Healing After Narcissistic Abuse: Why Recovery Is Possible Faster Than You Think with Ronia Fraser

🎙️ LIVE Podcast Episode | December 30th @ 11 AM ESTJoin me for a powerful live conversation with Ronia Fraser, multi-award-winning Trauma Recovery Coach, Clinical Hypnotherapist, and one of the world’s leading experts in Narcissistic Abuse Recovery.A survivor herself, Ronia brings both deep clinical expertise and lived experience to this discussion as we explore the realities of narcissistic abuse, complex trauma, and the path to true recovery. Since 2017, she has helped survivors around the globe reclaim their mental health, identity, and inner authority through her pioneering, structured approach to trauma healing.In this episode, you’ll learn why experiencing narcissistic abuse is not the end of the road—and how, with the right support and tools, recovery is possible far faster than most people believe.📺 Live streaming on YouTube, Facebook, and Riverside🎥 Riverside Studio: https://riverside.com/studio/amanda-m...🔗 Learn more about Ronia: www.roniafraser.com📘 Free eBook: How to Heal from Narcissistic Abuse – https://ebook.roniafraser.com/howtohealfromnarcissisticabuse

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hello, hello, soulful seekers. Welcome back.
No longer trauma and transcendence.
You know that we've had a quick rebrand and here we are episode
2 already and you are now at Soul Rain.
It is the same show, same vibe, different name.
And the purpose here is for you to reign your soul.

(00:22):
I want you to have your sovereignty, and that's what
these episodes are about. Today we have an incredible
guest for Sovereignty. I have the wonderful Coach
Rock'n'roll Ronnie, and she's primarily an expert in her field
of overcoming and healing and narcissistic abuse.

(00:44):
Welcome, Ronnie. Rock'n'roll coach Ronnie.
Wait, look, Coach Ronnie, that'sright.
You have had an incredible year this year.
One, I know because I'm a student, I'm in some of your
classes, so I've had the awesomeexperience of learning and
training with you. I see you at conferences, you've
got so many speaking engagements.

(01:05):
It's been just beautiful to watch you this year.
And then your book is was that this year as well?
It was released end of last year, I believe.
Yeah. But yeah, I mean, 2025, it was
hard, I'm not going to lie. I think it was a pretty hard
year for all of us in some sort of way, right?

(01:27):
The year of the snake and all. But as you just said, it's been,
it's been pretty, pretty amazing, yeah.
Productive. You've gotten a lot done.
So that was a very full 2025 foryou.
What got you? Started in the path of healing
narcissistic abuse. Well, I mean, Needless to say,

(01:48):
you don't really end up in this line of work unless it has
happened to you. So I'm a survivor of
narcissistic abuse myself. And yeah, almost 10 years ago
now, I was basically living my dream life in LA, California at
the time. And I got involved with the

(02:08):
wrong man again. And what I would later realize
was it wasn't the first time. It was just the worst time.
And that time would, you know, cost me literally everything.
And it cost me my job, it cost me my house.
It cost me my health, my sanity,and it almost cost me my life.
And as a result of that, I was very much struggling with my

(02:31):
mental health. And I was very committed to
getting better. And I would go to therapy
religiously every week, every week and every week.
Nothing changed. And at times, it felt like it
was even getting worse. And if you're anything like me,
right, you put your time, your money, your effort, your tears

(02:53):
into something you want to get results.
And I wasn't getting any. So I got really frustrated.
And when I brought that up with my therapist, who who was
lovely, like really lovely, and I was so grateful to have her,
but she said to me, well, unfortunately that's what your
life is like now and it's something you need to accept and

(03:16):
we need to find ways to manage it.
And I was at a point in my life where I couldn't have promised
you I'd still be alive tomorrow.So it wasn't a state of being I
could just accept. And that's when I went out there
basically on a mission, really to find something that could
reverse the damage as effectively as it was caused.

(03:37):
And I didn't know what I was looking for, obviously, but I
knew that something had happenedto me.
I didn't know what it was exactly because back then
narcissistic abuse wasn't reallya thing.
But I knew something had happened to me that turned me
into this mess. So clearly, if it goes one way,
there has to be a way for it to go the other way.
And that became my my mission tofind that something.

(04:01):
And I guess because I was reallyat a point in my life where I
had nothing left to lose, I was able to just go all in because
honestly, if I had died in the process of finding this
something, I would have been OK with that as well.
But of course, you know, my motivation was to, to live.

(04:21):
And I did find what I was looking for.
And once I did, you know, I found things like coaching and
NLP and hypnosis. And once I did, I was post
traumatic stress symptom free within five months.
And that was without any specialist application.
And that's how I then, you know,became what I am now.

(04:48):
That's why I do what I do now, because unfortunately the whole
mainstream narrative when we go and look for help hasn't changed
much in in all that time. So.
At what point in that journey did you start to get coordinates
of oh this is narcissistic abuse?

(05:10):
That took quite a while because narcissistic abuse wasn't a
thing at that time. Like narcissistic abuse didn't
mean anything. I was the first person pretty
much talking about narcissistic abuse professionally, probably
in all of Europe. I was U KS first narcissistic
abuse recovery coach. I was the one who made-up the
term Narcissistic Abuse RecoveryCoaching because I had to call

(05:33):
myself something. And I mean, nowadays it's just a
job title, but I actually thought something about it
because if you think about it, Narcissistic Abuse Recovery
Coach, the acronym is narc. So it's a subliminal reframe
from something bad to something good.
Like I actually thought about that.
So back then, it really wasn't that much of a thing.

(05:56):
It was like one book I remember which was called Psychopath
Free. So where the experience was
referred to having been abused by a psychopath.
And of course we know that psychopaths are on the same
spectrum. But of course, not every
narcissist is a psychopath. And I cannot even remember how I

(06:19):
picked up on the word narcissistbecause obviously the meaning of
it has significantly changed since since then, it has evolved
from what it originally was. And I guess I was just fortunate
that the terminology picked was picked up on, you know, because

(06:39):
then all of a sudden narcissistic abuse became a
thing. And over the last, I don't know,
three years or something. I mean, it's, it's gotten a
whole life on its own, right. On my own journey through
therapy, it was very rarely the therapists that were able to
inform me of that. And what I noticed is if they
haven't experienced it, that's not even on their radar.

