July 29, 2025 • 38 mins
Welcome to Spark & Ignite Your Marketing, the podcast where real conversations meet real strategies. I'm your host, Beverly Cornell, founder and fairy godmother of brand clarity at Wickedly Branded. With over 25 years of experience, I’ve helped hundreds of entrepreneurs awaken their brand magic, attract the right people, and build businesses that light them up.
In this episode, Dr. Athena Hall joins us to share how her movement, ZNA Health Network, is radically reimagining care by centering community voices and human dignity. From global health lessons to entrepreneurial pivots, this conversation is a masterclass in purpose-driven leadership, confidence, and reclaiming health for all.
Three Key Marketing Topics Discussed:
- Marketing with Heart, Not Perfection: Athena opens up about shifting from polished professionalism to authentic storytelling, and how showing up as herself on LinkedIn built more connections and momentum than any curated post ever could. Learn more about the power of Storytelling here!
- Clarity Over Complexity in Messaging: From pediatrician to founder, Athena shares how she’s learning to articulate a bold, complex vision in simple, clear language that invites collaboration and action. Struggling with Clarity in your brand? Check this out!
- Building a Movement Through Community Engagement: We explore how ZNA Health Network leverages storytelling, relationships, and visibility strategies to create a brand fueled by shared purpose and real human connection.
Follow Athena:
Athena Hall | LinkedIn
ZNA Health Network | Website
ZNA Health Network | Instagram
P.S. Take the first step (will only take you 3 minutes) to awaken your brand magic with our personalized Brand Clarity Quiz
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Beverly (00:00):
Did you know that over 70% of Americans say the
healthcare system is failing tomeet their needs and 64% don't
trust it to prioritize theirwellbeing?
And for doctors who care deeplyabout community health, that
statistic is just completelyfrustrating and it's fuel for a
movement.
I'm your host, Beverly Cornell,founder and fairy godmother of
(00:20):
brand clarity at Wickedlybranded.
And with over 25 years ofexperience, I've helped hundreds
of purpose-driven entrepreneursawaken their brand magic and
boldly bring it to life so theycan magnify their impact on the
world.
And today's guest is a changemaker in every single sense of
the word.
Dr.
Athena Hall is a pediatricianbased in Seattle, and the
(00:40):
founder of ZNA Health Network, apioneering initiative that
connects passionate healthcareadvocacy and shifts the
foundation of care throughcommunity centered action.
Athena, welcome to the show.
Athena (00:52):
Thank you.
I'm happy to be here.
Beverly (00:54):
Change makers and movement makers.
I love it so much.
Athena like how did you go frompediatrician and all the things
to this?
This is a big deal.
We were talked before.
I was like, she is just oneperson trying to make a big,
huge difference in an industryThat's a bit of a elephant.
Talk about the spark that movedto ZNA health network and what
did that look like for you?
Athena (01:14):
Yeah, I was really drawn to global health work from
pretty early on when I was incollege.
So right out of college I spentsome time in Tanzania and then I
did a global health fellowshipafter my residency training.
And during that time it reallyopened my eyes to the problems.
In our healthcare system and inour initiatives where we're
(01:37):
trying to help communities, Isaw that we weren't really
asking them what they need andinstead we were providing them
with help.
And it all came from a goodplace.
But a lot of it was reallymisguided.
The initiatives were notactually aligned with what the
people really needed.
And I saw the harm that theycaused.
I saw how our system is reallyhierarchical and that we were
(01:59):
teaching these communities andthe providers in the hospital to
act in the way that we do in ourhealthcare system, which is to
have experts and kind of elitismof I know what to do for you.
I know what you need.
And creating a sense ofpowerlessness and helplessness
for the patients and making ithard for them to advocate for
(02:21):
what they need.
I also saw the expense of ourhealthcare system, the burden
that had on the community andjust so many of the things were
really getting to me while I wasdoing this work.
So when I came back to thestates, I saw that actually this
is what we're doing in here aswell.
We're not connecting with ourcommunities and asking them what
(02:41):
their need we're doing a onesize fits all healthcare system
and providing them with servicesthat perhaps.
Aren't truly what they areasking for and what they need
and burdening them with hugemedical bills.
Two thirds of bankruptcy casesin the US are due to medical
bills and that's just wild.
We're trying to help people, butwe're actually causing a lot of
(03:05):
harm.
And 80% of our health issues inthe US are actually due to
social and environmentalfactors.
So when we're causing people tobe in debt and creating more
social difficulties for people,this is actually leading to
worse health outcomes.
Beverly (03:24):
Yeah.
The stress of all that can't begood for anyone.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Can you gimme an example of acommunity that has chosen
differently?
What does that look like even?
Athena (03:33):
Yeah, so in Alaska there's a healthcare system
called the NewCo System of Care.
It's run by Alaska Natives.
And 25 years ago they were giventhe opportunity to take over
their own healthcare system.
It used to be Indian HealthServices, which was a federally
run healthcare system.
They had.
Enormous numbers of people thathad mental health and chronic
(03:56):
disease as well as having toutilize the ER so much because
they couldn't get into theirprimary care doctor.
And once they took over theirown healthcare system, they
decided to do everythingcompletely differently.
And they wanted the community tobe part owners in their
healthcare system.
So they call the patients'customer owners and they put
(04:20):
them in the center of theirhealthcare system and they get
to say what services they want,how they want the services to be
provided.
And that has had huge.
Improvements in the ER visits,they have 93% patient
satisfaction, which is unheardof in healthcare, and I think
(04:40):
it's something like 97% employeesatisfaction.
So burnout is so low amongst inthat healthcare system because
there is a sense of purpose andan alignment for with the
services that are provided andwhat people actually need.
Beverly (04:56):
So gimme an example of what people actually need versus
the services that are provided.
Is there an example even inAlaska or in Tanzania where you
were seeing these other servicesshoved down their throats, but
what did they actually need insome of these areas?
Athena (05:10):
Yeah.
So we really are focused onfixing problems after they
happen and putting out fires.
So we invest, I think it's 97%of our healthcare dollars in
these reactive health services.
And only 3% goes towardsprevention.
And what people actually needand what they are wanting is
(05:31):
investment and preventionservices.
And that includes addressingthings like housing food
insecurity transportation, andhaving a safe environment around
them, as well as having accessto a team of people who are
listening to them and helpingthem to live healthy lives.
(05:51):
And in a way that's more of apartnership instead of a parent
telling them what to do.
Beverly (05:56):
I love this so much.
My mom is a nurse and has alwaystaught me to advocate for
myself.
Like even if the doctor sayssomething, you have every right
to question that or ask forsomething different, you know
your body better than anybodyelse.
So don't let somebody justbecause they have a fancy degree
dictate what you think doesn'tfeel right.
And I remember I had injured myhip and they kept wanting to
(06:16):
medicate the pain.
And I kept saying, no, I wantyou to find out what's wrong
with it so we can stop the painfrom there.
And it took me three and a halfyears Athena Wow.
To get to the root of it and tofinally get a MRI with contrast
to realize that my labrum wastorn.
I ended up going to anorthopedic surgeon who dealt
with people paratroopers whojump out of airplanes.
(06:38):
But.
I remember feeling so incrediblyfrustrated at all the tests, and
the only answer was to gimmepain medicine..
But I agree with you so muchlike nutrition and like
meditation and helping in thefront end versus that backend of
reactive medicine is what we'vealways done.
That's very much a western typeof medicine.
I feel like there's a lot ofmoney happening and power and
(07:00):
all those things.
How does Athena go up againstall of that?
Athena (07:04):
I really don't want to go up against all of that.
I think we would lose if wetried to fight it.
I think instead it's reallycoming together everyone who is
passionate about providingquality healthcare for their
communities, working together tooffer something different and
(07:25):
funding that our current systemis collapsing.
Like we had this big, beautifulbill.
I put that in quotes.
Just pass.
And it's going to further deepenour inequities in our country
and we will see more people thatare sick and unable to access
care.
That's just, another huge crackin the system that we have
(07:47):
that's really not working forpeople.
So we need something that we'rebuilding alongside that, that
people can shift over to so thatthey can actually support the
health of not only themselves,but of the people around them.
Beverly (08:02):
If they're making so much money on pharmaceuticals
and things like that, how do youcreate the value for them just
to work with you to createbusiness models in the
healthcare industry?
Athena (08:12):
I think, finding some common ground is important.
