February 18, 2024 • 43 mins
Discover the seismic shifts in the music industry as we unpack the year's most impactful moments and sounds. Our journey starts with 'Almost Human' by Wormhole, an album that not only shatters genre boundaries but also provides a visceral escape for those who craved solace in the chaos of 2023. We celebrate the technical mastery and emotional depth this brutal death metal masterpiece offers, drawing you into a conversation about the albums and artists that have left their mark.
This episode doesn't just revel in the past; it looks to the horizon, discussing the evolution of music creation and consumption. We navigate the challenges artists face in a digital landscape where authority is fragmented and outsider voices rise to the mainstream. As we analyze these shifts, we ponder the future of music – a future teeming with niche collaborations and micro-environments that promise a more personalized sonic experience. Prepare to expand your perspective on the role technology plays in shaping the art of sound.
We wrap up with a toast to the icons who redefine influence – Taylor Swift and her savvy maneuvers in the music and business world, and Andre 3000's unexpected return with an experimental album that resonates even in metal circles. Their stories are not just about success; they're about the universal pull of music and the relentless pursuit of growth and connection that defines an artist. Join us for this heartfelt tribute to the sounds and souls that compel us to listen, learn, and feel deeply.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Andrew (00:22):
Welcome to Sound Saga's.
It's 2020, and it has been forlike 20 days, but 2023 just
passed.
And what a doozy that was.
It went fast.
Yes, it was like January 2023,and then December 2023.
And in that span, maybe six orseven million albums came out,
(00:42):
maybe eight.
Maybe eight yeah a lot of newmusic, no shortage of things to
talk about.
Obviously, the year in contextand the year in like grand scope
, like puts in the frameworkwhat these albums mean, right.
Will (00:58):
I mean we had the whole gamut interesting no toast
challenging.
Andrew (01:02):
What is this post, covid ?
Like you know, it's like posteverything kind of
world-rentering.
A lot of the music is changing,a lot of the world is changing
and we can only sit by anddocument and talk about what
happens.
Will (01:14):
Yeah, well, I live in it, yeah.
Andrew (01:16):
Oh yeah, in sometimes bad ways.
So, yeah, good and bad, but Iwill say, sitting down, even
after a bad 2023 day, sittingdown and exploring 2023 music
was a constant recurrence ofpleasures for me, like again and
again, I found things that Iwas like this is, this sounds
(01:39):
now, this sounds like youcouldn't have released this last
year or two years ago, yeah,and like coming back to things
that seemed really interestingand still maintain that value
throughout the year.
Will (01:52):
I know, yeah.
Andrew (01:53):
That replay value is so, so golden, especially when
things like preserve for betteror worse part of the time that
they came from.
I think every year has this,but in 10, 20 years we'll see
more clearly what it was about2023 music that helped preserve
kind of these, like guys right,like what it feels like.
Will (02:15):
What do you think?
One of your most listened toalbums in 2023 was Wormhole.
Andrew (02:20):
Wormhole Definitely the new album by Wormhole.
It's guttural, brutal deathmetal in the style of like hyper
technical riffing and lots ofcomplicated drumming and a lot
of noise combined with very deep, very low, very like not
projected but sort of summonedguttural utterances.
Will (02:43):
What was the album title?
The?
Andrew (02:45):
band was Wormhole, the band's Wormhole.
The album title is calledAlmost Human.
Almost Human.
Yeah, let me check myreferences here just to make
sure I don't mix it up with 17other albums.
But yeah, there's a golfbetween like what you consider
like technical metal, where it'smostly about the guitar,
(03:07):
calisthenics or the ability toplay.
But Wormhole to me, and why Ilike it so much, is that they
sort of emulate the style ofbeing very good at their
instruments and they are.
But it's the vocal delivery andperformance that sells it.
It's the vocals.
And how often do you hearsomeone say I like guttural,
brutal death metal because ofthe vocals?
(03:28):
I mean not often, but actuallythinking about it, maybe more
often than not.
Will (03:34):
I mean, that stands out though.
Andrew (03:36):
It's sort of the defining characteristic right.
So like I listen to that againand, again and again.
It's also a very smooth album,despite how I describe it.
But yeah, almost Human is thetitle of the album.
Came out mid-2023.
Will (03:54):
Would you say it was comforting for you through that
year or I don't know.
Andrew (04:00):
I don't think anything about guttural, brutal,
technical death metal could becomforting, definitely cathartic
in that you know it's bleakmusic but it has.
There's beauty in the bleaknesswhich I always like to say
about some of this music Ilisten to.
Yeah yeah.
There's like a deft hand or adeft brushstroke to be painted
(04:23):
with.
So it offers insight, it doesyeah.
It's a lyrical insight, like itmight not be through the lyrics,
which, well, no, maybe prior toone side Like yeah, something
undescribable, or it's more ofan emotional Intangible.
Yeah, more of an emotionalfeeling, like there is, at least
with my experience, a wave of awarm, fuzzy wave when you hear
(04:46):
something that just and thisgoes for anyone who likes music
like that checks all the boxes.
Like not to say that this bandsimply checks the boxes and
that's all they do.
Will (04:54):
No, that's an excellent way to say it.
Andrew (04:56):
But they did check the boxes, yeah Things, check boxes.
Will (04:58):
That's a big thing.
It's a big thing In the self.
Andrew (05:02):
It's a big thing, especially for people like us
who have a lot of boxes in ourrepertoire.
Will (05:06):
So you know, right, we're we listen to a lot of music.
We're needy people.
Andrew (05:09):
Yeah, we are needy.
I don't want to put us on ahigh pedestal, because
absolutely not.
No.
No, I actually envy people whocan just kind of enjoy music.
But but I did find that myefforts in engaging with that
album were well, well paid off,and every time.
I listened to it.
It just felt like how could itbe so smooth?
(05:32):
I mean, I'm happy to hear thatI mean.
Will (05:34):
how could it be so smooth?
That's like that should be yourpull quote for that record?
Andrew (05:38):
Yes, I like that and also could be applied to Chuck
Mangione.
Will (05:42):
It could be applied to like really good scotch you know
like anything.
Andrew (05:48):
That's a great way to land on it, I mean why and I
wish I could play it to you andgrace your ears with the
wonderful sounds of a man- Ithink you should listen to it.
We should, I wish, we could, Iwish it wasn't copyrighted.
Will (06:01):
Oh no, you all should listen to it.
Andrew (06:03):
Oh they should, yeah, they should actually click it no
no, we've already heard it, butI'll hear it again yes, right
now, whatever you're doing, keepthis tab open.
Make sure we're still talking,like, don't put us away.
Will (06:16):
Yeah, don't do that.
Listen to us on repeat.
Yeah, and then open another tabor window.
Yep.
Andrew (06:21):
Listen to this Yep Type in wormhole almost human and
you'll find it on bandcamp.
And I'm curious to what anyonewho has never heard like
anything heavier than metallicor a megadeth or something, or
like Romstein maybe, I wonder.
I wonder how that kind of likethis is like a deeper cut right
Like you don't just happenacross this band.
(06:42):
I wonder what people who havecompletely fresh ears would make
of this gentleman's vocalperformance.
Will (06:49):
So would you recommend this band to anyone who's
looking for something a littlebit heavier than Romstein or
Metacor or Megadeth.
Andrew (06:57):
Like if it's your first foray into, like, the deeper
world of underground metal, thiswould be a nice stopping point.
Will (07:06):
Yeah.
Andrew (07:07):
I mean that's a pretty far, pretty quick.
So yeah, it's a sound.
So I guess top tip right.
Listen to wormhole Sounds likea top tip what about you.
Is that what we call?
those top tips, no I stole thatfrom Top Gear, so we might get
sued.
Will (07:20):
Okay, well, we won't get sued, but no Well, we had a word
for like soundsock as hot tipsor something Top tips.
Andrew (07:28):
I did say top tip because I did steal that from
Top Gear, but we sound like asound tip, something like that.
No, that's too easy.
Will (07:34):
Yeah, yeah, I don't know.
Yeah, I mean to me I guess themost listens, most impactful.
I went back to an old album bythe Postal Service because they
did their first like reuniontour and many, many number of
(07:55):
years last year Went to LA, sawthem.
It was awesome.
But they also re-released theiralbum with a bunch of B-sides
and stuff, so that was supertopical and cool to listen to.
I mean, I've been a big fan ofall of them for a long time.
But the tour was extragratifying because, as an older
(08:20):
person, I guess in like digitalspaces to see them perform
they're like kind of my nextstep.
So, like Ben Gibbard and GinnyLewis have both had records out
when I was a teenager before Iwas a teenager and so they
(08:41):
played death capricuity songs,postal Service songs, ginny
Lewis songs and it was just likea huge explosion of cool music.
Andrew (08:51):
It's like a fucking smorgasbord of everything.
Yeah, it was like eating it up.
Will (08:55):
Yeah, and then the records come out.
I mean I'm wearing the hoodieright now for that concert, but
yeah, I mean that sustained methroughout the year.
And then I found out they'retouring again, you know, coming
into 2024.
So going to see more of thatthis year and I think they're
(09:17):
getting a lot of young fans,like Ginny Lewis had another
record come out last year JoyY'all.
Andrew (09:23):
Right Active, like after 10 years or so or whatever it
was.
Yeah, it came out.
Yeah, no one just comes backand to an empty stadium.
Will (09:31):
Well, I mean, she was opening for Harry Styles and,
like, has a lot of young fans.
Andrew (09:34):
I was signing with Postal Service.
Will (09:35):
Yeah, but yeah, Postal Service.
I mean that band was defunctand though it's reunited and
invigorated, I also said youinvade Momstein.
Andrew (09:48):
I'm like that's what I was tripping into.
Will (09:51):
Because they had a course come out on True Fire.
But say and spell has been alot.
That's hilarious.
So, yeah, ginny Lewis had arecord come out and was doing
Postal Service thing.
Now she's back on a solo tour,ben Gibbard is back with Duff
(10:11):
Capacuti on Baron tour, and theyhave new music as well.
So it's just like a plethora ofthings to digest from them this
year.
Andrew (10:20):
Is it totally typical early 2000s live?
