Fighting Climate Change in the Age of AI/Dan Kalafatas - Prices, Scope 3, Green-Hushing ~ Spark of Ages Ep 52 - Spark of Ages

Episode Transcript
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Dan Kalafatas (00:00):
We've got a terrible conundrum here when it
comes to AI, climate change,affordability, and power
sufficiency all bundled togetherin one moment in our society.
What we're talking about is awartime mobilization that's
necessary.
Go back to everything you'veall read about World War II and
what was required to pull thatoff.

(00:20):
This is a trillion-dollardesign problem that is
addressable in a generation.

Rajiv Parikh (00:30):
Welcome to the Spark of Ages podcast.
Today we're joined by DanKalafatas, the chairman and
co-founder of Three Degrees, aleading global decarbonization
solutions provider that hasspent nearly two decades
building the scalable systemsnecessary for businesses to
tackle the existential threat ofclimate change.
Dan is a true pioneer in theclimate solutions space.

(00:51):
Under his leadership and thework of many others, 3Degrees
has grown from a small NorthAmerican-focused renewable
energy commodity business to acompany with 300 employees,
approximately a billion dollarsin revenue, and is regarded for
its pathbreaking work in climatemarkets.
3Deges is also a proudlycertified B Corp, a commitment

(01:12):
Dan notes they embraced earlyon, saying that they were a B
Corp before there was a B Corp.
Dan's core philosophy is drivenby a passion for environmental
stewardship combined withexceptional analytical ability.
Dan is also a proud alum ofDartmouth College and the
Stanford Graduate School ofBusiness.
Some of the key takeaways youcan expect from this episode:
how we power demand growth fromthe AI data center boom, dealing

(01:36):
with the uncertainties in therenewable energy business,
building an amazing businessfrom the ground up, and finally,
how Dan and three degrees areapproaching their use of AI.
So, Dan, welcome to the Sparkof Ages.

Great to be here, Rajiv.
Really great to be here.

I have known Dan for quite some time.
I've gotten to see yourbusiness evolve, but your
purpose has never changed.
Your purpose has always been tomake a huge difference in the
world, but it's come anincredible long way.
And in this session, we'regoing to spend a little more
time on the whole notion of AIand power.
And it's a kitchen table issuein the recent election.

(02:13):
It's why the New Jerseygovernor won because of
affordability rates rising, muchof which folks attribute to the
rising use of AI and its impacton utility rates.
But at the same time, even withall the amazing cost reductions
in renewable energy and all thegrowth in installations, we've
emitted 38.1 billion tons ofcarbon dioxide, which is about a

(02:35):
percent greater than last year.
So folks are still burning oil,gas, and coal.
And so all these are thingsthat would be great things to
talk about.

Yeah, look forward to it.

Let's dig in.
All right.
So we'll go to AI right away.
Applying Jevon's paradox toenergy means that improvements
in energy efficiency often leadto increased overall energy
consumption, right?
So since AI demand forcomputing power is increasing
approximately fourfold annually,it's far outpacing efficiency
improvements.
Are corporate commitments toefficiency and carbon-free

(03:06):
emissions simply masking acontinuous exponential increase
in demand that ultimately drivesup global greenhouse gas
emissions?

We've got a terrible conundrum here when it
comes to AI, climate change,affordability, and power
sufficiency all bundled togetherin one moment in our society.
Even if you take AI out of it,an energy transition, even at
current levels of demand, islike changing multiple engines
on a jet plane while it'sflying.
You bring on top of that trulyunprecedented demand, but I'll

(03:35):
get into your demand questionhere in a second.
To evidence the point, I wasjust talking.
We're here in NorthernCalifornia.
I was just talking with someonefrom PGE.
Their peak capacity in thisregion is 20 gigawatts.
Gigawatts a whole bunch ofpower.
Don't really worry about whatthat is, but just focus on the
word 20.
Over the next five years, theyexpect new data centers and new

(03:55):
demand at 10 to that.
That's a 50% expansion in peakcapacity need in an environment
where in the United States, moreor less, we've had flat demand
for 40 years.

They're not thinking about that kind of
infrastructure build, right?
I mean, in terms of plants, interms of transmission capacity,
that's just not been part oftheir playbook.

Exactly.
What we're talking about is awartime mobilization that's
necessary.
Go back to everything you'veall read about World War II and
what was required to pull thatoff.
And to your point, on thedemand front, you know, my view,
and I'm not an expert on AIapplications, but my view is the
world's focused so much on thebleeding edge large language

(04:38):
models.
And there's this thing calledsmall language models that
aren't being deployed, as Iunderstand, a great, great need.
And even if the power is thereto supply the large models, and
as the cost of compute of thosecomes down, I agree.
This is basic economics.
The class I took is the firstyear at Dartmouth, quantity is
going to go way up.
We're going to have uh smalllanguage models and coffee

(05:00):
makers.
And I think aggregate demand isjust going to scale and scale
and scale.

