May 9, 2025 • 67 mins
From childhood wonder to professional musicianship, Heather Wolf's journey embodies the essence of authentic expression. Growing up with a profound spiritual connection to nature, Heather recounts the transformative moment when she felt unconditional love emanate from a maple tree in her backyard—an experience that shaped her lifelong devotion to folk wisdom and ancestral traditions.
What makes Heather's path remarkable is her courage to overcome deep-seated vocal shame. Just five years ago, she transitioned from business owner to professional musician, driven by a mission to help others reclaim their voices. "Folk arts can be regular," she explains, challenging our culture's obsession with expertise and perfection. Through her True Voice work, Heather guides people to connect with their authentic expression, recognizing that the voice is a powerful instrument for healing and transformation.
As we navigate what Heather calls a "poly crisis" era—with ecological collapse, social division, and cultural disconnection—she offers a refreshing perspective on hope. Rather than turning away from our planetary challenges, she finds solace in the regenerative cycles of nature. "Hope through the more-than-human world" means reconnecting with wisdom beyond human constructs and remembering that "we are the more-than-human too." This understanding bridges the false separation between humanity and nature, offering a path toward healing our collective wounds.
Throughout our conversation, Heather weaves together insights on authenticity, the wisdom of Indigenous women, and the power of community circles. Her work with Teen Talking Circles, founded by her mother nearly 30 years ago, creates spaces for young people to navigate the natural rites of passage with integrity and support. As she performs her song "Wolf Woman" from her upcoming album "Midnight Hour," Heather's message resonates deeply: it's time we believe we have the right to be our full, wild, embodied selves.
Ready to reconnect with your authentic voice and the wisdom of the natural world? Follow Heather's work at heatherwolflove.com and catch her on tour this July from LA to Vancouver.
Heather Wolf (@heatherwolf) • Instagram photos and videos
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Soul Sisteries.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Sis, that was amazing .
I am so excited to let ourlisteners meet Heather Wolfe,
where we got to talk about youknow kind of hope through her
voice really and others findingtheir voice.
And I'm just going to sharewith the audience that if you
stay tuned you get to hear alittle concert while we're
(00:31):
together.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
I mean, it's so gorgeous, so incredible, so soul
.
Sisteries, this is some goodstuff here.
Everybody Can't wait for you tolisten, join us, for you to
listen, join us.
We're thrilled to be talking toand meeting the lovely Heather
Wolf, who has agreed to spendsome time with us and share with
(00:56):
us her journey.
Heather Wolf is an artist forthe Remembrance of Folk Wisdom,
bruess, true Voice, vocal Guide,singer, musician, storyteller,
facilitatorator and sacredcircle practitioner from the
islands of the Salish Sea.
Heather is devoted to the studyof folk wisdom, traditions and
the remembrance of our ancestralheritages.
Running through her work is aconviction that these arts and
(01:19):
practices, carried by thecollective, belonging to the
whole and forming the vitalfoundation of every healthy
culture, can help us embody oursacred relatedness to other
humans and to the living world.
Heather leads private sessions,retreats and workshops
worldwide, gives mythopoeicritual performances of folk song
(01:41):
and story with the MountainDulcimer, who we hope to hear a
little of, and performs with herbands Witch Pop and Wild
Revival.
She's also the lead trainer forTeen Talking Circles, which we
understand she originated aswell, and welcome, welcome,
heather.
Thank you for joining us.
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
It's a delight.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
It's wonderful to meet you and have you spend some
time with us and I know, justtalking a few minutes before
this, we kind of talked aboutsome things you have going on in
your life and kind of where westarted on our journey and
creating this podcast, andreally what we love to do is
just kind of hear from guestsand having them share with us
(02:25):
kind of what got them to wherethey are in your life, in your
world.
And so listening to thatbiography of you, holy cow, I
mean there's a whole lot goingon there.
I mean this folk wisdom and Iwas reading online about your
sacred circles and the workyou're doing with, you know,
teen girls and just all thisamazing, all these amazing paths
(02:48):
you're taking, and I would lovefor you to just kind of share,
like, what got you starting downthis path and then how you've
kind of veered into all thesedifferent things you're doing.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Yeah, yes, I got to grab this.
I almost want to like give youa peek of my, my altar.
That would really explain a lot.
But I just found this oldpicture of me as a little girl
and this, um, oh my gosh,assignment that I did in seventh
(03:25):
grade.
I was just like, wow, I am theexact same person that I was in
seventh grade.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Authenticity hello.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
A lover of butterflies, the wind and rain
and trees, who finds happinessin friends, family and music.
Who needs music, the wind andtrees, who gives happiness,
friendship and strength.
Who fears insects and war, whowould like to sleep in the
(03:59):
clouds, who would like to growher own wings, who would like to
dance in the light of a fullmoon with the fairies?
Oh, I, I, that, I.
I love to wear rainbow scarves,skirts and dresses, and flower
garlands.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yes, yes to all.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
And for everybody who's listening and you're not
seeing, the photo that Heathershared with us is a beautiful,
wide eyed little girl standingin the trees and all the foliage
, just looking out with wonderand definitely looking as one
with a tree and those branches.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
Maybe that should be my bio.
That should be my bio.
I love it, I just feel yeah, Iremember.
You know.
I don't know what your earliestmemories are, but I think really
around eight years old is, Ifelt like a certain awakening of
my consciousness on a spirituallevel, where I experienced a
(05:02):
tree in my backyard, a mapletree that I really loved.
I felt I was walking by on onesunny day and I felt love reach
out to me through the leaves andbranches of the tree, like it
was a human being that justreached out and put her arms
around me and I felt this bodilyexperience of what I would call
(05:25):
God or the divine,unconditional love.
Yeah, I don't know, it'sactually making me almost want
to cry right now, and it's just.
It was this awakening moment ofsomething that I think children
are born close to, that divine,unconditional essence of life,
(05:47):
which to me is love and graceand wisdom.
And for me, I just recognizedin that moment, through my whole
being, that the living world isa source, is this rich,
unconditional, vast sourcethat's always pouring love out
(06:10):
to us and to life.
Yeah, I think I've always feltvery close with that kind of
magic, the magic of the livingand unseen realm.
To me, this magic, it's notparanormal or supernatural, it's
very deeply natural and um, oneof my dear friends and mentors
(06:31):
and david abram, is a his work.
David abram wrote spell of thesensuous and other books, and
his work really encapsulatesthis, um, but just that magic is
natural and that we are all ofthat magic.
So I, all my life, the, the,these are the things that drew
(06:57):
me nature, music, um, and Ithink it's funny that the bio,
the, the list that I of titles,it feels so silly, I just laugh
every time.
I think it's funny that the bio, the list of titles, it feels
so silly, I just laugh everytime I hear it.
But I think it is coming out ofa place of recognizing that
life is relational and life ismultidisciplinary by nature, in
(07:21):
truth, by nature, in truth, andthat we have a lot of modern
over culture, human constructsaround expertise and separating,
separating um subjects,separating uh, relational
relationality in all ways and Istand for moving.
(07:44):
I would say moving back, butit's also moving forward,
because we're never actuallyreturning to the right,
returning to a remembrance of amore earth-based, original way
of relating with ourselves andlife and um, and so my wish in
(08:04):
the so it's like, being a folkartist means we don't have to be
the greatest at everything wedo.
We do it and we embody it and itcan be simple and it can be
regular, like I have had a hardtime.
It was a little over five yearsago that I had a huge career
shift.
I left a business that Istarted co-founded with my last
(08:27):
husband, and I decided I wantedto become a professional
musician and it was really scarybecause I felt I was pretty old
in the scheme of things tobegin.
You know, throughout my wholelife have dealt with shame and
unworthiness around my voice andexpression, which has brought
(08:48):
me into the work that I do withthe voice, because it's been, it
is and has been my own healingpath.
Yes, and then continues to be.
I'm just, but, um, I justremember the what got.
What got me on stage was justwanting to grant more permission
for more people to embody whatis theirs, to express, to embody
(09:12):
their voice is imperfect andregular, which, like no voice,
is actually ever regular, butfolk arts can be regular.
They're the earth, they're ofthe people.
They don't have to be an expert, institutional master.
You know, master, to do it.
(09:34):
It's a birthright and mecarrying our songs, carrying our
stories, carrying our ownpersonal, embodied knowledge of
how to heal our all these things, that that our folk arts, the
songs, the stories um our ownpersonal relationship with herbs
(09:55):
and rituals all these thingsare birthright and they are in
our lineage they are in each ofour ancestral lineages, which
many of us, especially in whiteculture, have lost.
In white settler culture thatis so much of America, as well
as all the harm that has beenand continues to be perpetrated
(10:17):
on Indigenous people and peopleof color, and I will add, our
trans and queer communities,even more so now.
So all of this cultural loss isto me it's a deeply spiritual
loss, but it's not spirit that'sdisembodied from matter, it's
spirit that's deeply embodied.
(10:39):
So to me it's a wildness.
Yeah, oh yeah.
It's being in touch with awildness.
Yeah, oh yeah.
Yeah, it's being in touch witha wildness that is wise.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
So I just want to say , Heather because this is the
first time that we are allsitting down together You're
speaking our language, so justknow that we are right there
with you.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
You are among soul sisters for sure, yeah, right,
yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
And I'm thinking back to, like our own childhood and
Donna's a few years older thanme and we grew up sharing, you
know, a bedroom and at night shewould sing to me and I thought
she just had the most amazingvoice.
And I think you're still there.
I'm still here.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
Okay, perfect, yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
But she just had the most.
Could you start the?
Speaker 3 (11:26):
story over though.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Yeah, I sure can, yep .
So we grew up together andshared a bedroom and a bed and
you know whether I was scared ornot Donna would sing to me and
there was one song in particular.
I always loved her to sing, butshe would always sing this song
to me and as we grew up shewould discredit her own voice
(11:48):
and say that she didn't know howto sing and that she couldn't
carry a tune, and to me it wasjust the most beautiful,
soothing thing always, and Ithink as an adult she's embraced
her voice through singing andacting and writing, but
certainly allowing herself tosing loudly and proudly.
(12:09):
And so I just I love that.
You share that it's.
We all have this God givenright to use our voice and I
absolutely love that.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Oh, I love that.
I want to hear the song now.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
I sing all the time.
I sing all the time and,believe me, I do not have that,
that to sing well, you just needto be willing to sing out and
(12:47):
to use, you know, use yourinstrument in whatever
capacities and play with that.
So it's become part of the kindof inner knowing and the
teaching of that one aspect ofmy life.
I so relate to so much of whatyou're talking about here,
heather.
So many things, and one is justthat multi expression of all as
(13:10):
source moves in you and throughyou and outward.
You can choose manifestation orit manifests, and in such a
myriad way, and they're endless,the endless possibilities.
And what can you talk a littlebit about?
Like, what is that?
Oh gosh, what am I even getting?
(13:31):
Like, what is at the heart ofthat for you?
What's at the root of it?
Where do you determine in whichway to move, in which way to
experience or grow?
However you want to take thatquestion, yeah, such a good
question.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
There's like I want to take that question.
Yeah, such a good question.
There's like I want to respondto something you said earlier
and I want to respond to that?
um, both okay, so I might askyou to re-ask the question, but
in terms of the of a folk songand music, I just wanted to tag
that we think of folk song andmusic, as you know, not
(14:08):
well-trained or regular, notvery sophisticated.
But if we look into thetraditions of the people's music
around the world I mean Africa,just as an example, but also
Indonesia, like all over theworld we're talking about, just
(14:37):
like mythology or folklore orritual, all of it place that,
the, the complexity and the umdelicacy is actually astounding.
