April 14, 2024 • 22 mins
Ever felt that jolt when you recognize a song from a commercial but can't place the artist? Or heard a voice so unique that it can only belong to one legend in the music industry? Buckle up for a ride through the musical maze with our latest exploration into the Eels. We uncover the band's seamless dance between the somber "Novocaine for the Soul" and the bubbly "Saturday Morning," while delving into the intriguing life of frontman Mark Everett. His story, from perfectionist roots to a more laid-back approach, mirrors the band's evolution—an arc we trace with anecdotes and the kind of insider knowledge that can only come from up-close experiences at their concerts.
The conversation then steers towards the unsung heroes of the music scene—those session musicians and songwriters whose magic touch remains hidden from the limelight. Do you know the impact your favorite artist's vocal twang or lyrical genius has on their rise to fame? We tackle this question head-on, bringing in examples from the likes of Bob Dylan and Tom Waits to indie favorites like Spoon. Join us as we reflect on how these insights might shape our creative endeavors, with a nod to the power of music to transcend its creators and become a part of our collective experience.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Andrew (00:04):
Let me double check the audio.
Okay, we're good.
Will (00:10):
Cool.
Well, I guess Bean's had enoughof us.
Pretty much no peaches today.
She's scared.
Yeah, it's all you.
No, I'm going.
This is it, oh shit.
(00:40):
Yeah, it's all you.
No, I'm going.
This is it, oh shit, uh.
So I guess you probably haveheard the Eels, even if you
don't know who they are.
Andrew (00:52):
Is it one of those where , if I heard the song, I'd be
like, yeah, I've heard that.
Will (00:56):
Maybe they were in a lot of movies and shows.
They had a new record come outthis past year Still around.
Andrew (01:04):
How far back do they go?
Uh, I think, like earlynineties Okay.
Will (01:10):
So, um one of their big hits was one of the songs I was
going to talk about.
Um, uh, so I kind of wanted toframe this as like, like,
they're a band who've written alot of things, um, some of them
serious, some of them not, someof them for movies, some of them
for themselves, got it.
They've done some covers too, Ibelieve, but they are really
(01:31):
good at oscillating betweenthose two things.
Okay, and the singer, markEverett.
His father was a famousscientist, so he had a really
interesting life.
But, uh, the more serious one, Iguess we can start with that um
, novocaine for the soul is like, I mean, it's a pretty simple
(01:56):
song um, you mean lyrically,like simple, or yeah, yeah their
kind of format is rock, um, butit's just such a powerful song
like the composition of it toois really interesting, like it's
like starts out really slow andkind of somber, has a build to
(02:17):
it okay.
Andrew (02:18):
So it's not just like a static, static like the whole
way through the song.
Will (02:22):
It goes up and down yeah, it goes up and down but it's
like either very like kind ofsad and powerful or like rocky
and powerful got it got it, butalways forceful in that way,
right, yeah, like like theopening lyrics, or life is hard,
so am I.
Andrew (02:36):
You better give me something so I don't die I mean
that's yeah, that's pretty hard,that's pretty hardcore yeah, I
mean, if you're yeah doingak oryou want Novakane, that's.
I feel like how you feel.
Well, you said they werestraightforward and there it is.
Will (02:47):
Yeah, yeah, but again like that's the main chorus and then
the end of the song is justlike before I sputter out is
like the last kind of likerefrain that he keeps saying.
Andrew (03:01):
He like before I sputter out, before I sputter out, yeah
, like refrain that he keepssaying.
He like before I sputter out,before I sputter out, yeah, yeah
, and there's a lot of coolguitar work in there and stuff,
oh nice.
Will (03:09):
But it's fun to like hear a song like that from a group
and then at the same time theother song I have is Saturday
Morning which is just like aboutSaturday morning and how much
it rules.
Andrew (03:22):
Is this like an opposite ?
An opposite, in a way, from theprior song we were talking
about?
Like you're?
Will (03:27):
kind of showing the two ends of this band yeah, yeah, I
would say so because neva camefor the souls also a really
early song, okay, saturdaymornings.
Like a later song, okay, notsuper late.
But like I feel like the themore like the later records all
have this kind of like rock androll vibe to them, like where he
, they almost kind of just wantto make a good rock album every
(03:49):
time.
Yeah, um, and this one, likeit's literally just about
saturday morning, it has morelyrics to it, honestly, but like
, yeah, like the parents aresleeping soundly, the neighbors
are dead as wood.
I'm getting up and coming over.
We're gonna rock theneighborhood like that's.
Andrew (04:04):
Yeah, I like it.
It's catchy and, like you'reright, like it has, it's
brutally catchy yeah, and it'slike a rock song you couldn't,
you couldn't remove a singleword from any of that and retain
the meaning it's like perfectlyefficient and I think, yeah, uh
, people call him colloquiallymr e.
Will (04:21):
Yeah, I think he just writes in that with that
methodology Right, like, verylike he's a good editor.
No access words, like no yeah.
Andrew (04:30):
And same with guitar and like the parts too, like
they're all pretty stripped down.
Will (04:34):
Yeah, but like each part that's there is very essential
Mm-hmm.
Like I saw them, I guess it waslast year now, but their last
tour was called hurricanelockdown yeah and like it was
when the hurricane hit and thenthe pandemic hit, okay, and then
years happened, yeah, and thenthey relaunched it yeah, um, but
(04:59):
they were all dressed up inlike leisure suits, like kind of
how like an old uh talk showband would look.
