Show 268: Christmas Special 2025

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The name.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Down to the clan, the.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
Clan to the.

Speaker 3 (01:30):
Hey, y'all, welcome this week's show. First of all, I
want to wish you a very merry Christmas. As you know,
I love Christmas, my favorite time of the year. So
we have a tradition here on the Southern Appalachian Herbs
Podcast that I started in our very first year and

(01:53):
it's I tell the story of Christmas with the Hicks
family on Beech Creek, North Carolina. Back then, well it's
quite a bit different now. It was ten miles down
a gravel road to get to Ray Hicks' old cabin
that was built by his grandfather. That was like stepping

(02:14):
back in time, well over one hundred years. And if
you ever wonder who this hillbilly is you listen to
on this podcast every week, how did he learn about herbs?

Speaker 2 (02:25):
This is the story.

Speaker 3 (02:26):
I started my herbal apprenticeship with the Hicks family at
about the age of fifteen, and they taught me to
use herbs as they had used them for hundreds of years.
They taught me to wild harvest or wildcraft herbs, which
is how they made their living.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
You know.

Speaker 3 (02:45):
After that, I went to various herbal schools, and continued
my herbal education and continue to do so to this day.
You know, one course I took was more more than
two hundred and seventy hours of class work just on
its own, you know. But I always go back to
my roots as an herbalist this I think, what's growing
around you, what's in your backyard. I think it's very

(03:07):
important to learn to identify plants grow which you can't
find in the wild herb shops and ordering tinctures and
capsules and such online is just fine, and a lot
of people make their living that way, and I think
they're doing wonderful work. But I think the really the
next step, especially if you're concerned with what we call

(03:28):
kitchen medicine, taking care of you and your family's needs
in your house, and really the next step of as
far as self sufficiency and resiliency, is learning to wild
harvests or grow herbs and process them in your own kitchen.
Dry your herbs, make your tinctures, make your decoctions, make

(03:50):
your infused oils. And my books tell you how to
do all of that. And you know, that's what I
began learning from the Hicks family, Ray and Rosie and
Ted and Marble and all that bunch. There were storytellers
and musicians and tradish woodsman, traditional mountain people and you know,

(04:14):
part Scottish and part Cherokee and just real down down
to earth, salt of the earth, strongly religious, good, solid,
wonderful people, wonderful people. And so every year I like
to share this story with you, and it's a it's

(04:34):
a very meaningful story for me. I would I couldn't.
I can't tell it again each year, and I'll tell
you the God's honest truth. First time I recorded this,
I broke down crying about ten times. I mean I
had to go through and edit that recording to make
it flow because they were just like you know, minutes

(04:58):
and minutes of silent in between gaps.

Speaker 2 (05:01):
Came out pretty well. Now.

Speaker 3 (05:03):
I will apologize that in the first year of the show,
the audio quality was not as good as it is today.
I have edited the audio quality enhanced it as best
I can, but you may need to pop in your
earbuds or a pair of speakers. I hope you will
listen to this show with your kids, your grandkids, your family.

(05:27):
I hope it's very important to remember that not very
long ago, our nation, our culture. Our world was very
different and families were more intact. Traditions were passed down

(05:48):
that are being lost today. And it can be as
simple as learning to play the guitar or a banjo,
tell the old stories, learn to cook, or herbal medicine.
If things progress the way they have been, we're not
going to have this much longer. I watched a watch

(06:09):
a YouTube video yesterday and the guy, I don't know
how I stumbled across it. I guess it was a
product I had looked up on, you know, on online
or something. So YouTube proposed that. I watched his unboxing
video of something he had ordered from Amazon, and it
was several you know, useful items, knives and maybe a

(06:32):
first aid kit and such as that. And he picks
up a really great book and I mean beautiful, full
color book on gardening and survival skills, and he takes
and throws it down and says, nobody reads anymore. Why
would you read when you can watch a YouTube video.

(06:54):
I went livid. I mean literally, you know it's it's
really that's wilful ignorance. You know, one thing, you have
to assume the person on YouTube is actually telling you
the truth that they actually know what they're talking about,
that they actually have real life experience. But also you

(07:15):
know what happens when you're in a hurricane, what happens
when you're in an ice storm, what happens when you
have no Internet or sell?

Speaker 2 (07:22):
That you know, just.

