August 4, 2025 • 27 mins
The Sounds of Film welcomes best-selling author and literary icon Lee Child, the creator of the Jack Reacher series, for a captivating conversation with host Tom Needham. Often hailed by The New York Times as “the best thriller writer of the moment,” Lee Child joins the show to discuss the intriguing new short film, “If Jack Reacher Could Sing,” which will be featured at the Long Island Music & Entertainment Hall of Fame’s Music Documentary Film Series on Saturday, August 9th at 1:15 PM. The screening will be followed by a Q&A and performance by Naked Blue.
In this special episode, Child dives into his unexpected collaboration with the indie Americana band Naked Blue, and how their partnership led to a unique musical interpretation of his legendary character. “If Jack Reacher Could Sing” provides fans with a rare, behind-the-scenes look at the fusion of literature and music, showcasing Child’s creative evolution and the enduring impact of Jack Reacher on popular culture. The film culminates in the original song and music video, “Clothes On My Back,” written and performed by Naked Blue.
This episode is a must-listen for fans of thrillers, music documentaries, and anyone interested in how characters leap from the page to influence other art forms.
For more information about The Sounds of Film, please visit soundsoffilm.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hi, this is Tom Needham and you are listening to the Sounds of
film and I am very honored todayto have on the show a very
special guest, best selling author Lee Child, known for his
Jack Reacher books and movies. Today though, we're going to be
talking about something a littledifferent.
We're going to be discussing a film that he is featured in
(00:23):
about a collaboration he did with the band Naked Blue.
It is captured in the movie If Jack Reacher Could Sing, which
is playing at the Long Island Music and Entertainment Hall of
Fame Music Documentary Film Festival on Saturday, August 9th
at 1:15. After the screening, there's
(00:45):
going to be a performance by Naked Blue and AQ and A.
So I hope everyone comes out forthat.
Lee, it is such a pleasure to have you on the show.
Thanks so much for joining us. Hello, Tom.
Yes, absolutely. My pleasure, especially talking
about this. Project which was really.
Just one of the most lovely and happiest experiences of my life,
(01:08):
Literally. That that's pretty amazing
because you've had an amazing career.
Why is this project in particular so special for you?
Well, first of all, the way it came.
About was such a. Weird and unlikely coincidence.
That if I'd put. It in a book every editor in the
world would have said come on man, that's.
(01:29):
That's ridiculous. What what happened was many
years ago, 30 years ago now. It was almost in the year 1990.
6 I had. Been a fan since the 19. 60s of
the original. Fleetwood Mac, Remember them?
Peter Green on guitar, One of the great.
(01:49):
British guitarists of the 60s. Who then, like too many of the
generations, suffered a huge breakdown.
It's possible. That acid was involved?
Who? Who knows, really.
Pressure of success or whatever it was.
And he had a total collapse and he disappeared.
For possibly 30 odd years. And then in the middle 1990s, he
(02:15):
he came back on the scene a muchdiminished man with all kinds of
health problems that had been developing, you know, during his
long absence. And the music scene being
compassionate in a way, you know, the music scene gets
talked. About as a very.
Cutthroat operation and very haphazard and.
(02:37):
It's all about. Luck and so on.
But they all got together to record.
A double album of Peter Green's songs.
The idea being that the songwriting royalties that he
would get from it would help himwith his medical expenses.
Which I thought. Was a lovely response.
So I bought the the double CD because I love Peter.
Green's songs and it was great. That it was called.
(02:59):
Rattlesnake guitar and there wasa.
Lot of good. Tracks on it.
A lot of covers of his. Best his best songs and one of
them just randomly. That I totally loved was a a
cover by a. Band called Naked Blue, which
I'd never heard of, all new to me but I something about.
(03:20):
That cover? Really just hooked me and then
I. I would.
Keep an eye out. Did they have an album?
Did they have anything else? And sure enough, there was an
album and then a second album and I became a huge fan of
theirs. On the other.
Side of the Atlantic I was stillI knew nothing about them,
(03:41):
really, other than their music. Obviously they knew nothing
about me. And then some years later, it
must have been. I don't. 5-6 years later I got a
letter I was a writer. By that point I'd become a
writer and I got a fan letter back in the days when.
You would actually get. Physical mail, and it was from a
(04:01):
couple in Baltimore. Who?
Who said they love my books? And you know, it's great.
To get letters like. That and so.
I was really happy about. It and I wrote back to them and
said, oh, thank you very much. You know, that's great.
And they wrote back again and said, actually, we're coming to
New York. Where where I lived.
At the time we're coming to New York on business would.
(04:23):
You like to get together? Cup of coffee, have a beer.
And I said. Great.
Yeah. Where and when and they said
well, we're playing a club down in the.
Village we are a. Band called naked.
Blue. And that was such a random
coincidence I could not. Believe it we were.
Fans of each other, completely unbeknownst to each other and
(04:46):
so. Yeah, of course.
You know, we, I went for a beer and it turned into about 10
beers and it was just a great conversation.
And of course. The very.
First thing we said, we've got to make an album together.
I'll write the words. You write the music.
And so that was day one, you know, we were going to do.
It for sure, but it took us. I think it was 15 years before
(05:09):
we got around here because, you know, I was.
Busy. They were busy.
We maintained contact. We were friends.
We. Saw each other, but it was. 15
years before we finally got around to it and I, I was in awe
of them really for their talent.I love.
Music. Absolutely love it.
