October 27, 2023 • 18 mins
Join us on an enlightening journey through the world of AI-fueled recruiting as we catch up with Adam Godson from Paradox! Discover how their cutting-edge conversational AI is revolutionizing talent acquisition and retention for organizations all over the globe. We're discussing how quality matters in the world of chatbots, and how Paradox has pioneered a unique way to personalize the experience across all platforms. And yes, we're talking about that 'oh wow' moment that Paradox had at HR Tech!
As we traverse the fast-evolving landscapes of AI and automation in recruiting, you'll find out just how these technologies are developing soft skills for more effective candidate conversations. Stay tuned to uncover how these dynamic tools are transforming the industry and revolutionizing the ways recruiters work.
Special mini series recorded with Oleeo at HR Tech 2023 with hosts Ryan Leary, Brian Fink, and Shally Steckerl.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
All right, we're back .
Ladies and gentlemen, boys andgirls, we are back.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Oh, the intro, the intro, here we go.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Listen, it's Ryan Leary, it's Olio.
We are at the Content Loungefor Recruiting Daily's Sourcing
School.
On the floor at HR Tech, we arejoined by the one and only Adam
Godson from the team over atParadox.
What's going on?
Hey guys, great to be with you.
Thanks for having me.
Well, we are glad to have youon the show because I'm excited
(00:35):
because what Paradox is doingthat is disruptive in the field.
I'm not just trying to playbuzzword bingo.
I'm going to say anotherbuzzword and it's going to be AI
.
You have been at the forefrontof the AI revolution that has
come and is about to claim TA,retention, HR, all those things.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Hey, my man, yeah man , it's been interesting Since
2016,.
We've been shouting into thewind that conversations of the
future, conversational AI, ishow technology is going to look.
Invisible software and gettinglots of those nods.
People are like, oh okay.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Sure that'll work.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah, okay, crazy guy , and then they just silently
walk away here you are.
Here we are a little validatedin that.
So feeling like this has been agood year with some tailwinds
on that.
We've got a nice seven-yearhead start in doing it, which is
helpful.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
I think I remember when you came out at HR not came
out, but like HR Tech, you hadOlivia.
Yeah, you had the big old boothwe did.
They came up and looked up whatis this thing?
What is that Jack?
What Right Me and Olivia, whatYou're like, what is?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
this thing, you know, sort of the first ideas of like
virtual recruiter and beingable to do SMS two-way and
having it feel like a person,and some of those like oh wow
moments, and I think some peoplesaw that right away and they're
like, oh okay, Others didn'tright away.
They said, okay, I'm going totake a wait and see approach In
(02:01):
2023, it's impossible not to seeit.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
All right.
So I think we jumped the sharka little bit.
We went to the oh wow.
Maybe we need to back up andunpack this a little bit.
Adam, you're with Paradox.
I said that you have beenkilling it for the past eight
years.
When it comes to AI and what itmeans in the space, what are
listeners, who Paradox is and,by way of who Paradox is, who
you are and what your role hasbeen.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Yeah, love it, appreciate that.
You know, paradox isconversational AI for talent,
and so we help organizations ofall sizes to recruit and retain
talent with conversational AI asour primary technology.
So you mentioned Olivia.
Our clients can name theirassistant whatever they want.
Olivia is sort of the defaultbecause we've got to have one,
(02:45):
but able to have that persona tohelp with all the we call it BS
in recruiting the boring stuffscheduling interviews, screening
candidates, sending reminders,all the things that recruiters
have come to know as recruiting.
And the Paradox for which we'renamed is that by using
technology, you can spend moretime with people not software
(03:06):
and actually get to why we allbecame recruiters and why we
wanted to be in this game, whichis to talk to people and to do
that All right.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
So, talking about talking to people, what's been
the adoption from the candidatestandpoint of using a chat mod?
Because you know, I use mine onAT&T's wireless website to get
set up with my cell phoneservice and what have you, but
like I've never used one toapply for a job, I don't know
why.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Well.
So the thing withconversational AI is it has to
be good.
So people have used chatbots attheir bank or at places, and
those can be frustrating as hellif they're not good.