That's amazing.
Yeah.
So it's going to scale, it'sgoing to grow.
And as it gets cheaper to getcompute, they use a lot more
energy than we can ever imagine.
And so this is just putting alot of stress on the system.
So OpenAI CEO Sam Altman statedthat AI will need, as we were
talking about, 200 gigawatts ofcompute capacity by 2033, which

(05:25):
is roughly one-third of the peakpower consumption in the entire
United States.
So, given projections that theUS needs to build between 70 and
130 gigawatts of power capacityin the next five years, stay
competitive in AI, how can theenergy sector possibly meet this
unprecedented demand withoutcompromising existing
environmental goals?

Okay, so Rajiv, you know that I'm an optimist.
Constitutionally, I'm anoptimist and have been my whole
life.
And I am very concerned thatwe're not going to be able to
deliver the power that'snecessary.
And there's this really funnyconundrum that's happening right
now, where the AI community issaying, are they going to be
able to deliver the power?
And the power community isasking the same question, is

(06:06):
this real?
Because we're talking about amassive infrastructure, massive
capital deployment in place.
And there's a lot of questionsabout that.
I think it is very likely thatthere's a 50% miss on the power
available for AI.
And I think the public equitymarkets and all these firms are
assuming perfection.
And I'll be honest, the tone Iget from institutional investors

(06:29):
that I talk to, the venturecommunity friends of both of
ours here in the area, is oh,the power issue is a problem.
We'll put some people on it,we'll hack our way through,
fusion's coming, we're all good.
That's kind of the nature ofthe conversation.

There's like at least in the Bay Area, right?
There was a recent Bloombergreport, right?
That there's two data centersthat have been built that are
have been literally been sittingthere for a couple of years.
Because at least in the likeyou were talking about, you're
talking to PG and E, they're notable to connect power to them.

Yeah.

You have that, and then you have the desire for
companies, that's why they callthree degrees, to do this in a
carbon-free manner.
So, how do these things worktogether?

So it is possible.
What we need is an all theabove strategy of wartime
mobilization, as I mentionedbefore.
And you can pair solar and windand rapidly emerging battery
technology with some natural gasto provide firm solutions at
these kinds of scales.
But you need all of those.
And the current politicalenvironment, it's pretty well

(07:31):
documented, is delivering awhole of you know federal
government attacked on solar andwind, which is the cheapest,
even without subsidies and thefastest to deploy technology.
So one of the things we need inthe United States is that all
the above approach that embracesnuclear fission,
recommissioning of nuclear powerplants, geothermal.
And I should be clearpolitically, I think the work

(07:53):
that's happening on supportingfirm, consistent power sources
and particularly carbon-freesources is excellent, as well as
reform of the transmissionsystem, the fermenting system,
the interconnection cubes.
All these things providemassive friction that I think
many in the AI sector don'tfully appreciate when it takes
to bring these on board.
It's possible, but what'shappening right now is a ton of

(08:15):
natural gas demand that's comingonline.
It's pretty broadly documented,a five to seven year wait list
for natural gas turbines in theUnited States.
So there's some real risk thatwe're gonna be losing our
ability to execute ondecarbonization of this country
as a result of an attempt to bedominant on AI.
And I don't think the power isgoing to be there for us to be

(08:35):
dominant.
So I think we need somechanges.

Okay, so there's potential, you know, one of our
guests previously, BrettKugelmas, talked about the
notion of small module nuclear,but that he was mostly looking
at doing that overseas becausethe regulatory environment
wasn't there for him.
Now, of course, that was duringprevious administration.
Maybe things have changed, butit doesn't move that fast,
right?
It's so natural gas is probablythe way things will move,

(09:00):
unless yeah.

So I'm optimistic about recommissioned nuclear
fission plants.
That's the kind of energy thatwhen we think of nuclear energy
that we deploy.
I think there will be some newconstruction of large scale and
the small modular fissionplants.
I think fusion will be here.
The very first pilots, though,are gonna happen at best late
this decade.
And for kind of anything closeto scale deployment, that's next

(09:24):
year.
And so we've got this holeright now.
This there's a whole bunch ofsolar wind and battery projects
that are coming on right nowover the next year.
But between then and say 2032,a critical period for AI
development.
Critical.
And I want our country to bedominant on this front.
We're running into real powersufficiency issue.

(09:44):
So I encourage people to leanin and vote their reality there.
And beyond sufficiency, youknow, you raise one of the
conundrums of the moment isinflationary pressure on you
know a huge fraction of thiscountry and power is delivering.

Yeah, maybe you could explain some of that.
Like just help us understandwhy is putting an AI data center
going to affect my utilityrates?
You guys have thesophistication of understanding
these notion of power purchasecontracts.
And when you put up something,you own it at a certain rate,
and then you have another rateset aside, maybe for consumers,
but it seems like one is hurtingthe other.

(10:18):
Is that correlation real or isit?