I'm talking like 2010s, 2020s,2030s.
Are we going to be in this ageof constant like band is gone,
but now band is back, like isthat the norm?
Will (10:34):
I mean, people are going to start dying.
So I don't think, so I thinkwell, eventually, yeah, you
can't come.
Andrew (10:41):
Well, holograms, see, like that's a big question.
Yeah it's like are we?
Are we ending the death ofcelebrities Right?
Will (10:51):
So, yeah, I think there's a weird thing to spend that with
.
So the Rolling Stones have beengoing forever.
Right, that's one way to do it.
Andrew (10:59):
They are human skeletons .
Now, and yes, obviously.
Will (11:02):
And I mean it sounds bad, but it's fun to watch Postal
Service.
They do a show or a tour everyfive or 10 years.
It seems like once people startdying, I don't know.
I don't know if holograms aregoing to write.
Andrew (11:20):
Some artists will simply not agree to them.
Will (11:22):
Yeah, I think it'll be.
There'll be enough stuff inplace to say, like you can't
make a hologram of me and dothis.
Andrew (11:30):
There will be that and people have already said do not
represent me in any way withholograms.
Will (11:36):
Yeah, once I pass yeah.
So I do think, the RollingStones model is going to retire
where it's like you got to dothis forever.
Andrew (11:43):
Yeah, because.
Will (11:44):
I don't think anyone wants to do that and like you know
you make different music whenyou're older, but it's not
necessarily what you should bedoing, like the entire time,
like you shouldn't be doing thesame thing.
No, no.
Andrew (11:56):
You should always try to like well.
It's hard to say what youshould do as a musician, but
like isn't the music you make.
Will (12:02):
I also don't want to tell anyone what to do.
So yeah, you can always ask thelike.
Andrew (12:05):
Isn't the music you make like an element or part of you,
as you are now or as you were,like that'll change a year from
now to years from now?
I think music changes becausepeople change yeah.
Will (12:15):
And actually that's a valid point.
So, if someone changes overthat career and like does
different music.
That's a totally differentthing.
Andrew (12:21):
Right Then, simply reviving, playing the same songs
for 40 years.
Will (12:26):
Like that's not valid.
Andrew (12:28):
Yeah, that's where it gets less like what's fresh in
2023 or any year and what's justlike, even if it, even if it's
charting and hitting hard, likeit ain't fresh Doesn't mean that
people don't like it or it'snot good.
Will (12:42):
But and the better question is like, what does it
mean to the person making itLike?
If I were to ask you know, mickJagger?
Like, what do you think of thelast 20 years worth of songs you
put out?
We think is that garbage?
Andrew (12:56):
or is that worth it, right?
I guess the question is theresponse he gives you.
Does he himself truly thinkthat he gave you a canned
response or a genuine response?
Right, right, it's hard to tell.
Yeah it's sort of the mysteryor the mystique of like entering
into the Authenticity of theartist space, because in this
(13:16):
day and age you have to.
It's right to question who'sauthentic and who's not.
Oh, absolutely, I think mostpeople making music are pretty
authentic, because it's hard tomake any sort of a lot of yeah.
Yeah, you ain't making theboo-boo, bucks making music,
unless you're one of the top,you know.
Will (13:33):
Well, and I go back to post, post Malone a lot but, I'm
Like, understands music, writesmusic because it, because he
has to, and like I think thatguy's gonna make music till he
dies.
Yeah he's gonna be like alittle almost like well, in
Elson type.
Andrew (13:50):
Oh, it's like a default for him, like there's no other.
Yeah, this is what I do.
Will (13:53):
Yeah, and it doesn't matter if it's successful, it's
great that it's successful now.
But I think Hit like likeWillie Nelson to like he will do
that forever.
Yeah, like Willie Nelson isgoing to die soon.
He is the music, but yeah, he'sgonna keep doing that.
Yeah, until until it's over.
Andrew (14:13):
I like that.
I mean it's neither good norbad.
I I have deep appreciation,respect for anyone who's like.
My Point on this earth is tomake the sound that pleases
people and makes them feelAnything, something more than
nothing.
Will (14:29):
Well, and not even that.
I think it's more about.
My purpose on this earth is toGet this thing out of me right
and share it with people.
Okay, yeah, like just toproduce that sound, that sounds
that minimizes it to me.
Yeah.
Andrew (14:44):
Yep, you're right.
Will (14:44):
You're right.
Yeah, I mean feel free todisagree.
Andrew (14:47):
No, no, I think you're totally right, yeah, and my
question is like is that harderto do these days than before?
Oh, that's a good question.
Yeah, I think.
I mean it's easier in some ways.
It's easier to do it.
Will (15:00):
I think it's harder to do it technical part of it and
share.
I think it's easier to share itwith people.
Andrew (15:05):
Mm-hmm.
Will (15:06):
I think it's harder to do it and actualize it.
Andrew (15:08):
Yes, it's harder to get their actual attention.
Will (15:11):
Well, no, it's harder to actualize it yourself, gotcha, I
.
Andrew (15:15):
Mean?
Do you think that's true?
I think it is still harder toget people's attention Just
because of the glut of well, no,I mean, do you think it's
harder to actualize it as anindividual?
In this day and age?
Yeah, depends.
For me personally it probablywould be.
Then it would have been 10 20years ago.
I can't say that for everyone,though.
Will (15:34):
Well, yeah, but, yeah, but I think I think that's for me
that's the crux of it is like itis harder to actualize creation
that is worthwhile yes, that'swhere that's the linchpin.
It is easier to disseminateanything, yes.
Create, yeah, which?
Andrew (15:51):
which is great.
You can make something prettyeasily, it can be pretty good,
pretty easily and people couldpretty much like enjoy it and
listen to it.
But to like to have a namepeople remember or to like Bring
someone to tears, like Well,music, and to make that true to
yourself.
Will (16:09):
Yeah, I think, yeah, I think, yeah, I think we'll have
a less hard concept of self,right.
Andrew (16:13):
I guess what you're saying is like To not do that on
purpose, but to do that becauseyou're just doing, you're just
creating what you know and thinkand yeah, because you're trying
really hard to create that yeah, yeah.
Like I always say to myself,would this person be creating
music in a vacuum, like if noone listened to it, no one
(16:35):
bought it and there's no marketfor it, where they still make it
?
And for many artist answers yes, despite what non-musicians
might think that's crazy, butlike you got to think about like
an impulse or like an urge.
Will (16:49):
Well, yeah there was a name for people like that before
yeah, outside artists yeah sonow I think outside artists are
the inside artists, right, so tospeak.
Like Everyone who's making artand has any sort of reach for on
the platform is gonna put itout there, mm-hmm, or should.
Mm-hmm or may try to.
Yeah, I mean there aredifferent levels to that too,
(17:10):
but what I'm saying is anoutsider artist now is so far
from the fringe.
I got you like before it waslike you know people like Daniel
Johnston, who he has like acult following among a lot of
musicians and made a lot ofsongs that people have covered,
(17:32):
Mm-hmm.
But someone like that now Imean they might be on streaming
services, Mm-hmm, you know it's.
It's a different Environmentand ecosystem.
Andrew (17:42):
I think it's a completely different ecosystem,
and that's Like the structure ofhow music works as an economy,
but also like a collective ofartists and meaning-making
individuals who are constantlycreating and sharing and
disseminating.
Like you start changing some ofthe formulas and some of the
agents in that system and thewhole product is different,
(18:03):
right?
Yeah, I mean we still havemusic.
It's still music, but the wayit's made, the way it's listened
to and the type of peoplelisten to.
What I've all radically changed.
Oh yeah totally like we're notthat old in our lifetime, like,
which is yeah, and we're likenot even halfway to 40 and we
can chart, like in the last 20years of our experience in music
(18:24):
, like changes.
So I mean that maybe that'sbeen true for every generation
coming and like change kind ofsneaks up on you.
I don't know that it has beenthough.
Will (18:33):
I don't think so I think.
Andrew (18:34):
I think change has gotten faster.
Will (18:36):
Yeah, I hope I'm open to not being different than the
last generation, but I thinkthings are moving faster.
Andrew (18:43):
I think things are moving faster and I think the
acceleration and the speed areboth factors unto themselves.
The faster we move, the fasterwe change, the more different
things get, even though they'realready getting different.
Yeah, so I wonder what kind ofyou know like, what kind of
impermeable, like jelly fluxworld will enter, once
everything is nothing andnothing is everything right and
(19:05):
like music is no longer.
Will (19:09):
Well, let's right, does it ?
Do we lose reality?
Or let's ground up a littlemore, because I was gonna ask
let's land that plane.
Where do you see that falling?
Next, because we are in an ageof next?
Yeah, going back to post Malone, like that's hard.
He got famous on SoundCloud.
Soundcloud doesn't matteranymore.
Andrew (19:27):
It's a million dollar question, so what's next million
dollar question quantum music.
Will (19:34):
What does that mean?
Andrew (19:35):
don't know yet.
When they invent, it will know.
Will (19:41):
I'll tell you what I think snag.
I Think niche markets are gonnafind a way to collaborate
better.
Okay, things like bandcamp aregoing to Not be bought by bigger
entities, Mm-hmm.
And there's gonna be some aninjection of like a lot of like
micro Environments that peoplecan share and collaborate on
(20:05):
right, like an economy ofsmaller economies right.
Andrew (20:08):
Yeah like, like there's layers to this, as opposed to be
one massive sort of yeah, Idon't know what products, yeah,
what made up names that's gonnabe right or what, how that lives
.
Will (20:19):
But I think that's how it moves forward.
You know the positive outlook.
Andrew (20:22):
I Mean, that's the way it's going.
It just it's happeningorganically.
Already we are trending towardlike this we are.
We're dispersing the authoritywithin music.
You know, in old structuresauthority like it was like a
top-down sort of thing.
Yeah, it was like this and nowit seems to be like a
crowdsource or crowd, sort ofcrowd engaged like, like what
(20:44):
the people want, filters upwardyeah it's people searching as
opposed to people telling peopleexactly to be searching right.
Will (20:53):
And and I think there's a lot of micro environments that
could be made to like make iteasier to access those types of
music, sir, like those Creativepeople that are engaged, I think
that's a sound, so I got sound.
