April 15, 2025 • 28 mins
Listen to Part 1 here!
In Part 2, Beverly and Robert explore deeper topics. Robert opens up about challenges he faced, like ageism and financial instability in music, and how he developed unshakable confidence in his craft and pricing. He shares powerful insights on negotiation, brand alignment, and the emotional intelligence it takes to be both a world-class conductor and entrepreneur.
Three Key Topics Discussed:
- Overcoming Ageism & Financial Fear: Robert talks about leading 80-person orchestras at age 20, and the resilience it took to survive in a feast-or-famine freelance industry.
- Confidence Through Clarity: Why getting clear on your value and saying “this is what I charge” is the secret to owning your brand, and how maturity brings freedom in entrepreneurship.
- Influence & Reciprocity in Marketing: Robert breaks down the psychology of persuasion, why mirroring works, and how creating magical experiences leads to business growth.
Follow Robert:
Robert Emery | Instagram
Robert Emery | Facebook
Robert Emery | YouTube
Robert Emery | Website
P.S. Take the first step (will only take you 3 minutes) to awaken your brand magic with our personalized Brand Clarity Quiz
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Beverly (00:00):
Hello.
(00:00):
Before we dive into part two ofthis episode, I gotta ask, did
you catch part one?
If not, hit pause real quick.
You'll wanna start from thebeginning to get the full
effect.
The link to part one is rightdown in the description below.
Go ahead, catch up, and we'll beright here waiting for you.
Ready to dive into part two whenyou're all set.
It's worth it, I promise.
What has been the biggestchallenge of your career and how
(00:21):
have you overcome it?
Robert (00:23):
Had two, two or three real big sort of themes of
challenging, one I'm naturallyovercoming as I get older and
ageism was a massive issue forme in terms of I was too young.
Imagine a 20-year-old signing upconducting an orchestra of 80 to
90 players who may be, are age40 to 80.
And they sit there going whatdoes this 20-year-old know?
(00:45):
He was still in diapers when Iwas, graduating from the music
college.
So I had a lot of a lot ofissues when I was younger with
people not just naturallythinking he's not gonna be very
good because he's young.
That's naturally resolvingitself.
Now that I'm getting morewrinkly.
Second issue is finding thework.
(01:08):
I'm a freelance musician.
Maybe I have a hundred gigs in ayear.
Maybe I have 10 gigs in a year.
Maybe I have none.
Maybe the phone stops ringing.
That's a really horriblesituation to be in When you
start January the first and youlook at your diary and you go,
yeah, I got probably like fourgigs in this year so far which
(01:30):
is enough to pay maybe two weeksworth of my mortgage.
And you go, whoa that could bescary.
And the only way to deal withthat is just to have the
confidence that you're gonna befine.
Keep plowing on, keep picking upthe phone, keep generating
ideas, keep calling people,making new contacts.
Trying to make things happen.
That's as simple as it getsreally is keep going.
(01:51):
And then the third issue that isalways tricky is negotiating
negotiating deals, fees.
The problem with music is thatit's free.
I.
For most people, most of thetime, but only in the past few
years.
So you can now go to YouTube,you can listen to absolutely any
(02:11):
piece of music you want.
Free of charge doesn't cost youa cent.
Spotify is the same thing.
You can listen to it on Amazon,Alexa, you can listen to it
wherever you need free ofcharge.
And instantly.
Beverly (02:22):
Yeah.
Robert (02:23):
We all forget this has only happened in the past 7, 8,
9 years before that people usedto save for.
Their pocket money to go and buythe CD they wanted to buy or buy
the LP or the record they wantedto buy.
And they cherished it as aspecial thing that they'd saved
up money.
They went and bought it.
(02:43):
They listened to it.
And that's the lp, the cd, thealbum that they listened to
again and again.
And they understood the value ofmusic.
Music is expensive to make.
Sure you can type something intoAI and say, give me a song and
three and a half minutes lateryou've got a little rubbish.
But that, in terms of real musicit's expensive to make.
And so there's this nastysituation at the moment where
(03:06):
the world thinks music should befree.
But at the same time, peoplelike me have to, and are living
from music and it's expensive tomake, so it can't be free.
And so negotiating deals can bevery tricky because people were
like.
Can't you come and perform freeof charge for us and we'll just
give you a dinner?
And no, the dinner's not gonnaput the roof over my head.
(03:28):
So those are the main elements,the age, the fact that as a
self-employed person, you justhave to keep fighting that
fight.
And with negotiating you have tolearn negotiated skills to get
over the line of what you needto earn a living.
Those are the three main issuesI've had.
And two of them you have toactively figure out ways
(03:50):
forward.
Beverly (03:51):
I think that when you're trying to follow up with
people and you're trying to makesure that you have the next gig,
you are constantly trying tomake sure you're top of mind,
which is marketing, right?
Branding and marketing.
Making sure that you're stillstaying relevant.
And I do think that in the musicindustry, maybe more so than
others, there's like trends.
So people get shiny objectsyndrome and they go okay, we're
(04:13):
gonna do this boy band thingnow, or we're gonna do this now.
So you have to compete againstsome of that as well in what you
do, which is probably even morechallenging.
I can only imagine from amusician's perspective.
Robert (04:25):
Yeah, exactly.
There's a great book and I'mtrying to find out what it is.
I think it's called the Power ofNegotiating.
I need to just double checkthat.
Which it's a really thick book.
But I would totally recommendanybody and everybody to read
this book because it doesn'tmatter if you are trying to
market coca-Cola or if you'retrying to market an Apple
product or if you're trying tomarket self-help therapy,
(04:49):
counseling I know fences doesn'treally matter.
At some point we all have tonegotiate.
And we all have to deal withthat negotiation.
And this is a fantastic book andI just can't remember what it's
called, but I'll find it out foryou and let you know.
Beverly (05:03):
There's a book, I think it's The Power of Influence or
something like that.
Oh.
That's the one power ofinfluence.
That's the one.
Okay.
That is written by a man who wasa professional, like hostage
negotiator.
Is that who you're talkingabout?
Robert (05:14):
Yes, I think so.
The Power of Influence by JohnC.
Maxwell?
Beverly (05:18):
Yes.
It's very good.
I read it myself.
It's very good.
So if you are interested, thatis a great book.
I would totally agree with you
Robert (05:24):
That is one, but it's actually not the one I was
thinking about.
Not the one you were thinkingabout, but No, I have that one.
I'll find it.
Beverly (05:29):
So reflecting on your journey though, let's talk about
one aspect of your businessapproach.
You talked about negotiation alittle bit, but what has evolved
the most over time and what hasinspired that change, do you
think?
Robert (05:41):
That's a fantastic question.
What has evolved over time isthat the older and more
experienced I get, the more.
