May 28, 2024 • 38 mins
Embark on a magical creative odyssey with Trevor Romain, the South African-born American mastermind whose pen breathes life into children's stories and animations. Grappling with his own early academic hurdles, Trevor's rise to international acclaim as an author and animator is a testament to the transformative power of an inspiring English teacher and a relentless writing discipline. Our conversation weaves through the enchanting process of extracting wonder from the mundane and how Trevor's childhood in South Africa has left an indelible mark on his narrative flair. His journey from words to visuals encapsulates not just the evolution of a storyteller but also the tenacity needed to bring vibrant, educational animations to life.
Transitioning across continents, Trevor illuminates the striking contrasts between the advertising landscapes of his homeland and the United States, where he sought the allure of the bustling industry. Music, a muse that often guides his creative spirit, weaves through our discussion on crafting stories. But it's not all smooth sailing; Trevor opens up about the hurdles of establishing oneself amidst the industry giants, debunking myths of American studios, and the resilience required to thrive in the face of cultural and professional upheaval. His anecdotes paint a picture of an artist navigating the tumultuous seas of a career transition during a politically charged epoch.
As we wrap up, the complex tapestry of expat life comes into sharp focus. Trevor shares the poignant tug-of-war between the successes of a new life in America and the yearning for South African roots—a duality many expatriates know all too well. From Rugby World Cup nostalgia to the delicate dance of identity between an accent and assimilation, our dialogue journeys into the heart of what it means to belong. Tune in and be captivated by the stories of someone living between two worlds, intertwining a tale of personal growth, cultural richness, and the universal quest for a place to call home.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome back to South Africans Abroad, a show for
expat South Africans and anyoneinterested in the experiences of
those who have made the moveoverseas.
Each episode we'll hear fromSouth Africans who have left the
country to pursue newopportunities, be with loved
ones or simply follow theirdreams.
We'll explore the challengesand triumphs of life as an expat
and the unique perspective thatcomes with being a South
(00:24):
African abroad.
I'm your host, warren Burley,an expat South African who, like
many, followed the dream ofworking overseas.
Whether you're an expatyourself or just curious about
the expat experience, join us aswe delve into the motivations,
struggles and joys of being aSouth African living overseas.
Today I've got Trevor Romaine.
He's a name synonymous withcreativity, compassion and
(00:46):
storytelling.
Born in South Africa and nowproudly American, trevor has
dedicated his life toentertaining, educating and
inspiring audiences of all ages.
With over 50 books under hisbelt, selling more than a
million copies worldwide andpublished in 24 different
languages, his reach and impactare truly global.
But Trevor's talents don't stopat writing.
He's also a creative forcebehind an award-winning
(01:07):
animation series and asought-after keynote speaker
known for his ability to connectwith both children and adults
on a profound level.
Trevor, how are you doing, man?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Wow, I sound like an interesting guy.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
I can't wait to hear what I've got to say.
Yeah, me too.
Do you want to just tell theaudience a little bit about
yourself, something we haven'tsaid there?
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yeah, I'm a South African born, an American by
choice, mainly because ofcareers.
I couldn't get published inSouth Africa when I was there
and I'm sure we'll get into thisbut I came on a visitor's visa
and didn't leave, so there was alot of ducking and diving and
interesting paperwork that cameafter that but moved to Texas
(01:47):
Austin, texas back in the lastcentury and now I live in Hawaii
and just hunting on.
How long have you been here?
So I've been in the UnitedStates for 36 years.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
That's a long time.
Okay, so let's start at thebeginning here.
What inspired you to startwriting and creating stories?
Was there a particular momentor person that influenced your
decision?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
You know, there was actually when I was in high
school.
I didn't do very well at school.
I'm an ADD guy.
I get absolutely sidetrackedvery easily.
I dodged standard six, whichwas.
It was a tough time.
But when I was in standardeight I had an English teacher.
His name was Paul Klingman.
He was a.
(02:26):
He was also a musician,focusing and did pretty well in
South Africa and he, like a lotof musicians, didn't have, you
know, didn't have best-sellinghits at the time, and taught
English.
And I one day, just because Iwas always buggering around at
school, I said, hey, instead ofwriting an essay, can't I write
a song?
Because I knew he was asongwriter.
(02:47):
And he said, yeah, okay.
So I wrote a song and I got thefirst and only A I ever got was
for English that year and Ikind of started enjoying that
and then started writing storiesabout my friends and created
little vignettes and thought, oh, these could be maybe movies
one day, and that's sort of whatgot the ball rolling.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
So it just snowballed from there and you got over 50
books to your name.
What does the writing processlook like?
Where do you get your ideasfrom?
Speaker 2 (03:17):
firstly, yeah, that's a great, great question.
One of the things that hashelped me with my writing is
that when I was in South Africain my early 20s, I worked in the
advertising business.
I was a copywriter and what Ifound was that when you needed
to write, you sit down and do itright.
And to this day, when I'mcreating something, it's become
(03:38):
a habit.
I write every day, I sit downand I do it, and the ideas just
come from stuff I see around me.
I try to look at things from adifferent point of view instead
of just straight on, and there'salways a story or a lie or
something in every situation andI try and find that sort of
magical part of the situationand have kept on writing, and
(04:01):
mainly children's books is howit all started.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
And how did your South African roots influence
your storytelling?
Speaker 2 (04:06):
There were so many different facets of South Africa
growing up.
I remember my nanny when I wasa kid.
She would tell us the beststories and she would do all
these great sort of folk storiesabout when she grew up and it
was incredible to listen to hertelling those stories and I was
fascinated.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
She inspired me, yeah and I know you got an
award-winning animation series.
Is that based on the books?
Speaker 2 (04:29):
that's uh based on yes, on a book series.
I wrote um and it was one ofthose things that you can try so
hard to do something sobrilliant and then you do
something.
That's just ridiculous and itworks.
I wrote a book called how to dohomework without Without
Throwing Up.
It's very simple, because Iwish I would have had a book
like that, and when that booksold, I was approached by PBS to
(04:50):
do an animated series based onthat series of books how to Do
Homework Without Throwing Up.
Stress can really get on yournerves if you don't take care of
your body real, so you're goingto live that kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
And transitioning from books to animation.
What challenges did you facealong the way?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
The imagination comes up with so many things, but the
hands can only do so much.
So I really had to pare stuffdown and luckily worked with a
really good animation companywho could see.
You know what I was trying todo.
I think one of the thingsthat's been helpful for me in
(05:27):
all facets of creativity is Ishow the movie in my head and
then I write out what I'm seeing, I see in movies.
It's really interesting andeven soundtracks in my brain.
So when I do write it out, Idescribe what I'm seeing and
what I'm hearing, and that helpsthem to be able to then put
that into moving pictures.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
And that's probably what helps your unique ability
to connect with children right.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
You know, when I share a storywith a kid and I am describing
something, I see they are reallyopen.
As we get older, we reallyclose ourselves from the magic
of creativity.
We tell ourselves we're notcreative or I can't draw a
straight line.
You know, I don't think Picassocould even draw a straight line
.
So it's just a matter of beingable to, you know, open your
(06:15):
mind to receive the information.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
And what do you think is the key to effectively
communicating with youngaudiences?
Because I think everybody hasthat problem, you know, as a
parent communicating with yourkids and you seem I mean, I've
watched a couple of yourpresentations and stuff and you
seem to have that ability tocontrol kids, should we say.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Yeah, warren, I try to speak to them in their own
language.
Okay is really important is,you know, most of our time as
adults, we tell kids what wethink they need to hear, instead
of listening to what they'reasking for.
Oftentimes they're asking forvalidation of what they are
(06:54):
feeling.
You know, we, what do we say tokids all the time?
Oh, it's going to be okay, it'sgoing to be okay.
That doesn't make it okay.
It makes them feel, oh, thisperson doesn't know what I'm
going through because they'rejust telling me it's going to be
okay.
So what I try to do is hearwhat they are going through
whether it's culturally at themoment or at school or what's
(07:15):
going on in the world, and beingable to talk to them about it
in their language and validate.
I'll give you a really quickexample.
I've spent a lot of time withterminally ill children and for
some reason I got a gift fromthe CEO in the heavens who made
it okay for me to feelcomfortable in sometimes really
dire situations.
(07:36):
So I'm not uncomfortable to bewith a terminally ill child in
the hospital.
