PTSD, Identity Loss & Hypnosis: A Veteran’s Journey from Survival to Self-Trust with Brian Bay

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello, hello, soulful seekers. Welcome back.
This is a surprise. This podcast is no longer trauma
and transcendence. And I know that's what you've
been used to, but with change comes good things.
So what I'm really happy to tellyou today is the podcast has
been renamed and it is called Soul Rain.

(00:24):
And the whole purpose for choosing this podcast name, same
intent as the previous podcast. I'm still going to explore
trauma. I'm still going to find people's
stories and experiences with Transcendence for you and still
going to be bringing on really great guests who've had
experiences to share as well as solutions for you.

(00:45):
But we're changing format. So as you can see, if you were
watching this live, then you already know this is now a live
stream podcast. It's going to be live streaming
over on YouTube. And then I want to save my
Facebook personal account because of Riverside and
Facebook are not currently playing nice for me.

(01:05):
And that is what it is. But that's what's up.
So what I'm doing here essentially is saving myself so
much time. No more editing.
And you guys are gonna have a lot more raw handed moments
coming from the podcast. But thank you so much for being
loyal, for being here and continuing to show up as I

(01:27):
continue to evolve and grow. And this podcast continues to
evolve and grow. And before I forget, this
podcast is brought to you by Healing Beyond Trauma
hypnotherapy and Trauma informedcoaching.
Every single episode is capable and available because of Healing

(01:48):
Beyond Trauma and if it not had been for that, this podcast
would not be here. So if you are looking for a
wonderful way to support the podcast, Keep Me Going, Healing
Beyond Trauma, booking sessions,exploring ways to discover your
healing and growth is the best way to do that currently.
As for other news, we have a guest today.

(02:11):
I've got the wonderful Brian Bay.
I can't wait for you to meet him.
He is a colleague as well as a friend over the past couple of
years. And we've had some great mutual
friends that we're going to talkabout today.
And I'm just waiting for Brian to be able to load in and hop
on. Well, I am doing that.
Let's talk about other changes. Oh my goodness.

(02:33):
There is never a dull moment over here.
I don't know about you guys, butI do not seem to have any dull
moments. Well, some of you know that I
changed where my practice location is and I'm now giving
services over at Dale Mccutcheon's Martial Arts Studio
by Evan Gotti. And so that's where I'm seeing
my Reiki clients, my hypnotherapy clients, coaching

(02:55):
clients and coming up very, very, very, very soon.
I'm going to be bringing to you in the new year.
Group meditation events are coming back and I'm going to
give you guys a chance to have some input on that.
Let me know what group events you want available and to have
come back. It looks like Brian, we've got
you, but. We're.

(03:17):
I don't, I don't know what is going on with this camera.
It yeah, it's a camera within the laptop and.
It's not a camera, it's Riverside and so Riverside.
Not mine. It is, it is.
I'm getting the message from Riverside.
They're letting me know that your camera is being used by

(03:38):
some other app. Who knows what's happening
there. It could be a tab, it could be
anything. Yeah, I, I, I completely shut
down, restarted, and then I had to open up Facebook to go all
right, I need the link again. And yeah, and then and I close
that out completely. So I am.
So today, my friends, what you have is the audio of Brian Bay.

(04:02):
He didn't say he was going to dothis, but he's going to do some
ASMR for us. Oh.
God, Mom always said I had a face for radio.
Your own mother. I know it's with with parents
like those who needs friends or an enemies, it's but and and for
some reason it's just going to like all all kick on randomly.

(04:24):
I, I don't, I don't know why, but all right, we're we're we're
do I see something that says 97%uploading?
So it may just be. No, that is the episode.
That is a Riverside thing. We will talk about that later
the week. Currently live so.
Wonderful. Well, let's just go ahead and
get on into it because I wanted to start on time I'm.

(04:45):
Going to cry in my beer. It's it's only 10 AM.
For you. Yeah, yeah.
So no, I, I so good, good news with everybody.
Grant Saunders is back home safein, in Manchester.
I got he he had just the the kindness of his heart to call me

(05:06):
at 5:30 in the morning with video.
That's a friend. That's a genuine friend when
they do that. Yeah, so.
And he must be so happy for the warm weather there compared to
where he was. Oh God, some some of the videos
that that I saw just snow blowing across the roads and and

(05:27):
everything like that and just cars buried underneath snow.
I think I commented to Grant andSean.
I said, God, that looks like a matchbox car on Charlie Sheen's
night stand. But.
That's terrible. I'm a horrible person, Amanda.
You are the one who will get me completely censored.

(05:49):
Censored on my first time makingthis podcast go live in real
time. It's I knew it was going to be
you. And demonetized.
See if, if you get me hanging around Grant and Sean and some
of my friends, we can, you know,just, if you had to edit it out
and censor it, it would just sound like Morse code.
Just. You can't say that.

(06:11):
Wouldn't be comprehensible anymore.
Yeah, that's all while we're trying to finalize the schedule
for for performing Hypnosis Summit.
But yeah, so, you know, short, short version, thank you for
having me on the show, at least in audio form.
And yeah, so kind of tell me what's going on in your world.
Oh God, my world, we've got thisbackwards.

(06:35):
Tell me a little bit about you. I know you are a hypnotist.
I know you've been through some pretty heavy things in life and
that hypnosis was part of that self healing journey.
Do you want to delve into some of that?
Yeah, send it. Let's go.
So I so I'm a military veteran. Yeah, it it in the army.
So hashtag go Army beat Navy. We were close this year by one

(06:58):
one point, but hell of a game. I'll I'll take it.
So I did just read about six years got out, not in a manner
that that I had hoped not not anything really that, you know,
bad conduct or or or anything like that.
You know, you get a it it was funny got, you know, you get to

(07:19):
your unit, you get issued like 3to 4 shopping carts full of gear
in there was a former spouse and, you know, questionable life
choices at the time because whenyou're 19, yeah, getting
married. What, what could possibly go
wrong? Murphy said, You know, hold,
hold my Scotch. So I, I, I got out and then it

(07:40):
was just sort of a you talk about like Forrest Gumping your
way through life. I, I'm now a reformed family law
paralegal and I, I do, you know,do a lot more with personal
injury and things like that. But I, you know, out of
necessity, I learned the legal field just to try to save a lot

(08:01):
of attorneys fees. And so, yeah, I, I have a
published opinion in the Court of Appeals.
Well, it's, it's my case. My attorney did the the lion's
share of the work, but yeah, it was a kind of a parental
alienation, you know, family, family relocation type thing.
But, you know, now I've, like I said, I've gone into, you know,

(08:25):
I actually met Jim Kellner just one day I was at work and it was
just kind of one of those thingswhere, you know, you get it was
like a country music song in thecourse of three days.
You know the. The woman that I was living with
for, you know, six years decidedlike I'm, I'm moving, I'm out,

(08:46):
lost my job. And then my ex-wife at the time
found out about that and it was like great, you know, motion and
declaration and litigation all over again.
And I just went. Yeah, that's what they do, Kick
them when you're down. I was just like, F this, I'm I'm
done, you know, I, I've got to jump off the crazy train.

(09:09):
And it was I, I remember I was, you know, empty kitchen in my
house. And I just went, OK, I'm, I'm
doing 0 adulting right now. I'm gonna jump on what was it?
It was not. My Bible mode is what it is.
I think it was meetup.com and I remember I was like, all right,

(09:33):
just what is the wildest, dumbest thing that I could look
up topic. Wise, Jim.
Yeah, it no, you want to talk about like a sign from, you
know, Blues Brothers, you know, so Mission from Gad he I looked
up hypnosis just because I remember my high school grad

(09:55):
night and sure enough, I think it was one of the NGH chapters
or somebody it they were they were meeting I think in about
four hours. Yeah.
And. Didn't think he was part of NGH.
It was, I think it was the, the Seattle chapter maybe, or I, I

(10:15):
don't know. But I, I messaged them and it
was, it's like somebody's condo and I'm just kind of like, like.
What could possibly go wrong? I'm going to go into a
stranger's home and get on the news.
At least I don't have to deal with this stuff anymore.
Like, I was just I, you could have said, Brian, you know,
you're going skydiving without aparachute and, you know, Travis

(10:36):
Pastrana is not with you. And I would have been like,
word, let's go. I couldn't have cared less.
And so, you know, I was, I thinkat that time I was on like a
bunch of different medications because I, you know, I, I was
the custodial parent of, of two small children.
And so I was, I, I went to the VA and it was like, all right, I

(10:59):
need to get on any type of medication.
I need anti anxiety, antidepressants, whatever.
I just need something to maintain.
It was 100% a Band-Aid on a gunshot.
Wound and so at that time, I'm guessing had you been diagnosed
with PTSD or complex PTSD by that point?
No, I it was. Were you having flashbacks or

(11:22):
emotional flashbacks? Flashbacks to the point where it
was like I was recounting the times when I was in the military
that I really relied on my leadership to have my back and
have some support. And when I say they kicked me in
the nuts, it was like with a running start.

(11:45):
Yeah. And, you know, rug pulled out
from under me, you know, go backto the you know, it's, it's 5:00
on a, you know, 530 on a Friday.So it's after business hours.
You know, they overdrawn my bankaccount.
I've got the last couple things in the bed of my pickup truck
and I'm being escorted off the base.

(12:06):
And I'm like, but you guys are just tired of dealing with my
ex-wife. It's and if I don't, if I'm not
in the military anymore, you know, she's not your problem.
I'm like, but I still have this problem that all I want to do is
get up and go to work and do good things.
And, you know, understandably so.
I was in a special operations unit.
So, you know, we've got guys doing things in places, you

(12:28):
know, real world stuff and you know, when somebody makes an
accusation and, and you know, in, in hindsight, this was all,
you know, just posturing to get positional advantage in the
family law side of things. You know, I was, I was kind of
at the end of to my ex-wife, I was a resource again.

(12:53):
Dumbest thing I could have done was got married at 19 and so
yeah. I don't know if it's just an age
thing unfortunately, but it does.
And then again. It's, it's, it's a lot of
things, you know, my parents were divorced and I graduated, I
graduated high school and I was still 17.
So I spent the entire summer andthen it wasn't until the end of

(13:16):
September that I turned to 18. I could actually put some things
in places and went off like I had a huge falling out with both
my mom and my dad. So I graduated basic training
and I remember I went home on Christmas leave my high school
girlfriends family, you know, like they let me keep the car at
their house really, you know, came through for me.

(13:40):
You know, it's like their secondfamily and I remember it was
probably four or five days before Christmas.
It was probably maybe not today,but but probably within a couple
days ago for Christmas that I remember.
I walked on, you know, I knockedon my dad's door, rang the
doorbell and there I am in, you know, dress uniform.

(14:04):
Dad opens the door and kind of does this like double take of
where the hell have you been forthe last six months?
Our relationship changed. It was OK.
I'm no longer that 17 year old, you know, I've grown up, you
know, and, and I, he asked me what I was doing and I, you
know, told him about, you know, the, the job that I had and

(14:24):
where I was going to be stationed in the contract and
things like that. And all of a sudden it was like
his face lit up. And I didn't know if it was like
a combination of I'm I'm really proud of my son or you're the
government's problem now. So a little bit of column A, a
little bit of column B, and Dad's looking down on me now,
probably smiling a little bit. Yeah.

(14:48):
And so it was, Yeah. So kind of we'll.
Jensaki with a pretty wild ride.Yeah, you know, we'll we'll
Jensaki circle back Yeah. You know to to to the night I
met Jim. So I go to this this person's
house and it was Sean Summers. They answered the door and Sean,
if if you've never met him, is, is, is a just one of the most

(15:14):
unique people I've ever met. But everybody was like, you
know, come on in, how are you doing?
So we're sitting in this lady's room, like a family room and.
They're like. Hey, you know, how long have you
been doing hypnosis? And, you know, like, this is
this person, this person. So you're like going around the
room, you know, Doctor, doctor, doctor felt like Chevy Chase in
a 1980s movie with Bill Murray and so completely out of place.

(15:38):
I mean, you want to talk about fish out of water?
I'm like, I am the youngest person here by probably 15
years. And everybody's just kind of
like, here's the new guy. And so they go do the stuff and
they're like, So what brings youhere?
How long have you been doing hypnosis?
And I'm like, I work for an insurance company.
I've never done hypnosis a day in my life.

(16:01):
I had a bad experience with a hypnotherapist that just wanted
to help, you know? Oh, kumbaya and you know.
It, it's not that she was bad ather job, it's just she and I
were not a match with, with how she did things.
And so I was like, look, I, I need some help.
Like I'm at the end of my rope. With toxic positivity you to
almost death. No, no, not.

(16:22):
Not even that it was. So if you may have noticed,
there's probably some traces of,you know, squirrel syndrome.
The ADD where we, we kind of bounce around and.
It's on the trauma spectrum, my friend.
That is not. On autism spectrum, yeah I I got
some tism but yeah, it was what I needed was very direct very

(16:47):
rapid in induction suggestions and she's like OK, lay down and.
So she induction and deep and gear to death.
I hate them. It wasn't, it wasn't even that.
It was just like a ton of choices going, OK, imagine a
place that like brings you peace.
I'm like, well, the ocean bringsme peace and like snowboarding
and then being on the motorcycleand then this and and then

(17:10):
finally I just kind of got boredwith it and I started beginning
counting the holes in the ceiling.
And then I started getting really angry and upset going.
I paid how much? And she insisted cash, like, oh
God, this is the last bit of money that I have.
When you're counting holes on the ceiling, that's a whole
other kind of induction. That was not saying oh.
Yeah, I just kind of was like, yeah, I remember just kind of

(17:32):
sitting up going like, Yep, I like, like I got nothing.
I'm I, I left feeling more. I was kind of like, okay,
hypnosis. This is going to be every bit of
the myths that you see in the stereotypes on I, I was looking
for, I forget the actor's name in, in Office Space.
I wanted to be like, oh, bills, yeah, I don't think I'm going to

(17:54):
be paying those. And, you know, let's watch Kung
Fu with Jennifer Aniston and completely ignoring the guy, you
know, Stephen Rue going that's, it's my red Swingline stapler
and I played my music at a reasonable volume, but it was.
So here, here's kind of the, thepivotal moment and I, I, you
know #foreshadowing, because when we, we talk about this on

(18:16):
the, the 26th, it, it's, it's kind of one of my favorite,
favorite stories about Jim is I'm telling him about like,
look, I've got to get off these medications.
I'm experiencing side effects and when you know doc goes and
hold How's your depression anxiety and I'm like look when
someone's not showing up for morning formation.

(18:36):
First thing that's adding to my anxiety and depression.
If you smell when I'm stepping in.
I mean, you already had a whole bunch of stuff going, and then
on top of that, it's like, who am I anymore if you're lost?
That whole identity attached to the military and that career.
I kind of had like a little hobby side thing where I would
do some graphic design and screen printing and like heat

(18:58):
press vinyl, you know, making T-shirts and sweatshirts and
stuff. And he goes, hey, how much would
you charge to make me a couple of T-shirts?
I'm going to go out and do St. hypnosis this weekend and
whatnot. And he goes, you know, you're a
local, you know, small business,if you will.
And Jim was, was very giving when it came to that.
Like, I want to support you in any way that I, that I can.

(19:19):
And then he goes, and of course I was like, yeah, dude, I've got
some spare shirts, you know, because you're all, you always
order extras. And I was like, yeah, dude, you
need, you need one or two. Like I got you.
Vinyl's cheap, you know, we'll, we'll get some extra scraps and
everything. What you're asking for is not
super intricate. It's simple and straightforward.
And I was like, I like I got you.

(19:41):
And he goes. Was it yet the damn I'm pretty?
It no that came. So if you if you look on his
collection, you'll see the two of us wearing the black shirts
that says ask me to hypnotize you.
OK. And then like on on the the
where a breast pocket would be on the T-shirt, you know, where

(20:03):
you would put a small logo, it just said master hypnotist Jim
Kellner. And so I he goes, I'm like,
yeah, dude, I could totally too easy, man.
And he goes, all right, make onefor you too, because I want you
to come out and, and we'll teachyou how to do this.
And I'm kind of like, all right.And he goes so OK, now that that
that's taken care of, he goes listen like.

(20:24):
Kind of pulls me aside. He goes like, look, I heard your
story, like you're hurting bad. And he goes, if you're
interested, he goes, I don't want to charge you.
He goes, I want to work with you.
I want to help you. And I was like, absolutely.
I totally. And of course he was like, no, I
insist on paying you for their shirts.
I'm like, no, no, no, I, they would take me longer to figure

(20:45):
out how much it costs and everything.
And it'll, it'll take me like 15minutes.
And he goes, OK, so here's what I want to do.
And that was, I remember the first time we worked together,
he was like, OK, like, give me acall, throw some earbuds in,
kick back, lay down in bed, get comfy and, you know, he starts

(21:07):
talking and follow directions. And then the next thing I know,
I've been asleep for a week and I wake up and I just shoot up in
a panic going, oh, wait, oh, my God, My, the phone's hung up.
I'm going, oh, no, I just did like, the big, like, slap in the
face to him. So I call him back in a panic.
It's like 45 minutes later, he'slaughing.

(21:29):
He goes, oh, dude, I'm just working on your recording, man.
Like, yeah, I kind of had to edit out some of the snoring.
But yeah, you, you did great. You still heard everything.
I'm like, all right, cool. And I was like, dude, that's the
first time I've probably slept in Yeah, months.
Which was exactly what you needed.
Yeah, it, it was 30 minutes, 40 minutes maybe, but I felt like

(21:53):
I'd been asleep for a week and ahalf.
And so we, we, you know, I'm like, all right, that's, that's
awesome. And so like, it was we, we met
that one night and I think it was like a night or two later.
And then the next day was going to be, hey, let's, let's go do
the street hypnosis. And so he's at this farmer's
market at University of Washington.
And so there's a a small couple,2-3 of us.

(22:16):
And it was like, OK, well, so wegot the cameras and all right,
so here's here's how we do it. Like we should just kind of
practice on each other. He goes, all right, Brian, so
here I'm going to use you as a as the test dummy.
All right, so I'm like the bait.So he starts doing the induction
on me and then he goes, I hear him say, OK, you got super glue

(22:36):
on your back. And as I lay you down and he
lays me down on the corner of University Ave. and 50th Street,
right next to the curb, he goes,oh, here, let me move your head
so you don't like stick your hair in the chewed gum that's on
the ground. Now my body is shaking because I
am laughing, going, this is the dumbest thing I've ever heard,
but it's it's hilariously stupid.

(22:58):
Now it's the middle of summer and I hear people all around me
going, is he OK? Do we need to call 911?
Is he having like a heat stroke?Did he faint?
Is is he alive? And, and my eyes are closed and
is he having a seizure? And, and I hear Jim going like,
no, no, no, he's fine. He's just hypnotized.