(05:30):
Consume it all the time. I wish I could.
Be a musician. I think that's actually very
typical for a lot of writers. They wish they could.
Be musicians because there is something similar.
About the two processes I. Think you know, it's not like
being a painter. If you.
If you. Paint something then that.
Is. Obviously it can be appreciated
(05:53):
more and more. Over the years.
But basically what you see is what you get.
It's right. There in one take.
Whereas music, it starts somewhere and it travels and it
ends up somewhere else. Which is what, a book?
Does there's a time? Base to it you.
Consume it over time. So I felt.
(06:13):
There's a similarity and I felt.I was a.
Totally frustrated musician. Like a lot of writers are well,
right from the beginning in the movie you you start talking
about the difference between writing for books and writing
songs. What did you learn about this
process? Well, I guess.
The first thing I learned is I didn't know very much about it.
(06:35):
You know this. The formal structure of the song
verses and choruses and bridges and so on was something.
That I was. Unaware of, you know, unaware of
having to build that in at the beginning and a lot of the
songs. That we did together.
Are not conventional. Structures like that.
They're narratives, they are stories in themselves in a way.
(06:59):
And so that was down to Scott and Jen, the, you know, the
couple, the naked blue. Couple.
Being, I think, very tolerant ofme, you know that.
We we got. Together.
And it was. We got together with the.
Purpose of writing these songs and it was kind of awkward at
the beginning because I was a huge fan of theirs.
(07:20):
They were a huge. Fan of mine.
We were. In danger of becoming too.
Respectful of each other, but that.
Lasted only about 30 seconds because.
We're all. Working pros, you know, we had a
project, we were going to do it and.
I love the actual process. It was so fast.
We were virtually. Writing it in real time, we made
(07:44):
a decision. What should we do?
You know what should this album be about?
And we decided. It would be.
Not. Specifically Jack Reacher, but a
sort of. Tough guy presentation it These
were tough guy songs and I wanted Jen to sing them because
I thought that would be a fantastic kind of contrast in as
(08:07):
much as a tough guy song sung bythis beautiful, pure female
voice. Would really work, so it was.
Just a question of I was coming up with the.
Lyrics, they're the sort of. People that think best with a
guitar in their hands. So we were literally nose to
nose in my living room just doing it.
(08:28):
And you got to, really. Trust people to do that.
Because you know, you come up with stupid lines or.
Bad ideas or whatever. And you're very naked, You're
very vulnerable. But you've got to.
Put it all out in front of the other two and likewise they
they're the same. They have to do it and it worse
(08:49):
for them they're married to. Each other so that.
You know. They're bad ideas live forever,
I guess. Well, I love the concept of the
film. At what point did you decide we
we have to put this on film and show this process and, and and
and show this collaboration between two unique artists?
(09:09):
Well, I knew a filmmaker NC Haiken.
I knew her. Pretty well we were.
Doing. She does a lot of projects.
Based around music. And I did another movie with her
about the rehabilitation of a guy in prison who had been an
awful murderer. And then over a long period he
became the nicest possible guy in San Quentin through playing
(09:33):
the jazz piano. And so I knew her from that
project. And I thought, you know what?
I just want this documented. I just want it as a souvenir.
I knew. That this was the.
Loveliest experience for me and I knew that it probably would
never. Repeat.
So I just. Wanted a personal memory of it
so I asked her to film it and and make.
(09:55):
A music video. Of one of the songs and so on.
And so it was originally for me,just a personal reminder.
Have a. Really, really happy period.
And then we got the. Idea.
Well, let's let other people seeit too.
And I think it is. It's a great little.
Film, obviously for me it's totally sentimental, but I think
(10:16):
it shows how people from different disciplines can.
Cooperate I was completely. Fingers and thumbs about the
music. They were warning my words and
so they were very. Respectful of that, so it was.
A true collaboration and I thought it would be interesting
for other people. To see how that works it, it's
(10:38):
very interesting and you alreadymentioned it, but the songs are
sort of from the perspective of Jack Reacher you described as a
strong character. Tell us a little bit more about
Jack and how his personality found its way into some specific
(10:58):
songs. Well, you know Jack Reacher.
Is. In the modern day.
Story He is a. Retired military cop who now.
Is very restless. He can't settle down.
He wanders the US endlessly, trying to stay out of trouble,
trying to live. A quiet life, but.
(11:19):
Occasionally stumbling into a situation that he needs to fix,
but more than that, he is reallyan ancient character.
He is. The sort of character that has
been. Recreated.
Over and over again during narrative history.
The mysterious stranger or the noble loner?
Who shows up? In the nick of time, he solves
(11:42):
the problem, and then he rides off into the sunset.
The what he had the. Westerns in America were full of
that character and. It stretches.
Back into medieval Europe and the Scandinavians sagas and the
Anglo-Saxon battle poems all theway back to Greek mythology.
Really, we need this character. We want this character to.
(12:04):
We want the. Possibility or the fantasy?
That whatever problems we've got, somebody might show up and.
Fix it for us. Which is an irresistible
fantasy, it seems. You know, that's been proved
over the. Years, so that was.
That was richer and. He shows up.
The the one that I love the. Best is is.
(12:25):
The song called. Sanctuary because in the.
Books. Reacher has always got to be the
tough guy he's always got to be.The winner?
He doesn't. Really express self doubt.
But in that song Sanctuary, he'she once he says let me be weak.
