April 19, 2023 • 34 mins
Deborah and Brenda discuss the dynamics of repairing our relationship with those we share our life with and, more importantly, with our self. The latter requiring a skill set that asks us to be patient with our unresolved issues. Learning how to live with those questions takes us ever closer to the answers we seek, even when we cannot see them now. Trusting in that process informs a sense of faith in our soul journey, which is one of the keys to self-acceptance. When we are able repair our relationship with our self, when we accept the lessons our life has gifted us, we move closer to repairing our relationships with others. It is a circle of compassion.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome to the Soul Path Sessions podcast with
Deborah Minds Pearson and BrendaLittleton.
Brenda is an educator andcounselor rooted in YY and
ecopsychology.
She helps her clients understandthe importance of the mind,
body, spirit, and earthrelationship for healing.
Deborah is a licensedpsychotherapist and has been
trained in traditional andsacred psychology, exploring
(00:31):
from the ground up what makesour human experience meaningful,
wholesome, and enlightening.
Deborah and Brenda invite you toaccompany them on a soul path
journey as they explore thepossibilities of living them a
soulful life as therapists,seekers, and lovers of fate.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Welcome back to Soul Path Sessions.
I'm here with my dear friend andcolleague, Brenda Littleton, and
this is Deborah Mites Pearson.
And today we're going to addressthe soul of relational repair.
And we're gonna jump in thewater with something that you,
Brenda, have, are, have writtenabout that's beautifully
(01:13):
written, and I'd like you toread it and then we can examine
what you've actually are tryingto communicate here.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Okay.
Thanks, Deborah.
Um, this is a piece that's kindof a preamble to a program that
I have.
And, uh, I, I needed to findsome basic guidelines, uh, by
which to contain how we repairand move forward in life.
And so it starts as long asthere is judgment, there is
(01:40):
separation.
As long as there is separation,there is denial.
As long as there is denial,there is anger.
As long as there is anger, thereis depression.
As long as there is depression,there is anxiety.
As long as there is anxiety,there is panic.
(02:03):
All of these theories are hereto guide you back to acceptance
for where there is acceptance,there is self-love.
We start with self-love.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Wow.
Sounds like a recipe.
that starts out with allthe ingredients you don't wanna
put in it.
And so, and then it, and then itbrings us back with like
judgment and denial and angerand depression and anxiety and
panic, things that we can allrelate to.
(02:38):
And then it becomes verygenerous and it says, these are
Furies, a very mythic way ofputting this, uh, these
conditions we all suffer from,and that they have a medicinal
purpose, that they actuallyguide us back to acceptance.
So I'd like to give you someroom to help us with these
things that you reposition as
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Helpers.
Yeah.
I, I, I have, um, I belief thatanxiety is my best friend.
Hmm.
Um, that depression is my bestfriend.
Mm-hmm.
, um, or from ayoung EM perspective.
Um, my manic comes to visit me,you know, and so I host it and I
I do not try and eliminate it.
And these are all of our, ourforms of orphans.
(03:22):
Matt Lakota talks about our, ourorphans mm-hmm.
and, and the ideaof bringing them, um, back to be
rehomed.
And they don't want to be toldthat they are not good enough
and that they have to change andmorph and be regenerative, and
that they are in themselvesenough.
Mm-hmm.
.
And, and so anxiety is one ofthose orphans.
(03:45):
Mm-hmm.
, there's that partof me that when I get really
anxious, um, I realize if I stopand I say, okay, anxiety is
here, how is it in my life?
How is it formed in my liferight now?
And I go through, identify howanxiety lives mm-hmm.
, and it's like,well, um, a month ago I had a
similar little experience, but Idismissed it.
(04:07):
Mm-hmm.
, I, I pushed itaside.
I said, I can, I can workthrough this mm-hmm.
, um, so it's anaccumulative fatigue almost.
Mm-hmm.
mm-hmm.
and anxiety willnot go away until it's fully
present and allowing us to payattention to it.
It wants to be, it wants to beincluded.
Mm-hmm.
, it will not goaway until it has done its work.
(04:27):
Mm-hmm.
.
So one of the ways that we keep,uh, in relationship with anxiety
is de is denying it.
Mm-hmm.
is repressing itis taking anti-anxiety mm-hmm.
to, to avoid it,to, I don't wanna go there yet,
but if we do allow a sense of,uh, communication, a, a
(04:48):
conversation, a sense of trustmm-hmm.
, that there's areason it's here.
And yes, we have all of thisinner cultural, outer societal
and the world is going on, buthow we allow this to be, to seep
into our lives has been reframedand, and, um, curated from being
(05:09):
a child, you know, from ourfamily of origin mm-hmm.
, what wasacceptable behavior.
Mm-hmm.
mm-hmm.
, um, our wounds,our, our our desires being
dismissed.
And, um, and we were taught todismiss our needs mm-hmm.
.
And so we bring that with usforward, and so mm-hmm.
, when I was makingthis kind of recipe as you call
(05:30):
it Yeah.
Um, it was about identifyingYeah.
There, these are the stages thatif we, we don't have to go back
to the original wound, we canjump in and listen and be in
conversation with and learn totrust that we can, uh, listen to
these aspects of ourselves thatthey mm-hmm.
(05:51):
, they are herebringing us opportunities to
repair and recover.
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
, you
know, I'm listening to you, I'm
thinking of, uh, the work I doand the work both on myself and
with my clients, and it has alot to do with how we adapted to
, to wounds and separation andjudgment.
Use your words.
How we adapted to judgment as achild, um, coming from our
(06:16):
family or our extended family orour, our community.
Um, we felt separate and I, andwhen we felt separate, we may be
in denial of that because yougotta fit in.
Yeah.
And in that denial, we may justhave this low level of
self-rejection and fear, whichcan turn into anger and that can
(06:38):
depress our life energy andcause us anxiety.
And the therapies that I foundreally helpful when you're
talking about hosting, um, or,or creating room would be
therapies like internal familysystems or voice dialogue where
you literally go into the bodyand find where it's painful and
(06:59):
imagine it as an inner child ora wound and create, like,
intentionally create a voice forit.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Mm-hmm.
.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Yeah.
As a protector, somebody whohelped you when you're growing
up.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it, they are there.
They, I mean, those arecompensation skills that do keep
the ego, um, the ego createsthese to allow us to move
forward in our lives and notYeah.
Because at the time we, we were,we did not have the language to
articulate.
We perhaps weren't even aware ofhow to understand the feelings
(07:28):
that we were having mm-hmm.
, but they werereal.
So it's pre-verbal mm-hmm.
.
And that's why somatic therapyis a big part of
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Into the body.
Yeah.
And then the stories that comeup from the body.
Yeah.
So this idea that, um, that wecan dialogue, create some room
to say hello, little three yearold memory, um, you couldn't
really answer back to mom or dador you, or you couldn't tune it
(07:56):
down.
So you adapt it and then you hadto do that.
Uh, we now have a term calledmicroaggressions.
So maybe we weren't hit orlocked in a closet, but we may
have felt overwhelmed day afterday after day after day after
day.