Yeah, yeah.
So you've got counterveilingfactors.
On the one hand, there are alot of fixed costs in a utility
system.
And if you can sell morevolume, a new big data center
comes online, then you canamortize that fixed costs over a
broad base and reduce therequirement for any given sale.
So put some downward pressureon things.
On the other hand, there's sucha rush to power that power

(10:40):
prices are being competedupwards.
And so let's say the datacenter companies grab the lower
cost most quickly to deployresources, the rest of the power
system still needs to buypower.
And there's a kind of astalkout environment, literally
down to electricians andhardware goes into all of this.

(11:01):
This is why I go back towartime mobilization.
And so, what happens whenyou've got supply chain
constraints?
Price goes up, and so the restof the system will have to buy
higher power prices.

So there's not a situation where, oh, I'm putting
my data center in, and then aspart of the deal, the utility
can say, Well, I've alreadylocked this much power for my
consumers.
You have to get incremental.
They can actually go in and getthe low cost power.

Yeah.
So on the one hand, there's alot of efforts by utilities,
utility commissioners, energycommissions around the country
to focus the incremental costson the data center companies.
To the extent the direct costsof bringing the data center
online aren't fully allocated,then that cost gets borne.
But even in the scenario whereit is fully done, we also have

(11:48):
power demand increases aroundthe country in general.
We're electrifying all kinds ofthings.
You drive an electric vehicle.

I do.

And more and more people are doing that.
We're electrifying homes.
We're growing the GDP.
You know, God bless America.
All of these things requiremore power.
So more power needs to getpurchased.
And what I was driving at asecond ago was like acquiring
that at a reasonable price isincreasingly difficult.
The thing I'll also noticerelated to these dynamics is
that you have popular unrestaround power prices here at the

(12:17):
very beginning of thisbuild-out.
Imagine what it's going to belike two and three years from
now.
This is a really seriousproblem.
This is a real issue thatlegislatures, utility
commissions, and governors arewrestling with right now.

It's like a who pays situation.
Exactly.

And the fact that I'm saying things like
legislatures and governors andso forth, it speaks to the
friction that's involved withthe changes that have to be made
to approve new power supplythat's going to slow the
development of AI in thiscountry.

So if energy capacity and grid interconnects
now define the timeline for AIdeployment, leading some
companies to seek locations withabundant low emission power,
like hydropower in Norway orAustralia, right?
They're prioritizing renewableenergy-backed operations.
So when a major tech company ormajor tech firms commit to
international clean energylocations, how can they ensure

(13:05):
this results in the notion ofadditionality, which is driving
the construction of new greenenergy infrastructure?
And maybe you could explainfirst what additionality is
first and then go into that.

Yeah, it's leading to new generation, not
contracting for existinggeneration.
And you added the green powerelement.
So new from clean sources.
Perhaps we're talkingcarbon-free sources here to
invoke nuclear and hydro and soforth.
So at some level, because we'retalking about a power system
that's growing so much,everything's additional.

(13:35):
In reality, what's happening isa lot of the data center
companies are going out, say onthe nuclear fission front and
grabbing nuclear supplies thatwere socialized in the past.
In addition, you do have,especially outside the US, rapid
deployment of solar and wind tomeet the moment.
And outside the US, much moremoderate demand increases.
Like take Europe, you know,we're talking about 5% demand

(13:58):
growth over a set of years.
And that's reasonable, that'smanageable, that can be handled
with solar and wind and storageand other emerging technology.
So it's much easier to attend.
The big issue in the UnitedStates is the pace of change and
not having an all of the aboveapproach to the solution.

I remember during the time of the big
infrastructure bill or theinflation reduction act, right?
Where they were encouragingsignificant renewable energy
build-out, right?
And then some of that was, ofcourse, taken back in this
latest bill.
But Joe Manchin at the time wastalking about speeding up
reform of permitting.
Is that happening?
I know the build-in pass or hisbuild-in pass.

So it is, and I think the White House deserves a
lot of credit for leaning intothis.
They're advanced, it's a bitcontroversial, but reform around
at the FERC level around datacenter approvals related to
transmission lines.
You see it at the state levelhere in California.
There's been great reforms torapidly deploy renewables.
They're AI businesses.
Jarmett's just launchedsomething that allows permitting

(14:57):
for offshore wind at a muchmore rapid pace.
And there's a whole bunch ofstartups, as you can imagine,
startups on AI around everyapplication higher.
And so there's some here.
So those are definitelyimportant reforms.
They'd be important whether ornot the AI demand inflection was
happening right now.
And they're ultimately a goodthing for the conundrum that we
have here, though they bring upother issues as well.

(15:18):
There's a lot of peopleconcerned about localized
impacts on water.

You need water for cooling, right?
These centers, and you needwater in general, right?
In California, water is a bigproblem.
Or if climate change, water hasbecome a huge issue just around
the country, right?
And especially in the West.
So is that something you guysdeal with?