(23:18):
And they're like, wait, what? And so we, you know, I can't get
up and I'm stuck to the ground. Then he goes, OK, eyes wide
open. And that's when we kind of start
getting a small crowd around. And then, you know, that was
born. And then that led to meeting,
meeting and doing a filming a training DVD with with Justin

(23:39):
James down in Seattle. And there I met Dan Hedrick from
from Hillsboro, OR and then in talking.
So when I learned how to do the street hypnosis, that kind of
came naturally because I was just making stuff up as I went
along. Again, don't have a business not
performing. I don't care.

(24:01):
I'm just going to send it. That's the best way to learn,
isn't it? When there is, there's no
agenda, there's no expectation, it's just purely present in the
moment. Yeah.
And so, so I was, I was. So Jim introduced me to Dan.
And so I'm kind of taking Dan through the whole thing about
how Jim's working with me. And Dan says, Hey, you know, I

(24:22):
do this one day super intensive thing and I'm like, all right,
tell me more. And he's like, it really kind of
helps people get out of their get out of their own way.
And I'm paraphrasing. And so he goes, I usually charge
and he put a you would have at that time with, with my
disposable income, you might as well have put like a lottery

(24:45):
price on there. And I was like, there's like,
I'd love to do it, but there's absolutely no way.
Like with what's going on, I'm in litigation and just barely
keeping my head above water. And he says, OK, I still want
you to have skin in the game. And this is how much of A ninja
Dan is. He says you figure out how to
get from your place north of Seattle to just outside of

(25:08):
Portland, OR I'll give you my address.
You'll come to my house. And so he goes, we need to give
me like a weeks notice or something.
I was like, all right, cool. So we end up setting it up a
couple months later and I went down there and Dan kind of gives
me the quick hypnosis hypnotherapy 101.
You know, just like this is how it works, not how to do it.

(25:29):
And I spent the the majority of the day in a la Z Boy recliner.
And at the end of it, you would have thought I ran the Boston
Marathon. Tranced out the whole time.
Down, up, down. But just mental.
I I left his house and drove home, you know, for three hours
just going, Oh my God, I have, I've never been more mentally or

(25:53):
emotionally smoked. Just I'm like, Oh my God, I am
like, like I need to sleep. I bet he.
Slept that night. Oh God.
It was it was just brutal getting home.
And so he goes, OK, so you're going to start to notice that,
you know, over the next week there's going to be different
ways on how you respond to different things.

(26:15):
And so I started doing that and then I think the next time I ran
into to Dan, I think it was either online or whatever.
And I was like, Dan, I've, I think it took me maybe 10 days
or so. And I said, Dan, I've, I've

(26:37):
been, I've been medication free,all of the pharmaceuticals and,
and everything like that. And I started to feel really
good. And so I think it was about that
time that, you know, Jim startedthe Friday night, Friday Night
Live. And then it was that turned into
hypnosis hero. Couple names in between, I'm

(26:58):
sure. And so he goes, Hey, I'm, I want
you to come on as a guest. I was like, Joe, I'm not a
hypnotist man. He goes, but Brian, you've
hypnotized people you've been out with me a handful of times
like you can do this. So therefore by default and kind
of explain the math and I'm kindof like, all right, who's on?
I'm a hypnotist. And so I, I jump on the, the

(27:18):
broadcast with him, we chat timeflies and then he's like, all
right, cool. Can you come back next week?
Dude, I'm. That was your interview for Co
Host. Yeah, I'm like it was.
He. I think that Jim Bob martined me
into that. And so it was I mean, if Jim was

(27:40):
was selling cars, he would have made millions.
But it was just one of those things.
I was like, it was Friday night.I'm a broke single man.
Like I don't have time to go outand party and and this that and
the other. And so it just turned into, you
know, one day he's like, OK, andmy Co host and I'm like, wait,
what? All right, straight face, be
professional ish. And and so it was.

(28:03):
It was a. I just had fun with it and then
it was when we would go out and do St.
Hypnosis and he'd be like, hey, do you want to help me teach?
Do you want to do a speaking thing on St.
Hypnosis? I'm like, am I qualified gym to
do this? I'm like, at what point are we,
you know, does this go into yourirresponsibility?

(28:25):
And he's like a street hypnosis.You can't hurt anybody, you
know, the safety stuff and you're really big on that.
I was like, all right, you know,because I, I remember we, we
went out for dinner after filming the street hypnosis
mafia DVD with Justin James and he was like, all right, Brian,
like he, Justin totally dad talked to me and he goes so

(28:49):
potentially against my better judgement, he goes, I've taught
you a skill. I I in a, in a sense, have given
you a samurai sword and I implore you to wield it with the
respect and everything that it deserves, not only so that you
don't end up in jail doing something stupid, getting sued,

(29:10):
but more importantly, I don't want to end up getting sued and
having to explain. And so there was, you know,
being in the having experience in the legal industry and stuff
like that, you know, I, I understood, yeah.
And so, you know, going through,you know, the different like
safe on stage that that's a freeonline training that that Justin

(29:34):
has where people can go get their performance or the, the
performing liability insurance and things like that.
But it's also wonderful materialand the price is right.
So but yeah, it was going through working with Dan and
then kind of going back to the VA going I want to get off of

(29:55):
these meds I need to get with with somebody.
And then I think it was yeah, because I had now during this
time, I had been going through to to counseling and, and had a
wonderful counselor. But, you know, going back, you
know, girlfriend moved out. Well, I need a roommate.

(30:18):
So I had this wonderful lady named Tanya and she got along
great with with my kids. And, you know, she's since
gotten married. We're still great friends to
this day. Both both her and her husband
are wonderful people. So she has has moved out, moved
into her house and she started her home staging design and her

(30:39):
husband was in law enforcement. So this thing comes out says my
husband got a call with a lost elderly man, took him back to
like a 55 and up sort of a double wide living, you know,
trailer park living community, but it's not quite hoarding.
But he can't quite care for himself.

(31:00):
He's sort of just overwhelmed with with stuff and there needs
to be upgraded and things like that.
So she got it in her, you know, her charitable mind, you know, a
bless her for that. And she was, hey, I think the
guy was a like a Vietnam veteran.
And I think that's really where everything came in.
So what turned into let's pull up some carpet, let's throw some

(31:23):
paint and clean some things up, turned into like we're going to
strip this thing down to studs. And so one of the one of the
construction guys that that was out there was AI think a Navy
veteran. And I was talking with him and
he says, Hey, man, like we're discussing VA disability
ratings. And he goes, Hey, call this

(31:43):
lady. She works for the VA, she does
stuff. She's able to help veterans kind
of on a part time basis and whatnot.
So I reach out to her and, you know, kind of tell her what I
had going on and she's asking methe questions.
And she's like, now she's in North Carolina.
Her, her husband's a former Ranger and former Green Beret,

(32:05):
So she knows everything that I'mtalking about.
And she's like, oh honey, she's like, I'm not a physician or a
psychologist, psychiatrist, mental health person.
She goes, but I'm going to tell you got PTSD like really bad.
And she goes, I can hear it in your voice.
And so the, she ends up working with me.
We, we get the, we finally get my first Virginia rating.

(32:29):
We appeal, we go up starting 70%, then to 80, then to 90,
then OK, last year I I finally got to 100% and.
That's that's a journey. Yeah, Oh.
Yeah, you in? Yeah, yeah, navigating the VA
healthcare system. So people who go, we want single
payer government, such and such.I'm like, listen to all the

(32:52):
people in Canada and England going.
Sucks. I will be calling you when my
husband gets to that point. Yeah.
He's he's active duty and he's Army reserves.
He went from being in supply to now recruiting.
But he did actually get injured in his service.
When we were living in Spokane, WA, he was doing Army

(33:12):
combatives. Oh yeah, Something popped in his
neck and he actually had to go and get it fused.
That was a journey. Oh.
Oh yeah, he'll yeah, yeah, I'm so when it comes.
Time and he's getting closer to retirement and having to do all
that stuff. I'm going to give you a call.
I, I, I may have you. I'm going to send you a yeah,

(33:36):
Karen is is amazing. He's got a ways still.
He's got another three to five years, assuming everything is
good and keeps moving. But.
Yeah, So, yeah, Karens business partner Michael is a former
Blackhawk pilot that crashed a helicopter and the the rudder

(33:58):
pedal jammed up into his leg andcaused the like the top part,
like in his hip to go, you know,get jammed and wedged in there.
And so it was either this crazy surgery that takes him off a
flight status or he he did like 18 months of, you know,
chiropractic and physical therapy and everything.
And then they finally his wife was like, honey, you're not

(34:21):
flying anymore, so it's time to get out.
But yeah, it was I, I really didn't recognize.
And, and that's, that's kind of the, the challenge of when
you're dealing with PTSD is if, if, if you don't know what it's

(34:41):
like, it's like saying, Hey, howdo I know that I have cancer?
And you're like, all I know is just stuff's not right and I
can't explain it. And, and there's really no like
blood test or anything. You just have to go in and, you
know, one talk to somebody that you don't know and you know,
kind of just bare your soul and and hope they're not.

(35:05):
Going to that, you got the rightperson that's actually going to
be able to see you, who you are and not what they're projecting.
Or one one of the first counselors I saw and you know,
not not to disparage. I'm going to we're so close to
Christmas. I'm I'm going to try to take the
High Road here. We'll, we'll just, we'll just
agree that we were not a good fit when it when it came to

(35:29):
working together and. And that that fit is important
because I had a few mismatched as well and 1 was really
detrimental. Yeah, I just kind of sat there
and I'm like, OK, what the hell are we doing here?
Like what is, what is the plan? Because I come in, I'm I, I'm in
here three days a week going, yeah, the same stuff that was 2

(35:51):
days ago is still on my plate and I'm just burning gas driving
down here and nothing is gettingtaken off my plate and I'm
burning up time as well. At least you weren't getting in
the car, having an emotional flashback, and then trying to
drive home wondering what the hell just happened.
Well, I mean it. Was it was one of those things

(36:11):
that's like So what what I it was this crazy, not not that
dramatic, but it was just wild to me.
So the next guy that I got paired up with, I mean, they,
we, we kind of just work some creative VA voodoo and, and get
because it what what's weird is,is with our, with our healthcare

(36:35):
system, it's all about how you articulate.
It was like, OK, are you feelinganything like this?
And it was like, well, I can be in there like, OK, cool.
If you feel this way, then we can do, we can press this button
and enter this code and that nowall of a sudden you're eligible.
I'm like, all right, fine. So it was our first couple

(36:56):
meetings and I remember go the first meeting I got in there, I
was just super on edge and it was almost like me interviewing
him and I was like, look, we're just gonna level with you.
I'm like, think of all the weight that's weighing me down
right now. It is super deep inside the
caverns that are my mind and I need you to walk with me and we

(37:21):
are going to go to some dark, dark, dark, dark places.
I need to be able to verbalize some of this stuff just simply
to get it out without fear that,you know, a tactical team is
going to not going to show up atmy house.
I'm not going to be put in a padded room with the Gribby
socks because now I'm just trapped and I can't do anything
about it. And I'm like, you know, I'll,

(37:43):
I'll take the Remington retirement plan all day long
before I subject myself to that.And so it was like, like, what
are your professional, you know,guidelines that we can still
color inside without overreacting?
And he was like, as long as you don't convey that, like you have
a plan. Yeah.
You know, or cause me to think that you're in and he goes and

(38:06):
if if you start getting there, like I'll kind of do a check in
with you. And it was just taking that that
time to communicate expectationsand set those boundaries.
Yeah, because I understand that he has a professional liability
and and obligations that that that he's they.
Have a pretty dark humor so. Exactly and.

(38:27):
Survival Strat, yeah. I'm like there's a one liner in
there, but I'm like Nope, Nope. We're not gonna say it.
We're not gonna say it. We're not gonna mention
harvesting in the South, but. And you were someone who was
very, very much ready to do the work that needed to be done.
And some people, I don't even have that on the map when

(38:47):
they're starting to realize or think they may have PTSD that
gets the furthest thing from their mind.
So and then to know how to go about it.
But you were full on ready. I I was.
To do it. Mentally, I was prepared for
both. It was.
I was ready to do the work. Is there a path?
Is there light at the end of thetunnel?

(39:08):
And if that if that light that Ithink is at the end of the
tunnel turns out to be a train, I'm going to Sprint full speed
head on and meet that thing withwith what's it?
What is it? Oh, there was a cool term.
Yeah. I was just going to be like, all
right, let's let's send it. I and it wasn't any attention

(39:31):
seeking. It wasn't a cry for help.
It wasn't, you know how many people you know, it wasn't a
game to me. It wasn't how many people can I
get to to jump and drop what they're doing and show up and
then I go, OK, cool, thank you. Talk me off my off the ledge
after jumping on 2 airplanes flying from Southern California
up to to Washington. And then, OK, next week we're

(39:55):
going to do the same thing because, you know, because
there's people that are like that.
It was. I'm tired, I'm exhausted and I
just want the pain to stop. And, and so, you know, I, I've
actually had a conversations with, with people at the VA and
I've really been trying to, you know, for the last couple years,

(40:17):
try to get meeting, you know, one-on-one meetings with the
senior leadership, especially atthe Seattle location where,
where I've had some challenges and going, you know, when you,
when you get, you know, like allthe different medical
appointments, like there, you know, there's chiropractic and
all the different kind of pain management rehab type stuff.
And then just your normal care that you've got to go through

(40:38):
because, you know, after you turn 40, stuff just starts
falling apart, falling off the wagon.
But it's, it's one of those things where you have to go jump
through all these hoops and it'slike a full time job.
And I, I feel fortunate that I've got the luxury of having
the, the disability income coming in that it covers the

(41:02):
majority of my, you know, like my basic living expenses.
And so I've got the time that I could designate to that.
But if I had, you know, if I still had two small children at
home or a family, it would in a full time job, I would be like,
OK, well, now I have to, you know, if I can squeak that one
phone call in and not be able tofollow up, well, I may not be
able to have that opportunity for several months.

(41:24):
And that stuff stacks up. And then when you're, you know,
trying to get chiropractic or massage for any type of like
pain management, your choices are all right to go to work or
my family doesn't eat. And then hypnosis is still not
on that menu yet, is it? It, it is.
But if I recall correctly, you you have to be credentialed

(41:48):
because we were trying to get Jim in on.
This I think I am but I don't know what the follow up process
is so it's really weird. My husband's post 911 GI Bill
paid my education and which is. Amazing.
Yeah, no, it paid 2 full programs.
I was in school for like 5 yearsand the programs I chose were

(42:09):
approved by the VA but I don't know where to go from there.
So. Yeah.
With Jim, he maintained his hypnotherapy license, I think
out of out of Arizona. I did too.
And so he. Didn't get it from Sweetheart,
did he? Southwest Institute of Healing
Arts. I don't know.
You'd have to ask him. If I was on camera, I'd look up

(42:31):
and be. Like Uncle Jim.
Yeah, he's been around. So, so the challenge that that
we had with Jim was he was in Arizona, he was licensed out of
Arizona. Even though he could have been
sitting right next to me, they'dgo, well, he would need to be
licensed in Washington state andthen contracted out of
Washington State. So it makes it difficult to do

(42:53):
any remote work. So Jim was just like, dude,
let's let's just take care of you.
Yeah. And you know, he it it was, you
know, that type of stuff was incredibly special.
But yeah, it it's you know, going back to like the the 22
veterans a day that we lose. It's my my hypothesis, because

(43:15):
it's not a proven theory yet, isthat it's not guys come back and
you know down on the two way rifle range that it's super
changes them or you know the horrors are are so, so bad that
no drives them to it. It's.
A decade and a half of trying toget the right help and not
having success. Exactly.

(43:37):
At some point you go, I keep hitting brick wall after brick
wall after brick wall. And then it's, it's almost like
the VA gaslights you and that's probably, you know, and it's
like no. You're having PTSD, then that
means they're hitting those emotional flashbacks, they're
getting shame spirals, and that's usually what will
precipitate. Oh, for sure, absolutely.

(43:58):
The kind of thinking that follows, yeah.
Ask any any like, I don't say I hate using the word influencer,
but guys like guys like Sean Ryan, DJ Shipley, Nick Freitas,
Yeah, from the veteran, you know, And I think this is
especially true in the veteran community.
Is that like? Sean Ryan, yeah.
Yeah, he's, he's awesome. I mean, he's Navy, but he's a

(44:21):
SEAL, so. We'll forgive him.
Yeah, no, I mean, he he's he's talked about his own struggles.
And I mean, talk, talk about somebody who has gone both
sides, you know, had pretty wildlife and wild stories.
I think the main thing that theytalk about is the easiest way to

(44:42):
kill a man is to take away his purpose.
So a lot of guys that especiallylike your senior enlisted, you
know, they retire and it goes, OK, we've got this build up,
this big ceremony. Cool.
All right, now I'm home. I don't know what I'm doing.
And, you know, the wife's not listening out to me when I
scream at her to get off, You know, Sergeant Major's grass.

(45:03):
And, you know, you go into the corporate world and it was, it's
like, OK, well, you're Mr. so and so.
Or your bill? The peon, yeah.
Yeah, you're, you're not you're.Starting all over.
You know, you you may have tripled your income, but nobody
cares that you used to be whatever you know, if you if you
unsheath the knife hand and tellsomebody that you know, you're

(45:26):
going to gouge out their eyeballs and quote.
You're being. Metal Jacket Yeah, that's,
that's an HR conversation and you're gambling, you're out.
So it's, it's just a unique kindof experience that I can't
really explain you. It's like there's people who
have been through that, you know, you've got the good, the

(45:49):
good spouses that are, are also familiar.
I mean, they, they get a taste of it.
So I mean, it's, it's a lot morethan, you know, your normal
layperson, but you know, it's, it's still, it's still super
awkward when people come up and they go, oh, thank you for your
service, because I really don't know what to say every time.

(46:09):
You know, I, I don't get me wrong, I.
Good with it I want to run and hide.
I I, I I. I'm the one that wants out of
there. Like I, like I said, don't don't
get me wrong, I super appreciatethe sentiment.
So one of the things that I, that I, I usually to respond
with is like, thanks for paying the bill every April.
And, and I, I take that, you know, there, there was a, a time

(46:33):
that so my father worked for Cummins engine company in, in,
in sales. So he was always up and down the
West Coast and Hawaii that, thatwas kind of his territory.
So he worked out this deal with,with his boss that instead of
flying out on a Monday and flying back on a Friday, he says
I can kind of work my way up the, you know, the coast once I

(46:57):
get into, you know, once I get up to like, you know, Portland,
WA area, my son is active duty at at Fort Lewis and my grandson
is up there. I can take that Friday and the
follow on Monday and I can get two extra days if you will pay
for, you know, Saturday and Sunday, like my per diem and my

(47:19):
rental car and we save on the flights.
And his boss is like, well, thatpencil is out.
Cool. So dad would get to spend the
weekend up up with me. And so one of the times he was
like, Hey, you know, I kind of wrap up my day on on Friday.
I can get, you know, like I finish up at like 2:00 or

(47:42):
something like that. And I was like, all right, cool,
I'll get you a pass to get on base and we'll bring you into
the Special Forces compound. And I worked up at the
headquarters building. And so I asked the the the group
command Sergeant major. I said, hey, my dad's coming to
visit. Do you might.
I'd love to introduce you to him.