And they're all old now too,which is funny, like because,
right, they all have gray hairand, like you know, are singing
the same songs they were singingdid they over time, kind of get
less, less serious in a way?
Andrew (05:20):
no, at the opposite, okay, I think so.
It's like they they can beserious on one song and then,
like sort of like, write aboutSaturday or Sunday morning on
another song on the same album.
Will (05:30):
Oh, absolutely, but over time they've not gotten.
They've actually gotten sadderThey've gotten more loose Okay
got it Like I think there was alot of and there's some like
research I could do on this too.
But like I think Mr mysteryespecially was like very device
divisive in the studio, like ifsomething wasn't right they
would do it like 20 times.
(05:51):
okay, like one of thoseperfectionist things, yeah, yeah
and I think there's still anelement to him that way, but the
stuff they're writing now islike way more like open and okay
, yeah, um, like I said, justmore rock vibes maybe less, less
methodically, like processedthoroughly again.
Andrew (06:07):
Yeah, I know what you mean.
Will (06:08):
But he has that element to him, right.
I think that comes from hislike science dad background.
Like got it, got it.
Um, there is an element ofperfectionism to it.
Andrew (06:16):
Well, I like the lyrics how they're written and just
like, just strictly like.
As someone who's been an editorfor a publication like, the
first thing I think of when Ihear those lyrics, just beyond
the content of them, is like wow, there's nothing to remove.
An editor's job is always justto remove excess crap, because
(06:36):
inches on page is so important,um, but, but you can't.
It's perfectly efficient, soit's very.
Will (06:43):
Yeah, it would be a good exercise to just go through and
read all the songs because, likeFrom that era to like the
novocaine for the solar, therewas like another record,
electroshock blues, yeah, and hehas a song on there that's
really good and catchy but it'sabout like his sister had died
and like it was about her ghostrevisiting him.
(07:08):
But the way the song is writtenyou're kind of just in this
like story where you don'treally realize that's what it's
about.
But it clearly is about thatwhen you read it on got it got
it yeah um so he has thatquality to him where, like he
can just kind of get somethingon paper and then transform it
into like a really fun melodicthing because like people sing
along to never came for the soulyeah, I see like it's like a
bop, you know, and I noticedthat the rhymes I'm assuming
(07:30):
that's a a constant, like aconstant feature of his writing
yeah now that you mentioned it,like I think yeah, do another,
do another, uh, a snippet,because those are yeah, I mean I
think I think he rhymes a lotof his songs I don't know if
they all rhyme rhyme Got it, gotit Like, I think that has some
exceptions to it.
Yeah, but like, I mean literally, like like a significant for
(07:50):
the soul.
There's like one, two, threechoruses and then two verses and
and a break, Like it's not along song, Like got it, got it.
Yeah, um, but the instrumentalpart of it also plays into it
because like the guitar and it'sreally warbly and spooky
(08:10):
sounding, okay, um, like it'salmost as if like someone is
jonesing for nebuchadnezzar inthe song.
Yeah, um.
And like the another powerful,like stand up stanza, like
there's the life is hard one,which is like the strong intro,
and there's three stanzas likethat uh, the second one's, life
is white and I am black.
Jesus and his lawyer are comingback right.
Andrew (08:34):
So it's like billboardable, like yeah, it's
almost like yeah, full stop.
Will (08:38):
You don't really need much more.
Right um gets a message, apowerful message across yeah and
then the third one.
Like that there's a break, onethat's like um, a, and then the
third one like that there's abreak, one that's like a little
different.
But the third one like that islife is good and I feel great
because mother says I was agreat mistake.
So it's like yeah.
Andrew (08:56):
Like you, laugh because they're clever, but then they're
sad because they are.
Will (09:00):
Yeah, yeah, and I think these in that song in particular
rhyme a little bit more to makeit sound kind of more cheeky,
okay, and I think these in thatsong in particular rhyme a
little bit more to make it soundkind of more cheeky, okay.
Yeah, it's kind of like thatBritish humor thing of like it's
even sillier written, moresilly to be, more impactful.
I got it, yeah, Because if youdon't laugh at that then it's
(09:20):
like wow.
Yeah, it just reminds me oflike that 90s style of humor too
, where it's like super heavystuff but it's all very like
tongue-in-cheek yeah there's anickelodeon-ness to it.
Andrew (09:34):
I think to be like completely obtuse and say
something like that, but likethere's a, not childish, but
like it plays in both worlds.
Right, yeah, it's, yeah, it's.
At the same time it is humorousor clever, but also deep and
dark and sad.
Will (09:50):
I think a lot of bands at that time had that quality too,
like Nirvana had that quality.
Andrew (09:54):
Yes, a lot of their songs and it's not easy to do
right.
It might be easy to do intheory, but to really nail that
balance and do two things almostsimultaneously, I think is
lyrically quite difficult.
Will (10:11):
Yeah, almost simultaneously, I think is, yeah
, lyrically quite difficult,yeah, yeah.
And like, like I said, thelater stuff goes more into like
the saturday morning type vibewhere like there was a record
called hombre lobo wolfman, andlike there's just one song where
it's just like half howling,like he's just howling for half
of it, um, but it's a really funsong, like it's a cool rock
song, got it, uh, and he's hadlike the same lead guitarist, I
think, the entire time.
Drummer has been there theentire time.
I think the bassist has been too.
Andrew (10:33):
So it's a long-standing band?
Will (10:35):
Yeah, I mean they're they're like 30 year old friends
at least, and there's otherpeople who come into play too at
times, but, like they just allknow each other's Rhythms really
well, so the songs are alwaysreally, really tight.