Just once, you know, in the in the in the presence of a woman
(12:46):
he loves very much. Just let me be weak.
Don't make me always. Be.
The powerful 1 and I think. That was a breakthrough.
Really, in as much as you can't really do that in a book
necessarily, but you you sure could on the album and it came
out really nicely. You, you already mentioned that
you decided that you wanted Jen to be the voice for these songs.
(13:09):
Can you tell me a little bit more about why that was an
important decision for a character like Jack Reacher, I
felt. We just needed almost a third
party perspective, you know, so that.
The tough guy, The lyrics. Sung by.
A tough guy voice. I think would have been too on
the nose and too obvious somehow, and probably too
(13:31):
monolithic. But the idea that.
The tough guy sentiment could beexpressed by what is
traditionally. Viewed as a very.
Gentle medium in In other words,a woman's singing voice.
I thought that would. Add a level of intrigue and
interest that otherwise the songs might not have had.
(13:51):
They would have been too obvious, I think, if it had been
a man singing in a gruff kind of.
Tough guy way. So I felt the contrast was what
we needed and I think it. Works really well.
It kind of disassociates the message from a particular
character, makes it a much more universal message, gender free
message. Because that's something else
(14:13):
I've learned about Richard that I imagined at the beginning.
He would be. Predominantly a male fantasy.
The wanderer walking away from responsibility, nothing tying
him down. But I'd learned over the years
from readers that it's absolutely a woman's fantasy as
well. It's it's gender neutral.
The idea that you. Can you could live an individual
(14:35):
life not tied down by responsibility?
And it makes sense I suppose. You know women have to work
incredibly hard and I bet a lot of them everyday think, man, I
wish I could just walk away and be somewhere else tomorrow.
Talking about walking away, there's a discussion in the film
about how when Jack Reacher walks, he walks.
(14:58):
I think it's you could correct me 88 times per per minute and
and that 88 beats per second or something like that is a a
common figure in music. Correct me the way I phrased it,
but but it there is a connectionwith that number 88, right.
(15:20):
Yeah, Richer. Himself is a character, is a
music. Lover he loves.
All Blues songs he. He.
He always is. Playing music in his head and he
hitches when he can. He rides a bus when he can, but
a lot of the time he's walking, and Richer is a kind of nerdy
guy deep down, and he knows. That a lot of.
(15:40):
Great tunes are 88 beats per minute and he's his natural
walking. Pace is 88.
Steps a minute. So he's got just.
An infinite amount of stimulus in his head for playing music to
himself. I love the connection between
music and books and film. I noticed in recent years a lot
(16:03):
of audiobooks have started experimenting with the use of
music. I'm not sure if that's been done
at all in your books, but but doyou think there is a place to
make new connections between books and music, kind of like
you did in this film, and maybe even other ways that we haven't
seen yet? Yeah, for sure.
(16:24):
I mean, like I say, I think thatthe two art forms share a lot in
common in in as much as they're a journey, they start somewhere,
they have a mood, a book has a mood and a feel in the same way
that a song has a key. And so I think there are plenty
of similarities and I think that.
People as a whole, we got to look.
(16:45):
Back, you know, look back not only to previous generations,
but look back to prehistory, story and music.
Has always. Been incredibly important to
humans it's a sort of defining factor, I think you know, we're
called homo sapiens there's a suggestion we shouldn't we
(17:06):
should be called pan narons, in other words, the.
Storytelling ape, because. As far as we know, no other
species makes up fictional stories, so it's incredibly
important to us and we've been doing it probably for hundreds
of thousands. Of years.
Stretching back to when we were primitive, and of course all of
(17:29):
that time was oral. There was no printing.
There was no mechanism for recording anything.
Everything was oral storytelling.
Somebody would. Tell a story.
A bunch of people would be sitting there listening to it.
So, audio books. As a whole, I think are
something that are going to comeback in a big way because it's a
(17:50):
real connection with our centralnature, the delight of listening
to a story and for a long time, the last couple.
Of 100 years or so that. Was not convenient and so we
learned to read. Words off a page.
But I think that's probably going to turn out to be a
temporary blip. Now we have super convenient
(18:12):
ways of listening. You know, we have digital stuff,
everybody has earbuds or headphones or whatever.
It's completely natural now. Downloading is something that is
instantaneous. So we will I.
Think get back to listening to stories, but given our
expectations now and technology.Available.
(18:35):
Sure, we. Should add in music, we should
add in sound effects and so on. There's a kind of technical
glitch with that in as much as. If you sell your.
Work to the movies. Typically they have a huge a
contract. That is very restrictive.
It's not just a movie or TV you're selling, it's any
dramatic production. So that adding multiple voices
(18:58):
or adding a soundtrack might fall foul of that, but that.
Is a sort of. Technical legal thing that can
quickly get resolved. But yeah.
Let's have a completely multi dimensional performance.
Available for people to. Listen to.
I think that would be great. In an age when less and less
people seem to be reading, at least that's what the media is
(19:19):
telling us, that the numbers aregoing down and down and down.
You have come up with such a successful book series.
People love Jack Reacher and I was wondering if you have any
sense as to why people are reading less and are you
concerned about it? I'm not concerned about it at
all. Because.
(19:39):
Like I say, what matters to me is.
Story. And I don't care.
Why would I care? Exactly how people consume that
story, and I think that you can see in people's real lives,
their leisure time is very fragmented.