Speaker 3 (07:26):
A little more than a year ago, we were a
couple of months without power or SELL. Had it not
been for Elon Musk, nobody would have communications whatsoever. It's
at for Ham Radio. People are so shortsighted and willfully
stupid that it makes me very angry when I hear

(07:46):
something like that. When I think about being up there
with the Hicks family, or with my grandparents or my
great grandparents on the farm, they had never heard of
the internet.

Speaker 2 (07:58):
I mean, think about that, it.

Speaker 3 (07:59):
Wasn't any existence. Uh, you know, they taught me to
cook and take care of chickens and can and cure
meat and garden. And then with the Hicks family all
about the herbal medicine and their various traditions and stories
and music that must passed down from one generation to

(08:19):
the next for thousands of years, thousands of years, and
in the blank of an eya can be gone. If
you don't have that knowledge and use it and hone
your skills. If you think you're just going to turn
on the internet and pull up a YouTube video and
learn everything you need in two minutes or thirty seconds

(08:40):
whatever some you know, stupid short tick type video, and
you're going to know how to survive or know how
to care for yourself your family, you're delusional. Any day now,
a solar flare could just wipe out the grid and
you think your you know AI companion's going to walk
you through everything at that point, I sincerely hope I

(09:02):
never encounter someone like that in real life, because it's
not gonna end well, not gonna end well at all.
You don't take what has been valued by generations and
throw it in the trash. But anyway, without further ado,
I guess I should mention one thing. I'm really gonna

(09:25):
probably announce this more in the new year, but I
did finally finish my book on how to play the Mandolin,
thirty years of experience into one book that I guess
that guy would just take and throw in the trash
because he thinks he can turn on a YouTube video
and learn to play, learn to absolutely master an instrument
that took me thirty years to learn. Okay, I don't

(09:48):
think many people are going to be paying to hear
him play music. I've played several concerts, I've played with
several very famous musicians.

Speaker 2 (09:58):
Anyway, the book.

Speaker 3 (09:59):
Is now live on Amazon. It's called Mandolin Mysteries Solved.

Speaker 2 (10:04):
It's a really.

Speaker 3 (10:05):
Unique mandolin book. It's like nothing else on the market.
It's not how to play, you know, bluegrass. It's not
how to play a Bill Monroe solo or a Dave
Grismond solo. It's a lot of practical experience, music theory,
useful chords. I literally call it how to play any
genre of music in any key, single note, soloing or chord, melody, rhythm,

(10:32):
sight read music, improvise all in one book. And I
mean it's a good one hundred and thirty some page book,
which is pretty unknown, unheard of for a musical instruction book.
You know, if your New Year's resolution is to learn
to play the mandolin, check it out. It's on Amazon,
Mandolin Mystery Solved by Judson Carroll. If it may be

(10:56):
a little too late to get it to somebody as
a Christmas gift, I understand that.

Speaker 2 (11:00):
But you know, if.

Speaker 3 (11:02):
You know a mandolin player in your family. You could
go ahead and order it and get it to them
just after Christmas. You know, maybe Amazon Prime can get
it to them fast enough, but I'm not going.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
To guarantee that.

Speaker 3 (11:16):
So without further ado, let me just once again reiterate
I wish everyone the best, and I'm thankful for every
one of you who listened to my podcast, who watched
my videos, who read my books. I'm very grateful. Your
gift to me every day is allowing me to make

(11:39):
a living doing what I began as an apprentice with
the Hicks Family at the age of about fifteen, and
that's a dream come true.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
Really. All right, Merry Christmas, y'all.

Speaker 4 (11:55):
Tell y'all, let's get on to what I said, well
special for today's show. At being Christmas, I have told
you before about the Hicks family of Beach Creek. Creek
was a community on the backside of Beach Beach Mountain
is a very popular resort area in the mountains of

(12:19):
North Carolina, the Blue Rich Mountains Avery County.

Speaker 2 (12:23):
Ski Slopes.

Speaker 4 (12:24):
At one point, we actually had a theme park up
there called the Land of Oz, where the entire Wizard
of Oz was recreated on top of this mountain and
the fellow who opened it, Robbins. He hired many of
the actors who were still alive from the Wizard of
Oz movie. So, I you know, as a kid, I

(12:44):
remember Munchkins. I mean some of the actual Munchkins. They
have characters dressed up, like the Cowardly Lion and the
Scarecrow and Dorothy. And you'd walk in a house and
obviously everything starts shaking, the lights of flashing, and you
walked through a door in the house will be upside
now because you know, been through the tornado and the
witch's legs were curled up under the house, and it's

(13:06):
just the greatest.

