March 26, 2024 • 26 mins
Embarking on a new chapter across the ocean, Nicole Woodstock shares her colorful journey from the bustling world of South African advertising to the sunny shores of Florida, where motherhood and entrepreneurship await. With wit and wisdom, she peels back the layers of the American dream, revealing the complexities of immigration, the decisions that steered her family from Europe to the U.S., and the intricate dance of cultural adaptation. Nicole's tale is not just one of change, but a lesson in resilience, as she navigates the nuances of a new market with her business while holding onto the essence of her South African roots.
Our conversation with Nicole is a vibrant tapestry of experiences, blending the excitement of American sports prospects for her children, with the sobering realities of a healthcare system worlds away from what she knew. We traverse the amusing twists of language that bewilder and delight, and explore the value of educational opportunities that America offers her family. Join us for this episode that is as much about the joys and pitfalls of expatriate life as it is about the power of community, and don't forget to connect with fellow listeners in our South Africans Abroad Podcast Facebook group to keep the conversation going.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Warren Burley (00:03):
Welcome back to South Africans Abroad a show for
expat South Africans and anyoneinterested in the experiences
of those who have made the moveoverseas.
In e Each episode we'll hearfrom South Africans who have
left the country to pursue newopportunities, be with loved
ones, or simply follow theirdreams.
We'll explore the challengesand triumphs of life as an expat
and the unique perspective thatcomes with being a South
(00:25):
African abroad.
I'm your host, warren Burley,an expat South African who, like
many, followed the dream ofworking overseas.
Whether you're an expatyourself or just curious about
the expat experience, join us aswe delve into the motivations,
struggles, and joys of being aSouth African living overseas.
Thanks for joining us.
Today we're going to Florida tospeak with Nicole Wittstock.
(00:47):
Nicole is a mother, an artist,and an entrepreneur from
Johannesburg .
Nicole, how are you doing?
Hey, warren, good, and you,yeah, I'm good.
Thanks.
Do you want to just introduceyourself and tell our listeners
a little bit about you, hey?
Nicole Wittstock (00:58):
everyone, my name is Nicole.
I am a mother, a wife,entrepreneur and, most foremost,
an artist.
Warren Burley (01:07):
Okay, great.
When we first met, you were inadvertising.
What brought on the change?
Nicole Wittstock (01:12):
It was a great industry to be in when I was
younger, but when I decided thatI wanted to have a family, it
just wasn't possible.
I couldn't fall pregnant.
The stress levels were too high, the demands were too high,
there was no free time.
So I thought, okay, I've givenmy all to this industry, I've
had my fun, so it's now time tomove on.
Warren Burley (01:32):
Okay, so how long have you been in the States now
?
Nicole Wittstock (01:35):
Just over two years.
Warren Burley (01:37):
Everywhere you could have gone in the world.
Why America?
Nicole Wittstock (01:40):
I think it's living the American dream.
You know, we could have easilygone over to Europe.
I've got an Italian passport sowe could have gone to the UK,
we could have gone to Europe,but there's just nothing quite
as empowering as getting intothe States.
You know, nobody can.
It's this unattainable dreamand to be able to do that was
(02:01):
quite incredible actually.
Warren Burley (02:02):
Okay, so let's just talk about that for a
second.
So how difficult was it for youto get into the States?
Nicole Wittstock (02:08):
Because I mean it's not an easy thing, right
it was a mammoth task.
Yeah, no, it was mammoth.
It's still not a done deal.
It's a constant uphill slug.
It's expensive, it's at timessoul-destroying, but also super
(02:29):
rewarding.
Every now and then, Keith and Imy husband and I look at each
other and we're like we're inAmerica.
Sometimes it's really surreal.
Warren Burley (02:45):
what is your visa status at the moment?
Nicole Wittstock (02:47):
So we came over on an L1 visa.
So Keith did a startup businessof his business in South Africa
.
We brought it across the side.
So it's an executive transferL1 visa.
Myself and the kids are on theL2, which piggyback off the l1
right um, yeah, so it's.
(03:08):
It's quite an executive visa.
It's one of the more expensiveones to do, unless you do the
straight buyout, which you know.
Unless you've got a little bitof cash hanging around, that's
not an option for everyone yeahum, yeah, so it's an executive
one.
Warren Burley (03:37):
Just tell everyone what Keith does.
Nicole Wittstock (03:40):
So he's got an engineering business in South
Africa.
So he's got an engineeringbusiness in South Africa.
He does shelving, palletracking, expandable security
gates, adjustable louver awnings.
We also dabble in building andrental.
So he builds our properties, Imanage the rentals.
I still do that from the side.
Warren Burley (03:58):
Yeah.
Nicole Wittstock (03:59):
And we found that the best option for us to
bring across and easiest wasshelving and overhead ceiling
racks, because everybody needsstorage to the side.
I can't actually believe howpeople use their garages as
storage space, not as a parkingspace for their vehicles, yep.
Warren Burley (04:16):
And they all sit outside their garages like all
day, that's bizarre.
Nicole Wittstock (04:20):
That's bizarre , but anyway it's fine.
We've got to fit into a newknow, a new norm, I suppose.
Warren Burley (04:26):
Yeah, because I was going to say, like security
gates and stuff like that, Imean that can't be that big.
I mean I'm sure it's getting toa point now where it's starting
to, you know, pick on, butthere can't be much business for
that actually.
Nicole Wittstock (04:38):
Yeah, we've never.
We haven't actuallyinvestigated that route at all,
because it's not a crime-riddenplace, especially not where we
are in Lake Mary Florida.
You know it's non-existent.
There's no walls, there's nosecurity on the windows and
doors, so it's not needed.
Warren Burley (04:57):
And how did you just talking about security and
stuff like that, how did youfind that?
Like when you first arrivedhere, because I was in shock
there's no walls, there's nosecurity gates.
Nicole Wittstock (05:06):
I felt very unsafe and vulnerable.
Actually, it took me a goodlong while to adjust to that
because we all know, especiallyfrom Joburg, you live behind
these high walls and electricfence and security bars and
beams and then you come here andthere's nothing and it's dark
outside and you're like there'sno walls, there's nothing
(05:26):
protecting us and it's quiet andit's quiet.
Well, I don't know about quiet,there's fire engines and police
sirens going all the time, butit's.
It's just so dramatic theydeployed for a cat that's stuck
up in a tree you know?
Warren Burley (05:41):
yeah, exactly, and the whole world must stop.
Yeah, don't you find it crazy?
Also, like, like, when a fireengine or something comes down
the road, everyone just pullsover to the side of the road.
