July 5, 2022 • 19 mins
Ever notice how the NPR ads flow so seamlessly with the programming? It's on purpose and it's thanks to NPM. National Public Media works hard to make every ad relatable, intentional, and engaging.
We kick off season Five of the Sound In Marketing Podcast with an interview about corporate sponsorship advertising. My guests were Sara Barbour and Shannon Boerner of NPM.
For more on what NPM is doing check out www.nationalpublicmedia.org for more information.
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For more on sound in marketing, sign up for the Sound In Marketing Newsletter http://eepurl.com/gDxl6b. For further inquiries, email Jeanna at mailto:jeanna@dreamrproductions.com
The Sound In Marketing Podcast is produced by Dreamr Productions and hosted, written, and edited by Jeanna Isham. It is available on all the major podcast channels here https://pod.link/1467112373.
Let’s make this world of sound more intriguing, more unique, and more on brand.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeannaisham/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Welcome to the Sound in Marketing podcast.
Today's guests are Sara Barbour and Shannon Boerner
from npm National Public Media.
I'm your host, Jeanna Isham, ownerand founder of Dreamr Productions
and Sound in Marketing Learning.
I create, consult and educate
brands and individualson the power of sound in marketing.
(00:26):
Looking to create branded soundor need a sound strategist?
Head on over to www.DreamrProductions.comand let's chat.
That's www.DreamrProductions.com
www.DreamrProductions.com
Want to learn more about soundin marketing these days?
Go to www.SoundInMarketing.com.
There's courses and resourcesgalore for season five.
I'm excited to bring you morefrom the brands and companies actually
(00:49):
producing and implementing Mindful Sound.
This either means official Sonic branding,sound
and or music tied to brand identity,or simply companies
that are taking their use of soundand music more seriously.
A lot of cool angles and creativityin store this season, so stay tuned.
Now onto the show.
(01:09):
Today we'll be discussing podcastand digital sponsorship
on NPR programing with my guests Sara Barbour and Shannon Boerner.
Shannon Boerner is the supervising producerat NPM creative,
the in-house creative teamthat provides research, strategy,
design, creative and audioproduction services to NPR sponsors.
(01:31):
Shannon is an audio producerand storyteller with previous experience
working on both editorialand branded content at Fast Company
and Slate, and has a rich historyin the audio industry.
First, getting their start in programingand editing as a teen
in their role at NPM creative.
Shannon leads audio productionand innovation for custom products.
(01:52):
They are a graduate of Lewisand Clark College with a Bachelor's
of Arts in Rhetoric and Media Studies.
Sara Barbour is the senior productionmanager for NPM creative, where she works
closely with the designers,audio producers, and NPR sponsors
to help bring brand storiesto life on NPR's digital platforms.
Prior to joining the team in 2018,she worked as a creative producer
(02:16):
at column five media and project managerat Conservation International.
She loves the intersectionof storytelling and project management
and is a lifelong NPR fan.
Welcome to the show, Sara and Shannon.
Thank you for having us. Great to be here.
So I'm really excited
to have you guys on here because as I wassaying, off recording, I did not realize
(02:37):
that there was a separate intersectionbetween NPR and NPM.
You are a different affiliate,and I would love it
if we could kind of just unpack thata little bit.
Can you explain how you work with and workaside from NPR?
So the team that Shannon and I are a partof, NPM creative
is part of National Public Media,the corporate sponsorship arm of NPR.
(03:00):
So we work really closely with ourcolleagues at NPR, National Public Media.
We are producing all sponsorship,whether that's for,
the sponsor messagesyou hear on the radio,
whether that sponsor messagesyou hear in podcasts or that
you see on NPR's digital platformslike their website and the NPR one app
(03:20):
and our team, npm creative really,you can think of us as the in-house
creative agencyfor national public media or NPM.
So in the same way that we have that NPR,we refer to National Public Media's NPM.
How much design work doyou actually do with the sponsorship ads?
Are they designed
primarily by you or by the client,or is it a toss up between both?
(03:41):
So it is a mix.
NPM offersstandard placements for many campaigns.
So for example,a standard 15 or 30 second podcast ad,
that would be you know, the clientsharing scripts that's carefully
vetted by our, by our teamand then read by NPR sponsorship talent.