Where did you see them when yousaw them last year?
Uh, metro, okay cool, yeah,they played the same night.
Fallout boy did really.
Andrew (10:55):
Yeah, fallout boy was playing at wrigley I was, yeah,
and they were playing in metroyeah, so it was kind of a funny
like dichotomy of right peoplewho's where?
Will (11:04):
well, the whole street.
Like I've never seenwrrigleyville like this.
But it was just like I did anymo grown emo kids yeah so like
there were 30 and 40 year oldpeople with emo hair, and then
there was like five peopleoutside the Eels show and I love
, I love.
Andrew (11:18):
I think it's because we're getting older, but and so
is the music we like, right, andso it's surprising to see
trends carry forward, but ourbodies and our minds age, yeah,
yeah, but like some things justdon't change, like dyed hair and
I mean it was definitelypresent that night.
Will (11:36):
Like, like I said, like I remember leaving that show and
then fallowboy was playing late,okay, and I just heard like
their hits on the way back tothe train.
Yeah, fallout boy was playinglate, okay, and I just heard
like their hits on the way backto the train, yeah, and I was
like wow, this is like reallyold stuff now, like 20 year old
stuff, yeah, yeah, um, has itbeen 20 years?
Is that right, or is it morelike 15, since?
Andrew (11:56):
when 90s, since the fallout boy hits like, oh, it's
probably been 20 years orsomething, yeah, yeah, it could
be right, could be longer, yeahyeah, that was early 2000s right
yeah, I mean it was popularwhen I was in high school too, I
guess.
Will (12:10):
So 20 years is caught right, and there's chicago
stands too, so I'm sure a falllove boy concert here is more
popular than a lot of placesyeah, they are international
stars.
Yeah, yeah, um, but it also isfunny to see like the eels doing
something still alongside themand like the people who were
there was a great show, likethey had a good time.
(12:32):
We had a good time.
Andrew (12:33):
Uh, there's just a different vibe I guess, yeah,
like they're older or just older.
Yeah, like I guess.
I guess you're comparing thevibe to back then.
Right, seeing them back then.
Will (12:47):
I guess I'm comparing the vibe to hundreds of thousands of
people being at the Fall OutBoy show Got it and a couple
hundred at the Eels show when atthe time they were both on MTV.
I see Interesting yeah.
And yeah, I think the Eels guysare a little bit older than the
Fall Out Boy people, butthey're still relevant.
(13:09):
One of their new Music videoshad Jon Hamm in it, like it was
pretty much just starting him.
Andrew (13:15):
That's cool.
Yeah, interesting, I had noclue.
They uh.
I Think I wanted to ask, like,is the music that you said they
came out with them last year,right yeah?
Will (13:27):
Yeah, anyone lyrically.
Andrew (13:29):
It's still like nothing's really changed about
the efficiency and the?
I Guess the style right.
You said the music is old.
Style always changes a littlebit.
Yeah, and the?
I guess the style right.
You said the music is open.
The style?
Will (13:37):
always changes a little bit.
But yeah, nothing about likethe kind of smart lyrics, the
clever.
Andrew (13:43):
Quick quips.
Quick and clever, that's good.
I think that's the style thatlike enhances a band like this.
It has to be yeah, and it'spretty timeless too.
It's cool.
Will (13:56):
But I mean this it has to be.
Yeah, it's pretty timeless too,like it's cool.
But I mean he can write, youknow, heartbreakers and stuff,
like, like I said, there weresome shows and there were some
songs and shows and movies, kindof like the never came for the
soul song, where it's like aboutsomething specific and kind of
heart-wrenching.
Um, I think it probably stillhas that indie quality to it
where it's like, oh, it's anindie band in a movie or
whatever.
Yeah, like I think spoon hasthat quality too where, like, a
(14:17):
lot of people have heard spoonsongs but they don't know who
spoon is.
Yeah, that's one of those bands.
Yeah, because, like, they havea bunch of songs that have been
um, distributed in shows andstuff.
Andrew (14:27):
But it's where the music is shown out of context of the
artist, meaning like someonehears the song in a commercial
or tv or wherever it is and theynot thinking it's not in a way
where you're supposed to thinkabout the music like who wrote
that.
It's more like the music isserving something else.
There's bands like that whoseem to write music that falls
into that space easily.
Will (14:46):
Yeah.
Andrew (14:46):
Yeah, Fly like an Eagle, like for the USPS, like, oh
well, I mean, that was a hugesong at the time.
Yeah, a huge song, but then itwas a USPS commercial.
Yeah, and it fit perfectly.
Will (15:00):
Yeah, there's something they said about writing music
that fits well into that space,but also is something you didn't
write for that you know Exactly.
Andrew (15:05):
Yeah, yeah, I found that interesting Lyrically, like it
checks out I'm sure if you diginto it, into all the albums,
you can just find stanza afterstanza of just bangers.
Will (15:21):
Oh, yeah, there's tons of singles too.
When I look back at it I'msurprised they've never done a
Greatest Hits record.
I mean, they probably wouldn'tbe opposed to that.
But yeah, there's just a lot ofsingles that were on the radio
play for a long time or in showswhat's his vocal performance
like?
Andrew (15:37):
is it?
Will (15:38):
uh, he kind of has it's kind of a rock quality of voice,
but it's like raspy old manvoice is like the best way to
describe it I guess.
Um, like, I can sing that wayif I have to, but it hurts my
voice to do it.
Andrew (15:54):
There's always a.
There's always a method toprojecting your voice Correctly
as to not hurt yourself.
