It's a Fandom Thing's Erin on Trent Reznor's Curation of The Natural Born Killers Soundtrack (1994)

Erin Marlow of It's a Fandom Thing joins Nicole and Ryan to talk about the 1994 Oliver Stone film, Natural Born Killers. It began as a Quentin Tarantino script before Oliver Stone turned it into an entirely different thing, which is just one of many controversies that surround this film. What's not controversial is the greatness of the Natural Born Killers Soundtrack. Trent Reznor currated the soundtrack and contributed two Nine Inch Nails to the soundtrack, specifically writing "Burn" for the film. The soundtrack also features songs from Leonard Cohen, Lard, L7, The Cowboy Junkies, Peter Gabriel and more.

Chapters
00:00:00 Introducing Erin of It's a Fandom Thing and Why She Chose Natural Born Killers
17:34 Trent Reznor - Soundtrack Currator / Serial Killer Afficionado
28:39 Tarantino Meets Johnny Cash and Casting the Leads of the Film
39:05 The Bands on the Natural Born Killer Soundtrack
43:05 Juliette Lewis' Breakthrough Peformance
51:47 The 90 Aesthetics, Commercials and Gangsta Rap
59:17 Back to the Soundtrack
1:07:30 One Last Question
1:13:37 Thank You's and Goodbyes

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:14):
I'm Ryan Pack and Nicole Marlowe and this is Soundtrack
or What, where we speak with the guests about the
soundtrack that is important to them today. Our guest is
Aaron Marlowe, host of the It's a Fandom Thing podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Welcome, Ern, Hi, thank you so much for having me.
I'm so excited to be here.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
So why don't you tell our listeners about It's a
fandom Thing.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
It's a fandom thing. It's a podcast covering like fandom
and pop culture, primarily from the female perspective, but we
have other guests on as well, and we cover the gamut.
We cover movies, television, we covered music as well, book
and then also just like fandom topics, Like we just

(00:57):
did a episode talking about death of the author. So
we do just everything you can imagine on there.

Speaker 1 (01:05):
Yeah, and you guys have also done an Oscar prediction episode.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
Yes, we do that every year. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
I love that. The air other Aaron watched Amelia Perez
and like One and a half Speed because like they
just couldn't deal with it.

Speaker 2 (01:19):
Yes, I was like, oh, that's a good tip. Maybe
if I do it. That's how I watch it.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
Yeah, so awesome, and we will be on it's a
fandom thing later this year, So we are excited about
being on your podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
Yeah, I'm excited to have you on to talk about
pretty and pink, so that'll be fun.

Speaker 1 (01:41):
Yeah, we had a great time talking about that on
our podcast, so uh yeah, but today you are on
our podcast. Today, Aaron has selected the soundtrack to the
nineteen ninety four Oliver Stone film Natural Born Killers. Why
are we talking about Natural Born Killers? Today?

Speaker 2 (01:59):
For me growing up, I was in high school when
this movie came out, and this was like one of
the essential soundtracks for I hung out with all the
weirdos and geeks and the goths and the punks and everything.
So for us, this was like kind of like one
of our soundtracks that spoke to us, especially because Trent

(02:20):
Reznor was so big, and he of course produced it,
and there's a few nine Inch Nails songs on it,
so I think that was a big part of it.
Leonard Cohen was actually really big, I think for my
generation as well, even though you know, of course he
came out way before that, but it still felt like
he had a resurgence in the nineties. Yeah, and so

(02:40):
that's why I wanted to talk about it because I
think and the movie itself is so divisive, and I
have so many thoughts on the movie, but I think
above all, the soundtrack just holds a lot of power
and emotion, and it's so many different genres of music
as well.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
It's a great place to start. It's a Trent Reznor,
who now we know now as a film composer and
the Oscar winning film composer. He in nineteen ninety four,
he was just this angry guy in a band. I
think a lot of us remember Woodstock ninety five, mostly

(03:21):
by like nine inch nails playing in the mud and
just like slipping around stage and just I mean it was.
It was an amazing performance. It's an iconic performance. But
you know, he was not known for, you know, doing
Disney movies and kids' kids animated films like the Teenage

(03:42):
Ninja Turtles.

Speaker 2 (03:43):
Mean man, Yeah, Yeah, he was incredible. He was such
an influential artist though for that time, for all the angst,
all the teenage angst, and you know, pretty pretty Little
Hate Machine is like one of those albums that just
speaks to all of that all of that anger that

(04:03):
you feel inside, and it's like he's able to get
it out in lyrics that you might not be able
to say at that time. So yeah, and he's incredible live.
I don't know either of you have seen the are
incredible live? Yes, yes, I saw them opening for Jane's
Addiction and this was back when. Yeah, I guess Jane's
Addiction isn't good anymore. Cons I heard.

Speaker 3 (04:25):
Carl went a little fair I think recently, but.

Speaker 2 (04:29):
When I saw them, they were fantastic.

Speaker 3 (04:31):
So yeah, that's incredible. Yeah. I think it's uh, there
should be some kind of challenge talk about Natural Born
Killers without saying the term nineties angst, because I feel
like it is the quintessential angst film and Reznor's involvement
and this being his first soundtrack work, the first soundtrack

(04:51):
that he curates for film, I think really centers that
in a very very nineties mood. I had never seen
Natural Born Killers prior to this, and Ryan and I
were talking about how is utes right? We're thirteen, fourteen
years old. This was something that you saw at Blockbuster
or you were like not allowed to rent. It was

(05:12):
kind of forbidden. There was a lot of controversy around it.
It was banned in Ireland. It was, you know, something
that parents were not going to let you see. So
here I am at like a ripe old age seeing
Natural Born Killers for the first time via Amazon Prime.
I'm so sorry that I had to spend money on
Amazon Prime. And my confession is that I could not

(05:36):
finish it.

Speaker 2 (05:37):
Oh wow, so you don't know how it ends.

Speaker 3 (05:40):
This is the This film has the distinction of being
the first thing that I couldn't finish for the podcast.
And it's not necessarily because the content of it is
about serial killers and it's violent, and I've seen a
lot of violent movies. Uh. I just thought every directorial
choice that Oliver Stone makes in this film was disgusting.

(06:01):
And I think it's very nineties too. It felt very like,
I don't know David Carson and like everything that was
like aesthetic at that time and probably very zeitgeisty at
that time, with the flash cuts and the jump cuts
and the projections didn't hold for me.

Speaker 1 (06:16):
Oh, he's never quit the jump cuts.

Speaker 3 (06:18):
He's never quit. No, he would never quit a jump cut.
But I felt like barfing. I felt like barfing, and
I think I jumped midway through. Ryan actually told me like, oh,
I think you jumped at the point that Tarantino jumped,
because Tarantino has also apparently never seen the film all
the way through.

Speaker 2 (06:35):
Yes, yes, yeah, well in the Dutch angles, like so
many Dutch angles, I mean, yeah, and lots of over
indulgence is I think the best word for it.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
I think I read that like a normal film has
like nine hundred like cuts, and like this one had
like three thousand.

Speaker 3 (06:52):
Oh Jesus, yeah, so many. Yeah, it's from school. It's
like I was watching like different you know film school
kids reels back to back, and it was very uncomfortable
and upsetting. So it wasn't just the content, although the
content is also upsetting. It was really just the choices.

(07:17):
But I feel like you can listen to the soundtrack
to Natural Born Killers and you maybe get the film
in the soundtrack more than you do in a lot
of other soundtracks. It's the film like in soundtrack version, right.

Speaker 1 (07:31):
Yeah, without being like a musical yeah kind of yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:34):
Yeah. And I know, like on the original like CD
and stuff when you got the CD when it first
came out. It's that thing that they were always doing
in the nineties where you hear like a clip from
the movie and then it goes into the next song
and then the next song, and I know now like
you cannot go to Spotify and find the soundtrack like
the original. It's like people have put it together with

(07:56):
the songs right, but you can't find the original with
the words like you hear like you didn't see this part,
but when they are in prison and Scagnetti, who is
just I think worse actually than Mickey and Mellory, if
I'm being quite honest. He's creepier the you know, the cop,
the detective, and he goes and he's gonna see Mallory

(08:19):
and he's obsessed with her anyway, And you hear Tommy
Lee Jones character give like a voiceover and that's in
the soundtrack, and so you have all sort of moments
like that on the on the soundtrack that I think
make it where even though see I watched this last
year for my podcast we covered it, and then I
watched it again a couple of days ago, and even

(08:41):
though I hadn't seen this movie in like over a decade,
probably longer than that, I remembered distinctly the soundtrack and
moments from the soundtrack when you would hear pieces from
the film, So it was like I almost didn't have
to watch the film again, although it was an interesting
test to see because like certain things I didn't remember correctly,

(09:05):
but I remembered like everything from the soundtrack, like where
certain songs went, like I knew it hoped. It opened
with Waiting for a Miracle and I knew that it,
you know, then had all the different things with like
the natural on and Killers, with the blood coming down
the windshield and all of that. So but I think
it's all because of the school the soundtrack. It's just

(09:25):
completely And.