Nicole Wittstock (05:49):
It's incredible, like it's a party
trick, if we have visitors overfrom Joburg.
Warren Burley (05:55):
Yeah.
Nicole Wittstock (05:56):
The courtesy of other drivers.
So everybody's like, oh, theI-4, it's so crazy and it's
terrible to drive on, butthere's four lanes and people
stick to those four lanes.
There's two shoulders on eitherside and if you indicate,
people slow down and let you in.
You know South Africa, youindicate and people speed up to
close the gap.
So it's just totally differentyeah, no, it is crazy.
Warren Burley (06:19):
Did you explore the whole of America or did you
just go straight?
Nicole Wittstock (06:22):
oh, we want to go to Florida so our process
was was okay, we're going to theUS, great.
Then we looked at all thedifferent states and we're like
we don't want cold, we don'twant to be shoveling snow, we
act of outdoor people, so wedon't want to be restricted to
the house.
That was another thing why wedidn't go to Europe, because we
don't want to have to deal withthe cold.
(06:42):
So that narrowed it down.
And then also the taxes, so youdon't get personal tax and the
taxes were a big criteria for us.
So it kind of narrowed it downto Texas and Florida.
Then we were like okay, we'restarting up a business.
Texas is very vast, so to startsomething and be able to spread
(07:08):
it out would take a lot moretime.
So that narrowed it down toFlorida.
Then I wanted to be on thecoastline but Keith works with
steel so we were like, okay, itcan't be coast.
So central Florida.
Then it was what are the goodschool zones?
Because obviously the kids aregoing to public schools.
And that narrowed it down to itwas Lake Mary, avido and Lake
Nona.
Keith managed to get warehousespace in Longwood, so Lake Mary
(07:31):
it was.
That was basically our process.
Warren Burley (07:34):
How true is it?
Because everybody sayseverything in Florida is trying
to kill you.
Nicole Wittstock (07:37):
Freaking hell, and it's true.
So, as in South Africa, we'vegot amazingly scary creatures,
but they'll kill you quickly,you know.
And they're not everywhereFlorida there's bugs.
The mosquitoes will carry youaway.
There's little things that theylike to nickname no-see-ums
because you don't see them.
(07:58):
They're tiny little midges andthey sting you.
So it feels like elastic bandssnapping on your skin, oh my God
.
And then like mosquito bitesand they sting you.
So it feels like elastic bandssnapping on your skin and then,
like mosquito bites, they maybelast one or two days.
The noceum bites.
They last for weeks and weeksand they itch and it's crazy.
Then snakes I've never seen sucha high density of snakes in my
life we we live on in southafrica we have a five and a half
(08:21):
hectare plot on the river andthere were snakes, but not in
the density that we've seen themhere.
So Keith goes and plays golfand if people hit their balls
into the rough they just leaveit.
Keith was like that'sridiculous.
Golf balls are expensive.
He knocked it, landed in therough.
He went to fetch it and a snakewas coiled around it.
Warren Burley (08:40):
Oh, my God.
Nicole Wittstock (08:46):
So it's just like yeah, no, we're not going
to do that.
And then also alligators, butthey're the most stupid
creatures.
We think alligators, crocodiles, are the same variant.
Nah, these things are so docileand so obviously you don't go
out there dawn and dusk and youdon't harass the things, but
they really don't pay muchattention to people.
Warren Burley (09:08):
No, so that's one of the reasons I didn't go to
Florida because all the bugs andno, as big as I am.
When it comes to snakes andcrocodiles and bugs that you
can't see that want to kill you.
Nicole Wittstock (09:24):
No, thank you I'm still alive and it's two
years down the line, so we'll befine, and there's lots of
people here.
You know what you need to cope,what I struggled with, so we
decided to go to somewhere thatwas warm.
But, oh my goodness, summerslike July, august in Florida
(09:45):
it's brutal.
It's brutal, it's humid andit's hot and it's like searing.
You want to melt.
Warren Burley (09:52):
It sounds like a rock party out there.
Nicole Wittstock (09:54):
No, it's great .
I love it.
The other thing that took quitea lot of getting used to was
it's so flat in Florida.
Warren Burley (10:01):
Yeah.
Nicole Wittstock (10:02):
There's no like rolling hills and mountains
and nothing that we're used toin South Africa.
Yeah, and also because of allthe waterways, the roads are not
mapped.
It's quite easy to follow roadsin most places because they run
straight and cross diagonallyacross each other.
This place they weave and theytune.
(10:24):
It's interesting.
So when you're coming to visit,yeah, I don't know about that.
Warren Burley (10:32):
I mean, that's one of the reasons we chose
California.
Okay, california, I meanobviously got its problems, you
know, with taxes and things likethat, but I have to see
mountains and ocean.
I mean, I went to Texas, wewent to go check out Texas, and
Texas is also just flat.
I could see like every cityfrom the airport.
(10:54):
It was insane.
I was like, no, just you knownot, not for me.
And then also the heat and andextreme cold and extreme heat,
and then also everything intexas wants to kill you.
Nicole Wittstock (11:04):
So, yeah, you know including the people with
their guns including the people.
Warren Burley (11:09):
There's a church and a gun shop on every corner.
Nicole Wittstock (11:11):
It's so weird oh, it's crazy, but you having
what we have in Florida there'sa lot of beauty and a lot of
water and I don't know, I'mdrawn to water, yeah.
Warren Burley (11:22):
Look, the thing about the States is the beauty.
People don't understand how,like when I first arrived here,
I was in awe for a long time.
Like everywhere you look, it'sjust it's amazing.
And every place you go to Imean Idaho and just everywhere
it's insanely beautiful.
Nicole Wittstock (11:40):
And totally different.
It's like each little state isits own country.
Yeah, like Florida is, most ofSouth Africa can fit into
Florida.
Warren Burley (11:48):
Yeah.
Nicole Wittstock (11:49):
So like just to give perspective to people on
the size of the states.
Warren Burley (11:52):
That's the other thing.
People don't realize how bigthe place is.
It's like oh you look on a map.
Oh, let's just walk to the shopor whatever.
Two hours later you're like ohmy God, that was a bad idea yeah
bad idea.
Let's buy a car.
You know it's not going tohappen, tell me.
Let's talk about the kids for asecond.
(12:13):
How have they adjusted to thestate's?
Nicole Wittstock (12:15):
life.
They've thrived.
Basically we got to.
I think because the accent issuch a novelty, they were really
interesting for the other kids.
And then South Africa as manyproblems as there are, there's
huge advantages.
There's huge pros as well.