Andrew (21:04):
Tip Is that sounds like a sound, to the way of the
future of thinking about musicis not in an essence of like
People are told what they likeor people are Prescribed the
type of music that we said themachine sort of generates.
The machine is simply reactingto what people's input across
Google, facebook, socials,conversations that your phone
(21:27):
listens to.
Will (21:27):
Well, I don't even think that.
I think the machine movesSlowly enough.
Andrew (21:32):
Mm-hmm where we can be more reactive right, it can't be
okay, where people can, likepeople can affect the way the
machine.
Yeah, absolutely.
Will (21:41):
I.
Andrew (21:43):
Hope that's.
I hope that's the new.
I hope that's the new way I.
Will (21:46):
Mean it's I don't know, but yeah, but that seems like
how it's going, it doesn'tpreclude any bad things.
Andrew (21:52):
That like that could, that could very well happen, and
bad things could also happen atthe same time.
Will (21:55):
I mean bad and bitter binary, you know yeah, I don't
really need to think in thoseterms.
Andrew (22:00):
Well, generally I think of less music is bad and less
people interested in music isbad, and I hope that's not the
case I I mean to some degree.
Will (22:08):
things just happen, yeah, so we'll let them happen how
they happen but that's true.
Andrew (22:13):
I guess, like you said, like I said, like you know, if
less people listen to music,that's not necessarily Going to
spell, let's say, the end of theearth.
Will (22:23):
Oh yeah, it could be a more engaged group.
Right, right, it could be aless engaged group.
And then we need to have morecreative individuals come in
music.
You know like they're.
It's all out of gym flows, yeah.
Andrew (22:38):
I mean music changes too , just like the way people
listen to it and the way peopleare who listen to it.
Like it always makes me, yeah,to ask the question, of course,
like what is what's the futuremodel, like what's the what's
the way or the sound of it all,let's say, 30 years from now.
Like If, if 5,000 random peopleguessed, maybe one got it right
(22:59):
, they'd be very lucky.
But like it's hard to likethat's, that's, that's the
million dollar question.
Like I said, like it's hard toknow, I don't think, I don't
think.
Will (23:07):
I want to know that either .
Like I don't think I I'm sayingthe future way is this.
I'm just saying this is where Ithink it's going right.
The future way, that's kind oflike Too abstract and it's
unimportant Because we won't bethere.
Andrew (23:26):
No, until we are.
But then we won't be like wow,well, I mean we'll be dead.
Will (23:31):
Oh, you mean like okay, probably, yeah, um, like I think
, thinking about how we affectthis immediate future, hmm is
more, more important?
Andrew (23:40):
No, obviously like living in the present and and
using an experiencing art in apresent state of mind right is,
I think, not the only way to doit, but it's a very good way to
do it.
I mean, I think, a presentstate of mind is like I think
everyone agrees like be presentWell you'd be surprised.
Well, speaking of, everything isnothing and nothing is
(24:01):
everything.
There's a band callednothingness and their album,
super liminal, is what Iconsider a, a very esoteric dive
into like Nasty, technicaldeath metal.
Like I, I consider it the realshit.
Will (24:21):
I mean, it's like it's a good nasty technical good, good,
like when you talk about deathmetal.
Andrew (24:27):
There's like good and like In the way that, like
frosted flakes are good, like ormcdonald's is good, like yeah,
of course it's good.
They've scientificallyengineered that shit to be
fucking delicious like.
Will (24:38):
But there's also, although the dichotomy is that it is
garbage.
Andrew (24:42):
Yeah, it is garbage.
It's like garbage but it's good, right.
But then there's like stuffthat's good, that you like.
Well, it looks cheaper or underproduced or looks like garbage,
but then you listen to it andlike it's the real deal, like
it's, like it's the essence thatyou've been looking for in a
certain style of music.
It can be found in that styleof music, right, and bands like
(25:03):
nothingness do it.
Um, but I thought ofnothingness because of
everything is nothing, nothingis everything.
So the reality of our worldtoday, taylor Swift.
Will (25:13):
I mean, actually I wanted to talk about the band nothing,
hmm, because I saw them.
Andrew (25:19):
Well, I thought so too.
Yeah, that's all I saw them.
Will (25:23):
Uh, they actually had a pretty underwhelming performance
.
I mean I don't want to naysaypeople on here, but yeah, I
don't know what didn't hit, butthe live performance of it
happens.
Yeah, didn't hit.
Andrew (25:33):
I mean, one of my favorite bands, wolves, in the
throne room.
I saw the first time an emptybottle Blew my socks off.
Like I literally looked for mysocks.
They were gone, yeah,disintegrated or you know some
kind of destruction.
Also killed my wife.
Oh wow, fucking slayed by thatshit, hurtful, couldn't stand up
.
She couldn't stand up.
(25:54):
I mean we had done a lot ofmarijuana's and everything, but
no, it was perfect.
But then I saw them again at afestival and the sound was bad
and I don't think it was theirfault, but also they just mean
outdoor events outdoor vencer.
This was indoor.
This was indoor festival.
Oh, okay, yeah, it was like aregular.
I guess the show is justhappened to have a lot of shows
at once with kind of a festivalIn nature.
Will (26:14):
But I mean, I did see nothing at Lincoln Hall, it's.
Andrew (26:18):
One of the best sound venues in the city, just didn't
hit.
Will (26:22):
It was bad, it's fair enough fair enough.
They did a bad job and I'm notproud of them.
Andrew (26:28):
Well, they're called nothing, yeah.
So I don't know what youexpected.
Will (26:33):
Uh but, no, taylor Swift in 2023.
Andrew (26:37):
For anyone who even has a remote awareness of music must
be aware that Taylor Swift wenton a Incredibly massive tour,
yeah, of the entire world.
A kill, a kill, them all to her.
Yeah you could say likeliterally, I think, one of the
biggest commercial successes inmusic Ever, ever.
Yeah, and she's the First.
(26:59):
Correct me if I'm wrongself-made music musician
billionaire.
Will (27:04):
Who's a woman Possibly?
Yeah, I mean Beyonce or her.
Andrew (27:08):
And obviously how you crunch the numbers and who has
more money, but but the pointstands, an incredibly successful
like Round of things that couldhave gone very bad, like some
tours go bad right, yeah, and toher credit, like she is in with
A list artists, indie artists,people across the board.
Will (27:32):
Yeah, like there's not.
I Don't hear bad things aboutTaylor.
Andrew (27:36):
Swift.
Will (27:37):
I mean, they're out there, if you look but they're not the
kind of criticisms, not fromindustry, they're not they're
not criticisms that could belevied with any sort of Any sort
of real level of metrics.
Andrew (27:49):
Yeah, yeah if you wanted to criticize Taylor Swift,
you'd have to like dig into likesociology and like popularity
and those sorts of things, andthat's not really what the I
mean.
Will (27:59):
Still, though, that to me that is crazy to have that kind
of like rep.
Yeah um, like one of myfavorite bands, the national, uh
, the desner brothers, theirguitarists like produce and
record her guitars, which iswild to me, like Finding someone
(28:19):
who you just like to work withand want to collaborate on the
level.
Uh, bony bear, she did the samething with him.
Bone I've her.
I don't know how you pronounceit.
Andrew (28:28):
But I've always said bony bear.
But sometimes when I read it Isay bone, I've her, yeah but I
mean she's collaborate with himlike I don't know she.
Will (28:36):
She seems to have a scope of like.
Hey, I understand being thisbig is important, but
Collaborating with people, thatmakes sense for me makes sense
too.
Andrew (28:48):
I think everyone in the right mind would like to think
if I were suddenly that big, Iwould try to do the right thing
right.
Will (28:54):
It's not all about being big, it's like not even the
right thing, it's like welcometo yeah, welcome to the world
I'm sort of helping create welland elevating other people right
right.
Um, like the national, thedesners were Trying to elevate
other people too, like SharonDennett, and came out of their
(29:14):
group like she was a backupsinger.
Um, I know they've worked withangel Olson and people like that
, so I don't know.
I think the trend of otherartists lifting up each other,
um is a good one to proliferate.
Andrew (29:29):
Yeah, I think it.
It's also a shout in the faceof like sort of the way we're
trained to think of our lives asinherently competitive.
Like yeah, why?
Like I don't think anyonemaking art should compete with
each other.
Like it's not a competition inany case.
Like it's, I mean I, I dounderstand the mentality of like
.
Will (29:47):
If we are in the same space, we are competitors.
But If you're in thiscollaborative Sort of mindset,
you lift each other out.
Andrew (29:57):
Exactly, yeah.
So it's sort of the idea oflike, working together, you both
can make more money than you'dboth make fighting each other
for whatever you, whatever youcould get right.
Will (30:07):
Yeah, I mean a good idea lifts, lifts Everyone else up,
it does yeah, so but uh, on thatnote, yeah, go ahead she.
She had this hugely successfultour um, probably the most
successful tour of any livingartist or dead one, Uh you were
telling me you went, you, youwalked by a movie screening of
(30:30):
the tour.
Yeah, I was how far removed.
Andrew (30:32):
Could you?
Will (30:32):
be so.
Andrew (30:33):
I was in la for the postal service show at the
Hollywood Bowl and she had herpremiere of A movie of her tour
at the Chinese theater and therewas a line a block long for
that, like if you're, if you'regoing meta and like In, like
doing movies of the tour or evenlike TVs of the movie, like,
(30:56):
and people are still lining up,you, you have something, you've
done something big yeah.
Will (31:01):
I mean we all know this, yeah, but it's insane.
It is insane the impact ofTaylor Swift in 2023.
I mean, like she did it, yeah,I think.
Andrew (31:13):
Whatever she was trying to do, she did it.
I think, as someone I don'tlisten to Taylor Swift Like the
music when it hits my ears doesnot.
I mean, I listen I've beentalking about brutal death metal
all episode Like it's not mystyle of music, but I have such
appreciation for someone who canspeak such complex language
(31:34):
that all music is to so manypeople and they all line up and
like how do you find that onecommon mess?
How do you find that one commonsound?
That's the hardest thing to everdo.