(48:03):
You've been super cool to me, you know, love you to death.
And of course, Sergeant Major Victoria Allen is from North
Carolina just. Oh hell yeah.
Come on, bring them in. Like sure, I got you.
And. I'm like, all right, cool.
It's gonna be about 30 minutes or so.
He goes, yeah, yeah, cool. So.
He comes in, you know, I kind ofshow my dad the the building

(48:24):
and, you know, my dad's kind of got this look on his face, like,
am I allowed to be here? It's a weird experience.
It's a civilian, yeah. Yeah, the, and so we, we get to.
Yeah. So he, I, I walk in like
Sergeant Major, this is my dad. Dad, this is, you know, command

(48:46):
Sergeant major. And you know, he's like he, he
hops up. Oh, damn.
Glad to meet you here. Come on here.
Sit, sit down. He's like take a seat and then
the chair in my desk. And so we're, you know, and that
was after like he showed him like his office and we took him
around the headquarters building.
It was like a, you know, kind ofhis personal tour and you know,
by the top enlisted guy in the unit.

(49:08):
And then he's like here, you know, sit down at my desk, I'll
show you clicks on the laptop, acouple things and he pulls up,
you know, one of these videos and it's showing, you know, the,
the like the CQB. So your your door kicking snatch
and grab type stuff, you know, alittle bird helicopter chasing a
car, cutting it off, guys jump off and you know, snatch a dude

(49:30):
up, throw him in a Humvee and you know, go off somewhere else.
So that's. Not fair.
Yeah, so, so he's watching all of this stuff and, and, you
know, Sergeant Major's just narrating.
He's like, OK, so here, watch these guys.
They fast rope onto the moving train.
They go down inside and then theguy flies along the train and
the sniper just starts just picking dudes off inside.

(49:52):
And you know, this is all like simunitions and, and things like
that. And it was an exercise.
So that's why they had the cameras in there.
And then he goes, yeah, here's actual some like the early GoPro
cameras, yeah, view and like theISR feeds and, and everything
like that as far as the capabilities.
And my dad just kind of sitting there going like, Oh my God,
wow, this is, this is pretty wild.

(50:15):
And you know, then, then of course my dad's kind of
graciously like, hey, like I've taken up a, like you've got work
to do. I know it's kind of rounding out
the end of your day. And we, we spent probably about
an hour, hour and a half or so. Sergeant major reaches into his
pocket and, you know, goes to shake my dad's hand.
Well, it's got a Sergeant major's command Sergeant major's
challenge coin in there. And he was like, you know,

(50:36):
thanks for supporting your son. And you know this, that the
other and you know, my, I'm kindof looking at my dad going
asshole. I don't even have one of those
coins. Like what a Dick.
So, so the first time I come back and so Sergeant majors
explaining like what you do withthe challenge coin, like someone

(50:57):
will drop a challenge coin. And then if you don't have a
coin of your own from somebody of a higher rank, like you have
to buy them a beer the next round or whatever it is.
So next time I, I go home, you know, my dad's telling every,
you know, like my brother's got some friends over and, you know,
different, different family members from my step mom's side
and kind of recounting that. And all of a sudden my dad opens

(51:19):
up his wallet, pulls out the coin and drops a challenge coin
on the, the patio table. And I'm like.
Hey Deck, you know I don't have one of those.
But he, I remember my father saying, sitting down with that
with Sergeant Major Allen, he says, I have never been so proud

(51:40):
to be a, a member of the tax paying public.
He goes, you could have doubled my taxes and I would have gladly
paid that, you know, after seeing that type of stuff.
And that was one of the times I was like, all right, dad really
thinks I'm doing some pretty awesome stuff.
And, and in Full disclosure, I was AI was a support guy.

(52:01):
I was an analyst, so I don't don't want any confusion that I
was like some ninja commando Green Beret guy.
But we we were fortunate enough that.
They can't do without, they do without Intel.
So communication, they, they need all those things.
So, so the, the cool thing aboutthat is they're kind of like the
tactical teachers if you look attheir, their overall mission.

(52:23):
And So what did they do is they reach out on the practice guys
or on the on the support guys topractice on so you know they'll
like a. Female cat before she does
something. Regret, of course.
Yeah, yeah, you're. Walking around a pile of dog, my
feet say hello now. Now that you're here, say hello
to everybody. Your little goblin face.

(52:45):
Called what? Remind me what kind of cat that
is? She's a Persian and oh, now
she's stepping on my soundboard working out.
Yeah, my dad adopted 2 Persians.They got the little smushed
bases and then the first super soft and like little
tumbleweeds. Yeah, exactly.
So, But yeah, it was, yeah. So going back to, you know, the

(53:09):
Special Forces mission is, you know, they, they teach, you
know, your, your local, you know, resistance or guerrilla
force to overthrow an oppressivegovernment.
Yeah. And so the you know, So what
what they do is, oh, I'm from OK, quick, quick side thing that
just reminded me of something. This is like how just dumb

(53:29):
things trigger memories. My dad was dating a lady kind of
long term before he got married to my stepmom before they met.
And she had a cat with a big fluffy tail.
And so one night she has my dad over at her place.
And so she's like, oh, we're going to do the candles, a nice
dinner and other things that are.

(53:50):
I don't want a picture in my mind.
So the cats go together the. Cats just kind of drops up on
the table and just sort of like is wandering around and, you
know, doing the whatever. Well, the cat's tail kind of
just wisps right over the top ofthe flame.
Catches a cat's tail on fire. The cat doesn't really

(54:10):
understand. Dad's girlfriend reacts and
she's like. What are you doing?
Come. Here, well, the cat's like.
I don't want to get. In trouble so the cat runs away
and then all of a sudden the tail has a sensation of like
something's burning This is bad so that freaks out the cat even
more so my dad goes son that wasthe funniest thing I've ever
seen he goes this this this flame this cat with a flame

(54:33):
behind it is running all over the all over the house
girlfriends trying to catch it he goes this was like a a looney
Tunes cartoon he goes I just could I couldn't help but stand
back and and watch it but yeah so so go back to the the support
guys is. You know you'll get a a.
Team guy that puts out a, you know, a team Sergeant or team

(54:56):
leader puts out a tasking and says, hey, we're going to the
range, we're going to do the shoot house, we're going to do
insert training here. And we need support guys to
either play play bad guys to be role players, you know, get
stuck with needles, you know, for the for the medics type
stuff. And so it was So not only would

(55:17):
they have us do it, but they would.
It was like, OK, now you switch,we're gonna teach you how to do
these things. So it was really.
Yeah. So it was like, OK, we need
people to go get stuck with Ivs.All right?
Now you're gonna do, you know, stick somebody with an IV.
And so that was. No.
Not on the laptop. Thank you.

(55:40):
So. A lot is alive, yeah.
So that was just a lot of, you know, really, really good
training and fond memories. And I, I, I try to focus a lot
on that, you know, because there's, you know, and it, and
it really comes down to who you surround yourself.
And I've had I've had leaders inthe military and even, you know,

(56:04):
the civilian world, if you want to call it that, that I would
walk on broken glass with bloodystumps to help them there.
There's even a a smaller probably, you know, count on one
hand the people that it's like, OK, I will follow you through
that door. Even if I know that certain

(56:25):
death is on the other side, LikeI'll go, you know, so it's like
these are the people. And and then there's the people
of all right. If, if we need to go storm the
gates of hell and go snatch up Lucifer himself, like, all
right, here are the boys that I want with me.
Yeah. And so those, those bonds and
stuff are there. It's incredibly, you know,
important. But then also how just you know

(56:48):
garbage leadership can absolutely destroy a person.
That it can. Yeah, that it can.
And just have an overall hostilework environment which I'm
feeling right now. No, the, the, the, the dark
humor in me is like, I've got a great chicken teriyaki marinade

(57:11):
recipe. Like I said, I'm a horrible
person. So hypnosis actually it sounds
like worked really fast for you.How many?
So I know you said you had the intervention with Dan, that was
a one session intervention. It, it was like a holy crap.
I'd say probably around six hours.

(57:33):
Yeah. It was, it was definitely a long
day. I mean, I got up early to drive
down and it's about a three hourdrive and then kind of hung out.
We, we kind of timed it so it was like, all right, once I get
back on the road, you know, it was, you know, I, I could skirt

(57:53):
the Portland traffic and then bythe time I got up into the Fort
Lewis Tacoma area and up in through downtown Seattle, that,
that rush hour traffic had cleared.
So it was, it kind of all workedout and.
I. Can't remember how much, sorry.

(58:16):
And then how much? What intervention did you do
with Jim afterwards? I did I think probably a
handful. It was just more of like, hey,
dude, I need a a a quick, you know, touch up and he'd be like,
all right, cool man here. How does tomorrow sound?
All right, cool. And it's right headset in, sit
on the couch, you know, plug into your phone and all right,

(58:38):
ready, set go. And it was it was really cool
because, you know, there were times that, you know, like I had
space at the house. So Jim would be like, hey, I'm
in town for such and such. I'm like, don't I got the guest
rooms like stay here. It's no, no worries.
So, you know, it was it was really Jim, Jim.

(58:58):
My relationship with Jim was, was one where it just seemed
like it wasn't even giving and taking.
It was just both of us giving. Yeah, and.
That's all the best ones are. Yeah, and so the yeah, that's
why it was just such a such a devastating phone call when when

(59:20):
when Yang had to had to call me last year.
And but I'm thankful that I was one of it's it's that double
edged sword. It's like instead of looking at
it as Oh my God, yeah, why me? It was I, I felt.
I got to. It's almost like you kind of
feel honored that that I was oneof the first people to call in

(59:42):
it. I mean, I mean, in all reality,
it was probably just because I was one of the geographically
the closest and. Not the Lego tree.
Good God, this cat. Do you have no idea what those
are gonna do to a Dyson vacuum and my feet if I step on them?

(01:00:03):
It just threw away the book. I can't rebuild it.
Leave it alone. But YouTube and the magic of the
Internet, you'd be able to find instructions.
No, but it is. It is such an incredible honor
to be able to be that person andfor someone who was just so
influential to so many people because he was that way with

(01:00:24):
you, but he was also that way with everybody who was genuine
and sincere in who they were. And and I'm glad that I had gone
down to the first in person performing Hypnosis Summit
because that's where, yeah, you know, I kind of got to meet a
lot of people that, you know, wehad.

(01:00:45):
That for you? 20.
Like is it ramped up, It began. I think 23 was the no, you can't
call it was online because that's right, 24 was the first
one, then 25 we just had and then 26 will be #3 here in a in

(01:01:09):
a few weeks. And yeah, you're.
So under a under a month out nowand you'll be, are you going
live this year? Yes, I'm kind of when, when when
Jim left the chat, I kind of inherited his spot by by proxy.
So I was actually on the phone with the hotel yesterday.

(01:01:31):
And so it was. It was definitely pretty.
If I hadn't gone the first year,it would have made January kind
of strange The but instead having met people the the year
prior with Jim and having been, you know, Co hosting Jim's

(01:01:52):
podcast, it it made it more of like, you know, it was almost
like a a reunion in a way, and definitely an incredibly
healing, you know, just just folks that it I, I remember
seeing, you know, seeing Grant. He happened to be Sammy's.

(01:02:13):
Yeah, I remember I came up the escalator and Grant was
upstairs. I hadn't checked into my room
yet because I got in early and Ijust put bags down.
And, you know, Bill Murray, Caddyshack, you know, just
looked across the room in the lobby there, saw Grant, you

(01:02:34):
know, tears in his eyes, Cinderella's story, you know,
just, it was just a big hug. And it was just one of those
hugs where you could feel the authenticity.
It was just like, I got you. You know, I'm genuinely happy to
see you, too. And then we flew back up to
Washington State. I took him over to across
Stevens Pass into Leavenworth and almost killed us all.

(01:02:56):
But that's another story for another day.
But it's. Yeah, I, I remember looking.
Yeah. It was after the conference this
year Sunday night. Joe Beth had had extra tickets
to the Las Vegas Golden Knights.He was entertaining some

(01:03:19):
professional athletes. And so he had a box, box suites,
and he was like, hey, dude, I know you're a big hockey fan,
Come out if he can. So I'm like, yeah, cool.
So Kevin and I drove down there and I remember just looking out
over the arena, looking at all of my surroundings and
everything. And I'm like about five years
ago if he told me that I was gonna be here doing this.

(01:03:42):
Right. I would have told you you're on
drugs. And it was a very, very profound
moment where I, you know, I'm not going to say that I got a
little bit emotional, but I'm not going to deny it either.
But yeah, it's it's, it's just really.
And so we're actually coming up now to a year without Jim.
And it's it's been a weird one. It's really been a weird one.

(01:04:05):
Yeah. He showed up in so many spaces
and places for people and to to go to those places and to not
have him. For some of them, it'll just,
it'll never be the same, you know?
Yeah, it's really. You you've, you've had a chance
to I think you've seen it. We're on the 26th we're going to
be doing an an online kind of a special broadcast.

(01:04:27):
We'll, we'll invite some people on, share a memory, share, share
some things about, you know, funny story about Jim.
You know, it's not intended to be recreating a funeral by any
means, but more just celebratinghis memory and, and, and
honouring him in a, in a way that you know, he deserves and
kind of an informal way that that he probably would have

(01:04:48):
preferred. Yeah, that would have.
Sat with who he was and his humor and his preference of
looking at life a little more onthe positive end, yeah.
So will will this go? So we're we're live now,
correct. And and which, which platforms
are we broadcasting? On on YouTube and my personal

(01:05:09):
Facebook profile until I can getit moved to the podcast.
OK. Wonderful.
So, so for, for the folks that are on YouTube, if you look up
the hypnosis Hero podcast and onFacebook, if you look at the
also the hip hypnosis hero podcast, performing hypnosis,

(01:05:30):
there's, you know, links and events and stuff created for
when we'll go live. So you're, you're welcome to
join us. If if anybody who's listening
you know knew Jim or was a fan or has a funny story, let us
know and we can send you a link to to join us live.
So that's the 26th. The 26th, it's going to be 2:00

(01:05:54):
PM West Coast time there. There's a reason for that that,
that we chose that time. We'll we'll, we'll share that
and then you know when it's, youknow, 10:00 at night in in the
United Kingdom. So grants can be severely jet
lagged and I don't feel bad. Aw.
Shameless revenge. Yeah, it's.

(01:06:16):
But is that your cat or is that my dog that I'm hearing?
No, that is the pug under my feet.
Oh, OK. Escape Some people have kids and
for whatever reason I chose to have a lot of animals instead
and my my husband calls me dog Lisi because.
Forever I go that. That.
Poor dog just being abused. Just no.

(01:06:38):
It's a rough life, man. And then on the other end we've
got a pit bull shepherd. She's chewing a bone that she
typed from the pug. Right, right.
But anywhere I go there are there's a trail of three dogs
and now 2 cats because why not? Velcro animals spray.
And yeah. So, but yeah, it's yeah.
So I kind of wanted to circle back just kind of popped into my

(01:07:04):
head again that, you know, kind of how I got into the, the
counseling and, and stuff like that was a neighbor of mine who
did 2 tours in Iraq. You know, he, he recognized what
was going on with me and he was like, hey, dude, I had to go get
my head right. You know, I got blown up and,

(01:07:25):
you know, I was struggling with a whole bunch of stuff.
And, you know, because he was like, oh, you got to do this.
And I'm, I'm giving him like every excuse under the sun.
And he's like, all right, dude, I'm just going to kind of get
real with you. And he goes, do you He goes, do
you want to see your kids graduate high school?
You want to see your daughter get married?
And I was kind of like, well, OK.

(01:07:48):
And it was he was like, this is what a very senior, respected
leader told him, who he then, you know, kind of relayed to me
and I held him in a, you know, very, very high regard.
And it really puts it in perspective because if you don't
start sooner, that's the reality.

(01:08:08):
Yeah. And and what's what's
encouraging is, you know, kind of a not a shameless plug.
You know, I'm I'm not using thisparticular company's product,
but Nick Cumulatos was a hope. I didn't butcher his last name,
but he was AI want to say it waslike a MARSOC Raider or like a

(01:08:30):
Marine Recon, Marine Corps special operations and he was
doing a a video ad for core Med so that testosterone,
testosterone therapy. And he was like, yeah, here's
like the VA is not going to giveit to you.

(01:08:51):
They're going to give you like some garbage protocol.
You're going to go like up, down, up.
It's just going to be a mess. But he goes, I noticed all of
these things that I'm experiencing right now and and
he's listing every single symptom characteristic, all that
stuff. And I'm sitting at my desk
watching this screen and I instantly transformed into Ron

(01:09:13):
White naked on a beanbag eating Cheetos going.
I have got every single one of those I love.
That story. I, I went, you know, so I, I
called them and they were like, OK, well, here's the blood work
that you can get done, like the,the tests that we need to have
so that your primary care can dothat.
And so I get the results back. And you know, for example, like

(01:09:34):
the normal levels for testosterone in men are, But so
that's. Maybe something I'm not familiar
with, but does having PTSD and trauma actually do that for men
is that it impacts testosterone?Yeah, there there's that.
There's also head injuries. So if you if you ring your bell

(01:09:54):
pretty good. And then also what's it called
the like, explosive concussions from, yeah, you know, could be
from fireworks, it could be from, you know, using doing, you
know, dynamic like explosive entry.

(01:10:16):
Don't jump, you've got so much to live for.
Why are you doing this to me today?
Let's not do this today. I can breathe.
You're like doing all those things just to keep the cat from
going. Yes.
It's like, oh, not my shoes, butyeah, the yeah, they're finding

(01:10:37):
a lot of stuff like, you know, if you if you hit your head
really hard, guys that are doinglike explosive breaching flat,
you know, being in the room with, with flash bangs and you
know. Stuff.
Like that the. It.
Yeah, no, I get it now. I didn't get a discussion, just
goes. It just goes right through your
body. Well, yeah, but here's the
thing. So the nervous system takes such

(01:10:58):
a hit that it gets stuck in thatplace of why bother to produce
correct hormones for survival when we're not surviving right
if the body thinks it's going todie because of the shock?
And then it. Has no need for testosterone,
does it? Well, it, it was also a
combination of that and I went from running 3 miles a day and

(01:11:18):
you know, 2 hours in the swimming pool and you know, all
the running, jumping, climbing trees in the military, falling
out of airplanes with style and creativity.
If you've never experienced vertical flight, I encourage you
to do it because when you exit the airplane, the mortgage
doesn't matter. You want to talk about living in
the moment. And I joke that it's only a

(01:11:39):
suicide attempt until the parachute opens.
And if you do a tandem jump, you've got somebody who's pot
committed as well to, to not do the human lawn dart thing.
And it's just, it's one of the most profound and beautiful and
peaceful things while you're hurtling to the earth at, you
know, 100 miles an hour. My husband hurt his body doing

(01:12:00):
some of those jumps, I'm sure ofit, but every time I ask him he
would still do it again. My mom did a a civilian, you
know, she did the, you know, like the freefall tandem jump on
her 60th birthday and she goes, I wish I did it 20 years ago.
I said mom 20 years ago when I when I did it, I'm gonna quote

(01:12:21):
Dennis Leary that in your eyes Iwas an 18 year old kid who
didn't know shit about shit and I needed to pull up my pants.
Yeah. But, you know, lo and behold, it
was exactly how I described everything would be.
You know, she was like, OK, yeah, I did it.
That was enough for me. But.
Yeah, it was. Yeah.
So going. Yeah.
So anyway, we were. My husband down your your

(01:12:43):
husband did airborne school and.Ohh yeah.
He wants he he would love to do it all over again if he could.
This Bobby would let him. Airborne school was just one of
those things that like, you check the box to run around and
fall down for two weeks, and then it's three days of just
yeah, I, I learned in airborne school that your body can shit

(01:13:05):
clap the crust of the earth super hard and live.
But it was yeah. That that was.
I can't imagine doing it now. I mean, I no, I'm like I would
never. Heard of me?
I, I, I need a lot of nap time after, after jump week, but it

(01:13:26):
was, you know, just, you know, some of the stuff like in the
plane, you know, you always tendto have a good time on jumps.
Things happen. But yeah, going going back to
the, the testosterone therapy, it was, you know, the
operational training tempo and just the activity level to then
I got out, I started flying a desk.