I am comfortable in my own skinand happy to say, this is my
fee, this is what I charge.
If it's too expensive for you,if you don't value it, if you
don't think I'm any good or youdon't think I'm worth that
(06:03):
amount of money, not a problem.
Then I'm not the person for you.
And just to not bow down toeverybody and be a puppy dog
trying to claw for work all thetime and just to sit back and
go, I do what I do.
I know I'm good at it.
Without being arrogant.
And I'm confident in it.
And I'm confident that what I'dlike to charge is Right.
(06:27):
And how did I get to thatsituation?
That's a very good question.
I think that's just time.
I don't think I did anythingspecific.
I think I've just grown older,wiser, I've had children.
My output and view in lifechanges dramatically with
children.
And I think my prioritiesprobably have changed over the
(06:49):
years.
And I just, I wanna work withnice people who value me and I
value them back.
And if they are not that rightperson, I'm happy to stay out of
it.
I think that's one major thingthat has changed in my life.
Beverly (07:03):
When we talk to our clients, so many solopreneurs
who are doing it on their ownand they're trying to do
something that brings morewellness or kindness or joy,
something to the world it canget the world can be a little
bit harsh and can beat you up alittle bit and it's hard, like
you feel like you have tosometimes placate or play a game
or something.
But as you evolve and grow andmature and understand your
(07:24):
experience and the realtransformation that you offer to
others, and maybe it is the grayhairs, maybe it's the wrinkles,
maybe it's life experience andperspective.
And maybe it's all the mistakesthat add up.
But I do agree with you, like atsome point.
But I think it's also thisprocess Robert, that talks a
little bit about when you arereally clear.
(07:46):
On your value.
When you're really clear whatyou offer, when you're really
clear on the transformationyou're going to create for your
audience and those kinds ofthings, the value that you offer
becomes so much more special andsignificant.
And that confidence side of it,we call it unicorn like
confidence for ourentrepreneurs, because unicorns
(08:07):
don't walk into a room and actsmall.
They walk into a room and likeyou said, it's not ego, it's
just they know they're special.
And you have to know your value,your worth, and it's important.
And the clearer you are, theearlier you can get clear Yeah.
And not wait 20 years ifpossible the better it's going
to be for you financially,entrepreneurially in those
(08:30):
areas.
For sure.
I could not agree with you more,Robert.
Robert (08:34):
Yeah.
And there is a fine line betweenbeing arrogant and being
confident.
And it can be a really difficultline, especially in my industry,
where you have to deal withdivas every day.
It can be a difficult line to,to find out.
And again I think that's justone of these experience things
where you just have to, berespectful of everybody else and
(08:54):
be understanding and be nice.
I think there's, there's so manybooks that we all read, so many
business books.
I got 124 books on my list toread of, the best self-help in
virtual commas or business bookspsychology books everything to
do with improving oneself.
And I don't just randomly pickthem, you find people like Tim
(09:17):
Ferris and he's got a list oftop four.
And then and the list goes on.
You find these people TonyRobbins, he's got a top five.
And so I've built up my ownlibrary, if you like, of these
collections of all these amazingpeople in the world and their
top four or five books and addedthem together to this 124 book
list.
But one of the things thatactually hardly anybody talks
about it, it's just the idea ofbeing nice.
(09:39):
Being friendly and respectfuland treating people how you
expect to be treated and thatwill go a long way in business.
there's this fallacy of we haveto be mean and evil and nasty
and hard nose and we have topump our fists and say, this is
what I demand, or I'm the best,or this is what I want.
Do you know what, I don't knowif that's necessary anymore.
(10:01):
I just think if you are reallytalented and good at what you do
and you are a nice person withit, that will take you a long
way.
Beverly (10:08):
At the end of the day, I wanna put my head on the
pillow knowing that I was a goodhuman being.
Yes.
Yeah, exactly.
It's more than the money, it'smore than the power.
It's more than control.
Yeah.
I wanna know that I was a goodhuman being at the end of the
day.
Robert (10:22):
Yeah.
Beverly (10:22):
Yes, I completely agree with you.
We need more good human beingsin the world.
Yeah.
Power and money isn'teverything.
Yeah.
It would be wonderful ifeverything happened to the
kindest and the most wonderfulhuman beings.
Robert (10:34):
Yeah.
Beverly (10:34):
It's not always the case, but it would be wonderful.
Robert (10:37):
Yeah.
Beverly (10:37):
Hey it to the listeners right now, if you are loving
this conversation, pleasesubscribe to this particular
podcast.
We'd love to have you along forthese wonderful kinds of
conversations like we're havingwith Robert today, and we'd love
for you to leave a review orshare this episode with someone
who you know needs it.
Maybe there's somebody in yourlife that you know that needs a
little bit of a push to be kindand really sit in that and not
(10:59):
to try to be something thatthey're not.
So please share it with them.
We would really appreciate itbecause the more people that can
discover this magic, the betterit can be.
More of our guests, like Robertcan get out there and get their
word out to everybody and can beexposed to these wonderful human
beings.
So I would really appreciatethat.
So here's the season's biggestquestion, Robert.
(11:21):
I believe everyone has brandmagic.
Yeah.
And it's that je ne sais quoi,it's the thing you can't put
your finger on.
Robert (11:28):
The X factor.
Beverly (11:30):
It's the X factor.
So how did you awaken your brandmagic?
And was there a spark or amoment where everything aligned
and then you saw the uniquemagic that you bring to the
table?
Was there a moment or was it,like you said just over time.
What was it for you?
Robert (11:46):
For me it came naturally and I was really lucky.
It's because I was young when Istarted performing and I didn't
have any rules, nobody said, youcan't talk to an audience.
Nobody said, you walk on stage,take a bar, sit at the piano and
play, and then walk off again,and you are very formal.
Nobody told me anything.
So for me it was totally naturalto walk on stage and say hello
(12:09):
to an audience and talk to them.
And explain what I'm gonna play,explain a bit of information
about the composer or the pieceof music, or a fascinating fact
or something they didn't know.
I once took apart a piano onstage,'cause I was talking about
a special feature in this pieceof, I can't remember, remanding
off or something to do with thepedals and the keyboards.
And the audience just lookedreally perplexed and confused
(12:30):
and I said, you have no ideawhat you, what I'm talking
about.
Do you, I'm gonna show you.
I'm gonna take the piano apartand I'll show you how the piano
works so you understand what I'mactually doing at this section.
So I broke all the rules, butnot because I was trying to be
rebellious, because I didn'tknow they existed when I was
younger.
I was just a kid.
And I have a very good feelingof what an audience likes and so
(12:51):
I quite quickly realized theaudience is really loving the
angle of how I'm treating thisconcert, this gig, and what I'm
doing here.
So it's what I've done for therest of my life.