We companies in the grand scheme, even though
we're a billion revenue with thegrand scheme of things, we're
still a small company.
So we focused on energy.
But a ton of people, humaningenuity, hard at work on water
and pooling systems and soforth.
And I'm really encouraged bythe innovations that are
happening there and gettingscaled.
I think that's one of the realupsides to the AI bonus, it's
bringing um high relief to thosekinds of things.

(15:54):
But there's serious issues.
And so this is another areawhere it needs to be political
engagement to assure that thesolutions are fair and equitable
and empowering our economy offof the future.

It's amazing.
So we'll go back to some ofthese AI factories.
So with the capital raising forAI factories reaching
unprecedented scale, right?
There's a $500 billion Stargateproject.
Debt financing risks locking usinto long-term fossil fuel
reliance, particularly giventhat natural gas is expected to
power some major planned sites.
So, Dan, as a leader in climateadvisory, what contractual or

(16:30):
government's measures, such ashigher interest rates,
accelerated repayment clauses,guaranteed renewable-only power
purchase agreements, do youthink should be tied to private
credit and debt instruments forAI infrastructure to prevent
stranded fossil fuel assets 10to 15 years down the line?
How can financial governanceproactively address this?

Yeah, that I you're really putting your
finger on a super importantissue.
And it's not just a fossil fuelissue.
We're talking aboutinfrastructure on the renewable
energy side for solar and wind,you need to ensure that the
demand's going to be thereregardless.
And a lot of this is beingbuilt on the assumption that
demand opts in the future.
And so that goes back to what Isaid early in this
conversation, which is the powersector is a little wary of

(17:12):
whether the demand will bethere.
And I was just talking to autility executive, and it's
super common now to require aminimum revenue commitment from
data centers to the utilitieswho are doing a lot of build out
on their behalf to make surethat they'll be able to recoup
the costs of doing that.
And that's important.
You know, I've heard numberslike 80% of expected demand.

(17:33):
So the data center companiesare guaranteeing that.
Or not to go too deep in thesector, something called demand
charges, which is the a chargeassociated with the peak demand
that you need, requiring minimumamounts of that as well.
So I think those kinds ofassurances serve to protect
utilities, to protect thegeneral public around potential
failures.
And look, in infrastructure, wecan go through a whole bunch of

(17:56):
categories over history.
There are periods where there'soverbuild, and that leads to
price crashes as well.
And despite the incredibleopportunity that AI offers,
there's risk around that aswell.

That's right.
I mean, there are pricecrashes.
We've seen that before.
We saw this before inCalifornia, right?
Where there's massive pricecrashes and then folks played
the market and then there becamemassive price increases.
So all kinds of things canhappen in a market like this.
And as new situations come in,things evolve, right?

So I have reasons to be happy.
Yeah.
I don't want to be too negativehere.

You are an optimist, and I think part of it
is having an efficient market,right?

Yeah.
And to that point, there'sincredible opportunity to use
analytics and design aresponsive power market of our
dreams here.
So much of the cost in powersystems is a function of 20 or
200 hours a year, and that's it.
And so there are these systemscalled demand response, where
the system as a whole will paypeople to shed power, whether

(18:52):
aluminum plant or a data center,so forth.
And as a country, we barelyscratch the surface of this,
even though there's systemsdeployed in, I think, seven
states right now.
Fully deploying those back tothe hundred, 135 gigawatts that
you cited earlier.
That can deliver tens ofgigawatts of affected supply.
It's essentially demandreduction at the just right

(19:12):
time.
These kinds of solutions arestill within our grasp here as a
country and with the ingenuitythat we have.

Yeah, I mean, so price does help, right?
Having a market and pricingpower according to when you need
it is important, right?
Like you were saying, duringthe day, because of California's
massive amount of solar built,actually prices go negative
during the day.
So that's why we have batterystorage.
Maybe we can utilize morethings during the day and then
you know somehow move it to thenights or to other times.

So there's another thing happening that
also has me encouraged, directlyrelated to the dynamics you're
talking about, which is there'sthis obscure accounting system
called the greenhouse gasprotocol that defines how
companies or particularly largeenterprises around the world
report on their carbon profile.
And there's a change happeningto an element of it,

(20:01):
particularly for largeenterprises that will be
implemented in the years ahead,TBD, that requires what's called
temporal matching, which is forany claims that you're
renewable powered, it needs tobe done on an hourly 24-7 basis
as opposed to an annuallymatched basis.
And I think this is a goodchange for the world, because if

(20:21):
you think through that, it thencreates a big incentive for
hyperscalers, othercorporations, et cetera, to buy
solutions that deliver powerthat better matches their load.
So more batteries and toparticipate in demand response
programs that shape when theyneed the power as well.
And what will happen is we willtruly have more carbon-free

(20:44):
energy around the clock.