Speaker 3 (09:26):
You had said, you know, you saw this in high school.
I imagine with a group of friends in high school.
What was the mood around it at that time? Was
the where the accolades more around like yeah, this soundtrack
is badass and everything that we love or do you
remember what your recollection was of it?

Speaker 2 (09:42):
Yeah, and actually this is not like at the time
it was cool, but now thinking about it as an adult,
this was not cool. One of our teachers took us
to go see this movie.

Speaker 3 (09:55):
Took you to see Natural Born Killers.

Speaker 2 (09:57):
Yes, I'm not kidding, because what pretend like I'm a
cool teacher was it was not appropriate at all. At
the time, of course, we were like this is so cool.
So a bunch of yeah, we're going to.

Speaker 3 (10:11):
Think this is what the nineties was like. But that
light lift of the nineties too, that did not happen
to me. That's wild, Aaron.

Speaker 2 (10:18):
I know, I know. While I went to an alternative
high school that was really arts focused and arts based,
and while it was a great school, some of the
teachers kind of I think took that friendship thing a
little bit too far. And yeah, so we went, but
it was this, It was this experience because people this

(10:40):
was such a controversial movie. I mean so controversial. This
has been blamed for so many true crimes that have
happened since. And people were so angry about this movie.
People were protesting this movie. People did not want they
didn't want us to see this movie, of course, and
so that made us want to see it more. And
I think because of the controversy, honestly, and not just

(11:03):
even the soundtrack, but the controversy, I think that's why
so many of us loved this movie. But I remember
seeing it and this guy who I ended up dating
later after this, who I had a crush on, went
with us, and I remember just he was so disturbed
by this movie and it. This sticks out because I
had such a crush on him, but he also loved

(11:25):
the music, and so I was like, Okay, I'm gonna
love the music even more than I already do because
you know that whole thing. But yeah, it was. It
was an event. It was something that a lot of
people talked about, like I kind of I know, like
before we started recording, Ryan, you were talking about train Spotting,
and I think this is very similar in that respect

(11:47):
as far as like how impactful it was with the
score and with the controversy. I mean, Trainspotting, the controversy
is not the same kind of thing around it, but
it was. It had the same feel to it, even
had a little bit of the gen X like angst,
like oh my gosh, the how driven we are the

(12:09):
media and we're controlled by the media, and we're controlled
by the news, and we're controlled by the television. And
you know, if you were to make this today, it
would be social media. You know, it would be like
Twitter and Instagram and all of that is how you
would kind of reflect this. So it was I don't
think many people realize that, but this was a huge,
huge deal, and yeah, it was. It was a pretty

(12:32):
controversial time. But yeah, I still will never get over
the fact that my teacher took us to this.

Speaker 3 (12:37):
That is really like the insane reveal of this podcast
what is your high school keeper's day?

Speaker 2 (12:43):
I do you remember, Angie?

Speaker 3 (12:45):
Angie, you're listening to this, We're going to need an explanation.
We're need to follow up with Angie.

Speaker 1 (12:53):
But let's not dox Angie.

Speaker 2 (12:55):
Yeah, let's not.

Speaker 3 (12:57):
It's just like email us, Anglie if you're out there
and you know no last name.

Speaker 2 (13:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (13:03):
It's interesting that you say that, because I feel like
in nineteen ninety four, this is coming off the heels
of things like the OJ trial of you know, a
lot of media moments that are at that time very
new and a very new way of sensationalizing crime and murder.
And so I feel like the defenders of this film

(13:24):
are very much like, no, you just don't understand that.
It's you know, it's it's it's kind of against that
it's a commentary on that I didn't finish it. So
maybe maybe I'm the wrong person to ask, but I
feel like that's the that's the angle. But it's interesting
to see the choices that were that were made in

(13:45):
this film especially from apparently what Tarantino's original intentions and
script were.

Speaker 1 (13:52):
Yeah, so Tarantino has a story by credit because he
kind of disowned the script. He sold it to Warner
Brothers fri leave ten thousand dollars so he could make
other things. He tried to make some version of this,
but it just didn't work out because he didn't have
the money to fulfill his vision. He has said things

(14:12):
like smith Stone's biggest problem is that his obvious is
that his obviousness cancels out his energy, and his energy
pumps up his obviousness. And he's also just said I
hate that fucking movie. So he pulled up an interview
with him where they asked him about National Born Killers.

(14:35):
Have you ever tried to watch?

Speaker 3 (14:36):
So?

Speaker 1 (14:37):
I tried to watch it once in the theater and
I had to walk out of it. It is the
only time I've ever walked out of a movie. And
he walked out during the I Love Mallory sitcom scene,
so clearly that was not his vision. He said anything
else that's funny in that movie is probably from his
script and left it at that.

Speaker 3 (14:55):
That's tarenteed. I think I'm kind of seeing no one
in a way, because it's like to loathe to like
agree with Quentin Tarantino on certain things. But apparently his
original script was more about the reporters, and Robert Downey
Junior's character less focused on the killers, and I think

(15:15):
his argument was that translation was not right. What is interesting, though,
is that this soundtrack does feature a lot of this
very like twenty surf and things that feel a little
bit more like country influenced. The diner scene in the beginning,
which I did see, also feels like very Tarantino. So
there are things that are similar, you know, there are

(15:36):
things that like echo his later use of Dick Dale's
miserlu and things that feel tarantino esque, but they feel
more Tarantino asque, I think on the soundtrack than they
do in the film.

Speaker 1 (15:47):
Yeah, I believe the screenplay actually had song choices in
the scene descriptions, because that does seem like a very
Tarantino thing to do. Absolutely, and he also to add
to you know, the fact that it can be more
about the reporter. It's also I also found that he
wanted it to be a film within a film, so

(16:09):
he imagined it as being written by Trumans's Clarence Warley.

Speaker 2 (16:16):
Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, I don't know if I read
that part, because I read so much about how angry
he is about this, and I understand if if I
had written something and Nate took it and paid me
nothing and then turned it into something which wasn't recognizable,
I would be I'd be pissed too. Sorry. She normally

(16:36):
doesn't bark constantly, and of.

Speaker 1 (16:38):
Course Tarantino says him and Stone are actually good now.

Speaker 2 (16:41):
But okay, but I would be angry too. But I
think it's just the fact that I don't know. I
think Tarantino sometimes doesn't realize that he actually does the
same exact stuff that he's criticizing Oliver Stone for with
the self like I don't know the but I don't know.
I mean, Oliver Stone is problematic, very problematic, But so

(17:07):
is Quentin Tarantino. I mean, they both are very full
of themselves. I think, honestly, they both are very they
hit the nail over the head kind of thing. So yeah,
and I apologize for the dog. She's normally like not bark,
does not bark this much. But I think it's because
somebody's at the door, and so we've both been there

(17:30):
expect there's all mute. While I'm not talking.

Speaker 1 (17:33):
Back to Trent Reznor, who is the producer for the soundtrack,
He's not just you know, contributing a couple nine inch
nail signs. It's kind of curating this whole thing. He
is so perfect for this specific movie because he is
also obsessed with serial killers. Famously, the studio that he

(17:54):
built for the nine inch Nails EP broken and for
the Downward Spiral that is at one zero zero five
zero Clo Drive in Los Angeles, California, aka the site
of the murder of actress Sharon Tate. He built the
studio there, So you know, it kind of makes sense
that you would have a guy who is obsessed with

(18:18):
serial killers soundtracking a movie called natural Born Killers.

Speaker 3 (18:23):
Right. It is very Trent, and it's specifically very Trent
nineteen ninety four. I also read that Trent watched this movie,
the final cut of this movie, fifty times in order
to get the mood right, in order to curate this
in a way that echoed the sort of channel flipping
that you get in the movie, this sort of frenetic pacing,

(18:43):
this psychotic editing style, the way that the different clips
and the song sort of flow into one another. Watching
this movie fifty times feels unfathomable to me. But if
there's somebody that could do it, it would be Trent
Reznor nineteen ninety four, who I think has expressed some
sort of weirdness and regret around the whole sharing Tate

(19:03):
obsession and how he kind of like regrets being in
that headspace. But again, it's nineteen ninety four. This is
like the edgiest thing that you can be, right, It's
very of its time, and the way that he curates
this soundtrack is he does a better, in my mind,
I think, a more admirable job with the soundtrack than
maybe the movie does with its source material. It is

(19:26):
better soundtracked than it is directed. It is completely a
standalone item, this soundtrack that you can listen to and
be very entertained by.

