Ep. 90 w/ Ilan Rubin - Nine Inch Nails Drummer & Multi-Instrumentalist Empowers Musicians w/ His New Instructional Book, "Start Somewhere To Go Somewhere"

Send us a text

Join George Blitch as he sits down with Ilan Rubin, multi-instrumentalist who is well known as the drummer for Nine Inch Nails, Angels & Airwaves, and performing music currently under his own name.

In a candid conversation, Ilan shares how his upbringing with a musical (and supportive) family, laid the foundation for his extraordinary career. You'll learn about his unique approach to music, his early entry into the touring world, and his various experiences over the last two decades that played a part in creating his exciting new instructional drum book, "Start Somewhere to Go Somewhere," designed to inspire musicians at all levels.

Joining Nine Inch Nails at just 20 years old, Ilan found himself working alongside legendary artists like Trent Reznor, and has now been the longest sitting drummer within the band. He also plays many other instruments while performing with NIN, a talent he has showcases on recordings of his own musical projects The New Regime, and most recently w/ releases under his own name.

Fun Facts: Ilan is actually the youngest person to ever be inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and even holds a Guinness World Record for being the youngest to ever perform at Woodstock at age 11!

These experiences not only shaped his musical journey but also reinforced the value of learning from others and giving back to the music community. Ilan's insights into mentorship emphasize the importance of growth through shared experiences and the impact of fostering a supportive environment for aspiring musicians. Which brings us to a primary focus in this discussion…
 
Ilan's latest endeavor, his first instructional drum book, "Start Somewhere to Go Somewhere," serves as a comprehensive guide for drummers seeking to expand their skills through simplified techniques. The book emphasizes the transformative power of simplicity in drumming, encouraging musicians to build complex patterns from basic rudiments. Ilan's personal journey with open-handed drumming is also explored, offering drummers innovative ways to enhance their coordination and creativity. The episode delves into the challenges and triumphs of bringing this book to life, underscoring Ilan's dedication to mentoring the accompany the 40+ chapters, set over 4 different sections.

As we conclude this episode, Ilan reflects on the enduring legacy of music and its impact on future generations. The conversation touches on the shifting nature of legacy in the digital age, where recorded performances can resonate with audiences worldwide. Ilan's passion for music and his desire to leave a meaningful imprint on the world are evident throughout the episode, offering listeners a profound perspective on the timeless power of music.

Join us in this enlightening episode as Ilan Rubin opens up about his journey, the lessons he's learned, and his vision for the future of music. Whether you're an aspiring musician or a seasoned enthusiast, Ilan's story is sure to inspire and motivate you to pursue your dreams with unwavering determination, and his new book can certainly help forge that path forward.

Order your copy of “Start Somewhere To Go Somewhere”
Follow Ilan on IG
Follow Ilan in YouTube

Learn more about George Blitch at:
SonofaBlitch.com
Podcast.SonofaBlitch.com

Today I had a phenomenalconversation with a wonderful
musician by the name of AlonRubin.
You guys might know him as thedrummer for Nine Inch Nails,
angels and Airwaves.
He's also been the drummerbefore with Paramore, played
with Beck, danny Elfman, noEffects, lost Prophets, freak of

(00:35):
Nature so many differentamazing bands.
You know this guy was touringWarped Tour the band's Warped
Tour when he was in eighth grade.
We talk about him kind of hisearly years of music and how he
kind of just started continuingto progress.
You know he joined Nine InchNails at 20 years old.
He's been playing with them for16 years now and you know he

(01:00):
was actually inducted as theyoungest member ever into the
Rock and Roll Hall of Fame andhe was the youngest ever to
perform at Woodstock holds aGuinness Book of World Records
for that.
I think he was 11 years old,maybe 12.
Anyway, we talk a little bitabout his history in music and
kind of, you know, giving alittle bit of background to his
styles.
We talk about him being amulti-instrumentalist and
playing all sorts of differentthings, you know, and we talk
about how as a drummer.

(01:21):
He learned to play by ear andthen kind of built from there
and was reading books andwatching videos and this kind of
came full circle, because nowtoday he's releasing his very
first drum instrumental orinstructional book I should say,
called Start Somewhere, to GoSomewhere how to Creatively
Expand on Simplicity.
And this is put togetherthrough Hudson Music, which has

(01:43):
done so many different amazingbooks for those who are, uh, you
know, familiar as takinglessons and such and reading
music from these books andlearning things.
But what's really neat too andit's different than, uh, I grew
up where now you're going in andyou're getting like this ebook
from Hudson music and there's alittle play button there so you
can actually hit that playbutton and you can hear him, uh,

(02:04):
elon, performing thatparticular section of the book.
He has like 40 different thingsthat are recorded, or maybe even
more, uh, throughout foursections.
One's just kind of like awarmup on the practice pad, some
of the things he does beforethese shows and then brings it
onto the kit and really they'relike a lot of basic, uh, basic
blocks.
I think you can build fromright, starting out simple and
then how you can take this thingon from the practice pad into

(02:27):
doing a fill, and then you hearit and it's like, oh, that's how
you can incorporate this withthe Toms and this fill, and so
it's just a really cool book allaround.
I really, you know, love how itwas recorded.
It sounds so good.
Uh, it's very uh something thatcan, from the very beginner,
can pick this up into someonewho's kind of an expert level
and you're going to be able tolearn something.
So, you guys, if you have anyinterest in drumming, if you're

(02:48):
a drummer and you want to takethings to the next level, go
pick up a copy of StartSomewhere to Go Somewhere from
Hudson Music, alon Rubin.
Thank you so much for joiningme today.
Appreciate you sharing yourtalents and teaching other
peoples and being a mentor tothem as well as you are.
And, yeah, you guys, go checkout his YouTube page.
Check out those live drummingclips.
Man, he's got some amazingstuff from all the bands he's

(03:09):
played with and there's also alot of cool stuff about that.
He's going to be putting outlittle shorts and reels and a
little intro video to this bookthat kind of explained a little
bit further.
So do that.
Follow him on Instagram.
I'll have all the links belowin the show notes and you guys,
thanks for tuning in the podcast.
And, without further ado, hereis my interview with Elan Rubin
of Nine Inch Nails, angels andAirwaves, as well as his own

(03:35):
solo projects that he's done,new Regime, and now his own
self-titled music under his name, which singles are coming out
soon.
So make sure you go and followthose pages as well.
And thanks for tuning in, guys.
Hope you guys enjoy this one,those pages as well.
And thanks for tuning in, guys.
Hope you guys enjoy this one.
I surely did Take care.
Hey, alon, how are you doingtoday?
Man?
I'm doing well.
How are you?
Fantastic man.
You got a big week coming up.
On Friday your first book drops.

