October 9, 2025 • 25 mins
The Sounds of Film is spotlighting Richard Ladkani, the award-winning director of YANUNI, a breathtaking new documentary featured at the Hamptons International Film Festival. The film follows Indigenous leader Juma Xipaia from her remote village in the Brazilian Amazon to the political frontlines of climate justice.
After surviving six assassination attempts, Juma becomes Brazil’s first Secretary of Indigenous Rights, while her husband, Hugo Loss, leads dangerous operations against illegal gold miners in the rainforest. Filmed over four years, YANUNI offers an intimate look at their love, courage, and resilience amid rising environmental threats. Executive produced by Leonardo DiCaprio, the film continues Ladkani’s legacy of powerful environmental storytelling, seen previously in Sea of Shadows and The Ivory Game.
Richard Ladkani is an acclaimed Austrian filmmaker and cinematographer who has directed more than fifty documentaries for major international broadcasters, including National Geographic and the BBC. Known for his immersive, visually striking style, Ladkani’s work often explores urgent environmental and human rights issues. His films The Ivory Game and Sea of Shadows both earned global recognition—Sea of Shadows won the Sundance Audience Award, while The Ivory Game was shortlisted for an Academy Award. In 2015, he co-founded Malaika Pictures with his wife Anita, focusing on cinematic storytelling that inspires awareness and change.
In his interview with The Sounds of Film, Ladkani discusses the challenges of filming in the Amazon, his collaboration with Juma Xipaia, and how YANUNI illuminates one of the world’s most critical environmental and human rights struggles.
Hosted by Tom Needham, The Sounds of Film is the nation’s longest-running film and music-themed radio show, offering in-depth interviews with leading voices in cinema and culture. Past guests include Billy Joel, Alexander Payne, Carter Burwell, and Howard Shore.
The Sounds of Film airs on WUSB 90.1 FM Stony Brook and streams live at wusb.fm. Episodes are also available on major podcast platforms including Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, and iHeartRadio.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hi, this is Tom Needham and you are listening to the sounds of
film. Today I'll be speaking with the
award-winning film maker RichardMakani, the director of Yanouni,
a powerful new documentary aboutthe indigenous leader Juma
Zapaya and her fight to defend the Amazon rainforest.
Filmed over five years, the filmfollows her rise from her remote
(00:24):
village to becoming Brazil's first secretary of Indigenous
rights. Executive produced by Leonardo
DiCaprio, The Nuni is both an intimate love story and a call
to action for the planet. Richard, thank you for joining
us on The Sounds of Film today. Thanks so much.
Great to be there. Thank you.
Yeah, great. So tell me about how this film
(00:46):
came to be. You know, it all started back in
2019 when I saw all these imagesof the Amazon burning on TV.
It was like on CNN and all over the New York Times was
reporting. And I thought, you know, this
could be such a powerful like topic for a new film.
But there was 111. Big problem is that I myself
(01:08):
have become actually kind of, you know, insensitive to films
about the the Amazon just because I didn't feel anything
anymore, like I've been too many.
So I thought maybe a new approach, a new voice could make
a difference, so people could feel empathy again and just kind
of reconnect and want to do something.
So that started this, this process of six months of
research. I was really, really tough going
(01:31):
through like NGOs and journalists.
And then at the very end, I, I was finally introduced to Juma.
And that was actually quite a privilege because Juma had been
in hiding. She just lived 1/6, her sixth
attempt on her life. She'd been poisoned and she
didn't want to talk to anyone, but but this journalist that
introduced us, she really trusted and she said, you know,
(01:53):
maybe, maybe Richard is different.
I think he, you know, he, he, hecould maybe do make a
difference. And and so Juma allowed me to to
reach her. You know, she was in our hiding
place somewhere in the Amazon. And we talked for one and half
hours. And I was just blown away
because she's so powerful, She'sso poetic.
She has this beautiful way of, of, of talking about the issues
(02:15):
and the fight of the indigenous people.
And she made me cry on that veryfirst call.
Like, I was just like, you know,and I didn't even know her.
And I thought, imagine what could happen if I would be able
to show, you know, her life and be able to follow her and kind
of like, bring her voice to the world.
And that was the beginning of a long journey where she allowed
(02:39):
me in into her territory and herfamily and her life.
And five years later, now, here we are, you know, and we have
this film that we're bringing tothe world.
It's amazing. Can you tell our audience just a
little bit more just background information for for people that
are not familiar with who she is?
Right. So Juma Shipai has been an
(03:00):
activist since her teenage yearsand she's been at the forefront
of of resistance in the Amazon. And that's why she she's been
targeted so many times. People just want to kill her
because she's a powerful voice and and she's fighting basically
against the invasions of her territory and the territories of
other indigenous peoples becausethey're being threatened by
(03:22):
illegal loggers and miners. People who want to look for
gold, you know, like with the gold price currently at an all
time high, there's a massive gold rush in the Amazon.
And the problem with gold miningis that they use poisonous
mercury to extract the gold fromthe earth and the water.