Speaker 2 (19:36):
I don't think there's like a when I was rewatching
it two days ago, I don't think there's like really
a moment of complete silence in this movie. There just isn't.
There's like always. It reminds me very much of like,
I don't know what, because they're totally different things, but
this just hit me of like the WB shows like

(19:56):
like One Tree Hill or something like that, where it
was like never a moment without music, and that's the
way this is. And I think it's because the music
is overcompensating for the fact that you know, there's not
really much here. Yes, they're trying to say something, they're
trying to make a point, and I understand the point
because you're hit over the head with it over and

(20:17):
over again.

Speaker 3 (20:18):
Yes, so it's.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
Hard not to get the point. But you have to
be a little bit more subtle, I think for this
to have worked better. And there are some things that
bother me with the whole Mickey and Mallory relationship and storyline,
but I think both Juliet Lewis and Woody Harrelson are
fantastic though, oh wonderfully they're so good, wonderfully cast, so good,

(20:43):
what a great cast, I mean, what a great cast
at like the peak of their power as well, And
I think that's also what's frustrating about it for me,
is that you wish what they were doing was in
line with how much they're capable of as actors.

Speaker 3 (20:57):
Because they really do inhabit these roles and they're so compelling.
Juliet Lewis is completely captivating in this film, and I
feel like maybe if it was her film or her
vehicle somehow, maybe I would have hung in there. But yeah,
let's talk a little bit about Leonard Cohen. You mentioned
Leonard Cohen, Aaron, and what is your relationship to Leonard

(21:19):
Cohen as an artists? He's one of my faves Canadian
icon We love Leonard.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
Yeah, I was listening to Leonard Cohen in like middle
school as well, and then I remember the nineteen ninety
movie Pump Up the Volume, which of course famously opens
with the Leonard Cohen song as well, and that talk
about a classic soundtrack as well, and that I think
was also one of my exposures to Leonard Cohen, was

(21:45):
the movie Pump Up the Buying, because I was obsessed,
like many people were my age, with Christian Slater, and
so I saw that movie of course right away, which
I think that movie holds up extremely well. Yeah, and
that kind of introduced me to it, to Leonard Cohen.
But also I grew up with parents that loved music
and exposed me to all kinds of music, including Leonard Cohen,

(22:08):
and Leonard Cohen was one that my dad really loved
and my dad had like a wall, Like his walls
in his bedroom were just you know, just ceiling. I
mean Florida's ceiling of like records and tapes and CDs
and reel to reels and of every genre of music
you could imagine. So I already knew who Leonard Cohen was,

(22:31):
but I think really his poetry, and I loved poetry.
I wrote. Poetry was so beautiful and kind of just
was like touching, like the song Anthem that's also it's
not credited on the soundtrack, Like when you look up
the soundtrack, you don't see that, but it's in the movie.

Speaker 1 (22:52):
You do.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
Hear it in Natural and Killers and that, like that song,
and you know, just like there's so much hope and loneliness,
but there's also this hope to everything. And his voice
is like, uh, he was just amazing, Like his voice
is like this soothing, warm blanket in a way that

(23:14):
also just makes you think, you know, he's just beautiful,
Like it's just lyrics are so beautiful and so full
of heart and soul, and I just he was just
such an incredible, incredible artist. And I really fell in
love with him in middle school and then high school
and it was mainly because not just my parents, but
because movies introducing me to him.

Speaker 3 (23:34):
Yeah, that's one of the things that I love most
about doing this podcast is talking to people about how
they found their favorite artists, because so often we find
that it is through his soundtrack. It is through something
commercial that finds you at a really pivotal time in
your youth. Pump up the volume, of course, starts with
Leonard Cohen's song Everybody Knows, And I'm sure that your
experience is similar to a lot of people that same timeframe,

(23:57):
right where it just catches, you know, somebody exists, but
there's something that catches and that gets you interested. In
natural Born Killers. There are three Letard Cohen songs. They're
sort of like this triptych in the film you mentioned Anthem.
There's also The Future and Waiting for a Miracle for

(24:17):
the Miracle, which opens the film. They're all pulled from
his nineteen ninety two album The Future. I feel like
some of his later work is it does have this
kind of like almost disquieting effect because his voice is craggier,
you know, it's a little bit more detached and still
the same like poetic insights, but it has a little

(24:40):
bit of like a menacing feel that I feel it
works in the context of the film lyrically. I think
there are a lot of things in it too that
are very much turn of phrases that are about like
regrets and decay and morality. Like it all works really
well for I think the context of this film. Letter
co And is probably better known for Howelujah. There's a

(25:04):
really great line from an AV Club article about natural
boring care of Killers where they note that before Hallelujah
became the go to song for sad ogres and superheroes,
fucking to court your first to Shrek and The Watchman,
his disenfranchisement was was basically used in pumped up the

(25:25):
volume and then and then this.

Speaker 1 (25:27):
Yes, and not the Watchman that Trent Reznor scored for HBO.
But we're talking about the Zack Snyder Watchman.

Speaker 3 (25:34):
Let's not get into it. The Zach Snyder where like
they're literally in whatever that weird spaceship thing. Yeah, like
I watched that in the theater.

Speaker 2 (25:44):
And I did too.

Speaker 1 (25:46):
I didn't walk out of that one.

Speaker 3 (25:47):
Flapped so hard like out loud.

Speaker 1 (25:50):
Yeah it was. It was not supposed to be funny,
but a lot of people left.

Speaker 3 (25:54):
No inappropriate application of Leonard Cohen, whereas in not Killers,
I feel like, yes, appropriate obligation.

Speaker 1 (26:04):
Yeah, and I feel natural like natural born killers. Around
the same time as Jeff Buckley's cover of Hallelujah, which
a lot of people kind of feel is the original version,
like it's become such an iconic version where some people
don't realize it's a cover.

Speaker 2 (26:19):
Yeah, that's very true. I mean it's a great cover,
but I think that's it's one of those where it
almost took over the original, which can happen, and I
think also for different generations that's probably what it is.

Speaker 1 (26:32):
So Yeah, to our big Trent Reznor fan friend, Brandis,
she is very salty when people don't realize that Johnny
cash is heard is actually a Trent Resnor song.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
Oh yeah. That that blows my mind that people don't
realize that. I know, like people think of that as
the better version, and I love that version, but it
kind of makes me sad that they don't realize because
I love Trent Reznor is like one of my favorites.
Talked about him a couple of years ago on my podcast,
and he's such an interesting person to watch interviews of if.

(27:08):
I don't know if you've ever seen interviews with Trent Resnor,
but he is. He's so quiet and reserved and so
smart and very thoughtful, especially as he's gotten older, and
his work scoring films, scoring movies, his work with Atticus
Ross is just amazing. Their film scores are incredible.

Speaker 3 (27:28):
Absolutely, how dare they be snubbed for challengers? Know? How
dare the Academy? How very dare they?

Speaker 1 (27:35):
I think he got so mad that he decided to
do another nine Inch Nails tour in the world.

Speaker 3 (27:40):
They are touring, That's true, they are. They are touring
the Academy.

Speaker 1 (27:45):
Let's get on the road bye.

Speaker 3 (27:48):
There are some great, like really iconic nine inch Nail
songs on the soundtrack as well. And I want to say,
and maybe I got this wrong, someone correct me, but
was Burne unreleased until it was released on the soundtrack?

Speaker 1 (27:59):
Now Burne was, and for the movie.

Speaker 3 (28:01):
It was written for the movie, Okay.

Speaker 1 (28:03):
And that is a banger of a song.

Speaker 3 (28:04):
It's such a great right, exactly, it's such a great song.

Speaker 1 (28:08):
I just want to say that every nine Inch Nails
like ninety soundtrack song is amazing, like the perfect drug
for lost Highway. Yeah, the Joy Division cover of Lost
Souls for the Crow, like totally, like he only brought
like his a game for soundtracks.

Speaker 3 (28:22):
You really did, And I think he did Lost Highway
right after he did this, so this is sort of
like his what a great opener into soundtrack. By the way,
I feel like, no matter what you say, it's really
not enough praise that Trent Restnor is still underrated in
this game.