Where we are all benefiting in away, but we have to really shift
all of the systems to centerhumans instead of profits.
So the systems, our healthcaresystem is really a myriad of
systems that are all centered onprofits.
And those are collapsing.
(08:35):
I think the pharmaceuticalcompany offers a lot of
bandaids.
It's really not geared towardspreventing disease.
And a lot of those bandaids aresuper important.
A lot of people do need reallyimportant medications but it
needs to shift to reallycentering the people that
they're caring for.
(08:55):
I think that's just gonna be aprocess, but we're not here to
fight against, we're here tofight for.
Beverly (09:02):
Human-centered, people-centered what did you say
that in Alaska?
Yeah, customer owners.
Customer owners.
I love it so much.
Recently, the Canadian PrimeMinister said that he was
traveling the country andtalking to his.
bosses, meaning the people,right?
And this idea of that, we arethe customer, but we certainly
have a voice, and it is ourbodies and our health that's at
(09:22):
stake here.
And there's just so much to it.
It's such a complex thing.
I'm so impressed, Athena, thatthis is something that you want
to go up against.
What has been the biggestchallenge that you've faced so
far?
'cause it's been about a year,right?
That ZNA has existed.
Athena (09:38):
I first started thinking about ZNA, or I call it ZNA.
About two years ago was when Ireally started investing in it
and working on it.
And, ultimately what I want tobe able to do with Cena is to to
offer people adaptablehealthcare models, offer
communities, so that everycommunity can ask for what they
(10:00):
need at different times.
It might be, five years from nowthey need more social workers
and then another five years theyneed more neuroscientists to
research something that's goingon in their community or
whatever it is that they'reasking for.
I think I've run into a lot ofbig challenges.
Becoming an entrepreneur is likehaving a baby and it really
(10:20):
pushes you to grow a lot.
And I'm currently going througha growth process with it and
hitting some walls.
It's challenging but I know whatthat ultimate vision is and
where I'm moving towards, and Idon't know what the path is
gonna look like or the hardshipsthat I'm going to face.
Sure.
But I know I just need to keepmoving forward.
(10:42):
So yeah, currently it's justdifficult to get everyone
together towards a common goal.
I was initially going aftersomething too big, and so I'm
trying to make the steps smallerright now so that we have
smaller steps and small winsthat we can build on before
going after something bigger.
Beverly (11:02):
Yes.
Sometimes it can be the tinieststep, at least it's progress.
Yes.
What is one mindset shift thatyou've had to make, to move from
doctor to founder?
Athena (11:11):
I think as a doctor working in our healthcare
system, you're just at the whimof the system.
And there, I don't have a lot ofsay in the care that I'm
providing because I have to go,with the evidence-based
medicine.
And I work with a team and weall have to be practicing in a
(11:32):
certain way.
And so as a founder, there's alot more nuance, there's a lot
so many different balls in theair and decisions to make, and I
really have to ask for a lotmore help.
And learn a lot of skills that Ididn't have previously.
So it's a mindset shift and nottrying to be this, fiercely
(11:55):
independent woman.
Now I'm really having to ask forhelp and it's very humbling
process.
Beverly (12:00):
I think, doctors are the most highly educated people
in the world, right?
You go to school for a very longtime and you are highly
respected.
You have a title that suggestsas such, and then you go to
founder and you're like yeah,this is not what I learned.
This is something completelydifferent.
It's almost like a differentlanguage, which part of it has
been the hardest, do you thinkis it accounting?
(12:20):
Is it marketing?
Is it operations?
Athena (12:23):
All of the above.
Yeah.
I have no business background.
So I've, taken a crash coursehad business coaches help me to
understand marketing as well asthe financial side.
So those things have been reallychallenging and perhaps not my
strong suit.
I think my strength lies inbringing people together,
(12:45):
connecting as well as being avisionary.
And the skills are important tolearn, but I want to, at some
point, be able to shift thoseover to people that are really
strong in those skills.
Beverly (12:58):
I know the awareness of the things that we don't do
well, the humbling of ourskillset.
And being able to offload those,whether it's through automation
or through partners or whateverthat looks like for a business
owner, is something that I feellike so many entrepreneurs, so
many business people have feltfrom the very beginning.
And if you're a listener rightnow, and you've felt this to
(13:19):
your core where you're like,it's so humbling having to
figure this all out, you'reprobably not alone.
And I would love it if you'dshare this episode with someone
who you know is struggling to doall the things, because this is
something that we so often seeand you are not alone.
And there are so many that arestruggling, just like Athena and
I struggle.
I'm in a place now where i'vebeen able to offload some of
(13:39):
that stuff.
But that's such a ongoingprocess, not only in, like you
said, from your confidence tohumbling and asking for help,
but also this idea of no one'sgonna do it like I would do it.
So the trust aspect of it.
There's so much to that processas a business owner that is
like, how do I clone myself?
So if you're feeling that, thenyou're in the right place.
(14:01):
And I'm so grateful that you'rehere today and maybe you could
share this with someone else whoyou know, is in the same boat,
just trying to figure it allout.
Yeah.
So this whole season's aboutconfidence, Athena, it's all
about what does it look like forbusiness owners and is there a
moment that kind of like itshows up stronger than others?
I gotta believe like probably inthe pediatric office, you are
like.
(14:22):
Awesome.
And you've got this thingcovered and all the things.
How does confidence show up foryou as a business owner though?
Athena (14:27):
Yeah, it comes up for me in asking for help knowing what
it is that I need help with andbeing able to ask for that.
That's been a growth edge for meand something that I'm growing
my confidence in because as Isee things growing and people
taking on different tasks, itgives me a sense of confidence
(14:48):
in we're going somewhere.
I'm doing something and insteadof putting it all on my
shoulders and barely takingsteps forward because it's just
too much, yeah.
And then I'm also workingtowards being a public speaker
so that I can bring people intothe network as well as shift
people's perspectives on what'spossible in healthcare.
(15:10):
So many people think their modelfor what's possible is based on
the system that we already have.
But we can do things completelydifferently and totally
reimagine it.
So as I am working towardsgetting on stage, that's also
building my confidence in mybusiness of I can do this, I can
speak about this clearly, andhave a clear message and and
(15:31):
bring people into to what we'redoing.
Beverly (15:33):
That clarity of message, that clarity of
purpose, that's so key.
But speaking on a stage is notfor the weak of heart.
Athena (15:40):
Something I Never thought I would do.
Beverly (15:42):
Kids can be a tough crowd, so I feel like you've
been tested.
Yeah.
So I know you've been usingLinkedIn'cause we've connected
through LinkedIn and you're alsodoing lives and you're doing
some personalized posts toengage your community.
Why do you think thosestrategies are working so well
for you?
Athena (15:57):
LinkedIn is a space where a lot of professionals,
especially in healthcare, aretalking about the problems in
our healthcare system.
And they're looking forsolutions and looking for those
networks and connections.
So that's a great space for meto be talking about everything.
I'm learning to be more and moreauthentic as I go with it.
(16:19):
In the beginning I was like, Ihave to be polished and
professional and be this certainway.
And as I'm letting go of that,more people are coming.
Cause they're seeing more of whoI am and that's what's gonna
bring people in.
Beverly (16:32):
I really want my listeners to hear this.
What Athena is saying is thatshe thought she had to be
perfect as a recoveringperfectionist.
I feel it in my bones thatinitially when I started, I
thought I had to be perfect too.
But what I have learned is whenI just show up as me chatting,
like I'm having coffee withsomebody or whatever, that's
when I resonate the most andconnect the most with you guys,
(16:53):
the listeners, as well as myclients.
And that being so polished andperfect is actually something
that people can see right awaythat you're fake or that you're
not genuine, or that there'sjust something too perfect about
the person.
So when you are real, when youshare yourself in that way as
scary and vulnerable, I'm sureas it is for you, Athena.
(17:14):
That is where.
The magic really happens andpeople will connect far more to
you and who you are.
So kudos for you, despite howhard it is for you yeah, to do
it.
But showing up exactly as you iswhat the world needs.
The world needs more of justgenuine, authentic relationships
and purposes and passions andIt's a hard lesson that I
(17:35):
continue to struggle with.
Like will people get it?
Will they like all the things,right?
We have all this doubt aroundit.
So many solopreneurs andentrepreneurs struggle with, I
call them the flying monkeys ofperfectionism, self-doubt, and
imposter syndrome.