I've seen 47 kids through endof life being there in the
hospital.
I've seen 47 kids through endof life being there.
Often what I do is I sit withthose kids and we chat.
And I was sitting with a littleboy one day and I'll make this
a really brief story but heasked me what was going to
happen when he died.
(07:56):
He was about 12 or 13 years old.
I was about to answer him whenhis mom jumped off the chair,
ran over to the bed and saiddude, you're not going to die.
We've spent $375,000 to keepyou alive.
You will not die.
And he looks at me and shrugsand his mom leaves the room and
I said listen, dude, we're allgoing to die one day.
(08:17):
I'm going to die, you're goingto die.
He said I know I'm not stupid.
So I said well, I'll tell youwhat if you die from this
disease.
You know, when you're a littleboy, when you get to heaven, ask
for my grandpa.
His name is Ted.
And he looks at me like I'mabsolutely mad.
He goes what do you mean?
I said no, my grandpa died along time ago, but he's such a
great dude, you go find him.
(08:37):
He'll get you checked in.
He'll get you a good room.
He is an amazing dude.
He looks at me and I was in apanic.
He goes.
How am I going to find him?
You know, a million people diedin the war.
I said, hang on.
I took out my journal.
I drew a picture of my grandpa,who was a farmer in the free
state and a little mustache thatcurled up in the ends.
(08:58):
And I drew the picture, gave itto the kid.
He looked at it and he said, oh, he looks nice.
I said, yeah, you just get holdof him, memorize this picture.
He put it on the little pinningboard next to his bed and I
would go in there every day,tease the dude, and he would
point to the picture of mygrandpa and say I want to tell
your grandpa you teased me, okay.
Six months later, sadly, victor,he passed away and his parents
(09:19):
asked me if I would deliver theeulogy at the church.
And, being a churchgoer per se,I sort of wasn't very familiar
with the Catholic church wherethey had his funeral and they
had an open casket ceremony,which they do here in the United
(09:41):
States, and I was like, oh mygoodness, I've never seen an
open casket ceremony.
I didn't want to look at thelittle boy in the United States
and I was like, oh my goodness,I've never seen the open casket
ceremony.
I didn't want to look at thelittle boy in the coffin, so I
skirted past it and went and satin the pew.
The priest did his thing and heasked me to deliver the eulogy.
And I get up and I'm talkingabout what a great kid this was
and wonderful guy he was.
I did stand-up comedy and it wasreally it was.
(10:02):
The congregation had a greattime and we laughed and
remembered the boy.
And then I looked over at himand I froze because he was lying
in the coffin.
All his toys were in thesebaseball mitts, legos and
flowers and everything.
And he was lying there.
He was wearing a black tuxedowith a little red bow tie, his
head was bald from thechemotherapy and he was lying
(10:23):
there and in his hand he washolding that picture of my
grandfather.
And I realized there and thenthat all that little boy needed
was validation of where he was,which is way more comforting
than telling somebody don'tworry, it's going to be okay.
(10:45):
Right, and I think there was along way of answering your
question of connecting with kids.
It's just to meet them wherethey are and be honest, because
we bullshit kids a lot.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Yeah Well, that's quite amazing.
Actually, that's an amazingstory.
I think it takes a lot ofstrength to do something like
that, because, I mean, nobodyfeels comfortable being around
too many ill people, especiallykids.
I think it's got to beespecially hard.
So I take my hat off to youthere and tell me, is that what
(11:19):
your presentations are about?
Connecting with kids and thingslike that.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
The school presentations.
I do so.
I do assemblies at school and Icall it stand-up comedy and
really what I do is it's almoststand-up comedy style but I
deliver information in betweento the kids about dealing with
homework, about dealing withconnecting with parents, about
dealing with bullies and griefand it's a whole.
(11:42):
It's a 45-minute presentationbut it's got all of that stuff
wrapped in.
You know the kids are laughingreally hard and then I have
found that once you laugh andexpress yourself, you're a
little bit more open to receivethe information that I'm sharing
in between all the laughter andthe fun.
So it's really it's basicallystorytelling that's linked with
(12:05):
humorous connections.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
really it looks like you inspire a lot of adults as
well.
It's not just children.
How do you balance creatingcontent that resonates with both
kids and adults?
Speaker 2 (12:14):
That's also such a great question.
I'm a 14-year-old trapped in anold dude's body.
I tell my wife that all the timeand it's so true because I
don't feel my age.
But I think one of the thingsis I really try to when I write
(12:35):
or when I create, I try to feelit as opposed to doing what I
think the general public wantsor needs or I'm going to sell.
So if I see, oftentimes I'llhear a song that's very moving
and adult-wise, I'll write astory or come up with a novel or
screenplay or whatever it isthat's been inspired by whatever
(12:55):
I hear, you know, sometimes youcan hear a very moving song.
And then when I see kidsplaying and I see 6, 7, 8, 10,
12-year-olds how they stillbelieve that maybe if they try
hard enough they can fly likemaybe they could, and they're
still open to sharing storiesand ideas and fantasy and I love
that because then I just letthe inner child do that
(13:18):
connection Okay.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Well, I'm going to share that with my wife for sure
.
Let's go back to South Africa.
You mentioned in the beginningabout your travels over here,
and it came with a lot ofchallenges, and do you want to
just talk to us a little bitabout, firstly, what made you
decide to come over?
Tell us a little bit about thatjourney.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
So, being in the advertising business in South
Africa, you know we read a lotof advertising magazines from
the US and you know we gotinvolved in a lot of the US
advertising, watching theircommercials and what have you,
because at that time ourcommercials had just started
airing on TV.
(13:59):
So when I was in the adbusiness I looked at the stuff
that was going on in the US andI was like, oh my goodness, that
stuff is so exciting, I wouldlove to go to this.
At that time I started writingchildren's books.
I was directing TV commercialsat that time and writing.
But children's books werefascinating to me because at
that time I was directing TVcommercials at that time and
writing.
But children's books werefascinating to me because at
that time I was starting to readRoald Dahl's children's books
(14:22):
and I thought, man, this is justfun stuff, shel Silverstein.
So I started sending offapplications for some of the
books that I'd written to SouthAfrican publishers and at that
time that was the early 80s itwas just all political.
It was right in the middle ofthat turmoil and I just didn't
(14:43):
feel like I was fitting in interms of my career.
A friend of my mom's lived inAustin, texas, and I decided to
go on holiday and while I wasthere I found my people, the
advertising community and thecreative community that I
couldn't quite launch into inSouth Africa, and connected with
(15:04):
some people who really openedsome doors.
But the problem was that I wason a visitor's visa and in those
days you had a little whitepiece of paper that was stapled
into your passport that said howlong you could be there, and I
think it was like three monthsor something.
Well, I just didn't go home.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Hang on, let's come back to that, because I think
that's quite an interestingstory.
I think there's a lot morepeople out there that have done
the same thing withoutmentioning it, so we're going to
come back to that.
But firstly, I want to talkabout the advertising industry.
I was in post-production uh,also doing commercials every day
.
The one thing I want to talkabout is we all looked at
american advertising.
(15:44):
It's like, oh my god, they gotyou know the can awards and this
award and these you knowcommercials are amazing.
I need to come over here to seethe worst advertising I've ever
seen in my life.
I still, to this day I've beenhere for 10 years I still
haven't seen anything that'saward worthy on TV.
(16:06):
So how did you find that?
Speaker 2 (16:09):
working in the ad agency there there were
brilliant and still arebrilliant creatives.
I came to the US because Ithought there would be more
opportunity and I worked forsome great agencies in South
Africa.
I worked at Saatchi and Saatchi, which was called Wrightford
Sewell Trip.
In those days I worked for BBDand I worked for a bunch of cool
(16:33):
agencies and Ogilvy came to theUS.
One of the reasons I landed upwriting books was that I
couldn't get a job in an agencyhere because they told me that
my work was too European, toosoft sell.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
They said because yeah, they're very hard sell,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
We told stories doing our commercials in South Africa
and I was very lucky, I won afew clear awards and whatever
for copywriting commercials andmy idea was that, oh, I'm
brilliant man, I'm going to goto the US and I'm going to get a
job in a fat agency in New Yorkand it's going to be great.
But I couldn't.
(17:12):
I couldn't find work becausethey told me my stuff was too
European.