So our education system isactually quite high, especially
(12:39):
coming from private schools.
They got into school and likesailed, you know it's just easy.
And what the States does isthey really want to give the
kids opportunities to do well.
So if they don't do well in anexam or they fail an assignment,
there's opportunities to redoand get extra credits.
They really want to help kidsand so both my kids are really
(13:03):
sporty and active and just theopportunities with that alone.
So Slade with his football he'spassionate about it.
I know Brandon is as well.
But how far they can go withfootball and how far Talia's
passionate about basketball andswimming there's just so many
opportunities here that we justare not exposed to anywhere else
.
Warren Burley (13:23):
And it's not just football, like the big sports.
Brandon's playing, he's doingshot put and things.
At the moment there'sscholarships for shot put.
I mean that's insane.
Everything, Like anything youwant to do, which is I mean
that's a big plus here and tellme because I mean they came here
pretty late in their schoolcareer, right in their school
life.
Yes, we were quite lucky.
(13:44):
When we came over here, brandonwas starting school, so he
started straight in the systemand he doesn't you know, he
didn't really know anything else.
Also, you know, he picked upthe accent straight away.
We often get phone calls fromthe school, like his friends
from school saying oh, are youreally from South Africa?
Brandon says she's from SouthAfrica, you know.
So do they have any challengeswith that?
Nicole Wittstock (14:05):
So Talia?
No, she switches.
So we love to say to her whenshe's home, talia speaks South
African because she'll bespeaking American, and then as
soon as she's with her friends,she speaks.
You wouldn't know that she'snot from South Africa, so she
can switch it on and off Slade.
On the other hand, he's totallySouth African.
What's interesting is new wordsthat he's learned are American
(14:27):
words, but his generalday-to-day language is South
African.
So initially it was interesting.
Then he went through a patchwhere he was teased about it and
ostracized and now that he'skind of got into high school and
he's found football, he's kindof found his people.
Now it's all settled and he'sthriving.
(14:48):
But I find it a challenge.
You know, you think it'sEnglish, you know we're speaking
the same language, but it's sorandom.
It's so not going through adrive-through is very
challenging because they justdon't understand and tavia's
friends, I'll speak to them andshe literally translates for me.
Yeah, so I'll say something.
They'll look at me blank.
(15:09):
She'll say exactly the samething.
I'm like that's just what Isaid.
Warren Burley (15:12):
Yeah, it's bizarre we stay, there's not
many foreigners.
You know, we live in a littletown called eastvale.
Um stay, there's not manyforeigners.
You know, we live in a littletown called Eastvale.
Okay, and there's not manyforeigners.
I mean, I don't think they'veever seen another South African.
Nicole Wittstock (15:24):
Yeah.
Warren Burley (15:24):
Also, where my son goes to school is Norco.
It's a cowboy town.
It's known as cowboy town.
That's cool.
I mean there's people onhorseback Going, you know, going
to school.
Oh, that's awesome, and whenthey hear our accent as well,
especially drive-thrus, no clue.
Can I have some tomato, what,what?
And then my son goes tomato andit's like that's what I said.
Nicole Wittstock (15:49):
That's exactly the same thing.
Warren Burley (15:50):
All of a sudden, you have to speak a foreign
language.
It's crazy, and I mean, we'vebeen there 10 years now and it's
still.
Nicole Wittstock (15:58):
And also like crazy, and I mean we've been at
10 years now and still.
And also like words are just sodifferent, like pavement,
sidewalk track, fit like a robotum boot.
If I say to tell you putsomething in the boot, your
friends like huh, no, mom, it'sa trunk, use the right words.
And the other day I needed toget slayed to a wrestling meet
and I had four of his friends inthe car with me and for some
reason half the wrestling meetwas in one area and then the
(16:20):
next half was in another area,and I didn't realize.
So I went to the first placeand I was almost there and the
kids started laughing and I waslike what's wrong?
No, you're at the wrong place.
So I was running so late and Icrossed over the center island
to do a U-turn and when I wasexplaining it to one of the
other moms, she's like you wentall the way to the islands.
I'm like no, what do you mean?
(16:41):
You know that littlecenterpiece between the two
roads I had to cross?
She's like oh, the median.
I'm like, no, no, it's thecenter island, check there's
nothing medium about it mybrother-in-law was a doctor in
south africa gp and he had hisown practice.
But if there were emergencieshe'd deal with the emergency and
(17:02):
, like our casualties, you doeverything.
He moved to the UK and he's nowin the hospitals, but he can
only do what he's designated todo.
So if there's an emergencycoming in and he needs to do
tracheotomy, he's not allowed tobecause he's not qualified to
do that.
And I find the same thing inthe States.
They're so over-the-topcautious with medical things and
(17:25):
I think it's all about notbeing sued, because you know you
can sue for everything thisside.
But I actually find it quitepathetic how, firstly, how
expensive medical is and howyour standard GP, everything's a
referral.
So I'm like why am I going tothe GP in the first place?
(17:47):
Yeah, and dental is stupidexpensive, but anyway, that's
one of the negatives, butthere's a lot of positives.
So I think with anything andanywhere there's pros and cons
always.
Warren Burley (18:01):
Yeah, just going back to the language barriers
and things like that, have youencountered any stereotypes
about South Africa?
Nicole Wittstock (18:10):
I find that they don't really know much
about South Africa.
So, firstly, if they hear theaccent, it's either immediately
British or Australian.
Sometimes they're pushed NewZealand, but very, very seldom
South African, because I don'tthink they just don't encounter
it much and they don't watchSouth African TV.
There's no place of referencefor them.
And then a lot of them are likeokay, so you come from south
(18:34):
africa.
Where about in africa is that?
I'm like are you shitting me?
South africa it's the bottompart of africa.
The name says it all.
It's south africa's own littlecountry, right at the bottom of
africa.
So once you've got overexplaining that, then it's like
okay, so do you have runningwater, do you?
And, um, do you have wi-fi anddo you have animals in your?
Do you have Wi-Fi and do youhave animals in your backyard?
(18:55):
And so those kind ofstereotypes.
And then obviously the kidslove it.
They're like yes, we had a pethippo.
And you know they speak realcrap, because they just laugh
that it's so extreme that peopleactually think that way.
Warren Burley (19:08):
Well, you probably got more animals in
your backyard now, right?
Nicole Wittstock (19:10):
Yeah, yep, yep , yep, yep, yep, I've got a pet
snake, that kind of slithers outevery summer.
Warren Burley (19:15):
I'm going to talk about snakes, please, and I
have to try and avoid it.
No snakes, no spiders oh my God, because I've heard about the
spiders there as well.
