Show 260: Elder

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The name down to the clan, the clan to the.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
Hey, y'all, welcome to this week's show. This week we're
going to talk about the sambucas family, or more commonly
known elderberry. As you likely know if you have had
any interaction with overbal medicine, elderberry is one of our
most useful herbs. It has become particularly popular in recent

(01:50):
years with the viruses and everything going around. They're delicious,
they're pretty plants. They're maybe well, I think we're wild
all around where I live, but probably grow wild somewhere
in your area. At least one variety you can probably
find and you can definitely grow them. They actually may
also make an excellent wine or syrup. We'll get into elderberries.

(02:15):
There are nineteen varieties of elder or sambucas and have
documented use in herbal medicine. There are two shrub form
that are native to my region. Many have been introduced.
And yeah, they're great plants. They get a long history.

(02:36):
So how's your week, Ben, that's been pretty rough. Actually
had a ton of work to do and a little fun.
A little fun. I actually made a oh so bay
alic I think that's the way you pronounce it bayalic

(02:58):
sling an old fashioned like David kill Goliath with. And
I've been practicing with that. It's a lot of fun.
You know. I'll probably do a video at somewhat at
some point on how to make one. You can take
a couple links pay achord, maybe six feet long each,
and you can make one in like ten minutes. Go

(03:19):
grab a couple of rocks and start slinging them. And
I mean you can get crazy accurate with it with
it when you start out. I mean, if you could
hit the broadside of a barn, you're doing really well.
So it's just challenging. It's a lot of fun. I
highly recommend that. So that was the high point of
my week. I guess the low point would be when
I finally got to check my mail for the first

(03:41):
time in a couple of months. Yeah, things have been
pretty up in the air with family issues and hurricane
damage and everything. I found a bunch of letters from
the North Carolina Department of Motor Vehicles. They decided that
I don't have insurance on my truck. I do have
insurance on my truck. I paid the bills, have proof
of insurance, the ID and everything. So apparently they sent

(04:05):
me a letter saying I don't have insurance, which is false.
Then they sent me very quickly a follow up letter
saying because I don't have insurance, they're evoking my registration.
And then they sent me a letter saying they were
finding me and if I didn't pay it within so
many days, they would refer it over to justice or

(04:26):
whatever and have me prosecuted. So to first sing, tomorrow morning,
I have to pull my act together and try to
find a rational human being in the Department of Motor
Vehicles who will understand that it's their fault and not
mine and not send the cops after me. So what's new?
That's North Carolina. It's completely unsurprising. Actually, yeah, So anyway,

(04:54):
simple water here a little horse today the boy the
allergies are bad this year. Well, it also has to
do with so much travel, being in different parts of
the state not being able to adjust to it in
a particularly environment. You know, anybody who travels a lot,
you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. It's like you
always have a head cold. Now, it's just because you
keep having to adjust and new environments. Well, anyway, Discorides

(05:20):
wrote of two members of this family, say, well, sambucas
or Sambucus nigra, also confusingly called elder. Sometimes you will
see elder, which, well, we call it elder berry. That's
not the confusing part. Sometimes people will write it as
older A L. D E r and, which, of course

(05:42):
is a completely different tree. So that can be a
little difficult when you're going through old translations. But he said,
he called it act acti, and he describes it, and
it's it's always interesting that the stems, the stems, branches
are actually hollow, and speaking of primitive weapons, some people

(06:05):
have traditionally made blowguns out of them. But the thing is,
the stems and branches of elder are toxic. It can
make you very sick. So when people do that, they
have to put a spacer in there, something so their
lips are not actually touching it, and make sure it's
thoroughly dried and all that. But see he describes that,

(06:27):
and then he talks about the dwarf elder or ground elder.
Now it has some toxicity throughout the entire plant, and
certain shrub formed varieties are called ground elder or dwarf elder,
and they are edible certain ones are not, and apparently
in Greece, the one he was familiar with was somewhat toxic.

(06:51):
But he did use the leaves.

Speaker 3 (06:53):
Let's see of the first one, Yeah, he didn't seem
to use a lot.