You know, I remember somebodyshowed me a commercial here and
it was just a dude screamingabout selling cars.
You know, fast Eddie, whateverhis name was.
And yes, I agree with you.
Just to be totally blunt, Ithink the commercials here are
cuck in general.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Do you think it's because they've evolved in the
commercial industry, where itused to all be about
storytelling but then the clientjust wants look, I'm selling a
pizza.
I want to know what's on thepizza and how much it costs.
Do you think that's a?
Speaker 2 (17:45):
client thing I think it is, and I think what happens
is let's mention the product'sname as much as possible, show
it and just hammer it away.
There's the short attentionspan, so even in 30 seconds it's
like you can't tell a story.
Then you look at some of thebrilliant South African
commercials, you look at some ofthe commercials for Cremora and
(18:06):
what have you?
They told a story.
You got involved in thecharacter.
It was a story arc, there was abeginning, there was a conflict
.
Basically it was a resolutionin 30 seconds.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
They did that brilliantly and we had one logo
at the end.
And also, if the client wantedto put in two logos, it was like
a big thing in studio.
It was like no, no, no, no,it's not about the logo, it's
about the story.
And over here it's just logo,logo, shout, shout, shout it is
shot and you know what's.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
What's even making it worse now is because of things
like like tech talk and, uh,instagram, it's like we could
just flash stuff as quick aspossible.
Yeah, uh, and, and even youknow texting and what it just it
makes it all chopped and choppy.
Yeah, and I, I can tell you I Idon't watch television anymore.
(18:52):
I sort of mainly do streamingnow.
But when I do happen to see ads, sometimes I don't even know
what the product is because, youknow, especially the drug, the
drug ones.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
It's like you're just seeing this logo, but I don't
know what 15 seconds of ad, 45seconds of how it's going to
kill you exactly and said andthen you hear a car commercial
where half the radio commercialthere's a high-speed voice
telling you void whereprohibited.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Tax, title and license not included.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
I mean another thing as well.
I had studios back home, like Imentioned, but my studio was
always based on the movies.
So like I'd look at a movie anda studio in the movie and go,
oh my God, that studio isamazing, you know, try and match
it.
And then, coming over here, Iwent for a couple of interviews
when I first got here to studiosand I was like, oh my god, like
how do you work in this place?
Yeah, some of the places weresmall as a cupboard, you know,
(19:41):
no windows.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
It was disgusting I think one of the things that I
also have found very surprisinghere when I came is that I uh,
when my books first startedgetting a bit of traction and I
got started to get interviews,you would go to a TV station and
the way it looks on TV it lookslike this big, vast set where
they're being.
It's just a thing with thegreen screen down the back,
(20:03):
people sitting in this crampedlittle table and people not
particularly interested, cableseverywhere.
And then all of a sudden theyinterview you and the dudes
haven't even done their homework, they don't even know who the
hell you are.
But they've got this littlescript and you've got your two
minutes and then you bugger offand that's it and they move on.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
It's all the Hollywood bullshit.
Believe me, Absolutely.
So we digressed a little bitthere.
I think it's time we talk aboutyour journey.
So let me hear a little bitabout that visa story.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
That sounds quite interesting when I went to
austin there happened to be agroup of south african dudes
living there.
They were all about about myage, we were all in our just
about turning 30 ish, and theywere good guys.
There there was a.
They played touch rugby everyafternoon on the soccer field
there and I sort of went andplayed with them a little bit
(20:56):
and they were up up to no good,those guys, because they had
figured out that to have a bankaccount you have to have a
social security number, and sowhat they would do is they
applied for social securitycards and on the card is stamped
not for work I can't rememberthe exact words, but it was
something like not foremployment or something.
And then what these dudes woulddo is they'd conveniently lose
(21:19):
the card, apply for a new one,because they'd lost the first
one and the second one came backwithout the stamp.
So these dudes all of a suddenhad social security cards.
But what happened is Ioverstayed my welcome for a long
time.
I was lucky enough that afriend of my mom's sort of put
(21:41):
me up in her house andeventually I started working for
a little ad agency and the dudewas he did ads for all the
1-900 numbers back in the daywith all those.
You know that you'd call MissCleo and the hotline and she'd
read your, your, your fortune,and you know they would charge
you 90 bucks for the call Anyway.
(22:02):
So, he, he, I sort of paid me alittle bit under the table at
the time and he, and eventuallywhat happened was I found out
that there was that exceptionalmerit clause.
I don't know what they call itnow, but if you have done
something exceptional, you canget it.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Extraordinary abilities or whatever.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Yeah yeah, and I was very lucky that I'd won a bunch
of Clios and I applied and I gota two-year extension to be able
to stay.
And you know, ducking anddiving and popping in and out of
Mexico was just at the borderwas enough to be able to get
that sorted out During that time.
(22:46):
During those two years, I metmy wife and, as we both say, I
married her for convenience andwe still married 35 years later,
34 years later, but it just itmade it easier, uh to to get a
green card then, which which iswhat I did and uh, that was the
(23:08):
story.
But it was difficult at thebeginning.
I was actually going through.
Really.
It was really difficult becauseI didn't have money for food and
in fact, there's a grocerystore chain in Texas called HEB.
They were the really coolgrocery store and I would go in
there, push the trolley, youknow, load up the cart and I
would eat a sandwich and thenI'd eat an apple and a banana,
(23:30):
even had a couple of beerssometimes and then we'd just
leave the cart and walk out ofthe store and about two years
after that, when I finally gotall my paperwork and everything
sorted out, I sent them a checkfor a couple of hundred bucks
and said look, when I was hungryI took some food without
permission and I want to pay itback, but they never cashed the
(23:52):
check.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Oh okay, Did they at least reach out to?
Speaker 2 (23:54):
you?
No, they didn't.
They didn't reach out, theydidn't say anything.
But that was 35 years ago.
So whatever it is, who knows.
But one of the things that wasvery difficult at that time then
was when my wife and I gotmarried, I had to go back to
South Africa to get my paperwork, to get the x-rays and the TB
(24:18):
and the police clearance.
And I had to get militaryclearance because I'd done my
two years in national serviceand I still owed a few camps.
I think we had to do five campsand I'd just done a few.
So that was quite hard to getthe clearance from the South
African Defense Force.
But I managed to do that.
(24:39):
And then came back to the US andthen, like some of the people
who you've spoken to, I had todo that interview.
Drive down to San Antonio withmy wife.
That put us in separate roomsand the first thing they asked
me was what's yourmother-in-law's address?
And I was like I didn't knowbecause I would just drive there
.
I didn't know what the addresswas.
(25:01):
Most people drive fast there.
Exactly it's like, hey, I'm notgoing in there.
In the end the guy said youknow, I didn't really need to
ask you these questions becauseI knew your whole thing was
legit.
I said how he said we've got aone-way mirror in the reception
and we had to bring our weddingalbum and pictures of our
honeymoon and we had gone toGreece and while we were in the
(25:23):
waiting room we were lookingthrough the pictures and
pointing and I remember that,remember this and he said well,
when we saw that we knew youguys were legit, but we still
had to ask you.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
They're full of secrets, eh, and you weren't
scared that they were going todeport you, oh, petrified.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Yeah, I was deportable and we were
scrambling thinking, okay, well,will she come to South Africa?
She was at university at thetime getting her master's and I
was like I could just interruptthe whole thing.
But I did retain a lawyer atthat time by suggestion and she
(25:57):
was really good.
In those days Al Gore hadn'tinvented the internet yet.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
So it was very difficult to just try and then
phone and get an appointment,and all the paperwork had to
come by mail.
By the way way, we need thisbirth certificate, you know.
Then I have to phone my mom andtell her in south africa, can
you send this?
It's going to be thisunabridged birth certificate and
it has to have this stamp on it.
(26:26):
And then, of course, the mailtook two weeks or three weeks.
In those days that was a bit ofa pain in the hell nothing's
forced when you need somethingurgent.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
There it sounds like while you were going through
this process, you went throughsome hardship.
Why did you never think aboutgoing back home?
Speaker 2 (26:41):
I think because I'd started getting traction in my
career, I could see the light atthe end of the tunnel.
I knew that if I really workedhard I'd be able to at least
follow my dreams to a certainextent.
I'd be able to at least followmy dreams to a certain extent
and I'd given myself a deadline.
