June 11, 2025 • 33 mins
What happens when a devoted Cape Town resident who "would never leave South Africa" finds herself making a new home in a small Spanish town? Simona's story isn't your typical expat tale of fleeing problems, but rather a thoughtful journey toward family and opportunity.
After both her adult children settled in Europe, Simona and her husband reconsidered their future. The growing gap between earning in rands versus euros combined with the pull of family abroad led them to Spain's beautiful Costa Blanca region. What they discovered there went far beyond financial considerations.
The most profound revelation came about a year into their new life: "I didn't even realize how much fear I was living in until I stopped just looking around me and clutching my bag," Simona shares. Watching someone leave their phone unattended at a café table—and finding it still there upon return—highlighted the dramatic shift in daily security and peace of mind.
Despite Italian heritage that simplified visa concerns, challenges remained. Spanish bureaucracy proved nightmarish, requiring legal help despite EU citizenship. Learning Spanish continues four years later (with amusing mishaps, like discovering the Italian word for butter means "donkey" in Spanish). And yes, those legendary Spanish siestas are absolutely real!
The move enabled Simona to finally pursue her dream of writing children's books, with her first publication coming this year. Meanwhile, her programmer husband continues working remotely, allowing them a comfortable life in their small town where everything is walkable.
For those contemplating a similar move, Simona offers wisdom: "It's not a question of the grass being greener on one side or the other. It's what you bring to it." Her experience shows that expat life isn't about escaping problems but about creating new possibilities—sometimes in unexpected places.
Want to hear more stories like Simona's? Subscribe to South Africans Abroad and join our community of global South Africans forging new paths while keeping their roots. Share your thoughts or your own expat journey with us at saabroadpodcast.com.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome back to South Africans Abroad, a show for
expat South Africans and anyoneinterested in the experiences of
those who have made the moveoverseas.
Each episode, we'll hear fromSouth Africans who have left the
country to pursue newopportunities, be with loved
ones or simply follow theirdreams.
We'll explore the challengesand triumphs of life as an expat
and the unique perspective thatcomes with being a South
(00:24):
African abroad.
Life as an expat and the uniqueperspective that comes with
being a South African abroad.
I'm your host, warren Burley,an expat South African who, like
many, followed the dream ofworking overseas.
Whether you're an expatyourself or just curious about
the expat experience, join us aswe delve into the motivations,
struggles and joys of being aSouth African living overseas.
Today we're heading to Spainwith one of our guests, simona,
(00:44):
who made the big move from SouthAfrica to Madrid.
We'll dive into what it's liketrading biltong for tapas,
navigating Spanish culture andthe biggest surprises she's
faced along the way.
If you ever dreamed about lifein Spain, this one's for you.
Let's get into it.
Hi, simona, how are you doing?
Great thanks.
Do you just want to tell us alittle bit about you?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Sure, well, I lived my whole life in Cape Town and I
love Cape Town.
Cape Town's still one of themost beautiful cities in the
world as far as I'm concerned.
When my son was 21, he took offto go and study in Germany and
never came back.
And then, when my daughterfinished higher education in
(01:28):
South Africa, she got a degreein visual communications.
She's also decided to spreadher wings and eventually decided
to settle in Spain.
I was always one of thosepeople that said I would never
leave South Africa.
I liked my life there.
My husband and I were veryinvolved with Neighborhood Watch
(01:50):
and all kinds of things, butwith both our kids in Europe, we
kind of thought you know, whatare we doing here?
What are we doing here?
And uh, especially with thedifference, um, with uh earning
(02:12):
rents and as opposed to earningeuros, that that difference was
becoming harder and harder, forsure.
So, um, yeah, we did made thethe leap, uh, roughly four years
ago, and we chose Spain ratherthan Germany for a couple of
reasons we wanted to be in asmaller town and my son lives in
(02:35):
Frankfurt, and my daughterhappened to have chosen to live
in one of the most beautifulspots in Spain, to live in one
of the most beautiful spots inSpain, which is a Costa Blanca.
We're about one hour away fromValencia on the one side and
Alicante on the other, whichmeans we're basically an hour
(02:55):
away from two big cities withinternational airports.
But where we actually live is avery small town.
That is just wonderful.
I can walk everywhere, doeverything that I need, and if I
want a little bit morenightlife or whatever there's 10
(03:20):
minutes away.
I've got all the fun that Iwant.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
What was your first impression of Madrid?
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Well, I didn't stay in Madrid.
We basically just went throughMadrid and moved straight to
this little town in the provinceof Alicante.
So yeah, we first lived inJavier, which is more of a
touristy place, but theaccommodation there was very
(03:51):
expensive.
So we moved to a little town 10minutes away and we were able
to find a lovely apartment tosettle in.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Okay, and what do you do for a living?
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Well, in South Africa I did all kinds of things.
I was even a tour guide for awhile, but before I left South
Africa I did the course so thatI would be able to teach English
as a foreign language.
So I got certified to do that,which is something that I could
do both online and in person.
I was extremely fortunate inthat my husband actually works
(04:33):
online.
He's a computer websiteprogrammer so he could just
carry on working as he hadbefore for international clients
.
It didn't actually matterwhether we were living in South
(04:55):
Africa or living here.
I never really made it very, letme put it this way.
I did do some teaching, but itnever really got off the ground
because there are actually somany English speaking people
living here that already, yeah,there wasn't really a demand for
an English teacher.
(05:17):
But again, I was really luckythat this gave me the chance to
finally do what I'd alwaysdreamt of doing, which is
writing books.
So my first children's book isdue to be published sometime
this year, probably around June.