Speaker 2 (07:03):
The second one. He used the leaves to perche phlegm
and bial and the stalks boiled as a vegetable. Interesting. Yeah,
in its immature form it can be eaten. You can
boil it to remove toxicity. Yeah, you know, you gonna

(07:24):
want to look in to see which one's growing in
your area. I'm not going to give a blanket endorsement
to eating it. You're gonna want to find what one's
growing in your area. Make sure you're eating one that
has good berries and isn't too toxic in the stems.
But see Hildegard vom Bingen wrote of elder in around
eleven hundred a d. She said, one who has jaundice

(07:45):
should enter a sauna bath and place the leaves of
the tree on hot rocks. He should pour water over them,
and then place a twig in pure wine so that
it takes its flavor. The wine becomes flavored with the
elder well in the bath. He should drink this in moderation.
If you comes out of the bath, he should lie
in bed so that he sweats, so covered up with blankets.

(08:06):
He should do this often and he will be better.
So something about the elder in a sauna esteem and
take and infused him wine somehow helped purify the liver
detox by the liver, which is very interesting. I wish
I had more information on that use at some point,

(08:27):
you know, I do a lot in the German tradition
of herbal medicine. It's in many ways similar to the
Swedish and Norse and all that, but they do tend
to use saunas more in that tradition, also in the
Russian tradition. So maybe I can look into it and
find something there. Girard wrote of common elder, this is

(08:49):
the common elder of England. That's really the one we
eat more of the berries from. He mentions that Galen
found it to be moderately died ingestive, so somewhat good
for the stomach. But Galen was most likely talking about
the plants that discord he's talking about, so let's just
skip ahead to the English uses. He says, leaves and

(09:11):
tender crops of the common elder taken in some broth
or pottage. Open the belly, purging the thick flim and
choleric humors. The middle bark of it is the same nature,
but stronger and purchased the said humors more violently. That
doesn't sound pleasant. Well, let's see if it gets rid
of the thick flim, it's gonna be a good expectorant.

(09:33):
Open the belly, though probably probably a pretty strong laxative.
The seeds contained within the berries dried or good for
such as have dropsy. It's a dima. It's a diuretic,
and such as are too fat and would fain be
leaner if they be taken in the morning. And the
quantity of a dram with wine for a certain space.

(09:54):
We don't use DRAMs anymore. And he doesn't say how
long that certain space is. But see the thing with Gerard,
he was not really a botanist or an herbalist. He
was a gardener. He was the queen's gardener. So very
often he quotes common usage or things he got from
other writers as his own, and so he probably didn't

(10:16):
know how long that common space was either. He says
the leaves of elder boiled in water until they be
very soft, and when they are almost boiled enough, a
little oil sweet almonds added there too, or a little
linseed oil, and that would be just flax oil, not
linseed oil from a hardware store, which is toxic. Then
taken forth and laid upon a red cloth or a

(10:37):
piece of scarlet, and applied to the hemorrhoids or piles
as hot as can be suffered, and so let to
remain upon the part effective until it be somewhat cold,
having the like and readiness applied one after another upon
the diseased part, by the space of an hour or more,
and in the end some bound to the place, and
put the patient put in a warm bed. It hath

(11:00):
not yet failed at the first dressing to cause this pure,
the pure, the said disease. But if the patient be
dressed twice, it needs do good. If the first fail, Wow,
that's hard to decipher. One. Why does that be a
red cloth? That's a little odd. And bound to the

(11:24):
hemorrhoids that's a little odd as well. But I guess
it had a an a stringent shrinking property. We will
assume that's an odd one, he says. The green leaves
pounded with deer suet or bull's tallow are good to
be laid on hot swellings and tumors, and doth assuage

(11:44):
the pains of the galp, so that would be the
same use. And so it has an anti inflammatory and
a stringent property. The ner in green bark doth more
first forcibly purge, so that's going to give you some
serious diarrhea of like operation. Are also the fresh flowers

(12:05):
mixed with some kind of meat or fried with eggs.
So elder flowers fried with eggs would be used as
a laxative. Interesting. Interesting, says the vinegar in which the
dried flowers are steep are wholesome for the stomach being
used with meat, as it stirreth up the appetite and
cureth and attenuateth and make his thin the gross and

(12:28):
raw humors. So again must have some expectant qualities. Boy,
he goes on for a while, he did like a
jelly made from the berries. We take away inflammation of
the mouth, and the almonds are swollen glands of the throat.
That says a pretty good use. I think we'll have