So they poison the river systemsand poison the fish or their
(03:46):
food source, the plants. Everything gets poisoned, they
get sick, they die. And when, you know, the
indigenous people weaken, they, you know, all their results
naturally weakens because they're sick and they're, you
know, they're getting killed. And that's what these illegals
used to their advantage. And they just keep pushing them
(04:06):
out of their, you know, protected territories, claim
lands and just destroy whatever is left there.
And that's the huge problem. You know, that's what this film
is trying to expose as well. But I'm more focused on this
personal fight and what it takesto be a resistant fighter and
then to be on the forefront of this and to stand in the way.
(04:28):
So this is a very personal journey that I decided to take
to the the audience on it's lessof an issue film.
It's more like look at this remarkable human being that is
risking our life every day for people, for the Amazon and
actually for all of us, for the planet.
Because if we use the Amazon, welose everything, you know?
(04:50):
Well, you risked your life too, I understand, in making this
film. Before we get into that, though,
can you just tell us like, what were some of the attempts that
were made on her life and who has been responsible for those
attempts? Well, we don't talk about it in
the film extensively, you know, because we this happened before
(05:11):
filming started. So 6 attempts in her life and
who's behind it is always the mystery.
No one has ever been prosecuted.It's usually poison that they
use or it's a targeted, you know, attack from a drive by by
masked people. We know that the people who are
ordering these attacks are in fact, you know, connected to the
(05:33):
illegal loggers and minors like that.
They're like, like a mafia, you know, And Brazil is one of the
most dangerous countries you could imagine.
So when you're, you know, in theway of these people who want to
make millions of dollars by, youknow, excavating on your land or
taking your trees, then an attack comes quickly.
(05:55):
You know, some gunman is hired and they just execute people
basically on a daily basis for like, no money at all.
So that's the problem, you know,that that, you know, a life is
taken so easily. And yeah, and that's what makes
Juma's story so remarkable, but also dangerous for us to to tell
(06:17):
because we have to take into consideration that, you know, us
making a film about her could actually add a threat.
So we took security extremely seriously from the beginning.
We worked with a security team that advised us were Brazilians
on the ground experts, and security was our top priority
throughout the filming and beyond.
So we have a whole plan for her and her family and her people to
(06:41):
keep her safe for years to come.It's very expensive, but it's
the most important for us and for her and for all of us.
So yeah, it's a dangerous world.Even with with that security,
did you have any fear starting this project and what were some
of the scariest moments for you?You know, there is always fear,
(07:05):
but we try to mitigate these fears through being prepared.
So we work, you know, with with people who come highly
recommended. And every country and every
topic is different. And for us, that's like, you
know, safety. Safety is number 1.
And so it wasn't so much fear. It was just like we really got
(07:28):
to raise enough money so we can protect everyone involved with
this film and, and come out, youknow, alive in in the end and
just be able to make, you know, have our voice heard, have a
great film out there without anyone getting harmed.
But it's a, it's a tough Rd. That's what makes these films
quite expensive. We have great partners from the
(07:49):
beginning like NIA Terrell, who's very involved in
Indigenous filmmaking and and Indigenous support.
We had Age of Union involved, another philanthropic
organization from Canada who equally took it seriously and
Telex Film and the Austrian FilmBoard.
And all of us were working in tandem thinking how can we make
Juma's life and, and, and her family's life also more secure
(08:14):
And, and it was a, you know, a joint, a joint venture.
So yeah, I wouldn't say it was there was, there wasn't fear.
It was just like we need to be ready.
It was awareness. One of the exciting parts of the
movie is when a team of people go into the Amazon and they find
(08:35):
people who are illegally mining.And I was wondering if you could
tell us about the people that you were with, that you were
filming with and and what you discovered?
Right. So Juma is not only a remarkable
indigenous leader, she happens to also be married to Hugo Loss,
who's the the the head commanderof the Environmental Protection
(08:58):
Agency of Brazils forces, you know, armed forces.
So he works for the government and he goes in the into these
very dangerous missions deep into the Amazon where they
attack illegal mining camps and loggers.
And what they actually do is they try to destroy the
(09:19):
equipment that they use, which is the most effective way of,
of, of decimating their destructive force.
Is, you know, they use, for example, giant ships that are
maybe worth three $400,000 each.And they bring them deep into
the Amazon to then suck up all the, the sludge from the rivers
(09:40):
and, and, and filter it with mercury, like enrich it actually
with mercury to extract the goldand all the poisonous water
comes out of the back end. So these massive ships, we call
them factory ships, they that those are the targets that they
seek. And if you destroy such a ship
by just burning it, you really are, you know, making a big dent
(10:04):
on these organizations that are funding, you know, the illegal
cartels who are funding these gold mining operations.
So we followed Hugo, which was abig, you know, adventure, I'll
say, and also quite dangerous todo because, you know, they, they
only allowed me personally to come along because on these
(10:25):
helicopters that they use, you know, there's always like a
group of four or five soldiers on each helicopter and I would
take one seat of 1 soldier. So they already had one less
person for their own security and to tackle, you know, the,
the targets and, and me being there, I had to also take care
of myself because they, they were said, look, we're already
(10:48):
down one man insecurity for ourselves.