So for us, it is about quality,and that's where the large
language models have come inthis year to help us improve
conversational quality, make itfeel like a real person, make it
(03:53):
feel like we want people tosubconsciously know that it's
not real, but also for it tofeel like it is, and so being
able to have that high qualityconversation is everything, and
we see tremendous uplift fromcandidates, and so we've got
clients like McDonald's andFedEx, aeromark that a lot in
(04:16):
that volume space where peoplewant to have a conversation.
They don't want to go to theATS, and the first screen that
comes up is give me your login.
You're like I've never beenhere before, and then, if you go
all the way down the page tothis tiny blue text, we'll say
like create an account.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Why do I but?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
you guys make it frictionless because so we don't
do any of that.
So for us it is like just talk,whether that's through voice or
through text or on a website,to do chat.
It is who are you and tell meabout yourself, and then we'll
tell you what job fits you, andthen we'll collect the
information we need to collectand then let's get to the next
step, which is an interview oran offer as soon as possible.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
The same experience across all platforms.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yeah, multi-mode.
If you answer two questions,get a phone call and then drop
off, send you a text, you canjump right back in where you
were.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Right, so now let's dig into how to personalize this
, and we went to get supertechnical.
I know it's not an easyconversation, but we were
talking about this earlier,where some of the chatbots have
gotten to be really fantasticand just having conversations.
I think I used Verizon, maybe Ithink it was as an example.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
You used Verizon as your example.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
I was on there the other day and I'm chatting away.
I'm like I know you're a botand I'm having a real
conversation and part of it'sbecause it's what we do, right,
and we're like, oh, let's see ifit could actually handle it.
You got to test the limits andI'm sitting there and I'm on the
computer and my wife's sittingthere because we were doing some
Verizon stuff and she's likewhy are you doing that?
(05:48):
And I'm like, hey, how are youtoday?
And it actually it answers youback and it's really interesting
and it's become I mean, itreally has become a conversation
.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Yeah, that's part of the making it feel natural, like
, and what we find is when youmake the conversation natural,
people don't have thisprocessing where they're trying
to figure out how to use it.
And that is the promise ofconversational AI.
It is not web UI or usertraining, even on the manager
side.
It is making that as simple aspossible, where the manager says
(06:20):
can you help me schedule thisinterview?
And in plain text, it's notnavigate to this thing, log in,
click the button, select this.
It is everyone knows how totalk and it's up to the have
smart intelligence and tointermediate that and that's the
future of software.
That is where this all is going, everything that we use.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Okay, so if that's where it's going as a candidate,
are there any questions thatlike?
So?
I've never used Olivia, so I'mcoming from this very novice
part.
But one question thatcandidates love to ask is hey,
what's the pay range for this?
Can Olivia answer that andnegotiate and understand or not
understand?
She's not sentient.
I didn't mean to make thathappen.
(07:01):
Okay, Olivia, if you'relistening, I like you don't come
for me the robo overlords, I'ma fan.
Can we have that kind of degreeof conversation about pay
transparency with a chatbot?
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Absolutely, so long as the information is there.
I think I saw this week thatabout 50% of job postings in the
US have pay information on them, and so when that information
is there, we can give thatinformation to say what does
that look like from a paystandpoint?
And there absolutely are moreadvanced use cases coming there
(07:34):
where someday you may negotiatean offer with Olivia and think
of even for a salary job tounderstand what your salary
history is, what the company'slooking for.
And there are lots of goodadvanced AI negotiators that
exist in the consumermarketplace and I think someday
that'll be in talent too.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Okay, so about talent , there are a lot of different
conveyors on the floor today.
There are a lot of differentmessages that are going out.
Is there anything that you'rehearing that you're like super
excited about that?
You're like I wanna go there, Iwanna learn more about it.
What is that subject?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Honestly, I'm gonna stay home on this one where I
think there's nothing moreexciting than conversational AI
in in town acquisition, wherethe I'm a recruiting guy through
and through.
I was a recruiter 20 years.
I was gonna ask about that.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
I was like so I want to hold that out real quick is
that I talked to a lot oftechnologists who are going to
air quotes, solve recruiting,right.
