August 26, 2025 • 23 mins
Welcome to Spark & Ignite Your Marketing, the podcast where real conversations meet real strategies. I'm your host, Beverly Cornell, founder and fairy godmother of brand clarity at Wickedly Branded. With over 25 years of experience, I’ve helped hundreds of entrepreneurs awaken their brand magic, attract the right people, and build businesses that light them up.
Over 7 million adults in the U.S. are blind or visually impaired, and for many, the kitchen becomes one of the most intimidating and inaccessible places in their home. In this powerful episode, Debra Erickson, founder of The Blind Kitchen, shares her remarkable journey of losing her vision, enrolling in culinary school, and building a purpose-driven brand that empowers others to cook with confidence. From adaptive kitchen tools to the emotional impact of regaining independence, Debra’s story is one of resilience, innovation, and heart. We discuss the power of accessible marketing, the mindset shifts required to lead with purpose, and why thoughtful design isn’t just inclusive, it’s also strategic. If you’ve ever felt like the odds were stacked against you, this episode will reignite your courage and remind you that your story has power.
Three Key Marketing Topics Discussed:
- Accessible Design is Good Marketing: Debra emphasizes that accessibility isn't just a moral responsibility; it’s a smart business move. She shares how making simple changes like adding image descriptions can help businesses connect with more customers and build brand trust with underserved audiences.
- Building a Brand Around Purpose and Identity: The Blind Kitchen is rooted in Debra’s lived experience, creating an authentic brand that resonates deeply with her community. She explains how clarity of purpose helped her build emotional connection, credibility, and a loyal customer base.
- Marketing by Listening and Testing: Instead of relying solely on outside experts, Debra now listens to her gut and watches the data. Through trial, error, and a willingness to pivot, she’s learned how to refine her strategy and invest only in what actually moves the needle.
Follow Debra:
Debra Erickson | LinkedIn
The Blind Kitchen | Facebook
The Blind Kitchen | Instagram
The Blind Kitchen | Website
P.S. Take the first step (will only take you 3 minutes) to awaken your brand magic with our personalized Brand Clarity Quiz
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Beverly (00:00):
Did you know that over 7 million adults in the US are
blind or visually impaired, andthat access to adaptive culinary
tools is one of the top barriersfor independent living for them.
I'm your host, Beverly Cornell,founder and fairy godmother of
brand Clarity at Wickedlybranded.
And with over 25 years ofexperience, I've helped hundreds
(00:20):
of purpose-driven entrepreneursawaken their brand magic and
boldly bring it to life so thatthey can magnify their impact in
the world.
And today.
Somebody is impacting theirworld.
It's amazing.
Today's guest is doing so muchto help people who are blind go
in the kitchen.
Debra Erickson is the founder ofThe Blind Kitchen, a
(00:41):
revolutionary business offeringadaptive culinary tools and
education for people with visionloss.
She's an educator, innovator,and culinary powerhouse on a
mission to help people cooksafely.
Confidently and independentlyregardless of their vision.
Debra, welcome to the show.
Debra (01:01):
Thank you Beverly.
Thank you for having me.
It's my pleasure.
Beverly (01:05):
I'm so excited to have this conversation first.
I love to cook, so we are gonnahave a fun conversation.
There's no question.
So talk about your journey, likehow did you get here?
What was that spark thathappened that said, the blind
kitchen needs to exist.
Debra (01:17):
There absolutely was a slow ember, not exactly a spark,
okay.
But once the spark hit then Icould not do it anymore.
So I've not always been blind.
I've retinitis pigmentosa, eventhough it started at 17, I lost
the majority of my vision in myearly.
Fifties.
And so I had taught adults and Iknew I wanted to teach, so I
(01:38):
went to the Oregon Commissionfor the Blind and got my skills,
my cane skills, my brailleskills, my adaptive devices, how
do you get around in the worldwithout being able to see.
Wonderful staff there that wereable to help me with that.
And I was taking a class calledmeal Prep, which is also
important for any adult to beable to care for themselves and
live independently.
(01:59):
So I was taking this class and alight bulb went on in my head
and I thought I would like toteach this.
I knew I wanted to teach adults.
I'd done that before and Ithought I could teach this, and
then the light bulb went offbecause I really didn't know how
to cook.
I raised two boys and.
The youngest is six foot fivenow, so I did something right,
but it was mostly reading thebacks of cans and boxes.
(02:21):
That's how I operated.
I'm one of 12 children and sevengirls, so we didn't get a lot of
mom one-on-one time in front ofthe stove.
So I just really didn't reallyknow how to cook and was not a
particularly good one.
But I was enjoying my time inthe kitchen with my instructor
so then I thought.
How do you learn how to cook atthis age?
(02:42):
And I'm very skills-based aswell.
And eventually after mulling itover for a couple of weeks it
became like I need to go tocooking school to learn how to
cook.
And so people thought I wasnuts, how are you gonna do this?
And I didn't have a clue how Iwas gonna do it, but, I do a lot
of other things.
How do I use my phone without.
Being able to see it, how do I,take a bus, how do I walk, to
(03:04):
the parking lot?
It can be done, but I just do itdifferently than most people.
So in culinary school proved tobe the same thing.
I was the only blind student andI got through it.
And I graduated in June of 2019,so March of 2020 came and went.
I was loving teaching adults.
Oregonians that were legallyblind how to cook, and then
(03:25):
COVID hit.
Everybody was confused what wassafe to be in a room with
someone not to be in a room.
Teaching cooking remotely didn'tseem particularly safe.
If I'm not with you hand onhand, how can I keep you safe?
So I basically was paused forabout a year and a half.
That is how the Blind kitchencame to be.
It's like I started to pull allthe information I had done.
(03:45):
'cause culinary school is verydemanding and very challenging.
I didn't have time to come homeafter Eggs week and organize
everything and put it alltogether.
I just whipped onto Soup andSauces week, after that.
So it was a gift for me to beable to organize it all.
