Going Beyond Customer Service: A Life Dedicated to Helping Others - Neal Woodson - Soul SiStories

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Soul Sisteries.
Hey, oh my gosh, that wasreally exciting, wasn't it, Sis,
we just talked with NeilWoodson, who we didn't know
before this, but our wonderfulKirk brought him to us and now
I'm so grateful and took away somany nuggets I have notes all

(00:25):
over my page about.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Oh, remember this.
Remember this yes, me too.
And movies to watch and booksto read, and really just that
message of going out and doingsome good, and I think that is
just a great way to enter intoour week and our weekend here.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
Go do some good.
Hey everybody, come, do somegood and listen to Soul
Sisteries right now with us andenjoy Neil Woodson.
We are so thrilled and honoredto be talking with the author,
speaker, presenter, mentor, neilWoodson right now.

(01:04):
Let me tell you a little bitabout Neil.
Neil has spent the past coupleof decades helping individuals
and organizations elevate theirleadership and service by
exploring where the twointersect.
His focus is on fostering ahuman-centered, relational
approach built on compassion,ethics and meaningful connection

(01:26):
.
How much do we love this.
With a diverse background thatincludes roles in retail,
restaurants, education,hospitality and corporate
training, neil brings real worldexperience to his work.
Through his writing, teachingand speaking.
Neil encourages others to thinkdifferently, act intentionally
and find greater fulfillmentthrough service.

(01:47):
He leads workshops, deliverskeynotes that help organizations
create cultures centered onwell-being for both employees
and customers.
As Neil says, go do some good,neil welcome.
Welcome.
Welcome to Soul Sisteries.

Speaker 3 (02:06):
Thank you very much.
It's great to meet you too andI have to give a shout out to my
good friend, dear friend, yourproducer Kirk Lane, who actually
invited me here and I alreadyfeel like I'm part of the family
, so this is good.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
Awesome, we're so glad that he did.
And yeah, as we were justsaying, kirk is the third sister
in the group, so that totallyworks, so thanks, kirk.
So, neil, really where we liketo start when talking with

(02:44):
anyone, we are obviously in SoulSisteries, invested in the
story, in your story, inpeople's stories.
Everybody's got rich, manystories to them, right?
We want to know your story thatbrings you to where you are
today doing this work that youdo.
But as you get into that, we'dlove first, if you don't mind,

(03:05):
share with us your hope through.
What's your particular angle?
What's your particular way inwhich you hold on to hope
throughout your journey?

Speaker 3 (03:18):
Well, I think first we probably should get into some
defining of what hope is.
I think hope means differentthings to different people.
Sure, I, and I actually thoughtabout this cause when Kirk
invited me and said, hey, wouldyou be on this podcast?
And I said sure, and I did alittle reading about you and I
knew hope was a big thing and Ithought, wow, I have not really

(03:40):
thought that clearly about hope.
So I began to look at that andthink what is hope?
And I was brought up in arelatively religious family, a
conservative Christian religiousfamily.
I'm not necessarily that waynow, but that's the way I was
brought up, and so we did a lotof Bible reading and things.
And I do remember in Hebrews itsays something to the effect

(04:03):
that hope is faith in thingsunseen.
And the more I thought about itI thought, well, that's
actually kind of the way I feelabout hope.
Hope is knowing that there issomething better, there can be
something better.
But then, oddly, this morning Iwas working out and I was

(04:25):
listening to another podcast andit was a podcast with these two
psychologists talking abouthope and they defined it from a
psychological viewpoint of beingsomething like that, you know
seeing a better future, but theyincluded action in it yes.
They said, hope is a verb.
Hope means you got to dosomething, you can influence

(04:45):
that future, and that put awhole new thing on it, and that
was literally this morning.
That put a whole new kind offlavor to it.
What I've been doing for thelast 20 years has been largely
in that direction, because mythinking is that we can have we

(05:09):
can have better workplaces, wecan have better places where we
buy, we can have better lives athome if we serve each other,
because that's what we're builtto do.
We're, we're made to help eachother.
I mean, we're not the biggest,fastest or strongest animals in
the jungle, right, and we'verelied on helping each other
from the time we appeared on theplanet.

(05:30):
Yeah, and we kind of give lipservice to that.
We don't pay enough attentionto it and we typically think
when you say service, peopleautomatically go to it's
customer service.
No, it's not.
Service is much bigger'scustomer service.
No, it's not.
Service is much bigger thancustomer service.
It's something we all do everyday, all day.

(05:50):
I mean, if you open the doorfor somebody in the store,
that's service.
If you smile at somebody, ifyou go buy milk on the way home,
that's service.
And we do it all the time andit's so important to what we do.
So for me, hope, my hopethrough is I hope that through
service we can make our world abetter place, and I certainly

(06:14):
want to make it a better placewhen I leave it than when I
found it.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
Yeah, for sure, so will you.
I know you kind of shared howyou're finding this hope through
the service that you're doing,but can you share what got you
here?
Like you talked about yourearly upbringing in the church.
Where did it go from there?

Speaker 1 (06:36):
Well, from this particular angle, yeah, that has
gotten you to like this Let mego back.

Speaker 3 (06:41):
I'm going to.
This is going to sound crazy.
I know you say tell us yourstory.
Nothing here is crazy, no, butyou you know, people go oh,
what's your story?
And you go well, I was born in,wait a minute, but I want to
start there because there'ssomething that big that happened
early, early, early on, thatseriously has impacted the rest

(07:04):
of my journey on, that seriouslyhas impacted the rest of my
journey.
So I was born in in Virginia,in Norfolk, Virginia, and my dad
always used to boast, when youlook at your mom's window, you
know, after you're born youlooked at the Atlantic fleet,
you know so.
But wow, he worked for therailroad and the railroad moves,
moves people around like themilitary, um, move all over the

(07:25):
place.
So my life was marked by movinga lot.
But born in Virginia and lessthan a year later we moved to
West Virginia and we moved to alittle place called Williamson,
West Virginia, which is in themountains, in the coal fields,
Um, in fact, the radio stationthere is called WBTH, which
stands for between two Hills, Um, but when we were there, first

(07:49):
big, major life event, I wasless than a year old and I had
what they call an infanttachycardia, which is kind of
like a baby heart attack.
Um, and basically your heartstarts beating out of control
and, um, I'm sitting in a highchair and my brother walked past
and he said mommy, is hesupposed to be blue?
Oh, uh, they rushed me to thehospital and we get there.

(08:14):
They put me in an oxygen tentand at the time the doctor that
took my case was a woman fromKorea.
Now, I say that because this isthe early sixties and in the
early sixties there weren't manywomen doctors period, much less
a Korean doctor in the wilds ofWest Virginia.

Speaker 1 (08:34):
Right, how did that happen, wow?

Speaker 3 (08:37):
And she comes to my parents and she says look, I've
seen this before, uh, I've hadit happen in Korea.
Um, and I can tell you this, ifwe don't do anything, he's
going to die.
But we have a procedure thatwe've been doing in Korea for
years, and it's to give them amassive dose of digitalis to
slow their heart down.

(08:58):
Um, and I can only give you a50,50 chance on that, good golly
.
Well, thank God my parents,they took the 50-50 chance.

Speaker 1 (09:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (09:12):
And I'm here today.
So my mom, her whole entirelife she called me her miracle
child and she always told me.
She said you are here for areason, Don't squander it, help
others, do something good.
Just you know, don't squanderyour life because you're here.

(09:33):
She was very clear.
She always used to say you'rehere for a reason.
So that for me that was a biglike first life lesson and I've
carried it through probably mywhole life that you know we all
have this opportunity tocontribute.
So don't squander your life,don't squander it on.
You know I want to go out andbe rich.
No, do something that's goingto matter, because nobody I've

(09:55):
never walked through a cemeteryand seen somebody's net worth on
their tombstone you know.
So that was kind of the firstlife lesson, um.
From there we moved back tovirginia.
We moved up into again into theblue ridge mountains, into a
city called roanoke, virginia,um, I lived there through fourth

(10:17):
grade.
Then we moved to ohio, um, onthe banks of the ohio river, um,
and that's another life eventhappened In fifth grade.
They start looking for people tobe in the band and I wanted to
be a sax player or apercussionist, a drummer or a
sax player, and the banddirector looked at me and said

(10:37):
we don't need any more saxplayers or drummers, we need
trombone players.
And he handed me a trombone.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
Oh golly.

