeppulling, keep pulling, keep
pulling, click, boom.
(28:28):
I shot that shot.
The clicker went off.
I shot the shot, I smoked thehog.
I'm like, oh, that was, Ifinally did it.
I'm like, oh, that was, Ifinally did it.
But I never blueprinted it.
So I went years, I went to 2014.
All those years, I killed a lotof critters in those years
because I could at least getmyself to the aim.
(28:48):
But I still could not getmyself through whatever
mechanoreceptor trigger release.
Whatever I was shooting at thetime.
I shoot lots of bows every day,I've got lots of different
techniques.
But, uh, 2014, december 14th2014, I shot a big old blacktail
buck in here in washington andI did not control my shot.
(29:09):
I smoked him, but I didn'tcontrol my shot and I'm, you
know, by this time, I this is2014 between 2009 and 2012, I
was the lead firearms instructorfor Washington State.
I was, I was the guy.
I mean, everybody had to comethrough me and my team for
firearm destruction, every lawenforcement officer in the state
(29:30):
, and you know, I had my stuffsquared away pretty good.
We built an amazing program ofcontrol and we got people in
control and you know we got somany thank yous of people that
we saved their life.
You know we say we did.
They saved their own life.
But they heard our voices,right, they heard the voices of
(29:52):
the firearms instructors duringtheir gunfight.
How powerful is that?
Right, it was them getting loud, but it just happened to be our
voices, which was cool, right?
So what a report to get back.
But December 14, 2014,.
I shoot this big buck and I didnot control myself again and I
(30:14):
sat in that tree stand like whatwas it about that one shot in
2008?
And I had done it again in 2010on a bull elk in New Mexico.
There was two shots.
They were identical because Isaid the same things at the same
moments, but I neverblueprinted it until December
14th 2014.
When I shot that buck, I was sofrustrated.
(30:37):
I smoked him, I mean, I hardshot him.
But I sat there and it got dark.
While I was in the tree stand,it was pouring rain.
I just sat there.
I got to figure this out.
So I went back to that one shotin 2008 and the one shot in
2010.
And I figured out what it was.
What did I say and when did Isay it.
And I was able to blueprintthose things, not knowing even
(30:59):
then that the skill that I waschasing was the ability to get
loud in my head with the rightwords at the right moments,
right.
So that day I made the vow tomyself I will never shoot
another uncontrolled shot on agame animal, or ever.
If it's a precision environment, I'm shooting with control, no
matter what, and that became mymantra no matter what.
(31:21):
I'm doing it this way, nomatter what happens.
364 days later is when I got inmy hostage rescue shooting.
Thank God that I figured thisstuff out before I actually got
in an event.
(31:46):
What would have happened between2003 and 2015, or that day in
2014?
I know what would have happened.
I would have yanked the triggerand, who knows, it may have
been good, it may not have beengood, but as a sniper tasked
with the taking of a life tosave a life, that can't even be
(32:09):
an option, right?
I mean, in bow hunting, yeah,you get some, you don't get some
, but as long as you controlledeverything that you could, then
you've done your job.
But most hunters out there andeven most law enforcement
officers out there and militaryunits out there, they're not
controlling everything that theycan, and that is sad.
(32:30):
There's still gunfights wherethere's 40 rounds fired and
nobody hits anybody.
Rounds fired and nobody hitsanybody.
There's science behind that.
The code has been cracked.
So let's get together and let'sfigure this out together.
So it's been one hell of ajourney.
So now I can say I mean, I knowhow I'm going to shoot my next
(32:57):
bull elk 10 years from now.
I know how the shot's going togo.
I don't know where it's goingto go, but I know that I mean
when I do my job it's probablygoing in the middle, but it's
not a mystery anymore.
And that's what I'm trying toget to people.
I'm trying to get you todemystify how you do what you do
, be that speaking engagements,be that basketball baseball
speaking engagements, be thatbasketball baseball, any sport
(33:19):
shooting rifles, pistols,archery right, if you're using a
firearm to save your life orthe life of another, you might
want this information so Well, Imean it's super valuable.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
I've I've taught so many different people in as far
as, like rifle hunting and youknow, starting obviously on a
target and there is, so I seethat idea too that, like your
body doesn't want to deal withan explosion, right, and how
everyone's kind of flinching,and you know so many people are
pulling the trigger, even witharchery, right, you know,
slamming that trigger and it'sit's you have to like try to
figure out how to talk to them.