Speaker 1 (28:40):
Also, if you were going to watch a movie that
had nine inch nails on the soundtrack, it also automatically
meant like don't watch with your parents.

Speaker 3 (28:47):
So true, it's very true, anonymous, it synonymous with like no,
it's not like a parental advisory sticker.

Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yes you watch you watch this out of sleepover with
your friends after your parents go to sleep, exactly the mood.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
Yeah, and in seven the beginning and seven right yeah, yeah,
everything that he did and even when even with the
scores that he's done, Like I don't know if you've
seen the movie Bones and All, which is a very
divisive film. I actually love that movie. It's about cannibals,
but it's with Timothy Challomaye he's a cannibal. I don't

(29:25):
know if you've seen this, but.

Speaker 3 (29:27):
I'm sort of familiar with it through the you know,
club Challome.

Speaker 2 (29:32):
Yeah, it came out. It was Luca Cuadalini who also
did Challengers, and then of course did the movie Queer
that came out this year or last year, excuse me.
And that is such a great soundtrack because our score
because of what the film is. The film is actually
a love story, but it is a cannibal love story.

(29:54):
It's a very interesting movie. So someday I'm gonna have
to talk about that movie. But but he does, he
sets a movie. He knows how to do that. Like
he I think, really loves film. And you can tell
in any work that he does and any you know,
just regular songs that he that ninety snails that they do,
you can also see it in there, the love of

(30:15):
film and the love of visual the visual medium.

Speaker 3 (30:19):
Yeah. And I feel like they've had such a wonderful
evolution and growth as musicians. That refusal to be in
the same place when they could have rested on it
forever like some of their peers from the nineties. The
refusal to do that, I think is what makes them
and Trent so interesting as an artist. I never get

(30:41):
to talk about Disney Pixar's soul. I'll never get to
talk about that on the show, right, but that score
is so gorgeous. It's so beautiful, and it's something that
you would never imagine to come out of them, but
it does. So. Yeah, not enough praise for Resnor, and
it is cool to see his sort of inception story,

(31:01):
origin story through this film.

Speaker 1 (31:04):
And in the nineties he was doing music videos with
Mark Romanic and David Fincher, people who went on to
do feature films, and obviously he has a long running
relationship with Fincher doing a lot of his film scores
and at least as of you know, twenty ten.

Speaker 3 (31:22):
Yeah, things that were like very commercial at the time
that now have become almost mainstays or become extremely respected.
He was definitely there at the forefront.

Speaker 2 (31:35):
There's a great that I can't remember the name of it.
Now it's on Netflix and you can watch it. It's
like artists talking about songs. And he talked about Hurt.
Thank you, Yes, did you watch one when he talks
about Hurt.

Speaker 1 (31:48):
I've not seen that episode, but it's so good.

Speaker 2 (31:52):
It's so so good. I don't think he really realizes
how talented he is and how good he is and
how much of an impact he has had. I don't
think he gives himself enough credit. And so it's interesting
watching him talk about about that song, and and he
of horse mentions Johnny Cash and stuff in there too.

Speaker 1 (32:11):
Oh so, speaking of Johnny Cash. In the same interview
with Tarantino, it's maybe like the same year, maybe the
year after the movie came out. He sees Johnny Cash.
Johnny Cash comes out of this elevator. Obviously, he's like,
oh my gosh, you're Johnny Cash and Johnny Cash because
you're Quentin Tarantino, right, and he goes, oh my gosh,
Johnny Cash knows who I am. He's like, uh, natural

(32:34):
Born Killers. And Tarantino's like, ah fuck, oh yeah, what
where did you say that was? It had to have
been like ninety five.

Speaker 3 (32:45):
Oh man, So it would have been like kind of
the only thing Tarantino was known for at that point.
Maybe I was debating it in my mind. Reservoir Dogs.

Speaker 1 (32:54):
He would have done Reservoir Dogs and pulp fiction may
have just come out where.

Speaker 2 (32:58):
Yeah, in True Romance was before that, wasn't it, because
he did the screenplay for that one.

Speaker 1 (33:05):
Yeah, But I don't think people like knew it was like, oh,
it's Tarantino, the screenplay writer. Yeah, and he was like,
oh yeah, me and June love National Killers.

Speaker 2 (33:15):
That's just so interesting to think about Johnny Cash and
watching this.

Speaker 3 (33:20):
Really did a lot of like speed, and I can
kind of see him being like, I remember that. Yeah,
that is how it happens.

Speaker 1 (33:29):
I've done mushrooms in the desert too.

Speaker 3 (33:31):
Yeah. I was like, I've also been on a shrewd
trip in the desert Americans.

Speaker 2 (33:37):
That's true.

Speaker 1 (33:38):
So Robert Downey Junior has an Australian accent in this film,
and an accent that he would not bring back until
Tropic Thunder is car Glazarus.

Speaker 3 (33:49):
I love it all right. I love that connection.

Speaker 1 (33:55):
I mean I've come up with weird connections sometimes.

Speaker 3 (33:58):
I love that line.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
Robert Junny Jr. Went to work like he shadowed like
some Australian kind of news reporter that kind of that
did similar sort of work, you know, And then that's
why he was like, hey, Oliver, can I do an
Australian accent? I've been following this Australian guy around And
that's how that happened.

Speaker 2 (34:23):
Yeah, Oliver Starns.

Speaker 3 (34:25):
Is that sure that makes sense for my like Americana
sort of movie. Yeah, they no, what fuck? Matt go ahead?

Speaker 1 (34:33):
Well, and he let Rodney Dangerfield improve a lot of
his lines.

Speaker 2 (34:39):
Yeah. And Rodney Dangerfield was very like, he didn't understand
why Oliver Stone would make that scene in talking about
somebody who is abusing their children sexually abusing and make
it into a sitcom. And he was very uncomfortable with that.
He was actually really uncomfortable with And that's why I

(35:01):
think it's interesting having him improv all the lines, because
I don't know if that helped him with him being intremfortable,
because he went and he's like, so, oh my gosh,
so gross.

Speaker 3 (35:10):
It is so great, the food that is constantly on
the edge of his lip, and just the grotesque nature
of the entire thing. Like I get it right, It's
like you said, Aaron, you know, it's like, we get it.
And and this this bit with the sitcom goes on
for what feels like forever, and the fact that Rodney

(35:31):
Dangerfield is in it and his only dramatic role apparently
I can see why he didn't want to go back
to dramatic rolls after this he's in it. The neighbor
from Small Wonder is in it. If anybody remembers that,
oh my god, literally from sitcoms, so they take this
literal sitcom you know, mom character like, oh what the
hell's a nice Midwestern accent and she's really bad. I'm sorry,

(35:56):
never held a catsu role in my life. It's very disturbing.
It's very upsetting. I almost bailed out after that.

Speaker 1 (36:04):
It's no WandaVision.

Speaker 3 (36:05):
It's bad.

Speaker 2 (36:08):
Yeah, it's very disturbing. Yeah, that that's one of the hardest.
And it's also gross when wood He Harrelson's character Mickey,
when he walks in and he's carrying that big thing
of meat and the meat just keeps falling out of
the bag on the floor. It's that's even gross to me,
but much so much.

Speaker 1 (36:29):
I love Oliver Stone's reaction to like someone asked him, like, oh,
Woody Harrelson, Like he was mostly a comedic actor at
this point. You know, it's basically white men can't jump
and cheers, you know, uh, you know, it's kind of
a wrist to cast him. And he was like, I
don't know, he seemed pretty white trash.

Speaker 2 (36:49):
Yeah, And I think he also said, like he looks
like a murderer, Like he's got a murderous something killer
vibe to him. Look to him.

Speaker 3 (36:57):
Well, even about having this movie and my right, like,
I've spent a lot of time being uncomfortable with Woody Harrelson.
He makes me uncomfortable, I think strictly on the basis
of his character in this movie and with like the
shaved head.

Speaker 1 (37:10):
And shit, like he's in the Red Eyes.

Speaker 3 (37:14):
He's yeah, he's scary.

Speaker 2 (37:17):
Yeah, he is scary. He is pretty scary in this
and it's pretty I'm wondering, people who just watch this,
what age do you think Mallory is? Because I think
there's some underage dynamics going on here with Mickey and Mallory.

Speaker 3 (37:36):
I don't know, Well, it seems like he picked her
up outside the high.

Speaker 2 (37:39):
School exactly exactly, and they don't.