They. If they are readers, maybe they
read 20 minutes on the bus to work.
(20:00):
Maybe they read 20 minutes in their lunch hour.
And then again 20 minutes beforethey go to.
Sleep so it's. Episodic and they've already got
a phone with them all the time. They've already got earbuds in
their purse. So just to.
Put in the earbuds and press. Play is actually.
More efficient, more beneficial to them than digging in their
(20:24):
purse and opening a book. It's really the same thing.
So I'm not at all protective of the exact medium.
What I want is for people to continue enjoying story, which I
think they inevitably. Will because that does seem.
To be a human need to have. Story, the stories everywhere.
You know a. 32nd TV commercial is a story many times and so the
(20:49):
appetite for story will never goaway the delivery system.
Let's just do whatever people like the best.
Being an author can sometimes bea, you know, a private life
unless one chooses not to. I I found it interesting that
you are upfront in this documentary.
You're in the music video in in the movie, we see that you have
(21:13):
joined Naked Blue on stage at atleast one point.
How does it feel for you to be on camera?
To to be at the forefront, to beon stage?
It's difficult. To be honest, I mean I privately
call writing show business for shy.
People, because we generally. Are you migrate toward what
(21:38):
you're comfortable with? And the thing about being a
writer? Is that you yourself,
physically? Are not in the marketplace.
It's not like being an actor. It's not like being an athlete.
Or a ballplayer where your physical self.
Is in the marketplace. For a writer, your book.
Is in the marketplace and that is a level of detachment that.
(22:00):
Suits a lot of. Writers and it's.
It's difficult for. Writers generally to do all the
on stage promotion that we have to do and so on.
But as far as the music thing, when?
Yeah. I was just thrilled to do it.
You know, it's a dream for me tobe on stage with real musicians
in that moment of performance. It is really magical.
(22:23):
So I cast aside all my shyness and reluctance and was.
Just totally happy to do it. One quick thing you said in the
in the film that I really appreciated was it seems like
you have such a positive attitude.
You said that due to the successof the Jack Reacher books, you
get many opportunities in life that you never would have
(22:45):
expected, and that this opportunity to work on this
music project in the film was just one example.
Can can you give us any other examples of things that you've
kind of had the opportunity to do that was just a nice surprise
based on opportunities that cameabout due to your Jack Reacher
(23:06):
success? Oh, lots of things.
Yeah. You know I've.
Met 2. Presidents of the US and had
dinner and in fact, Bill Clintonwas interviewed me on stage from
one of my book launches. I've, you know, I've met Obama,
(23:26):
actually. Through.
Obama being a writer, that was fun for me because years and
years ago, before anybody knew who he was, he he wrote a book
called Dreams from My Father, which.
I thought was a. Great book and I went into my
publishers office one time for an unconnected reason.
And the thing about a? Publisher's office is.
(23:46):
It's full of books and they lovebooks and anytime you go in,
guaranteed somebody will come upto you and press a book into
your hand and and say you. Got to read this, this is great.
And so Obama's book. Very early was.
Given to me like that and I I was impressed by it and so I I
became a. Supporter of his.
And he kept inviting me to events and so on.
(24:11):
That was fantastic. In Britain I'm involved with the
royal family. The Queen of England runs a
Reading thing that I'm involved with.
They gave me an award. I'm a commander of the British
Empire and so on. It's.
Yeah, you live a life. That is unimaginable from.
What? I thought I would be doing.
(24:32):
That is amazing, and yet you said one of the most pleasurable
things was getting involved withNaked Blue and recording this
music and making this film and that, and that's amazing.
As you look back at this projectas more and more people get to
see it, what would you say was the most rewarding part of this
process for you? Just to be involved in it, you
(24:56):
know, I've often wondered what must.
It feel like to let's say you'rea.
Band you've got, you've got to do an album.
What is the process like? I know what it's like as a
writer and there are a lot of highs in that that.
If you do a good bit, you feel great, I thought.
Does is that the same in music? So just to be involved in it was
great. Watching how it turned.
(25:17):
It moves from being a kind of half stated idea and then a few
months later it's on the album, completely produced, sounding
wonderful. As a fully.
Formed product watching that. Process was great.
But just really being around people that were ferociously
(25:37):
talented in something that I wasnot was inspiring, you know,
kind of similar if you meet a baseball.
Player or a football? Player or something and you're
in their world for a minute. They're completely normal people
in terms of the rest. Of their lives.
But that one thing, they're superhuman in terms of their
skill and talent. And it was just observing that
(25:58):
upfront that I found really fascinating that things that I
would never have thought to do, they just instinctively do and
they turn. What was a page of words?
For me, into a finished song. Was a mysterious process, but to
observe it? Was really inspiring.
(26:19):
Well, we've been speaking with Lee Child and we're talking
about his movie If Jack Reacher Could Sing.
It's going to be playing at the Long Island Music and
Entertainment Hall of Fame MusicDocumentary Film Festival on
Saturday, August 9th at 1:15. A special performance in Q&A
with Naked Blue and Lee. I want to thank you so much.
(26:41):
It's it's really an honor to geta chance to speak to you.
And I can't wait to hear about what you want to tell us really
quickly. What's up next for you?
Just what I'm you know what I'm doing.
Read your books. Short.
Stories here and there. I'm trying to also.
Give back a little. Bit I'm doing a project for
books and prisons. Because I feel like.
(27:04):
I'm not a soft hearted person particularly.