(01:13:48):
And so just like your body goes,we don't need all of that
adrenaline and all these things.So we're just going to power
down. Well, then you get the brain
fog, you get the memory loss, the questioning your sanity,
weight gain. You know, I don't have the body
of a Greek God anymore. It's more of a dad bod.
And you know, it's, you know, all of those things kind of play

(01:14:09):
a role. And then it was, you know, I'm
not a fan of like of needles. It's not that I won't get a
tattoo. I just don't know what I want
permanently on my body. I go do the IV therapy.
So getting an IV isn't a horrible experience for me.
I'm just not going to look. But.

(01:14:30):
I can give somebody something that would help with that.
I can give somebody else an IV because I'm like, I can't hurt
me. You're the one on the pokey on
the receiving end of the pokey bed.
That's actually different than fear of needles, because it's
more about the discomfort than it is the needle itself.
So kind of a trick. A special forces medic shared

(01:14:50):
this with me. He goes when they swab your arm
with the little alcohol wet wipetype thing, fan the hell out of
it. Like make sure that it is dry,
dry, dry. Because when they, when you
Pierce the skin, yeah, that capillary action just wants to
suck any of the moisture from the rubbing alcohol in.
And that's what stings. Now, if you've got someone who
doesn't know what they're doing,doing and they just blow out the

(01:15:11):
back of your vein like, well, that's problematic too.
But there's, there's this I, I've, there's a, so with the
testosterone therapy, one of thethings you have to do is like
donate blood and get a lot of red blood cell count.
It's increased. And so, you know, I, I'm on a
protocol to, it's like once a month I've got to go in and it's

(01:15:35):
a blood donation. They throw it away.
But there's this little Vietnamese lady, Miss Chao.
It's a Seattle, Virginia, God bless her.
And I walk in and she's got to be like 3 feet tall.
I'm super exaggerating this, butjust this tiny little like Angel
of a woman who, you know, she calls me back and she's like the
Vietnamese nail lady like. Oh, Mr. Babe, so good to see

(01:15:59):
you. Welcome.
And come right this way. You come sit down.
And which? Arm it and I'm totally doing the
the accent like horrible. But you know, she's like the
first time that she drew my blood.
I'm thinking to myself, Oh my God, she doesn't speak English.
I hardly understand the words that are coming out of her mouth
like, OK, please don't like screw this up.
And you know, admittedly prejudged.

(01:16:21):
I should repent for that, but I'm doing it now and giving her
credit. So she's kind of like, and I'm
like squeezing my fist for all it's worth.
And she's like, you know which arm I'm like, look, I'll make
you a deal. I'm gonna give you a garden hose
to shoot at your your job is to not miss.
And she's like, OK, now she starts screwing with me.

(01:16:41):
Yeah. I saw this on YouTube and I've
done this once or twice. We'll see how it works and of
course this I'm going like. That's a little bit after my own
heart. That's.
There's about a 5050 probabilitythat this is an accurate
statement. And yeah.
And so oh. God.
She, she's like. OK, make fist and ready 12.

(01:17:06):
Three. And then I hear.
Click and she goes. OK, all done.
I'm like, I barely felt anything.
So now I go in there and I'm like miss.
Chao, what's up? How are you doing?
Oh, I'm at the Bay right here. Come sit down.
And I'm like, all right. Send it, lady.
Let's go. And she's just so smooth, so
awesome. It's, it's amazing.
You know, the, the IB clinic, it's Seattle, VA is absolutely

(01:17:28):
wonderful, great, great folks down there.
And so yeah, it was giving myself the the testosterone
injections, like you have to give yourself a shot.
It's like super not natural. The first one was really weird.
And then after that, I was like,OK, now the second one, not so
bad. Now I'm feeling so much better.

(01:17:51):
And then it's like every other day I look forward like I get to
take my shot today. I'm not afraid of giving myself
the injections. Now, am I gonna give myself an
IV? Probably not.
But. In good circumstances, no.
I'm like, I, I can grab a, an inch of you pinch a little, grab
a skin and put a little insulin needle in there and, and, and

(01:18:11):
send her home, you know, But yeah, it's, it's really
identifying like good, good doctors to work with.
Yeah. The in having somebody who's
willing to not really like step out, you know, color outside the
lines. But finding someone who goes I
recognize what you need and I'm going to help you get there.

(01:18:35):
And having just having that humanity.
Yeah, it's, it's not just, you know, kind of go, admittedly,
I'm going to go on my little soapbox for a second that our
current Western healthcare system has turned commercial
doctors. Doctors no longer practice
medicine. They basically have an
association matrix where they go, OK, we're going to line up

(01:18:57):
symptoms with this here's your treatment.
Go not let's look at at the blood work.
You know, I, I remember. I don't even run a full panel
anymore. You have to pay extra for a full
panel to actually get insight asto what's.
Happening. I'm looking at the date, it's
the 23rd. So it was, it was a couple years

(01:19:20):
ago today I stormed out like I almost came to blows with an
endocrinologist. I said, hey, I've had this
prescription for this. If I can get it through the VA
community care and I don't have to come out of pocket.
This has been helpful. I've had like 2 years on on

(01:19:41):
this. Oh well, your blood work says
that your testosterone levels are fine.
I'm like, yes, because I, I'm just coming off of it.
I've got like 4 more days of youknow, of medication left and
she's like, Oh well you're goingto have to come off of it for
like 3 months. Then we have to test you and if

(01:20:03):
your testosterone levels are low, you have to wait X amount
of time. Then we have to test you again.
Then we can diagnose you. Then we can do.
Then I was like, I'm going to goplay in traffic by then.
So let's have you get worse so that we can, you know,
substitute for something that's not going to help you get
better. And I'm like.
I looked at her and I said. What?

(01:20:24):
If I was a cancer patient, you've got to be like, well
we've got to cure your cancer and then you've got to re catch
cancer again so we can resume your treatment.
I said that's. I mean if you're in Canada I
hear the going prescription these days is.
Have you tried dying because it's faster?
That's that's the solution with the with the veterans up there.
And, and so I remember, I just, she goes well, well, what's
your, you know, so well, how didyou get diagnosed?

(01:20:50):
And I said, well, I sent in my initial blood test results from
when I first was diagnosed. And so it's like every place
uses what numbers are convenient.
So your traditional, you know, air quote normal ranges are
around 3:50, maybe 400 to 900 or1000.
I think it's like milligrams persomething measurement.

(01:21:15):
I, I'm not sure Anyway, my number was like scraping the
bottom of the three hundreds, you know, 3-10, something like
that. And I was like, I'm 3839 years
old and I've got the testosterone levels of like an
85 year old man. Like I should not be down this
far. And she's like, Oh, well,

(01:21:36):
you're, you're still in the normal range.
I was like. Yeah, by by for.
Your. For your sick care in the normal
range, I don't, I don't go by those.
And I and I looked at her and, and again, this is where my kind
of my dark humor came in and, you know, ended up just kind of
beating feet out of there. But I looked at her and I said,
what if we put the pulse ox reader on the end of your finger

(01:21:57):
and then I water board you or hold your head underwater where
you can't breathe and you stop struggling and everything.
And then I pull you up. You get a couple of breaths and
then I just lather, rinse, repeat until your pulse ox goes
down to like 93%. And I'm like, well, she's not
dead yet. And then it just kind of I was

(01:22:20):
like, she's like, So what are you?
Are you trying to threaten me? And I said, no, I'm drawing a
parallel. I said, if you had your oxygen
saturation like this minimal amount, but you're still alive.
That's kind of what you're telling me that I'm at with with
with the testosterone stuff, even though I'm telling you here
is the here, here, here is the path to success.

(01:22:41):
Like this is what has been working.
Here is the recipe. I just need you to kind of pick
this up and continue mission. Just help and and you're telling
me no. And then she was like, well,
you're starting to get hostile. And I just finally went like, do
I need to call security? I'm like, you know what?
No, it sounds like this is just an effing waste of my time.

(01:23:04):
And she looked me dead in the eye and went, well, it sounds
like it's a waste of my time too.
And I'm like if I had not workedwith Jim or Dan, assuming that
we had the ability. To be going in a different
direction. Oh yeah, Brian would have been a
convicted felon for just beatinga medical professional at their

(01:23:25):
own shoes. But I, I remember I just, it was
kind of towards the end of the COVID stuff.
So I remember I just threw the door open and I walked back out
into the lobby and I dropped the, the little mask.
Yeah. That they give you.
Yeah. And this, this middle-aged woman
is like, excuse me, Sir. And I kind of turned.
Can't even. And I just kind of had these

(01:23:46):
like just eyes were just I'm I'mready to do horrible things.
And she was you dropped your mask and I remember hearing
myself just audibly growling at her and I turned and just walked
off. And so the, the doors to the,
the medical facility, they, they've got the like the outer

(01:24:10):
doors, like you, you see it likea grocery store that's slide
back and forth. And then you've got a little
foyer, you know, one or two steps and then you've got inner
doors. So I'm coming from the inside
going out and the little sensor doesn't sense me fast enough.
And I'm thinking, oh, well, these are like the push doors
that you go out like a normal office lobby.
And I remember I just like arms up, pushed, just blew through

(01:24:34):
them. And then I heard the doors
making expensive noises. I'm like rut row.
These aren't supposed to do that.
So I kind of like set them back on their tracks.
And then the little proximity sensor is like, these are
opening and closing. I'm like, all right, They're
operating as they should be as far as I'm concerned.
And I went home and, you know, called, called the patient
advocate and I'm like, Hey, I don't what the hell happened,

(01:24:56):
But this is just like this was not okay and.
Yeah, and you're at the point where you can laugh at it now.
But for other people who had nothad the help, the interventions,
who didn't know about, you know,Jim or Dan, they might be in a
totally different situation. Well, and, and also how many
times have people just had the door slammed in their face,

(01:25:16):
slammed in their face, slammed in their face.
And it's like, OK, you need to talk to this person.
And, and it's almost, I've gotten kind of the, the vibe, if
you will, that it's, it's like some providers kind of look at
I've got the superiority complexwhere it's I've got, I've got
the solution to your problem. But if you don't dance, monkey
dance, I'm just going to deny itand go ha ha, ha, ha, ha.

(01:25:39):
I've got. And I remember the, the medical
doctor. So there, there's a nurse
practitioner, the ARNP that I gosee.
And then there's the MD that's kind of overseas, if you will.
And so the nurse practitioner that that doc was like, yeah,
I'm all about testosterone. I can refill like an order the

(01:26:00):
prescription, the MD steps in. So I get on the, the messaging
with, with him and I'm like, hey, like, what's the deal?
You cancelled my prescription. And he goes, yeah, well, I want
you to go do this. I, I'm not a fan of testosterone
therapy. And I said, well, tell me why
you're not a fan. And he goes, well, I just don't
know a whole lot about it. And I went, so if you don't know

(01:26:20):
a whole lot about it, how can you draw the conclusion that
you're not a fan and that this is not a good course of action
for me? And he didn't have an answer for
me. And I was like, OK, you're
fired. Yep.
Yep. But I mean, it's like I said,
you get enough people just slamming doors in your face.
Someone's just going to go, yeah, I'm going to take my ball

(01:26:42):
and go home. I don't want to play anymore.
And, you know, so I, you and then when you're looking at I'm
trying to trying to pick how I want to say this, there's an
element that I try to treat people with kindness and give
them a benefit of the doubt. But then also you're kind of
keeping track of, you know, being on the lookout for like
red flags. Not that I'm looking for them or

(01:27:02):
actively seeking them out. I just want to be able to
observe them should they should they come up.
And it's like, I'll give anybodythe level of respect and I'll be
nice and I'll be professional until it's time to not be, you
know, when tacked and diplomacy have failed, it's it's it's like
it's go time. Concern is, you know, for the
people who don't have that ability to make that shift

(01:27:24):
because their nervous system is stuck or maybe they had prior
trauma to service and so there may be more of a fond responder.
They tend more towards a freeze rather than, OK, I'm going to
self advocate and let them know where to go and fire the doctor
and hire somebody else. You know, there are a lot of
people who are just kind of stuck, I think in people

(01:27:44):
pleasing. And so they, they don't realize
that there are other options andthey don't speak up for
themselves. So they don't get what they
need. Well, there's a lot of, there's
a lot of that. And then there's, I think it
kind of coincides with after a while, you just, if it's that
lifestyle is all you know, Yeah,it becomes familiar and you get

(01:28:06):
beaten down to the point where you're like, hey, I don't want
to get my hopes up anymore because I can't take.
Another disappointment. Another disappointment,
something being, you know, slammed in my face.
It's another failure. I I'm, I'm familiar with just
this being how it is. Yeah.
So I'm, I'm reluctant to change even though someone goes, oh,

(01:28:29):
trust me, trust me, trust me. Because, you know, with the VA
system, you're, you're calling into like call centers, You're
not, you know, I mean the fortunately in my situation,
like the, the IV clinic, I've got a Direct Line.
I can call and go, hey, can I switch, you know, 10:00 to 1:00
and they're like, yeah, sounds good.
Cool point click done. See you later today or I'm stuck

(01:28:52):
in traffic. I'm going to be 20 minutes late.
You know, that's great. But when you're like, I've got
to go try to manage healthcare by committee.
You don't get that one-on-one thing.
You've got a, you know, if you got a unique situation, it's
like every person you talk to, you've got to go start at square
1 and tell them the whole back story and then they go, let me
try to get an answer on that andget back to you.

(01:29:12):
And then there's. No communication beyond, beyond
that office, beyond that border.So you're having, you know, more
complex care. Those limbs are never
communicating with each other. I'm, I'm absolutely convinced
that that middle management exists in the VA medical and a
lot of, you know, corporate stuff is to be the cannon fodder

(01:29:35):
and, and the in the, the insulation that Shields upper
level like senior executive management from any type of
responsibility or accountability.
And they just get to go have meetings to schedule other
meetings, you know, for lack of a better term, like I called you
stroke one another off and be like, we're super awesome with
our six and seven figure salaries.

(01:29:57):
And and it's like we can just report to our board of investors
and board of directors like we're doing.
We're star spangled awesome. And it's like, no, yeah, brutal.
So what do you have planned for the holidays?
Nothing. It's glorious.

(01:30:17):
My spouse will probably keep thewood stove burning.
If we're lucky, he will pick up a prime rib on the way home and
we will survive off that for thenext couple of days and just be
in our own little quiet bubble of, you know, being military.
And red blooded if. He's a red blooded American.
He should be picking up red meat.
He is, but he's in the recruiting office and he never

(01:30:40):
gets out on time and he works anhour away from home.
So it's a question of timing more than anything else.
I didn't have time today either,but.
And I realized, oh, today's the 23rd, Yeah.
I'm like nobody. In the military three days
before Christmas. Tell that to his command, who's
had him in Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, 12 hours a day.

(01:31:02):
The man doesn't leave the officeuntil 7:00 PM and then he's got
an hour drive home. He's lucky if he's eaten
anything. He gets home and he just melts
into the couch or the computer chair or these days that because
he's so tired. Yeah, I'm, I'm like.
And they're pouring over lists of people who they've already
contacted, who are not interested, who have their mind

(01:31:24):
on other things. It's just ridiculous.
People just start responding to those texts with Oklahoma
pineapple. I do not consent I.
Shouldn't laugh. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it was, yeah. It's just, yeah.
I mean, a lot of people, they one they don't.

(01:31:45):
The military gets a lot of like bad press.
Yeah. It does.
It really does. There's a lot of good that came
from his career. His career really has sustained
our family. I got a fabulous education.
Our health is good. We have good health coverage.
We have so many benefits. You know when he first began.
He has been military since I've met him.

(01:32:06):
We met online thing World of Warcraft.
That's how a Canadian ends up, you know, implanted here, right?
And we really lived in poverty for the first little while
because we both left really unhealthy marriages in the most
codependent way possible. So we both started out with
nothing left. The X is everything.

(01:32:29):
And you know, we went through the whole parental aerial
alienation and issues there and then raised a child with a lot
of mental health challenges and for better, for worse.
I walked out with complex PTSD service.
Not, not the Army veteran. No, that's not the one that's
got PTSD. It's the wife.

(01:32:49):
It's the gift that keeps on giving.
It is, it really is, but I'm also grateful for all of that
because I wouldn't be who I am. And so now I do things like
iemt, which is integral eye movement technique.
I don't know if you've had a chance to try that or did you
even pursue EMDR in the process of your healing?
No, you're doing a lot of alphabet stuff.

(01:33:12):
IMT is so it has similarities toEMDR now.
When I had complex PTSD I was already a clinical
hypnotherapist. But you're so lost in your own
sauce. It doesn't matter what you know
or what skills you have, you canhave even your way to bed every
single night. It's not going to fix it.

(01:33:32):
And so I did actually get therapy and I got help.
And through the process, I looked for someone who did EMDR.
And while we're doing MDR, I'm looking at my practitioner and
I'm telling him, you've got me in the sweet spot for trance.
Throw me some positive suggestions, will you?
Yeah. You've already had me relive all
the trauma you miss Will give mesomething good out of this and
he's looking at me like I'm. You should be paying me for

(01:33:53):
training. He's looking at me like I'm from
another planet. I'm like, I'm a hypnotist, trust
me. Just just add these things,
please. And he wouldn't.
In any case, that was really dangerous for me.
EMDR was helpful, but what was happening was I was not grounded
or safe when I was leaving the office.
And then I'm going to get in my car.
Three times I was nearly hit, and one time I nearly hit

(01:34:15):
somebody else trying to get out of the goddamn parking lot for
the appointment. So actually, after the little
bit of relief that I got, I stopped and I said there has to
be something better. And it's like, how do I
integrate this with hypnotherapy?
And so I started searching around, that's when I found the
trainer that I got, which is Matt Kendall, who trains IEMT,
which was made by Andrew T Austin out of the OK.