(07:02):
They have no idea. They think, oh, it's just you're
just dealing with a difficult person.
No, it's not just a difficult. Person no.
I mean, that's a big disconnect,not only with professionals,
right? That's also disconnect with
family and with friends because narcissistic abuse is one of the
things, unless it has happened to you, your brain cannot even
comprehend the horrors. I think nowadays it's a little

(07:25):
bit better because there is justso much more awareness around
the topic. It's.
Almost the other extreme, it's almost like now there's a
saturation and it's starting to lose the meaning because people
are straying too far. I know, I know.
And that's a that's a lot of thework that I do now actually,
because like the first few years, it was really about

(07:46):
knocking on doors and just keeping talking, talking,
talking about it and listen to me.
And then now, especially on social media, it's almost at the
turning point where people are just so tired of the word
narcissist. Everyone all of a sudden is a
narcissist. Every relationship that breaks
up was abusive. Of course, that's not not the
case. So a big part of my work now is

(08:08):
actually raining that back in and, you know, still talking
about it, but even more with theemphasis of talking about it in
the right way because a lot of the content that's out there and
there's so much content now, buta lot of it is not very
beneficial at all. It's misinformation.
It's really bad linguistically. You know, it comes from people

(08:31):
that haven't done their healing.So the energy that's attached to
that content is really bad and really hindering to, to the
recovery because oftentimes it comes from pain, hurt, from
bitterness, from resentment, from hate.
And of course, those are energies, especially as empath,
we don't want to engage in because we pick up on, on those

(08:54):
those energies. So it's very, very important
that we keep talking about it, but we need to we need to do it
in the right way. And there's also a big
difference between what's happening on social media.
I mean, narcissistic abuse, I think is the third trending,
most trending hashtag on TikTok.I'm not on TikTok, which I

(09:17):
really should, but you know, time and so on social media,
it's this massive big thing. But in the real world it
actually isn't because that's why the survivors still struggle
to find help. You know, they are still
misunderstood. Even with my speaking
engagements, you know, I can seehow it has moved towards the the

(09:42):
mainstream. You know, like now I speak at
big trauma conferences, but that's new.
You know, like 2 years ago, three years ago, I wouldn't have
had that stage where is now I do.
So there is a bit of a disconnect between what's
happening online and what what'shappening in, in the real world
where online it's already almostover the top, you know, where

(10:04):
people lose interest. Whereas in the real world, we
are only just starting out like that platform, that
understanding that interest is only happening right now
actually. And there's a weird thing that
I've noticed happening in that the people who are talking about
it are not often always the oneswho've had the experience of it.

(10:24):
And those that are in the middleof it, they have no idea.
They don't use those terms. They don't know what it is to be
gas lit, but it's happening to them every day.
Yeah, that's, that's really wild.
It's also when you're in it, right?
You have your blinkers on because your brain cannot even
comprehend what you're experiencing.
You cannot make sense of it. And I think all of us who have

(10:45):
experienced narcissistic abuse can remember knowing that
something is very wrong, not being able to figure out what it
was. But actually, I mean, I remember
I thought I was the problem. You know, I was, I was living in
Lai was very much involved in the whole like Hollywood's, you
know, thing. And I just thought, Oh well,

(11:08):
Hollywood got to me after all. And I really thought that I just
turned out to be 1 of L as fallen angels.
And it didn't even occur to me that I had been abused until, I
can't even remember how long that took, probably a few months
after I had gotten out. Up until that point, I thought,

(11:32):
well, I just lost it, you know, and Hollywood gets to you
eventually. Like, nobody gets out there
without being affected by it. But it didn't even occur to me,
even though all the things that he did, looking back now, you
know, it was so obvious. It was in plain sight, but

(11:53):
because it's part of the gaslighting as well, right?
Because your reality is so distorted and you're dealing
with somebody who supposedly is the closest person to you.
So you initially don't even havereason to not trust them because
those are the last people you would think would do something
bad to you. So it's very, very common.

(12:16):
And I think everyone who has experienced narcissistic abuse
had to go, what is still going through that?
Like that realization. And then of course, it comes a
lot with anger, with self blame,Like how did I not see this and
all of those kind of things. So it's quite complex actually.
The trauma bond, we're going to have to come back to that in a

(12:38):
moment, but the trauma bond is devastating, absolutely
devastating. Now I experienced it differently
in hindsight, my first husband may have had some traits.
I don't know that I would go full out and call him that.
I'm, I'm not and I'm not able todiagnose people.
So my experience was more in terms of my family of origin,

(13:00):
which is a little bit different,but there were a lot of those
things and the trauma bond. I see it now when I see people
trying to leave in meshed familydynamics.
But we'll, we'll circle back around to that.
But I want to ask because I knowpeople are going to be
listening. And that was my experience too.
Of there must be something wrongwith me.
It's me, I'm the problem, I'm the common denominator.

(13:22):
What is wrong with me? And then I'd go into like a full
on emotional flashback shame spiral.
And it's a devastating place to be.
And it is very, very dangerous for the reasons that you'd
already talked about. What were some of the earlier
signs that started to show you that something had happened to
you? Like, how were you responding

(13:42):
and identifying of this? Is this is unhealthy or there's
something not right here? Well, my, my mental health
pretty much tanked overnight andI wasn't familiar with mental
health challenges at that point.I mean, we, you know, everybody
has like ups and downs, but I was not familiar with anxiety or

(14:03):
depression. I wasn't familiar with suicidal
thoughts. I was literally not functioning.
I had physical withdrawal symptoms.
Like when he wasn't around, I would physically shake.
Like my body would shake. I couldn't sleep anymore and I
basically lost all sense of reality.
And it happened so quick. Like there was number subtle,

(14:26):
like going into this, it's just it was like a crash and burn
kind of thing. So I very quickly realized that
something was very, very wrong. But of course I had no idea what
I was dealing with. And my friends also could tell
that something was very, very wrong because all of a sudden I
was a complete mess. I was behaving totally out of

(14:47):
character. I was all of a sudden this crazy
woman, you know, and we've all have experienced the, the crazy
woman, you know, who's hysterical, who starts fights,
who's really jealous. And I used to be like this
really, you know, like cool chilled rock chick.

