November 26, 2023 • 46 mins
Ever been to a live concert that you'll forever carry in your heart? That's the kind of reminiscing we'll be doing today!
First, Will takes us back to an unforgettable Rilo Kiley show during the More Adventurous tour. It was more than just a concert: it was an experience complete with a pirate band opening act and atmosphere that blurred the lines between fantasy and reality. They say the charm of Rilo Kiley is in their authenticity and the timelessness of their music, so we discuss just that. We also delve into the cathartic journey of Rilo Kiley's young musicians gaining Hollywood's attention.
Then, Andrew shifts the gears a bit, introducing funeral doom band Bell Witch, a drummer and bassist duo who are intimately versed in the style's somber and meditative penchant. The band suffered a great loss when their original drummer passed away, an important theme in their most prominent full-length "Mirror Reaper," an atmospheric and devastating listen that demands patience but rewards quite unlike anything else out there.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Andrew (00:19):
Welcome to Sound Sagas Episode 2.
This is our first deep diveepisode.
Will and I have each selected aband that represents a space or
a type of music that we arevery tied to.
We have personal experiencewith these bands that we want to
share as well.
We've each picked somethingthat's important to us and we're
(00:40):
open to share them with you.
We're going to do a two-parterhere.
Will's going to go first withthe band that he selected, talk
in depth, and then we'll followup with my selection.
We'll do some talk about.
Will (00:53):
We'll see how it turns out .
Andrew (00:54):
Obviously very different taste here, but that's kind of
the beauty of it you getsomething from two very
different areas of music.
Who did you end up selectingfor today?
Will (01:05):
Well, I picked Rilo Kiley, a pretty impactful band for me.
We definitely want to hear fromyou all in the comments about
bands that have been impactfulfor you you might want to hear
about.
Don't forget to do that.
I started with them a long timeago, middle school, high school
(01:27):
.
One of my friends turned me onto them I think right after the
Execution of All Things era,check my name.
Andrew (01:40):
What year was that around?
Will (01:42):
That was around 2002.
That was the one previous.
I got started with that one andthen went into More Adventurous
, which was 2004.
That one I really hooked on tothis was back at that time right
.
Right.
Andrew (02:01):
It was released in 2004.
You were experiencing these asthey came out Great.
Will (02:06):
That's always the best.
The show that was mostimpactful for me that I saw them
was on the more adventuroustour.
That was just super cool.
I talked about it with peoplein the industry as an entry to
some internship jobs.
I wrote the story down.
It was basically this supercool venue in Tallahassee where
(02:29):
I'm from, in Florida, at themoon.
At the time it used to be thisreally cool black dancing club
way back when they kind ofrefurbished it once it fell out
of use and became a music venue.
This real memories I get fromit are like in that venue when
(02:53):
peopleit was still smokingindoors too at that time.
Andrew (02:55):
It was worth mentioning.
Will (02:57):
Thank God that went away.
Yeah, I agree, but if yousmoked in there it would rise to
the ceiling and make this cloudin the middle.
Then there were wraparounds forthe balcony and the bars.
I remember looking through thesmoke at the stage and seeing a
very cool like picker-esque kindof montage of the band playing.
Andrew (03:18):
It sounds like there was some atmosphere to this whole
experience.
Will (03:21):
It was very atmosphere, almost like it was meant to be a
little bit Kind of.
It was very fortuitous.
The interesting thing too wasthe opening band was a pirate
band Doing sea shanties beforethat was popular.
Andrew (03:34):
Like serious pirate band or joke pirate band.
They were pretty serious Stageprops and everything.
I think there was some humor toit.
Will (03:42):
They were very clearly supposed to be pirates singing
about pirate stuff, Amazing.
Yeah, I don't know where theyfound them or how they got on
that tour, but it was super funGoing into the band a little bit
.
The version I saw was JennyLewis, Blake Sennet, Piere
DeReeder and Jason Bosel.
The previous drummer was DaveRock, who was on the recordings
(04:08):
in all the other iterations ofthe band.
All consummate musicians,really good at their craft.
It was really like kind of a.
They all started really youngand kind of played through their
teen years doing tours andstuff.
So they were all really greatmusicians, great storytellers,
Like Jenny Lewis and BlakeSennet, which switch off singing
(04:29):
songs.
Blake Sennet had a really greatsong on More Adventurous called
Rip Chord, where he did kind ofhis style, and then Ginny has
some great ones on there as well.
She is the main singer.
They've all kind of gone on todo interesting things in music
since the band too, which Ialways thought was really cool.
(04:52):
Some artists don't.
Yeah some call it quits, andthen that era is over.
Andrew (04:57):
That time is done.
Will (04:59):
Sounds like Riley Kiley was an expression of them then
and when right Very much so, andthe reason they cite for
breaking up is they were justall so tired.
Andrew (05:11):
Like that's totally the fairest.
You couldn't get fairer thanthat, honestly, yeah.
Will (05:16):
Like they burned bright and burned out, but they all
kind of continued their otherstuff Like.
Jenny has a very successfulsolo career.
I'm seeing her Friday, actuallythis week.
Jason, I believe he's drummingin other bands.
I actually must up on him.
Blake Sennet went on to farmthe elected with another great
(05:36):
guitarist, get Piere to Reederhas a record label, little
record company, and he actuallyhas put out a bunch of stuff for
them their first EP, which isreally their first record,
initial friend, which is rightthere was put out as a
(05:58):
re-release on the Reader's labellittle record company Gotcha.
It originally was like a seriesthe few pressings of CDs.
I'm not sure if they actuallydid vinyl back then, but I know
they did CDs and the wayPitchfork tells it is Dave Foley
of Kids in the Hall fame helpedfinance part of that.
(06:19):
Cause he saw them in LA.
They were all an LA band and hewas like blown away and it was
like I need to like get this tomore people.
And so that's from what what Iran Pitchfork would happen, how
they got that off the ground,evan.
Years later, it still has afollowing.
I mean there's some songs onthere that were in TV shows and
movies.
They had a very good like kindof relationship in Hollywood
(06:41):
with other media.
I think that's part of whatburned them out too, like Jenny
was a child actor was a childactor.
Andrew (06:48):
Kind of doing the full gamut of like expression with
the band not just writing musicbut being part of other pieces
of art.
Will (06:54):
Definitely.
I felt more of a catharsisthing for them too, which kind
of gives the vibe that comesacross with it, which is so
interesting too.
It's kind of like a reflective,deeper indie rock vehicle than
a lot of stuff was at the timeGotcha, and I feel this when I
hear it too.
Andrew (07:13):
What specifically about Rilo Kiley, whether in the early
, early era of their music orlater?
Like drew you to that music,like.
Why do you like this band somuch?
Will (07:24):
So I also was a fan of like the Midwest kind of stuff
that was happening then andbefore then with Saddle Creek.
A lot of my favorite bands arefrom there Bright Eyes, the
Faint, Nina Devanna so they kindof got folded into that mix.
Jenny put out a split single.
They released one of therecords.
(07:48):
So there was a relationshipthere that I knew about and then
just how honest and expressiveit was.
There's not a lot of music thatsounds just like it.
There's a lot of music that iskind of inspired by.
Okay, Like Bethany Cosettinofrom Best Coast has cited Rilo
Kiley as a huge impression, ahuge influence on her music and
(08:10):
her band, and I know there's alot of other bands out there
like that you can kind of hearit in.
Like Wax to Hatchy and likeKitty Crutchfield that sort of
music as well.
But yeah, it just feels so like.
Andrew (08:21):
Is there like an authenticity to it, almost so
authentic yeah?
Will (08:24):
And you can still hear that in songs like Better, son
and Daughter.
A lot of them just haven't,will not age.
They kind of sing about stuffthat everyone talks about.
Andrew (08:34):
Yeah a timelessness that I think all great music has to
have, Totally Not that.
All great music that istimeless.
So now that all music istimeless, it has to be great,
but I think all great music hasto have some timeless element to
it, right yeah?
Will (08:45):
it definitely has that element of like timelessness to
it.
There's also since they wereall like I don't know how they
were so good, so young, butsince they're so good at what
they were doing really soundslike it could come from
different ages.
Andrew (09:00):
Like the Frug, which is a song on Initial Friend, is a
mock of like those old songsthat were about like dances, so
it's almost like they were young, but they had the wisdom almost
of older age maybe.
Will (09:13):
It seems like it, but they were clearly.
They clearly didn't.
Maybe that's the magic of it,right?
Andrew (09:17):
Yeah, it was definitely a magic.
That's a good description ofhow maybe it sounds.
Will (09:21):
Yeah.
Andrew (09:22):
Like timeless and familiar, but still new, and
like young, right, right.
Will (09:26):
Yeah, and I think that's a hard thing to recapture or
capture in the first place.
Yes, I know they probably don'twant to go back to anything
like that.
I mean, I know for certain GeneLewis doesn't Blixson.
It kind of did with the elected, but I don't think he does
anything like that anymore.
Andrew (09:45):
So the later projects of the artists involved in the
band are not really reflectiveExactly yeah, which is
interesting yeah.
I mean, a lot of artists have,like, a huge variation in how
they can express themselvesmusically and I think it's
interesting when artists go fromone style to another right.
And you see a lot of this and alot of music right, like
artists jumping different spots.
(10:07):
Totally, I love it, yeah, yeahabsolutely, and Jenny's solo
records.
Will (10:13):
There's a lot to talk about there.
That's another episode, though,but they all kind of change
pretty drastically, like Iremember listening to the
Voyager when it came out withyou.
Andrew (10:24):
First time I heard that with you was fantastic.
Yeah, it's just like greatmoody music.
Will (10:30):
I'm not sure what the mood is.
I mean it's kind of sad, butit's not.
Her latest is kind of almost anantithesis to that.
Andrew (10:37):
Where like.
Will (10:38):
Voyager was very like introspective and sad kind of,
but not wordy.
And this one new one, Joy All,is kind of rehashing what it
means to be happy and like trulyjoyous.
Andrew (10:49):
Is there an introvert, extrovert element to why you
appreciate this band?
Are they both inward andoutward?
I'm not sure.
Will (10:57):
Okay, I'm not sure.
I think there could be, yeah,but it is very like music for
introverts, I think.
Andrew (11:06):
Her solo stuff is not as much.
Okay.
Will (11:10):
But I definitely feel that way about Rilo Kiley Gotcha,
although More Adventurous is themost, and Blacklight are
probably the most extrovertedsounding records, but they're
not by any measure likeextroverted sort of like they
can be.
I mean, Blacklight has a couplesongs that are very punchy, so
maybe there is a dynamic thereof like.
Andrew (11:29):
I think bands and especially the indie space that
can like be expressive but alsolike be vocal about, I guess
whatever they're singing aboutor the style of music, can be
very like like, I guess, outwardfeeling but have like very deep
inward messages where you haveto sit and focus by yourself to
really dig into the album.