It's a feat, yeah, I mean anyone, anyone with really good chops
and some good riffs and maybesome beer and weed and some
(31:55):
tattoos, because they listen toheavy metal and like plays death
metal, like I will enjoy it,like right.
But to find like to be.
To find specific interests andnail those, that's one thing.
But to to find a broad appealand then just like make it even
bigger is.
Will (32:09):
Well and also have a broad appeal and make good music.
Yes, yes.
Andrew (32:13):
Like music that people like.
Well, when I consider goodmusic, I don't.
I try not to say do I thinkit's good.
I try to say do people findactual meaning in this?
Right, well, and is it wellcrafted?
Yes, I like, yeah, like, is it?
Is it like a?
Is a?
I'm trying to find the word.
Is it?
It's not just thrown together,it's no, it's cared for, well,
(32:37):
cared for, cared for like in allthese collaborations, to, like,
the designers are huge guitarplayers.
Will (32:43):
Like I mean, if I can get Aaron Desne to play a song I was
making, I would do an arcadelike you know, but she just has
this talent for Collaboration aswell as, like her own talent.
Right, this is not to likedownplay Taylor Swift, which I
(33:04):
would never do.
How could you?
I mean hands off to?
But no, I mean she has a talentfor collaboration, business,
all the stuff that, like, makesit work together.
Andrew (33:16):
I think, overall, the big message from Taylor Swift is
that music is not dead.
Oh, yeah, yeah, I mean, we knowthat, you and I know that, but
there's plenty of people who aresick of the same old, same old.
Will (33:28):
I mean the people saying music, or music is dead are the
same people that were sayingguitar is dead, like five years
ago that's true, that's true,yeah.
You know, but there are peoplewho don't want to see a creative
energy be productive, right.
Andrew (33:41):
But when it happens, so they understand that creative
energy doesn't always produceRight.
Will (33:46):
Like you could spend 20 years making your magnum opus
and no one gets it and no onewants to buy it until you're
dead.
Andrew (33:54):
No, we're talking.
We're talking where thisconversation enters, like the X
factor level, the, the almostlike long games yeah.
Almost like untouchable elementto specifically Taylor Swift.
That's something that way Idescribe it is that she is so
musical Like she is.
She breathes, eats and sleepsmusic like more than any of us
(34:16):
could Like, do you?
Do you see what I mean?
Like?
Will (34:20):
I don't know if I agree with that.
Andrew (34:22):
Well, her name is like Taylor.
I mean like her identity ispart of this.
Yeah, she's what was massiverepresentation of what music is
for all people.
Yeah.
Like she stands there and that'sher name in front of that.
Will (34:34):
But, I think, I think she has those qualities.
I don't know if she eats,breathes and sleeps it.
Andrew (34:43):
Yeah, I don't mean to be so, you know exaggerated, but
you know what I mean.
Like yeah, yeah.
I have deep respect, even thoughit's not the type of music I
listen to, for someone who is sothoroughly versed in the
ability to communicate throughmusic.
Will (34:57):
That's that blows my mind.
Yeah, no, it's, it's a talent,yeah.
Andrew (35:00):
I mean across the world, across cultures, like people
were completely different.
Will (35:05):
Yeah, I mean, the only similar type of comparison I can
think of off the top of my headis like Mr Bean.
Andrew (35:12):
Mr Bean yeah.
I mean like the British.
Will (35:15):
Community yeah.
Andrew (35:16):
Ron Atkinson as far as like universal appeal or
something as far as reach, oh,reach, reach, yeah.
Will (35:21):
Like to be Mr Bean is universal, like that physical
comedy.
Yes, and I'm not trying to likedownplay Taylor's music in any
way.
Andrew (35:30):
No, no, no, I'm just saying like direct comparison.
Will (35:33):
Whatever nerve or thing that hits is like universal,
yeah.
So I think to be that kind oftalent takes a certain person.
Andrew (35:42):
We always say that to write good music you have to be.
You have to be your most humanself right.
You have to be your most selfand like work with the music not
as a product or as a commodityor as like an economic search or
interest or anything, but aslike a personal thing.
Will (36:01):
Yeah, something tapping at your core.
Andrew (36:03):
Exactly, and for some people that's a very specific
thing.
Some people is very general,but for very few people is that
like does that feedback loopthen get generated where it's
like right, she feeds thispersonal like, this, this need
or desire to create music, andshe does it, but then the world,
just like, keeps feeding herright, it's like more and more
and more and, like any, likeanyone in her shoes, she's like,
(36:26):
yeah, let's, let's do it, let'sdo the biggest thing anyone
could ever do in this world ofmusic, and that's actually
that's a good segue to Andre3000, his first record in many,
many years since outcasts andbig boy.
Will (36:41):
I mean he made this like super weird, super expressive
experimental album with likeflutes and it really hit the
mark.
Is this shit like avant-garde?
I mean?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean Ithink it's he is main.
He has enough influence alreadyjust by being who he is that he
(37:03):
was able to push the sort ofweird avant-garde music into
like the mainstream.
Yes, which I mean I don't evenknow if there's a precedent for
like what kind of music he wasmaking, but but it's a really
awesome record.
That was just completelystraight from the heart.
Andrew (37:22):
Like is it sort of one of those where you hear it and
you hear it like you just know?
Will (37:26):
as a music lover you just like yeah for casual listeners
to it, right.
I think it hits, I mean kind ofin that same way that Taylor
Swift does, where it's like thisis universally like good yeah.
Andrew (37:42):
It's so hard to like consider objective facts and
music criticism, but whensomething is, when you have
millions of people likeclamoring to get into your show,
you're not going to argue witheach one of those people.
Will (37:54):
No, and the Andre 3000 album was a little bit different
, where like yeah, yeah, yeahyeah.
There might not be a liveversion of it that works, right,
but this record that he madereally works.
Yes, yes, like he really did agood job of like coming back out
here.
Andrew (38:08):
Even I have heard about it in my far removed you know
death and doom metal circlesLike these people, even in like
niche scenes that generally kindof sometimes reject other
spaces of music or evenmainstream spaces of music.
Once you see those people evensaying there's definite respect
here, then you have to know likeyes, yeah, and that's bridge
(38:31):
that gap.
Will (38:32):
Yeah, that's being a true musician to like, finding where
there is a pocket to learnsomething.
Yes, because there is alwayssomething to learn from someone
else.
Andrew (38:40):
Oh my God, yeah, if you.
If you don't believe that, thenyou're not A good luck.
Will (38:45):
Yeah, you're not doing work.
Yeah, yeah.
Andrew (38:46):
Yeah, that.
No, you're right, that's a goodway to put it.
That is some of the actual workof making music is learning.
Will (38:52):
Yeah, I mean good luck, and good bye is what I would say
.
Yeah.
Andrew (38:55):
I mean, a lot of people take learning as like a passive
activity, but once you hit acertain age it just isn't.
You have to actively.
Will (39:00):
Yeah, yeah, and you should always be learning is a firm
belief I have, oh yeah.
Andrew (39:05):
That's another.
That's not a sound saga, soundtip, that's sound sagas.
You must do this.
Hashtag life tip.
You must keep learning If youstop learning.
Will (39:15):
Yeah, unsubscribe yeah.
Andrew (39:17):
Get out of here, we don't want you.
I love that we can talk about,you know, wormhole and Taylor
Swift and sort of like.
I mean two different, like oneno one knows about it.
Completely and totally offgenre music, kind of hidden by
the wayside.
You know, I would sayunderappreciated, even though I
don't blame anyone for notwanting to listen to a guy like
(39:41):
gutturally belch the whole time,even how impressive it is, I
mean, and how it might have beenaesthetically pleasing.
It is yeah.
But at the same stroke, likeTaylor Swift, like don't you see
the world?
We I'm not as I'm not sayingthat you don't.
I'm saying rhetorically, likedon't you see the, the gifts
we've given ourselves as humans,as far as music and the value
(40:02):
and any level you want, exactlyAny level you want to access you
?
can find that value.
Will (40:06):
Right, like you will find people.
Andrew (40:08):
You will find artists.
You will find artists.
You will find artists.
You will find artists.
You will find artists.
You will find artists thatdon't give you that value.
That's fine, but you will nevernot find someone Right.
Right, there's something foreveryone, and I, I truly do
believe that, even though Ican't prove it.
Will (40:24):
Oh, absolutely.
Andrew (40:25):
I mean, I don't think that's, but if anything makes
that more clear is that TaylorSwift showed the world like hey,
buddy, how's you wanna see howit's done?
You see how it's done.
Yeah, hey, you want to seemusic being there.
It's how it's done and like weall stood by and we're very
impressed.
Oh, for a lifetime I was happy.
I was when I when I read aboutthat tour being a massive
(40:47):
success and that she gave hugebonuses and tips to people and,
like that, all the fans werelike this was amazing and the
show was great.
I'm like like it can be done atscale If the biggest complaint
is that you can't get ticketsfor a show.
Will (41:01):
Yeah, that's the best complaint you can have.
Andrew (41:03):
Well, it wasn't the whole, like the whole online
buying thing, a huge.
Will (41:07):
No, I mean, and she and Robert Smith slapped ticket,
ticket master that was the thing.
Andrew (41:12):
like ticket master tried to do some paperwork.
Will (41:17):
Those companies don't work at scale no, which she proved,
and the cures proved no.
Then they need to do someremodeling?
Andrew (41:26):
Yeah, because they've.
They didn't.
They probably didn't realizewhat they were sort of up
against or kind of coming up toas far as the popularity.
Will (41:35):
I don't think they cared, but I think they care now yeah.
Andrew (41:40):
They care now because they know they can make more
money if they do a better job.
Will (41:43):
Yeah.
Andrew (41:44):
Yeah, anyway, that's, that's a whole debacle.
That's like.
Well, that's all the great musicat 20 for you.
We also have like ticket masterand yeah and like show prices,
and we can name a bunch of otherthings that are kind of a kind
of stinking up our realm.
But all told, we'll live, we'llsurvive as long as we have, you
(42:04):
know, the music we came for.
So like subscribe engage.
I think, engage is the word wetell people.