(05:37):
I'm also writing a couple ofnovels a couple of novels and in
the meantime, living here inthis small town, we're able to
live on what my husband bringsin, which is not something we
were able to do when we wereboth living in South Africa
working full-time jobs.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Yeah Well, that brings me to a question has the
lifestyle changed, kind of, with, you know, exchange rates and
is things more expensive?
Expensive?
It sounds like it was moreexpensive living in South Africa
.
Um, but how does that?
How does that compare?
Speaker 2 (06:13):
that's actually a very interesting question,
because it was extremely painfulwhen we first arrived because
basically we we sold up.
We, we sold just abouteverything we owned and the
money, the whole nest egg, wastiny after the exchange rate.
(06:36):
So that was a bit of a shock.
For a very small period of timewe were actually millionaires
because we'd sold everything.
But when we came here to Europethat money didn't go far at all
.
But strangely enough again, itreally varies depending on where
(06:57):
you live.
So if we had stayed in Madrid,my story would probably be very
different.
But because we have chosen tolive in a smaller town, we have
actually got a really goodstandard of living, even though
we are in a way earning lessthan we were before, because I
(07:20):
haven't really been earning.
I'm hoping to make some moneywith my books when they
eventually come out, but for thepast four years pretty much
it's only been my husbandbringing money in.
So yes, I would say you know,if you come to Spain, there are
(07:41):
actually many little placeswhere you can have a really good
standard of living for way lessthan you'd expect yeah, and
we've kind of heard that aboutlike portugal.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Like you say, you've heard some of the other podcasts
and um, you've got a lot incommon with uh tanya, um, who's
in portugal.
Uh, one thing she found uhquite difficult was getting into
.
Like you moved into a smalltown was getting into the
culture and the languagebarriers and things in small
towns is it?
Is it the same there?
Speaker 2 (08:14):
it is.
Um, I uh didn't speak anyspanish at all when I got here.
Um, I'm still doing Duolingolessons faithfully every single
day.
It was a bit rough, buthonestly, in this particular
(08:37):
part of Spain there's a hugeEnglish-speaking community.
English speaking community Alittle less now with since
Brexit, but still a lot, becauseeven people from other parts of
Europe, like from theNetherlands or Germany or
(08:58):
whatever they all speak Englishas well.
So a lot of places actuallyhave information in English and
Spanish.
It's not difficult to figureout what you need to do.
So, quite quickly, I foundpeople that could help me Quite
(09:25):
quickly.
I found people that could helpme navigate the things.
One thing I do have to say that, in common with what Tanya said
, the bureaucracy is a nightmare, but it's the same all over.
I mean, most of my familyactually chose to go and live in
(09:48):
Italy and their bureaucracy isjust as bad, if not even worse
than what we've got here inSpain.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
In what way is it bad ?
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Oh, just even to get an appointment to get your
residence papers handed in andthings like that.
If you don't actually hire alawyer to help you, you just
don't get anywhere, and I don'tthink it's any better anyway, to
(10:23):
be honest.
Yeah, just bureaucracy is apain.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
And do you think that's because they're trying to
stop people from coming inthere?
Or do you think it's just allover the world?
Just that is?
You know, when you deal withgovernment, it is what it is.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
I don't think so much , not as much in Spain as in
other places that I've heard of.
It's more that, as usual, thegovernment, people who work for
government, the bureaucrats theybasically got tenure.
It's very, very difficult forthem to ever get fired, so they
(11:06):
just take their time.
I mean, if you don't do ittoday, you'll do it tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
You know it's a very… yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Yeah, it's more that.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
That brings me to the thing.
Are the legendary Spanishsiestas?
Are they real?
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Yes, they are.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
They've got something to do with it.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Especially in the small towns.
It is perfectly normal forshops to basically close between
1 and 2, usually until about 4or so, and then open again from
like, from four to eight.
So again, we've got that.
That.
That, oh, and nine, nine, 30,10, you can forget about
(11:54):
anything happening before thattime.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Um, it's, it's very much a a night nighttime culture
here as well, Just like inPortugal.
Uh, they love their fiestas.
You know their feast days.
Uh, each little town has gottheir own, uh particular towns
things and I mean, if it's notfireworks in our town, it will
(12:20):
be the town won over, especiallyin summer.
I mean, just about every nightthere's some kind of party going
on somewhere.
So yeah, and all of those arefree.
I mean the fiestas in the towns.
It's in the town centre,They've got music and they've
got fireworks and they've gotall kinds of things.
So yeah, definitely they enjoytheir life a lot more Like the
(12:47):
quality of living.
Yeah, the quality of life isdefinitely better, for me at
least, because I mean we wereused to working and going home
and basically just staying homeat night, you know, just staying
(13:10):
home at night, you know, uh,whereas here it's completely
normal to just walk around townlike even one in the morning.
There's everyone's doing it,everyone's relaxed, they.
I didn't even realize how muchfear I was living in until after
about a year that I was hereand I stopped just looking
around me with it and clashingmy bag the way you know.
(13:34):
Yeah, wow, that person actuallyleft their cell phone on the
outside cafe table and they'vegone inside and nobody's even
looking at the cell phone yeahand it's still there when they
(13:54):
came out.
it's stuff like that, it's, it'sa, it's a mind mindset shift
for sure.
Yeah, and it's definitelyeasier for me to go and visit my
son in Germany than it was fromSouth Africa.
I mean, my son gifted me myvery first grandson recently,
(14:24):
thinking how awful it would beif I was still in South Africa
because I wouldn't be able toafford to pop over a couple of
times a year.