Speaker 3 (10:43):
And so I started playing trombone players and he
handed me a trombone and so Istarted playing trombone.
And then we moved back toRoanoke, virginia, where I lived
until I graduated from highschool.
I got very, very entrenched inthe music program.
I became a member of theRoanoke Youth Symphony.
I was actually asked to be partof the Roanoke Civic Ballet
Orchestra, which was that was aprofessional group that was

(11:04):
actually players of the RoanokeCivic Ballet Orchestra, which
was a professional group thatwas actually players from the
Roanoke Symphony, and theyneeded somebody to play second
trombone.
And my trombone teacher said,hey, you're the guy.

Speaker 2 (11:15):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (11:16):
And so I was playing pro gigs.
I was playing whenever I couldplay.
But my school band I prettymuch gave my heart and soul to
them and you know I dideverything.
And when I was a senior Ibecame lieutenant in the band.
We had officers in the band, wehad a captain and that was kind

(11:38):
of the right-hand man of thedirector, and then the
lieutenant and that was me, andmy job was kind of to make sure
everything got secured and wasin the right place and people
were doing the right things.
You know I made sure thatinstruments were where they were
supposed to be in, the practicerooms were clean and just
things like that.
And so anyway, I but I gave myheart and soul to the band.
I was there, you know I came inearly and stayed late.

(11:59):
I was the guy that helped outon every fruit drive.
If anybody that's ever beeninvolved in a high school band
has done a fruit drive, you knowyou go around and you get
people to buy fruit.
You raise money for the bandbake sales and fruit drives.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (12:13):
And so at the end of every year we had an award
ceremony at a band banquet.
And so my senior year, you know, we go to this band banquet and
there's, like you know, mostimproved and and they announce
everybody who was an all countyband or all state band and all
those things, and they give outa very special award called the
bandsman of the year, the JohnPhillips Sousa award.

(12:35):
And I knew I probably wouldn'tget that, because the the
captain usually gets that.
So I was.
I was pretty set on the factthat I was going to get nothing.
It was going to go to thisthing.
It'd be like here's theofficers and the bandsman of the
year is the captain.
Um, so, and that's whathappened.
But then the band directorstayed and he stayed, stayed up

(12:58):
there for a minute and peopleare like what's he doing?
He said I've got one more awardto give out.
He said this is an award thatI've only ever given out once
before, and so this is very,very special because I'm giving
this and this is to someone whohas done more for this
organization than anybody inthis room, and he gave it to me

(13:21):
and it was the most outstandingcontribution award and I
remember getting back in the carand my dad said you know what A
million people win those otherawards, but you're one of two.

Speaker 1 (13:33):
How precious is that?

Speaker 3 (13:36):
And yet still hanging up on a wall in my house Love
it.
And let you know second lifelesson.
You know, no matter howunimportant the work you do or
how unimportant it might seemright, you can make a difference
that you may you know nothingabout, you might not know
anything about.

(13:56):
You know I'm making adifference for somebody, but you
probably are, yeah.
So from there I went to college, got a bachelor's degree in
comp theory.
You know, thought I was gonnawrite a bunch of music to change
the world.
Did fall in love with my highschool sweetheart.
We got married, went to gradschool, got another degree, a

(14:18):
master's degree in comp theory,which, by the way, you don't get
paid any money to do.

Speaker 2 (14:26):
Not the big bucks yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:28):
Well, of course you know, I was thinking I'm going
to get a break somewhere andwrite music for you know a movie
, or get an orchestra tocommission me to write something
.
Anyway, I moved to Baltimore,maryland, which is where I live
now, and became a member of amusic group that a friend of
mine had and they played alltheir own music and it's all

(14:48):
kind of arty music and I thought, well, this might be you know
something to give me that break.
And we played a lot of artsfestivals and colleges and
things like that, but you don'tmake any money doing that.
So I worked in restaurants.
I was a bartender for years,worked in restaurants.
I was a bartender for years.
Uh, worked in retail.
I worked.
I even worked in a salesdepartment for a forklift
company for a while.

(15:09):
Um and through all of that area couple big things.
One was that whenever somethinglike that happens, it's never
one person, one person's faultit's both people's fault.

(15:36):
You both did something wrong, itdoesn't matter what even if
somebody you know broke therules, somebody slept with
somebody else or whatever it was, you both made mistakes, you
both blew it.
You know this is both people'sthing, but the big life lesson
that we, the two of us, learnedwas that life's too short to go
through it with hate, and so weboth decided we would be friends

(15:59):
and we are still friends tothis day.

Speaker 2 (16:02):
Beautiful.

Speaker 3 (16:03):
Good, and it's true, you know, I've, I've, I've
talked to other friends of minewho are who've gone through
divorces or going throughdivorces, and I've told him look
, whatever you do, don't hate,figure out a way to be friends.
Um, so anyway, a few yearslater, I met another woman.
Um, I was actually writingmusic for a dance company and

(16:28):
she was in the dance company andshe was teaching at a college,
and we met and we got married.
And here we are, lo and behold,34 years later.

Speaker 2 (16:38):
Oh, my goodness Beautiful.

Speaker 3 (16:42):
But she got me some teaching work.
She was teaching in a highschool and also at a college.
But she was teaching at a highschool and I kind of, through
her, made my way into being theorchestra director at a high
school and also taught at acommunity college.
And I taught at one class atthe University of Maryland,
Baltimore County.
But it was all contract work.
So from semester to semester,you kind of didn't know how much

(17:06):
am I going to make any money?
Am I going to be able to pay mybills?
It was like a rollercoaster.
Well, my daughter was born, mydaughter Hannah was born, and we
were able to make it okay onthat and we lived in a little
tiny house and it was all good.
And then my wife got pregnantwith child number two and that's
when she kind of looked at meand said, okay, this is not

(17:26):
going to work, we're barelymaking it now.
We need like a bigger house andwe need more steady, reliable
income.
And I was like, yeah, you'reright.
You know I always tell people.
That's when she told me I needto get a big boy job Um and so
that's when I went looking forsomething else and I you know

(17:47):
this was back in the days whenyou looked in the paper for at
help wanted ads.

Speaker 1 (17:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (17:52):
And, um, I found this ad for, you know, audio visuals
in the hotel industry and I wasthinking, oh, I can do that
Cause I've run sound.
You know, I've run live soundbefore for bands.
When you're a musician, youlearn how to do a lot of
different things, yeah.
And so I was like, and evenwhen I worked with dance

(18:13):
companies, I did a little bit oflighting and stuff like that.
So I was like I can do this andI was thinking how hard can it
be?

Speaker 2 (18:20):
That was wrong.

Speaker 3 (18:21):
Really difficult job.
Ask Kirk, he knows for sure.
But for those of you who don'tknow what that means, what AV
industry is it's sound andlighting and video and screens
and all that stuff for meetingsand hotels and conventions.
That's what that's all about.
So I landed that job and I wasmanaging a team in a hotel and
was doing that just fine.

(18:42):
And through variousconversations people learned
that I used to teach and thiscompany had was just starting
their training department andthey said, um, hey, would you
you've got teaching experienceWould you like to be one of our
instructors?
I said, sure, that'd be great.
So I started to teach someclasses.
You know, you did your regularjob.

(19:03):
But they'd say oh, you know, weneed somebody to teach this
class, and so you teach theseclasses.
Well, that started to happenmore and more and more and I
talked to the director of thetraining department.
He said well, we like you, wethink you can.
You do this pretty well.
I was like, oh, okay, great,fantastic.
And I was doing it more andmore and more and more well.