(01:34:39):
And what I love about it is it'sgot the similarities in that
we're using the mechanism of theeye movement, but then I also
get to lace hypnosis in in a waythat's really powerful.
But then also my person is not having to relive anything.
It's content free. So we are taking anything
attached to the memory, any emotion in any patterns of

(01:35:00):
behavior, and we're just changing the neural pathways in
real time. And for the people that it works
for, it's life changing. So I love that I get to do that.
And the most common thing I hearis why aren't you doing this for
the military? And it's because honestly, I
don't even know where to begin. But I would love to do this for
more first responders. But that whole journey has

(01:35:21):
brought me to to this basically,which is how I understand so
much of what you've been throughwith trauma.
Thankfully, I didn't have to go through the VA, so I didn't have
that side of it. Yeah.
My husband hasn't deployed. Well, that's that's a whole
other thing. Yeah.
That I have to deal with, and that's not been fun.

(01:35:42):
That's been challenging. It's it's not.
And really, I think one of my saving graces and you know, this
is not a political endorsement. This isn't I, I'm, I'm speaking
factually. So, you know, love him or hate
him, President Trump signed the Mission Act into effect, which

(01:36:06):
established the VA's community care system.
So, for example, like if I wanted to go get chiropractor or
chiropractic treatment, 65 milesone way.
So that could be, you know, an hour to two hours in traffic,
you know, depending on on conditions and you know, that's

(01:36:29):
a that's 130 mile round trip to go get crunch crack and that's
if they've got availability versus.
And then you ruin it by sitting in the car all the way home.
Yeah, like, or I could or I could or, you know, I, they the
VA contracts with a civilian provider and says, hey, pop down

(01:36:50):
the street. So with, without that structure,
I would not be able to get, I would not be able to get, you
know, the, the medical, you know, just the routine medical
care, you know, the chiropractic, the massage, the
different things. I mean, yeah, I still have to
kind of play mother may I with the VA for everything.
And they kind of dole it out like a stingy, you know,

(01:37:13):
kindergartener, you know, sharing their toys.
But it's. Excuse me?
You know, it, it is what it is. It, it's, it's better than it
was. And then the, the lady who, who
did my disability claim, as soonas I found out it was I think
right before Thanksgiving last year, I, I called her business

(01:37:35):
partner and said, hey, like succeed, you know, touchdown
where everything's good. She calls me like an hour later
and she goes, hey, I'm sorry, I've kind of been on the off the
radar. She goes President Trump got
reelected. I just got appointed to his,
his, you know, administration. I've been, I've been rewriting,

(01:37:56):
you know, revised drafts on VA policy on how to make, make
things better because she's 20 something years of seeing how,
you know, the shortfalls and, and stuff.
And she's like, yeah, I speak toDoug Collins like weekly.
And she goes, I'm going to go spend like 5 hours briefing the
president on this stuff. And I'm like, OK, that's the

(01:38:17):
person that I want in my corner.And we're starting to see
changes. Things are moving a little bit
more efficiently. So, you know, it's still the
speed of government, but you know, we're, we're headed in the
right direction and, and forwardprogress, you know, no matter
how small is still forward progress.
So, you know, I'm cautiously optimistic there.
Yeah, so President Trump is the one thing that Jim and I did not

(01:38:41):
agree on. And when I was delightfully
singing at That's my president and I was happy, he was never
more disgusted with me. And it's like, you know, I like
the man that goes to the office and I know that he's working.
I can see that things are happening.
And and that's, you know, ratherthan being gas lit by someone

(01:39:01):
behind a desk saying he's sharp as a tack and doing absolutely
nothing in the country is going downhill in front of my eyes.
I don't like being gas lit so no.
Well, the. Yeah, here, here.
Here's how I describe it. Is there?
You know, I anybody can have their criticisms of of anybody

(01:39:21):
and, you know, like if I was gonna say Trump.
Would be perfect. I don't know.
Trump does the Trump does the T Rex arms and kind of repeats
himself. Like, yeah, if that's the worst
thing about him, like, okay, I'll take that all day long.
But I look at it if if I'm, if I'm ever accused of a crime and
I need to hire a criminal defense attorney, I don't care

(01:39:43):
what he does on his personal time.
I don't care what his get. The job done.
Yeah, I don't care if he's been married four times or whatever.
If he's on five businesses, I'm hiring you to do a job.
We're not out there to be drinking buddies, and if you're
effective and you can get thingsdone, great.
And I don't, I don't require perfection.

(01:40:04):
You know, I've never been a person who requires perfection
from other people. And I find it so weird that we
look to different people in the government, in Hollywood and we
expect perfect. It's like whoever said they were
supposed to be role models like.Well, it's, it's, you're doing a
job that there is, it's super indepth and you need a lot of

(01:40:30):
advice. You know, somebody who is, I
mean, the United States for not,not all intents and purposes,
but but the United States, I think it's fair to say the
United States has been referred to commonly as or the president
of the United States has been commonly referred to as the
leader of the free world. I'm, I'm not like a super fan
that like we kind of tend to be the world police, but we're also

(01:40:52):
at the same time we're that melting pot of, of so many
different, you know, cultures and things like that.
So to to put the responsibility to have all of the answers on a
single man's shoulders, it's an unrealistic expectation.
And then you gotta think he's being pitched by people with an
agenda all day long. And so it's not just getting the

(01:41:14):
information, it's discerning. OK, what's your take in this?
And what's the actual term to? Do this with.
The briefing. Goodness.
And, and it's also one of those things where he's he's quick to
go, Hey, I appointed this personand it was a mistake.
Yeah. I, you know, and he'll own it.

(01:41:36):
I'm. Not gonna lie, I was
disappointed about the Epstein files.
I was disappointed that he made a remark that was a little
gaslighty. And it's like, are you, are we
still talking about this? I was like, yes, Mr. President,
we're still very much talking about that.
I was disappointed with. But otherwise, I'm happy with
the work that he does in office and.

(01:41:58):
It, it's, it's really odd. I, I'd like to put a little bit
of trust and, and I'm going to kind of put my caveat there that
he's got access to stuff that that we don't.
And, and I'll, I'll kind of drawa parallel.
We had, I live in a, the county that I live in is, is Snohomish

(01:42:22):
County. And so not the current sheriff,
but the one before, as soon as he got elected, he came from
being one of the sergeants that ran against the sheriff.
He won and a couple of his colleagues had been fired by the
previous incumbent sheriff that that lost the election.
And when he said I'm going to I have not promised these these

(01:42:46):
two deputies to get rehired. What I promised them is I will
give them a fair look at their file because then I will have
access to all of the facts, the entire, you know, big picture.
And if it warrants upholding termination, I'll do that.
If it warrants bringing you, youknow, overturning it and
bringing you guys back, I will. And then he gave a, you know,

(01:43:08):
rather lengthy memo. So on that, my hope is that
Trump has either been briefed orhas had a chance to review this
stuff. And it's like, yeah, there's not
a whole lot that's going to yield fruit when it comes to
releasing everything. Because if you have to keep all
of the redactions and stuff there to, you know, the innocent
victims, you don't want their names and images and stuff's out

(01:43:30):
there. It's like, is that juice going
to be worth the squeeze? I don't know.
But I think he was also like, look, the guy's dead.
You, you can't go and undo this.We can't put Jeannie back in the
bottle. And you know, it is horrible.
And not to discount the atrocities that Mayor Man have

(01:43:54):
taken place, it's like we've gotsome pretty big fish to fry,
right? Yeah, it wasn't that he couldn't
put Genie back in the bottle. It was the way that he chose to
handle it. And you know, had he said, you
know what, learning what I've learned, I can't approach this
in the same way, I would have totally respected this.
Oh yeah, the. Minute I'm gaslit, I am done

(01:44:16):
with the person like I'm flat out cold done and.
If you, if you ask I, I think when it, when it comes to that
subject, you asked 10,000 peoplewhat he should have done, you're
probably going to get 10,000 anddifferent answers.
And you know, I, I certainly don't.
I, I certainly don't envy the responsibility.

(01:44:36):
No, neither do I. I, I think that, you know, my,
we, we struggle with this in, inWashington state and it kind of
makes me sad that. I used to live in Washington
state, do you know that? What?
What part? Spokane.
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
That's right. That's right.
It's kind of the Republican Party is we have mail in voting

(01:44:58):
and the a lot of people that are, you know, the conservative,
the right side, the Republican voters, they're convinced that
the balloting system is corrupt.And so they just go, I'm not
going to vote. My vote doesn't count.
It doesn't mean anything. It's not even worth licking the
stamp or you don't even need to put a stamp on it.
It's it's not worth licking the envelope.

(01:45:20):
And I'm kind of sitting there going like, but if you don't
vote, the other side wins by default, right?
And and so we're just, you know,it's like we're so disillusioned
just a little. Trust in the systems that my
mind goes to. If you don't vote, someone else
is going to use your name, probably.
Yeah, where my mind goes. So this was actually my first

(01:45:40):
time. This was my first time voting as
an American citizen. Oh, congratulations.
And I was really freaking happy to vote for President Trump.
So love that. Hate that about me.
No that. Is what it is.
I I. Think, I think we're trying to
move, I'm trying to move in a, in a direction that, you know,
one of the things that that I like about him is that, you

(01:46:01):
know, he's a straight shooter and granted, you know, Bernie
Sanders was like, I'm a. The man doesn't.
The man doesn't drink. Yeah, and that's one of the cool
things that he promotes. And it's like, OK, that's,
that's his choice. Yeah, but it's.
Neither do I, so I I really appreciate that about.

(01:46:21):
What I really do like you can tell when when he's fired up
Yeah. And we we all have our good days
and bad days. And I mean imagine if you had
the amount of very. Highly public Bad day?
Well. I.
Mean you, you, he. He is under such a microscope
and being attacked on on multiple fronts.

(01:46:44):
And, you know, are there some things that that I disagree with
him on? Yeah, yeah, I, I have, I have
opinions on on both sides of theaisle, but I'm I'm generally
going to to net, you know, fairly right of center.
And an attorney that I work for did a great job of explaining it

(01:47:06):
to me. He says, Brian, you know, the
the population is like a big bell curve.
You've got the majority of the people, the bulk of everybody is
kind of right on that center, you know, hovering left or
right, but but very, very close to center.
And then you've got these outliers that are far left, far
right, and those tend to be the loudest people and the most

(01:47:28):
obnoxious. And then everybody who is in the
center on one side or the other gets roped in with those yahoos.
Yeah. And.
And there are the far right extremes as well.
It's, you know, it's both, there's extreme on both ends,
right? If you imagine, you know, every
time the man tries to say something, he's got to be

(01:47:48):
thinking about the various mediaoutlets and how many different
ways it's going to be taken out of context for something, you
know, like you'll see it in all directions.
No matter what he says it's. Wild.
And the cool thing is that you're starting to see people.
You're starting to see people wake up.
Yeah, the Mr. and Missus Rener, you know, with, with their

(01:48:11):
deaths, it was like the responsewas, you know, like what
happened to them. And I'm, I'm paraphrasing, like
very basic stuff. It was like what happened to
them was bad. It was a hurt, you know, a
horrific act. And then it was like he dude was
a critic of mine. And then this type of stuff

(01:48:33):
comes up and sort of, you know, the, the bad side of the like
the liberal left, you know, where they get super worked up
about things. And this is kind of a result.
It's almost like saying this person overdosed, it was bad,
they had an addiction. Addiction kind of leads to this.
And everybody's like, oh, well, you're just, everybody has

(01:48:54):
struggles and you're just you, you can't, I'm like, OK, when,
when do you stop making excuses for people?
And and stuff like that. And it was like every like he's
in a no win situation because ifhe if he acknowledges it and
just goes, yeah, that was that was bad.
It's like, Oh, well, you're justgoing to let him.
You know, it's like the the Mr. Reiner passed and then all of a

(01:49:20):
sudden we just completely ignoresome of those vile and ignorant
stuff that he said and hateful things that he said about the
president. And the president still has
enough class to go. Yeah, he, this was wrong.
We don't condone it. And, you know, let let the
judicial process play out. And it's like, oh, he was too

(01:49:41):
harsh. And then if he doesn't, it's
like, oh, well, he was too lenient and, you know, just
walks all over. And yeah, so it's, it's like I
said in in my life, I don't, I, I try to shield myself from
people like that. I'm also not running the
country. Yeah.
If if I was, things would be, would would change.
I'd adopt the Calvin and Hobbes model of I will become ruler and

(01:50:05):
supreme dictator for life. So we got way off on a tangent.
Yeah, but PHS is coming. Are you presenting this year?
I I I'm helping to present the whole thing.
Of. I I'm going to be doing a lot of
pointy talkie going. Yeah.
Go this way, sit here, corral all this.

(01:50:26):
The speakers heard folks into rooms and between Grant and Sean
and and I were going to try to keep the train on the rails.
But yeah, it's it's going to be a great time.
You know, I, I've got to give Casey Casey a lot of credit if
you guys haven't met her and themorale officer Brewster the the

(01:50:48):
dog, he's got an incredible story.
But Casey had been just taking training for years and
conference after conference and studying the craft and
everything like that. And then we finally, she was
able to do her first show. So I'm incredibly proud of her.
She's going to be, she's had a handful of shows under her belt
so far this year and you know it.

(01:51:11):
I don't want to say that we pulled the Army recruiter thing
on her, but we went, hey, what'sthe title of your talk that
you're going to do this year at PHS?
And she's like, I don't know. And I said, how about this as a
title and kind of throw some of these things with your
experience of, you know, going from, you know, training to
finally just taking that step and get getting your show.

(01:51:31):
And she was like, Oh my God, that sounds great.
I'm like, cool, I think you're on for a Saturday or something.
Yeah. So we we.
Kind of used a bit of of the Schwartz on her, but.
And so for those who don't know,the Performing Hypnosis Summit
is different in terms of hypnosis conferences because it
is really focused on that performative aspect and not just

(01:51:54):
clinical hypnosis, transpersonalhypnosis.
But you guys are more about the performative part, would have
heard of amazing things where your attendees are showing up
and they can be novice or they can have been lurking and
learning and finally they're stepping out and getting the
light of the day as a result of attending and working with you
guys. No.

(01:52:14):
So, yeah. So the performing there, it's,
it's a wide kind of a wide spectrum because there's a lot
that goes into it. I think the first year that I
was out there, Allen Sands did apresentation on on audio from
how you roll your speaker cables.

(01:52:35):
Here's how Here's the best practice to to use the gaffing
tape to put your cables on the floor.
Cable management, the different types of speakers, how you can
use them for, you know, aiming sound, not getting feedback,
those types of things to how youyou Orient everything on stage.

(01:52:56):
I think Joe Beth did, he did a presentation on your marketing
how you can, you know, present opportunities to do fundraising
for for shows where you're not having your your client and.
That's where he really signs, isn't it?
The fundraising aspect? He does a lot of that.
Yeah, and and and really good. Success too.

(01:53:17):
And, and it's proven. Yeah.
You know, Kevin, Kevin Lapine did, did great talks on, you
know, just being safe on stage. You know, all of his experience
on how he, you know, kind of hisroad to how he became a 15 year
plus Las Vegas headliner. He got the greats like Michael
Deshala. Chris Jones was what was up

(01:53:39):
there. You know, Chris Jones was on
America's Got Talent and kind ofruns around the college market.
Salish is kind of the God of, of, of the college market and,
and doing shows out there and it, you know, people ask like,
Oh my God. Well, I don't know if I
attended. I don't know, like what to say,
you know, this, this group of people.
And I'm like, show up and say hi.

(01:54:00):
And if you recognize somebody. Hey, you're so and so right.
Oh, yeah. Hi.
I'm such and such. Oh, cool.
Welcome. The thing I've learned about
stage and performative hypnotis is that they're socially awkward
like the rest of us, and possibly more introverted than
the rest of us. And I didn't think that at

(01:54:23):
first. I thought you guys all must be
extroverted, know how to turn onthe charm.
And it's like, oh, that's a skill set, God.
Yeah, so. The the the first year I was
down there, I knew of Terry Stokes.
I knew Terry Stokes Junior. I knew the names.
Yeah. And I think I I was.
Really happy to get to see a Terry Stokes show this last year

(01:54:47):
at Heartland. Yeah, so I, I think I'd been at
the hotel couple hours and I was, I forgot I was walking with
somebody and they were like, oh,here, you know, I'm gonna go run
over and see if I can find TerryStokes.
And so of course he was in the bar having a nice Scotch and sat

(01:55:09):
down like somebody ran off to the restroom.
And so he asked me. He's like, oh, so tell me about
yourself. I'm like Army veteran and such
and such. Used to jump out of airplanes
and he's like, oh, tell me what that's like.
And so I kind of just start talking about it and he's like,
OK, so I'm gonna use you as a prop in one of my presentations.
And I'm kind of like, I'm not sure if I like where this is

(01:55:30):
going, if this is good or bad orretired.
Retired. Arby Yeah, no, just tired.
And so he says, hey, when you started talking, like I can tell
that you're passionate about something, like your face lights
up and you get kind of animated and everything.
And I was like, oh, sorry, I need to dial back my tism.
And he goes, no, no, no. Like, that's one of those

(01:55:51):
things. And so short story long, we
don't, he does his presentation.I'm not used as a prop or
anything, but it was just a fun conversation.
You know, he wasn't like, you know, it wasn't like he met me
and he just held his hand out tobe like, all right, thou shall
kiss the ring. Not a lot of ego.

(01:56:11):
And I think the biggest selling point that I would that I would
put to anybody is we're not selling anything.
Jeff Bennick did a phenomenal talk on, I think it was like
using Q Labs to design all the sound and audio and effects for
the production to queue up with lighting and things like that.

(01:56:32):
And he goes, this is what can bedone.
If you ever get a big like theater and they have all of the
specs and everything, If you want to work with me like I'm
available, I'm in Amsterdam. We'll figure out the time
difference one way or another. We can hop on Zoom or any of the
video chats and he goes, I'm available to you to answer
questions If you want me to create something for you like

(01:56:55):
there will be a charge. It'll be significantly reduced
from what I normally do, but I want to help you out And but
there was no buy my products, take my training, you know, just
in your face, high pressure stuff.
And this year, for example, one of my really good friends, Brent
Arnold from he he owns a Templarfinancial, so it's his wealth

(01:57:18):
management firm. He's Navy veteran.
We like him anyway, after the football game, I did not hear
the end of it. Some memes I sent him did not
age well and and I think I earned every bit of what he sent
back to me. But one of the things that that
I think is going to be a lot of bring a lot of value is he's

(01:57:40):
going to be talking about, you know, advanced business
planning. Or.
Advanced financial planning for any stage in in your business,
whether you're just getting started or you're like, hey,
I've got a tax shelter, some money.
You know, how you can can leverage your business to to
maximize the like the full efficiency of it to, to get the

(01:58:03):
the most out of it. Because, you know, for for
example, it's like, OK, you're gonna, you know, the the PHS is
going to be quote a business trip because you're taking
training. There's going to be something of
a business write off. Well, come in a couple days
early, stay a couple days later,turn that into a mini vacation
on either side and write the whole thing off.