And I literally visualize when Istart to doubt something, like
batting it away like it's amonkey, right?
(17:55):
This is not gonna get in my wayof what my purpose is in this
world.
So just know, like you are notalone in that Athena.
And if you're listening, youfeel that, I wanna hear it, tag
me.
Tell me that you're feeling thatway, because I think there's
power in numbers of people whounderstand what you're going
through.
Athena (18:11):
Yeah.
I've been absolutely crushed byself-doubt and through this
journey.
And I've had to just be like,you know what?
I'm just gonna keep movingtowards my purpose.
For whatever reason, this iswhat lights me up and this is
where I'm heading towards.
And it's scary, but that meansit's important to me.
And yeah, I still, experiencethat self-doubt.
(18:32):
It comes in and I try to not letit push me all the way down.
I just have to acknowledge itand move forward.
Beverly (18:41):
You didn't choose a small little process.
Yeah.
That was one of the biggest tochoose.
So you're gonna have to fortifyyourself with your support
people.
Your family, your friends, tokeep you motivated.
I am certainly cheering you on,I think I told you that last
time, is that I believe in whatyou're doing.
It's so important and sopowerful.
I just I feel a littleoverwhelmed by the whole process
(19:01):
just thinking about it, I lovethat there's someone who wants
to dig in and really make adifference in that way.
So literally.
Kudos to you.
And if you're listening and youwanna help support Athena by
sharing this episode, by givinga review, by subscribing, that
will help her message get outfurther and help make more
ripples for her please do thatbecause we need more people to
(19:24):
speak about change in a waythat's beneficial for the human,
the people in our country and inthe world.
If I could just give you alittle boost, I would.
I am super impressed by the taskyou have at hand.
Athena (19:36):
ZNA is all about bringing people together from
different perspectives,different areas.
It's not just healthcareworkers.
It can be, somebody out in thecommunity who owns a daycare or
who teaches meditation as wellas people in healthcare.
It's so important, if you'refeeling called to support
(19:59):
something like this, to offeryour perspective and just see
how you can help out.
Because we need to listen toyou, we need to hear what you
have to say, and your skills andknowledge is incredibly
important.
Beverly (20:13):
What's the biggest question people ask you?
What is the thing they alwaysask you?
They always wanna know moreabout what,
Athena (20:17):
They often wanna know what ZNA is about.
They wanna know why I started itI actually met somebody named
Zena, a woman, and I wasstruggling at that point to
figure out the name'cause it wasoriginally transforming
healthcare.
And I was, it was too generic.
Yeah.
So I was spending months tryingto figure this out and I met
this woman and I was like,that's it, that's the name.
(20:38):
It's ZNA.
But I wanted it to be ZNA, sothat it's like the future DNA of
our people so that we can passdown like a legendary healthcare
system and shift the health ofpeople for generations to come.
Beverly (20:53):
I love that the DNA ZNA.
So if you could say one thing tomaybe inspire somebody to be
involved, what would it be?
What is the thing that shouldcompel them to be part of this
movement?
Athena (21:03):
Yeah.
I think that their perspectiveand their experience and
knowledge matters and can have ahuge impact on the health and
lives of themselves, theirfamilies, as well as the people
around them.
And so if they're involved, theycan really magnify or amplify
(21:24):
their impact and put theirskills towards something that
is, really helping themselvesand the people around them as
well as future generations.
Beverly (21:33):
Yeah, for sure.
Advocating not only forthemselves, but for all the
people you hear talking abouttheir health problems and
challenges and what you witnessevery day.
Athena (21:42):
Yeah.
I think too, as humans, we havea longing to contribute to
people around us.
We have a value in our countryof individualism, but we see so
many people struggling withisolation and loneliness and
having to do things all on theirown.
And it's really not healthy forhumans.
And we've seen isolation is, hasa huge negative impact on our
(22:04):
health.
So to be able to contribute andto connect with others is
something that will fulfill youand will improve your life in a
big way.
Beverly (22:14):
Yeah, for sure.
I think when we give, we get somuch, there's something so
powerful in that.
Yes.
Exchange.
Like you don't even realize whatyou get when you give fully,
when you give withoutexpectation.
It's a whole different level
Athena (22:28):
and it's not transactional.
It's not a one-to-one thing.
You're just giving, and it maycome back to you at some point
in a different way.
But what matters is how it makesyou feel and how it fuels you.
Beverly (22:40):
Yeah.
And it's one of the things thatI think, I don't know if I think
it, I probably know it, but isthe idea that we all need to be
part of something bigger thanourselves?
Athena (22:48):
Yes.
Beverly (22:49):
And, I think having that grounds us in a way that
nothing else can, in some ways,like nothing else can do that.
Yeah.
I've always been veryoptimistic, altruistic.
Probably a little naive towanting to save the world and
all the things.
Athena (23:02):
I relate.
Beverly (23:03):
But I've also had, I think like you had some
experiences where it's no, youcan't, and you're only one
person and getting everyone elseto behave has not always been
easy.
So this Particular section's allabout the magic hat.
There are a lot of questions inthe magic hat.
Okay.
And I let the magic hat decidewhat's gonna come out of it.
So the first question is, oh,that's a hard one for you, but
(23:24):
what was the moment you realizedyour business was successful?
Athena (23:28):
Yeah, I would say we launched in January and I had
gathered at that point a coreteam to help me to build ZNA.
And just seeing how many peoplewere.
Rallying around it, that to me,was like, okay, we can do this.
I know I can't do it by myself.
(23:48):
Yeah.
And there are people who believein this and who want to be part
of it.
Beverly (23:52):
Yeah.
Everybody needs supporters.
One of the things I often ask mylisteners to do is if somebody
has inspired you or somehow aaffected you to please let them
know.
Because people need affirmationsto know that they're continuing
the work, do the work that theydo.
So often we take it for grantedthat the work that people are
doing is just happening, but ifthey've somehow possibly
(24:12):
affected you in some way youneed to lift them up so that
they can continue to do thework.
Yeah.
So you talked about self-doubt,but have you ever thought about
quitting and what pulled youback?
Athena (24:21):
Actually over the last month I had been struggling
with, and I told you, all thesedoubts were crushing me.
The core team is disintegratedin a way because of the
initiative I was trying to dowas too big and we weren't
moving forward.
And I was like, maybe I'm justgonna forget all of this, let
the healthcare do its thing andjust dance.
I have two big things that I'mmoving towards, but I went on a
(24:46):
backpacking trip for a week andjust spent a time in nature and
really just got away from all ofthe frenetic energy and.
Reconnected with where I'm goingand why I am doing it.
And prior to that I was reallytrying to grasp at like, why am
I doing this?
What am I doing this for?
And It was a lot of mentalanalysis, but spending time in
(25:09):
nature helped me just toreconnect to it from a different
space.
And it really helped to launchme forward again.
I was like, I just need to takesmaller bites.
Let's do this smaller thingtogether.
And so now we're gatheringmomentum again.
But I did have a moment of maybeI wanna quit.
Beverly (25:27):
I think almost every entrepreneur has said I might
need to just put this towel inand just say, I'm done.
This is not what I need to do.
Athena (25:33):
But I know If I died, in 10 years or whenever it is, I
would be heartbroken that Ididn't move towards this.
It's just something that, itfeels, it's a part of me.
Beverly (25:44):
I keep going back to that.
Your purpose and your why is thefuel for everything.
We help a lot of entrepreneursget to that.
We joke that we're marketingtherapists, right?
But that's really what you haveto get to is that ultimate
vision and the legacy that youwant to see to fuel everything
and get you through.
And I think having thatawareness of if I were not to do
this, I would so regret it.
Athena (26:05):
Yeah.
Beverly (26:05):
Tell us about a time when you had to pivot and what
did you learn?
Athena (26:08):
I first launched ZNA last year and I I hadn't really
gathered enough support yet.
I wasn't posting regularly onLinkedIn.
Not many people knew what I wasdoing.
And I was down on myself for alittle bit after, it wasn't
going anywhere.
And I was like, you know what?
I just, I need to pivot intofocusing on building support
(26:31):
first and then launching it.
Yeah.
Beverly (26:33):
Every single quote unquote, failure is a learning
opportunity.
And if you don't learn, thenyou'll keep making those
mistakes or you'll preventyourself from growing.
So I love that you took it as anopportunity to be like, okay.