And when it, when people areable to grow up in cultures
where we'll just use music anddance as an example, but it goes
(14:58):
into all the different artforms where music and dance is
broad, where we grow up, aswhere music and dance is broad,
where we grow up, as where musicand dance is part of life
collectively, that we are allconstantly in a polyphonic song
of existence with humans andbeyond, with so much more than
(15:32):
humanity, and the more that Imean, and that's where so many
of our languages of the worldhave emerged out of
communication with animals andforces of nature, elementals.
right, it's actually throughthis.
There's a word in Sanskrit wordcalled yukti, and it's like the
(15:54):
specific coming together of somany different forces and
factors and beings.
That creates the specificity ofform, and we can think of
language or folk song, folk taleand myth as these yukti
convergences and so that's whyit's also so exciting to me is
(16:18):
that I'm part of that are somuch bigger than me that are
happening right now of peoplerecognizing the importance of
folk practice and re-engagingand re-reviving, and then our
skill set starts to grow it'sfermentation.
I started a fermentationcompany with my former husband
(16:41):
and third, a third partner, iggy, about almost 10 years ago now,
and ferment.
You know, the birth offermentation, um, is a perfect
example of that, the rebirth ofthe firm of home fermentation
practices.
So I just wanted to, I justwanted to asterix that it's a
very, very exciting potential.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
yeah yeah, absolutely .
You know, and, as you're, itreminds me, because I had asked
you prior to this discussionabout your hope through.
We generally have a little taghere of hope through whatever it
is that our guest wants to talkabout, and you had to but one
of them speaks directly to whatyou were just talking about,
(17:22):
which is that hope through themore than human, and I love that
.
You just led to that verynaturally.
Is there anything else youwould like to say about that?
I feel it's so rich.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
I will, yeah, and then I want to answer your
previous question so potent, soI would say hope, through the
more than human world, um, inthat, uh, we, we can live most
of our lives and if we're notcareful it can swell the amount
(18:05):
of our lived, our car, the um,the civilization and um
metropolis, towns, cities, and,and, and then our consciousness
as well, what we think about,how we interpret um, our whole
psychology, right, everythingcan be very human centric, and I
(18:27):
would say that that's at theroot of most of our problems
collectively, yeah, and we, welose touch with, with one, what
really matters, and two, withjust all the wisdom that is here
for us, and it's wisdom on manylevels.
(18:49):
You know, I just moved toPortland recently and I found a
house with friends that's inForest Park, so I get to go out
walking on trails almost everyday and it's changing me.
It's so important um step outinto nature, our balance, our
(19:10):
wisdom, our grace, ourwell-being starts coming back
yeah and then beyond that.
So there's, there's ineffable,there's ineffable, um, I would
say like setting us right, yeah,ineffably, that happens.
And then there's also verytangible ways that nature
teaches us by the.
(19:31):
You know the work, um, uh, thework of biomimicry.
Oh, my gosh, her name is on thetip of my tongue.
Well, anyway, it's not.
It's not with me right now, butif you're, janine Benning, okay
.
So I had the privilege ofbecoming friends with Janine
Benning last year at Bioneersconference, and her work on
(19:51):
biomimicry is so important andessentially looking at how we
can mimic bias, we can mimic theliving world, um, to create
healthier, more intelligentsystems of doing things as
humans.
So I really feel like, for me,hope is in the immediate sense.
(20:15):
And then the last thing I'd sayabout that is being in this
moment that we're in, which, tome, feels like a crisis, of a
poly crisis I heard that termrecently and I don't know who
coined it, but the crisis on somany different dimensions, poly
crisis yes and you know in theanthropocene, the, you know the
(20:40):
era of of human centricity thatis causing the next mass
extinction, like we are in anera of endings of the world.
We don't know what that willlook like, but there's no
denying that we're in an era ofdying and death, and yes massive
species and life loss andsystemic collapse.
(21:04):
This feels like the ending era,dying you know, yeah, mass
extinction.
And so when, for me, within therealities of this, I find hope
through the life, death, lifecycle of the living world yes
and, yeah, recognizing that,even though we're living in
(21:27):
human made catastrophes, we arealso living in a world and an
existence where life is thelarger story, like spring is
still happening, yeah, in fullmagnificent bloom.
That when you get outside, yourwhole being is enveloped and
(21:48):
overwhelmed by that truth.
But if we stay inside with ourhuman-made devices, our whole
being is enveloped andoverwhelmed in that truth and,
at the end of the day, that is abig truth that affects all of
life.
But it actually isn't the endof the story.
I do believe that humans willprobably kill ourselves off
before we destroy life, likebefore the world stops living.
(22:12):
There's ways, there's mass,massive power of regenerativity,
that that the living world hasthe ability to consume and eat
death and bring it back into herbody and give birth again to
life through the material death.
I mean fecundity.
Really that word encapsulatesthat, that truth.
(22:36):
The fungal realm, you knowflora, fauna, funga, the kingdom
of funga, and and microbesteaches us that on such a
fundamental level.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
So to me, yeah, and that's my closest understanding
of God, and we could talk forhours and hours and days on just
these few sentences here,because everything you're saying
here for for me, this is whereall depth and all life and all
(23:08):
truth and all the all exists andmove through through this um,
it was good, sit around thecampfire, talk.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love it letthe fire talk to us and let the
fire talk it's interestingmentioning all of this just a
little quick, little aside.
Yesterday I was speaking withsomebody who's going through
(23:31):
some real pain physical painexperiences right now and is um
doing a lot of release of someold stuff, and I was encouraging
him to get out into the worldand go connect and he did.
He went for a walk and reminded, like you know, and talk to the
trees while you're there andsee what they have to say for
you, and he came back sorejuvenated and energized in
(23:56):
that conversation in that shorttime but, my goodness, much um
healing um possible and actuallyI do want to, but I there's one
more thing I want to say onthis, which is, I think, part of
the wounding, that part of thethe remembrance is recognizing
(24:16):
that we are not.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
We are the more than human too yes we are.
We are human, and we are somuch more than human as well.
We're nine tenths non-humancell, right you know?
Yeah, we are colonized bycolonies of cultures, and then
(24:39):
also, um, you know, in anon-biological sense too, and so
, for me, hope through the morethan human world also means to
me that I and that we are, weare, we have a living
relationship with what is morethan human in us.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Yes, yeah, amen to that.
Yeah, yeah, I'm thinking thatcan get us a way down another
path too, if we wanted to gothere.
So there are so many thingsthat you're talking about,
heather, I'm like, okay, let meask you about that, let me ask
you about this.
So I'm going to backtrack alittle bit, because you had
talked about, I guess, findingyourself and through your voice,
(25:20):
and really I think you said itwas like five years ago where
you stepped into this kind ofnew world of just using your
voice in any way that you could.
And then you've also startedthis your is it called the True
Voice series where you helpother people find their voice
and use their voice, and I thinkyou said you don't have to have
(25:43):
like a musical voice to findyour voice, you don't have to be
skilled at the scales and allof that, right?
So can you share a little bitabout what that is, because that
to me sounds very hopeful tofind my voice and be able to use
my voice in, maybe, ways that Ihaven't.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Yeah, I'd love to talk about that Also.
I don't know where you'd editthis in, but if you'll excuse me
, I still want to answer thatquestion.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Oh, stop.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Yes, let's go back to it and then let's tag that one
Cause.
I would really love to talkabout this.
Yes, um.
So I think, donna, you askedwhere do I source?
Yes, what.
How do I find where to thepurpose?
Yeah, yes, what.
How do I find?
Speaker 1 (26:24):
where to it's the purpose, yeah, and and that,
that calling at that moment andthat direction, absolutely yes.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
And that was just such a powerful question, and I
feel like that is a question myfriend asked me recently.
She asked me how I'm so curious.
She said what your soul asks ofyou and and do you respond?
How do you respond?
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Boy, there is a potent question.
There's such a beautifulquestion.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
I'm blessed to know some pretty incredible people,
and so she asked me thisquestion and I think it's very
related with yours how do Ishape the work that I do in the
world and or just how I live mylife?
And I would say that, goingback to the very beginning of
sharing the story of myself as alittle girl, my wish has been
(27:15):
from a pretty young age.
I have felt very connected withauthenticity and integrity and
courage.
I would say those are valuesthat I have consciously held to
from a young age and even Ithink early influences were like
the Dead Poets Society, thatgreat film or the DM and growing
(27:41):
up in talking circles where wewere really invited to share on
a deep level in an authenticspace, and for me, the whole
idea of conformity as I was ayoung person growing up and
socializing, realizing the playof social pressure and pushing
(28:02):
to conform, I mean I think Ialways felt different and weird
and I felt a kind ofrebelliousness around it too,
like a righteousness, like noone's going to make me conform.
As I became an adult, itshifted more towards.
My prayer is may I incarnatefully in this lifetime.
(28:26):
And really bring forth what'smine to live forth and to
express and to embody.
May I incarnate in thislifetime.
That is a scary prayer, yeahthat is a powerful one.
That prayer has pushed me andcompelled me to take huge steps
(28:51):
yeah my comfort zone it's.
It's required immense amountsof courage um and loss.
There's this great line someonetold me recently your, your new
life will cost you your old oneisn't that the truth?
yeah, and damn, do I feel that.
Yeah, and so for me it has beena lot about having the courage
(29:16):
and the honesty with myself toanswer my soul's call.
Yeah, but it's not an easything to do and I even like, to
this day, it's like it hasrequired me to continually meet
my loss of vision, my grief, mydoubt, my questioning, like,
(29:40):
well, was the choice truly madefrom a soul, truth, or was the
choice made from some otherkarmic knot that I have to work
out?
Like we're all so fools andwe're going to be, we're going
to be jumping off cliffsthinking that we're doing the
wise choice, and maybe we are.
Maybe we aren't like it's justlike the zen, the zen truth of
(30:04):
like.
We don't know.
We're in a lived experience atany moment.
I wish I could tell this storyjust off my tongue, but I'm sure
you know the zen koan, whereit's like he, he, you know this.
This fool jumps off the cliff,he's headed down to the bottom,
he gets hooked on a on a branch.
There's a lion that's likeroaring up about to bite him,
(30:25):
but then there's like justwithin reach is a perfect berry,
and you know, it's like.
We are just always sort of inthis space of not knowing, did I
?
Is it good, is it bad?
Speaker 1 (30:37):
is it right?
Speaker 3 (30:37):
wrong like that's.
That's the fool, that's thedivine humor of it all.
We really don't we can't takeourselves too seriously to think
that our lofty visions areinfallible.
Right where I feel deeplyfallible, deep fool um right but
.
But.
So when I put together, though,what is of?
What is my joy, what is my,what passion?
(31:00):
What lights me up?
What?
Where does my love and joyflourish?
Where does my vitality rise up?
Where is my pleasure anddelight, you know, and what I
care about most?
And how does that meet serviceto a greater vision of wholeness
?
And how does that meet my lovefor others, my love for life, my
(31:23):
love for the collective and asense of vision and and values?
And so where?
Those where those things meet,uh, my own fulfillment and joy,
and calling um and in alignmentwith values for what's greater
than myself?
you know, and for me that reallyis a well what I think, because
(31:45):
I've I've asked a lot.
What is my specific incarnation, then?
And it is so much aroundembodiment of relationality, the
delicious delight of sensuousexistence that I feel is
actually the kind of food forthe soul that we need to live a
(32:07):
good life.
And it just so happens there'sa lot of healing and repair work
that needs to be donecollectively from the
overcultures that most ofhumanity not all of humanity,
but a lot of humanity iscertainly the dominant modern
world.
There's a lot of undoing andunconditioning that, I think,
(32:28):
keeps us from the very simpletruths of how to live in right
relation with life, how to makea living, how to make a living.
And I just want to name thatsome of my greatest inspirations
for the voices to listen to atthis time are Indigenous women.