Yeah, but if we take it to the AI world, right,
you can then more effectivelyschedule your training.
So inferencing, you may not beable to change because
inferencing is when I'm actuallyoperating, right?
So people need compute whenthey need it to operate the
models they've built or theprograms, the small language
models that they've turned intoenterprise applications.
But for the training, you coulddo those workloads during those

(21:07):
times where power is much lessexpensive and you could schedule
it that way.

So imagine training for a global firm that
literally follows the sun aroundthe world.

Yeah.
Yeah.
No, that this is really cool.
As it goes, you're setting yourtraining set and it's moving
where power is least expensiveor most available as you go.
So uh we had an episode onsovereign data providers.
So maybe all these sovereigndata AI data providers could
lash together and workthemselves through this.
Pretty cool.
Okay, the AI industry relies oninternal metrics like tokens

(21:36):
per kilowatt to measure hardwareefficiency and reduce energy
costs.
So, how challenging would it beto translate complex technical
data like tokens per kilowattinto something standardized,
auditable, an environmentalrating system that is
transparent to enterprisebuyers?
So, would it be somethingoutcome-based, something like
energy legal document?

We got this.
I mean, we, the data centercompany, we tackled far more
difficult things than that.
There's a way to simplify, youknow, visualizations, reporting,
and so forth.
I think it's an excellent idea.
I, you know, we, you and I havea friend that's bringing in
much more fixalization onpurchase criteria for AI
deployment.
And I think it'll deliverexactly those kinds of outcomes.

(22:17):
So we got this.
Come on, we've tackled morehard, more difficult problems
than figuring out how to report.

Awesome.
All right.
So let me just ask you a littlebit about the current political
environment.
So you have a situation wherethere was high encouragement,
hard push to go renewable, andnow you have a situation where
they're backing off, right?
US is getting out of the Parisclimate agreement.
What are you seeing?
Because your company is dealingwith corporations that are in

(22:44):
the US as well as globally.
What's your sense of how thingsare going?

Yeah, so it's not as black and white as a lot of
people characterize it.
You know, I hear thesefatalistic statements like
renewables are dead in theUnited States.
And that's just really nottrue.
So, first, to focus on the US,what the US does, particularly
with power and renewable power,is when the federal government
doesn't lead, and it's leadingon a whole bunch of issues.
Like I said, firm clean power,nuclear development, permitting

(23:12):
and reform, the states respondright here in California, just
over the last couple months, were-entitled Cap and Invest, Cap
and Trade in the United Statesthrough 2045.
Talk about creating anenvironment for deployment and
security and stability overtime.
And there's linkages withQuebec, Washington's going to
link with that.
I've seen over my career, goingback to George W.

(23:34):
Bush, Trump won, you know, theGFC, the COVID B, when there's
not tribal leadership, statesrespond.
And there's a whole bunch ofstates that are responding as
well to tighten the rules thatthey impose on utilities and
around carbon regulation and allits various forms.
Now, having said that, thepolitical reality of the
conundrum and the inflationarypressures and the popular

(23:57):
upheaval, it will lead, and itis today, to some dilution of
these regulations that requireutilities to buy more and more
of their power over time.
And I do think we're going tosee more of that right along
with it.
Beyond that, to your questionon the corporate side, there's
something called green hushingthat's happening right now.

Green hushing.

Green hushing.
Oh.
And there was actually aHarvard Business Review.
I know you're a Harbor guy.
That was just a piece that wasjust published on this, which in
a nutshell is it comports withwhat we know anecdotally, which
is companies are working theirtails off against their 2030
carbon reduction goals.
Like their tails off.
And they're just talking lessabout it.
They're, you know, toning downtheir websites.

(24:37):
It's a bit like DEI and howit's being treated in a lot of
organizations.

That's definitely the sh word.
Yeah.

Yeah.

That's the question, right?
The companies are doing thisbecause there's demand from
their customers to work in a lowemissions carbon neutral way.
I mean, in many ways, thedemand of your consumer is
there.
And now you're saying there'salso an economic benefit to
getting that.

Exactly.
It's the two together.
And look, any institution needsto maintain its license to
operate with its stakeholders.
And it doesn't matter ifyou're, you know, Harvard or,
you know, it's Addison orcompany or three degrees.
So the stakeholder view, notjust customers.
There's, you know, someinvestors that care a lot about
these issues.
And but customers are a bigpart of that, whether it's you

(25:20):
know, business customers orindividuals.

All right.
We're going to shift a littlebit to how three degrees and its
own technology and thetechnology development.
I know it's something thatyou've pushed hard for in
reducing tech debt in yourcompany, right?
So maybe explain a little bitmore about how three degrees
works.
But three degrees is highlyspecialized in complex,
high-valued environmentaloptimization, such as scope
three decarbonization and thedevelopment of virtual power

(25:45):
plants.
Words I didn't even know till Iread them today.
Okay.
How close is your organizationto deploying and scaling AI
agents to manage theseprocesses?
For example, are youdynamically optimizing virtual
power plant performance orrunning supply chain efficiency
programs?
What are specific governanceand audit trail requirements
that must be met before anorganization like yours would

(26:05):
trust an autonomous agent tohandle critical environmental
asset management at scale?
I hit you with a whole bunch ofthings.
So start with this is for ourtime for sure.
Yeah, explain a little bit, butstart with three degrees.