(15:09):
And then all of a sudden I was the one who was causing havoc
because of, of course, the situations he put me in.
But, you know, nobody would makethose connections because all
they see is your be your behavior.
And I remember my friends tryingto talk to me and like, what's
going on with you? Like, what are you doing?

(15:29):
And I'm like, well, I, I don't know.
I can feel that something is wrong with me, but I really
don't know, don't know what it is.
And because you already mentioned the the trauma bond, I
can remember, especially in the beginning when I didn't have the
language to express what was going on, I said I don't know
what's wrong with me. I feel like an addict.

(15:51):
I feel like he is my drug. And I also behaved like an like
an addict, of course. I'm surprised that we called it
the trauma bond. I mean, that's the perfect term,
but it's almost like Stockholm, you know, it's it behaves kind
of in the same way when someone's love their resources,

(16:14):
connection, safety all comes from one person.
Even if it's like not real safety, it's perceived safety.
But when it all? Comes home syndrome is, is a
form of trauma bond. It's like the the most well
known form of, of trauma bonding.
Yeah. And and that's just it, but so I
think, I guess the relationship dynamics is what makes it

(16:37):
different. Stockholm that usually is
because it's a parent, it's usually a family member.
It's been happening since early childhood.
And I think that's why we calledit trauma bond.
But what I want to explain just to the audience so that they
understand this well, is it occurs when all of the good
resources or the things that youperceive as good are coming from

(16:58):
one person. This person that loves you,
cares for you, takes care of you, feeds you all of those
things. And then that's also the person
that is then causing harm. And the brain doesn't understand
that. It can't handle that concept.
So it's hard to identify the abuse when that happens in that
way. So the trauma bond that Ronnie's

(17:19):
talking about is one of the moredifficult things, I think, for a
lot of people who have dating and romantic relationships or
even friendships to break. Well, it's the same with
families, right? Because it's a chemical reaction
in the brain. So it doesn't only feel like an
addiction, it is an actual addiction.
So another word for trauma bond is also love addiction.

(17:42):
And I mean, anybody who's ever been in love knows that love is
literally the highest high thereis.
And as you just said, that person who gives you all of
those good feelings, right? All this oxytocin, all this
dopamine, all the serotonin is also the same person who takes
it away and puts you basically in a life threatening situation.

(18:03):
And the brain gets misregulated with the the chemicals that are
flooded in in the brain. And that's how this is an actual
chemical reaction. So it's not like, you know, I
mean, we all know people that shouldn't be in that
relationship, that shouldn't be working in that job, that should

(18:24):
have not, you know, should have cut off that family member
already, but they just can't bring themselves to do it or
they keep going back. And when somebody is trauma
bonded, it literally has nothingto do with a lack of willpower
because we are dealing with chemicals in in the brain and
that's outside of of the willpower.

(18:46):
And that's what makes it also sochallenging to disconnect
because we are dealing with an actual addiction here.
And I think once we become awareof that, that makes the recovery
so much easier because we know how to actually address it
rather than blindly trying to figure it out.

(19:07):
And you know, using willpower toto stay away when the brain is
just not complying with that at all.
Yeah, that whole body is on a chemical cocktail, so much more
than you know, than just the positive feelings.
It absolutely is addiction. I'm impressed that in the

(19:27):
moments that you were away, yourbody would start to shake.
It's like your nervous system knew, oh, I can start to
decompress and shake it off. Mine did not.
Wow. I don't think, I don't think it
was the I don't think it was decompression at all.
It was like literal physical withdrawal.
Wow. Yeah, I find that, yeah, I find

(19:48):
that so different. So when I think about like when
my body shakes, for me that's a nervous system response of, OK,
we just went through something. At least that's I've never had
it in the way that you were describing.
Yeah, and I did Tre trauma release exercise and my body,

(20:09):
I've only been able to get it into this shaking releasing
state once. So when I, you know, talk about
I was shaking on my in my whole whole body.
It definitely wasn't a trauma release like it was.
It was like a proper withdrawal response in in the body.
I've not done. Tre, I don't have experience

(20:31):
with it. Could you explain a little bit
what it is for the listeners? So Tre trauma release exercise
or tension release exercise, like they, they use both, both
names is where the you, you put the body in a certain position
where it will naturally start vibrating, like your muscles

(20:53):
will start shaking. And it sounds very
uncomfortable, but actually it'snot at all.
It's, it's actually quite pleasant.
And what it helps to do is releasing the tension because
obviously when we store trauma in our body, you know, we are
very, very tense. And animals, for example, when
they have a traumatic experience, they just just shake

(21:14):
it off. We've all seen it right, in
animal documentaries and, and whatever.
But as humans, we kind of lost that.
Not that we lost the strategy, but we're not, it's not an
automated response that we that we have.
So what Tre allows us to do is actually create this release in

(21:36):
the, the muscles in, in the body.
So to release that the tension that the trauma has caused.
So I've only encountered things like that when doing breath
work. Typically that was what we
practice 1st and then we go intothe breath work.
And I think that's what made it that much deeper and effective.
So I appreciate you explaining that.