(01:58:25):
Yeah. You know, and then just some
making people aware of of some different products or or things
like that to offset their taxable income and things like
that. They're going to make money for
them while they're sleeping. That's education that all
hypnotists need Overall, yeah. Yeah.

(01:58:49):
I'm hoping, hoping next year that, you know, we could get an
attorney that specializes in, you know, entertainment law.
Like, here's how to write contracts, here's how to set
things up. Because what I found, you know,
working in, you know, the legal industry is it tends to be, you
know, once I broke away from family law, is you find,

(01:59:10):
especially in the trades, you got your contractors, you got
your builders, you've got all these people.
They're great at what they do. Yeah, but they're horrible at
the administrative portion. And it's like, what do you mean
it costs $1500 to do a business plan and an operating agreement
and all that other stuff? And they're like, no, no, I
don't need that. I just need to pay a couple 100

(01:59:31):
bucks to Secretary of State incorporated myself.
Viola and then nine months laterthey go, OK, so Elle and I is
coming after me for $180,000. It's like, yeah, because you
screwed something up and it's going to cost you, you know, 10
to $15,000 for us to make a lot of that go away.
So it's, it's giving people tools in their toolbox, you

(01:59:54):
know, marketing photographer, you know, how can you delegate
these different things increase the value of the product of
your, your show or your service if you're doing hypnotherapy.
So that way you can generate that revenue to pay those
people. And guess what, You became an
entrepreneur and you just created 5 jobs.

(02:00:15):
You gave someone else the ability to utilize their talents
to put food on their table and roof over their heads.
That's what gets the economy going.
That's right. And you know, again, it's it's
all networking. You know, Casey, if if you ask
Casey, she she'll tell you that she reached out to me a handful
of other people. She's going.
I can't get the audio synced. I need three things for my show.

(02:00:37):
And I'm like, OK, yeah, cool. Let's figure out how we can get
the the stuff created e-mail over.
I think Joe Beth had, he went toHeartland last year with yeah,
that's. Right.
Christina, I think and they something happened.
They were like, hey, can you do like 3 post prom, you know,

(02:00:58):
parties or, or something for, for high schools.
So they're like, all right, cool, we're going to go out
there. And it was a couple hours drive
and they're putting their show together in the car.
Joe Beth forgot his, you know, left his iPad at home because he
wasn't planning on. Yeah, working.
You know, performing. So he gets on a Zoom with Jeff
Benning and they're like, all right here, let's do the iTunes
and drop everything into his hisiPhone.

(02:01:19):
And it was OK. So it's a lot of I think the
emphasis of of PHS is collaboration.
And you know that, that the cliche, you know all ships rise
with the tide, and you know manyhands make light work.
But you know it really is so. Yeah, because otherwise it's a
very weird industry where everybody's just working in
their own individual bubble. Like I've never seen anything

(02:01:42):
like it. And this the scarcity mentality
is, I don't want to say it's a necessary evil.
Like, I get it why people want to kind of preserve and not just
Willy nilly go throw out hypnosis training to anybody
because it, it takes one person to do something stupid and it

(02:02:04):
ruins the opportunity for so many people.
But at the same time, I think really what Jim's kind of like
the big picture goal or, or the,the objective that he was trying
to achieve, you know, besides dating Taylor Swift was creating
a creating a culture and and notso much a team.

(02:02:26):
And and I hate using the Word family because if it's like.
We're all like family. Here, that's like the biggest
red flag to go leave that employer but.
It's. Create, I think just a culture
and an environment where you have a group of people that, you
know, we, we want everybody to succeed and there's plenty of

(02:02:51):
work out there. And if we can be ambassadors of,
of the craft, and I know I'm gonna start sounding like all
Masonic, but really ambassadors of the craft representing the
industry, well, we might be ableto revive things as far as
opportunities. And I think it was earlier this

(02:03:11):
year, I think I just pulled ChatGPT and I'm like, what's the
percentage of the population that are performing hypnotists?
And it was like .00001% and I'm like, and then take how many
voting age people like 80 something odd million, you know
that that's a lot of opportunityto this out there just in the
United States. Yeah, absolutely.

(02:03:33):
You know, we had, I think Jaime came up from New Zealand last
year. We had Jason O Callaghan, the
the wedding hypnotist from Ireland who is just absolutely
crushing it over there. Same with with Alexi or you
know, Alex the Great, you know, Jeff Bennick, always a character
again from the Netherlands, Wonderful guy.

(02:03:55):
He he came over to the US for I think a couple of conferences
and yeah, kind of a quasi tour we were able to have to.
See him at Heartland and got to see him at Michigan, Yeah.
Yep, I think it was right after Michigan that that we had him on
Hypnosis Hero. So that was that was a ton of
fun. Always a pleasure to talk, talk
to him. And you know, it's just, I enjoy

(02:04:16):
what I do and, and this year, now that I've got a couple of
different things off my plate, I'm, I'm looking at hitting 2026
pretty hard, hoping that I don'thave to relocate too terribly
far from from where I'm at now. But, you know, we'll, we'll see
what, what's in store there and also what the housing market's

(02:04:39):
going to do. So it's I'm waiting to see as
well. Yeah, yeah, the, I think it's
the H1B or HB1's visas, cuz we've got, we've got Microsoft,
Amazon, Google, all that stuff is right there in the Seattle
area. So when when visas expire and

(02:05:00):
they have to get renewed, you know, there, there may be a
shift. I don't know what Washington
state is going to do with that. You know, our governor is
pretty, pretty volatile, but it's a, you know, kind of a wait
and see. And we'll hopefully the housing
market, you know, has a favorable adjustment and not
like the bottom drops out of everything.

(02:05:22):
Yeah. So it's, you know, I'm looking
forward to, to this coming year.So aside from Hypnosis Hero and
PHS, are you involved in any other things in terms of the
hypnosis world? Are you doing any other podcasts
or? Mainly hypnosis hero I think
I've I've been on with with Joe Beth a couple times.

(02:05:44):
Dan Goyette with the Hypno Magazine.
Yeah, no World Magazine. Yeah, no world yet.
And then I I pop on to hypno news with, with Grant and Sean
kind of when I trip stumble and fall into it, it's usually it's
trying to have a phone call withthem or shooting them a message.
And it's like, I don't know, we're about to hop on the

(02:06:06):
hypnosis or hypno news and I'm like, oh cool, send me a link.
I've got time. Like, let's, let's go as as far
as other organizations, you know, I'm a member of the the
Freemason fraternal organization.
There's a caveat. If you do a Google search for

(02:06:27):
Freemasonry, there's going to bea lot of weird stuff on the
Internet. A lot of costumes, yeah.
We're we're not sacrificing chickens.
There's a a lot of dumb stuff. If you, if you really want to
have a kind of a dive into what,what they're about, do the
Google search with insert state here that that you live in or

(02:06:50):
what you're curious about. And then Grand Lodge or Grand
Lodge of insert state here and kind of get to an official
website. Look at their mission statement,
their values. And then I'm sure you've
probably heard of, of Shriners, Shriners Hospitals for children.
So there's a, a local temple is what we call them close by

(02:07:11):
where, where I'm at. And so there's a lot of, you
know, fundraising stuff that we do, you know, the, the main
mission for that is raising money for children's healthcare.
So if we have a lot of like yourcleft palate, clubfoot,
scoliosis burn victims, once youonce they become a Shriner

(02:07:33):
patient, we sponsor them all theway up through age 18.
And we, if it's a medical condition that our medical staff
can treat over the 27 hospitals I think in North America and
some of the other like outpatient clinics, there's no
cost to the family we cover. It's amazing.

(02:07:55):
We, we cover 100% of the travel for at least the child and, or
for, for the child in at least one, a parent or guardian.
And so that way the regardless of, of income level, regardless
of insurance, like we have to accept some insurance and then
we pay for the rest. The, and that's just the focus

(02:08:17):
on, you know, the emphasis is the family will never receive a
bill and that way they can focuson supporting their child
through their recovery and, you know, whatever they're dealing
with. So one of the memorable cases
that, you know, still kind of get a little emotional kind of

(02:08:40):
thinking about it, It's, it's because we're, we're at that
Christmas season is and it didn't happen in Christmas.
It was think, I think it was kind of springtime.
This 16 month old baby is in Monterrey, Mexico and mom's out
in the garden just doing work asa young mother.

(02:09:01):
Well it turns out is the child gets bit in the leg twice by a
brown recluse fighter. So they finally get the the baby
to that local clinic in in Mexico and the the pediatrician
happened to be a Shriner. He calls the cell phone of a
counterpart at Shriners headquarters, Shriners

(02:09:22):
International Headquarters in Tampa, FL, who just happened to
be having dinner in Mountlake Terrace, WA at the Nile Shrine,
sitting next to a good friend ofmine who was the potentate, so
the CEO of the temple, if you will, for the year.
Phone rings. Phone rings.
Phone rings multiple times. Finally, he steps away and goes,

(02:09:42):
all right, this is important, you know, answers.
It comes back T-shirt white, like he saw a ghost, gets up,
makes his remarks like probably 20 seconds, like, thank you for
having me. Food was great.
Awesome. Hey, Dale, I got to talk to you.
How much money do you have in the travel fund?
It's like, well, here at Nile oror in Tampa.
And he goes, I need $35,000 for a medevac flight like now.

(02:10:04):
And here's why. So Dale's like, Yep, green
light. Just tell them to get all of the
wheels spinning in Mexico. We'll deal with State
Department. And this is all during COVID.
They're kind of post COVID. Where?
You know, rural Mexico, they don't really have like a lot of
administrative stuff like birth certificates and everything, but
we have special relationships with the State Department for

(02:10:27):
these things. And it was like, we need to get
this child flown from Monterrey,Mexico to the the burn unit in
Galveston. And so he's like, we'll figure
out all the paperwork, we'll figure out the money.
So it's just green light everything.
I think it was within 24 hours that within 24 hours child is on

(02:10:53):
an operating table and it was like 4:00 in the morning the
next day local time here in Washington, Dale gets the phone
call from the nurse and says, you know, of course Dale's after
dinner. He's like, all right now.
Now his wheels are spinning going 16 month old baby he's
going to need below the knee amputation because we we saw the

(02:11:17):
pictures and it was like about the infant could step on an IED
goes bad. He says, all right, this is
going to be a sponsorship for like the next 17 and, you know,
16-17 years and some change multiple prosthesis and like,
cool, that's we're ready for it's what we do.
So he gets the gets the phone call the next morning and says
it's the the charging nurse and she goes, hey, everything went

(02:11:39):
great. Doctors were able to save the
leg by by about an hour, hour and a half.
And they, because we, we're, we had the ability to act as
quickly as we did. He said that the child was about
two to four hours from not surviving.
So he spent four more months. I think he went from the

(02:12:01):
pediatric ICU right to a hospital bed.
And I mean, this is probably several hundreds of thousands of
dollars, if if not more in in care that was provided.
And you know, you get this this young mother, like Merry
Christmas in the middle of summer, here's your kid, you're
going to get a long life. So there's that was kind of.

(02:12:23):
The fun. And you don't, you don't know
how many lives you saved becauseyou don't know how they would
have taken that death or how it would have affected their family
or that marriage. So multiple lives saved.
Oh yeah. There, there there was another
case where I think of rural Mexico, they have the, their
primary source of heat is, you know, the fireplace or like a

(02:12:43):
wood stove. And so the bassinet by the, by
the fireplace log ship, the log rolls up against the side of the
baby's body. So it's like a lot.
So a lot of lot of, you know, skin grafts and everything.
And so the, the struggle on thatone was dad was super, I think
mom was like 18 or 17 or something like that.

(02:13:07):
Biological dad was right about the same age.
And so they're like, we don't trust the Americans.
So anyway, like it was like an uncle or somebody comes in, goes
with the with the baby to to theStates and gets there and it's
like calls home and is like, Oh my God, dude, you need to see

(02:13:27):
like the facilities here are amazing.
They are doing wonderful things.Then it was like, all right, now
let's get mom dad up here to to do all that stuff.
So it's, it's really about, you know, and I mean, I, you take
like the floods in Washington state, here in Western
Washington, you know, it's greatto see despite our differences,

(02:13:48):
you see the humanity of like we genuinely want to help.
And when we have the ability to,to affect that change in a
positive way versus OK, this is forcibly mandated through
legislation that our money is taken away.
We have no control over how it'sspent and it's frivolously just
pissed away. You have people that are opening

(02:14:09):
up their homes or saying, I've got, I've got dry land where you
can put your trailers. Do you need to put a fifth wheel
here? Do you need, you know, horses
and cows and stuff like that? We we really want to come
together as a community and I think we need more of that.
And is, you know, kind of circleback to military service.

(02:14:29):
Like I remember 911, the original, you know, it was I was
19 years old right before I was going to turn 20.
I came back from a medical appointment.
This you know, I'd watched the second plane hit on live TV.
I went back to my unit, wrote mywill.
Here's live ammo. Go search the, you know, the
logistics center gate for, you know, search all the commercial

(02:14:52):
vehicles for bombs. Nope, you're not going to get a
bomb suit because it's not goingto do anything anyway.
You know, calling home, going, Idon't know when I'm coming home.
And it was a very, very scary time in America.
But then September 12th, you sawyellow ribbons everywhere,
American flags everywhere. You know, we were proud to be

(02:15:13):
Americans. And I was on a field deployment
when President Bush the, the second one, you know, basically
told Saddam's kids, you've got 24 or 48 hours to get out of
Iraq or like we're going to bombyou.
And just being like, yeah, we finally have like a straight,

(02:15:33):
like there is no, there's no fluff.
There's no ambiguity. It's, you know, in, in no
uncertain terms. But then it was also like, you
know, man, we're going to kick off a war here.
You know, hindsight, was it worth a 20 year battle And, and
trying to, you know, on 2 fronts.
Yeah, that's yeah. It's hard.

(02:15:56):
You know, but you know, again, it's it's mindset.
Everybody was like, oh, this is war mongering and Dick Cheney
owns Halliburton stock and the humanity and my dad's like and
and like, well, what are you going to do about it?
My dad's like, I'm gonna go out and buy me some Halliburton
stock. You know, you that that's just
kind of like how you roll with the punches.

(02:16:17):
You go look what's. Yeah.
How can I make things work for me?
Because you can. You can yell and scream and piss
and moan about stuff. Or.
You can find a solution and go, all right, here's the cards that
I'm going to that I'm dealt. How do I make the best hand even
if you have to bluff? But.

(02:16:37):
You know it's a it's. Quite a ride.
Yeah, I kind of look back going.You've always kind of had
service to other as like one of your highest values.
It it is something that that's important to me.
I'll I'll give you a snippet of Masonic oath aid and assist

(02:17:00):
applying me applying to me as such and I deeming them worthy.
So it's, it's really don't get scammed at the person who walks
up to the gas station who kind of is eyeing you, waiting for
you to make eye contact. And then they walk up and
they're like, Hey, man, how are you doing?
Oh, I, I just want to be really honest with you.
And I really hate to ask. And it's like, OK, then don't

(02:17:22):
because I know you're going to pull a scam.
You find, you see somebody who'sstruggling or you, you hear kind
of through your friend network. Hey, somebody needs help.
OK. What's the likelihood that my
effort, energy or money is goingto be either paid forward, Am I
going to see a return on investment?
Is it actually going to be utilized for what it needs to be

(02:17:45):
or somebody just going to slide right back into the the same
situation 10 minutes from now, you know, really have the
ability to do that analysis and invest in good people.
And even if it may not pay out right the second, that's one of
the, you know, I'll, I'll be candid.
Well, we never really get to seethe payout.

(02:18:06):
We don't always get to know, like, the depth of it.
It's, you know, you can't predict that.
It's like the the butterfly flaps its wings in Brazil and
yeah, yeah, that's the way across the world.
Yeah. You really don't know, like how
assisting someone is going to ripple out forward in so many
different directions. We can't.

(02:18:27):
Or keep track of all. That, yeah.
And, and, and that's, you know, have I thought about completely
unsubscribing from this wonderful world we live in all
the time? It's, you know, some days it's a
daily struggle. Sometimes it's like, yeah, it
doesn't cross my mind for quite some time.
But it was one thing that that Ikind of hold dear is in the end,

(02:18:49):
it's my choice. So if I'm here, it's because I
choose to be the and I think oneof the things that really kind
of drives me to continue 1 foot in front of the other is, yeah,
I may not be right at that like pinnacle of success just yet.
And I feel like I'm always just like right there, right there.

(02:19:10):
And I joke with my roommate. He's like, dude, we're, we're 7
numbers away from retirement because he he does the Lotto.
And but once I reach that spot or, or that level of success, I
want to be able to look back at every single person who showed
me kindness, who assisted me along the way and go, this is

(02:19:34):
your return on your investment. This is my way of demonstrating
that your time wasn't wasted. And you know, that's, that's my
my gift back to them. And then if I have the at the
same time, if I have the abilityto pay it forward, you know,
again, if it's as far as someones necessities require and
my ability permits, yeah, let's do it.

(02:19:55):
So those are just things I try to keep in the back of my head.
Shifting gears, because we've officially made it the longest
episode I've ever. Is there anything?
We should know about you moving forward in terms of projects
coming. What are you doing with hypnosis
out in the world now? What's coming up for maybe

(02:20:15):
Hypnosis Hero? What's coming up with Hypnosis
Hero? I think that's probably more of
a Sean Kostya question. He controls the the schedule.
I just kind of show up and, you know, try not to break anything.
No, we, we've got I think 2026 we're going to be kind of

(02:20:37):
experimenting with, with some new things.
I know that that one of our at least kind of one of my big
focuses is going to be working with Grant on kind of making
the, the elements of PHS 2027 inthe road leading up to that a
little bit more more timely and efficient.
We've had some lessons learned. Are you, are you kind of like

(02:21:02):
Dan Goyette and that you take like maybe 3 days off and then
you immediately start planning the next conference?
I have it on good authority thatwe will probably have 2027
booked and and at least date setbefore the before 2026's
conference is over. Yeah.

(02:21:23):
And, and that's just getting us,you know, the, the folks at Gold
Coast have been absolutely wonderful.
You know, when that, when there's been a, an issue with
scheduling or the calendar, you know, I get a message or a phone
call and it's just reaching out to them and saying, Hey, this is
what we're experiencing. They look at it on their end and
they go, oh, Yep, here's what's going on.