Will (11:48):
I definitely think there's an element of that in there.
Yeah, and for More Adventurous,the most popular song in their
portions for Foxes, it has thatsame kind of dichotomy of like
it's kind of a serious song butit's done in this very like
poppy fun way, yeah, and that'strue of a lot of their music.
(12:09):
So it's yeah, it's a little bitof both.
Andrew (12:13):
It's a good mixture.
Do you think Riley Kiley is?
You wouldn't call it sad music.
Will (12:18):
Some of it I would.
Yeah, it's not like ElliottSmith.
Okay, you know what I mean,yeah, and even he joked about
Elliott Smith, joked about howhe's not trying to make sad
songs.
He just that's the songs he'smaking.
And Phoebe Ridgers has had thatproblem too, where, like, she
makes sad girl music but it'snot, that's just the music that
she wants to make.
(12:38):
Gotcha, I don't think.
A lot of her songs are aboutpersonal experiences.
Andrew (12:43):
I mean.
Will (12:43):
I'm sure some of them are.
But yeah, it's interesting thatway we're like you can tell
when some people are putting onan artifice, but if you can't
tell, that kind of frustratespeople more and then they just
assume it's not.
Andrew (12:57):
Yeah, that's a good point.
Actually Like that.
This comes back to theauthenticity and it's hard for
bands to like you can't just sitthere and think like let's be
authentic, right, it's a matterof practice and how you do and
how you perform.
Will (13:09):
And if you do sit there and think that it's very obvious
that you don't?
Andrew (13:12):
It is almost obvious that you're trying.
You see this a lot in heavymetal.
We'll get into this in the nextsegment.
But like, try hardism, likebeing as like as possible, goes
so far but goes very littlesometimes.
Will (13:27):
No, I agree.
Yeah, this band soundseffortless almost rather Kylie,
but I also don't like that word.
Andrew (13:33):
Oh, yeah, okay.
Will (13:33):
It takes a lot of effort to do that.
Andrew (13:35):
Okay, yeah, yeah, I was meaning more of like when you
consume the final album, whenyou, when you, when you hear the
music played out, it almostfeels like they were made to do
it.
Will (13:44):
It does feel effortless, effortless, yeah, but by no
measure is any good musiceffortless.
Andrew (13:48):
No, I'm sure they were their brains trying to do a lot
of it.
Well they're very goodmusicians as well.
Like that's part of it, right.
Will (13:54):
Yeah.
Andrew (13:54):
And their technicality doesn't get in the way of.
Will (13:57):
No, it's, it's funny too, cause I mean, I think between
Jenny and Blake they were kindof the leads, with Ginny being
the clear lead but they kind offought being the leader a little
bit a nd Piere de Reeder otherder and Jason Boswell or Dave
Rock.
It never comes through that.
They were trying to like be thestar Gotcha, which I think
helped the band a ton becausethey were just like a solid,
(14:20):
solid back then.
It's like band dynamic, yeah,yeah, right.
There are even some songs onarchives that like last record
that they put out, which is justa collection of songs which
anyone getting into them.
I would actually recommend that,even though it's like the
cutting room floor.
Yeah, it's a really goodretrospective of like everything
.
Okay, so it gives you like afull picture, almost Right, yeah
(14:42):
, and if you're a music fanparticularly, it gives you some
insights.
They dug through a lot of oldstuff, like all those photos on
the cover, fan photos that weresubmitted, I believe.
Okay, they made a video for thesong Let Me Back In, which is
about LA and like has a bunch ofbands submitted stuff, cool.
But I'll let's say, yeah,derrida and Dave Rock and Bozel
(15:05):
all knew like kind of where theywere going.
But there's a song on thatrecord that they cut, probably
from the more of interest areawhere Derrida was actually
singing and had a more frontcenter role which they I'm sure
they all kind of played aroundwith each other playing the
front leads for a while.
Andrew (15:24):
Right, but tested the waters almost yeah, but they
just decided we don't.
Will (15:28):
this one doesn't really fit in the other ones, and I
don't know.
It's good, it's good to seethat that stuff was made, even
though those weren't the choices.
Andrew (15:35):
Even the concept of that album of being like a
retrospective or a whole picture, but made up of cutting room
floor.
It's the concept that we arestill the parts we don't put
into the music, right.
Totally yeah, and just how muchexactly exactly how maybe
prolific they were in writingand practicing.
Will (15:52):
Yeah.
Andrew (15:54):
Yeah, I like bands that have the obvious effort put into
it.
Right, and you said fanssubmitted, so they like paid
attention to their fans too,right?
Will (16:04):
That's another thing that helps them a lot is they have
some pretty devoted fans.
Great Like, with that packagethey also released a cassette
that has their demos on it,which is very listenable.
Like I love that cassette and Imean I actually want to mention
too I'll put the let me back invideo in the description for
people want to watch it.
Yeah, but the reader I mean, healso has all this other stuff
(16:26):
that he's doing on the sidewhere, like, like, tim Heidecker
makes music the guy from Timand Eric, yeah, and he's
actually a great artist and putsout all his records.
So I think he I mean I wastrying to look up when he
started Little Record Company isin print, but I think he was
doing that for a lot of theirhistory.
So he was probably archivingall this stuff to like kind of
(16:46):
save for later, which is anotherthing that takes another kind
of level of insight.
It does, yeah.
Andrew (16:53):
It's almost there's an art to like, it's almost like
the art element to like.
Releasing andcompartmentalizing your artistic
effort into albums anddifferent releases, that sort of
give people the picture of whatyou're trying to do To just
release your music really nearly.
And some demos like, some demosthat you get like, are pretty
rough, right, right, like in theworld out there, in the demo,
(17:14):
in the demo collecting area inthe in the demo collecting area.
Oh yeah, I mean when I workedat the label.
Will (17:19):
Like we literally had a mail bin full of demos and we we
didn't make time for anyone outthere who's demos to listen to
all of them, like it was aninterns job to go through put
them all in and then if acertain amount of people voted
it down, it went in the bin, butif a certain amount of people
said yes, it went up theflagpole.
Like they found some artiststhat way.
Andrew (17:39):
Yeah.
Will (17:40):
So I mean it was kind of funny, though, like CDs, we
didn't pay as much attention tovinyl.
We've always paid moreattention to cassettes.
We paid more attention to it.
Totally depends on the label,but hot tip right there.
Andrew (17:51):
Yeah.
Will (17:52):
But it's worth submitting stuff like that.
The Obox is still.
Andrew (17:55):
Yeah.
Will (17:55):
Yeah, and that actually reminds me too, like that would
be like if I produced a demo forpotential record deal.
That'd be like a dream cometrue.
To make a demo that's like likesomeone plays it and they're
like, oh shit, right, right.
But Weezer has a story likethat where, oh really, yeah, I
forget who the producer was, butMatt Sharp, the original
(18:16):
bassist for Weezer, gave him atape because he was like doing
some job for him, like unrelatedto music, and he like sat on it
for a couple of weeks but thenstill had it.
It was like, oh, there's a niceguy, I'll listen to it.
And he like blew away and hecalled him and said I was like
oh man, what I like.
I think he was with Sweater Song.
Yeah, he said that about.
Andrew (18:34):
Even if the band that you're whoever band you're
talking about even if they don'tlike, have that element of like
immediately getting blownpeople away right, Like a, a, a
wonder story, like that youcould, the band can still
harness that energy of like.
You can feel that they'rereaching a point where they're
going to try to blow you away,Right.
Will (18:52):
I feel like.
Andrew (18:53):
Riley Kelly for you and like as a band that you really
really like is probably blowingyou away on a couple of
occasions.
Will (18:58):
Absolutely yeah.
I'd be curious to see if I justblind gave that cassette to
some people, what they thought,because the cassette of their
demos kind of blows me away Likeif I don't think about the
context.
Yeah.
Andrew (19:09):
Nice and, like I guess you mentioned the time where you
saw them in Florida in theearly 2000s yeah, in the moon.
Any other experiences sincethen?
That was the only time I caughtthem as a group.
I've seen Ginny.
Will (19:22):
Lewis a lot more since then.
Gotcha, I wish I'd caught BlakeSennet when he was in the
elective.
They were a sub pop band, sothere's a couple of records on
sub pop and they have some greatsongs.
And they have some great songs.
It does come off kind ofsimilar to some of his Rila
Kiley stuff.
So, like I said, that wasprobably the most reflective,
(19:44):
and I think I'm probablymisremembering this, but I think
his guitarist is toured withJenny before too.
Like everyone in LA kind ofhelps each other out a lot Like
it's a scene, Like at least forthis kind of music.
But yeah, just Jenny Lewis alot since then.
Maybe a reunion show veryunlikely yeah.
Andrew (20:02):
Never want to count on it, but you never know these
days.
Will (20:04):
Yeah, and if they did, would it?
Andrew (20:07):
be good, you never know.
I've heard no inklings.
I think it would be.
Will (20:10):
I think they could get back to a pretty good game.
Ok, and Jenny Lewis has neverleft the game, so Gotcha, yeah,
it'd be interesting.
Andrew (20:19):
Yeah, it's funny for me to engage with this style of
music because I love thesinger-songwriter aspect of it,
like, especially with JennyLewis, the.
A lot of indie rock that Iencounter has, like I don't know
, like a happier timber or likea happier kind of like or more
(20:40):
upbeat swing a lot.
Like you know it's based in.
Will (20:43):
like you know it's based in rock and roll, like I guess I
think that was true of a lot ofindie rocks when we were in
school too, yeah, and I think inmy sense my exposure has been
limited.
Andrew (20:54):
I'm not able to like and this might be even an
interesting perspective on RileyKeiley.
I'm not able to situate themamong peers or bands that have
followed, that have takeninspiration, or bands that Riley
Keiley took inspiration from.
Like, I'm not able tocontextualize them, but I think
having that perspective isactually an interesting one
because you're fresh.
Yeah, Like you kind of hear themusic without the noise around
(21:16):
it.
Will (21:17):
I agree.
Andrew (21:18):
And I like, I clearly like what I hear, like it has.
There is an authenticity to itthat that I think a lot of indie
might try to achieve, becausethat's a key part, I think, of
indie.
Rock is like that level ofsincerity.
But it's hard to like nail thatwithout trying, or looking like
you're trying, or exactly beinga little stilted sometimes.
Will (21:39):
Never got that feel from Rilo Kiley Especially being that
young, I mean I kind of wish Icould see them play as like the
teens that they were and seelike, oh, like.
This is like, clearly in workin progress.
Andrew (21:50):
Yeah.
Will (21:51):
But the songs didn't feel that way.
Andrew (21:53):
Yeah, which is interesting, I mean it's
interesting that like age is abig thing too, like being young
and like having a band that like.
There's some bands in mycircles where, like the, some of
the musicians are like under 21.
They're like still under teensand I don't know doesn't
necessarily make a difference,but like it can, like maybe some
energy.