Speaker 2 (13:08):
Place for a kid.

Speaker 4 (13:10):
Anyway, it went bankrupt, stayed empty for years. There have
been various plans of trying to.

Speaker 2 (13:16):
Bring it back. It just never really worked.

Speaker 4 (13:19):
Now, huge resort developments have come in there, huge housing developments,
and eventually it even went past the high end, you know,
big homes where all the Yankees live on one side
of the mountain. And unfortunately, the area we once knew
as Beach Creek and Roaming or the backside of the
mountain are being developed and property textures are going up

(13:43):
and the world I'm going to describe to you really
isn't anymore.

Speaker 2 (13:48):
And that's the sad part. That's where I learned.

Speaker 4 (13:52):
Verbal mess When I was about fifteen, I began say
as an apprentice herbalist and storyteller and Appalachian folk musician
with the Hicks family of Beach Mountain. And it's really
special to me this time of year because every Christmas
Eve was a bit up there. So a few years

(14:13):
ago I wrote a little story that was for a
remembrance of Christmas with the Hicks family. If you'll bear
with me a little bit, it's probably gonna be a
little hard for me to read at some point.

Speaker 2 (14:25):
You know, it seems.

Speaker 4 (14:26):
The older I get, the more emotional I get around
the holidays.

Speaker 2 (14:30):
You know how much of that world has gone.

Speaker 4 (14:32):
So many of the people I knew had passed, and
these are people who are really family.

Speaker 2 (14:38):
And anyway, I put this story.

Speaker 4 (14:39):
Out and on the Grown Network and a few other places,
and people just loved it. And this being the family
from whom I learned herbs, I thought would be very
appropriate to read on this show. You know, it's gonna
be a little hard for me at places because these
people have all passed and really I mean, these are
some of the most precious memories I have. Let me

(15:03):
tell you, Ray was a character, Ray Hicks. I call
this story Christmas Eve with Big Ray, Big Ray. Oh man,
If only y'all could see the picture I'm looking at
him right now. For several years, every Christmas Eve, a
mother and I would take make the long winding drive
up the.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
Big race House. Big Ray was Ray Hicks.

Speaker 4 (15:26):
The famous storyteller, recipient of the National Heritage Award, subject
of several books and a Smithsonian exhibit. He was the
teller of the Jacktales. He was a man out of time.
He was a man who still lived one hundred years
in the past minimum. But to us, Ray and his

(15:46):
family were like our family, and going up to race
was as much of our Christmas tradition as presents were
under the free Marvell Hicks. His name was Oraville, but
Bill pronounced it. He's a famous storyteller in his own right.
He introduced us to Ray and his wife Rosa pronounced Rosie,
and their son Ted. Arvell was a close family friend,

(16:11):
and over the years we accompanied him to merle Fest,
to the National Storytelling Convention Jonesborough.

Speaker 2 (16:17):
Met so many famous folks for him.

Speaker 4 (16:19):
And it was through Arville I got Doc Watson, mac Wiseman,
Emil Lou Harris, the great guy Clark who passed away,
became a friend and I miss him dearly as well.
Frank Prophet Frank Prophet Junior, his father made famous hanging
down your head Tom Dooley. I mean, this was, you know,

(16:41):
a real Mountain tradition, and people came from all over
the world to meet Ray and Doc. I mean members
of the Grateful Dead. I mean, you know, Dave Grismane
would show up frequently. It was a really unique time
and place.

Speaker 2 (16:57):
But I mean.

Speaker 4 (17:00):
All the famous folks aside Ray and Rosie were and
Ted and Arvill were just humble and honest and genuine,
and they were family to us. The first time we
met Ray and Rosy was a Cove Creek school. Ray
had a sister who shared my mother's name. She had

(17:20):
died early, so when Ray met my mother, he just
repeated her name over and over and from then on,
I mean, we really were like a family. We drive
up from Fosco Community near Boom, usually in the snow
down what was then about ten miles of unpaved road.
We'd park on the hill above Race and holler out hello.

(17:40):
And you know, if y'all aren't from the mountains, you
may not understand. But if you ever pull up to
an old cabin in the middle of the nowhere, yell
out hello before you start walking over that door, or
somebody may shoot you. That's just, you know, the way
things are. The first to greet us was always the dog.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
Ed had a little beagle, and.