And then we, we tuned ourselvesto it.
And my way of being dealing withoverwhelm would probably be to
(08:18):
hide.
Mm-hmm.
.
Um, and or my way of dealingwith, uh, underwhelmed that
you're ignoring me would mightbe to reach out and try to get
your attention.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Act out.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Uhhuh,
because it's gonna, children are
extremely resilient.
These what we call unhealthyselves that maybe judge and
separate are also and deny theykept us here.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Absolutely.
They created a world that wecould survive in, in a world
that we had very little power.
Mm-hmm.
.
And, um, we brought thosedefense mechanisms or
compensations or patterns alongwith us on the developmental
scale as we became teenagers andyoung adults.
And as we move through life, andusually we're quite happy with
(08:59):
them until we realize the endresult keeps repeating and we're
not really happy with the endresult.
Mm-hmm.
.
And so what, what does thatmean?
Mm-hmm.
.
And, uh, if I could David reRico, who, who's quite pro
prolific in his books, but hehas a quote that I like.
It's like, our problem is notthat his children, our needs
were unmet, but that as adults,they are still unmoored
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Un mourned the word mourning.
Yeah.
Like grief work.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Yeah.
Grief work.
Mm-hmm.
.
Yeah.
And that, um, and, and this tiesin with Matt Lakatos work as
well, is that when we have thesemoments of grief and we separate
from them cuz life goes onmm-hmm.
, and we, we don'twanna dwell and we didn't have
the, the language to dwell.
We didn't come to the dinnertable and say, gosh, mom, I had
(09:47):
a really good day at school andcan we talk about my grief
mm-hmm.
my unmet needsfrom earlier this morning.
You know, we, we, we just don'tlive in a culture,
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Especially if there's no room for that.
No.
If, if there's nobody there to,to hold it, as you would say.
And I think this idea, um, whatmakes us work so challenging, I
think individually for, for allof us is the sense we're doing
it in a vacuum.
And in my own experience, Ineeded to be in a therapeutic
(10:17):
loving environment with a wiseadult who would point out to me
that I was compensating, I wasjudging or separating or denying
and gimme a framework tounderstand that what I had
missed.
Because a lot of us don't, it'sfamiliar.
Families are familiar.
So for if our parents tell usthey'll love us if we're super
(10:39):
athletic, or they'll tell usthat we're, we're not worth
their time because they'readdicted and missing, um, we
don't really have good modelsmm-hmm.
for that wiseadult.
So this self-love that you talkabout in the last line, um, to
me that's a real reflection ofbeing valued.
(10:59):
And the therapeuticrelationship, one of the things
it can provide is just the,first of all, you value yourself
enough to sign up for it.
And then the therapist or thehealer holds space for you is if
you mattered.
And is if the parts of you thatadapted to your inevitability,
uh, inevitabilities in yourfamily of origin was went
(11:23):
through a patient process foryou to, to appreciate you.
Yeah.
You, the little soner in yourfamily trying to cope with too
much or not enough and needs tobreak into the realization of
that and holds a place of theadult saying, how did that,
that's, that's neglect or that'sabuse.
(11:43):
Mm-hmm.
, and they can evenname it mm-hmm.
because to to somany of us, it's so familiar.
It's just what you adapt to.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Especially if you adapt in a way that is viewed as
being, um, exemplary mm-hmm.
.
So all of a sudden you're inyour forties or fifties or
sixties and you realize whatyou've valued because you've
been told that you're valuablebecause of the skill that you
developed at compensation.
It's also a hindrance.
It's, it's also a sense of, um,a contributor to your ongoing
(12:14):
patterning that's causing youdeep grief.
Yeah.
Um, such as in my own life being, um, you know, my life was, as
a kid it was very competitiveand, um, my parents made sure
that I had, that they, that theywanted, that they wanted to know
that they were giving meeverything possible that they
never had.
(12:34):
So it was highly, you know, likeall the private schools and the
activities and the events and,and all I wanted to do is my way
of compensating was to go intomy room and read a book mm-hmm.
and that became mylife, my lifeline where reading
became my compensation.
And so reading meant that Iended up being a really good
(12:57):
student.
Mm-hmm.
and that meantthat I went on to be eventually,
you know, a collector of degreesmm-hmm.
because that wasme telling myself, if you just
do this cuz you're really goodat being a student, if you just
do this, you'll be okay.
Mm-hmm.
.
And eventually it's like afterdoing it and realizing I'm still
not okay.
Yeah.
There's still deep grief here.
(13:18):
There's deep, there's workthat's preventing me, there's
work to do that I haven't donethat's preventing me from
getting where I wanna be.
Yeah.
And no matter how good a studentI am, it's not gonna be enough.
Um,
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Well it has to do with not connecting.
I mean, one of the things thatTerry Real is talking about in
his book Us, which I love, andI'm gonna read again because I,
it's just making such a goodpoint where we connect is not
being better than or worse thanit's being us.
The name of his book.
It's feeling you're not eventhinking about the connection.
It's just comfortable.
(13:51):
You're part of us, we care aboutyou, we are just the way you
are.
You're just here and there's,you have no more value or less
value than any other human onearth and you don't have to
worry about that.
And he makes a further pointthat our culture is just soaking
in a patriarchal view of, uh,that we are constantly gotta be,
(14:15):
uh, in a position approvingourselves to some model that we
can never achieve.
And it's inherently damaged ourparents mm-hmm.
and then they passthat on to us.
And for us to really take astrong look at how rarely when
we're in this journey to getahead, we're really stopping
(14:35):
mm-hmm.
to pay, even payattention to each other.
Like as if there's some sort ofsafety in the next and none in
the moment.
So to me, self-love is love on a, on a deeper level appreciation
for the journey I've beenthrough and the appreciation for
the journey you've been on.
So I can be in love with you andyou can be in love with me and
(14:57):
our shared experience.
Cuz the minute it's held outthere that I've gotta do
something to earn it, I am lost.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Yeah.
What's that outside validation?
It's, it's lost.
It's that search for chronicoutside validation.
It's,
Speaker 2 (15:12):
We're so, it's so pervasive that now with TikTok
culture now many likes, itcontinues on and I'm sitting
here in this little studio withyou and I'm looking at myself on
a screen up here in my kayak andthinking when I'm in my kayak,
I'm alone.
I'm not compared to anything,I'm connected to nature.
When I'm having the bestconversation with you, we're not
(15:34):
trying to achieve anythingmm-hmm.
other than theconnection.
And that's, that's that warmthand that forgiving environment
mm-hmm.
Of compassion.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
Compassion and self-love and the sense of it's,
it puts you in a differentplatform to be in relationship
with another as opposed to whenwe are so addicted and we don't
even know why we're drivingourselves to, to crave outside
validation because, um, ayoungian term is so within us
(16:06):
without, and if, when I, when Ihear a client say, you know, I
really, all I want is to beloved, I hear them saying, all I
need to do is love myself.
Mm-hmm.
, and they, this,it's the same reciprocity.
Mm-hmm.