Yeah, I mean, any organization worth its salt
needs to be leaning in to AI.
It's it's a competitiveimperative.
And we are too, and have beengoing through our own journey
like a lot of institutions haveas well.
We're doing a fair bit ofexperimentation right now.
We do have some agents deployedand we're at work on an
explete, a fleet after that,fleet after that.

(26:37):
Having said that, we need tomake sure there's quality in
place.
And there's no question thatthere could be massive
productivity enhancements.
We one area we're reallyexcited about is obscure
category of scope threeemissions.
So, in a nutshell, we're goingto oversimplify this is supply
chain emissions for any company.
And usually the embodied carbonin the supply chain for any

(27:00):
organization is a huge fractionof its total impact on the
world, think 50%, maybe 80%.
And within that, you often,especially for big enterprises,
have thousands or tens ofthousands of different
suppliers, only some fraction ofwhich you have real control
over, even if you're a majorplayer like Google or Microsoft
or someone like that.
And often, especially when yougo back one step further, you

(27:22):
have no idea who these partiesare.
So there's a real need for dataconsolidation, normalization,
and deploying solutions atvarious stages that requires
you've just got a massive dataneed.
Now bring in 24-7 markets aswell, where ultimately three
steps up the value chain, youneed to understand the load

(27:44):
profile on a 24-7 basis, 365days of the year up front and
after the fact, you have a bigdata problem that's beyond the
human brain to fully integrate.
Never mind doing that on aglobal basis.
And so technology writ largeand AR in particular, we think
can be really useful in tamingthat chaos.
And ultimately, we need complexbut simple solutions that

(28:06):
allowed for elegant execution.

It's amazing.
So scope three decarbonizationis what I admit.
There's what I own, it's what Ido, which is scope two, and
scope three is what my suppliersand buyers may do downstream,
essentially.
So you're dealing with that.
Are you dealing with that aspart of the contracts that you
help companies establish?

We are.
So we've been doing work therefor 10 years.
It's sector as a whole is veryfocused on that.
If you're a large enterpriseand you've made a
decarbonization renewablescommitment, and most have at
this point, your own purchasingfor your own power, you're well
down the path on that.
And, you know, maybe not inevery jurisdiction around the
world.
But when it comes to supplychain, there's a lot of

(28:49):
companies that have a long, longmost companies have a long,
long way to go.
And so there's tremendousopportunity for decarbonization
globally as a result of this.
We put together purchaseaggregations on behalf of
clients where we'll invite theirtier one suppliers to
participate and leverage ascreaming good power purchase
agreement price that wasnegotiated by our client on

(29:10):
their behalf.
And sometimes our clientsparticipate, sometimes they
offer it up for others.
So those kinds of efficiencies,that's not a mind-blowing
solution.
That's just getting organizedand executing against the goal.
And there's a lot ofopportunity with that.

It's really amazing, Dan.
Thank you.
And then virtual power plant.
What's a virtual power plant?

Yes.
So we talked about that.
That's this beautifully elegantpower system of our dreams that
can dynamically meet supply anddemand of the moment.
That's the broad concept.
The narrow most usedapplication is when you get a
whole fleet of what are calledDERs, distributed energy
resources that can be highlyresponsive to the moment.

(29:51):
So this could be, I'm going toguess you've got battery storage
in your house or down the road.
Hopefully, someday you'll buy avehicle that allows for two way
power charging.
And distribution.

I was hoping my Tesla charger would let me just
go back and forth with my car,but we're not there right now.

But what's happening actually is school
buses are some of the bestdeployments of what's called
vehicle to grid right now.
So think about it.
Charge during the sunshine,drop the kids off after school
who still have a bunch of powerin the batteries, and deploy
right into the darkness ofCalifornia.
And they're big batteries.
These have a lot of potential.
It's just one other example.
Another could be having nestthermostats on a national basis

(30:28):
working in concert to just turnup the heat a couple degrees.
You wouldn't even reallynotice.

So small changes can make a massive difference at
those points where you'respiking with the absolutely.

Yeah.
Toggling AC on and off every 15minutes.

You don't feel the difference.

Yeah, exactly.
So this is the kind ofintelligence that we need to
really harness at writ large.
And that's what VPPAs are aversion of that.

And it's it's amazing that you're involved
with it, Dan.
So I appreciate that.

That's really we admittedly we don't do a lot on
that front, but I'm a huge fan,huge advocate.
And there's other companiesthat are specialists in those
categories that I am sending mybest to.