And that's how the Blind Kitchencame to be.
Beverly (04:03):
First of all, you're a badass.
Debra (04:04):
Thank you.
Beverly (04:04):
I feel like, you had your vision, didn't have your
vision.
You're like, not only don'twanna learn how to cook at 50
something.
And then you're like, okay, no,I wanna go to culinary school
and then, you know what?
I wanna teach others in thisreally cool way of evolution for
you?
I'm sure you were scared andthere was obstacles and all the
things like talk about how didyou overcome some of that?
(04:26):
As a person who just wants tostart a business, which is
already hard, but as a personwho has now this added layer of
complexity of not being able tosee.
Debra (04:36):
Yeah.
I'm telling you, culinary schoolwas easier than running a
business.
Yeah.
With running a business.
I would say the biggestchallenge are.
Computers, the internet, not mybeing able to use a computer.
I'm not great at it.
There's a lot of people withvision loss that are a lot
faster and more savvy than I am,but I can get around and there
are so many websites and formsthat are inaccessible to me.
(04:59):
And that to me that'sfrustrating because I wanna be
able to do, you may get on thewebsite and I use just a
keyboard to get around.
I don't use a screen, I don'tuse a mouse.
My computer talks to me, and Iuse keyboard commands like,
control C is copy, control V ispaste.
I use thousands of those, andthose are the same two I use to
(05:20):
cut and paste as well.
But sometimes I'll get on andit'll say button.
Button.
I don't know if I'm addingsomething to my cart, taking it
out, logging out.
I have no information and Ireally pride myself on my
independence.
I'd love to have an assistant,but that costs money.
But I don't want people doingthings for me if there is a way
to do it myself.
And it's very frustrating.
(05:41):
There's nothing I can do at thatpoint, except that there are.
Services.
There's a service called I Ran.
It's a visual interpretationservice.
And what they do is for a smallfee and they actually have a
human being can remote into myphone and look out my camera in
real time if I'm at the airportor something like that.
I also have the meta raybanglasses so that they can
(06:02):
actually look through myglasses.
So now I can be hands free.
It's paired with my phone.
But they can actually remoteinto my computer with my
permission and help me fill outthose forms.
'cause they can see what's onthe screen, they're seeing what
I'm not seeing, but they canhelp me overcome those hurdles.
I'm lucky to live in an erawhere that technology exists
that would've been unheard of 20years ago.
(06:25):
And so I really try to beresourceful and access
resources, but please take amoment.
There are different businessesand things that can help you
make your website accessible forpeople with vision loss.
Beverly (06:36):
Yeah, one of the things that's just really good for SEO
in general is to do alt tagdesigner images.
Like just describe the images sothe person who comes to your
website can hear what is on thewebsite.
There's very little things youcan do to at least make it.
In general, accessible forpeople who can't see because
they're listening to yourcomputer describe what's on the
page, right?
So I think that's reallypowerful for business owners to
(06:58):
understand, to make somethingaccessible Also, is.
Part of your marketing, which isgreat.
Debra (07:03):
Agreed.
I'm definitely going to go andgive my money to the person
who's doing their best to maketheir website as accessible to
me, a blind consumer.
They're gonna get my money everytime.
Beverly (07:14):
I love that.
Yeah.
If you're like considering me inthe process, then yeah, I am
gonna consider you as an optionfor sure.
Debra (07:20):
Exactly.
Beverly (07:21):
If you're isolating me, why would I give you the time of
day?
It's like closing the door inyour face.
That's not okay.
do you have a story of how yourbusiness, the Blind Kitchen, has
really helped somebody overcomesome really deep challenges and
help them find joy in thekitchen?
Debra (07:37):
Yeah.
So I would have to say theemails that really hit me
closest in the heart are emailsfrom, and I'm not gonna be
ageist or sexist, but I'm gonnasay it anyway.
In my business, in myexperience, it's generally older
women who used to be.
The cooks for their family.
They did Hanukkah, they didbirthdays, they did
(07:59):
Thanksgiving, and then becauseof age related macular
degeneration.
Yeah.
Glaucoma.
Diabetic retinopathy.
Now they don't know how to getback in the kitchen or didn't
know how it didn't seempossible.
How can you possibly go into akitchen where there's hot
surfaces hot.
Food, sharp knives.
Mom, you'll cut yourself.
We'll take care of it.
Yeah.
Mom, you've toss a salad andit's not cut up the stuff for
(08:20):
your salad.
You just get to toss it.
so they lose a huge part oftheir identity, something that
brought them.
And you said you love to cookand I am guessing, I don't know
this to be true, but it's partof your love language.
That's how you expressed yourlove to people.
It totally is.
What if you couldn't do itanymore or thought?
You couldn't do it anymore.
And certainly there are men, wehave a grilling and barbecue
(08:40):
collection because in my world,I'm from Indiana, all those kids
and stuff like that, the womendid the inside work, the men did
the outside, work, and thatincluded grilling.
So there are a lot of people inthis world, they'll say, oh,
grandpa's eyes aren't as good asthey used to be.
That don't identify as blind orvisually impaired.
And that's fine.
I'm not here to.
Put a label on it if you don'twant it.
(09:01):
But if you are having problemsseeing, there are tools out
there, and I'll give you anexample.
One, it's a talking thermometer,so if you're outdoors, it's
nighttime, you're grilling.
Chicken, it needs to be cookedto 1 65.
And if you're having a hard timeseeing that, Thermometer and you
gotta get your eyes close to it.
And if you could get thatinformation through your ears
from an arm's length away, whynot do that?
(09:23):
It's just not that expensive andit's so much more.
Hygienic and safe for everybodyinvolved?
Beverly (09:29):
I'm a smoker, not like a smoker of cigarettes, but I
smoke my meats and I have one ofthose digital thermometers that
it just bings me when it's on myphone.
There's some fancy ones outthere, which is amazing, which
makes it so much easier'cause.