, uh, I, Iresponded to David Rico's con
quote by saying, um, the idea ofof going back and, uh, really
grieving, uh, not eliminating,um, not preventing that
(16:30):
self-love, but but going in andgrieving as a form of cleaning
and clearing and accepting andholding and rehoming those
orphans.
Mm-hmm.
So that all of the, the unmetbusiness, um, all those, those
love letters to ourselves arecompleted.
Mm-hmm.
And, and that we then have adifferent foundation.
(16:51):
And I say this deep grief, willalchemically convert the
insatiable longing to be lovedinto visceral self-love.
Mm-hmm.
, when we searchfor a partner from this place of
repair, this place of self-love,we don't attract nor let in
(17:12):
perpetrators of pain, snipers ofsoul, people who will eat your
energy and suck you dry.
There is just no way they canmake it through your gates of
self-love.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
I love that.
And you know, one of the ways Iwork with that, um, with my
clients when they're, whenthey're saying, why did I get
stuck with a narcissist again?
Um, when they're, when they dothe inner work and we go back
through decision making memoriesas a kid, you know, when I gave
myself up and I had to hide inmy room and I couldn't talk to
(17:47):
you, and we create thisenvironment where they close
their eyes and go in and makecontact in the interview, the
interview interview theinterview.
Yeah.
And then naturally what happensis they begin to pay attention.
There's a consciousness in us.
Like when you see a puppy and itneeds these help across the
(18:07):
street, it's sort of a naturaldesire to help mm-hmm.
.
And once that connection ismade, there's an internal
protectiveness compassion thatis very parental.
Wow.
And so, as we retrieve theselost puppies, these inner
orphans, there is a naturalprotectiveness that starts to
develop, which we call the innerparent.
(18:28):
And so when that person goes outinto a dating atmosphere,
they're highly aware of the waythey were wounded and lost and
orphaned.
And if someone does not careabout them or steps on their
feelings, they're much moreinclined to be the first witness
of that.
Mm-hmm.
And to take a step back and say,I deserve better than that.
(18:52):
Um, are you good enough for me?
Becomes the question not, am Igood enough for you?
Are you present enough?
Are you human enough?
Are you grounded enough?
Look at the words I'm using.
Not not like you're the perfectmate in sense of like, I have
parabolic stance, but are you atrue human being?
Are you able to be wise andgrounded and protective of both
(19:18):
of us and interested in both ofus?
And that to me seems like the,the ultimate repair when we go
out into the dating world.
Mm-hmm.
or therelationship world
Speaker 3 (19:28):
And safety.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
, are you safe forme?
And, and having what
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Am I safe for you?
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Yeah.
And well, am I safe for you?
This, this, um, leads me intoresponding when a client says,
well, I'm just gonna let it allgo.
I, I, you know, I, there's justtoo much to work on.
I'm just gonna do better.
I'm gonna show up.
I'm not gonna dwell, you know,it's that, um, denial again.
And I say, and to addressanother perspective when there
(19:54):
is a system of denial,avoidance, resistance,
repression going on within ourown self.
Mm-hmm.
, especially whennot dealing with grief, our
wounds, our pain, we contributeto contaminating our partner's
love for us.
Mm-hmm.
, in other words,when the overall air quality of
(20:15):
our psychological, emotional andphysical energy is thick smog,
we suffocate love.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
I love that idea.
I mean, it's basically, uh, whatyou're saying is I get so
protective what I'm hearing yousay, when I get so protective of
my space, I I have no room foryour space.
I'm protecting my wounded selfand I don't even have the
bandwidth to find out how youreally are doing and what you're
(20:43):
projecting.
So I keep recreating the samesituation
Speaker 3 (20:46):
And hoping that you'll put up
Speaker 2 (20:48):
With it Yeah.
And hoping you'll put up withit.
And I probably am, uh,traumatizing you in the
relationship.
Yeah.
Because very likely if you keeppursuing me and I'm sending out
toxins, uh, very likely you'remy partner is denying
themselves.
So we're, we're having thisrelationship with each other's
(21:10):
wounds.
Yeah.
As opposed to noticing that Idon't feel grounded and I wanna
drop the conversation into thebody and I don't feel safe.
I'm gonna drop the conversation.
And I have this thing I, I workwith clients on, it's called
scary questions where we canactually ask, do you feel
grounded right now?
(21:30):
Cause I'm feeling really wipedout or, um, are you
noticing that, uh, like we'retalking at each other, like just
calling what's going on in theroom?
Because we're more grounded inour feeling like our, we have a
sense of safety in the body.
Mm-hmm.
, we're learning tobreathe into the body and we
have, and the other thing is,we're not afraid of our wounds.
(21:52):
That's huge.
If I'm not afraid of my innerchildren because they're just
wounded and they're just waitingfor me to pay attention to the
little snippet that they'regonna show me where they made
that important decision towithdraw or to overwhelm people
and I know how to be present forthem.
I'm not afraid of them anymore.
So when a client says, I don'twanna do inner child work, I did
(22:14):
it back in the nineties orwhatever, like, you don't know
what your body's gonna tell youwhen you close your eyes, it
needs healing.
It's constantly healing like thecells of your body are
repairing.
Yeah.
And your body will give you theimage that's blocking you today
cuz it will resonate.
So you tell me this story abouttoday, close your eyes and ask
your body, where did it comefrom?
(22:34):
When did it originate?
We don't have to spend years intherapy to find
Speaker 3 (22:38):
That.
Right.
It's right there.
Yeah.
The body, the muscle memory,when I say to to clients, it's
like, what's your gut reaction?
You know, it's don't, don'tintellectualize it.
Um, that's, that, that would bere deferring and putting the
burden on ego to come up withthe right answer as opposed to
relying on soul, which is, um,the spirit within the body.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
That's right.
It's attention, it's lovingattention as if you cared that
somebody hurts and somebody hasa neural network to a time when
we made an important decision tonot trust and let's find them.
Let's put down the rope and theflashlight.
Yeah.
Let's pay attention.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
That's why it's so easy to get caught up
intellectually and to spinaround.
Yeah.
And I, I I, I've, I'm reallygood at that myself, you know,
being a purveyor of words and awriter and a teacher of words
and it's like, stop it.
Go into the body and, um, actimagination from a young I
(23:44):
perspective it, it it is, it islike one the key.
It's one of the three stools ofa a three leg of a stool.
Mm-hmm.
, um, dreamwork,uh, dialogue and active
imagination, which includeslooking and working with the
images of our dreams, but moreimportantly identifying in the
body where that particularmoment that that friend the, the
(24:06):
anxiety or the panic or theorphan mm-hmm.
.
Um, and we just deal with themoment.
We don't have to go back intothe lineage.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
No, you don't have to tell a real long story cuz it's
the moment of decision, um, likeyour first line here, as long as
there's judgment, there'sseparation.
So I'm gonna make that longlines of the conversation of
self-love.
When, when we look at the woundfrom, from a soft place mm-hmm.
when it's felt inthe body, and then the little
(24:35):
snippet of memory comes up andwe're allowed to see it and feel
it and bring it in and spendmore time, the separation goes
away.
We're willing to do forourselves what wasn't done for
us back then.
Right.
Which is to just attend.