What do I do next?
And if it's not feeling right,like in your bones, in your
soul, in your intuition, thenit's time to shift something.
So what is something in ZNA thatbrings you pure joy?
Athena (26:55):
It brings me pure joy to just to connect with people who
want to be part of the changeand to feel our collective.
Excitement and momentum.
That just brings me a lot of joybecause when humans come
together and they have a sharedpurpose, it's incredible what is
possible.
(27:16):
And that really excites me.
Just to see everybody lightingup and feeling like they're
working towards something andgonna make an impact.
Beverly (27:24):
So good.
I love the idea of humans comingtogether and, as an individual
you can do something, but as acollective you can do so much
more.
One of our core values is fusionbecause.
Individually, you're powerful,but together you create an
explosion.
Yeah.
Athena (27:40):
I love that.
I've never heard of that as acore value.
I really like it.
Beverly (27:42):
Oh yeah.
It's one of our core values.
Another one is dynamic.
'cause we're always like,adjusting and changing and like
tools in our business change allthe time.
It's marketing and social mediaalgorithms change, so we can
never be complacent.
We have to be dynamic.
And then honor is the other one,which I think honor to
ourselves, honor to each other,honor to our client that also
incorporates honesty andintegrity.
(28:03):
But it's more than that.
It's how you show up in theworld.
Walk with honor is a wholedifferent feeling than just
integrity.
So I do have a magical wand.
Oh, okay.
And the wand helps us go intothe future.
And into the past.
So I'm gonna wave the wand andwe're gonna go in the past and
we're gonna talk to Athena whenshe just graduates from high
(28:24):
school.
Athena (28:25):
Oh, wow.
Beverly (28:26):
And we're gonna give her a piece of advice.
So what advice would we giveher?
Athena (28:30):
Wow.
I experienced reallydebilitating social anxiety when
I was in high school and it was,I think in 10th grade, that I
decided that I wasn't gonna dealwith that anymore or let it stop
me.
And so I started being more of achameleon and I was voted most
transformed.
(28:50):
I developed some skills and howto navigate my social
environment without being soisolated.
But underneath it all, I wasstill experiencing incredible
social anxiety.
And so I would tell her that itreally doesn't matter what
everyone is thinking and howthey're perceiving me that I'm a
beautiful human and we all haveunique gifts, and if I just let
(29:13):
that shine, people will come tome that are meant for me and
people that aren't meant for mewill be repelled by me, and
that's okay.
Beverly (29:21):
Oh, such good advice.
You have all this passion, butthis anxiety it is like keeping
you back.
What were some of the tools thatyou used to get past it?
What did you learn?
Athena (29:30):
Yeah.
I saw a counselor on my collegecampus who helped me, gave me
some tools to deal with theanxiety and to see the thoughts
for what they were.
That helped some.
But overall, like what has beenhuge is my healing journey over
the last six years.
Just like confronting all of myfeelings and being with them and
(29:53):
processing.
As I've done that, I've justgrown stronger and integrated
all this stuff.
Yeah.
Beverly (29:58):
It's not easy work though, no.
I have some anxiety and mytherapist calls it my Jenga
tower of trauma that I have tolike work through.
And I call that the elephant,like I have to go through it
piece by piece.
I can't just dive into theelephant.
I have to actually go throughevery single piece of it.
Athena (30:15):
Yeah.
And you think, Hey, I wentthrough this piece, but here it
is again.
Beverly (30:20):
Oh, that's where I'm at.
I went through all of it andthen I got married and had kids
and like that triggers in a waythat I never thought.
Yeah, it's a whole thing.
Plus you add on hormones of likeperimenopause and all other
things and oh wow.
I was recently diagnosed with ADHD and I'm actually AuDHD, so
oh, that makes so much sense nowthat I reacted the way I reacted
(30:40):
as a kid.
It's very complex.
The human experience is verycomplex.
It's such a good gift you'regiving yourself to do it, to
allow yourself to have thefreedom from some of that stuff
so you're not carrying it withyou all the time.
'cause it can get real heavy,real fast.
So, What Would Young Athena,18-year-old Athena, if she could
see you now, what would she sayto you?
Athena (30:59):
She would say I'm a really rad person.
She'd be like, whoa.
Because I started traveling soonafter that and really becoming
adventurous and wanting toexplore the world and my mind
was opening.
So when I was 18 though, myworld was pretty limited and
yeah.
So I think she would just beastonished with who I am now and
(31:20):
how dynamic I am.
Beverly (31:21):
She'd be proud, right?
Athena (31:22):
Yeah, absolutely.
Beverly (31:23):
So when you're feeling like you wanna give up, think of
her too, right?
Think of her like, oh yeah, yougot this.
Look how far you've come.
Yeah.
Have her be your little voice inyour head.
Yeah.
So I'm gonna wave the wand andI'm gonna take you way into the
future.
And you alluded to this a littlebit in the interview, but what
do you want people to remembermost about working with you if
you were to pass, what is thething that you want them to
(31:44):
remember about you?
Athena (31:45):
Oh, I love this.
I would want them to rememberthat I'm somebody who helped
them to just be fully expressed,to feel like who they are
matters, what they have to offermatters and that they can create
change in their world and be apart of something bigger.
Beverly (32:05):
So at your eulogy, someone's gonna give that eulogy
of you, Athena, and they'regonna talk about all these
amazing things that you've done.
What do you think will be yourmost significant legacy or
impact?
Athena (32:15):
I think my most significant legacy will be that
I have given people and systemsthe opportunity to return to
nature, to return to what'shealthy.
So I have opened doors andencouraged and inspired people
(32:37):
and our healthcare system toshift into something that is
truly supportive, that ishealthy, and that is impactful.
Beverly (32:46):
So I'm gonna wave us back into the present.
This season's all aboutconfidence.
So this is the magical tip.
As small business owners oraspiring entrepreneurs, for
those tuning in today, what isone tip you'd give to those who
are trying to build moreconfidence in how they show up
to run their business?
Athena (33:03):
I would tell them to really lean on the people around
them.
And see what gifts you have,where your strengths lie, really
lean hard into those and leaninto the people around you to
support you in the areas thatyou struggle in.
We can't be perfect.
We can't be everything.
We all have our gaps.
(33:23):
And I think it helps so much inbuilding your confidence to
recognize where your strengthsare and where you need help.
Beverly (33:31):
Yeah.
I say confidence is built, it'snot natural.
Yeah.
You have to over and over againbuild it and have those
successes and put yourself insituations like public speaking
or whatever that kind of pushyou outside of that.
And the more you do it, the moreit's built and the stronger the
muscle gets and it just becomessomething so much more than you
even possibly could imagine.
Athena (33:53):
Yeah, that's another thing that I've done to build my
confidence is to throw my hatover the wall of like, all
right, so I booked a speakingevent.
This is happening.
I don't feel ready, but I haveto get ready.
And just having that challenge,it's something that's possible.
It's not overwhelming but it'sscary.
(34:16):
Yeah.
Beverly (34:16):
Throwing the hat over the wall is like half the
battle.
And then once you have the date,now you have to figure out all
the things to get there.
Even if it's not perfect, it'sgoing to get you one step closer
to being better.
So throw your hat over the wallpeople.
Let's go.
If his episode has sparkedsomething in you.
Maybe you're gonna throw yourhat over the wall.
Maybe you're gonna go book thattalk.
You're gonna go do something youhaven't had the gumption to do
(34:39):
before.
Take a minute and leave us areview and let us know if we've
helped you move that forward.
That's super helpful for us.
So Athena.
I want you to share with ourlisteners where they can learn
more about you and ZNA and howthey can get involved.
Athena (34:52):
Yeah, you can find me on LinkedIn at Athena Lorin Hall.
So Lorin is L-O-R-I-N and youcan also find ZNA on
www.znahealthnetwork.com.
Love it.
Yeah, and there's a button thereto say, join the movement and
you can join for free and seewhat we're all about.
Beverly (35:14):
Wonderful.
And from one curly haired girlto another.
I'm so glad that you've come andstopped by today on the podcast,
and this has been an incredibleconversation, sharing your
wisdom, your journey, yourvulnerability, and your magic
with us.
I know our listeners are gonnawalk away feeling far more
inspired and ready to takeaction.
I'm so grateful for your time,for the impact that you are
making on the world.
(35:35):
Kudos to you.