I said if I hadn't got anythingpublished because at that time
I was really starting to do thebooks if I hadn't got anything
(27:04):
published or if I was stillsickling, getting the right kind
of job, I would go back.
But what happened was that thatfirst book, after 400
rejections, my first book, gotaccepted.
And the high from that isunbelievable, especially when
you really, really believe thatwhat you're doing is what you're
(27:29):
supposed to do and I meanthat's been my mission for a
long time was to help kids.
Once that happened it was, youknow, the light in the tunnel
got brighter and it wasn't atrain coming towards me.
So it was very alluring, andthe more I sort of was able,
(27:52):
just through climbing up thesteps.
You know, there's that oldAfrican proverb little by little
a little becomes a lot.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
I just I nudged and look.
It wasn't easy and, as I'veheard from a lot of people that
you've interviewed, you know yougo through that.
It's almost tipping point Likegeez, do I stay, do I go?
It's almost tipping point likegeez, do I stay, do I go?
I don't know very many SouthAfricans, expats, who have not
(28:21):
deeply longed for home.
There is a certain magic toSouth Africa, I know.
For me personally, you knowsometimes I'll see a deep blue
sky here and it triggers thispain in your chest of longing.
But what I've also found out isthat a lot of what I long for
(28:43):
is not necessarily South Africa.
I long for my coming of agebecause that was a time that was
just amazing and it justhappened to be in an amazing
place look.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
I mean we could never get south africa out of our
veins, that's for sure.
You know it's a, it's a trulyunique place, and I think anyone
who says they come up here andI forget about south africa is
talking absolute crap, becausethere's nowhere else in the
world like africa I've heard alot of people also say that what
they miss is the people in it.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
It is unique, it's a very special place and, you know
, I think at times like when Iwatched the World Cup, that's
when you have a.
They're your people, it'scamaraderie.
Especially when you watchdocumentaries like Chasing the
Sun or whatever, you almost feelsometimes that you kind of let
(29:37):
the team down by not being there.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Okay, so let me ask you do you ever feel guilt about
leaving, especially likewatching the Rugby World Cup,
like a lot of people go?
Oh, you're not really SouthAfrican anymore.
Do you ever feel any of thatguilt?
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Well, one of the hardest things for me has been
I'm the only person in my familywho moved here.
I have a brother, a sister,nieces, nephews.
My mom, bless her heart, isstill alive at 88 years old in
Joburg.
And I have a lot of guilt ofand it's really interesting
because it's almost like I feelguilty that I've done well, like
(30:11):
I feel guilty that I've donewell.
It sounds really strange but italmost feels like I, you know,
and none of them have wanted tocome here.
They've come on holiday andthat right, my but has only come
a couple of times.
You know, a lot of people say,well, why don't you just bring
your family?
(30:32):
No, there's a whole 10-yearprocess to get there and, quite
honestly, my brother and sisterthey like living there, they
don't want to come here, butthey didn't have the career
aspirations, the type of careerthat I do.
I always say that I'm a SouthAfrican, you know, and an
American by choice.
(30:52):
But I'm very proudly SouthAfrican and I've got into a lot
of cuck because people say, well, if you, you know, you're an
American now, and I'm like, no,I'm not, I'm just a South
African living in America, andthey say, well, you know, you
should sort of you know, becomean American.
(31:12):
Why don't you even sound likeone?
I'm like geez.
You should, sort of you know,become an American.
Why don't you even sound likeone?
I'm like geez.
That's the hottest accent inthe world.
I can't.
I feel uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
I think that's a choice, though I mean, I've
spoken to some people that havebeen here for two weeks and got
an accent.
Yeah, I think that's definitelya choice.
I don't think I'll ever changemy accent.
No, I love my am.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Exactly, I am too, and funnily enough, the accent
has opened a lot of doors for mein terms of you know, you phone
up somewhere and you're askingfor information and they say,
hey, where are you from?
And that's a door opener, andI'm sure you've had that
experience too.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
I've actually had both sides of the spectrum.
So I've actually been to jobinterviews where the guys openly
said, look, we've got to hire alocal.
And I am local, I'm a citizen,and he's like, yeah, but the
accent and stuff like that, youknow we have to hire a local.
And that's the first time I'veever experienced anything like
that.
And then I've also had, like,you go to the shop and they're
like where are you from, loveyour accent, where are you from,
(32:10):
love your accent?
And a lot of people love theaccent here.
And then also you speak on thephone.
Some people just refuse tounderstand what you're saying,
which I don't understand becauseyou're speaking English right.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
I had the experience just a few months ago with my
business partner.
He's a Dinkum Texan.
He talks like this, he's got areal sure kind of accent.
I was like, oh, he's a good oldboy, you know, great guy.
We were at a waffle housesomewhere in the northeast,
(32:46):
somewhere in the Carolinas, andwe're going for breakfast and
the woman says hi, honey, whatcan I get you?
I said can I have water withoutany ice please?
She looks at me.
She says what I said can Iplease have some water without
any ice?
She looks at my businesspartner.
She says I don't know what he'sasking.
She couldn't understand me.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
That's also about stepping out of the box, though
they don't normally hear that.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Yeah, and why would anybody want water without ice?
Are you mad?
Speaker 1 (33:15):
So do you ever go back then?
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Yeah, I try to go back every year if I can.
Covid, obviously, like for alot of us, buggered it all up.
Yeah, I try to go back and whenI do go back I just I wallow in
it and you know, having familythere and I wrote a book
(33:38):
actually two book series calledRandom Cock.
I remember about growing up inSouth Africa, which sort of
maybe aimed at the generationthat came of age in the 70s and
80s, and I often get asked tocome back and do interviews or
radio interviews or what haveyou.
And going back is really fun tobe able to go and share my
memories of the times when youcould hitchhike, which was a
(34:03):
story unto itself.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
It sounds like you've done everything you wanted to
do.
You've written books, you dopresentations, you've got
animation series.
I mean, you've done it allright.
What's next for you?
I mean, are there up-and-comingprojects that you want to share
with us?
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Yeah, I'm working on a book of short stories, but I
also currently work on this.
There's an orphanage justoutside of Johannesburg in the
Mechalinsburg that a friend ofmine started in 1990.
It's been going since then.
There's 300 kids that livethere and I raise money for the
orphanage here and every year Igo back and I spend a couple of
(34:39):
weeks at the orphanage and I'vebeen documenting the kids living
there from when they werelittle and they're all growing
up and I have a project calledwhen Hope Grows and my dream is
to have an exhibition of thosephotographs just to make people
aware that there are these kids,especially now.
(35:03):
The unemployment rate in thatarea is 40 something percent.
They sickle, it's really,really hard and they don't get
government assistance because itall gets pilfered and
disappears.
But this family leftJohannesburg.
They were pretty well off.
They don't get governmentassistance because it all gets
pilfered and disappears.
But these, this family, leftJohannesburg.
They were, they were prettywell off and they decided, right
in the thick of a party, theydecided, no, they wanted to go
(35:24):
and start a school and anorphanage and they did and it's
still going and it's funded byby people like myself and my
friends.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
So I am, and do you have a GoFundMe or anything?
Speaker 2 (35:37):
We have a donation website.
It's called angel-strongorg andit's the most.
If people say to me, if youcould go anywhere right now,
where would you be?
And for me that orphanage isone of the most uplifting places
because, considering what thosekids are going through, you go
(35:59):
in there and this is how I tryand tell Americans about it and
they can't quite grasp it.
You'll go into an orphanage andthose kids come running and
you've got big smiles and bigbrown eyes and lots of hugs and
you know how those little kidsare just great.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Yeah, just share that website one more time if anyone
wants to donate.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Sure, it's angel-strongorg.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Okay, perfect, we'll put it up on the link as well.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
People can get a tax break from that and it's run by
a South African guy in Phoenix.
His name is Mitch Ginsburg agreat guy.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Obviously listen to the podcast, you know.
There's one last questioncoming up.
Is the grass greener on theother side?
Speaker 2 (36:46):
The grass is always greener over the septic tank.
I you know.
Someone else in one of yourpodcasts said it really nicely
and I echo his sentiment.
It was something like there'sgreen patches on both sides and
I think it's the patch that youwant to be on at the time that
(37:10):
works for me.
For me, career wise, itcertainly was.