We can't provide additional security security for you.
So you have to stay safe. You know, you have to try to
like, you know, don't make a mistake.
Stay out of harm's way as much as you can.
When shots are fired, duck to the ground and do our job.
And that's what, you know, what I did and and basically I went
(11:12):
with them on on multiple missions weeks long into the
Amazon and was very self, you know, had to work very
efficiently, but self sustain. So, you know, I had to do my own
charging of batteries, fly the drone, do the sound, do the
camera, stay safe, tell a story.And it was it was pretty hard to
(11:33):
do, but it was so important to show the devastation on the
front lines. So I, I really wanted to come
along and, and I was ready to take that risk because without
showing the devastation and how it's also being tackled by the
government, I think we would have been missing a big part of
the picture. And it was just a miracle that
(11:55):
he happened to be the husband ofJuma, who I chose because she's
such a remarkable woman. But I had no idea that her
husband would be such a remarkable figure as well.
So so I was happy to be able to tell both of their stories.
Yeah, it's going to say it's rare, but you got 2 great people
to, to make a movie about. One of the things that like what
(12:17):
kind of amazed me was that when they would go in, you mentioned
that it was very dangerous and there were cartels and big money
involved and yet it seemed like,umm, when they would be
approached, it was, at least in the scenes that I saw, no
resistance unless you didn't show everything.
(12:38):
They seemed to give up very easily.
Umm, I'm sure that's not always the norm, but but why was that?
It's because the people who are operating the ships and the
machineries and all that, they're poor peasants from
nearby villages. You know, the equipment is being
bought by the cartels. The people who work on these
ships, they're like poor labor force.
(13:00):
So they have everything to lose,meaning their lives, and they
don't really care that they're going to lose that shit because
it's not their shit. They didn't buy it.
They were just employed to to operate it.
So they do is when they see the soldiers come with the big
helicopters, you know, with the machine guns and everything, the
tear gas, they know that they don't have a chance.
(13:22):
And if they resist, they will die.
You know, this is an armed fight.
So basically they have no chance.
Sometimes though, like we had itthat we were shot at, we didn't
put that in the film for variousreasons, but there was the, you
know, the occasional gun battle that lasted, you know, shortly.
(13:44):
But it was basically they run into the forest, they hide and
then they they fire from the cover of the forest.
And it was usually just one or two pops.
And then they would run it againbecause they it was more anger
than actual real resistance because they knew that if if
they come after them, they will die.
You know, these are high nightlytrained soldiers that are coming
(14:06):
so rarely you have resistance, but it does happen.
And when it happens, usually thethe people, the the, the
illegals, they, they die. And that has happened before.
Yeah. But I wasn't on one of those
missions where that happened, fortunately.
So they usually run away. Well, this is also a story about
(14:28):
family and it's a love story too, which is a really
unexpected thing if you're just watching this movie and you
hadn't read about it. There's a lot of emotion in this
film. And and like, like you said
earlier, that that was an important decision because it
really puts a human face on what's going on over there.
(14:49):
Tell me what you learned about their relationship and their
family. Well, they are so deeply united,
the two of them and their children that I thought, you
know, I have to make this. I mean, there was no choice
really. I mean, it was like they love
each other very much. You know, they, they have a
child in the in the film. So it's like, you know, it's,
(15:12):
it's even bad and they risk their lives together.
So every every time that she goes on a mission or even Juma
disappears into the forest to for some protest or, you know,
for some resistance kind of gathering, they don't know if
they're going to see each other again, you know, so life and
death are very close in Brazil. They're very, you know, a lot of
(15:33):
people die all the time. So they know that, you know,
they have these precious momentsand they they use their their
peaceful moments that they have at home with the children, you
know, for love and for taking care of each other.
And I thought that was yeah, I was deeply human and, and, and
loving and emotional and becauseI spent so much time with them
(15:56):
and I also learned Portuguese tomake this film so I could just
kind of talk to them directly without a translator or any in
need of, you know, any anyone else.
I became part of the family and I was able to capture that love
that they have for them and and and yeah, beautiful couple that
is fighting for the Amazon and for for all of us, you know?
(16:19):
But here they are two months ago.
Nobody has ever known them or met them.
But this film will change that and will hopefully inspire
people that these people exist. You are part of the story too,
in the sense that like in other films that you've made, you
immerse yourself in, in various subjects in in their
(16:42):
environments and their culture. And I was wondering why this
appeals to you as a as a human being.
Why this need to completely immerse yourself and other
people's stories and sometimes at your own risk, and give up so
many years of your life for something like this?
(17:05):
Well, I've been moved by my biggest mentor in life who
changed everything about how I approach my projects and my
films, which was Jane Goodall. I've known her for 17 years.