I had the privilege to be atBioneers Conference last year
(32:51):
and to listen to a panel ofindigenous women speak about
rematriation rematriation of theland, rematriation of culture,
and so I have my tiny littlevoice and my tiny little being
to contribute.
But I feel that the leadersthat we need to be listening and
(33:11):
following the guidance of areIndigenous women and they hold,
these women especially holdwisdom, the sense of like, good
sense, which ultimately is quitesimple, but one great line that
Karina Gould, simon of the bayarea, for example, was on the
(33:32):
panel.
She said if you want to knowhow to make sure that everybody
gets enough, ask the mothers, nomatter how limited the
resources are yep oh, mygoodness, and I feel that in my
soul yeah, we're, we're notdoing that collectively.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
We are discounting the mothers, we are discounting
the Indigenous women, we aretrying to silence their voices.
And I love, though, that thereare people like you, heather,
and I'm going to say like Donnaand I also, and kind of the
people we try to associate withas much as possible in raising
(34:13):
those voices.
So, you know, for me, it's notthrough singing, because that's
not, although I do love to singbut it is certainly helping
others find their voice andbeing able to speak up, and, if
not, speaking up for them, yeah,yeah, what?
Speaker 5 (34:30):
I mean by voice, is all-encompassing, yeah, speak up
and if not, speaking up forthem.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
So, um, yeah, yeah, yeah.
What I mean by voice is allencompassing.
Yeah.
As you are referring to.
Yes.
Yeah, and that is the.
To go back to your previousquestion, that is the root of
true voice for me, is reallywhat happens when we are.
We are connected with our ownauthentic voice.
That comes from that centralcolumn of our being and we feel
(34:56):
it.
Yes, we feel those moments whenwe are speaking from our body,
our being, our truth, and weknow, we feel it when we're not.
Yeah, and I do believe that inspeakers and but also in singers
, the singers that move us, atleast move us the most, are ones
(35:17):
where the heart and the soul is, it's coming from there and it
doesn't necessarily need to bethe most perfectly operatic.
Right Again why folk music canbe so transcendent, just as
transcendent and powerful as themost, uh, incredible
classically trained music, whichI don't want to to put down
(35:38):
either.
I have such great respect forclassically trained and created
and highly skilled musicianshipand something song in the work
that I do.
It came out of, honestly.
It began 20 years ago,consciously, although I clearly
from my little poster.
I've loved music and song mywhole life.
(35:59):
But when I was in my around 20,I just I became very aware that
I had a karmic, that I had akarmic, a spiritual, emotional
wound in my throat center aroundvocalization and singing.
I would often cry when I sangdidn't feel like I had a good
(36:19):
voice, I just didn't, I just hada bad voice or something.
And I realized that that wasactually something that I needed
to heal on a spiritual,emotional level.
And I yeah, I was.
You know, I'd been in choirs,musical theater, western singing
, training and for most of mychildhood and I, that form for
(36:39):
me of learning brought a lot ofheadiness, like approaching the
expression from my mental,intellectual state, a lot of
anxiety and control in my body.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
And I knew that that was not what music was supposed
to feel like.
Creation was not supposed tofeel that way, and so I studied
with a lot of different othermodalities and really some of
the most powerful song practicethat I've ever experienced
studying and practicing is inthe Vedic yogic traditions.
So chanting chakras, sanskritmantra, and the time in India
(37:20):
was very important for me onmultiple levels.
I studied Drupad, classicalIndian singing, which is one of
the oldest forms of classicalIndian singing.
Singing, which is one of theoldest forms of classical Indian
singing, and it's just in theform itself.
The divine and the body are notseparate from the music.
They're inseparable.
So they're at the foundationand the core.
(37:41):
So now the work that I do withothers, it's continuing to morph
and grow, but it comes out ofjust walking this path myself
and I I feel that the voice isone of our most powerful
instruments, tools, uh, thatwe've been if we have vocal
(38:05):
cords, um, you know that we'vebeen given this immense, magical
, powerful capacity and tool forhealing our own bodies and a
lot of the practices I do.
I would call it like say thatthey're like in the realm of
shamanic they're primalpractices that are inseparable
from our energetic body and ourphysical body, our emotions.
(38:26):
All of it right and and so itcan be utilized to move and heal
and clear energies, and thenalso the capacity to heal others
or to heal collectives or bringjoy and well-being.
There are times when words justdon't do.
We need a song.
(38:48):
Times of birth, death yeah loveloss like these times, and and
there's something, there's someway in which, when we sing and
when we vocalize in general, Ithink that's why it is so
vulnerable for so many of us,because it's a direct self.
People can say one thing, butif their energy and their
(39:12):
emotion is in a different place,you feel it.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Yes, you do.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
Yeah, for sure.
And then that goes on fromthere into song and form of
music, right.
But even when we're singingthat we're beginning in that
foundational understanding ofthis power.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
Yes, oh, heatherather , the profundity of what you're
saying absolutely gorgeous,thank you my goodness well,
would this be an opportune time?
Would you be willing to play?
Or sing a little at this momentso I'll do.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
I was thinking of doing a song that, um, a piece
of a song that's going to be onthe new album that's coming out
in July.
Oh, I love it that, um, I'mreleasing the first single next
week and then succession ofsingles that it's very exciting.
And I'm doing an album releasetour this July from LA to
(40:08):
Vancouver, where I'll be openingfor an incredible artist named
Cosmo Sheldrake, who, if youdon't know his work, he's you
must check him out, um, becausewe can put him in the notes yes,
gorgeous truly a living legend,and he's yeah, he's remarkable.
So Cosmo is an old dear friendof mine, like a brother to me
(40:30):
and we've been singing together.
Actually, he and his brotherMerlin have been a huge part in
my becoming a singer around thatage that I was really
recognized that I loved to singand I wanted to develop my voice
and we began teaching eachother folk songs and singing in
harmonies.
So it's really a joy and aspecial privilege to be opening
(40:53):
for him and it feels like a fullcircle.
Yeah, my life and I'll bereleasing the album midnight
hour for that tour, beautifulawesome this july.
So this is a song, wonderful,called wolf woman that I wrote,
beginning to turn towards musicand it really me to get through
a hard time, but rich of wolfwomen and all the wolf women of
(41:18):
this world, all genders.
Yeah, yeah, you're a wolf woman, you know you're a wolf woman.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
Yeah, exactly, claim it Uh-huh.
Wolf woman so strong.
Speaker 5 (41:46):
Think of all this time you've been holding on.
It's time you believe you'vegot the right to be.
This life, it's so precious,she's got to be the protectress.
(42:11):
This life, it's so sweet.
She tended with every heartbeat.
Sniff, sniff, sniff.
She'll catch your drift, nomatter how high you are, she
(42:36):
lives Sniff, sniff, sniff.
She'll catch your drift, nomatter how clever you are.
She lives On the high line, onthe low line, on the side line,
(42:57):
on the high line, on the lowline, on the side line, up from
the inside.
She pulls it up from the inside, up from the inside.
(43:17):
She pulls it up from the inside.
Wolf woman so strong, think ofall this time you've been
(43:46):
holding on.
It's time you believe, got theright to be.
Speaker 3 (43:58):
Night Queen, priestess, supreme, don't she
look just like a teeny?
Speaker 5 (44:05):
little thing.
Well, her power runs so deep.
She whispered to you whenyou're asleep Shhh, so strong.
(44:28):
All this time you've beenholding on, it's time you
believe you've got the right tobe me beautiful oh heather gosh.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
Thank you for that oh no beautiful, it was gorgeous
and uh, my goodness, that couldbe.
Um, that could be a theme songfor yes yeah, for what we're
doing we.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
We call us soul sisters, right, but we're
definitely wolf women.
So, yeah, definitely, yeah, Iam.
I am claiming that.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
Yeah, I love it Truly beautiful.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
I could feel that.
I mean that just came rightfrom the belly that was.
Speaker 3 (46:09):
Thank you.
Yeah, it's so funny.
I've been in editing mode forall I hear when I play it is my
other.
I have five part harmony withmyself, so I'm like wait, where
are the other parts?
What am I going to do All theparts at once?
Speaker 1 (46:26):
Well, your through thread was gorgeous.
Truly, that was moving, andthank you for sharing that one.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
Yeah, yeah, well, I just want to ask because I know
we're talking for a while and Idon't know how much time you
have, heather, but I want tomake sure that we get to touch
on your, the teen talkingcircles also, and then I know we
have our rapid fire questionsand some other questions to ask
you on whatever else you want toshare.
But I want to make sure thatyou get to share a little
(46:55):
something with that, because Iknow I think that's been running
for quite a while and you'rethe lead facilitator and I know
you train other people tofacilitate these groups and I
would just love to hear kind ofhow they started and how they've
grown as you stepped away foryour instrument.
We were just talking about,like you know, so many people
(47:16):
trying to silence women's voices, but certainly teen girls'
voices, and um, and to giveadolescents their own voice that
they learn to use when they aremuch younger than all of us,
like how powerful that is.
So if you can share a littlebit, Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (47:36):
And I will say I've had the privilege lately of
working with some preteen girlsin my true voice work, their
songwriting and firstperformance, and it's just, I
mean, I could just cry.
It's so fulfilling and in termsof TTC it's so fulfilling um,
(47:57):
and in terms of ttc team talkingcircles.
I really owe it all to my mother.
She began the project oh, about30 years ago now, um, wow, and
she really out of you know.
I'm sure she spoke on herpodcast a bit about it.
But she really wanted to createa better teen experience for
her daughters myself and and mylittle sister, genevieve and it
began as a focus group that wassupposed to run I don't know a
(48:20):
few months of teen girls andthey were going to use it as a
research to write a book forteen girls and it ended up
turning into the book daughtersof the moon, sisters of the sun,
which is, and a later a bookcalled global uprising, about
youth activism around the world,and and some of the most of the
(48:41):
youth in the circle wanted toshare their story in their own
words.
so that's what the first book is, along with interviews with
incredible female leaders in theworld.
So that happened.
It ended, they wrote the bookand then all the girls were like
well, we still want circle,can't we need?
(49:02):
this and a lot of theirboyfriends at the time were
hearing about circle.
We're curious, and so theystarted to.
They continued it.
It transformed into a nonprofitorganization and I grew up in
talking circles, in gender talks, which were special days where
at that time it was a prettybinary world but where boys and
(49:23):
girls got together and sharedwhat it was like and also took a
look at the gender box.
What are we taught?
It means to be a boy, it notmeans to be a boy and not means
to be a boy, a girl, not a girl,and so it actually was pretty
ahead of its time, in thatregard as well, of really
breaking down gender norms.
(49:45):
So I grew up in the talkingcircles.
I didn't really want anyone toany of my peers to really know
about it.
It was again another thing thatmade me weird.
Until one of my peers to reallyknow about it.
It was again another thing thatmade me weird until one of my
best friends, nora um.
I invited her to circle and shegot so excited about it that she
told everybody.
You know, she told all herfriends don't tell yeah and um
(50:09):
yeah.
And it's amazing, she and Igrew up in circle together.
Talena, who's the executivedirector, is like a sister to me
and one of my best friends froma preteen, and she was in the
first book, first Circle.
So around five or more now,years ago, my mother was really
ready to hand it over and Talenastepped up as executive
(50:30):
director, I stepped up as leadtrainer and I wrote the first
curriculum for the virtualtrainings, along with Nora
Harrington and Emmy Kellogram,who was a facilitator when we
were teens.
And Emily Kello has started TeenTalking Circles for Vashon
(50:52):
Island from Montessori toelementary, middle and high
school youth Intergenerationalmentorship programs.