Nicole Wittstock (19:24):
Anyway, I haven't really encountered
spiders, which is great, becauseI'm terrified of spiders.
But snakes terrified of spiders,but snakes I'm okay with.
Have you?
Have you traveled a lot sinceyou've been here?
We haven't yet to be passionateabout traveling and we really
want to see more of the states.
But, to be very honest with you, it's been tough.
Financially.
(19:44):
It's been hard.
Um, you know you don't have thelabor force that you have in
south af, so basically you're it.
I joked the other day with mymom and I said I'm sick and
tired of my housekeeper.
She's useless, she's miserable,she doesn't do things properly,
she's forgetful.
I need to find another one.
And I'm like, oh, but actually,oops, that's me, you know.
(20:05):
So we don't have the lackies of.
We take for granted in SouthAfrica how spoiled we are and
like our labor force, they'rereally useful because people
here don't want to work.
You've got the Mexicans, whichon our own we cannot employ, so
they want to work like generallyI am generalizing, but they're
(20:28):
more the workforce.
And then the Floridians aresuper lazy and just don't want
to do anything.
We desperately want to travel,but we just need to get a house
first and there's so many otherthings we need to do before we
explore the rest of the states.
Warren Burley (20:48):
Everybody goes through that right Financially
and people come over here.
We were all blessed back home,let's put it that way.
We were all doing well, but weworked our whole life to get
where we were and then, all of asudden, we pack up and start
over, we come overseas and wethink it's going to be all roses
.
How did you cope, or how areyou coping, with that, the big
(21:10):
change you know?
Nicole Wittstock (21:19):
There's days when I hate it, but it's been a
great life lesson for my kidsbecause once again, we were
really spoiled in south africa.
We had businesses, we hadproperties, we had, we were
thriving, and if we went to theshops and they wanted gum or
they wanted chocolate or theywanted cold drink, it was was
like, okay, cool, you can haveit.
Whereas now they want and theywant and it's like, sorry, guys,
you can't have it.
It's either you're going to getdinner or you're going to get
(21:42):
junk food and, quite honestly,dinner is what it's going to be.
Also, for them to move fromlike a 800 square meter house to
a tiny little condominium whereyou can't swing cats, it's been
challenging for them, but it'staught them that life's not
always going to stay the same.
What you have, what you havetoday, you might not have
(22:04):
tomorrow.
Appreciate what you have andmake the best of every situation
because, yes, you're living ina tiny little house now, that's
not ours, but you can walk toyour friends' houses and you can
walk to the complex pool andnot worry about anything.
You can drive down the roadwith your windows down, so, yeah
(22:29):
, and you can have an educationand opportunities going forward.
So that was the biggest movefor us.
It was not for Keith and I.
You know we were doing well, wewere fine there, except for the
load shedding and stuff.
Warren Burley (22:43):
But looking forward and opportunities for
Satan Taylor, that was why wemoved yeah, and look, I think
90% of the people I talk to onthe podcast that's their reason
is their children.
Yeah, it's opportunity for them.
I mean, the opportunities areendless here.
You can be anything you want tobe.
You just can't be lazy andhopefully the South African in
(23:06):
them kicks in forever, becauseSouth Africa that's one thing
we're not is lazy.
I mean that's what we?
Nicole Wittstock (23:12):
Yeah, we're great, we're good workers.
Warren Burley (23:14):
Yeah, we'll thrive, no matter what right.
Is there a big South Africancommunity where you are?
None, oh nice.
Nicole Wittstock (23:23):
I think we've met maybe three other South
African couples like close towhere we stay.
There's one family that we meton a skiing trip.
That was with a group ofKeith's friends many years ago
and they stay in Ormond Beach,which is about a 15-minute drive
from us, but otherwise no.
(23:44):
So there are the SAFA groupsand they do have get-togethers
but it's not like it's close tous and, quite honestly, I'm not
too perturbed about being justwith South Africans, because
just because you're SouthAfrican doesn't mean that you're
going to get together and enjoyeach other's company.
(24:05):
There's people that I wouldn'tsocialize with in South Africa
because we're just not the same.
So why suddenly, because I'm inanother country, must we become
best friends?
I'd rather you've moved toanother country.
You need to integrate andbecome that country instead of
staying back and trying to holdon to South Africa so hard.
Warren Burley (24:24):
And what do you miss about South Africa?
Nicole Wittstock (24:27):
I miss my parents.
That's been really hard.
My brother, I miss the space ofmy house.
There's just something aboutSouth Africa.
That's been really hard.
My brother, I miss the space ofmy house.
There's just something aboutSouth Africa that's nowhere else
in the world and, quitehonestly, I didn't leave South
Africa and I'm not going to bashSouth Africa because I hated
the country.
I love the country.
I'll always be South Africanand it's in your blood.
(24:49):
But right now I don't have anydesire to go back, just because
I need to be looking forward andneed to make America my home.
Warren Burley (24:57):
Okay On that.
Do you ever see yourself goingback?
Nicole Wittstock (24:59):
Not for a long time.
No, not unless I absolutelyhave to.
Because you touched on thesubject of traveling and I'm
like okay, I've seen and done98% of South Africa, 98% of
South Africa, but now I'm goingto spend all that money to
travel back there.
When I can explore that money,I can use to explore two
different states this side.
Warren Burley (25:19):
Yeah.
Nicole Wittstock (25:20):
So, unless there's an emergency, no, keith
has to travel backwards andforwards.
Obviously, we've still got ourbusinesses that side, yeah, but
to do it as an entire family, no, I don't want to.
Warren Burley (25:32):
All right, so any advice you would give to
someone that wants to move toFlorida.
Nicole Wittstock (25:36):
I'd say be prepared.
Warren Burley (25:37):
Bring lots of golf balls.
Nicole Wittstock (25:39):
Yeah, I'd say be prepared for the heat,
because it's intense, it's likeMozambique heat and be open to
wherever you move.
Be open and receptive to thatspace.
Don't be closed off and like,try and stay South African,
because I think that is superdifficult.
If you, if you make thedecision to move, then you do it
(26:02):
wholeheartedly, becauseotherwise you'll never be happy
you'll.
I know too many people thathave moved somewhere, hated it
because they didn't embrace it,moved back to South Africa,
hated it, moved again.
So until you decide to be happy, you won't be, no matter where
you are.
Warren Burley (26:21):
Some good advice there.
All right, nicole, thanks.
Thank you, that was quite anice chat and I appreciate your
time.
Awesome, nice catching up.
Hopefully we'll come visit soon, when all the snakes die.