You gotta do it low and slowwhen you're doing the smoking.
And I don't have the patience tosit there the whole time.
I'm gonna go do the other thingsand come back and check on it if
I need to.
It's so fascinating to me.
(09:50):
I talked about this a little bitwith one of my other clients.
She's a deaf interpreter.
And I had a boyfriend who inhigh school who his parents were
deaf, but he was not.
And when I went to their houseone day, like when you ring the
doorbell, lights go off in theirhouse and like all these things
happen because they can't hear.
So they use their eyes as theirprimary.
Sure.
And it sounds like it's almostreverse for you.
You're using your ears as yourprimary, so Exactly.
(10:12):
The sounds of things can be yourtriggers.
Debra (10:14):
And when I found there's not answers for everything out
there, I can't devein a shrimp,there's no way.
It just doesn't happen.
I destroy it.
But I can buy shrimp That'salready deveined, yes.
There's a way generally, and nowespecially with these visual
interpretation services, I can'tspeak to deafness or being a
wheelchair user or the differentchallenges, but I can speak to
(10:36):
vision loss and there's usuallya way to make things happen, but
we just have to do itdifferently.
Exactly what you weredescribing.
Beverly (10:43):
It's interesting because for me, I have a very
minor, situation with my lefteye, I have keratoconus, which
is the filling of the cornea.
So my left eye is essentiallythe worst kind of astigmatism
you can have.
Like I just see like generalshapes.
and color, but I don't seedetail in any way, shape, or
form in my left eye.
So as this has deteriorated overtime, they say I can have a
(11:04):
cornea transplant, they can saythere's other options when it
completely fails and things likethat.
But it's been stabilized for awhile, but it really, for a
couple years was.
Failing very quickly.
And I was like, what if I losemy sight?
'cause I design and write for aliving.
What am I gonna do if I can'tsee?
And I never thought about thekitchen, but you're right, the
matriarchs of the family are thecooks, it is our love language.
(11:24):
And it's community, it's family.
It's so much,
Debra (11:29):
oh, it's history, it's sharing stories, it's culture,
it's everything.
Beverly (11:34):
And I feel like.
I would really be devastated tonot be in the kitchen.
My mom always says, I have areally great blog post about
this for my listeners, if you goto my blog, it's the secret
ingredient is love and I makethings with love.
Like I pick it from my gardenand I pull it in and I cut it up
and it's you're serving up aplate of love in this particular
thing so I love this.
I love this so much Debra I haveaccommodations now for my
(11:57):
vision.
Like I have a really bigmonitor.
So I can see better on myiPhone.
There's accessibility where youcan make the font really large
and the color contrast more andthings like that.
So I'm already using some of theaccessibility things just for my
left eye issue.
And I've often wondered whatwill happen if it completely
fails, and what if it happens tothe left eye or the right eye?
(12:18):
Or what if I get some otherthing that happens to my right
eye?
Your vision is incrediblyimportant.
The world is made for people whosee, not necessarily people who
don't see.
Debra (12:28):
A thousand percent.
And they say that your brainuses about 70% if it's available
bandwidth and it processesthrough vision.
So when you lose your vision oryour brain.
Isn't relying on it as muchbecause you don't have that
access, then that makes me relyon my other senses more.
(12:48):
My hearing didn't get better.
Yes, I'm done doing any betteron hearing tests.
My taste didn't get any better.
I'm not doing any better ontaste tests, but I rely on it a
lot more.
Yeah and you can definitely getthrough it.
There's no doubt about it, butit is a very.
Visual world out there.
Vision is everything, even theway we talk.
I'll see you later.
Beverly (13:07):
Yeah.
Debra (13:08):
Just eyeball this for a minute.
Oh.
I hear that in recipes all thetime.
Yeah.
Even our language.
I can only speak for myself, butI believe this is true of most
people with vision loss, you cansay, hi, it's nice to see you
again, and I'm a hundred percentfine with it.
That is the way we speak in oursociety.
But some people trip all overthemselves, and I appreciate
that they're sensitive and say,oh man I wish I hadn't said
(13:29):
that.
I'm so sorry.
you don't need to apologize.
We say it too.
Nice to see you, Beverly.
Beverly (13:33):
Don't even think about those kinds of things.
What is, one thing that you wishpeople would know about what
it's like to be blind that theymaybe aren't as aware of?
We talked a little bit aboutsocial media, how do you do your
marketing, but, just in general,what do you wish there were a
little bit more, aware of.
Debra (13:48):
I think there's a lot of fear around even approaching the
subject of blindness.
That I'm gonna sue you or you'regonna hurt my feelings somehow
if you recognize that I carry along white cane, there's
probably a clue here.
But people will go at alldifferent kinds of angles to
avoid the subject.
And I think you can't avoid theelephant in the room.
It is true.
I appreciate when people come upand have a conversation with me.
(14:10):
'cause sometimes you can be theonly person in a crowd.
I don't know.
I'm not gonna interrupt yourconversation.
But I'd love to be invited in.
And I think that's a thing thatif you can just say, Hey, you
over there.
With the white cane..
Would you like to join us and,oh yeah.
I was listening to you and Ihave an idea on that too.
But the one thing I would say isthat if I am interacting with
(14:31):
you, let's say I go to a partyand you come up to me and you
say, do you mind if I ask youabout your blindness, which is
perfectly acceptable becausethen I can give you permission
or I can say, no, I prefer notto.
I think the answer that I likethe best, that feels most
comfortable for me is, yes, wecan talk about my vision loss,
but it's not the only thing Iwanna talk about.
Oh, I love, let's talk aboutother things too.
(14:51):
That's so good.
Someone else told me that and Ithought that's perfect that,
yeah.
Beverly (14:55):
So let's talk about other challenges and how you've
overcome them.
You mentioned in yourapplication, finding reliable
help has been your biggestchallenge, which you are not
alone.
That is a thing.
So how have you navigated thatchallenge in your business
specifically?