If you're touring, it makes adifference.
Will (22:14):
It's okay, yeah, physically absolutely.
Andrew (22:16):
Absolutely, and then that translates to the quality
of the live shows of, obviously,and everything Right.
Will (22:21):
I mean, it really does matter for your ability to like
live in a van and set up in playshows.
Andrew (22:27):
I'm thinking like artistically like how much, how
much further an output you have.
And I'm thinking about my lifeand, yeah, I was definitely more
fervorous and had more outputwhen I was in my teens.
Will (22:37):
I think you're less afraid to talk about your feelings too
.
Andrew (22:40):
I think so, like I think the angsty.
Will (22:42):
there's some strength in angst there is.
Andrew (22:44):
There is.
There is youth, and music is ahuge topic.
I love that, like what it'slike to be young and a little
bit without regard, and how thattranslates well to music.
Totally, you can watch the bandgrow along these paths too,
which I'm sure you watched Ryleof Kylie grow.
Will (22:57):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, like you said, the youth and music
thing is real, because just tobe that unafraid, to like feel
that way about something andthat strongly, is impressive,
awesome.
Well, that's like I thinkthat's a great.
Andrew (23:11):
That's a great.
Like both description of Ryle,of Kylie, they kind of have
what's how they're situated inIraq, like what the sound and
kind of kind of mood of it is,but also your experience, like
getting into it and being partof it, like that's cool, yeah,
and I'm happy to share that withpeople and, like I said,
getting the comments, definitely.
Like, whatever, whatever you arein the music sphere, like, put
(23:31):
on some Ryle of Kylie, justcheck it out, I'm sure, check
out Good Indie Rock and I thinkyou'll be pleased.
I think it'll be amazing.
We're going to switch gears alittle bit and talk about a
different space of music.
So we're shifting from IndieRock to Funeral Doom, which I
think is a cool, a cool littletransition.
There's, yeah, good contrast.
Will (23:48):
If you think about it.
Andrew (23:49):
You could find some carryover, but it's going to be
a lot of contrast.
But what I want to describe andtalk about is the band
Bellwitch.
They are a funeral doom band.
Obviously, like I mentioned,they've been around since early
2010s, so about a decade now.
Still active.
There is their probably theirbest commercial release so far.
(24:10):
It's an album called MirrorReaper.
It's kind of noted for beingover an hour long in one single
performance or one track.
So it's almost like it's kindof like a live album where you
kind of listen to the whole set.
It's an entire set.
But there's this thematicallyand kind of musically divided
(24:31):
into three distinct segments.
Will (24:32):
You can kind of I was going to ask is it divided for
AB or it's three segments withpauses or how's it?
How's it the one track?
I think they did it.
Andrew (24:41):
So it makes sense with records, but at the same time
it's it's not a cut and thenenter back.
It's like it slows down and itgets very slow and quiet and
then builds back up into thesecond I call movements.
Will (24:53):
I was going to say it sounds very intentionally like
movements or acts.
Andrew (24:56):
Yeah, I think precisely that's the way to describe it.
Yeah, so the album as a wholeon this describes sort of how
funeral doom works.
If you're not familiar withwhat it is, it's a very slow,
low BPM sort of like.
A sort of like if you were toartistically recreate like a
real funeral dirge, you know,like that that's slow,
(25:16):
methodical, like like it's verymorose, very sad, sort of like I
call it.
Like like something like one,two, you know, even slower than
that.
Will (25:28):
Which would you call their songs dirges?
Andrew (25:30):
Yes like yeah, if you, if your casket was being carried
from the funeral home to theground where you were about to
be buried, it would be extremelyappropriate music for that.
Yeah, and this is the real liketwist to their story.
The real sort of interestingtake on their story is that one
of their founding membersthey've been a duo until
recently.
(25:51):
Now they're collaborating withanother artist, but it's always
been bass and drums, which is aninteresting dynamic for a metal
band not having a guitarist andfor the drummer to do vocals.
But what happened was theiroriginal founding member the
drummer, ended up passing awaydue to illness.
I believe they integrated someof the some of the some of the
(26:14):
the late drummers earliermaterial into this album in a
very like ghostly way, right?
I?
Will (26:20):
could see that being inappropriate in a lot of
circumstances, but for funeralbut, it seems pretty appropriate
for this one Exactly.
Andrew (26:26):
And what's what's not stilted about this is that they
were always a funeral do man andhe wasn't planning on dying
right.
Like this situation came up, itemerged and they they in part
handled the trauma by bycreating artwork with it right.
I don't want to presume thatthat was part of their trauma
(26:49):
handling process too hard, but Ido.
I'm pretty sure that there wasintentional of them including
vocals from a prior take of theof the past drummers in this
album, like I assume that wasdone as a matter of honor, but
it also was a matter of, likeyou know, coming to terms right.
(27:10):
Well, I think it's important.
Will (27:11):
The way you said it is really good.
It's important to distinguishtrauma making people feel
creatively inclined rather thanthis being a way for them to
process trauma or the traumainforming some decisions Right.
Andrew (27:28):
Because I hate the like starving artists, exactly Trope.
There's two prong.
Yeah, like you said, there'stwo prongs there, like there's
trauma that can just cause youto like distract yourself with
artistic pursuits.
But there's also artisticpursuits that help you find
peace with trauma or findsomething or find progress or
whatever it is.
But handle, handle the feeling.
Will (27:50):
Right, and this is the point being that trauma is not
necessary for art.
Exactly, but this was a goodvehicle for it, yeah.
Andrew (27:56):
But this is this and I think for Mirror Reaper
specifically, the execution ofit, being the Bell Witch is sort
of known for the minimalisttake, like I mentioned just six
string bass, a lot of tappingwith drums and the drummer is
doing vocals.
I think that minimalist sort oftake is extremely sad and
(28:18):
beautiful, Like it's one of therear instances where I think,
like almost a format or adedication to a methodology or
style is itself artistic Right.
Like to execute something ofsuch monumental beauty and
sadness with so little is almost, it's almost like a call sign
(28:39):
to sadness itself.
Will (28:40):
Like how little we have to work with.
It's a task for sure.
I'm trying to think like it's achallenge.
I mean, that sounds like achallenge to yourself.
You know almost to make thatkind of music.
Andrew (28:52):
It is To like paint, only with a few colors, not to
say that like Bell Witch soundsat all, like very compressed or
flat, like they sound extremelyrich, almost like they had 15
musicians playing this musicEven though it's so minimal,
like it just has.
That's what's the magic aboutthis album.
That's why I want people tolisten to it and see, like, what
(29:14):
they think about it.
Will (29:15):
I mean I also find in that setup of a drummer and bassist,
only those bands tend to bemore dynamic because they try to
make up for it In other ways,more creative ways.
That makes sense.
Andrew (29:27):
Especially a six string bass yeah.
That's like a decision it isyeah, absolutely, and I like how
Belwich, like they convey thetheme and the mood and how they
want you to feel or how notnecessarily prescribing how they
(29:48):
want you to feel, but like theintended feeling Exactly.
Whatever the catalyst is forthe feelings that you have when
you listen to it, I feel likethey lay it so bare and like, so
, so almost painfully bare, like.
And this brings me to anexperience I would have at
Thalia Hall down the street here, from where we're recording A
great music venue in Chicagoknown for excellent sound and a
(30:13):
great experience.
So we're also like theatmosphere is set, the theme was
set and Belwich was playingwith mono he's fantastic, by the
way, oh yeah love mono.
What a blast, full orchestra andeverything.
Oh wow.
So like a very like that was avery surging upward experience.
And then Belwich sort of takesyou and brings you down very
(30:35):
slowly.
So at that moment at that cusp,having seen mono and been real
excited about it and everything,and getting into Belwich, I was
like at the perfect, you knowwhen you've had a few drinks and
you get really good at pingpong.
But, like you can only do itwhen you balance on that.
I just had a few drinks Right.
I was on that press.
Will (30:52):
I was like you're in the groove yeah.
Andrew (30:54):
And I was doing.
I was doing show photographyfor the show as well.
So like photo pit, I kind ofhad you know that, that closer
experience to it.
But to see Belwich from thephoto pit like and get to spend
that much I guess intimate sortof out of the headspace of being
in a crowd sort of situationwith that band is perfect for
what it is because it'sextremely meditative music.
Will (31:16):
I feel like I empathize with that feeling more too,
because I've seen Ohm so manytimes.
This is where it's very similar.
Andrew (31:23):
Yep, absolutely, and I think it's more of like the
drone aspect and I think funeraldo incorporates elements of
drawing, but not purposefullyand almost has to join by nature
of it being slow.
Will (31:33):
Yeah, there are some songs that are not too, but yeah,
it's very like.
I know, it's that feeling whereyou're like, I don't want to
say like possession or something, but you're just kind of like,
you're just by the moment you'rezonked into it.
Andrew (31:49):
Yeah, we're like you're a little zonked out because,
like there's something veryatmospheric or very like what I
call it like enrapturing aboutthe music, right, and this is
like that.
This is the, this is thelanguage that Belwich speaks, is
like using as little aspossible to distract you from
the real message and that's like, ultimately, death and sadness.
Will (32:13):
Yeah, and I'm honestly kind of makes me think more
historically, like an Ohm fallsinto this thing too, where it
feels like really really oldmusic.
You know, I like I sent youthat video of that Celtic horn
the other day.
Andrew (32:27):
Yeah.
Like stuff like that, whereit's like Interesting point.
Will (32:30):
I like this music was only about ritual death or very
important events.
Andrew (32:36):
Yeah, I there, you're right at your spot on on that is
that like there is aritualistic element to at any
Belwich performance or album.
Especially me reaper, it feelsalmost like and like I mentioned
, they incorporating thefounding drummers vocals into
the, into the album.
(32:57):
I think that was like that.
That really makes it feel likea ceremony, like a ritual.
It has that and I think mostfuneral room has this.
That's important because likethat puts you into an experience
listening to this music thatmight be different than how
other music puts you intowhatever experience it does.
Right, some people are willingto go down that path, some
(33:20):
people want to taste it and somepeople aren't, aren't
interested in that's like cool.
I think a big thing will be thevocals that are the hardest
part to for people to sort ofcome to terms with.
I guess if you're not used tolike growling or low guttural
vocals, I wouldn't describeBelwich as shouty and in any
(33:40):
measure screen or I mean theyare growls but it's not like I
caught the Uga Booga right.
It's not like knuckle dragon,caveman, shit that some death
metal is right, right.
This is very like.
Will (33:57):
It's more like the Babadook.
Andrew (33:59):
If you know anything about like Tibetan throat
singing and your ears are tunedto like, hear and appreciate the
sound it makes, like it becomesbeautiful and that's the only
way I can describe it is thatyou learn to appreciate it like
you under appreciate beer, whichis bitter.