Nicole Wittstock (26:33):
Yeah, come in winter because, then it's
temperate and there's nocreatures out.
Warren Burley (26:41):
We'll catch up soon.
Nicole Wittstock (26:43):
Thanks again, and have a good one, cheers.
Warren Burley (26:47):
If you're eager to explore more stories of South
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(27:08):
So until next time, check yourTuesday.
Welcome back to South Africans Abroad a show for
expat South Africans and anyoneinterested in the experiences
of those who have made the moveoverseas.
In e Each episode we'll hearfrom South Africans who have
left the country to pursue newopportunities, be with loved
ones, or simply follow theirdreams.
We'll explore the challengesand triumphs of life as an expat
and the unique perspective thatcomes with being a South
(00:25):
African abroad.
I'm your host, warren Burley,an expat South African who, like
many, followed the dream ofworking overseas.
Whether you're an expatyourself or just curious about
the expat experience, join us aswe delve into the motivations,
struggles, and joys of being aSouth African living overseas.
Thanks for joining us.
Today we're going to Florida tospeak with Nicole Wittstock.
(00:47):
Nicole is a mother, an artist,and an entrepreneur from
Johannesburg .
Nicole, how are you doing?
Hey, warren, good, and you,yeah, I'm good.
Thanks.
Do you want to just introduceyourself and tell our listeners
a little bit about you, hey?
Nicole Wittstock (00:58):
everyone, my name is Nicole.
I am a mother, a wife,entrepreneur and, most foremost,
an artist.
Warren Burley (01:07):
Okay, great.
When we first met, you were inadvertising.
What brought on the change?
Nicole Wittstock (01:12):
It was a great industry to be in when I was
younger, but when I decided thatI wanted to have a family, it
just wasn't possible.
I couldn't fall pregnant.
The stress levels were too high, the demands were too high,
there was no free time.
So I thought, okay, I've givenmy all to this industry, I've
had my fun, so it's now time tomove on.
Warren Burley (01:32):
Okay, so how long have you been in the States now
?
Nicole Wittstock (01:35):
Just over two years.
Warren Burley (01:37):
Everywhere you could have gone in the world.
Why America?
Nicole Wittstock (01:40):
I think it's living the American dream.
You know, we could have easilygone over to Europe.
I've got an Italian passport sowe could have gone to the UK,
we could have gone to Europe,but there's just nothing quite
as empowering as getting intothe States.
You know, nobody can.
It's this unattainable dreamand to be able to do that was
(02:01):
quite incredible actually.
Warren Burley (02:02):
Okay, so let's just talk about that for a
second.
So how difficult was it for youto get into the States?
Nicole Wittstock (02:08):
Because I mean it's not an easy thing, right
it was a mammoth task.
Yeah, no, it was mammoth.
It's still not a done deal.
It's a constant uphill slug.
It's expensive, it's at timessoul-destroying, but also super
(02:29):
rewarding.
Every now and then, Keith and Imy husband and I look at each
other and we're like we're inAmerica.
Sometimes it's really surreal.
Warren Burley (02:45):
what is your visa status at the moment?
Nicole Wittstock (02:47):
So we came over on an L1 visa.
So Keith did a startup businessof his business in South Africa
.
We brought it across the side.
So it's an executive transferL1 visa.
Myself and the kids are on theL2, which piggyback off the l1
right um, yeah, so it's.
(03:08):
It's quite an executive visa.
It's one of the more expensiveones to do, unless you do the
straight buyout, which you know.
Unless you've got a little bitof cash hanging around, that's
not an option for everyone yeahum, yeah, so it's an executive
one.
Warren Burley (03:37):
Just tell everyone what Keith does.
Nicole Wittstock (03:40):
So he's got an engineering business in South
Africa.
So he's got an engineeringbusiness in South Africa.
He does shelving, palletracking, expandable security
gates, adjustable louver awnings.
We also dabble in building andrental.
So he builds our properties, Imanage the rentals.
I still do that from the side.
Warren Burley (03:58):
Yeah.
Nicole Wittstock (03:59):
And we found that the best option for us to
bring across and easiest wasshelving and overhead ceiling
racks, because everybody needsstorage to the side.
I can't actually believe howpeople use their garages as
storage space, not as a parkingspace for their vehicles, yep.
Warren Burley (04:16):
And they all sit outside their garages like all
day, that's bizarre.
Nicole Wittstock (04:20):
That's bizarre , but anyway it's fine.
We've got to fit into a newknow, a new norm, I suppose.
Warren Burley (04:26):
Yeah, because I was going to say, like security
gates and stuff like that, Imean that can't be that big.
I mean I'm sure it's getting toa point now where it's starting
to, you know, pick on, butthere can't be much business for
that actually.
Nicole Wittstock (04:38):
Yeah, we've never.
We haven't actuallyinvestigated that route at all,
because it's not a crime-riddenplace, especially not where we
are in Lake Mary Florida.
You know it's non-existent.
There's no walls, there's nosecurity on the windows and
doors, so it's not needed.
Warren Burley (04:57):
And how did you just talking about security and
stuff like that, how did youfind that?
Like when you first arrivedhere, because I was in shock
there's no walls, there's nosecurity gates.
Nicole Wittstock (05:06):
I felt very unsafe and vulnerable.
Actually, it took me a goodlong while to adjust to that
because we all know, especiallyfrom Joburg, you live behind
these high walls and electricfence and security bars and
beams and then you come here andthere's nothing and it's dark
outside and you're like there'sno walls, there's nothing
(05:26):
protecting us and it's quiet andit's quiet.
Well, I don't know about quiet,there's fire engines and police
sirens going all the time, butit's.
It's just so dramatic theydeployed for a cat that's stuck
up in a tree you know?
Warren Burley (05:41):
yeah, exactly, and the whole world must stop.
Yeah, don't you find it crazy?
Also, like, like, when a fireengine or something comes down
the road, everyone just pullsover to the side of the road.
Nicole Wittstock (05:49):
It's incredible, like it's a party
trick, if we have visitors overfrom Joburg.
Warren Burley (05:55):
Yeah.
Nicole Wittstock (05:56):
The courtesy of other drivers.
So everybody's like, oh, theI-4, it's so crazy and it's
terrible to drive on, butthere's four lanes and people
stick to those four lanes.
There's two shoulders on eitherside and if you indicate,
people slow down and let you in.
You know South Africa, youindicate and people speed up to
close the gap.
So it's just totally differentyeah, no, it is crazy.
Warren Burley (06:19):
Did you explore the whole of America or did you
just go straight?