(04:02):
But where our team really comes into playis when a client
is looking to do something more custom.
So when they want to create a customaudio visual campaign
that's sort of holistic,that's running in NPR podcasts,
that's running, on the NPR websiteand an NPR one.
And our role, you know,especially where Shannon and I come in
(04:23):
is we we work with clients.
To really help them
craft their story in a way that'sgoing to resonate to the NPR audience.
So I'll I'll pass it over to Shannonto share more about how we do that.
I think to Sara's point,
what we're trying to dois make sure that any sponsorship
we create for our clients really doesresonate with the NPR audience.
So we have to take into account the tone.
(04:46):
Public media is a very different tone thancommercial radio or anything like that.
So we're definitely making surethat we collaborate with our clients
when they come inand kind of recommend for them, hey, okay,
this is the story you want,
and this is how we can really makethat shine for the NPR audience.
Sometimes that's from the get go.
We're able to kind of recommend storylinesor themes
(05:08):
or people that we want to, recommendspeak in the story.
And other times
they come to us with the set ideaand we get to kind of collaborate
and figure outwhat that looks like together.
And really craft something,in the public media kind of lens.
Right.
For our audience, we have a scripted
mid-roll that we call a productinspiration Mid-roll.
(05:31):
We have Spotlight Mid-rolls, which,if you're listening to an NPR podcast
and you hear the followingmessage comes from our sponsor, etc., etc.
and then there's a clip fromthe sponsor, like a speaker,
who either works for the
sponsor or worked withthat is our spotlight Mid-roll.
So we get to work with the clientsto find that voice and tell that story.
And those are often paired withwhat are our brand soundscapes,
(05:54):
and those are 2 to 3 minute long stories
that run in different ad placementson the digital platforms.
The following message comes from YouTube,featuring this story
of an extraordinary creator.
Meet Leopolden well,
I've always had a love affair with toolsand just working with my hands.
(06:15):
I just have always loved it.
I think I was maybe 12 or 13 years old.
I was the first girlto take shop class at my school.
Leah, better known as See JaneDrill, began her YouTube
channel in 2013 after three decadesworking in construction trades.
She set out to start her own business,which includes creating videos
(06:37):
that help to take the mysteryout of all things mechanical.
Millions of viewers have turnedto Leah's content
to learn how to fix, renewand restore their own stuff.
You need to know the basicsat least about repairing making repairs.
You know, if you have an emergency,
you need to knowhow to shut off the water.
So we get to work with the clientsto find that voice and tell that story.
(07:00):
Those are often paired withwhat are our brand soundscapes,
and those are 2 to 3 minute long stories
that run in different ad placementson the digital platforms.
The following message comes from NPRsponsor Sierra Nevada Brewing Company.
Brewing is a pretty resourceintensive industry and process.
We do a really good job of thinkingabout bringing a waste product back
(07:26):
into a process, or into the same processthat it came from.
Yes, it makes business sense for us,but then we're also making sure
we're being goodstewards in our community.
Hi, my name
is Mandy McKayand I am the director of sustainability
and social responsibilityfor Sierra Nevada Brewing Company.
We opened our second facility in Mills
(07:48):
River, North Carolina in 2015.
So it really was this amazing opportunityto showcase.
So a little bit differentthan like podcasts
or like typical mid-rolls,but figured I'd toss that out there.
No, that's very, very helpful actually.
You mentioned the word brand soundscape,and so you got my attention on that.
Yeah.
You kind of, break that, breakthat down for me a little bit.
(08:10):
I'm a sonic brander.
So when you say something like that,I'm like, okay, this is exciting.
How how do you make soundwork for the story?
And that's kind of separate from words,but maybe it's both.
What how would you like to describe it?
So I would say that our brands,
soundscapes, the creative approachwe are taking here is telling a story.
(08:31):
Ultimately thinking of itsort of like a public media news piece,
kind of, you know, thatjournalistic inspired audio story,
getting to know somebody,putting a face to the work
that is being talked about,whether that's finding like,
product manager, an
engineer, a programmer, a designer,
(08:52):
somebody from the brandwho can really connect with the audience.