You know, like I, like I canfrom here.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
No, for sure.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
So, yes, no, I am grateful for the move.
There are things that we missedabout South Africa.
It's weird, you miss thingslike chutney and O'Neill's
biscuits the rice, I mean notthe biscuit, you know.
Yeah, chutney things like thatit's weird.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Is there no South African?
Speaker 2 (15:00):
shops there.
No Again.
I live in a little town and thethings, if you can get them, I
mean like Amazon has got, likeMrs Ball's chutney, for example,
but it's ridiculously expensive.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
They take it for each of us for sure, 100%.
And do you guys make like withthe food and stuff?
Do you make your own biltongand brevors and things like that
?
Speaker 2 (15:29):
No, we are not that handy.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
We're going to have to send you a recipe, for sure.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Yeah, we can definitely give it a try, but of
course, whenever anyone comesto visit, they know what they
have to bring.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Give them a shopping list.
Well, speaking of food, what'sthe food like there?
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Well, I, must tell you that they've got a great
food scene.
Even in this fairly small townwhere we live, you can pretty
much get most kinds of food, notSouth African we still need a
(16:10):
South African to come over andhave a South African traditional
place but anything else,especially Asian food, there's
tons of varieties.
Recently some British peopleopened up the bull and bear, so
that's your pub food just theway they have it in England, and
(16:36):
if you go to any of the citiesnearby, really whatever you're
looking for, you can pretty muchfind yeah, sounds like you'd
need a Nando's and an oceanbasket, though 100%.
We were actually saying just theother day how much we miss
Nando's in particular.
That was definitely one of ourfavorite go-to places in South
(16:59):
Africa and they've got nothinglike Nando's.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
They've got obviously KFC and other things, but not
Nando's or Ocean Basket for surethey seem to be popping up all
over the world, so hopefully youget one there soon, oh that
would be awesome.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Yeah, we definitely support that, for sure.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Yeah, let's just go back a little bit and talk about
your visa process.
Firstly, what visa are you on?
Speaker 2 (17:28):
okay.
Now that's where we are verylucky, because both my husband
and I have Italian parents, sowe both have Italian passports,
so we didn't have to worry aboutthe visas.
And we also had I don't know ifit was foresight, but when our
(17:51):
children were born we had themimmediately registered as
Italians as well.
So we came over here withItalian passports, which meant
that we could actually stay hereand work without needing a visa
at all.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Okay, okay, so pretty lucky.
So have you got dualcitizenship.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Yes, okay, yes, we had dual citizenship because
when our parents moved to SouthAfrica we were kids, but very
young, so we were automaticallybecame South African citizens
and then we could have theItalian passports.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
That's pretty easy, not as lucky as some.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Yeah, I know, like I said, but even with Italian
passports, we couldn't get ourresidency here to get access to
the free healthcare, for example.
All of that was still a trickyprocess to manage and eventually
(19:05):
we actually needed to get alawyer just to get that done.
So, yes, the visa story, andthat is, it's not easy.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Okay, and were there any other challenges?
Moving to Spain?
Was anything complicated or didit seem pretty easy?
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Honestly, for me the hardest thing was the language
barrier.
It's rough not understandingwhat's happening around you and
it kind of felt like, uh, a bitilliterate, you know, not being
able to to read and understandthe signs.
You know what they mean yeah um, I mean, everybody said oh well
(19:53):
, you know, you know Italian, sothis is easy.
Uh, actually, no knowingItalian, actually, no Knowing
Italian made it harder.
As far as I'm concerned, astupid example of butter in
Italian is burro.
In Spain, burro means donkey,oh wow.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Can I have some burro on my bread?
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Uh-huh, exactly, and that's just one of the many fun
things I discovered, and that'sjust one of the many fun things
I discovered.
So, yeah, it might actuallyhave been easier if I didn't
accidentally use Italian words.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Yeah, and in South Africa, booty is a bourgeois
role.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Exactly, exactly, there you go.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Okay, tell me.
I just want to know how's thepublic transport and things like
that?
Is it easy to get around?
Because you know that's alwaysbeen a challenge in South Africa
with public transport andthings like that Is it better
there.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Okay, taxis here are cars, not minibuses, and they
are more affordable than the cartaxis were in South Africa.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Yeah Well, look minibuses.
I think that's a 100% SouthAfrican thing, and the amount of
people we can put in a minibusis a world record, Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Absolutely, absolutely the bus, the actual
buses here are what are likegreyhound buses.
You don't get it like thenormal bus that we used to like
the golden arrow buses.
They're not like that, they'reall luxury buses, even if you're
(21:38):
going from one place to theother.
That's the thing.
Here you can walk your townbecause it's so small.
It's a different way to thinkabout things.
I mean, I used to live inTableview.
It took me over an hour to getto town, and that and we were
(22:02):
still in cape town.
Here an hour is considered along trip for these people
because you are in a differenttown.
If you've been in a car for 10minutes, it's a different way to
look at distances.
So, for example, different wayto look at distances.
(22:30):
So, for example, they've gotthese buses, but the bus
schedule it seems to be more ofa suggestion than an actual bus
schedule.
So yeah, for longer trips Ithink they're a bit more
reliable.
But for me, to go the 10minutes to my nearby town, for
example, there's a bus at around11am and then there isn't
(22:56):
another one for two, three hours.
And to come back home there'sone at around 3pm.
But if you miss that one, thenext one's at 10 past 6.
So not the best, but again, I'mtalking about living in a small
town In Madrid.
(23:19):
It's very, very easy to movearound with public transport.