I go on stage, I talk to anaudience, I have a microphone, I
make jokes.
I'm quite quick and witty andmake it fun.
Sometimes I just jump down fromthe stage and go into the
(13:12):
audience and talk to people whoknows what I'm gonna do.
That's part of the parcel ofbeing a bit creative on stage.
And that was the X factor interms of my package as a
presentation.
What makes me different fromeverybody else.
And I just found that naturallyand I think we are all different
and I think it's a really goodidea to try and figure out.
(13:32):
What and why you are differentand how you can be different.
I mentioned fencing because I'mliterally having my boundary of
200 meters fenced this week andlast week.
It's taking me forever to do.
And I was thinking about thisand I've got a friend who's like
a handyman.
He goes around to help peopleand, put up shelves or fix the
toilet or whatever.
And he was thinking aboutexpanding his business, but he
(13:53):
wasn't quite sure how to do it.
And I said, if you're gonnaemploy other people, why don't
you get them to turn up inpeople's houses with a shirt and
tie, or at least a very smartjacket, which is branded and
they call people Sir Madam.
And so this, you think of ahandyman as some guy in ripped
jeans coming around.
He's probably really fat andprobably smells horrible.
(14:14):
And he comes and fixes yourtoilet and then he calls
everybody love in the uk, andthen he'll disappear off again.
And so why don't you do thedirect opposite of that?
Why don't you have these peoplewho are.
Highly trained, highly skilledat what they do, but they are
bang on time.
They're formal when they need tobe.
They take off their shoes whenthey go into the property and
(14:36):
clean up after them.
They take a vacuum, a hoover.
And I said, why don't you dothat?
Why don't you just do theopposite of what everybody else
is doing?
And and it's the same with thefence guys here, the fence guys
were like, we need to draw morebusiness.
I said at the moment you looklike at 20 other fencing
companies in my area.
I live in a fairly wealthy area.
Why aren't you the ones who goround with a better presentation
(14:57):
and you are a bit more friendly.
So there's always that X factor.
You just have to find out whatit is.
And for me, it's just been a bitcrazy on stage.
Beverly (15:05):
I think you had youth on your side.
'cause I think as we get older,we get more constrained by
society.
Like you said, the rules of whatyou should and should not do.
And we get so I guess tied downby the shoulds.
Robert (15:17):
Yep.
Beverly (15:17):
And not the I wants.
Yep.
And so I love that your youthactually was your magic because
you didn't live in a box.
No.
You created your box.
Yeah.
Whatever that was that lookedlike for you.
You created what the box wasgonna look like.
And I think so many, I know somany entrepreneurs forget that
this is their business, thatthey get to decide what the box
(15:39):
looks like.
And it's not the shoulds, it'sthe I wants and this is who I am
and this is more fun or more, Ihave a wand, Robert, and it's
part of who I am, and I like tospread a little bit of magic and
there is something special aboutthat particular thing.
Not everybody carries a wandaround with them, but I
literally do in my purse.
So you have to find the thingthat works for you and your
(16:02):
unique magic.
But I love that youth was onyour side in this case.
I love that so much.
So I have a magic hat
Robert (16:10):
Oh yes.
Beverly (16:11):
With lots of questions in there.
Oh yes.
There's probably like 40questions.
Okay.
So this is like a lightninground.
It's a little bit faster.
Robert (16:17):
Let's go.
Beverly (16:18):
And I have, I'm gonna go through as many as I can in a
couple minutes.
Okay.
What's a surprising way yourpersonal values show up in your
business?
Robert (16:25):
That's supposed to be a quick fire question.
Okay.
Comedy I like comedy.
I like being funny.
I think it is nice to makepeople smile and laugh and I do
that on a daily basis.
If my wife isn't giggling duringthe day at some point to do with
me, I failed as a husband and Itry and get my audience, my
colleagues, my clients to do thesame.
Beverly (16:45):
Tell us about a time when you had to pivot and what
did you learn?
Robert (16:49):
COVID there's no good being a conductor at home when
you are locked in your ownliving room.
So I set up Ted's list, which isthe musical education website
'cause I could do that bymyself.
Sitting at home, helping otherslearn music.
Beverly (17:02):
What's one marketing trend that needs to dial already
Be honest.
Robert (17:06):
Marketing trend that needs to die.
Oh.
Emojis.
I hate them.
Beverly (17:10):
Emojis.
Okay.
What's the most WTF thing thathas ever happened in your
business, good or bad?
Robert (17:15):
Oh I had to get on a private jet once and go to a
concert, a private concert.
I didn't know which country Iwas going to, and I didn't know
which billionaire I was workingfor.
Oh, interesting.
And when I got there, the planedoor opened.
Somebody greeted me at thebottom of the steps and I
assumed it was like thechauffeur or something, and I
gave him my bags and moved onand got into this car that was
(17:39):
waiting from me.
And got into this palace.
And then I was introduced to thebillionaire, who was the
gentleman that I gave my bagsto.
Beverly (17:48):
I kinda knew where that was going and I was like, oh no.
Robert (17:51):
Yep.
Beverly (17:52):
That sounds like a prince moment or something like
Prince, something Prince woulddo.
Robert (17:56):
No comment.
Beverly (17:56):
If you could wave a magic wand and solve one current
challenge for your business,what would it be?
Robert (18:02):
Have more financial stability.
Beverly (18:05):
If your brand had a dating profile, how would it
describe itself?
Robert (18:09):
Fun, crazy, lovable.
Like me.
Beverly (18:12):
What's been the hardest part about being an
entrepreneur?
Robert (18:15):
Maintaining the confidence that you will get to
where you want to be one day.
Beverly (18:23):
What is a decision that completely changed the
trajectory of your business?
Robert (18:29):
Deciding to move away from just playing piano for a
living, to being an all aroundmusician who conducts composers,
orchestrates music, producers,work in theater, tv, radio,
symphony, you name it.
Beverly (18:42):
That is the end of the magic hat round.
Brilliant.
Robert (18:45):
I like that.
That's a good round.
Beverly (18:47):
I love it.
Robert (18:48):
I should give you an extra one.
What is the name of the bookthat you've forgotten is called
Influence the Psychology ofPersuasion.
Ah, Robert B.
Chaldini.
Beverly (18:59):
There you go.
Robert (18:59):
Influence the psychology of Persuasion.
An amazing book.
Everybody should read.
It should
Beverly (19:04):
read.
Okay.
We can put it in the show notestoo so that people can click
right on there.
Great.
Robert (19:08):
Great.
Beverly (19:09):
So the next round is all about the magic wand,
Robert.
Good.
I have a magic wand and in oneof its magical powers is that we
can travel through time.
Good.
So I'm going to wave the wandand take us back to, I don't
know, 10-year-old Robert sincethat's when you started touring.