That's, that's great.
I'm really excited about that.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
But you actually ran the desk, so what I think that's
actually one thing that'sthat's a bit different about
paradox is that we have a teamof Practitioners, so Aaron made
us our CEO as well.
Former HR person, president,chief product officer, former HR
person and so I've seen throughthe years lots of, I think,
what Madeline Lerano Calls twoguys and skinny jeans that show
(08:56):
up and say hey, at our laststart up, we had problems hiring
.
Now we're gonna come in thisspace.
Our new startup is gonna solvehiring, and those companies tend
to last.
You know About one fundinground, and so for us it was
about how do we take the domainexpertise and apply technology
to it, rather than the opposite,and we've seen great success in
listening deeply about theproblem and how to solve it,
(09:17):
rather than Saying that there'sa whole bunch of tech, let's
throw this at it and see whatsticks.
Is there a new problem that getsyou Excited in the morning to
yeah, okay, you're smiling, soyeah well, there are new
problems every morning, but Ithink Employee communication is
another one that we're excitedabout, which is you know how do
we help communicate with peoplein that first 90 days?
(09:40):
So we work with a lot ofclients where SMS communication
is the primary method.
So I mentioned, like McDonald'sera, mark, fedex, those kinds
of folks where they have noemail address.
Most of them own no computer,and so it is cell phone is the
primary cell phone is everythingthey do, sms is how they, how
they know how to communicate.
Whatsapp and global markets sortof same same story, but it's
(10:03):
about how do we connect thosepeople.
How was your first day, how wasyour first week, how is your
relationship with you, with yourmanager?
And then being able to askquestions Like how do I get a
new uniform?
I'm gonna be late, can you tellthe manager?
So solving that.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Those are interesting questions that do come in
because I I would think thatthey would have that
relationship with their managerover SMS.
But I guess it helps to have anintermediary.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Exactly, and I think some of the advanced use cases
you know are gonna beinteresting around.
How do you help me withshift-swapping and some of the
things that they can do?
And you know, for us our frameis as an assistant, and so we
want to be the assistant to thatmanager the assistant to the
assistant regional manager.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
That's right.
That's right, okay.
Thank you, dwight.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
But to help to be that assistant where we can help
that manager take off the partsof their job.
That's suck like like trying toanswer employee questions about
where to get a new hat and whattime they should show up to
work and Things like that, wherewe've seen we can help deflect
those questions, answer thosequestions and everybody's
happier.
The employee got an answer thatthey needed, the manager didn't
(11:07):
have to personally field allthat by by text message and
everyone walks away with moreproductivity about more
productivity.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
I'm gonna throw you a curveball.
There's been a lot of talkabout a three-day work week.
Like Jamie Diamond was on andhe was talking about that, ai is
gonna allow Us to go to threeand a half days, which I'm not
sure who's gonna work what halfday?
Speaker 3 (11:24):
It's a story for another day.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
So the question that I would ask is what do you see
from a shift in the work daylike are we going to three?
Are we going to a six-hour workday?
What do you see as the resultof some of this co-piloting from
AI, especially in the HR and TAspace?
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Yeah, it's gonna be interesting in that and it's
gonna take some time to evolve.
I think what we see now is, youknow, ta teams that are
changing the work that they do.
I can ask about once a weeklike what the recruiter is gonna
do in the future as we start toautomate.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
They're gonna recruit .
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Yeah, the answer is right there in the work is is
we've come to conflate, likerecruiting work as we know it,
which is, frankly, a lot ofclicking, a lot of
Administrative work and a lot ofa lot of things that are fairly
tactical with recruiting work,and what recruiting work really
is is convincing someone to join, and a Even the smartest
(12:25):
assistant can't do that.
That will take a person becauseOlivia doesn't work anywhere,
and so when I'm convincing youto join, I work there and I
think about the best recruitersin the world are in the military
, college sports, where it'sreally competitive and it's an
emotional connection whereyou're in the living rooms and
you are talking to people and itis convincing you to join me,
(12:47):
and I think that's the future ofrecruiting, is the great
recruiters will love it.