There's plenty and you've gotlots of different options and
everything.
Uh, what I love is thatliterally I can walk to the
supermarket and to the dentistand to the doctor and basically
every single thing I need tolive my life.
(23:40):
I don't actually need to drive,but you've got a car.
Right, we do.
But here's a fun fact SouthAfrican driver's licenses are
not recognized in Spain.
You are allowed to drive forsix months on your South African
(24:02):
driver's license, after whichyou need to get a Spanish
driver's license, and thatactually means taking the
driving test.
Now, they do say that you couldtake the learner part of it in
(24:23):
English but the truth of thematter is, the translation is so
bad that it's not that simple.
I mean, I don't know if youremember what the learner test
used to be, but they do ask thequestions in a way that's not
really straightforward, and ifyou don't understand the
(24:46):
language well or understandtheir translation, that's not an
easy feat.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
So the answer to your question is yes, we have a car,
but we're just not legallyallowed to drive it at the
moment.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Okay, Well, we won't tell anybody.
All the listeners just forgetthat little fact.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Luckily, our daughter does drive, so she does have a.
She actually got her license inGermany because before she
decided to settle here in Spainshe she lived for some time with
her brother, and in Germany youare allowed to actually swap
(25:36):
your English license for aGerman one.
Okay, so because she was livingin Germany at the time, she was
able to do that, which meansthat she has a German driver's
license which is recognized andshe can legally drive in Spain.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
So at least one person in the family can drive
the cars.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Well, look, I mean, I had to go through the same
process here in America, so Ihad to redo because the South
African license isn't valid yeteither.
So they gave us a couple ofmonths to drive on it.
But then I actually got pulledover and the cop said to me
you've got to go and do yourCalifornia license.
So I had to rewrite thelearners and I thought it was
(26:23):
just the learners and we went inand I did the learners and then
she said okay, now you got todo your main driving test.
And we actually just took achance.
I said, okay, when can I do it?
Can I do it tomorrow?
And I went and did it andpassed.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
It was quite an easy test compared to the K53 that we
used to do test compared to theK53 that we used to do, but
luckily it was in English.
Yeah, that's basically just ahold up.
I mean we really need to getour language up to the level
that we can take this learnings,but otherwise, like I said,
(26:57):
luckily where we live it's not abig deal.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Yeah, and tell me, is the other South African expats
close to you?
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Are you in contact with a lot of other South
Africans?
Not a lot, but we do have acouple of other couples that we
get together with and, yeah,it's great, it's always nice to
hear a South African accent.
There are quite a few of usaround.
But yeah, the difference for myhusband and I, I guess,
(27:35):
compared to some of the otherexpats, is that we didn't have a
large group of friends that wewould interact with a lot
outside of things likeNeighborhood Watch.
We would obviously be part ofthat community or whatever, but
(27:56):
we didn't really go out a lot atall in South Africa.
So we're not used to reallysocializing that much.
We're kind of used to beingquite happy, you know, watching
Netflix.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
It's actually honestly.
I have more friends here and Isocialize more now than I ever
did in South Africa, so that's anice change of pace as well.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Okay, and if you could go back in time and give
yourself one piece of advice,what would it be before moving?
Speaker 2 (28:36):
That's a good one.
Maybe start learning thelanguage before moving?
That would be a nice piece ofadvice and, honestly, duolingo
has been a game changer.
It's really such a fun and easyway to learn.
I just wish I'd known about itbefore I actually moved.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Is that an app?
I think Sorry.
Is that an app?
I think sorry.
Is that an app?
An application?
Yes, okay.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Yeah, it's actually a free app.
They do have the free one.
You've got limited lives, soafter so many mistakes, you have
to wait for your lives torepopulate.
Yeah, but if you want to speedthings up, then you pay a yearly
fee and then you've gotunlimited lives.
(29:28):
So I'm on the paid plan now.
But whether you learn onelanguage or multiples, you can
do do all of them for the samereally low fee.
So I'm actually studying Germanas well because, you know,
having a German grandchild, Ireckon I'd better figure out at
(29:51):
least.
Even if I can't speak it myself, I'd like to at least
understand what they're saying.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
And you speak Afrikaans correct.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Yeah, Again, German and Afrikaans not nearly as
close as people seem to thinkthey are.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Yeah, I was going to say because I thought that was
pretty close.
I know the Netherlands isobviously closest, but yeah,
Does that not help?
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Again.
No, there's an odd word that'ssimilar.
Ironically, there are morewords in german that are english
or closer to english than toafrikaans.
Okay, it's, yeah.
Honestly, the languages havebeen the most surprising thing
(30:41):
for me, because they're not atall as I expected them to be.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Wow, interesting.
And do you ever get them mixedup?
Learning all these languages?
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Oh, of course, of course I mean sometimes I even
forget the English words forthings.
I mean it's quite normal.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
You can go ahead and order donkeys at the restaurant.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
No, I haven't done that, luckily.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
No, that's great, Simona.
I've got one more question foryou and I think I know the
answer to this, but is the grassgreener on the other side?
Speaker 2 (31:16):
You know, like Tanya said, it's not a question of the
grass being greener on one sideor the other side, it's what
you bring to it.
And yeah, like she said, youknow, whatever manure you had,
it's still with you and you caneither use it to fertilize this
new patch or not use it for good.
(31:40):
So, honestly, personally myexperience has been more
positive than negative andalthough obviously there are
things about South Africa that Imiss, I am very happy here and
I'm really glad we made thechange.
But then again, for me this iscoming closer to family, and I
(32:04):
know for a lot of people thehard part is being away from
family.