It's just incredible what she'sdone and we built out a team of
incredible trainers AlexandriaArungare in Utah, who works with
(51:12):
restorative justice and circlework, and this is just what
we've created in the last fiveor more years since my mother
left, but during the life oftalking circles before that,
when Linda was running it, it itwas it's always been a small
but mighty organization andplaces that the circle has gone,
(51:36):
the different um identities andsocial groups that have
received its benefits are greatand I feel like the power of
teen talking circles is thesimplicity yeah actually, but
it's a foundation of, of skillset and an approach that's based
in simplicity and based informatting the work to fit the
(51:58):
individual facilitator andcommunity.
So there's not it's not meant tobe a top down.
It really is around power withand really respecting that the
roots of.
Circle are indigenous from allover the world.
Yeah, again, it's a lineage,it's a piece of our lineage and
heritage and I think it's acraving that we have to
(52:22):
communicate in deep authenticityin a collective space that's
held with integrity and care andkindness from the heart and
deep listening and I and there'sa power to being heard and
received and witnessed by atrusted collective.
That's distinct from thehealing we get from one-on-one
(52:47):
care with a therapist, which hasits role, I believe as well.
Yeah, part of this relationalfabric, and especially as young
people yeah, when it's that agewhen so much social relational
breakdown with other generationsis happening, like yeah and
(53:07):
youth are teens are sostigmatized and misunderstood.
It's where some of our biggesttraumas can happen, because it
is.
I mean, they can happen muchearlier, of course, and often do
, sadly, but it is a naturalrite of passage.
It's a natural time ofinitiation from one
(53:28):
consciousness and way of beinginto another.
And so it bears a presence ofwisdom and it bears a presence
of caring um adults, not tocontrol and lead the way, but to
be present with and hopefullybe able to cultivate contexts
(53:49):
where where the alchemicalinitiatory process can happen in
a healthier way, whereasoftentimes I feel these rites of
passage, youth create them forthemselves, the the edge
experiences because there's acraving and a need for them.
Yeah, um, and although circledoes not, the teen circles does
(54:10):
not focus on specifically ritesof passage, work or rituals
which are in and of themselvespart of my work and the
longevity, the regularity ofrelationship through a span of
(54:37):
time, uh, which I would say thatwe all just really desperately
need lives.
Speaker 2 (54:46):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (54:47):
Heather, it's so interesting, there's so much
that you're talking about that.
Uh, we you and I have so manyparallels in our journey, like I
did years ago, started into theprocess of working with ritual
and rite of passage,particularly with young people,
and just because, for me, myunderstanding of these types of
(55:08):
experiences, that we meet them,they meet us, at a place that
lives below the level oflanguage.
It's something deeply primaland why things, as you know,
commonplaces, you know, walkingacross the stage at graduation
or going through whatever thoseceremonies are, they have so
(55:30):
much meaning and import becauseof what they do at these deep,
these very deep levels.
Anyway, I'm fascinated by whatyou're saying and I think you
and I could talk endlessly, but,yeah, we need to.
We need to move to our nextphase, our next phase of
questions.
Speaker 2 (55:50):
Yep, do you want to jump in?
I think so, heather.
This section, what we do isjust kind of we call it rapid
fire and it's not really rapidand there's no fire.
We just ask you questions andit's kind of like, don't think
about it, just the first thingthat comes to your mind.
If you're willing to share, oh,painful.
Speaker 3 (56:13):
What you were sharing was so beautiful oh, yeah, yeah
, yes completely well, that'swhat I feel about everything
you've shared here.
Speaker 1 (56:22):
Yeah, heather, and I'm so grateful that you came to
talk with us today.
These are um beautiful wisdoms,beautiful learnings and
sharings and and just thank you,gorgeous gorgeousness for
having me.
Speaker 3 (56:35):
I really feel very blessed to be able to share use
my voice yay wonderful,wonderful.
Speaker 1 (56:43):
You jump in.
You jump in with a question,you go for it well our silly
little rapid fires.
Okay, they're fun I.
Speaker 2 (56:50):
I will ask the first question then.
So you know, walking into yourted, talk to your concert, you
know what would be your walk-insong, oh my goodness I mean, I
think it's now wolf woman, yeahI'm drawing a blank, so.
Speaker 3 (57:09):
So let's just go with Wolf, go with.
Speaker 1 (57:10):
Wolf a little bit Yep , yep, yep.
And if you know, I'm claimingit because now it's my book, yes
, that's right Claim that, yeah,I will definitely play it.
Speaker 2 (57:19):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (57:20):
All right.
So what book changed you?
Speaker 3 (57:25):
Oof.
You know, I really will creditthe Color Purple.
Speaker 1 (57:30):
Oh, my goodness really changed my life as a
young person yeah, wow, thestory, the craft, the, the
language, oh my god, that onepassage about god and the color
purple and the color my entirespirituality in a page that's
alice
Speaker 2 (57:48):
walker.
Okay, yeah, do you remember howold you were when you read that
the first time?
Speaker 3 (57:54):
I mean I was probably a preteen or early teen.
I was 13, 12.
Speaker 1 (58:01):
Yeah, amazing, I didn't come to about 18.
I think, yeah, transform oh mygoodness.
Speaker 2 (58:08):
Yeah, I think I was in high school.
Okay, what movie lives rep freein your brain?
Speaker 3 (58:15):
What movie yeah?
Speaker 1 (58:17):
You know that you can quote endlessly.
Speaker 2 (58:21):
Probably princess bride Great one Also a great
book, but yeah.
Speaker 1 (58:28):
Oh yeah.
Oh the book is just lovely.
Okay, so I think and you'vealready answered this, but we'll
readdress it what did you lovedoing as a kid that you love
doing to this day?
Speaker 3 (58:42):
yes, wearing long flowing dresses and flower
garlands and playing in thewoods oh, that's just beautiful
meadows and beaches with friendsyeah, oh yes, please yeah, I
know I'm like can we all just godo that right now?
Speaker 2 (58:57):
that sounds amazing.
Speaker 3 (58:58):
So yes, we can.
Speaker 2 (59:00):
Yes, one word frolic I like that, but I also like it
with the log flowing dresses.
That's just as fun.
So, yeah, um, what in yourworld is lighting you up right
now?
Speaker 3 (59:14):
You know creating this album is really lighting me
up right now.
It's my first true solo album,so I've been putting most of my
(59:35):
effort for the last, really justjust in this 2025.
I had made a choice to shiftand focus on on myself as a solo
lead artist and it's been it iscontinues to be extremely scary
and challenging and bringing upall the juicy yeah, stuff um,
but it is exhilarating, now thatit's really coming yes, and how
(59:56):
, how nice to finally.
Speaker 2 (59:58):
It's almost out there .
Speaker 3 (59:59):
You know, like you said, next everybody gets to
start hearing it next week whichis amazing, that too, it feels
so good to have two songs I'vebeen carrying for years that I
just finally I'm releasing tothe world.
It it's like the river is justflowing.
Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
Yes, yes, beautiful.
Bravo you just taking a secondhere just to hold space with you
and just own that truth of whata beautiful, powerful, potent
moment this is, and bravo youfor pulling this forward and
living.
That's some beautiful stuff.
That's some beautiful stuff.
Speaker 3 (01:00:34):
that's some beautiful stuff right there okay, so
bravo to all the hands andbeings that are helping me yes,
yes to that, yeah, yes, yeahwhat color is hope?
Speaker 5 (01:00:46):
oh, green, green yes, yeah, green green green, yep.
Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
And what does hope sound like?
Speaker 3 (01:00:54):
oh gosh, the first thought that came to mind is
bird song yep gorgeous yep,gorgeous.
Speaker 1 (01:01:05):
Uh, finish this statement, if you would.
Connection is finish thatstatement.
Speaker 3 (01:01:13):
Connection is the food of the soul.
Speaker 2 (01:01:17):
Oh yes, it is Nice.
Okay, here's another fill inthe blank.
Speaker 3 (01:01:23):
The meaning of life is oh my goodness, this is one
my mother and grandmother usedto always ask me as a little
girl.
It's like that's just sointellectual of you.
How do you expect others toknow that I do feel that the
meaning of life is to share lovein all forms, in all the
(01:01:48):
different ways and forms of that.
Speaker 2 (01:01:51):
Yes, so agree.
Speaker 1 (01:01:55):
Yes, so agree, yes, music is music.
Magic.
Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
It is, it is and finally, hope is.
Hope is what?
Speaker 3 (01:02:12):
Oh my gosh, you know I'm gonna honor one of my best,
dearest friends in the world,jenny ray.
We were talking last night andI asked her this question
because I knew we were gonna asksomething today and I know I
gave you my answers.
Yeah, um, but I asked her whatwould you answer and she said
(01:02:33):
hope is action, and she got itfrom.
Well, she was inspired to thatconclusion, which is very shared
by many, I know, throughreading James Baldwin and what
he had to say about hope.
That hope is something toparaphrase her last night.
(01:02:55):
So forgive me, james, but um,essentially that hope, hope, uh,
is chosen that he he sharedthat he, he chose to have hope
in the face of uh totalillogical.
Yeah.
Yeah, and that he felt hope iscreated yes crafted and I I find
(01:03:19):
that's such a powerful yeah,exactly why we're here in the
first place.
Speaker 1 (01:03:27):
So yeah, well, okay, heather, this has been just a
true joy talking with you,getting to know you.
We're so grateful for your veryopen and honest sharing with us
and also sharing your beautiful, beautiful video and your music
with us Just just lovely peoplelistening I.
(01:03:48):
We would love for them to beable to find you, to learn more,
to explore what you do.
You want to share anythingabout, um, any more about where
they can find you and what, tofollow your album's name all of
that good stuff um, first of all, yes, thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (01:04:04):
It's been very joyous for me as well, and meaningful
and I love meeting new kindredspirits.
When we didn't, we had no ideanope, we're so lucky um.
So to stay connected with me,my website is just
heatherwolflove,wwwheatherwolflove, and there's
(01:04:24):
tabs to my music, to true voicework, um, to get sorts of things
.
Uh, events, events, upcomingevents.
I workshops.
Make sure you get on themailing list through the website
so you can hear about retreats,workshops.
There's also on the true voicepage you can, if you feel
inspired to learn more or thisis something that you think you
want.
Um, I do a lot of my workvirtually with the voice.
(01:04:48):
Um, and then make sure, yeah,Heather Wolf is my Instagram and
my artist's name on all thestreaming platforms.
Just, Heather Wolf, like theanimal, like the flower.
Yes, yes, the show will be July16th.
(01:05:12):
I believe it's at El Rey Theater, but I think, he might have
sold out of that, so we might beupgrading the venue, but it's
the 16th of July this year in.
Speaker 2 (01:05:20):
LA Awesome, and you said July.
You said starting in LA andgoing up to Vancouver.
Speaker 3 (01:05:28):
You said yeah, july 16th to the 24th LA.
Speaker 2 (01:05:37):
San Francisco Portland okay, wonderful.
Speaker 3 (01:05:38):
And also, if people want to book me um for the fall
and winter and ongoing forworkshops for um shows.
I really love doing houseconcerts and events.
I find it to be just awonderful way to bring in both
storytelling, myth telling andmusic and and conversation among
(01:06:02):
people to facilitate, and thenit could also be a workshop on
the voice.
Speaker 2 (01:06:08):
Wonderful Beautiful.
Speaker 3 (01:06:09):
So all of that, so and.
Speaker 2 (01:06:11):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (01:06:12):
LA fairly frequently.
Speaker 1 (01:06:14):
Heather.
I feel like she's alreadythinking more.
There's more stuff in ourfuture.
I feel very certain of that.
Thank you again for your timeand for the sharing of your
heart.
We're so grateful.
Speaker 2 (01:06:29):
And for the concert that I did.
Thank you for being suchpowerful recipients and for the
concert that I didn't know wewere going to do yes.
Speaker 3 (01:06:34):
Thank you for being such powerful recipients.