(03:55):
I'm super excited to talk aboutthat.
Start somewhere to go somewhere.
But first I want to givelisteners a little bit of
background on you know, yourexpertise level and how you got
started in this musical scene.
And if we can just kind of goback to the day you found that
drum kit and your, your dad'sdrum kit in the garage and maybe
kind of you know, walk usthrough a little bit of your
history there and we'll go intothe book in a bit.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
Sure thing.
So my dad was a drummer when hewas in middle school, high
school, and he held onto hisdrums.
Now he did the responsiblething and went to college and
got his master's in business andprovided for the family he
created.
But we had the drums in thegarage.
They were beautiful Ludwig 1968, silver Sparkles, pretty much

(04:36):
the Ginger Baker drum set, butone bass drum, and really I
don't think I would have noticedthem had my brothers not
noticed them.
First they had started playingand I'm the youngest of three,
so perhaps it was a bit ofbrotherly competition, maybe I
was just fascinated.
I mean, this is almostpre-memory, I mean I don't

(04:58):
really remember life beforebeing able to play.
But something piqued myinterest, interest and he
noticed I had a semblance ofrhythm, that I wasn't just
making noise, and he taught me alittle thing and then another
little thing, and once I kind ofunderstood the way it worked
meaning I can hear something andI can play it back then the

(05:19):
obsession truly started and itwas a matter of being able to
listen to music that my dad waspresenting to me and learning
things that I enjoyed.
And then it became the lifelongobsession that is still taking
hold of me to this day.

Speaker 1 (05:33):
Well, you started there playing with your brothers
too, didn't you?
With the Freak of Nature FONband, and that was a Danny and
Aaron right.

Speaker 2 (05:39):
Isn't that how you?

Speaker 1 (05:40):
guys started touring around, so how?

Speaker 2 (05:42):
old were you then?
That was their high school band, so I was eight or nine at the
oldest when that started nine atthe oldest, and it was an
interesting experience becausethe age difference between Aaron
and myself is eight years, sobeing a nine-year-old, and
they're seniors in high schoolbasically.

(06:02):
So that was that that.
But yeah, that seems like a alifetime or three ago.
But yeah, that that got mestarted in terms of playing live
and whatnot.
But yeah, I've probably blockedmost of it out, to be honest
with you, but good formativeyears now you also, of course,
there's.

Speaker 1 (06:21):
You have a guinness book of world records.
I don't know, maybe you havemultiple, but I know that this
one here you played.
You guys were the opening band.
Was that FON that played atWoodstock, or was it a different
group that played?

Speaker 2 (06:31):
You guys opened up 99 , right, that was it, it was
what's it called.
The band won some kind of thiswas in the very early I wouldn't
even call it streaming, butjust mp3.com, that kind of thing
and some kind of competitionwas won and that was the prize.

(06:54):
But you know, it sounds alittle more exciting than it was
, and I'm not saying it wasn'texciting at the time.
It's just you picture Woodstockas this colossal event with
these two giant main stages, andthey were opposite ends of this
giant airfield at least it'sthe way I remember it and there
was this sort of emerging artiststage in a hangar in between

(07:15):
the two.
So it was a, it was a big, bigthing at the time, and I don't I
don't want you to feel awkwardwhen I say this, but it's
something that's baffling to mewhen it gets brought up, because
I'm like, oh yeah, thathappened.
But you know, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:30):
Yeah Well, I mean, I've gone to played many
festivals myself, my band, andthere's been times like, oh, you
played that band, these bigones played.
And I'm like, yeah, we were inthat side tent over there behind
the porta potties and stuff,you know, and that's like kind
of getting your first going.
But that's really cool to likebe able to say that you played
it.
Isn't that the one where allhell broke loose later?
Yes, so you guys started all ofthat apparently.

(07:52):
Huh Apparently.

Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yeah, nothing but bad luck.

Speaker 1 (07:57):
Oh man, well, that that's.
That's pretty fun to be able to, you know, have these
experiences of playing and goingaround.
I know that you've played withso many bands since you know.
I was just kind of curious asfar as your trajectory of these
groups.
I know you obviously startedplaying with Nine Inch Nails in
2009.
I think you auditioned in 08.
And I you know, after he sawyou, I think it was like the
Reading Festival playing withanother band, what was the other

(08:18):
group that you played with?
That kind of got you in hiseyes and in his thoughts for
giving you a call when Josh left.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
Well, I'll tell you what that is a band that took a
turn for the absolute worst in asituation that ended the band
and a guy is serving manydecades in prison, and
fortunately I was long gonebefore that happened.
But the band was quite astepping stone because we were
playing before Nine Inch Nailsat Reading and Leeds in 2007.

(08:54):
And a very dear friend of minewho was teching for Nine Inch
Nails at the time recommended toTrent that he watch me play.
And you know, having knownTrent for 15 years now, I'm
shocked that he actually did it,because that band certainly
wouldn't have been his cup oftea and, quite frankly, it
wasn't mine either.
But it was a great opportunityand led to a phenomenal

(09:16):
opportunity.
And there you have it.

Speaker 1 (09:19):
Well, and then you've also played with Angels and
Airwaves, and I mean there's,the list goes on.

Speaker 2 (09:29):
You've sat in with no effects when you're doing the,
the vans warp tour, beck, dannyelfman, all these different
groups, man you played with withsome of the the top tier up
there and, I have to say, verywell researched you're, you're,
you're finding skeletons andcorners that I didn't even know
I forgot were there.
But yeah, and I joke, but yeah,I mean, warp tour was my sort
of first proper touringexperience and that was the

(09:49):
summer of eighth grade.
You know that was my that was myfirst like three weeks
consistently out.
Uh, my, my parents were with meat the time, but yeah, I was
already a touring musician bythe time I had started high
school.
So, funny enough, fastforwarding a little bit, the
second band that I was inprovided a lot of sort of life

(10:11):
lessons, and career lessons inparticular, because that was an
exciting opportunity.
It was a band that had beensigned to a major label but
dropped seven and a half monthslater.
So that dose of reality kickedin quickly and by the time I was
16, I already had my first sortof midlife crisis.
And what am I going to do?

(10:32):
I've already been playing musicfor half my life and it's not
panning out the way I thought.
But yeah, I was touring so muchthat I had to check into
homeschooling.
I mean, the thing I'm probablymost grateful for is how
supportive my parents were andare to this day, but they knew I

(10:52):
had to pursue this path, that Ihad a talent that warranted me
sort of leading a different life, but they insisted on me
getting straight A's and theywouldn't allow me to, for
example, get a GED and test outof school.
They're like we will find youan accredited school for child
actors or kids who basicallyalready are on a career path in

(11:15):
their early to mid teens.
But you're going to do it thatway or you're not going to do it
.
So they found that for me.
I did it and I was touringpretty.
I mean, things are a bit of ablur, as I've already said
numerous times, but between theages of 14 and 16, I was, I
would say, gone on the road morethan I was at home, definitely

(11:37):
between 15 and 16.
And then from there I was, Ifelt, like a seasoned veteran,
and then 17, 18 and 19, touringfairly nonstop and I joined Nine
Inch Nails at 20.
So that, as you can imagine,had a great sort of busy touring
schedule, but it was also verypiecemeal in a way.

