August 27, 2024 • 31 mins
Journey with us as we uncover the remarkable story of Hayley Reichert, a dedicated South African living in England. What drove her to leave her homeland for the UK? And more importantly, what sparked her fierce passion for advocating change from across the seas? Listen as Hayley recounts the transformation from a mere adventurer to a relentless advocate involved with the DA abroad, overseas voting, and key legislative lobbying efforts. Her narrative of aiding South Africans stranded during the pandemic and her vision of returning to contribute directly is both inspiring and a testament to the power of dedicated individuals.
But that's not all—we tackle the tough challenges of promoting change in South Africa amidst widespread apathy and negative news. Hear about the entrepreneurial spirit alive in communities like Soweto and the initiatives aiming to bridge gaps between South African expatriates and local businesses. We also delve into the emotional tales of repatriation during global crises, the unyielding efforts to reunite families, and the critical role of networking. The episode concludes with a hopeful outlook, envisioning a united and prosperous South Africa driven by education, job readiness, and healing racial divides. Don't miss this compelling episode packed with stories of resilience, connection, and hope.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome back to South Africans Abroad, a show for
expat South Africans and anyoneinterested in the experiences of
those who have made the moveoverseas.
Each episode we'll hear fromSouth Africans who have left the
country to pursue newopportunities, be with loved
ones or simply follow theirdreams.
We'll explore the challengesand triumphs of life as an expat
and the unique perspective thatcomes with being a South
(00:24):
African abroad, of life as anexpat and the unique perspective
that comes with being a SouthAfrican abroad.
I'm your host, warren Burley,an expat South African who, like
many, followed the dream ofworking overseas.
Whether you're an expatyourself or just curious about
the expat experience, join us aswe delve into the motivations,
struggles and joys of being aSouth African living overseas.
We have an inspiring guestjoining us today Hayley Rayhart.
(00:45):
Hayley is a remarkable SouthAfrican who made her way to
England, but her heart and soulremain deeply connected to her
homeland.
She's an unwavering advocatefor driving positive change in
South Africa, tirelesslyencouraging South Africans
abroad to use their talents andresources to uplift the country.
Hayley is a proud force behindProject Watershed, an initiative
that allows South Africans tocontribute towards building a
(01:07):
more prosperous and vibrantSouth Africa.
Get ready for an enlighteningconversation about her journey
mission and the incredible workshe's doing to make a difference
.
Hayley, how are you doing?
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Hi Warren, I'm great thanks.
How are you?
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Good Hayley, can you share your journey from South
Africa to England and whatmotivated the move?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
I've been in London now for 16 years.
It's gone really quickly.
So I moved over.
I was pregnant, newly married.
The plan was to come over for,say, five years.
My ex would have come over on aspousal visa, do the work
travel thing, get the passportand then return back to SA and
settle down and have a family.
But that didn't pan out.
(01:43):
That way Life never does.
And yeah, so it wasn't.
You know, I never left SAbecause of the state of the
country.
It was more just.
I have a British passport wewanted to explore.
My ex's parents were over hereand I've got extended family
over here.
So yeah, it was just young andwhy not?
And then it was after beinghere for a few years, because I
(02:08):
was still busy studying as wellthrough UNISA, and then I had
been over here for, I think,about two or three years and I
was sort of questioning what ismy purpose in life and went to
on Facebook to go and find someSouth African friends, came
across this group that calledthemselves the BA abroad and
this other chap.
They were holding a protestoutside the South Africa High
Commission about the no tosecrecy bill.
So I just thought, oh, what agreat way to go and make some
(02:30):
South African friends, didn'tthink anything about the
politics involved and that wasmy kind of turning moment, or
light bulb or aha moment, andliterally that was December 2011
.
And since then I've just beenvery much involved with the
global South African community.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
So tell me what inspired you to become an
advocate for driving change inSouth Africa.
What brought that on?
Speaker 2 (02:51):
I think through.
So when I got involved with theDA abroad and so that was the
end of 2011, going into 2012.
And then, just learning aboutoverseas voting got involved in
the 2014 elections out-openedoverseas voting.
Got involved in the 2014elections, I initiated the loss
of citizenship campaign, whichthe DA it's taken 10 years it's
still not over the line yet, butit will hopefully be by the end
(03:12):
of this year which will changethe legislation about people
losing their citizenship whenthey acquire foreign citizenship
.
And I've just noticed throughall the stuff that I've done.
You know, in the early years,it was just a case of, instead
of being someone standing aroundthe bar complaining that South
Africa is just going to becomeanother Zimbabwe, I was like,
well, I am someone that can dosomething and I have a voice and
(03:32):
I seem to have this skill ofnetworking.
And, yeah, just through all thebits and bobs that I got
involved with the UK-basedmid-bank SA charity, golf Day,
the Chamber of Commerce I endedup resigning from the DA abroad.
I ended up over the last fouryears liaising with a number of
opposition party leaders, goingback home, going into townships
(03:55):
and things, and I've justdabbled through all sorts of you
know, when Ramaphosa closedSouth African airspace back in
2020, I started the well.
We called it a home away fromhome for those stranded abroad,
which was about 22,000 people.
We dealt with all sorts ofsituations and then we also had
people stuck in South Africa.
So with Project Lisa, liketoday, say that we had to
(04:16):
actually lobby and straightenhome estates with urgent high
court action and through allthese little bits and pieces
that I've just done, I meanrandom things that I've done
helping get South Africans outof Ukraine, helping our students
in Russia and mainly over thelast four years, and engaging
with South Africans.
I do a lot of home affairs.
A lot of people come to me forhome affairs issues as well, and
I do all of this off my ownback.
(04:37):
I don't run a business off ofthis, and it's all the little
bits that I've learned andpicked up on has just made me
realize everything.
The majority, the overwhelmingmajority, of South Africans
abroad love South Africa, missSouth Africa, would like to see
it succeed.
Um, a lot of them would like tomove back or at least know that
when they go home on holidaysit's, you know, safer and better
(04:57):
, better for family and friendsback home.
So I, my long-term goal is tomove back home and I thought
well, instead of me just tryingto do my little bit, why don't I
try to rope everybody in andget lots of people all
contributing in different ways?
And that's why, with OperationWatershed, it's a holistic thing
, because if I just did onecharity or one civic thing,
focusing on one particularelement, I'd reach a certain
(05:21):
number of people, but I wouldn'treach everyone abroad.
So my goal is to try and reachas many of the one plus million
abroad and trying to havesomething for everyone, whether
it is IEC voting related matters, whether it's lobbying and
advocacy, whether it's businessand entrepreneurship or civic
and charity or protectingindependent media.
There's a whole host of thingsthat I'm talking to people about
(05:41):
setting projects up for and, atthe end of the day, every
single one of us has somethingwe can contribute.
It might be five minutes a week,it might be an hour a week, it
might be ad hoc, but everysingle one of us can and a lot
of people want to contribute.
They just don't know how andthey feel frustrated and they
feel like, well, what's my youknow, what's my one little bit
going to actually do and what'smy one little bit going to
(06:02):
actually do.
And when I racked up all thestuff that I've done and I
explain, I'm not a high-flyingCEO or corporate person, I'm not
a career politician, I am justan ordinary South African I've
managed to do all of this stuff.
I've managed to network andhelp.