(21:57):
That just made a whole bunch of sense to that first breath work
experience that I'd had. Yeah.
And so after you finally got thecoordinates, you had an
understanding of what this was, you began to inform yourself and
get educated. What was that process like for
you? Well, as I said, back then it
was very difficult to get information because there wasn't

(22:19):
really anything out there. It didn't exist on social media.
There were a couple of books, but nothing really.
And it was a bit like, you know,putting puzzle pieces together.
But then it also very quickly turned into the snowball.
And I remember the one thing that made the biggest difference
when I went like, oh, wow, this is what's happening here was

(22:42):
when I stumbled across the word gas lighting.
And gas lighting already existed.
It wasn't used like it is now tothe extent because it was what
word of the year 2022 or something, you know?
So again, a word that's constantly misused nowadays.
But I accidentally stumbled across gaslighting and I was

(23:04):
like, Oh my goodness, it actually wasn't me.
Because that's the whole thing, right?
That's like part of the game. Your your reality gets distorted
to such an extent that nothing you remember seems to be true.
And then, of course, this is incredibly destabilizing because
you lose all trust in in yourself and you lose the

(23:26):
connection to reality because you don't remember what is
actually true, what happened, what didn't happen.
You know, you're being accused of saying or doing things where
you go, like I said that it doesn't even sound like me,
like, what is wrong with me, right?
And when I stumbled across gaslighting, that was so

(23:47):
incredibly insightful because that gave me the permission to
go like, hold on a second, thereis nothing wrong with me.
This actually was orchestra traded by somebody and my
response to it was a natural response.
And then from then on, you know,it kind of was like putting the
puzzle pieces together and it went from gaslighting to

(24:09):
narcissistic abuse psychopath, then into the whole trauma
research, complex trauma neuroscience, like I read like
medical journals, all those kindof things.
And I mean, I think pretty much every narcissistic abuse
survivor goes through those motions.

(24:29):
I haven't met a single one of uswho couldn't write APHD on the
topic. But then it's very, very
important to understand that this is only a very, very small
part of the journey because we can have all the in depth
knowledge, but if we keep it alljust to the cognitive function
of the brain, no actual healing is happening.

(24:50):
And that's where a lot of peopleget stuck.
And I, I was stuck there for, for a while as well because I
didn't even know that healing would go further than that.
And but once I had that realization, that's, that was
when the shift really started happening.
Because once you start practicalhealing work, there is no going

(25:14):
back from that. Whereas as long as you focus
only on the theoretical, you mayhave the knowledge, but you're
still not feeling better. And another danger is that you
feel safer because you think you've figured it all out, but
then you know you just run into a different shade of narcissist
that you haven't experienced yet.

(25:34):
And all of a sudden, you'll findyourself in the same situation
again. Yeah, that that phenomenon is
the worst. It's just the worst.
And you think that, OK, I'm not gonna date that kind of person
again. And then you end up getting a
boss that way or a Co worker that way, or you find a new
friendship and it's those same patterns again.

(25:57):
And it will always be the same patterns, right?
Until you actually do something about it.
And you're the only one who can who can change that.
So no matter how much how much you read about it, no much how
how much in depth knowledge you have, that's not where the
actual healing healing happens. So when you began your

(26:20):
education, did you start with coaching?
Did you start with hypnotherapy?What was the the order of that?
The first thing I stumbled across was coaching and that was
actually, I wasn't interested in, you know, becoming a coach
or anything, but it was a really, really hot summer and I

(26:44):
had this top floor flat in London and I was just sitting
there and sweaty and UK no ACS, right.
And this AD popped up on my Facebook because somebody had
liked the coaching Academy, which is a coach, a big coaching
provider in in the UK. And it, you know, was basically
an ad for weekend. Learn the skills of life

(27:08):
coaching. And I'm like, well, I guess
that's interesting. Better than sitting here
sweating because it was a fantasy hotels.
I was like, I bet they have AC. And that was actually my
motivation to go there. And I mean, at that point in
time, I wasn't working. I felt really bad about myself.
You know, I was feeling sorry for myself.

(27:30):
So it was kind of like better sitting there than sitting at
home and the AC, of course. And then I went there and it was
a very, very basic life coaching, but it was very
practical. And of course it was a sales
event, but it didn't feel like asales event.
And we had to practice on each other.
And what that did, even though it was just really basic

(27:53):
coaching, was it shifted my focus back on to myself because
up until that point, you know, it was all about what had
happened. It was all about the guy.
It was was all about reading about narcissists and what that
did was it shifted my focus and it instantly made me feel
better. And so the first day I was like,

(28:14):
this is interesting. The second day my brain started
thinking, how can I incorporate this into what I'm already doing
and maybe eventually shift out because I used to be ACPA, I'm
still a CPA, but you know, I hadthis finance career and I was
kind of like, you know, how can I build it in there but maybe

(28:34):
eventually shift out of that. On the third day, I had my
application interview and then ten days later I actually
incorporated my first company. So that thing was a complete
game changer. And through the coaching
training, I learned about NLP and then did my NLP training,

(28:57):
NLP master training through NLPI, found hypnosis.
Then I went off and did I don't know how many hypnosis trainings
and I got completely sidetrackedactually.
And within the shortest period of time, I had put my finance
career aside and I was like, no,I'm going to do narcissistic
abuse recovery. And back then you weren't

(29:19):
supposed to use those kind of tools for for trauma.
But as I told you, I was on thismission to find something and I
literally just took the tools that I was given and I did what
I needed to do. And luckily my brain is wired in
a way where I was able to put ittogether in a very, very

(29:40):
structured, structured way. And yeah, they did have AC.
So like the original intention was, was fulfilled, but it
actually turned into a complete,complete life changer.
Literally. I'm really grateful you were
uncomfortable that day and that's what pushed you to get
started. It's always the craziest little

(30:02):
synchronicities. But I think either way you vote,
you would have been this. I can't imagine you being
anything else. And I'm so glad because now here
you are and you offer trainings every single year.
I came through your certified hypnotist training, the trauma
informed, it was fantastic. It was beautifully put together.
You did an exceptional job. And, and this, mind you, this is

(30:25):
after I'd already done several years of an educational facility
called Sweetheart Southwest Institute of Healing Arts, and I
spent about four years there andI still learned things.
So that's really saying something.
And you've got more trainings coming up.
Do you want to tell us a little bit about those?

(30:46):
Sure. So I have a whole certified
narcissistic abuse recovery coaching training, which is
particularly for the purpose of narcissistic abuse recovery
because it is just such a huge topic and it's so relevant and
it has happened to so many of us.
And I can't do it all on my own.I'm also not everybody's cup of

(31:10):
tea, which is absolutely fine. And the work is just no, no, no,
but it's, it's fine, you know, but that's why it's important
for me to train other people, you know, because, you know,
some people like a more direct approach, other people might
need a bit more fluff. I'm not the fluffiest kind of
person, you know, things like that.