I think that one thing is thatthe receiver, the listener, is
just as important as the giver,because you can only really give
to the capacity that it's beinginvited and that can be felt,
thank you for that.
Speaker 2 (01:06:49):
Thank you.
We so appreciate you being.
Speaker 3 (01:06:56):
I know we got delayed but glad you got to make it
today.
Speaker 2 (01:06:57):
Thanks for joining us today on Soul Sisteries.
Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
And thanks for sharing stories with us.
We'd love to hear your storiesas well and keep the
conversation going, absolutelykeeping the hope going.
So we're really hopeful thatyou'll connect with our guests
as well, who have great storiesto share.
(01:07:21):
Go ahead and follow them invarious social media platforms
or live venues, wherever it isthat they're performing and
sharing what they do.
Speaker 2 (01:07:25):
We would love to have you follow us on all of our
social media platforms,subscribe and rate, as that will
help us get our message of hopeout to others.
Thanks for listening to SoulSisteries.
Welcome to Soul Sisteries.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Sis, that was amazing .
I am so excited to let ourlisteners meet Heather Wolfe,
where we got to talk about youknow kind of hope through her
voice really and others findingtheir voice.
And I'm just going to sharewith the audience that if you
stay tuned you get to hear alittle concert while we're
(00:31):
together.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
I mean, it's so gorgeous, so incredible, so soul
.
Sisteries, this is some goodstuff here.
Everybody Can't wait for you tolisten, join us, for you to
listen, join us.
We're thrilled to be talking toand meeting the lovely Heather
Wolf, who has agreed to spendsome time with us and share with
(00:56):
us her journey.
Heather Wolf is an artist forthe Remembrance of Folk Wisdom,
bruess, true Voice, vocal Guide,singer, musician, storyteller,
facilitatorator and sacredcircle practitioner from the
islands of the Salish Sea.
Heather is devoted to the studyof folk wisdom, traditions and
the remembrance of our ancestralheritages.
Running through her work is aconviction that these arts and
(01:19):
practices, carried by thecollective, belonging to the
whole and forming the vitalfoundation of every healthy
culture, can help us embody oursacred relatedness to other
humans and to the living world.
Heather leads private sessions,retreats and workshops
worldwide, gives mythopoeicritual performances of folk song
(01:41):
and story with the MountainDulcimer, who we hope to hear a
little of, and performs with herbands Witch Pop and Wild
Revival.
She's also the lead trainer forTeen Talking Circles, which we
understand she originated aswell, and welcome, welcome,
heather.
Thank you for joining us.
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
It's a delight.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
It's wonderful to meet you and have you spend some
time with us and I know, justtalking a few minutes before
this, we kind of talked aboutsome things you have going on in
your life and kind of where westarted on our journey and
creating this podcast, andreally what we love to do is
just kind of hear from guestsand having them share with us
(02:25):
kind of what got them to wherethey are in your life, in your
world.
And so listening to thatbiography of you, holy cow, I
mean there's a whole lot goingon there.
I mean this folk wisdom and Iwas reading online about your
sacred circles and the workyou're doing with, you know,
teen girls and just all thisamazing, all these amazing paths
(02:48):
you're taking, and I would lovefor you to just kind of share,
like, what got you starting downthis path and then how you've
kind of veered into all thesedifferent things you're doing.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Yeah, yes, I got to grab this.
I almost want to like give youa peek of my, my altar.
That would really explain a lot.
But I just found this oldpicture of me as a little girl
and this, um, oh my gosh,assignment that I did in seventh
(03:25):
grade.
I was just like, wow, I am theexact same person that I was in
seventh grade.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Authenticity hello.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
A lover of butterflies, the wind and rain
and trees, who finds happinessin friends, family and music.
Who needs music, the wind andtrees, who gives happiness,
friendship and strength.
Who fears insects and war, whowould like to sleep in the
(03:59):
clouds, who would like to growher own wings, who would like to
dance in the light of a fullmoon with the fairies?
Oh, I, I, that, I.
I love to wear rainbow scarves,skirts and dresses, and flower
garlands.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yes, yes to all.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
And for everybody who's listening and you're not
seeing, the photo that Heathershared with us is a beautiful,
wide eyed little girl standingin the trees and all the foliage
, just looking out with wonderand definitely looking as one
with a tree and those branches.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
Maybe that should be my bio.
That should be my bio.
I love it, I just feel yeah, Iremember.
You know.
I don't know what your earliestmemories are, but I think really
around eight years old is, Ifelt like a certain awakening of
my consciousness on a spirituallevel, where I experienced a
(05:02):
tree in my backyard, a mapletree that I really loved.
I felt I was walking by on onesunny day and I felt love reach
out to me through the leaves andbranches of the tree, like it
was a human being that justreached out and put her arms
around me and I felt this bodilyexperience of what I would call
(05:25):
God or the divine,unconditional love.
Yeah, I don't know, it'sactually making me almost want
to cry right now, and it's just.
It was this awakening moment ofsomething that I think children
are born close to, that divine,unconditional essence of life,
(05:47):
which to me is love and graceand wisdom.
And for me, I just recognizedin that moment, through my whole
being, that the living world isa source, is this rich,
unconditional, vast sourcethat's always pouring love out
(06:10):
to us and to life.
Yeah, I think I've always feltvery close with that kind of
magic, the magic of the livingand unseen realm.
To me, this magic, it's notparanormal or supernatural, it's
very deeply natural and um, oneof my dear friends and mentors
(06:31):
and david abram, is a his work.
David abram wrote spell of thesensuous and other books, and
his work really encapsulatesthis, um, but just that magic is
natural and that we are all ofthat magic.
So I, all my life, the, the,these are the things that drew
(06:57):
me nature, music, um, and Ithink it's funny that the bio,
the, the list that I of titles,it feels so silly, I just laugh
every time.
I think it's funny that the bio, the list of titles, it feels
so silly, I just laugh everytime I hear it.
But I think it is coming out ofa place of recognizing that
life is relational and life ismultidisciplinary by nature, in
(07:21):
truth, by nature, in truth, andthat we have a lot of modern
over culture, human constructsaround expertise and separating,
separating um subjects,separating uh, relational
relationality in all ways and Istand for moving.
(07:44):
I would say moving back, butit's also moving forward,
because we're never actuallyreturning to the right,
returning to a remembrance of amore earth-based, original way
of relating with ourselves andlife and um, and so my wish in
(08:04):
the so it's like, being a folkartist means we don't have to be
the greatest at everything wedo.
We do it and we embody it and itcan be simple and it can be
regular, like I have had a hardtime.
It was a little over five yearsago that I had a huge career
shift.
I left a business that Istarted co-founded with my last
(08:27):
husband, and I decided I wantedto become a professional
musician and it was really scarybecause I felt I was pretty old
in the scheme of things tobegin.
You know, throughout my wholelife have dealt with shame and
unworthiness around my voice andexpression, which has brought
(08:48):
me into the work that I do withthe voice, because it's been, it
is and has been my own healingpath.
Yes, and then continues to be.
I'm just, but, um, I justremember the what got.
What got me on stage was justwanting to grant more permission
for more people to embody whatis theirs, to express, to embody
(09:12):
their voice is imperfect andregular, which, like no voice,
is actually ever regular, butfolk arts can be regular.
They're the earth, they're ofthe people.
They don't have to be an expert, institutional master.
You know, master, to do it.
(09:34):
It's a birthright and mecarrying our songs, carrying our
stories, carrying our ownpersonal, embodied knowledge of
how to heal our all these things, that that our folk arts, the
songs, the stories um our ownpersonal relationship with herbs
(09:55):
and rituals all these thingsare birthright and they are in
our lineage they are in each ofour ancestral lineages, which
many of us, especially in whiteculture, have lost.
In white settler culture thatis so much of America, as well
as all the harm that has beenand continues to be perpetrated
(10:17):
on Indigenous people and peopleof color, and I will add, our
trans and queer communities,even more so now.
So all of this cultural loss isto me it's a deeply spiritual
loss, but it's not spirit that'sdisembodied from matter, it's
spirit that's deeply embodied.
(10:39):
So to me it's a wildness.
Yeah, oh yeah.
It's being in touch with awildness.
Yeah, oh yeah.
Yeah, it's being in touch witha wildness that is wise.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
So I just want to say , Heather because this is the
first time that we are allsitting down together You're
speaking our language, so justknow that we are right there
with you.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
You are among soul sisters for sure, yeah, right,
yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
And I'm thinking back to, like our own childhood and
Donna's a few years older thanme and we grew up sharing, you
know, a bedroom and at night shewould sing to me and I thought
she just had the most amazingvoice.
And I think you're still there.
I'm still here.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
Okay, perfect, yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
But she just had the most.
Could you start the?
Speaker 3 (11:26):
story over though.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Yeah, I sure can, yep .
So we grew up together andshared a bedroom and a bed and
you know whether I was scared ornot Donna would sing to me and
there was one song in particular.
I always loved her to sing, butshe would always sing this song
to me and as we grew up shewould discredit her own voice
(11:48):
and say that she didn't know howto sing and that she couldn't
carry a tune, and to me it wasjust the most beautiful,
soothing thing always, and Ithink as an adult she's embraced
her voice through singing andacting and writing, but
certainly allowing herself tosing loudly and proudly.
(12:09):
And so I just I love that.
You share that it's.
We all have this God givenright to use our voice and I
absolutely love that.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Oh, I love that.
I want to hear the song now.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
I sing all the time.
I sing all the time and,believe me, I do not have that,
that to sing well, you just needto be willing to sing out and
(12:47):
to use, you know, use yourinstrument in whatever
capacities and play with that.
So it's become part of the kindof inner knowing and the
teaching of that one aspect ofmy life.
I so relate to so much of whatyou're talking about here,
heather.
So many things, and one is justthat multi expression of all as
(13:10):
source moves in you and throughyou and outward.
You can choose manifestation orit manifests, and in such a
myriad way, and they're endless,the endless possibilities.
And what can you talk a littlebit about?
Like, what is that?
Oh gosh, what am I even getting?
(13:31):
Like, what is at the heart ofthat for you?
What's at the root of it?
Where do you determine in whichway to move, in which way to
experience or grow?
However you want to take thatquestion, yeah, such a good
question.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
There's like I want to take that question.
Yeah, such a good question.
There's like I want to respondto something you said earlier
and I want to respond to that?
um, both okay, so I might askyou to re-ask the question, but
in terms of the of a folk songand music, I just wanted to tag
that we think of folk song andmusic, as you know, not
(14:08):
well-trained or regular, notvery sophisticated.
But if we look into thetraditions of the people's music
around the world I mean Africa,just as an example, but also
Indonesia, like all over theworld we're talking about, just
(14:37):
like mythology or folklore orritual, all of it place that,
the, the complexity and the umdelicacy is actually astounding.
And when it, when people areable to grow up in cultures
where we'll just use music anddance as an example, but it goes
(14:58):
into all the different artforms where music and dance is
broad, where we grow up, aswhere music and dance is broad,
where we grow up, as where musicand dance is part of life
collectively, that we are allconstantly in a polyphonic song
of existence with humans andbeyond, with so much more than
(15:32):
humanity, and the more that Imean, and that's where so many
of our languages of the worldhave emerged out of
communication with animals andforces of nature, elementals.
right, it's actually throughthis.
There's a word in Sanskrit wordcalled yukti, and it's like the
(15:54):
specific coming together of somany different forces and
factors and beings.
That creates the specificity ofform, and we can think of
language or folk song, folk taleand myth as these yukti
convergences and so that's whyit's also so exciting to me is
(16:18):
that I'm part of that are somuch bigger than me that are
happening right now of peoplerecognizing the importance of
folk practice and re-engagingand re-reviving, and then our
skill set starts to grow it'sfermentation.