(11:59):
So Nine Inch Nails at the timewe hadn't done this in a while,
but Nine Inch Nails at the timewould tour very consistently.
There would be a couple ofyears off, two or three years
off, and then, for example,2013-14,.
That was the last sort of I saythis in quotes, but proper
touring cycle where there weredates stretching out about a
year and a half.
Everything since then has kindof been great, but it's been

(12:24):
three weeks here, a few weeksoff, three weeks here, a few
weeks off, and then, before youknow it, you've gotten into that
hiatus period again, and thathiatus period is what led to me
being able to join Angels andAirwaves, which was a fun
opportunity and they're verydear friends of mine, but that
was a band in San Diego.

(12:45):
We had mutual friends.
Obviously everybody knows whoTom is.

Speaker 1 (12:49):
He's kind of in the news again right now.
Yes, all the drone stuff, yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:55):
So, yeah, it was a San Diego mutual friend was like
Tom needs a drummer.
Tom, this guy's from you, guysshould talk.
And then there you go.
So that happened in about 2011or 12.
And yeah, it's very strangethat, as a musician who has
pretty much based his entirelife around music, I just see

(13:16):
periods of my life in thecontext of tours and albums and
whatnot.
So I kind of see the way allthose pieces fit in terms of
what I've done, which isprobably strange, but I'm sure
it's not all that uncommon.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
Yeah, no, I mean, there's periods of my life that
I know that I can define themfrom these bands that I was into
, or even when I was touring of,like what albums we were doing,
like I, I can understand that,um, and in in that realm.
I was just kind of thinking, youknow, in this kind of a
personal question on that side,like, did you have some peers
that were maybe going through Ican't say something exactly the
same, cause they probablyweren't doing the same thing as

(13:52):
far as you know, eighth gradewarp tour, but did you have some
folks that had some kind of?
Did you have a kind of asounding board and some people
that you had around you, asidefrom your family, that you could
kind of relate to and work with?
And because it might seem likeyou're kind of out on your own
and on your boat and see, withyour experience kind of growing
up, and you know, I don't knowif musical prodigy is something

(14:14):
that you know has been thrownaround, but the idea of, like
you, being a professionalmusician at a very young age and
I was just kind of curious whatthat was like for you.

Speaker 2 (14:26):
Now, are you referring to people who may have
given me life advice or careeradvice, that sort of thing, or
just people I grew up with?

Speaker 1 (14:31):
Well, I guess like the idea of like, yeah, your
your social circle around you,if you're out there touring all
the time and you're doing thatin there may be bands that are
older than you and you know,maybe on the warp tour there may
be some younger groups andmaybe some I don't know if there
was a lot of you know moreteenage bands at that time,
age-wise.
But I was just curious did youfind kind of a peer group that
was around your age that youcould relate to, or were you

(14:53):
usually hanging out with peoplethat were older than you by just
default?

Speaker 2 (14:57):
Up until very recently, I never had a peer
group my age and that was justbecause I took to music quickly
and I don't mean this to soundawful or pretentious or whatever
you want to call it arrogant,but I didn't have any kids at
school who played music.
Well, I had already become afairly good musician and music's

(15:25):
one of those things.
I mean it's like tennis, forexample.
If you play tennis withsomebody who doesn't play well
or isn't at your level and viceversa, it's not fun for the
other person.
Sure, and music is one of thosethings People think.
You know, jamming is fun and itcan be if everyone's good and
enjoying themselves or ifeveryone's in the same place.

(15:46):
But if you have a really goodplayer here and the drummer
can't keep up or vice versa andyou have a terrible, whatever it
may be, it's just not fununless everyone is generally at
the same place.
And I didn't have that Now interms of other people along the
way.
Now that I think about it, it'sfunny because you always meet

(16:09):
the one person, or the selectfew, who have a little more
experience than you do, and thenyou kind of match their
experience and then you meet theperson who's got more
experience than you now and itkind of always goes up.
So it's funny you, for example,your local band, you're just

(16:34):
trying to get shows.
Then you start getting shows.
Then you, for example, joinanother band and this band's
actually toured before, and thenthis band's toured, but people
actually go to the shows andthen it kind of just builds and
builds and builds and itcontinues that way once you're
at the professional level,because obviously, just like
anything, there's a a hugevariety of successes out there

(16:59):
and I mean fortunately, I feellike at 20 years old I joined a
legendary band and that wasgreat and it was by far the best
thing that I had done.
But you know, the band that Iwas with before was a colossal
stepping stone for me, asidefrom the more local bands or the

(17:20):
sort of domestic touring acts,that kind of thing.
So you're always sort ofleveling up and once you get to
a certain level you kind of justmake lateral moves, I suppose.

Speaker 1 (17:31):
Well, when you're talking about like that idea of
you know I guess we'll throw aname on it like mentorship, like
were there some people who weresignificant that you could name
out, that you kind of you wereable to rise to that level of
that mentorship and work, youknow, and kind of cause I
believe in, in, in this kind ofwill tie into the book there too
, cause a lot of folks they'restarting to play by ear, whether
it's music and in drums, like Iknow that I played and then I

(17:52):
ended up going and taking somelessons and there's some drum
books and stuff that I wouldlook at and everything.
But you know, it kind of thattrajectory is a little bit
different for everybody.
But having some you knowmentors or some people you can
look up to in that space and youknow, I don't know if this was
a part of your relationship thatwas built with Tom, but I
believe that there was a timethat you and Travis Barker got
together and that he did somework.

(18:13):
I thought I read somethingsomewhere about that, but I was
curious about if there's peoplethat were you know that you
might name off, that you knowhelped you in whatever capacity
it was and maybe how you mightfeel about what it is to have a
mentor and and are you doing anymentoring now?
So I know it's a lot ofdifferent questions, so run with
it as you wish.

Speaker 2 (18:32):
Well, I I wouldn't say a mentor per se.
I mean, for example, youmentioned Travis and I can do
that one out of the way quickly.
But uh, this was even beforethis.
This was, I think, Warped Tour2000.
Okay, so this was even we haddone a week on it.
This was the summer or twobefore my first three-week tour

(18:55):
or whatnot.
But somebody who worked withBlink at the time saw me play
and was impressed that he saw an11-year-old kid playing the
drums.
Well, or at least you know wellfor an 11 year old, saw two um
adults in the crowd and put ittogether.
They were.
My parents basically said hey,um, I work with blank.
Would your son be interested intaking lessons from their

(19:17):
drummer?
He gives drum lessons and he'slocal.
So that's literally how thathappened and of course it was a
great opportunity.
He was unique in the sense thathe was a trained musician
playing in music that does notrequire training.
You know, generally pop, punk,right, and that was that.