I don't believe I would havehad 50 books published and been
able to to reach the dreams Ihave over there, but that's not
to say that I wouldn't havecreated different dreams and
maybe done something differently, but different story in terms
of people who want to have abetter life for their family or
(37:32):
what they consider a better lifeor opportunities.
And that wasn't the case for me.
And sometimes, when I gothrough a really bad patch or
feeling sorry for myself orfeeling sad, interestingly
enough the place, the defaultplace, is I want to go to that
Bocciabella orphanage becausethere's a lot of love there.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Trevor, it's been absolutely amazing chatting to
you.
It's been a fun little journey.
Thank you very much, man.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Absolutely.
Thanks so much for chattingwith me.
You made me homesick, dude.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
That's the idea.
Get everyone wanting to go back.
But yes, thanks a lot and goodluck with everything, cheers.
If you're eager to explore morestories of South Africans
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(38:29):
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So until next time, check youTuesday.
Welcome back to South Africans Abroad, a show for
expat South Africans and anyoneinterested in the experiences of
those who have made the moveoverseas.
Each episode we'll hear fromSouth Africans who have left the
country to pursue newopportunities, be with loved
ones or simply follow theirdreams.
We'll explore the challengesand triumphs of life as an expat
and the unique perspective thatcomes with being a South
(00:24):
African abroad.
I'm your host, warren Burley,an expat South African who, like
many, followed the dream ofworking overseas.
Whether you're an expatyourself or just curious about
the expat experience, join us aswe delve into the motivations,
struggles and joys of being aSouth African living overseas.
Today I've got Trevor Romaine.
He's a name synonymous withcreativity, compassion and
(00:46):
storytelling.
Born in South Africa and nowproudly American, trevor has
dedicated his life toentertaining, educating and
inspiring audiences of all ages.
With over 50 books under hisbelt, selling more than a
million copies worldwide andpublished in 24 different
languages, his reach and impactare truly global.
But Trevor's talents don't stopat writing.
He's also a creative forcebehind an award-winning
(01:07):
animation series and asought-after keynote speaker
known for his ability to connectwith both children and adults
on a profound level.
Trevor, how are you doing, man?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Wow, I sound like an interesting guy.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
I can't wait to hear what I've got to say.
Yeah, me too.
Do you want to just tell theaudience a little bit about
yourself, something we haven'tsaid there?
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yeah, I'm a South African born, an American by
choice, mainly because ofcareers.
I couldn't get published inSouth Africa when I was there
and I'm sure we'll get into thisbut I came on a visitor's visa
and didn't leave, so there was alot of ducking and diving and
interesting paperwork that cameafter that but moved to Texas
(01:47):
Austin, texas back in the lastcentury and now I live in Hawaii
and just hunting on.
How long have you been here?
So I've been in the UnitedStates for 36 years.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
That's a long time.
Okay, so let's start at thebeginning here.
What inspired you to startwriting and creating stories?
Was there a particular momentor person that influenced your
decision?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
You know, there was actually when I was in high
school.
I didn't do very well at school.
I'm an ADD guy.
I get absolutely sidetrackedvery easily.
I dodged standard six, whichwas.
It was a tough time.
But when I was in standardeight I had an English teacher.
His name was Paul Klingman.
He was a.
(02:26):
He was also a musician,focusing and did pretty well in
South Africa and he, like a lotof musicians, didn't have, you
know, didn't have best-sellinghits at the time, and taught
English.
And I one day, just because Iwas always buggering around at
school, I said, hey, instead ofwriting an essay, can't I write
a song?
Because I knew he was asongwriter.
(02:47):
And he said, yeah, okay.
So I wrote a song and I got thefirst and only A I ever got was
for English that year and Ikind of started enjoying that
and then started writing storiesabout my friends and created
little vignettes and thought, oh, these could be maybe movies
one day, and that's sort of whatgot the ball rolling.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
So it just snowballed from there and you got over 50
books to your name.
What does the writing processlook like?
Where do you get your ideasfrom?
Speaker 2 (03:17):
firstly, yeah, that's a great, great question.
One of the things that hashelped me with my writing is
that when I was in South Africain my early 20s, I worked in the
advertising business.
I was a copywriter and what Ifound was that when you needed
to write, you sit down and do itright.
And to this day, when I'mcreating something, it's become
(03:38):
a habit.
I write every day, I sit downand I do it, and the ideas just
come from stuff I see around me.
I try to look at things from adifferent point of view instead
of just straight on, and there'salways a story or a lie or
something in every situation andI try and find that sort of
magical part of the situationand have kept on writing, and
(04:01):
mainly children's books is howit all started.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
And how did your South African roots influence
your storytelling?
Speaker 2 (04:06):
There were so many different facets of South Africa
growing up.
I remember my nanny when I wasa kid.
She would tell us the beststories and she would do all
these great sort of folk storiesabout when she grew up and it
was incredible to listen to hertelling those stories and I was
fascinated.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
She inspired me, yeah and I know you got an
award-winning animation series.
Is that based on the books?
Speaker 2 (04:29):
that's uh based on yes, on a book series.
I wrote um and it was one ofthose things that you can try so
hard to do something sobrilliant and then you do
something.
That's just ridiculous and itworks.
I wrote a book called how to dohomework without Without
Throwing Up.
It's very simple, because Iwish I would have had a book
like that, and when that booksold, I was approached by PBS to
(04:50):
do an animated series based onthat series of books how to Do
Homework Without Throwing Up.
Stress can really get on yournerves if you don't take care of
your body real, so you're goingto live that kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
And transitioning from books to animation.
What challenges did you facealong the way?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
The imagination comes up with so many things, but the
hands can only do so much.
So I really had to pare stuffdown and luckily worked with a
really good animation companywho could see.
You know what I was trying todo.
I think one of the thingsthat's been helpful for me in
(05:27):
all facets of creativity is Ishow the movie in my head and
then I write out what I'm seeing, I see in movies.
It's really interesting andeven soundtracks in my brain.
So when I do write it out, Idescribe what I'm seeing and
what I'm hearing, and that helpsthem to be able to then put
that into moving pictures.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
And that's probably what helps your unique ability
to connect with children right.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
You know, when I share a storywith a kid and I am describing
something, I see they are reallyopen.
As we get older, we reallyclose ourselves from the magic
of creativity.
We tell ourselves we're notcreative or I can't draw a
straight line.
You know, I don't think Picassocould even draw a straight line
.
So it's just a matter of beingable to, you know, open your
(06:15):
mind to receive the information.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
And what do you think is the key to effectively
communicating with youngaudiences?
Because I think everybody hasthat problem, you know, as a
parent communicating with yourkids and you seem I mean, I've
watched a couple of yourpresentations and stuff and you
seem to have that ability tocontrol kids, should we say.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Yeah, warren, I try to speak to them in their own
language.
Okay is really important is,you know, most of our time as
adults, we tell kids what wethink they need to hear, instead
of listening to what they'reasking for.
Oftentimes they're asking forvalidation of what they are
(06:54):
feeling.
You know, we, what do we say tokids all the time?
Oh, it's going to be okay, it'sgoing to be okay.
That doesn't make it okay.
It makes them feel, oh, thisperson doesn't know what I'm
going through because they'rejust telling me it's going to be
okay.
So what I try to do is hearwhat they are going through
whether it's culturally at themoment or at school or what's
(07:15):
going on in the world, and beingable to talk to them about it
in their language and validate.
I'll give you a really quickexample.
I've spent a lot of time withterminally ill children and for
some reason I got a gift fromthe CEO in the heavens who made
it okay for me to feelcomfortable in sometimes really
dire situations.
(07:36):
So I'm not uncomfortable to bewith a terminally ill child in
the hospital.
I've seen 47 kids through endof life being there in the
hospital.
I've seen 47 kids through endof life being there.
Often what I do is I sit withthose kids and we chat.
And I was sitting with a littleboy one day and I'll make this
a really brief story but heasked me what was going to
happen when he died.
(07:56):
He was about 12 or 13 years old.
I was about to answer him whenhis mom jumped off the chair,
ran over to the bed and saiddude, you're not going to die.
We've spent $375,000 to keepyou alive.
You will not die.
And he looks at me and shrugsand his mom leaves the room and
I said listen, dude, we're allgoing to die one day.
(08:17):
I'm going to die, you're goingto die.
He said I know I'm not stupid.
So I said well, I'll tell youwhat if you die from this
disease.