Athena (35:36):
Thank you so much, Beverly.
This has been wonderful.
Beverly (35:38):
For those of you who are listening, I hope you
enjoyed this incredibleconversation, and I hope it lit
a little bit of a fire in youand gave you new ideas, and most
of all, inspired you to takeaction.
Because here's the thing, yourmessage matters.
Your work matters, and the worldneeds to hear what you have to
say.
Marketing isn't just aboutvisibility.
It's about impact.
It's about connecting with theright people in a way that feels
(35:59):
true to you.
Having that network of people,like Athena said, so you keep
showing up and you keep sharingyour brilliance and keep making
more magic in the world.
And hey, if you ever feel stuck,know that you don't have to do
this alone.
We're here to help you turn thatspark into a wildfire.
Until next time, keep sparkingand keep igniting.
Did you know that over 70% of Americans say the
healthcare system is failing tomeet their needs and 64% don't
trust it to prioritize theirwellbeing?
And for doctors who care deeplyabout community health, that
statistic is just completelyfrustrating and it's fuel for a
movement.
I'm your host, Beverly Cornell,founder and fairy godmother of
(00:20):
brand clarity at Wickedlybranded.
And with over 25 years ofexperience, I've helped hundreds
of purpose-driven entrepreneursawaken their brand magic and
boldly bring it to life so theycan magnify their impact on the
world.
And today's guest is a changemaker in every single sense of
the word.
Dr.
Athena Hall is a pediatricianbased in Seattle, and the
(00:40):
founder of ZNA Health Network, apioneering initiative that
connects passionate healthcareadvocacy and shifts the
foundation of care throughcommunity centered action.
Athena, welcome to the show.
Athena (00:52):
Thank you.
I'm happy to be here.
Beverly (00:54):
Change makers and movement makers.
I love it so much.
Athena like how did you go frompediatrician and all the things
to this?
This is a big deal.
We were talked before.
I was like, she is just oneperson trying to make a big,
huge difference in an industryThat's a bit of a elephant.
Talk about the spark that movedto ZNA health network and what
did that look like for you?
Athena (01:14):
Yeah, I was really drawn to global health work from
pretty early on when I was incollege.
So right out of college I spentsome time in Tanzania and then I
did a global health fellowshipafter my residency training.
And during that time it reallyopened my eyes to the problems.
In our healthcare system and inour initiatives where we're
(01:37):
trying to help communities, Isaw that we weren't really
asking them what they need andinstead we were providing them
with help.
And it all came from a goodplace.
But a lot of it was reallymisguided.
The initiatives were notactually aligned with what the
people really needed.
And I saw the harm that theycaused.
I saw how our system is reallyhierarchical and that we were
(01:59):
teaching these communities andthe providers in the hospital to
act in the way that we do in ourhealthcare system, which is to
have experts and kind of elitismof I know what to do for you.
I know what you need.
And creating a sense ofpowerlessness and helplessness
for the patients and making ithard for them to advocate for
(02:21):
what they need.
I also saw the expense of ourhealthcare system, the burden
that had on the community andjust so many of the things were
really getting to me while I wasdoing this work.
So when I came back to thestates, I saw that actually this
is what we're doing in here aswell.
We're not connecting with ourcommunities and asking them what
(02:41):
their need we're doing a onesize fits all healthcare system
and providing them with servicesthat perhaps.
Aren't truly what they areasking for and what they need
and burdening them with hugemedical bills.
Two thirds of bankruptcy casesin the US are due to medical
bills and that's just wild.
We're trying to help people, butwe're actually causing a lot of
(03:05):
harm.
And 80% of our health issues inthe US are actually due to
social and environmentalfactors.
So when we're causing people tobe in debt and creating more
social difficulties for people,this is actually leading to
worse health outcomes.
Beverly (03:24):
Yeah.
The stress of all that can't begood for anyone.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Can you gimme an example of acommunity that has chosen
differently?
What does that look like even?
Athena (03:33):
Yeah, so in Alaska there's a healthcare system
called the NewCo System of Care.
It's run by Alaska Natives.
And 25 years ago they were giventhe opportunity to take over
their own healthcare system.
It used to be Indian HealthServices, which was a federally
run healthcare system.
They had.
Enormous numbers of people thathad mental health and chronic
(03:56):
disease as well as having toutilize the ER so much because
they couldn't get into theirprimary care doctor.
And once they took over theirown healthcare system, they
decided to do everythingcompletely differently.
And they wanted the community tobe part owners in their
healthcare system.
So they call the patients'customer owners and they put
(04:20):
them in the center of theirhealthcare system and they get
to say what services they want,how they want the services to be
provided.
And that has had huge.
Improvements in the ER visits,they have 93% patient
satisfaction, which is unheardof in healthcare, and I think
(04:40):
it's something like 97% employeesatisfaction.
So burnout is so low amongst inthat healthcare system because
there is a sense of purpose andan alignment for with the
services that are provided andwhat people actually need.
Beverly (04:56):
So gimme an example of what people actually need versus
the services that are provided.
Is there an example even inAlaska or in Tanzania where you
were seeing these other servicesshoved down their throats, but
what did they actually need insome of these areas?
Athena (05:10):
Yeah.
So we really are focused onfixing problems after they
happen and putting out fires.
So we invest, I think it's 97%of our healthcare dollars in
these reactive health services.
And only 3% goes towardsprevention.
And what people actually needand what they are wanting is
(05:31):
investment and preventionservices.
And that includes addressingthings like housing food
insecurity transportation, andhaving a safe environment around
them, as well as having accessto a team of people who are
listening to them and helpingthem to live healthy lives.
(05:51):
And in a way that's more of apartnership instead of a parent
telling them what to do.
Beverly (05:56):
I love this so much.
My mom is a nurse and has alwaystaught me to advocate for
myself.
Like even if the doctor sayssomething, you have every right
to question that or ask forsomething different, you know
your body better than anybodyelse.
So don't let somebody justbecause they have a fancy degree
dictate what you think doesn'tfeel right.
And I remember I had injured myhip and they kept wanting to
(06:16):
medicate the pain.
And I kept saying, no, I wantyou to find out what's wrong
with it so we can stop the painfrom there.
And it took me three and a halfyears Athena Wow.
To get to the root of it and tofinally get a MRI with contrast
to realize that my labrum wastorn.
I ended up going to anorthopedic surgeon who dealt
with people paratroopers whojump out of airplanes.
(06:38):
But.
I remember feeling so incrediblyfrustrated at all the tests, and
the only answer was to gimmepain medicine..
But I agree with you so muchlike nutrition and like
meditation and helping in thefront end versus that backend of
reactive medicine is what we'vealways done.
That's very much a western typeof medicine.
I feel like there's a lot ofmoney happening and power and
(07:00):
all those things.
How does Athena go up againstall of that?
Athena (07:04):
I really don't want to go up against all of that.
I think we would lose if wetried to fight it.
I think instead it's reallycoming together everyone who is
passionate about providingquality healthcare for their
communities, working together tooffer something different and
(07:25):
funding that our current systemis collapsing.
Like we had this big, beautifulbill.
I put that in quotes.
Just pass.
And it's going to further deepenour inequities in our country
and we will see more people thatare sick and unable to access
care.
That's just, another huge crackin the system that we have
(07:47):
that's really not working forpeople.
So we need something that we'rebuilding alongside that, that
people can shift over to so thatthey can actually support the
health of not only themselves,but of the people around them.
Beverly (08:02):
If they're making so much money on pharmaceuticals
and things like that, how do youcreate the value for them just
to work with you to createbusiness models in the
healthcare industry?
Athena (08:12):
I think, finding some common ground is important.
Where we are all benefiting in away, but we have to really shift
all of the systems to centerhumans instead of profits.
So the systems, our healthcaresystem is really a myriad of
systems that are all centered onprofits.
And those are collapsing.
(08:35):
I think the pharmaceuticalcompany offers a lot of
bandaids.
It's really not geared towardspreventing disease.
And a lot of those bandaids aresuper important.
A lot of people do need reallyimportant medications but it
needs to shift to reallycentering the people that
they're caring for.
(08:55):
I think that's just gonna be aprocess, but we're not here to
fight against, we're here tofight for.
Beverly (09:02):
Human-centered, people-centered what did you say
that in Alaska?
Yeah, customer owners.
Customer owners.
I love it so much.
