September 9, 2025 • 26 mins
Welcome to Spark & Ignite Your Marketing, the podcast where real conversations meet real strategies. I'm your host, Beverly Cornell, founder and fairy godmother of brand clarity at Wickedly Branded. With over 25 years of experience, I’ve helped hundreds of entrepreneurs awaken their brand magic, attract the right people, and build businesses that light them up.
In this episode, we welcome Nathalie Doremieux, co-founder of The Membership Lab and Podcast LeadFlow. We explore her transition from Silicon Valley engineer to business strategist in the south of France. Nathalie candidly discusses her journey as an "accidental entrepreneur," how she created a recurring revenue business with a small team, and the importance of simplicity and aligned visibility. If you’re looking for more confidence and clarity without burnout, this episode is your invitation to build differently.
Three Key Marketing Topics Discussed:
- Building Confidence as an Accidental Entrepreneur: Nathalie shares her transition from software engineer to online business owner, and how stepping into visibility, especially in a second language, became a game-changer.
- From Complexity to Flow: Finding Your Zone of Genius: Learn how Nathalie helps clients get clear on what lights them up (and drains them), and how strategic delegation unlocks creative momentum. Check out our spells for Simplifying your Marketing!
- Why Recurring Revenue Creates Long-Term Business Freedom: We explore how predictable income supports not just stability, but also scale, peace of mind, and future exit opportunities. Discover how to make your business feel aligned!
Follow Nathalie:
Nathalie Doremieux | LinkedIn
Nathalie Doremieux | Facebook
Podcast LeadFlow | Website
The Membership Lab | Website
P.S. Take the first step (will only take you 3 minutes) to awaken your brand magic with our personalized Brand Clarity Quiz
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Beverly (00:00):
Did you know that behind some of the most seamless
online memberships is a womanwho left Silicon Valley, moved
to the south of France and builta business on her own terms
without a big team.
I'm your host, Beverly Cornell,founder and fairy godmother of
brand Clarity.
At Wickedly Branded, we havehelped hundreds of overwhelmed
overachieving consultants,creatives, and coaches awaken
(00:20):
their brand magic and boldlybring their marketing to life so
that they feel more confidentand attract their absolute
favorite and most profitableclients.
In today's episode, I'm joinedby Natali Doremieux co-founder
of the Membership Lab andPodcast Leadflow.
She's a powerhouse behind thescenes of high converting
membership and course platforms.
(00:40):
We're gonna dive into how hermindset, how simplicity and
strategic use of AI can unlockpowerful momentum without, oh my
gosh, the burnout.
Please more of this.
If you ever wanted your businessto feel more flow and less
force, this conversation is foryou.
Nathalie, welcome.
Nathalie (01:00):
Thank you so much for having me, Beverly.
Beverly (01:03):
I'm so excited.
So I wanna go back to thebeginning of your
entrepreneurial journey.
What led you to start yourbusiness and what did those
early days look like for you,and how did it grow from there?
Nathalie (01:14):
So actually the business really started in 2005.
I ran a family business with myhusband.
We met at school and afterschool, we decided to move to
the US to live the Americandream.
So we went there for the summerand we were like, we find a job,
we'll stay.
If we don't, we come back.
And we were both softwareengineers in the Silicon Valley,
(01:35):
so that worked out perfectly.
It was in 95.
At this time, I found a jobquite easily in Berkeley.
We got married in Reno, thelittle Las Vegas, so he could
stay, he got a job.
So we stayed there for 10 years.
We got three kids there.
And 10 years later, in 2005, wedecided to sell everything and
move back to France.
(01:55):
The goal was to stay two years.
But circumstances, life andbusiness and stuff, we are still
here.
So basically what happened isthat we found it as an
opportunity to start our ownbusiness because my husband has
always wanted to be his ownboss.
And I just became anentrepreneur for love, like just
to follow him in his dreams.
(02:16):
So that's why I got started.
And of course it got complicatedfor me because I'm not wired as
an entrepreneur.
Lots of struggles and mistakes,at least for at least the first
six years.
Beverly (02:27):
Yeah.
The entrepreneurial path isnever from A to B or C or D.
It's like do you remember, whenyou were a kid, I dunno if you
had these kits where you couldtake the yarn and put it in all
the different places.
I feel like that is what beingan entrepreneur is like, there's
ups and downs and sideways andit's never what you think it's
going to be.
Did your husband tend to land alittle bit easier than you in
(02:48):
this entrepreneurial'cause I'man accidental entrepreneur too.
I didn't go into this thinkingthis is what I wanted to do.
Was it easier for him becausethat's something he always
wanted to do?
Nathalie (02:57):
I think so.
I think that he is more wiredlike that.
He's really like problem solver.
He likes to be his own boss.
Makes his own decisions.
He loves the idea of anything ispossible versus wearing, you're
an employee.
You are capped by basically yoursalary.
Or the occasional bonus or tapin the back.
But that's what's alwaysattracted to him is how you,
(03:18):
what you have control over whatis possible.
Beverly (03:21):
So talk about how you started.
So the membership lab was first,right?
You chose a name and how yourbrand started and then how it's
evolved since 2005.
That's 20 years Nathalie.
That's amazing.
How has it evolved over the last20 years?
Nathalie (03:36):
Actually didn't start at the membership lab because we
were not even doing membershipsat the beginning.
We were doing websites Theformal name of the business is
new software marketing.
It's hard to say.
It's hard to type.
It's not the best, but that'slike the formal name of the
business, if you will.
And originally what we weregoing to do is really focus on
(03:56):
our expertise, which wassoftware engineering.
So let's build software.
And because we knew nothingabout marketing and sales, we
were like let's build it.
It's gonna be so amazing thatpeople will buy.
And guess what people don't buy.
Took six years and half amillion dollars, gone.