I started a fermentationcompany with my former husband
(16:41):
and third, a third partner, iggy, about almost 10 years ago now,
and ferment.
You know, the birth offermentation, um, is a perfect
example of that, the rebirth ofthe firm of home fermentation
practices.
So I just wanted to, I justwanted to asterix that it's a
very, very exciting potential.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
yeah yeah, absolutely .
You know, and, as you're, itreminds me, because I had asked
you prior to this discussionabout your hope through.
We generally have a little taghere of hope through whatever it
is that our guest wants to talkabout, and you had to but one
of them speaks directly to whatyou were just talking about,
(17:22):
which is that hope through themore than human, and I love that
.
You just led to that verynaturally.
Is there anything else youwould like to say about that?
I feel it's so rich.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
I will, yeah, and then I want to answer your
previous question so potent, soI would say hope, through the
more than human world, um, inthat, uh, we, we can live most
of our lives and if we're notcareful it can swell the amount
(18:05):
of our lived, our car, the um,the civilization and um
metropolis, towns, cities, and,and, and then our consciousness
as well, what we think about,how we interpret um, our whole
psychology, right, everythingcan be very human centric, and I
(18:27):
would say that that's at theroot of most of our problems
collectively, yeah, and we, welose touch with, with one, what
really matters, and two, withjust all the wisdom that is here
for us, and it's wisdom on manylevels.
(18:49):
You know, I just moved toPortland recently and I found a
house with friends that's inForest Park, so I get to go out
walking on trails almost everyday and it's changing me.
It's so important um step outinto nature, our balance, our
(19:10):
wisdom, our grace, ourwell-being starts coming back
yeah and then beyond that.
So there's, there's ineffable,there's ineffable, um, I would
say like setting us right, yeah,ineffably, that happens.
And then there's also verytangible ways that nature
teaches us by the.
(19:31):
You know the work, um, uh, thework of biomimicry.
Oh, my gosh, her name is on thetip of my tongue.
Well, anyway, it's not.
It's not with me right now, butif you're, janine Benning, okay
.
So I had the privilege ofbecoming friends with Janine
Benning last year at Bioneersconference, and her work on
(19:51):
biomimicry is so important andessentially looking at how we
can mimic bias, we can mimic theliving world, um, to create
healthier, more intelligentsystems of doing things as
humans.
So I really feel like, for me,hope is in the immediate sense.
(20:15):
And then the last thing I'd sayabout that is being in this
moment that we're in, which, tome, feels like a crisis, of a
poly crisis I heard that termrecently and I don't know who
coined it, but the crisis on somany different dimensions, poly
crisis yes and you know in theanthropocene, the, you know the
(20:40):
era of of human centricity thatis causing the next mass
extinction, like we are in anera of endings of the world.
We don't know what that willlook like, but there's no
denying that we're in an era ofdying and death, and yes massive
species and life loss andsystemic collapse.
(21:04):
This feels like the ending era,dying you know, yeah, mass
extinction.
And so when, for me, within therealities of this, I find hope
through the life, death, lifecycle of the living world yes
and, yeah, recognizing that,even though we're living in
(21:27):
human made catastrophes, we arealso living in a world and an
existence where life is thelarger story, like spring is
still happening, yeah, in fullmagnificent bloom.
That when you get outside, yourwhole being is enveloped and
(21:48):
overwhelmed by that truth.
But if we stay inside with ourhuman-made devices, our whole
being is enveloped andoverwhelmed in that truth and,
at the end of the day, that is abig truth that affects all of
life.
But it actually isn't the endof the story.
I do believe that humans willprobably kill ourselves off
before we destroy life, likebefore the world stops living.
(22:12):
There's ways, there's mass,massive power of regenerativity,
that that the living world hasthe ability to consume and eat
death and bring it back into herbody and give birth again to
life through the material death.
I mean fecundity.
Really that word encapsulatesthat, that truth.
(22:36):
The fungal realm, you knowflora, fauna, funga, the kingdom
of funga, and and microbesteaches us that on such a
fundamental level.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
So to me, yeah, and that's my closest understanding
of God, and we could talk forhours and hours and days on just
these few sentences here,because everything you're saying
here for for me, this is whereall depth and all life and all
(23:08):
truth and all the all exists andmove through through this um,
it was good, sit around thecampfire, talk.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love it letthe fire talk to us and let the
fire talk it's interestingmentioning all of this just a
little quick, little aside.
Yesterday I was speaking withsomebody who's going through
(23:31):
some real pain physical painexperiences right now and is um
doing a lot of release of someold stuff, and I was encouraging
him to get out into the worldand go connect and he did.
He went for a walk and reminded, like you know, and talk to the
trees while you're there andsee what they have to say for
you, and he came back sorejuvenated and energized in
(23:56):
that conversation in that shorttime but, my goodness, much um
healing um possible and actuallyI do want to, but I there's one
more thing I want to say onthis, which is, I think, part of
the wounding, that part of thethe remembrance is recognizing
(24:16):
that we are not.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
We are the more than human too yes we are.
We are human, and we are somuch more than human as well.
We're nine tenths non-humancell, right you know?
Yeah, we are colonized bycolonies of cultures, and then
(24:39):
also, um, you know, in anon-biological sense too, and so
, for me, hope through the morethan human world also means to
me that I and that we are, weare, we have a living
relationship with what is morethan human in us.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Yes, yeah, amen to that.
Yeah, yeah, I'm thinking thatcan get us a way down another
path too, if we wanted to gothere.
So there are so many thingsthat you're talking about,
heather, I'm like, okay, let meask you about that, let me ask
you about this.
So I'm going to backtrack alittle bit, because you had
talked about, I guess, findingyourself and through your voice,
(25:20):
and really I think you said itwas like five years ago where
you stepped into this kind ofnew world of just using your
voice in any way that you could.
And then you've also startedthis your is it called the True
Voice series where you helpother people find their voice
and use their voice, and I thinkyou said you don't have to have
(25:43):
like a musical voice to findyour voice, you don't have to be
skilled at the scales and allof that, right?
So can you share a little bitabout what that is, because that
to me sounds very hopeful tofind my voice and be able to use
my voice in, maybe, ways that Ihaven't.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Yeah, I'd love to talk about that Also.
I don't know where you'd editthis in, but if you'll excuse me
, I still want to answer thatquestion.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Oh, stop.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Yes, let's go back to it and then let's tag that one
Cause.
I would really love to talkabout this.
Yes, um.
So I think, donna, you askedwhere do I source?
Yes, what.
How do I find where to thepurpose?
Yeah, yes, what.
How do I find?
Speaker 1 (26:24):
where to it's the purpose, yeah, and and that,
that calling at that moment andthat direction, absolutely yes.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
And that was just such a powerful question, and I
feel like that is a question myfriend asked me recently.
She asked me how I'm so curious.
She said what your soul asks ofyou and and do you respond?
How do you respond?
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Boy, there is a potent question.
There's such a beautifulquestion.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
I'm blessed to know some pretty incredible people,
and so she asked me thisquestion and I think it's very
related with yours how do Ishape the work that I do in the
world and or just how I live mylife?
And I would say that, goingback to the very beginning of
sharing the story of myself as alittle girl, my wish has been
(27:15):
from a pretty young age.
I have felt very connected withauthenticity and integrity and
courage.
I would say those are valuesthat I have consciously held to
from a young age and even Ithink early influences were like
the Dead Poets Society, thatgreat film or the DM and growing
(27:41):
up in talking circles where wewere really invited to share on
a deep level in an authenticspace, and for me, the whole
idea of conformity as I was ayoung person growing up and
socializing, realizing the playof social pressure and pushing
(28:02):
to conform, I mean I think Ialways felt different and weird
and I felt a kind ofrebelliousness around it too,
like a righteousness, like noone's going to make me conform.
As I became an adult, itshifted more towards.
My prayer is may I incarnatefully in this lifetime.
(28:26):
And really bring forth what'smine to live forth and to
express and to embody.
May I incarnate in thislifetime.
That is a scary prayer, yeahthat is a powerful one.
That prayer has pushed me andcompelled me to take huge steps
(28:51):
yeah my comfort zone it's.
It's required immense amountsof courage um and loss.
There's this great line someonetold me recently your, your new
life will cost you your old oneisn't that the truth?
yeah, and damn, do I feel that.
Yeah, and so for me it has beena lot about having the courage
(29:16):
and the honesty with myself toanswer my soul's call.
Yeah, but it's not an easything to do and I even like, to
this day, it's like it hasrequired me to continually meet
my loss of vision, my grief, mydoubt, my questioning, like,
(29:40):
well, was the choice truly madefrom a soul, truth, or was the
choice made from some otherkarmic knot that I have to work
out?
Like we're all so fools andwe're going to be, we're going
to be jumping off cliffsthinking that we're doing the
wise choice, and maybe we are.
Maybe we aren't like it's justlike the zen, the zen truth of
(30:04):
like.
We don't know.
We're in a lived experience atany moment.
I wish I could tell this storyjust off my tongue, but I'm sure
you know the zen koan, whereit's like he, he, you know this.
This fool jumps off the cliff,he's headed down to the bottom,
he gets hooked on a on a branch.
There's a lion that's likeroaring up about to bite him,
(30:25):
but then there's like justwithin reach is a perfect berry,
and you know, it's like.
We are just always sort of inthis space of not knowing, did I
?
Is it good, is it bad?
Speaker 1 (30:37):
is it right?
Speaker 3 (30:37):
wrong like that's.
That's the fool, that's thedivine humor of it all.
We really don't we can't takeourselves too seriously to think
that our lofty visions areinfallible.
Right where I feel deeplyfallible, deep fool um right but
.
But.
So when I put together, though,what is of?
What is my joy, what is my,what passion?
(31:00):
What lights me up?
What?
Where does my love and joyflourish?
Where does my vitality rise up?
Where is my pleasure anddelight, you know, and what I
care about most?
And how does that meet serviceto a greater vision of wholeness
?
And how does that meet my lovefor others, my love for life, my
(31:23):
love for the collective and asense of vision and and values?
And so where?
Those where those things meet,uh, my own fulfillment and joy,
and calling um and in alignmentwith values for what's greater
than myself?
you know, and for me that reallyis a well what I think, because
(31:45):
I've I've asked a lot.
What is my specific incarnation, then?
And it is so much aroundembodiment of relationality, the
delicious delight of sensuousexistence that I feel is
actually the kind of food forthe soul that we need to live a
(32:07):
good life.
And it just so happens there'sa lot of healing and repair work
that needs to be donecollectively from the
overcultures that most ofhumanity not all of humanity,
but a lot of humanity iscertainly the dominant modern
world.
There's a lot of undoing andunconditioning that, I think,
(32:28):
keeps us from the very simpletruths of how to live in right
relation with life, how to makea living, how to make a living.
And I just want to name thatsome of my greatest inspirations
for the voices to listen to atthis time are Indigenous women.
I had the privilege to be atBioneers Conference last year
(32:51):
and to listen to a panel ofindigenous women speak about
rematriation rematriation of theland, rematriation of culture,
and so I have my tiny littlevoice and my tiny little being
to contribute.
But I feel that the leadersthat we need to be listening and
(33:11):
following the guidance of areIndigenous women and they hold,
these women especially holdwisdom, the sense of like, good
sense, which ultimately is quitesimple, but one great line that
Karina Gould, simon of the bayarea, for example, was on the
(33:32):
panel.
She said if you want to knowhow to make sure that everybody
gets enough, ask the mothers, nomatter how limited the
resources are yep oh, mygoodness, and I feel that in my
soul yeah, we're, we're notdoing that collectively.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
We are discounting the mothers, we are discounting
the Indigenous women, we aretrying to silence their voices.
And I love, though, that thereare people like you, heather,
and I'm going to say like Donnaand I also, and kind of the
people we try to associate withas much as possible in raising
(34:13):
those voices.