(19:23):
One day I was actually drivingback from the eastern shore in
maryland over on the other sideof the uh, of the chesapeake bay
and I'm crossing the bridge andthere's this big bay bridge and
it's for a lot of people it'sreally scary, it's a really high
bridge and it goes over thechesapeake bay, yeah, a
long way down and my phonestarts ringing.
I'll just glance down, down andit's the CEO of the company.

(19:44):
And man, I'm like, okay, I wentover in the other lane.
I'm like, what am I doing?
I'm on the Bay bridge, so Izoom over the bridge and get
over the other side andimmediately park it and answer
the phone and he's he startstalking to me about the training
department.
He says I'd really love it Ifyou would work full time at the
training department.
We want to move you out of whatyou're doing and put you full

(20:06):
time in the training departmentand I need somebody to build a
leadership training program andI think that would be you.
And I was like.
It was like you know, you knowwhen the angels start singing,
you know the angels were singingand I was like yes, I'm in.

(20:27):
I want to do that, um, and so tobe honest, that's kind of what
I've done for the last 20 someyears is do that, um.
And I finished out workingCOVID kind of stopped that
career because just it stopped alot of people's careers Um, but
I finished out the AV career,teaching and coaching and doing
all that and now I still do thatkind of on a freelance basis

(20:53):
and I write and blog and do allthat stuff.
And I'll give you my final kindof life lesson out of all that
was you know, don't think youknow exactly where you're headed
.

Speaker 2 (21:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (21:03):
Because if you start taking all the opportunities
that come, you never know wherethey're going to lead.
And I'll be honest, you know,as I look back at the music
thing, I was just never.
I'll be honest, I was nevergood enough.
And a lot of people say, don'tever say that about yourself.
I'm like no, I'm being honest,I was never an A level, I could

(21:23):
be maybe a B level.
I was never an A level, I couldbe maybe a B level.
But to be A level you've got tohave some really natural gifts
that I just didn't have andyou've got to have just a high
level of discipline and bewilling to um practice.
I just I was not wanting to gosit in a practice room for hours
and hours and hours and hours.
You know I'd go in there.
They said you got to practiceat least two hours a day.

(21:45):
I'd go in and literally a timerding two hours, it's happy hour
, right yeah and it just takessomething I didn't have.
but when I got into teachingpeople, particularly in the
business realm, and going in andsharing kind of a vision for a
better world, that's when Irealized this is what I do, this

(22:06):
is I just honestly.
You know, there's a time whenyou just realize this is what
I'm supposed to be doing, youknow.
And when my mom said, you know,you've got a contribution to
make, I was like that's it, thisis what it was.

Speaker 2 (22:19):
This is why.
This is why I'm, this is whythat Korean doctor was there.

Speaker 3 (22:20):
Yeah, this is why that Korean doctor was there.

Speaker 2 (22:23):
Yes, and you focus more on service, just like that
doctor did right.
She was there to provide thisamazing service.

Speaker 3 (22:30):
Well, you know, the service thing came almost by
accident in a way.
I built leadership trainingprogram and had to put there was
obviously some service elementsin all of that.
And then later the companystarted to put more of an
emphasis on service and startedto build out things like you

(22:52):
know, sending out surveys anddoing all that stuff.
And I remember sitting in ameeting cause I since I taught a
lot of the customer servicestuff, I was in a lot of those
meetings and they said, well,what are we going to do with all
this data when it comes back?
And I was the idiot who raisedthis hand and I said, and I'm in
this room with all these seniorvice presidents, right?

(23:13):
And I raised my hand, kind ofme meagerly you know me, meek
little me and I said, um, well,you, probably, it'd probably be
good to have someone who goesout in the field and explains
and helps these people kind ofdecipher what things mean and
then helps them work on howthey're going to fix it.
One of the vice presidents saidyou're the guy for that.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (23:36):
And so literally I spent the last oh, 10 years,
eight years, doing just that.
I was flying all over thecountry.
That's where I met Kirk, flyingaround the country coaching
teams, helping them build plansfor improvement, things like
that, but it was still teaching.
It was just a little bitdifferent, with a different, but

(23:56):
I got much more kind ofentrenched in.
What is service all about?
What does it really mean,started really doing a lot more
research into that and and howit relates to not only work but
how does it relate to life, andso it became a much bigger
influence on me, to the pointwhere leadership, to me, when we
talk about leadership,leadership is service, and I

(24:22):
even build that out to the factthat business is service and
life is service in many ways.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
So so, neil, I'm hearing this common theme
throughout a lot of what you'resharing, which I would love for
you to speak on a little bit,which is, as these opportunities
come up, or as you co-createthese opportunities, your
inclination is the yes to them,is stepping forward with it.

(24:50):
Yes, I can do that.
Yes, I can try that.
Sure, trombone, okay, yes.
Sure.
Teaching, okay, yes, sure, goout and teach people, okay, yes,
I'm going to do that.
What do you think it is in youthat generates that?
That that is your inclination.
And I can even tie it to oneother thing.

(25:12):
When you originally said, yourmother's comment to you is that
you are here for a reason, andthat was one of those first life
lessons For some people thatcould have been.
Oh my God, what a heavy burdento bear.
I'm here for, but not for you.

(25:33):
Your choice, your yes, was I'mhere for a reason.
What am I going to do with that?
It's a you know that spin.
So all of that together, whatis it about?
What is it in you that moves inthat direction?

Speaker 3 (25:49):
Um, wow, that's a big kettle of fish.
You're open.
Well let's start at thebeginning the thing.
Instead of seeing the thingthat my mom would say, all the
time you're here for a reason, Itook it more as a
responsibility.
Um, I gotta do that.
Um, many, many, many yearslater, uh, I use that same thing

(26:13):
on my dad.
My dad had a double aneurysm, umin his aorta.
Um, he had one aneurysm up herenear the sternum and one down
near his belly button and andthey both were at the same time
and he almost bled out.
He, in fact, they lost him onthe table a couple of times, but
they basically took that bigchunk of his aorta out and put

(26:35):
in a hose, my gosh, and he wentthrough this depression which
people do a lot when they havemajor surgery.
And, um, he, he just wouldn'tdo anything.
And finally I remember talkingto him and I said, dad, you've
been bought some time.

(26:55):
And I used it against him.
I said you're here for a reason.
You're here for a reason,there's some reason.
You were, you were that didn'thappen by accident.
You're here for a reason.
You've got something you've gotto do.
And I know my mom told me shesaid that was one of the things
that helped him get back up andhe started going.
So I guess it for me it wasit's responsibility.
You know that plays into that.

(27:17):
Um, the other part is why sayyes?
Um, I'll be the first one totell you you I'm not the most
confident person in the world.
I'm a person that needsreassurance a lot.
It's just a natural thing forme, for a variety of reasons,
and I'm not the most confident.

(27:38):
So sometimes I just take it asa challenge and say, okay, I'm
not confident about this.
It scares the hell out of me,but I'm going to try it because
I don't know.
You need to.
You need to try this, you needto do this and I'm not that way
about everything.
You know I look at, you know Igo stand on the edge of a big
high diving board and I'm likehell no.

(27:59):
I'm not doing that.
Maybe that's a voice of reasonkicking in.
But the trombone thing, youknow, I looked at that and I was
like, well, everybody's goingto be a beginner.

Speaker 2 (28:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (28:12):
I mean, what have I got to lose If I sound like an
idiot?
I can always just quit and bedone with it, you know.
But I took to it, you know Iwas able to take to it and and
it actually my parents werepretty good about it.
They were both prettyencouraging they were.
You know, you seem to be doingwell at that, you're doing
better at that, you're gettingbetter, and I'm sure to them it
was just like honk, honk, honk,cause those first band books

(28:36):
suck.
They're just like bum, bum, bum, bum, bee, bee, bee, bee.
You know that's all you'redoing.

Speaker 1 (28:47):
And after a while as a parent you're like oh God,
kill me.
You know, it's funny.
Just a quick interjection.
My eldest son was first adrummer.
Well, actually not.
He did piano first, but then hewent to drumming.
And I can still hear in my headthose initial paradiddles like
oh my God, I cannot unhear that.