(02:21:44):
Let me fix that. Whether it's we need to add more
rooms that are that are available or not, or just
tweaking the website, whatever needs to be done, they've been
great. We definitely want to do a lot
more promotion. I think we've got some things
that are going to be value addedfor this year for for 2026's

(02:22:08):
conference. So reminder to everybody,
Christmas Eve is the deadline. If you go to bed without hotel
reservations and Santa doesn't bring them to you on Christmas
morning, you're you're paying full priced.
So go to the performing hypnosissummit.com, get your discounted
room rates. But yeah, we've got some great

(02:22:29):
stuff that's lined up as far as some of the extracurricular
activities. But going back to what what I've
got on the horizon. That's kind.
Of anybody doing what are you doing with hypnosis these days?
Are you do? Do you see people or are you
doing stage shows? I think the focus is going to be
working with some, some different organizations kind of

(02:22:54):
across the United States and, and Joe Beth and a couple of
other people to do really start raising some money, whether it's
for some of the Masonic organizations, different shrine
temples. I've got some emails out with
with boys and Girls Club and really just trying to make some

(02:23:16):
connections there because I wantto be able to help and, and do
something. And if I can have in in the
process, if I can make a living and, and pay for travel or, or
have that travel kind of pay foritself, you know, it's, it's a
good day. I do.
I do know one of my goals is to get over to to the UK have have

(02:23:38):
Grant kind of show me around outthere.
Yeah. What couple?
Of conferences out that way. Whether I make a guest
appearance on on one of his his shows, just as a, you know, kind
of a greetings from from the United States, you know, it's
I'm not not going to be working,but it's just kind of supporting

(02:24:03):
him through that and just reallykind of focusing on knocking a
lot of stuff off of the bucket list that that I want to do.
I spent, I spent my entire 20s and you know, a fair amount of
my 30s in, in litigation and in a courtroom.
So. Now that, you know, my kids are

(02:24:24):
both adults, really kind of focusing on on doing some of
those things that that I wanted to do and have have not had the
opportunity to. You had mentioned alienation at
one point, so it sounds like youwere able to restore the
relationships. Yes, yes and no.
So there was a a relocation. So it's kind of kind of odd the

(02:24:48):
X was allowed to relocate to Southern California, where I
originally grew up. There was a relationship she was
pursuing down there. So it was more of a physical
alienation rather than mental emotional I guess.
Little both so. Washington State decided to

(02:25:11):
retain exclusive jurisdiction because in in it's kind of
strange because when you allow somebody to move and relocate to
a place that they've never livedin, there's a certain time
period that you have to, you have to reside there to
establish residency and so. I guess, yeah, I guess all of

(02:25:33):
our stuff was done in Oregon andso it did stay in Oregon even
though we moved to Washington State.
Yeah. And, and someone's like in
Washington state, if you had lived here, I think it's like 6
months or nine months or whatever the, the requisite time
you could have taken those orders and said, hey, we're

(02:25:53):
filing in Washington state wherethey're going to have
jurisdiction for enforcement andeverything but.
We were nice. We didn't bother doing anything
of that. We weren't trying to be a pain
in anybody's ass. We were just trying to live.
Right. I mean, if it was like, hey,
everything's all done and over with, it's like, OK.
No, it was. It was not done and over with.
But but then again, with some people, some things never are

(02:26:16):
right. That's just the way they are.
Yeah, it's yeah. So, so Washington had
jurisdiction and then I think itwas about six months later, the
relationship between my ex and agentleman down there ended.
And then she just up and was like, I'm moving out to New
Mexico to where her, her parentshad moved to retire.

(02:26:40):
And so I'm like, wait a minute, this is problematic.
So I, I filed A contempt action up in Washington state and the
judge went, well, I'm not not happy about this, but I'm going
to allow it. And then awarded her like in
excess of like $8000 in attorneys fees and basically
said, Brian, you can't file any,any pleadings or any court

(02:27:03):
action until you pay this. So that that kind of by default
cuts me off. It violates my right to due
process, you know, the access tothe courts and everything.
And, you know, say there was, you know, any type of like
emergent thing that required court intervention there, there
was no safety valve per SE. So that was that was a really

(02:27:27):
dark time in my life where I waslike, you know, I'm a dad.
I'm fighting so hard to be a part of my children's lives, but
then just constantly being told them this piece of garbage.
So that was that was about a year for that to make its way
through the appellate court. So if you look up, if you do a
Google search of Bay versus Jensen, it's a December 2000, 8

(02:27:51):
case, Washington State Court of Appeals, there's kind of a
pretty detailed breakdown on howthat worked.
So finally it was the appeal came back in my favor.
Then there was, you know, now the kids are are in Washington
state. And then when you're dealing
with difficult people, you kind of have to sometimes you have to

(02:28:12):
argue with them to get you to fight to get them to do what you
want. So I wanted the kids to be in
Washington state because I wanted to come move back up
here. So what do I do?
I tell the court I want the kidsto be returned to Washington or
or to to California. So she argues, no, the
Washington's a good place. This that, the other all right,
so December 2008 comes I come upto Washington, see the kids go

(02:28:37):
to court. I think I'm up here for like a
month. And so she's already moved into
a place and that's hey, I want to go take the kids for
Christmas to go visit my parents.
All right, fine. She goes down to New Mexico, so
I think Las Cruces. And where's Fort Bliss, TX?

(02:28:58):
El Paso. Corpus.
Yeah, they're, they're probably about 45 minutes away from each
other. So all of a sudden.
Lived in Texas too. Yeah, it's hot down there.
Oh God I miss it. Yeah, so so she goes down for
for the Christmas holiday for a couple weeks, gets married, gets
pregnant, comes back, I go pick up the kids and then all of a

(02:29:20):
sudden she. Came back.
Well, she came back to go file everything going like, well, I
want to relocate with the kids now to, to Texas.
And I'm just sitting there going, Oh my God.
So, you know, fortunately one ofthe judges was like, all right,
we're going to inject some stability because at that time,
at that point in time, my son was on, was on his, I think

(02:29:44):
third elementary school in threedifferent States and he didn't
finish kindergarten. My goodness.
We moved, we moved quite a bit, but mostly because the toxicity
was a lot. And then my step kiddo had
trauma that was not diagnosed because of the isms and you

(02:30:05):
know, all of those diagnosis. It's kind of hard to catch all
of the rest when there's trauma.But that kid was traumatized
before too. And then we spent the whole rest
of his life trying to work through and reeling from it.
And so I think there were times when she wanted to say we were
alienating her. And it's like, no, we're trying
to give him a chance at life because you can't be knocking on

(02:30:26):
windows and doors in the middle of the night, calling him to,
you know, let you in. Yeah.
So who knows what intent in mindso.
So I never forget that, that we're standing in the courtroom
and the judge is going through the paperwork and like she's
making her argument or like, well, here it is.
Like, you know, 4 weeks ago she was making the argument in her

(02:30:46):
own writing, sworn under penaltyof perjury.
Washington is the best place stable.
And they've been here for, you know, almost a year.
And, you know, so the judge goes, OK, I'm going to, you
know, he's making his ruling. Like we're going to have some
stability and you know the kids are going to remain here.

(02:31:09):
And all of a sudden I hear the slam on the table and my ex-wife
slams her her hand down and she's like she looks at the
judge and she's like, well we need to figure this out right
now because I'm leaving tomorrow.
My ears popped because of the collective gasp of everybody
going and the air pressure dropping.
And I'm looking at my attorney and she just like holds your

(02:31:31):
hand up and is just. Like, let it play.
Just let it play out. Let it.
Yep, give her just enough rope. That's what our attorney used to
say. Let her have the.
Rope. So the judge looks at her and is
like, well, I'm not saying that you are not able to move, but if
you move, you're going to give custody to dad and whatnot.

(02:31:53):
So she ends up staying with a friend so she doesn't move.
And then one day it was just like, hey, are you going to come
pick up the kids on a Sunday night?
You run in late in traffic. I'm in Arizona on my way to
driving to New Mexico or to El Paso.
Like, the kids have school tomorrow.
So she abandoned them. Then she comes back, I think

(02:32:18):
does some somehow. Yeah.
She was back here for a little bit.
Well, now she's got child, child#3 for her, but child number one
with her and new husband, child #2 for them on the way.
He's down in, in Texas. And I'm sure they were having
that conversation of like, look,I want to be with my kids, you

(02:32:40):
know, understandably like a father would.
So she's kind of caught in the middle.
And so she comes back. I remember one day, she, it was
weekend. She, it was like, hey, we're
gonna, I'm moving back down to, to Texas and this is what we're
doing. And so the kids were kind of
upset. And so it's just like, you know,
because they miss mom. And I'm kind of like, well, we
were on a like a week on week off.

(02:33:00):
It was kind of working and all right now we're going to do a
long distance thing. So it's it is what it is.
So she. How old were they at the time,
roughly? I.
Want to see My son was like 3rd,3rd or 4th grade.
My daughter was probably first grade or something like that, so
pretty young. And I remember, yeah, I remember

(02:33:21):
the weekend they were it was like a Saturday morning.
She drives up by the house and she's like, hey, I want to talk
to you. So she's trying to play, let's
make a deal. She goes, I will pay you
whatever child support you want if you let our daughter go with
me. And my son's walking up from his

(02:33:41):
friend's house because he saw his mom drive into the
neighborhoods. Well, I get to see mom before
she leaves. He's walking up and he overhears
this because he's walking up behind her and I can see him.
So what about what about our son?
And she's like, oh, well, he canjust stay here with you and come
down and visit. And they said, well, they're
kind of a package deal. And they said, how does that

(02:34:04):
make sense that, you know, our daughter seems to be more
important. And she's like, oh, well, you
know, she's more bonded, you know, and she comes up with some
excuse. And I said, why don't you make
that make sense to our son who'sstanding behind you?
And she turns around, like her face kind of drops.
And she's like, oh, hey. And I just watched my son's

(02:34:26):
like, whole body just deflated. He turns around like he was just
so disgusted. And so he ended up going inside
and like he just watching my sonjust absolutely break.
Like, why doesn't my mom want me?
And it was, you know, so then anyways, they finally get like a

(02:34:47):
hardship transfer and they get up to Washington and, you know,
I'm like, look, let's do 5050 again.
You want to go and commute from Fort Lewis all the way up
through Seattle? And you think that fine, I'm not
going to fight you on this. And so then it just turned into
different different types of thethe warfare, you know, oh, we

(02:35:07):
have the kids, a cell phone. Then all of a sudden photos,
picture pictures of the inside of my house that she's never set
foot and start showing up in court plea.
Yeah, see, that's where the Armyreally saved our lives because
my husband got custody pretty early on just with things that

(02:35:27):
had happened. It was one hell of a fight.
I'm pretty convinced that had I not been there he wouldn't have
won and that really sucks. Just to see how stacked it is
against men having their children is is brutal.
My my Court of Appeals was 4550 grand just in that one year.
And then I think, I think total we were this is this is like

(02:35:53):
2005 to probably 2013 we were we.
Were in court the same the same years.
Well, I'm talking about just in that, in that, in that period of
time, yeah, we, we were probably, I think my dad and I,
you know, calculated everything up and it was we had drained my

(02:36:14):
entire money market account, stock portfolio, everything that
my he and my grandmother had, you know, saved, you know, my
entire life. And I think we were into it
about, I think all in total we were into it about 200,000.
Wow. And wasn't that extensive for

(02:36:35):
us, thankfully. Yeah, it was.
But then after once once you gettherapist and guardian ad items
and all these. All of these people who won't
give the proper opinion and be honest about what they're seeing
on top of that shit. Did you have that experience
too? Where they?
They'll play people back and forth.
Yeah, it's brutal. It's just brutal.

(02:36:57):
If you can keep the the parents fighting, then you can go back
to the court and go, well, do you see how volatile this case
is? And somebody you know,
everything is, it's about the children.
You know, you mismanage your, your school, your school
district's budget or, you know, whatever the case may be, it's

(02:37:18):
well, we completely ignored, youknow, maintenance on a school.
We've blown our budget. We've given ourselves raises and
everything. We, we need to increase taxes.
We need another bond levy. We need all these things, but
it's for the children. Yeah, we have.
And, and it's like, no, you yeah, we're we're not the

(02:37:40):
bottomless bank account, but yeah, it was just a big thing.
And then finally. Well, I ask because alienation
is one of the that's trauma inducing as well.
It's incredibly painful. I've got a pretty big
demographic of my clients who experienced that, and I've had
personal experience with it, too.

(02:38:01):
Yeah. So you know, the odd times that
my spouse's ex would have our kiddo, she would play games, you
know, she would try to alienate him, turn him against us, create
rage in him. And and.
We'd come home to a time bomb, you know?
Yeah, and, and to be, you know, to be completely fair, you know,

(02:38:24):
in, in my, when I was married, when I was young, like I did not
say no enough. I didn't stand up for myself
enough. You know, the self esteem wasn't
there. And and when it came to the
kids, it wasn't that my ex, likeshe kept a clean house, she
cooked food. She was, you know, on top of

(02:38:45):
medical appointments and things like that, where the abusive
side side would come in is like,for example, she'd get my
daughter worked up going to be so.
Long I'm going to miss you so. Much and I'm like I've got this
catatonic child that is just inconsolable and then it's like
we get her home OK here's Australian shepherd puppy dogs
and once we were able to get hersnapped out of it it was like

(02:39:07):
completely different child and then every time and then when
and there's a transition on bothsides and that's the thing that
sucks you know there's the before the drop off and then
after the pickup and then. When when their mom or their
stepdad would come by to, you know, pick them up.
I I was like a like an airborne jump master like.
You know, kids would like lookout the window.
Hey, Mom's here. Whoever's here.

(02:39:29):
And it's like, all right, cool. You know, quick.
Like JMPI, like, all right, Backpacks, books, toys, all your
stuff that you need. OK, Look you over.
Cool coats. Ready.
Set. Give dad hugs.
Be good for mom, you know, see you in a week.
Ready, set. Go.
Spot on the butt right out the door.
And there was number. What is Dad gonna do because I I

(02:39:51):
remember being a kid going like well, and this mom and no
kidneys that it. Was like we we go back and
forth. Every, you know, 3 or 4 days.
Yeah. And they live 20 minutes apart
and, and it's kind of interesting.
Like my I? Remember when my brother
graduated high school and my, you know, I'm in my dress
uniform, my mom comes running upto my dad and my stepmom and she

(02:40:12):
kind of like grabs my dad's arm and she's like, we did it.
My dad's kind of like, forgive my confusion.
Like we did what she's like, we got both kids through high
school, They're graduated and mydad goes, we didn't do anything.
The boys did the work of yeah and and it was like.
You know they had. Their own turmoil with divorce

(02:40:35):
and custody battle and. And everything like that.
So yeah, my a product. Of.
You know my own things there where it's like, all right,
don't rock the boat, you know, to my detriment.
It was it was really funny. It was like my mom wanted to be
my dad's like drinking like my like best friend now it was cool
when. I had.

(02:40:55):
Children that it was, hey, I canpop them down there for a couple
of weeks and they can equally share time, be civil and be
adults because yay grandchildren.
So not knocking them on that. It was just I, you know, when,
when my parents got divorced, itwas the, you know, the, the
early to mid 80s, you know, the family law court system had just

(02:41:17):
kind of come into effect. And you know it, I went from me
and one other girl in my class of 30 or 35 had, you know,
divorced parents to now, if yourparents aren't divorced, like
you're the minority and it's sadat how, you know, 30 years,
it's, you know, 30 or 40 years. It shifted that, that bad.

(02:41:38):
But, you know, it's a, you know,I, I finally, you know, the,
the, the hardest question I had,I knew about the military
trauma, but I didn't know about those other levels of it.
So I've learned a lot about you today.
Yeah, it was. We have so.
Much in common. It's crazy now the it's I think
the the toughest. Question I ever had.

(02:42:00):
Had my my kids. Answer or ask me.
Was why? Does the fighting have to be the
way that it is? And the only thing I could
really. Tell them was like, look, mom
thinks what she's doing is right.
I think what I'm doing is right.We have a difference of opinion.
But you know, in the end, we both.
Love you and this. Is kind of a a grown up thing.

(02:42:22):
And admittedly that was a cop out answer.
I mean, it was it was an honest and a fair one, but it would
have been so much easier to be like, why is mommy no longer
with us? You know, mommy had cancer.
Mommy got a car accident, you know, struck by lightning act of
God. At least there's an explanation
where they can go, OK, I'm at anage where that makes sense.

(02:42:45):
The math Maths and we process and we begin to move on and.
I'm sure the converse. Is true that you know if my if
my ex was asked the same thing but you know when when children
are used to punish the other parent it's.

(02:43:05):
You know the. The.
I can say this with. Impunity.
The kids are the ones that suffer in silence.
They're destroyed. Utterly and fully and completely
destroyed, you know, parenting investigators, Casa Guardian, AD
like whatever you want to call them, they're.
There for the money because theyget paid as soon as.
As soon as the money runs out, all right, well, I'm going to

(02:43:27):
move on to the next one. You know, children are a
commodity and it it's, it's really unfortunate.
So I'm hoping that, you know, kind of the next generation, you
know, do we get to break the cycle?
Do we get to, you know, empower people to to, to think for
themselves, to make good choices?
Think critically, ask the uncomfortable?

(02:43:48):
Questions. And and not just go along just
because they're they're scared. Precisely.
Yeah. But yeah, God, we've been.
You're pretty easy to talk to. I'm like, I was thinking about
this. So yeah.
While I was in the shower cleaning up and shaving my face
thinking I'm going to go be on camera.

(02:44:10):
On Yeah and everything. Like that I was thinking to
myself, I'm like, oh God, we're,I don't know what we're going to
talk about. I'm like.
Yeah, she's like Barbara. Walters.
Me and like, give me a cry and you know I'll be a sobbing man
on this. Podcast that's not.
Usually my fault to be fair, although I I am curious.
And I. Do like to?

(02:44:31):
Know how people went through things.
No, because, you know, like thatwhole thing with the legal
system and my spouse then going active duty in US.
Oh yeah. You know, improving things for.
Our family, there were so many layers in there that I didn't
realize were traumatic and like deeply freaking traumatic, you
know, like it didn't register until way after the fact.

(02:44:55):
So, so folk like if you, if you've ever listened to so Sean
Ryan's podcast. When he interviewed DJ Shipley,
he talked about, yes, I did watch that field, Team Six
operator. Yeah, yeah, I did.
So he talks about all the stuff that he was going through and
like. You know.

(02:45:16):
Like getting electrocuted and all the all the the like
suicidal ideation and the the the.
Addiction. To pills and stuff like that,
all the different ways he was trying to cope.
And it's like on the surface, anybody would be telling him and
his wife to be like get divorced.
And they were strong enough to, to, to put in the hard work and

(02:45:41):
really, you know. Work things out.
I I think they're probably both better off for it and you know,
these guys will tell you they'relike, yeah, you know, you see
that my first wife or whatever it.
Just I didn't have. The tools in the toolbox to cope
and you know, so I try to give them some grace, but to anybody
who's listening, if, if you're in a relationship that's not

(02:46:04):
healthy, if it's toxic, if it's to your detriment, like I'm not
going to tell you to get out. I'm going to tell you to make a
choice that's best for you. If, if they're, if you know,
there's and really understand the difference between, OK,
we've got some hard work to do and we've got an uphill climb.
If you guys are both climbing and you're both fighting the
fight together, great. But if someone's going to look

(02:46:27):
at you and go, why should I cut away?
Pull your reserve, you know, andit's not that you have to go
screw the other person over, butyou need to, to begin to, to
make that transition. And if you are somebody that is
going through a divorce or any type of child custody, you know,
whether you you were not marriedand had children together, the

(02:46:50):
best piece of advice that I could give to somebody is you
are mom, they are dad or you aredad, they are mom.
Both parents love child and you need to take them.
Do everything in your power to take the emotion out of it.
Take that step back, talk. To your attorneys.
Whoever you're you know, you look at is like advisors and for

(02:47:12):
guidance, let them have kind of have a objective, try to look at
it from an objective lens as possible and not so much do
what's best for the kids. But it's it's take that emotion
out of it and really do what's right.
And sometimes that is to stand up for yourself and fight to dig

(02:47:34):
your heels in. To go no, I'm not going.
To do that but the other thing is understand a lot that should
be mentioned like if you're dealing with someone who's on
personality disorder or they're.Just not a healthy functioning
person with an extreme to get the right help is really
important. If you have an attorney that

(02:47:54):
doesn't understand narcissistic abuse and you're about to go to
court with a narcissist, you arein for one hell of a ride.
And the legal system is not madefor that.
It is absolutely not made for that.
So finding the right supports people who know and it's the
same thing from pair battles andcounselors take your battles
too. Absolutely.