I've met her in 2007 making the film Jane's Journey, and she was
the one who inspired me to make films that can change the world,
(17:26):
that can make a difference, you know, make the world a better
place. And she put me on this path.
And it was obviously incredibly sad that I heard when I heard
about her passing, we were very,very close to this day.
And she's the one that that, yeah, got me on this track and
(17:49):
has been with me all of this. And I've watched her give her
life to the cause. And I just wanted to follow in
her footsteps and do my part. And my part is filmmaking.
And I decided long ago that I just, you know, I didn't just
want to make films for the sake of telling a story or, or make,
you know, create something entertaining or educational.
(18:11):
I wanted to move, you know, I wanted to really get in there
and show something that is goingon that's very important for
people to know about. But have them feel something
because if you don't connect, ifyou don't feel, if you don't, if
you're not inspired by what you see, nothing is going to change.
And these films that that that Ido that we do because we're
(18:32):
actually a really big team behind this film.
Especially my wife Anita, she's the producer of the film.
We work in tandem. You know, they're like, my
brother is involved. Like there's we're like a family
doing this and and what gets us out of bed in the morning is
that we, you know, we really want to tell these stories.
(18:52):
This is our life. It's like a mission.
It's like, you know, it's so inspiring when when a movie
works and you get people to, to donate, you know, to certain
people or NGOs or like who want to come in and help or a law has
changed or you're able to stop some, you know, destruction of
an ecosystem because your film has exposed what's really
(19:16):
happening. If exposed corruption.
It's just like you, you leave a dent on this world.
You know, it's not just for the sake of a film.
It's it's making a difference and trying to do your part, you
know, and that's why we make these films.
And just really quickly, I mentioned Leonardo DiCaprio.
Why did he want to get involved with your movie?
(19:39):
Well, we've worked together for 10 years.
This is our third project together, a force it's in the
making and we somehow aligned, you know, like he felt that the
films that I do, you know, they really resonate with him and and
he wants to be part of it and involved and and help and with
the Amazon, it was actually likea like an idea we.
(20:01):
We had together after we finished our last film, Sea of
Shadows, it was actually on the premiere night and Django was
there as well. What we decided, you know, we
should do something about the Amazon.
And he's been deeply connected with indigenous peoples in the
Amazon across South America. And he was totally for it right
from the beginning. He helped raise the financing.
(20:24):
You know, a big part of the financing came through him, not
personally, but he found the people that would invest in the
film and get, you know, which was Neo Taro actually.
And, and he's been involved throughout.
You know, he opens on doors. Sometimes his name helps to get
you an interview or, you know, get you permission somewhere.
He's been involved in the editing process, gave us notes,
(20:47):
you know, so he's been there. And he, you know, he was there
when we premiered to film in Tribeca and gave a really
powerful speech on how this filmcan help shape the future of the
Amazon. And.
And so, you know, it's a great partnership.
And, you know, we became friendsover the years and there's
trust. And yeah, we're very excited to
(21:09):
work together and to try to makea difference together.
That's great. And one last question.
It seemed like as Juma became more prominent, she was always
sort of torn. It would affect her family.
She wouldn't be able to see her kids all the time and it seemed
like she wanted to just be back in the Amazon.
(21:31):
You were there. Can you see how she has that
yearning just for the old life and time with the family?
And what do you think keeps her going?
Great question. Well, look, her love is just,
you know, the Amazon. To be in the forest with her
(21:53):
people and her children and livea quiet and peaceful life, that
is her dream. But it's impossible because the
invaders are at the doorstep. You know, they're like coming
in. They are trying to claim land by
illegally pushing themselves in or sell out.
Like get find some indigenous people who would be willing to
(22:14):
take $1,000,000 to just walk away and let them do whatever
they want to do with their destructive machines.
So you have this constant threat.
So the problem Juma has, deep inher heart, she just wants to
live in peace. But she also knows there is no
peace. They are at war.
And the war has been going on for 500 years.
And if she's not doing her part to go out there and to fight and
(22:37):
resist, they're going to lose what they have.
She will lose what she has and she will never be able to live
that dream. So she she's a torn person.
And that's also the focus of thefilm, that she just can't sit at
home and think everything's going to be fine because it's
not. They are coming.
And that's why she decided to goout there, you know, be part of
(22:59):
this movie as well because she hopes this movie may elevate her
voice beyond the borders of Brazil or even just her
territory And give him, give them more hope, give them more
to fight with. You know, maybe the movie could
be used as a tool at, like, you know, climate summits or big
legislation decisions. And it was just a decision, you
(23:21):
know, to fight back and use thismovie to be, you know, have a
stronger voice in this world. But the war is not over.
It's a battle that's constantly going on.
And we're in the middle of it. And we're trying to do our best
to mitigate risks for her, for her family and her territory,
but at the same time to make a difference.
(23:43):
Well, Richard, I want to thank you so much for coming on the
program. We've been speaking about
Yanouni. The film is a featured
documentary at the Hamptons International Film Festival.