Will (42:09):
Yeah, engage, give us some ratings.
Do you like this, do you?
Andrew (42:12):
not like this.
You can hit those buttonsunderneath the video to any of
them.
Will (42:18):
Yeah, let's poke them.
Andrew (42:19):
Well, what we really want to say is we appreciate you
.
We have good things in storethis year.
We had a good year last yearlistening to so much music.
We can't wait to talk moreabout it and share it and just
like be excited about it.
As you can tell we're we getgiddy about this stuff.
Will (42:34):
Yeah, yeah.
So keep listening, keepwatching, keep subscribing.
Yeah, all right See you soonBye.
Bye.
Welcome to Sound Saga's.
It's 2020, and it has been forlike 20 days, but 2023 just
passed.
And what a doozy that was.
It went fast.
Yes, it was like January 2023,and then December 2023.
And in that span, maybe six orseven million albums came out,
(00:42):
maybe eight.
Maybe eight yeah a lot of newmusic, no shortage of things to
talk about.
Obviously, the year in contextand the year in like grand scope
, like puts in the frameworkwhat these albums mean, right.
Will (00:58):
I mean we had the whole gamut interesting no toast
challenging.
Andrew (01:02):
What is this post, covid ?
Like you know, it's like posteverything kind of
world-rentering.
A lot of the music is changing,a lot of the world is changing
and we can only sit by anddocument and talk about what
happens.
Will (01:14):
Yeah, well, I live in it, yeah.
Andrew (01:16):
Oh yeah, in sometimes bad ways.
So, yeah, good and bad, but Iwill say, sitting down, even
after a bad 2023 day, sittingdown and exploring 2023 music
was a constant recurrence ofpleasures for me, like again and
again, I found things that Iwas like this is, this sounds
(01:39):
now, this sounds like youcouldn't have released this last
year or two years ago, yeah,and like coming back to things
that seemed really interestingand still maintain that value
throughout the year.
Will (01:52):
I know, yeah.
Andrew (01:53):
That replay value is so, so golden, especially when
things like preserve for betteror worse part of the time that
they came from.
I think every year has this,but in 10, 20 years we'll see
more clearly what it was about2023 music that helped preserve
kind of these, like guys right,like what it feels like.
Will (02:15):
What do you think?
One of your most listened toalbums in 2023 was Wormhole.
Andrew (02:20):
Wormhole Definitely the new album by Wormhole.
It's guttural, brutal deathmetal in the style of like hyper
technical riffing and lots ofcomplicated drumming and a lot
of noise combined with very deep, very low, very like not
projected but sort of summonedguttural utterances.
Will (02:43):
What was the album title?
The?
Andrew (02:45):
band was Wormhole, the band's Wormhole.
The album title is calledAlmost Human.
Almost Human.
Yeah, let me check myreferences here just to make
sure I don't mix it up with 17other albums.
But yeah, there's a golfbetween like what you consider
like technical metal, where it'smostly about the guitar,
(03:07):
calisthenics or the ability toplay.
But Wormhole to me, and why Ilike it so much, is that they
sort of emulate the style ofbeing very good at their
instruments and they are.
But it's the vocal delivery andperformance that sells it.
It's the vocals.
And how often do you hearsomeone say I like guttural,
brutal death metal because ofthe vocals?
(03:28):
I mean not often, but actuallythinking about it, maybe more
often than not.
Will (03:34):
I mean, that stands out though.
Andrew (03:36):
It's sort of the defining characteristic right.
So like I listen to that againand, again and again.
It's also a very smooth album,despite how I describe it.
But yeah, almost Human is thetitle of the album.
Came out mid-2023.
Will (03:54):
Would you say it was comforting for you through that
year or I don't know.
Andrew (04:00):
I don't think anything about guttural, brutal,
technical death metal could becomforting, definitely cathartic
in that you know it's bleakmusic but it has.
There's beauty in the bleaknesswhich I always like to say
about some of this music Ilisten to.
Yeah yeah.
There's like a deft hand or adeft brushstroke to be painted
(04:23):
with.
So it offers insight, it doesyeah.
It's a lyrical insight, like itmight not be through the lyrics,
which, well, no, maybe prior toone side Like yeah, something
undescribable, or it's more ofan emotional Intangible.
Yeah, more of an emotionalfeeling, like there is, at least
with my experience, a wave of awarm, fuzzy wave when you hear
(04:46):
something that just and thisgoes for anyone who likes music
like that checks all the boxes.
Like not to say that this bandsimply checks the boxes and
that's all they do.
Will (04:54):
No, that's an excellent way to say it.
Andrew (04:56):
But they did check the boxes, yeah Things, check boxes.
Will (04:58):
That's a big thing.
It's a big thing In the self.
Andrew (05:02):
It's a big thing, especially for people like us
who have a lot of boxes in ourrepertoire.
Will (05:06):
So you know, right, we're we listen to a lot of music.
We're needy people.
Andrew (05:09):
Yeah, we are needy.
I don't want to put us on ahigh pedestal, because
absolutely not.
No.
No, I actually envy people whocan just kind of enjoy music.
But but I did find that myefforts in engaging with that
album were well, well paid off,and every time.
I listened to it.
It just felt like how could itbe so smooth?
(05:32):
I mean, I'm happy to hear thatI mean.
Will (05:34):
how could it be so smooth?
That's like that should be yourpull quote for that record?
Andrew (05:38):
Yes, I like that and also could be applied to Chuck
Mangione.
Will (05:42):
It could be applied to like really good scotch you know
like anything.
Andrew (05:48):
That's a great way to land on it, I mean why and I
wish I could play it to you andgrace your ears with the
wonderful sounds of a man- Ithink you should listen to it.
We should, I wish, we could, Iwish it wasn't copyrighted.
Will (06:01):
Oh no, you all should listen to it.
Andrew (06:03):
Oh they should, yeah, they should actually click it no
no, we've already heard it, butI'll hear it again yes, right
now, whatever you're doing, keepthis tab open.
Make sure we're still talking,like, don't put us away.
Will (06:16):
Yeah, don't do that.
Listen to us on repeat.
Yeah, and then open another tabor window.
Yep.
Andrew (06:21):
Listen to this Yep Type in wormhole almost human and
you'll find it on bandcamp.
And I'm curious to what anyonewho has never heard like
anything heavier than metallicor a megadeth or something, or
like Romstein maybe, I wonder.
I wonder how that kind of likethis is like a deeper cut right
Like you don't just happenacross this band.
(06:42):
I wonder what people who havecompletely fresh ears would make
of this gentleman's vocalperformance.
Will (06:49):
So would you recommend this band to anyone who's
looking for something a littlebit heavier than Romstein or
Metacor or Megadeth.
Andrew (06:57):
Like if it's your first foray into, like, the deeper
world of underground metal, thiswould be a nice stopping point.
Will (07:06):
Yeah.
Andrew (07:07):
I mean that's a pretty far, pretty quick.
So yeah, it's a sound.
So I guess top tip right.
Listen to wormhole Sounds likea top tip what about you.
Is that what we call?
those top tips, no I stole thatfrom Top Gear, so we might get
sued.
Will (07:20):
Okay, well, we won't get sued, but no Well, we had a word
for like soundsock as hot tipsor something Top tips.
Andrew (07:28):
I did say top tip because I did steal that from
Top Gear, but we sound like asound tip, something like that.
No, that's too easy.
Will (07:34):
Yeah, yeah, I don't know.
Yeah, I mean to me I guess themost listens, most impactful.
I went back to an old album bythe Postal Service because they
did their first like reuniontour and many, many number of
(07:55):
years last year Went to LA, sawthem.
It was awesome.
But they also re-released theiralbum with a bunch of B-sides
and stuff, so that was supertopical and cool to listen to.
I mean, I've been a big fan ofall of them for a long time.
But the tour was extragratifying because, as an older
(08:20):
person, I guess in like digitalspaces to see them perform
they're like kind of my nextstep.
So, like Ben Gibbard and GinnyLewis have both had records out
when I was a teenager before Iwas a teenager and so they
(08:41):
played death capricuity songs,postal Service songs, ginny
Lewis songs and it was just likea huge explosion of cool music.
Andrew (08:51):
It's like a fucking smorgasbord of everything.
Yeah, it was like eating it up.
Will (08:55):
Yeah, and then the records come out.
I mean I'm wearing the hoodieright now for that concert, but
yeah, I mean that sustained methroughout the year.
And then I found out they'retouring again, you know, coming
into 2024.
So going to see more of thatthis year and I think they're
(09:17):
getting a lot of young fans,like Ginny Lewis had another
record come out last year JoyY'all.
Andrew (09:23):
Right Active, like after 10 years or so or whatever it
was.
Yeah, it came out.
Yeah, no one just comes backand to an empty stadium.
Will (09:31):
Well, I mean, she was opening for Harry Styles and,
like, has a lot of young fans.
Andrew (09:34):
I was signing with Postal Service.
Will (09:35):
Yeah, but yeah, Postal Service.
I mean that band was defunctand though it's reunited and
invigorated, I also said youinvade Momstein.
Andrew (09:48):
I'm like that's what I was tripping into.
Will (09:51):
Because they had a course come out on True Fire.
But say and spell has been alot.
That's hilarious.
So, yeah, ginny Lewis had arecord come out and was doing
Postal Service thing.
Now she's back on a solo tour,ben Gibbard is back with Duff
(10:11):
Capacuti on Baron tour, and theyhave new music as well.
So it's just like a plethora ofthings to digest from them this
year.
Andrew (10:20):
Is it totally typical early 2000s live?
I'm talking like 2010s, 2020s,2030s.
Are we going to be in this ageof constant like band is gone,
but now band is back, like isthat the norm?
Will (10:34):
I mean, people are going to start dying.
So I don't think, so I thinkwell, eventually, yeah, you
can't come.
Andrew (10:41):
Well, holograms, see, like that's a big question.
Yeah it's like are we?
Are we ending the death ofcelebrities Right?
Will (10:51):
So, yeah, I think there's a weird thing to spend that with
.
So the Rolling Stones have beengoing forever.
Right, that's one way to do it.
Andrew (10:59):
They are human skeletons .