Speaker 4 (18:00):
Ray had a little black dog that had a shock
of white hair right on the center of its head
like a mohawk. Was actually longer than the rest of
its spurs, so it looked like a little white mohawk.
And Ted would yell away, say you ons, come on in.

Speaker 2 (18:14):
Well.

Speaker 4 (18:15):
Ray I was always sitting in a chair in front
of the wood stove, cooking a stick into the fire.
We'd say Merry Christmas, and regular goh is it Chris
go snuck up on me this year? That's the way Race,
But okay. Ray had an accent that went back to
his Scottish ancestors.

Speaker 2 (18:37):
Very unique that little area.

Speaker 4 (18:40):
And like I said, one hundred years at a time.
And Ray and Rosy and Ted and all the kids
they had raised. They lived in a cabin that was
built by Ray's father. Okay, the only electricity was one light,
one light on the ceiling.

Speaker 2 (18:55):
That was all electricity.

Speaker 4 (18:57):
Ed had a little radio he kept upstairs to listen
to the grand old library. But other than that, this
house was in time. It was an outhouse.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
Out back.

Speaker 4 (19:06):
There was second wood stove, a cookstove, and a kitchen
that Rosy. They didn't have a TV, they have anything.
They didn't get the newspaper. They hadn't They had no
idea what day it was. I mean their way of
life was title u. Life was marked by plowing, planning,

(19:29):
growing and harvesting, hunting, winter and spring, summer and fall.

Speaker 2 (19:32):
I mean it was as old as the.

Speaker 5 (19:33):
Mountain well ted and rayed welcome sin, you know, and
Rosie come rushing out of the kitchen and hug my
mother and greet us, and we'd all just kind of
visit for a while and talk.

Speaker 4 (19:45):
And then my mother and Rosie disappeared to the kitchen
and they taught women things. We both learned volumes of
herbal remedies from Rosie. Her hair was long, it went
well past her waste and was at black, I mean
well into old age, because she was part Cherokee. Her
aunt was actually the old witch woman, that's what we

(20:08):
called her. Two local folks went to for cures and
to have their fortunes tall.

Speaker 2 (20:12):
So she was a wealth of.

Speaker 4 (20:15):
Appalachian herbal information.

Speaker 2 (20:17):
In folklore, and so it was right. So it was ted.

Speaker 4 (20:21):
They made their living really gathering herbs. They gather herbs
in the woods and sell them to the Wilcox store
that was based out of Asheville and had Officera moon
and until Ray became a famous storyteller, that was basically
their only income. And so Ed would show me the herbs.
She's taught me to identify gencing, golden seal and all

(20:43):
that stuff, and Ray would tell me all kinds of cures.
Ray was the character at all. I mean, I mean
you had to take everything he said with a little
brain of salt. But Rosie was a true herbal and
she spent years teaching, teaching me or medicine. And that's

(21:04):
foundation of why I'm sitting here today. Well, Rosie didn't
really approve of draking as a rule, okay, but it
was Christmas. You didn't mind on Christmas. So we'd bring
along some eggnog and brandy, and soon Rosie and my
mother would come out of the kitschen with glasses labrandied eggnog,
and the celebration would just be full swing. I'd bring

(21:25):
either my guitar or I'd play a six string banjo
that was tuned like a guitar that the kid Marvell
was usually there and he joined me on guitar banjo.
Ray would play its harmonica. We would play all of
our favorite tunes, all the songs by the car Family
and Jimmy Rogers, Bob Wills, Roy Acuff, Hank Williams, and

(21:45):
Bill Munroe. You have to sing Monroe if you're from
the mountains. Ray's favorite song was an old mournful roy
a Cuff song called Precious Jewel, and the folks song
kind of a blues song called John Henry. Yes, everybody's
heard John Henry. I knew about four or five versions
of John Henry, so I just play him through as

(22:05):
Ray sang and played the harmonica. Because the man had
no rhythm whatsoever. He would sing in his own tuneless,
rhythmless style. And let me tell you if you could
accompany accompany Ray playing with Willie Nelson's piece of cake.
Rosie would sing the Old Mountain folk ballads of the
old shape notes style, all those old beautiful songs about

(22:29):
murders and dying lovers.

Speaker 2 (22:31):
And all that.

Speaker 4 (22:33):
We would we'd sing a few hymns too, and that
was always risky. Ray had a unique understanding of the Bible,
unique understanding of Christian.

Speaker 2 (22:42):
Doctor and theology.