Yeah, I think you're sayingit's an acquired taste it is,
but without saying like you haveto be fancy to like it.
Will (34:20):
No, but it's like for a certain group of people.
It's very important for a lotof people that can probably
appreciate it.
Andrew (34:26):
I think so, and even if you're turned off by the vocals,
I think like mentally, you cansort of background them because
the music itself is socompelling.
The bass, especially the bass,work.
I mean, I can't discount thedrums, but the way that that
that he plays bass tapping and Ithink he's doing multiple
chords passing at the same timeI was going to ask do you know
what kind of bass he uses?
Will (34:47):
I don't.
Andrew (34:48):
There's.
I have photos of him that Itook with also like there's
online.
I'm not sure what, what heplays.
I do think he and I've seen hisrack I'm sure he, I think he
has a very very nice setup.
Will (34:59):
Yeah, I'm just curious because I know there was a lot
of like from the gear world,like Manus was a big brand for
stuff like that.
Yeah, in that vein, where it'sneeds to be a very versatile
bass, I think so.
Andrew (35:11):
It does because he's playing in a very, very
technical sort of way.
But it's funny is that in thefinal product, in the music, you
don't, you don't reallyconceive of him playing these
riffs in a very like.
If you play guitar and watchhim, you would know that that's
hard.
Will (35:27):
It doesn't sound hard.
It sounds like the music kindof transcends that.
It's drums and bass.
You're kind of not thinkingabout that.
Andrew (35:33):
Absolutely it does and like people who are metalheads
and people who know about thatwhich but haven't seen them live
.
Some of them don't even know.
It's just to to performers, toartists Right Now in they have
done a collaboration on their ona later release to include
additional members from anotherband and that's sort of a blend
(35:53):
of the two bands.
I'm okay with that.
I'm like it's pretty good.
I always go back to me reappearas my favorite Bellwitch
release.
The prior release for phantomsis a fantastic album as well.
That one's four tracks.
It's not.
It does.
Thematically, those four tracksblend very cohesively so you
get like a full listeningexperience, but it's not the one
(36:14):
single long.
Will (36:16):
So what do you recommend?
If someone wants to get into it, which ones should they start?
Andrew (36:19):
right in a mirror.
I mean, like, just sit throughit as long as you need to decide
that it's for you or not.
It starts out.
I recommend mirror because itstarts off very.
It starts on a very gradualwavelength getting going.
It starts very soft and slow.
The vocals I won't spoilanything, but the vocals and the
(36:40):
drums do hit at a hard point,kind of like a moment where they
come to their full sound.
I think that's a powerfulmoment but it could be like off
putting yeah, if you're not usedto like, all of a sudden
they're being growling and veryslow, methodical base and what
was the band they collaboratedwith on the other record?
Let me double check that.
Oh, is Ariel ruin?
(37:02):
Yeah, ariel ruin.
Okay, yeah, they collaboratedwith Aero Ruin on their second
to last release, and then theyhave a release this year that I
don't think is a collaboration,but I'm not sure it might be
just them.
But Mirror Reaper let me justconfirm that, yeah, it was 2017.
Four phantoms their priorrelease was 15, and then longing
(37:24):
, their debut 2012.
Will (37:28):
So did you yourself start with Mirror Reaper or did you
kind of come in from thebeginning?
Andrew (37:32):
I started with four phantoms and I enjoyed that
album.
It didn't showcase the type ofsongwriting that Mirror Reaper
showcased.
They switched that up.
That was an evolution.
Four phantom stuck with me.
That's a powerful album.
It is one of the unstoppablefuneral doom albums, I think.
Will (37:51):
It is funny too.
I feel like bands tend tofollow a trend of being really
intentional about theirsophomore album hitting hard.
It's probably less of a thingfor bands like this.
I think they took a risk withthis one.
Andrew (38:04):
I think this was a big risk.
Will (38:05):
This does sound like more of a sophomore vibe, even though
their second one hit reallyhard.
Andrew (38:10):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah, this being their third, I
think.
At that point it was like wehave proof of this sound being
very impactful.
And then, I think, for thisalbum, they said how can we make
it as grandiose and as big aspossible?
(38:33):
How can we expand these ideaswe came up with on four phantoms
and grow them into a big, bignarrative?
And so they end up with thisHomeric hour and 20-minute long
experience, and so for all threealbums it's all drums and bass.
Will (38:51):
Did they use any orchestral stuff or any like
synth or computer effects, or isit all drums and?
Andrew (38:58):
bass?
I believe there is.
Let me double check that.
There is a part where they use,like I mentioned, the former
drummer's vocals which becomesin as sort of like a floating
sort of atmospheric layer.
They're kind of drawn out.
Will (39:14):
Because I do like it when bands use like kind of something
unexpected to fill out the yeahand the drummer does use a
synth or a keyboard of source toadd to the mix.
Andrew (39:27):
So to say it's purely drum, bass and vocals is
slightly inaccurate.
Will (39:33):
I mean as performed it probably is.
When you listen to it, you hearit.
Andrew (39:38):
But then they also they do execute or end up using the
synth or the keyboard.
It's always like it might notalways be just one note, but it
seems like a solid, like bassline.
Is it kind of like washing?
It becomes almost the noisefloor right yeah, the background
.
So it's nothing like.
Will (39:57):
I mean.
I do like it when synths areutilized for stuff like that.
Yeah, because it's atmosphere.
Then you can add atmospherewhile not having to employ a
whole other kind of facet of theband.
Exactly, a lot of bands uselike those old omni chords and
stuff like that for that, butit's always interesting to see
how it's executed.
Andrew (40:17):
Yeah, and all of this is in the name of.
I mean, there's no two waysabout it.
There's no fucking around LikeBelwich is a band about death
and sadness.
It is a coming to that, youlisten to it and it is a funeral
dirge.
It is nothing other than that.
It's funeral doom, right.
It's very beautiful and somber,and I think combining Combining
(40:45):
rapture and combining beautywith sadness and despair so to
create like an artistic nexuswhere those two things mix is
like mixing more than water.
Right, but they do it with alevel of artistry and a level of
simplicity that I think isextremely noteworthy.
Will (41:02):
Do you think that's what drew you to them originally?
Like just that kind of powerfulsynthesis of those two things.
Andrew (41:09):
Just the ability to say so much was so little was
impactful on itself.
And then just the Again thereal content about death and
sadness, Like it's there andit's real in life and you can
reflect to it with this realmusic.
I think both of those thingsdrew me to it immediately,
Definitely my favorite funeraldoom band, and that definitely
(41:30):
is my favorite funeral doomalbum.
Will (41:33):
Cool yeah, do you think there?
I mean, I feel like I just said, do you think that?
Do you think there are otherbands that they either
influenced or were influenced by, like what's kind of a realm of
this?
Andrew (41:44):
It's hard to say because , like funeral, doom is just not
a populated space.
Will (41:48):
Yeah.
Andrew (41:50):
It's To be a funeral doom band means you are nothing
but funeral doom and I thinkthere's a Because you have to
play so slow generally and youhave to like adopt a style that
does not translate to most othermetal types.
Like you can be thrash anddeath and black metal at the
same time.
Like you can write an albumcohesively.
That is those three things.
(42:11):
But to be funeral doom, it'shard to be other things.
Now there's like there's deathdoom and other forms of doom,
but funeral doom that inclusionof the word funeral basically
locks it into a specific soundor a style.
So it's pretty gated, I thinkthis one.
Will (42:29):
I do like how your journalism background is showing
through here a little bit,where you're like these are the
terms, here are the bands,because I kind of come from the
opposite perspective where, like, I don't usually think of those
terms first when I think of thebands, because they're all made
up terms by journalists theyare, they absolutely are.
Andrew (42:47):
It fits in a bigger subgenre of just doom, which can
include stoner doom and othersorts of music that you would
listen to side by side and knowthat they're completely
different.
But hey, this just comes fromlistening to a lot of metal,
this might sound similar to alot of heavy stuff to some
people, so it just depends onwhere you come from.
Will (43:06):
So I'm all for that contextuality.
Andrew (43:08):
right of categories, but I'll be guilty as much as still
use them to describe things.
Will (43:13):
I mean, it's not a thing to feel good or bad about, no,
no, so the way we're going to,understand how they sort of come
to.
Yeah, we have to use our wordsto talk about it.
Andrew (43:21):
It's important to have words to talk about them with
and, as you guys can tell, Ihave many about, about Bill Wich
and Mary, for I think, likejust to sum up like kind of how
how I relate to this album is,like you know, I a lot, of, a
lot of heavy music and a lot oflike intense sort of music that
(43:42):
goes downward, I mean likeemotionally, like sadness, anger
touches on hard to touchemotions.
Exactly, I think like there's acouple of ways to do it, and
metal sometimes does it rightand wrong, just like other
genres.
But this is this, is it doneright?
Like this is this, I think,goes beyond heavy metal.
This album Like that's.
my final point on it is thattranscends the kind of genre I
(44:04):
think you can not care or knowanything about heavy metal or
want no interest, but I thinkyou should.
I think anyone who at leastwants to have an opinion on
heavy metal has to listen.
Listen to an album like this orthis one to know what they're
talking about.
At least have the chance tounderstand that, like this, a
lot of the stereotypes areclearly wrong.
(44:25):
But but like, even deeper thanthat, that that metal can do
something that maybe some othergenres have trouble doing, or,
like you, can get you toemotional spaces that other
genres don't have the materialfor, the space for.
Will (44:40):
Right, and this depends on the person, of course, but yeah
, I mean.
There's power in that to beable to touch untouchable
emotions.
This is all about trying newthings.
Andrew (44:48):
This is all about putting effort into trying new
things is like, is like beingokay with going somewhere you
haven't been before, so yeah,that's what soundsog is is all
about.
That's what it's all about islistening to funeral dooms about
the end times.
But but now I overall what theimpression that that album
leaves me with is one of beauty,like one of one of incredible
(45:12):
beauty.
It's like an honor to someone'slife as well.
Remember, there's like apositive element to this Totally
that that, even though thedrummer passed away, like that
drummer, that that artist'scontribution lives beyond what
he saw right.
Will (45:26):
Yeah, and in a way.
Andrew (45:27):
yeah, he would appreciate it in a way, and this
not not an unpopular album inmetal spaces either.
This, this album hit hard likepeople.
It made ways, and for goodreason, because it's it's a big
one.
Will (45:38):
Yeah, yeah.
Andrew (45:39):
Well, it's a big drop in the bucket.
Will (45:41):
Yeah, thank you for sharing this.
I'm sure a lot of people checkthat out.
We'll also throw a couple linksin the comment or in the
description about this,absolutely.
Andrew (45:49):
Anything you need to know or listen to, we'll link up
for you.
Will (45:52):
Yeah, and this has been our first deep dive, but look
forward to more of these.
Again, get in the comments,tell us stuff you want to hear
more about or want to hear aboutit all.