You know now, it certainlyhasn't been on my own.
It's been, you know, involvinga lot of other people as well,
but together we can drivesignificant impact and change on
(06:22):
the ground where it's neededmost back home.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
So a hell of a lot of questions.
After all that, my firstquestion is do you have a
full-time job and you're doingthis on the side, or is this
your full-time job?
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Yeah, so I'm a mortgage and protection advisor
here in the UK.
A lot of my clients are SouthAfricans, which is great.
South Africans love supportingeach other, so always word of
mouth referrals.
So, yeah, that's what pays thebills.
And then I've also set up astaffer works which is a
business directory for thesuffragans here in the uk.
Um, again, could be likesupporting each other um and not
(06:53):
everyone is interested in likethe stuff back home, you know,
but people still want to be partof the certain community here,
yeah, and then, um, yeah, so theoperation watershed and and all
of the core stuff and stuffthat I do is basically the
reason why I don't sleep.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Yeah, I was going to say where do you get time for
all that?
Speaker 2 (07:12):
I'm fortunate.
I work, I'm self-employed, butI registered under a company and
my boss is actually SouthAfrican.
So as long as I'm placingbusiness, as long as I'm doing
what I need to do, I'm quitefortunate that I can squeeze in
a call here, an email there tomake things happen.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Let's just talk about your interest in helping people
that have lost theircitizenship, because I, for one,
have lost my citizenship.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
So how are you helping there and how do you
expect change to happen?
Speaker 2 (07:40):
So it's just something that I noticed in the
lead up to the 2014 elections.
So you couldn't register online.
You had to go into your nearestforeign mission to go register
and so many people were emailingus saying I went to go register
, I've been told I've lost mycitizenship.
So I did some homework, put itforward as a DA broad campaign.
They took it to the legal team,they took it to the
(08:02):
constitutional court and losttwice.
It was 2018 and 2021.
And it got put on a bit of aback burner because of the 2016
municipal elections.
But then they took it to theSupreme Court of Appeal in
February I think it was of lastyear.
The Supreme Court of Appealruled in the DA's favour middle
of last year and we thought thatwas done and dusted.
(08:24):
But we're now waiting for theConstitutional Court to approve
the SCA's ruling.
There was some movement on itin March.
Sorry, but apparently it'sliterally just administrative
and I have been told that homeSCAs aren't going to be fighting
the issue.
So unfortunately it is just anadministrative.
We just have to sit and wait,but hopefully at some point in
(08:47):
the next few months it will beover the line and then what
should happen is that Section6-1-A, which is the piece of
legislation where it says thatif you are 18 or older and you
formally and voluntarily applyfor a foreign citizenship
without getting the retentionletter to keep you South African
, you automatically lose yourSouth African.
(09:07):
So once that falls away, thenthere is currently you know so
the current way to get yourcitizenship back.
There is reinstatement.
However, you would have, undercurrent rules, you'd have to
move back to South Africa eitherfor 12 consecutive months if
you were born there, or for fiveyears if you were not born
there, and you'd have to provethat and then apply.
So that would fall away.
The rules have changed andadministrative submission papers
(09:33):
and and you can reclaim yourcitizenship.
Obviously, not everyone can,because some countries don't
allow dual, multiple citizenship, and so it would only be for
those two countries that wherethey are happy for you to have
another, another citizenship.
But I find you know it's theguys that have lost their
citizenship that I find are like, actually the most passionate
and they're the most angry thatthey haven't been able to vote.
(09:53):
So hopefully, by that, as wellas some electoral lobbying for
more voting stations, onlinevoting being able to use, once
this piece of legislation isdealt with.
Then I want to lobby for peopleto be able to use a passport or
an ID, because no one uses anID book outside of South Africa.
So there would have been somany more people who have their
(10:15):
passports but didn't have an IDbook who could have voted in the
selection.
So it's all just little stepsto try and drive that change,
drive the engagement.
But I don't want to just haveyou know nothing gets done for
the next five years and thensuddenly we pop up and say, hey,
everyone register.
You know it's building for me.
It's building for me.
It's important to get peopleinvolved to see the impact that
(10:36):
their little bit of differenceis making and hopefully try and
massively increase the number ofoverseas voters in future
elections.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
I was following the election, obviously on Facebook
and things like that, and Inoticed a lot more people
standing in lines, especially inthe UK, this year compared to
previous years.
Do you think you had somethingto do with that?
Speaker 2 (10:54):
From the feedback that a lot of people have said.
A lot of people have come backto me and said that they
wouldn't have known about it orthey wouldn't have bothered
voting if it wasn't for some ofthe content that I was putting
out.
So I'm really grateful that Ihave had some impact in
increasing the numbers and it's,you know, a lot of the, a lot
of a lot of the communicationtends to happen on the South
African Facebook groups and mostSouth African Facebook admins
(11:16):
do not allow politics orcharity-related posts.
So I think you know Istrategically have gone the
civic route and it's paid off,because if I was still part of
the DA board or if I was part ofany other party, we would not
have had, you know, theywouldn't have been able to post
on those groups, they wouldn'thave been able to reach people,
(11:38):
so they would have been limited,whereas a lot of the groups and
I was very surprised theyactually allowed my posts.
You know they actuallypublished my posts and one of
the biggest groups actually putat the start of the year.
They said we will only allowHaley posting about the
elections, which I was sograteful for that to be able to
reach more people.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Sure, that's great.
So what are some of the biggestchallenges you faced while
promoting change?
Speaker 2 (12:02):
I think apathy is probably the biggest one.
People think that the problemsare insurmountable and, yes,
there's a lot of work that needsto be done, but when I try to
explain to people, there'snothing in South Africa that is
completely broken and I thinkwe're just bombarded with
negative news all the time.
A lot of people have justswitched off, they've just got a
negative mindset and they don'tactually see.
(12:24):
And this is why it's soimportant for me to be doing
these trips, to be going backhome on the ground and sharing.
You know, going into Soweto,mlazi, mittels Plain, all these
kind of places, to actually, youknow, when I was in Soweto now,
just before the elections, whenI went in with Ayanda from
Baldwin South Africa, which isMusume Mani's party, and this
(12:44):
group I'm not kidding when theywere literally shouting at her
saying we don't want governmentgrants, we want jobs, we have
community projects that we wantto do, we want to improve our
standard of living, and they,you know, they showed us around
what they're trying to do intheir community.
Um, so, you know, I thinkthere's a sort of mentality
which I find from substanceabroad, which is very much a
they, their mentality, um, youknow, they are still voting for
(13:07):
the ruling party.
They this, they that, and youknow it's almost like, oh, they
just going to sit on grants andnot do anything.
But when you're actually on theground you know.
And then, after I was withAyanda, I went with a guy called
Didi Alcox.
His parents were activists backin the day and he's done a lot
to grow the township economy.
So he's got a book calledCasinomics.
So I listened to his book onAudible back in December,
(13:30):
contacted him.
He showed me around and then hewas actually here in London for
the business conference justbefore we voted.
And I'm now through thatbecause there's another speaker.
We're actually setting up aproject for South Africans
abroad to invest in businesses.
So there's a lot of businessesin South Africa where if they go
to a normal mainstream lenderor bank they can't get loans to
(13:52):
grow their business.
And while I was in Soweto theywere showing me literally every
single street, every second orthird house there's a business
running.