And I want you to give thatRobert one piece of advice that
(19:29):
you wish you'd had before.
Robert (19:30):
A ignore what everybody says and follow your gut.
Beverly (19:33):
What would Robert, that Robert say about you now?
Robert (19:37):
It's like a school report.
Could do better, could have beenworse.
Beverly (19:44):
Didn't do his best work.
He's much smarter than hepretends to be.
Robert (19:49):
Yeah.
Fake it till you make it.
Beverly (19:50):
That's so good.
Okay, now I'm gonna wave my wineand we're gonna go into the
future far into the future,decades.
Okay.
And we're gonna be at yourfuneral and someone is gonna be
talking about your eulogy.
Talk about what they're sayingand your impact is on the world,
what impact you've left.
Robert (20:06):
I hope they would turn around and say, God, he was that
crazy guy who made me fall inlove with classical music.
Or symphonic music if I get oneperson saying that I've done my
job.
Beverly (20:19):
I think you have the autistic fellow already
convinced.
So I think you're on the righttrack, Robert.
Okay.
I'm gonna bring us back tocurrent day.
Robert (20:27):
Yep.
Beverly (20:27):
And I'm going to give you the power of the magic wand,
and I'm going to ask you what isone question you wish I would
ask you?
Robert (20:34):
One question I would like you to ask me.
A tricky one.
Know what, how about somethingwhich has got nothing to do with
marketing but something that alot of people will be wondering,
what does a conductor actuallydo?
Beverly (20:51):
What does a conductor actually do, Robert?
Robert (20:54):
Besides waving my arms around a lot and getting paid to
do it and holding a stick a CEOof a business, does the CEO go
and do all of the work that allof the people under him or her.
And do they get into the nittygritty of everything?
No, they don't.
Just does the conductor make anynoise whatsoever?
No, they don't.
(21:15):
They don't make any music.
But without the CEO, thebusiness doesn't function.
It has no direction.
It has no understanding.
Without a conductor, anorchestra has no understanding,
it has no direction.
So that's what I do.
A lot of people think you justbeat time, and that is like the
fundamental element of what youdo as a conductor.
Everybody, if there's 80 peopleon stage, they need to know when
(21:37):
to start playing together, andthere has to be one person
telling them that.
But that's the base camp.
Everything on top of that is.
How loud do you play?
How violent do you play?
How romantic do you play?
Are you too romantic?
Is it too slushy and boring?
Does it need to speed up a bit?
Is it too fast, too slow?
Is it powerful enough?
(21:57):
The solo from the flute, is itcoming across one flute player
60 violinists?
Is it projecting enough?
Do I need to get the violiniststo play quieter?
All of these questions plus amillion more, that's what a
conductor does.
They create the direction andjust like the CEO of a company.
But fundamentally, I just wavemy arms and hold a stick.
Beverly (22:19):
Do you wear the tails too?
Robert (22:21):
I do.
Not always.
Not always, but I have likesparkly suits and things as
well.
I have crazy and quite often Iconduct barefooted as well.
Beverly (22:29):
Oh, I love that so much.
There's a community band inDetroit.
It's the Farmington Communityband.
One of my best friends plays theflute in the band, and when I go
their conductor, I have a littlebit of a fan girl thing about
him.
I love the way he conducts.
He's just so fun to watch andhe's having the time of his
freaking life up there and youcan just tell that he's having
(22:53):
so much fun.
he's radiating joy.
He conducts.
And I think it is far more thanjust waving your arms around.
So I would agree with you.
Like he's one of my mostfavorite people to watch conduct
because he's just joy with astick.
He's just joy.
Oh, but
Robert (23:10):
That's the subtitle for this podcast, isn't it?
Robert Emery.
Joy With a Stick.
Joy With a Stick.
Beverly (23:15):
I love it.
I love it.
I love it.
So I have one last question.
Robert (23:19):
Shoot.
I
Beverly (23:19):
always like to give some practical advice to those
that are listening, what theycan do today.
Is there one tip or strategy youcould give to them on how they
could lean into or awaken theirbrand magic More
Robert (23:32):
yeah.
First of all, and I've said itso many times, and I'll say it
again.
Go.
And by the influence, thepsychology persuasion.
It's not just about negotiationinfluence.
Is the title, the Psychology ofPersuasion Marketing is just
about trying to persuade peopleto buy something from you.
And if you understand thepsychology of that and you
understand the tricks of thetrade then that is half the
(23:52):
battle.
Everybody thinks it's to do withalgorithms and what color are
you gonna use, what font you'regonna use.
And of course, that's allimportant, but you have to know
why people buy something in thefirst place, whether that's a
ticket to the symphony orwhether it's the can of Coke.
There's a reason why Coca-Colacreate those fantastic Christmas
adverts.
(24:12):
And that big Coca-Cola truckcomes in a snowy city somewhere
and it looks magical and there'sfairy lights everywhere and it
looks beautiful.
It is just a can of
Beverly (24:23):
sugar, water,
Robert (24:24):
brown sugar, water.
Yeah.
But looking at that marketing,looking at that advert guy, it
makes you feel at Christmas timethat Coke is Christmas.
Christmas is coke.
Beverly (24:33):
It creates a feeling, a very powerful feeling of
connection.
Yes.
Robert (24:37):
And they're persuading you.
They're influencing you.
So go and buy influence topsychology.
Persuasion.
I don't know the author.
It was written when I was oneyears old.
I've never spoken to him.
It's got nothing to do with me.
I just think it's a clever bookthat every human actually should
read.
Beverly (24:52):
You're persuading every day.
I tell my son all the time,yeah, you're marketing that you
wanna join soccer, you'remarketing that you, whatever the
thing is what you wanna do, youhave to know how to market it.
So the mommy and daddy say yes.
Robert (25:02):
Exactly.
Beverly (25:03):
I agree completely.
Yeah.
Before we wrap up, I have aquick favor for my listeners.
If today's episode sparkedsomething in you, just leave us
a review.
Let us know what you learned,what really connected.
It's really important'cause ifwe know you love it, it just
creates more inspiration for usand for others who may find it
helpful as well.
So before we go though, Robert,please share where more people
(25:24):
can learn about you and all thethings you're involved in and
upcoming, maybe events thatyou're participating in.
Robert (25:30):
Sure.
Go to robert emery.com.
R-O-B-E-R-T-E-M-E-R y.com.
That's the main website.
The Educational Music educationwebsite is Ted's List.
My son is called Teddy, so it'snamed after him.
That's TEDS with a-list.com,teds-list.com.
But apart from that, just Googleme and you'll see a ton of stuff
(25:52):
come up.
Beverly (25:52):
Robert, it's been such a fun conversation today talking
about music and life andconfidence and influence.
Thank you so much for sharingyour wisdom and your journey and
a little bit of your magic withus.