So that's why my story is maybea little bit different, because
I only left one aunt in SouthAfrica and everyone else is this
side.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Well, that's great, simona.
Thank you for sharing yourstory.
It was absolutely amazing.
Nice, refreshing look on Spain.
Awesome, warren, thank you somuch.
What an amazing conversationwith Simona, from adjusting to
the Spanish culture andnavigating life in Spain.
If you enjoyed this episode,make sure to subscribe and share
it with anyone thinking aboutmaking the move.
(32:43):
And hey, don't forget, we needsponsors to keep South Africans
Abroad going.
If you want to sponsor the show, head over to
saabroadpodcastcom and becomeasponsor.
Also, leave your comments andsuggestions and we'd love to
hear from you.
Simona, thanks again forsharing your story.
It's been a blast and to ourlisteners.
Check you Tuesday.
Welcome back to South Africans Abroad, a show for
expat South Africans and anyoneinterested in the experiences of
those who have made the moveoverseas.
Each episode, we'll hear fromSouth Africans who have left the
country to pursue newopportunities, be with loved
ones or simply follow theirdreams.
We'll explore the challengesand triumphs of life as an expat
and the unique perspective thatcomes with being a South
(00:24):
African abroad.
Life as an expat and the uniqueperspective that comes with
being a South African abroad.
I'm your host, warren Burley,an expat South African who, like
many, followed the dream ofworking overseas.
Whether you're an expatyourself or just curious about
the expat experience, join us aswe delve into the motivations,
struggles and joys of being aSouth African living overseas.
Today we're heading to Spainwith one of our guests, simona,
(00:44):
who made the big move from SouthAfrica to Madrid.
We'll dive into what it's liketrading biltong for tapas,
navigating Spanish culture andthe biggest surprises she's
faced along the way.
If you ever dreamed about lifein Spain, this one's for you.
Let's get into it.
Hi, simona, how are you doing?
Great thanks.
Do you just want to tell us alittle bit about you?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Sure, well, I lived my whole life in Cape Town and I
love Cape Town.
Cape Town's still one of themost beautiful cities in the
world as far as I'm concerned.
When my son was 21, he took offto go and study in Germany and
never came back.
And then, when my daughterfinished higher education in
(01:28):
South Africa, she got a degreein visual communications.
She's also decided to spreadher wings and eventually decided
to settle in Spain.
I was always one of thosepeople that said I would never
leave South Africa.
I liked my life there.
My husband and I were veryinvolved with Neighborhood Watch
(01:50):
and all kinds of things, butwith both our kids in Europe, we
kind of thought you know, whatare we doing here?
What are we doing here?
And uh, especially with thedifference, um, with uh earning
(02:12):
rents and as opposed to earningeuros, that that difference was
becoming harder and harder, forsure.
So, um, yeah, we did made thethe leap, uh, roughly four years
ago, and we chose Spain ratherthan Germany for a couple of
reasons we wanted to be in asmaller town and my son lives in
(02:35):
Frankfurt, and my daughterhappened to have chosen to live
in one of the most beautifulspots in Spain, to live in one
of the most beautiful spots inSpain, which is a Costa Blanca.
We're about one hour away fromValencia on the one side and
Alicante on the other, whichmeans we're basically an hour
(02:55):
away from two big cities withinternational airports.
But where we actually live is avery small town.
That is just wonderful.
I can walk everywhere, doeverything that I need, and if I
want a little bit morenightlife or whatever there's 10
(03:20):
minutes away.
I've got all the fun that Iwant.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
What was your first impression of Madrid?
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Well, I didn't stay in Madrid.
We basically just went throughMadrid and moved straight to
this little town in the provinceof Alicante.
So yeah, we first lived inJavier, which is more of a
touristy place, but theaccommodation there was very
(03:51):
expensive.
So we moved to a little town 10minutes away and we were able
to find a lovely apartment tosettle in.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Okay, and what do you do for a living?
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Well, in South Africa I did all kinds of things.
I was even a tour guide for awhile, but before I left South
Africa I did the course so thatI would be able to teach English
as a foreign language.
So I got certified to do that,which is something that I could
do both online and in person.
I was extremely fortunate inthat my husband actually works
(04:33):
online.
He's a computer websiteprogrammer so he could just
carry on working as he hadbefore for international clients
.
It didn't actually matterwhether we were living in South
(04:55):
Africa or living here.
I never really made it very, letme put it this way.
I did do some teaching, but itnever really got off the ground
because there are actually somany English speaking people
living here that already, yeah,there wasn't really a demand for
an English teacher.
(05:17):
But again, I was really luckythat this gave me the chance to
finally do what I'd alwaysdreamt of doing, which is
writing books.
So my first children's book isdue to be published sometime
this year, probably around June.
(05:37):
I'm also writing a couple ofnovels a couple of novels and in
the meantime, living here inthis small town, we're able to
live on what my husband bringsin, which is not something we
were able to do when we wereboth living in South Africa
working full-time jobs.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Yeah Well, that brings me to a question has the
lifestyle changed, kind of, with, you know, exchange rates and
is things more expensive?
Expensive?
It sounds like it was moreexpensive living in South Africa
.
Um, but how does that?
How does that compare?
Speaker 2 (06:13):
that's actually a very interesting question,
because it was extremely painfulwhen we first arrived because
basically we we sold up.
We, we sold just abouteverything we owned and the
money, the whole nest egg, wastiny after the exchange rate.
(06:36):
So that was a bit of a shock.
For a very small period of timewe were actually millionaires
because we'd sold everything.