Speaker 3 (29:05):
It's just all day, every day, that and the only
reason when they're drummersthat you can stand it is because
they go it's a paradiddle andyou kind of laugh.
They really call it a paradiddleand there's a flamadiddle too
you know but but so I had thatand then a lot of the other

(29:26):
yeses, I don't know.
Sometimes there's just a voice,you know you get this voice
that says go.
You know, go with that.
And the whole teaching thing.
You know I grew up.
My dad, you know, unfortunatelywell, fortunately and
unfortunately my dad worked in acareer that he did because he
had a family and, of course, inhis generation that was a lot of

(29:51):
your generation.
You get a job.
You're working for your wholelife, whether it's your dream
job or not, and I understandthat and a lot and that happens
to a ton of people.
How many people do you knowthat have their dream job?
If everybody had their dreamjob, hell, they'd be nfl
quarterbacks and movies, right.
But he worked that job but whathe really wanted to do was teach
.
So he took every opportunity todo it.

(30:12):
He was a sunday school teacher.
Every sunday he taught sundayschool, um, and he ended up when
he worked for the railroadactually working in their
training department.
So he did some teaching, um.
I never really saw him doteaching at all, but I guess it

(30:32):
was just kind of in my bloodsomehow, or or hanging around
back here in that back part ofyour brain, that, and when it
came up to do this, I was like,yeah, I want to do that.
Something just spoke to me andsaid that's where you should be,
and so yes to that.

Speaker 2 (30:48):
Yeah, so a lot of people, though, would run away
from those challenges.
Well, that's not.
You know, I'm heading to music,this is what I'm doing.
I'm not going to do these otherthings, but something in, you
told you go with it, and yousaid it doesn't happen all the
time that there's things thatyou don't.
You know, jumping off the cliff.
Well, I wouldn't do that either, but what is it Like?

(31:11):
How did you develop that?
I'm going to call it confidence, even though you said that you
don't really have the confidence, but how did you develop that,
like?
It's almost like.
Well, I'm just going to do it,and if it doesn't work out, then
I'll go to the next thing,maybe, but how did you develop
that along the way?

Speaker 3 (31:30):
That was a tough road because I have, for all of
those things you're going to beon stage, a lot of the things I
said yes to.
You're going to be on stage.
What's ironic is that I havestage fright.
Yeah too, you got to be on stage.
What's ironic is that I have astage fright.
Yeah, when I was, when I had todo my senior recital in college

(31:50):
, um, I remember a friend hadgave me a half of um, god,
what's the pill?
It was some heart pill that heruncle had and she said I took
one of these.
I took a half of one of thesebefore my recital.
It really really settled medown.
So I took this pill anyway, andthen, right before the recital,
or right before my comp recitalwhich is equally crazy because

(32:13):
you're on stage, I had toconduct for that.
So and went to his office, hesaid I know you're, you're just
frozen in fear.
And he opened the bottom drawerof his, his, his desk drawer,
and he had a bottle of JackDaniels and he poured us both a
shot.
So we stood in his office andwe both did a shot of Jack.
He said this is going to helpyou out right here and it was,

(32:34):
but it was a bonding experience.
It was great.
You know, we both had a shot ofJack and I went out and did my
recital.

Speaker 1 (32:41):
But, and we both had a shot of Jack and I went out
and did my recital Well as yougo out.

Speaker 3 (32:43):
But I have stage a lot of stage fright and I just
had to get over that and it wastough because I also have an
anxiety disorder and a lot ofmen between the ages of I think
it's I don't remember which oneof you.
One of you is a psychologistright, that would be Diana.
Diana of you is a psychologistright, that would be Diana Diana

(33:04):
you're a psychologist and, um,I know a lot of men kind of
between the ages, like in theirthirties, I think.
A lot of men kind of have thisanxiety thing, and I read
somewhere that the belief isthat one of the reasons for that
is that, um, that's when menpick up a lot of responsibility,
traditionally, you know, theystart families, they've got a

(33:27):
career that's starting, theyjust bought a house, and so you
got all this stuff lumped on youand all of a sudden, ah, you
get paralyzed, um, and soanybody who has any kind of
predisposition to that it kindof kicks it into gear.
And that's exactly whathappened to me.
And so I was on Xanax for awhile and I was there, some a

(33:47):
little bit of therapy and this,that the other, and and um, that
worked itself out.
But also, I think part of theway it worked itself out was
because I had to get up in frontof people, and more and more I
would get up in front of peopleand my stage fright started to
lessen.
It started to go down to thefact that, you know, I'd get in
front of people and just go.
I've done this before, you'vedone this before, it's okay,

(34:08):
yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (34:09):
And what you don't.
I always joke with people whenyou get up in front of somebody.
If you don't know something,just start making stuff up and
do stuff Well we always used tojoke.
When I was in an orchestra,we'd always joke if you miss a
note.
Most of those people in theaudience don't know.

Speaker 2 (34:25):
Nope yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:26):
Yeah, In the world of theater, you know I do a lot of
children's theater and this isabsolutely what we tell them.
You know you just keep going,because if you telegraph that
this is a big mistake, theneverybody's oh feeling badly for
you.
But if you just move on, nobody, nobody, thinks twice about it.

Speaker 3 (34:47):
no, and all as well, and even if it was a mistake.

Speaker 1 (34:50):
If you move on with that attitude, people are
willing to move on with yourather than like feeling sorry
for you or feeling for you well,I remember.

Speaker 3 (34:59):
I remember at one point when we lived in ohio, we
went to a see a play in columbusand it was a play called norman
is that you?
And the star was, and I can'tthink of his name, he was harvey
corman oh harvey used to be on.
For those who don't know whohar Korman is Harvey Korman was

(35:21):
in Blazing Saddles.
He was also a big star on theCarol Burnett show.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (35:27):
And he was the one that a lot of times got
everybody cracking up on theCarol Burnett show.

Speaker 1 (35:32):
Yeah, he had great pride in it.

Speaker 3 (35:34):
When Norman, is that you?
He forgot his lines in oneplace and he started just making
stuff up and he got everybodyin stitches and everybody on
stage was.
And he got everybody institches and everybody on stage
was laughing and everybody inthe audience was laughing and
everybody knew that it was all amistake, and I guess maybe that
had lingered for me thinkingthat well, if that person cannot
get up there and just be anidiot, yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:55):
But everybody everybody had a great time.

Speaker 3 (35:58):
Everybody had a great time, and that's what everybody
.
I couldn't tell you a thingabout that play.

Speaker 2 (36:02):
Yeah, that Everybody had a great time and that's what
everybody.

Speaker 3 (36:09):
I couldn't tell you a thing about that play, yeah,
that yeah, and so for me, youknow, getting in front of people
to do that, I still get nervous.
If you don't get nervous,there's probably something wrong
with you.
I don't get frozen, though,like I used to, but you'll see
me backstage pacing and andgoing over whatever I'm going to
talk about a hundred thousandtimes and rewording it and
changing it, and you know all ofthat.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
Yeah, yeah, I had this big awareness a few years
back that changed the game forme on so many things.
I had this awareness that, whoa, confidence doesn't just come,
it's not that I just suddenlyfeel confident, I choose
confidence, I'm choosing to beconfident, and that like flipped

(36:50):
everything for me, it workedfor me and how to go about it
for what it's worth.
So that was a big revelation.
But I want to ask you something.
Go ahead, neil.

Speaker 3 (37:00):
No, I was gonna say well, Simon Sinek, you know,
Simon Sinek is right.
Yes, the why?
Guy right Mr Optimism?
He always says you know, don'ttell people you're nervous, tell
them you're excited.

Speaker 1 (37:10):
Yeah, we do that in a different way to use that, use
that energy, it's just energy.

Speaker 2 (37:17):
It's the same.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so anyway, goahead.
They're like this.
Yeah, yeah, so anyway.