So what happened, and the thingI always tell my clients is it's
already happened.
You don't have to be afraid ofit.
(24:55):
Mm.
Boots on the ground.
You're here, you're having it,the sense, but we're also, we're
here.
I'm an adult and you're an adultand we're witnessing what
happened to somebody else.
So it already happened.
We bring in the wise adult andthen there's no judgment,
there's no separation, there'sno denial.
There may be anger, but it'sgonna be the anger that the
child is releasing or that weallow the child to release or we
(25:19):
feel in the moment.
So we don't have to be afraid ofthe, the, the sadness.
Depression is really a lot ofsadness.
We don't have be afraid of thefear either.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
And also the anger from my own life is, and I've
seen this, is that I get mad, myanger erupts when I see someone
doing something I don't allowmyself to do.
Yeah.
And it's usually with respectto, to repairing Oh, interest.
Allowing, allowing myself tolove those little pick
peccadillos about myself.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Like what, like, like when did you notice like
somebody else was doingsomething and it activated
Speaker 3 (25:53):
You, um, acting out or speaking or, um, a, a primary
one that I, I think I'vementioned this on a prior
podcast, was when I was visiting, um, one of my husband's family
and their kids were running inthe hallway in a very long, long
hallway making tons of noiseand, and having fun, you know,
(26:13):
just being kids Yeah.
Five year olds Yeah.
In the house.
And I remember my, my motheryelling at me, don't run in the
house.
You can't run in, go outside torun, go outside.
We don't, we don't run in thehouse.
We had inside voice and we haveinside behaviors mm-hmm.
and running in thehouse is not permissible.
Mm-hmm.
.
And here I was watching thesekids be freely allowed to run in
the house.
(26:34):
And so I got mad mm-hmm.
at them.
Mm-hmm.
.
But really it was my little girlinside saying, how come they get
to run?
And I didn't
Speaker 2 (26:41):
.
Yeah.
It that's interesting.
Right.
That's a good example.
I know.
Um, one of mine is I watched,well my brother, my dad, I've
talked about this before.
He died when I was 21.
So a lot of important passages.
He wasn't there for it.
He had suffered from poor mentalhealth before that.
So I was standing on the collegecampus with my niece and my
brother who had actually takenher there to show her around and
(27:04):
familiarize her with the campus.
And at first the first thoughtwas, oh, she's such a baby.
I mean, I went to University ofTexas by myself.
I didn't need parents there towalk me around.
I didn't anybody to familiarizeme.
And I felt really judgmental andseparate from them.
Yeah.
And then as I let my heart in, Irealized I felt jealous.
(27:27):
Yeah.
Because my brother took aninterest in his daughter and she
was going to university and mydad, he was just sort of like a
World War ii.
Went to the, you know, didn'tget to go to university and he
wasn't around for it.
So I felt when I, I realized I'dseparated myself.
I had a, a need to be shepherdedand encouraged to go to
(27:48):
university that I did not getRight.
In fact, there was some reliefwhen I dropped out with his
mental health and then I wentback.
But I realized I had disowned itto that extent.
Yeah.
Like it, I don't need it.
And,
Speaker 3 (27:59):
And those moments well only come if we allow them
to.
Yeah.
That sense of realize being inconversation with anger mm-hmm.
and saying, it'sokay.
I'm, I'm capable of having theseconversations.
I'm I'm not gonna judge myself.
It's not, I'm not gonna burn.
You know, I'm not gonna, it, itis that sense of decom
(28:23):
decompression.
It's like I can handle this andit, it really is a sense of
self-compassion
Speaker 2 (28:29):
And, and it's subcortical behavior.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
And you's rewiring,
Speaker 2 (28:33):
I'm, where am I coming from?
This goes back to John Lee'swork on regression.
When I am triggered, I am notcoming from my wise adult.
I'm coming from my subcorticalregion.
My limbic re place that can onlyrespond is responded when I was
under stress.
It's making decisions for me.
(28:54):
I'm not making those decisionsanymore.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
And it's pre-verbal.
Sometimes it
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Can be very pre-verbal.
I mean kicking and hitting andswearing and spitting and
locking ourselves.
Sweating away.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Sweating, sweating and getting headaches and upset.
Tummies and irritable bowelsyndromes.
Mm-hmm.
.
Mm-hmm.
and just freezing,you know?
And it's like, ah.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Exactly.
I love the face you're making.
When I first learned this, I remember holding two spaces.
One was just a simple awarenessthat I was regressing and I was
gone.
My wold had left the room andthat I was aware of that.
Just that little simple step.
I'd like the listeners toimagine that they can do this.
(29:32):
That when you're our, our, oursubconscious, I just learned
this four times a second cyclesto see if we're safe four times
a second, folks.
So when I can just notice that Imight not be feeling safe
because I have too manyappointments in a day, or I'm
nervous about a presentation I'mgonna be doing or taxes or
(29:55):
whatever it might be that I amnow coming from a place of
regression and I have a style,like you said, that I chose
mm-hmm.
that I learnedvery early and it's gonna click
in.
Yeah.
And I'm coa aware of that, thenI can do some self-regulating.
I can take a deep breath, I canrelease it, I can do another
one.
It's free.
I can pick up a journal or paperand be into write about my
(30:19):
regression.
I can be aware of what it'sdoing as I calm myself.
I just need to know that I'vejust left the
Speaker 3 (30:26):
Building.
Yeah.
And, and what I like to do formyself, and then I've practice
this with others, is, um,exactly where the steps that
you've just said.
Mm-hmm.
in my body, Ilocate that young girl mm-hmm.
and I say thankyou.
Oh nice.
Thank you.
(30:46):
Thank you for getting me here.
Now would you be willing to sitat this table and advise me as
an adult, as a mature woman, howelse I can behave that will
honor your mission mm-hmm.
, and yet let yourest in peace.
(31:07):
Mm-hmm.
mm-hmm.
and be availableif I need you.
Mm-hmm.
.
Mm-hmm.
.
So I'll call you, but for now,can you advise me on what other
behavior is appropriate thatwould represent your mission?
Mm-hmm.
and I do get in, II I'm shown ways of acting and
(31:30):
being and repurposing andreframing.
That's not the four year old.
Mm-hmm.
not the two yearold, not the 12 year old.
Mm-hmm.
.
It's the 67 year old.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
I love that cuz I mean, I think what you're really
doing is, is basically trustingif the child isn't very
activated, that they may have aninnate wisdom that you're gonna
tap into.
They don't have to scream it orhide.
They may just be saying in mybody, I don't feel safe right
now, or I need more quiet time,or I need to be fed.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
And they've been doing the job for a long time.
Yeah.
So they have some brownie pointsand um, I liken it to remember
when you were four and you worea pair of shoes that you loved
mm-hmm.
or a sweater thatyou just, that was you.
Mm-hmm.
.
So bring it with you and, andthose pair of shoes you wear,
that sweater you bring along andthen all of a sudden you're,
(32:21):
wherever you are in youradulthood at 67.
Can I put on those shoes?
Will they fit mm-hmm.
, will the sweatercover me?