Folks that are doing lots ofclicking and administrative
tasks will find other places todo some of those things or jump
into the world where they'reconvincing people to join.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
All right.
So as we talk about thatco-piloting right and how AI is
going to make that moreeffective and we're going to
make more time, what about softskills?
How are we going to develop thesoft skills of recruiters so
that they can level up and havethat conversation?
That's a difficult conversationwith a candidate.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Yeah, that is one of the challenges that AI brings,
which is, in all ways, we willneed more experts, but in some
ways, we will automate out someof the training grounds.
I think about AI co-pilots incoding, for example where oh
yeah, like GitHub, yeah sure,yeah, exactly.
and certainly we use tools likethat to help our developers
(13:41):
today, but it takes out some ofthe mundane routines or early
career type of work and putsmore pressure on people that
have 10 years experience.
But then it also creates aparadox that it's hard to get 10
years experience when a lot ofthe early career work is
automated, and so there's a lotgoing to need to be solved
around skills and challenge andthat challenge to how do we get
(14:04):
people to have 10 yearsexperience when we've automated
a lot of the low level work?
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Okay, so you've talked a lot about shift work
and, with the examples fromMcDonald's and from FedEx and
Airmark, what about, for quoteunquote, the white collar, the
21,000 people that got jobs lastmonth?
I'm referring, if you'relistening, to the jobs report
that said 335,000 people gotjobs.
Most of the jobs weren't inthose shift works that were
(14:31):
talked about earlier.
But what about the 21,000, thewhite collar jobs?
What's going on there?
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Yeah, we like to find places where the assistant can
be really helpful, and probablythe two primary places we find
that are in answering questions,and that's often an unserved
market where, like, look, tryingto get a question answered on a
website it's very difficult.
But also in interviewscheduling and not just the one
to one with the recruiter, butthat hairy eight part panel,
(14:59):
virtual meetings, room booking,and so we do that with clients
around the world.
Folks like Nestle and Pfizer andDisney, where that's the
primary job that we have fortheir white collar roles is take
that piece out.
We still want the humanengagement with the recruiter.
We want that relationship, butthat transactional work and
you'll find teams of 50recruiting coordinators that in
(15:21):
some of these companies thatjust do interview scheduling and
we can take a lot of that andautomate that and have a better
connection.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Is that a job that's going to get automated away?
Speaker 2 (15:31):
I mean ultimately, yes, it should, and that's one
where those people probablyaren't reaching
self-actualization doing thatevery day, and so they will find
other work to do and connectingwith candidates and finding
that work.
That is the true recruitingwork, not sort of the
coordination work that'softentimes a lot of button
clicking, and transactional workLike that will absolutely be
(15:52):
automated away.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
All right.
So I want to wrap up here withone question that I usually ask
recruiters when I have on thepodcast.
But you are multifaceted, youare multi-dimensional right Very
complex over here.
I like that.
I like that.
We are not an SPL, right?
Wait, pumpkin spice latte?
I did not mean to ask Pumpkinspice latte.
We are not a PSL, we are notbasic, all right.
(16:14):
So what advice would you giveto a junior recruiter who's
starting their recruiter journeytoday, with all of these
changes coming to effect?
Speaker 2 (16:25):
For me, giving that advice, it is a bit of pick a
path, and so I think for somepeople there's a really great
path in technology and solearning how to be that person
on the team that helpscoordinate, facilitate the
technology piece, and so ifthey've got any nerdy
inclinations and like technology, like that is a path to just go
(16:45):
hard at to be the person thatis orchestrating all of that.
The quote escapes me, butsomething like there are two
jobs in the future People thattell machines what to do and
people who machines tell what todo, and so being the person
that can coordinate that techstack.
And then the other path is tobe absolutely best in class at
(17:07):
real recruiting, convincingpeople to join, building
relationships.
All the emotion part of this,and emotion is intentional.
This is not like onlineshopping.
There is your self-worth andthere is the convincing of
someone's life story and theirlife journey.
That happens in a recruitmentprocess, and so for me, it is
picking a path and going hard atbeing world class at one of
(17:28):
those two things.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Well, thank you for being world class and really
kind of ask.