(12:48):
more mention of that in a little bit. When he
talks about the seed being used as a more gentle
laxative infused in wine. M yeah, we'll skip ahead. He
also wrote a dwarf elder, and I'm not going to
really get into that, because that's not really the one

(13:10):
you want to be using unless it's native to your
area and it is specifically stated by your extension agency
botany department at a college to be an edible variety.
There can be a lot of confusion when it comes
to a dwarf elder. It can actually refer to a
couple of different plants. Colpepper wrote about one hundred years

(13:33):
later in language A little bit better to understand. He said,
the young leaves boiled in fat do mightily carry forth
flim and collar, so good expectrum. The lees are inward. Bark,
boiled in water and given in drink worketh much more violently.
And the berries, either green or dry, expel the same humor,

(13:53):
and are often given with success to help the dropsy.
The bark of the root boiled in wine, or the
juice thereof drink worketh the same effects, but more powerfully
than either the leaves or the fruit. The juice of
the root taken doth mightily procure vomitings, so it's not
just a laxity. It would make you throw up too.
It would purge the watery humors of dropsy. Decoction of

(14:17):
the root taken cureth the biting of an adder. I
don't want to test that, and the biting of mad dogs,
I definitely won't don't want to test that. Although elder
does have some antibowel properties, if you get bitten by
a rabbit dog, you need to go to the hospital
as quickly as you possibly can. The berries boiled in
skip the line. It mollifieth the hardness of the mother

(14:41):
and openeth the veins and bringeth down their courses. I
guess it stimulates Minci's. We'll just go with that. The
berries boiled in wine performeth the same effects. And the
hair of the head washed theory and is made black,
so you could use as a hair dye. The juice
of the green leaves applayed applied to hot inflammation of

(15:03):
the eyes assuages of them much so good for eye inflammations.
The juice of the leaves stuffed up, snuffed up, the
nostrils purgeth the tunacles of the brain. I don't know
what a brain tunnacle is. I'm gonna say it helps
with sinus congestion. The juice of the berries boiled with
honey and dropp into the ears help with the pains

(15:25):
of them, so it would reduce inflammation. That's what is
the decoxure of the berries and wine being drank provoketh.
The urine, the distilled water of the flowers is much
used to cleanse the skin from sunburning freckles. More few
and they like and take it away. Headache coming from
a cold cause the head being bathed. Therewith I also
said it was good for bloodshot eyes. So you know,

(15:48):
if you wake up looking and feeling like Dean Martin
on a Sunday morning, you need to get some elder,
he said. The dwarf elder, and again this is going
to be an englishdwarf elder was used for the same
effects but was more powerful now. Miss Grieve also said
that the dwarf elder of England was drastically more therapeutic

(16:10):
than in action than the common elder, and only the
leaves very occasionally the berries are used in medicine. Now
again we need to make sure we got the right dwarfielder.
If we're going to mess with it at all. The
berries that you can actually eat and make wine from
the regular elder plants are the ones. Those are the
plants we use mostly much safer, much safer. She even

(16:35):
mentions there's a bristly sasparilla in America that's called wild
elder or ground elder to entirely different plants. She says,
right here in the United States, the name of dwarf
elder is given to a different plant. It was an aurelia.
So yeah, common names can be very very, very very confusing.

(16:57):
She also mentions the prickly elder, which is an America species,
that's Aurelia spinosa, also called prickly ash Remember I told
you sometimes these are called alder or ash even and
the berries poisonous. So we want to be very careful
if we're not working with just regular elder. And there's
box elder. Totally forgot about box elder. That's an English

(17:19):
and American one, and she mentions that one of those
is it's not a true elder, could be used like
maple trees to make a syrup. So it gets very
confusing when we're not using Latin names. Let's see if
she have any information. Let's see the berries. No, no, nope,

(17:41):
but she does clear up some confusion. We'll move on
to the Irish use of the common elder. The leaves,
tender tops, and inner bark perge biless conditions. A small
amount of the seed, pounded and taken in wine will
disperse all accumulations of water and fluids. The green leaves
are good against all sorts of inflammations, while the flowers

(18:03):
expel wind from the stomach. The berries can be used
in gargles for sore mouths and sore throats. Father Nape
also use both the dwarf the regular elder of Europe
and the dwarf helder. Will skip the dwarf helder and
go with the common. He says, in the good old times,
the elder bush stood nearest to the house, but now

(18:23):
it is in many ways displaced and rooted up. It
ought to stand near every home as part of the household,
as it were, or if cast aside, it should be
brought back to its place of honor. For every part
of the elder tree, leaves, blossoms, berries, bark, and roots
are all efficacious remedies. In springtime vigorous nature strives to
throw off matters that have gathered in the body during winter.