I think that it all comes down to thatfor me is like person first storytelling.
And that's really what I mean when I saythis public media approach is like,
let's put a face to it,let's get the audience
somebody that they can get to know.
Let's hear about why they love their job,what they're doing,
(09:15):
why they think it will make an impact.
And then from there, we're able to kind offigure out what pieces make sense
for the story line and score itaccordingly with, custom compositions.
And sometimes, we'll do somelike immersive sound design as well,
depending on the storyand if it makes sense.
But I think it's really tryingto let that person's story
(09:35):
and that person's narrative shinethrough to tell the brand story.
The reason we take that approach,which is a pretty different approach
from a lot of other publishers,I'm, you know, content studios.
It's really because of that relationshipbetween NPR and their audience.
That's something that's really special.
There's a very high degree of trustbetween NPR listeners and the NPR
(09:59):
brand and, you know, working for NPM,
and on our team,we're NPR listeners as well.
Like,that's the thing we really understand
and we really honorthat, that relationship.
And so we want to make surethat all of the stories
that we're producingare supporting that audience trust.
We want to make surethat every piece of audio we're producing
(10:19):
is meeting that same really high qualityin terms of the audio,
in terms of the tone and the production,and we know that this makes a difference.
We have a lot of researchwith our NPR audience.
And, you know, 7 in 10 NPRlisteners say that
their opinion of a businessis more positive when it supports NPR.
And so that's somethingwe really keep in mind,
(10:41):
and really take
very seriouslywhen we're producing our stories.
I have to agree with you,because I am also an NPR listener,
and there is something about the wayit's presented and the breath
that is taken, in between ads,in between programing,
there's just a sense of purposethat I really, really appreciate.
(11:03):
I always think about, you know,I’d love to make my podcast more of like
an NPR style, the care that is takento put on a podcast on NPR.
You need a you need a village.
And I'm one person, sobut I very, very much respect what you do.
And I hope that at one dayI can actually take the moment
(11:23):
and the time to put together programinglike you guys put together.
So thank you for that.And I really appreciate that.
Even down to the advertising,whether it be for product
or for another showthat you take the care for that as well.
So that's really, really great.
I just want to thank you.
Thank you for that and saythat we feel the same way, like the work
we get to see the producersfor NPR podcasts and NPR programing,
(11:47):
the amount of, intentionalitythey put into that work really drives
why we are taking as much time as we are,because we just like
you said and as Sara saidbefore, I'm just echoing it again.
It's like thattrust between NPR and its audience.
We never want to,you know, stand in the way of that.
And so we're going to make surethat we're very mindful,
(12:08):
and we we like to call it mindfulsponsorship.
And we've done several presentationswith that like title, you know,
just our little keywords there.
It's really important to us.
So we really appreciategetting to talk about it.
We we three will know the answer to this.
But I'm going to just put it out there
because it's an important thingthat I think that a lot of people,
just need to be reminded of.
(12:29):
I guess.
But, how important is creativity in npmsponsorship design?
Why can't we just use the same adsthat we use for TV
and other media on this programing?
NPR has a very specific style and tone,
as you mentioned, very journalistic.
It sounds pretty differentto a lot of commercial media.
(12:52):
And I think that's why, you know,when we're crafting our stories
for sponsors,we want to both kind of mirror that tone
and then also really kind of enhanceaudience trust
by also helping them understandwhat is sponsorship and what isn't.
We never want to kind of pretendthat a sponsor story we're making
is an NPR story.
(13:12):
So we want to both have those sponsorstories, in tone and style,
be very similar,
but also make sure
that we're being very clearwhen a message is coming from a sponsor.
And I think that really playsinto our approach.
And I know we'll speak a little bitin terms of how we use
music, for example,both kind of giving listeners
audio cues to understandwhen a message is from a sponsor.
(13:35):
And also just making sure that we're,you know, striving for that
same really high level of qualityin everything we produce.
I'd also add, and this may sound obvious
when I say it,but like audio storytelling is different.
You are when you think abouthow much of communication is nonverbal,
and then you remove any of those cuesand you just have the audio track,
(13:59):
you then have to kind of think
about how you're telling a storyin a completely different way.