Now, and yes, obviously.
Will (11:02):
And I mean it sounds bad, but it's fun to watch Postal
Service.
They do a show or a tour everyfive or 10 years.
It seems like once people startdying, I don't know.
I don't know if holograms aregoing to write.
Andrew (11:20):
Some artists will simply not agree to them.
Will (11:22):
Yeah, I think it'll be.
There'll be enough stuff inplace to say, like you can't
make a hologram of me and dothis.
Andrew (11:30):
There will be that and people have already said do not
represent me in any way withholograms.
Will (11:36):
Yeah, once I pass yeah.
So I do think, the RollingStones model is going to retire
where it's like you got to dothis forever.
Andrew (11:43):
Yeah, because.
Will (11:44):
I don't think anyone wants to do that and like you know
you make different music whenyou're older, but it's not
necessarily what you should bedoing, like the entire time,
like you shouldn't be doing thesame thing.
No, no.
Andrew (11:56):
You should always try to like well.
It's hard to say what youshould do as a musician, but
like isn't the music you make.
Will (12:02):
I also don't want to tell anyone what to do.
So yeah, you can always ask thelike.
Andrew (12:05):
Isn't the music you make like an element or part of you,
as you are now or as you were,like that'll change a year from
now to years from now?
I think music changes becausepeople change yeah.
Will (12:15):
And actually that's a valid point.
So, if someone changes overthat career and like does
different music.
That's a totally differentthing.
Andrew (12:21):
Right Then, simply reviving, playing the same songs
for 40 years.
Will (12:26):
Like that's not valid.
Andrew (12:28):
Yeah, that's where it gets less like what's fresh in
2023 or any year and what's justlike, even if it, even if it's
charting and hitting hard, likeit ain't fresh Doesn't mean that
people don't like it or it'snot good.
Will (12:42):
But and the better question is like, what does it
mean to the person making itLike?
If I were to ask you know, mickJagger?
Like, what do you think of thelast 20 years worth of songs you
put out?
We think is that garbage?
Andrew (12:56):
or is that worth it, right?
I guess the question is theresponse he gives you.
Does he himself truly thinkthat he gave you a canned
response or a genuine response?
Right, right, it's hard to tell.
Yeah it's sort of the mysteryor the mystique of like entering
into the Authenticity of theartist space, because in this
(13:16):
day and age you have to.
It's right to question who'sauthentic and who's not.
Oh, absolutely, I think mostpeople making music are pretty
authentic, because it's hard tomake any sort of a lot of yeah.
Yeah, you ain't making theboo-boo, bucks making music,
unless you're one of the top,you know.
Will (13:33):
Well, and I go back to post, post Malone a lot but, I'm
Like, understands music, writesmusic because it, because he
has to, and like I think thatguy's gonna make music till he
dies.
Yeah he's gonna be like alittle almost like well, in
Elson type.
Andrew (13:50):
Oh, it's like a default for him, like there's no other.
Yeah, this is what I do.
Will (13:53):
Yeah, and it doesn't matter if it's successful, it's
great that it's successful now.
But I think Hit like likeWillie Nelson to like he will do
that forever.
Yeah, like Willie Nelson isgoing to die soon.
He is the music, but yeah, he'sgonna keep doing that.
Yeah, until until it's over.
Andrew (14:13):
I like that.
I mean it's neither good norbad.
I I have deep appreciation,respect for anyone who's like.
My Point on this earth is tomake the sound that pleases
people and makes them feelAnything, something more than
nothing.
Will (14:29):
Well, and not even that.
I think it's more about.
My purpose on this earth is toGet this thing out of me right
and share it with people.
Okay, yeah, like just toproduce that sound, that sounds
that minimizes it to me.
Yeah.
Andrew (14:44):
Yep, you're right.
Will (14:44):
You're right.
Yeah, I mean feel free todisagree.
Andrew (14:47):
No, no, I think you're totally right, yeah, and my
question is like is that harderto do these days than before?
Oh, that's a good question.
Yeah, I think.
I mean it's easier in some ways.
It's easier to do it.
Will (15:00):
I think it's harder to do it technical part of it and
share.
I think it's easier to share itwith people.
Andrew (15:05):
Mm-hmm.
Will (15:06):
I think it's harder to do it and actualize it.
Andrew (15:08):
Yes, it's harder to get their actual attention.
Will (15:11):
Well, no, it's harder to actualize it yourself, gotcha, I
.
Andrew (15:15):
Mean?
Do you think that's true?
I think it is still harder toget people's attention Just
because of the glut of well, no,I mean, do you think it's
harder to actualize it as anindividual?
In this day and age?
Yeah, depends.
For me personally it probablywould be.
Then it would have been 10 20years ago.
I can't say that for everyone,though.
Will (15:34):
Well, yeah, but, yeah, but I think I think that's for me
that's the crux of it is like itis harder to actualize creation
that is worthwhile yes, that'swhere that's the linchpin.
It is easier to disseminateanything, yes.
Create, yeah, which?
Andrew (15:51):
which is great.
You can make something prettyeasily, it can be pretty good,
pretty easily and people couldpretty much like enjoy it and
listen to it.
But to like to have a namepeople remember or to like Bring
someone to tears, like Well,music, and to make that true to
yourself.
Will (16:09):
Yeah, I think, yeah, I think, yeah, I think we'll have
a less hard concept of self,right.
Andrew (16:13):
I guess what you're saying is like To not do that on
purpose, but to do that becauseyou're just doing, you're just
creating what you know and thinkand yeah, because you're trying
really hard to create that yeah, yeah.
Like I always say to myself,would this person be creating
music in a vacuum, like if noone listened to it, no one
(16:35):
bought it and there's no marketfor it, where they still make it
?
And for many artist answers yes, despite what non-musicians
might think that's crazy, butlike you got to think about like
an impulse or like an urge.
Will (16:49):
Well, yeah there was a name for people like that before
yeah, outside artists yeah sonow I think outside artists are
the inside artists, right, so tospeak.
Like Everyone who's making artand has any sort of reach for on
the platform is gonna put itout there, mm-hmm, or should.
Mm-hmm or may try to.
Yeah, I mean there aredifferent levels to that too,
(17:10):
but what I'm saying is anoutsider artist now is so far
from the fringe.
I got you like before it waslike you know people like Daniel
Johnston, who he has like acult following among a lot of
musicians and made a lot ofsongs that people have covered,
(17:32):
Mm-hmm.
But someone like that now Imean they might be on streaming
services, Mm-hmm, you know it's.
It's a different Environmentand ecosystem.
Andrew (17:42):
I think it's a completely different ecosystem,
and that's Like the structure ofhow music works as an economy,
but also like a collective ofartists and meaning-making
individuals who are constantlycreating and sharing and
disseminating.
Like you start changing some ofthe formulas and some of the
agents in that system and thewhole product is different,
(18:03):
right?
Yeah, I mean we still havemusic.
It's still music, but the wayit's made, the way it's listened
to and the type of peoplelisten to.
What I've all radically changed.
Oh yeah totally like we're notthat old in our lifetime, like,
which is yeah, and we're likenot even halfway to 40 and we
can chart, like in the last 20years of our experience in music
(18:24):
, like changes.
So I mean that maybe that'sbeen true for every generation
coming and like change kind ofsneaks up on you.
I don't know that it has beenthough.
Will (18:33):
I don't think so I think.
Andrew (18:34):
I think change has gotten faster.
Will (18:36):
Yeah, I hope I'm open to not being different than the
last generation, but I thinkthings are moving faster.
Andrew (18:43):
I think things are moving faster and I think the
acceleration and the speed areboth factors unto themselves.
The faster we move, the fasterwe change, the more different
things get, even though they'realready getting different.
Yeah, so I wonder what kind ofyou know like, what kind of
impermeable, like jelly fluxworld will enter, once
everything is nothing andnothing is everything right and
(19:05):
like music is no longer.
Will (19:09):
Well, let's right, does it ?
Do we lose reality?
Or let's ground up a littlemore, because I was gonna ask
let's land that plane.
Where do you see that falling?
Next, because we are in an ageof next?
Yeah, going back to post Malone, like that's hard.
He got famous on SoundCloud.
Soundcloud doesn't matteranymore.
Andrew (19:27):
It's a million dollar question, so what's next million
dollar question quantum music.
Will (19:34):
What does that mean?
Andrew (19:35):
don't know yet.
When they invent, it will know.
Will (19:41):
I'll tell you what I think snag.
I Think niche markets are gonnafind a way to collaborate
better.
Okay, things like bandcamp aregoing to Not be bought by bigger
entities, Mm-hmm.
And there's gonna be some aninjection of like a lot of like
micro Environments that peoplecan share and collaborate on
(20:05):
right, like an economy ofsmaller economies right.
Andrew (20:08):
Yeah like, like there's layers to this, as opposed to be
one massive sort of yeah, Idon't know what products, yeah,
what made up names that's gonnabe right or what, how that lives
.
Will (20:19):
But I think that's how it moves forward.
You know the positive outlook.
Andrew (20:22):
I Mean, that's the way it's going.
It just it's happeningorganically.
Already we are trending towardlike this we are.
We're dispersing the authoritywithin music.
You know, in old structuresauthority like it was like a
top-down sort of thing.
Yeah, it was like this and nowit seems to be like a
crowdsource or crowd, sort ofcrowd engaged like, like what
(20:44):
the people want, filters upwardyeah it's people searching as
opposed to people telling peopleexactly to be searching right.
Will (20:53):
And and I think there's a lot of micro environments that
could be made to like make iteasier to access those types of
music, sir, like those Creativepeople that are engaged, I think
that's a sound, so I got sound.
Andrew (21:04):
Tip Is that sounds like a sound, to the way of the
future of thinking about musicis not in an essence of like
People are told what they likeor people are Prescribed the
type of music that we said themachine sort of generates.
The machine is simply reactingto what people's input across
Google, facebook, socials,conversations that your phone
(21:27):
listens to.
Will (21:27):
Well, I don't even think that.
I think the machine movesSlowly enough.
Andrew (21:32):
Mm-hmm where we can be more reactive right, it can't be
okay, where people can, likepeople can affect the way the
machine.