You know, when you're a littleboy, when you get to heaven, ask
for my grandpa.
His name is Ted.
And he looks at me like I'mabsolutely mad.
He goes what do you mean?
I said no, my grandpa died along time ago, but he's such a
great dude, you go find him.
(08:37):
He'll get you checked in.
He'll get you a good room.
He is an amazing dude.
He looks at me and I was in apanic.
He goes.
How am I going to find him?
You know, a million people diedin the war.
I said, hang on.
I took out my journal.
I drew a picture of my grandpa,who was a farmer in the free
state and a little mustache thatcurled up in the ends.
(08:58):
And I drew the picture, gave itto the kid.
He looked at it and he said, oh, he looks nice.
I said, yeah, you just get holdof him, memorize this picture.
He put it on the little pinningboard next to his bed and I
would go in there every day,tease the dude, and he would
point to the picture of mygrandpa and say I want to tell
your grandpa you teased me, okay.
Six months later, sadly, victor,he passed away and his parents
(09:19):
asked me if I would deliver theeulogy at the church.
And, being a churchgoer per se,I sort of wasn't very familiar
with the Catholic church wherethey had his funeral and they
had an open casket ceremony,which they do here in the United
(09:41):
States, and I was like, oh mygoodness, I've never seen an
open casket ceremony.
I didn't want to look at thelittle boy in the United States
and I was like, oh my goodness,I've never seen the open casket
ceremony.
I didn't want to look at thelittle boy in the coffin, so I
skirted past it and went and satin the pew.
The priest did his thing and heasked me to deliver the eulogy.
And I get up and I'm talkingabout what a great kid this was
and wonderful guy he was.
I did stand-up comedy and it wasreally it was.
(10:02):
The congregation had a greattime and we laughed and
remembered the boy.
And then I looked over at himand I froze because he was lying
in the coffin.
All his toys were in thesebaseball mitts, legos and
flowers and everything.
And he was lying there.
He was wearing a black tuxedowith a little red bow tie, his
head was bald from thechemotherapy and he was lying
(10:23):
there and in his hand he washolding that picture of my
grandfather.
And I realized there and thenthat all that little boy needed
was validation of where he was,which is way more comforting
than telling somebody don'tworry, it's going to be okay.
(10:45):
Right, and I think there was along way of answering your
question of connecting with kids.
It's just to meet them wherethey are and be honest, because
we bullshit kids a lot.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Yeah Well, that's quite amazing.
Actually, that's an amazingstory.
I think it takes a lot ofstrength to do something like
that, because, I mean, nobodyfeels comfortable being around
too many ill people, especiallykids.
I think it's got to beespecially hard.
So I take my hat off to youthere and tell me, is that what
(11:19):
your presentations are about?
Connecting with kids and thingslike that.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
The school presentations.
I do so.
I do assemblies at school and Icall it stand-up comedy and
really what I do is it's almoststand-up comedy style but I
deliver information in betweento the kids about dealing with
homework, about dealing withconnecting with parents, about
dealing with bullies and griefand it's a whole.
(11:42):
It's a 45-minute presentationbut it's got all of that stuff
wrapped in.
You know the kids are laughingreally hard and then I have
found that once you laugh andexpress yourself, you're a
little bit more open to receivethe information that I'm sharing
in between all the laughter andthe fun.
So it's really it's basicallystorytelling that's linked with
(12:05):
humorous connections.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
really it looks like you inspire a lot of adults as
well.
It's not just children.
How do you balance creatingcontent that resonates with both
kids and adults?
Speaker 2 (12:14):
That's also such a great question.
I'm a 14-year-old trapped in anold dude's body.
I tell my wife that all the timeand it's so true because I
don't feel my age.
But I think one of the thingsis I really try to when I write
(12:35):
or when I create, I try to feelit as opposed to doing what I
think the general public wantsor needs or I'm going to sell.
So if I see, oftentimes I'llhear a song that's very moving
and adult-wise, I'll write astory or come up with a novel or
screenplay or whatever it isthat's been inspired by whatever
(12:55):
I hear, you know, sometimes youcan hear a very moving song.
And then when I see kidsplaying and I see 6, 7, 8, 10,
12-year-olds how they stillbelieve that maybe if they try
hard enough they can fly likemaybe they could, and they're
still open to sharing storiesand ideas and fantasy and I love
that because then I just letthe inner child do that
(13:18):
connection Okay.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Well, I'm going to share that with my wife for sure
.
Let's go back to South Africa.
You mentioned in the beginningabout your travels over here,
and it came with a lot ofchallenges, and do you want to
just talk to us a little bitabout, firstly, what made you
decide to come over?
Tell us a little bit about thatjourney.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
So, being in the advertising business in South
Africa, you know we read a lotof advertising magazines from
the US and you know we gotinvolved in a lot of the US
advertising, watching theircommercials and what have you,
because at that time ourcommercials had just started
airing on TV.
(13:59):
So when I was in the adbusiness I looked at the stuff
that was going on in the US andI was like, oh my goodness, that
stuff is so exciting, I wouldlove to go to this.
At that time I started writingchildren's books.
I was directing TV commercialsat that time and writing.
But children's books werefascinating to me because at
that time I was directing TVcommercials at that time and
writing.
But children's books werefascinating to me because at
that time I was starting to readRoald Dahl's children's books
(14:22):
and I thought, man, this is justfun stuff, shel Silverstein.
So I started sending offapplications for some of the
books that I'd written to SouthAfrican publishers and at that
time that was the early 80s itwas just all political.
It was right in the middle ofthat turmoil and I just didn't
(14:43):
feel like I was fitting in interms of my career.
A friend of my mom's lived inAustin, texas, and I decided to
go on holiday and while I wasthere I found my people, the
advertising community and thecreative community that I
couldn't quite launch into inSouth Africa, and connected with
(15:04):
some people who really openedsome doors.
But the problem was that I wason a visitor's visa and in those
days you had a little whitepiece of paper that was stapled
into your passport that said howlong you could be there, and I
think it was like three monthsor something.
Well, I just didn't go home.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Hang on, let's come back to that, because I think
that's quite an interestingstory.
I think there's a lot morepeople out there that have done
the same thing withoutmentioning it, so we're going to
come back to that.
But firstly, I want to talkabout the advertising industry.
I was in post-production uh,also doing commercials every day
.
The one thing I want to talkabout is we all looked at
american advertising.
(15:44):
It's like, oh my god, they gotyou know the can awards and this
award and these you knowcommercials are amazing.
I need to come over here to seethe worst advertising I've ever
seen in my life.
I still, to this day I've beenhere for 10 years I still
haven't seen anything that'saward worthy on TV.
(16:06):
So how did you find that?
Speaker 2 (16:09):
working in the ad agency there there were
brilliant and still arebrilliant creatives.
I came to the US because Ithought there would be more
opportunity and I worked forsome great agencies in South
Africa.
I worked at Saatchi and Saatchi, which was called Wrightford
Sewell Trip.
In those days I worked for BBDand I worked for a bunch of cool
(16:33):
agencies and Ogilvy came to theUS.
One of the reasons I landed upwriting books was that I
couldn't get a job in an agencyhere because they told me that
my work was too European, toosoft sell.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
They said because yeah, they're very hard sell,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
We told stories doing our commercials in South Africa
and I was very lucky, I won afew clear awards and whatever
for copywriting commercials andmy idea was that, oh, I'm
brilliant man, I'm going to goto the US and I'm going to get a
job in a fat agency in New Yorkand it's going to be great.
But I couldn't.
(17:12):
I couldn't find work becausethey told me my stuff was too
European.
You know, I remember somebodyshowed me a commercial here and
it was just a dude screamingabout selling cars.
You know, fast Eddie, whateverhis name was.
And yes, I agree with you.
Just to be totally blunt, Ithink the commercials here are
cuck in general.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Do you think it's because they've evolved in the
commercial industry, where itused to all be about
storytelling but then the clientjust wants look, I'm selling a
pizza.
I want to know what's on thepizza and how much it costs.
Do you think that's a?
Speaker 2 (17:45):
client thing I think it is, and I think what happens
is let's mention the product'sname as much as possible, show
it and just hammer it away.
There's the short attentionspan, so even in 30 seconds it's
like you can't tell a story.
Then you look at some of thebrilliant South African
commercials, you look at some ofthe commercials for Cremora and
(18:06):
what have you?