Speaker 3 (37:43):
I don't think they do define her age, but you're
I think she's they're definitely playing her up as they're
playing up that like jailbaiting goal. I feel a little Yeah,
it's not it's uncomfortable, but it's like there's so many
uncomfortable things that why not why shouldn't you be like

(38:03):
sixteen seventeen.

Speaker 1 (38:06):
Yeah, sure, yeah, they really flood the zone with like
a grossness, where like, eh, well I just let that
one slide, right.

Speaker 3 (38:15):
I think flood the zone with grossness is the perfect
description of what this movie does to your psyche. I
do feel like though, again to revisit how I think
the soundtrack has a life outside of the movie. The
soundtrack was very popular. It did go certified gold, sold
five hundred thousand copies. So I think there's relevance in

(38:40):
the soundtrack alone, maybe because arguably, you tell me what
you think, not everybody saw this. So maybe if you
were like fifteen, you were into this music, but nobody
was gonna let you see this film.

Speaker 2 (38:53):
Yeah, I think that's accurate. Yeah, I think a lot
of people. I think a lot of people were more
into the sound than they were the movie. They would
say they were into the movie, but it was more
the soundtrack that they were into. Yeah, And I mean
it also like other artists like Cowboy Junkies and Jane's
Addiction and even Bob Dylan and you know all these

(39:15):
other artists on there. And so I think it was
the soundtrack above the movie for sure.

Speaker 3 (39:22):
For sure that Cowboy Junkies cover of Sweet Jane by
the Velvet Underground. It was very popular. It was I'm
sure that was college radios go to for for quite
a while. I remember hearing it incessantly, so I know
that that took on a life of his own.

Speaker 1 (39:43):
Yeah, and I remember listening to it on the radio.
And I think at some point, like they started splicing
in dialogue from the movie.

Speaker 2 (39:51):
Interesting, Yeah, that doesn't surprise me. I don't remember that,
but that doesn't surprise me. So yeah, I think they
did on the soundtrack.

Speaker 1 (40:03):
But yeah, maybe they're playing Maybe they were first given
the single version and then because it was so beloved
that they're like, oh, well, let's just play the soundtrack
version with the dialogue from the movie, since everyone seems
to love the movie. Yeah, if I'm not misremembering our
previous guest friend of the show, Jim, I believe his
cousin is in the Cowboy Junkies, or at least is

(40:24):
in the touring band.

Speaker 2 (40:25):
Oh that's cool.

Speaker 3 (40:28):
Probbe like one degree from the Cowboys.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
I just wanted to bring that up. I'm sure Jim
listens to the show. He probably will chime in. But Jim,
but yeah, I mean I think that is a way
for a lot of younger people to like get exposed
to the Velvet Underground. And to me, it's like other

(40:52):
than the original, it's the only other version of that
song that needs to exist.

Speaker 3 (40:57):
Yeah, some covers are like that. I hurt. I think
is another one, right, which we've already talked about. A
cover song is a very it's a very hard button
to button that song buttons it.

Speaker 2 (41:09):
Yeah, and I think it became more popular than the
Velvet Underground one, honestly.

Speaker 3 (41:14):
Oh, absolutely, without a doubt.

Speaker 2 (41:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:17):
Yeah, I remember the music video for it. I remember
listening to it on you know, mainstream alternative radio. It was,
it was everywhere, And for some reason, I thought that
the soundtrack was even bigger. I mean, five hundred thousand
is obviously still a lot of sales, but I just
I just thought everybody had this soundtrack, or at least

(41:38):
everyone had a tape of it from their friend.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
Yes, I think I think that's probably what it was.

Speaker 3 (41:43):
Yeah, Yeah, maybe people were taping it, you know, off
the radio when you used to do such things.

Speaker 2 (41:48):
Yeap, or taping it off of somebody else's tape when
you had the two tape.

Speaker 3 (41:52):
Decks Oh, yeah, the few tape bags.

Speaker 2 (41:54):
You've record off of the other one. Yeah, they were
probably doing that too, I would guess, yeah. And then
there's other stuff on here like L seven shit list.
I think I love that song. That song is so
much fun to sing at the top of your lungs
because you can just get a lot of anger frustration out,

(42:18):
and I think for women and for young girls and stuff,
it was also very empowering. Hearing women singing that song
was empowering as well.

Speaker 3 (42:31):
That song was a ripper, And the beginning scene in
the diner when that plays is a pretty cool scene
and it does read very Tarantino ask to me. There
is a part of the song where I think she
yell's like you're on my shit list, and then Juliet
Lewis ays the same thing as part of the dialogue
in the movie, which is sort of corny but also

(42:51):
proof that I think you can listen to this soundtrack
and you kind of get the gist of the film.
It's maybe the better option for certain people. But yeah,
that's a great song. That's a ripper, yea.

Speaker 2 (43:05):
And I think that encapsulates the character of Mallory honestly. Yeah,
because she's getting so much revenge for how horrible she
was treated in the abuse she which is not an
excuse for what she did at all. But I think
that's a lot of what her trajectory is as a

(43:25):
character is, and you see it with her change in
her hair and the clothes she wears, is that she
is going from that feeling trapped and feeling abused and controlled,
and then now she's found someone that's helping her realize
how to get out of that. And so she has
all these people on her shit list and she just

(43:46):
adds a new ones, like when they get I don't
know if you saw this scene, but when they get
married on the bridge and that truck fastest all those
guys footing and hollering, and Micky's just like, we aren't
killing anybody on our wedding day.

Speaker 3 (44:00):
Yeah, And so there are aspects of it that like
are I was finding kind of funny. And then by
the time they got to the scene where you know,
the Native American guy gets waxed, and there are all
of these like projections because they're both tripping and everybody's
dying and there's been a rape scene, and it's just
it was like, no I can't. And it wasn't so
much the content. It was more just these directorial choices

(44:22):
are like oppressive, They're bad.

Speaker 2 (44:25):
Yeah, I agree, couldn't do it.

Speaker 3 (44:27):
I feel like I'm just venting now. Juliet Lewis is
such a great presence though, and I was very into
her character. She has a band. She has a band,
Juliette and the Licks, which makes sense. She has that
like aggressive front woman energy all all the way, boots down.

Speaker 2 (44:45):
Yes, I agree, I agree she's and in which you
wouldn't have seen this. But when they're in prison, which
is funny because I didn't remember that the prison stuff
was such a huge part of this movie. My memory
always was that the prison stuff was like ten minutes.
It's half of the movie is in the prison, and yeah,
it's And I totally forgot that it was that big

(45:05):
of a part. And when she is when Tom Seizemore's
character Scagnetti, when he goes in there to visit with her,
and he's so that guy is so creepy, right I
think he probably was. Yeah, he's one of those. Well
she breaks his nose as Mallory does. Well, she actually

(45:28):
did break his nose, like when they did that. She
accidentally went she was in the scene. She really did
break his nose, So that's real. Yeah, wow wow.

Speaker 1 (45:38):
Yeah I heard. Also, the prisoners are also for the
most part, real inmates, and they gave him like rubber
weapons and then but they couldn't finish filming with the
inmates because they were like on lockdown at some point
because it was like three weeks of shooting, and so
they had to get in some extras. But you know,

(45:59):
another interesting choice by Oliver. Let's just have real inmates
in here.

Speaker 2 (46:04):
Yeah, it fits Oliver Stone.

Speaker 1 (46:07):
So I mean, it's it's hard to be like, can
you can you move these criminals so we can shoot
this movie? La just put them all in solitaire?

Speaker 2 (46:19):
Yeah, oh gosh, minute be terrible. Yeah, it's interesting that
you didn't because the future because you didn't did you
read up what happens at the end of this movie?

Speaker 3 (46:35):
So I feel so bad inviting you on this podcast, Aaron,
and you're so lovely, And here I am with zero
preparation about the back half of the movie that we're
discussing because I was literally so out. I don't think
I've ever been so out. And you mentioned Trainspotting earlier.
Trainspoting is one of my favorite films. I've seen every
Tarantino I'm not, you know, really upset by gore and violence.

(46:59):
It was really I could not fathom why anything was happening,
and I didn't want to know. I almost didn't want
to know. And I'm like, I feel so bad, Ryan,
I'm confessing this to Ryan. I'm like, I feel bad.
I'm sorry, I couldn't do it. I'm just gonna have
to talk about the music. But now I want to
know what happened in the prison. So they.