Recently, the Canadian PrimeMinister said that he was
traveling the country andtalking to his.
bosses, meaning the people,right?
And this idea of that, we arethe customer, but we certainly
have a voice, and it is ourbodies and our health that's at
(09:22):
stake here.
And there's just so much to it.
It's such a complex thing.
I'm so impressed, Athena, thatthis is something that you want
to go up against.
What has been the biggestchallenge that you've faced so
far?
'cause it's been about a year,right?
That ZNA has existed.
Athena (09:38):
I first started thinking about ZNA, or I call it ZNA.
About two years ago was when Ireally started investing in it
and working on it.
And, ultimately what I want tobe able to do with Cena is to to
offer people adaptablehealthcare models, offer
communities, so that everycommunity can ask for what they
(10:00):
need at different times.
It might be, five years from nowthey need more social workers
and then another five years theyneed more neuroscientists to
research something that's goingon in their community or
whatever it is that they'reasking for.
I think I've run into a lot ofbig challenges.
Becoming an entrepreneur is likehaving a baby and it really
(10:20):
pushes you to grow a lot.
And I'm currently going througha growth process with it and
hitting some walls.
It's challenging but I know whatthat ultimate vision is and
where I'm moving towards, and Idon't know what the path is
gonna look like or the hardshipsthat I'm going to face.
Sure.
But I know I just need to keepmoving forward.
(10:42):
So yeah, currently it's justdifficult to get everyone
together towards a common goal.
I was initially going aftersomething too big, and so I'm
trying to make the steps smallerright now so that we have
smaller steps and small winsthat we can build on before
going after something bigger.
Beverly (11:02):
Yes.
Sometimes it can be the tinieststep, at least it's progress.
Yes.
What is one mindset shift thatyou've had to make, to move from
doctor to founder?
Athena (11:11):
I think as a doctor working in our healthcare
system, you're just at the whimof the system.
And there, I don't have a lot ofsay in the care that I'm
providing because I have to go,with the evidence-based
medicine.
And I work with a team and weall have to be practicing in a
(11:32):
certain way.
And so as a founder, there's alot more nuance, there's a lot
so many different balls in theair and decisions to make, and I
really have to ask for a lotmore help.
And learn a lot of skills that Ididn't have previously.
So it's a mindset shift and nottrying to be this, fiercely
(11:55):
independent woman.
Now I'm really having to ask forhelp and it's very humbling
process.
Beverly (12:00):
I think, doctors are the most highly educated people
in the world, right?
You go to school for a very longtime and you are highly
respected.
You have a title that suggestsas such, and then you go to
founder and you're like yeah,this is not what I learned.
This is something completelydifferent.
It's almost like a differentlanguage, which part of it has
been the hardest, do you thinkis it accounting?
(12:20):
Is it marketing?
Is it operations?
Athena (12:23):
All of the above.
Yeah.
I have no business background.
So I've, taken a crash coursehad business coaches help me to
understand marketing as well asthe financial side.
So those things have been reallychallenging and perhaps not my
strong suit.
I think my strength lies inbringing people together,
(12:45):
connecting as well as being avisionary.
And the skills are important tolearn, but I want to, at some
point, be able to shift thoseover to people that are really
strong in those skills.
Beverly (12:58):
I know the awareness of the things that we don't do
well, the humbling of ourskillset.
And being able to offload those,whether it's through automation
or through partners or whateverthat looks like for a business
owner, is something that I feellike so many entrepreneurs, so
many business people have feltfrom the very beginning.
And if you're a listener rightnow, and you've felt this to
(13:19):
your core where you're like,it's so humbling having to
figure this all out, you'reprobably not alone.
And I would love it if you'dshare this episode with someone
who you know is struggling to doall the things, because this is
something that we so often seeand you are not alone.
And there are so many that arestruggling, just like Athena and
I struggle.
I'm in a place now where i'vebeen able to offload some of
(13:39):
that stuff.
But that's such a ongoingprocess, not only in, like you
said, from your confidence tohumbling and asking for help,
but also this idea of no one'sgonna do it like I would do it.
So the trust aspect of it.
There's so much to that processas a business owner that is
like, how do I clone myself?
So if you're feeling that, thenyou're in the right place.
(14:01):
And I'm so grateful that you'rehere today and maybe you could
share this with someone else whoyou know, is in the same boat,
just trying to figure it allout.
Yeah.
So this whole season's aboutconfidence, Athena, it's all
about what does it look like forbusiness owners and is there a
moment that kind of like itshows up stronger than others?
I gotta believe like probably inthe pediatric office, you are
like.
(14:22):
Awesome.
And you've got this thingcovered and all the things.
How does confidence show up foryou as a business owner though?
Athena (14:27):
Yeah, it comes up for me in asking for help knowing what
it is that I need help with andbeing able to ask for that.
That's been a growth edge for meand something that I'm growing
my confidence in because as Isee things growing and people
taking on different tasks, itgives me a sense of confidence
(14:48):
in we're going somewhere.
I'm doing something and insteadof putting it all on my
shoulders and barely takingsteps forward because it's just
too much, yeah.
And then I'm also workingtowards being a public speaker
so that I can bring people intothe network as well as shift
people's perspectives on what'spossible in healthcare.
(15:10):
So many people think their modelfor what's possible is based on
the system that we already have.
But we can do things completelydifferently and totally
reimagine it.
So as I am working towardsgetting on stage, that's also
building my confidence in mybusiness of I can do this, I can
speak about this clearly, andhave a clear message and and
(15:31):
bring people into to what we'redoing.
Beverly (15:33):
That clarity of message, that clarity of
purpose, that's so key.
But speaking on a stage is notfor the weak of heart.
Athena (15:40):
Something I Never thought I would do.
Beverly (15:42):
Kids can be a tough crowd, so I feel like you've
been tested.
Yeah.
So I know you've been usingLinkedIn'cause we've connected
through LinkedIn and you're alsodoing lives and you're doing
some personalized posts toengage your community.
Why do you think thosestrategies are working so well
for you?
Athena (15:57):
LinkedIn is a space where a lot of professionals,
especially in healthcare, aretalking about the problems in
our healthcare system.
And they're looking forsolutions and looking for those
networks and connections.
So that's a great space for meto be talking about everything.
I'm learning to be more and moreauthentic as I go with it.
(16:19):
In the beginning I was like, Ihave to be polished and
professional and be this certainway.
And as I'm letting go of that,more people are coming.
Cause they're seeing more of whoI am and that's what's gonna
bring people in.
Beverly (16:32):
I really want my listeners to hear this.
What Athena is saying is thatshe thought she had to be
perfect as a recoveringperfectionist.
I feel it in my bones thatinitially when I started, I
thought I had to be perfect too.
But what I have learned is whenI just show up as me chatting,
like I'm having coffee withsomebody or whatever, that's
when I resonate the most andconnect the most with you guys,
(16:53):
the listeners, as well as myclients.
And that being so polished andperfect is actually something
that people can see right awaythat you're fake or that you're
not genuine, or that there'sjust something too perfect about
the person.
So when you are real, when youshare yourself in that way as
scary and vulnerable, I'm sureas it is for you, Athena.
(17:14):
That is where.
The magic really happens andpeople will connect far more to
you and who you are.
So kudos for you, despite howhard it is for you yeah, to do
it.
But showing up exactly as you iswhat the world needs.
The world needs more of justgenuine, authentic relationships
and purposes and passions andIt's a hard lesson that I
(17:35):
continue to struggle with.
Like will people get it?
Will they like all the things,right?
We have all this doubt aroundit.
So many solopreneurs andentrepreneurs struggle with, I
call them the flying monkeys ofperfectionism, self-doubt, and
imposter syndrome.
And I literally visualize when Istart to doubt something, like
batting it away like it's amonkey, right?
(17:55):
This is not gonna get in my wayof what my purpose is in this
world.
So just know, like you are notalone in that Athena.
And if you're listening, youfeel that, I wanna hear it, tag
me.
Tell me that you're feeling thatway, because I think there's
power in numbers of people whounderstand what you're going
through.
Athena (18:11):
Yeah.
I've been absolutely crushed byself-doubt and through this
journey.
And I've had to just be like,you know what?
I'm just gonna keep movingtowards my purpose.
For whatever reason, this iswhat lights me up and this is
where I'm heading towards.
And it's scary, but that meansit's important to me.
And yeah, I still, experiencethat self-doubt.