I mean, you've raised the barwith what your software has done
.
It's created a better interviewexperience, a better canning
experience and a betterrecruiting experience overall.
Thanks for joining us today.
It's been great.
We're here live at HR Tech.
You can hear the buzz in thebackground.
It's me Brian, it's him Ryan,and we are powered by Olio at
(17:51):
the Recruiting Daily SourcingSchool podcast.
Thank you so much 跟大家english.
All right, we're back .
Ladies and gentlemen, boys andgirls, we are back.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Oh, the intro, the intro, here we go.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Listen, it's Ryan Leary, it's Olio.
We are at the Content Loungefor Recruiting Daily's Sourcing
School.
On the floor at HR Tech, we arejoined by the one and only Adam
Godson from the team over atParadox.
What's going on?
Hey guys, great to be with you.
Thanks for having me.
Well, we are glad to have youon the show because I'm excited
(00:35):
because what Paradox is doingthat is disruptive in the field.
I'm not just trying to playbuzzword bingo.
I'm going to say anotherbuzzword and it's going to be AI
.
You have been at the forefrontof the AI revolution that has
come and is about to claim TA,retention, HR, all those things.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Hey, my man, yeah man , it's been interesting Since
2016,.
We've been shouting into thewind that conversations of the
future, conversational AI, ishow technology is going to look.
Invisible software and gettinglots of those nods.
People are like, oh okay.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Sure that'll work.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah, okay, crazy guy , and then they just silently
walk away here you are.
Here we are a little validatedin that.
So feeling like this has been agood year with some tailwinds
on that.
We've got a nice seven-yearhead start in doing it, which is
helpful.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
I think I remember when you came out at HR not came
out, but like HR Tech, you hadOlivia.
Yeah, you had the big old boothwe did.
They came up and looked up whatis this thing?
What is that Jack?
What Right Me and Olivia, whatYou're like, what is?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
this thing, you know, sort of the first ideas of like
virtual recruiter and beingable to do SMS two-way and
having it feel like a person,and some of those like oh wow
moments, and I think some peoplesaw that right away and they're
like, oh okay, Others didn'tright away.
They said, okay, I'm going totake a wait and see approach In
(02:01):
2023, it's impossible not to seeit.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
All right.
So I think we jumped the sharka little bit.
We went to the oh wow.
Maybe we need to back up andunpack this a little bit.
Adam, you're with Paradox.
I said that you have beenkilling it for the past eight
years.
When it comes to AI and what itmeans in the space, what are
listeners, who Paradox is and,by way of who Paradox is, who
you are and what your role hasbeen.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Yeah, love it, appreciate that.
You know, paradox isconversational AI for talent,
and so we help organizations ofall sizes to recruit and retain
talent with conversational AI asour primary technology.
So you mentioned Olivia.
Our clients can name theirassistant whatever they want.
Olivia is sort of the defaultbecause we've got to have one,
(02:45):
but able to have that persona tohelp with all the we call it BS
in recruiting the boring stuffscheduling interviews, screening
candidates, sending reminders,all the things that recruiters
have come to know as recruiting.
And the Paradox for which we'renamed is that by using
technology, you can spend moretime with people not software
(03:06):
and actually get to why we allbecame recruiters and why we
wanted to be in this game, whichis to talk to people and to do
that All right.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
So, talking about talking to people, what's been
the adoption from the candidatestandpoint of using a chat mod?
Because you know, I use mine onAT&T's wireless website to get
set up with my cell phoneservice and what have you, but
like I've never used one toapply for a job, I don't know
why.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Well.
So the thing withconversational AI is it has to
be good.
So people have used chatbots attheir bank or at places, and
those can be frustrating as hellif they're not good.
So for us, it is about quality,and that's where the large
language models have come inthis year to help us improve
conversational quality, make itfeel like a real person, make it
(03:53):
feel like we want people tosubconsciously know that it's
not real, but also for it tofeel like it is, and so being
able to have that high qualityconversation is everything, and
we see tremendous uplift fromcandidates, and so we've got
clients like McDonald's andFedEx, aeromark that a lot in
(04:16):
that volume space where peoplewant to have a conversation.