(31:32):
So it's for me, it's very, very important to get the the tools
out there because as I said, I can't do it all on my own.
And the demand is there and it'sso much, so much needed.
And basically the program consists of various modules
which can be taken individually because not everybody who wants

(31:56):
to work in trauma wants to work with narcissistic abuse.
So I very consciously took that apart because at the end of the
day, what we are dealing with iscomplex post traumatic stress.
And the approach that I've developed is minimizing the
impact, the symptoms of complex post traumatic stress within as

(32:18):
little as six sessions, right. So that is not specific to
narcissistic abuse. Is really profound because I
know people who've spent years. I remember when I first got
diagnosed with complex PTSD, Yeah, My initial thought was,
oh, my God, my life is over. I'm gonna have to live with this
for the rest of my life. I mean, it's also, that's also
what a lot of people get told, right?

(32:39):
I mean, I was told that I was told I would need to take
medication for the rest of my life.
And a part of my abuse was actually that I was drugged.
So taking drugs for something that was kind of caused by drugs
wasn't an option for me. So but, but I was told the same
thing, you know, broken beyond repair, a lost 'cause I had a

(33:02):
therapist who went like, oh, I'mat a loss for words.
I'm like, you had a loss for words.
What do you mean? Don't you deal with this every
day? And she says to me, well, yes, I
do, but you're an extremely sad case.
I mean, Needless to say, I neverwent back there, you know?
I don't think that was helpful to hear that either.
I can't imagine hearing that would be like, great, let's get

(33:24):
to. Work and you're so vulnerable as
well, right? And so that's why it's important
that we do have those tools available and that's why why I
provide the training. And you know, it's survivors
that want to help other people with their experience.

(33:45):
It's medical professionals because they would like to help
their clients better therapist, coaches, hypnotherapist.
And at the end of the day, as I said, we're dealing with complex
post traumatic stress. And the common narrative is just
like this is this lifelong condition, and there is nothing
that really can be done about it.

(34:07):
But actually with the right tools and the right support,
recovery is possible. And it's actually so much easier
than you would would think. So that's what my training is
designed to do. And that's recovery in under 6
months to a year, which is wild,depending on how the person is

(34:28):
ready to do, you know, I mean, if they need to take their time,
they take their time. But if they're ready, it can be
under six months. I mean, when somebody is ready,
they are ready, right, Then it almost doesn't matter what tools
you give them because they will do what they need to do.
It's also important to say that we're not doing magic right?
Like this is healing work. And healing work doesn't have to

(34:51):
be like fast and it's everybody in their own time.
And you got to put a work in, right?
Like nobody's going to do the work for you.
But as I said, if you have the right support, if you have
guidance, if you have practical tools that actually allow you to
access the damage where it was caused rather than just trying

(35:15):
to rationalize your way out of it, it makes the biggest
difference. And it's not like your recovery
journey is just going to all of a sudden come to an end.
Because once we go on this journey, it's a never ending
journey and life will always happen.
You will always meet people thatpush your buttons.
You know, like any kind of relationship with another human

(35:37):
being is bound to trigger you insome sort of way.
And The thing is, some of those triggers are valid.
And I think once people are on the healing journey, as soon as
something feels uncomfortable, they go like, Oh my God, I need
to fix myself. So some of those triggers are
valid. Sometimes we are supposed to be
sad. Sometimes we're supposed to be

(35:59):
angry. You know, it's uncomfortable,
but it's the right emotional response to the situation.
But then, of course, if we have triggers that result in
overreactions, then the healing work continues.
But a beautiful thing is once you've embarked on this journey,
you also build a network. And then when something comes

(36:22):
up, you know, you just call somebody and go like, hey, I had
this coming up, can we sort it out?
And the whole resistance to it falls away where you didn't
actually end up, you know, actually having fun with it,
even with the uncomfortable moments.
Because what you realize is, hold on a second.
I'm actually the one who's in incontrol here, you know?

(36:44):
Hold my coffee, I'm about to shatter another glass ceiling.
Exactly. And sometimes it can be a bit
frustrating, right? Because you go like, does it
ever stop? And it doesn't, you know, but
it's just the way it's the most liberating gift you can, you can
give yourself. And so when I say I facilitate

(37:07):
recovery in as little as six sessions, that means what I help
people do is regain their mentalhealth, get their feedback on
the ground, they regain their agency, they are fully
functioning again. Is this the end of the journey?
No, it's not. It's the beginning of the
journey. But once you are on that path,

(37:29):
you very voluntarily continue, continue there, right.
And of course, part of that is also asking difficult questions.
And you had mentioned earlier where I was like, oh, what's
wrong with me? Like that's not the most
productive question to ask, obviously.
But what we do need to ask if weare the common denominator in

(37:53):
our experiences is what is this actually all about?
Because at the end of the day, there is something within us
that makes this even possible, right?
So that's where the the deeper healing aspect comes comes in.
One thing I want to talk about just in terms of my experience,

(38:13):
and I think this is a common thing for other people too, is
you identify that first narcissistic relationship and
you start to make the healing changes needed.
You start to establish your sovereignty.
You start to take back the locusof control of your life.
You start to shift and to change.
You let go of the shame, you letgo of the guilt.
The flashbacks ease off. And then lo and behold, you

(38:37):
start having conflicts and otherrelationships.
And so I was feeling bad becauseI was the common denominator.
But at the same time, when a certain stereotype of person is
what you know, to feel safe and you don't know anything else,
that's what I'd surrounded myself with.
So was I the common denominator?Yes, I was, but also I had a lot

(39:01):
of toxic relationships. And then after a while it was
just like watching the dominoes fall and it's like, you know
what, I'm ready. Let them all go.
And as you start to heal, the trash does actually take itself
out. And although it's uncomfortable,
you can get to a point where you're like, you know what, have
clarity on this. I'm good.
I can stay in my own lane and I can just keep thriving and

(39:23):
moving towards the things I wantto move to.
Did you have a similar? That's incredible, isn't it?
And also things like realizing we don't need to, to sacrifice
ourselves for love. Like that's a big one, you know,
like this is what we learn and that's what gets us into

(39:43):
trouble. We, we realize that.
Hold on a second. Actually, I am good enough.
And all of those things that up until that point when you
actually start doing healing work, like deep healing work,
just running in the background and most of them you're
completely unaware of. But they actually determine how

(40:06):
we see the world, how we have relationships, how we see
ourselves. And I think once we come to
realize that we are just OK in who we are, we actually have.
The permission, and we give ourselves the permission to be
authentic in who we are, to say no, having boundaries, all those

(40:31):
kind of things. And it's a very steep learning
and we all have to go through it, but it's a complete game
changer. And what it does is it just
changes life in general because it doesn't only change the
relationships you have going forward, it changes the way you
see the world. It changes what you see when you

(40:52):
look in the mirror. Like all of a sudden you look in
the mirror and you are actually seeing your best friend.
And you know, there will be liketimes where the two of you are
not on the best terms, but you learned how to reconnect and
make up, you know, with, with yourself, basically.