But when we came here to Europethat money didn't go far at all
.
But strangely enough again, itreally varies depending on where
(06:57):
you live.
So if we had stayed in Madrid,my story would probably be very
different.
But because we have chosen tolive in a smaller town, we have
actually got a really goodstandard of living, even though
we are in a way earning lessthan we were before, because I
(07:20):
haven't really been earning.
I'm hoping to make some moneywith my books when they
eventually come out, but for thepast four years pretty much
it's only been my husbandbringing money in.
So yes, I would say you know,if you come to Spain, there are
(07:41):
actually many little placeswhere you can have a really good
standard of living for way lessthan you'd expect yeah, and
we've kind of heard that aboutlike portugal.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Like you say, you've heard some of the other podcasts
and um, you've got a lot incommon with uh tanya, um, who's
in portugal.
Uh, one thing she found uhquite difficult was getting into
.
Like you moved into a smalltown was getting into the
culture and the languagebarriers and things in small
towns is it?
Is it the same there?
Speaker 2 (08:14):
it is.
Um, I uh didn't speak anyspanish at all when I got here.
Um, I'm still doing Duolingolessons faithfully every single
day.
It was a bit rough, buthonestly, in this particular
(08:37):
part of Spain there's a hugeEnglish-speaking community.
English speaking community Alittle less now with since
Brexit, but still a lot, becauseeven people from other parts of
Europe, like from theNetherlands or Germany or
(08:58):
whatever they all speak Englishas well.
So a lot of places actuallyhave information in English and
Spanish.
It's not difficult to figureout what you need to do.
So, quite quickly, I foundpeople that could help me Quite
(09:25):
quickly.
I found people that could helpme navigate the things.
One thing I do have to say that, in common with what Tanya said
, the bureaucracy is a nightmare, but it's the same all over.
I mean, most of my familyactually chose to go and live in
(09:48):
Italy and their bureaucracy isjust as bad, if not even worse
than what we've got here inSpain.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
In what way is it bad ?
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Oh, just even to get an appointment to get your
residence papers handed in andthings like that.
If you don't actually hire alawyer to help you, you just
don't get anywhere, and I don'tthink it's any better anyway, to
(10:23):
be honest.
Yeah, just bureaucracy is apain.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
And do you think that's because they're trying to
stop people from coming inthere?
Or do you think it's just allover the world?
Just that is?
You know, when you deal withgovernment, it is what it is.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
I don't think so much , not as much in Spain as in
other places that I've heard of.
It's more that, as usual, thegovernment, people who work for
government, the bureaucrats theybasically got tenure.
It's very, very difficult forthem to ever get fired, so they
(11:06):
just take their time.
I mean, if you don't do ittoday, you'll do it tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
You know it's a very… yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Yeah, it's more that.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
That brings me to the thing.
Are the legendary Spanishsiestas?
Are they real?
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Yes, they are.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
They've got something to do with it.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Especially in the small towns.
It is perfectly normal forshops to basically close between
1 and 2, usually until about 4or so, and then open again from
like, from four to eight.
So again, we've got that.
That.
That, oh, and nine, nine, 30,10, you can forget about
(11:54):
anything happening before thattime.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Um, it's, it's very much a a night nighttime culture
here as well, Just like inPortugal.
Uh, they love their fiestas.
You know their feast days.
Uh, each little town has gottheir own, uh particular towns
things and I mean, if it's notfireworks in our town, it will
(12:20):
be the town won over, especiallyin summer.
I mean, just about every nightthere's some kind of party going
on somewhere.
So yeah, and all of those arefree.
I mean the fiestas in the towns.
It's in the town centre,They've got music and they've
got fireworks and they've gotall kinds of things.
So yeah, definitely they enjoytheir life a lot more Like the
(12:47):
quality of living.
Yeah, the quality of life isdefinitely better, for me at
least, because I mean we wereused to working and going home
and basically just staying homeat night, you know, just staying
(13:10):
home at night, you know, uh,whereas here it's completely
normal to just walk around townlike even one in the morning.
There's everyone's doing it,everyone's relaxed, they.
I didn't even realize how muchfear I was living in until after
about a year that I was hereand I stopped just looking
around me with it and clashingmy bag the way you know.
(13:34):
Yeah, wow, that person actuallyleft their cell phone on the
outside cafe table and they'vegone inside and nobody's even
looking at the cell phone yeahand it's still there when they
(13:54):
came out.
it's stuff like that, it's, it'sa, it's a mind mindset shift
for sure.
Yeah, and it's definitelyeasier for me to go and visit my
son in Germany than it was fromSouth Africa.
I mean, my son gifted me myvery first grandson recently,
(14:24):
thinking how awful it would beif I was still in South Africa
because I wouldn't be able toafford to pop over a couple of
times a year.
You know, like I, like I canfrom here.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
No, for sure.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
So, yes, no, I am grateful for the move.
There are things that we missedabout South Africa.
It's weird, you miss thingslike chutney and O'Neill's
biscuits the rice, I mean notthe biscuit, you know.
Yeah, chutney things like thatit's weird.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Is there no South African?
Speaker 2 (15:00):
shops there.
No Again.
I live in a little town and thethings, if you can get them, I
mean like Amazon has got, likeMrs Ball's chutney, for example,
but it's ridiculously expensive.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
They take it for each of us for sure, 100%.
And do you guys make like withthe food and stuff?
Do you make your own biltongand brevors and things like that
?
Speaker 2 (15:29):
No, we are not that handy.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
We're going to have to send you a recipe, for sure.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Yeah, we can definitely give it a try, but of
course, whenever anyone comesto visit, they know what they
have to bring.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Give them a shopping list.