Most people in prison deserve tobe there.
But there's. Always one or two out of 10.
That you could. Help or save and literacy is a.
Problem for a lot of people that.
Alienates them from normal life.So we're trying to do something
about teaching people to read and maybe helping them settle
into a more normal and conventional lifestyle.
(27:26):
So yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm supposed to be retired now, but I'm
busier than ever really. Well, we'll all be looking to
hear about some of these different things that you
mentioned and of course, the books and and shows.
Lee, thank you so much for joining us on The Sounds of
Film. It's a real pleasure.
Tom, it's good to speak to you.
Hi, this is Tom Needham and you are listening to the Sounds of
film and I am very honored todayto have on the show a very
special guest, best selling author Lee Child, known for his
Jack Reacher books and movies. Today though, we're going to be
talking about something a littledifferent.
We're going to be discussing a film that he is featured in
(00:23):
about a collaboration he did with the band Naked Blue.
It is captured in the movie If Jack Reacher Could Sing, which
is playing at the Long Island Music and Entertainment Hall of
Fame Music Documentary Film Festival on Saturday, August 9th
at 1:15. After the screening, there's
(00:45):
going to be a performance by Naked Blue and AQ and A.
So I hope everyone comes out forthat.
Lee, it is such a pleasure to have you on the show.
Thanks so much for joining us. Hello, Tom.
Yes, absolutely. My pleasure, especially talking
about this. Project which was really.
Just one of the most lovely and happiest experiences of my life,
(01:08):
Literally. That that's pretty amazing
because you've had an amazing career.
Why is this project in particular so special for you?
Well, first of all, the way it came.
About was such a. Weird and unlikely coincidence.
That if I'd put. It in a book every editor in the
world would have said come on man, that's.
(01:29):
That's ridiculous. What what happened was many
years ago, 30 years ago now. It was almost in the year 1990.
6 I had. Been a fan since the 19. 60s of
the original. Fleetwood Mac, Remember them?
Peter Green on guitar, One of the great.
(01:49):
British guitarists of the 60s. Who then, like too many of the
generations, suffered a huge breakdown.
It's possible. That acid was involved?
Who? Who knows, really.
Pressure of success or whatever it was.
And he had a total collapse and he disappeared.
For possibly 30 odd years. And then in the middle 1990s, he
(02:15):
he came back on the scene a muchdiminished man with all kinds of
health problems that had been developing, you know, during his
long absence. And the music scene being
compassionate in a way, you know, the music scene gets
talked. About as a very.
Cutthroat operation and very haphazard and.
(02:37):
It's all about. Luck and so on.
But they all got together to record.
A double album of Peter Green's songs.
The idea being that the songwriting royalties that he
would get from it would help himwith his medical expenses.
Which I thought. Was a lovely response.
So I bought the the double CD because I love Peter.
Green's songs and it was great. That it was called.
(02:59):
Rattlesnake guitar and there wasa.
Lot of good. Tracks on it.
A lot of covers of his. Best his best songs and one of
them just randomly. That I totally loved was a a
cover by a. Band called Naked Blue, which
I'd never heard of, all new to me but I something about.
(03:20):
That cover? Really just hooked me and then
I. I would.
Keep an eye out. Did they have an album?
Did they have anything else? And sure enough, there was an
album and then a second album and I became a huge fan of
theirs. On the other.
Side of the Atlantic I was stillI knew nothing about them,
(03:41):
really, other than their music. Obviously they knew nothing
about me. And then some years later, it
must have been. I don't. 5-6 years later I got a
letter I was a writer. By that point I'd become a
writer and I got a fan letter back in the days when.
You would actually get. Physical mail, and it was from a
(04:01):
couple in Baltimore. Who?
Who said they love my books? And you know, it's great.
To get letters like. That and so.
I was really happy about. It and I wrote back to them and
said, oh, thank you very much. You know, that's great.
And they wrote back again and said, actually, we're coming to
New York. Where where I lived.
At the time we're coming to New York on business would.
(04:23):
You like to get together? Cup of coffee, have a beer.
And I said. Great.
Yeah. Where and when and they said
well, we're playing a club down in the.
Village we are a. Band called naked.
Blue. And that was such a random
coincidence I could not. Believe it we were.
Fans of each other, completely unbeknownst to each other and
(04:46):
so. Yeah, of course.
You know, we, I went for a beer and it turned into about 10
beers and it was just a great conversation.
And of course. The very.
First thing we said, we've got to make an album together.
I'll write the words. You write the music.
And so that was day one, you know, we were going to do.
It for sure, but it took us. I think it was 15 years before
(05:09):
we got around here because, you know, I was.
Busy. They were busy.
We maintained contact. We were friends.
We. Saw each other, but it was. 15
years before we finally got around to it and I, I was in awe
of them really for their talent.I love.
Music. Absolutely love it.
(05:30):
Consume it all the time. I wish I could.
Be a musician. I think that's actually very
typical for a lot of writers. They wish they could.
Be musicians because there is something similar.
About the two processes I. Think you know, it's not like
being a painter. If you.
If you. Paint something then that.
Is. Obviously it can be appreciated
(05:53):
more and more. Over the years.
But basically what you see is what you get.
It's right. There in one take.
Whereas music, it starts somewhere and it travels and it
ends up somewhere else. Which is what, a book?
Does there's a time? Base to it you.
Consume it over time. So I felt.