Debra (15:09):
It's all about putting feelers out there.
Knowing people who know people.
I haven't done the automatedthing that feels like this
business is a little too nichefor that.
People would freak out if theyfound out later that the owner
was blind.
I think there needs to beawareness of that.
So that's how I've been able todo it.
But people just have lives.
They have children that, ohyeah, I can do that.
(15:31):
I can come in three days a weekand help you do your packaging
and shipping.
Because the way my businessworks, it's the blind kitchen
and people purchase the thingsonline, or they get the free
tips and stuff in the blogs,which is fine too, but if they
decide there's a tool they'dlike to try or that might help
them solve a problem in theirkitchen, they purchase it and
now it has to be packaged andshipped and mailed to them.
(15:52):
And my talents are, I'm ateacher and I'm a cook, and that
is where my talents are best.
Not wrapping packages, althoughI have to do it to have this
business.
We have to do things when we owna business that we really wish
we could pay someone else to,but.
Sometimes that can work andsometimes not.
And that has been difficult tofind someone consistent because
it's not like I can tell youBeverly, go pick the aerator off
(16:15):
the top shelf.
Yeah.
What's the aerator?
Because I've named all of thesetools to reflect their function.
Okay.
So it, it might be calledsomething, somewhere else, but
i've been very vision focusedwith the blind kitchen that,
everything's as blind friendlyas possible.
They have, the names reflecttheir purpose.
Beverly (16:33):
That's good marketing too, by the way.
You said that going to culinaryschool was way easier than being
an entrepreneur.
So what is one belief or mindsetshift do you think you've made
in order to keep going as abusiness owner?
Debra (16:46):
I've had to learn to rely on people and ask more than I
want to, than I'm comfortablewith.
Yeah, it's always been my way totry and just go forward and
figure it out for myself.
I can make this happen orwhatever.
And that's not very efficientwhen you're running a business.
Yeah.
And you don't already have theanswer.
So I think I've had to learn tobe more dependent on other
people to help me do.
(17:06):
Quick problem solving.
And that's not my comfort zone,but people don't resist.
They're happy to help as a role.
Beverly (17:13):
Over the years, I have been better at leading and
delegating and letting go andall the things which you have to
do to grow, like just period,you can't do it all.
But it's hard,
Debra (17:22):
you know, Beverly, it's funny you say that because, Once
I was asked what did I learngrowing up?
And, we always have adventuresas children growing up, being
adults, getting inrelationships.
And one thing that I was veryclear on, I don't know the
moment it happened, but I waspretty young and I had seen
women.
Being forced to stay inrelationships because they were
(17:43):
dependent financially orwhatever, and so into
relationships that weren't goodfor themselves.
And it still happens around me.
So I made the decision, I'malways gonna be independent.
I'm gonna be financiallyindependent.
I don't know what your paradigmis of the universe, but the
universe said to me, okay, youwanna be independent?
Let's see.
You do it without vision Therewas a lesson in this for me, I
(18:06):
was doing it to an unhealthydegree where I was shutting
people out or not listening.
When I should have been They sayevery problem comes with a gift
in its hands.
Sure.
And I think that was its giftfor me was, okay, slow down.
You don't have to do everything.
Beverly (18:20):
So I went into being an entrepreneur, kicking and
screaming like I was notintentional about my
entrepreneurship.
I married an active duty armysoldier and I had to move every
three years.
At the time, it was 2011, 2012,and there wasn't really remote
jobs.
And there I wasn't able to finda VP of marketing job, just
anywhere.
You have to know people andnetwork and so I start, I really
created a job for myself.
(18:41):
I could go anywhere.
I could be in Italy and stillhelp people, is really what the
goal was.
And maybe to help a couple othermilitary spouses have a job too.
'cause it's really hard.
To follow your soldier and stillkeep a career.
But here's the vulnerable partof it is I was an only child and
I was always so doing myself andhaving control of my life and I
(19:04):
knew it was gonna happen next.
And I was 35 when I got married,so I was significantly older
than the average person andcertainly not.
Codependent with anyone and hadmy own idea of what things were
like, and I had, my own house,my own car, my own life.
I hear you on this, like becareful of what you think you
have or what you want to have.
(19:25):
And boy, the universe, God,whatever, will.
Teach you some other lessons ofwhat that looks like.
That's a great story for sure.
About like the gift and thecurse at the same time
Debra (19:35):
exactly.
Beverly (19:36):
So reflecting on your journey, it's been since it
sounds like just before COVID,when all this kind of started,
right?
What's one thing about how yourun your business now that's
very different from when youstarted?
Debra (19:47):
I am quicker to recognize when something isn't working.
cause you get people out therethat give you advice and they're
the experts in this.
I'm not an expert in marketing.
I'm not an expert on websitedesign.
I'm not an expert on videographyor graphic design.
And I think when I firststarted, I even though flags
would go up do I really need tospend that much money?
(20:10):
Do I really need to spend thatmuch time?
Now I'm more quick to say.
We try it.
I'm willing to do it once aquarter instead of once a month
now.
And then, and let's see if thenumbers change.
So I feel like I'm taking morecontrol, things where I felt
like I had absolutely noknowledge.
I know a little bit aboutmarketing because I've engaged
in it.
And that's been a gift because Ifind that I'm pretty good at it,
Beverly (20:31):
trusting your instinct, your gut and then measuring,
that's huge.
Just measuring the results.
Don't just throw it at the walland say, okay, like actually
measure, tweak, adjust.
I always joke that we're madscientists over here like test
B, like we're always trying totest to make sure it's working
and then tweaking it till it'sjust the best it can be.
(20:52):
Our clients don't have a lot ofmoney to spend on marketing.
Like there are small businessentrepreneurs who are usually by
themselves, solopreneurs tryingto do it all.
And so every dollar matters.
So if it's not working, yougotta stop that.
You can't just be throwing goodmoney after bad, like that's not
okay.
So that's good.
I love that.