They told a story.
You got involved in thecharacter.
It was a story arc, there was abeginning, there was a conflict
.
Basically it was a resolutionin 30 seconds.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
They did that brilliantly and we had one logo
at the end.
And also, if the client wantedto put in two logos, it was like
a big thing in studio.
It was like no, no, no, no,it's not about the logo, it's
about the story.
And over here it's just logo,logo, shout, shout, shout it is
shot and you know what's.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
What's even making it worse now is because of things
like like tech talk and, uh,instagram, it's like we could
just flash stuff as quick aspossible.
Yeah, uh, and, and even youknow texting and what it just it
makes it all chopped and choppy.
Yeah, and I, I can tell you I Idon't watch television anymore.
(18:52):
I sort of mainly do streamingnow.
But when I do happen to see ads, sometimes I don't even know
what the product is because, youknow, especially the drug, the
drug ones.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
It's like you're just seeing this logo, but I don't
know what 15 seconds of ad, 45seconds of how it's going to
kill you exactly and said andthen you hear a car commercial
where half the radio commercialthere's a high-speed voice
telling you void whereprohibited.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Tax, title and license not included.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
I mean another thing as well.
I had studios back home, like Imentioned, but my studio was
always based on the movies.
So like I'd look at a movie anda studio in the movie and go,
oh my God, that studio isamazing, you know, try and match
it.
And then, coming over here, Iwent for a couple of interviews
when I first got here to studiosand I was like, oh my god, like
how do you work in this place?
Yeah, some of the places weresmall as a cupboard, you know,
(19:41):
no windows.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
It was disgusting I think one of the things that I
also have found very surprisinghere when I came is that I uh,
when my books first startedgetting a bit of traction and I
got started to get interviews,you would go to a TV station and
the way it looks on TV it lookslike this big, vast set where
they're being.
It's just a thing with thegreen screen down the back,
(20:03):
people sitting in this crampedlittle table and people not
particularly interested, cableseverywhere.
And then all of a sudden theyinterview you and the dudes
haven't even done their homework, they don't even know who the
hell you are.
But they've got this littlescript and you've got your two
minutes and then you bugger offand that's it and they move on.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
It's all the Hollywood bullshit.
Believe me, Absolutely.
So we digressed a little bitthere.
I think it's time we talk aboutyour journey.
So let me hear a little bitabout that visa story.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
That sounds quite interesting when I went to
austin there happened to be agroup of south african dudes
living there.
They were all about about myage, we were all in our just
about turning 30 ish, and theywere good guys.
There there was a.
They played touch rugby everyafternoon on the soccer field
there and I sort of went andplayed with them a little bit
(20:56):
and they were up up to no good,those guys, because they had
figured out that to have a bankaccount you have to have a
social security number, and sowhat they would do is they
applied for social securitycards and on the card is stamped
not for work I can't rememberthe exact words, but it was
something like not foremployment or something.
And then what these dudes woulddo is they'd conveniently lose
(21:19):
the card, apply for a new one,because they'd lost the first
one and the second one came backwithout the stamp.
So these dudes all of a suddenhad social security cards.
But what happened is Ioverstayed my welcome for a long
time.
I was lucky enough that afriend of my mom's sort of put
(21:41):
me up in her house andeventually I started working for
a little ad agency and the dudewas he did ads for all the
1-900 numbers back in the daywith all those.
You know that you'd call MissCleo and the hotline and she'd
read your, your, your fortune,and you know they would charge
you 90 bucks for the call Anyway.
(22:02):
So, he, he, I sort of paid me alittle bit under the table at
the time and he, and eventuallywhat happened was I found out
that there was that exceptionalmerit clause.
I don't know what they call itnow, but if you have done
something exceptional, you canget it.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Extraordinary abilities or whatever.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Yeah yeah, and I was very lucky that I'd won a bunch
of Clios and I applied and I gota two-year extension to be able
to stay.
And you know, ducking anddiving and popping in and out of
Mexico was just at the borderwas enough to be able to get
that sorted out During that time.
(22:46):
During those two years, I metmy wife and, as we both say, I
married her for convenience andwe still married 35 years later,
34 years later, but it just itmade it easier, uh to to get a
green card then, which which iswhat I did and uh, that was the
(23:08):
story.
But it was difficult at thebeginning.
I was actually going through.
Really.
It was really difficult becauseI didn't have money for food and
in fact, there's a grocerystore chain in Texas called HEB.
They were the really coolgrocery store and I would go in
there, push the trolley, youknow, load up the cart and I
would eat a sandwich and thenI'd eat an apple and a banana,
(23:30):
even had a couple of beerssometimes and then we'd just
leave the cart and walk out ofthe store and about two years
after that, when I finally gotall my paperwork and everything
sorted out, I sent them a checkfor a couple of hundred bucks
and said look, when I was hungryI took some food without
permission and I want to pay itback, but they never cashed the
(23:52):
check.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Oh okay, Did they at least reach out to?
Speaker 2 (23:54):
you?
No, they didn't.
They didn't reach out, theydidn't say anything.
But that was 35 years ago.
So whatever it is, who knows.
But one of the things that wasvery difficult at that time then
was when my wife and I gotmarried, I had to go back to
South Africa to get my paperwork, to get the x-rays and the TB
(24:18):
and the police clearance.
And I had to get militaryclearance because I'd done my
two years in national serviceand I still owed a few camps.
I think we had to do five campsand I'd just done a few.
So that was quite hard to getthe clearance from the South
African Defense Force.
But I managed to do that.
(24:39):
And then came back to the US andthen, like some of the people
who you've spoken to, I had todo that interview.
Drive down to San Antonio withmy wife.
That put us in separate roomsand the first thing they asked
me was what's yourmother-in-law's address?
And I was like I didn't knowbecause I would just drive there
.
I didn't know what the addresswas.
(25:01):
Most people drive fast there.
Exactly it's like, hey, I'm notgoing in there.
In the end the guy said youknow, I didn't really need to
ask you these questions becauseI knew your whole thing was
legit.
I said how he said we've got aone-way mirror in the reception
and we had to bring our weddingalbum and pictures of our
honeymoon and we had gone toGreece and while we were in the
(25:23):
waiting room we were lookingthrough the pictures and
pointing and I remember that,remember this and he said well,
when we saw that we knew youguys were legit, but we still
had to ask you.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
They're full of secrets, eh, and you weren't
scared that they were going todeport you, oh, petrified.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Yeah, I was deportable and we were
scrambling thinking, okay, well,will she come to South Africa?
She was at university at thetime getting her master's and I
was like I could just interruptthe whole thing.
But I did retain a lawyer atthat time by suggestion and she
(25:57):
was really good.
In those days Al Gore hadn'tinvented the internet yet.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
So it was very difficult to just try and then
phone and get an appointment,and all the paperwork had to
come by mail.
By the way way, we need thisbirth certificate, you know.
Then I have to phone my mom andtell her in south africa, can
you send this?
It's going to be thisunabridged birth certificate and
it has to have this stamp on it.
(26:26):
And then, of course, the mailtook two weeks or three weeks.
In those days that was a bit ofa pain in the hell nothing's
forced when you need somethingurgent.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
There it sounds like while you were going through
this process, you went throughsome hardship.
Why did you never think aboutgoing back home?
Speaker 2 (26:41):
I think because I'd started getting traction in my
career, I could see the light atthe end of the tunnel.
I knew that if I really workedhard I'd be able to at least
follow my dreams to a certainextent.
I'd be able to at least followmy dreams to a certain extent
and I'd given myself a deadline.
I said if I hadn't got anythingpublished because at that time
I was really starting to do thebooks if I hadn't got anything
(27:04):
published or if I was stillsickling, getting the right kind
of job, I would go back.
But what happened was that thatfirst book, after 400
rejections, my first book, gotaccepted.
And the high from that isunbelievable, especially when
you really, really believe thatwhat you're doing is what you're
(27:29):
supposed to do and I meanthat's been my mission for a
long time was to help kids.
Once that happened it was, youknow, the light in the tunnel
got brighter and it wasn't atrain coming towards me.
So it was very alluring, andthe more I sort of was able,
(27:52):
just through climbing up thesteps.
You know, there's that oldAfrican proverb little by little
a little becomes a lot.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
I just I nudged and look.