And now I feel like it's easy,I can just send them to take
(34:03):
your course.
It saves a lot of time becauseI don't have all the verbiage
and the science to be able todownload onto them.
But, uh, you know, taking boththe shot IQ and the mind IQ
course, uh, you know, just dropthe just finished the mind IQ
today, you know, and seeing howthat can work on many different
levels, not just in the outdoorenvironment.
But for me, I've worked with alot of different people and try
(34:25):
to talk to them about, you know,being surprised when the rifle
goes off, and breathing andsaying things, and I never knew
and I couldn't really fullyblueprint it I could talk about
like what I would do.
Or I could go and see someoneand how they would sit in a
blind and be like, oh okay,you're doing this technically
wrong.
But then there that idea ofbuck fever and how everyone has
to have their own mental game at.
(34:46):
You know, full acuity andknowing what to do and being
able to blueprint something forsuccess.
And if you don't have thatalready and you haven't been
trained that it, everything cango out the window.
You know, even you can have allthe best preparations and, like
you said too, you can controlwhat you can control, like in a
hunting environment.
That doesn't mean that ananimal is going to jump at the
last second or something's goingto happen.
(35:06):
Or the wind, you know, catchesand picks up and moves the arrow
.
This much further.
Whatever could happen, there'sso many unknowns.
Uh, you know there could be abad primer or something.
Uh, you know there could be abad primer or something.
Anything could.
You know someone didn't.
You know, hand or load it theright way it's factory load,
whatever it could be, and youknow your shot might not be as
perfect as the last one.
So I found that there's so muchbenefit, uh, in the outdoor
(35:28):
space, you know and a lot oflisteners in that too.
But I think the application tooof you know I think Rogan
mentioned it too and when, whenyou were on there is saying, hey
, there's a lot of high stressand applications to this.
And that's where I was kind ofcurious of that idea of when you
went from you know you had thecourse as far as archery and
then you know long rifle andthen pistol, and obviously
(35:50):
you've done a lot of trainingand coaching you know with
people and instructing.
But when did you kind of makethat shift where you started to
move it into, uh, outside venues, outside of the outdoor world,
right, or you know, maybe in themilitary and you know police
training kind of Avenue?
When did you start to take thatand maybe develop that mind IQ
course and, uh, what did thatlook like then?
(36:12):
And that application of youknow moving out into all these
different avenues of thought,application of you know moving
out into all these differentavenues of thought.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
It was, you know, when we got on the.
Joe Rogan bought my onlinecourse back in 2016.
He was one of the first peopleto take it and he took it and
then he would talk about it onhis podcast.
I mean, I think he talked aboutme and the Shot IQ program on
like 11 different podcasts withdifferent people and that led to
(36:44):
other folks, you know, gettinghaving me come down and then now
I'm shooting bows with JoeRogan in the backyard and then I
got on the podcast and once youknow that podcast goes out to
so many people, that's when Istarted to get flooded with all
this stuff Because, like I said,when you get on the Rogan
podcast and Joe Rogan says, well, hey, this is applicable to
(37:08):
damn near everything in life,and you're like, yep, yep, I
like what you're saying, joe,but I don't necessarily.
At that time this is February of23, I did not have the words, I
didn't have it yet, and I'mlike man, joe, I love what
you're saying.
Right now You're helping me outhere, but I did not have the
(37:28):
words.
So I worked with some verysmart people and started to
figure out the application tothe rest of life and that led me
to the ultimate skill of thehuman being.
And once you get down to thebase problem, just like in
shooting, your subconscious mindwill not allow you to cause
your body impact as a surprise.
(37:49):
Once we figured out the coreproblem, now we've got a core
solution to that.
But, just like in the MindIQstuff, the application to this
for life it's too broad.
Right, it's too broad.