You know we went to a bakerywhere a guy had taken his
retirement and he was to offerhis pension and started a bakery
out of his garage.
He sells 300 loads a day.
His wife has now started abakery on the other side of town
there's a young lady who was 16.
(14:13):
She's 20 now.
She employs 10 staff and it'sall you know.
Hair and nail extensions, nailsand hair extensions and all
that kind of stuff, you know.
And they went and showed me awhole lot of businesses and I
said, is this all cash on hand?
And they said no, they have allthese apps for payment.
So there's a big misconceptionthat it's all cash in hand stuff
.
They're not paying taxes, butactually that's not the truth.
(14:33):
So I just see, you know, thattrip was really insightful
because there is so muchpotential in the country and
South Africa is knowninternationally for our, you
know, we have such a strongentrepreneurial skill set.
So for me, it's getting theSouth Africans abroad,
particularly through this oneproject that we're going to be
launching.
It's not just, you know,charitable giving abroad,
particularly through this oneproject that we're going to be
(14:54):
launching.
It's not just, you know,charitable giving.
You know you're not justthrowing your money into a pot
and hoping it has some impact.
It's investing, buying sharesin companies and helping them to
protect their jobs, to growjobs, and things like that.
So I think, yeah, for me it's ahuge challenge to change
people's perceptions.
And also on the voting side,there's a huge gap between the
(15:16):
civics, ordinary citizens, andthe politicians.
And by going and engaging andspending time personally with
all these political leaders, youknow and you know I'm sitting
in Herman Mishalba's house andyou know going into townships
and that with them to try andbring more of a human side,
because we often kind of putpoliticians up on a pedestal and
(15:36):
in a negative way, you know,like they're up on the ivory
tower and almost see them aslike robots in a way.
So yeah, for me it's reallyimportant to bridge that gap
between us and our politiciansas well.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Okay, so what do you see as the most critical areas
that need attention in SouthAfrica?
Speaker 2 (15:53):
So I think, in terms of protecting our democracy, we
need to protect the IEC.
So apparently, the IEC aremassively underfunded.
They've been underfunded for anumber of years and there's more
cuts to come.
So one project that I wouldlike to set up, sooner rather
than later, is lobbying for morefunding for the 2026 local
(16:15):
elections and also funding forthe 29 elections to make sure
that they have sufficientfunding to run.
I mean, it's a massiveoperation.
I don't think people actuallyrealize what goes into running
it and then and also making sureit stays independent.
You know it is a free and fairelection to protect our
democracy.
(16:36):
Voter education is a massiveneed and you know, on the voter
education, I want to take it astep further.
So a lot of the civic groups inSouth Africa get corporate
funding.
They can't be seen to beleaning any, which way.
They can only do a certainamount of the core civics of how
to register why.
You know why you should vote,that kind of thing.
But we need to go a stepfurther to bridge the gap.
(16:57):
So if you think about themajority who are on these grants
that don't have access to data,they don't, you know.
They're not like, actually, wecan just hop onto a website and
read a manifesto.
I find even people who canaccess manifestos don't bother
reading them.
You know how do you engage withparty representatives in your
area.
What questions should you beasking?
What critical thinking skillsdo you need to be able to
(17:19):
consider and work out?
How do I identify which partyI'm going to vote for?
Because people tend to voteblindly For a populist.
They vote for a person ratherthan understanding what the
party is about.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Is that got to do with lack of information?
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Yeah, lack of information, lack of access to
info.
And again last year I went intoMlazi in Durban with
Non-Kunoleko, who was the RyzenZanzi KZN chairperson, and it's
also just understanding the costinvolved.
So, again, going back to what Isaid earlier, with regards to
those at boards, if you'rehaving that they mentality like
(17:54):
they're still voting for theparty, like they deserve what
they get, kind of thing, reallyunderstanding the challenges in
reaching these people, and a lotof the guys that I talk to in
townships say we're hurtful ofthe ANC but we don't know who
else to vote for.
So building knowledge,education and building trust and
I see that as a really coreelement and that's a huge, huge
(18:15):
thing to try and tackle.
So when we went into Amlazi,you know we went in.
So there's another volunteer,myself and Nonko Lelikos.
We went in with an ex-cop asprivate security, so there's a
cost attached to that.
They took in food.
You know these guys areunemployed, so you know you need
a draw card to get them to comeand listen to you.
So they took it like burger,individual burger and chips.
There's a cost to that.
(18:35):
When I was at Mashaba's houselast year, michael Beaumont said
to me it costs between 100 to150 rand per person per outreach
.
You know, and if you'verealized in marketing, you know
you need to try and havemultiple touch points to reach
somebody, you know.
So it might be a couple ofin-person.
It might be a couple ofin-person, it might be radio
(18:59):
advertising.
So I went with Herman Machadoby my last day on this trip to
go and unveil this massivebillboard that he had on the M1
between Zobig and Soweto and Iasked him how much he spent and
he said he spent 120 millionrand on this year's campaign and
he got 1% of the vote.
So you have to understand justhow much it costs.
And it's not just about the TVadverts, it's the grassroots
(19:21):
being on the ground, beingvisible in the communities.
So for me it's a case of ifSouth Africans abroad want to
see change, they can getinvolved.
There's two elements there'shuman capital and financial
capital.
So human capital, with lobbyingprojects you know they might've
had businesses in South Africa,they understand the red tape
about investments and stuff theycan get involved with a bit of
(19:41):
research.
Or you know there's lots ofhuman capital types of ways that
people can get involved.
And then on the financial side,if you know, they say there's a
million.
I think that there's probablymore than that.
I think there's a million.
I think that there's probablymore than that.
I think there's closer to 2million South Africans abroad.
But let's go with a million.
Let's say, just in the UK alone, if we can take 10,000 people
(20:03):
each giving £5 a month, and wecan replicate that across the
top 10 countries where there'sloads of South Africans, that
could be a million rand justfrom the UK, it could be a
million dollars, it could be amillion.
I mean, sorry, a million randcoming from the UK, a million
rand coming from America orwherever you know.
And if we had, let's say, 10million rand per month coming in
(20:26):
from South Africans abroad, youknow, five pounds for a lot of
people is fairly doable.
You know, I understand, noteveryone has spare money,
particularly in the cost ofliving crisis that we're in, but
for a lot of people.
And what I want to do is I wantit to be very specific.
So, unlike a normal charitywhere you just throw your money
into a pot, you know you senddirect debit or make a donation,
I want it to be very specific.
So how I'm setting this up is,if you are wanting to contribute
(20:47):
towards the lobbying, the courtcase for online voting, then
that's where your money is goingto go to.
You know, I want to be veryspecific so people know where
exactly where their money isgoing and being very transparent
.
I think the charity sector youknow, npo sector has quite a bad
rep of people not really youknow how much of my one pound is
actually going to where itneeds to be and so, yeah, I'm
(21:16):
wanting to really make sure thatit's.
You know, every project that werun is very transparent and
accountable and, yeah, I justfeel like there's so many of us
abroad and the majority ofpeople I come across love Miss
SA and I just feel like wereally can make a significant
impact.
I don't know for sure how muchthat loss of citizenship
campaign cost.
I've been told loosely that itcost the DA more than a million
rand.
So a lot of people say, oh, theANC is screwed up.