We're happy to consider stuffand, you know, do some polls and
figure some things out.
In the meantime, smash thatlike and subscribe when it's
(46:14):
sound sogas TV on YouTube.
If you're watching the videoversion of this, great.
If you're not, there's a videoversion of this where sound
sogas on Facebook and Instagramand soundsogascom.
Andrew (46:28):
Come visit, come see us.
Let us know how you think we'llbe around.
See you in the next one, guys.
Bye, See ya.
Welcome to Sound Sagas Episode 2.
This is our first deep diveepisode.
Will and I have each selected aband that represents a space or
a type of music that we arevery tied to.
We have personal experiencewith these bands that we want to
share as well.
We've each picked somethingthat's important to us and we're
(00:40):
open to share them with you.
We're going to do a two-parterhere.
Will's going to go first withthe band that he selected, talk
in depth, and then we'll followup with my selection.
We'll do some talk about.
Will (00:53):
We'll see how it turns out .
Andrew (00:54):
Obviously very different taste here, but that's kind of
the beauty of it you getsomething from two very
different areas of music.
Who did you end up selectingfor today?
Will (01:05):
Well, I picked Rilo Kiley, a pretty impactful band for me.
We definitely want to hear fromyou all in the comments about
bands that have been impactfulfor you you might want to hear
about.
Don't forget to do that.
I started with them a long timeago, middle school, high school
(01:27):
.
One of my friends turned me onto them I think right after the
Execution of All Things era,check my name.
Andrew (01:40):
What year was that around?
Will (01:42):
That was around 2002.
That was the one previous.
I got started with that one andthen went into More Adventurous
, which was 2004.
That one I really hooked on tothis was back at that time right
.
Right.
Andrew (02:01):
It was released in 2004.
You were experiencing these asthey came out Great.
Will (02:06):
That's always the best.
The show that was mostimpactful for me that I saw them
was on the more adventuroustour.
That was just super cool.
I talked about it with peoplein the industry as an entry to
some internship jobs.
I wrote the story down.
It was basically this supercool venue in Tallahassee where
(02:29):
I'm from, in Florida, at themoon.
At the time it used to be thisreally cool black dancing club
way back when they kind ofrefurbished it once it fell out
of use and became a music venue.
This real memories I get fromit are like in that venue when
(02:53):
peopleit was still smokingindoors too at that time.
Andrew (02:55):
It was worth mentioning.
Will (02:57):
Thank God that went away.
Yeah, I agree, but if yousmoked in there it would rise to
the ceiling and make this cloudin the middle.
Then there were wraparounds forthe balcony and the bars.
I remember looking through thesmoke at the stage and seeing a
very cool like picker-esque kindof montage of the band playing.
Andrew (03:18):
It sounds like there was some atmosphere to this whole
experience.
Will (03:21):
It was very atmosphere, almost like it was meant to be a
little bit Kind of.
It was very fortuitous.
The interesting thing too wasthe opening band was a pirate
band Doing sea shanties beforethat was popular.
Andrew (03:34):
Like serious pirate band or joke pirate band.
They were pretty serious Stageprops and everything.
I think there was some humor toit.
Will (03:42):
They were very clearly supposed to be pirates singing
about pirate stuff, Amazing.
Yeah, I don't know where theyfound them or how they got on
that tour, but it was super funGoing into the band a little bit
.
The version I saw was JennyLewis, Blake Sennet, Piere
DeReeder and Jason Bosel.
The previous drummer was DaveRock, who was on the recordings
(04:08):
in all the other iterations ofthe band.
All consummate musicians,really good at their craft.
It was really like kind of a.
They all started really youngand kind of played through their
teen years doing tours andstuff.
So they were all really greatmusicians, great storytellers,
Like Jenny Lewis and BlakeSennet, which switch off singing
(04:29):
songs.
Blake Sennet had a really greatsong on More Adventurous called
Rip Chord, where he did kind ofhis style, and then Ginny has
some great ones on there as well.
She is the main singer.
They've all kind of gone on todo interesting things in music
since the band too, which Ialways thought was really cool.
(04:52):
Some artists don't.
Yeah some call it quits, andthen that era is over.
Andrew (04:57):
That time is done.
Will (04:59):
Sounds like Riley Kiley was an expression of them then
and when right Very much so, andthe reason they cite for
breaking up is they were justall so tired.
Andrew (05:11):
Like that's totally the fairest.
You couldn't get fairer thanthat, honestly, yeah.
Will (05:16):
Like they burned bright and burned out, but they all
kind of continued their otherstuff Like.
Jenny has a very successfulsolo career.
I'm seeing her Friday, actuallythis week.
Jason, I believe he's drummingin other bands.
I actually must up on him.
Blake Sennet went on to farmthe elected with another great
(05:36):
guitarist, get Piere to Reederhas a record label, little
record company, and he actuallyhas put out a bunch of stuff for
them their first EP, which isreally their first record,
initial friend, which is rightthere was put out as a
(05:58):
re-release on the Reader's labellittle record company Gotcha.
It originally was like a seriesthe few pressings of CDs.
I'm not sure if they actuallydid vinyl back then, but I know
they did CDs and the wayPitchfork tells it is Dave Foley
of Kids in the Hall fame helpedfinance part of that.
(06:19):
Cause he saw them in LA.
They were all an LA band and hewas like blown away and it was
like I need to like get this tomore people.
And so that's from what what Iran Pitchfork would happen, how
they got that off the ground,evan.
Years later, it still has afollowing.
I mean there's some songs onthere that were in TV shows and
movies.
They had a very good like kindof relationship in Hollywood
(06:41):
with other media.
I think that's part of whatburned them out too, like Jenny
was a child actor was a childactor.
Andrew (06:48):
Kind of doing the full gamut of like expression with
the band not just writing musicbut being part of other pieces
of art.
Will (06:54):
Definitely.
I felt more of a catharsisthing for them too, which kind
of gives the vibe that comesacross with it, which is so
interesting too.
It's kind of like a reflective,deeper indie rock vehicle than
a lot of stuff was at the timeGotcha, and I feel this when I
hear it too.
Andrew (07:13):
What specifically about Rilo Kiley, whether in the early
, early era of their music orlater?
Like drew you to that music,like.
Why do you like this band somuch?
Will (07:24):
So I also was a fan of like the Midwest kind of stuff
that was happening then andbefore then with Saddle Creek.
A lot of my favorite bands arefrom there Bright Eyes, the
Faint, Nina Devanna so they kindof got folded into that mix.
Jenny put out a split single.
They released one of therecords.
(07:48):
So there was a relationshipthere that I knew about and then
just how honest and expressiveit was.
There's not a lot of music thatsounds just like it.
There's a lot of music that iskind of inspired by.
Okay, Like Bethany Cosettinofrom Best Coast has cited Rilo
Kiley as a huge impression, ahuge influence on her music and
(08:10):
her band, and I know there's alot of other bands out there
like that you can kind of hearit in.
Like Wax to Hatchy and likeKitty Crutchfield that sort of
music as well.
But yeah, it just feels so like.
Andrew (08:21):
Is there like an authenticity to it, almost so
authentic yeah?
Will (08:24):
And you can still hear that in songs like Better, son
and Daughter.
A lot of them just haven't,will not age.
They kind of sing about stuffthat everyone talks about.
Andrew (08:34):
Yeah a timelessness that I think all great music has to
have, Totally Not that.
All great music that istimeless.
So now that all music istimeless, it has to be great,
but I think all great music hasto have some timeless element to
it, right yeah?
Will (08:45):
it definitely has that element of like timelessness to
it.
There's also since they wereall like I don't know how they
were so good, so young, butsince they're so good at what
they were doing really soundslike it could come from
different ages.
Andrew (09:00):
Like the Frug, which is a song on Initial Friend, is a
mock of like those old songsthat were about like dances, so
it's almost like they were young, but they had the wisdom almost
of older age maybe.
Will (09:13):
It seems like it, but they were clearly.
They clearly didn't.
Maybe that's the magic of it,right?
Andrew (09:17):
Yeah, it was definitely a magic.
That's a good description ofhow maybe it sounds.
Will (09:21):
Yeah.
Andrew (09:22):
Like timeless and familiar, but still new, and
like young, right, right.
Will (09:26):
Yeah, and I think that's a hard thing to recapture or
capture in the first place.
Yes, I know they probably don'twant to go back to anything
like that.
I mean, I know for certain GeneLewis doesn't Blixson.
It kind of did with the elected, but I don't think he does
anything like that anymore.
Andrew (09:45):
So the later projects of the artists involved in the
band are not really reflectiveExactly yeah, which is
interesting yeah.
I mean, a lot of artists have,like, a huge variation in how
they can express themselvesmusically and I think it's
interesting when artists go fromone style to another right.
And you see a lot of this and alot of music right, like
artists jumping different spots.
(10:07):
Totally, I love it, yeah, yeahabsolutely, and Jenny's solo
records.
Will (10:13):
There's a lot to talk about there.
That's another episode, though,but they all kind of change
pretty drastically, like Iremember listening to the
Voyager when it came out withyou.
Andrew (10:24):
First time I heard that with you was fantastic.
Yeah, it's just like greatmoody music.
Will (10:30):
I'm not sure what the mood is.
I mean it's kind of sad, butit's not.
Her latest is kind of almost anantithesis to that.
Andrew (10:37):
Where like.
Will (10:38):
Voyager was very like introspective and sad kind of,
but not wordy.
And this one new one, Joy All,is kind of rehashing what it
means to be happy and like trulyjoyous.
Andrew (10:49):
Is there an introvert, extrovert element to why you
appreciate this band?
Are they both inward andoutward?
I'm not sure.
Will (10:57):
Okay, I'm not sure.
I think there could be, yeah,but it is very like music for
introverts, I think.
Andrew (11:06):
Her solo stuff is not as much.
Okay.
Will (11:10):
But I definitely feel that way about Rilo Kiley Gotcha,
although More Adventurous is themost, and Blacklight are
probably the most extrovertedsounding records, but they're
not by any measure likeextroverted sort of like they
can be.
I mean, Blacklight has a couplesongs that are very punchy, so
maybe there is a dynamic thereof like.
Andrew (11:29):
I think bands and especially the indie space that
can like be expressive but alsolike be vocal about, I guess
whatever they're singing aboutor the style of music, can be
very like like, I guess, outwardfeeling but have like very deep
inward messages where you haveto sit and focus by yourself to
really dig into the album.
Will (11:48):
I definitely think there's an element of that in there.
Yeah, and for More Adventurous,the most popular song in their
portions for Foxes, it has thatsame kind of dichotomy of like
it's kind of a serious song butit's done in this very like
poppy fun way, yeah, and that'strue of a lot of their music.
(12:09):
So it's yeah, it's a little bitof both.
Andrew (12:13):
It's a good mixture.
Do you think Riley Kiley is?
You wouldn't call it sad music.