And can you tell us where we cango online to learn more about
your movie and other screenings?So Yanuni Film with AY Yanuni
(24:04):
Film is our Instagram page wherewe are publicizing all these
festivals that are coming up. So we're at more than 30 film
festivals globally touring rightnow and there's more being added
every week. And we're currently talking to
distribution partners who will hopefully put it on the
streaming platform very soon. This is to be announced, but
(24:27):
just keep keep looking out for it.
So over the next couple of months, it's a festival run, you
know that where you can catch the film next will be in Los
Angeles at the Los Angeles Brazil Film Festival.
We're currently in Mill Valley at the festival, then we're in
Hot Springs and it's Savannah, on and on.
You know, we're touring the world.
We're going to Sao Paulo, Brazil, across Europe and taking
(24:49):
the films to as many places as possible and then hopefully will
be available online very, very soon.
Well, this is a very powerful, amazing film.
Highly recommended. Richard, I want to thank you so
much for coming on The Sounds ofFilm.
Wonderful to be here. Thank you so much.
Great questions. Thank you.
Hi, this is Tom Needham and you are listening to the sounds of
film. Today I'll be speaking with the
award-winning film maker RichardMakani, the director of Yanouni,
a powerful new documentary aboutthe indigenous leader Juma
Zapaya and her fight to defend the Amazon rainforest.
Filmed over five years, the filmfollows her rise from her remote
(00:24):
village to becoming Brazil's first secretary of Indigenous
rights. Executive produced by Leonardo
DiCaprio, The Nuni is both an intimate love story and a call
to action for the planet. Richard, thank you for joining
us on The Sounds of Film today. Thanks so much.
Great to be there. Thank you.
Yeah, great. So tell me about how this film
(00:46):
came to be. You know, it all started back in
2019 when I saw all these imagesof the Amazon burning on TV.
It was like on CNN and all over the New York Times was
reporting. And I thought, you know, this
could be such a powerful like topic for a new film.
But there was 111. Big problem is that I myself
(01:08):
have become actually kind of, you know, insensitive to films
about the the Amazon just because I didn't feel anything
anymore, like I've been too many.
So I thought maybe a new approach, a new voice could make
a difference, so people could feel empathy again and just kind
of reconnect and want to do something.
So that started this, this process of six months of
research. I was really, really tough going
(01:31):
through like NGOs and journalists.
And then at the very end, I, I was finally introduced to Juma.
And that was actually quite a privilege because Juma had been
in hiding. She just lived 1/6, her sixth
attempt on her life. She'd been poisoned and she
didn't want to talk to anyone, but but this journalist that
introduced us, she really trusted and she said, you know,
(01:53):
maybe, maybe Richard is different.
I think he, you know, he, he, hecould maybe do make a
difference. And and so Juma allowed me to to
reach her. You know, she was in our hiding
place somewhere in the Amazon. And we talked for one and half
hours. And I was just blown away
because she's so powerful, She'sso poetic.
She has this beautiful way of, of, of talking about the issues
(02:15):
and the fight of the indigenous people.
And she made me cry on that veryfirst call.
Like, I was just like, you know,and I didn't even know her.
And I thought, imagine what could happen if I would be able
to show, you know, her life and be able to follow her and kind
of like, bring her voice to the world.
And that was the beginning of a long journey where she allowed
(02:39):
me in into her territory and herfamily and her life.
And five years later, now, here we are, you know, and we have
this film that we're bringing tothe world.
It's amazing. Can you tell our audience just a
little bit more just background information for for people that
are not familiar with who she is?
Right. So Juma Shipai has been an
(03:00):
activist since her teenage yearsand she's been at the forefront
of of resistance in the Amazon. And that's why she she's been
targeted so many times. People just want to kill her
because she's a powerful voice and and she's fighting basically
against the invasions of her territory and the territories of
other indigenous peoples becausethey're being threatened by
(03:22):
illegal loggers and miners. People who want to look for
gold, you know, like with the gold price currently at an all
time high, there's a massive gold rush in the Amazon.
And the problem with gold miningis that they use poisonous
mercury to extract the gold fromthe earth and the water.
So they poison the river systemsand poison the fish or their
(03:46):
food source, the plants. Everything gets poisoned, they
get sick, they die. And when, you know, the
indigenous people weaken, they, you know, all their results
naturally weakens because they're sick and they're, you
know, they're getting killed. And that's what these illegals
used to their advantage. And they just keep pushing them
(04:06):
out of their, you know, protected territories, claim
lands and just destroy whatever is left there.
And that's the huge problem. You know, that's what this film
is trying to expose as well. But I'm more focused on this
personal fight and what it takesto be a resistant fighter and
then to be on the forefront of this and to stand in the way.
(04:28):
So this is a very personal journey that I decided to take
to the the audience on it's lessof an issue film.
It's more like look at this remarkable human being that is
risking our life every day for people, for the Amazon and
actually for all of us, for the planet.
Because if we use the Amazon, welose everything, you know?