It's incredible insight.
for our listeners who are maybelike feeling a little bit stuck
(21:12):
about that, like about marketingand what that looks like for
you, like you're not alone.
So many people have.
Tried things didn't work, had tomeasure all the things.
And if you're looking for morestrategic help or more clarity
or confidence and momentum, Ireally want to invite you to set
up a free clarity call with me.
You just have to go to wickedlyready.com/call and we'll uncover
what's working, what's gettingin the way, and how to move
(21:33):
forward.
Maybe just that one next stepthat could help you push forward
to that next vision you have foryourself.
You just don't have to do italone.
So I just wanna invite youpersonally to gimme a call and
let's chat.
Hey there, you've just finishedpart one of the Sparking Night,
your marketing episode.
How are you feeling?
Excited, inspired, but we'rejust getting started.
Next Tuesday we're dropping parttwo, and you won't wanna miss
it.
(21:53):
Be sure to subscribe to ournewsletter, so you'll be the
first to know when it goes live.
Until then, take a breather, letthose ideas simmer, and we'll
see you next week.
Did you know that over 7 million adults in the US are
blind or visually impaired, andthat access to adaptive culinary
tools is one of the top barriersfor independent living for them.
I'm your host, Beverly Cornell,founder and fairy godmother of
brand Clarity at Wickedlybranded.
And with over 25 years ofexperience, I've helped hundreds
(00:20):
of purpose-driven entrepreneursawaken their brand magic and
boldly bring it to life so thatthey can magnify their impact in
the world.
And today.
Somebody is impacting theirworld.
It's amazing.
Today's guest is doing so muchto help people who are blind go
in the kitchen.
Debra Erickson is the founder ofThe Blind Kitchen, a
(00:41):
revolutionary business offeringadaptive culinary tools and
education for people with visionloss.
She's an educator, innovator,and culinary powerhouse on a
mission to help people cooksafely.
Confidently and independentlyregardless of their vision.
Debra, welcome to the show.
Debra (01:01):
Thank you Beverly.
Thank you for having me.
It's my pleasure.
Beverly (01:05):
I'm so excited to have this conversation first.
I love to cook, so we are gonnahave a fun conversation.
There's no question.
So talk about your journey, likehow did you get here?
What was that spark thathappened that said, the blind
kitchen needs to exist.
Debra (01:17):
There absolutely was a slow ember, not exactly a spark,
okay.
But once the spark hit then Icould not do it anymore.
So I've not always been blind.
I've retinitis pigmentosa, eventhough it started at 17, I lost
the majority of my vision in myearly.
Fifties.
And so I had taught adults and Iknew I wanted to teach, so I
(01:38):
went to the Oregon Commissionfor the Blind and got my skills,
my cane skills, my brailleskills, my adaptive devices, how
do you get around in the worldwithout being able to see.
Wonderful staff there that wereable to help me with that.
And I was taking a class calledmeal Prep, which is also
important for any adult to beable to care for themselves and
live independently.
(01:59):
So I was taking this class and alight bulb went on in my head
and I thought I would like toteach this.
I knew I wanted to teach adults.
I'd done that before and Ithought I could teach this, and
then the light bulb went offbecause I really didn't know how
to cook.
I raised two boys and.
The youngest is six foot fivenow, so I did something right,
but it was mostly reading thebacks of cans and boxes.
(02:21):
That's how I operated.
I'm one of 12 children and sevengirls, so we didn't get a lot of
mom one-on-one time in front ofthe stove.
So I just really didn't reallyknow how to cook and was not a
particularly good one.
But I was enjoying my time inthe kitchen with my instructor
so then I thought.
How do you learn how to cook atthis age?
(02:42):
And I'm very skills-based aswell.
And eventually after mulling itover for a couple of weeks it
became like I need to go tocooking school to learn how to
cook.
And so people thought I wasnuts, how are you gonna do this?
And I didn't have a clue how Iwas gonna do it, but, I do a lot
of other things.
How do I use my phone without.
Being able to see it, how do I,take a bus, how do I walk, to
(03:04):
the parking lot?
It can be done, but I just do itdifferently than most people.
So in culinary school proved tobe the same thing.
I was the only blind student andI got through it.
And I graduated in June of 2019,so March of 2020 came and went.
I was loving teaching adults.
Oregonians that were legallyblind how to cook, and then
(03:25):
COVID hit.
Everybody was confused what wassafe to be in a room with
someone not to be in a room.
Teaching cooking remotely didn'tseem particularly safe.
If I'm not with you hand onhand, how can I keep you safe?
So I basically was paused forabout a year and a half.
That is how the Blind kitchencame to be.
It's like I started to pull allthe information I had done.
(03:45):
'cause culinary school is verydemanding and very challenging.
I didn't have time to come homeafter Eggs week and organize
everything and put it alltogether.
I just whipped onto Soup andSauces week, after that.
So it was a gift for me to beable to organize it all.
And that's how the Blind Kitchencame to be.
Beverly (04:03):
First of all, you're a badass.
Debra (04:04):
Thank you.
Beverly (04:04):
I feel like, you had your vision, didn't have your
vision.
You're like, not only don'twanna learn how to cook at 50
something.
And then you're like, okay, no,I wanna go to culinary school
and then, you know what?
I wanna teach others in thisreally cool way of evolution for
you?
I'm sure you were scared andthere was obstacles and all the
things like talk about how didyou overcome some of that?
(04:26):
As a person who just wants tostart a business, which is
already hard, but as a personwho has now this added layer of
complexity of not being able tosee.
Debra (04:36):
Yeah.
I'm telling you, culinary schoolwas easier than running a
business.
Yeah.
With running a business.
I would say the biggestchallenge are.
Computers, the internet, not mybeing able to use a computer.
I'm not great at it.
There's a lot of people withvision loss that are a lot
faster and more savvy than I am,but I can get around and there
are so many websites and formsthat are inaccessible to me.