Speaker 1 (37:20):
They're like this yeah, I love it.
I love all of this.
It's so great, thank you.
Thank you, neil, for everythingthat I want to go back to.
Okay, that kid who's beinghanded that trombone, and you
know about that age, and thatguy, if we were to go talk to
him, what would he say aboutwhere you are right now and what

(37:40):
, what you're doing, what wouldbe his thoughts and feelings
about all of this?

Speaker 3 (37:46):
if he could see in the future, if he could hold up
that crystal ball yeah, seewhere, where it all went.
I think he'd go.
Wow, I can't wait oh oh, I lovethat.
I have been, really, really eventhrough the hard things and and
going through a divorce is hard.
I don't care what end of that,and I know a lot of guys that

(38:08):
think well, I left my wife.
She was horrible, blah, blah,blah.
You know what?
There's still a dark night ofthe soul.
Everybody goes through it and Idon't know if either one of you
have been through that, butprobably split up with some
partner, some friend, somethingthat was tough Right, or split
up with some partner, somefriend, something that was tough
right, or someone died Causeit's, it's a lot like a death,
you know, in a way, and um,that's tough, but you know what?

(38:29):
I wouldn't be where I amwithout it.

Speaker 2 (38:32):
Right no.

Speaker 3 (38:34):
And the things that I had to go through because of it
.
I made me a better person, um,made me we didn't have children.
That was a good thing, but I'mI have a feeling it made me a
better dad for the future.

Speaker 2 (38:48):
Yes, yeah.

Speaker 3 (38:50):
So, but I've been very blessed.
My wife now is an amazing woman, very smart, um, super
organized, loves to travel, um,she's from Scotland and we've
been blessed to be able totravel a lot because of her work
.
We traveled all over the worldand I think you know, if I were

(39:10):
a kid I'd look at that and say,wow, you went to the pyramids.
Holy cow, you did this.
I can't wait.
I think that's what he'd say.

Speaker 2 (39:20):
Yeah, I love that.
So who?
I think your wife probablyinspires you somewhat, but I
would love to hear, like, who orwhat you get your inspiration
from.

Speaker 3 (39:39):
I don't want to pinpoint any body in particular.
It's probably a conglomerationof people who inspire me and a
lot of times it's it might bejust something people have done.
Whenever I see people who haveconquered something that just
seems unconquerable, yeah.
When I see somebody like theother day I was watching the

(40:02):
masters and they had an ad andthis kid drove the ball and they
pan out and he's only got onearm and it was a beautiful drive
yeah, I was like, oh my god,that's inspiring, yeah,
inspiring, yeah, um, yeah, whenI see people who have, who have

(40:24):
some horrible disease or orproblem and they're plowing
through, um, so those kinds ofthings really inspire me.

(40:47):
Um, and then there's you know,there are a lot of different
kind of writers and people thatI've read say certain things.
Seth godin inspires me a lot oftimes with certain things.
He says he's got kind of awacky writing style, but he does
throw out these lines and theseparticular things, over and

(41:07):
over and over, that areinspiring.
You know, if we want a betterworld, we need to build better
things.
You know, that inspires me.
I, um.
So there are a lot of differentkinds of people in that boat.

Speaker 2 (41:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (41:22):
Um, I and and I different kinds of people in
that boat.
Yeah, um I and and I'm not aincredibly religious guy, but
jesus inspires me.
The reason jesus inspires meit's not because of dying on a
cross and all that stuff, and Iknow I'm not, I'm not saying
anything about that, right butthis was a guy that was up
against every odd.
He stood so hard for believingin something that matters.
You know he stood up for.

(41:42):
I mean, to me my favorite storyin all the gospels is the woman
at the well.
You know, he goes to the welland he goes to this woman who's
just going to be, she's going tobe stoned to death.

Speaker 2 (41:53):
Right.

Speaker 3 (41:53):
And he basically chases away all these guys and
he says what have you done?
She says basically I've sinned,I've done all this bad stuff,
I've slept with men.
He goes you're okay, go and sinno more.
You know you're good and I'mlike that's the world I want to
live in for sure you and me bothyou know and I'm like I can get
behind that yeah yeah, and sothat inspires the crud out of me

(42:16):
that kind of stuff yeah yeah, Idon't know if that answered
your question.

Speaker 2 (42:22):
Yeah, no, it did, and and you mentioned the writers
that you appreciate and behindyou.

Speaker 3 (42:28):
That's one.

Speaker 2 (42:28):
Yes, one, but I'm looking behind you to your book
and I would love for you to talka little bit about your book,
if you would.

Speaker 3 (42:35):
I've written two.
I've actually got a third onthe way, which Kirk knows about
because he's been one of mypre-readers Lucky on the way,
which Kirk knows about becausehe's been one of my pre-readers.
Um, lucky, and he's going to.
He's going to get pride ofplace in the acknowledgements on
that.
Um, but he's been one of mypre-readers and I so appreciate
that.
Um, I've written two books.
One the first book was aboutcoaching, uh, about coaching in

(42:56):
the workplace.
This book was written.
This book called Giving a Shitand apologies to anybody who
that offends, but the subtitleis how a willingness to be an
inconvenience can transform yourlife and your business.
So it was kind of a weird startto that book.

(43:18):
It started as a rebuke of thecurrent kind of customer
experience world that we see allthe time and how complicated
people have made it and all thisstuff and and that quickly
transformed into something else.
Um, my wife was.
We had planned this trip justbefore the pandemic and the

(43:40):
pandemic put that on the backburner, yeah, and so through
canceling all these things, mywife is the, she's the travel
person in her house, she doesall that stuff and she was
canceling, you know, planeflights and hotels and all that
garbage.
And one day she just threw downthe phone exasperation, said

(44:00):
why is this so damn difficult?
Why don't people, why don'tthese companies care about their
customers?
And of course, knowing what Iwas doing, you know, for a
living I went upstairs and Isaid well, it's kind of what
business is all about.
I mean, they, they're there tomake money.
Well, actually that stuck in mycrawl and I started thinking

(44:22):
wait a minute, that's not whatbusinesses are for.
They're not there to make money.
Well, actually that stuck in mycrawl and I started thinking
wait a minute, that's not whatbusinesses are for, they're not
there to make.
I mean, yes, they have to makemoney, but they're not there to
make money.
Just like we have to breathe,but I'm not on earth to breathe.
I like that.

Speaker 1 (44:33):
What a great analogy.

Speaker 3 (44:34):
You know, or even you know, I bought a car to travel,
not to fill with fuel.
Right, I have to fill it withfuel, and so, the more I looked
into that, it took me a littlejourney, and the journey, part
of that journey, was looking atwhat are humans here to do?
And what you begin to look see,is that a lot of people think

(44:56):
that we're built to compete andfight against each other, and
and and rise to the top.

Speaker 2 (45:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (45:04):
When all the research that I did said the opposite.
It said actually about 200,000years ago we were actually much
more cooperative and helpful toeach other, partly because we we
had to.
We have to be that way.
If we weren't, we'd all be dead.

Speaker 1 (45:24):
Right.
Interesting when you say thatwhen that show Survivor first
came out, I heard about it andmy thought was well, that'll be
an intriguing social thing tosee how people work together to
survive.
Literally that is what Ithought that show was going to
be.
It is so not what that show is.

Speaker 3 (45:41):
But remember they said all that up, yes, but they
said all this, that's all riggedright they said all that stuff
up, of course, but everythingthat I was researching started
to say the opposite yeah and Ieven came across a really good
book by a guy named rutgerbregman called Humankind, where

(46:02):
he did a lot of that researchfor me.
So it's great, but in it there'sa story about a real-life Lord
of the Rings and if you rememberwhen you were in high school,
you probably read Lord of theRings right William Golding's
book about the kids that areplaying crashes on an island,
Lord of the Flies, I think youmean Lord of the Flies, lord of
the rings lord of the flies yeah, lord of the rings lord of the

(46:25):
flies.

Speaker 1 (46:25):
Yeah, we're not talking cobbets, here we are.

Speaker 3 (46:27):
Yes, that's the well, the island and survival with
yes I'm so glad you caught thatI was wondering where you were
going.
I would say not a lot of highschools and you're like wow
wrong, I did it, everything Idid it.