I mean I had people I hadprofessional bowlers calling me
PGA pros, calling me NBA folks,nfl kickers.
(38:13):
I had all these people callingme and wanting to know how to
apply what we do at Shot IQ totheir specific problem.
Had people with anxiety issues,all kinds of like.
Look, I'm not a doctor, right,I've just figured some stuff out
, a practical end, and it was Iwas training Andrew Huberman and
(38:37):
which was fascinating for mebecause he's such a smart dude,
you know, neuroscientist and allthis stuff and I made a
statement that actually kind ofpissed him off a little bit and
I said look man.
I said I'm not as smart as youare.
He said I'm going to stop youright there.
He said I don't want to everhear that out of your mouth
again.
I'm like, okay, roger, thatRight he goes.
(38:59):
You just look at things from adifferent lens.
I look at things from aclinical lens.
You look at things from apractical lens.
It's not that you know howsmart we are or anything like
that.
It's what are your experiencesand how clear is your lens.
Like my lens got polished.
(39:20):
It is extremely clear on how toapply this stuff to literally
everything.
It changes your approach toliterally everything when you
understand thoughts aren'tthinking.
When you understand the mentalgame equation, when you
understand open and closed loopcontrol systems and ultimately,
you know the skill that you'rechasing, the ability to get loud
(39:41):
in your head with the rightwords at the right moment.
So that's all you're doing inlife now is figuring out the
problem.
What's the mental game of it?
Where do I need my consciousmind?
When do I need it?
There, and the how is alwaysspeech right is always speech
(40:04):
right.
So it's been this journey,since I've been on this and I
have these key players in mylife that just say one little
thing, like Ben Mayer inAustralia oh yeah, turner,
thoughts aren't thinking.
I mean it was so funny toexplain the whole mind, iq and
the mental game and all thisstuff.
I mean we're sitting in thislittle house in New Zealand, it
was awesome, and I explain allthis stuff.
I'm very proud and I care aboutwhat Ben thinks about my whole
(40:27):
shtick here and he says, oh yeah, turner, thoughts aren't
thinking.
I'm like what the F did youjust say to me.
He's like, well, of course,thoughts aren't thinking.
I'm like what, what are youtalking about?
So that was just.
You know that, just theselittle things that just blow it
up.
And so now this practical lensthat we have is very clear and
(40:52):
it's helping a lot of people ina lot of situations, because
it's literally how you do whatyou do.
It changes coaching forever,like when I trained the
Philadelphia Phillies, thepitching staff there.
I asked them because I found outthat the coaches take pride in
their mound visits right, thisis the coach's chance to go out
(41:15):
and fix their picture at theirmoment of truth.
And I just asked all thecoaches.
I mean I'm sitting there with40 major league all the top
roster folks and 10 pitchingcoaches and six mental
performance coaches and allthese people in this little tiny
room and I said who are mycoaches?
And these 10 dudes raised theirhand.
I said what's a mound visitsound like for you?
(41:36):
And it was silence, right.
And then one of them finallypiped up and said well, I'd like
to ask them how they're feeling.
I'm like, oh great, what dothey tell you?
He said well, sometimes theysay they're feeling good and
sometimes they say they'refeeling bad.
I said that is a worthlessconversation.
And here's the problem.
(41:59):
I look at the pictures.
That said you guys don't knowhow you do what you do.
Can any of you explain to meright now what you say and when
you say it in your pitch?
One dude said that he could andhe just happens to be one of
the best in the world Super calmdude, but he was able to tell
me what he says and when he saysit.
Calm dude, but he was able totell me what he says and when he
(42:21):
says it.
But has he ever relayed that tothe coach?
But this particular pitcherdoesn't take very many mound
visits.
He doesn't need very many moundvisits where others?
Because they don't know whatthey do, how they do what they
do and the coaches have neverasked that question a mound
visit is pretty worthless.
Asked that question, a moundvisit is pretty worthless.
(42:42):
But now, if you know how they dowhat they do, you know what
this particular pitcher says andwhen they say it, and you've
manipulated that because youunderstand open and close of
control systems, now you canblueprint how you do what you do
.
And so the mound visit is hey,man, are you saying coil when
you lift your leg?