Well, I'm not sure if hefollows that method or not, but
some don't yeah.
Will (16:04):
Yeah, but that's funny to me too, like quality of voice
and how people get popular thatway, like I Never in a million
years would have guessed theNational would be a popular band
, because it's just monotone,low, like droning, sad songs,
right, I think they're householdfame now, I mean, you could
write.
Andrew (16:23):
You could write the greatest lyrics and be the worst
singer and we know exactly whatI'm talking about like yeah,
yeah, but uh, and still be great, like legendary great, yeah, I
mean, bob dylan is probably themost famous for that.
That's's exactly what I'mtalking about.
Tom Waits is who I thought youwere talking about, though no,
no, bob Dylan.
Like you know, divisive singingsound Like the way he sings
(16:45):
kind of rubs some people's earsthe wrong way.
But most people agree that thesongs are written and the lyrics
are written so well.
Yeah, and seeing him fail likedoing electric songs and people
hating him.
Every great fails and I thinkthat the true greats, they must
have the greatest failures to bethe true greats.
Will (17:07):
Yeah, I mean he didn't fail himself.
But songs are great songs still.
But that first performance atthe Folk Festival he got booed
offstage and people were tryinglike hated it, yeah, but I mean
those people were wrong clearly.
Andrew (17:28):
Well, the verse is true too, for, like you could have,
you might be a terrible lyricistand not write anything great,
but you could have the greatestvoice in the world.
You just sing other people'slyrics.
Will (17:36):
Yeah, I do wonder if there's something to say about
is it better to have a killervoice and let people do the work
behind you, or is it better tobe an awesome songwriter and
musician but not have the chopsfor vocals?
Andrew (17:52):
or compositions maybe.
Will (17:54):
I think it's a great question, but it's also
impossible to answer yeah yeah,I mean, you see it sometimes
with, like how the best popsingers don't write a lot of
their songs.
Yeah, um, I mean, I'm sure somewould take issue with that,
like some do.
Andrew (18:07):
Some do write their songs, some don't.
Will (18:09):
Yeah but, like you know, like I mean even musical parts,
like I was listening to a videothe other day um, the toxic, the
britney spears song, okay, yeahand uh, the all the backing
vocals and or the backing tracksand everything were written by
all these different people.
Right, and like, the bass linefor that song is really
interesting because it soundslike a bass synth, okay, but
(18:32):
it's a, a bass with some sort ofaffected sound that makes it
sound like a synth.
Andrew (18:38):
And there's this, you know, studio bassist who wrote
it's like a person playing, asopposed to just programmed.
Yeah, well, and they came upwith the whole composition.
That's a really weird,interesting composition for bass
.
Will (18:49):
Yeah, on a song like that, but there's tons of superheroes
like that who do that work allthe time yeah, it's not.
Andrew (18:55):
If do it, it won't rule you out no, necessarily yeah, I
mean best case scenario.
Will (19:00):
it makes you a famous session musician.
Andrew (19:04):
Absolutely, yeah.
Yeah, I guess people gethyper-focused on.
Do people get hyper-focused onlyrics and vocal performance?
I think in most cases, yes.
I think people like to be ableto sing along to songs?
Yes, so I think they focus onthat.
It's the hookiest element, it'sthe closest Relatable sound,
(19:24):
because it's the sound of ahuman.
Will (19:25):
Yeah, yeah but I do find myself drawn to like unique
vocals.
Andrew (19:31):
My specialty?
Yeah, it just I mean it.
Something that that is, I meantom waits is different, yeah,
and if it, fits your musicalityexactly like tom wait's vocals
fit his tracks exactly.
It makes sense for what he'sdoing, yeah, and what he's
saying, glenn hansard is one too.
Will (19:46):
um, do you know him like?
No, he did like the music foronce, that movie that was
popular.
Uh, his former band was calledthe Frames, but he also plays
really interestingly too, likeguitar.
So his pairing I couldn't seeit any other way.
But then you have, on the otherhand, like a band like Bell and
(20:07):
Sebastian, where they're veryvocal forward but they kind of
pull from like funk and discofor their tracks and have a lot
of different kind of backing.
So I could see those disjointed, like they could probably have
different backing and sound fine.
Andrew (20:22):
Yeah.
So, yeah, I mean, it doesn'tmatter either way If people
focus on the vocals or theydon't.
If you get that out of music,that's great, but I think vocals
are obviously very important.
Lyrics then fall somewhere inline.
I don't think lyrics are allthe time, or even most of the
(20:44):
time, the most important thingabout a song, at least as people
think about them.
Regular people think about them, yeah.
Will (20:50):
I mean, I like having lyrics that I can dig into.
That's why I like Be lyricsthat I can dig into.
That's why I like the Olsen somuch is because they have a way
with words, they know what theirsongs are and they can lean
into that dichotomy ofseriousness and playfulness at
the same time.
Andrew (21:09):
Yeah, they found an artistic edge.
They found how Dr Seuss foundan edge.
Yeah, like a way ofcommunicating that seems so easy
.
I mean, until you realize, whenyou try to do it consistently
and creatively, it's actuallynot easy yeah, or if you try to
do it, do it from scratch, yeah,yeah, I'll come up with a fresh
idea, exactly, yeah, but I likeI appreciate that about the way
(21:33):
those those lyrics sounded isthat they just, you know they're
everything I you know they'replayful but also really sad,
yeah, and fucked up.
Will (21:41):
Yeah, that kind of sums it up.
Andrew (21:43):
Yeah, juicy the eels, juicy stuff.