(21:39):
This party or that party mustdo something about it.
So I say, well, are you amember of that party?
Do you donate to that party?
And most people turn around andsay, no, I don't want to be
associated to a party orpoliticians.
I'd rather give my money tocharity.
So I explain to them.
It's like putting a plaster onan infection You're giving
temporary release but you're notactually dealing with the cause
of it.
You know you feel warm andcushy inside that you've maybe
(22:01):
fed someone for a week Great,but then what?
So yeah, for me it is aboutmaking sure that these projects
are tangible and sustainable andso that people and again it's
about buying, building thattrust with the South and the
broad.
You know people give smallamounts that they could afford
to lose, if you know, but it's,it's they're giving small
(22:21):
amounts collectively.
That all adds up, then they cansee that the difference that
they're lots of small amountsmakes.
And then to try and rinse andrepeat and and grow the trust
and and grow them seeing whatthat difference can make and
again, building all towards 2029and 2034, because we know the
(22:47):
results of the overseas vote andif we can massively increase
the number of overseas voters bydoing all of these things, by
getting people's buy-in to seeactually the country isn't
broken, we can actually turnthis around and then hopefully
we can get more people voting inthe future elections.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Yeah, small change makes a big difference, right.
Yeah, the biggest problem withgiving to charity and I know
firsthand, especially in theStates you know there's a lot of
scams, so people are alwaysworried.
As soon as someone says, canyou give, they're going like
well, I've been scammed so manytimes and I mean talking from
(23:31):
personal experience, you know.
So, you know.
So I think the way you're doingit is good.
Let's just change directionhere a little bit.
Can you share a success storyor proud moment from your work
with Project Watershed?
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
I'm sure you have many.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
I've never done that before.
So Operation Watershed you knowI still need to get it
registered, but I mean, it'sreally just a combination of all
the stuff that's kind of led meto this point.
I think so during therepatriation we had quite a few
tragic and emotional cases.
So you know, one of them wasgetting a foreign national.
(24:08):
So Africa wouldn't allow.
When they started allowingrepatriation they wouldn't allow
foreign nationals in.
We had to fight them to allowpermanent residents, people with
permanent residency, in.
And there was a case of a momworking in the Netherlands whose
teenage son was knocked off amotorbike and killed.
So fighting to get her home,fighting to get people out of
(24:31):
the mandatory quarantine.
There was another chap who wasa foreign national.
He was a chef on a ship camepast Cape Town.
We got a colleague off,couldn't get him off.
Via various other people thatI'd helped, they put me in touch
with the HR for this particularcruise line and as soon as this
guy phoned me I just burst intotears.
So it was his wife and toddlerwere in a car accident in
(24:53):
Johannesburg and I'd spoken tohis wife because his wife had
contacted me to try and get herhusband home and because he was
in and out of the country, he'dnever done his permanent
residency and we I literallywhen I say I didn't sleep and I
cried for four days straight,I'm not kidding we knew that we
were sending him home to switchoff the life support of his wife
and child, but we couldn't tellhim that until he got there.
(25:15):
So you know things like that,things like, you know, reuniting
people, you know, I think,helping.
There was a mom that had movedhere but her kids are still back
in their stay Going.
You know again, just havingthese networks, like connecting
with the British HighCommissioner, you know, to get
them because they were obviouslyprioritising British citizens
and the study was here on a visaand we said, well, you can't
(25:36):
separate youngsters from theirmother, high-risk pregnancy.
We managed to get back to the UKHelping get people out of
Ukraine.
I mean, we were literally upuntil 30 o'clock at night crying
our eyes out, stressing becausewe couldn't get hold of people
and our government, althoughthey were running around telling
(25:57):
the media back home that theyhad this list of 200 people.
I was contacted, so theinvasion was on the Thursday.
I spoke to the ambassador thereon the Friday.
He called me Hopper 7, my timeon the Saturday morning saying
please can you help us findpeople?
And lots of politicking behindthe scenes, but yeah, managing
to help get people across theborders, getting South Africans
(26:18):
in the neighboring countries togo to the border to pick them up
and open their homes.
And I had one chap, singleincome, his mom's a domestic
worker, he was there on abursary and he was on the train
heading towards Poland and hesaid I have no idea how I'm
going to get home.
And I said you just worry aboutgetting yourself over that
border, we'll get you home.
So yeah, there's been so many,you know, real emotional, like
(26:42):
human circumstances that youknow and that's why I do this.
You know, I think quite oftenyou know, with governments it
tends to just be they're justnumbers, they don't realize the
impact of people's lives.
So, I think that human touch andthat human impact is what
drives me to do what I do.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Yeah, it's actually amazing to know that there's
people like you that areactually trying to make change
and actually doing somethingabout it, because, like a lot of
people say, oh, I wish I coulddo something, you know, maybe I
should do this, and then theynever do it.
You know, and it's quiteamazing that you're actually
doing it and I want to thank youfrom all the people you know
abroad as well as at home, forwhat you're doing.
(27:24):
It's truly amazing.
Tell me, hayley.
One last question what are yourhopes and visions for the
future of South Africa and howdo you see your role in
achieving that?
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Sure, I would love to see a country where the racial
issues don't feature and a lotof and again coming to, because
the majority of South Africansabroad are white.
There's quite a large diasporaof black South Africans here as
well, and Indian and others, butthe majority is white and it's
very much this.
When I speak to white SouthAfricans abroad, it's very much
this negative.
Oh, it's been 50 years, likethey need to get over it.
But then when I and Idistinctly recall a conversation
(28:07):
I had with I'm going back about10 years ago I was chatting to
some well-educated SouthAfricans abroad and they said to
me this was during the Zumayears and they were explaining
that they still vote A and C,even if they, you know, agreed
that Zuma wasn't great for thecountry or the party.
But they went further toexplain that it was very much an
(28:29):
emotional vote because theywere youngsters when their
parents were harassed for thedawn pass in the street or their
houses were raided.
And I've, you know, for me it'strying to get people to
understand the emotional damageand emotional and psychological
hurt is going to take decades.
Um, you know, and it's.
We can't just be flippant aboutit.
Um, we can't.
And again why I'm going intotownships and engaging with
(28:52):
people from all different walksof life to try and hopefully
bridge that gap a little bit.
And then, obviously, thesocioeconomic situation.
I think you know, obviously,this election.
I'm chuffed with the results ofthis election.
It's going to be a bumpy fiveyears ahead, but for me,
operation Watershed is anorganization that needs to
(29:13):
mirror what's happening in thepolitical landscape in the
country, because we need tobuild a strong civic
organization.
We need to hold the politicianswhoever those politicians are,
whatever party they're from, wehave to hold them to account on
setting up businesses, on accessto entrepreneurship programs
(29:37):
and things.
To grow our economy is reallykey as well.
To be able to provide peoplewith jobs, training, making
people job ready, is reallyimportant.
Education as well.
Obviously, there's crime andall the rest of it off the back
of that, but I think trulyhealing and growing our economy
(29:58):
and holding politicians toaccount is a good place to start
.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Great, great answer, hayley.
Is there some way people canget a hold of your website or
anything if they want to helpout and donate money and stuff?
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Yeah, so the website is operationwatershadecom.