Oh, man, coach, I forgot.
Okay, let's get back to theblueprint, right?
(43:05):
So now you have this base thatyou can always go back to, so
that you don't have good daysand bad days anymore.
You just do what you do, right.
So and that can be said forarchery, pistols, rifles, any
sport, anything that you dounderstanding thoughts aren't
thinking, the mental game,equation, the ultimate skill,
(43:27):
the human being, all thesethings.
It's just fascinating.
It simplifies life.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
Man, it's it.
I love the application that youtalk about in all these
different avenues.
I think you need to come visitthe Houston Astros just you know
personally, I'd appreciate that.
I'll make some calls.
I know a few guys over there,you know, let's, let's get you
over there too.
We can't just have it be thePhillies, although my wife's
like no.
Phillies are good too.
We.
She's from that area, so, uh,we, we follow them too.
(43:57):
So when I heard you coachingthem, I was like, okay, all
right, you know, we got.
We got one of the teams, aslong as you don't go to like the
, the yankees or anything okay,okay but no, but that's um it.
It's amazing and you know youtalk about too, like the idea of
like when you say things andwhat, because you can say things
and it can be in the wrong time, because if you, if you allow
the, that space for the thoughtsto come in and that's where I
(44:21):
love the idea of like each oneof these applications to looking
at the blueprint of whateverthe action that is and figuring
out when to say what.
And you know the idea too, likeI was.
Just I was really inspiredyesterday, so I went out and got
the, my bow and arrow in thebackyard and as you and I talked
, I kind of started the archeryjourney recently and I've
something I've always beenfascinated with and went into a
(44:44):
archery country in Austin and,you know, kind of getting set up
and, of course, I found outthat I was left eye dominant.
So, okay, now switch hands,whole new process.
But it was great because I wasstarting at zero already and as
far as like, okay, I'm going tocome into this fresh.
You know, didn't have any badhabits developed at the time,
(45:04):
but I was working on things andin my backyard I've got, you
know, a good backdrop, but I was.
I was worried about what if Imissed the target, you know,
what if I go through the fence?
And just in my own head, aboutall the what ifs in my life.
I do that because I like tofigure out all the things that I
can, you know, control right,what if this happens?
I'll do this.
What if, then?
And I sat there and I was, youknow, like I said freshly, uh,
(45:25):
you know, inspired by goingthrough the course again and and
really got in there and I wastalking to myself about the
right time and I was rememberingyou, uh, chatting with Rogan
about your process of whenyou're pulling back, and you
know, I'm going to shoot theshot, no matter what, and shoot
with control, and the idea of,you know, pulling back and not
hitting the trigger, and all thethings that I was in my head
(45:45):
about.
And when I just sat there and Iwent through those motions and
said my own words, like, okay,here I go, I'm like I'm ready,
I'm ready, I'm ready.
Whatever it is, everyone canhave their own verbal mantra and
but I, I then I'm like hittingthe target right where I want to
and I'm like, damn, that is, Ineed to apply this not just in
(46:06):
the archery world, because Istarted like sweating, because I
was like I was worried aboutmissing the shot.
I don't want to hit it throughmy neighbor's fence, even though
I have a backdrop.
You know just all the what ifsand I realized that how much
fear can be an overriding thingfor so many people.
And it doesn't matter what.
It is public speaking.
You host all these events andget up there and talk in front
(46:28):
of hundreds or, you know,thousands of people.
I used to be a touring artistand I'd get nervous before every
single time.
Like sometimes I'd go and likethrow up, I got so nervous and I
never knew to talk to myselfabout that and walking myself
through those stages and Icouldn't tell you what it was.
But something switched alongthe way 10, 15 years ago.
(46:49):
I still get a little nervous,you know just okay, especially
if I'm dealing with thetechnical aspect of video or
audio.
I don't want to mess somethingup, right, but even in that
setup okay, george, you're goingto plug this here, you're going
to check this Everything's outof my control.
Outside of that and theapplication of those two things
it's seriously changed my life,joel, the last like couple
(47:10):
months that I've, you know, beentaking your course and studying
and it's something that I'vebeen able to apply it into a lot
of realms.