Will (12:18):
Some of it I would.
Yeah, it's not like ElliottSmith.
Okay, you know what I mean,yeah, and even he joked about
Elliott Smith, joked about howhe's not trying to make sad
songs.
He just that's the songs he'smaking.
And Phoebe Ridgers has had thatproblem too, where, like, she
makes sad girl music but it'snot, that's just the music that
she wants to make.
(12:38):
Gotcha, I don't think.
A lot of her songs are aboutpersonal experiences.
Andrew (12:43):
I mean.
Will (12:43):
I'm sure some of them are.
But yeah, it's interesting thatway we're like you can tell
when some people are putting onan artifice, but if you can't
tell, that kind of frustratespeople more and then they just
assume it's not.
Andrew (12:57):
Yeah, that's a good point.
Actually Like that.
This comes back to theauthenticity and it's hard for
bands to like you can't just sitthere and think like let's be
authentic, right, it's a matterof practice and how you do and
how you perform.
Will (13:09):
And if you do sit there and think that it's very obvious
that you don't?
Andrew (13:12):
It is almost obvious that you're trying.
You see this a lot in heavymetal.
We'll get into this in the nextsegment.
But like, try hardism, likebeing as like as possible, goes
so far but goes very littlesometimes.
Will (13:27):
No, I agree.
Yeah, this band soundseffortless almost rather Kylie,
but I also don't like that word.
Andrew (13:33):
Oh, yeah, okay.
Will (13:33):
It takes a lot of effort to do that.
Andrew (13:35):
Okay, yeah, yeah, I was meaning more of like when you
consume the final album, whenyou, when you, when you hear the
music played out, it almostfeels like they were made to do
it.
Will (13:44):
It does feel effortless, effortless, yeah, but by no
measure is any good musiceffortless.
Andrew (13:48):
No, I'm sure they were their brains trying to do a lot
of it.
Well they're very goodmusicians as well.
Like that's part of it, right.
Will (13:54):
Yeah.
Andrew (13:54):
And their technicality doesn't get in the way of.
Will (13:57):
No, it's, it's funny too, cause I mean, I think between
Jenny and Blake they were kindof the leads, with Ginny being
the clear lead but they kind offought being the leader a little
bit a nd Piere de Reeder otherder and Jason Boswell or Dave
Rock.
It never comes through that.
They were trying to like be thestar Gotcha, which I think
helped the band a ton becausethey were just like a solid,
(14:20):
solid back then.
It's like band dynamic, yeah,yeah, right.
There are even some songs onarchives that like last record
that they put out, which is justa collection of songs which
anyone getting into them.
I would actually recommend that,even though it's like the
cutting room floor.
Yeah, it's a really goodretrospective of like everything
.
Okay, so it gives you like afull picture, almost Right, yeah
(14:42):
, and if you're a music fanparticularly, it gives you some
insights.
They dug through a lot of oldstuff, like all those photos on
the cover, fan photos that weresubmitted, I believe.
Okay, they made a video for thesong Let Me Back In, which is
about LA and like has a bunch ofbands submitted stuff, cool.
But I'll let's say, yeah,derrida and Dave Rock and Bozel
(15:05):
all knew like kind of where theywere going.
But there's a song on thatrecord that they cut, probably
from the more of interest areawhere Derrida was actually
singing and had a more frontcenter role which they I'm sure
they all kind of played aroundwith each other playing the
front leads for a while.
Andrew (15:24):
Right, but tested the waters almost yeah, but they
just decided we don't.
Will (15:28):
this one doesn't really fit in the other ones, and I
don't know.
It's good, it's good to seethat that stuff was made, even
though those weren't the choices.
Andrew (15:35):
Even the concept of that album of being like a
retrospective or a whole picture, but made up of cutting room
floor.
It's the concept that we arestill the parts we don't put
into the music, right.
Totally yeah, and just how muchexactly exactly how maybe
prolific they were in writingand practicing.
Will (15:52):
Yeah.
Andrew (15:54):
Yeah, I like bands that have the obvious effort put into
it.
Right, and you said fanssubmitted, so they like paid
attention to their fans too,right?
Will (16:04):
That's another thing that helps them a lot is they have
some pretty devoted fans.
Great Like, with that packagethey also released a cassette
that has their demos on it,which is very listenable.
Like I love that cassette and Imean I actually want to mention
too I'll put the let me back invideo in the description for
people want to watch it.
Yeah, but the reader I mean, healso has all this other stuff
(16:26):
that he's doing on the sidewhere, like, like, tim Heidecker
makes music the guy from Timand Eric, yeah, and he's
actually a great artist and putsout all his records.
So I think he I mean I wastrying to look up when he
started Little Record Company isin print, but I think he was
doing that for a lot of theirhistory.
So he was probably archivingall this stuff to like kind of
(16:46):
save for later, which is anotherthing that takes another kind
of level of insight.
It does, yeah.
Andrew (16:53):
It's almost there's an art to like, it's almost like
the art element to like.
Releasing andcompartmentalizing your artistic
effort into albums anddifferent releases, that sort of
give people the picture of whatyou're trying to do To just
release your music really nearly.
And some demos like, some demosthat you get like, are pretty
rough, right, right, like in theworld out there, in the demo,
(17:14):
in the demo collecting area inthe in the demo collecting area.
Oh yeah, I mean when I workedat the label.
Will (17:19):
Like we literally had a mail bin full of demos and we we
didn't make time for anyone outthere who's demos to listen to
all of them, like it was aninterns job to go through put
them all in and then if acertain amount of people voted
it down, it went in the bin, butif a certain amount of people
said yes, it went up theflagpole.
Like they found some artiststhat way.
Andrew (17:39):
Yeah.
Will (17:40):
So I mean it was kind of funny, though, like CDs, we
didn't pay as much attention tovinyl.
We've always paid moreattention to cassettes.
We paid more attention to it.
Totally depends on the label,but hot tip right there.
Andrew (17:51):
Yeah.
Will (17:52):
But it's worth submitting stuff like that.
The Obox is still.
Andrew (17:55):
Yeah.
Will (17:55):
Yeah, and that actually reminds me too, like that would
be like if I produced a demo forpotential record deal.
That'd be like a dream cometrue.
To make a demo that's like likesomeone plays it and they're
like, oh shit, right, right.
But Weezer has a story likethat where, oh really, yeah, I
forget who the producer was, butMatt Sharp, the original
(18:16):
bassist for Weezer, gave him atape because he was like doing
some job for him, like unrelatedto music, and he like sat on it
for a couple of weeks but thenstill had it.
It was like, oh, there's a niceguy, I'll listen to it.
And he like blew away and hecalled him and said I was like
oh man, what I like.
I think he was with Sweater Song.
Yeah, he said that about.
Andrew (18:34):
Even if the band that you're whoever band you're
talking about even if they don'tlike, have that element of like
immediately getting blownpeople away right, Like a, a, a
wonder story, like that youcould, the band can still
harness that energy of like.
You can feel that they'rereaching a point where they're
going to try to blow you away,Right.
Will (18:52):
I feel like.
Andrew (18:53):
Riley Kelly for you and like as a band that you really
really like is probably blowingyou away on a couple of
occasions.
Will (18:58):
Absolutely yeah.
I'd be curious to see if I justblind gave that cassette to
some people, what they thought,because the cassette of their
demos kind of blows me away Likeif I don't think about the
context.
Yeah.
Andrew (19:09):
Nice and, like I guess you mentioned the time where you
saw them in Florida in theearly 2000s yeah, in the moon.
Any other experiences sincethen?
That was the only time I caughtthem as a group.
I've seen Ginny.
Will (19:22):
Lewis a lot more since then.
Gotcha, I wish I'd caught BlakeSennet when he was in the
elective.
They were a sub pop band, sothere's a couple of records on
sub pop and they have some greatsongs.
And they have some great songs.
It does come off kind ofsimilar to some of his Rila
Kiley stuff.
So, like I said, that wasprobably the most reflective,
(19:44):
and I think I'm probablymisremembering this, but I think
his guitarist is toured withJenny before too.
Like everyone in LA kind ofhelps each other out a lot Like
it's a scene, Like at least forthis kind of music.
But yeah, just Jenny Lewis alot since then.
Maybe a reunion show veryunlikely yeah.
Andrew (20:02):
Never want to count on it, but you never know these
days.
Will (20:04):
Yeah, and if they did, would it?
Andrew (20:07):
be good, you never know.
I've heard no inklings.
I think it would be.
Will (20:10):
I think they could get back to a pretty good game.
Ok, and Jenny Lewis has neverleft the game, so Gotcha, yeah,
it'd be interesting.
Andrew (20:19):
Yeah, it's funny for me to engage with this style of
music because I love thesinger-songwriter aspect of it,
like, especially with JennyLewis, the.
A lot of indie rock that Iencounter has, like I don't know
, like a happier timber or likea happier kind of like or more
(20:40):
upbeat swing a lot.
Like you know it's based in.
Will (20:43):
like you know it's based in rock and roll, like I guess I
think that was true of a lot ofindie rocks when we were in
school too, yeah, and I think inmy sense my exposure has been
limited.
Andrew (20:54):
I'm not able to like and this might be even an
interesting perspective on RileyKeiley.
I'm not able to situate themamong peers or bands that have
followed, that have takeninspiration, or bands that Riley
Keiley took inspiration from.
Like, I'm not able tocontextualize them, but I think
having that perspective isactually an interesting one
because you're fresh.
Yeah, Like you kind of hear themusic without the noise around
(21:16):
it.
Will (21:17):
I agree.
Andrew (21:18):
And I like, I clearly like what I hear, like it has.
There is an authenticity to itthat that I think a lot of indie
might try to achieve, becausethat's a key part, I think, of
indie.
Rock is like that level ofsincerity.
But it's hard to like nail thatwithout trying, or looking like
you're trying, or exactly beinga little stilted sometimes.
Will (21:39):
Never got that feel from Rilo Kiley Especially being that
young, I mean I kind of wish Icould see them play as like the
teens that they were and seelike, oh, like.
This is like, clearly in workin progress.
Andrew (21:50):
Yeah.
Will (21:51):
But the songs didn't feel that way.
Andrew (21:53):
Yeah, which is interesting, I mean it's
interesting that like age is abig thing too, like being young
and like having a band that like.
There's some bands in mycircles where, like the, some of
the musicians are like under 21.
They're like still under teensand I don't know doesn't
necessarily make a difference,but like it can, like maybe some
energy.
If you're touring, it makes adifference.
Will (22:14):
It's okay, yeah, physically absolutely.
Andrew (22:16):
Absolutely, and then that translates to the quality
of the live shows of, obviously,and everything Right.
Will (22:21):
I mean, it really does matter for your ability to like
live in a van and set up in playshows.
Andrew (22:27):
I'm thinking like artistically like how much, how
much further an output you have.