(19:39):
But you know, Travis and Inever really had a a real kind
of buddy-buddy relationship,Because you have to think, 11,
12, 13 years old, a guy in hismid-20s, what's that
relationship going to be beyondall.
Right, here's your drum lessonfor the hour.
I mean, we got along well.
I thought he was a very niceguy and we would bump into each

(20:01):
other every few years.
And then, funny enough, I sawhim the most I had ever seen him
once I joined Angels andAirwaves Because Angels at that
time Blink had gotten backtogether either for the first or
the second time, I don't know.
It's hard to keep track of whena band breaks up that much, but
I joke, but kind of yeah yeah,Anyway so then you kind of get

(20:24):
into this odd place where, okay,both adults at this, this point
, but I've known the guy since Iwas 11 years old, so it's a
very sort of odd thing.
But that was purely nothing.
Career, that was just okay.
We're gonna read notation, I'mgonna go through rudiments,
we're gonna go through stuffwith the drum set, and that was
that.
But it was a very goodexperience.

(20:45):
Now I can't really say I hadany, any mentorship in terms of
music career stuff.
Uh, just because and I could bemisspeaking, nothing's coming
to mind right now and and thereason why I'm saying this is
because I always felt sort ofdisappointed up until nine-ish

(21:06):
nails.
Now that does.
I don't mean to sound that Iwas disappointed because, oh, I
I'm just not touring as well asI'd like and I'm a 16 year old.
That that's not what I mean,it's just I always felt like I
was.
I learned more what not to dowith the people I was playing
with, and that is just asvaluable.
It's probably what got you towhere you were.
At that point, when I finally,or when I joined nine inch nails

(21:30):
, I felt like, finally, I'm in aband with real musicians who
take this seriously and that'swhy they're so good.
Live being in a room with trentand seeing the way he conducted
rehearsals and knew that heexpected everyone to be on their
game and everyone was thereprepared and had their notebooks

(21:51):
and was figuring out.
Okay, we got to work on this,we got to fix that.
I'll get to this some othertime.
This will be prepared beforetomorrow's rehearsal.
It's just very, very regimentedand I don't mean that in a way
that feels dry.
It was just structured, is whatI'm trying to say.
It wasn't just dicking aroundfor a couple of hours and now,
why don't we get out of here?

(22:13):
That I had done for 12 years orwhatever, and I always felt that
even climbing that ladder, likeI said, you get to the kind of
next thing that's a little bitbigger and bigger and bigger.
I just felt that anybody I hadworked with who had a semblance
of success took it for grantedand had a piss poor work ethic,

(22:34):
which infuriated me personally.
I hate when people areunappreciative.
So Nine Inch Nails was,although it was by far the
biggest thing I had done.
There was a huge level ofcomfort there because there was
an expectation and anappreciation.
You know, this is the first guyit's funny the the most

(22:56):
successful gum speaking ofTrenton here, of course but the
most successful guy I'd everplayed with was the most
appreciative of my skills.
He wasn't threatened by me inany way.
A lot of people as I was growingup were threatened by me,
especially as a guy who.
Lot of people as I was growingup were threatened by me,
especially as a guy who couldplay the drums well, but could
also play guitar and bass andpiano and whatnot.
He was like okay, if you're notplaying drums, I need you to

(23:18):
play piano on this.
And that was awesome and that'sone of the things that has
remained so unique about theNine Inch Nails experience for
me is that well, yes, it'sprimarily drumming.
I love the fact that I get toget off the drums and play bass
on a few songs or piano inbetween sections of a song or

(23:39):
whatever it may be.
It's a lot of fun and thechallenge is there, but, like I
said, the appreciation inabilities as opposed to being
threatened by them.
That was the first time andit's kind of like the people who
are secure in themselves inthat way are appreciative in
others A lot of insecure peopleout there.

Speaker 1 (23:57):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, especially in bands, I mean,
especially if you'remulti-talented, they're like, oh
man, he might take my spot ifthere's.
But you had to lock down there.
Well, you know, you talk aboutplaying other instruments and
obviously you've had some solarrecords and you've kind of had
it under two different names.
You had the new regime and thenyou had it under your own name
too and I was, you know, want todive into that, because you

(24:18):
play all the instruments and onon all these tracks and I'm not
sure if you had any guests comein for anything.
But I mean, it's been yourstuff there that you've written
and I was curious is thissomething that you would do in
your own home studio?
Would you go out and haveanybody else record it and kind
of help you with that?
Or is this kind of your babyfrom you know cradle to grave on
these?

Speaker 2 (24:38):
It is entirely me Uh, every note that you hear is me,
in fact my uh oldest brother,aaron, who uh, engineered, mixed
and co-produced all that stuffand then went on to do the
Angels stuff when I joined andhe's kind of become Tom's
right-hand man in the studio foreverything that he does.

(25:00):
But he, obviously, without himI wouldn't have been able to do
it, because he had a curiosityand an interest in recording.
I just wanted to play and write, so for him it was fun and we
played in bands together.
But he I feel like there aretwo types of musicians the ones
who have a tech savviness andthose who couldn't care less.

(25:25):
And he really got into that.
And this.
I feel like this was probablyat the time where digital
multi-track recorders were kindof being replaced by smaller
audio interfaces and still veryprimitive.
But I'm talking.
I mean, how, how familiar areyou with this stuff?

Speaker 1 (25:46):
Oh yeah, no, I remember when I got my first 828
and it was just mind-bogglingto be able to have something
like that.
I think I was like 2001, butgoing into studios where you had
these massive multi-tracks andnow you can fit everything in
your back pocket.
For those who are listeningthat might not understand
exactly what we're talking aboutaudio interface, being able to
plug something in, go into yourcomputer, record there digitally
, used Digitally.

(26:07):
It used to not be that way.
You just had record on tapes,tracks, dats.
I mean it was.
Yeah, it goes back.

Speaker 2 (26:13):
So and I had experience recording on that
stuff as a drummer, but neverfor my own sort of creative
output.
But my dad I mean I stillremember the model number but my
dad got him this Yamaharecorder called the AW4416 and
had a built in CD drive.
But I think that's where hekind of at least learned the

(26:37):
very basics of signal flow andgetting a recorded signal down.
But, as I said, this was at atime when those things were
becoming phased out and you canget a Digio one or Digio 2 and
you can have Pro Tools on yourcomputer.
And as that progressed and Ithought, okay, I play these
instruments, I'm going to forcemyself to sing so that I don't

(27:00):
have to depend on anybody, andhe said, okay, well, if you buy
a couple of pieces of gear, Ican record it for you.
So we kind of had a hodgepodgeof we didn't use that recorder
as a recorder but we could usethe preamps in it to run into
pro tools.
And at the time I bought twovintek x73s or like neve 1073

(27:23):
clones and two distressors, andthese are pieces of gear we have
to this day.
But I bought these in threeclones and two distressors and
these are pieces of gear we haveto this day, but I bought these
in maybe 07 or 08 I somewherearound there and my first 10
songs that are recorded are thefirst new regime album called
coup and uh.
Things progressed from thereand we both got better.