'cause we were financingourselves.
(04:16):
To realize, to finally get acoach, get some help, but they
say, you need to be online,right?
You guys are tech.
You need to build websites.
So that's how we got started andthat's what new software
marketing became, buildingwebsites.
And quickly it evolved intoe-learning.
Because we saw a lot ofcompetition building websites,
and I'm not like a brandingexpert, like design and stuff.
(04:39):
I'm more like the tech, like theautomation and the systems.
So we are like, this is notwhere we can compete, nor do we
want to build this like windowwebsites.
But there is room forimprovement to improve the
experience, to improve thee-learning experience for people
that are left alone in front oftheir computer.
And when, most people don'tcomplete online courses, you're
like there is room to growthere.
(05:00):
So we went into that directionand that's how the membership
lab was born.
Because the membership is thee-learning.
With the recurring incomebuilding community, which
creates that financialpredictability, which when you
are not an entrepreneur, youlike predictability.
You like not starting yourmonths at zero and having to
(05:23):
find clients again and again.
So that's really how it gotstarted.
And again, podcast Leadflow,very recent.
Just January, 2025.
When we really started to talkabout it same thing comes from a
problem that we found that gapbetween not knowing as a
podcaster, who are yourlisteners, who are my listeners.
And when we had clients say, Ihave a podcast, my clients are
(05:45):
telling me they listen to mypodcast.
I'm like, oh, really?
There's a gap because you havenothing to actually connect
people.
So how can we create something?
To bridge that gap, and that'show Podcast Lead came about.
Beverly (05:59):
As a podcaster, we have so many clients to podcast, it's
a great tool to possibly capturethe lead, but I actually serve
them customized content, whichis amazing.
I love that idea of not only arewe creating something that is a
show that has opportunity toinspire and to teach but also to
be able to create thatcustomized, personalized
relationship, which is whateverybody's looking for today.
(06:21):
Exactly.
So one thing you said earlierwas about reoccurring income.
Nathalie.
Yeah.
As a marketer, we have retainerclients, things like that.
But, it's great as a owner of abusiness to have reoccurring
income, but that reoccurringincome is so important for bank
loans for scaling opportunitiesfor forecasting, to create your
business vision, but also atsome point when you wanna
(06:42):
retire, it's the thing thatmakes you really attractive to a
buyer.
You're giving them somethingthat actually has repeating
income, which is a much bettersafety net for the business for
sure.
So I love that you talk aboutthe recurring income aspect of
it.
'cause I don't think peoplealways think about that in the
beginning of how do we createthis predictable.
I used to say I just want enoughincome to keep the lights on,
(07:04):
and then everything else is likecake.
Now I have bigger goals.
The thing at the beginning wasif I could just have something
that just kept the lights on,paid all the bills, then at
least I know I had a sustainablebusiness for a long-term kind of
situation.
Such an important part of itNathalie that I think we haven't
really talked about much on thepodcast.
So this particular season is allabout confidence and mindset.
What does confidence look likeyou for a business owner?
(07:25):
And can you share a moment whenyou realized you were truly
showing up with it?
Because you talked about in thebeginning how this was outside
your comfort zone, so that hadto make you feel a little less
confident.
So how has that evolved overtime?
Nathalie (07:36):
One of the questions I saw in your previous visit that
you ask is what is that onething you know that is maybe
preventing you, to move forwardand things like that.
And for me it's that fear ofbeing visible.
Like what I'm doing right now.
But I do it with a purpose.
It's very different, like whenlike I wouldn't be the person
that goes on Instagram andshares pictures of me doing this
(07:58):
and doing that and selfies,that's not me.
So what I found is that one onlydo the things that feel like
it's me.
So I'm giving myself permissionto not do that even, and if
people say you have to do that,I don't think so.
You have to find the way for youto be visible in a way that
aligns with who you really are.
And for me, that's not that.
(08:19):
I think that also surroundingmyself, with other people, that
think like me, they might bemore comfortable, in sharing and
things like that.
Just like this podcast, likeyou'll hear inspiring stories
where there is more than oneway.
So for me, it's all aboutfinding my way.
For example, I was able to do ahundred lives for a hundred days
(08:40):
on Facebook.
I think I did it twice.
Okay.
And that was more like on a darefrom a coach that says I want
you to do this.
And I'm like, I can do this andI will do this and I did it.
But for me it has to have apurpose.
It's very hard for me to dosomething if I don't know what
it's going to be doing to thebusiness.
It has to be strategic
Beverly (09:01):
and intention, and we talked about that.
When things are set withintention it's really clear and
focused, the results tend to bea lot better and you feel more
confident and comfortable in theprocess.
I know also when you're doingpodcast interviews, the
interviewer can make or break itlike for you, if they fake you
feel comfortable, if it feels alittle stuffy.
(09:22):
Like you can get real nervousand your tongue can get caught
up and I applaud you Nathalie.
There is absolutely no way Iwanna do a podcast in Spanish.
I can go to the beach inSpanish, but I don't know if I'd
wanna do business in Spanish.
So just kudos for you to notonly be visible in French, but
to be visible in a non-nativelanguage is extremely
vulnerable.
I wanna take a second to justhonor that because, I know you
(09:45):
lived here for 10 years and allthe things, but it's still not
your native tongue.
That is just a whole notherlevel of visibility.
That is very vulnerable.
Nathalie (09:53):
Yeah.
It's interesting you say thatbecause I am much more
comfortable speaking in Englishthan speaking in French to the
French market really?
There was a reason why we'rehaving this conversation, and
I'm not on the French podcasttoday.
It's because I don't connectwith the culture, so I would be
like this way of saying thingsand knowing all, I know it I
(10:15):
just don't connect with theFrench market at all.
So I'm actually more comfortablewith the US.
Beverly (10:22):
I would think it would be the opposite.