Well, speaking of food, what'sthe food like there?
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Well, I, must tell you that they've got a great
food scene.
Even in this fairly small townwhere we live, you can pretty
much get most kinds of food, notSouth African we still need a
(16:10):
South African to come over andhave a South African traditional
place but anything else,especially Asian food, there's
tons of varieties.
Recently some British peopleopened up the bull and bear, so
that's your pub food just theway they have it in England, and
(16:36):
if you go to any of the citiesnearby, really whatever you're
looking for, you can pretty muchfind yeah, sounds like you'd
need a Nando's and an oceanbasket, though 100%.
We were actually saying just theother day how much we miss
Nando's in particular.
That was definitely one of ourfavorite go-to places in South
(16:59):
Africa and they've got nothinglike Nando's.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
They've got obviously KFC and other things, but not
Nando's or Ocean Basket for surethey seem to be popping up all
over the world, so hopefully youget one there soon, oh that
would be awesome.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Yeah, we definitely support that, for sure.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Yeah, let's just go back a little bit and talk about
your visa process.
Firstly, what visa are you on?
Speaker 2 (17:28):
okay.
Now that's where we are verylucky, because both my husband
and I have Italian parents, sowe both have Italian passports,
so we didn't have to worry aboutthe visas.
And we also had I don't know ifit was foresight, but when our
(17:51):
children were born we had themimmediately registered as
Italians as well.
So we came over here withItalian passports, which meant
that we could actually stay hereand work without needing a visa
at all.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Okay, okay, so pretty lucky.
So have you got dualcitizenship.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Yes, okay, yes, we had dual citizenship because
when our parents moved to SouthAfrica we were kids, but very
young, so we were automaticallybecame South African citizens
and then we could have theItalian passports.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
That's pretty easy, not as lucky as some.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Yeah, I know, like I said, but even with Italian
passports, we couldn't get ourresidency here to get access to
the free healthcare, for example.
All of that was still a trickyprocess to manage and eventually
(19:05):
we actually needed to get alawyer just to get that done.
So, yes, the visa story, andthat is, it's not easy.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Okay, and were there any other challenges?
Moving to Spain?
Was anything complicated or didit seem pretty easy?
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Honestly, for me the hardest thing was the language
barrier.
It's rough not understandingwhat's happening around you and
it kind of felt like, uh, a bitilliterate, you know, not being
able to to read and understandthe signs.
You know what they mean yeah um, I mean, everybody said oh well
(19:53):
, you know, you know Italian, sothis is easy.
Uh, actually, no knowingItalian, actually, no Knowing
Italian made it harder.
As far as I'm concerned, astupid example of butter in
Italian is burro.
In Spain, burro means donkey,oh wow.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Can I have some burro on my bread?
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Uh-huh, exactly, and that's just one of the many fun
things I discovered, and that'sjust one of the many fun things
I discovered.
So, yeah, it might actuallyhave been easier if I didn't
accidentally use Italian words.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Yeah, and in South Africa, booty is a bourgeois
role.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Exactly, exactly, there you go.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Okay, tell me.
I just want to know how's thepublic transport and things like
that?
Is it easy to get around?
Because you know that's alwaysbeen a challenge in South Africa
with public transport andthings like that Is it better
there.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Okay, taxis here are cars, not minibuses, and they
are more affordable than the cartaxis were in South Africa.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Yeah Well, look minibuses.
I think that's a 100% SouthAfrican thing, and the amount of
people we can put in a minibusis a world record, Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Absolutely, absolutely the bus, the actual
buses here are what are likegreyhound buses.
You don't get it like thenormal bus that we used to like
the golden arrow buses.
They're not like that, they'reall luxury buses, even if you're
(21:38):
going from one place to theother.
That's the thing.
Here you can walk your townbecause it's so small.
It's a different way to thinkabout things.
I mean, I used to live inTableview.
It took me over an hour to getto town, and that and we were
(22:02):
still in cape town.
Here an hour is considered along trip for these people
because you are in a differenttown.
If you've been in a car for 10minutes, it's a different way to
look at distances.
So, for example, different wayto look at distances.
(22:30):
So, for example, they've gotthese buses, but the bus
schedule it seems to be more ofa suggestion than an actual bus
schedule.
So yeah, for longer trips Ithink they're a bit more
reliable.
But for me, to go the 10minutes to my nearby town, for
example, there's a bus at around11am and then there isn't
(22:56):
another one for two, three hours.
And to come back home there'sone at around 3pm.
But if you miss that one, thenext one's at 10 past 6.
So not the best, but again, I'mtalking about living in a small
town In Madrid.
(23:19):
It's very, very easy to movearound with public transport.
There's plenty and you've gotlots of different options and
everything.
Uh, what I love is thatliterally I can walk to the
supermarket and to the dentistand to the doctor and basically
every single thing I need tolive my life.
(23:40):
I don't actually need to drive,but you've got a car.
Right, we do.
But here's a fun fact SouthAfrican driver's licenses are
not recognized in Spain.
You are allowed to drive forsix months on your South African
(24:02):
driver's license, after whichyou need to get a Spanish
driver's license, and thatactually means taking the
driving test.
Now, they do say that you couldtake the learner part of it in
(24:23):
English but the truth of thematter is, the translation is so
bad that it's not that simple.
I mean, I don't know if youremember what the learner test
used to be, but they do ask thequestions in a way that's not
really straightforward, and ifyou don't understand the
(24:46):
language well or understandtheir translation, that's not an
easy feat.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
So the answer to your question is yes, we have a car,
but we're just not legallyallowed to drive it at the
moment.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Okay, Well, we won't tell anybody.