Will (21:48):
Juicy eels, yeah.
So I guess that's kind of all Igot.
Andrew (21:52):
I like it.
That's good.
We learned something, I learnedsomething.
Will (21:55):
I learned something, I experienced a Cool way of
writing lyrics, yeah and yeah, Ihope to apply this to my own
lyric writing yeah, what youdoing by myself, it's next.
I said, hey, man, what youdoing by myself?
A big fatty's hitting one boy.
(22:21):
I said, hey, man, what youdoing by myself, it's next.
Let me double check the audio.
Okay, we're good.
Will (00:10):
Cool.
Well, I guess Bean's had enoughof us.
Pretty much no peaches today.
She's scared.
Yeah, it's all you.
No, I'm going.
This is it, oh shit.
(00:40):
Yeah, it's all you.
No, I'm going.
This is it, oh shit, uh.
So I guess you probably haveheard the Eels, even if you
don't know who they are.
Andrew (00:52):
Is it one of those where , if I heard the song, I'd be
like, yeah, I've heard that.
Will (00:56):
Maybe they were in a lot of movies and shows.
They had a new record come outthis past year Still around.
Andrew (01:04):
How far back do they go?
Uh, I think, like earlynineties Okay.
Will (01:10):
So, um one of their big hits was one of the songs I was
going to talk about.
Um, uh, so I kind of wanted toframe this as like, like,
they're a band who've written alot of things, um, some of them
serious, some of them not, someof them for movies, some of them
for themselves, got it.
They've done some covers too, Ibelieve, but they are really
(01:31):
good at oscillating betweenthose two things.
Okay, and the singer, markEverett.
His father was a famousscientist, so he had a really
interesting life.
But, uh, the more serious one, Iguess we can start with that um
, novocaine for the soul is like, I mean, it's a pretty simple
(01:56):
song um, you mean lyrically,like simple, or yeah, yeah their
kind of format is rock, um, butit's just such a powerful song
like the composition of it toois really interesting, like it's
like starts out really slow andkind of somber, has a build to
(02:17):
it okay.
Andrew (02:18):
So it's not just like a static, static like the whole
way through the song.
Will (02:22):
It goes up and down yeah, it goes up and down but it's
like either very like kind ofsad and powerful or like rocky
and powerful got it got it, butalways forceful in that way,
right, yeah, like like theopening lyrics, or life is hard,
so am I.
Andrew (02:36):
You better give me something so I don't die I mean
that's yeah, that's pretty hard,that's pretty hardcore yeah, I
mean, if you're yeah doingak oryou want Novakane, that's.
I feel like how you feel.
Well, you said they werestraightforward and there it is.
Will (02:47):
Yeah, yeah, but again like that's the main chorus and then
the end of the song is justlike before I sputter out is
like the last kind of likerefrain that he keeps saying.
Andrew (03:01):
He like before I sputter out, before I sputter out, yeah
, like refrain that he keepssaying.
He like before I sputter out,before I sputter out, yeah, yeah
, and there's a lot of coolguitar work in there and stuff,
oh nice.
Will (03:09):
But it's fun to like hear a song like that from a group
and then at the same time theother song I have is Saturday
Morning which is just like aboutSaturday morning and how much
it rules.
Andrew (03:22):
Is this like an opposite ?
An opposite, in a way, from theprior song we were talking
about?
Like you're?
Will (03:27):
kind of showing the two ends of this band yeah, yeah, I
would say so because neva camefor the souls also a really
early song, okay, saturdaymornings.
Like a later song, okay, notsuper late.
But like I feel like the themore like the later records all
have this kind of like rock androll vibe to them, like where he
, they almost kind of just wantto make a good rock album every
(03:49):
time.
Yeah, um, and this one, likeit's literally just about
saturday morning, it has morelyrics to it, honestly, but like
, yeah, like the parents aresleeping soundly, the neighbors
are dead as wood.
I'm getting up and coming over.
We're gonna rock theneighborhood like that's.
Andrew (04:04):
Yeah, I like it.
It's catchy and, like you'reright, like it has, it's
brutally catchy yeah, and it'slike a rock song you couldn't,
you couldn't remove a singleword from any of that and retain
the meaning it's like perfectlyefficient and I think, yeah, uh
, people call him colloquiallymr e.
Will (04:21):
Yeah, I think he just writes in that with that
methodology Right, like, verylike he's a good editor.
No access words, like no yeah.
Andrew (04:30):
And same with guitar and like the parts too, like
they're all pretty stripped down.
Will (04:34):
Yeah, but like each part that's there is very essential
Mm-hmm.
Like I saw them, I guess it waslast year now, but their last
tour was called hurricanelockdown yeah and like it was
when the hurricane hit and thenthe pandemic hit, okay, and then
years happened, yeah, and thenthey relaunched it yeah, um, but
(04:59):
they were all dressed up inlike leisure suits, like kind of
how like an old uh talk showband would look.
And they're all old now too,which is funny, like because,
right, they all have gray hairand, like you know, are singing
the same songs they were singingdid they over time, kind of get
less, less serious in a way?
Andrew (05:20):
no, at the opposite, okay, I think so.
It's like they they can beserious on one song and then,
like sort of like, write aboutSaturday or Sunday morning on
another song on the same album.
Will (05:30):
Oh, absolutely, but over time they've not gotten.
They've actually gotten sadderThey've gotten more loose Okay
got it Like I think there was alot of and there's some like
research I could do on this too.