Speaker 2 (47:20):
So Robert Jenny Junior's character goes in. They're just gonna
and interviews Mickey and Mickey. And while this is all happening,
like the prisoners have been riled up and because of
the fact that Mickey and Mallory are there, and so
a riot starts to happen. A riot happens, and then
Mickey takes advantage of this. He tells a joke too,

(47:42):
with all the prison guards and then also the people
shooting the you know, the footage is basically to me,
it was like a current affair and like inside Edition
all those ones back then, and he's telling a joke
and then he distracts someone by throwing a donut at
one of the prisons guards, and then he takes a
gun and starts killing the prison guards. He takes Robert

(48:04):
Downey Junior's character hostage another person, hostage a couple of people,
and they go through the prison and then Robert Downey
Junior's character kills somebody and then he's like, oh, yeah,
I'm all doing this. He was so sleazy and you know,
and Mickey's like, no, I don't want you to kill
anybody else or something like that. And then they get
out of the prison, get Mallory, they break out, and

(48:25):
then they break out and then in the end they
end up shooting on camera Wayne, yeah, the you know,
Robert Downey Junior character. And then in the end, because
Mallory's talking about well, I'm just thinking, you know, I
really want to have children now, I really want to
be a mom. And so in the end with the
future playing, they are driving around in win Obago with

(48:47):
two kids and she's pregnant. I think it's two kids,
and then she's pregnant with the third one or something that. Yeah,
that's how it ends. Your face are not.

Speaker 1 (49:03):
It's a happy ending for two people who don't deserve
a happy ending exactly.

Speaker 3 (49:09):
So upsetting.

Speaker 2 (49:11):
Yeah, so you've got to think, man, when those kids
grow up, like if they don't like someone they're dating or.

Speaker 3 (49:19):
Well, it's just you know, it's I know, whatever, it's fantasy.
But it's just like that whole cycle of violence. God damn,
what a horrible that.

Speaker 1 (49:29):
We're done with that. Now we're just gonna have a family.

Speaker 2 (49:32):
Yeah, I know, it's so, I know, it's bizarre. It's
just like, yep, just happy and pregnant and driving around
in their window bago. Yeah, yep. But I think it's
perfect to use the future over that, honestly, because they
also it also cuts through with it with the credits

(49:55):
also like scenes from other movies and then previous scenes
in the movie, so it's not just the Winnebago that
you're seeing, but you're seeing other things, and it's kind
of like, look at a horrible and dark the future is.
I mean, that's really what I think Oliver Stone is
trying to say, and hit you over the head with it,
of course.

Speaker 3 (50:14):
Yeah for sure, like that, yeah for sure. And you know,
I think part of the reason why this movie maybe
doesn't hit the same way is it dead then or
isn't quite as shocking, is because we just live with
these media realities now, this you know, overexposure of everything
and you know whatever true crime podcasts. Apologies to our

(50:37):
true crime podcasters, but it's it's like, we just live
with the stuff now, So it feels like making a
message out of it watching it today is so weird.

Speaker 2 (50:48):
Yeah, because it's a very disturbing movie and it's not
it's kind of uncomfortable, Like a lot of it is uncomfortable.
But even though it's violent, it's like not as gory
or violent as say, other things that have come since
or even before it. To be frank, I think it's
just one of those that because the subject matter and
because it's Oliver Stone, and because all the hype around

(51:11):
it that people made it out to be more than
it really is. Even the director's cut, which is just
two additional minutes, really doesn't. It's more like there's more
to like an assault scene also, which I'm like, oh yay,
we get to see more of It's like, why do
we want to see more of this? Uh, Well, it's

(51:33):
Oliver Stone. So I really think that's kind of par
for the course there. But I think it's just the
subject matter in the way it's handled can be even
more disturbing than some movies that are ten times more
violent than this one.

Speaker 1 (51:47):
So yeah, yeah, I think in the nineties there were
definitely directors who liked everything to kind of look gross,
Like Samuel Bayer, the musical director did like Smells Teen
Spirit and the video for like Zombie by the Cranberries,
Like his videos just kind of look grotesque. It's like,

(52:07):
is this all you do? And I get it, it's
like nineties rock music and like you want to be
like gritty and edgy, but it's just like everything it's
just like why are you lighting everything so gross? And
I feel like Oliver Stone is kind of like that too,
like this didn't have to be this gross, Oliver He's
you know, like like that doesn't make it a jeer?

Speaker 3 (52:31):
Yeah, right, And not not to compare it to Transpoting,
I think I think they're different movies with similar things
going on, Like you said, similar sort of gen x
whatever rallying cries that are sort of baked into them.
But at least with Transpotting, you do get, you know,
in between a lot of really horrible things happening and
you and McGregor's swimming through a you know, shit fielled

(52:52):
toilet and a baby dying of neglect. You get moments
of quiet, like it has pauses, it feels there's some
breathing room between these things, and there is none of
that in this movie, at least from the fifty percent
that I watch.

Speaker 2 (53:12):
No, it's just like how you never there's never a
silent moment and you're always hearing music. There's never a
quiet moment in this movie. Really. I mean, I think
they attempt it when they get married, but even that
is like then they have the animation of their blood
inner mingling and two serpents coming together.

Speaker 3 (53:34):
Did we just get like the shortest animated sequence ever
put to film? Like what the hell was that? And
the whole movie you just had me like what the hell?

Speaker 1 (53:42):
Just it reminds me of a fight club where you know,
Tyler Jurtons like, oh yeah, sometimes it's plice in like
pieces of porn and like such a short like second
that like you're not sure if you actually saw that
or not, but all of our stone's let's do that
for the whole movie, but make sure that you actually

(54:03):
saw it.

Speaker 2 (54:04):
Yes, and it is constant where it becomes tiring, it
becomes kind of that's why you want to just focus
on the music because everything else is exhausting, like putting
in the the Polar Bears and the Coke ad and stuff,
and Coke got so mad. Oh my gosh. They were
so mad because they didn't realize what the film was
until later. And then they're like, oh my gosh.

Speaker 3 (54:26):
The advertiser and me that licensed stuff because that's what
I do for my day job. I'm like, did this
change like a bunch of shit in the industry, because
how did they not know until they saw the movie?
Who talked to them about that? Even the title was like, oh,
you've a title of the film as natural Born Pillars,
would you like to lonas your Coco Cola?

Speaker 1 (54:44):
Maybe they sold it as hey, can we use the
Polar Bear commercial and an Oscar winning director's movie and
they're like, oh, yeah.

Speaker 3 (54:52):
True, that's probably. Maybe they were like Oliver Stone is
attached and uh, you're gonna want the Bears and that's.

Speaker 1 (54:59):
Going to be.

Speaker 2 (55:02):
That's probably how they sold it.

Speaker 3 (55:04):
Probably the Trojan horsed it. Yeah, the Trojan Horse, those
poor bears.

Speaker 2 (55:09):
Yeah, because because you're not gonna see Natural wor and
Killers and think, oh, this must be like a Disney
movie or something like that, or is this about killer
whales or.

Speaker 3 (55:22):
Is it free will Oh, okay, that makes sense. Yeah,
it's there's so many things that are incomprehensible and strange
about this movie and dnse about this movie. The soundtrack
is also quite long, and I'm sure if you had
all the songs included, it would be that much longer.
But you know, a musical experience I feel like works

(55:44):
differently than that then the film experience does. So I'm
okay with that. That feels just like you're expanding a
thought musically, and that that feels kind of fun. But
the movie just maybe does not, and it could have
been so much longer. I think it. At one point
I read Trent had like seventy songs picked out and
they had to like whittle as you do.

Speaker 2 (56:06):
Yeah, Well, when you look at Spotify, when people have
put together the playlist, there's a lot of songs that
aren't listed on the official soundtrack, so people have put
in the ones that weren't on there, So it's long.
When you're listening to it on Spotify, it's a lot
more of songs that weren't necessarily featured on the soundtrack.

Speaker 1 (56:24):
So, and as a trivia note, I read that Trent
wanted a Snoop Dogg song for the soundtrack, but Interscope
said no because he's on trial for murder and putting
a song on a natural born killer soundtrack might not
be the best placement for his music right now.

Speaker 3 (56:40):
Oh no, they said.

Speaker 1 (56:43):
No, this may sways the jury.

Speaker 3 (56:49):
Again, like that, nineteen anymore is a really different time
for a lot of things in people, because now Snoop
is like the Olympics commentation.

Speaker 1 (56:55):
Yeah, and he's like hanging out with Arthur Stewart, but
like not in jail.

Speaker 2 (56:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (57:00):
Yeah, it was a different universe, very different.

Speaker 1 (57:04):
Yeah, he was doing a murder was the case that
they gave me in nineteen ninety four.

Speaker 2 (57:10):
Yeah, you can see why they might be like, uh,
we don't want him on this soundtrack and it has
the word killer.