I really appreciate it.
Robert (26:05):
My pleasure.
Thank you.
I
Beverly (26:06):
know that our listeners are gonna walk away with some
really great nuggets ofinformation and just really
enjoy our time together.
I'm so grateful for you to spendthis time with me and the impact
that you're making on the worldwith music is very important.
Robert (26:18):
Thanks, Beverly.
Beverly (26:18):
So with that being said, if you found this to be
inspiring, please make sure youtune in to future episodes of
the Spark and Ignite yourmarketing podcast.
But until next time, keepsparking and igniting.
Hello.
(00:00):
Before we dive into part two ofthis episode, I gotta ask, did
you catch part one?
If not, hit pause real quick.
You'll wanna start from thebeginning to get the full
effect.
The link to part one is rightdown in the description below.
Go ahead, catch up, and we'll beright here waiting for you.
Ready to dive into part two whenyou're all set.
It's worth it, I promise.
What has been the biggestchallenge of your career and how
(00:21):
have you overcome it?
Robert (00:23):
Had two, two or three real big sort of themes of
challenging, one I'm naturallyovercoming as I get older and
ageism was a massive issue forme in terms of I was too young.
Imagine a 20-year-old signing upconducting an orchestra of 80 to
90 players who may be, are age40 to 80.
And they sit there going whatdoes this 20-year-old know?
(00:45):
He was still in diapers when Iwas, graduating from the music
college.
So I had a lot of a lot ofissues when I was younger with
people not just naturallythinking he's not gonna be very
good because he's young.
That's naturally resolvingitself.
Now that I'm getting morewrinkly.
Second issue is finding thework.
(01:08):
I'm a freelance musician.
Maybe I have a hundred gigs in ayear.
Maybe I have 10 gigs in a year.
Maybe I have none.
Maybe the phone stops ringing.
That's a really horriblesituation to be in When you
start January the first and youlook at your diary and you go,
yeah, I got probably like fourgigs in this year so far which
(01:30):
is enough to pay maybe two weeksworth of my mortgage.
And you go, whoa that could bescary.
And the only way to deal withthat is just to have the
confidence that you're gonna befine.
Keep plowing on, keep picking upthe phone, keep generating
ideas, keep calling people,making new contacts.
Trying to make things happen.
That's as simple as it getsreally is keep going.
(01:51):
And then the third issue that isalways tricky is negotiating
negotiating deals, fees.
The problem with music is thatit's free.
I.
For most people, most of thetime, but only in the past few
years.
So you can now go to YouTube,you can listen to absolutely any
(02:11):
piece of music you want.
Free of charge doesn't cost youa cent.
Spotify is the same thing.
You can listen to it on Amazon,Alexa, you can listen to it
wherever you need free ofcharge.
And instantly.
Beverly (02:22):
Yeah.
Robert (02:23):
We all forget this has only happened in the past 7, 8,
9 years before that people usedto save for.
Their pocket money to go and buythe CD they wanted to buy or buy
the LP or the record they wantedto buy.
And they cherished it as aspecial thing that they'd saved
up money.
They went and bought it.
(02:43):
They listened to it.
And that's the lp, the cd, thealbum that they listened to
again and again.
And they understood the value ofmusic.
Music is expensive to make.
Sure you can type something intoAI and say, give me a song and
three and a half minutes lateryou've got a little rubbish.
But that, in terms of real musicit's expensive to make.
And so there's this nastysituation at the moment where
(03:06):
the world thinks music should befree.
But at the same time, peoplelike me have to, and are living
from music and it's expensive tomake, so it can't be free.
And so negotiating deals can bevery tricky because people were
like.
Can't you come and perform freeof charge for us and we'll just
give you a dinner?
And no, the dinner's not gonnaput the roof over my head.
(03:28):
So those are the main elements,the age, the fact that as a
self-employed person, you justhave to keep fighting that
fight.
And with negotiating you have tolearn negotiated skills to get
over the line of what you needto earn a living.
Those are the three main issuesI've had.
And two of them you have toactively figure out ways
(03:50):
forward.
Beverly (03:51):
I think that when you're trying to follow up with
people and you're trying to makesure that you have the next gig,
you are constantly trying tomake sure you're top of mind,
which is marketing, right?
Branding and marketing.
Making sure that you're stillstaying relevant.
And I do think that in the musicindustry, maybe more so than
others, there's like trends.
So people get shiny objectsyndrome and they go okay, we're
(04:13):
gonna do this boy band thingnow, or we're gonna do this now.
So you have to compete againstsome of that as well in what you
do, which is probably even morechallenging.
I can only imagine from amusician's perspective.
Robert (04:25):
Yeah, exactly.
There's a great book and I'mtrying to find out what it is.
I think it's called the Power ofNegotiating.
I need to just double checkthat.
Which it's a really thick book.
But I would totally recommendanybody and everybody to read
this book because it doesn'tmatter if you are trying to
market coca-Cola or if you'retrying to market an Apple
product or if you're trying tomarket self-help therapy,
(04:49):
counseling I know fences doesn'treally matter.
At some point we all have tonegotiate.
And we all have to deal withthat negotiation.
And this is a fantastic book andI just can't remember what it's
called, but I'll find it out foryou and let you know.
Beverly (05:03):
There's a book, I think it's The Power of Influence or
something like that.
Oh.
That's the one power ofinfluence.
That's the one.
Okay.
That is written by a man who wasa professional, like hostage
negotiator.
Is that who you're talkingabout?
Robert (05:14):
Yes, I think so.
The Power of Influence by JohnC.
Maxwell?
Beverly (05:18):
Yes.
It's very good.
I read it myself.
It's very good.
So if you are interested, thatis a great book.
I would totally agree with you
Robert (05:24):
That is one, but it's actually not the one I was
thinking about.
Not the one you were thinkingabout, but No, I have that one.
I'll find it.
Beverly (05:29):
So reflecting on your journey though, let's talk about
one aspect of your businessapproach.
You talked about negotiation alittle bit, but what has evolved
the most over time and what hasinspired that change, do you
think?
Robert (05:41):
That's a fantastic question.
What has evolved over time isthat the older and more
experienced I get, the more.
I am comfortable in my own skinand happy to say, this is my
fee, this is what I charge.
If it's too expensive for you,if you don't value it, if you
don't think I'm any good or youdon't think I'm worth that
(06:03):
amount of money, not a problem.
Then I'm not the person for you.
And just to not bow down toeverybody and be a puppy dog
trying to claw for work all thetime and just to sit back and
go, I do what I do.
I know I'm good at it.
Without being arrogant.
And I'm confident in it.
And I'm confident that what I'dlike to charge is Right.
(06:27):
And how did I get to thatsituation?
That's a very good question.
I think that's just time.