They don't want to go to theATS, and the first screen that
comes up is give me your login.
You're like I've never beenhere before, and then, if you go
all the way down the page tothis tiny blue text, we'll say
like create an account.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Why do I but?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
you guys make it frictionless because so we don't
do any of that.
So for us it is like just talk,whether that's through voice or
through text or on a website,to do chat.
It is who are you and tell meabout yourself, and then we'll
tell you what job fits you, andthen we'll collect the
information we need to collectand then let's get to the next
step, which is an interview oran offer as soon as possible.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
The same experience across all platforms.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yeah, multi-mode.
If you answer two questions,get a phone call and then drop
off, send you a text, you canjump right back in where you
were.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Right, so now let's dig into how to personalize this
, and we went to get supertechnical.
I know it's not an easyconversation, but we were
talking about this earlier,where some of the chatbots have
gotten to be really fantasticand just having conversations.
I think I used Verizon, maybe Ithink it was as an example.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
You used Verizon as your example.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
I was on there the other day and I'm chatting away.
I'm like I know you're a botand I'm having a real
conversation and part of it'sbecause it's what we do, right,
and we're like, oh, let's see ifit could actually handle it.
You got to test the limits andI'm sitting there and I'm on the
computer and my wife's sittingthere because we were doing some
Verizon stuff and she's likewhy are you doing that?
(05:48):
And I'm like, hey, how are youtoday?
And it actually it answers youback and it's really interesting
and it's become I mean, itreally has become a conversation
.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Yeah, that's part of the making it feel natural, like
, and what we find is when youmake the conversation natural,
people don't have thisprocessing where they're trying
to figure out how to use it.
And that is the promise ofconversational AI.
It is not web UI or usertraining, even on the manager
side.
It is making that as simple aspossible, where the manager says
(06:20):
can you help me schedule thisinterview?
And in plain text, it's notnavigate to this thing, log in,
click the button, select this.
It is everyone knows how totalk and it's up to the have
smart intelligence and tointermediate that and that's the
future of software.
That is where this all is going, everything that we use.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Okay, so if that's where it's going as a candidate,
are there any questions thatlike?
So?
I've never used Olivia, so I'mcoming from this very novice
part.
But one question thatcandidates love to ask is hey,
what's the pay range for this?
Can Olivia answer that andnegotiate and understand or not
understand?
She's not sentient.
I didn't mean to make thathappen.
(07:01):
Okay, Olivia, if you'relistening, I like you don't come
for me the robo overlords, I'ma fan.
Can we have that kind of degreeof conversation about pay
transparency with a chatbot?
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Absolutely, so long as the information is there.
I think I saw this week thatabout 50% of job postings in the
US have pay information on them, and so when that information
is there, we can give thatinformation to say what does
that look like from a paystandpoint?
And there absolutely are moreadvanced use cases coming there
(07:34):
where someday you may negotiatean offer with Olivia and think
of even for a salary job tounderstand what your salary
history is, what the company'slooking for.
And there are lots of goodadvanced AI negotiators that
exist in the consumermarketplace and I think someday
that'll be in talent too.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Okay, so about talent , there are a lot of different
conveyors on the floor today.
There are a lot of differentmessages that are going out.
Is there anything that you'rehearing that you're like super
excited about that?
You're like I wanna go there, Iwanna learn more about it.
What is that subject?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Honestly, I'm gonna stay home on this one where I
think there's nothing moreexciting than conversational AI
in in town acquisition, wherethe I'm a recruiting guy through
and through.
I was a recruiter 20 years.
I was gonna ask about that.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
I was like so I want to hold that out real quick is
that I talked to a lot oftechnologists who are going to
air quotes, solve recruiting,right.
That's, that's great.
I'm really excited about that.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
But you actually ran the desk, so what I think that's
actually one thing that'sthat's a bit different about
paradox is that we have a teamof Practitioners, so Aaron made
us our CEO as well.
Former HR person, president,chief product officer, former HR
person and so I've seen throughthe years lots of, I think,
what Madeline Lerano Calls twoguys and skinny jeans that show
(08:56):
up and say hey, at our laststart up, we had problems hiring
.