It's lacking in content at themoment, while I'm in this
transition phase from voting tomore civic-related matters, but
all my social media handles, so,whether it's LinkedIn, facebook
, instagram, wherever TikTok,everything is Safa Hayley, so
S-A-F-A-H-A-Y-L-E-Y.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Yeah, it was amazing catching up with you and I
really want to speak to youagain in a couple of months and
see how things are progressing.
But thank you for the chat.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Thank you so much.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
If you're eager to explore more stories of South
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(31:06):
So until next time, check yourTuesday.
Welcome back to South Africans Abroad, a show for
expat South Africans and anyoneinterested in the experiences of
those who have made the moveoverseas.
Each episode we'll hear fromSouth Africans who have left the
country to pursue newopportunities, be with loved
ones or simply follow theirdreams.
We'll explore the challengesand triumphs of life as an expat
and the unique perspective thatcomes with being a South
(00:24):
African abroad, of life as anexpat and the unique perspective
that comes with being a SouthAfrican abroad.
I'm your host, warren Burley,an expat South African who, like
many, followed the dream ofworking overseas.
Whether you're an expatyourself or just curious about
the expat experience, join us aswe delve into the motivations,
struggles and joys of being aSouth African living overseas.
We have an inspiring guestjoining us today Hayley Rayhart.
(00:45):
Hayley is a remarkable SouthAfrican who made her way to
England, but her heart and soulremain deeply connected to her
homeland.
She's an unwavering advocatefor driving positive change in
South Africa, tirelesslyencouraging South Africans
abroad to use their talents andresources to uplift the country.
Hayley is a proud force behindProject Watershed, an initiative
that allows South Africans tocontribute towards building a
(01:07):
more prosperous and vibrantSouth Africa.
Get ready for an enlighteningconversation about her journey
mission and the incredible workshe's doing to make a difference
.
Hayley, how are you doing?
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Hi Warren, I'm great thanks.
How are you?
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Good Hayley, can you share your journey from South
Africa to England and whatmotivated the move?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
I've been in London now for 16 years.
It's gone really quickly.
So I moved over.
I was pregnant, newly married.
The plan was to come over for,say, five years.
My ex would have come over on aspousal visa, do the work
travel thing, get the passportand then return back to SA and
settle down and have a family.
But that didn't pan out.
(01:43):
That way Life never does.
And yeah, so it wasn't.
You know, I never left SAbecause of the state of the
country.
It was more just.
I have a British passport wewanted to explore.
My ex's parents were over hereand I've got extended family
over here.
So yeah, it was just young andwhy not?
And then it was after beinghere for a few years, because I
(02:08):
was still busy studying as wellthrough UNISA, and then I had
been over here for, I think,about two or three years and I
was sort of questioning what ismy purpose in life and went to
on Facebook to go and find someSouth African friends, came
across this group that calledthemselves the BA abroad and
this other chap.
They were holding a protestoutside the South Africa High
Commission about the no tosecrecy bill.
So I just thought, oh, what agreat way to go and make some
(02:30):
South African friends, didn'tthink anything about the
politics involved and that wasmy kind of turning moment, or
light bulb or aha moment, andliterally that was December 2011
.
And since then I've just beenvery much involved with the
global South African community.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
So tell me what inspired you to become an
advocate for driving change inSouth Africa.
What brought that on?
Speaker 2 (02:51):
I think through.
So when I got involved with theDA abroad and so that was the
end of 2011, going into 2012.
And then, just learning aboutoverseas voting got involved in
the 2014 elections out-openedoverseas voting.
Got involved in the 2014elections, I initiated the loss
of citizenship campaign, whichthe DA it's taken 10 years it's
still not over the line yet, butit will hopefully be by the end
(03:12):
of this year which will changethe legislation about people
losing their citizenship whenthey acquire foreign citizenship
.
And I've just noticed throughall the stuff that I've done.
You know, in the early years,it was just a case of, instead
of being someone standing aroundthe bar complaining that South
Africa is just going to becomeanother Zimbabwe, I was like,
well, I am someone that can dosomething and I have a voice and
(03:32):
I seem to have this skill ofnetworking.
And, yeah, just through all thebits and bobs that I got
involved with the UK-basedmid-bank SA charity, golf Day,
the Chamber of Commerce I endedup resigning from the DA abroad.
I ended up over the last fouryears liaising with a number of
opposition party leaders, goingback home, going into townships
(03:55):
and things, and I've justdabbled through all sorts of you
know, when Ramaphosa closedSouth African airspace back in
2020, I started the well.
We called it a home away fromhome for those stranded abroad,
which was about 22,000 people.
We dealt with all sorts ofsituations and then we also had
people stuck in South Africa.
So with Project Lisa, liketoday, say that we had to
(04:16):
actually lobby and straightenhome estates with urgent high
court action and through allthese little bits and pieces
that I've just done, I meanrandom things that I've done
helping get South Africans outof Ukraine, helping our students
in Russia and mainly over thelast four years, and engaging
with South Africans.
I do a lot of home affairs.
A lot of people come to me forhome affairs issues as well, and
I do all of this off my ownback.
(04:37):
I don't run a business off ofthis, and it's all the little
bits that I've learned andpicked up on has just made me
realize everything.
The majority, the overwhelmingmajority, of South Africans
abroad love South Africa, missSouth Africa, would like to see
it succeed.
Um, a lot of them would like tomove back or at least know that
when they go home on holidaysit's, you know, safer and better
(04:57):
, better for family and friendsback home.
So I, my long-term goal is tomove back home and I thought
well, instead of me just tryingto do my little bit, why don't I
try to rope everybody in andget lots of people all
contributing in different ways?
And that's why, with OperationWatershed, it's a holistic thing
, because if I just did onecharity or one civic thing,
focusing on one particularelement, I'd reach a certain
(05:21):
number of people, but I wouldn'treach everyone abroad.
So my goal is to try and reachas many of the one plus million
abroad and trying to havesomething for everyone, whether
it is IEC voting related matters, whether it's lobbying and
advocacy, whether it's businessand entrepreneurship or civic
and charity or protectingindependent media.
There's a whole host of thingsthat I'm talking to people about
(05:41):
setting projects up for and, atthe end of the day, every
single one of us has somethingwe can contribute.
It might be five minutes a week,it might be an hour a week, it
might be ad hoc, but everysingle one of us can and a lot
of people want to contribute.
They just don't know how andthey feel frustrated and they
feel like, well, what's my youknow, what's my one little bit
going to actually do and what'smy one little bit going to
(06:02):
actually do.
And when I racked up all thestuff that I've done and I
explain, I'm not a high-flyingCEO or corporate person, I'm not
a career politician, I am justan ordinary South African I've
managed to do all of this stuff.
I've managed to network andhelp.
You know now, it certainlyhasn't been on my own.
It's been, you know, involvinga lot of other people as well,
but together we can drivesignificant impact and change on
(06:22):
the ground where it's neededmost back home.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
So a hell of a lot of questions.
After all that, my firstquestion is do you have a
full-time job and you're doingthis on the side, or is this
your full-time job?
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Yeah, so I'm a mortgage and protection advisor
here in the UK.
A lot of my clients are SouthAfricans, which is great.
South Africans love supportingeach other, so always word of
mouth referrals.
So, yeah, that's what pays thebills.
And then I've also set up astaffer works which is a
business directory for thesuffragans here in the uk.