And I'm thinking about my lifeand, yeah, I was definitely more
fervorous and had more outputwhen I was in my teens.
Will (22:37):
I think you're less afraid to talk about your feelings too
.
Andrew (22:40):
I think so, like I think the angsty.
Will (22:42):
there's some strength in angst there is.
Andrew (22:44):
There is.
There is youth, and music is ahuge topic.
I love that, like what it'slike to be young and a little
bit without regard, and how thattranslates well to music.
Totally, you can watch the bandgrow along these paths too,
which I'm sure you watched Ryleof Kylie grow.
Will (22:57):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, like you said, the youth and music
thing is real, because just tobe that unafraid, to like feel
that way about something andthat strongly, is impressive,
awesome.
Well, that's like I thinkthat's a great.
Andrew (23:11):
That's a great.
Like both description of Ryle,of Kylie, they kind of have
what's how they're situated inIraq, like what the sound and
kind of kind of mood of it is,but also your experience, like
getting into it and being partof it, like that's cool, yeah,
and I'm happy to share that withpeople and, like I said,
getting the comments, definitely.
Like, whatever, whatever you arein the music sphere, like, put
(23:31):
on some Ryle of Kylie, justcheck it out, I'm sure, check
out Good Indie Rock and I thinkyou'll be pleased.
I think it'll be amazing.
We're going to switch gears alittle bit and talk about a
different space of music.
So we're shifting from IndieRock to Funeral Doom, which I
think is a cool, a cool littletransition.
There's, yeah, good contrast.
Will (23:48):
If you think about it.
Andrew (23:49):
You could find some carryover, but it's going to be
a lot of contrast.
But what I want to describe andtalk about is the band
Bellwitch.
They are a funeral doom band.
Obviously, like I mentioned,they've been around since early
2010s, so about a decade now.
Still active.
There is their probably theirbest commercial release so far.
(24:10):
It's an album called MirrorReaper.
It's kind of noted for beingover an hour long in one single
performance or one track.
So it's almost like it's kindof like a live album where you
kind of listen to the whole set.
It's an entire set.
But there's this thematicallyand kind of musically divided
(24:31):
into three distinct segments.
Will (24:32):
You can kind of I was going to ask is it divided for
AB or it's three segments withpauses or how's it?
How's it the one track?
I think they did it.
Andrew (24:41):
So it makes sense with records, but at the same time
it's it's not a cut and thenenter back.
It's like it slows down and itgets very slow and quiet and
then builds back up into thesecond I call movements.
Will (24:53):
I was going to say it sounds very intentionally like
movements or acts.
Andrew (24:56):
Yeah, I think precisely that's the way to describe it.
Yeah, so the album as a wholeon this describes sort of how
funeral doom works.
If you're not familiar withwhat it is, it's a very slow,
low BPM sort of like.
A sort of like if you were toartistically recreate like a
real funeral dirge, you know,like that that's slow,
(25:16):
methodical, like like it's verymorose, very sad, sort of like I
call it.
Like like something like one,two, you know, even slower than
that.
Will (25:28):
Which would you call their songs dirges?
Andrew (25:30):
Yes like yeah, if you, if your casket was being carried
from the funeral home to theground where you were about to
be buried, it would be extremelyappropriate music for that.
Yeah, and this is the real liketwist to their story.
The real sort of interestingtake on their story is that one
of their founding membersthey've been a duo until
recently.
(25:51):
Now they're collaborating withanother artist, but it's always
been bass and drums, which is aninteresting dynamic for a metal
band not having a guitarist andfor the drummer to do vocals.
But what happened was theiroriginal founding member the
drummer, ended up passing awaydue to illness.
I believe they integrated someof the some of the some of the
(26:14):
the late drummers earliermaterial into this album in a
very like ghostly way, right?
I?
Will (26:20):
could see that being inappropriate in a lot of
circumstances, but for funeralbut, it seems pretty appropriate
for this one Exactly.
Andrew (26:26):
And what's what's not stilted about this is that they
were always a funeral do man andhe wasn't planning on dying
right.
Like this situation came up, itemerged and they they in part
handled the trauma by bycreating artwork with it right.
I don't want to presume thatthat was part of their trauma
(26:49):
handling process too hard, but Ido.
I'm pretty sure that there wasintentional of them including
vocals from a prior take of theof the past drummers in this
album, like I assume that wasdone as a matter of honor, but
it also was a matter of, likeyou know, coming to terms right.
(27:10):
Well, I think it's important.
Will (27:11):
The way you said it is really good.
It's important to distinguishtrauma making people feel
creatively inclined rather thanthis being a way for them to
process trauma or the traumainforming some decisions Right.
Andrew (27:28):
Because I hate the like starving artists, exactly Trope.
There's two prong.
Yeah, like you said, there'stwo prongs there, like there's
trauma that can just cause youto like distract yourself with
artistic pursuits.
But there's also artisticpursuits that help you find
peace with trauma or findsomething or find progress or
whatever it is.
But handle, handle the feeling.
Will (27:50):
Right, and this is the point being that trauma is not
necessary for art.
Exactly, but this was a goodvehicle for it, yeah.
Andrew (27:56):
But this is this and I think for Mirror Reaper
specifically, the execution ofit, being the Bell Witch is sort
of known for the minimalisttake, like I mentioned just six
string bass, a lot of tappingwith drums and the drummer is
doing vocals.
I think that minimalist sort oftake is extremely sad and
(28:18):
beautiful, Like it's one of therear instances where I think,
like almost a format or adedication to a methodology or
style is itself artistic Right.
Like to execute something ofsuch monumental beauty and
sadness with so little is almost, it's almost like a call sign
(28:39):
to sadness itself.
Will (28:40):
Like how little we have to work with.
It's a task for sure.
I'm trying to think like it's achallenge.
I mean, that sounds like achallenge to yourself.
You know almost to make thatkind of music.
Andrew (28:52):
It is To like paint, only with a few colors, not to
say that like Bell Witch soundsat all, like very compressed or
flat, like they sound extremelyrich, almost like they had 15
musicians playing this musicEven though it's so minimal,
like it just has.
That's what's the magic aboutthis album.
That's why I want people tolisten to it and see, like, what
(29:14):
they think about it.
Will (29:15):
I mean I also find in that setup of a drummer and bassist,
only those bands tend to bemore dynamic because they try to
make up for it In other ways,more creative ways.
That makes sense.
Andrew (29:27):
Especially a six string bass yeah.
That's like a decision it isyeah, absolutely, and I like how
Belwich, like they convey thetheme and the mood and how they
want you to feel or how notnecessarily prescribing how they
(29:48):
want you to feel, but like theintended feeling Exactly.
Whatever the catalyst is forthe feelings that you have when
you listen to it, I feel likethey lay it so bare and like, so
, so almost painfully bare, like.
And this brings me to anexperience I would have at
Thalia Hall down the street here, from where we're recording A
great music venue in Chicagoknown for excellent sound and a
(30:13):
great experience.
So we're also like theatmosphere is set, the theme was
set and Belwich was playingwith mono he's fantastic, by the
way, oh yeah love mono.
What a blast, full orchestra andeverything.
Oh wow.
So like a very like that was avery surging upward experience.
And then Belwich sort of takesyou and brings you down very
(30:35):
slowly.
So at that moment at that cusp,having seen mono and been real
excited about it and everything,and getting into Belwich, I was
like at the perfect, you knowwhen you've had a few drinks and
you get really good at pingpong.
But, like you can only do itwhen you balance on that.
I just had a few drinks Right.
I was on that press.
Will (30:52):
I was like you're in the groove yeah.
Andrew (30:54):
And I was doing.
I was doing show photographyfor the show as well.
So like photo pit, I kind ofhad you know that, that closer
experience to it.
But to see Belwich from thephoto pit like and get to spend
that much I guess intimate sortof out of the headspace of being
in a crowd sort of situationwith that band is perfect for
what it is because it'sextremely meditative music.
Will (31:16):
I feel like I empathize with that feeling more too,
because I've seen Ohm so manytimes.
This is where it's very similar.
Andrew (31:23):
Yep, absolutely, and I think it's more of like the
drone aspect and I think funeraldo incorporates elements of
drawing, but not purposefullyand almost has to join by nature
of it being slow.
Will (31:33):
Yeah, there are some songs that are not too, but yeah,
it's very like.
I know, it's that feeling whereyou're like, I don't want to
say like possession or something, but you're just kind of like,
you're just by the moment you'rezonked into it.
Andrew (31:49):
Yeah, we're like you're a little zonked out because,
like there's something veryatmospheric or very like what I
call it like enrapturing aboutthe music, right, and this is
like that.
This is the, this is thelanguage that Belwich speaks, is
like using as little aspossible to distract you from
the real message and that's like, ultimately, death and sadness.
Will (32:13):
Yeah, and I'm honestly kind of makes me think more
historically, like an Ohm fallsinto this thing too, where it
feels like really really oldmusic.
You know, I like I sent youthat video of that Celtic horn
the other day.
Andrew (32:27):
Yeah.
Like stuff like that, whereit's like Interesting point.
Will (32:30):
I like this music was only about ritual death or very
important events.
Andrew (32:36):
Yeah, I there, you're right at your spot on on that is
that like there is aritualistic element to at any
Belwich performance or album.
Especially me reaper, it feelsalmost like and like I mentioned
, they incorporating thefounding drummers vocals into
the, into the album.
(32:57):
I think that was like that.
That really makes it feel likea ceremony, like a ritual.
It has that and I think mostfuneral room has this.
That's important because likethat puts you into an experience
listening to this music thatmight be different than how
other music puts you intowhatever experience it does.
Right, some people are willingto go down that path, some
(33:20):
people want to taste it and somepeople aren't, aren't
interested in that's like cool.
I think a big thing will be thevocals that are the hardest
part to for people to sort ofcome to terms with.
I guess if you're not used tolike growling or low guttural
vocals, I wouldn't describeBelwich as shouty and in any
(33:40):
measure screen or I mean theyare growls but it's not like I
caught the Uga Booga right.
It's not like knuckle dragon,caveman, shit that some death
metal is right, right.
This is very like.
Will (33:57):
It's more like the Babadook.
Andrew (33:59):
If you know anything about like Tibetan throat
singing and your ears are tunedto like, hear and appreciate the
sound it makes, like it becomesbeautiful and that's the only
way I can describe it is thatyou learn to appreciate it like
you under appreciate beer, whichis bitter.
Yeah, I think you're sayingit's an acquired taste it is,
but without saying like you haveto be fancy to like it.
Will (34:20):
No, but it's like for a certain group of people.
It's very important for a lotof people that can probably
appreciate it.
Andrew (34:26):
I think so, and even if you're turned off by the vocals,
I think like mentally, you cansort of background them because
the music itself is socompelling.
The bass, especially the bass,work.
I mean, I can't discount thedrums, but the way that that
that he plays bass tapping and Ithink he's doing multiple
chords passing at the same timeI was going to ask do you know
what kind of bass he uses?