(41:12):
And yeah, as I said, doing deep healing work and trauma recovery
in whatever context is literallythe biggest gift you can, you
can give yourself because it's just such a different way of
living. And first of all, there is a way

(41:33):
to come out the other side and I've done it, you've done it.
I see people do it every day. So regardless of what everybody
says, no, it's actually possible.
And then the way life is on the other side, it's something you
couldn't have even imagined before.

(41:54):
And I always used to be quite self confident and I always made
my dreams happen. It's just my personality.
But it wasn't like I told myselfI couldn't have that kind of
life. It just simply wasn't on my
radar. And now all of a sudden my life
couldn't be more authentic. And that's a whole different way

(42:15):
of of experiencing life, you know, when you're just
unapologetically you. But to be able to do that, we
need to put the the work in. And unfortunately, there are
experiences that bring us to ourknees.
They are literally life and death situations, but they force

(42:36):
us to actually go inward to survive.
And when you do the healing work, that's the, that's the end
result, you know? Yeah, there's so many really
good things in there. I had so many thoughts, fleeting
as you were, as you were just, you know, little things that I
was remembering and thinking of going through it.

(43:00):
And I think it can be an incredibly lonely journey.
And I think when you hit that loneliness, that's your check
mark, that you're doing it right.
That's an uncomfortable reward, but it is actually reward just
to kind of signify if you're on the right path.
Yeah, because it won't be too long after and then you'll start
attracting the right people and healthy relationships and

(43:22):
actually know. Actually, that is the key.
And with regards to the loneliness, it's literally, it's
a soul destroying part of this whole journey because there's
just such a big disconnect between what you're going
through and what other people can relate to.
And all this well meaning advice, right time will heal all

(43:42):
wounds and stuff like that. And, and you're literally
fighting for your life and nobody takes it seriously
because you just had a breakup, you know.
So it is a terrible, terrible experience to to have.
But as you just said, what happens when you do your healing
work is that you actually attract a new kind of person

(44:06):
into your life who actually justgets you.
And you won't find those people in those self help groups.
I just wanted to mention that. So be careful when you feel
lonely and you will because it is a very lonely endeavor and
you look for support, which is avery natural thing to do.

(44:27):
And you find yourself on the in the social media groups, support
groups. If they make you feel worse,
leave those groups immediately because that's not the support
that you want. And a lot of those groups come
from really bad energies. And you know, if somebody puts a

(44:49):
post and already puts a trigger warning before they even start
writing, leave those groups immediately.
They are not moderated. They're linguistically really
bad. And it's more kind of like my
story is worse than yours and it's not about the story.
So be really, really mindful about how things make you feel,

(45:10):
whether that's people, whether that's groups, whether that's
really anything because you needyour energy for your your
healing. You know, that's what we need
the energy for. And the same applies for people.
If you constantly you get weird reactions from people and you

(45:31):
feel like you need to apologize,you need to justify yourself,
you need to really put the work in trying to convince them or
make them understand. Just stop talking to them about
it. And that includes.
Therapists, let me just say as afull out disclosure, if you
don't find the right therapist, you can attract the wrong one.

(45:51):
Been there, done it. It took me an extra year to
recover from. You are getting in your car
after therapy and you're having an emotional flashback and that.
Absolutely. And again, you know, like a lot
of us who end up in narcissisticrelationships by default

(46:13):
programming, we are people pleasers.
We have a lack of boundaries. And The thing is, when it's
about your well-being, when it'sabout your healing work, you
have the right to say no. And literally everything that
doesn't make you feel good has got to go.
And sometimes those things have to go go, like putting no

(46:36):
contact in place. Sometimes it's enough to just
adjust, you know, like if somebody doesn't get you, well,
talk to them about the weather, you know, something they can
relate to, but not about your healing journey, not about your
travel plans or your business plans.
If they don't get it, just don'ttalk to them about it.
And that's a way to protect yourown energy because as I said,

(46:59):
when you are on your healing journey, you do need your
energy. Yeah, it really is learning a
whole new way to live and to have the nervous system
function. When you were talking about
using groups and things like that, I thankfully didn't go
through that. I don't know why it didn't occur
to me to put myself in that situation.

(47:19):
I'm glad I didn't, but I could imagine the nervous system
addiction that would create because they just replaced them,
the narcissist, with this other thing that's having the same
chemical cocktail. Yeah.
I mean, it's not like it would be trauma bonded to the group as
such, but it's just very dysregulating to the nervous

(47:39):
system because the brain cannot distinguish if something's
happening for real or what Are we imagining it?
So if you're in a group that shares their, you know, war
stories, you read that and your brain actually cannot
distinguish whether this is happening to them or it's
happening to you. And then there might be
something you can relate to which is triggering in the 1st

(48:01):
place. So it's just an overdose of
negativity and the nervous system is already completely
misregulated. Anyway to to start with, the
amygdala is misfiring all the time and you're constantly
anxious 24/7 even without all ofthis.
So you're basically just adding on top of your own trauma.

(48:23):
You add secondary trauma on top of that.
And you know, it's not a forwardmoving motion at all.
So just be really, really mindful of of that.
Well, that's the bit about your book.
Do you have it with you? I do.
I do. It's called me myself and I Oh,

(48:45):
it's blurry. Can you see it?
Wait. OK, there we go.
Now it's focused. The background me, myself and I
this says for her because I havea version for men as well,
because narcissistic abuse can happen to everyone.