Yeah, absolutely.
Will (21:41):
I.
Andrew (21:43):
Hope that's.
I hope that's the new.
I hope that's the new way I.
Will (21:46):
Mean it's I don't know, but yeah, but that seems like
how it's going, it doesn'tpreclude any bad things.
Andrew (21:52):
That like that could, that could very well happen, and
bad things could also happen atthe same time.
Will (21:55):
I mean bad and bitter binary, you know yeah, I don't
really need to think in thoseterms.
Andrew (22:00):
Well, generally I think of less music is bad and less
people interested in music isbad, and I hope that's not the
case I I mean to some degree.
Will (22:08):
things just happen, yeah, so we'll let them happen how
they happen but that's true.
Andrew (22:13):
I guess, like you said, like I said, like you know, if
less people listen to music,that's not necessarily Going to
spell, let's say, the end of theearth.
Will (22:23):
Oh yeah, it could be a more engaged group.
Right, right, it could be aless engaged group.
And then we need to have morecreative individuals come in
music.
You know like they're.
It's all out of gym flows, yeah.
Andrew (22:38):
I mean music changes too , just like the way people
listen to it and the way peopleare who listen to it.
Like it always makes me, yeah,to ask the question, of course,
like what is what's the futuremodel, like what's the what's
the way or the sound of it all,let's say, 30 years from now.
Like If, if 5,000 random peopleguessed, maybe one got it right
(22:59):
, they'd be very lucky.
But like it's hard to likethat's, that's, that's the
million dollar question.
Like I said, like it's hard toknow, I don't think, I don't
think.
Will (23:07):
I want to know that either .
Like I don't think I I'm sayingthe future way is this.
I'm just saying this is where Ithink it's going right.
The future way, that's kind oflike Too abstract and it's
unimportant Because we won't bethere.
Andrew (23:26):
No, until we are.
But then we won't be like wow,well, I mean we'll be dead.
Will (23:31):
Oh, you mean like okay, probably, yeah, um, like I think
, thinking about how we affectthis immediate future, hmm is
more, more important?
Andrew (23:40):
No, obviously like living in the present and and
using an experiencing art in apresent state of mind right is,
I think, not the only way to doit, but it's a very good way to
do it.
I mean, I think, a presentstate of mind is like I think
everyone agrees like be presentWell you'd be surprised.
Well, speaking of, everything isnothing and nothing is
(24:01):
everything.
There's a band callednothingness and their album,
super liminal, is what Iconsider a, a very esoteric dive
into like Nasty, technicaldeath metal.
Like I, I consider it the realshit.
Will (24:21):
I mean, it's like it's a good nasty technical good, good,
like when you talk about deathmetal.
Andrew (24:27):
There's like good and like In the way that, like
frosted flakes are good, like ormcdonald's is good, like yeah,
of course it's good.
They've scientificallyengineered that shit to be
fucking delicious like.
Will (24:38):
But there's also, although the dichotomy is that it is
garbage.
Andrew (24:42):
Yeah, it is garbage.
It's like garbage but it's good, right.
But then there's like stuffthat's good, that you like.
Well, it looks cheaper or underproduced or looks like garbage,
but then you listen to it andlike it's the real deal, like
it's, like it's the essence thatyou've been looking for in a
certain style of music.
It can be found in that styleof music, right, and bands like
(25:03):
nothingness do it.
Um, but I thought ofnothingness because of
everything is nothing, nothingis everything.
So the reality of our worldtoday, taylor Swift.
Will (25:13):
I mean, actually I wanted to talk about the band nothing,
hmm, because I saw them.
Andrew (25:19):
Well, I thought so too.
Yeah, that's all I saw them.
Will (25:23):
Uh, they actually had a pretty underwhelming performance
.
I mean I don't want to naysaypeople on here, but yeah, I
don't know what didn't hit, butthe live performance of it
happens.
Yeah, didn't hit.
Andrew (25:33):
I mean, one of my favorite bands, wolves, in the
throne room.
I saw the first time an emptybottle Blew my socks off.
Like I literally looked for mysocks.
They were gone, yeah,disintegrated or you know some
kind of destruction.
Also killed my wife.
Oh wow, fucking slayed by thatshit, hurtful, couldn't stand up
.
She couldn't stand up.
(25:54):
I mean we had done a lot ofmarijuana's and everything, but
no, it was perfect.
But then I saw them again at afestival and the sound was bad
and I don't think it was theirfault, but also they just mean
outdoor events outdoor vencer.
This was indoor.
This was indoor festival.
Oh, okay, yeah, it was like aregular.
I guess the show is justhappened to have a lot of shows
at once with kind of a festivalIn nature.
Will (26:14):
But I mean, I did see nothing at Lincoln Hall, it's.
Andrew (26:18):
One of the best sound venues in the city, just didn't
hit.
Will (26:22):
It was bad, it's fair enough fair enough.
They did a bad job and I'm notproud of them.
Andrew (26:28):
Well, they're called nothing, yeah.
So I don't know what youexpected.
Will (26:33):
Uh but, no, taylor Swift in 2023.
Andrew (26:37):
For anyone who even has a remote awareness of music must
be aware that Taylor Swift wenton a Incredibly massive tour,
yeah, of the entire world.
A kill, a kill, them all to her.
Yeah you could say likeliterally, I think, one of the
biggest commercial successes inmusic Ever, ever.
Yeah, and she's the First.
(26:59):
Correct me if I'm wrongself-made music musician
billionaire.
Will (27:04):
Who's a woman Possibly?
Yeah, I mean Beyonce or her.
Andrew (27:08):
And obviously how you crunch the numbers and who has
more money, but but the pointstands, an incredibly successful
like Round of things that couldhave gone very bad, like some
tours go bad right, yeah, and toher credit, like she is in with
A list artists, indie artists,people across the board.
Will (27:32):
Yeah, like there's not.
I Don't hear bad things aboutTaylor.
Andrew (27:36):
Swift.
Will (27:37):
I mean, they're out there, if you look but they're not the
kind of criticisms, not fromindustry, they're not they're
not criticisms that could belevied with any sort of Any sort
of real level of metrics.
Andrew (27:49):
Yeah, yeah if you wanted to criticize Taylor Swift,
you'd have to like dig into likesociology and like popularity
and those sorts of things, andthat's not really what the I
mean.
Will (27:59):
Still, though, that to me that is crazy to have that kind
of like rep.
Yeah um, like one of myfavorite bands, the national, uh
, the desner brothers, theirguitarists like produce and
record her guitars, which iswild to me, like Finding someone
(28:19):
who you just like to work withand want to collaborate on the
level.
Uh, bony bear, she did the samething with him.
Bone I've her.
I don't know how you pronounceit.
Andrew (28:28):
But I've always said bony bear.
But sometimes when I read it Isay bone, I've her, yeah but I
mean she's collaborate with himlike I don't know she.
Will (28:36):
She seems to have a scope of like.
Hey, I understand being thisbig is important, but
Collaborating with people, thatmakes sense for me makes sense
too.
Andrew (28:48):
I think everyone in the right mind would like to think
if I were suddenly that big, Iwould try to do the right thing
right.
Will (28:54):
It's not all about being big, it's like not even the
right thing, it's like welcometo yeah, welcome to the world
I'm sort of helping create welland elevating other people right
right.
Um, like the national, thedesners were Trying to elevate
other people too, like SharonDennett, and came out of their
(29:14):
group like she was a backupsinger.
Um, I know they've worked withangel Olson and people like that
, so I don't know.
I think the trend of otherartists lifting up each other,
um is a good one to proliferate.
Andrew (29:29):
Yeah, I think it.
It's also a shout in the faceof like sort of the way we're
trained to think of our lives asinherently competitive.
Like yeah, why?
Like I don't think anyonemaking art should compete with
each other.
Like it's not a competition inany case.
Like it's, I mean I, I dounderstand the mentality of like
.
Will (29:47):
If we are in the same space, we are competitors.
But If you're in thiscollaborative Sort of mindset,
you lift each other out.
Andrew (29:57):
Exactly, yeah.
So it's sort of the idea oflike, working together, you both
can make more money than you'dboth make fighting each other
for whatever you, whatever youcould get right.
Will (30:07):
Yeah, I mean a good idea lifts, lifts Everyone else up,
it does yeah, so but uh, on thatnote, yeah, go ahead she.
She had this hugely successfultour um, probably the most
successful tour of any livingartist or dead one, Uh you were
telling me you went, you, youwalked by a movie screening of
(30:30):
the tour.
Yeah, I was how far removed.
Andrew (30:32):
Could you?
Will (30:32):
be so.
Andrew (30:33):
I was in la for the postal service show at the
Hollywood Bowl and she had herpremiere of A movie of her tour
at the Chinese theater and therewas a line a block long for
that, like if you're, if you'regoing meta and like In, like
doing movies of the tour or evenlike TVs of the movie, like,
(30:56):
and people are still lining up,you, you have something, you've
done something big yeah.
Will (31:01):
I mean we all know this, yeah, but it's insane.
It is insane the impact ofTaylor Swift in 2023.
I mean, like she did it, yeah,I think.
Andrew (31:13):
Whatever she was trying to do, she did it.
I think, as someone I don'tlisten to Taylor Swift Like the
music when it hits my ears doesnot.
I mean, I listen I've beentalking about brutal death metal
all episode Like it's not mystyle of music, but I have such
appreciation for someone who canspeak such complex language
(31:34):
that all music is to so manypeople and they all line up and
like how do you find that onecommon mess?
How do you find that one commonsound?
That's the hardest thing to everdo.
It's a feat, yeah, I mean anyone, anyone with really good chops
and some good riffs and maybesome beer and weed and some
(31:55):
tattoos, because they listen toheavy metal and like plays death
metal, like I will enjoy it,like right.
But to find like to be.
To find specific interests andnail those, that's one thing.
But to to find a broad appealand then just like make it even
bigger is.
Will (32:09):
Well and also have a broad appeal and make good music.
Yes, yes.
Andrew (32:13):
Like music that people like.
Well, when I consider goodmusic, I don't.
I try not to say do I thinkit's good.
I try to say do people findactual meaning in this?