(06:13):
There's a similarity and I felt.I was a.
Totally frustrated musician. Like a lot of writers are well,
right from the beginning in the movie you you start talking
about the difference between writing for books and writing
songs. What did you learn about this
process? Well, I guess.
The first thing I learned is I didn't know very much about it.
(06:35):
You know this. The formal structure of the song
verses and choruses and bridges and so on was something.
That I was. Unaware of, you know, unaware of
having to build that in at the beginning and a lot of the
songs. That we did together.
Are not conventional. Structures like that.
They're narratives, they are stories in themselves in a way.
(06:59):
And so that was down to Scott and Jen, the, you know, the
couple, the naked blue. Couple.
Being, I think, very tolerant ofme, you know that.
We we got. Together.
And it was. We got together with the.
Purpose of writing these songs and it was kind of awkward at
the beginning because I was a huge fan of theirs.
(07:20):
They were a huge. Fan of mine.
We were. In danger of becoming too.
Respectful of each other, but that.
Lasted only about 30 seconds because.
We're all. Working pros, you know, we had a
project, we were going to do it and.
I love the actual process. It was so fast.
We were virtually. Writing it in real time, we made
(07:44):
a decision. What should we do?
You know what should this album be about?
And we decided. It would be.
Not. Specifically Jack Reacher, but a
sort of. Tough guy presentation it These
were tough guy songs and I wanted Jen to sing them because
I thought that would be a fantastic kind of contrast in as
(08:07):
much as a tough guy song sung bythis beautiful, pure female
voice. Would really work, so it was.
Just a question of I was coming up with the.
Lyrics, they're the sort of. People that think best with a
guitar in their hands. So we were literally nose to
nose in my living room just doing it.
(08:28):
And you got to, really. Trust people to do that.
Because you know, you come up with stupid lines or.
Bad ideas or whatever. And you're very naked, You're
very vulnerable. But you've got to.
Put it all out in front of the other two and likewise they
they're the same. They have to do it and it worse
(08:49):
for them they're married to. Each other so that.
You know. They're bad ideas live forever,
I guess. Well, I love the concept of the
film. At what point did you decide we
we have to put this on film and show this process and, and and
and show this collaboration between two unique artists?
(09:09):
Well, I knew a filmmaker NC Haiken.
I knew her. Pretty well we were.
Doing. She does a lot of projects.
Based around music. And I did another movie with her
about the rehabilitation of a guy in prison who had been an
awful murderer. And then over a long period he
became the nicest possible guy in San Quentin through playing
(09:33):
the jazz piano. And so I knew her from that
project. And I thought, you know what?
I just want this documented. I just want it as a souvenir.
I knew. That this was the.
Loveliest experience for me and I knew that it probably would
never. Repeat.
So I just. Wanted a personal memory of it
so I asked her to film it and and make.
(09:55):
A music video. Of one of the songs and so on.
And so it was originally for me,just a personal reminder.
Have a. Really, really happy period.
And then we got the. Idea.
Well, let's let other people seeit too.
And I think it is. It's a great little.
Film, obviously for me it's totally sentimental, but I think
(10:16):
it shows how people from different disciplines can.
Cooperate I was completely. Fingers and thumbs about the
music. They were warning my words and
so they were very. Respectful of that, so it was.
A true collaboration and I thought it would be interesting
for other people. To see how that works it, it's
(10:38):
very interesting and you alreadymentioned it, but the songs are
sort of from the perspective of Jack Reacher you described as a
strong character. Tell us a little bit more about
Jack and how his personality found its way into some specific
(10:58):
songs. Well, you know Jack Reacher.
Is. In the modern day.
Story He is a. Retired military cop who now.
Is very restless. He can't settle down.
He wanders the US endlessly, trying to stay out of trouble,
trying to live. A quiet life, but.
(11:19):
Occasionally stumbling into a situation that he needs to fix,
but more than that, he is reallyan ancient character.
He is. The sort of character that has
been. Recreated.
Over and over again during narrative history.
The mysterious stranger or the noble loner?
Who shows up? In the nick of time, he solves
(11:42):
the problem, and then he rides off into the sunset.
The what he had the. Westerns in America were full of
that character and. It stretches.
Back into medieval Europe and the Scandinavians sagas and the
Anglo-Saxon battle poems all theway back to Greek mythology.
Really, we need this character. We want this character to.
(12:04):
We want the. Possibility or the fantasy?
That whatever problems we've got, somebody might show up and.
Fix it for us. Which is an irresistible
fantasy, it seems. You know, that's been proved
over the. Years, so that was.
That was richer and. He shows up.
The the one that I love the. Best is is.
(12:25):
The song called. Sanctuary because in the.
Books. Reacher has always got to be the
tough guy he's always got to be.The winner?
He doesn't. Really express self doubt.
But in that song Sanctuary, he'she once he says let me be weak.
Just once, you know, in the in the in the presence of a woman
(12:46):
he loves very much. Just let me be weak.
Don't make me always. Be.
The powerful 1 and I think. That was a breakthrough.
Really, in as much as you can't really do that in a book
necessarily, but you you sure could on the album and it came
out really nicely. You, you already mentioned that
you decided that you wanted Jen to be the voice for these songs.
(13:09):
Can you tell me a little bit more about why that was an
important decision for a character like Jack Reacher, I
felt. We just needed almost a third
party perspective, you know, so that.
The tough guy, The lyrics. Sung by.