All right.
It could be one of yourinvestment or acquisition
targets.
All right, Dan, now we're goingto go to one of the most fun
parts about this show is thegame.
And we've decided to go atsomething that my producers
found about you.
So this is called ExtremeJourneys, the Climate Pioneer's
Crucible.
So, Dan, welcome to the SparkTank.
Today we're thrilled to haveDan Celephetis, the chairman and

(31:28):
co-founder of Three Degrees,joining us.
Dan is a true pioneer in theclimate and clean energy space,
a world where the challenges arearguably the most extreme we
face globally.
But his expertise in navigatingextremes isn't just
professional.
Dan's personal adventures, likewhitewater rafting in 37 degree
glacial water near the ArcticCircle and sleeping in a capsule
strapped to an 11,000 footcliff face, prove that he has an

(31:51):
unrivaled instinct for riskassessment and high-stakes
planning.
So, Dan, we're putting yourbattle-tested instincts to the
crucible with Extreme JourneysTrivia Challenge.
We are going to test yourknowledge of some of the
planet's greatest feats ofvertical ascent, cold weather
survival, and physical enduranceachieved by others.
So, Dan, are you ready to provethat your focus on extreme

(32:14):
success is as sharp in themountains as it is in the
boardroom?

Oh, bring it on, bring it on.
I'll also add some of thismight be hereditary.
My grandfather dated Alcapone'ssister.
So talk about a little bit ofrisk.
We're really glad, by the way,that that didn't work out.

Risk and planning.
Okay, here's question numberone.
In 2013, a team of diversdescended into freezing waters
at 20,000 feet above sea level,higher than most people have
ever stood on solid ground toset the world record for the
highest altitude scuba dive everrecorded.
What makes it unique?
It wasn't just about diving, itwas about acclimatizing to

(32:50):
extreme altitude where oxygen isscarce, then submerging into
near-freezing water in a remotecrater lake.
The divers faced challengesfrom both mountaineering and
deep sea diving simultaneously.
At which mountains crater lakewas this extraordinary record
set?
You have three choices, Dan.
A Mount Kilimanjaro, which isTanzania's dormant volcano with

(33:11):
a summit crater.
B Ojos del Salado, a remotevolcanic peak at the Chile and
Argentina border, or C, MountEverest, the world's highest
peak with high altitude lakes.

So it's not Kilimanjaro, because I think
that's 18,000 feet.
I'm gonna go B because it'sunexpected.

Dan, you nailed it.
Yes, there you go.
At the beginning, we talkedabout your analytical genius.
So the record was set at craterlake at Ojos del Salado, the
world's highest active volcanoat 22,615 feet.
While Kilabanjaro does have acrater, it's not the site of
this record.
Everest, despite being thehighest mountain, doesn't have
the accessible crater lake thatmade this dive possible.

(33:54):
So Ojos del Salado's uniquecombination of extreme altitude
and a diveable crater lakecreated the perfect and most
challenging conditions for thisremarkable achievement.
The divers had to spend daysacclimatizing to the thin air
before attempting to dive inwater just above freezing.

That's incredible.
I've been to 40 meters introphical water, a totally
different line of the ball.
And I've been to 15,000 feet,but not 20.
I am incredibly impressed.

Okay.
Well, here's number two.
You got one right.
Here's number two.
Marathon des Sables or MDSrequires runners to complete 156
miles in the scorching SaharaDesert over six days.
The race provides water andshelter, but its rules impose a
unique and unforgiving burdenthat is considered the hallmark

(34:41):
of its difficulty.
What critical provision mustrunners manage and carry
themselves that fundamentallytransforms the marathon de
Sables from a running challengeinto a week-long survival and
strategic rationing test?

Water.
A.
Sorry.

Do you want to try to answer without it?

I think it's water.
I mean, it's so incrediblyheavy.

That's good to set it as a marker.
Okay.
A specialized tents andsleeping bags to withstand the
extreme temperature drop whenthe sun sets over the desert.
B every single calorie foodneeded for six days of racing,
adding substantial weight totheir packs from the start.
And C a mandatory radiotracking device, satellite
phone, and emergency flare kitfor self-rescue in the remote

(35:24):
landscape.
So those are the three choices.

I mean, they definitely carry C, so that's
that's not it.
I will go B because the cleric,I can't even imagine how many
calories you take for that.

And you got to carry it yourself.
So the answer is drum roll B.
Carrying every single calorieneeded for six days of racing.
What truly distinguishesMarathon de Sables is its
mandatory self-sufficiency rule.
While the race provides watercheckpoints, God, imagine
carrying that much water,runners must carry everything

(35:55):
else.
Sleeping bag, compass,headlamp, and critically 14,000
calories worth of dehydratedfood.
Backpacks can weigh 15 to 25pounds on day one.
Other races cover similardistances in desert heat over
multiple days, but MDStransforms the event from a pure
running race into a week-longsurvival exercise.
You must strategically rationcalories, manage the physical
strain of running with a heavypack, and ensure you don't run

(36:17):
out of fuel before the finish.
It's the ultimate test of bothendurance and logistical
planning.