But if you were young enoughwhen you were here too.
When I was in Spain, I was youngenough and I feel a very strong
affinity to the Latin culturebecause of my experience.
And I joke, I say to my husbandall the time that's my people.
And he looks at me and he goesBeverly, really?
You realize you're like reallywhite with freckles and green
eyes and red hair.
And I'm like, yeah, but thoseare still my people.
(10:43):
I think when you have thosereally powerful experiences, you
connect in a way that you didn'teven know you could possibly
connect.
So I think it's so beautiful andso many levels.
So this idea of, you're still alittle uncomfortable today.
And you said, as long as youhave intention, I feel like
confidence is built.
That's something I talk a lotabout with my clients.
And it takes just continuoussteps of courage to do the
(11:04):
thing.
Despite the fear or the doubt orthe imposter syndrome that
you're feeling.
As you prepare for the podcast,as you prepare for this, even
though you have intention, howdo you work through that to get
to hear?
'cause you look, and you soundconfident
Nathalie (11:18):
I've done lots of'em, right?
When this goes live will be adifferent thing, but here there
is, it's only you and I having aconversation, right?
So it's very different and Italk to people every day.
But just to answer your questionI was on a run after lunch,
right before a call that clearsmy head and to prepare myself.
I either listen to music I justlook at positive things, I know
(11:40):
one of the things sometimes youask about books and stuff like
that.
So I'm like if she ask aboutbook, so I prepared it, it
builds my confidence to knowthat I actually prepared the
interview.
I've looked into the questionsyou could answer so that it
could provide value and thingslike that.
So that's my way of basicallysetting the intention on how do
I wanna show up.
Beverly (11:58):
Yeah, I think that's so great.
And I think as a podcast host,we were really intentional about
that.
We wanted our guests to be onthe podcast to feel like they
were prepared.
Now, we might not ask the exactquestion, but if they knew the
answers to these questions, theywould be comfortable with the
interview because we want it tobe something that you feel more
comfortable with.
So I love that you take a littlebit of a mental time.
(12:21):
I do the same thing.
I write an outline for myself.
I just get my thoughts in anorder before I go on a podcast.
What are the main things I wannamake sure I touch on?
Those are the things that Ithink most people who guest on
podcasts or people who thinkabout public speaking that do it
well.
They're prepared and they'vesaid it to themselves, they've
said it out loud.
A lot of times I'll read it outloud to myself to make sure it
(12:41):
flows off my tongue.
All the things.
I love the idea of walking orrunning or doing something
physical while you're likethinking it through.
Very powerful.
So you mentioned that what makesyour business unique is your
ability to turn complexity intoflow, especially when it's
aligned with the client'svision.
What did it take for you to getclear on your specific, unique
zone of genius and how do youcommunicate that in a way that
(13:03):
truly connects with yourparticular clients and course
creators and coaches?
cause I feel like there's twosides of that, right?
You have to be clear, but thenyou also have to share the
message in a way that's superclear.
Nathalie (13:15):
Yeah, absolutely.
It's one of those things whereit is easier to help people do
it than to do it for yourself.
And one of the things that Ilearned, through I guess trial
and errors and then just beingsurrounded by other people is
that when there is resistancewhen you procrastinate and that
(13:35):
is someone right now, at themoment that does that, says that
really well.
Like you are not lazy, you arejust out of an alignment.
So questioning like when yousaid you are going to do
something and you're not doingit, you are not lazy, it's not
about blaming yourself.
Look at why maybe it's notreally aligned with what you
want to do.
When I help people buildmemberships, you can see the
(13:57):
people that are all excited andyou know that they are like in
flow and things feel simpler.
I didn't say easy, but simpler.
Because we don't procrastinate.
We don't overcomplicate.
We're not looking for perfect.
We're looking for flow and justmoving forward, knowing that
there will be hiccups, therewill be some failures and things
(14:18):
like that, but doesn't matter.
We get back up, we keep going,and we can do that when we are
aligned, right?
Instead of trying to say what itis that I really want to do, we
go after the next, what we callthe shiny objects.
Oh, lot of people seem to besuccessful with this.
Let me do that.
Let me do a podcast.
Let me do a membership.
Oh, I need to apply a schoolgroup.
(14:38):
Oh, I need to do that.
But they don't look at what itis that I really want to do.
Beverly (14:43):
So you talk about flow.
I love being in flow.
I have ADHD, and it's very easyto get distracted, but when I'm
in my flow, ooh, it is my mostfavorite place.
One thing that I ask my clientsto do is to make a list of
drainers versus drivers.
What are the things that youalways wanna do first?
What are the things that exciteyou when you have it on your
to-do list?
(15:03):
And what are the drainers whereyou put'em off till tomorrow?
Don't wanna do it.
Don't feel inspired by it.
And how can you either automateit?
Or how can you hire someoneeither on your team, like a VA
or an actual vendor to take thatoff of your list?
So for me, it was bookkeeping.
That was the very first drainer.
I was like I'm a creative soul.
Please.
No, please, no.
And I wish I had done thatsooner, but I thought I had to
(15:25):
do it all myself.
The thing that you've mentionedearlier even was you can create
the business that is good foryou.
And if that means that you don'tdo this part, that doesn't mean
you're less than or lessperfect.
It just means that you have theforesight to say, my zone of
genius is here and my flow ishere, and this is the optimum
place for me to sit.
So to work with someone likeyou, I've created courses
(15:47):
there's psychology and educationprinciples and flow principles
and quizzes for memoryretention.
And there's so many things thatgo into course creation.
Not to mention the actualmarketing of it.
It's a whole nother level.
And so if I am a coach that doeswellness, i'm not gonna
necessarily know thepsychological or educational
(16:08):
principles for how to impartdisinformation on them.