(04:59):
And that to me that'sfrustrating because I wanna be
able to do, you may get on thewebsite and I use just a
keyboard to get around.
I don't use a screen, I don'tuse a mouse.
My computer talks to me, and Iuse keyboard commands like,
control C is copy, control V ispaste.
I use thousands of those, andthose are the same two I use to
(05:20):
cut and paste as well.
But sometimes I'll get on andit'll say button.
Button.
I don't know if I'm addingsomething to my cart, taking it
out, logging out.
I have no information and Ireally pride myself on my
independence.
I'd love to have an assistant,but that costs money.
But I don't want people doingthings for me if there is a way
to do it myself.
And it's very frustrating.
(05:41):
There's nothing I can do at thatpoint, except that there are.
Services.
There's a service called I Ran.
It's a visual interpretationservice.
And what they do is for a smallfee and they actually have a
human being can remote into myphone and look out my camera in
real time if I'm at the airportor something like that.
I also have the meta raybanglasses so that they can
(06:02):
actually look through myglasses.
So now I can be hands free.
It's paired with my phone.
But they can actually remoteinto my computer with my
permission and help me fill outthose forms.
'cause they can see what's onthe screen, they're seeing what
I'm not seeing, but they canhelp me overcome those hurdles.
I'm lucky to live in an erawhere that technology exists
that would've been unheard of 20years ago.
(06:25):
And so I really try to beresourceful and access
resources, but please take amoment.
There are different businessesand things that can help you
make your website accessible forpeople with vision loss.
Beverly (06:36):
Yeah, one of the things that's just really good for SEO
in general is to do alt tagdesigner images.
Like just describe the images sothe person who comes to your
website can hear what is on thewebsite.
There's very little things youcan do to at least make it.
In general, accessible forpeople who can't see because
they're listening to yourcomputer describe what's on the
page, right?
So I think that's reallypowerful for business owners to
(06:58):
understand, to make somethingaccessible Also, is.
Part of your marketing, which isgreat.
Debra (07:03):
Agreed.
I'm definitely going to go andgive my money to the person
who's doing their best to maketheir website as accessible to
me, a blind consumer.
They're gonna get my money everytime.
Beverly (07:14):
I love that.
Yeah.
If you're like considering me inthe process, then yeah, I am
gonna consider you as an optionfor sure.
Debra (07:20):
Exactly.
Beverly (07:21):
If you're isolating me, why would I give you the time of
day?
It's like closing the door inyour face.
That's not okay.
do you have a story of how yourbusiness, the Blind Kitchen, has
really helped somebody overcomesome really deep challenges and
help them find joy in thekitchen?
Debra (07:37):
Yeah.
So I would have to say theemails that really hit me
closest in the heart are emailsfrom, and I'm not gonna be
ageist or sexist, but I'm gonnasay it anyway.
In my business, in myexperience, it's generally older
women who used to be.
The cooks for their family.
They did Hanukkah, they didbirthdays, they did
(07:59):
Thanksgiving, and then becauseof age related macular
degeneration.
Yeah.
Glaucoma.
Diabetic retinopathy.
Now they don't know how to getback in the kitchen or didn't
know how it didn't seempossible.
How can you possibly go into akitchen where there's hot
surfaces hot.
Food, sharp knives.
Mom, you'll cut yourself.
We'll take care of it.
Yeah.
Mom, you've toss a salad andit's not cut up the stuff for
(08:20):
your salad.
You just get to toss it.
so they lose a huge part oftheir identity, something that
brought them.
And you said you love to cookand I am guessing, I don't know
this to be true, but it's partof your love language.
That's how you expressed yourlove to people.
It totally is.
What if you couldn't do itanymore or thought?
You couldn't do it anymore.
And certainly there are men, wehave a grilling and barbecue
(08:40):
collection because in my world,I'm from Indiana, all those kids
and stuff like that, the womendid the inside work, the men did
the outside, work, and thatincluded grilling.
So there are a lot of people inthis world, they'll say, oh,
grandpa's eyes aren't as good asthey used to be.
That don't identify as blind orvisually impaired.
And that's fine.
I'm not here to.
Put a label on it if you don'twant it.
(09:01):
But if you are having problemsseeing, there are tools out
there, and I'll give you anexample.
One, it's a talking thermometer,so if you're outdoors, it's
nighttime, you're grilling.
Chicken, it needs to be cookedto 1 65.
And if you're having a hard timeseeing that, Thermometer and you
gotta get your eyes close to it.
And if you could get thatinformation through your ears
from an arm's length away, whynot do that?
(09:23):
It's just not that expensive andit's so much more.
Hygienic and safe for everybodyinvolved?
Beverly (09:29):
I'm a smoker, not like a smoker of cigarettes, but I
smoke my meats and I have one ofthose digital thermometers that
it just bings me when it's on myphone.
There's some fancy ones outthere, which is amazing, which
makes it so much easier'cause.
You gotta do it low and slowwhen you're doing the smoking.
And I don't have the patience tosit there the whole time.
I'm gonna go do the other thingsand come back and check on it if
I need to.
It's so fascinating to me.
(09:50):
I talked about this a little bitwith one of my other clients.
She's a deaf interpreter.
And I had a boyfriend who inhigh school who his parents were
deaf, but he was not.
And when I went to their houseone day, like when you ring the
doorbell, lights go off in theirhouse and like all these things
happen because they can't hear.
So they use their eyes as theirprimary.
Sure.
And it sounds like it's almostreverse for you.
You're using your ears as yourprimary, so Exactly.
(10:12):
The sounds of things can be yourtriggers.
Debra (10:14):
And when I found there's not answers for everything out
there, I can't devein a shrimp,there's no way.
It just doesn't happen.
I destroy it.
But I can buy shrimp That'salready deveined, yes.
There's a way generally, and nowespecially with these visual
interpretation services, I can'tspeak to deafness or being a
wheelchair user or the differentchallenges, but I can speak to
(10:36):
vision loss and there's usuallya way to make things happen, but
we just have to do itdifferently.