No, it's appropriate for a fouryear old, it's not appropriate
for an older woman,
Speaker 2 (32:35):
But we appreciate the four year old Absolutely.
For having that sweater.
Yeah.
And maybe we do Yeah.
Need to understand we need somemore warmth.
Yeah.
And grounding, but not in theway a child would
Speaker 3 (32:46):
Do it.
No.
Mm-hmm.
.
So, um, RKI has a, has a, um, a,a a quest that I keep, uh, close
to me and he says, be patienttoward all that is unresolved in
your heart.
Mm-hmm.
and try to lovethe questions themselves.
Mm-hmm.
Like locked rooms and like booksthat are written in a very
(33:09):
foreign tongue.
Do not now seek the answers,which cannot be given you
because you would not be able tolive them.
Mm-hmm.
.
And the point is to liveeverything.
Live the questions.
Now perhaps you will thengradually without noticing it
live along some distant day intothe answer.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Mm-hmm.
, that's beautiful.
That implies faith in theprocess.
Yeah.
It applies great faith that whenwe can accept, go back to the
bottom of what you wrote forwhere there is acceptance.
I'm on a journey of the soul.
I'm learning a lot about whereI've been and when I can accept
that leads me to love includingself-love.
Absolutely.
(33:54):
Oh,
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Beautiful.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
And that concludes this week's episode of the Soul
Path Sessions podcast withDeborah Mikes Pearson and Brenda
Littleton.
If you'd like to hear more aboutliving more soulful Life, please
subscribe to our channel on yourfavorite podcast app and be sure
to check out the show notes inlinks below.
For more information fromDeborah, visit soul sessions com
(34:25):
and for brenda brenda littletoncom Thank you for listening and
remember to follow your soul.
Welcome to the Soul Path Sessions podcast with
Deborah Minds Pearson and BrendaLittleton.
Brenda is an educator andcounselor rooted in YY and
ecopsychology.
She helps her clients understandthe importance of the mind,
body, spirit, and earthrelationship for healing.
Deborah is a licensedpsychotherapist and has been
trained in traditional andsacred psychology, exploring
(00:31):
from the ground up what makesour human experience meaningful,
wholesome, and enlightening.
Deborah and Brenda invite you toaccompany them on a soul path
journey as they explore thepossibilities of living them a
soulful life as therapists,seekers, and lovers of fate.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Welcome back to Soul Path Sessions.
I'm here with my dear friend andcolleague, Brenda Littleton, and
this is Deborah Mites Pearson.
And today we're going to addressthe soul of relational repair.
And we're gonna jump in thewater with something that you,
Brenda, have, are, have writtenabout that's beautifully
(01:13):
written, and I'd like you toread it and then we can examine
what you've actually are tryingto communicate here.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Okay.
Thanks, Deborah.
Um, this is a piece that's kindof a preamble to a program that
I have.
And, uh, I, I needed to findsome basic guidelines, uh, by
which to contain how we repairand move forward in life.
And so it starts as long asthere is judgment, there is
(01:40):
separation.
As long as there is separation,there is denial.
As long as there is denial,there is anger.
As long as there is anger, thereis depression.
As long as there is depression,there is anxiety.
As long as there is anxiety,there is panic.
(02:03):
All of these theories are hereto guide you back to acceptance
for where there is acceptance,there is self-love.
We start with self-love.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Wow.
Sounds like a recipe.
put in it.
And so, and then it, and then itbrings us back with like
judgment and denial and angerand depression and anxiety and
panic, things that we can allrelate to.
(02:38):
And then it becomes verygenerous and it says, these are
Furies, a very mythic way ofputting this, uh, these
conditions we all suffer from,and that they have a medicinal
purpose, that they actuallyguide us back to acceptance.
So I'd like to give you someroom to help us with these
things that you reposition as
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Helpers.
Yeah.
I, I, I have, um, I belief thatanxiety is my best friend.
Hmm.
Um, that depression is my bestfriend.
Mm-hmm.
Um, my manic comes to visit me,you know, and so I host it and I
I do not try and eliminate it.
And these are all of our, ourforms of orphans.
(03:22):
Matt Lakota talks about our, ourorphans mm-hmm.
rehomed.
And they don't want to be toldthat they are not good enough
and that they have to change andmorph and be regenerative, and
that they are in themselvesenough.
Mm-hmm.
And, and so anxiety is one ofthose orphans.
(03:45):
Mm-hmm.
anxious, um, I realize if I stopand I say, okay, anxiety is
here, how is it in my life?
How is it formed in my liferight now?
And I go through, identify howanxiety lives mm-hmm.
similar little experience, but Idismissed it.
(04:07):
Mm-hmm.
I said, I can, I can workthrough this mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
present and allowing us to payattention to it.
It wants to be, it wants to beincluded.
Mm-hmm.
(04:27):
Mm-hmm.
So one of the ways that we keep,uh, in relationship with anxiety
is de is denying it.
Mm-hmm.
but if we do allow a sense of,uh, communication, a, a
(04:48):
conversation, a sense of trustmm-hmm.
And yes, we have all of thisinner cultural, outer societal
and the world is going on, buthow we allow this to be, to seep
into our lives has been reframedand, and, um, curated from being
(05:09):
a child, you know, from ourfamily of origin mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
dismissed.
And, um, and we were taught todismiss our needs mm-hmm.
And so we bring that with usforward, and so mm-hmm.
(05:30):
it Yeah.
Um, it was about identifyingYeah.
There, these are the stages thatif we, we don't have to go back
to the original wound, we canjump in and listen and be in
conversation with and learn totrust that we can, uh, listen to
these aspects of ourselves thatthey mm-hmm.
(05:51):
repair and recover.
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
thinking of, uh, the work I doand the work both on myself and
with my clients, and it has alot to do with how we adapted to
, to wounds and separation andjudgment.
Use your words.
How we adapted to judgment as achild, um, coming from our
(06:16):
family or our extended family orour, our community.
Um, we felt separate and I, andwhen we felt separate, we may be
in denial of that because yougotta fit in.
Yeah.
And in that denial, we may justhave this low level of
self-rejection and fear, whichcan turn into anger and that can
(06:38):
depress our life energy andcause us anxiety.
And the therapies that I foundreally helpful when you're
talking about hosting, um, or,or creating room would be
therapies like internal familysystems or voice dialogue where
you literally go into the bodyand find where it's painful and
(06:59):
imagine it as an inner child ora wound and create, like,
intentionally create a voice forit.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Yeah.
As a protector, somebody whohelped you when you're growing
up.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it, they are there.
They, I mean, those arecompensation skills that do keep
the ego, um, the ego createsthese to allow us to move
forward in our lives and notYeah.
Because at the time we, we were,we did not have the language to
articulate.
We perhaps weren't even aware ofhow to understand the feelings
(07:28):
that we were having mm-hmm.
So it's pre-verbal mm-hmm.
And that's why somatic therapyis a big part of
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Into the body.
Yeah.
And then the stories that comeup from the body.
Yeah.
So this idea that, um, that wecan dialogue, create some room
to say hello, little three yearold memory, um, you couldn't
really answer back to mom or dador you, or you couldn't tune it
(07:56):
down.