Um, again, could be likesupporting each other um and not
(06:53):
everyone is interested in likethe stuff back home, you know,
but people still want to be partof the certain community here,
yeah, and then, um, yeah, so theoperation watershed and and all
of the core stuff and stuffthat I do is basically the
reason why I don't sleep.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Yeah, I was going to say where do you get time for
all that?
Speaker 2 (07:12):
I'm fortunate.
I work, I'm self-employed, butI registered under a company and
my boss is actually SouthAfrican.
So as long as I'm placingbusiness, as long as I'm doing
what I need to do, I'm quitefortunate that I can squeeze in
a call here, an email there tomake things happen.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Let's just talk about your interest in helping people
that have lost theircitizenship, because I, for one,
have lost my citizenship.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
So how are you helping there and how do you
expect change to happen?
Speaker 2 (07:40):
So it's just something that I noticed in the
lead up to the 2014 elections.
So you couldn't register online.
You had to go into your nearestforeign mission to go register
and so many people were emailingus saying I went to go register
, I've been told I've lost mycitizenship.
So I did some homework, put itforward as a DA broad campaign.
They took it to the legal team,they took it to the
(08:02):
constitutional court and losttwice.
It was 2018 and 2021.
And it got put on a bit of aback burner because of the 2016
municipal elections.
But then they took it to theSupreme Court of Appeal in
February I think it was of lastyear.
The Supreme Court of Appealruled in the DA's favour middle
of last year and we thought thatwas done and dusted.
(08:24):
But we're now waiting for theConstitutional Court to approve
the SCA's ruling.
There was some movement on itin March.
Sorry, but apparently it'sliterally just administrative
and I have been told that homeSCAs aren't going to be fighting
the issue.
So unfortunately it is just anadministrative.
We just have to sit and wait,but hopefully at some point in
(08:47):
the next few months it will beover the line and then what
should happen is that Section6-1-A, which is the piece of
legislation where it says thatif you are 18 or older and you
formally and voluntarily applyfor a foreign citizenship
without getting the retentionletter to keep you South African
, you automatically lose yourSouth African.
(09:07):
So once that falls away, thenthere is currently you know so
the current way to get yourcitizenship back.
There is reinstatement.
However, you would have, undercurrent rules, you'd have to
move back to South Africa eitherfor 12 consecutive months if
you were born there, or for fiveyears if you were not born
there, and you'd have to provethat and then apply.
So that would fall away.
The rules have changed andadministrative submission papers
(09:33):
and and you can reclaim yourcitizenship.
Obviously, not everyone can,because some countries don't
allow dual, multiple citizenship, and so it would only be for
those two countries that wherethey are happy for you to have
another, another citizenship.
But I find you know it's theguys that have lost their
citizenship that I find are like, actually the most passionate
and they're the most angry thatthey haven't been able to vote.
(09:53):
So hopefully, by that, as wellas some electoral lobbying for
more voting stations, onlinevoting being able to use, once
this piece of legislation isdealt with.
Then I want to lobby for peopleto be able to use a passport or
an ID, because no one uses anID book outside of South Africa.
So there would have been somany more people who have their
(10:15):
passports but didn't have an IDbook who could have voted in the
selection.
So it's all just little stepsto try and drive that change,
drive the engagement.
But I don't want to just haveyou know nothing gets done for
the next five years and thensuddenly we pop up and say, hey,
everyone register.
You know it's building for me.
It's building for me.
It's important to get peopleinvolved to see the impact that
(10:36):
their little bit of differenceis making and hopefully try and
massively increase the number ofoverseas voters in future
elections.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
I was following the election, obviously on Facebook
and things like that, and Inoticed a lot more people
standing in lines, especially inthe UK, this year compared to
previous years.
Do you think you had somethingto do with that?
Speaker 2 (10:54):
From the feedback that a lot of people have said.
A lot of people have come backto me and said that they
wouldn't have known about it orthey wouldn't have bothered
voting if it wasn't for some ofthe content that I was putting
out.
So I'm really grateful that Ihave had some impact in
increasing the numbers and it's,you know, a lot of the, a lot
of a lot of the communicationtends to happen on the South
African Facebook groups and mostSouth African Facebook admins
(11:16):
do not allow politics orcharity-related posts.
So I think you know Istrategically have gone the
civic route and it's paid off,because if I was still part of
the DA board or if I was part ofany other party, we would not
have had, you know, theywouldn't have been able to post
on those groups, they wouldn'thave been able to reach people,
(11:38):
so they would have been limited,whereas a lot of the groups and
I was very surprised theyactually allowed my posts.
You know they actuallypublished my posts and one of
the biggest groups actually putat the start of the year.
They said we will only allowHaley posting about the
elections, which I was sograteful for that to be able to
reach more people.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Sure, that's great.
So what are some of the biggestchallenges you faced while
promoting change?
Speaker 2 (12:02):
I think apathy is probably the biggest one.
People think that the problemsare insurmountable and, yes,
there's a lot of work that needsto be done, but when I try to
explain to people, there'snothing in South Africa that is
completely broken and I thinkwe're just bombarded with
negative news all the time.
A lot of people have justswitched off, they've just got a
negative mindset and they don'tactually see.
(12:24):
And this is why it's soimportant for me to be doing
these trips, to be going backhome on the ground and sharing.
You know, going into Soweto,mlazi, mittels Plain, all these
kind of places, to actually, youknow, when I was in Soweto now,
just before the elections, whenI went in with Ayanda from
Baldwin South Africa, which isMusume Mani's party, and this
(12:44):
group I'm not kidding when theywere literally shouting at her
saying we don't want governmentgrants, we want jobs, we have
community projects that we wantto do, we want to improve our
standard of living, and they,you know, they showed us around
what they're trying to do intheir community.
Um, so, you know, I thinkthere's a sort of mentality
which I find from substanceabroad, which is very much a
they, their mentality, um, youknow, they are still voting for
(13:07):
the ruling party.
They this, they that, and youknow it's almost like, oh, they
just going to sit on grants andnot do anything.
But when you're actually on theground you know.
And then, after I was withAyanda, I went with a guy called
Didi Alcox.
His parents were activists backin the day and he's done a lot
to grow the township economy.
So he's got a book calledCasinomics.
So I listened to his book onAudible back in December,
(13:30):
contacted him.
He showed me around and then hewas actually here in London for
the business conference justbefore we voted.
And I'm now through thatbecause there's another speaker.
We're actually setting up aproject for South Africans
abroad to invest in businesses.
So there's a lot of businessesin South Africa where if they go
to a normal mainstream lenderor bank they can't get loans to
(13:52):
grow their business.
And while I was in Soweto theywere showing me literally every
single street, every second orthird house there's a business
running.
You know we went to a bakerywhere a guy had taken his
retirement and he was to offerhis pension and started a bakery
out of his garage.
He sells 300 loads a day.
His wife has now started abakery on the other side of town
there's a young lady who was 16.
(14:13):
She's 20 now.
She employs 10 staff and it'sall you know.
Hair and nail extensions, nailsand hair extensions and all
that kind of stuff, you know.
And they went and showed me awhole lot of businesses and I
said, is this all cash on hand?
And they said no, they have allthese apps for payment.
So there's a big misconceptionthat it's all cash in hand stuff
.
They're not paying taxes, butactually that's not the truth.