I don't think I did anythingspecific.
I think I've just grown older,wiser, I've had children.
My output and view in lifechanges dramatically with
children.
And I think my prioritiesprobably have changed over the
(06:49):
years.
And I just, I wanna work withnice people who value me and I
value them back.
And if they are not that rightperson, I'm happy to stay out of
it.
I think that's one major thingthat has changed in my life.
Beverly (07:03):
When we talk to our clients, so many solopreneurs
who are doing it on their ownand they're trying to do
something that brings morewellness or kindness or joy,
something to the world it canget the world can be a little
bit harsh and can beat you up alittle bit and it's hard, like
you feel like you have tosometimes placate or play a game
or something.
But as you evolve and grow andmature and understand your
(07:24):
experience and the realtransformation that you offer to
others, and maybe it is the grayhairs, maybe it's the wrinkles,
maybe it's life experience andperspective.
And maybe it's all the mistakesthat add up.
But I do agree with you, like atsome point.
But I think it's also thisprocess Robert, that talks a
little bit about when you arereally clear.
(07:46):
On your value.
When you're really clear whatyou offer, when you're really
clear on the transformationyou're going to create for your
audience and those kinds ofthings, the value that you offer
becomes so much more special andsignificant.
And that confidence side of it,we call it unicorn like
confidence for ourentrepreneurs, because unicorns
(08:07):
don't walk into a room and actsmall.
They walk into a room and likeyou said, it's not ego, it's
just they know they're special.
And you have to know your value,your worth, and it's important.
And the clearer you are, theearlier you can get clear Yeah.
And not wait 20 years ifpossible the better it's going
to be for you financially,entrepreneurially in those
(08:30):
areas.
For sure.
I could not agree with you more,Robert.
Robert (08:34):
Yeah.
And there is a fine line betweenbeing arrogant and being
confident.
And it can be a really difficultline, especially in my industry,
where you have to deal withdivas every day.
It can be a difficult line to,to find out.
And again I think that's justone of these experience things
where you just have to, berespectful of everybody else and
(08:54):
be understanding and be nice.
I think there's, there's so manybooks that we all read, so many
business books.
I got 124 books on my list toread of, the best self-help in
virtual commas or business bookspsychology books everything to
do with improving oneself.
And I don't just randomly pickthem, you find people like Tim
(09:17):
Ferris and he's got a list oftop four.
And then and the list goes on.
You find these people TonyRobbins, he's got a top five.
And so I've built up my ownlibrary, if you like, of these
collections of all these amazingpeople in the world and their
top four or five books and addedthem together to this 124 book
list.
But one of the things thatactually hardly anybody talks
about it, it's just the idea ofbeing nice.
(09:39):
Being friendly and respectfuland treating people how you
expect to be treated and thatwill go a long way in business.
there's this fallacy of we haveto be mean and evil and nasty
and hard nose and we have topump our fists and say, this is
what I demand, or I'm the best,or this is what I want.
Do you know what, I don't knowif that's necessary anymore.
(10:01):
I just think if you are reallytalented and good at what you do
and you are a nice person withit, that will take you a long
way.
Beverly (10:08):
At the end of the day, I wanna put my head on the
pillow knowing that I was a goodhuman being.
Yes.
Yeah, exactly.
It's more than the money, it'smore than the power.
It's more than control.
Yeah.
I wanna know that I was a goodhuman being at the end of the
day.
Robert (10:22):
Yeah.
Beverly (10:22):
Yes, I completely agree with you.
We need more good human beingsin the world.
Yeah.
Power and money isn'teverything.
Yeah.
It would be wonderful ifeverything happened to the
kindest and the most wonderfulhuman beings.
Robert (10:34):
Yeah.
Beverly (10:34):
It's not always the case, but it would be wonderful.
Robert (10:37):
Yeah.
Beverly (10:37):
Hey it to the listeners right now, if you are loving
this conversation, pleasesubscribe to this particular
podcast.
We'd love to have you along forthese wonderful kinds of
conversations like we're havingwith Robert today, and we'd love
for you to leave a review orshare this episode with someone
who you know needs it.
Maybe there's somebody in yourlife that you know that needs a
little bit of a push to be kindand really sit in that and not
(10:59):
to try to be something thatthey're not.
So please share it with them.
We would really appreciate itbecause the more people that can
discover this magic, the betterit can be.
More of our guests, like Robertcan get out there and get their
word out to everybody and can beexposed to these wonderful human
beings.
So I would really appreciatethat.
So here's the season's biggestquestion, Robert.
(11:21):
I believe everyone has brandmagic.
Yeah.
And it's that je ne sais quoi,it's the thing you can't put
your finger on.
Robert (11:28):
The X factor.
Beverly (11:30):
It's the X factor.
So how did you awaken your brandmagic?
And was there a spark or amoment where everything aligned
and then you saw the uniquemagic that you bring to the
table?
Was there a moment or was it,like you said just over time.
What was it for you?
Robert (11:46):
For me it came naturally and I was really lucky.
It's because I was young when Istarted performing and I didn't
have any rules, nobody said, youcan't talk to an audience.
Nobody said, you walk on stage,take a bar, sit at the piano and
play, and then walk off again,and you are very formal.
Nobody told me anything.
So for me it was totally naturalto walk on stage and say hello
(12:09):
to an audience and talk to them.
And explain what I'm gonna play,explain a bit of information
about the composer or the pieceof music, or a fascinating fact
or something they didn't know.
I once took apart a piano onstage,'cause I was talking about
a special feature in this pieceof, I can't remember, remanding
off or something to do with thepedals and the keyboards.
And the audience just lookedreally perplexed and confused
(12:30):
and I said, you have no ideawhat you, what I'm talking
about.
Do you, I'm gonna show you.
I'm gonna take the piano apartand I'll show you how the piano
works so you understand what I'mactually doing at this section.
So I broke all the rules, butnot because I was trying to be
rebellious, because I didn'tknow they existed when I was
younger.
I was just a kid.
And I have a very good feelingof what an audience likes and so
(12:51):
I quite quickly realized theaudience is really loving the
angle of how I'm treating thisconcert, this gig, and what I'm
doing here.
So it's what I've done for therest of my life.
I go on stage, I talk to anaudience, I have a microphone, I
make jokes.
I'm quite quick and witty andmake it fun.
Sometimes I just jump down fromthe stage and go into the
(13:12):
audience and talk to people whoknows what I'm gonna do.
That's part of the parcel ofbeing a bit creative on stage.
And that was the X factor interms of my package as a
presentation.
What makes me different fromeverybody else.
And I just found that naturallyand I think we are all different
and I think it's a really goodidea to try and figure out.
(13:32):
What and why you are differentand how you can be different.
I mentioned fencing because I'mliterally having my boundary of
200 meters fenced this week andlast week.