Speaker 3 (57:14):
Now, your mom is just like Snoop talk show.

Speaker 1 (57:18):
Him and Martha, they're like BFFs.

Speaker 3 (57:21):
But I bet they use those lighters with their candles.

Speaker 1 (57:26):
He's helping or make some special brownies. I wonder what
the special ingredient is.

Speaker 3 (57:34):
I bet it's a little bit of time. Yeah, amazing,
amazing arcs for like, you know, I feel like you
survived the nineties. It's an artist or a cultural figure
a couple of different ways, and one is by just
constantly doing the same thing that you were doing. You know.
I'll lad Jane's addiction even though they've imploded.

Speaker 1 (57:53):
Yeah, a little bit again.

Speaker 3 (57:55):
Or you have to reinvent yourself.

Speaker 2 (57:57):
Yeah I don't. Yeah, he Erry Fair, Oh my gosh,
because seeing those clips of him on stage and by
the way, I love ted, just to admit it, I
love the song that's used in this, But watching him
on stage now when he's like just like having this
meltdown and he sounds terrible, and I'm like, when I

(58:18):
saw him, he sounded so good. He was so amazing.
It's really kind of heartbreaking in a way to see that.

Speaker 3 (58:26):
Yeah, And yeah, it's tough to see your icons get
up there in years and sometimes craziness. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:35):
Yeah, So I guess back to the Snoop Dogg thing.
I guess that's why the dog Pound is on there,
because one they can get Snoop Dogg and then two
ice cubes natural born kills, which you know, obviously would
be a very on the nose. Selection for the soundtrack
that was on the murder was the case soundtrack, which

(58:56):
is also why Snoop Dogg couldn't be on the soundtrack.
So that's why it's a lot of you know, bad
legal timing from Snoop Dogg, change the rap choice of
the soundtrack. Too much heat, too much heat, too much,
too much real life, it's too real for the soundtrack.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
And the one that's also not listed on here that's
one of my favorite songs is ghost Town by The Specials, which.

Speaker 3 (59:23):
Oh, yeah, that's a great song. I love that song,
so I love the.

Speaker 2 (59:28):
They're They're a great in concert too. Yeah, that was
a really really interesting experience. But yeah, They're That song
is I think an underrated classic. Honestly, I don't think
too many people they're underrated anyway, the Specials.

Speaker 3 (59:42):
They are consistently underrated. It's also good to know that
this is all curated by Trent Reznors. You kind of
feel like you're in, you know, his record bend a
little bit with some of these. That's why you get
lard on here right exactly. But they're the There are
elements like that where you're just kind of like Oh cool,
you know. Yeah, if you're a fan of nine inch

(01:00:04):
nails as well, it's like something very cool to be like,
I'll try and pick that up.

Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
Patsy, I'm surprised there's no Gary Newman on here.

Speaker 2 (01:00:11):
Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 3 (01:00:13):
Probably just didn't say it wasn't the vibe, but jell
will be Offer on.

Speaker 1 (01:00:19):
Al Jorgensen did fit the vibe. Nol. Jorgensen had such
a weird, like like late eighties sort of career where
it's like, oh, I'm just going to do this project
yell will be Offer and then I'm gonna do it
with Ian Mackay. Someone asked, I saw you mackay speak
once and they said, uh, you know you did that

(01:00:39):
pale Head project with Al Jorgenson up what's the name?
With a what's what the name? Pale head? And it
was just like I just thought it'd be funny to
have like a guy who just had a pale on
his head, and I think everyone was like, wait, that's it.
It's not deeper than that, like you know, speaking of
like people who are like usually extremely articulate all the time,

(01:01:02):
like Ian Mackay is one of those people where, oh,
you know, I didn't invent straight edge, but if people
like bug me about it in the press, I will
speak on the subject and then yeah, then it's like,
oh paleoud He's like, oh yeah, just it's a guy
with a pale on his head.

Speaker 3 (01:01:24):
Ever, even our punk rock albers sometimes need a break.
Maybe I just want to be still little guy. I guess,
so a little loose today.

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
It's true. I also love the Peter Gabriel one on here,
the Taboo one, which is just music basically. I love that,
Like it's very it's a lot darker for Peter Gabriel.

Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
I think it's no Sledgehammer.

Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
No, that's for sure. Sledgehammer would have been an interesting
relea since.

Speaker 3 (01:01:55):
This is my childhood speaking. But I felt like there
was kind of something darker went on with Peter Gabriel.

Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
Yeah. Yeah, if you actually yeah, if you listen to
the lyrics and like how Stranger Things used his version
of heroes, oh too true. Yeah, yeah, there is something
about him and about some of his lyrics if you
really really listen to him that you.

Speaker 3 (01:02:20):
Can kind of tear for fear saying or it's like
on the surface, it's not dark, but there's a little
bit lingering somewhere on the edge.

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 1 (01:02:30):
Yeah. I mean in nineteen ninety four, to pick something
that's kind of more like worldly, like a global sort
of sounding song, it's probably a big surprise for people
watching stuff in the theater in nineteen ninety four, especially,
you know, oh, Trent and Resnors behind this, and like,
what is this Middle Eastern music that I'm hearing? And

(01:02:51):
then you know, you probably wouldn't even think, like, oh,
it's Peter Gabriel behind this.

Speaker 2 (01:02:56):
Yeah, I think that's true. I think that was true
for a lot of the songs in here, because you
have ones that are typical. You're going to expect L seven,
You're going to expect Jane's addiction, but you're not going
to expect that, And you're not going to expect some
of I mean, I guess the classical some of that
you will, but like uh, Patsy Cline and other things

(01:03:18):
like that you might not expect as well to be
on there. And but I think, like has been mentioned,
it fits so much with the movie because the movie
the tonal shifts and how it's supposed to be like
you know, showing like typical happiness of the music amongst
like this horrible stuff going on at the same time,

(01:03:39):
so it kind of fits with what they're trying to do,
where if you had just dark music the whole time,
I think it would be even more hard to be harder,
even harder to watch, because it would hit you over
the head even more than when you have like a
Patty a Patsy Cline song in here, and you have

(01:04:00):
like opera and you have like all this other stuff
mixed in. It kind of throws you off tilter, I
think too.

Speaker 1 (01:04:08):
Yeah, I think Trent wanted to make like a sound
collage is what he kind of described it as, and
not just like a curated by Trent Reznor mixtape.

Speaker 2 (01:04:18):
Yeah, yeah, close to.

Speaker 3 (01:04:22):
Him because I think he's always been very smart and
savvy as an artist and expressed that initial discomfort of like,
I don't want my songs just applied to a film.
I don't want them to be tacked on. I don't
want anything to feel like an afterthought. And I think
for the time that's probably a pretty revolutionary way to
approach something as a collage as opposed to I'm just

(01:04:42):
going to pick a bunch of songs, as opposed to
there's just a big studio paycheck for me, so got
to give Trent his flowers.

Speaker 1 (01:04:51):
Yeah, it's not here's ten songs by me and bands
that sound like my band.

Speaker 3 (01:04:56):
Because you know what a lesser a lesser artist would.

Speaker 2 (01:05:00):
Oh yeah, And I think there were My mind is
blank now, but I think there were a lot of
soundtracks back then that were like that, honestly, where it
was a lot of the same thing, just a different band.
But you could have been like, wait, was that this
band or was it that band? I think that did
happen a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:05:20):
Yeah, And I think a lot of the kind of
like studio affiliated labels in the nineties were particularly bad
about that because at this time CDs were still selling,
so it was still a really big deal to have
a bunch of in house artists on your music label
be on the soundtrack to a film and have them
kind of like go together, or you know, alternatively, maybe

(01:05:41):
the soundtrack succeeds where the movie doesn't. It's a cross
promotional thing, and it was very commercial. There was a
whole commercial enterprise around that, particularly Nine Teats. But it's
nice to this is like a nice artifact because I
think it exists a little bit outside of that system.
There are some really radical choices and approaches here that

(01:06:03):
you don't see a lot in this era.

Speaker 2 (01:06:05):
Yeah, that's that's a good point, very true.

Speaker 1 (01:06:08):
Yeah. I mean we've interviewed nineties musicians where I was like, hey,
you have a song on the soundtrack. I don't remember
where it was in the movie. And he was like, oh,
the label probably just like made some deal and just
threw it on there. Yeah, And I was like, okay,
so like I'm not crazy, like your song's not in
the movie, Like I'll probably not.

Speaker 3 (01:06:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:27):
That was a real real.