So you adapt it and then you hadto do that.
Uh, we now have a term calledmicroaggressions.
So maybe we weren't hit orlocked in a closet, but we may
have felt overwhelmed day afterday after day after day after
day.
And then we, we tuned ourselvesto it.
And my way of being dealing withoverwhelm would probably be to
(08:18):
hide.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and or my way of dealingwith, uh, underwhelmed that
you're ignoring me would mightbe to reach out and try to get
your attention.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Act out.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Uhhuh
extremely resilient.
These what we call unhealthyselves that maybe judge and
separate are also and deny theykept us here.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Absolutely.
They created a world that wecould survive in, in a world
that we had very little power.
Mm-hmm.
And, um, we brought thosedefense mechanisms or
compensations or patterns alongwith us on the developmental
scale as we became teenagers andyoung adults.
And as we move through life, andusually we're quite happy with
(08:59):
them until we realize the endresult keeps repeating and we're
not really happy with the endresult.
Mm-hmm.
And so what, what does thatmean?
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, if I could David reRico, who, who's quite pro
prolific in his books, but hehas a quote that I like.
It's like, our problem is notthat his children, our needs
were unmet, but that as adults,they are still unmoored
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Un mourned the word mourning.
Yeah.
Like grief work.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Yeah.
Grief work.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And that, um, and, and this tiesin with Matt Lakatos work as
well, is that when we have thesemoments of grief and we separate
from them cuz life goes onmm-hmm.
the, the language to dwell.
We didn't come to the dinnertable and say, gosh, mom, I had
(09:47):
a really good day at school andcan we talk about my grief
mm-hmm.
You know, we, we, we just don'tlive in a culture,
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Especially if there's no room for that.
No.
If, if there's nobody there to,to hold it, as you would say.
And I think this idea, um, whatmakes us work so challenging, I
think individually for, for allof us is the sense we're doing
it in a vacuum.
And in my own experience, Ineeded to be in a therapeutic
(10:17):
loving environment with a wiseadult who would point out to me
that I was compensating, I wasjudging or separating or denying
and gimme a framework tounderstand that what I had
missed.
Because a lot of us don't, it'sfamiliar.
Families are familiar.
So for if our parents tell usthey'll love us if we're super
(10:39):
athletic, or they'll tell usthat we're, we're not worth
their time because they'readdicted and missing, um, we
don't really have good modelsmm-hmm.
So this self-love that you talkabout in the last line, um, to
me that's a real reflection ofbeing valued.
(10:59):
And the therapeuticrelationship, one of the things
it can provide is just the,first of all, you value yourself
enough to sign up for it.
And then the therapist or thehealer holds space for you is if
you mattered.
And is if the parts of you thatadapted to your inevitability,
uh, inevitabilities in yourfamily of origin was went
(11:23):
through a patient process foryou to, to appreciate you.
Yeah.
You, the little soner in yourfamily trying to cope with too
much or not enough and needs tobreak into the realization of
that and holds a place of theadult saying, how did that,
that's, that's neglect or that'sabuse.
(11:43):
Mm-hmm.
It's just what you adapt to.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Especially if you adapt in a way that is viewed as
being, um, exemplary mm-hmm.
So all of a sudden you're inyour forties or fifties or
sixties and you realize whatyou've valued because you've
been told that you're valuablebecause of the skill that you
developed at compensation.
It's also a hindrance.
It's, it's also a sense of, um,a contributor to your ongoing
(12:14):
patterning that's causing youdeep grief.
Yeah.
Um, such as in my own life being, um, you know, my life was, as
a kid it was very competitiveand, um, my parents made sure
that I had, that they, that theywanted, that they wanted to know
that they were giving meeverything possible that they
never had.
(12:34):
So it was highly, you know, likeall the private schools and the
activities and the events and,and all I wanted to do is my way
of compensating was to go intomy room and read a book mm-hmm.
became my compensation.
And so reading meant that Iended up being a really good
(12:57):
student.
Mm-hmm.
you know, a collector of degreesmm-hmm.
do this cuz you're really goodat being a student, if you just
do this, you'll be okay.
Mm-hmm.
And eventually it's like afterdoing it and realizing I'm still
not okay.
Yeah.
There's still deep grief here.
(13:18):
There's deep, there's workthat's preventing me, there's
work to do that I haven't donethat's preventing me from
getting where I wanna be.
Yeah.
And no matter how good a studentI am, it's not gonna be enough.
Um,
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Well it has to do with not connecting.
I mean, one of the things thatTerry Real is talking about in
his book Us, which I love, andI'm gonna read again because I,
it's just making such a goodpoint where we connect is not
being better than or worse thanit's being us.
The name of his book.
It's feeling you're not eventhinking about the connection.
It's just comfortable.
(13:51):
You're part of us, we care aboutyou, we are just the way you
are.
You're just here and there's,you have no more value or less
value than any other human onearth and you don't have to
worry about that.
And he makes a further pointthat our culture is just soaking
in a patriarchal view of, uh,that we are constantly gotta be,
(14:15):
uh, in a position approvingourselves to some model that we
can never achieve.
And it's inherently damaged ourparents mm-hmm.
And for us to really take astrong look at how rarely when
we're in this journey to getahead, we're really stopping
(14:35):
mm-hmm.
Like as if there's some sort ofsafety in the next and none in
the moment.
So to me, self-love is love on a, on a deeper level appreciation
for the journey I've beenthrough and the appreciation for
the journey you've been on.
So I can be in love with you andyou can be in love with me and
(14:57):
our shared experience.
Cuz the minute it's held outthere that I've gotta do
something to earn it, I am lost.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Yeah.
What's that outside validation?
It's, it's lost.
It's that search for chronicoutside validation.
It's,
Speaker 2 (15:12):
We're so, it's so pervasive that now with TikTok
culture now many likes, itcontinues on and I'm sitting
here in this little studio withyou and I'm looking at myself on
a screen up here in my kayak andthinking when I'm in my kayak,
I'm alone.
I'm not compared to anything,I'm connected to nature.
When I'm having the bestconversation with you, we're not
(15:34):
trying to achieve anythingmm-hmm.
And that's, that's that warmthand that forgiving environment
mm-hmm.
Of compassion.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
Compassion and self-love and the sense of it's,
it puts you in a differentplatform to be in relationship
with another as opposed to whenwe are so addicted and we don't
even know why we're drivingourselves to, to crave outside
validation because, um, ayoungian term is so within us
(16:06):
without, and if, when I, when Ihear a client say, you know, I
really, all I want is to beloved, I hear them saying, all I
need to do is love myself.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
quote by saying, um, the idea ofof going back and, uh, really
grieving, uh, not eliminating,um, not preventing that
(16:30):
self-love, but but going in andgrieving as a form of cleaning
and clearing and accepting andholding and rehoming those
orphans.
Mm-hmm.
So that all of the, the unmetbusiness, um, all those, those
love letters to ourselves arecompleted.
Mm-hmm.
And, and that we then have adifferent foundation.
(16:51):
And I say this deep grief, willalchemically convert the
insatiable longing to be lovedinto visceral self-love.