(49:07):
And this is basically my group coaching program in book format
and it's a very practical toolbox.
It's basically my toolbox for your pocket.
So you can try out little small practical tools and that make a
big difference. They're designed for you to

(49:29):
reconnect with yourself. They are designed to break the
trauma bond and really, you know, give you the momentum to
start moving forward in in the right direction.
And it's a bit like a self-care buffet, you know, like I dish
out what I got and every day youcan pick up something and you
try it out, you like it, you putit in your toolbox.

(49:49):
It doesn't resonate just yet. You just come back later when
the time is right. And if you know me, you know
that I'm all about the practicalsolution.
I'm not much of A theoretical person.
So this is very practical for you to start building your own
toolbox. And it also, as I said, it's my

(50:10):
group coaching program in book format, but I also have the
group coaching program coming upin February actually.
So that's the live program that goes with the book.
How long does the program run for and who do you recommend is
going to benefit from that the most?

(50:30):
So it's called an Auric Toolbox and it runs from the 1st of
February until the 28th of February.
I run it once a year in Februarybecause February is such a weird
month when nobody knows what to do with it anyway, right?
Like January took a whole year and then it's not spring yet.
So I always run this in Februarybecause it's a fun little thing

(50:51):
to do. And it just, it gives you the
momentum. The moment that spring starts,
you know, you, you have this momentum to, to move forward.
And it is suitable for narcissistic abuse survivors,
but it's also suitable for anybody who has lost themselves
somewhere on the way. Because, you know, we don't need

(51:12):
to be abuse survivors to lose ourselves somewhere.
At the end of the day, it all comes down to practical tools
and self-care. And when I say self-care, you
know, I don't mean the hair and the nails, but like really solid
self-care. It's tools that all of us should
have in our toolbox. So it's literally open to

(51:33):
anybody who really would like toreconnect with with themselves.
And it's also one module of my certification training because
at the end of the day, not everybody is ready for deep dive
therapy. So if we want to go out there
and help other people with our experience, you know, we can do

(51:55):
that even with like little simple tools, you know, to to
just create that same momentum for for other people.
So survivors as much as therapists, hypnotherapists,
coaches, medical professionals, anybody who would like to have
some practical tools in their toolbox for themselves.

(52:19):
And of course, to share because that's, that's my, my whole
intention, right? To to share what I what I got.
And it is really important that it's a toolbox because not every
tool will work for every day. And I had a lot of that
experience myself where it's like, oh, what is it?
My go to is just aren't doing ittoday.
So it's good that you've got a wide variety for people to

(52:41):
explore and try and you may havean off day when you need to try
a tool that ordinarily you wouldn't exactly that's ready
for people. Yeah.
And I always encourage everybodyto be curious, you know, because
there is no size fits all solution.
And the more tools you have in your toolbox, the more
flexibility you have for yourself how you deal with

(53:03):
life's challenges. But then also, of course, what
you can offer other people, if that's what what you want to do.
And the intention of the group coaching program as much as the
book is really to tickle the curiosity because it's a whole
set of different modalities. And then of course, if something
resonates, you know, you might just venture out and explore

(53:24):
more in that direction. And that's exactly, that's
exactly the point. Beautiful.
And did you want to go and elaborate on more of the Narc
expert program? Was showing part of it you
wanted to dive into more deeply?Yeah, I can.

(53:45):
Of course, I can mention it. So the Narc Toolbox is a module
of the whole certified Narcissusexpert training, as I already
mentioned, in February, in January, actually in two weeks
time on the 10th, I'm going to run my narcissistic abuse expert

(54:05):
module, which is actually the only module in the whole
certification program that dealswith narcissists to a limited
extent. Because my focus, of course, is
the survivor. And this one is suitable for
anybody who either has experienced narcissistic abuse,

(54:26):
maybe is still trying to figure it out and is putting the puzzle
pieces together, who has alreadycome out of it and is in the
learning phase of the the journey.
But it's also suitable for medical professionals, for
therapists, hypnotherapists, coaches, social workers,

(54:50):
lawyers, mediators, HR, charities, so basically anybody
who is on the front line who potentially deals with
narcissistic abuse survivors. Because as we said, there is a
huge disconnect between the experience and what people
perceive. And this one is an educational

(55:12):
module and it will teach you everything you need to know.
And I'm not saying everything there is to know because
somebody comes up with somethingnew every day, everything you
need to know, cutting through the noise and really putting the
dots together to get a comprehensive understanding as a
narcissistic abuse expert. And then of course, that will

(55:33):
allow you to, you know, reach out to to people to start
helping them. Maybe you want to give talks,
maybe you want to connect with local organizations and really
start moving this kind of kind of work forward.
So that starts on the 10th of January.
And then I want to say I believeyou touched on some of the

(55:55):
things like Co parenting, going through the legal process as
well. So it's basically everything as
I said, you need to know. And the smallest part is
actually the narcissist. It's it's more about, you know,
like different narcissistic dynamics.
Because we we already talked about the relationships,
narcissistic abuse in families, narcissistic abuse in the

(56:17):
workplace, things like that. We will be addressing the trauma
that narcissistic abuse causes. We will be looking at the
neuroscience, what is actually happening in the brain and how
can we reverse that neurologicalbrain damage that is actually
caused through narcissistic abuse.
We will be looking at legal proceedings with a narcissist.

(56:38):
That's also where a huge disconnect is because, you know,
lawyers and judges, they pretendlike we're dealing with a normal
person, we're not dealing with anormal person and it's not a
normal divorce and all the normal rules don't apply.
So legal proceedings with a narcissist parenting with a
narcissist because parenting with a narcissist is definitely

(57:01):
not a team sport, so you will. Then don't recommend.
I know, right. So all of those topics will be
will be covered and it will giveyou a solid understanding that
will allow you to hold the spacefor somebody in that situation,
but also give them practical guidance and how to deal with

(57:24):
with the situation. I wish I had this when I was
going through my my 20s and encountering those things
because there was really nothingthat could have prepared me.
And it wasn't even my child, it was my stepchild.
But I was there for the the whole ride.
Watching my spouse go through this on the legal system, the
education systems, they weren't equipped for this.