(04:50):
Well, you risked your life too, I understand, in making this
film. Before we get into that, though,
can you just tell us like, what were some of the attempts that
were made on her life and who has been responsible for those
attempts? Well, we don't talk about it in
the film extensively, you know, because we this happened before
(05:11):
filming started. So 6 attempts in her life and
who's behind it is always the mystery.
No one has ever been prosecuted.It's usually poison that they
use or it's a targeted, you know, attack from a drive by by
masked people. We know that the people who are
ordering these attacks are in fact, you know, connected to the
(05:33):
illegal loggers and minors like that.
They're like, like a mafia, you know, And Brazil is one of the
most dangerous countries you could imagine.
So when you're, you know, in theway of these people who want to
make millions of dollars by, youknow, excavating on your land or
taking your trees, then an attack comes quickly.
(05:55):
You know, some gunman is hired and they just execute people
basically on a daily basis for like, no money at all.
So that's the problem, you know,that that, you know, a life is
taken so easily. And yeah, and that's what makes
Juma's story so remarkable, but also dangerous for us to to tell
(06:17):
because we have to take into consideration that, you know, us
making a film about her could actually add a threat.
So we took security extremely seriously from the beginning.
We worked with a security team that advised us were Brazilians
on the ground experts, and security was our top priority
throughout the filming and beyond.
So we have a whole plan for her and her family and her people to
(06:41):
keep her safe for years to come.It's very expensive, but it's
the most important for us and for her and for all of us.
So yeah, it's a dangerous world.Even with with that security,
did you have any fear starting this project and what were some
of the scariest moments for you?You know, there is always fear,
(07:05):
but we try to mitigate these fears through being prepared.
So we work, you know, with with people who come highly
recommended. And every country and every
topic is different. And for us, that's like, you
know, safety. Safety is number 1.
And so it wasn't so much fear. It was just like we really got
(07:28):
to raise enough money so we can protect everyone involved with
this film and, and come out, youknow, alive in in the end and
just be able to make, you know, have our voice heard, have a
great film out there without anyone getting harmed.
But it's a, it's a tough Rd. That's what makes these films
quite expensive. We have great partners from the
(07:49):
beginning like NIA Terrell, who's very involved in
Indigenous filmmaking and and Indigenous support.
We had Age of Union involved, another philanthropic
organization from Canada who equally took it seriously and
Telex Film and the Austrian FilmBoard.
And all of us were working in tandem thinking how can we make
Juma's life and, and, and her family's life also more secure
(08:14):
And, and it was a, you know, a joint, a joint venture.
So yeah, I wouldn't say it was there was, there wasn't fear.
It was just like we need to be ready.
It was awareness. One of the exciting parts of the
movie is when a team of people go into the Amazon and they find
(08:35):
people who are illegally mining.And I was wondering if you could
tell us about the people that you were with, that you were
filming with and and what you discovered?
Right. So Juma is not only a remarkable
indigenous leader, she happens to also be married to Hugo Loss,
who's the the the head commanderof the Environmental Protection
(08:58):
Agency of Brazils forces, you know, armed forces.
So he works for the government and he goes in the into these
very dangerous missions deep into the Amazon where they
attack illegal mining camps and loggers.
And what they actually do is they try to destroy the
(09:19):
equipment that they use, which is the most effective way of,
of, of decimating their destructive force.
Is, you know, they use, for example, giant ships that are
maybe worth three $400,000 each.And they bring them deep into
the Amazon to then suck up all the, the sludge from the rivers
(09:40):
and, and, and filter it with mercury, like enrich it actually
with mercury to extract the goldand all the poisonous water
comes out of the back end. So these massive ships, we call
them factory ships, they that those are the targets that they
seek. And if you destroy such a ship
by just burning it, you really are, you know, making a big dent
(10:04):
on these organizations that are funding, you know, the illegal
cartels who are funding these gold mining operations.
So we followed Hugo, which was abig, you know, adventure, I'll
say, and also quite dangerous todo because, you know, they, they
only allowed me personally to come along because on these
(10:25):
helicopters that they use, you know, there's always like a
group of four or five soldiers on each helicopter and I would
take one seat of 1 soldier. So they already had one less
person for their own security and to tackle, you know, the,
the targets and, and me being there, I had to also take care
of myself because they, they were said, look, we're already
(10:48):
down one man insecurity for ourselves.
We can't provide additional security security for you.
So you have to stay safe. You know, you have to try to
like, you know, don't make a mistake.
Stay out of harm's way as much as you can.
When shots are fired, duck to the ground and do our job.
And that's what, you know, what I did and and basically I went
(11:12):
with them on on multiple missions weeks long into the
Amazon and was very self, you know, had to work very
efficiently, but self sustain. So, you know, I had to do my own
charging of batteries, fly the drone, do the sound, do the
camera, stay safe, tell a story.And it was it was pretty hard to
(11:33):
do, but it was so important to show the devastation on the
front lines. So I, I really wanted to come
along and, and I was ready to take that risk because without
showing the devastation and how it's also being tackled by the
government, I think we would have been missing a big part of
the picture. And it was just a miracle that
(11:55):
he happened to be the husband ofJuma, who I chose because she's
such a remarkable woman. But I had no idea that her
husband would be such a remarkable figure as well.