(18:47):
Who does not know that these states the so called
spring diseases, such as eruptions, diarrhea, colic and such like.
Whoever wishes to purify the juices of the blood by
a spring course of medicine and to get rid of
injurious matter in the easiest and most natural way, let
him take six or eight leaves of the elder tree,

(19:09):
cut them up small, and let the tea boil for
about ten minutes. Then take daily the whole course one
cup of this tea, fasting an hour before breakfast. This
most simple blood purifying tea cleanses the machine of the
human body in excellent manner, and with poor people. It
takes the place of the pills and such like, which

(19:30):
nowadays are finding found in fine medicine chests, and which
have very often strange effects. This course may also be
undertaken at any other time of the year. Even the
withered leaves make a good purifying tea. So it's going
to clean you out. Who has not eaten cakes made
of elder flowers, Yes, that's a very good edible use
of the flowers. He says, these subian or so called

(19:54):
little cakes. Many people bake them just at the time
where the tree is shining in its white spring ornament,
and they say these little flour cakes are protection against fever.
I know of a place which is often visited with
the agu or fevers, and there in the spring you
will see these elderflower or fever cakes on every table.
I have never examined this minutely and critically, but let

(20:17):
those people remain in their faith, for such is good
and wholesome. He says. Elder flowers also purify. It would
be good in every home dispensed story to have a
box of dried elderflowers. Winter is long, and cases can
a cure occur in such a dissolving and pseudorific little
remedy may prove excellent service and can never be and

(20:40):
harm can never be done by it. He recommends us
for drops here a dim He goes on. He really
likes him. The berries in the autumn, he says, are
often boiled and eaten as a part of the porridge
or marmalade. A marmalade of elderberry. It's like that jam
we were talking about. Be very good, he said, it
was highly esteemed by our forefilers as a blood purifying remedy.

(21:04):
My departed mother undertook such an elderflower course every year
for a fortnight to three weeks. This was the main
reason why our ancestors forty or fifty years ago had
at least two elder trees planted before their houses. As
the higher class nowadays travel and often a distanced lands
to make use of expensive grape cures, so our parents
and grandparents used to go to the elder tree, which

(21:26):
close at hand, and serve them so cheaply and much
better than the expensive grapes. Some years ago I was
in the Austrian Alps and saw there, to my great
joy how the elder tree was still honored. Of that
set a peasant to me, we do not let a
single berry go to waste. How simple, how sensible. Even
the birds, before they commence their altnaile travels, seek out

(21:46):
everywhere the elder trees to purify their blood and strengthen
their natures for long journeys. What a pity that man,
on account of art and affection, no longer feels or
takes notice of the natural instincts of the sound mind.
If the berries are boiled down with sugar or better still,
with honey. They will prove especially good in wintertime for

(22:07):
people who have but little exercise and are condemned to
a sedentary mode of life. A spoonful of the above preserves,
stirred in a glass of water, makes the most splendid
cooling and refreshing drink, operates on the secretions of the urine,
and has good effect on the kidney. Many country people
dry the berries, but whether the berries are dried and
boiled as porridge or stewed and eaten, they form an

(22:29):
excellent remedy against violent diarrhea. But there's the astringency, so
that's interesting there. Then he gets into the dwarf. We'll
skip that, brother Aloysius. It was his protege, he said.
He also used both plants. We're just gonna stick with
common Elder elderflowers are undoubtedly the most well known diaphoretic

(22:51):
in use sittings lowers of fear, and can be successfully
employed at the onset of all kinds of chills. The
inner rine of one year old shoots, mixed with half
a quality quantity of licorice is an excellent remedy for dropsy.
The lees are drunk as tea and are a depurative.
The infusion could well okay, He gets into his tea
making instructions that we can all make tea, and then