Speaker 2 (46:41):
Yes, I thought I did.
Lord of the flies.
Okay, yeah, the flies bywilliam golding kirk can get all
of and you're like, wow, wrongauthor, everything I did it.
Yes, I thought I didn't readthat one.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
Lord of the Flies, okay, lord of the.
Flies by William Golding.

Speaker 3 (46:46):
Kirk can get all of that in the editing.

Speaker 1 (46:51):
So start again Right here.

Speaker 3 (46:52):
Kirk.
So these kids?
The plane crashes on the island, all the adults are killed and
they're left to their own ways.
And essentially they resort tosavagery right and two or three
kids get killed in the storybefore they're found.
Well, in the early sixtiesthere were some kids that

(47:15):
actually this virtually happenedto them.
They stole a boat because theywere in a parochial school that
they hated on a South Pacificisland and they were on their
way to find somewhere else.
They wanted to live somewhereelse.
I think they were trying to getto Australia and a storm came
and they were shipwrecked.
It's starting to sound likeGilligan's Island, right.

Speaker 2 (47:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (47:39):
But they did the same thing.
They start to set up acommunity, but they built a
community right, and they hadrules and laws and they they
actually built a little gym,they, they garden, they did all
this stuff and they were therefor over a year oh, wow and when
they were found, no one hadbeen killed.
none of the stuff that happenedin Lord of the Flied, none of

(48:01):
that stuff happened.
They cooperated, they helpedeach other.
They realized we better getback to the good angels of our
nature, because that's the onlyway we're going to survive.

Speaker 1 (48:12):
Survival depends on it.

Speaker 3 (48:14):
What I found through the research for this book was
that we can choose another path.
We don't have to go to workevery day and beat each other up
.
We don't have to take advantageof customers.
We don't have to do all thesethings, and we certainly don't
have to do it to make a ton ofprofit.
We have to make a profit, butwe don't have to make more than

(48:35):
enough.
We can do it a different way,and so that kind of is where I
got kicked into gear.
Now, in defense of all thosepeople that say what about,
though, the fact that we docompete and we do all that?
Yes, we do have a part of us.
That is that we do.
However, it's reserved for aspecific time in life when we

(48:58):
get pushed into a corner.
Yes, we fight to survive, butit's not the way we're meant to
be 24-7.
And the reason I say that isbecause our biology says it.
Our biology when we do goodthings and help each other,
we're actually gifted fromMother Nature with a little
cocktail.
She gives us a little cocktailof feel-good juice, right,
opamine, serotonin and oxytocin,and on top of that it not only

(49:22):
makes us feel good, it blockscortisol, which is the stress
hormone, and a lot of the badstuff for us, like heart disease
and depression and high bloodpressure.
And all that stuff comes fromcortisol.
And when we have that rushingthrough us 24 seven we can't
help but be fat, have bad heartsand have high blood pressure.
But when we help each other andwhen we're doing things to

(49:45):
cooperate with each other andinnovate and and all that good
stuff, we have better outcomesless depression, we live longer.
So not only are we happier,we're healthier.
So it's like mother naturescreaming at us help each other,
be of service to each other.
That's where, that's whereyou're more successful.

(50:08):
And so this was kind of my rantagainst that, so to speak.

Speaker 2 (50:15):
Beautiful and and I am not in the business world at
all, but paying attention tothings going on today what I am
seeing is that when there arebusinesses that keep their
customers in mind and go overand above to provide the service
and the support for customers,the customers show up for them.

Speaker 3 (50:36):
Yeah Right, so yeah More times than not, yes, yeah,
and, and, and.
A lot of times when they don't,it is simply because they feel
like they don't have any otheralternative.

Speaker 2 (50:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (50:47):
Yeah, when, when companies and you can usually
tell when a company ties youinto a contract and says, oh
yeah, I'm here on the dottedline, You're with us for three
years and you guys suck up anddo whatever you want.
It's like when you get on aplane and oh, okay, now you got
to follow our rules, door shut,yeah.
Same kind of thing, but again,we don't need to be that way,

(51:08):
yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:09):
No, you are absolutely right.
That's beautiful, neil.
Thank you for sharing all ofthat.
That was the little synopsis.

Speaker 3 (51:18):
It gets into more than that.
Yeah Well, some people read thebook.
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:24):
That sounds like a wonderful one.
So through all of this, do youhave any sort of life philosophy
or motto or mantra that kind ofgets you by?
That's your go-to.

Speaker 3 (51:41):
I have to say it's the last four words in that book
.
In that book, go, do some good.
Um, that's the thing I think.
That's why we're here yeah, Ilove that my mom said you're
here for a reason.
I think we're all here for areason.

Speaker 1 (51:58):
I think that's the beginning of it yeah, I think
that's our next soul sisteryshirt.
Right, right, go do some good.

Speaker 2 (52:05):
Yeah, and before I, before I moved from California,
we had a sign right at our frontdoor.
So every day when you walkedout of the door it said do some
good.
So I, I love that.
That's perfect.

Speaker 3 (52:15):
I'll get your addresses.
I do have stickers.
I'll send them to you.
But here's the deal If I sendyou a sticker, you have to put
it on something and send me apicture.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
We'll do, we'll do, we'll do, and I love it.

Speaker 3 (52:26):
I got the biggest compliment the other day.
I sent it to a friend who Iknow and she sent me a picture
and I got pride of place.
She put it over the Apple onher Mac.
You know, the big, the lit upApple on the lid of the Mac.
She put it on that and I waslike, oh my gosh, I beat out
Steve Jobs.

Speaker 1 (52:47):
Good for you.
Good for you.
Things are going to starthappening for me now.

Speaker 3 (52:52):
But yeah, I guess that would be my my.
My mantra these days is go dosome good Good.

Speaker 2 (52:58):
That's a good mantra.
And at the end of this lifetimeanyways, when your journey here
is done, how do you hope to beremembered?

Speaker 3 (53:14):
This is the tombstone question, the eulogy question.

Speaker 2 (53:18):
Yeah, yeah, not how much you made, but.

Speaker 3 (53:22):
Yeah, I don't care about that.
I guess it would be.
I would hope somebody would sayhe helped me.
He helped me be better than Ithought I could be.
If somebody says that I will,I'm done, I'm good.

Speaker 2 (53:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:38):
Good yeah that you did that.
Good, yep, you've done thatexactly yeah yeah I.

Speaker 3 (53:46):
I know that's probably a little sappy for some
folks, but no, well, not herenot here, yeah sap lives and
breathes here with abandon.

Speaker 1 (53:56):
Yeah, yeah, good yeah , yeah, yeah, you are among
friends, my friend, yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
So, donna, do you want to like take us into our
rapid fire?
Let's do it, let's do it.

Speaker 1 (54:07):
These are fun little questions, neil, that like don't
think too much about the answer, it's just whatever first comes
to mind, let's just go with itand see what it is.
Well, we say they're not hardand then people will go wow,
that was a hard one, so it won'tqualify.
It is what the meaning of theuniverse yes, well, let's see,

(54:28):
exactly okay we'll leave thatone out, okay all right, first
one, what is your walk-in song?
You know the walking onto thestage, the walking down the
pitcher's mound.
What's your walk-in song?

Speaker 3 (54:43):
well, you know, I don't four.
There are four things that cometo mind.
Okay, the first one that comesto mind is a song by bruce
springsteen called land of hopeand glory.
Yeah, and the reason for thatis there's a line, the chorus of
the song.
He says this train carries andhe reels off things like kings

(55:06):
and lost souls, and I think Iknow one of them is whores and
gamblers and one of them is likewinners and losers.
It's a list of things like that, and whenever I hear that song,
I think that's a place I wantto be.
I want to be a place whereeverybody's included.
Yeah, it doesn't matter whatyour title is, what your name is
any of that stuff, yeah.