So having vendors and partnerslike you help offload some of
that stuff so that I can justsit in the wellness stuff that I
am, that is my expertise and allof those things.
So people who come to you andthey get in the flow, how do you
get them more in the flow?
How do you relieve that pressurefrom them to have to do all the
(16:30):
things?
Nathalie (16:31):
That's basically also how I support people in a
course.
It's not open now, but I have acourse, for membership, it's
called First Members.
But for a client, when we builda membership is the same thing,
is making sure that we each haveroles where we excel, when we
are in the flow or in our zoneof brilliance, if you will,
right?
That's basically where we havethe best ideas where we really
(16:54):
shine, right?
We all have in the business andin life, things that we love and
are great at, love doing, andthings that we don't enjoy
doing.
We are not really good at it.
It drives our energy, right?
So it's about learning, what itis that.
You love to do when you're greatat.
And just outsource or get rid ofthe rest.
(17:15):
Because this idea that we can beeverything and do everything,
like we can be an amazingmarketer, an amazing
salesperson, an amazing teacher,and an amazing social media
manager.
That's bs that doesn't exist.
But when you can figure out moreabout you and give yourself
permission to really look atwhat it is that I'm really good
(17:35):
at and I want to do, and thenlet's figure out, let's build a
team, or let's find the tool andthe automation to do the rest so
that it's okay.
It's not perfect, but it's okay.
That's the job.
That's where you can grow.
And that's what I do with myclients.
There are clients that.
I barely talk to, right?
They are busy.
Everybody's busy, but they havea plan.
(17:55):
There are already a certainwindows where I can speak to
them and I make sure that I askthem everything that I need and
I can go back.
There are the people that need alot of back and forth.
They need validation.
They need one to three ideas andbounce back ideas, right?
So I think this is our job alsowhen we work with clients.
Yes, we have a framework, a wayof working, but we need to also
(18:18):
adapt to the way theycommunicate.
So that they can do the best jobthat they can and I can do the
best job that I can.
Beverly (18:26):
The very first thing that we do with our clients is
we call it a brand Sparkexperience.
It's a 90 minute deep dive wherewe look at where they've been,
where they're going.
We talk about core values andmission and vision, and we talk
about content pillars andmessaging and the next best four
to six opportunities to growinto their vision, whatever that
looks like for them, thatblueprint that we give to them
after a couple weeks after thatinterview is so empowering to
(18:47):
use with people like you becausethey can go to you and say, Hey,
this is who I am and this iswhere I wanna go and I need
help.
And sometimes you need someonefrom the outside to help you get
straight on where you're at inyour head and where you wanna
go.
You have so many ideas in yourhead.
Entrepreneurs are great atbuilding things.
So that's why the bright shinyobject syndrome is such a real
(19:08):
issue is we wanna build andbuild.
And actually, I joke, but goodmarketing is boring because you
have your four to six contentpillars.
You wanna be known for thosethings.
That's your brand promise.
It's really simple when you getdown to this brass tacks of what
it actually should be.
Good marketing can be fun andsassy and all those things, but
if you do it for long enough, itcan be a little bit boring'cause
you're doing the saying the samethings.
(19:28):
Cause that is your brandpromise.
And people think I need tochange it up.
Not necessarily don't overthinkthis.
They're not consuming everysingle bit of your content.
We would love to think thatthey're doing that.
Gosh, that would be awesome ifthey were.
But they aren't.
They're coming in and seeingthis one piece of content this
week, and maybe they're seeingyour email next week and maybe
they're seeing a podcast a weeklater.
They're not seeing it all in thebig plan that you have created.
(19:52):
And really, if you have a goodgear of content, you could
repurpose that and tweak it.
Be good for a long time.
But getting really clear firstis the thing that's the power in
it.
When you're clear, you have yourright left limits, you
understand?
Yes, nos really quick.
Should I do that?
Yes.
Should I do that?
No.
Is this fit me?
Yes.
Does it fit me?
No.
Is this work with what I wannago?
(20:12):
Yes.
This is exactly what I need.
And also when everything is outof your head on a plan like
that, on a piece of paper, itfrees your mind to do other
things that you're really goodat and that you should be doing.
In your application, youmentioned a couple of names,
James Wedmore and Kate Northropthat you've worked with.
Can you maybe talk a little bithow you've helped them and what
that looks like for them?
Nathalie (20:34):
Yeah.
So for James Wedmore, now Idon't know if you follow him,
but he has this new program,business by Design.
But before I did that, it wasthe video guy.
And that's in that era when wewere still doing websites and
sales pages.
So basically we were the techbehind the landing pages, the
free video series and all thatstuff.
(20:55):
Yeah.
So basically that's a greatexample where he was in his zone
of genius.
This is what I want to do.
Yeah.
There is like a designer, thisis what it's going to look like.
Let's make the automation, let'smake the take happen.
And when you are in a team likethat when roles are, really
clearly defined.
Then he doesn't have to worryabout, like even looking into
(21:17):
that, so that's an example.
We help him through severallaunches, actually, all of his
launches.
I still have the website.
It was called the WP Help Club.
And if you look, there is a tagline and it says, James Wedmore
says, I don't make a move whenit comes to my websites.
I don't make a move withoutNathalie and Olivier.
And that was like the besttestimonial I've ever had for
(21:38):
people.
And that's what we were, becausehe needed something, this is
what I need.
And then he wouldn't think twiceabout how it was gonna get done.
To me it's this is what I need.
Like we know where he is rightnow.
How much he has grown and howhe's actually changed direction,
just because that was hisvision.
So with Kate Northrop, this isat the time where she had a
(21:59):
book, but same thing, landingpages for a book for, I think
she was doing webinars at thetime and things like that.
So very similar, in the otherzone of genius.
So it was working more withactually a husband, like the
tech who was the person that Iwas interacting with.