It wasn't easy and, as I'veheard from a lot of people that
you've interviewed, you know yougo through that.
It's almost tipping point Likegeez, do I stay, do I go?
It's almost tipping point likegeez, do I stay, do I go?
I don't know very many SouthAfricans, expats, who have not
(28:21):
deeply longed for home.
There is a certain magic toSouth Africa, I know.
For me personally, you knowsometimes I'll see a deep blue
sky here and it triggers thispain in your chest of longing.
But what I've also found out isthat a lot of what I long for
(28:43):
is not necessarily South Africa.
I long for my coming of agebecause that was a time that was
just amazing and it justhappened to be in an amazing
place look.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
I mean we could never get south africa out of our
veins, that's for sure.
You know it's a, it's a trulyunique place, and I think anyone
who says they come up here andI forget about south africa is
talking absolute crap, becausethere's nowhere else in the
world like africa I've heard alot of people also say that what
they miss is the people in it.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
It is unique, it's a very special place and, you know
, I think at times like when Iwatched the World Cup, that's
when you have a.
They're your people, it'scamaraderie.
Especially when you watchdocumentaries like Chasing the
Sun or whatever, you almost feelsometimes that you kind of let
(29:37):
the team down by not being there.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Okay, so let me ask you do you ever feel guilt about
leaving, especially likewatching the Rugby World Cup,
like a lot of people go?
Oh, you're not really SouthAfrican anymore.
Do you ever feel any of thatguilt?
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Well, one of the hardest things for me has been
I'm the only person in my familywho moved here.
I have a brother, a sister,nieces, nephews.
My mom, bless her heart, isstill alive at 88 years old in
Joburg.
And I have a lot of guilt ofand it's really interesting
because it's almost like I feelguilty that I've done well, like
(30:11):
I feel guilty that I've donewell.
It sounds really strange but italmost feels like I, you know,
and none of them have wanted tocome here.
They've come on holiday andthat right, my but has only come
a couple of times.
You know, a lot of people say,well, why don't you just bring
your family?
(30:32):
No, there's a whole 10-yearprocess to get there and, quite
honestly, my brother and sisterthey like living there, they
don't want to come here, butthey didn't have the career
aspirations, the type of careerthat I do.
I always say that I'm a SouthAfrican, you know, and an
American by choice.
(30:52):
But I'm very proudly SouthAfrican and I've got into a lot
of cuck because people say, well, if you, you know, you're an
American now, and I'm like, no,I'm not, I'm just a South
African living in America, andthey say, well, you know, you
should sort of you know, becomean American.
(31:12):
Why don't you even sound likeone?
I'm like geez.
You should, sort of you know,become an American.
Why don't you even sound likeone?
I'm like geez.
That's the hottest accent inthe world.
I can't.
I feel uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
I think that's a choice, though I mean, I've
spoken to some people that havebeen here for two weeks and got
an accent.
Yeah, I think that's definitelya choice.
I don't think I'll ever changemy accent.
No, I love my am.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Exactly, I am too, and funnily enough, the accent
has opened a lot of doors for mein terms of you know, you phone
up somewhere and you're askingfor information and they say,
hey, where are you from?
And that's a door opener, andI'm sure you've had that
experience too.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
I've actually had both sides of the spectrum.
So I've actually been to jobinterviews where the guys openly
said, look, we've got to hire alocal.
And I am local, I'm a citizen,and he's like, yeah, but the
accent and stuff like that, youknow we have to hire a local.
And that's the first time I'veever experienced anything like
that.
And then I've also had, like,you go to the shop and they're
like where are you from, loveyour accent, where are you from,
(32:10):
love your accent?
And a lot of people love theaccent here.
And then also you speak on thephone.
Some people just refuse tounderstand what you're saying,
which I don't understand becauseyou're speaking English right.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
I had the experience just a few months ago with my
business partner.
He's a Dinkum Texan.
He talks like this, he's got areal sure kind of accent.
I was like, oh, he's a good oldboy, you know, great guy.
We were at a waffle housesomewhere in the northeast,
(32:46):
somewhere in the Carolinas, andwe're going for breakfast and
the woman says hi, honey, whatcan I get you?
I said can I have water withoutany ice please?
She looks at me.
She says what I said can Iplease have some water without
any ice?
She looks at my businesspartner.
She says I don't know what he'sasking.
She couldn't understand me.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
That's also about stepping out of the box, though
they don't normally hear that.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Yeah, and why would anybody want water without ice?
Are you mad?
Speaker 1 (33:15):
So do you ever go back then?
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Yeah, I try to go back every year if I can.
Covid, obviously, like for alot of us, buggered it all up.
Yeah, I try to go back and whenI do go back I just I wallow in
it and you know, having familythere and I wrote a book
(33:38):
actually two book series calledRandom Cock.
I remember about growing up inSouth Africa, which sort of
maybe aimed at the generationthat came of age in the 70s and
80s, and I often get asked tocome back and do interviews or
radio interviews or what haveyou.
And going back is really fun tobe able to go and share my
memories of the times when youcould hitchhike, which was a
(34:03):
story unto itself.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
It sounds like you've done everything you wanted to
do.
You've written books, you dopresentations, you've got
animation series.
I mean, you've done it allright.
What's next for you?
I mean, are there up-and-comingprojects that you want to share
with us?
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Yeah, I'm working on a book of short stories, but I
also currently work on this.
There's an orphanage justoutside of Johannesburg in the
Mechalinsburg that a friend ofmine started in 1990.
It's been going since then.
There's 300 kids that livethere and I raise money for the
orphanage here and every year Igo back and I spend a couple of
(34:39):
weeks at the orphanage and I'vebeen documenting the kids living
there from when they werelittle and they're all growing
up and I have a project calledwhen Hope Grows and my dream is
to have an exhibition of thosephotographs just to make people
aware that there are these kids,especially now.
(35:03):
The unemployment rate in thatarea is 40 something percent.
They sickle, it's really,really hard and they don't get
government assistance because itall gets pilfered and
disappears.
But this family leftJohannesburg.
They were pretty well off.
They don't get governmentassistance because it all gets
pilfered and disappears.
But these, this family, leftJohannesburg.
They were, they were prettywell off and they decided, right
in the thick of a party, theydecided, no, they wanted to go
(35:24):
and start a school and anorphanage and they did and it's
still going and it's funded byby people like myself and my
friends.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
So I am, and do you have a GoFundMe or anything?
Speaker 2 (35:37):
We have a donation website.
It's called angel-strongorg andit's the most.
If people say to me, if youcould go anywhere right now,
where would you be?
And for me that orphanage isone of the most uplifting places
because, considering what thosekids are going through, you go
(35:59):
in there and this is how I tryand tell Americans about it and
they can't quite grasp it.
You'll go into an orphanage andthose kids come running and
you've got big smiles and bigbrown eyes and lots of hugs and
you know how those little kidsare just great.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Yeah, just share that website one more time if anyone
wants to donate.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Sure, it's angel-strongorg.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Okay, perfect, we'll put it up on the link as well.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
People can get a tax break from that and it's run by
a South African guy in Phoenix.
His name is Mitch Ginsburg agreat guy.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Obviously listen to the podcast, you know.
There's one last questioncoming up.
Is the grass greener on theother side?
Speaker 2 (36:46):
The grass is always greener over the septic tank.
I you know.
Someone else in one of yourpodcasts said it really nicely
and I echo his sentiment.
It was something like there'sgreen patches on both sides and
I think it's the patch that youwant to be on at the time that
(37:10):
works for me.
For me, career wise, itcertainly was.
I don't believe I would havehad 50 books published and been
able to to reach the dreams Ihave over there, but that's not
to say that I wouldn't havecreated different dreams and
maybe done something differently, but different story in terms
of people who want to have abetter life for their family or
(37:32):
what they consider a better lifeor opportunities.
And that wasn't the case for me.
And sometimes, when I gothrough a really bad patch or
feeling sorry for myself orfeeling sad, interestingly
enough the place, the defaultplace, is I want to go to that
Bocciabella orphanage becausethere's a lot of love there.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Trevor, it's been absolutely amazing chatting to
you.
It's been a fun little journey.
Thank you very much, man.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Absolutely.
Thanks so much for chattingwith me.
You made me homesick, dude.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
That's the idea.
Get everyone wanting to go back.
But yes, thanks a lot and goodluck with everything, cheers.
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