(14:33):
So I just see, you know, thattrip was really insightful
because there is so muchpotential in the country and
South Africa is knowninternationally for our, you
know, we have such a strongentrepreneurial skill set.
So for me, it's getting theSouth Africans abroad,
particularly through this oneproject that we're going to be
launching.
It's not just, you know,charitable giving abroad,
particularly through this oneproject that we're going to be
(14:54):
launching.
It's not just, you know,charitable giving.
You know you're not justthrowing your money into a pot
and hoping it has some impact.
It's investing, buying sharesin companies and helping them to
protect their jobs, to growjobs, and things like that.
So I think, yeah, for me it's ahuge challenge to change
people's perceptions.
And also on the voting side,there's a huge gap between the
(15:16):
civics, ordinary citizens, andthe politicians.
And by going and engaging andspending time personally with
all these political leaders, youknow and you know I'm sitting
in Herman Mishalba's house andyou know going into townships
and that with them to try andbring more of a human side,
because we often kind of putpoliticians up on a pedestal and
(15:36):
in a negative way, you know,like they're up on the ivory
tower and almost see them aslike robots in a way.
So yeah, for me it's reallyimportant to bridge that gap
between us and our politiciansas well.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Okay, so what do you see as the most critical areas
that need attention in SouthAfrica?
Speaker 2 (15:53):
So I think, in terms of protecting our democracy, we
need to protect the IEC.
So apparently, the IEC aremassively underfunded.
They've been underfunded for anumber of years and there's more
cuts to come.
So one project that I wouldlike to set up, sooner rather
than later, is lobbying for morefunding for the 2026 local
(16:15):
elections and also funding forthe 29 elections to make sure
that they have sufficientfunding to run.
I mean, it's a massiveoperation.
I don't think people actuallyrealize what goes into running
it and then and also making sureit stays independent.
You know it is a free and fairelection to protect our
democracy.
(16:36):
Voter education is a massiveneed and you know, on the voter
education, I want to take it astep further.
So a lot of the civic groups inSouth Africa get corporate
funding.
They can't be seen to beleaning any, which way.
They can only do a certainamount of the core civics of how
to register why.
You know why you should vote,that kind of thing.
But we need to go a stepfurther to bridge the gap.
(16:57):
So if you think about themajority who are on these grants
that don't have access to data,they don't, you know.
They're not like, actually, wecan just hop onto a website and
read a manifesto.
I find even people who canaccess manifestos don't bother
reading them.
You know how do you engage withparty representatives in your
area.
What questions should you beasking?
What critical thinking skillsdo you need to be able to
(17:19):
consider and work out?
How do I identify which partyI'm going to vote for?
Because people tend to voteblindly For a populist.
They vote for a person ratherthan understanding what the
party is about.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Is that got to do with lack of information?
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Yeah, lack of information, lack of access to
info.
And again last year I went intoMlazi in Durban with
Non-Kunoleko, who was the RyzenZanzi KZN chairperson, and it's
also just understanding the costinvolved.
So, again, going back to what Isaid earlier, with regards to
those at boards, if you'rehaving that they mentality like
(17:54):
they're still voting for theparty, like they deserve what
they get, kind of thing, reallyunderstanding the challenges in
reaching these people, and a lotof the guys that I talk to in
townships say we're hurtful ofthe ANC but we don't know who
else to vote for.
So building knowledge,education and building trust and
I see that as a really coreelement and that's a huge, huge
(18:15):
thing to try and tackle.
So when we went into Amlazi,you know we went in.
So there's another volunteer,myself and Nonko Lelikos.
We went in with an ex-cop asprivate security, so there's a
cost attached to that.
They took in food.
You know these guys areunemployed, so you know you need
a draw card to get them to comeand listen to you.
So they took it like burger,individual burger and chips.
There's a cost to that.
(18:35):
When I was at Mashaba's houselast year, michael Beaumont said
to me it costs between 100 to150 rand per person per outreach
.
You know, and if you'verealized in marketing, you know
you need to try and havemultiple touch points to reach
somebody, you know.
So it might be a couple ofin-person.
It might be a couple ofin-person, it might be radio
(18:59):
advertising.
So I went with Herman Machadoby my last day on this trip to
go and unveil this massivebillboard that he had on the M1
between Zobig and Soweto and Iasked him how much he spent and
he said he spent 120 millionrand on this year's campaign and
he got 1% of the vote.
So you have to understand justhow much it costs.
And it's not just about the TVadverts, it's the grassroots
(19:21):
being on the ground, beingvisible in the communities.
So for me it's a case of ifSouth Africans abroad want to
see change, they can getinvolved.
There's two elements there'shuman capital and financial
capital.
So human capital, with lobbyingprojects you know they might've
had businesses in South Africa,they understand the red tape
about investments and stuff theycan get involved with a bit of
(19:41):
research.
Or you know there's lots ofhuman capital types of ways that
people can get involved.
And then on the financial side,if you know, they say there's a
million.
I think that there's probablymore than that.
I think there's a million.
I think that there's probablymore than that.
I think there's closer to 2million South Africans abroad.
But let's go with a million.
Let's say, just in the UK alone, if we can take 10,000 people
(20:03):
each giving £5 a month, and wecan replicate that across the
top 10 countries where there'sloads of South Africans, that
could be a million rand justfrom the UK, it could be a
million dollars, it could be amillion.
I mean, sorry, a million randcoming from the UK, a million
rand coming from America orwherever you know.
And if we had, let's say, 10million rand per month coming in
(20:26):
from South Africans abroad, youknow, five pounds for a lot of
people is fairly doable.
You know, I understand, noteveryone has spare money,
particularly in the cost ofliving crisis that we're in, but
for a lot of people.
And what I want to do is I wantit to be very specific.
So, unlike a normal charitywhere you just throw your money
into a pot, you know you senddirect debit or make a donation,
I want it to be very specific.
So how I'm setting this up is,if you are wanting to contribute
(20:47):
towards the lobbying, the courtcase for online voting, then
that's where your money is goingto go to.
You know, I want to be veryspecific so people know where
exactly where their money isgoing and being very transparent
.
I think the charity sector youknow, npo sector has quite a bad
rep of people not really youknow how much of my one pound is
actually going to where itneeds to be and so, yeah, I'm
(21:16):
wanting to really make sure thatit's.
You know, every project that werun is very transparent and
accountable and, yeah, I justfeel like there's so many of us
abroad and the majority ofpeople I come across love Miss
SA and I just feel like wereally can make a significant
impact.
I don't know for sure how muchthat loss of citizenship
campaign cost.
I've been told loosely that itcost the DA more than a million
rand.
So a lot of people say, oh, theANC is screwed up.
(21:39):
This party or that party mustdo something about it.
So I say, well, are you amember of that party?
Do you donate to that party?
And most people turn around andsay, no, I don't want to be
associated to a party orpoliticians.
I'd rather give my money tocharity.
So I explain to them.
It's like putting a plaster onan infection You're giving
temporary release but you're notactually dealing with the cause
of it.
You know you feel warm andcushy inside that you've maybe
(22:01):
fed someone for a week Great,but then what?
So yeah, for me it is aboutmaking sure that these projects
are tangible and sustainable andso that people and again it's
about buying, building thattrust with the South and the
broad.