And it's about this is thelaunch we are doing, this is
what needs to happen on thesite.
(22:20):
And then you just make ithappen, right?
So these are, people that arereally great at defining those
boundaries and those roles.
It's about building the rightteam.
It's about trusting people.
It's about being able to clearlyarticulate what it is that we
want.
Those were like great, client towork with because they basically
(22:42):
say, I just need this, and thenyou can just go in and there is
no micromanaging or anythinglike that.
Beverly (22:47):
Hey there, you've just finished part one of the Spark
Ignite Your marketing episode.
How are you feeling?
Excited, inspired, but we'rejust getting started.
This Thursday We're droppingpart two, and you won't wanna
miss it.
Be sure to subscribe to ournewsletter, so you'll be the
first to know when it goes live.
Until then, take a breather, letthose ideas simmer, and we'll
see you next week.
Did you know that behind some of the most seamless
online memberships is a womanwho left Silicon Valley, moved
to the south of France and builta business on her own terms
without a big team.
I'm your host, Beverly Cornell,founder and fairy godmother of
brand Clarity.
At Wickedly Branded, we havehelped hundreds of overwhelmed
overachieving consultants,creatives, and coaches awaken
(00:20):
their brand magic and boldlybring their marketing to life so
that they feel more confidentand attract their absolute
favorite and most profitableclients.
In today's episode, I'm joinedby Natali Doremieux co-founder
of the Membership Lab andPodcast Leadflow.
She's a powerhouse behind thescenes of high converting
membership and course platforms.
(00:40):
We're gonna dive into how hermindset, how simplicity and
strategic use of AI can unlockpowerful momentum without, oh my
gosh, the burnout.
Please more of this.
If you ever wanted your businessto feel more flow and less
force, this conversation is foryou.
Nathalie, welcome.
Nathalie (01:00):
Thank you so much for having me, Beverly.
Beverly (01:03):
I'm so excited.
So I wanna go back to thebeginning of your
entrepreneurial journey.
What led you to start yourbusiness and what did those
early days look like for you,and how did it grow from there?
Nathalie (01:14):
So actually the business really started in 2005.
I ran a family business with myhusband.
We met at school and afterschool, we decided to move to
the US to live the Americandream.
So we went there for the summerand we were like, we find a job,
we'll stay.
If we don't, we come back.
And we were both softwareengineers in the Silicon Valley,
(01:35):
so that worked out perfectly.
It was in 95.
At this time, I found a jobquite easily in Berkeley.
We got married in Reno, thelittle Las Vegas, so he could
stay, he got a job.
So we stayed there for 10 years.
We got three kids there.
And 10 years later, in 2005, wedecided to sell everything and
move back to France.
(01:55):
The goal was to stay two years.
But circumstances, life andbusiness and stuff, we are still
here.
So basically what happened isthat we found it as an
opportunity to start our ownbusiness because my husband has
always wanted to be his ownboss.
And I just became anentrepreneur for love, like just
to follow him in his dreams.
(02:16):
So that's why I got started.
And of course it got complicatedfor me because I'm not wired as
an entrepreneur.
Lots of struggles and mistakes,at least for at least the first
six years.
Beverly (02:27):
Yeah.
The entrepreneurial path isnever from A to B or C or D.
It's like do you remember, whenyou were a kid, I dunno if you
had these kits where you couldtake the yarn and put it in all
the different places.
I feel like that is what beingan entrepreneur is like, there's
ups and downs and sideways andit's never what you think it's
going to be.
Did your husband tend to land alittle bit easier than you in
(02:48):
this entrepreneurial'cause I'man accidental entrepreneur too.
I didn't go into this thinkingthis is what I wanted to do.
Was it easier for him becausethat's something he always
wanted to do?
Nathalie (02:57):
I think so.
I think that he is more wiredlike that.
He's really like problem solver.
He likes to be his own boss.
Makes his own decisions.
He loves the idea of anything ispossible versus wearing, you're
an employee.
You are capped by basically yoursalary.
Or the occasional bonus or tapin the back.
But that's what's alwaysattracted to him is how you,
(03:18):
what you have control over whatis possible.
Beverly (03:21):
So talk about how you started.
So the membership lab was first,right?
You chose a name and how yourbrand started and then how it's
evolved since 2005.
That's 20 years Nathalie.
That's amazing.
How has it evolved over the last20 years?
Nathalie (03:36):
Actually didn't start at the membership lab because we
were not even doing membershipsat the beginning.
We were doing websites Theformal name of the business is
new software marketing.
It's hard to say.
It's hard to type.
It's not the best, but that'slike the formal name of the
business, if you will.
And originally what we weregoing to do is really focus on
(03:56):
our expertise, which wassoftware engineering.
So let's build software.
And because we knew nothingabout marketing and sales, we
were like let's build it.
It's gonna be so amazing thatpeople will buy.
And guess what people don't buy.
Took six years and half amillion dollars, gone.
'cause we were financingourselves.
(04:16):
To realize, to finally get acoach, get some help, but they
say, you need to be online,right?
You guys are tech.
You need to build websites.
So that's how we got started andthat's what new software
marketing became, buildingwebsites.
And quickly it evolved intoe-learning.
Because we saw a lot ofcompetition building websites,
and I'm not like a brandingexpert, like design and stuff.
(04:39):
I'm more like the tech, like theautomation and the systems.
So we are like, this is notwhere we can compete, nor do we
want to build this like windowwebsites.
But there is room forimprovement to improve the
experience, to improve thee-learning experience for people
that are left alone in front oftheir computer.
And when, most people don'tcomplete online courses, you're
like there is room to growthere.
(05:00):
So we went into that directionand that's how the membership
lab was born.
Because the membership is thee-learning.