So so I was happy to be able to tell both of their stories.
Yeah, it's going to say it's rare, but you got 2 great people
to, to make a movie about. One of the things that like what
(12:17):
kind of amazed me was that when they would go in, you mentioned
that it was very dangerous and there were cartels and big money
involved and yet it seemed like,umm, when they would be
approached, it was, at least in the scenes that I saw, no
resistance unless you didn't show everything.
(12:38):
They seemed to give up very easily.
Umm, I'm sure that's not always the norm, but but why was that?
It's because the people who are operating the ships and the
machineries and all that, they're poor peasants from
nearby villages. You know, the equipment is being
bought by the cartels. The people who work on these
ships, they're like poor labor force.
(13:00):
So they have everything to lose,meaning their lives, and they
don't really care that they're going to lose that shit because
it's not their shit. They didn't buy it.
They were just employed to to operate it.
So they do is when they see the soldiers come with the big
helicopters, you know, with the machine guns and everything, the
tear gas, they know that they don't have a chance.
(13:22):
And if they resist, they will die.
You know, this is an armed fight.
So basically they have no chance.
Sometimes though, like we had itthat we were shot at, we didn't
put that in the film for variousreasons, but there was the, you
know, the occasional gun battle that lasted, you know, shortly.
(13:44):
But it was basically they run into the forest, they hide and
then they they fire from the cover of the forest.
And it was usually just one or two pops.
And then they would run it againbecause they it was more anger
than actual real resistance because they knew that if if
they come after them, they will die.
You know, these are high nightlytrained soldiers that are coming
(14:06):
so rarely you have resistance, but it does happen.
And when it happens, usually thethe people, the the, the
illegals, they, they die. And that has happened before.
Yeah. But I wasn't on one of those
missions where that happened, fortunately.
So they usually run away. Well, this is also a story about
(14:28):
family and it's a love story too, which is a really
unexpected thing if you're just watching this movie and you
hadn't read about it. There's a lot of emotion in this
film. And and like, like you said
earlier, that that was an important decision because it
really puts a human face on what's going on over there.
(14:49):
Tell me what you learned about their relationship and their
family. Well, they are so deeply united,
the two of them and their children that I thought, you
know, I have to make this. I mean, there was no choice
really. I mean, it was like they love
each other very much. You know, they, they have a
child in the in the film. So it's like, you know, it's,
(15:12):
it's even bad and they risk their lives together.
So every every time that she goes on a mission or even Juma
disappears into the forest to for some protest or, you know,
for some resistance kind of gathering, they don't know if
they're going to see each other again, you know, so life and
death are very close in Brazil. They're very, you know, a lot of
(15:33):
people die all the time. So they know that, you know,
they have these precious momentsand they they use their their
peaceful moments that they have at home with the children, you
know, for love and for taking care of each other.
And I thought that was yeah, I was deeply human and, and, and
loving and emotional and becauseI spent so much time with them
(15:56):
and I also learned Portuguese tomake this film so I could just
kind of talk to them directly without a translator or any in
need of, you know, any anyone else.
I became part of the family and I was able to capture that love
that they have for them and and and yeah, beautiful couple that
is fighting for the Amazon and for for all of us, you know?
(16:19):
But here they are two months ago.
Nobody has ever known them or met them.
But this film will change that and will hopefully inspire
people that these people exist. You are part of the story too,
in the sense that like in other films that you've made, you
immerse yourself in, in various subjects in in their
(16:42):
environments and their culture. And I was wondering why this
appeals to you as a as a human being.
Why this need to completely immerse yourself and other
people's stories and sometimes at your own risk, and give up so
many years of your life for something like this?
(17:05):
Well, I've been moved by my biggest mentor in life who
changed everything about how I approach my projects and my
films, which was Jane Goodall. I've known her for 17 years.
I've met her in 2007 making the film Jane's Journey, and she was
the one who inspired me to make films that can change the world,
(17:26):
that can make a difference, you know, make the world a better
place. And she put me on this path.
And it was obviously incredibly sad that I heard when I heard
about her passing, we were very,very close to this day.
And she's the one that that, yeah, got me on this track and
(17:49):
has been with me all of this. And I've watched her give her
life to the cause. And I just wanted to follow in
her footsteps and do my part. And my part is filmmaking.
And I decided long ago that I just, you know, I didn't just
want to make films for the sake of telling a story or, or make,
you know, create something entertaining or educational.
(18:11):
I wanted to move, you know, I wanted to really get in there
and show something that is goingon that's very important for
people to know about. But have them feel something
because if you don't connect, ifyou don't feel, if you don't, if
you're not inspired by what you see, nothing is going to change.
And these films that that that Ido that we do because we're
(18:32):
actually a really big team behind this film.
Especially my wife Anita, she's the producer of the film.