But like I think Mr mysteryespecially was like very device
divisive in the studio, like ifsomething wasn't right they
would do it like 20 times.
(05:51):
okay, like one of thoseperfectionist things, yeah, yeah
and I think there's still anelement to him that way, but the
stuff they're writing now islike way more like open and okay
, yeah, um, like I said, justmore rock vibes maybe less, less
methodically, like processedthoroughly again.
Andrew (06:07):
Yeah, I know what you mean.
Will (06:08):
But he has that element to him, right.
I think that comes from hislike science dad background.
Like got it, got it.
Um, there is an element ofperfectionism to it.
Andrew (06:16):
Well, I like the lyrics how they're written and just
like, just strictly like.
As someone who's been an editorfor a publication like, the
first thing I think of when Ihear those lyrics, just beyond
the content of them, is like wow, there's nothing to remove.
An editor's job is always justto remove excess crap, because
(06:36):
inches on page is so important,um, but, but you can't.
It's perfectly efficient, soit's very.
Will (06:43):
Yeah, it would be a good exercise to just go through and
read all the songs because, likeFrom that era to like the
novocaine for the solar, therewas like another record,
electroshock blues, yeah, and hehas a song on there that's
really good and catchy but it'sabout like his sister had died
and like it was about her ghostrevisiting him.
(07:08):
But the way the song is writtenyou're kind of just in this
like story where you don'treally realize that's what it's
about.
But it clearly is about thatwhen you read it on got it got
it yeah um so he has thatquality to him where, like he
can just kind of get somethingon paper and then transform it
into like a really fun melodicthing because like people sing
along to never came for the soulyeah, I see like it's like a
bop, you know, and I noticedthat the rhymes I'm assuming
(07:30):
that's a a constant, like aconstant feature of his writing
yeah now that you mentioned it,like I think yeah, do another,
do another, uh, a snippet,because those are yeah, I mean I
think I think he rhymes a lotof his songs I don't know if
they all rhyme rhyme Got it, gotit Like, I think that has some
exceptions to it.
Yeah, but like, I mean literally, like like a significant for
(07:50):
the soul.
There's like one, two, threechoruses and then two verses and
and a break, Like it's not along song, Like got it, got it.
Yeah, um, but the instrumentalpart of it also plays into it
because like the guitar and it'sreally warbly and spooky
(08:10):
sounding, okay, um, like it'salmost as if like someone is
jonesing for nebuchadnezzar inthe song.
Yeah, um.
And like the another powerful,like stand up stanza, like
there's the life is hard one,which is like the strong intro,
and there's three stanzas likethat uh, the second one's, life
is white and I am black.
Jesus and his lawyer are comingback right.
Andrew (08:34):
So it's like billboardable, like yeah, it's
almost like yeah, full stop.
Will (08:38):
You don't really need much more.
Right um gets a message, apowerful message across yeah and
then the third one.
Like that there's a break, onethat's like um, a, and then the
third one like that there's abreak, one that's like a little
different.
But the third one like that islife is good and I feel great
because mother says I was agreat mistake.
So it's like yeah.
Andrew (08:56):
Like you, laugh because they're clever, but then they're
sad because they are.
Will (09:00):
Yeah, yeah, and I think these in that song in particular
rhyme a little bit more to makeit sound kind of more cheeky,
okay, and I think these in thatsong in particular rhyme a
little bit more to make it soundkind of more cheeky, okay.
Yeah, it's kind of like thatBritish humor thing of like it's
even sillier written, moresilly to be, more impactful.
I got it, yeah, Because if youdon't laugh at that then it's
(09:20):
like wow.
Yeah, it just reminds me oflike that 90s style of humor too
, where it's like super heavystuff but it's all very like
tongue-in-cheek yeah there's anickelodeon-ness to it.
Andrew (09:34):
I think to be like completely obtuse and say
something like that, but likethere's a, not childish, but
like it plays in both worlds.
Right, yeah, it's, yeah, it's.
At the same time it is humorousor clever, but also deep and
dark and sad.
Will (09:50):
I think a lot of bands at that time had that quality too,
like Nirvana had that quality.
Andrew (09:54):
Yes, a lot of their songs and it's not easy to do
right.
It might be easy to do intheory, but to really nail that
balance and do two things almostsimultaneously, I think is
lyrically quite difficult.
Will (10:11):
Yeah, almost simultaneously, I think is, yeah
, lyrically quite difficult,yeah, yeah.
And like, like I said, thelater stuff goes more into like
the saturday morning type vibewhere like there was a record
called hombre lobo wolfman, andlike there's just one song where
it's just like half howling,like he's just howling for half
of it, um, but it's a really funsong, like it's a cool rock
song, got it, uh, and he's hadlike the same lead guitarist, I
think, the entire time.
Drummer has been there theentire time.
I think the bassist has been too.
Andrew (10:33):
So it's a long-standing band?
Will (10:35):
Yeah, I mean they're they're like 30 year old friends
at least, and there's otherpeople who come into play too at
times, but, like they just allknow each other's Rhythms really
well, so the songs are alwaysreally, really tight.
Where did you see them when yousaw them last year?
Uh, metro, okay cool, yeah,they played the same night.
Fallout boy did really.
Andrew (10:55):
Yeah, fallout boy was playing at wrigley I was, yeah,
and they were playing in metroyeah, so it was kind of a funny
like dichotomy of right peoplewho's where?
Will (11:04):
well, the whole street.
Like I've never seenwrrigleyville like this.
But it was just like I did anymo grown emo kids yeah so like
there were 30 and 40 year oldpeople with emo hair, and then
there was like five peopleoutside the Eels show and I love
, I love.