So I highly encourage otherpeople to go check it out.
And, you know, while we're onthe subject here, like, where
can people go and find out moreas far as, uh, you know your
programs, where can they sign upfor this?
And, you know, follow you tolearn more about this journey,
(47:30):
cause I'm sure a lot oflisteners right now are ready to
make that step.
I'm going to put in the shownotes below, but just, you know,
verbally, why don't you tell us, uh, you know the best places
to go ahead and follow along?
Speaker 1 (47:39):
So it's uh, it's shot IQcom If you're looking for
online courses in shooting andmind IQcom.
If you're looking for courseand online course in just about
everything in life, uh, if youwant to know the story of it all
, it's Turnerermodelcom.
And you can get both Shot IQand Mind IQ through
turnermodelcom.
(48:00):
But, like if you ever wanted tobook any speaking engagements
or something, that's all throughturnermodelcom and, uh, it kind
of tells the story of of me andand the whole journey that
we've been on at turnermodelcom.
So, um, that's how you getahold of me.
You can DM me on Instagram.
It's Joel Turner, actual.
(48:20):
And yeah, I talk with people ona very regular basis.
You know, I get either thankyous or they're concerned about
a certain thing and I walk themthrough their individual
problems.
But you know one thing for yourlisteners, even if they don't
take the course or whatever, itis one of the best skills that I
(48:42):
could ever give them and thishas been an evolution.
It started out this way, but itwas lost somewhere in the
middle and now it's become theforefront of my instruction and
that is commentary skillbuilding.
So, if you're shooting anarchery shot, it's speaking out
(49:06):
loud while you shoot the shot,because when you do that, it
completely cuts out all the crap.
Like you would not say, okay,I'm drawing back and aiming.
Okay, I got the full draw, Igot my anchor, all that's good.
Okay, got it, man, I hope thisarrow doesn't go through my
(49:26):
neighbor's fence.
You wouldn't say that, right,because in commentary skill
building it might be shooting,it might be basketball, it might
be who knows right, you'retalking out loud through your
process and that cuts out allthe crap.
Now what do you say?
Don't search for words, justspeak like you are teaching
(49:48):
somebody else, because that willgive you the words.
Teach somebody very specificallyhow you do what you do, and
it's fascinating for you toactually figure out what to say
and when to say it.
You can't go internal with it.
Like when I had that kid I callhim a kid, that recruit in 2003
(50:16):
bouncing bullets off the floor,I talked to him out loud and
got him in control of histrigger.
Then I had him say it out loudso that I, as the instructor,
could tell exactly what is goingthrough his conscious mind.
And I was able to manipulatethat because I understood open
and closed-loop control systems.
Well, now that's to the nthdegree, because now it's I can
(50:38):
really manipulate what you sayand when you say it.
And but if you, even if youdon't take the courses,
understand how you do what youdo, talk out loud during your
skill, keep it external untilthe conversation becomes easy.
When you know what you're goingto say and when you're going to
say it, then you can turn itinternal.
(50:59):
I just you know, I just did apodcast with somebody yesterday
and he was saying, man, and heknows all this stuff, I work
with this guy all the time.
But he said, man, on critters,this year I've shot seven deer
and I've shot you know eightarrows, seven deer, but I didn't
control five of those shots.
(51:22):
And I'm like, when was the lasttime you did any commentary
shooting?
He's like, oh, I haven't donethat for a while, right, so he
was in this limbo land becausehis conversation was not yet
easy.
I know what I'm going to say 20years from now.
That's very powerful If you'reyou know whatever you're doing
(51:44):
makes you a lot of money orwhatever it is to understand how
you do what you do.
It's fascinating to be able tothen relay that information to
others that are coming up inthat sport or whatever that
skill is that you're looking for.
Speaker 2 (51:56):
Well, and you, you talked about this too and I
remember I think it was on MarkKenyon's podcast where here's
this guy who's an amazing hunter, has had so much skill, and
then at some point in time somethings changed and he reverted
back to other ways that didn'twork and he ended up having, I
think he came out to you and youguys like trained, and you know
(52:18):
, he kind of got himself back inand got reminded of the process
.