And I'm sure many of your listenersare familiar with this already,
but the idea of
you're not going to sit in the studioand describe what you're seeing.
In the same way when you knowthat somebody else can't see it right?
So if somebody is going to tell meabout the work they're accomplishing,
if a sponsor comes inand wants to talk about the product
(14:22):
they've designed, we have to talk about itin a completely different way.
And a lot of that is invokingfeeling and talking about how
how the experience of that product is,I would say, rather than be like,
oh, look at these buttons.Aren't they nicely designed?
What buttons are we talking about?Nobody knows.
And I think the other thingthat we keep in mind with that is also
(14:43):
just how you tell the storywhen it comes to information and data.
Because when you get a story that's 2 or3 minutes long with our brand soundscapes,
we don't want to fill that 2 to 3 minuteswith a list of statistics,
because that doesn't hold in the same wayas getting somebody to understand
through a detailed story,
(15:04):
through information and tangibletakeaways, what that statistic
actually means, what that looks like,and what the impact of that is.
So as we're telling these storiesand we're taking this creative approach,
that's also part of the reasonwe're taking that more journalistic,
approach to this is asking the follow upquestions that might seem obvious
when you're likehaving a conversation with somebody,
(15:25):
but when you're recording and you'retrying to make sure that you are making,
you know, a full piece that answersall the questions the listener might have,
there's just some little obvious things
that you don't necessarilythink about in other mediums.
I would say
one of the things that really setsthe stories that we produce apart,
and that we have to kind of explain
when we're working with sponsorsfor the first time is,
(15:48):
you know, in a lot of advertising,
you know, things are fully scriptedfor working with actors.
In our case, that's never the case.
Like, we always want to actually meetthe real people
from our brand who are, you know, actuallygetting the work done.
We're excited about their jobs,who are proud to be working for van.
We want to speak with those people,
(16:08):
and kind of help, as Shannon said, get
those details about their workbecause we know that ultimately
that's what's going to resonatewith our listeners.
They're curiousand they want to know the real story.
And, you know,that's something that also in the data
that we've found, really proves true.
So, NPM had conducted a studywith neuro insight that found that
(16:30):
NPR sponsor messages are 23%more memorable than traditional radio ads.
And I think a lot of that comes downto that fact of kind of really
being able to convey, what a brandis doing in a very genuine way
It’s interesting,because a lot of my research on marketing
has been that,and I think we kind of know this, too, is
(16:53):
when you're marketing your product,
you can't just sell at people anymore.
They want to invest in you.
They want to understand and relate to you.
EspeciallyI think it was the statistics for,
for like generationX and Y and Alpha and all of them,
like they very much want to be rootedin that company and believe in it.
(17:14):
And the,the level of believing is different,
you know, if it has to be doing thingsfor the environment or whatever.
But the fact of the matter is,you can't just do an ad like
we used to see in the 80s, in the 90swhere it says,
come to McDonald's and eat our burgerslike it doesn't work that way.
But if you do (ba-da-ba-ba-bah) thatthat that it will entice
(17:36):
you more, then come over here and eat,you know,
and I think that that is definitelythe difference with,
sound advertising and sound entertainmentis that
without the visual, you have to emote.
And, it'sjust it's another level of complexity.
But it's funny because I also can see itplay better on that version
(18:01):
onto visual mediumas is than the other way around.
Like for example, I don't know if you guysever heard the podcast Lime Town.
Did you ever hear about.
Oh yes.
Oh my goodness yes. Yeah.And then they did.
I only could watch one episode.because It was too tense for me.
But then Jessica Biel, I think it was she,
(18:22):
took the lead part or something on the TVversion of it, and it was powerful.
And listening to the podcastwas even more powerful.
And you had no visual,but they got their point across.
So anyways, that's my my soapbox on that.
No, it's a, it's a,
it made me think,
they also did it with homecomingand a bunch of other scripted
(18:44):
fiction podcastswhere you once you take that narrative
and you have to addall these other visual cues,
there's so many different thingsthat you have to think about.
And just being able to translate thatinto a story that makes sense.
And answers all the questions. It'sa whole it's a huge lift.
I would say.
For more on what NPM is doing,
(19:07):
check out National Public media.org.