(23:14):
a well known syrup can be made from the berries
picked in almond autumn. The berries picked in autumn. An
infusion of elder flowers boiled in milk with a slice
of white bread soaked in it, applied between linen cloths
on burning eyes soon draws out all burning sore eyes
are also much healed by this remedy. And he recommended

(23:37):
the berries as a laxative. That was just the berries
eaten plain elder leaves boiled in milk or beneficial for
the scurf for excellent. Essentially are depurative and laxative, and yeah,
let's see now. In Poland, Sophie Hodderook's nab tells us
that they made pillows from the flowers and they were

(23:58):
heated and used as treatment for earache, stomach ache, and
pains of rheumatism. Syrups and jams and wine made from
the berries all have health giving properties. Young shoots were
used as a salve for rheumatism. The new leaves and shoots,
dried and ground into a powder and added to chicken
soup used for obstructions of the boughs, or a cream

(24:21):
based soup. She says. The Slavs appreciate the elderberry bush
for its healing and magical properties. If the white blossoming
flowers were cut on the night of June at Saint
John's Eve June twenty three, they were felt to have
miraculous powers and healed all diseases. A little folklore there
igor Vilovich? What was his name? Vilovich? Nab no? I

(24:43):
can be right, Oh, I can't remember. I'll get you
the name next time, he writes in a Russian era herbal.
Early Russians believed that the elder was home to a
tree spirit, usually in the form of an old woman.
In medieval times, elder was used to cure toothache, to
interrupt depilectic fifths, to remove poisons from metal vessels, and

(25:03):
guarantee that the person who cultivate it would die in
his or her own home. An official Russian herbal medicine,
an extract of herb elder flowers is used to treat
chronic inflammations of the respiratory tract including bronchitis, pneumonia, asthma,
and other lung problems. It's also used to treat colds
by raising the body temperature and promoting perspiration. A warm

(25:27):
extract of elderflowers is recommended as a gargle for people
with chronic tonsillitis. In folk medicine, and infusion of elderflowers
has traditionally been used to treat rheumatism, gout, and kidney problems,
as well as sinusitis and hay fever symptoms. In folk dermatology,
elderflower infusions or used as an antiseptic as a wash

(25:47):
for skin problems accusing including exzema, psoriasis, sevaria, dermatias, and
hair loss. In these cases, an extract from the flowers
is rubbed on in the affected area. A flower extract
also helps produce inflammation of muscles and joints. Combination of
elderflour and canamal used to inequal proportions, boiled and used

(26:08):
as a compress. Preparations for use from the young leaves
are effective remedy for diarrhea. I mean I'm sorry skipped
to the next paragraph. Preparations made from young leaves are
effective remedy for arthritis, rheumatic complaints, are terioscloses, and diabetes.
Leaves are also used to make an exterial ointment external

(26:30):
ointment my word, I'm getting tongue tied, and are good
for treating eye and ear diseases, toothaches, and bone pains.
Leaves applied directly to the skin are also used for burns,
scared skin, irritations, and open wounds. Simple water here, I
mean I probably skip a little bit more. I mean,
we've really covered a lot of uses. Just want to

(26:52):
mention the Cherokee made it a coction of the roots
of the bark. For the summer complaints, it's diarrhea again tea.
The scrape bark is good for the stomach. Elderberry tea
also drunk from rheumatism. Resources of southern feels in forests
gets into all the uses we've mentioned. Used for dropsy

(27:14):
or edema, Washed for wounds, sore joints, good, you know,
expectant for the lungs. King's Medical Dispensary eighteen ninety eight
under actions, medicinal uses and dosages. Stimulant increasing secretions in
warm infusion elder flowers or diaphoratic i means helps break

(27:35):
a fever, raises the bio temperature and breaks a fever,
and generally stimulant in cold infusions, they're diuretic. Alternative cooling
may be used in all diseases requiring such action actions.
Yeah to go onto list uses we pretty much already covered. Yeah,

(27:57):
externally good for skin issue use, eruptions, and irritations. Specific
indication uses in skin affections where the tissues are full,
flabby and a deem modis I mean you're retaining a
lot of fluid. Lets see, Yeah, we covered all that. Okay,