And that's the thing too, Ithink people, you find out what
works and sometimes you you losetrack of it or you you lose
consciousness of that idea, ofthat process, of that blueprint,
and I always think it's areally good retraining tool.
I had it happen yesterday, youknow.
I was like shaking, like I'mjust worried about the shot,
(52:39):
anxiety, and I was like, okay,okay, what did I just learn
today?
Go back to the principles ofwhat works.
And then I was able to reset,but you don't.
I think it.
It takes a lot of practice inthe discipline to remind
yourself of that and to you know, practice that, like you said,
the conscious, you know thoughtsand speaking and having that
(53:00):
commentary is that we justforget sometimes what, what's
happening, because we think, oh,I've done this before and if
you're not conscious about it,you're not going to have this
exact results.
And the results are trying tobe as precise as possible in
whatever it is you're doing,right?
Speaker 1 (53:14):
So it's not natural.
It's not natural for you tocontrol an archery shot, to
control an explosion, tooverride your central nervous
system is not natural.
That's not what we're, that'snot how we're built.
This is a different skill thatwe're now really honing in on.
But it's not natural for you toshoot a basketball the same way
(53:39):
, shoot a free throw the sameway every time, because your
mind's like yeah, I got it, Igot it, I got it, let's just do
it right, let's do it.
Well, there's a portion of thatthat you want to just do it,
but there's other portions of itthat you can actually gain
feedback and that your mind getsbored with that.
It's like let's move on.
You look at the adult learningmodel.
(53:59):
The first stage is cognitive.
It's the cognitive portionwhere you actually talk yourself
through things, but it's verychoppy.
Then we practice with the goalof becoming automatic.
That's where your mind isalways pushing you towards is
automaticity.
I just want to do this.
That's where your mind isalways pushing you towards is
automaticity.
I just want to do this, let'sget this done.
(54:21):
If it's a high stress event, itwants to just get it over with
Results.
Be damned, let's just get itover with, right.
So it's not that we forget, it'sthat your mind is constantly
pushing you past it and you'realways having to come back to
the cognitive stage of learning.
Your mind does not like that,because that was years ago.
(54:43):
Why are we doing this this way,right?
So that's what you have torealize and be disciplined.
How do you be disciplined?
You get loud with the rightwords at the right moments,
because when you just you knowyou're yacking away with your
friends, then you draw your bowback and you're like oh, and you
yank the trigger like ooh, Iforgot everything on that one.
(55:05):
It's not that, you know, like inMark's case, he's a very
successful hunter, but at somepoint he reverted to efficiency,
right, and that's the moment hestopped talking.
When you look back and maybeyou're really good at a skill
and then all of a sudden you'renot that good anymore, it's
(55:28):
usually in some type of shootingskill, because, like basketball
, you don't get worse.
The more you do it In shooting.
The more you do it, the worseyou get, because the more
efficient you get.
So there's always this cliffwhere people are really good
about six months into it andthen they start punching the
trigger just before the pin getson the target right and then it
(55:52):
just snowballs into this bigthing.
That's when our game, let's useour shot to practice the
ultimate skill of the humanbeing the ability to get loud in
(56:12):
your head with the right wordsat the right moments.
Speaker 2 (56:15):
Love it.
And now I'd have to make surewe mention too when you were
talking about legacy and wantedto pick up that bow from your
dad.
You know your son, bode, hasbeen a multiple time world
champion, so I just I'd love tohear if you have anything you'd
like to say about, you know, theidea of him picking this up at
a young age and being able todevelop into one of the world's
(56:39):
best archers and maybe talk alittle bit about that experience
, and I'm sure that's got to bea proud moment for a dad, right,
I'm so proud of that kid andand he you know, he won the
Vegas shoe, which is the biggestindoor archer shoot in the
world, as a pro at 15 to standup there with all the best in
the world and to outshoot them.
Speaker 1 (57:00):
And now he regularly outshoots them at.
He's 17 years old now.
And but thank goodness, I wasworking.
He was born in 07.
And so I had from 03 to 07 towork on shot IQ stuff.