Nicole Wittstock (06:22):
oh, we want to go to Florida so our process
was was okay, we're going to theUS, great.
Then we looked at all thedifferent states and we're like
we don't want cold, we don'twant to be shoveling snow, we
act of outdoor people, so wedon't want to be restricted to
the house.
That was another thing why wedidn't go to Europe, because we
don't want to have to deal withthe cold.
(06:42):
So that narrowed it down.
And then also the taxes, so youdon't get personal tax and the
taxes were a big criteria for us.
So it kind of narrowed it downto Texas and Florida.
Then we were like okay, we'restarting up a business.
Texas is very vast, so to startsomething and be able to spread
(07:08):
it out would take a lot moretime.
So that narrowed it down toFlorida.
Then I wanted to be on thecoastline but Keith works with
steel so we were like, okay, itcan't be coast.
So central Florida.
Then it was what are the goodschool zones?
Because obviously the kids aregoing to public schools.
And that narrowed it down to itwas Lake Mary, avido and Lake
Nona.
Keith managed to get warehousespace in Longwood, so Lake Mary
(07:31):
it was.
That was basically our process.
Warren Burley (07:34):
How true is it?
Because everybody sayseverything in Florida is trying
to kill you.
Nicole Wittstock (07:37):
Freaking hell, and it's true.
So, as in South Africa, we'vegot amazingly scary creatures,
but they'll kill you quickly,you know.
And they're not everywhereFlorida there's bugs.
The mosquitoes will carry youaway.
There's little things that theylike to nickname no-see-ums
because you don't see them.
(07:58):
They're tiny little midges andthey sting you.
So it feels like elastic bandssnapping on your skin, oh my God
.
And then like mosquito bitesand they sting you.
So it feels like elastic bandssnapping on your skin and then,
like mosquito bites, they maybelast one or two days.
The noceum bites.
They last for weeks and weeksand they itch and it's crazy.
Then snakes I've never seen sucha high density of snakes in my
life we we live on in southafrica we have a five and a half
(08:21):
hectare plot on the river andthere were snakes, but not in
the density that we've seen themhere.
So Keith goes and plays golfand if people hit their balls
into the rough they just leaveit.
Keith was like that'sridiculous.
Golf balls are expensive.
He knocked it, landed in therough.
He went to fetch it and a snakewas coiled around it.
Warren Burley (08:40):
Oh, my God.
Nicole Wittstock (08:46):
So it's just like yeah, no, we're not going
to do that.
And then also alligators, butthey're the most stupid
creatures.
We think alligators, crocodiles, are the same variant.
Nah, these things are so docileand so obviously you don't go
out there dawn and dusk and youdon't harass the things, but
they really don't pay muchattention to people.
Warren Burley (09:08):
No, so that's one of the reasons I didn't go to
Florida because all the bugs andno, as big as I am.
When it comes to snakes andcrocodiles and bugs that you
can't see that want to kill you.
Nicole Wittstock (09:24):
No, thank you I'm still alive and it's two
years down the line, so we'll befine, and there's lots of
people here.
You know what you need to cope,what I struggled with, so we
decided to go to somewhere thatwas warm.
But, oh my goodness, summerslike July, august in Florida
(09:45):
it's brutal.
It's brutal, it's humid andit's hot and it's like searing.
You want to melt.
Warren Burley (09:52):
It sounds like a rock party out there.
Nicole Wittstock (09:54):
No, it's great .
I love it.
The other thing that took quitea lot of getting used to was
it's so flat in Florida.
Warren Burley (10:01):
Yeah.
Nicole Wittstock (10:02):
There's no like rolling hills and mountains
and nothing that we're used toin South Africa.
Yeah, and also because of allthe waterways, the roads are not
mapped.
It's quite easy to follow roadsin most places because they run
straight and cross diagonallyacross each other.
This place they weave and theytune.
(10:24):
It's interesting.
So when you're coming to visit,yeah, I don't know about that.
Warren Burley (10:32):
I mean, that's one of the reasons we chose
California.
Okay, california, I meanobviously got its problems, you
know, with taxes and things likethat, but I have to see
mountains and ocean.
I mean, I went to Texas, wewent to go check out Texas, and
Texas is also just flat.
I could see like every cityfrom the airport.
(10:54):
It was insane.
I was like, no, just you knownot, not for me.
And then also the heat and andextreme cold and extreme heat,
and then also everything intexas wants to kill you.
Nicole Wittstock (11:04):
So, yeah, you know including the people with
their guns including the people.
Warren Burley (11:09):
There's a church and a gun shop on every corner.
Nicole Wittstock (11:11):
It's so weird oh, it's crazy, but you having
what we have in Florida there'sa lot of beauty and a lot of
water and I don't know, I'mdrawn to water, yeah.
Warren Burley (11:22):
Look, the thing about the States is the beauty.
People don't understand how,like when I first arrived here,
I was in awe for a long time.
Like everywhere you look, it'sjust it's amazing.
And every place you go to Imean Idaho and just everywhere
it's insanely beautiful.
Nicole Wittstock (11:40):
And totally different.
It's like each little state isits own country.
Yeah, like Florida is, most ofSouth Africa can fit into
Florida.
Warren Burley (11:48):
Yeah.
Nicole Wittstock (11:49):
So like just to give perspective to people on
the size of the states.
Warren Burley (11:52):
That's the other thing.
People don't realize how bigthe place is.
It's like oh you look on a map.
Oh, let's just walk to the shopor whatever.
Two hours later you're like ohmy God, that was a bad idea yeah
bad idea.
Let's buy a car.
You know it's not going tohappen, tell me.
Let's talk about the kids for asecond.
(12:13):
How have they adjusted to thestate's?
Nicole Wittstock (12:15):
life.
They've thrived.
Basically we got to.
I think because the accent issuch a novelty, they were really
interesting for the other kids.
And then South Africa as manyproblems as there are, there's
huge advantages.
There's huge pros as well.
So our education system isactually quite high, especially
(12:39):
coming from private schools.
They got into school and likesailed, you know it's just easy.
And what the States does isthey really want to give the
kids opportunities to do well.
So if they don't do well in anexam or they fail an assignment,
there's opportunities to redoand get extra credits.
They really want to help kidsand so both my kids are really
(13:03):
sporty and active and just theopportunities with that alone.
So Slade with his football he'spassionate about it.
I know Brandon is as well.
But how far they can go withfootball and how far Talia's
passionate about basketball andswimming there's just so many
opportunities here that we justare not exposed to anywhere else
.
Warren Burley (13:23):
And it's not just football, like the big sports.
Brandon's playing, he's doingshot put and things.