Andrew (11:18):
I think it's because we're getting older, but and so
is the music we like, right, andso it's surprising to see
trends carry forward, but ourbodies and our minds age, yeah,
yeah, but like some things justdon't change, like dyed hair and
I mean it was definitelypresent that night.
Will (11:36):
Like, like I said, like I remember leaving that show and
then fallowboy was playing late,okay, and I just heard like
their hits on the way back tothe train.
Yeah, fallout boy was playinglate, okay, and I just heard
like their hits on the way backto the train, yeah, and I was
like wow, this is like reallyold stuff now, like 20 year old
stuff, yeah, yeah, um, has itbeen 20 years?
Is that right, or is it morelike 15, since?
Andrew (11:56):
when 90s, since the fallout boy hits like, oh, it's
probably been 20 years orsomething, yeah, yeah, it could
be right, could be longer, yeahyeah, that was early 2000s right
yeah, I mean it was popularwhen I was in high school too, I
guess.
Will (12:10):
So 20 years is caught right, and there's chicago
stands too, so I'm sure a falllove boy concert here is more
popular than a lot of placesyeah, they are international
stars.
Yeah, yeah, um, but it also isfunny to see like the eels doing
something still alongside themand like the people who were
there was a great show, likethey had a good time.
(12:32):
We had a good time.
Andrew (12:33):
Uh, there's just a different vibe I guess, yeah,
like they're older or just older.
Yeah, like I guess.
I guess you're comparing thevibe to back then.
Right, seeing them back then.
Will (12:47):
I guess I'm comparing the vibe to hundreds of thousands of
people being at the Fall OutBoy show Got it and a couple
hundred at the Eels show when atthe time they were both on MTV.
I see Interesting yeah.
And yeah, I think the Eels guysare a little bit older than the
Fall Out Boy people, butthey're still relevant.
(13:09):
One of their new Music videoshad Jon Hamm in it, like it was
pretty much just starting him.
Andrew (13:15):
That's cool.
Yeah, interesting, I had noclue.
They uh.
I Think I wanted to ask, like,is the music that you said they
came out with them last year,right yeah?
Will (13:27):
Yeah, anyone lyrically.
Andrew (13:29):
It's still like nothing's really changed about
the efficiency and the?
I Guess the style right.
You said the music is old.
Style always changes a littlebit.
Yeah, and the?
I guess the style right.
You said the music is open.
The style?
Will (13:37):
always changes a little bit.
But yeah, nothing about likethe kind of smart lyrics, the
clever.
Andrew (13:43):
Quick quips.
Quick and clever, that's good.
I think that's the style thatlike enhances a band like this.
It has to be yeah, and it'spretty timeless too.
It's cool.
Will (13:56):
But I mean this it has to be.
Yeah, it's pretty timeless too,like it's cool.
But I mean he can write, youknow, heartbreakers and stuff,
like, like I said, there weresome shows and there were some
songs and shows and movies, kindof like the never came for the
soul song, where it's like aboutsomething specific and kind of
heart-wrenching.
Um, I think it probably stillhas that indie quality to it
where it's like, oh, it's anindie band in a movie or
whatever.
Yeah, like I think spoon hasthat quality too where, like, a
(14:17):
lot of people have heard spoonsongs but they don't know who
spoon is.
Yeah, that's one of those bands.
Yeah, because, like, they havea bunch of songs that have been
um, distributed in shows andstuff.
Andrew (14:27):
But it's where the music is shown out of context of the
artist, meaning like someonehears the song in a commercial
or tv or wherever it is and theynot thinking it's not in a way
where you're supposed to thinkabout the music like who wrote
that.
It's more like the music isserving something else.
There's bands like that whoseem to write music that falls
into that space easily.
Will (14:46):
Yeah.
Andrew (14:46):
Yeah, Fly like an Eagle, like for the USPS, like, oh
well, I mean, that was a hugesong at the time.
Yeah, a huge song, but then itwas a USPS commercial.
Yeah, and it fit perfectly.
Will (15:00):
Yeah, there's something they said about writing music
that fits well into that space,but also is something you didn't
write for that you know Exactly.
Andrew (15:05):
Yeah, yeah, I found that interesting Lyrically, like it
checks out I'm sure if you diginto it, into all the albums,
you can just find stanza afterstanza of just bangers.
Will (15:21):
Oh, yeah, there's tons of singles too.
When I look back at it I'msurprised they've never done a
Greatest Hits record.
I mean, they probably wouldn'tbe opposed to that.
But yeah, there's just a lot ofsingles that were on the radio
play for a long time or in showswhat's his vocal performance
like?
Andrew (15:37):
is it?
Will (15:38):
uh, he kind of has it's kind of a rock quality of voice,
but it's like raspy old manvoice is like the best way to
describe it I guess.
Um, like, I can sing that wayif I have to, but it hurts my
voice to do it.
Andrew (15:54):
There's always a.
There's always a method toprojecting your voice Correctly
as to not hurt yourself.
Well, I'm not sure if hefollows that method or not, but
some don't yeah.
Will (16:04):
Yeah, but that's funny to me too, like quality of voice
and how people get popular thatway, like I Never in a million
years would have guessed theNational would be a popular band
, because it's just monotone,low, like droning, sad songs,
right, I think they're householdfame now, I mean, you could
write.
Andrew (16:23):
You could write the greatest lyrics and be the worst
singer and we know exactly whatI'm talking about like yeah,
yeah, but uh, and still be great, like legendary great, yeah, I
mean, bob dylan is probably themost famous for that.