With the recurring incomebuilding community, which
creates that financialpredictability, which when you
are not an entrepreneur, youlike predictability.
You like not starting yourmonths at zero and having to
(05:23):
find clients again and again.
So that's really how it gotstarted.
And again, podcast Leadflow,very recent.
Just January, 2025.
When we really started to talkabout it same thing comes from a
problem that we found that gapbetween not knowing as a
podcaster, who are yourlisteners, who are my listeners.
And when we had clients say, Ihave a podcast, my clients are
(05:45):
telling me they listen to mypodcast.
I'm like, oh, really?
There's a gap because you havenothing to actually connect
people.
So how can we create something?
To bridge that gap, and that'show Podcast Lead came about.
Beverly (05:59):
As a podcaster, we have so many clients to podcast, it's
a great tool to possibly capturethe lead, but I actually serve
them customized content, whichis amazing.
I love that idea of not only arewe creating something that is a
show that has opportunity toinspire and to teach but also to
be able to create thatcustomized, personalized
relationship, which is whateverybody's looking for today.
(06:21):
Exactly.
So one thing you said earlierwas about reoccurring income.
Nathalie.
Yeah.
As a marketer, we have retainerclients, things like that.
But, it's great as a owner of abusiness to have reoccurring
income, but that reoccurringincome is so important for bank
loans for scaling opportunitiesfor forecasting, to create your
business vision, but also atsome point when you wanna
(06:42):
retire, it's the thing thatmakes you really attractive to a
buyer.
You're giving them somethingthat actually has repeating
income, which is a much bettersafety net for the business for
sure.
So I love that you talk aboutthe recurring income aspect of
it.
'cause I don't think peoplealways think about that in the
beginning of how do we createthis predictable.
I used to say I just want enoughincome to keep the lights on,
(07:04):
and then everything else is likecake.
Now I have bigger goals.
The thing at the beginning wasif I could just have something
that just kept the lights on,paid all the bills, then at
least I know I had a sustainablebusiness for a long-term kind of
situation.
Such an important part of itNathalie that I think we haven't
really talked about much on thepodcast.
So this particular season is allabout confidence and mindset.
What does confidence look likeyou for a business owner?
(07:25):
And can you share a moment whenyou realized you were truly
showing up with it?
Because you talked about in thebeginning how this was outside
your comfort zone, so that hadto make you feel a little less
confident.
So how has that evolved overtime?
Nathalie (07:36):
One of the questions I saw in your previous visit that
you ask is what is that onething you know that is maybe
preventing you, to move forwardand things like that.
And for me it's that fear ofbeing visible.
Like what I'm doing right now.
But I do it with a purpose.
It's very different, like whenlike I wouldn't be the person
that goes on Instagram andshares pictures of me doing this
(07:58):
and doing that and selfies,that's not me.
So what I found is that one onlydo the things that feel like
it's me.
So I'm giving myself permissionto not do that even, and if
people say you have to do that,I don't think so.
You have to find the way for youto be visible in a way that
aligns with who you really are.
And for me, that's not that.
(08:19):
I think that also surroundingmyself, with other people, that
think like me, they might bemore comfortable, in sharing and
things like that.
Just like this podcast, likeyou'll hear inspiring stories
where there is more than oneway.
So for me, it's all aboutfinding my way.
For example, I was able to do ahundred lives for a hundred days
(08:40):
on Facebook.
I think I did it twice.
Okay.
And that was more like on a darefrom a coach that says I want
you to do this.
And I'm like, I can do this andI will do this and I did it.
But for me it has to have apurpose.
It's very hard for me to dosomething if I don't know what
it's going to be doing to thebusiness.
It has to be strategic
Beverly (09:01):
and intention, and we talked about that.
When things are set withintention it's really clear and
focused, the results tend to bea lot better and you feel more
confident and comfortable in theprocess.
I know also when you're doingpodcast interviews, the
interviewer can make or break itlike for you, if they fake you
feel comfortable, if it feels alittle stuffy.
(09:22):
Like you can get real nervousand your tongue can get caught
up and I applaud you Nathalie.
There is absolutely no way Iwanna do a podcast in Spanish.
I can go to the beach inSpanish, but I don't know if I'd
wanna do business in Spanish.
So just kudos for you to notonly be visible in French, but
to be visible in a non-nativelanguage is extremely
vulnerable.
I wanna take a second to justhonor that because, I know you
(09:45):
lived here for 10 years and allthe things, but it's still not
your native tongue.
That is just a whole notherlevel of visibility.
That is very vulnerable.
Nathalie (09:53):
Yeah.
It's interesting you say thatbecause I am much more
comfortable speaking in Englishthan speaking in French to the
French market really?
There was a reason why we'rehaving this conversation, and
I'm not on the French podcasttoday.
It's because I don't connectwith the culture, so I would be
like this way of saying thingsand knowing all, I know it I
(10:15):
just don't connect with theFrench market at all.
So I'm actually more comfortablewith the US.
Beverly (10:22):
I would think it would be the opposite.
But if you were young enoughwhen you were here too.
When I was in Spain, I was youngenough and I feel a very strong
affinity to the Latin culturebecause of my experience.
And I joke, I say to my husbandall the time that's my people.
And he looks at me and he goesBeverly, really?
You realize you're like reallywhite with freckles and green
eyes and red hair.
And I'm like, yeah, but thoseare still my people.
(10:43):
I think when you have thosereally powerful experiences, you
connect in a way that you didn'teven know you could possibly
connect.
So I think it's so beautiful andso many levels.
So this idea of, you're still alittle uncomfortable today.
And you said, as long as youhave intention, I feel like
confidence is built.
That's something I talk a lotabout with my clients.
And it takes just continuoussteps of courage to do the
(11:04):
thing.
Despite the fear or the doubt orthe imposter syndrome that
you're feeling.