Speaker 3 (01:06:28):
Conversation on the podest to move units like that was
the thing.

Speaker 2 (01:06:33):
And then you had a lot where there would be
like with pump up the volume. The biggest issue that
has had is the is the music. Like that's why
it's hard to find that streaming anywhere, or it'll be
streaming for a little bit and then it gets pulled
because the music, because the music, the rights to it,
and everything is just so complicated and you can't really
like do like a television edit of that with different

(01:06:55):
music because it'll take away from the feel of it.
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
Yeah, in nineteen ninety they weren't like, well, what happens
when this comes on the internet. What's the exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:07:05):
Yeah, they weren't thinking of that. That's why I'm grateful
that I have the DVD, because you know it's hard
to even get that.

Speaker 1 (01:07:12):
So we stumped very hard for physical media here.

Speaker 3 (01:07:14):
Yes, physical media. Shout out Drink.

Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
Also sponsors. If you want sponsors, physical media sponsors, Like.

Speaker 3 (01:07:25):
You make something physical, is it media? Call us on
your physical ohone.

Speaker 1 (01:07:33):
I guess we'll end with this question. So when I
was in college, I felt like the natural born killers
for like people who were entering college in like the
year two thousand was like Boondock Saints.

Speaker 3 (01:07:47):
Correct, is that group? Yes, that's it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:50):
Wow, that's an it. I wouldn't have thought of that
until you said.

Speaker 3 (01:07:54):
That Boondock Things was huge.

Speaker 2 (01:07:57):
Yeah, that was such a big deal movie. It was huge,
and yet it was also it was also just kind
of unique and like not everybody knew about it, and
it kind of felt like a special secret in a way. Yeah,
how I didn't even think of that, But you you're right,

(01:08:17):
you're very You're right, that's true. I would have.

Speaker 1 (01:08:20):
I don't think I met a single person who had
seen it in theaters.

Speaker 2 (01:08:23):
Boondock Saints.

Speaker 1 (01:08:24):
Yeah, like, I don't think anybody had ever had seen
it in theaters. Everyone just in college all was like,
here's your dorm key, and here's your copy of Boon
Dog on DVD.

Speaker 3 (01:08:35):
By the way, I just went to google the Boondock
Saints soundtrack and I queued up like a really aggressive bagpipe.

Speaker 1 (01:08:44):
Yeah. Definitely not as good as.

Speaker 2 (01:08:45):
A soundtrack, no, no, but it's a great movie. But
I know what you're saying. Yeah, and I would have
never thought of that, but that's true. Yeah, well I've
got to watch I've got to rewatch that movie. I
haven't watched that movie in forerever. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:09:02):
Wow, yeah, I probably haven't watched it since college. But
you know, because when they're like, okay, you're graduating, like
here's a diploma, give us back our copy Boon.

Speaker 3 (01:09:14):
Ryan went to film school, Like that's an important he's
an information So you it's a little different.

Speaker 2 (01:09:20):
Free I went to film school too, and so when
you too, when you were talking about how this out
natural word Killers is like film school stuff, it is
because I remember sitting there watching film school shorts that
were so reminiscent of Natural Killers in a lot of
respects where it's like, oh, this looks cool. What are

(01:09:40):
we trying to say or not?

Speaker 3 (01:09:42):
Yeah, it's just maggots and dirt and flash cuts and
jump cuts.

Speaker 1 (01:09:48):
The weekend I had with the camera, I decided to
drive all the way to Joshua Tree and just shoot
a bunch of footage. Oh wow, No, that's not my experience,
but I feel like that's what like a lot of oh.

Speaker 3 (01:10:03):
Yeah, I can see that.

Speaker 2 (01:10:05):
Yeah, you know day but that is true. And that
would be the ones that would be like we had
like you know, the student showcase and you'd be like
on a big screen, and those would be the ones
that would always get selected, were those weird ones of
like you know, like like the scene Notatchbourne Killers where
you see like the fruit dying. It was like that

(01:10:26):
would be like the whole film, and then maybe an
actor coming in and saying one word that would be
the whole.

Speaker 1 (01:10:35):
And then some band would take that footage and put
it on a projector behind them for their their show
for two hundred people.

Speaker 3 (01:10:43):
Yeah mm hmm. Now I'm like, yeah, you made a
really good point about music videos where I don't know
if if it's a chicken egg thing, right, Like I
don't know what was there first, but like, esthetically, this
feels painfully night and it is kind of like an
extended music video, like it would work if it were

(01:11:04):
a couple of minutes long.

Speaker 1 (01:11:06):
Well, I think MTV was definitely like an influence on
like something that Oliver Stone was trying to like satire critique. Yeah,
I'm surprised that he didn't have the meal like this
is true story, Oh my god, like do some reality
show angle. I guess I was too early for that,

(01:11:30):
too soon.

Speaker 3 (01:11:31):
Yeah, I think it was, like Aaron was saying, I
think it's more that send up of like a current
affair and like.

Speaker 1 (01:11:35):
The early early nineties when.

Speaker 3 (01:11:37):
You mentioned those.

Speaker 1 (01:11:40):
Yeah, him knowing what the real world was is probably
giving Oliver Stone too much credit for being that.

Speaker 3 (01:11:46):
Like, yeah, it's more like talk show and.

Speaker 2 (01:11:48):
Yeah, like Jerry Springer and Jenny Jones and that kind
of stuff. Montel Williams hard copy.

Speaker 3 (01:11:55):
Hard copy, Yeah, hard copy somewhere back. There's a lot
of hard copy, for sure. My mom loves some hard copy.

Speaker 1 (01:12:08):
That's what I was on it like two pm in
the afternoon, right.

Speaker 3 (01:12:11):
Oh yeah, I should be eating that. Shut up.

Speaker 1 (01:12:14):
So I guess we can end with this quote from
the Avy Club article where it says natural born killers.
Is it a smartly satirical, deconstructive take on our collective
fascination with violence, knowingly self aware of its own culpability,
or is it just a stylized wank over sexy guns
and sexier sermonizing excusing that same exploitive bloodshed So long

(01:12:37):
as it's performed with some panache and a muddled pieces.
That blames it all on the media.

Speaker 3 (01:12:43):
Oh, it's a lot of words. I like, how yeah,
I'm going I guess discuss how do we feel? Do
we agree?

Speaker 2 (01:12:53):
I agree with Yeah? Yeah, I mean it.

Speaker 3 (01:12:57):
Is a lot of was the bring our final thought?

Speaker 2 (01:13:01):
Oh yeah, Springer's final thought? But that's when you have
to be deep and meaningful. That's when you would try
to be like, oh, well this is you know you
should not You should get therapy if you are in
if you're experiencing abuse, seek help, get therapy. Don't turn
to murder.

Speaker 3 (01:13:21):
You know that about wraps it up.

Speaker 1 (01:13:23):
I think if you need to envision your life as
a sitcom, you probably are having some sort of mental breakdown.

Speaker 2 (01:13:31):
Yeah, but too.

Speaker 1 (01:13:36):
Well, Thank you Erin for being on our podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:13:40):
Thank you so much. For having me. This was a
lot of fun. Thank you. I love being able to
talk about music too, So thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:13:48):
We had a great time. Even though Nicole hates this movie.

Speaker 3 (01:13:53):
Well, I feel like a failure.

Speaker 2 (01:13:56):
Don't feel like a failure. This is not like a great,
fantastic movie. Frankly, you know who failed all of our stuff?

Speaker 1 (01:14:06):
Yes, I think we also agree on that. Yeah, so
where can people find? It's a fandom thing.

Speaker 2 (01:14:13):
You can listen on any of your favorite podcast platforms
wherever you're listening to this. The best way to find
all our socials and all our past episodes we've done
over five hundred episodes is on our website. It's a
fandom thingpod dot com, and you can find our episode
covering this movie natural Born Killers, and also tons tons

(01:14:35):
of other things there and there you can find our
links to our Twitter, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook and all of that.
We're also on blue Sky Socialide. It's a fandom Thing pod.

Speaker 1 (01:14:47):
Very cool. We are at Soundtrack Yourlife dot net. That
is our handle on blue Sky as well. Soundtrack hass
on Instagram and Twitter. Though Twitter is getting neglected these
days reasons Yeah, but yeah, check out Aaron's podcast we
were talking offline about how many great episodes she has.

(01:15:10):
She's also covered movies that we've covered, so she has
fantastic taste. I can vouch for that. And then obviously
we'll be on her podcast later this year in a
couple of months, so look out for that as well.
But thank you again, Erin

Speaker 2 (01:15:27):
Thank you so much.