(27:45):
He is a engineer, mixer, me asa writer, singer, so on and so
forth, but everything you hearthere throughout the new regime
catalog is all me.
In fact, the one time Aarontried to record a tambourine
cause he's like I think thiswould be good here, I'm like it
is, but I'm going to rerecord itjust because it's some weird
OCD.

Speaker 1 (28:04):
Yeah, well, if you've done 99.9%, you got to do that.
I'll doCD.

Speaker 2 (28:08):
Yeah.
Well if you've done 99.9%.
You got to do that, I'll do it.

Speaker 1 (28:09):
Exactly Three tambourine hit.
That's gotta be me, man, it'sgotta be me.

Speaker 2 (28:12):
Only I can hit the tambourine that way now.
But but yeah, and I'm.
I am, I have to say, very proudof all of the new regime stuff.
The thing, the reason why Istarted releasing music under my
own name fairly recently thiswas in the pandemic was because,
first of all, the pandemicobviously knocked everybody down

(28:36):
, many pegs, especially touringmusicians, and so much of my
life had been touring as adrummer and then in the sort of
off season, so to speak, that'swhen I would have time to write
and record the new regime stuff.
So I feel like I was never ableto give the new regime the time
that it deserved, even though Itried and I toured a lot and I

(28:58):
put a lot into it.
I felt like I hadn't achievedwith it what I'd wanted to in
the in the 10 or so years it hadbeen around at the time, which
was shocking to me.
I'm like is this considered oldnow?
Is it not old?
It's not where I wanted to be.
So basically, when the pandemichit, I was on tour with the new
regime.
I had just put out my lastalbum called heart, mind, body

(29:20):
and soul, and we were supportingsilversun pickups at the time
and pulled up to a venue andrealized that nobody was loading
in and it's like, well, thecountry's shutting down,
everyone go home and maybe we'llbe back by July.
This was how early on that was.
But in realizing that it wasn'tgoing to be a couple of weeks

(29:41):
and that nobody actually knewwhat they were talking about, I
had a couple of decisions tomake.
I just had this gut feeling oflike, okay, if this is one year,
let alone two or more, I didn'twant to spend all that time
doing nothing, so to speak, justto pick up where I left off

(30:01):
before COVID.
So I thought okay, that's itfor the new regime.
I'm obviously still going towrite and record my own music,
but doing it under my own namefelt like a fresh start and the
music is somewhat different,even though it's still me.
But I also had this epiphanybecause a couple of years or the

(30:24):
year before the pandemic, thenew regime was supporting angels
and airwaves and I would playour 45 minute set or whatever it
was, and I would go, take offmy jacket and get back on stage
20 minutes later to play anangel set.
And I try to be very consciousabout not getting spoiled, right

(30:49):
.
So just because I'm in theheadlining band, who people are
actually there to see, doesn'tmean I should conduct myself as
the support act any differently.
So I would finish the angelsset and go to the new regime
merch booth, then hang aroundthere and the amount of people
who either said to me you looklike the singer in the new

(31:12):
regime or you look like thedrummer in Angels and Airwaves,
I thought, oh my God, this is adisconnect that I did not think
could be this bad and I don'tblame the people for that, but I
just thought there's adisservice I've been doing to
myself here for 10 years orwhatever it was.
So all of these experiences andemotions at the time led me to

(31:35):
say, okay, I'm going to do afresh start and there's going to
be no mystery as to what'sgoing on here.
And I suppose I enjoyed thesort of cloak of a band, of a
band I mean.
For example, nine Inch Nailswas a I wouldn't say an
inspiration at the time in termsof, yes, nine Inch Nails may
have started more of a band, buteverybody knows that Nine Inch

(31:56):
Nails is Trent Reznor.
Right, I did.
That resonated with me quite abit and I liked presenting it as
a band rather than here's mesolo.
But after having done it forquite a while and have been
having been comfortable with it,I thought OK, I've got nothing
to hide here, and it's me.

Speaker 1 (32:17):
Well, and you've had, you've had.
Do you have plans to have anyreleases here in the near future
?
Is there some new music that'son the way?
I know you've done some albumsand you got some singles you put
out.
What is what's?

Speaker 2 (32:27):
on the horizon.
I know you've done some albumsand you got some, you know
singles.
You put out what is, uh, what'son the horizon there.
So I'll tell you what I I'm.
I mean, I literally have thesession up right now for a song
that I'm working on, but I willhave three songs that are
unreleased.
They're in the can, ready to go, I should say, and one of the
things that I did with releasingunder my own name is, even

(32:50):
though I am an album lover andthat's how I grew up taking in
music I kind of like this ideaof releasing one song at a time
and nothing has to make sense incomparison to what comes before
or after it, and I didn't enjoythat.
But I feel like once these threesongs are out, I will have done
12 of these singles and I dokind of miss the longer format.

(33:13):
Everything has its pros andcons because it's just as much
effort spread over quite alengthy amount of time, and the
thing that I hated is that Iwould work and spend so much
time and attention to an albumand then, once it's out, it's
old news the following week andI was sick of feeling that what

(33:39):
I just said, that there's just alot of preparation that needs
to take place and unfortunatelyit's not as simple as here's my
new album.
I hope you enjoy it, because 8billion other people are doing

(34:00):
the exact same thing.
I mean, there's such a sadstatistic.
I read it the other day sayingthat more music comes out in one
day than the entirety of 1989.

Speaker 1 (34:10):
What.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
Yeah, yeah.
And on the one hand you couldthink, oh, that's great,
Everyone can do it.
But you know, not everyone'sgood at what they do.
Yeah, not everyone should.
You're fighting to get throughthe same thing.
Now, that is what it is and I'mnot saying any of that should
change.
But it's a difficult space tonavigate, especially if you're

(34:34):
not one of the one of the biggerbands.

Speaker 1 (34:38):
Yeah, yeah, no doubt.
Well is it is your goal tohopefully get some tracks out
there and then tour and then, ifso, what does that look like
for all the people who wouldneed to fill in those
replacements of those sounds?
Do you have kind of like a, agroup that becomes the backing
band that you've worked with, orthat they're always like yeah,
give me a call, I'm ready to dothis, or how does that look like

(34:58):
for you as far as moving out onthe road?

Speaker 2 (35:00):
I mean, I don't have anybody waiting for me for that
call, but I do have a goodstable of talented friends who I
could call, who would hopefullybe interested in this time, and
I would love to do it.
It's just, once again, I can'tseem to avoid the conundrum of
love to do it.
It's just, once again, I can'tseem to avoid the conundrum of
and this is, of course, a goodproblem to have, but I've got my

(35:21):
life as a drummer and I've gotmy life as a solo artist and I'm
not necessarily in completecontrol of either in terms of
scheduling.
So everything becomes this sortof.
I feel like, uh, like a kidwith a shapelet you're trying to
get everything to fit into the,into the, into the right shape,
and sometimes it works andsometimes it doesn't.
You got to figure out how am Igoing to do everything that I

(35:43):
want to do?
And then I don't know if it'sjust getting a little bit older,
but I fully subscribe to thisphenomenon that time becomes
faster, it does and it vanishes,and I understand why, but it is
terrifying.
I'm thoroughly depressed thatDecember I mean that 2025 is
around the corner.