At the moment there'sscholarships for shot put.
I mean that's insane.
Everything, Like anything youwant to do, which is I mean
that's a big plus here and tellme because I mean they came here
pretty late in their schoolcareer, right in their school
life.
Yes, we were quite lucky.
(13:44):
When we came over here, brandonwas starting school, so he
started straight in the systemand he doesn't you know, he
didn't really know anything else.
Also, you know, he picked upthe accent straight away.
We often get phone calls fromthe school, like his friends
from school saying oh, are youreally from South Africa?
Brandon says she's from SouthAfrica, you know.
So do they have any challengeswith that?
Nicole Wittstock (14:05):
So Talia?
No, she switches.
So we love to say to her whenshe's home, talia speaks South
African because she'll bespeaking American, and then as
soon as she's with her friends,she speaks.
You wouldn't know that she'snot from South Africa, so she
can switch it on and off Slade.
On the other hand, he's totallySouth African.
What's interesting is new wordsthat he's learned are American
(14:27):
words, but his generalday-to-day language is South
African.
So initially it was interesting.
Then he went through a patchwhere he was teased about it and
ostracized and now that he'skind of got into high school and
he's found football, he's kindof found his people.
Now it's all settled and he'sthriving.
(14:48):
But I find it a challenge.
You know, you think it'sEnglish, you know we're speaking
the same language, but it's sorandom.
It's so not going through adrive-through is very
challenging because they justdon't understand and tavia's
friends, I'll speak to them andshe literally translates for me.
Yeah, so I'll say something.
They'll look at me blank.
(15:09):
She'll say exactly the samething.
I'm like that's just what Isaid.
Warren Burley (15:12):
Yeah, it's bizarre we stay, there's not
many foreigners.
You know, we live in a littletown called eastvale.
Um stay, there's not manyforeigners.
You know, we live in a littletown called Eastvale.
Okay, and there's not manyforeigners.
I mean, I don't think they'veever seen another South African.
Nicole Wittstock (15:24):
Yeah.
Warren Burley (15:24):
Also, where my son goes to school is Norco.
It's a cowboy town.
It's known as cowboy town.
That's cool.
I mean there's people onhorseback Going, you know, going
to school.
Oh, that's awesome, and whenthey hear our accent as well,
especially drive-thrus, no clue.
Can I have some tomato, what,what?
And then my son goes tomato andit's like that's what I said.
Nicole Wittstock (15:49):
That's exactly the same thing.
Warren Burley (15:50):
All of a sudden, you have to speak a foreign
language.
It's crazy, and I mean, we'vebeen there 10 years now and it's
still.
Nicole Wittstock (15:58):
And also like crazy, and I mean we've been at
10 years now and still.
And also like words are just sodifferent, like pavement,
sidewalk track, fit like a robotum boot.
If I say to tell you putsomething in the boot, your
friends like huh, no, mom, it'sa trunk, use the right words.
And the other day I needed toget slayed to a wrestling meet
and I had four of his friends inthe car with me and for some
reason half the wrestling meetwas in one area and then the
(16:20):
next half was in another area,and I didn't realize.
So I went to the first placeand I was almost there and the
kids started laughing and I waslike what's wrong?
No, you're at the wrong place.
So I was running so late and Icrossed over the center island
to do a U-turn and when I wasexplaining it to one of the
other moms, she's like you wentall the way to the islands.
I'm like no, what do you mean?
(16:41):
You know that littlecenterpiece between the two
roads I had to cross?
She's like oh, the median.
I'm like, no, no, it's thecenter island, check there's
nothing medium about it mybrother-in-law was a doctor in
south africa gp and he had hisown practice.
But if there were emergencieshe'd deal with the emergency and
(17:02):
, like our casualties, you doeverything.
He moved to the UK and he's nowin the hospitals, but he can
only do what he's designated todo.
So if there's an emergencycoming in and he needs to do
tracheotomy, he's not allowed tobecause he's not qualified to
do that.
And I find the same thing inthe States.
They're so over-the-topcautious with medical things and
(17:25):
I think it's all about notbeing sued, because you know you
can sue for everything thisside.
But I actually find it quitepathetic how, firstly, how
expensive medical is and howyour standard GP, everything's a
referral.
So I'm like why am I going tothe GP in the first place?
(17:47):
Yeah, and dental is stupidexpensive, but anyway, that's
one of the negatives, butthere's a lot of positives.
So I think with anything andanywhere there's pros and cons
always.
Warren Burley (18:01):
Yeah, just going back to the language barriers
and things like that, have youencountered any stereotypes
about South Africa?
Nicole Wittstock (18:10):
I find that they don't really know much
about South Africa.
So, firstly, if they hear theaccent, it's either immediately
British or Australian.
Sometimes they're pushed NewZealand, but very, very seldom
South African, because I don'tthink they just don't encounter
it much and they don't watchSouth African TV.
There's no place of referencefor them.
And then a lot of them are likeokay, so you come from south
(18:34):
africa.
Where about in africa is that?
I'm like are you shitting me?
South africa it's the bottompart of africa.
The name says it all.
It's south africa's own littlecountry, right at the bottom of
africa.
So once you've got overexplaining that, then it's like
okay, so do you have runningwater, do you?
And, um, do you have wi-fi anddo you have animals in your?
Do you have Wi-Fi and do youhave animals in your backyard?
(18:55):
And so those kind ofstereotypes.
And then obviously the kidslove it.
They're like yes, we had a pethippo.
And you know they speak realcrap, because they just laugh
that it's so extreme that peopleactually think that way.
Warren Burley (19:08):
Well, you probably got more animals in
your backyard now, right?
Nicole Wittstock (19:10):
Yeah, yep, yep , yep, yep, yep, I've got a pet
snake, that kind of slithers outevery summer.
Warren Burley (19:15):
I'm going to talk about snakes, please, and I
have to try and avoid it.
No snakes, no spiders oh my God, because I've heard about the
spiders there as well.
Nicole Wittstock (19:24):
Anyway, I haven't really encountered
spiders, which is great, becauseI'm terrified of spiders.
But snakes terrified of spiders,but snakes I'm okay with.
Have you?
Have you traveled a lot sinceyou've been here?
We haven't yet to be passionateabout traveling and we really
want to see more of the states.
But, to be very honest with you, it's been tough.
Financially.
(19:44):
It's been hard.
Um, you know you don't have thelabor force that you have in
south af, so basically you're it.
I joked the other day with mymom and I said I'm sick and
tired of my housekeeper.
She's useless, she's miserable,she doesn't do things properly,
she's forgetful.