All the listeners just forgetthat little fact.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Luckily, our daughter does drive, so she does have a.
She actually got her license inGermany because before she
decided to settle here in Spainshe she lived for some time with
her brother, and in Germany youare allowed to actually swap
(25:36):
your English license for aGerman one.
Okay, so because she was livingin Germany at the time, she was
able to do that, which meansthat she has a German driver's
license which is recognized andshe can legally drive in Spain.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
So at least one person in the family can drive
the cars.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Well, look, I mean, I had to go through the same
process here in America, so Ihad to redo because the South
African license isn't valid yeteither.
So they gave us a couple ofmonths to drive on it.
But then I actually got pulledover and the cop said to me
you've got to go and do yourCalifornia license.
So I had to rewrite thelearners and I thought it was
(26:23):
just the learners and we went inand I did the learners and then
she said okay, now you got todo your main driving test.
And we actually just took achance.
I said, okay, when can I do it?
Can I do it tomorrow?
And I went and did it andpassed.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
It was quite an easy test compared to the K53 that we
used to do test compared to theK53 that we used to do, but
luckily it was in English.
Yeah, that's basically just ahold up.
I mean we really need to getour language up to the level
that we can take this learnings,but otherwise, like I said,
(26:57):
luckily where we live it's not abig deal.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Yeah, and tell me, is the other South African expats
close to you?
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Are you in contact with a lot of other South
Africans?
Not a lot, but we do have acouple of other couples that we
get together with and, yeah,it's great, it's always nice to
hear a South African accent.
There are quite a few of usaround.
But yeah, the difference for myhusband and I, I guess,
(27:35):
compared to some of the otherexpats, is that we didn't have a
large group of friends that wewould interact with a lot
outside of things likeNeighborhood Watch.
We would obviously be part ofthat community or whatever, but
(27:56):
we didn't really go out a lot atall in South Africa.
So we're not used to reallysocializing that much.
We're kind of used to beingquite happy, you know, watching
Netflix.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
It's actually honestly.
I have more friends here and Isocialize more now than I ever
did in South Africa, so that's anice change of pace as well.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Okay, and if you could go back in time and give
yourself one piece of advice,what would it be before moving?
Speaker 2 (28:36):
That's a good one.
Maybe start learning thelanguage before moving?
That would be a nice piece ofadvice and, honestly, duolingo
has been a game changer.
It's really such a fun and easyway to learn.
I just wish I'd known about itbefore I actually moved.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Is that an app?
I think Sorry.
Is that an app?
I think sorry.
Is that an app?
An application?
Yes, okay.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Yeah, it's actually a free app.
They do have the free one.
You've got limited lives, soafter so many mistakes, you have
to wait for your lives torepopulate.
Yeah, but if you want to speedthings up, then you pay a yearly
fee and then you've gotunlimited lives.
(29:28):
So I'm on the paid plan now.
But whether you learn onelanguage or multiples, you can
do do all of them for the samereally low fee.
So I'm actually studying Germanas well because, you know,
having a German grandchild, Ireckon I'd better figure out at
(29:51):
least.
Even if I can't speak it myself, I'd like to at least
understand what they're saying.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
And you speak Afrikaans correct.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Yeah, Again, German and Afrikaans not nearly as
close as people seem to thinkthey are.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Yeah, I was going to say because I thought that was
pretty close.
I know the Netherlands isobviously closest, but yeah,
Does that not help?
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Again.
No, there's an odd word that'ssimilar.
Ironically, there are morewords in german that are english
or closer to english than toafrikaans.
Okay, it's, yeah.
Honestly, the languages havebeen the most surprising thing
(30:41):
for me, because they're not atall as I expected them to be.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Wow, interesting.
And do you ever get them mixedup?
Learning all these languages?
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Oh, of course, of course I mean sometimes I even
forget the English words forthings.
I mean it's quite normal.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
You can go ahead and order donkeys at the restaurant.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
No, I haven't done that, luckily.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
No, that's great, Simona.
I've got one more question foryou and I think I know the
answer to this, but is the grassgreener on the other side?
Speaker 2 (31:16):
You know, like Tanya said, it's not a question of the
grass being greener on one sideor the other side, it's what
you bring to it.
And yeah, like she said, youknow, whatever manure you had,
it's still with you and you caneither use it to fertilize this
new patch or not use it for good.
(31:40):
So, honestly, personally myexperience has been more
positive than negative andalthough obviously there are
things about South Africa that Imiss, I am very happy here and
I'm really glad we made thechange.
But then again, for me this iscoming closer to family, and I
(32:04):
know for a lot of people thehard part is being away from
family.
So that's why my story is maybea little bit different, because
I only left one aunt in SouthAfrica and everyone else is this
side.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Well, that's great, simona.
Thank you for sharing yourstory.
It was absolutely amazing.
Nice, refreshing look on Spain.
Awesome, warren, thank you somuch.
What an amazing conversationwith Simona, from adjusting to
the Spanish culture andnavigating life in Spain.
If you enjoyed this episode,make sure to subscribe and share
it with anyone thinking aboutmaking the move.
(32:43):
And hey, don't forget, we needsponsors to keep South Africans
Abroad going.
If you want to sponsor the show, head over to
saabroadpodcastcom and becomeasponsor.
Also, leave your comments andsuggestions and we'd love to
hear from you.
Simona, thanks again forsharing your story.
It's been a blast and to ourlisteners.
Check you Tuesday.
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.