Speaker 1 (36:03):
Now also moving forward with another project
here, which might even bring thetimeline even faster.
You're an author now, man.
On Friday you're dropping yourdebut book here and I'd love for
you to talk to me a little bitabout that.

(36:24):
It's 184 pages, spiral bound,and it has audio examples.
I mean it's a really coolconcept.
It's different than when I grewup and you'd get a book and
you'd just look at it.
It's, you know, different thanwhen I grew up and you get a
book and you just look at it,and now you can be able to
listen to something and get thereally good reference on what it
should sound like, and thenobviously, it's kind of like
building blocks that people cango with from that.

(36:46):
And I was just curious how didthis come about?
Is this something that you'vehad in mind for a little while?
I know that you love reading,that you're an intellectual, so
the idea of you is that is thatthrowing out loosely?

Speaker 2 (36:59):
I read it in an article, but the idea that you
would like uh, you kind of hadit I would love to be referred
to as an intellectual.
That's great.

Speaker 1 (37:03):
There you go.
You're like hey, everyonelisten Well.

Speaker 2 (37:07):
I'll tell you what I had always and when I say always
, I mean going back 20 years atleast wanted to eventually put
out a drum book, and there weremany aborted phases of me
starting to get notes on paper,and then I would get distracted
by something else that I wasdoing, and then I'll do it next

(37:30):
year, or, oh, it'd be reallygreat if I put it around this
time, because I'm doing that andthey could sort of
cross-pollinate in terms ofmarketing and blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah.
And for one reason or another,it never happened.
And then I got to a point whereI'm like holy shit, I'm 35.
And my wife was pregnant.
So I thought, okay, my time isgoing to take a big hit here,

(37:56):
and time is, you know, asidefrom my family, of course is the
most precious thing to me.
Yeah, and I just thought, okay,that's it, I'm 35.
I need to.
I need to have this book done,written, and it needs to be put
out by next year.
And if I don't do this, I don'tknow if I'm ever going to be
able to.
Sure, don't do this, I don'tknow if I'm ever going to be

(38:21):
able to.
And I just I sat down and I didit and it was a.
It was quite an undertaking,but it was a very satisfying
experience that I'm very proudof.
And I am a lover of books, notjust music books.
I love books.
I don't think there's anythingbetter looking than a bookshelf
full of books, and I love toread.

(38:44):
I am a largely self-taughtmusician.
I mean, I'm entirelyself-taught as a guitar player,
bass player, pianist, drumming.
I started somewhat self-taught.

(39:04):
Obviously, my dad got mestarted and he took me as far as
he could.
I learned a ton by myself andthen I started getting teachers
who taught me notation and so onand so forth.
But everything that I picked upI would love getting a book and
when it clicked that I couldteach myself whatever I wanted,
as long as I have a book thatwould show me how to do it.
And that was a great experience, and I didn't realize that it

(39:27):
was fairly atypical at the time.
You know, young people don'tgenerally like books.
A lot of old people don't likebooks either, but I always loved
them and so it was somethingthat I wanted to do, and when I
finally got around doing it,there are many hurdles and I'm
sure I mean you know all aboutthis.
You've put out books yourself.

(39:48):
Who's going to publish it?
Does anybody want to publish it?
How's this going to work?
And you can really get in yourown way rather than just getting
everything down on paper or onthe computer.
In my instance, I actuallywrote the entire thing by hand
and then input it into acomputer and now I use that kind
of treated that as a as a stageof editing.

(40:10):
Yeah, and then I sent all thatto the eventual publisher, which
was Hudson music, and that wasa great sort of full circle
moment for me, because I grew uphaving a lot of the stuff that
they published and a lot of thesort of drum VHS tapes that they
put out and the sort of thingsyou'd see behind the registry
guitar center.
I had a lot of those growing up.
So a friend of mine said hey,you should talk to maybe my um,

(40:36):
my manager.
She said, hey, you should talkto Mark Giuliani, he's got a
book.
I'm like you're right, he does,and got in touch with him.
Lovely guy, we've met a fewtimes in the past but had many
mutual friends.
He's like let me put you intouch with my guy, and this was
a guy named Joe Bergamini atHudson music and he was
interested.
And once you kind of have thatenthusiasm behind you and you've

(41:00):
made the commitment, there's noturning back, and I liked that
pressure.
But the undertaking was quitethorough.
I did not think in any way,shape or form would this book be
over 100 pages, let alone 184.
And what's funny is that, atleast in my scenario of kind of
pitching this idea, I wrote asample chapter or a sample

(41:23):
section and a mock table ofcontents and the guys at Hudson
looked at it and they're like,look, all this seems really good
, but you have at least twobooks worth of stuff here, maybe
three.
So why don't you just turn thefirst four chapters into this

(41:44):
book and then we'll see whatgoes on beyond that?
And I said, okay, great,that'll make it a whole hell of
a lot easier.
And it didn't, because itreally was a lot of material.
So I turned those four chaptersinto four sections that were
then subdivided into a total of40 chapters.
And there you have it.
So the book's called StartSomewhere to Go Somewhere, and

(42:05):
that was a sort of phrase from afriend I've had for a long time
, a great drummer Actually.
You know, his name is MikeFasano, really good friend,
great drum tech on.
I mean great drum tech andgreat drummer.
But we met working togetherwhen I was about 13, 14.
He came in and got the drumsounds for the album and he did

(42:25):
this for so many great drumrecordings and I suppose he
could fill that sort ofmentorship role, because my
parents and I would ask him okay, how do how do we get to the
next level?
How does he, how does he domore sessions?
And he would always say hey,you're young man, don't worry
about it, just keep doing whatyou're doing.
You got to start somewhere, togo somewhere.
And when I was smashing my headagainst the desk trying to come

(42:49):
up with a title for the book,somehow that just came back to

(43:20):
me and I used it and I was likeI, I owe you, I've got a debt of
gratitude.
He's like what are you talkingabout?
And I was like here's what Inamed my book and ideas, because
everything comes from somethingsimpler and not everything
needs to be complicated.
What's most important is whatyou can get out of anything.
Obviously, in the instance ofdrums, okay, here's a rudiment.
What can you actually do withit other than playing it on a
snare drum or a practice pad.
You can use it for fills, youcan use it for solo material,

(43:42):
but here are ways in which theapplicability of them is very
apparent.
For whatever that's worth, Iwill take something, I will
become comfortable with it, I'llgo okay, what if I add a note

(44:04):
here, or what if I move thisnote over there?
Now it becomes something alittle more interesting.
Okay, now, I'm comfortable withthat.
How do I make that moreinteresting?
And you kind of displace notesor distribute notes across
different drums, and you come upwith these things that all
sound very different but arebased upon this very simple

(44:24):
building block.
And I hope that that showspeople, when they stumble across
something simple, where they'renot thinking, okay, this is
simple, they think what can I dowith this, or what can I make
out of this?
They think what can I do withthis, or what can I make out of
this?
And I think that's a veryimportant way to look at things,
especially musically, becausecomplexity does not always bring

(44:47):
something fun to the table.