I hope you're enjoying the show.
Don't forget to subscribeon all the major podcast channels, share
with friends, follow and rate.
Spread the word because, well,more people should know about this stuff.
I know you know that.
Now for any other inquiries, you can findme on LinkedIn, Twitter and Facebook.
(19:28):
You can also email me at Jeanna@DreamrProductions.com
All links will be provided in the shownotes.
Let's make this world of soundmore intriguing, more unique, and more
and more on brand.
Welcome to the Sound in Marketing podcast.
Today's guests are Sara Barbour and Shannon Boerner
from npm National Public Media.
I'm your host, Jeanna Isham, ownerand founder of Dreamr Productions
and Sound in Marketing Learning.
I create, consult and educate
brands and individualson the power of sound in marketing.
(00:26):
Looking to create branded soundor need a sound strategist?
Head on over to www.DreamrProductions.comand let's chat.
That's www.DreamrProductions.com
www.DreamrProductions.com
Want to learn more about soundin marketing these days?
Go to www.SoundInMarketing.com.
There's courses and resourcesgalore for season five.
I'm excited to bring you morefrom the brands and companies actually
(00:49):
producing and implementing Mindful Sound.
This either means official Sonic branding,sound
and or music tied to brand identity,or simply companies
that are taking their use of soundand music more seriously.
A lot of cool angles and creativityin store this season, so stay tuned.
Now onto the show.
(01:09):
Today we'll be discussing podcastand digital sponsorship
on NPR programing with my guests Sara Barbour and Shannon Boerner.
Shannon Boerner is the supervising producerat NPM creative,
the in-house creative teamthat provides research, strategy,
design, creative and audioproduction services to NPR sponsors.
(01:31):
Shannon is an audio producerand storyteller with previous experience
working on both editorialand branded content at Fast Company
and Slate, and has a rich historyin the audio industry.
First, getting their start in programingand editing as a teen
in their role at NPM creative.
Shannon leads audio productionand innovation for custom products.
(01:52):
They are a graduate of Lewisand Clark College with a Bachelor's
of Arts in Rhetoric and Media Studies.
Sara Barbour is the senior productionmanager for NPM creative, where she works
closely with the designers,audio producers, and NPR sponsors
to help bring brand storiesto life on NPR's digital platforms.
Prior to joining the team in 2018,she worked as a creative producer
(02:16):
at column five media and project managerat Conservation International.
She loves the intersectionof storytelling and project management
and is a lifelong NPR fan.
Welcome to the show, Sara and Shannon.
Thank you for having us. Great to be here.
So I'm really excited
to have you guys on here because as I wassaying, off recording, I did not realize
(02:37):
that there was a separate intersectionbetween NPR and NPM.
You are a different affiliate,and I would love it
if we could kind of just unpack thata little bit.
Can you explain how you work with and workaside from NPR?
So the team that Shannon and I are a partof, NPM creative
is part of National Public Media,the corporate sponsorship arm of NPR.
(03:00):
So we work really closely with ourcolleagues at NPR, National Public Media.
We are producing all sponsorship,whether that's for,
the sponsor messagesyou hear on the radio,
whether that sponsor messagesyou hear in podcasts or that
you see on NPR's digital platformslike their website and the NPR one app
(03:20):
and our team, npm creative really,you can think of us as the in-house
creative agencyfor national public media or NPM.
So in the same way that we have that NPR,we refer to National Public Media's NPM.
How much design work doyou actually do with the sponsorship ads?
Are they designed
primarily by you or by the client,or is it a toss up between both?
(03:41):
So it is a mix.
NPM offersstandard placements for many campaigns.
So for example,a standard 15 or 30 second podcast ad,
that would be you know, the clientsharing scripts that's carefully
vetted by our, by our teamand then read by NPR sponsorship talent.
(04:02):
But where our team really comes into playis when a client
is looking to do something more custom.
So when they want to create a customaudio visual campaign
that's sort of holistic,that's running in NPR podcasts,
that's running, on the NPR websiteand an NPR one.
And our role, you know,especially where Shannon and I come in
(04:23):
is we we work with clients.
To really help them
craft their story in a way that'sgoing to resonate to the NPR audience.