(57:47):
They didn't. And they still.
Aren't. Right.
They still aren't. And that's why we need to be
aware that this is actually a thing because it's very, very
important, whether it's from a therapeutic point of view, from
a legal point of view that we surround ourselves with people
that actually get it. Because otherwise we minimize

(58:09):
our own success in coming out the other side of that because
otherwise we're just left fighting, fighting, fighting.
Whereas if we have the right people in our corner, and which
actually leads me to some something I wanted to say,

(58:29):
people like us usually don't askfor help because, you know, we
are so used to fighting our own battles and we learn to always
put other people's well-being before our own.
If you are going through narcissistic abuse recovery, now
is the time to change that because you've got to be your

(58:49):
own priority. And it is absolutely OK to ask
for help because this is something you don't need to go
through on your own. And you also cannot go through
on your own because you are at apoint in your life where you
just need somebody who has walked through that, that who
has tools to share with you thathelp you come out the other

(59:10):
side. So no matter how reluctant you
are to ask for help, it's OK to do that.
And please, please, please do itbecause it's going to make the
biggest difference because if you have the right people that
have your back, the situation ischallenging enough as it is and
it will remain challenging, but you have much more support.

(59:32):
So please, even if it doesn't come naturally to you, please do
ask for help. It's OK.
Even if you're not sure that that's what you're going
through, if something you've heard today sounds remotely
familiar, you've been thinking about your life While we're
talking, I definitely recommend exploring the book and see if
there's things in there that resonate, that help you make

(59:53):
sense of things. And if you are someone who's
parenting, then the toolbox can actually be used to support your
children as well, to teach them healthy things, to help them
work with their emotions, their nervous system.
That's something that everybody needs.
And even if it's not exactly narcissistic abuse, because I
mean, some of us have had other different experiences with other

(01:00:15):
DSM labels, if you will. It doesn't really matter.
How the label right, it's about what's going on for you and if
you feel you've disconnected with yourself, if you feel like
your nervous system is dysregulated, if you're like
really twitchy and hyper vigilant and you know, I have
this anxious undercurrent constantly.
It doesn't really matter where that came from as such, because

(01:00:40):
what if and what label you want to give it?
You know it matters what's goingon for you and what to do about
that. Yeah, it's the way you come back
home to yourself at the end of the day.
Yes. And also because you aren't busy
enough, you've created a new conference coming to Portugal in

(01:01:05):
2026. Do you want to dive into that?
Sure. So I live in Lisbon in Portugal
and I will be hosting the first Hypno summit in Portugal and
it's going to take place on the 3rd and 4th of October next

(01:01:26):
year. And yeah, I'm, I'm super excited
about it. It's going to be in the heart of
Lisbon. And please do join me and you
know, come explore, come to learn, come to transform.
Also have a Portuguese cultural experience because it's such a
beautiful country. Lisbon is one of the most

(01:01:46):
beautiful cities in the world. The food is amazing and I'm
very, very excited about this opportunity to host a hypnosis
conference in Portugal. It's not only hypnosis related,
but you know, I will be introducing modalities that are
very complementary with hypnosisand it's just going to be a

(01:02:10):
really exciting experience. I can't imagine you doing
anything not to trauma informed,so I know that that's definitely
gonna have a role in what you'reoffering to the community.
Are you currently taking proposals for presenters?
I am. I guess I can share the link

(01:02:31):
with you and you can put it in the comments.
Yeah. Proposals are still open, dates
are confirmed, hotel is CON confirmed.
So if you're looking for a trip to Portugal and come explore
here on business expense, if youneed an excuse, there is your
excuse. Kind of left those perks.

(01:02:51):
Yeah. Well, anything coming to mind
that you'd like to share about what is going to make your
conference a little different? Well, what is what is it?
Well, it's not going to be salesy at all because my
intention is to give information, content

(01:03:13):
transformation and it will be all about topics.
It's also open to the general public and to medical
professionals. So it's going to be all about
topics that so many people deal with and struggle with and they
are being told there is nothing you can do about like
narcissistic abuse, for example,you know, or trauma in general.

(01:03:34):
And the, the intention of the conference really is to explore
the endless opportunities that hypnosis has to offer for us as
hypnosis professionals, but alsofor, you know, people that are
just curious about it and are inlife situations that may seem

(01:03:57):
hopeless, when in reality, you know, actually we can do
something about it. So it's for us as
hypnotherapist, but also to raise the awareness in the more
general public about what is even possible with the tools
that we have in in our field. So within the work that you're

(01:04:19):
doing right now, are you still having availability to take on
clients? Limited, but yes I do.
And I know you've got some speaking engagements coming up
as well. Anything on the highlight list?
I mean, a lot actually. I was just going through my

(01:04:43):
through my schedule. So from from March until
November, I'm pretty much on theroad.
And the biggest highlights I think for 2026 is actually I was
invited to speak at the biggest trauma conference in Europe.
So that is huge. Well, ladies and gents, if you

(01:05:10):
would like to dig into this work, you want to start healing
your trauma, having a toolbox and resources.
Rock'n'roll Coach Ronnie is ready to help you move through
this and to take your life back,take your sovereignty back, take
your agency, get your passion back, actually love for you.

(01:05:30):
I recommend her website and I will have everything in the show
notes. Ronnie, is there anything else
you'd like to leave our listeners with today?
Well, if this is an experience that you're going through right
now and it does feel like the end of the road, please know
that it's not. And as I already said, please do
ask for help. It's OK to ask for help because

(01:05:52):
even if it may feel that way right now, you are actually not
alone in this. There are, believe it or not,
people who understand and do yourself that favor and, and
connect. And of course, if you would like
to connect with me, please come find me, have a look at the
website, send me an e-mail if you have any questions.

(01:06:14):
I'm a very approachable person. So please feel free to, to reach
out. I'd be very happy to to hear
from you. That's it loved ones.
So, as always, stay happy, stay healthy, stay well, but most of
all, stay inspired. For now, bye.

(01:06:35):
All right, we're gonna let.