It's taking me forever to do.
And I was thinking about thisand I've got a friend who's like
a handyman.
He goes around to help peopleand, put up shelves or fix the
toilet or whatever.
And he was thinking aboutexpanding his business, but he
(13:53):
wasn't quite sure how to do it.
And I said, if you're gonnaemploy other people, why don't
you get them to turn up inpeople's houses with a shirt and
tie, or at least a very smartjacket, which is branded and
they call people Sir Madam.
And so this, you think of ahandyman as some guy in ripped
jeans coming around.
He's probably really fat andprobably smells horrible.
(14:14):
And he comes and fixes yourtoilet and then he calls
everybody love in the uk, andthen he'll disappear off again.
And so why don't you do thedirect opposite of that?
Why don't you have these peoplewho are.
Highly trained, highly skilledat what they do, but they are
bang on time.
They're formal when they need tobe.
They take off their shoes whenthey go into the property and
(14:36):
clean up after them.
They take a vacuum, a hoover.
And I said, why don't you dothat?
Why don't you just do theopposite of what everybody else
is doing?
And and it's the same with thefence guys here, the fence guys
were like, we need to draw morebusiness.
I said at the moment you looklike at 20 other fencing
companies in my area.
I live in a fairly wealthy area.
Why aren't you the ones who goround with a better presentation
(14:57):
and you are a bit more friendly.
So there's always that X factor.
You just have to find out whatit is.
And for me, it's just been a bitcrazy on stage.
Beverly (15:05):
I think you had youth on your side.
'cause I think as we get older,we get more constrained by
society.
Like you said, the rules of whatyou should and should not do.
And we get so I guess tied downby the shoulds.
Robert (15:17):
Yep.
Beverly (15:17):
And not the I wants.
Yep.
And so I love that your youthactually was your magic because
you didn't live in a box.
No.
You created your box.
Yeah.
Whatever that was that lookedlike for you.
You created what the box wasgonna look like.
And I think so many, I know somany entrepreneurs forget that
this is their business, thatthey get to decide what the box
(15:39):
looks like.
And it's not the shoulds, it'sthe I wants and this is who I am
and this is more fun or more, Ihave a wand, Robert, and it's
part of who I am, and I like tospread a little bit of magic and
there is something special aboutthat particular thing.
Not everybody carries a wandaround with them, but I
literally do in my purse.
So you have to find the thingthat works for you and your
(16:02):
unique magic.
But I love that youth was onyour side in this case.
I love that so much.
So I have a magic hat
Robert (16:10):
Oh yes.
Beverly (16:11):
With lots of questions in there.
Oh yes.
There's probably like 40questions.
Okay.
So this is like a lightninground.
It's a little bit faster.
Robert (16:17):
Let's go.
Beverly (16:18):
And I have, I'm gonna go through as many as I can in a
couple minutes.
Okay.
What's a surprising way yourpersonal values show up in your
business?
Robert (16:25):
That's supposed to be a quick fire question.
Okay.
Comedy I like comedy.
I like being funny.
I think it is nice to makepeople smile and laugh and I do
that on a daily basis.
If my wife isn't giggling duringthe day at some point to do with
me, I failed as a husband and Itry and get my audience, my
colleagues, my clients to do thesame.
Beverly (16:45):
Tell us about a time when you had to pivot and what
did you learn?
Robert (16:49):
COVID there's no good being a conductor at home when
you are locked in your ownliving room.
So I set up Ted's list, which isthe musical education website
'cause I could do that bymyself.
Sitting at home, helping otherslearn music.
Beverly (17:02):
What's one marketing trend that needs to dial already
Be honest.
Robert (17:06):
Marketing trend that needs to die.
Oh.
Emojis.
I hate them.
Beverly (17:10):
Emojis.
Okay.
What's the most WTF thing thathas ever happened in your
business, good or bad?
Robert (17:15):
Oh I had to get on a private jet once and go to a
concert, a private concert.
I didn't know which country Iwas going to, and I didn't know
which billionaire I was workingfor.
Oh, interesting.
And when I got there, the planedoor opened.
Somebody greeted me at thebottom of the steps and I
assumed it was like thechauffeur or something, and I
gave him my bags and moved onand got into this car that was
(17:39):
waiting from me.
And got into this palace.
And then I was introduced to thebillionaire, who was the
gentleman that I gave my bagsto.
Beverly (17:48):
I kinda knew where that was going and I was like, oh no.
Robert (17:51):
Yep.
Beverly (17:52):
That sounds like a prince moment or something like
Prince, something Prince woulddo.
Robert (17:56):
No comment.
Beverly (17:56):
If you could wave a magic wand and solve one current
challenge for your business,what would it be?
Robert (18:02):
Have more financial stability.
Beverly (18:05):
If your brand had a dating profile, how would it
describe itself?
Robert (18:09):
Fun, crazy, lovable.
Like me.
Beverly (18:12):
What's been the hardest part about being an
entrepreneur?
Robert (18:15):
Maintaining the confidence that you will get to
where you want to be one day.
Beverly (18:23):
What is a decision that completely changed the
trajectory of your business?
Robert (18:29):
Deciding to move away from just playing piano for a
living, to being an all aroundmusician who conducts composers,
orchestrates music, producers,work in theater, tv, radio,
symphony, you name it.
Beverly (18:42):
That is the end of the magic hat round.
Brilliant.
Robert (18:45):
I like that.
That's a good round.
Beverly (18:47):
I love it.
Robert (18:48):
I should give you an extra one.
What is the name of the bookthat you've forgotten is called
Influence the Psychology ofPersuasion.
Ah, Robert B.
Chaldini.
Beverly (18:59):
There you go.
Robert (18:59):
Influence the psychology of Persuasion.
An amazing book.
Everybody should read.
It should
Beverly (19:04):
read.
Okay.
We can put it in the show notestoo so that people can click
right on there.
Great.
Robert (19:08):
Great.
Beverly (19:09):
So the next round is all about the magic wand,
Robert.
Good.
I have a magic wand and in oneof its magical powers is that we
can travel through time.
Good.
So I'm going to wave the wandand take us back to, I don't
know, 10-year-old Robert sincethat's when you started touring.
And I want you to give thatRobert one piece of advice that
(19:29):
you wish you'd had before.
Robert (19:30):
A ignore what everybody says and follow your gut.
Beverly (19:33):
What would Robert, that Robert say about you now?
Robert (19:37):
It's like a school report.
Could do better, could have beenworse.
Beverly (19:44):
Didn't do his best work.
He's much smarter than hepretends to be.
Robert (19:49):
Yeah.
Fake it till you make it.
Beverly (19:50):
That's so good.
Okay, now I'm gonna wave my wineand we're gonna go into the
future far into the future,decades.
Okay.