(18:32):
It comes in and I try to not letit push me all the way down.
I just have to acknowledge itand move forward.
Beverly (18:41):
You didn't choose a small little process.
Yeah.
That was one of the biggest tochoose.
So you're gonna have to fortifyyourself with your support
people.
Your family, your friends, tokeep you motivated.
I am certainly cheering you on,I think I told you that last
time, is that I believe in whatyou're doing.
It's so important and sopowerful.
I just I feel a littleoverwhelmed by the whole process
(19:01):
just thinking about it, I lovethat there's someone who wants
to dig in and really make adifference in that way.
So literally.
Kudos to you.
And if you're listening and youwanna help support Athena by
sharing this episode, by givinga review, by subscribing, that
will help her message get outfurther and help make more
ripples for her please do thatbecause we need more people to
(19:24):
speak about change in a waythat's beneficial for the human,
the people in our country and inthe world.
If I could just give you alittle boost, I would.
I am super impressed by the taskyou have at hand.
Athena (19:36):
ZNA is all about bringing people together from
different perspectives,different areas.
It's not just healthcareworkers.
It can be, somebody out in thecommunity who owns a daycare or
who teaches meditation as wellas people in healthcare.
It's so important, if you'refeeling called to support
(19:59):
something like this, to offeryour perspective and just see
how you can help out.
Because we need to listen toyou, we need to hear what you
have to say, and your skills andknowledge is incredibly
important.
Beverly (20:13):
What's the biggest question people ask you?
What is the thing they alwaysask you?
They always wanna know moreabout what,
Athena (20:17):
They often wanna know what ZNA is about.
They wanna know why I started itI actually met somebody named
Zena, a woman, and I wasstruggling at that point to
figure out the name'cause it wasoriginally transforming
healthcare.
And I was, it was too generic.
Yeah.
So I was spending months tryingto figure this out and I met
this woman and I was like,that's it, that's the name.
(20:38):
It's ZNA.
But I wanted it to be ZNA, sothat it's like the future DNA of
our people so that we can passdown like a legendary healthcare
system and shift the health ofpeople for generations to come.
Beverly (20:53):
I love that the DNA ZNA.
So if you could say one thing tomaybe inspire somebody to be
involved, what would it be?
What is the thing that shouldcompel them to be part of this
movement?
Athena (21:03):
Yeah.
I think that their perspectiveand their experience and
knowledge matters and can have ahuge impact on the health and
lives of themselves, theirfamilies, as well as the people
around them.
And so if they're involved, theycan really magnify or amplify
(21:24):
their impact and put theirskills towards something that
is, really helping themselvesand the people around them as
well as future generations.
Beverly (21:33):
Yeah, for sure.
Advocating not only forthemselves, but for all the
people you hear talking abouttheir health problems and
challenges and what you witnessevery day.
Athena (21:42):
Yeah.
I think too, as humans, we havea longing to contribute to
people around us.
We have a value in our countryof individualism, but we see so
many people struggling withisolation and loneliness and
having to do things all on theirown.
And it's really not healthy forhumans.
And we've seen isolation is, hasa huge negative impact on our
(22:04):
health.
So to be able to contribute andto connect with others is
something that will fulfill youand will improve your life in a
big way.
Beverly (22:14):
Yeah, for sure.
I think when we give, we get somuch, there's something so
powerful in that.
Yes.
Exchange.
Like you don't even realize whatyou get when you give fully,
when you give withoutexpectation.
It's a whole different level
Athena (22:28):
and it's not transactional.
It's not a one-to-one thing.
You're just giving, and it maycome back to you at some point
in a different way.
But what matters is how it makesyou feel and how it fuels you.
Beverly (22:40):
Yeah.
And it's one of the things thatI think, I don't know if I think
it, I probably know it, but isthe idea that we all need to be
part of something bigger thanourselves?
Athena (22:48):
Yes.
Beverly (22:49):
And, I think having that grounds us in a way that
nothing else can, in some ways,like nothing else can do that.
Yeah.
I've always been veryoptimistic, altruistic.
Probably a little naive towanting to save the world and
all the things.
Athena (23:02):
I relate.
Beverly (23:03):
But I've also had, I think like you had some
experiences where it's no, youcan't, and you're only one
person and getting everyone elseto behave has not always been
easy.
So this Particular section's allabout the magic hat.
There are a lot of questions inthe magic hat.
Okay.
And I let the magic hat decidewhat's gonna come out of it.
So the first question is, oh,that's a hard one for you, but
(23:24):
what was the moment you realizedyour business was successful?
Athena (23:28):
Yeah, I would say we launched in January and I had
gathered at that point a coreteam to help me to build ZNA.
And just seeing how many peoplewere.
Rallying around it, that to me,was like, okay, we can do this.
I know I can't do it by myself.
(23:48):
Yeah.
And there are people who believein this and who want to be part
of it.
Beverly (23:52):
Yeah.
Everybody needs supporters.
One of the things I often ask mylisteners to do is if somebody
has inspired you or somehow aaffected you to please let them
know.
Because people need affirmationsto know that they're continuing
the work, do the work that theydo.
So often we take it for grantedthat the work that people are
doing is just happening, but ifthey've somehow possibly
(24:12):
affected you in some way youneed to lift them up so that
they can continue to do thework.
Yeah.
So you talked about self-doubt,but have you ever thought about
quitting and what pulled youback?
Athena (24:21):
Actually over the last month I had been struggling
with, and I told you, all thesedoubts were crushing me.
The core team is disintegratedin a way because of the
initiative I was trying to dowas too big and we weren't
moving forward.
And I was like, maybe I'm justgonna forget all of this, let
the healthcare do its thing andjust dance.
I have two big things that I'mmoving towards, but I went on a
(24:46):
backpacking trip for a week andjust spent a time in nature and
really just got away from all ofthe frenetic energy and.
Reconnected with where I'm goingand why I am doing it.
And prior to that I was reallytrying to grasp at like, why am
I doing this?
What am I doing this for?
And It was a lot of mentalanalysis, but spending time in
(25:09):
nature helped me just toreconnect to it from a different
space.
And it really helped to launchme forward again.
I was like, I just need to takesmaller bites.
Let's do this smaller thingtogether.
And so now we're gatheringmomentum again.
But I did have a moment of maybeI wanna quit.
Beverly (25:27):
I think almost every entrepreneur has said I might
need to just put this towel inand just say, I'm done.
This is not what I need to do.
Athena (25:33):
But I know If I died, in 10 years or whenever it is, I
would be heartbroken that Ididn't move towards this.
It's just something that, itfeels, it's a part of me.
Beverly (25:44):
I keep going back to that.
Your purpose and your why is thefuel for everything.
We help a lot of entrepreneursget to that.
We joke that we're marketingtherapists, right?
But that's really what you haveto get to is that ultimate
vision and the legacy that youwant to see to fuel everything
and get you through.
And I think having thatawareness of if I were not to do
this, I would so regret it.
Athena (26:05):
Yeah.
Beverly (26:05):
Tell us about a time when you had to pivot and what
did you learn?
Athena (26:08):
I first launched ZNA last year and I I hadn't really
gathered enough support yet.
I wasn't posting regularly onLinkedIn.
Not many people knew what I wasdoing.
And I was down on myself for alittle bit after, it wasn't
going anywhere.
And I was like, you know what?
I just, I need to pivot intofocusing on building support
(26:31):
first and then launching it.
Yeah.
Beverly (26:33):
Every single quote unquote, failure is a learning
opportunity.
And if you don't learn, thenyou'll keep making those
mistakes or you'll preventyourself from growing.
So I love that you took it as anopportunity to be like, okay.
What do I do next?
And if it's not feeling right,like in your bones, in your
soul, in your intuition, thenit's time to shift something.
So what is something in ZNA thatbrings you pure joy?
Athena (26:55):
It brings me pure joy to just to connect with people who
want to be part of the changeand to feel our collective.
Excitement and momentum.
That just brings me a lot of joybecause when humans come
together and they have a sharedpurpose, it's incredible what is
possible.
(27:16):
And that really excites me.
Just to see everybody lightingup and feeling like they're
working towards something andgonna make an impact.
Beverly (27:24):
So good.
I love the idea of humans comingtogether and, as an individual
you can do something, but as acollective you can do so much
more.
One of our core values is fusionbecause.
Individually, you're powerful,but together you create an
explosion.
Yeah.