Speaker 4 (22:43):
To put it mildly, as Arble put it, he said,
a preacher came up here once and he and Ray
got into it over the Bible. Ray ran that preacher off,
and you never seen a preacher cost so much. Hours
hours would pass, and time would just stand still. We've
changed gifts, which always included Ray's favorite old fashioned candy

(23:04):
and a pouch in the back. Ray rolled his own cigarettes,
and they were the worst looking cigarettes you've ever seen.

Speaker 2 (23:10):
He'd rolled one up and started telling a story like
Wicked John and the Devil.

Speaker 4 (23:14):
It's one of his favorites, and he's talking burning bits
of tobacco would just fall all over the place. It
with the sloppiest looking things. Marble would usually tell a story,
punctuating it with his deep chuckle and then my term
come around. I do my best, you know. It was
kind of awkward with it. It was something I was learning,
but the raid always cheer me on afterwards, encouraged me

(23:36):
to take out the tradition and say, go that was
pretty good. You could always pass as a Hicks, told
as you are. You know, there are two kinds of Hicks.
There's the gray neck kicks and the bullneck kick Marvell,
he's a bullneck gall. I stand about six', four and
even in his late, seventies if not, Eighty ray was

(24:00):
a good three or four inches more than. Me so
when we talked about crane necks and bull necks a,
minute a very tall. Man ray And rosie would invite
us to stay the night and we all get a
little choked.

Speaker 2 (24:12):
Up when it was time for his.

Speaker 4 (24:13):
Leave ted had walked us up the, car and it
was always so cold up on The beach mountain On Christmas.
Eve the wind blows the snow, around but the sky
WAS i don't even remember a time that there was
a cloud in the sky On Christmas. Eve it was
just clear as could, be and the moon would reflect
on the snow and it was so. BRIGHT i, mean
it was never. Dark you didn't need a flashlight or.

(24:33):
Anything you could see the city lights In. Tennessee and
that's how clear the sky was the silence and. Cold
it was just such a contrast to the warp the
celebrations side of the. House i've never experienced anything else like.

Speaker 2 (24:47):
IT i DOUBT i.

Speaker 4 (24:49):
Will ray passed away a few years, ago in quite
a while, Now, actually we went to the funeral And
boon And ten and his older Brother leonard met us
at the funeral. HOME i knew ewans would. Come ted
said humans were always just like. Family lennard told us
my mother went to talk With rosie AND i sat
With ted And leonard. REMINISCING i always had a knack for,

(25:11):
memicry you, know often And i've imitated people's voices without
even being aware of. IT i can sit there talking
to someone and somehow just adopt their, accent which y'all
may find surprising as thick as My southern. Accent, Anyway
ted Said daddy would appreciate humans, coming and so without.

Speaker 2 (25:31):
Even, thinking you, KNOW i, REPLIED i know. Exactly say,
said oh It's.

Speaker 4 (25:36):
Bicky bicky and her boy Go.

Speaker 2 (25:42):
Ted And. Leonard they both.

Speaker 4 (25:43):
Laughed MARK i sounded just, like, well we all got
a little choked up about men and stepped. OUTSIDE i,
Remember ted, SAID i never did like crowds of. PEOPLE
i Guess i'm just used to being up on the.
Mountain someone's rooster got. Moose it was strutting around the
parking lot of the funeral hunt just a LITTLE vandam,
Rooster and that's a pretty odd sight in the center

(26:06):
of bustling. Bood boon's become a very modern town in
the past decade or, two but At Ray hicks funeral
it didn't seem out of place at. All The New
York times And National Public radio ran habituaries On. Ray,
somehow though that, colorful, struting crawling rooster seemed a more appropriate.
Tribute we just kind of talked about the roasters and loosened.

(26:27):
Up so This Christmas, EVE i remember those nights At.
RAYS i reckon always. Will if y'all have children or,
grandchildren here's a gift idea For. Christmas buy them a
recording Of ray Or Arble hicks telling me, stories or
buy a copy Of The jacktails collected By Richard, chase
and learn to tell the. Stories storytelling is such a wonderful,

(26:49):
tradition and, WELL i can guarantee there never be Another Ray,
Horrible Poor rosy Or ted the jacktail tradition can live
on through generations. Together see, Y'ALL i want to wish
You Merry. CHRISTMAS i would you get to spended with
people you? Love the one Thing christmas is not. About it's.
Stuff christmas is about family and memories and a baby

(27:12):
born over two thousand years and makes this all. Family Merry, christmas,
y'all

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Show 268: Christmas Special 2025

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