Will (34:47):
I don't.
Andrew (34:48):
There's.
I have photos of him that Itook with also like there's
online.
I'm not sure what, what heplays.
I do think he and I've seen hisrack I'm sure he, I think he
has a very very nice setup.
Will (34:59):
Yeah, I'm just curious because I know there was a lot
of like from the gear world,like Manus was a big brand for
stuff like that.
Yeah, in that vein, where it'sneeds to be a very versatile
bass, I think so.
Andrew (35:11):
It does because he's playing in a very, very
technical sort of way.
But it's funny is that in thefinal product, in the music, you
don't, you don't reallyconceive of him playing these
riffs in a very like.
If you play guitar and watchhim, you would know that that's
hard.
Will (35:27):
It doesn't sound hard.
It sounds like the music kindof transcends that.
It's drums and bass.
You're kind of not thinkingabout that.
Andrew (35:33):
Absolutely it does and like people who are metalheads
and people who know about thatwhich but haven't seen them live
.
Some of them don't even know.
It's just to to performers, toartists Right Now in they have
done a collaboration on their ona later release to include
additional members from anotherband and that's sort of a blend
(35:53):
of the two bands.
I'm okay with that.
I'm like it's pretty good.
I always go back to me reappearas my favorite Bellwitch
release.
The prior release for phantomsis a fantastic album as well.
That one's four tracks.
It's not.
It does.
Thematically, those four tracksblend very cohesively so you
get like a full listeningexperience, but it's not the one
(36:14):
single long.
Will (36:16):
So what do you recommend?
If someone wants to get into it, which ones should they start?
Andrew (36:19):
right in a mirror.
I mean, like, just sit throughit as long as you need to decide
that it's for you or not.
It starts out.
I recommend mirror because itstarts off very.
It starts on a very gradualwavelength getting going.
It starts very soft and slow.
The vocals I won't spoilanything, but the vocals and the
(36:40):
drums do hit at a hard point,kind of like a moment where they
come to their full sound.
I think that's a powerfulmoment but it could be like off
putting yeah, if you're not usedto like, all of a sudden
they're being growling and veryslow, methodical base and what
was the band they collaboratedwith on the other record?
Let me double check that.
Oh, is Ariel ruin?
(37:02):
Yeah, ariel ruin.
Okay, yeah, they collaboratedwith Aero Ruin on their second
to last release, and then theyhave a release this year that I
don't think is a collaboration,but I'm not sure it might be
just them.
But Mirror Reaper let me justconfirm that, yeah, it was 2017.
Four phantoms their priorrelease was 15, and then longing
(37:24):
, their debut 2012.
Will (37:28):
So did you yourself start with Mirror Reaper or did you
kind of come in from thebeginning?
Andrew (37:32):
I started with four phantoms and I enjoyed that
album.
It didn't showcase the type ofsongwriting that Mirror Reaper
showcased.
They switched that up.
That was an evolution.
Four phantom stuck with me.
That's a powerful album.
It is one of the unstoppablefuneral doom albums, I think.
Will (37:51):
It is funny too.
I feel like bands tend tofollow a trend of being really
intentional about theirsophomore album hitting hard.
It's probably less of a thingfor bands like this.
I think they took a risk withthis one.
Andrew (38:04):
I think this was a big risk.
Will (38:05):
This does sound like more of a sophomore vibe, even though
their second one hit reallyhard.
Andrew (38:10):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah, this being their third, I
think.
At that point it was like wehave proof of this sound being
very impactful.
And then, I think, for thisalbum, they said how can we make
it as grandiose and as big aspossible?
(38:33):
How can we expand these ideaswe came up with on four phantoms
and grow them into a big, bignarrative?
And so they end up with thisHomeric hour and 20-minute long
experience, and so for all threealbums it's all drums and bass.
Will (38:51):
Did they use any orchestral stuff or any like
synth or computer effects, or isit all drums and?
Andrew (38:58):
bass?
I believe there is.
Let me double check that.
There is a part where they use,like I mentioned, the former
drummer's vocals which becomesin as sort of like a floating
sort of atmospheric layer.
They're kind of drawn out.
Will (39:14):
Because I do like it when bands use like kind of something
unexpected to fill out the yeahand the drummer does use a
synth or a keyboard of source toadd to the mix.
Andrew (39:27):
So to say it's purely drum, bass and vocals is
slightly inaccurate.
Will (39:33):
I mean as performed it probably is.
When you listen to it, you hearit.
Andrew (39:38):
But then they also they do execute or end up using the
synth or the keyboard.
It's always like it might notalways be just one note, but it
seems like a solid, like bassline.
Is it kind of like washing?
It becomes almost the noisefloor right yeah, the background
.
So it's nothing like.
Will (39:57):
I mean.
I do like it when synths areutilized for stuff like that.
Yeah, because it's atmosphere.
Then you can add atmospherewhile not having to employ a
whole other kind of facet of theband.
Exactly, a lot of bands uselike those old omni chords and
stuff like that for that, butit's always interesting to see
how it's executed.
Andrew (40:17):
Yeah, and all of this is in the name of.
I mean, there's no two waysabout it.
There's no fucking around LikeBelwich is a band about death
and sadness.
It is a coming to that, youlisten to it and it is a funeral
dirge.
It is nothing other than that.
It's funeral doom, right.
It's very beautiful and somber,and I think combining Combining
(40:45):
rapture and combining beautywith sadness and despair so to
create like an artistic nexuswhere those two things mix is
like mixing more than water.
Right, but they do it with alevel of artistry and a level of
simplicity that I think isextremely noteworthy.
Will (41:02):
Do you think that's what drew you to them originally?
Like just that kind of powerfulsynthesis of those two things.
Andrew (41:09):
Just the ability to say so much was so little was
impactful on itself.
And then just the Again thereal content about death and
sadness, Like it's there andit's real in life and you can
reflect to it with this realmusic.
I think both of those thingsdrew me to it immediately,
Definitely my favorite funeraldoom band, and that definitely
(41:30):
is my favorite funeral doomalbum.
Will (41:33):
Cool yeah, do you think there?
I mean, I feel like I just said, do you think that?
Do you think there are otherbands that they either
influenced or were influenced by, like what's kind of a realm of
this?
Andrew (41:44):
It's hard to say because , like funeral, doom is just not
a populated space.
Will (41:48):
Yeah.
Andrew (41:50):
It's To be a funeral doom band means you are nothing
but funeral doom and I thinkthere's a Because you have to
play so slow generally and youhave to like adopt a style that
does not translate to most othermetal types.
Like you can be thrash anddeath and black metal at the
same time.
Like you can write an albumcohesively.
That is those three things.
(42:11):
But to be funeral doom, it'shard to be other things.
Now there's like there's deathdoom and other forms of doom,
but funeral doom that inclusionof the word funeral basically
locks it into a specific soundor a style.
So it's pretty gated, I thinkthis one.
Will (42:29):
I do like how your journalism background is showing
through here a little bit,where you're like these are the
terms, here are the bands,because I kind of come from the
opposite perspective where, like, I don't usually think of those
terms first when I think of thebands, because they're all made
up terms by journalists theyare, they absolutely are.
Andrew (42:47):
It fits in a bigger subgenre of just doom, which can
include stoner doom and othersorts of music that you would
listen to side by side and knowthat they're completely
different.
But hey, this just comes fromlistening to a lot of metal,
this might sound similar to alot of heavy stuff to some
people, so it just depends onwhere you come from.
Will (43:06):
So I'm all for that contextuality.
Andrew (43:08):
right of categories, but I'll be guilty as much as still
use them to describe things.
Will (43:13):
I mean, it's not a thing to feel good or bad about, no,
no, so the way we're going to,understand how they sort of come
to.
Yeah, we have to use our wordsto talk about it.
Andrew (43:21):
It's important to have words to talk about them with
and, as you guys can tell, Ihave many about, about Bill Wich
and Mary, for I think, likejust to sum up like kind of how
how I relate to this album is,like you know, I a lot, of, a
lot of heavy music and a lot oflike intense sort of music that
(43:42):
goes downward, I mean likeemotionally, like sadness, anger
touches on hard to touchemotions.
Exactly, I think like there's acouple of ways to do it, and
metal sometimes does it rightand wrong, just like other
genres.
But this is this, is it doneright?
Like this is this, I think,goes beyond heavy metal.
This album Like that's.
my final point on it is thattranscends the kind of genre I
(44:04):
think you can not care or knowanything about heavy metal or
want no interest, but I thinkyou should.
I think anyone who at leastwants to have an opinion on
heavy metal has to listen.
Listen to an album like this orthis one to know what they're
talking about.
At least have the chance tounderstand that, like this, a
lot of the stereotypes areclearly wrong.
(44:25):
But but like, even deeper thanthat, that that metal can do
something that maybe some othergenres have trouble doing, or,
like you, can get you toemotional spaces that other
genres don't have the materialfor, the space for.
Will (44:40):
Right, and this depends on the person, of course, but yeah
, I mean.
There's power in that to beable to touch untouchable
emotions.
This is all about trying newthings.
Andrew (44:48):
This is all about putting effort into trying new
things is like, is like beingokay with going somewhere you
haven't been before, so yeah,that's what soundsog is is all
about.
That's what it's all about islistening to funeral dooms about
the end times.
But but now I overall what theimpression that that album
leaves me with is one of beauty,like one of one of incredible
(45:12):
beauty.
It's like an honor to someone'slife as well.
Remember, there's like apositive element to this Totally
that that, even though thedrummer passed away, like that
drummer, that that artist'scontribution lives beyond what
he saw right.
Will (45:26):
Yeah, and in a way.
Andrew (45:27):
yeah, he would appreciate it in a way, and this
not not an unpopular album inmetal spaces either.
This, this album hit hard likepeople.
It made ways, and for goodreason, because it's it's a big
one.
Will (45:38):
Yeah, yeah.
Andrew (45:39):
Well, it's a big drop in the bucket.
Will (45:41):
Yeah, thank you for sharing this.
I'm sure a lot of people checkthat out.
We'll also throw a couple linksin the comment or in the
description about this,absolutely.
Andrew (45:49):
Anything you need to know or listen to, we'll link up
for you.
Will (45:52):
Yeah, and this has been our first deep dive, but look
forward to more of these.
Again, get in the comments,tell us stuff you want to hear
more about or want to hear aboutit all.
We're happy to consider stuffand, you know, do some polls and
figure some things out.
In the meantime, smash thatlike and subscribe when it's
(46:14):
sound sogas TV on YouTube.
If you're watching the videoversion of this, great.
If you're not, there's a videoversion of this where sound
sogas on Facebook and Instagramand soundsogascom.
Andrew (46:28):
Come visit, come see us.
Let us know how you think we'llbe around.
See you in the next one, guys.
Bye, See ya.
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