Athena (27:40):
I love that.
I've never heard of that as acore value.
I really like it.
Beverly (27:42):
Oh yeah.
It's one of our core values.
Another one is dynamic.
'cause we're always like,adjusting and changing and like
tools in our business change allthe time.
It's marketing and social mediaalgorithms change, so we can
never be complacent.
We have to be dynamic.
And then honor is the other one,which I think honor to
ourselves, honor to each other,honor to our client that also
incorporates honesty andintegrity.
(28:03):
But it's more than that.
It's how you show up in theworld.
Walk with honor is a wholedifferent feeling than just
integrity.
So I do have a magical wand.
Oh, okay.
And the wand helps us go intothe future.
And into the past.
So I'm gonna wave the wand andwe're gonna go in the past and
we're gonna talk to Athena whenshe just graduates from high
(28:24):
school.
Athena (28:25):
Oh, wow.
Beverly (28:26):
And we're gonna give her a piece of advice.
So what advice would we giveher?
Athena (28:30):
Wow.
I experienced reallydebilitating social anxiety when
I was in high school and it was,I think in 10th grade, that I
decided that I wasn't gonna dealwith that anymore or let it stop
me.
And so I started being more of achameleon and I was voted most
transformed.
(28:50):
I developed some skills and howto navigate my social
environment without being soisolated.
But underneath it all, I wasstill experiencing incredible
social anxiety.
And so I would tell her that itreally doesn't matter what
everyone is thinking and howthey're perceiving me that I'm a
beautiful human and we all haveunique gifts, and if I just let
(29:13):
that shine, people will come tome that are meant for me and
people that aren't meant for mewill be repelled by me, and
that's okay.
Beverly (29:21):
Oh, such good advice.
You have all this passion, butthis anxiety it is like keeping
you back.
What were some of the tools thatyou used to get past it?
What did you learn?
Athena (29:30):
Yeah.
I saw a counselor on my collegecampus who helped me, gave me
some tools to deal with theanxiety and to see the thoughts
for what they were.
That helped some.
But overall, like what has beenhuge is my healing journey over
the last six years.
Just like confronting all of myfeelings and being with them and
(29:53):
processing.
As I've done that, I've justgrown stronger and integrated
all this stuff.
Yeah.
Beverly (29:58):
It's not easy work though, no.
I have some anxiety and mytherapist calls it my Jenga
tower of trauma that I have tolike work through.
And I call that the elephant,like I have to go through it
piece by piece.
I can't just dive into theelephant.
I have to actually go throughevery single piece of it.
Athena (30:15):
Yeah.
And you think, Hey, I wentthrough this piece, but here it
is again.
Beverly (30:20):
Oh, that's where I'm at.
I went through all of it andthen I got married and had kids
and like that triggers in a waythat I never thought.
Yeah, it's a whole thing.
Plus you add on hormones of likeperimenopause and all other
things and oh wow.
I was recently diagnosed with ADHD and I'm actually AuDHD, so
oh, that makes so much sense nowthat I reacted the way I reacted
(30:40):
as a kid.
It's very complex.
The human experience is verycomplex.
It's such a good gift you'regiving yourself to do it, to
allow yourself to have thefreedom from some of that stuff
so you're not carrying it withyou all the time.
'cause it can get real heavy,real fast.
So, What Would Young Athena,18-year-old Athena, if she could
see you now, what would she sayto you?
Athena (30:59):
She would say I'm a really rad person.
She'd be like, whoa.
Because I started traveling soonafter that and really becoming
adventurous and wanting toexplore the world and my mind
was opening.
So when I was 18 though, myworld was pretty limited and
yeah.
So I think she would just beastonished with who I am now and
(31:20):
how dynamic I am.
Beverly (31:21):
She'd be proud, right?
Athena (31:22):
Yeah, absolutely.
Beverly (31:23):
So when you're feeling like you wanna give up, think of
her too, right?
Think of her like, oh yeah, yougot this.
Look how far you've come.
Yeah.
Have her be your little voice inyour head.
Yeah.
So I'm gonna wave the wand andI'm gonna take you way into the
future.
And you alluded to this a littlebit in the interview, but what
do you want people to remembermost about working with you if
you were to pass, what is thething that you want them to
(31:44):
remember about you?
Athena (31:45):
Oh, I love this.
I would want them to rememberthat I'm somebody who helped
them to just be fully expressed,to feel like who they are
matters, what they have to offermatters and that they can create
change in their world and be apart of something bigger.
Beverly (32:05):
So at your eulogy, someone's gonna give that eulogy
of you, Athena, and they'regonna talk about all these
amazing things that you've done.
What do you think will be yourmost significant legacy or
impact?
Athena (32:15):
I think my most significant legacy will be that
I have given people and systemsthe opportunity to return to
nature, to return to what'shealthy.
So I have opened doors andencouraged and inspired people
(32:37):
and our healthcare system toshift into something that is
truly supportive, that ishealthy, and that is impactful.
Beverly (32:46):
So I'm gonna wave us back into the present.
This season's all aboutconfidence.
So this is the magical tip.
As small business owners oraspiring entrepreneurs, for
those tuning in today, what isone tip you'd give to those who
are trying to build moreconfidence in how they show up
to run their business?
Athena (33:03):
I would tell them to really lean on the people around
them.
And see what gifts you have,where your strengths lie, really
lean hard into those and leaninto the people around you to
support you in the areas thatyou struggle in.
We can't be perfect.
We can't be everything.
We all have our gaps.
(33:23):
And I think it helps so much inbuilding your confidence to
recognize where your strengthsare and where you need help.
Beverly (33:31):
Yeah.
I say confidence is built, it'snot natural.
Yeah.
You have to over and over againbuild it and have those
successes and put yourself insituations like public speaking
or whatever that kind of pushyou outside of that.
And the more you do it, the moreit's built and the stronger the
muscle gets and it just becomessomething so much more than you
even possibly could imagine.
Athena (33:53):
Yeah, that's another thing that I've done to build my
confidence is to throw my hatover the wall of like, all
right, so I booked a speakingevent.
This is happening.
I don't feel ready, but I haveto get ready.
And just having that challenge,it's something that's possible.
It's not overwhelming but it'sscary.
(34:16):
Yeah.
Beverly (34:16):
Throwing the hat over the wall is like half the
battle.
And then once you have the date,now you have to figure out all
the things to get there.
Even if it's not perfect, it'sgoing to get you one step closer
to being better.
So throw your hat over the wallpeople.
Let's go.
If his episode has sparkedsomething in you.
Maybe you're gonna throw yourhat over the wall.
Maybe you're gonna go book thattalk.
You're gonna go do something youhaven't had the gumption to do
(34:39):
before.
Take a minute and leave us areview and let us know if we've
helped you move that forward.
That's super helpful for us.
So Athena.
I want you to share with ourlisteners where they can learn
more about you and ZNA and howthey can get involved.
Athena (34:52):
Yeah, you can find me on LinkedIn at Athena Lorin Hall.
So Lorin is L-O-R-I-N and youcan also find ZNA on
www.znahealthnetwork.com.
Love it.
Yeah, and there's a button thereto say, join the movement and
you can join for free and seewhat we're all about.
Beverly (35:14):
Wonderful.
And from one curly haired girlto another.
I'm so glad that you've come andstopped by today on the podcast,
and this has been an incredibleconversation, sharing your
wisdom, your journey, yourvulnerability, and your magic
with us.
I know our listeners are gonnawalk away feeling far more
inspired and ready to takeaction.
I'm so grateful for your time,for the impact that you are
making on the world.
(35:35):
Kudos to you.
Athena (35:36):
Thank you so much, Beverly.
This has been wonderful.
Beverly (35:38):
For those of you who are listening, I hope you
enjoyed this incredibleconversation, and I hope it lit
a little bit of a fire in youand gave you new ideas, and most
of all, inspired you to takeaction.
Because here's the thing, yourmessage matters.
Your work matters, and the worldneeds to hear what you have to
say.
Marketing isn't just aboutvisibility.
It's about impact.
It's about connecting with theright people in a way that feels
(35:59):
true to you.
Having that network of people,like Athena said, so you keep
showing up and you keep sharingyour brilliance and keep making
more magic in the world.
And hey, if you ever feel stuck,know that you don't have to do
this alone.
We're here to help you turn thatspark into a wildfire.
Until next time, keep sparkingand keep igniting.
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