Speaker 1 (44:50):
Sometimes you have to have that kiss method right.
Keep it simple stupid, but youcan strip that down and you can
build from that.
And that's where I like youtalk about, like in section one,
like at the practice pad.
You know it's things that youkind of talk about, that you
even do like while you'rewarming up for shows, right, and
it's some things to kind of getyou warmed up and you can take
it to at the drums and whenyou're listening to these audio

(45:10):
samples that come with the ebookor you know you can, when you
go to Hudson and you purchasethis, you can go ahead and it'll
.
You can download these audioclips and so the you're you're
getting an example of what itsounds like in a slower format
and then you have it later on issped up.
And there's also something it'slike not just on the snare,
it's like okay, hey, oh, that'show you can incorporate.

(45:30):
You know the, the Tom's in thesound and it's.
I love that idea.
When you talk about likebuilding blocks, that's what it
really feels like.
There's things that you and youprogress and you have so many
different things.
And then the sticking and Ihave to just mention this real
quick too, because you're you'rean open-handed drummer, right,
like you started out, and if youwouldn't mind, just give me a
little one minute version ofthat and then how it is that you

(45:52):
prepared this book, where it'snot just in that method.
It can be all around, howeveryou want to do your sticking.
But if you wouldn't mind justmentioning that too, because I
think it's a fascinating way,when I first saw you playing and
then moving on to the otherside of the kid, I was like wait
, what's happening here?

Speaker 2 (46:05):
Well, thanks.
So it was a very naivediscovery that my left hand was
closer to the high hat.
It's that simple.
And my dad taught me the way heknew how to play, which was
right hand on the hi-hat, overyour hand, that's hitting the
snare drum.
And when he left me to practicesomething, which is what he
would do he'd say, okay, work onthat and come get me when you

(46:27):
think you got it.
And in that moment I was likethis doesn't make any sense.
It's silly.
I could hit my hand by mistake.
Why would I do that?
This is closer and my hands arenot in the way of each other.
And that was that.
I came in to the house, I said,all right, dad, I got to come
listen to it.
I played the beat and he justhe looked at it or at me and was
seemingly confused because itsounded right, but it didn't

(46:50):
look right.
And I have no problem saying itdidn't look right, because when
I see open-handed drummers, Ithink that doesn't look right.
Yeah, is he okay?
Yeah, but that's left-handeddrummers.
That one's even weirder.
I can't look at them.
You know, it's funny is that Igot to send a book to Dom Howard
from Muse, who's a good friendof mine.

(47:11):
He's the only proper leftydrummer that I know, so
hopefully it works out for him.
But the discovery of playingopen-handed, but already having
sort of started right-handed, Ihad a ride cymbal to my right, I
had a crash ride to my left.
Some things came to me verynaturally right-handed, Most

(47:34):
things came to me more naturallyleft-handed or open-handed.
And again, I should say, theonly things I do left-handed are
hit the hi-hat and write, and Iwrite very terribly.
It is completely illegible andI can blame that on being

(47:55):
left-handed in that regard.
But I thought, okay, well, Ikind of need to be able to do
most things both ways.
It's not something I'mobsessive about, but generally
when I'm on the high hand, I'mplaying with my left, I'm on the
right, I move to my right, andI thought, okay, this is another
through line to the book that Ithink could be very useful.
It could be a challenge topeople who want to enhance their

(48:16):
coordination or their strengthon the weaker side.
Or it could be a book forpeople who do play like me, and
I've stumbled across a couplewhere they go.
I play open-handed, but I alsokind of play right-hand.
I'm like, well, this is perfect.
So I think it ticks a lot ofboxes in terms of who it's good
for.
I think it ticks a lot of boxesin terms of who it's good for

(48:37):
and skill level, genre.
I think all these things arerelevant to this book, because
there's nothing in there that'sastronomically difficult, right,
and there are things in therethat are quite simple.
Linear trajectory of slightlybecoming more interesting and
more syncopated and slightlymore difficult, I think would

(49:01):
pertain to a very wide range ofdrummers.

Speaker 1 (49:05):
I think so, man.
You kind of talk aboutdifferent influences and
interviews.
You've talked about of stylesof music, but this is something
that it's like again.
It's that basic block rightFirst time drummer can pick this
up, somebody who's veryexperienced can pick this up,
and they're going to be able tohave really cool practice things
.
Maybe they've done them before,maybe they haven't, but as far

(49:25):
as the application thereof, itcan go into any genre.
Uh, I really did.
You know, and it's, I think,coming back from when I was
growing up.
You know I'm 45 now and you knowI there we didn't have, you
know, the internet to where youcould just go and click play.
When I was 11 years old,learning it's like and and hear
how it would sound.
You could maybe go get a VHStape.
But looking at drum notation,and I love the idea that now

(49:48):
it's like I could read this inyour book, I could go over there
and play and like, okay, that'show that sounds to me.
If I'm stumbling up on somethingor I'm trying to do some
inverted paradiddle andsomething is just different for
me like okay, but I love theidea that someone and especially
those who may read, uh or notbe able to read music as well,
but they can hear it.
Well, you know so manydifferent people.
I can pick that song out, I canfigure out that part, but they

(50:10):
might not be able to read music,or vice versa.
I love that you have examplesof both.
I feel it applies for everybodyand I'm really excited for this
to come out.
You know this podcast will airon Friday, so today, guys, you
can go and check that out.
It's going to be over at HudsonMusic and I highly suggest you
go and pick it up.
I know that there's someautographed copies there too, so
there's like 25 left or so itcould be.

Speaker 2 (50:32):
I haven't checked, to be honest with you, but I will
say so.
In terms of the recorded audioit is me playing.
There are about 50 or soexercises that have the audio.
Now, if you get the book in aphysical copy, there's a
download link there and you'llget your files.
However, that works.
But Hudson also has a great appand it's kind of like their

(50:53):
iBooks, where you can go in andbuy the books right then and
there.
But if you get the digitalversion of the book, you have
the play button right in thebook and you can listen to that.
So really the only barrier toentry is to be able to read, and
it's not very complex stuff interms of the reading.
It's not like there isn't asingle groove in the book.