A tough guy voice. I think would have been too on
the nose and too obvious somehow, and probably too
(13:31):
monolithic. But the idea that.
The tough guy sentiment could beexpressed by what is
traditionally. Viewed as a very.
Gentle medium in In other words,a woman's singing voice.
I thought that would. Add a level of intrigue and
interest that otherwise the songs might not have had.
(13:51):
They would have been too obvious, I think, if it had been
a man singing in a gruff kind of.
Tough guy way. So I felt the contrast was what
we needed and I think it. Works really well.
It kind of disassociates the message from a particular
character, makes it a much more universal message, gender free
message. Because that's something else
(14:13):
I've learned about Richard that I imagined at the beginning.
He would be. Predominantly a male fantasy.
The wanderer walking away from responsibility, nothing tying
him down. But I'd learned over the years
from readers that it's absolutely a woman's fantasy as
well. It's it's gender neutral.
The idea that you. Can you could live an individual
(14:35):
life not tied down by responsibility?
And it makes sense I suppose. You know women have to work
incredibly hard and I bet a lot of them everyday think, man, I
wish I could just walk away and be somewhere else tomorrow.
Talking about walking away, there's a discussion in the film
about how when Jack Reacher walks, he walks.
(14:58):
I think it's you could correct me 88 times per per minute and
and that 88 beats per second or something like that is a a
common figure in music. Correct me the way I phrased it,
but but it there is a connectionwith that number 88, right.
(15:20):
Yeah, Richer. Himself is a character, is a
music. Lover he loves.
All Blues songs he. He.
He always is. Playing music in his head and he
hitches when he can. He rides a bus when he can, but
a lot of the time he's walking, and Richer is a kind of nerdy
guy deep down, and he knows. That a lot of.
(15:40):
Great tunes are 88 beats per minute and he's his natural
walking. Pace is 88.
Steps a minute. So he's got just.
An infinite amount of stimulus in his head for playing music to
himself. I love the connection between
music and books and film. I noticed in recent years a lot
(16:03):
of audiobooks have started experimenting with the use of
music. I'm not sure if that's been done
at all in your books, but but doyou think there is a place to
make new connections between books and music, kind of like
you did in this film, and maybe even other ways that we haven't
seen yet? Yeah, for sure.
(16:24):
I mean, like I say, I think thatthe two art forms share a lot in
common in in as much as they're a journey, they start somewhere,
they have a mood, a book has a mood and a feel in the same way
that a song has a key. And so I think there are plenty
of similarities and I think that.
People as a whole, we got to look.
(16:45):
Back, you know, look back not only to previous generations,
but look back to prehistory, story and music.
Has always. Been incredibly important to
humans it's a sort of defining factor, I think you know, we're
called homo sapiens there's a suggestion we shouldn't we
(17:06):
should be called pan narons, in other words, the.
Storytelling ape, because. As far as we know, no other
species makes up fictional stories, so it's incredibly
important to us and we've been doing it probably for hundreds
of thousands. Of years.
Stretching back to when we were primitive, and of course all of
(17:29):
that time was oral. There was no printing.
There was no mechanism for recording anything.
Everything was oral storytelling.
Somebody would. Tell a story.
A bunch of people would be sitting there listening to it.
So, audio books. As a whole, I think are
something that are going to comeback in a big way because it's a
(17:50):
real connection with our centralnature, the delight of listening
to a story and for a long time, the last couple.
Of 100 years or so that. Was not convenient and so we
learned to read. Words off a page.
But I think that's probably going to turn out to be a
temporary blip. Now we have super convenient
(18:12):
ways of listening. You know, we have digital stuff,
everybody has earbuds or headphones or whatever.
It's completely natural now. Downloading is something that is
instantaneous. So we will I.
Think get back to listening to stories, but given our
expectations now and technology.Available.
(18:35):
Sure, we. Should add in music, we should
add in sound effects and so on. There's a kind of technical
glitch with that in as much as. If you sell your.
Work to the movies. Typically they have a huge a
contract. That is very restrictive.
It's not just a movie or TV you're selling, it's any
dramatic production. So that adding multiple voices
(18:58):
or adding a soundtrack might fall foul of that, but that.
Is a sort of. Technical legal thing that can
quickly get resolved. But yeah.
Let's have a completely multi dimensional performance.
Available for people to. Listen to.
I think that would be great. In an age when less and less
people seem to be reading, at least that's what the media is
(19:19):
telling us, that the numbers aregoing down and down and down.
You have come up with such a successful book series.
People love Jack Reacher and I was wondering if you have any
sense as to why people are reading less and are you
concerned about it? I'm not concerned about it at
all. Because.
(19:39):
Like I say, what matters to me is.
Story. And I don't care.
Why would I care? Exactly how people consume that
story, and I think that you can see in people's real lives,
their leisure time is very fragmented.
They. If they are readers, maybe they
read 20 minutes on the bus to work.
(20:00):
Maybe they read 20 minutes in their lunch hour.
And then again 20 minutes beforethey go to.
Sleep so it's. Episodic and they've already got
a phone with them all the time. They've already got earbuds in
their purse. So just to.
Put in the earbuds and press. Play is actually.
More efficient, more beneficial to them than digging in their
(20:24):
purse and opening a book. It's really the same thing.
So I'm not at all protective of the exact medium.
What I want is for people to continue enjoying story, which I
think they inevitably. Will because that does seem.
To be a human need to have. Story, the stories everywhere.