(55:26):
Second song that comes to mindis a song by Dave Matthews
called you might die trying, andthe chorus to that song is if
you give, you begin to live andthat really I mean if you were
to ask me what's in my book andyou give, you begin to live, and

(55:47):
that really I mean.
If you were to ask me what's inmy book the giving a shit book.
In a nutshell, there you go.
If you give you begin to live,you'll be happier and healthier.
Yeah.
Then there's another song, andthis is because I love the
Beatles.
I'm just a massive beatles fan.
In fact, last year went with afriend and we went to liverpool,

(56:07):
london and hamburg to visit allthe beatles stuff nice um, and
it's the song blackbird and thefirst.
The first thing is blackbirdsinging in the dead of night.
Take these broken wings andlearn to fly.
All your life you were waitingfor this moment to arrive.
Beautiful, and although thatsong was written for the civil

(56:34):
rights movement in the US, itcarries a different meaning for
me, and that meaning is that,essentially, we're all broken
and people take that the wrongway, but we all are.
We're all broken.
None of us is perfect.
We all have stuff in our livesthat that has fractured us in
some way.
Um, but my thing is, you know,regardless of that, get up,

(56:58):
you've got something to do, moveforward.
Um.
And when he said you know, theysay you were waiting for this
moment to arrive, I say no, wewere all.
We're all waiting for thatmoment to arrive for you.
I'm waiting for that from you.
Get up, show us what you are.
Be something better than youever thought you could be, make
this world a better place.
That's to me what that soundsyeah and then the last one's not

(57:19):
a song at all, um, it's uh apiece by bach and it's the the
last movement of the brandenburgconcerto number three.
And if you don't know it, justlook it up on youtube.
Listen to that last movement,uh, because it is joy in, it's
just joy, it's just pureunadulterated joy, it is just

(57:40):
like look life.
It is so optimistic, it is sohopeful and it's there's no
words.
But you'll just feel like I cantake on the world listening to
this.

Speaker 1 (57:52):
This is it, you know you're the first person to
mention an instrumental piece ofmusic.

Speaker 3 (57:59):
I love that.
I like that Of course, from themusician.

Speaker 1 (58:02):
Yes, yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:04):
Go for it.
Sis, what book changed you?

Speaker 3 (58:09):
Oddly, it's a book that's actually sitting here and
this is going to seem like aweird book, but it's a book.
It's called the outward mindsetand it's not by a single person
, it's by the Arbinger Instituteand I didn't.
I read it, and I think in 2013or 2014.
So it was late in coming, andthe reason it changed me was

(58:31):
because, basically, the theme ofthe book is that, um, how do
you see people?
Do you see them as things or doyou see them as people?
Um, and it has influenced somuch of what I talk about and so
much of what I think aboutthese days.
Uh, great, it kind of gave mesome language to use, but also

(58:54):
makes me think.
I think, you know, when I'm withsomebody new or with somebody
I'm talking to, am I seeing themas a person or as a thing?
Yeah, am I seeing them as anobstacle?
Am I seeing them as a person,especially these days, with so
much division around us, youknow, and so many people with
views that I don't hold.
You know it's hard, you knowyou get into a situation.

(59:15):
You see somebody wearing a hator wearing, you know, wearing
something you disagree with andyou go.
I don't want to talk to them.

Speaker 2 (59:23):
Right.

Speaker 3 (59:24):
Am I seeing them as a person?
How can I better see them as aperson?
It's a challenge, you know yeah.
So in that way it kind ofchanged changed.
It didn't change me, but itvalidated a lot of things for me
, right yeah?

Speaker 2 (59:36):
Changed your focus.

Speaker 3 (59:38):
Yeah, but it also gave me some language and a way
to think about it in a way.
Yeah, it brought piecestogether.

Speaker 1 (59:44):
So yeah, yeah nice, okay, next one.
What movie lives rent-free inyour brain?

Speaker 3 (59:54):
oh, usually you know, when people say that something
lives rent-free, it's a negativeoh, oh no, I know, we mean.

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
We mean it as a you love it just as occupied and you
think about it.

Speaker 3 (01:00:05):
Okay, I'm gonna throw a couple.
Okay.
Yeah, I love movies.
Um one movie probably myfavorite movie of all time is
casablanca.
And the reason I lovecasablanca is because it's got
everything it sure does love,war, peace, hate it's got it all
.
It's got like every theme in it.
But the thing that strikes meis you know you get to the end

(01:00:29):
and good wins out.
People do the right thing whenpeople do the right thing, you
know, yeah and I love.

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
In that movie there's such, there's such scope, it's
such a large story and yet it'sa very small and intimate story
as well, and both exist and it'sjust so well done, and it's got
angry birdman in it um.

Speaker 3 (01:00:49):
The other one is a tom cruise movie and I'm not big
tom cruise guy.
A few good men, courtroom dramayeah and the thing that stands
out to me is right at the end,when, um, if you know the movie,
yes, uh, when dawson the, theguy who's being charged with

(01:01:12):
murder and is let off for murder, but he's given a court martial
anyway for not behaving like anofficer and he's about to walk
out of the room and tom cruisesays you don't have to.
you know, harold, you don't needto have stripes on your arm to
have honor.
And all of a sudden Haroldturns around and says attention,
there's an officer on deck andthey salute each other.

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
I'm like yes.

Speaker 3 (01:01:37):
It's just such a great moment of respect and
getting it.
It's like all these trappingswe put on people and all the
labels we put on mean nothing.
It's about how we treat eachother and how we respect each
other.

Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
Which speaks to your life work, so that makes perfect
sense.

Speaker 3 (01:02:00):
I say it a lot to people Love changes everything.
Yeah, it does, and that youknow that's a moment of love,
you know that's a moment of Ilove you dude.
Yeah, even though throughoutthe whole movie they're at
loggerheads, right, but wow,yeah, anyway, okay, so those are

(01:02:20):
a couple Beautiful Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:02:24):
What did you love doing as a kid that you still
love doing today?

Speaker 3 (01:02:28):
oh, I can tell you a bunch of things I'd the other
way oh, no, no, no, no, I likedoing yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:02:37):
oh, that's a toughie yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:02:49):
Animals, animals.
I have always just absolutelyloved dogs, cats, you name it.
I to this day can't watch amovie that has a theme around an
animal because I know somewherein it something horrible is
going to happen.
So I can't see that.
It's torture to me.

Speaker 2 (01:03:16):
I have to peek ahead and I go online and make sure
that the animal lives, OtherwiseI can't finish the movie.

Speaker 3 (01:03:22):
I can't even see him suffer.
Yeah, no, um, and what's?
I guess the maybe the sad partof that is I can watch people
get blown away on TV all thetime, but I can't see an animal.

Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
anything happened to him, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:03:34):
I have to either turn away, like those ads come up,
you know, with Sarah McLachlansinging in the background, or
whatever, and yeah or whoeverI'm like.
Okay, change the channel untilthat ad is over.

Speaker 2 (01:03:44):
Yeah, for sure, you're not alone.

Speaker 3 (01:03:47):
So but yeah, that love, love for animals and being
around animals and stopping foranimals, I still do that.

Speaker 1 (01:03:56):
Yeah, well, that's gorgeous, so what?
You know, it is it is beautiful, that love and that connection,
because of course you knowanimals are right there, pure,
and they're innocent and they'reunconditional.

Speaker 3 (01:04:09):
Which isn't really true.
They need to be fed.

Speaker 1 (01:04:11):
Well, yes, yes.

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
Well, yes, yeah, but they still love.

Speaker 3 (01:04:16):
Yeah, it's about the closest to unconditional that we
can get.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:04:23):
Yeah, unconditional, that we can get yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:04:24):
Yeah, okay.
So what in your world islighting you up right now,
positively or negatively, orboth either.

Speaker 1 (01:04:29):
Well, however, you receive that question, I guess.

Speaker 3 (01:04:33):
Uh, current political state lights me up negatively.
Um, some of the things that aregoing on that I just don't
agree with but I don't want toget into, yeah, you are in
perfect company here.
Things that light me uppositively are.
I think a lot of what'shappening is waking some people

(01:04:53):
up to what might be reallyimportant in life.