And even in 07, I mean that wasbefore the shot on the hog, so
(57:21):
I wasn't even squared awaymyself, but I knew enough to
where.
You know, bodie loved shooting abow.
I mean I had a.
At two weeks old I have in afront pack I'm slinging arrows
right, so he's seen thousands ofarrows go down range.
But at two and a half he's ableto shoot balloons out of the
air with his little suction cuparrows, you know.
And at three I bought him hisfirst compound and a release aid
(57:45):
.
And what did he do the firsttime he shot?
It?
Punched the crap out of thetrigger, because that's what the
human mind does, right.
And at three years old he'dshot some .22s and stuff as well
.
But what are you going to tella three-year-old that doesn't
have a developed mind yet youknow?
Oh no, you need to use closedloop for this.
No, you can't tell him any ofthat stuff, that's just right.
(58:07):
So at three years old, I didn'tgive Bodhi an option.
I gave him a tension-activatedrelease.
One of the greatest inventionsthat's ever come to the archer
world is a tension activatedrelease.
It's got a safety on it and ifyou don't pull, it doesn't go
off right.
So how that works is you pushthe safety in while you hook it
(58:30):
on your D-loop, push the safetyin, draw the bow back Once
you've aimed, then you take thesafety off and then you just
pull, you add back tension to itand you set the release to
actually fire.
You know, maybe four or fivepounds over your holding weight,
and it just forces people'sminds to separate from the aim,
(58:54):
which is number one.
And because you're doing aphysical action that requires
conscious thought, it breaks youaway from the aim.
It takes your consciousness outof the aim, puts it in the
release and then it forces youto actually do a big movement.
That's easy to talk yourselfthrough.
And so for kids, I can't standwatching kids shoot, punching
(59:18):
the trigger.
It's like you don't need to godown that path.
Parents, please get your kidattention activated release.
Call me, I'll give youinstruction.
Watch the Shot IQ onlinecourse.
It will show you how to setthis release up and then, once
they mature and they understandhow they do what they do, then
(59:39):
you can put them into a moreaccurate release system.
It's not the most accuraterelease, but it is the easiest
to control because of theattributes that it has.
So I don't put adults in those,because adults have enough life
experience.
They're just not loud enoughright With the right words in
the right moments.
Once I give them that, there'sno reason for adults to have to
(01:00:01):
shoot attention-activatedrelease, unless they obviously
choose to.
But if you shootattention-activated release as
an adult, you are not gettingreps in the ultimate skill and
you'll be stuck in that releasefor the rest of your life, which
is not the most accurate system.
So for young minds absolutelyquit giving them index finger
(01:00:22):
triggers and thumb buttons,because that's what dad or mom
shoots.
Get them attention activatorrelease.
That's what I do with Bodhi atthree years
old.
By six years old you could havea hundred different releases on
the table and Bodhi would runevery one of them because that's
how you do it.
I forced him into a closed loopcontrol system.
So, and now you know he hastaken this to the nth degree.
(01:00:44):
He knows all the technicalities, very technical shooter, like
uphill, downhill, wind, all thestuff.
So he's got the full packagenow he's a phenomenal shot with
a rifle and he just utilizesthis system every single shot
and then and he's been in thehighest stress shoot offs that
there are, them every singleshot and then, and he's been in
the highest stress shoot-offsthat there are.
(01:01:04):
I mean you don't get higherstress than what Bodie has been
in and and been successful inand also had little problems
within those shoot-offs.
But because he has this toolbox, he knows what words and when
(01:01:25):
to use them, his toolbox is verydeep, right and he is not
afraid to reach into thattoolbox if he encounters a
problem within a shot in a highstress event.
So yeah, very proud of thatyoung man.
Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
Well, that kind of leads me to the next question.
As far as you know, the idea oflegacy and what you're doing is
not only just changing theability and of success in the
outdoor space, obviously, withmind, iq and developing that,
this is applicable all acrossthe board.
And I was curious as far as youknow, is this something that you
(01:01:53):
I'm sure you can see theeffects of your instruction?
Uh, you hear the people callingyou.
You know you have folks likeRogan who talk about it
regularly still, and otherpeople who say, oh yeah, yeah,
yeah, you hear the peoplecalling you.