So I'll I'll pass it over to Shannonto share more about how we do that.
I think to Sara's point,
what we're trying to dois make sure that any sponsorship
we create for our clients really doesresonate with the NPR audience.
So we have to take into account the tone.
(04:46):
Public media is a very different tone thancommercial radio or anything like that.
So we're definitely making surethat we collaborate with our clients
when they come inand kind of recommend for them, hey, okay,
this is the story you want,
and this is how we can really makethat shine for the NPR audience.
Sometimes that's from the get go.
We're able to kind of recommend storylinesor themes
(05:08):
or people that we want to, recommendspeak in the story.
And other times
they come to us with the set ideaand we get to kind of collaborate
and figure outwhat that looks like together.
And really craft something,in the public media kind of lens.
Right.
For our audience, we have a scripted
mid-roll that we call a productinspiration Mid-roll.
(05:31):
We have Spotlight Mid-rolls, which,if you're listening to an NPR podcast
and you hear the followingmessage comes from our sponsor, etc., etc.
and then there's a clip fromthe sponsor, like a speaker,
who either works for the
sponsor or worked withthat is our spotlight Mid-roll.
So we get to work with the clientsto find that voice and tell that story.
And those are often paired withwhat are our brand soundscapes,
(05:54):
and those are 2 to 3 minute long stories
that run in different ad placementson the digital platforms.
The following message comes from YouTube,featuring this story
of an extraordinary creator.
Meet Leopolden well,
I've always had a love affair with toolsand just working with my hands.
(06:15):
I just have always loved it.
I think I was maybe 12 or 13 years old.
I was the first girlto take shop class at my school.
Leah, better known as See JaneDrill, began her YouTube
channel in 2013 after three decadesworking in construction trades.
She set out to start her own business,which includes creating videos
(06:37):
that help to take the mysteryout of all things mechanical.
Millions of viewers have turnedto Leah's content
to learn how to fix, renewand restore their own stuff.
You need to know the basicsat least about repairing making repairs.
You know, if you have an emergency,
you need to knowhow to shut off the water.
So we get to work with the clientsto find that voice and tell that story.
(07:00):
Those are often paired withwhat are our brand soundscapes,
and those are 2 to 3 minute long stories
that run in different ad placementson the digital platforms.
The following message comes from NPRsponsor Sierra Nevada Brewing Company.
Brewing is a pretty resourceintensive industry and process.
We do a really good job of thinkingabout bringing a waste product back
(07:26):
into a process, or into the same processthat it came from.
Yes, it makes business sense for us,but then we're also making sure
we're being goodstewards in our community.
Hi, my name
is Mandy McKayand I am the director of sustainability
and social responsibilityfor Sierra Nevada Brewing Company.
We opened our second facility in Mills
(07:48):
River, North Carolina in 2015.
So it really was this amazing opportunityto showcase.
So a little bit differentthan like podcasts
or like typical mid-rolls,but figured I'd toss that out there.
No, that's very, very helpful actually.
You mentioned the word brand soundscape,and so you got my attention on that.
Yeah.
You kind of, break that, breakthat down for me a little bit.
(08:10):
I'm a sonic brander.
So when you say something like that,I'm like, okay, this is exciting.
How how do you make soundwork for the story?
And that's kind of separate from words,but maybe it's both.
What how would you like to describe it?
So I would say that our brands,
soundscapes, the creative approachwe are taking here is telling a story.
(08:31):
Ultimately thinking of itsort of like a public media news piece,
kind of, you know, thatjournalistic inspired audio story,
getting to know somebody,putting a face to the work
that is being talked about,whether that's finding like,
product manager, an
engineer, a programmer, a designer,
(08:52):
somebody from the brandwho can really connect with the audience.
I think that it all comes down to thatfor me is like person first storytelling.
And that's really what I mean when I saythis public media approach is like,
let's put a face to it,let's get the audience
somebody that they can get to know.
Let's hear about why they love their job,what they're doing,
(09:15):
why they think it will make an impact.
And then from there, we're able to kind offigure out what pieces make sense
for the story line and score itaccordingly with, custom compositions.