Exactly what you weredescribing.
Beverly (10:43):
It's interesting because for me, I have a very
minor, situation with my lefteye, I have keratoconus, which
is the filling of the cornea.
So my left eye is essentiallythe worst kind of astigmatism
you can have.
Like I just see like generalshapes.
and color, but I don't seedetail in any way, shape, or
form in my left eye.
So as this has deteriorated overtime, they say I can have a
(11:04):
cornea transplant, they can saythere's other options when it
completely fails and things likethat.
But it's been stabilized for awhile, but it really, for a
couple years was.
Failing very quickly.
And I was like, what if I losemy sight?
'cause I design and write for aliving.
What am I gonna do if I can'tsee?
And I never thought about thekitchen, but you're right, the
matriarchs of the family are thecooks, it is our love language.
(11:24):
And it's community, it's family.
It's so much,
Debra (11:29):
oh, it's history, it's sharing stories, it's culture,
it's everything.
Beverly (11:34):
And I feel like.
I would really be devastated tonot be in the kitchen.
My mom always says, I have areally great blog post about
this for my listeners, if you goto my blog, it's the secret
ingredient is love and I makethings with love.
Like I pick it from my gardenand I pull it in and I cut it up
and it's you're serving up aplate of love in this particular
thing so I love this.
I love this so much Debra I haveaccommodations now for my
(11:57):
vision.
Like I have a really bigmonitor.
So I can see better on myiPhone.
There's accessibility where youcan make the font really large
and the color contrast more andthings like that.
So I'm already using some of theaccessibility things just for my
left eye issue.
And I've often wondered whatwill happen if it completely
fails, and what if it happens tothe left eye or the right eye?
(12:18):
Or what if I get some otherthing that happens to my right
eye?
Your vision is incrediblyimportant.
The world is made for people whosee, not necessarily people who
don't see.
Debra (12:28):
A thousand percent.
And they say that your brainuses about 70% if it's available
bandwidth and it processesthrough vision.
So when you lose your vision oryour brain.
Isn't relying on it as muchbecause you don't have that
access, then that makes me relyon my other senses more.
(12:48):
My hearing didn't get better.
Yes, I'm done doing any betteron hearing tests.
My taste didn't get any better.
I'm not doing any better ontaste tests, but I rely on it a
lot more.
Yeah and you can definitely getthrough it.
There's no doubt about it, butit is a very.
Visual world out there.
Vision is everything, even theway we talk.
I'll see you later.
Beverly (13:07):
Yeah.
Debra (13:08):
Just eyeball this for a minute.
Oh.
I hear that in recipes all thetime.
Yeah.
Even our language.
I can only speak for myself, butI believe this is true of most
people with vision loss, you cansay, hi, it's nice to see you
again, and I'm a hundred percentfine with it.
That is the way we speak in oursociety.
But some people trip all overthemselves, and I appreciate
that they're sensitive and say,oh man I wish I hadn't said
(13:29):
that.
I'm so sorry.
you don't need to apologize.
We say it too.
Nice to see you, Beverly.
Beverly (13:33):
Don't even think about those kinds of things.
What is, one thing that you wishpeople would know about what
it's like to be blind that theymaybe aren't as aware of?
We talked a little bit aboutsocial media, how do you do your
marketing, but, just in general,what do you wish there were a
little bit more, aware of.
Debra (13:48):
I think there's a lot of fear around even approaching the
subject of blindness.
That I'm gonna sue you or you'regonna hurt my feelings somehow
if you recognize that I carry along white cane, there's
probably a clue here.
But people will go at alldifferent kinds of angles to
avoid the subject.
And I think you can't avoid theelephant in the room.
It is true.
I appreciate when people come upand have a conversation with me.
(14:10):
'cause sometimes you can be theonly person in a crowd.
I don't know.
I'm not gonna interrupt yourconversation.
But I'd love to be invited in.
And I think that's a thing thatif you can just say, Hey, you
over there.
With the white cane..
Would you like to join us and,oh yeah.
I was listening to you and Ihave an idea on that too.
But the one thing I would say isthat if I am interacting with
(14:31):
you, let's say I go to a partyand you come up to me and you
say, do you mind if I ask youabout your blindness, which is
perfectly acceptable becausethen I can give you permission
or I can say, no, I prefer notto.
I think the answer that I likethe best, that feels most
comfortable for me is, yes, wecan talk about my vision loss,
but it's not the only thing Iwanna talk about.
Oh, I love, let's talk aboutother things too.
(14:51):
That's so good.
Someone else told me that and Ithought that's perfect that,
yeah.
Beverly (14:55):
So let's talk about other challenges and how you've
overcome them.
You mentioned in yourapplication, finding reliable
help has been your biggestchallenge, which you are not
alone.
That is a thing.
So how have you navigated thatchallenge in your business
specifically?
Debra (15:09):
It's all about putting feelers out there.
Knowing people who know people.
I haven't done the automatedthing that feels like this
business is a little too nichefor that.
People would freak out if theyfound out later that the owner
was blind.
I think there needs to beawareness of that.
So that's how I've been able todo it.
But people just have lives.
They have children that, ohyeah, I can do that.
(15:31):
I can come in three days a weekand help you do your packaging
and shipping.
Because the way my businessworks, it's the blind kitchen
and people purchase the thingsonline, or they get the free
tips and stuff in the blogs,which is fine too, but if they
decide there's a tool they'dlike to try or that might help
them solve a problem in theirkitchen, they purchase it and
now it has to be packaged andshipped and mailed to them.
(15:52):
And my talents are, I'm ateacher and I'm a cook, and that
is where my talents are best.
Not wrapping packages, althoughI have to do it to have this
business.
We have to do things when we owna business that we really wish
we could pay someone else to,but.
Sometimes that can work andsometimes not.
And that has been difficult tofind someone consistent because
it's not like I can tell youBeverly, go pick the aerator off
(16:15):
the top shelf.