Now we're gonna come in thisspace.
Our new startup is gonna solvehiring, and those companies tend
to last.
You know About one fundinground, and so for us it was
about how do we take the domainexpertise and apply technology
to it, rather than the opposite,and we've seen great success in
listening deeply about theproblem and how to solve it,
(09:17):
rather than Saying that there'sa whole bunch of tech, let's
throw this at it and see whatsticks.
Is there a new problem that getsyou Excited in the morning to
yeah, okay, you're smiling, soyeah well, there are new
problems every morning, but Ithink Employee communication is
another one that we're excitedabout, which is you know how do
we help communicate with peoplein that first 90 days?
(09:40):
So we work with a lot ofclients where SMS communication
is the primary method.
So I mentioned, like McDonald'sera, mark, fedex, those kinds
of folks where they have noemail address.
Most of them own no computer,and so it is cell phone is the
primary cell phone is everythingthey do, sms is how they, how
they know how to communicate.
Whatsapp and global markets sortof same same story, but it's
(10:03):
about how do we connect thosepeople.
How was your first day, how wasyour first week, how is your
relationship with you, with yourmanager?
And then being able to askquestions Like how do I get a
new uniform?
I'm gonna be late, can you tellthe manager?
So solving that.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Those are interesting questions that do come in
because I I would think thatthey would have that
relationship with their managerover SMS.
But I guess it helps to have anintermediary.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Exactly, and I think some of the advanced use cases
you know are gonna beinteresting around.
How do you help me withshift-swapping and some of the
things that they can do?
And you know, for us our frameis as an assistant, and so we
want to be the assistant to thatmanager the assistant to the
assistant regional manager.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
That's right.
That's right, okay.
Thank you, dwight.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
But to help to be that assistant where we can help
that manager take off the partsof their job.
That's suck like like trying toanswer employee questions about
where to get a new hat and whattime they should show up to
work and Things like that, wherewe've seen we can help deflect
those questions, answer thosequestions and everybody's
happier.
The employee got an answer thatthey needed, the manager didn't
(11:07):
have to personally field allthat by by text message and
everyone walks away with moreproductivity about more
productivity.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
I'm gonna throw you a curveball.
There's been a lot of talkabout a three-day work week.
Like Jamie Diamond was on andhe was talking about that, ai is
gonna allow Us to go to threeand a half days, which I'm not
sure who's gonna work what halfday?
Speaker 3 (11:24):
It's a story for another day.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
So the question that I would ask is what do you see
from a shift in the work daylike are we going to three?
Are we going to a six-hour workday?
What do you see as the resultof some of this co-piloting from
AI, especially in the HR and TAspace?
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Yeah, it's gonna be interesting in that and it's
gonna take some time to evolve.
I think what we see now is, youknow, ta teams that are
changing the work that they do.
I can ask about once a weeklike what the recruiter is gonna
do in the future as we start toautomate.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
They're gonna recruit .
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Yeah, the answer is right there in the work is is
we've come to conflate, likerecruiting work as we know it,
which is, frankly, a lot ofclicking, a lot of
Administrative work and a lot ofa lot of things that are fairly
tactical with recruiting work,and what recruiting work really
is is convincing someone to join, and a Even the smartest
(12:25):
assistant can't do that.
That will take a person becauseOlivia doesn't work anywhere,
and so when I'm convincing youto join, I work there and I
think about the best recruitersin the world are in the military
, college sports, where it'sreally competitive and it's an
emotional connection whereyou're in the living rooms and
you are talking to people and itis convincing you to join me,
(12:47):
and I think that's the future ofrecruiting, is the great
recruiters will love it.
Folks that are doing lots ofclicking and administrative
tasks will find other places todo some of those things or jump
into the world where they'reconvincing people to join.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
All right.
So as we talk about thatco-piloting right and how AI is
going to make that moreeffective and we're going to
make more time, what about softskills?
How are we going to develop thesoft skills of recruiters so
that they can level up and havethat conversation?
That's a difficult conversationwith a candidate.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Yeah, that is one of the challenges that AI brings,
which is, in all ways, we willneed more experts, but in some
ways, we will automate out someof the training grounds.