And sometimes, we'll do somelike immersive sound design as well,
depending on the storyand if it makes sense.
But I think it's really tryingto let that person's story
(09:35):
and that person's narrative shinethrough to tell the brand story.
The reason we take that approach,which is a pretty different approach
from a lot of other publishers,I'm, you know, content studios.
It's really because of that relationshipbetween NPR and their audience.
That's something that's really special.
There's a very high degree of trustbetween NPR listeners and the NPR
(09:59):
brand and, you know, working for NPM,
and on our team,we're NPR listeners as well.
Like,that's the thing we really understand
and we really honorthat, that relationship.
And so we want to make surethat all of the stories
that we're producingare supporting that audience trust.
We want to make surethat every piece of audio we're producing
(10:19):
is meeting that same really high qualityin terms of the audio,
in terms of the tone and the production,and we know that this makes a difference.
We have a lot of researchwith our NPR audience.
And, you know, 7 in 10 NPRlisteners say that
their opinion of a businessis more positive when it supports NPR.
And so that's somethingwe really keep in mind,
(10:41):
and really take
very seriouslywhen we're producing our stories.
I have to agree with you,because I am also an NPR listener,
and there is something about the wayit's presented and the breath
that is taken, in between ads,in between programing,
there's just a sense of purposethat I really, really appreciate.
(11:03):
I always think about, you know,I’d love to make my podcast more of like
an NPR style, the care that is takento put on a podcast on NPR.
You need a you need a village.
And I'm one person, sobut I very, very much respect what you do.
And I hope that at one dayI can actually take the moment
(11:23):
and the time to put together programinglike you guys put together.
So thank you for that.And I really appreciate that.
Even down to the advertising,whether it be for product
or for another showthat you take the care for that as well.
So that's really, really great.
I just want to thank you.
Thank you for that and saythat we feel the same way, like the work
we get to see the producersfor NPR podcasts and NPR programing,
(11:47):
the amount of, intentionalitythey put into that work really drives
why we are taking as much time as we are,because we just like
you said and as Sara saidbefore, I'm just echoing it again.
It's like thattrust between NPR and its audience.
We never want to,you know, stand in the way of that.
And so we're going to make surethat we're very mindful,
(12:08):
and we we like to call it mindfulsponsorship.
And we've done several presentationswith that like title, you know,
just our little keywords there.
It's really important to us.
So we really appreciategetting to talk about it.
We we three will know the answer to this.
But I'm going to just put it out there
because it's an important thingthat I think that a lot of people,
just need to be reminded of.
(12:29):
I guess.
But, how important is creativity in npmsponsorship design?
Why can't we just use the same adsthat we use for TV
and other media on this programing?
NPR has a very specific style and tone,
as you mentioned, very journalistic.
It sounds pretty differentto a lot of commercial media.
(12:52):
And I think that's why, you know,when we're crafting our stories
for sponsors,we want to both kind of mirror that tone
and then also really kind of enhanceaudience trust
by also helping them understandwhat is sponsorship and what isn't.
We never want to kind of pretendthat a sponsor story we're making
is an NPR story.
(13:12):
So we want to both have those sponsorstories, in tone and style,
be very similar,
but also make sure
that we're being very clearwhen a message is coming from a sponsor.
And I think that really playsinto our approach.
And I know we'll speak a little bitin terms of how we use
music, for example,both kind of giving listeners
audio cues to understandwhen a message is from a sponsor.
(13:35):
And also just making sure that we're,you know, striving for that
same really high level of qualityin everything we produce.
I'd also add, and this may sound obvious
when I say it,but like audio storytelling is different.
You are when you think abouthow much of communication is nonverbal,
and then you remove any of those cuesand you just have the audio track,
(13:59):
you then have to kind of think
about how you're telling a storyin a completely different way.
And I'm sure many of your listenersare familiar with this already,
but the idea of
you're not going to sit in the studioand describe what you're seeing.
In the same way when you knowthat somebody else can't see it right?
So if somebody is going to tell meabout the work they're accomplishing,
if a sponsor comes inand wants to talk about the product
(14:22):
they've designed, we have to talk about itin a completely different way.