Right, well, and is it wellcrafted?
Yes, I like, yeah, like, is it?
Is it like a?
Is a?
I'm trying to find the word.
Is it?
It's not just thrown together,it's no, it's cared for, well,
(32:37):
cared for, cared for like in allthese collaborations, to, like,
the designers are huge guitarplayers.
Will (32:43):
Like I mean, if I can get Aaron Desne to play a song I was
making, I would do an arcadelike you know, but she just has
this talent for Collaboration aswell as, like her own talent.
Right, this is not to likedownplay Taylor Swift, which I
(33:04):
would never do.
How could you?
I mean hands off to?
But no, I mean she has a talentfor collaboration, business,
all the stuff that, like, makesit work together.
Andrew (33:16):
I think, overall, the big message from Taylor Swift is
that music is not dead.
Oh, yeah, yeah, I mean, we knowthat, you and I know that, but
there's plenty of people who aresick of the same old, same old.
Will (33:28):
I mean the people saying music, or music is dead are the
same people that were sayingguitar is dead, like five years
ago that's true, that's true,yeah.
You know, but there are peoplewho don't want to see a creative
energy be productive, right.
Andrew (33:41):
But when it happens, so they understand that creative
energy doesn't always produceRight.
Will (33:46):
Like you could spend 20 years making your magnum opus
and no one gets it and no onewants to buy it until you're
dead.
Andrew (33:54):
No, we're talking.
We're talking where thisconversation enters, like the X
factor level, the, the almostlike long games yeah.
Almost like untouchable elementto specifically Taylor Swift.
That's something that way Idescribe it is that she is so
musical Like she is.
She breathes, eats and sleepsmusic like more than any of us
(34:16):
could Like, do you?
Do you see what I mean?
Like?
Will (34:20):
I don't know if I agree with that.
Andrew (34:22):
Well, her name is like Taylor.
I mean like her identity ispart of this.
Yeah, she's what was massiverepresentation of what music is
for all people.
Yeah.
Like she stands there and that'sher name in front of that.
Will (34:34):
But, I think, I think she has those qualities.
I don't know if she eats,breathes and sleeps it.
Andrew (34:43):
Yeah, I don't mean to be so, you know exaggerated, but
you know what I mean.
Like yeah, yeah.
I have deep respect, even thoughit's not the type of music I
listen to, for someone who is sothoroughly versed in the
ability to communicate throughmusic.
Will (34:57):
That's that blows my mind.
Yeah, no, it's, it's a talent,yeah.
Andrew (35:00):
I mean across the world, across cultures, like people
were completely different.
Will (35:05):
Yeah, I mean, the only similar type of comparison I can
think of off the top of my headis like Mr Bean.
Andrew (35:12):
Mr Bean yeah.
I mean like the British.
Will (35:15):
Community yeah.
Andrew (35:16):
Ron Atkinson as far as like universal appeal or
something as far as reach, oh,reach, reach, yeah.
Will (35:21):
Like to be Mr Bean is universal, like that physical
comedy.
Yes, and I'm not trying to likedownplay Taylor's music in any
way.
Andrew (35:30):
No, no, no, I'm just saying like direct comparison.
Will (35:33):
Whatever nerve or thing that hits is like universal,
yeah.
So I think to be that kind oftalent takes a certain person.
Andrew (35:42):
We always say that to write good music you have to be.
You have to be your most humanself right.
You have to be your most selfand like work with the music not
as a product or as a commodityor as like an economic search or
interest or anything, but aslike a personal thing.
Will (36:01):
Yeah, something tapping at your core.
Andrew (36:03):
Exactly, and for some people that's a very specific
thing.
Some people is very general,but for very few people is that
like does that feedback loopthen get generated where it's
like right, she feeds thispersonal like, this, this need
or desire to create music, andshe does it, but then the world,
just like, keeps feeding herright, it's like more and more
and more and, like any, likeanyone in her shoes, she's like,
(36:26):
yeah, let's, let's do it, let'sdo the biggest thing anyone
could ever do in this world ofmusic, and that's actually
that's a good segue to Andre3000, his first record in many,
many years since outcasts andbig boy.
Will (36:41):
I mean he made this like super weird, super expressive
experimental album with likeflutes and it really hit the
mark.
Is this shit like avant-garde?
I mean?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean Ithink it's he is main.
He has enough influence alreadyjust by being who he is that he
(37:03):
was able to push the sort ofweird avant-garde music into
like the mainstream.
Yes, which I mean I don't evenknow if there's a precedent for
like what kind of music he wasmaking, but but it's a really
awesome record.
That was just completelystraight from the heart.
Andrew (37:22):
Like is it sort of one of those where you hear it and
you hear it like you just know?
Will (37:26):
as a music lover you just like yeah for casual listeners
to it, right.
I think it hits, I mean kind ofin that same way that Taylor
Swift does, where it's like thisis universally like good yeah.
Andrew (37:42):
It's so hard to like consider objective facts and
music criticism, but whensomething is, when you have
millions of people likeclamoring to get into your show,
you're not going to argue witheach one of those people.
Will (37:54):
No, and the Andre 3000 album was a little bit different
, where like yeah, yeah, yeahyeah.
There might not be a liveversion of it that works, right,
but this record that he madereally works.
Yes, yes, like he really did agood job of like coming back out
here.
Andrew (38:08):
Even I have heard about it in my far removed you know
death and doom metal circlesLike these people, even in like
niche scenes that generally kindof sometimes reject other
spaces of music or evenmainstream spaces of music.
Once you see those people evensaying there's definite respect
here, then you have to know likeyes, yeah, and that's bridge
(38:31):
that gap.
Will (38:32):
Yeah, that's being a true musician to like, finding where
there is a pocket to learnsomething.
Yes, because there is alwayssomething to learn from someone
else.
Andrew (38:40):
Oh my God, yeah, if you.
If you don't believe that, thenyou're not A good luck.
Will (38:45):
Yeah, you're not doing work.
Yeah, yeah.
Andrew (38:46):
Yeah, that.
No, you're right, that's a goodway to put it.
That is some of the actual workof making music is learning.
Will (38:52):
Yeah, I mean good luck, and good bye is what I would say
.
Yeah.
Andrew (38:55):
I mean, a lot of people take learning as like a passive
activity, but once you hit acertain age it just isn't.
You have to actively.
Will (39:00):
Yeah, yeah, and you should always be learning is a firm
belief I have, oh yeah.
Andrew (39:05):
That's another.
That's not a sound saga, soundtip, that's sound sagas.
You must do this.
Hashtag life tip.
You must keep learning If youstop learning.
Will (39:15):
Yeah, unsubscribe yeah.
Andrew (39:17):
Get out of here, we don't want you.
I love that we can talk about,you know, wormhole and Taylor
Swift and sort of like.
I mean two different, like oneno one knows about it.
Completely and totally offgenre music, kind of hidden by
the wayside.
You know, I would sayunderappreciated, even though I
don't blame anyone for notwanting to listen to a guy like
(39:41):
gutturally belch the whole time,even how impressive it is, I
mean, and how it might have beenaesthetically pleasing.
It is yeah.
But at the same stroke, likeTaylor Swift, like don't you see
the world?
We I'm not as I'm not sayingthat you don't.
I'm saying rhetorically, likedon't you see the, the gifts
we've given ourselves as humans,as far as music and the value
(40:02):
and any level you want, exactlyAny level you want to access you
?
can find that value.
Will (40:06):
Right, like you will find people.
Andrew (40:08):
You will find artists.
You will find artists.
You will find artists.
You will find artists.
You will find artists.
You will find artists thatdon't give you that value.
That's fine, but you will nevernot find someone Right.
Right, there's something foreveryone, and I, I truly do
believe that, even though Ican't prove it.
Will (40:24):
Oh, absolutely.
Andrew (40:25):
I mean, I don't think that's, but if anything makes
that more clear is that TaylorSwift showed the world like hey,
buddy, how's you wanna see howit's done?
You see how it's done.
Yeah, hey, you want to seemusic being there.
It's how it's done and like weall stood by and we're very
impressed.
Oh, for a lifetime I was happy.
I was when I when I read aboutthat tour being a massive
(40:47):
success and that she gave hugebonuses and tips to people and,
like that, all the fans werelike this was amazing and the
show was great.
I'm like like it can be done atscale If the biggest complaint
is that you can't get ticketsfor a show.
Will (41:01):
Yeah, that's the best complaint you can have.
Andrew (41:03):
Well, it wasn't the whole, like the whole online
buying thing, a huge.
Will (41:07):
No, I mean, and she and Robert Smith slapped ticket,
ticket master that was the thing.
Andrew (41:12):
like ticket master tried to do some paperwork.
Will (41:17):
Those companies don't work at scale no, which she proved,
and the cures proved no.
Then they need to do someremodeling?
Andrew (41:26):
Yeah, because they've.
They didn't.
They probably didn't realizewhat they were sort of up
against or kind of coming up toas far as the popularity.
Will (41:35):
I don't think they cared, but I think they care now yeah.
Andrew (41:40):
They care now because they know they can make more
money if they do a better job.
Will (41:43):
Yeah.
Andrew (41:44):
Yeah, anyway, that's, that's a whole debacle.
That's like.
Well, that's all the great musicat 20 for you.
We also have like ticket masterand yeah and like show prices,
and we can name a bunch of otherthings that are kind of a kind
of stinking up our realm.
But all told, we'll live, we'llsurvive as long as we have, you
(42:04):
know, the music we came for.
So like subscribe engage.
I think, engage is the word wetell people.
Will (42:09):
Yeah, engage, give us some ratings.
Do you like this, do you?
Andrew (42:12):
not like this.
You can hit those buttonsunderneath the video to any of
them.
Will (42:18):
Yeah, let's poke them.
Andrew (42:19):
Well, what we really want to say is we appreciate you
.
We have good things in storethis year.
We had a good year last yearlistening to so much music.
We can't wait to talk moreabout it and share it and just
like be excited about it.
As you can tell we're we getgiddy about this stuff.
Will (42:34):
Yeah, yeah.
So keep listening, keepwatching, keep subscribing.
Yeah, all right See you soonBye.
Bye.
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