As you prepare for the podcast,as you prepare for this, even
though you have intention, howdo you work through that to get
to hear?
'cause you look, and you soundconfident
Nathalie (11:18):
I've done lots of'em, right?
When this goes live will be adifferent thing, but here there
is, it's only you and I having aconversation, right?
So it's very different and Italk to people every day.
But just to answer your questionI was on a run after lunch,
right before a call that clearsmy head and to prepare myself.
I either listen to music I justlook at positive things, I know
(11:40):
one of the things sometimes youask about books and stuff like
that.
So I'm like if she ask aboutbook, so I prepared it, it
builds my confidence to knowthat I actually prepared the
interview.
I've looked into the questionsyou could answer so that it
could provide value and thingslike that.
So that's my way of basicallysetting the intention on how do
I wanna show up.
Beverly (11:58):
Yeah, I think that's so great.
And I think as a podcast host,we were really intentional about
that.
We wanted our guests to be onthe podcast to feel like they
were prepared.
Now, we might not ask the exactquestion, but if they knew the
answers to these questions, theywould be comfortable with the
interview because we want it tobe something that you feel more
comfortable with.
So I love that you take a littlebit of a mental time.
(12:21):
I do the same thing.
I write an outline for myself.
I just get my thoughts in anorder before I go on a podcast.
What are the main things I wannamake sure I touch on?
Those are the things that Ithink most people who guest on
podcasts or people who thinkabout public speaking that do it
well.
They're prepared and they'vesaid it to themselves, they've
said it out loud.
A lot of times I'll read it outloud to myself to make sure it
(12:41):
flows off my tongue.
All the things.
I love the idea of walking orrunning or doing something
physical while you're likethinking it through.
Very powerful.
So you mentioned that what makesyour business unique is your
ability to turn complexity intoflow, especially when it's
aligned with the client'svision.
What did it take for you to getclear on your specific, unique
zone of genius and how do youcommunicate that in a way that
(13:03):
truly connects with yourparticular clients and course
creators and coaches?
cause I feel like there's twosides of that, right?
You have to be clear, but thenyou also have to share the
message in a way that's superclear.
Nathalie (13:15):
Yeah, absolutely.
It's one of those things whereit is easier to help people do
it than to do it for yourself.
And one of the things that Ilearned, through I guess trial
and errors and then just beingsurrounded by other people is
that when there is resistancewhen you procrastinate and that
(13:35):
is someone right now, at themoment that does that, says that
really well.
Like you are not lazy, you arejust out of an alignment.
So questioning like when yousaid you are going to do
something and you're not doingit, you are not lazy, it's not
about blaming yourself.
Look at why maybe it's notreally aligned with what you
want to do.
When I help people buildmemberships, you can see the
(13:57):
people that are all excited andyou know that they are like in
flow and things feel simpler.
I didn't say easy, but simpler.
Because we don't procrastinate.
We don't overcomplicate.
We're not looking for perfect.
We're looking for flow and justmoving forward, knowing that
there will be hiccups, therewill be some failures and things
(14:18):
like that, but doesn't matter.
We get back up, we keep going,and we can do that when we are
aligned, right?
Instead of trying to say what itis that I really want to do, we
go after the next, what we callthe shiny objects.
Oh, lot of people seem to besuccessful with this.
Let me do that.
Let me do a podcast.
Let me do a membership.
Oh, I need to apply a schoolgroup.
(14:38):
Oh, I need to do that.
But they don't look at what itis that I really want to do.
Beverly (14:43):
So you talk about flow.
I love being in flow.
I have ADHD, and it's very easyto get distracted, but when I'm
in my flow, ooh, it is my mostfavorite place.
One thing that I ask my clientsto do is to make a list of
drainers versus drivers.
What are the things that youalways wanna do first?
What are the things that exciteyou when you have it on your
to-do list?
(15:03):
And what are the drainers whereyou put'em off till tomorrow?
Don't wanna do it.
Don't feel inspired by it.
And how can you either automateit?
Or how can you hire someoneeither on your team, like a VA
or an actual vendor to take thatoff of your list?
So for me, it was bookkeeping.
That was the very first drainer.
I was like I'm a creative soul.
Please.
No, please, no.
And I wish I had done thatsooner, but I thought I had to
(15:25):
do it all myself.
The thing that you've mentionedearlier even was you can create
the business that is good foryou.
And if that means that you don'tdo this part, that doesn't mean
you're less than or lessperfect.
It just means that you have theforesight to say, my zone of
genius is here and my flow ishere, and this is the optimum
place for me to sit.
So to work with someone likeyou, I've created courses
(15:47):
there's psychology and educationprinciples and flow principles
and quizzes for memoryretention.
And there's so many things thatgo into course creation.
Not to mention the actualmarketing of it.
It's a whole nother level.
And so if I am a coach that doeswellness, i'm not gonna
necessarily know thepsychological or educational
(16:08):
principles for how to impartdisinformation on them.
So having vendors and partnerslike you help offload some of
that stuff so that I can justsit in the wellness stuff that I
am, that is my expertise and allof those things.
So people who come to you andthey get in the flow, how do you
get them more in the flow?
How do you relieve that pressurefrom them to have to do all the
(16:30):
things?
Nathalie (16:31):
That's basically also how I support people in a
course.
It's not open now, but I have acourse, for membership, it's
called First Members.
But for a client, when we builda membership is the same thing,
is making sure that we each haveroles where we excel, when we
are in the flow or in our zoneof brilliance, if you will,
right?
That's basically where we havethe best ideas where we really
(16:54):
shine, right?
We all have in the business andin life, things that we love and
are great at, love doing, andthings that we don't enjoy
doing.
We are not really good at it.
It drives our energy, right?
So it's about learning, what itis that.
You love to do when you're greatat.
And just outsource or get rid ofthe rest.