Speaker 1 (01:04:56):
Amen, amen, amen yeah .

Speaker 3 (01:04:58):
Yeah, stop.

Speaker 1 (01:04:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:04:59):
To stop making everything about profit and loss
.

Speaker 1 (01:05:03):
Oh my gosh, isn't that the truth?

Speaker 3 (01:05:05):
That yeah Life.
You know, there's a biologicalreason we're here and that's to
reprocreate.
But there's a subjective, avery subjective reason we're
here.
You know a transformativereason that we're here a
transcendent reason, shall wesay you transformative reason
that, yeah, we're here.
A transcendent reason, shall wesay, you know, and that's about

(01:05:25):
all that stuff you can't measureand we spend so much time over
indexed on what we can measureoh gosh, yeah, and we don't
think about.
There's so much in life that'sso important that you can't
measure.
There's a great line in um thedead poet society movie, if you
know that movie I was just whenwe were talking a minute ago.

Speaker 1 (01:05:46):
It was the movie in my brain, so so he you know
where he says um to the boys.

Speaker 3 (01:05:51):
He says you know um engineering medicine.
All these things are noblepursuits.
But art, music, love drama.

Speaker 2 (01:05:59):
That's why we live yeah there's.

Speaker 3 (01:06:02):
There are things that help us live, and then there's
things that we live for live forand we've we something, I don't
know.
We seem to forget all that andwe everything's got to be
measured and everything's got tobe, and then all of a sudden,
something happens and people gowait a minute you know, love and
art and drama and music, andthere's things that that's why I

(01:06:22):
live, that's what I do.
People go home.
Wait a minute.
Yeah, love, art and drama andmusic, and there's things that
that's why I live, that's what Ido.
People go home at night andthey play in a garage band,
right, and they make zero moneydoing it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:30):
Zero, they love it.

Speaker 3 (01:06:31):
But they love it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
Yeah, yeah, okay, what color is hope?

Speaker 1 (01:06:51):
purple purple what does hope sound like?

Speaker 3 (01:06:58):
Bach Brandenburg, concerto number three.
I was going to say I can't, Isaid it, I can't, I mean, it's
just so.
Or maybe even the ItalianConcerto, Bach's Italian
Concerto, which is for solokeyboard.
It's again so optimistic and sohopeful and it seems to say the
world can be better than we canimagine.

Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
So Bach speaks to you .

Speaker 3 (01:07:21):
Yes, Well he's one among many.
Yeah, yeah, bach speaks to you.
Yes, well, he's one among many.

Speaker 2 (01:07:24):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Service is what.

Speaker 3 (01:07:29):
Helping people.
Okay, all right, it's not bigand fancy, I have to tell you no
but that's okay.
People think it is.
People put these big giantdefinitions.
It's like no man, it's justhelping people.

Speaker 2 (01:07:42):
Yeah, so you know, if hope is, you know, if hope is
found through service, then hopeis found through helping people
, and I think that's very.

Speaker 3 (01:07:53):
We make hope happen by helping others.
Yeah, hope is excuse me, hope isaction is one of the I think,
one of the key things thatyou've said here and we
absolutely agree with you, andthis is interesting because this
morning and I'm probablypushing time here but if you
look at compassion I talk aboutcompassion in the book
Compassion is an awareness ofneed or suffering coupled to a

(01:08:18):
desire to help.
And if you think, you know, alot of people think hope.
A lot of people talk about hopebeing like optimism.
No, optimism is more likeempathy.
Empathy is, you know, you putyourself in the shoes of another
, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,but you don't have to do
anything.
Yeah, I can look at you and sayI know how that feels, but I
don't have to do anything.
Compassion means you've got todo something.

(01:08:38):
Well, optimism I can say, well,yeah, things are going to work
out, it's going to be a greatworld, but I don't have to do
anything.
But hope says, no, you got todo something.

Speaker 2 (01:08:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:08:47):
And compassion says you got to do something.

Speaker 2 (01:08:49):
Yeah Right, you can't just sit back, I love that.

Speaker 1 (01:08:52):
I love that, all right.
So then, hope is complete thatstatement.
Hope is Complete that statement.

Speaker 3 (01:09:02):
Hope is the belief, and belief is a big deal, but
it's the belief that Everythingaround us can get better.
Yeah, and I can influence that,I can contribute to it.

Speaker 1 (01:09:18):
Yeah, oh God, what an important piece that is and I
can contribute to it.
Yeah, I can make that choice.
I can make that choice.

Speaker 3 (01:09:23):
Yeah, oh God, what an important piece that is, and I
can contribute to it.
Yeah, I can make that choice Ican make that choice?

Speaker 2 (01:09:27):
Yeah, okay, well, before we wrap up, neil, I just
I know you shared your book, youshared the teachings you're
doing.
You do a lot of traveling, itsounds like.
How can people find you?
Is there a Facebook page, awebsite?

Speaker 3 (01:09:44):
You know I'm I'm on LinkedIn linkedin.
Obviously that's a great placeto connect and just dial me up
n-e-a-l-w-o-o-d-s-o-n and it'simportant that you put the a in.
Everybody likes n-e-i-l, butyeah my mom and dad decided to
go with the welsh spelling.
Yes, well, I'm donna with yes.

Speaker 1 (01:09:58):
Well, I'm Donna with one N, so I can have the same
life that I do.

Speaker 3 (01:10:05):
You can go to my website and that's very easy.
Neil Woodson, all one word.
N E A L W O O D S O N dot net.
Dot net, notcom, it's anet, andthere you can find links to my
book.
You can find out more about me.
I blog once a week and there'salways a post in there.
There's probably four or 500 inthere.

(01:10:25):
Now, if you can go back andsearch and find all kinds of
things, great Um.
And if you want to reach out tome, you can reach out to me at
service coach, one at gmailcom.
Service coach all one word, one, the number one at gmailcom.
That's a place you can reach meif you want to.

Speaker 2 (01:10:45):
Great and your.
Your books are those on yourwebsite.

Speaker 3 (01:10:49):
Yes, they both are and you can get them both at
most.
You know most of the placeswhere you get books, but a great
place to get books is what's itcalled Bookshop Okay, which
supports a lot of independentgreat, yes, stores and things
like that.

Speaker 1 (01:11:05):
We love that.
Neil.
We want to thank you so muchfor taking time today to to
spend with us, share with us umyour insights, what you're doing
, who you are.
It's been a real joy for us toshare this time with you and get
to know you and call you partof the soul sisterhood.

Speaker 2 (01:11:25):
So thank you, thank you yes.

Speaker 3 (01:11:28):
Well, it's nice to be an honorary sister.

Speaker 2 (01:11:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:11:32):
I really, I really appreciate it.
It's great to get to know you.
I hope we see each other again,yeah absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:11:38):
And again thanks.

Speaker 3 (01:11:40):
Thanks, kirk.
Thanks for inviting me, andit's been an absolute pleasure.

Speaker 1 (01:11:44):
A big shout out to our Kirk.
Thanks, kirk for bringing usall together.

Speaker 2 (01:11:48):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:50):
We appreciate y'all.
So thank you, Neil, and youknow, go do some good, my friend
.

Speaker 2 (01:11:56):
Yes, go, do some good , as we all will.
Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (01:12:02):
Thanks for joining us today on Soul Sisteries and
thanks for sharing stories withus.
We'd love to hear your storiesas well and keep the
conversation going, Absolutelykeeping the hope going.
So we're really hopeful thatyou'll connect with our guests
as well, who have great storiesto share.
Go ahead and follow them invarious social media platforms

(01:12:22):
or live venues, wherever it isthat they're performing and
sharing what they do.

Speaker 2 (01:12:28):
We would love to have you follow us on all of our
social media platforms,subscribe and rate, as that will
help us get our message of hopeout to others.
Thanks for listening to.

Speaker 1 (01:12:38):
Soul Sisteries.

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Going Beyond Customer Service: A Life Dedicated to Helping Others - Neal Woodson

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Going Beyond Customer Service: A Life Dedicated to Helping Others - Neal Woodson