You know people give smallamounts that they could afford
to lose, if you know, but it's,it's they're giving small
(22:21):
amounts collectively.
That all adds up, then they cansee that the difference that
they're lots of small amountsmakes.
And then to try and rinse andrepeat and and grow the trust
and and grow them seeing whatthat difference can make and
again, building all towards 2029and 2034, because we know the
(22:47):
results of the overseas vote andif we can massively increase
the number of overseas voters bydoing all of these things, by
getting people's buy-in to seeactually the country isn't
broken, we can actually turnthis around and then hopefully
we can get more people voting inthe future elections.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Yeah, small change makes a big difference, right.
Yeah, the biggest problem withgiving to charity and I know
firsthand, especially in theStates you know there's a lot of
scams, so people are alwaysworried.
As soon as someone says, canyou give, they're going like
well, I've been scammed so manytimes and I mean talking from
(23:31):
personal experience, you know.
So, you know.
So I think the way you're doingit is good.
Let's just change directionhere a little bit.
Can you share a success storyor proud moment from your work
with Project Watershed?
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
I'm sure you have many.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
I've never done that before.
So Operation Watershed you knowI still need to get it
registered, but I mean, it'sreally just a combination of all
the stuff that's kind of led meto this point.
I think so during therepatriation we had quite a few
tragic and emotional cases.
So you know, one of them wasgetting a foreign national.
(24:08):
So Africa wouldn't allow.
When they started allowingrepatriation they wouldn't allow
foreign nationals in.
We had to fight them to allowpermanent residents, people with
permanent residency, in.
And there was a case of a momworking in the Netherlands whose
teenage son was knocked off amotorbike and killed.
So fighting to get her home,fighting to get people out of
(24:31):
the mandatory quarantine.
There was another chap who wasa foreign national.
He was a chef on a ship camepast Cape Town.
We got a colleague off,couldn't get him off.
Via various other people thatI'd helped, they put me in touch
with the HR for this particularcruise line and as soon as this
guy phoned me I just burst intotears.
So it was his wife and toddlerwere in a car accident in
(24:53):
Johannesburg and I'd spoken tohis wife because his wife had
contacted me to try and get herhusband home and because he was
in and out of the country, he'dnever done his permanent
residency and we I literallywhen I say I didn't sleep and I
cried for four days straight,I'm not kidding we knew that we
were sending him home to switchoff the life support of his wife
and child, but we couldn't tellhim that until he got there.
(25:15):
So you know things like that,things like, you know, reuniting
people, you know, I think,helping.
There was a mom that had movedhere but her kids are still back
in their stay Going.
You know again, just havingthese networks, like connecting
with the British HighCommissioner, you know, to get
them because they were obviouslyprioritising British citizens
and the study was here on a visaand we said, well, you can't
(25:36):
separate youngsters from theirmother, high-risk pregnancy.
We managed to get back to the UKHelping get people out of
Ukraine.
I mean, we were literally upuntil 30 o'clock at night crying
our eyes out, stressing becausewe couldn't get hold of people
and our government, althoughthey were running around telling
(25:57):
the media back home that theyhad this list of 200 people.
I was contacted, so theinvasion was on the Thursday.
I spoke to the ambassador thereon the Friday.
He called me Hopper 7, my timeon the Saturday morning saying
please can you help us findpeople?
And lots of politicking behindthe scenes, but yeah, managing
to help get people across theborders, getting South Africans
(26:18):
in the neighboring countries togo to the border to pick them up
and open their homes.
And I had one chap, singleincome, his mom's a domestic
worker, he was there on abursary and he was on the train
heading towards Poland and hesaid I have no idea how I'm
going to get home.
And I said you just worry aboutgetting yourself over that
border, we'll get you home.
So yeah, there's been so many,you know, real emotional, like
(26:42):
human circumstances that youknow and that's why I do this.
You know, I think quite oftenyou know, with governments it
tends to just be they're justnumbers, they don't realize the
impact of people's lives.
So, I think that human touch andthat human impact is what
drives me to do what I do.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Yeah, it's actually amazing to know that there's
people like you that areactually trying to make change
and actually doing somethingabout it, because, like a lot of
people say, oh, I wish I coulddo something, you know, maybe I
should do this, and then theynever do it.
You know, and it's quiteamazing that you're actually
doing it and I want to thank youfrom all the people you know
abroad as well as at home, forwhat you're doing.
(27:24):
It's truly amazing.
Tell me, hayley.
One last question what are yourhopes and visions for the
future of South Africa and howdo you see your role in
achieving that?
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Sure, I would love to see a country where the racial
issues don't feature and a lotof and again coming to, because
the majority of South Africansabroad are white.
There's quite a large diasporaof black South Africans here as
well, and Indian and others, butthe majority is white and it's
very much this.
When I speak to white SouthAfricans abroad, it's very much
this negative.
Oh, it's been 50 years, likethey need to get over it.
But then when I and Idistinctly recall a conversation
(28:07):
I had with I'm going back about10 years ago I was chatting to
some well-educated SouthAfricans abroad and they said to
me this was during the Zumayears and they were explaining
that they still vote A and C,even if they, you know, agreed
that Zuma wasn't great for thecountry or the party.
But they went further toexplain that it was very much an
(28:29):
emotional vote because theywere youngsters when their
parents were harassed for thedawn pass in the street or their
houses were raided.
And I've, you know, for me it'strying to get people to
understand the emotional damageand emotional and psychological
hurt is going to take decades.
Um, you know, and it's.
We can't just be flippant aboutit.
Um, we can't.
And again why I'm going intotownships and engaging with
(28:52):
people from all different walksof life to try and hopefully
bridge that gap a little bit.
And then, obviously, thesocioeconomic situation.
I think you know, obviously,this election.
I'm chuffed with the results ofthis election.
It's going to be a bumpy fiveyears ahead, but for me,
operation Watershed is anorganization that needs to
(29:13):
mirror what's happening in thepolitical landscape in the
country, because we need tobuild a strong civic
organization.
We need to hold the politicianswhoever those politicians are,
whatever party they're from, wehave to hold them to account on
setting up businesses, on accessto entrepreneurship programs
(29:37):
and things.
To grow our economy is reallykey as well.
To be able to provide peoplewith jobs, training, making
people job ready, is reallyimportant.
Education as well.
Obviously, there's crime andall the rest of it off the back
of that, but I think trulyhealing and growing our economy
(29:58):
and holding politicians toaccount is a good place to start
.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Great, great answer, hayley.
Is there some way people canget a hold of your website or
anything if they want to helpout and donate money and stuff?
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Yeah, so the website is operationwatershadecom.
It's lacking in content at themoment, while I'm in this
transition phase from voting tomore civic-related matters, but
all my social media handles, so,whether it's LinkedIn, facebook
, instagram, wherever TikTok,everything is Safa Hayley, so
S-A-F-A-H-A-Y-L-E-Y.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Yeah, it was amazing catching up with you and I
really want to speak to youagain in a couple of months and
see how things are progressing.
But thank you for the chat.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Thank you so much.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
If you're eager to explore more stories of South
Africans abroad, be sure to hitthat subscribe button so you
never miss a moment Forexclusive updates, discussions
and a chance to connect withfellow listeners.
Be sure to join our vibrantcommunity on Facebook.
Just search for South AfricansAbroad Podcast and become part
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(31:06):
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