You know you have folks likeRogan who talk about it
regularly still and other peoplewho say, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah,
you know there's folks who arelearning from Shot IQ, mind IQ,
applying it and becoming betterversions of themselves or
(01:02:14):
realizing their potential.
However, you want to maybe saythat, but I was curious about
the idea of like what it is thatyou hope to instill in others
and leave behind, and how thiswork is something that you'd
like to be remembered and howthat ties into your thoughts on
legacy, and is that somethingthat you think about kind of on
a day to day basis?
Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
I think about it every day.
I want to be as positivelyimpactful on as many people as
possible.
Impactful on as many people aspossible.
I think you're you know, thejudge of your character is how
many people speak nicely aboutyou at your funeral.
And I have impacted a lot ofpeople and I want to impact
(01:02:53):
millions more, because,especially in archery you know
it gets back to archery because,I mean, my life revolves around
archery, because archery is thetippy top of human
concentration and I get peoplethat call me that say I think
I'm going to give up shooting mybow.
(01:03:14):
I get this a lot and they'relike, can you help me?
Because they're so frustratedbecause archery help me, because
they're so frustrated becausearchery is something.
It's more of a lifestyle,really, and we love it.
Like I'm still, at 48 years old, completely infatuated with the
mystical fly of an arrow.
I shoot hundreds of arrows aday.
I love it.
(01:03:35):
I love the challenge of it.
I can't imagine not shooting mybow.
Like I mean, in 2018, I got ina fight with a guy at work and I
tore my pectoralis tendon thenext day.
I was shooting with my teethright the next day because I'm
not going to stop shooting mybow.
I mean, matthew Stutzmandoesn't even have any arms and
(01:03:57):
he shoots his bow every day,right?
So there's a way to do it, toget this mystical flight of the
arrow and people call me and say, man, I think I'm going to give
up shooting my bow.
I'm like, why would you do that?
Like, that doesn't make anysense to me.
It's something that you love todo, but right now, it's just
giving you this massivefrustration.
Can you imagine how happy youwill be when you gain control of
(01:04:22):
your shot?
Something that we areconstantly seeking as human
beings is getting better at aparticular skill.
Archery is just fairly primalfor us, right?
It's been with us for a longtime, and so to be able to
control the highestconcentration level required, it
(01:04:43):
makes the rest of your lifemuch easier and it makes for
much happier people, right?
I mean, you see people that arein massive target panic.
They're not happy, right?
And then you see somebody thatjust crushed it, right?
They're like, man, I've gotcontrol of this, or I've got
control of this portion of mylife, or whatever it is.
It's very powerful stuff tounderstand how you do what you
(01:05:09):
do.
So that's what I want to beknown for is the guy that may be
not so smart, but I'm practicaland I bring simple solutions to
very big problems right.
So that's how I want to beremembered.
Speaker 2 (01:05:26):
Well, man, I just want to thank you for sharing
your knowledge.
Some people grab it and theyhold on to things.
You are amplifying this out,changing lives by the thousands,
by the tens of thousands, likeyou said, by the millions.
You're getting out there andpeople are using this to better
themselves.
I see it on a personal leveland you know, whenever I'm
(01:05:48):
reminded of what I need to doand I'm in the right zone, it's
amazing what the results.
And you know, sometimes you gotto forget to relearn it again,
but I love what I've learned andshot IQ, obviously fresh off
mind IQ, and just I find it sovaluable.
All the listeners, make sure yougo check out the show notes
(01:06:09):
below, go check out the websiteswe mentioned.
Again, all those links will bethere.
I'll have a link to the Roganinterview as well.
I found that fascinating andyou know you can see how many
lives that this can change and II love the fact that you know
you're sharing this in suchprofound ways.
Man, I thank you so much forjoining me today and discussing
this.
It's been a real treat and I Ijust appreciate you, man, thank
(01:06:30):
you so much.
I'll turn thinking, brotherCheers.
Well, you take care of it andyou have a great afternoon.
We'll talk soon.
All right, bro, take careCheers soon.
All right, bro, take carecheers.
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