And a lot of that is invokingfeeling and talking about how
how the experience of that product is,I would say, rather than be like,
oh, look at these buttons.Aren't they nicely designed?
What buttons are we talking about?Nobody knows.
And I think the other thingthat we keep in mind with that is also
(14:43):
just how you tell the storywhen it comes to information and data.
Because when you get a story that's 2 or3 minutes long with our brand soundscapes,
we don't want to fill that 2 to 3 minuteswith a list of statistics,
because that doesn't hold in the same wayas getting somebody to understand
through a detailed story,
(15:04):
through information and tangibletakeaways, what that statistic
actually means, what that looks like,and what the impact of that is.
So as we're telling these storiesand we're taking this creative approach,
that's also part of the reasonwe're taking that more journalistic,
approach to this is asking the follow upquestions that might seem obvious
when you're likehaving a conversation with somebody,
(15:25):
but when you're recording and you'retrying to make sure that you are making,
you know, a full piece that answersall the questions the listener might have,
there's just some little obvious things
that you don't necessarilythink about in other mediums.
I would say
one of the things that really setsthe stories that we produce apart,
and that we have to kind of explain
when we're working with sponsorsfor the first time is,
(15:48):
you know, in a lot of advertising,
you know, things are fully scriptedfor working with actors.
In our case, that's never the case.
Like, we always want to actually meetthe real people
from our brand who are, you know, actuallygetting the work done.
We're excited about their jobs,who are proud to be working for van.
We want to speak with those people,
(16:08):
and kind of help, as Shannon said, get
those details about their workbecause we know that ultimately
that's what's going to resonatewith our listeners.
They're curiousand they want to know the real story.
And, you know,that's something that also in the data
that we've found, really proves true.
So, NPM had conducted a studywith neuro insight that found that
(16:30):
NPR sponsor messages are 23%more memorable than traditional radio ads.
And I think a lot of that comes downto that fact of kind of really
being able to convey, what a brandis doing in a very genuine way
It’s interesting,because a lot of my research on marketing
has been that,and I think we kind of know this, too, is
(16:53):
when you're marketing your product,
you can't just sell at people anymore.
They want to invest in you.
They want to understand and relate to you.
EspeciallyI think it was the statistics for,
for like generationX and Y and Alpha and all of them,
like they very much want to be rootedin that company and believe in it.
(17:14):
And the,the level of believing is different,
you know, if it has to be doing thingsfor the environment or whatever.
But the fact of the matter is,you can't just do an ad like
we used to see in the 80s, in the 90swhere it says,
come to McDonald's and eat our burgerslike it doesn't work that way.
But if you do (ba-da-ba-ba-bah) thatthat that it will entice
(17:36):
you more, then come over here and eat,you know,
and I think that that is definitelythe difference with,
sound advertising and sound entertainmentis that
without the visual, you have to emote.
And, it'sjust it's another level of complexity.
But it's funny because I also can see itplay better on that version
(18:01):
onto visual mediumas is than the other way around.
Like for example, I don't know if you guysever heard the podcast Lime Town.
Did you ever hear about.
Oh yes.
Oh my goodness yes. Yeah.And then they did.
I only could watch one episode.because It was too tense for me.
But then Jessica Biel, I think it was she,
(18:22):
took the lead part or something on the TVversion of it, and it was powerful.
And listening to the podcastwas even more powerful.
And you had no visual,but they got their point across.
So anyways, that's my my soapbox on that.
No, it's a, it's a,
it made me think,
they also did it with homecomingand a bunch of other scripted
(18:44):
fiction podcastswhere you once you take that narrative
and you have to addall these other visual cues,
there's so many different thingsthat you have to think about.
And just being able to translate thatinto a story that makes sense.
And answers all the questions. It'sa whole it's a huge lift.
I would say.
For more on what NPM is doing,
(19:07):
check out National Public media.org.
I hope you're enjoying the show.
Don't forget to subscribeon all the major podcast channels, share
with friends, follow and rate.
Spread the word because, well,more people should know about this stuff.
I know you know that.
Now for any other inquiries, you can findme on LinkedIn, Twitter and Facebook.
(19:28):
You can also email me at Jeanna@DreamrProductions.com
All links will be provided in the shownotes.
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and more on brand.
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