We work in tandem. You know, they're like, my
brother is involved. Like there's we're like a family
doing this and and what gets us out of bed in the morning is
that we, you know, we really want to tell these stories.
(18:52):
This is our life. It's like a mission.
It's like, you know, it's so inspiring when when a movie
works and you get people to, to donate, you know, to certain
people or NGOs or like who want to come in and help or a law has
changed or you're able to stop some, you know, destruction of
an ecosystem because your film has exposed what's really
(19:16):
happening. If exposed corruption.
It's just like you, you leave a dent on this world.
You know, it's not just for the sake of a film.
It's it's making a difference and trying to do your part, you
know, and that's why we make these films.
And just really quickly, I mentioned Leonardo DiCaprio.
Why did he want to get involved with your movie?
(19:39):
Well, we've worked together for 10 years.
This is our third project together, a force it's in the
making and we somehow aligned, you know, like he felt that the
films that I do, you know, they really resonate with him and and
he wants to be part of it and involved and and help and with
the Amazon, it was actually likea like an idea we.
(20:01):
We had together after we finished our last film, Sea of
Shadows, it was actually on the premiere night and Django was
there as well. What we decided, you know, we
should do something about the Amazon.
And he's been deeply connected with indigenous peoples in the
Amazon across South America. And he was totally for it right
from the beginning. He helped raise the financing.
(20:24):
You know, a big part of the financing came through him, not
personally, but he found the people that would invest in the
film and get, you know, which was Neo Taro actually.
And, and he's been involved throughout.
You know, he opens on doors. Sometimes his name helps to get
you an interview or, you know, get you permission somewhere.
He's been involved in the editing process, gave us notes,
(20:47):
you know, so he's been there. And he, you know, he was there
when we premiered to film in Tribeca and gave a really
powerful speech on how this filmcan help shape the future of the
Amazon. And.
And so, you know, it's a great partnership.
And, you know, we became friendsover the years and there's
trust. And yeah, we're very excited to
(21:09):
work together and to try to makea difference together.
That's great. And one last question.
It seemed like as Juma became more prominent, she was always
sort of torn. It would affect her family.
She wouldn't be able to see her kids all the time and it seemed
like she wanted to just be back in the Amazon.
(21:31):
You were there. Can you see how she has that
yearning just for the old life and time with the family?
And what do you think keeps her going?
Great question. Well, look, her love is just,
you know, the Amazon. To be in the forest with her
(21:53):
people and her children and livea quiet and peaceful life, that
is her dream. But it's impossible because the
invaders are at the doorstep. You know, they're like coming
in. They are trying to claim land by
illegally pushing themselves in or sell out.
Like get find some indigenous people who would be willing to
(22:14):
take $1,000,000 to just walk away and let them do whatever
they want to do with their destructive machines.
So you have this constant threat.
So the problem Juma has, deep inher heart, she just wants to
live in peace. But she also knows there is no
peace. They are at war.
And the war has been going on for 500 years.
And if she's not doing her part to go out there and to fight and
(22:37):
resist, they're going to lose what they have.
She will lose what she has and she will never be able to live
that dream. So she she's a torn person.
And that's also the focus of thefilm, that she just can't sit at
home and think everything's going to be fine because it's
not. They are coming.
And that's why she decided to goout there, you know, be part of
(22:59):
this movie as well because she hopes this movie may elevate her
voice beyond the borders of Brazil or even just her
territory And give him, give them more hope, give them more
to fight with. You know, maybe the movie could
be used as a tool at, like, you know, climate summits or big
legislation decisions. And it was just a decision, you
(23:21):
know, to fight back and use thismovie to be, you know, have a
stronger voice in this world. But the war is not over.
It's a battle that's constantly going on.
And we're in the middle of it. And we're trying to do our best
to mitigate risks for her, for her family and her territory,
but at the same time to make a difference.
(23:43):
Well, Richard, I want to thank you so much for coming on the
program. We've been speaking about
Yanouni. The film is a featured
documentary at the Hamptons International Film Festival.
And can you tell us where we cango online to learn more about
your movie and other screenings?So Yanuni Film with AY Yanuni
(24:04):
Film is our Instagram page wherewe are publicizing all these
festivals that are coming up. So we're at more than 30 film
festivals globally touring rightnow and there's more being added
every week. And we're currently talking to
distribution partners who will hopefully put it on the
streaming platform very soon. This is to be announced, but
(24:27):
just keep keep looking out for it.
So over the next couple of months, it's a festival run, you
know that where you can catch the film next will be in Los
Angeles at the Los Angeles Brazil Film Festival.
We're currently in Mill Valley at the festival, then we're in
Hot Springs and it's Savannah, on and on.
You know, we're touring the world.
We're going to Sao Paulo, Brazil, across Europe and taking
(24:49):
the films to as many places as possible and then hopefully will
be available online very, very soon.
Well, this is a very powerful, amazing film.
Highly recommended. Richard, I want to thank you so
much for coming on The Sounds ofFilm.
Wonderful to be here. Thank you so much.
Great questions. Thank you.
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