Mm-hmm.
repair, this place of self-love,we don't attract nor let in
(17:12):
perpetrators of pain, snipers ofsoul, people who will eat your
energy and suck you dry.
There is just no way they canmake it through your gates of
self-love.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
I love that.
And you know, one of the ways Iwork with that, um, with my
clients when they're, whenthey're saying, why did I get
stuck with a narcissist again?
Um, when they're, when they dothe inner work and we go back
through decision making memoriesas a kid, you know, when I gave
myself up and I had to hide inmy room and I couldn't talk to
(17:47):
you, and we create thisenvironment where they close
their eyes and go in and makecontact in the interview, the
interview
Yeah.
And then naturally what happensis they begin to pay attention.
There's a consciousness in us.
Like when you see a puppy and itneeds these help across the
(18:07):
street, it's sort of a naturaldesire to help mm-hmm.
And once that connection ismade, there's an internal
protectiveness compassion thatis very parental.
Wow.
And so, as we retrieve theselost puppies, these inner
orphans, there is a naturalprotectiveness that starts to
develop, which we call the innerparent.
(18:28):
And so when that person goes outinto a dating atmosphere,
they're highly aware of the waythey were wounded and lost and
orphaned.
And if someone does not careabout them or steps on their
feelings, they're much moreinclined to be the first witness
of that.
Mm-hmm.
And to take a step back and say,I deserve better than that.
(18:52):
Um, are you good enough for me?
Becomes the question not, am Igood enough for you?
Are you present enough?
Are you human enough?
Are you grounded enough?
Look at the words I'm using.
Not not like you're the perfectmate in sense of like, I have
parabolic stance, but are you atrue human being?
Are you able to be wise andgrounded and protective of both
(19:18):
of us and interested in both ofus?
And that to me seems like the,the ultimate repair when we go
out into the dating world.
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
And safety.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
And, and having what
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Am I safe for you?
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Yeah.
And well, am I safe for you?
This, this, um, leads me intoresponding when a client says,
well, I'm just gonna let it allgo.
I, I, you know, I, there's justtoo much to work on.
I'm just gonna do better.
I'm gonna show up.
I'm not gonna dwell, you know,it's that, um, denial again.
And I say, and to addressanother perspective when there
(19:54):
is a system of denial,avoidance, resistance,
repression going on within ourown self.
Mm-hmm.
wounds, our pain, we contributeto contaminating our partner's
love for us.
Mm-hmm.
(20:15):
our psychological, emotional andphysical energy is thick smog,
we suffocate love.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
I love that idea.
I mean, it's basically, uh, whatyou're saying is I get so
protective what I'm hearing yousay, when I get so protective of
my space, I I have no room foryour space.
I'm protecting my wounded selfand I don't even have the
bandwidth to find out how youreally are doing and what you're
(20:43):
projecting.
So I keep recreating the samesituation
Speaker 3 (20:46):
And hoping that you'll put up
Speaker 2 (20:48):
With it Yeah.
And hoping you'll put up withit.
And I probably am, uh,traumatizing you in the
relationship.
Yeah.
Because very likely if you keeppursuing me and I'm sending out
toxins, uh, very likely you'remy partner is denying
themselves.
So we're, we're having thisrelationship with each other's
(21:10):
wounds.
Yeah.
As opposed to noticing that Idon't feel grounded and I wanna
drop the conversation into thebody and I don't feel safe.
I'm gonna drop the conversation.
And I have this thing I, I workwith clients on, it's called
scary questions where we canactually ask, do you feel
grounded right now?
(21:30):
Cause I'm feeling really wipedout
noticing that, uh, like we'retalking at each other, like just
calling what's going on in theroom?
Because we're more grounded inour feeling like our, we have a
sense of safety in the body.
Mm-hmm.
have, and the other thing is,we're not afraid of our wounds.
(21:52):
That's huge.
If I'm not afraid of my innerchildren because they're just
wounded and they're just waitingfor me to pay attention to the
little snippet that they'regonna show me where they made
that important decision towithdraw or to overwhelm people
and I know how to be present forthem.
I'm not afraid of them anymore.
So when a client says, I don'twanna do inner child work, I did
(22:14):
it back in the nineties orwhatever, like, you don't know
what your body's gonna tell youwhen you close your eyes, it
needs healing.
It's constantly healing like thecells of your body are
repairing.
Yeah.
And your body will give you theimage that's blocking you today
cuz it will resonate.
So you tell me this story abouttoday, close your eyes and ask
your body, where did it comefrom?
(22:34):
When did it originate?
We don't have to spend years intherapy to find
Speaker 3 (22:38):
That.
Right.
It's right there.
Yeah.
The body, the muscle memory,when I say to to clients, it's
like, what's your gut reaction?
You know, it's don't, don'tintellectualize it.
Um, that's, that, that would bere deferring and putting the
burden on ego to come up withthe right answer as opposed to
relying on soul, which is, um,the spirit within the body.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
That's right.
It's attention, it's lovingattention as if you cared that
somebody hurts and somebody hasa neural network to a time when
we made an important decision tonot trust and let's find them.
Let's put down the rope and theflashlight.
Yeah.
Let's pay attention.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
That's why it's so easy to get caught up
intellectually and to spinaround.
Yeah.
And I, I I, I've, I'm reallygood at that myself, you know,
being a purveyor of words and awriter and a teacher of words
and it's like, stop it.
Go into the body and, um, actimagination from a young I
(23:44):
perspective it, it it is, it islike one the key.
It's one of the three stools ofa a three leg of a stool.
Mm-hmm.
imagination, which includeslooking and working with the
images of our dreams, but moreimportantly identifying in the
body where that particularmoment that that friend the, the
(24:06):
anxiety or the panic or theorphan mm-hmm.
Um, and we just deal with themoment.
We don't have to go back intothe lineage.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
No, you don't have to tell a real long story cuz it's
the moment of decision, um, likeyour first line here, as long as
there's judgment, there'sseparation.
So I'm gonna make that longlines of the conversation of
self-love.
When, when we look at the woundfrom, from a soft place mm-hmm.
(24:35):
snippet of memory comes up andwe're allowed to see it and feel
it and bring it in and spendmore time, the separation goes
away.
We're willing to do forourselves what wasn't done for
us back then.
Right.
Which is to just attend.
So what happened, and the thingI always tell my clients is it's
already happened.
You don't have to be afraid ofit.
(24:55):
Mm.
Boots on the ground.
You're here, you're having it,the sense, but we're also, we're
here.
I'm an adult and you're an adultand we're witnessing what
happened to somebody else.
So it already happened.
We bring in the wise adult andthen there's no judgment,
there's no separation, there'sno denial.
There may be anger, but it'sgonna be the anger that the
child is releasing or that weallow the child to release or we
(25:19):
feel in the moment.
So we don't have to be afraid ofthe, the, the sadness.
Depression is really a lot ofsadness.
We don't have be afraid of thefear either.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
And also the anger from my own life is, and I've
seen this, is that I get mad, myanger erupts when I see someone
doing something I don't allowmyself to do.