I need to find another one.
And I'm like, oh, but actually,oops, that's me, you know.
(20:05):
So we don't have the lackies of.
We take for granted in SouthAfrica how spoiled we are and
like our labor force, they'rereally useful because people
here don't want to work.
You've got the Mexicans, whichon our own we cannot employ, so
they want to work like generallyI am generalizing, but they're
(20:28):
more the workforce.
And then the Floridians aresuper lazy and just don't want
to do anything.
We desperately want to travel,but we just need to get a house
first and there's so many otherthings we need to do before we
explore the rest of the states.
Warren Burley (20:48):
Everybody goes through that right Financially
and people come over here.
We were all blessed back home,let's put it that way.
We were all doing well, but weworked our whole life to get
where we were and then, all of asudden, we pack up and start
over, we come overseas and wethink it's going to be all roses
.
How did you cope, or how areyou coping, with that, the big
(21:10):
change you know?
Nicole Wittstock (21:19):
There's days when I hate it, but it's been a
great life lesson for my kidsbecause once again, we were
really spoiled in south africa.
We had businesses, we hadproperties, we had, we were
thriving, and if we went to theshops and they wanted gum or
they wanted chocolate or theywanted cold drink, it was was
like, okay, cool, you can haveit.
Whereas now they want and theywant and it's like, sorry, guys,
you can't have it.
It's either you're going to getdinner or you're going to get
(21:42):
junk food and, quite honestly,dinner is what it's going to be.
Also, for them to move fromlike a 800 square meter house to
a tiny little condominium whereyou can't swing cats, it's been
challenging for them, but it'staught them that life's not
always going to stay the same.
What you have, what you havetoday, you might not have
(22:04):
tomorrow.
Appreciate what you have andmake the best of every situation
because, yes, you're living ina tiny little house now, that's
not ours, but you can walk toyour friends' houses and you can
walk to the complex pool andnot worry about anything.
You can drive down the roadwith your windows down, so, yeah
(22:29):
, and you can have an educationand opportunities going forward.
So that was the biggest movefor us.
It was not for Keith and I.
You know we were doing well, wewere fine there, except for the
load shedding and stuff.
Warren Burley (22:43):
But looking forward and opportunities for
Satan Taylor, that was why wemoved yeah, and look, I think
90% of the people I talk to onthe podcast that's their reason
is their children.
Yeah, it's opportunity for them.
I mean, the opportunities areendless here.
You can be anything you want tobe.
You just can't be lazy andhopefully the South African in
(23:06):
them kicks in forever, becauseSouth Africa that's one thing
we're not is lazy.
I mean that's what we?
Nicole Wittstock (23:12):
Yeah, we're great, we're good workers.
Warren Burley (23:14):
Yeah, we'll thrive, no matter what right.
Is there a big South Africancommunity where you are?
None, oh nice.
Nicole Wittstock (23:23):
I think we've met maybe three other South
African couples like close towhere we stay.
There's one family that we meton a skiing trip.
That was with a group ofKeith's friends many years ago
and they stay in Ormond Beach,which is about a 15-minute drive
from us, but otherwise no.
(23:44):
So there are the SAFA groupsand they do have get-togethers
but it's not like it's close tous and, quite honestly, I'm not
too perturbed about being justwith South Africans, because
just because you're SouthAfrican doesn't mean that you're
going to get together and enjoyeach other's company.
(24:05):
There's people that I wouldn'tsocialize with in South Africa
because we're just not the same.
So why suddenly, because I'm inanother country, must we become
best friends?
I'd rather you've moved toanother country.
You need to integrate andbecome that country instead of
staying back and trying to holdon to South Africa so hard.
Warren Burley (24:24):
And what do you miss about South Africa?
Nicole Wittstock (24:27):
I miss my parents.
That's been really hard.
My brother, I miss the space ofmy house.
There's just something aboutSouth Africa.
That's been really hard.
My brother, I miss the space ofmy house.
There's just something aboutSouth Africa that's nowhere else
in the world and, quitehonestly, I didn't leave South
Africa and I'm not going to bashSouth Africa because I hated
the country.
I love the country.
I'll always be South Africanand it's in your blood.
(24:49):
But right now I don't have anydesire to go back, just because
I need to be looking forward andneed to make America my home.
Warren Burley (24:57):
Okay On that.
Do you ever see yourself goingback?
Nicole Wittstock (24:59):
Not for a long time.
No, not unless I absolutelyhave to.
Because you touched on thesubject of traveling and I'm
like okay, I've seen and done98% of South Africa, 98% of
South Africa, but now I'm goingto spend all that money to
travel back there.
When I can explore that money,I can use to explore two
different states this side.
Warren Burley (25:19):
Yeah.
Nicole Wittstock (25:20):
So, unless there's an emergency, no, keith
has to travel backwards andforwards.
Obviously, we've still got ourbusinesses that side, yeah, but
to do it as an entire family, no, I don't want to.
Warren Burley (25:32):
All right, so any advice you would give to
someone that wants to move toFlorida.
Nicole Wittstock (25:36):
I'd say be prepared.
Warren Burley (25:37):
Bring lots of golf balls.
Nicole Wittstock (25:39):
Yeah, I'd say be prepared for the heat,
because it's intense, it's likeMozambique heat and be open to
wherever you move.
Be open and receptive to thatspace.
Don't be closed off and like,try and stay South African,
because I think that is superdifficult.
If you, if you make thedecision to move, then you do it
(26:02):
wholeheartedly, becauseotherwise you'll never be happy
you'll.
I know too many people thathave moved somewhere, hated it
because they didn't embrace it,moved back to South Africa,
hated it, moved again.
So until you decide to be happy, you won't be, no matter where
you are.
Warren Burley (26:21):
Some good advice there.
All right, nicole, thanks.
Thank you, that was quite anice chat and I appreciate your
time.
Awesome, nice catching up.
Hopefully we'll come visit soon, when all the snakes die.
Nicole Wittstock (26:33):
Yeah, come in winter because, then it's
temperate and there's nocreatures out.
Warren Burley (26:41):
We'll catch up soon.
Nicole Wittstock (26:43):
Thanks again, and have a good one, cheers.
Warren Burley (26:47):
If you're eager to explore more stories of South
Africans abroad, be sure to hitthat subscribe button so you
never miss a moment Forexclusive updates, discussions
and a chance to connect withfellow listeners.
Be sure to join our vibrantcommunity on Facebook.
Just search for South AfricansAbroad Podcast and become part
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There.
You'll find additional content,behind-the-scenes insights and
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(27:08):
So until next time, check yourTuesday.
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