(17:15):
Because this idea that we can beeverything and do everything,
like we can be an amazingmarketer, an amazing
salesperson, an amazing teacher,and an amazing social media
manager.
That's bs that doesn't exist.
But when you can figure out moreabout you and give yourself
permission to really look atwhat it is that I'm really good
(17:35):
at and I want to do, and thenlet's figure out, let's build a
team, or let's find the tool andthe automation to do the rest so
that it's okay.
It's not perfect, but it's okay.
That's the job.
That's where you can grow.
And that's what I do with myclients.
There are clients that.
I barely talk to, right?
They are busy.
Everybody's busy, but they havea plan.
(17:55):
There are already a certainwindows where I can speak to
them and I make sure that I askthem everything that I need and
I can go back.
There are the people that need alot of back and forth.
They need validation.
They need one to three ideas andbounce back ideas, right?
So I think this is our job alsowhen we work with clients.
Yes, we have a framework, a wayof working, but we need to also
(18:18):
adapt to the way theycommunicate.
So that they can do the best jobthat they can and I can do the
best job that I can.
Beverly (18:26):
The very first thing that we do with our clients is
we call it a brand Sparkexperience.
It's a 90 minute deep dive wherewe look at where they've been,
where they're going.
We talk about core values andmission and vision, and we talk
about content pillars andmessaging and the next best four
to six opportunities to growinto their vision, whatever that
looks like for them, thatblueprint that we give to them
after a couple weeks after thatinterview is so empowering to
(18:47):
use with people like you becausethey can go to you and say, Hey,
this is who I am and this iswhere I wanna go and I need
help.
And sometimes you need someonefrom the outside to help you get
straight on where you're at inyour head and where you wanna
go.
You have so many ideas in yourhead.
Entrepreneurs are great atbuilding things.
So that's why the bright shinyobject syndrome is such a real
(19:08):
issue is we wanna build andbuild.
And actually, I joke, but goodmarketing is boring because you
have your four to six contentpillars.
You wanna be known for thosethings.
That's your brand promise.
It's really simple when you getdown to this brass tacks of what
it actually should be.
Good marketing can be fun andsassy and all those things, but
if you do it for long enough, itcan be a little bit boring'cause
you're doing the saying the samethings.
(19:28):
Cause that is your brandpromise.
And people think I need tochange it up.
Not necessarily don't overthinkthis.
They're not consuming everysingle bit of your content.
We would love to think thatthey're doing that.
Gosh, that would be awesome ifthey were.
But they aren't.
They're coming in and seeingthis one piece of content this
week, and maybe they're seeingyour email next week and maybe
they're seeing a podcast a weeklater.
They're not seeing it all in thebig plan that you have created.
(19:52):
And really, if you have a goodgear of content, you could
repurpose that and tweak it.
Be good for a long time.
But getting really clear firstis the thing that's the power in
it.
When you're clear, you have yourright left limits, you
understand?
Yes, nos really quick.
Should I do that?
Yes.
Should I do that?
No.
Is this fit me?
Yes.
Does it fit me?
No.
Is this work with what I wannago?
(20:12):
Yes.
This is exactly what I need.
And also when everything is outof your head on a plan like
that, on a piece of paper, itfrees your mind to do other
things that you're really goodat and that you should be doing.
In your application, youmentioned a couple of names,
James Wedmore and Kate Northropthat you've worked with.
Can you maybe talk a little bithow you've helped them and what
that looks like for them?
Nathalie (20:34):
Yeah.
So for James Wedmore, now Idon't know if you follow him,
but he has this new program,business by Design.
But before I did that, it wasthe video guy.
And that's in that era when wewere still doing websites and
sales pages.
So basically we were the techbehind the landing pages, the
free video series and all thatstuff.
(20:55):
Yeah.
So basically that's a greatexample where he was in his zone
of genius.
This is what I want to do.
Yeah.
There is like a designer, thisis what it's going to look like.
Let's make the automation, let'smake the take happen.
And when you are in a team likethat when roles are, really
clearly defined.
Then he doesn't have to worryabout, like even looking into
(21:17):
that, so that's an example.
We help him through severallaunches, actually, all of his
launches.
I still have the website.
It was called the WP Help Club.
And if you look, there is a tagline and it says, James Wedmore
says, I don't make a move whenit comes to my websites.
I don't make a move withoutNathalie and Olivier.
And that was like the besttestimonial I've ever had for
(21:38):
people.
And that's what we were, becausehe needed something, this is
what I need.
And then he wouldn't think twiceabout how it was gonna get done.
To me it's this is what I need.
Like we know where he is rightnow.
How much he has grown and howhe's actually changed direction,
just because that was hisvision.
So with Kate Northrop, this isat the time where she had a
(21:59):
book, but same thing, landingpages for a book for, I think
she was doing webinars at thetime and things like that.
So very similar, in the otherzone of genius.
So it was working more withactually a husband, like the
tech who was the person that Iwas interacting with.
And it's about this is thelaunch we are doing, this is
what needs to happen on thesite.
(22:20):
And then you just make ithappen, right?
So these are, people that arereally great at defining those
boundaries and those roles.
It's about building the rightteam.
It's about trusting people.
It's about being able to clearlyarticulate what it is that we
want.
Those were like great, client towork with because they basically
(22:42):
say, I just need this, and thenyou can just go in and there is
no micromanaging or anythinglike that.
Beverly (22:47):
Hey there, you've just finished part one of the Spark
Ignite Your marketing episode.
How are you feeling?
Excited, inspired, but we'rejust getting started.
This Thursday We're droppingpart two, and you won't wanna
miss it.
Be sure to subscribe to ournewsletter, so you'll be the
first to know when it goes live.
Until then, take a breather, letthose ideas simmer, and we'll
see you next week.
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