Yeah.
And it's usually with respectto, to repairing Oh, interest.
Allowing, allowing myself tolove those little pick
peccadillos about myself.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Like what, like, like when did you notice like
somebody else was doingsomething and it activated
Speaker 3 (25:53):
You, um, acting out or speaking or, um, a, a primary
one that I, I think I'vementioned this on a prior
podcast, was when I was visiting, um, one of my husband's family
and their kids were running inthe hallway in a very long, long
hallway making tons of noiseand, and having fun, you know,
(26:13):
just being kids Yeah.
Five year olds Yeah.
In the house.
And I remember my, my motheryelling at me, don't run in the
house.
You can't run in, go outside torun, go outside.
We don't, we don't run in thehouse.
We had inside voice and we haveinside behaviors mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And here I was watching thesekids be freely allowed to run in
the house.
(26:34):
And so I got mad mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
But really it was my little girlinside saying, how come they get
to run?
And I didn't
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Yeah.
It that's interesting.
Right.
That's a good example.
I know.
Um, one of mine is I watched,well my brother, my dad, I've
talked about this before.
He died when I was 21.
So a lot of important passages.
He wasn't there for it.
He had suffered from poor mentalhealth before that.
So I was standing on the collegecampus with my niece and my
brother who had actually takenher there to show her around and
(27:04):
familiarize her with the campus.
And at first the first thoughtwas, oh, she's such a baby.
I mean, I went to University ofTexas by myself.
I didn't need parents there towalk me around.
I didn't anybody to familiarizeme.
And I felt really judgmental andseparate from them.
Yeah.
And then as I let my heart in, Irealized I felt jealous.
(27:27):
Yeah.
Because my brother took aninterest in his daughter and she
was going to university and mydad, he was just sort of like a
World War ii.
Went to the, you know, didn'tget to go to university and he
wasn't around for it.
So I felt when I, I realized I'dseparated myself.
I had a, a need to be shepherdedand encouraged to go to
(27:48):
university that I did not getRight.
In fact, there was some reliefwhen I dropped out with his
mental health and then I wentback.
But I realized I had disowned itto that extent.
Yeah.
Like it, I don't need it.
And,
Speaker 3 (27:59):
And those moments well only come if we allow them
to.
Yeah.
That sense of realize being inconversation with anger mm-hmm.
I'm, I'm capable of having theseconversations.
I'm I'm not gonna judge myself.
It's not, I'm not gonna burn.
You know, I'm not gonna, it, itis that sense of decom
(28:23):
decompression.
It's like I can handle this andit, it really is a sense of
self-compassion
Speaker 2 (28:29):
And, and it's subcortical behavior.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
And you's rewiring,
Speaker 2 (28:33):
I'm, where am I coming from?
This goes back to John Lee'swork on regression.
When I am triggered, I am notcoming from my wise adult.
I'm coming from my subcorticalregion.
My limbic re place that can onlyrespond is responded when I was
under stress.
It's making decisions for me.
(28:54):
I'm not making those decisionsanymore.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
And it's pre-verbal.
Sometimes it
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Can be very pre-verbal.
I mean kicking and hitting andswearing and spitting and
locking ourselves.
Sweating away.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Sweating, sweating and getting headaches and upset.
Tummies and irritable bowelsyndromes.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And it's like, ah.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Exactly.
I love the face you're making.
When I first learned this
One was just a simple awarenessthat I was regressing and I was
gone.
My wold had left the room andthat I was aware of that.
Just that little simple step.
I'd like the listeners toimagine that they can do this.
(29:32):
That when you're our, our, oursubconscious, I just learned
this four times a second cyclesto see if we're safe four times
a second, folks.
So when I can just notice that Imight not be feeling safe
because I have too manyappointments in a day, or I'm
nervous about a presentation I'mgonna be doing or taxes or
(29:55):
whatever it might be that I amnow coming from a place of
regression and I have a style,like you said, that I chose
mm-hmm.
in.
Yeah.
And I'm coa aware of that, thenI can do some self-regulating.
I can take a deep breath, I canrelease it, I can do another
one.
It's free.
I can pick up a journal or paperand be into write about my
(30:19):
regression.
I can be aware of what it'sdoing as I calm myself.
I just need to know that I'vejust left the
Speaker 3 (30:26):
Building.
Yeah.
And, and what I like to do formyself, and then I've practice
this with others, is, um,exactly where the steps that
you've just said.
Mm-hmm.
Oh nice.
Thank you.
(30:46):
Thank you for getting me here.
Now would you be willing to sitat this table and advise me as
an adult, as a mature woman, howelse I can behave that will
honor your mission mm-hmm.
(31:07):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
So I'll call you, but for now,can you advise me on what other
behavior is appropriate thatwould represent your mission?
Mm-hmm.
(31:30):
being and repurposing andreframing.
That's not the four year old.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
It's the 67 year old.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
I love that cuz I mean, I think what you're really
doing is, is basically trustingif the child isn't very
activated, that they may have aninnate wisdom that you're gonna
tap into.
They don't have to scream it orhide.
They may just be saying in mybody, I don't feel safe right
now, or I need more quiet time,or I need to be fed.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
And they've been doing the job for a long time.
Yeah.
So they have some brownie pointsand um, I liken it to remember
when you were four and you worea pair of shoes that you loved
mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
So bring it with you and, andthose pair of shoes you wear,
that sweater you bring along andthen all of a sudden you're,
(32:21):
wherever you are in youradulthood at 67.
Can I put on those shoes?
Will they fit mm-hmm.
No, it's appropriate for a fouryear old, it's not appropriate
for an older woman,
Speaker 2 (32:35):
But we appreciate the four year old Absolutely.
For having that sweater.
Yeah.
And maybe we do Yeah.
Need to understand we need somemore warmth.
Yeah.
And grounding, but not in theway a child would
Speaker 3 (32:46):
Do it.
No.
Mm-hmm.
So, um, RKI has a, has a, um, a,a a quest that I keep, uh, close
to me and he says, be patienttoward all that is unresolved in
your heart.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Like locked rooms and like booksthat are written in a very
(33:09):
foreign tongue.
Do not now seek the answers,which cannot be given you
because you would not be able tolive them.
Mm-hmm.
And the point is to liveeverything.
Live the questions.
Now perhaps you will thengradually without noticing it
live along some distant day intothe answer.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Mm-hmm.
That implies faith in theprocess.
Yeah.
It applies great faith that whenwe can accept, go back to the
bottom of what you wrote forwhere there is acceptance.
I'm on a journey of the soul.
I'm learning a lot about whereI've been and when I can accept
that leads me to love includingself-love.
Absolutely.
(33:54):
Oh,
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Beautiful.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
And that concludes this week's episode of the Soul
Path Sessions podcast withDeborah Mikes Pearson and Brenda
Littleton.
If you'd like to hear more aboutliving more soulful Life, please
subscribe to our channel on yourfavorite podcast app and be sure
to check out the show notes inlinks below.
For more information fromDeborah, visit soul sessions com
(34:25):
and for brenda brenda littletoncom Thank you for listening and
remember to follow your soul.
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