(02:48:14):
You're when you go in, when you go in for a hearing, you're
going to have. You know.
A mountain of paperwork. That you've submitted you're.
Probably going to. Get 5 minutes aside to make your
point and counterpoint. And then?
The person who filed the motion might get a couple few minutes
for, you know, quick rebuttal and then judge or commissioner,

(02:48:35):
whoever is presiding may ask some clarifying questions.
And the reality is, is that if you and the other side cannot
make a decision. And reach some type of
resolution. Somebody who's wearing a black
robe is going to do it for you. That's right.
And they really? Don't care about the micro.

(02:48:56):
They're looking at the macro. Yeah.
And I mean, I could do another hour on just the family law
stuff alone. But I'm not going to subject
myself to it. It is a huge.
It was just, it was the worst thing I think our attorney
understood. Even.
Though we didn't have the words at that point to say, hey, I
think this person is having a variety of traits that belong in

(02:49:20):
the TSM. You know, even though we we
couldn't verbalize it in that way, when we would describe to
him the amount of lack of a better word fuckery that was
happening, I think he had personal experience and he knew
how to navigate it. And we lucked out and he was
someone we got from Jag because,again, we were in poverty, so we
we couldn't have just afforded anybody on retainer.

(02:49:42):
He saved us. He really was our saving grace.
Yeah. I don't know if you know him
because you're close, but he wasin Oregon and is is he always
went by Andy. I'm trying to remember his last
name. It's escaping me.
No. You.
Can always send me. A message with with that, but
it's a it. I'm not one to advocate.

(02:50:03):
Just carte blanche, like stepping away from being a
parent. But if?
If no, we. Couldn't.
It wasn't safe for our kiddo forus to do that.
Had we done that, he wouldn't have had a chance at life.
I mean. Already he lost out on a lot of
good chances at a healthy life. But in, in, in, in my case, what

(02:50:24):
I was running up against is I had I had a judicial system.
In two separate jurisdictions that refuse to hold.
My ex accountable. For her actions, I hate to say
it, but it. Is rampant.
With women getting away with things like it was awful to sit

(02:50:44):
and see it. And then all of.
A sudden a wild accusation gets made with with with no evidence
and then. You know, I'm I'm still
convinced that money changed hands behind the scenes.
And if I had the, if I had the resources, you know, if it was
like like if I was Iron Man and I had the, the financial.

(02:51:06):
Resources and the. Technology and everything and
you know, for lack of a better term, that the FU money I.
I would be putting a lot of. State workers like behind, you
know, in jail, you know, the follow the money, the
corruption, the stuff that's there.
And then I finally just had to go have that conversation with
myself going you're fighting a losing battle.

(02:51:27):
You're throwing good money afterbad.
The the things that are in placewith the restrictions and stuff
that are there, it's designed tobleed you dry.
So in the end, if you do prevailout of this whole thing, it's
going to cost you your house. It's going to cost you
everything that you have. And then when you win, it's
going to be well, now you don't have a place to live.

(02:51:49):
So by default you lose and now someone watched you just dwindle
it all the way and and really having to.
To take that. Step back going, all right, I, I
had custody of the kids for likeI was a custodial parent for 6
1/2 years. When it came time to, you know,

(02:52:11):
turn over those reins and and have their stepfather adopt, I
was looking at things from a variety of of standpoints,
liability, I, you know, I'm ableto to kind of prove, you know,
you can't. Really prove a.
Negative, but when there was wasnothing that was there that

(02:52:33):
anybody. Could act on.
And then I saw the writing on the wall going, well, we've got
this, the juvenile court thing for a child dependency.
And then, well, we're willing todismiss this only, but we need
the, we need juvenile court to allow mom leave to go to family
court, get adequate cause to modify the parenting plan.

(02:52:55):
And then once the once family court allows her to take the
kids to Hawaii where they had relocated to at the time, once
that happens, we will dismiss it.
And so I raised the argument andI said, well, if if you guys
dismiss the dependency. Action.
Because you guys have nothing the adequate 'cause that you're

(02:53:17):
claiming exist to justify changing the parenting plan,
that goes away, which means we revert.
Back to the final parenting. Plan.
You guys have looked into this. There's no justification.
I win. And all of a sudden it was like
rut row, you know, we had five attorneys in there and going,

(02:53:38):
OK, quick scramble, we've got it, how do we resolve this?
And I just went, you guys are stupid.
This is so. The system is so.
Broken and by that time my son was coming up on 14 and I was
like, all right, we're we're going to just run out the clock.
We're going to take a step back.And you know, it was it was one
of those things where I was like, Hey, if I if I step away,

(02:54:02):
give my ex-wife all the control that she wants.
I just want to be a part of the kilt the kids lives.
And she was like, Nope, I'm not having that.
So she got the kids to Hawaii, change phone numbers, changed
addresses and all I had was a ane-mail address.
So each holiday, each birthday, each everything.
It was like emails going I'm available.

(02:54:24):
I would like to talk to the kidsif you know, my door is open.
And so that was, you know, a big, a big source of contention.
And then you've got a number of years where you know the the
well gets poisoned. So you know.
You're you're kind of waiting for the kids to kind of get
curious. So you know, we're it's it's

(02:54:47):
something that I'm working on. You know, it's one of those
definitely, you know, handle with kid gloves proceed with
caution type of a thing at this.At.
This moment we're still relatively minimal, no contact,
but then again we had a lot of mental health issues in.
Terms of our kiddo, he just, he was on the spectrum.
There was trauma, there was thing after thing every ODD you

(02:55:08):
could imagine he was getting diagnosed with.
And so come 2019, he'd already had a couple of residential
stays in psychiatric, you know, getting top line therapy best we
could. And it just wasn't working
because every time he'd have visitation, be gone for a summer
or something, so much damage would be done and there was just

(02:55:30):
no coming back. And so finally, 20/19, he
actually tried to hurt us both. And that was kind of his intent.
He'd had that plan, told his therapist, got that ball.
This is opposing party or the child?
No, my stepson. OK, yeah, yeah.
At that time, he was kicking. Around 14, so hormones had

(02:55:50):
started to set in on. Top of everything else.
And it's kind of that like. Natural selection thing where
you know, and this was this all stemmed you know my son was was
at. That age where it's like we want
to go buck up to Dad, we're gonna, you know, it's like dogs.
They're gonna go challenge authority.
They're gonna try to establish some type of dominance.
And they. No, he was compositional

(02:56:12):
defiant. He was oppositional defiant.
He was. He'd always been that way.
It wasn't. Oh, sure.
Hormones. Just amplified it, but then he
would have so much rage. But you know, he just got out a
residential right before we moved here to Ohio and it had
done well. We sent him to San Marcos.
They were wonderful. Treatment was effective, was

(02:56:34):
helpful, and then we've been here and then you had Christmas
going like what? What what's the outlet for kids
these days to, you know, let that rage loose?
You know, we used to go and we used.
To go roll around. In the dirt and fight.
And run around the canyons playing army and and sports and,
you know, hockey, you can, you can hit one another and knock

(02:56:55):
each other down and, but he didn't even have that because, I
mean, he was on the spectrum andhe really had a hard time making
friends like that was so difficult for.
Him and. And now what are kids doing?
They're staring at a screen. Yeah, yeah.
You know, just they're staring at a screen.
Playing games that just normalize.

(02:57:16):
Violence, and it's. Almost a form of entertainment
and we didn't we didn't allow that and that was the problem,
right. So, you know, mom was more of
the Disneyland mom kind of situation she.
Didn't really have to be a full on effect parent.
We did that. We gave the structure, we gave
the routines Fun at a whole whenyou when, like in a video game,

(02:57:39):
your, your character, your avatar dies when you respond.
In a video game, hey, I shot my friend that I'm playing against,
you know, his, my character shoots his character in the
face. Ha, ha, ha.
I threw a hand grenade and and it's almost like that's their
version of, you know, the, the Looney Tunes, Wiley Coyote.
We sheltered him. We sheltered him so he didn't

(02:58:02):
have access to that with us, butthen he would go home, you know,
to Christmas vacation. I was speaking kind of and then
he would in general with with with kids today is that yeah,
they don't understand the gravity of.
When? You tell.
Us when you get in an argument when it's like, OK, we're kind
of shit talking back and forth to now.

(02:58:23):
I'm making threats. Of physical violence and how
somebody's going to respond. And then somebody goes, well,
I've got to play the one up gamethere.
What's lost is 2 kids go out andDuke it out, settle their
differences, work it out of their system.
And then it's kind of like, all right, well, there's at least
some respect for each other. You know, you shake hands when
you're done. Like, there's that's tough

(02:58:48):
because like, yeah, society is different.
But he didn't have a skill set to navigate life.
In that way to begin with. Oh yeah.
So it's just a totally differentball of wax at the end of the
day. Yeah, Yeah.
No, So we haven't and. You know when we sent him.
During COVID of all time, yeah, he couldn't he couldn't come

(02:59:09):
home because he was threatening our lives.
And then he he couldn't go anywhere because a lot of the
residential. Places.
Weren't taking people because ofCOVID.
So he was actually stuck in the Children's Hospital in Cleveland
for over a month. Yeah.
It was ridiculous. Schools these days, you know the
yeah, a friend of mine's a police officer and he says the

(02:59:30):
the schools that his kids go to if.
Kids start squabbling and tussling and fighting.
The school staff were kind of like to lock arms and like form
a what they call a protective barrier, which means we just
created our own human Octagon and they are forbidden from
intervening even if one child islike absolutely stomping another

(02:59:53):
kids headed Oh my godness. And I'm like, there's nobody to
just snatch a kid up or both kids and go, you know, you shake
him and you're like you. Know not like shaking baby.
Syndrome. But it's like you.
What are you saying here, Brian?You get their attention.
And it's like, this is not OK. Yeah.
And you know, you're gonna go doyour detention.
You're gonna go. Whatever it is.

(03:00:13):
You're gonna go deal with mom and dad and you know dad's belt.
Make clear belt loops and your butt might get warm, but but
there's, there was, there's actual, you know, consequences.
And now kids walk around school and go, you know, they're
they're using racial slurs with,with teachers.
They're telling them like, yeah,you can't touch me.
And they're getting, you know, super brazen and brave.

(03:00:35):
And, you know, now it's a safetyissue for the school staff.
It is and other students. Absolutely, absolutely it is.
So anyway, towards the end of that that residential stay, he
ended up going to Arkansas we. Didn't get anything resolved.
He wasn't complying with therapy.
He wasn't commutative. I mean, I was at a point where
it's like, you know what, I raised him.

(03:00:56):
You can age 2 to 14, I'm kind ofdone.
You can only be coming back. You can only help the willing
and that's kind of where going way.
Back that's. The point of, you know, like I
looked at my husband. I said listen, I left my first.
Marriage because it came down toam I going to love him or am I
going to love me? I chose.
Me, I'm not going to start making a difference choice here.

(03:01:16):
I said, you know, it's been 12 years and now you're putting
I've kind of given my all mom wants in there.
If he's enough, if he's, you know, if he's strong and tough
and he can hurt us. He can.
Defend himself. I feel I give up.
But we did it. Consciously, in that we knew
what she would do and so we actually said to him in therapy,
we are. Not going to.

(03:01:36):
Call you. We're not going to contact you.
You want to reach out? You're willing to take
accountability for yourself. OK, Yeah, we'll come to that.
Bridge. Never happened yeah so now he's
you know he was born and it got I think O 6 so he's coming up to
what 2021 somewhere around thereand we're still no contact I.
Don't anticipate life's. Going to get real for him fast.

(03:01:59):
Well, she's not the healthiest, so we always questioned about
what happens after she passes. Is he going to, you know,
wonder? About things or maybe.
Remember that he had people thatloved him in a healthy way.
Yeah, either way, you know, so there's some stuff to look at,
but we never did rekindle any ofit.
And I'm actually kind of at peace with it myself.

(03:02:20):
And sometimes too, and sometimesthat's OK because, you know, at
least with, like with my marriage, I, I got to the point.
Where I was like. I'll give you $1000 in cash if
you'll just schedule a marriage counseling appointment.
And it was like, well, why should I?
And I just went, all right, I, Ihave left everything out on the

(03:02:40):
field. I can do no more there.
There's I, I don't have any, I don't have any question in my
mind of like, well, what if I had done something different?
I just was like, you know, she proved every bit of I was just a
source. I was a means to an end.
Yeah. And lesson learned when you're
dealing with an adult. We were dealing with a child

(03:03:01):
abuse coming from a child. And then it's a totally
different. Dynamic and it's like, holy
shit, am I crazy? Different, different dynamic.
But I mean, if you break it downsimply you went above and
beyond. There is.
I mean, if I ask you this, we tried our best.
Yeah, was there. Any other option that you could

(03:03:21):
have reasonably? You know.
Exercised. And if the answer is no, it's
like then you can only help those who want to be helped, and
you can only have a relationshipwith those people who, who want
to have a healthy, respectful relationship with you.
I was lucky because at that point I had closure.
I had acceptance, you know, I, Ihad accountability and that was

(03:03:45):
enough for me. But there are some people who go
through parental alienation, andthey don't have any of those
things. And the trauma that creates the
mess that creates the inner turmoil is just a lot.
And that is enough. That's the cause.
The first lady that I dated, thefirst lady that I dated after
starting the divorce and everything, Yeah.
I was like, what do you mean you?

(03:04:07):
Like being around me, it was like, hey, I'm looking forward
to seeing you. And it was that was that was
foreign to me. I remember dating my husband and
before we were physically in the.
Same space, I said. I can't wait.
To hold your hand, he just like hold my.
Hand Why? Why would you?
Yeah. And it was like, hey, I'm sorry,
I'm, I'm, I'm running a little bit late or, you know, I got off

(03:04:29):
work late or something like that.
And it was like, OK. Cool, I'll see you when you get
here. There was no, no hysterics.
No. What do you mean you're second?
You're probably out, you know, banging your girlfriend or
whatever. I'm like, oh, I'm, I'm. 5
minutes late because I. Got stuck in a couple of traffic
lights on the way home. What do you you know, So it it
it's just that type of so you had the push pull.

(03:04:51):
Love you. I hate you.
Don't leave me. Oh God, yeah.
Style of. Yeah, us too to get out.
All right. Fine.
It's like, shove me out of the way, throw herself across the
door. Why?
Are you in such a hurry to? Leave and I'm like, I don't
possess. You can't it's it's possess the
social crazy to to deal with this no win crazy train.
That is all it is. And so when people ask why do I

(03:05:13):
have the peacefulness? How do is that I make people
feel so safe so. Comfortable it's because I've
had to develop resilience and emotional regulation like you
can't even dream of. I didn't get here on sunshine
and rainbows, is what I tell my client.
Remember my dad telling me? I think though my dad was
telling me. He goes, son, I want you to

(03:05:34):
just. Repeat what you just said.
Or let me share with you what? I just heard you say and I want.
You to kind of soak this. In and and really give some
thought about the status of whatyour marriage is in.
I just heard you tell me that you are actively trying to

(03:05:55):
deploy to the two way rifle range hoping that you don't get
the enemy marksmanship award andso.
So that you. Don't have to deal with your
ex-wife. When I met my husband, that's
where he was at and yeah, I was like, yeah.

(03:06:16):
I'm like that's when it. All made sense and like we we,
we've got to do something. But it was, yeah.
You know, they're actually his. His hope was that he would come
home in a body bag and they would be cared for and he
wouldn't have to worry. Yeah, I.
I had all my life insurance stuff.

(03:06:37):
My my father was the beneficiary.
You know, because even. When we had children, it was.
OK, he, he's going to have the wherewithal to put things in
place and, and set up the, the, the financial vehicles that will
be there for the children to protect them from their, their

(03:06:58):
mom from just draining everything.
So, but yeah, but no, I'm looking.
At the time. I'm like, God, we've been 3 1/2
hours. You've been doing the marathon.
You're a trooper. So we are made of tough shit.
Brian Bay. Well, no.
I enjoyed getting to know you, hearing the different layers,

(03:07:19):
and I think you. Know it's so relevant because
there's so many people going through it.
Just like you and. I did.
And they don't know. They don't know what they're
going through. They don't know what they need.
They just know that they're exhausted.
They're tired. It's a lot.
Yeah. You're, you're you never know
that you're. You could be 1 phone call away.
Well, your audio cut. Out can you?

(03:07:43):
Still hear me? Still here?
OK, There you go. Yeah.
Yeah. No, you're.
You never know if you're just a,you could be the next phone call
away from the solution to your problems.
It's yeah, you know. And and.
When in doubt, you know, just keep in mind that that forward

(03:08:05):
progress, no matter how small. Is still.
Forward progress, keep moving inthe right direction.
And sometimes, you know, keep inmind that sometimes if you're
walking across a minefield or a cow pasture, sometimes moving
laterally from side to side. Is a.
Strategic move. All right, So one of the best

(03:08:26):
things I learned from World of Warcraft Strife.
Yeah. Fire, superiority and lay.
Down Suppressive. Fire, you know, move and
communicate so. Well, thank you for being
incredibly. Generous with your your time,
your story, your experience. I know that people are gonna
find that. Invaluable.
Yeah. We'll, we'll, we'll do this

(03:08:47):
again and we'll, you know, we'lltalk about more, you know, fun
and enjoyable stuff. Willie, I've got I've got a
yellow lab here that's dancing. Retired drug dog.
That's going like. Uncle Brian, you missed
breakfast cuz you slept in so it's.

(03:09:07):
I've been waiting. Patiently at your feet and.
That time is over and my my tummy clock is telling us that
there there's things to do now because they know that's dad's
duty. Yeah, he's.
Yeah, he's just a big goofball. So.
Well, yeah. Well, well, well, next time
we'll make sure that. Cameras and stuff work.

(03:09:28):
I'll. That would be great, yeah.
How to OK, so I'm going to let the audience know.
Thank you for joining us. But Brian, don't go anywhere.
Just yet. OK, soulful seekers, stay happy.
Stay healthy, stay well, but most of all, stay inspired.
We'll catch you on the next one and I will put info for Brian
Bay down in the description and comments.

(03:09:49):
Thanks for sitting it out with us.
We'll see you in the new year. All right, hold on.

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