So, you know, for me, it's notthrough singing, because that's
not, although I do love to singbut it is certainly helping
others find their voice andbeing able to speak up, and, if
not, speaking up for them, yeah,yeah, what?
Speaker 5 (34:30):
I mean by voice, is all-encompassing, yeah, speak up
and if not, speaking up forthem.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
So, um, yeah, yeah, yeah.
What I mean by voice is allencompassing.
Yeah.
As you are referring to.
Yes.
Yeah, and that is the.
To go back to your previousquestion, that is the root of
true voice for me, is reallywhat happens when we are.
We are connected with our ownauthentic voice.
That comes from that centralcolumn of our being and we feel
(34:56):
it.
Yes, we feel those moments whenwe are speaking from our body,
our being, our truth, and weknow, we feel it when we're not.
Yeah, and I do believe that inspeakers and but also in singers
, the singers that move us, atleast move us the most, are ones
(35:17):
where the heart and the soul is, it's coming from there and it
doesn't necessarily need to bethe most perfectly operatic.
Right Again why folk music canbe so transcendent, just as
transcendent and powerful as themost, uh, incredible
classically trained music, whichI don't want to to put down
(35:38):
either.
I have such great respect forclassically trained and created
and highly skilled musicianshipand something song in the work
that I do.
It came out of, honestly.
It began 20 years ago,consciously, although I clearly
from my little poster.
I've loved music and song mywhole life.
(35:59):
But when I was in my around 20,I just I became very aware that
I had a karmic, that I had akarmic, a spiritual, emotional
wound in my throat center aroundvocalization and singing.
I would often cry when I sangdidn't feel like I had a good
(36:19):
voice, I just didn't, I just hada bad voice or something.
And I realized that that wasactually something that I needed
to heal on a spiritual,emotional level.
And I yeah, I was.
You know, I'd been in choirs,musical theater, western singing
, training and for most of mychildhood and I, that form for
(36:39):
me of learning brought a lot ofheadiness, like approaching the
expression from my mental,intellectual state, a lot of
anxiety and control in my body.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
And I knew that that was not what music was supposed
to feel like.
Creation was not supposed tofeel that way, and so I studied
with a lot of different othermodalities and really some of
the most powerful song practicethat I've ever experienced
studying and practicing is inthe Vedic yogic traditions.
So chanting chakras, sanskritmantra, and the time in India
(37:20):
was very important for me onmultiple levels.
I studied Drupad, classicalIndian singing, which is one of
the oldest forms of classicalIndian singing.
Singing, which is one of theoldest forms of classical Indian
singing, and it's just in theform itself.
The divine and the body are notseparate from the music.
They're inseparable.
So they're at the foundationand the core.
(37:41):
So now the work that I do withothers, it's continuing to morph
and grow, but it comes out ofjust walking this path myself
and I I feel that the voice isone of our most powerful
instruments, tools, uh, thatwe've been if we have vocal
(38:05):
cords, um, you know that we'vebeen given this immense, magical
, powerful capacity and tool forhealing our own bodies and a
lot of the practices I do.
I would call it like say thatthey're like in the realm of
shamanic they're primalpractices that are inseparable
from our energetic body and ourphysical body, our emotions.
(38:26):
All of it right and and so itcan be utilized to move and heal
and clear energies, and thenalso the capacity to heal others
or to heal collectives or bringjoy and well-being.
There are times when words justdon't do.
We need a song.
(38:48):
Times of birth, death yeah loveloss like these times, and and
there's something, there's someway in which, when we sing and
when we vocalize in general, Ithink that's why it is so
vulnerable for so many of us,because it's a direct self.
People can say one thing, butif their energy and their
(39:12):
emotion is in a different place,you feel it.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Yes, you do.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
Yeah, for sure.
And then that goes on fromthere into song and form of
music, right.
But even when we're singingthat we're beginning in that
foundational understanding ofthis power.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
Yes, oh, heatherather , the profundity of what you're
saying absolutely gorgeous,thank you my goodness well,
would this be an opportune time?
Would you be willing to play?
Or sing a little at this momentso I'll do.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
I was thinking of doing a song that, um, a piece
of a song that's going to be onthe new album that's coming out
in July.
Oh, I love it that, um, I'mreleasing the first single next
week and then succession ofsingles that it's very exciting.
And I'm doing an album releasetour this July from LA to
(40:08):
Vancouver, where I'll be openingfor an incredible artist named
Cosmo Sheldrake, who, if youdon't know his work, he's you
must check him out, um, becausewe can put him in the notes yes,
gorgeous truly a living legend,and he's yeah, he's remarkable.
So Cosmo is an old dear friendof mine, like a brother to me
(40:30):
and we've been singing together.
Actually, he and his brotherMerlin have been a huge part in
my becoming a singer around thatage that I was really
recognized that I loved to singand I wanted to develop my voice
and we began teaching eachother folk songs and singing in
harmonies.
So it's really a joy and aspecial privilege to be opening
(40:53):
for him and it feels like a fullcircle.
Yeah, my life and I'll bereleasing the album midnight
hour for that tour, beautifulawesome this july.
So this is a song, wonderful,called wolf woman that I wrote,
beginning to turn towards musicand it really me to get through
a hard time, but rich of wolfwomen and all the wolf women of
(41:18):
this world, all genders.
Yeah, yeah, you're a wolf woman, you know you're a wolf woman.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
Yeah, exactly, claim it Uh-huh.
Wolf woman so strong.
Speaker 5 (41:46):
Think of all this time you've been holding on.
It's time you believe you'vegot the right to be.
This life, it's so precious,she's got to be the protectress.
(42:11):
This life, it's so sweet.
She tended with every heartbeat.
Sniff, sniff, sniff.
She'll catch your drift, nomatter how high you are, she
(42:36):
lives Sniff, sniff, sniff.
She'll catch your drift, nomatter how clever you are.
She lives On the high line, onthe low line, on the side line,
(42:57):
on the high line, on the lowline, on the side line, up from
the inside.
She pulls it up from the inside, up from the inside.
(43:17):
She pulls it up from the inside.
Wolf woman so strong, think ofall this time you've been
(43:46):
holding on.
It's time you believe, got theright to be.
Speaker 3 (43:58):
Night Queen, priestess, supreme, don't she
look just like a teeny?
Speaker 5 (44:05):
little thing.
Well, her power runs so deep.
She whispered to you whenyou're asleep Shhh, so strong.
(44:28):
All this time you've beenholding on, it's time you
believe you've got the right tobe me beautiful oh heather gosh.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
Thank you for that oh no beautiful, it was gorgeous
and uh, my goodness, that couldbe.
Um, that could be a theme songfor yes yeah, for what we're
doing we.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
We call us soul sisters, right, but we're
definitely wolf women.
So, yeah, definitely, yeah, Iam.
I am claiming that.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
Yeah, I love it Truly beautiful.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
I could feel that.
I mean that just came rightfrom the belly that was.
Speaker 3 (46:09):
Thank you.
Yeah, it's so funny.
I've been in editing mode forall I hear when I play it is my
other.
I have five part harmony withmyself, so I'm like wait, where
are the other parts?
What am I going to do All theparts at once?
Speaker 1 (46:26):
Well, your through thread was gorgeous.
Truly, that was moving, andthank you for sharing that one.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
Yeah, yeah, well, I just want to ask because I know
we're talking for a while and Idon't know how much time you
have, heather, but I want tomake sure that we get to touch
on your, the teen talkingcircles also, and then I know we
have our rapid fire questionsand some other questions to ask
you on whatever else you want toshare.
But I want to make sure thatyou get to share a little
(46:55):
something with that, because Iknow I think that's been running
for quite a while and you'rethe lead facilitator and I know
you train other people tofacilitate these groups and I
would just love to hear kind ofhow they started and how they've
grown as you stepped away foryour instrument.
We were just talking about,like you know, so many people
(47:16):
trying to silence women's voices, but certainly teen girls'
voices, and um, and to giveadolescents their own voice that
they learn to use when they aremuch younger than all of us,
like how powerful that is.
So if you can share a littlebit, Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (47:36):
And I will say I've had the privilege lately of
working with some preteen girlsin my true voice work, their
songwriting and firstperformance, and it's just, I
mean, I could just cry.
It's so fulfilling and in termsof TTC it's so fulfilling um,
(47:57):
and in terms of ttc team talkingcircles.
I really owe it all to my mother.
She began the project oh, about30 years ago now, um, wow, and
she really out of you know.
I'm sure she spoke on herpodcast a bit about it.
But she really wanted to createa better teen experience for
her daughters myself and and mylittle sister, genevieve and it
began as a focus group that wassupposed to run I don't know a
(48:20):
few months of teen girls andthey were going to use it as a
research to write a book forteen girls and it ended up
turning into the book daughtersof the moon, sisters of the sun,
which is, and a later a bookcalled global uprising, about
youth activism around the world,and and some of the most of the
(48:41):
youth in the circle wanted toshare their story in their own
words.
so that's what the first book is, along with interviews with
incredible female leaders in theworld.
So that happened.
It ended, they wrote the bookand then all the girls were like
well, we still want circle,can't we need?
(49:02):
this and a lot of theirboyfriends at the time were
hearing about circle.
We're curious, and so theystarted to.
They continued it.
It transformed into a nonprofitorganization and I grew up in
talking circles, in gender talks, which were special days where
at that time it was a prettybinary world but where boys and
(49:23):
girls got together and sharedwhat it was like and also took a
look at the gender box.
What are we taught?
It means to be a boy, it notmeans to be a boy and not means
to be a boy, a girl, not a girl,and so it actually was pretty
ahead of its time, in thatregard as well, of really
breaking down gender norms.
(49:45):
So I grew up in the talkingcircles.
I didn't really want anyone toany of my peers to really know
about it.
It was again another thing thatmade me weird.
Until one of my peers to reallyknow about it.
It was again another thing thatmade me weird until one of my
best friends, nora um.
I invited her to circle and shegot so excited about it that she
told everybody.
You know, she told all herfriends don't tell yeah and um
(50:09):
yeah.
And it's amazing, she and Igrew up in circle together.
Talena, who's the executivedirector, is like a sister to me
and one of my best friends froma preteen, and she was in the
first book, first Circle.
So around five or more now,years ago, my mother was really
ready to hand it over and Talenastepped up as executive
(50:30):
director, I stepped up as leadtrainer and I wrote the first
curriculum for the virtualtrainings, along with Nora
Harrington and Emmy Kellogram,who was a facilitator when we
were teens.
And Emily Kello has started TeenTalking Circles for Vashon
(50:52):
Island from Montessori toelementary, middle and high
school youth Intergenerationalmentorship programs.
It's just incredible what she'sdone and we built out a team of
incredible trainers AlexandriaArungare in Utah, who works with
(51:12):
restorative justice and circlework, and this is just what
we've created in the last fiveor more years since my mother
left, but during the life oftalking circles before that,
when Linda was running it, it itwas it's always been a small
but mighty organization andplaces that the circle has gone,
(51:36):
the different um identities andsocial groups that have
received its benefits are greatand I feel like the power of
teen talking circles is thesimplicity yeah actually, but
it's a foundation of, of skillset and an approach that's based
in simplicity and based informatting the work to fit the
(51:58):
individual facilitator andcommunity.
So there's not it's not meant tobe a top down.
It really is around power withand really respecting that the
roots of.
Circle are indigenous from allover the world.
Yeah, again, it's a lineage,it's a piece of our lineage and
heritage and I think it's acraving that we have to
(52:22):
communicate in deep authenticityin a collective space that's
held with integrity and care andkindness from the heart and
deep listening and I and there'sa power to being heard and
received and witnessed by atrusted collective.
That's distinct from thehealing we get from one-on-one
(52:47):
care with a therapist, which hasits role, I believe as well.