(51:14):
So everything is fairly linear.
It's really an exploration onexpanding upon rudiments at the
drum set, really, and what canbe done with them.
So everything is very linear,and what I mean by that in a
musical context is that rarelydo two things hit at once, so
you can really just follow thesephrases and patterns.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
And even if it's slow , you can do it and being able
to hit that play button isreally cool.
So everyone, I kind of suggestthat, as well as you know having
a physical copy that you cankind of take with you too and
you're maybe unplugged from theworld and you're in your studio
or whatever, practicing, and youknow just kind of you know
curious of where people can goto like not only just, you know,
pick this up at Hudson Music,but to follow your journey and

(52:10):
maybe what's coming next.
No-transcript.

Speaker 2 (52:29):
Well, fortunately, all of my social media stuff is
just my name Ilan Rubin,i-l-a-n-r-u-b-i-n.
I am most active on Instagram.
I am trying to do that betterbecause it is 2024, not for long
, but it is an important part ofthings, so that I've actually
made an attempt to be a bit moreactive in that regard.
But, yeah, I think Instagram isa good place and YouTube is

(52:54):
something that I have kind ofdone on and off, you know, just
depending on the time of course.
But, for example, I mean I dohave a video where I talk about
the book a little more in depth,but some really fun drum camp
stuff from Nine Inch Nails toursand Angels and Airwaves tours,
some of my own music stuff whereI kind of go into deep dives

(53:15):
into the actual Pro toolsessions of songs that I've
released in the last couple ofyears.
But, yeah, fun stuff that I'mtrying to to keep up with.
But between all of that andthen creating the stuff to begin
with and it's quite anundertaking, but you're trying
to I'm trying to make time bringit out of thin air, just summon
it and slow it down too, right?

Speaker 1 (53:36):
So that bring it out of thin air just summon it and
slow it down too right?
Exactly that would be great.
When you figure out thatformula, share it with me.
I would love to know.
Well, you know and that kind ofbrings me to my final question
there is you know, I know,obviously you're married, you
have a kiddo, that is, you know,fairly young and you, being
where you're at and you kind ofyou ticked off one of those
boxes that you know.

(53:56):
I think that any person whoreally pursues music and loves
touring and everything, andthat's to you know, maybe one
day get the, you know, theshining accolades of being in
the Rock and Roll Hall of Fameright, and it's some, it's a
dream in there too.
And you were the youngest everto be inducted, and I know that
you're still a young man as faras that's concerned, I consider

(54:17):
myself one too.
Right, we'll, we'll, we'llconsider that Right, absolutely
Right.
Yes, yes, I see the youngwhippersnappers that are, yeah,
but you know, we're, we're stillin in that, you know, maybe
even haven't hit our prime yet,but the idea that, the idea of
legacy, and I think it changesfor a lot of people too when
they have kids and what theythink about and what they want

(54:39):
to leave behind, as far as on aprofessional and on a personal
setting.
And I was just curious do youthink much about that?
Is that an idea that is, youknow, tied into what you do,
cause I know that you're soprofessional about so many
things that you enter?
I don't think you ever half-assanything from what it seems
like what you get involved in,enter.
I don't think you ever half-assanything from what it seems
like what you get involved in.

(54:59):
And I was curious what do youthink about?
Is that imprint that you leavebehind when each of those
projects are done, or at thevery end of your life?
And, looking back on thosethings, what does that kind of
idea of legacy look like to you?

Speaker 2 (55:10):
That is a very good, deep and profound question.
Now, I do think it's a toughone to answer because, I mean,
when you think about legacy asan idea, I feel like it's hard
to answer in a way that doesn'tsound pretentious or arrogant.

(55:35):
Okay, now, there's nothingwrong with wanting to be
remembered, especially, you know, in a in a great way.
Right now, I suppose all I cansay in doing my best to not
sound like that, I would, Iwould love to leave a legacy
behind where people appreciateme the way I appreciate my

(55:58):
heroes.
Now, the thing that's odd tosay about that is that my heroes
are absolute legends.
You know, yeah, I would love itif people looked at me the way
they looked at, uh, you know thebeatles and led zeppelin, queen
, but that doesn't exist anymore, right, and it's a, it's a very
.
The world is constantlychanging, okay, and it changed

(56:19):
tremendously from when my heroeswere around and it's changed
tremendously in the last 10years.
So what legacy is and what itcan be, I have no idea, because
I perhaps could be on the cuspof that generation, so to speak.
That goes oh, the, the kidsmusic, the music kids are

(56:40):
listening to these days.
It's never going to stickaround.
I genuinely feel that way abouta lot of it.
But how the hell could I know?
I could be colossally wrong andI probably will be right.
People said that about actualgreatness, so maybe there's just
a big disconnect and tastethere knows.
Let's chalk it up to that.
Yeah, I just hope, uh, a goodamount of people appreciate what

(57:02):
I do and hopefully I've donesomething worth appreciating.
Now in the, in the present, Ifeel like I don't want to say my
, my focus is shifted becauseit's all tied into one another.
But, as you said, being a,being a dad I'm, I also want to
accomplish everything that Iwant to accomplish for his sake,

(57:22):
because I want to be able togive him everything that he
needs to pursue what he wants topursue and to be able to
succeed.
I don't want to, I don't wantto impede anything that he may
want to do.
Now.
I feel like I've got some time.
Right now he can't even talkyet, so but I I feel a giant
ticking clock behind me at alltimes, and it's now ticking

(57:43):
faster.

Speaker 1 (57:45):
Yeah, no, it's a fuel , I think too, and when you look
at that in your life too, it'slike you know especially I see a
lot of my friends that you knowtheir parents, they're losing
their parents and then it's allof a sudden they're the elder of
the family and I think thatkeeps time creeps going quicker.
But it I think a lot of youknow about what it is that you
are doing, the impact, theimprint you're leaving on the

(58:06):
world and you know, hopefully,that your name is and is
remembered and that your work isremembered.
And you know your discographyis huge.
I know that there's alwaysgoing to be the ability to go
and especially now, the abilityto just pick up your phone and
play and check it out.
I've seen you play live.
Uh, it's again, it's.
It's really.
It's fun that all these thingscan get recorded in that way.

(58:27):
With digital world and as faras video and audio cause, those
things will live forever.
Uh, I highly suggest people gocheck out YouTube page and make
sure you've keen in on some ofthose live videos, because those
are super fun.
The perfect drug oh my gosh,that that rendition that was
recorded there is phenomenal man.
I was always wondering how thatwas going to be played live.

(58:47):
I know Chris, you know and Joshhave seen those guys play, but
this one is just a great one.
So that's a.
That's a video.
I'd say start with a reallygood one.
But listen, man, I reallyappreciate you coming on today
and and I wish you all the bestof luck with this book.
Uh, look forward to hopping onagain sometime when you know
volume two comes out and, uh,you know, hopefully next time

(59:08):
you're on tour, uh, saying helloin person sometime, but I
really appreciate you coming ontoday and thank you so much.
Well, thank you for having me,I appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (59:14):
Cheers man, you take care, you too.
Bye.