That's's exactly what I'mtalking about.
Tom Waits is who I thought youwere talking about, though no,
no, bob Dylan.
Like you know, divisive singingsound Like the way he sings
(16:45):
kind of rubs some people's earsthe wrong way.
But most people agree that thesongs are written and the lyrics
are written so well.
Yeah, and seeing him fail likedoing electric songs and people
hating him.
Every great fails and I thinkthat the true greats, they must
have the greatest failures to bethe true greats.
Will (17:07):
Yeah, I mean he didn't fail himself.
But songs are great songs still.
But that first performance atthe Folk Festival he got booed
offstage and people were tryinglike hated it, yeah, but I mean
those people were wrong clearly.
Andrew (17:28):
Well, the verse is true too, for, like you could have,
you might be a terrible lyricistand not write anything great,
but you could have the greatestvoice in the world.
You just sing other people'slyrics.
Will (17:36):
Yeah, I do wonder if there's something to say about
is it better to have a killervoice and let people do the work
behind you, or is it better tobe an awesome songwriter and
musician but not have the chopsfor vocals?
Andrew (17:52):
or compositions maybe.
Will (17:54):
I think it's a great question, but it's also
impossible to answer yeah yeah,I mean, you see it sometimes
with, like how the best popsingers don't write a lot of
their songs.
Yeah, um, I mean, I'm sure somewould take issue with that,
like some do.
Andrew (18:07):
Some do write their songs, some don't.
Will (18:09):
Yeah but, like you know, like I mean even musical parts,
like I was listening to a videothe other day um, the toxic, the
britney spears song, okay, yeahand uh, the all the backing
vocals and or the backing tracksand everything were written by
all these different people.
Right, and like, the bass linefor that song is really
interesting because it soundslike a bass synth, okay, but
(18:32):
it's a, a bass with some sort ofaffected sound that makes it
sound like a synth.
Andrew (18:38):
And there's this, you know, studio bassist who wrote
it's like a person playing, asopposed to just programmed.
Yeah, well, and they came upwith the whole composition.
That's a really weird,interesting composition for bass
.
Will (18:49):
Yeah, on a song like that, but there's tons of superheroes
like that who do that work allthe time yeah, it's not.
Andrew (18:55):
If do it, it won't rule you out no, necessarily yeah, I
mean best case scenario.
Will (19:00):
it makes you a famous session musician.
Andrew (19:04):
Absolutely, yeah.
Yeah, I guess people gethyper-focused on.
Do people get hyper-focused onlyrics and vocal performance?
I think in most cases, yes.
I think people like to be ableto sing along to songs?
Yes, so I think they focus onthat.
It's the hookiest element, it'sthe closest Relatable sound,
(19:24):
because it's the sound of ahuman.
Will (19:25):
Yeah, yeah but I do find myself drawn to like unique
vocals.
Andrew (19:31):
My specialty?
Yeah, it just I mean it.
Something that that is, I meantom waits is different, yeah,
and if it, fits your musicalityexactly like tom wait's vocals
fit his tracks exactly.
It makes sense for what he'sdoing, yeah, and what he's
saying, glenn hansard is one too.
Will (19:46):
um, do you know him like?
No, he did like the music foronce, that movie that was
popular.
Uh, his former band was calledthe Frames, but he also plays
really interestingly too, likeguitar.
So his pairing I couldn't seeit any other way.
But then you have, on the otherhand, like a band like Bell and
(20:07):
Sebastian, where they're veryvocal forward but they kind of
pull from like funk and discofor their tracks and have a lot
of different kind of backing.
So I could see those disjointed, like they could probably have
different backing and sound fine.
Andrew (20:22):
Yeah.
So, yeah, I mean, it doesn'tmatter either way If people
focus on the vocals or theydon't.
If you get that out of music,that's great, but I think vocals
are obviously very important.
Lyrics then fall somewhere inline.
I don't think lyrics are allthe time, or even most of the
(20:44):
time, the most important thingabout a song, at least as people
think about them.
Regular people think about them, yeah.
Will (20:50):
I mean, I like having lyrics that I can dig into.
That's why I like Be lyricsthat I can dig into.
That's why I like the Olsen somuch is because they have a way
with words, they know what theirsongs are and they can lean
into that dichotomy ofseriousness and playfulness at
the same time.
Andrew (21:09):
Yeah, they found an artistic edge.
They found how Dr Seuss foundan edge.
Yeah, like a way ofcommunicating that seems so easy
.
I mean, until you realize, whenyou try to do it consistently
and creatively, it's actuallynot easy yeah, or if you try to
do it, do it from scratch, yeah,yeah, I'll come up with a fresh
idea, exactly, yeah, but I likeI appreciate that about the way
(21:33):
those those lyrics sounded isthat they just, you know they're
everything I you know they'replayful but also really sad,
yeah, and fucked up.
Will (21:41):
Yeah, that kind of sums it up.
Andrew (21:43):
Yeah, juicy the eels, juicy stuff.
Will (21:48):
Juicy eels, yeah.
So I guess that's kind of all Igot.
Andrew (21:52):
I like it.
That's good.
We learned something, I learnedsomething.
Will (21:55):
I learned something, I experienced a Cool way of
writing lyrics, yeah and yeah, Ihope to apply this to my own
lyric writing yeah, what youdoing by myself, it's next.
I said, hey, man, what youdoing by myself?
A big fatty's hitting one boy.
(22:21):
I said, hey, man, what youdoing by myself, it's next.
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