(28:18):
Modern years plants for a future says medicial use of
elder The plant has medicinal qualities. No further details, but
these are given to the medicinal property the closely related
acid bulus and the samucus. I'm not sure which one
that is, but always says. Leaves are antiphlogistic, colagog, colagog, diaphortic, diuretic, expectorant,

(28:40):
and laxative. The fruit is sometimes used, but is less
active than the leaves. The arab is commonly used in
the treatment of liver and kidney complaints. When bruised and
lamb boiled and scalds, they have a healing effect. It
can be made into a poultice for treating swellings and contusions.
You know that's good. It's anything I have not covered, Rodell,

(29:02):
It says. The elder was widely used by American Indians,
who applied the bark as an anecdotal poultice to painful
swellings and inflammation. Elder berries were listed in the official
Pharmacopeia during the nineteenth century and the flowers for nearly
a century long period spanning the nineteenth and twentieth centuries,

(29:24):
even where flowers were listed as mildly stimulant, carminative, and diaphoretic.
And speaking of which, the PDRs Physician's Desk Reference for
Verbal Medicine says flowers and berries of Sambucus niagra and
Sambucas canadensis are used to shorten the duration severity of
colds and flus. Yes, very good anti viral, to treat
eczema and other skin disorders, and to reduce pain and inflammation. Essentially,

(29:48):
it helps prevent the virus from replicating. So very very useful.
Indications and uses approved by commission E for cough, bronchitis, fevers,
and cold. The drug is used for colds and coughs.
It is a sweat producing remedy for treatment of fevers colds.
In folk medicine, elderflowers are used internally as a pseudorific
tea that means helps you sleep and for colds and

(30:11):
other fevers conditions. Elders also used as infusion of gargoyle
mouthwash for respiratory disorders such as cofts, heads, colds, laryngitis,
flu and shortness of breath. Elder is used occasionally by
nursing mothers to increase lactation Externally. Head pillows are used
for swellings and inflammations. Under precautions and adverse reactions says

(30:32):
only fully ripe berries are used added as red berries
can be mildly toxic. Leaves, shoots and bark and raw
red berries contain cyanogenic glycosides, so basically cyanide and sam
sam sambo nagrine there we go that can cause dizziness, headaches, convulsions,
gas room, intestinal distress, nausea, vombiting, diarrhea, and tachycardia. So

(30:57):
we do want to be careful with elder bar collectins
may stimulate hyperplasia the small intestine that suggests tambuca may
be a source of potential harm to diabetic persons, and
caution should be advised. So ripe berries, make sure you
got the right variety, and it's a great plant to
find in the wild. Cultivate grow Elder wine is superior

(31:22):
to most country wines. It's says just as good as
grape wine. I love the jelly. I love a compo
to can serve anything made from those berries. I have
not used the leaves and bark a lot interbal medicine.
I really go for the berries and the flowers as
a wild edible. See y'all have a go one say
a prayer for me that I can get things straight

(31:42):
out with the DMV and I'll talk to you next week.

Speaker 4 (31:48):
The information this podcast is non intended to diagnose or
treat any disease or condition. Nothing I say or write
has been evaluated or approved by the FDA.

Speaker 2 (31:58):
I'm not a doctor.

Speaker 4 (31:59):
The government does not recognize the practice of verbal medicine,
and there is no governing body regulating herbless. Therefore, I'm
really just a guy who stays herbs. I'm not offering
any advice. I won't even claim that anything I write
or say is accurate or true. I can tell you
what earths have been traditionally used for. I can tell
you my own experience, and if I believe in ERB
has helped me, I cannot, nor would I tell you

(32:21):
to do. To say, if you use an herb anyone
recommends you are treating yourself, you take full responsibility for
your health. Humans are individuals, and no two are identical.
What works for me may not work for you. You
may have an allergy of sensitivity and underlying condition that
no one else even shares and you don't even know about.
Be careful with your health by continuing to listen to

(32:43):
my podcast or read my blog you read to be
responsible for yourself, to your own research, make your own choices,
and not to

Speaker 2 (32:50):
Blame me for anything ever

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Show 260: Elder

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