And we're gonna be at yourfuneral and someone is gonna be
talking about your eulogy.
Talk about what they're sayingand your impact is on the world,
what impact you've left.
Robert (20:06):
I hope they would turn around and say, God, he was that
crazy guy who made me fall inlove with classical music.
Or symphonic music if I get oneperson saying that I've done my
job.
Beverly (20:19):
I think you have the autistic fellow already
convinced.
So I think you're on the righttrack, Robert.
Okay.
I'm gonna bring us back tocurrent day.
Robert (20:27):
Yep.
Beverly (20:27):
And I'm going to give you the power of the magic wand,
and I'm going to ask you what isone question you wish I would
ask you?
Robert (20:34):
One question I would like you to ask me.
A tricky one.
Know what, how about somethingwhich has got nothing to do with
marketing but something that alot of people will be wondering,
what does a conductor actuallydo?
Beverly (20:51):
What does a conductor actually do, Robert?
Robert (20:54):
Besides waving my arms around a lot and getting paid to
do it and holding a stick a CEOof a business, does the CEO go
and do all of the work that allof the people under him or her.
And do they get into the nittygritty of everything?
No, they don't.
Just does the conductor make anynoise whatsoever?
No, they don't.
(21:15):
They don't make any music.
But without the CEO, thebusiness doesn't function.
It has no direction.
It has no understanding.
Without a conductor, anorchestra has no understanding,
it has no direction.
So that's what I do.
A lot of people think you justbeat time, and that is like the
fundamental element of what youdo as a conductor.
Everybody, if there's 80 peopleon stage, they need to know when
(21:37):
to start playing together, andthere has to be one person
telling them that.
But that's the base camp.
Everything on top of that is.
How loud do you play?
How violent do you play?
How romantic do you play?
Are you too romantic?
Is it too slushy and boring?
Does it need to speed up a bit?
Is it too fast, too slow?
Is it powerful enough?
(21:57):
The solo from the flute, is itcoming across one flute player
60 violinists?
Is it projecting enough?
Do I need to get the violiniststo play quieter?
All of these questions plus amillion more, that's what a
conductor does.
They create the direction andjust like the CEO of a company.
But fundamentally, I just wavemy arms and hold a stick.
Beverly (22:19):
Do you wear the tails too?
Robert (22:21):
I do.
Not always.
Not always, but I have likesparkly suits and things as
well.
I have crazy and quite often Iconduct barefooted as well.
Beverly (22:29):
Oh, I love that so much.
There's a community band inDetroit.
It's the Farmington Communityband.
One of my best friends plays theflute in the band, and when I go
their conductor, I have a littlebit of a fan girl thing about
him.
I love the way he conducts.
He's just so fun to watch andhe's having the time of his
freaking life up there and youcan just tell that he's having
(22:53):
so much fun.
he's radiating joy.
He conducts.
And I think it is far more thanjust waving your arms around.
So I would agree with you.
Like he's one of my mostfavorite people to watch conduct
because he's just joy with astick.
He's just joy.
Oh, but
Robert (23:10):
That's the subtitle for this podcast, isn't it?
Robert Emery.
Joy With a Stick.
Joy With a Stick.
Beverly (23:15):
I love it.
I love it.
I love it.
So I have one last question.
Robert (23:19):
Shoot.
I
Beverly (23:19):
always like to give some practical advice to those
that are listening, what theycan do today.
Is there one tip or strategy youcould give to them on how they
could lean into or awaken theirbrand magic More
Robert (23:32):
yeah.
First of all, and I've said itso many times, and I'll say it
again.
Go.
And by the influence, thepsychology persuasion.
It's not just about negotiationinfluence.
Is the title, the Psychology ofPersuasion Marketing is just
about trying to persuade peopleto buy something from you.
And if you understand thepsychology of that and you
understand the tricks of thetrade then that is half the
(23:52):
battle.
Everybody thinks it's to do withalgorithms and what color are
you gonna use, what font you'regonna use.
And of course, that's allimportant, but you have to know
why people buy something in thefirst place, whether that's a
ticket to the symphony orwhether it's the can of Coke.
There's a reason why Coca-Colacreate those fantastic Christmas
adverts.
(24:12):
And that big Coca-Cola truckcomes in a snowy city somewhere
and it looks magical and there'sfairy lights everywhere and it
looks beautiful.
It is just a can of
Beverly (24:23):
sugar, water,
Robert (24:24):
brown sugar, water.
Yeah.
But looking at that marketing,looking at that advert guy, it
makes you feel at Christmas timethat Coke is Christmas.
Christmas is coke.
Beverly (24:33):
It creates a feeling, a very powerful feeling of
connection.
Yes.
Robert (24:37):
And they're persuading you.
They're influencing you.
So go and buy influence topsychology.
Persuasion.
I don't know the author.
It was written when I was oneyears old.
I've never spoken to him.
It's got nothing to do with me.
I just think it's a clever bookthat every human actually should
read.
Beverly (24:52):
You're persuading every day.
I tell my son all the time,yeah, you're marketing that you
wanna join soccer, you'remarketing that you, whatever the
thing is what you wanna do, youhave to know how to market it.
So the mommy and daddy say yes.
Robert (25:02):
Exactly.
Beverly (25:03):
I agree completely.
Yeah.
Before we wrap up, I have aquick favor for my listeners.
If today's episode sparkedsomething in you, just leave us
a review.
Let us know what you learned,what really connected.
It's really important'cause ifwe know you love it, it just
creates more inspiration for usand for others who may find it
helpful as well.
So before we go though, Robert,please share where more people
(25:24):
can learn about you and all thethings you're involved in and
upcoming, maybe events thatyou're participating in.
Robert (25:30):
Sure.
Go to robert emery.com.
R-O-B-E-R-T-E-M-E-R y.com.
That's the main website.
The Educational Music educationwebsite is Ted's List.
My son is called Teddy, so it'snamed after him.
That's TEDS with a-list.com,teds-list.com.
But apart from that, just Googleme and you'll see a ton of stuff
(25:52):
come up.
Beverly (25:52):
Robert, it's been such a fun conversation today talking
about music and life andconfidence and influence.
Thank you so much for sharingyour wisdom and your journey and
a little bit of your magic withus.
I really appreciate it.
Robert (26:05):
My pleasure.
Thank you.
I
Beverly (26:06):
know that our listeners are gonna walk away with some
really great nuggets ofinformation and just really
enjoy our time together.
I'm so grateful for you to spendthis time with me and the impact
that you're making on the worldwith music is very important.
Robert (26:18):
Thanks, Beverly.
Beverly (26:18):
So with that being said, if you found this to be
inspiring, please make sure youtune in to future episodes of
the Spark and Ignite yourmarketing podcast.
But until next time, keepsparking and igniting.
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