I think about AI co-pilots incoding, for example where oh
yeah, like GitHub, yeah sure,yeah, exactly.
and certainly we use tools likethat to help our developers
(13:41):
today, but it takes out some ofthe mundane routines or early
career type of work and putsmore pressure on people that
have 10 years experience.
But then it also creates aparadox that it's hard to get 10
years experience when a lot ofthe early career work is
automated, and so there's a lotgoing to need to be solved
around skills and challenge andthat challenge to how do we get
(14:04):
people to have 10 yearsexperience when we've automated
a lot of the low level work?
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Okay, so you've talked a lot about shift work
and, with the examples fromMcDonald's and from FedEx and
Airmark, what about, for quoteunquote, the white collar, the
21,000 people that got jobs lastmonth?
I'm referring, if you'relistening, to the jobs report
that said 335,000 people gotjobs.
Most of the jobs weren't inthose shift works that were
(14:31):
talked about earlier.
But what about the 21,000, thewhite collar jobs?
What's going on there?
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Yeah, we like to find places where the assistant can
be really helpful, and probablythe two primary places we find
that are in answering questions,and that's often an unserved
market where, like, look, tryingto get a question answered on a
website it's very difficult.
But also in interviewscheduling and not just the one
to one with the recruiter, butthat hairy eight part panel,
(14:59):
virtual meetings, room booking,and so we do that with clients
around the world.
Folks like Nestle and Pfizer andDisney, where that's the
primary job that we have fortheir white collar roles is take
that piece out.
We still want the humanengagement with the recruiter.
We want that relationship, butthat transactional work and
you'll find teams of 50recruiting coordinators that in
(15:21):
some of these companies thatjust do interview scheduling and
we can take a lot of that andautomate that and have a better
connection.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Is that a job that's going to get automated away?
Speaker 2 (15:31):
I mean ultimately, yes, it should, and that's one
where those people probablyaren't reaching
self-actualization doing thatevery day, and so they will find
other work to do and connectingwith candidates and finding
that work.
That is the true recruitingwork, not sort of the
coordination work that'softentimes a lot of button
clicking, and transactional workLike that will absolutely be
(15:52):
automated away.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
All right.
So I want to wrap up here withone question that I usually ask
recruiters when I have on thepodcast.
But you are multifaceted, youare multi-dimensional right Very
complex over here.
I like that.
I like that.
We are not an SPL, right?
Wait, pumpkin spice latte?
I did not mean to ask Pumpkinspice latte.
We are not a PSL, we are notbasic, all right.
(16:14):
So what advice would you giveto a junior recruiter who's
starting their recruiter journeytoday, with all of these
changes coming to effect?
Speaker 2 (16:25):
For me, giving that advice, it is a bit of pick a
path, and so I think for somepeople there's a really great
path in technology and solearning how to be that person
on the team that helpscoordinate, facilitate the
technology piece, and so ifthey've got any nerdy
inclinations and like technology, like that is a path to just go
(16:45):
hard at to be the person thatis orchestrating all of that.
The quote escapes me, butsomething like there are two
jobs in the future People thattell machines what to do and
people who machines tell what todo, and so being the person
that can coordinate that techstack.
And then the other path is tobe absolutely best in class at
(17:07):
real recruiting, convincingpeople to join, building
relationships.
All the emotion part of this,and emotion is intentional.
This is not like onlineshopping.
There is your self-worth andthere is the convincing of
someone's life story and theirlife journey.
That happens in a recruitmentprocess, and so for me, it is
picking a path and going hard atbeing world class at one of
(17:28):
those two things.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Well, thank you for being world class and really
kind of ask.
I mean, you've raised the barwith what your software has done
.
It's created a better interviewexperience, a better canning
experience and a betterrecruiting experience overall.
Thanks for joining us today.
It's been great.
We're here live at HR Tech.
You can hear the buzz in thebackground.
It's me Brian, it's him Ryan,and we are powered by Olio at
(17:51):
the Recruiting Daily SourcingSchool podcast.
Thank you so much 跟大家english.
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