Yeah, part of this relationalfabric, and especially as young
people yeah, when it's that agewhen so much social relational
breakdown with other generationsis happening, like yeah and
(53:07):
youth are teens are sostigmatized and misunderstood.
It's where some of our biggesttraumas can happen, because it
is.
I mean, they can happen muchearlier, of course, and often do
, sadly, but it is a naturalrite of passage.
It's a natural time ofinitiation from one
(53:28):
consciousness and way of beinginto another.
And so it bears a presence ofwisdom and it bears a presence
of caring um adults, not tocontrol and lead the way, but to
be present with and hopefullybe able to cultivate contexts
(53:49):
where where the alchemicalinitiatory process can happen in
a healthier way, whereasoftentimes I feel these rites of
passage, youth create them forthemselves, the the edge
experiences because there's acraving and a need for them.
Yeah, um, and although circledoes not, the teen circles does
(54:10):
not focus on specifically ritesof passage, work or rituals
which are in and of themselvespart of my work and the
longevity, the regularity ofrelationship through a span of
(54:37):
time, uh, which I would say thatwe all just really desperately
need lives.
Speaker 2 (54:46):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (54:47):
Heather, it's so interesting, there's so much
that you're talking about that.
Uh, we you and I have so manyparallels in our journey, like I
did years ago, started into theprocess of working with ritual
and rite of passage,particularly with young people,
and just because, for me, myunderstanding of these types of
(55:08):
experiences, that we meet them,they meet us, at a place that
lives below the level oflanguage.
It's something deeply primaland why things, as you know,
commonplaces, you know, walkingacross the stage at graduation
or going through whatever thoseceremonies are, they have so
(55:30):
much meaning and import becauseof what they do at these deep,
these very deep levels.
Anyway, I'm fascinated by whatyou're saying and I think you
and I could talk endlessly, but,yeah, we need to.
We need to move to our nextphase, our next phase of
questions.
Speaker 2 (55:50):
Yep, do you want to jump in?
I think so, heather.
This section, what we do isjust kind of we call it rapid
fire and it's not really rapidand there's no fire.
We just ask you questions andit's kind of like, don't think
about it, just the first thingthat comes to your mind.
If you're willing to share, oh,painful.
Speaker 3 (56:13):
What you were sharing was so beautiful oh, yeah, yeah
, yes completely well, that'swhat I feel about everything
you've shared here.
Speaker 1 (56:22):
Yeah, heather, and I'm so grateful that you came to
talk with us today.
These are um beautiful wisdoms,beautiful learnings and
sharings and and just thank you,gorgeous gorgeousness for
having me.
Speaker 3 (56:35):
I really feel very blessed to be able to share use
my voice yay wonderful,wonderful.
Speaker 1 (56:43):
You jump in.
You jump in with a question,you go for it well our silly
little rapid fires.
Okay, they're fun I.
Speaker 2 (56:50):
I will ask the first question then.
So you know, walking into yourted, talk to your concert, you
know what would be your walk-insong, oh my goodness I mean, I
think it's now wolf woman, yeahI'm drawing a blank, so.
Speaker 3 (57:09):
So let's just go with Wolf, go with.
Speaker 1 (57:10):
Wolf a little bit Yep , yep, yep.
And if you know, I'm claimingit because now it's my book, yes
, that's right Claim that, yeah,I will definitely play it.
Speaker 2 (57:19):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (57:20):
All right.
So what book changed you?
Speaker 3 (57:25):
Oof.
You know, I really will creditthe Color Purple.
Speaker 1 (57:30):
Oh, my goodness really changed my life as a
young person yeah, wow, thestory, the craft, the, the
language, oh my god, that onepassage about god and the color
purple and the color my entirespirituality in a page that's
alice
Speaker 2 (57:48):
walker.
Okay, yeah, do you remember howold you were when you read that
the first time?
Speaker 3 (57:54):
I mean I was probably a preteen or early teen.
I was 13, 12.
Speaker 1 (58:01):
Yeah, amazing, I didn't come to about 18.
I think, yeah, transform oh mygoodness.
Speaker 2 (58:08):
Yeah, I think I was in high school.
Okay, what movie lives rep freein your brain?
Speaker 3 (58:15):
What movie yeah?
Speaker 1 (58:17):
You know that you can quote endlessly.
Speaker 2 (58:21):
Probably princess bride Great one Also a great
book, but yeah.
Speaker 1 (58:28):
Oh yeah.
Oh the book is just lovely.
Okay, so I think and you'vealready answered this, but we'll
readdress it what did you lovedoing as a kid that you love
doing to this day?
Speaker 3 (58:42):
yes, wearing long flowing dresses and flower
garlands and playing in thewoods oh, that's just beautiful
meadows and beaches with friendsyeah, oh yes, please yeah, I
know I'm like can we all just godo that right now?
Speaker 2 (58:57):
that sounds amazing.
Speaker 3 (58:58):
So yes, we can.
Speaker 2 (59:00):
Yes, one word frolic I like that, but I also like it
with the log flowing dresses.
That's just as fun.
So, yeah, um, what in yourworld is lighting you up right
now?
Speaker 3 (59:14):
You know creating this album is really lighting me
up right now.
It's my first true solo album,so I've been putting most of my
(59:35):
effort for the last, really justjust in this 2025.
I had made a choice to shiftand focus on on myself as a solo
lead artist and it's been it iscontinues to be extremely scary
and challenging and bringing upall the juicy yeah, stuff um,
but it is exhilarating, now thatit's really coming yes, and how
(59:56):
, how nice to finally.
Speaker 2 (59:58):
It's almost out there .
Speaker 3 (59:59):
You know, like you said, next everybody gets to
start hearing it next week whichis amazing, that too, it feels
so good to have two songs I'vebeen carrying for years that I
just finally I'm releasing tothe world.
It it's like the river is justflowing.
Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
Yes, yes, beautiful.
Bravo you just taking a secondhere just to hold space with you
and just own that truth of whata beautiful, powerful, potent
moment this is, and bravo youfor pulling this forward and
living.
That's some beautiful stuff.
That's some beautiful stuff.
Speaker 3 (01:00:34):
that's some beautiful stuff right there okay, so
bravo to all the hands andbeings that are helping me yes,
yes to that, yeah, yes, yeahwhat color is hope?
Speaker 5 (01:00:46):
oh, green, green yes, yeah, green green green, yep.
Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
And what does hope sound like?
Speaker 3 (01:00:54):
oh gosh, the first thought that came to mind is
bird song yep gorgeous yep,gorgeous.
Speaker 1 (01:01:05):
Uh, finish this statement, if you would.
Connection is finish thatstatement.
Speaker 3 (01:01:13):
Connection is the food of the soul.
Speaker 2 (01:01:17):
Oh yes, it is Nice.
Okay, here's another fill inthe blank.
Speaker 3 (01:01:23):
The meaning of life is oh my goodness, this is one
my mother and grandmother usedto always ask me as a little
girl.
It's like that's just sointellectual of you.
How do you expect others toknow that I do feel that the
meaning of life is to share lovein all forms, in all the
(01:01:48):
different ways and forms of that.
Speaker 2 (01:01:51):
Yes, so agree.
Speaker 1 (01:01:55):
Yes, so agree, yes, music is music.
Magic.
Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
It is, it is and finally, hope is.
Hope is what?
Speaker 3 (01:02:12):
Oh my gosh, you know I'm gonna honor one of my best,
dearest friends in the world,jenny ray.
We were talking last night andI asked her this question
because I knew we were gonna asksomething today and I know I
gave you my answers.
Yeah, um, but I asked her whatwould you answer and she said
(01:02:33):
hope is action, and she got itfrom.
Well, she was inspired to thatconclusion, which is very shared
by many, I know, throughreading James Baldwin and what
he had to say about hope.
That hope is something toparaphrase her last night.
(01:02:55):
So forgive me, james, but um,essentially that hope, hope, uh,
is chosen that he he sharedthat he, he chose to have hope
in the face of uh totalillogical.
Yeah.
Yeah, and that he felt hope iscreated yes crafted and I I find
(01:03:19):
that's such a powerful yeah,exactly why we're here in the
first place.
Speaker 1 (01:03:27):
So yeah, well, okay, heather, this has been just a
true joy talking with you,getting to know you.
We're so grateful for your veryopen and honest sharing with us
and also sharing your beautiful, beautiful video and your music
with us Just just lovely peoplelistening I.
(01:03:48):
We would love for them to beable to find you, to learn more,
to explore what you do.
You want to share anythingabout, um, any more about where
they can find you and what, tofollow your album's name all of
that good stuff um, first of all, yes, thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (01:04:04):
It's been very joyous for me as well, and meaningful
and I love meeting new kindredspirits.
When we didn't, we had no ideanope, we're so lucky um.
So to stay connected with me,my website is just
heatherwolflove,wwwheatherwolflove, and there's
(01:04:24):
tabs to my music, to true voicework, um, to get sorts of things
.
Uh, events, events, upcomingevents.
I workshops.
Make sure you get on themailing list through the website
so you can hear about retreats,workshops.
There's also on the true voicepage you can, if you feel
inspired to learn more or thisis something that you think you
want.
Um, I do a lot of my workvirtually with the voice.
(01:04:48):
Um, and then make sure, yeah,Heather Wolf is my Instagram and
my artist's name on all thestreaming platforms.
Just, Heather Wolf, like theanimal, like the flower.
Yes, yes, the show will be July16th.
(01:05:12):
I believe it's at El Rey Theater, but I think, he might have
sold out of that, so we might beupgrading the venue, but it's
the 16th of July this year in.
Speaker 2 (01:05:20):
LA Awesome, and you said July.
You said starting in LA andgoing up to Vancouver.
Speaker 3 (01:05:28):
You said yeah, july 16th to the 24th LA.
Speaker 2 (01:05:37):
San Francisco Portland okay, wonderful.
Speaker 3 (01:05:38):
And also, if people want to book me um for the fall
and winter and ongoing forworkshops for um shows.
I really love doing houseconcerts and events.
I find it to be just awonderful way to bring in both
storytelling, myth telling andmusic and and conversation among
(01:06:02):
people to facilitate, and thenit could also be a workshop on
the voice.
Speaker 2 (01:06:08):
Wonderful Beautiful.
Speaker 3 (01:06:09):
So all of that, so and.
Speaker 2 (01:06:11):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (01:06:12):
LA fairly frequently.
Speaker 1 (01:06:14):
Heather.
I feel like she's alreadythinking more.
There's more stuff in ourfuture.
I feel very certain of that.
Thank you again for your timeand for the sharing of your
heart.
We're so grateful.
Speaker 2 (01:06:29):
And for the concert that I did.
Thank you for being suchpowerful recipients and for the
concert that I didn't know wewere going to do yes.
Speaker 3 (01:06:34):
Thank you for being such powerful recipients.
I think that one thing is thatthe receiver, the listener, is
just as important as the giver,because you can only really give
to the capacity that it's beinginvited and that can be felt,
thank you for that.
Speaker 2 (01:06:49):
Thank you.
We so appreciate you being.
Speaker 3 (01:06:56):
I know we got delayed but glad you got to make it
today.
Speaker 2 (01:06:57):
Thanks for joining us today on Soul Sisteries.
Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
And thanks for sharing stories with us.
We'd love to hear your storiesas well and keep the
conversation going, absolutelykeeping the hope going.
So we're really hopeful thatyou'll connect with our guests
as well, who have great storiesto share.
(01:07:21):
Go ahead and follow them invarious social media platforms
or live venues, wherever it isthat they're performing and
sharing what they do.
Speaker 2 (01:07:25):
We would love to have you follow us on all of our
social media platforms,subscribe and rate, as that will
help us get our message of hopeout to others.
Thanks for listening to SoulSisteries.
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