You know a. 32nd TV commercial is a story many times and so the
(20:49):
appetite for story will never goaway the delivery system.
Let's just do whatever people like the best.
Being an author can sometimes bea, you know, a private life
unless one chooses not to. I I found it interesting that
you are upfront in this documentary.
You're in the music video in in the movie, we see that you have
(21:13):
joined Naked Blue on stage at atleast one point.
How does it feel for you to be on camera?
To to be at the forefront, to beon stage?
It's difficult. To be honest, I mean I privately
call writing show business for shy.
People, because we generally. Are you migrate toward what
(21:38):
you're comfortable with? And the thing about being a
writer? Is that you yourself,
physically? Are not in the marketplace.
It's not like being an actor. It's not like being an athlete.
Or a ballplayer where your physical self.
Is in the marketplace. For a writer, your book.
Is in the marketplace and that is a level of detachment that.
(22:00):
Suits a lot of. Writers and it's.
It's difficult for. Writers generally to do all the
on stage promotion that we have to do and so on.
But as far as the music thing, when?
Yeah. I was just thrilled to do it.
You know, it's a dream for me tobe on stage with real musicians
in that moment of performance. It is really magical.
(22:23):
So I cast aside all my shyness and reluctance and was.
Just totally happy to do it. One quick thing you said in the
in the film that I really appreciated was it seems like
you have such a positive attitude.
You said that due to the successof the Jack Reacher books, you
get many opportunities in life that you never would have
(22:45):
expected, and that this opportunity to work on this
music project in the film was just one example.
Can can you give us any other examples of things that you've
kind of had the opportunity to do that was just a nice surprise
based on opportunities that cameabout due to your Jack Reacher
(23:06):
success? Oh, lots of things.
Yeah. You know I've.
Met 2. Presidents of the US and had
dinner and in fact, Bill Clintonwas interviewed me on stage from
one of my book launches. I've, you know, I've met Obama,
(23:26):
actually. Through.
Obama being a writer, that was fun for me because years and
years ago, before anybody knew who he was, he he wrote a book
called Dreams from My Father, which.
I thought was a. Great book and I went into my
publishers office one time for an unconnected reason.
And the thing about a? Publisher's office is.
(23:46):
It's full of books and they lovebooks and anytime you go in,
guaranteed somebody will come upto you and press a book into
your hand and and say you. Got to read this, this is great.
And so Obama's book. Very early was.
Given to me like that and I I was impressed by it and so I I
became a. Supporter of his.
And he kept inviting me to events and so on.
(24:11):
That was fantastic. In Britain I'm involved with the
royal family. The Queen of England runs a
Reading thing that I'm involved with.
They gave me an award. I'm a commander of the British
Empire and so on. It's.
Yeah, you live a life. That is unimaginable from.
What? I thought I would be doing.
(24:32):
That is amazing, and yet you said one of the most pleasurable
things was getting involved withNaked Blue and recording this
music and making this film and that, and that's amazing.
As you look back at this projectas more and more people get to
see it, what would you say was the most rewarding part of this
process for you? Just to be involved in it, you
(24:56):
know, I've often wondered what must.
It feel like to let's say you'rea.
Band you've got, you've got to do an album.
What is the process like? I know what it's like as a
writer and there are a lot of highs in that that.
If you do a good bit, you feel great, I thought.
Does is that the same in music? So just to be involved in it was
great. Watching how it turned.
(25:17):
It moves from being a kind of half stated idea and then a few
months later it's on the album, completely produced, sounding
wonderful. As a fully.
Formed product watching that. Process was great.
But just really being around people that were ferociously
(25:37):
talented in something that I wasnot was inspiring, you know,
kind of similar if you meet a baseball.
Player or a football? Player or something and you're
in their world for a minute. They're completely normal people
in terms of the rest. Of their lives.
But that one thing, they're superhuman in terms of their
skill and talent. And it was just observing that
(25:58):
upfront that I found really fascinating that things that I
would never have thought to do, they just instinctively do and
they turn. What was a page of words?
For me, into a finished song. Was a mysterious process, but to
observe it? Was really inspiring.
(26:19):
Well, we've been speaking with Lee Child and we're talking
about his movie If Jack Reacher Could Sing.
It's going to be playing at the Long Island Music and
Entertainment Hall of Fame MusicDocumentary Film Festival on
Saturday, August 9th at 1:15. A special performance in Q&A
with Naked Blue and Lee. I want to thank you so much.
(26:41):
It's it's really an honor to geta chance to speak to you.
And I can't wait to hear about what you want to tell us really
quickly. What's up next for you?
Just what I'm you know what I'm doing.
Read your books. Short.
Stories here and there. I'm trying to also.
Give back a little. Bit I'm doing a project for
books and prisons. Because I feel like.
(27:04):
I'm not a soft hearted person particularly.
Most people in prison deserve tobe there.
But there's. Always one or two out of 10.
That you could. Help or save and literacy is a.
Problem for a lot of people that.
Alienates them from normal life.So we're trying to do something
about teaching people to read and maybe helping them settle
into a more normal and conventional lifestyle.
(27:26):
So yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm supposed to be retired now, but I'm
busier than ever really. Well, we'll all be looking to
hear about some of these different things that you
mentioned and of course, the books and and shows.
Lee, thank you so much for joining us on The Sounds of
Film. It's a real pleasure.
Tom, it's good to speak to you.
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