Yeah.
What's the aerator?
Because I've named all of thesetools to reflect their function.
Okay.
So it, it might be calledsomething, somewhere else, but
i've been very vision focusedwith the blind kitchen that,
everything's as blind friendlyas possible.
They have, the names reflecttheir purpose.
Beverly (16:33):
That's good marketing too, by the way.
You said that going to culinaryschool was way easier than being
an entrepreneur.
So what is one belief or mindsetshift do you think you've made
in order to keep going as abusiness owner?
Debra (16:46):
I've had to learn to rely on people and ask more than I
want to, than I'm comfortablewith.
Yeah, it's always been my way totry and just go forward and
figure it out for myself.
I can make this happen orwhatever.
And that's not very efficientwhen you're running a business.
Yeah.
And you don't already have theanswer.
So I think I've had to learn tobe more dependent on other
people to help me do.
(17:06):
Quick problem solving.
And that's not my comfort zone,but people don't resist.
They're happy to help as a role.
Beverly (17:13):
Over the years, I have been better at leading and
delegating and letting go andall the things which you have to
do to grow, like just period,you can't do it all.
But it's hard,
Debra (17:22):
you know, Beverly, it's funny you say that because, Once
I was asked what did I learngrowing up?
And, we always have adventuresas children growing up, being
adults, getting inrelationships.
And one thing that I was veryclear on, I don't know the
moment it happened, but I waspretty young and I had seen
women.
Being forced to stay inrelationships because they were
(17:43):
dependent financially orwhatever, and so into
relationships that weren't goodfor themselves.
And it still happens around me.
So I made the decision, I'malways gonna be independent.
I'm gonna be financiallyindependent.
I don't know what your paradigmis of the universe, but the
universe said to me, okay, youwanna be independent?
Let's see.
You do it without vision Therewas a lesson in this for me, I
(18:06):
was doing it to an unhealthydegree where I was shutting
people out or not listening.
When I should have been They sayevery problem comes with a gift
in its hands.
Sure.
And I think that was its giftfor me was, okay, slow down.
You don't have to do everything.
Beverly (18:20):
So I went into being an entrepreneur, kicking and
screaming like I was notintentional about my
entrepreneurship.
I married an active duty armysoldier and I had to move every
three years.
At the time, it was 2011, 2012,and there wasn't really remote
jobs.
And there I wasn't able to finda VP of marketing job, just
anywhere.
You have to know people andnetwork and so I start, I really
created a job for myself.
(18:41):
I could go anywhere.
I could be in Italy and stillhelp people, is really what the
goal was.
And maybe to help a couple othermilitary spouses have a job too.
'cause it's really hard.
To follow your soldier and stillkeep a career.
But here's the vulnerable partof it is I was an only child and
I was always so doing myself andhaving control of my life and I
(19:04):
knew it was gonna happen next.
And I was 35 when I got married,so I was significantly older
than the average person andcertainly not.
Codependent with anyone and hadmy own idea of what things were
like, and I had, my own house,my own car, my own life.
I hear you on this, like becareful of what you think you
have or what you want to have.
(19:25):
And boy, the universe, God,whatever, will.
Teach you some other lessons ofwhat that looks like.
That's a great story for sure.
About like the gift and thecurse at the same time
Debra (19:35):
exactly.
Beverly (19:36):
So reflecting on your journey, it's been since it
sounds like just before COVID,when all this kind of started,
right?
What's one thing about how yourun your business now that's
very different from when youstarted?
Debra (19:47):
I am quicker to recognize when something isn't working.
cause you get people out therethat give you advice and they're
the experts in this.
I'm not an expert in marketing.
I'm not an expert on websitedesign.
I'm not an expert on videographyor graphic design.
And I think when I firststarted, I even though flags
would go up do I really need tospend that much money?
(20:10):
Do I really need to spend thatmuch time?
Now I'm more quick to say.
We try it.
I'm willing to do it once aquarter instead of once a month
now.
And then, and let's see if thenumbers change.
So I feel like I'm taking morecontrol, things where I felt
like I had absolutely noknowledge.
I know a little bit aboutmarketing because I've engaged
in it.
And that's been a gift because Ifind that I'm pretty good at it,
Beverly (20:31):
trusting your instinct, your gut and then measuring,
that's huge.
Just measuring the results.
Don't just throw it at the walland say, okay, like actually
measure, tweak, adjust.
I always joke that we're madscientists over here like test
B, like we're always trying totest to make sure it's working
and then tweaking it till it'sjust the best it can be.
(20:52):
Our clients don't have a lot ofmoney to spend on marketing.
Like there are small businessentrepreneurs who are usually by
themselves, solopreneurs tryingto do it all.
And so every dollar matters.
So if it's not working, yougotta stop that.
You can't just be throwing goodmoney after bad, like that's not
okay.
So that's good.
I love that.
It's incredible insight.
for our listeners who are maybelike feeling a little bit stuck
(21:12):
about that, like about marketingand what that looks like for
you, like you're not alone.
So many people have.
Tried things didn't work, had tomeasure all the things.
And if you're looking for morestrategic help or more clarity
or confidence and momentum, Ireally want to invite you to set
up a free clarity call with me.
You just have to go to wickedlyready.com/call and we'll uncover
what's working, what's gettingin the way, and how to move
(21:33):
forward.
Maybe just that one next stepthat could help you push forward
to that next vision you have foryourself.
You just don't have to do italone.
So I just wanna invite youpersonally to gimme a call and
let's chat.
Hey there, you've just finishedpart one of the Sparking Night,
your marketing episode.
How are you feeling?
Excited, inspired, but we'rejust getting started.
Next Tuesday we're dropping parttwo, and you won't wanna miss
it.
(21:53):
Be sure to subscribe to ournewsletter, so you'll be the
first to know when it goes live.
Until then, take a breather, letthose ideas simmer, and we'll
see you next week.
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