And you're carrying water between the
checkpoints.
And presumably those are, youknow, a minimum of five miles,
if not 10 or something likethat.
So there's real weight there.

So there's a definite huge add-on to that.

Humans are incredible.

It's amazing.

Dan, you're two for two.
All right.
So can you get three?
I'm feeling nervous.

All right.
We're gonna ramp it up with asubject that you and I have
actually been to a session on.
So after the endurance wascrushed by Antarctic ice in
1915, Sir Erneston and his 27men were stranded on a desolate
Elephant Island, a barren,wind-battered rock with no hope
of rescue.

(36:59):
No one knew where they were, noships passed by.
If they stayed, they would die.
What makes it legendary?
Shackleton made an almostsuicidal decision, taking five
men in a 22-foot open lifeboatand sail 800 miles across the
southern ocean, considered themost violent seas on Earth, to
reach help.
They navigated using only asextant and dead reckoning,

(37:20):
battling 60-foot waves,hurricane force winds, and
temperature well below freezing.
One navigation error would meansailing past their target
island and dying in the openocean.
After 16 days of sailingthrough hell, which remote
island did Shackleton's tinylifeboat miraculously reach in
April 1916?
So here are three choices,unless you want to guess it

(37:42):
without the choice.
Okay, A is Falkland Islands, aBritish territory 575 miles
northeast with an establishedport and regular ship traffic.
B Shisten de Kunja, the world'smost remote inhabited island,
2,400 miles to the north in theAtlantic, and C South Georgia
Island, a wheeling station 800miles away across the most

(38:06):
treacherous waters on theplanet.

C why would you say C?
Because it rings a bell and itwasn't B.
I'm certain of that.
Falklands possible.
And you know, I remember itbeing an epic journey.
And I think what was difficultis 500, 800 miles.
They're both epic.

800 miles in the ocean?
I know lifeboat.
That's true.
Cro South Georgia Island.
Shackleton chose South GeorgiaIsland because it was the
nearest inhabited outpost withwhaling stations, despite
requiring the perilous 800-milejourney across the Scotia Sea,
the meeting point of theAntarctic and Atlantic Oceans
where waves can reach 60 feet.
The Falklands, while closer andsafer, were out of reach given

(38:46):
their position and prevailingwinds.
Tristan de Cuna was way too faraway, 2400 miles.
After reaching South Georgia'ssouth coast, Shackleton then had
to cross the island's unmapped,glaciated interior on foot to
reach the whaling station on thenorth side, a feat never before
accomplished.
Remarkably, all 28 men from theendurance expedition eventually

(39:07):
survived, making it one ofhistory's greatest leadership
and survival stories.

See, as a society, we can handle reporting
the GHG intensity of computer.
We can handle that thanks.

I mean, if he could do it, how hard could that
be?
I still remember from that casethat he just had this really
short classified ad that justsaid, you know, need so many
men.
This is dangerous.
You could die, you know.

But if you want an epic journey, give me a call.

Yeah.
Yeah.
There was very littlesalesmanship and it was just all
about the risks, but it washelping him find the right types
of people who want to take onthat kind of risk.
Just incredible.
You're right.
If you could do this, buildingsome transmission line, some
power plants, how hard can thisbe?

That's right.

All right.
Now we're going to transitionto questions about starting
three degrees and yourentrepreneurial journey.
Did you know you always wantedto work in climate change?
I know, like in 2002 atStanford, and you talked about
you heard a climate changespeech from TJ Glaudier of the
Clinton administration that wasso resonant, inspired you to
dedicate your business career tothe US renewable energy sector.

(40:12):
So can you elaborate the coremessage of that speech and what
sparked you?

Well, let me back up for a minute.
I had no interest in working onclimate change.
I didn't know what climatechange was.
First of all, and I thoughtenergy was incredibly boring.
You just plug a thing in thewall and you know, lights go on
and the fuel truck shows up inmy Massachusetts, you know,
small mill town.
So right after college, I wentto work for a really
family-oriented consulting firm.

(40:37):
And I loved that environment,but I wasn't really, after some
time, feeling the work, like asin this is my purpose on this
earth.
And so I found myself up lateat night reading Ben and Jerry's
book, Double Scoop.
Nice.
This is what in like 1998.
And it was the firstarticulation I'd ever heard of
the double bottom line.

(40:58):
And you probably remember well,not only did Ben and Jerry's
have amazing ice cream, but theyreally saw themselves as a
social enterprise.
And I devoured this book.
You know those books you readwhere you're underlining a
marginalia, highlights, and dogears, and rereading it.
That was me.
And I read something similarabout Tom Subman.
And I love this idea of usingmarket forces to solve social

(41:19):
problems done in a privateenterprise that honors its
stakeholders in a more explicitway than many organizations do.
Not all our organizations arevery stakeholder-driven.
So I wrote these idealisticessays that and went to Stanford
Business School about that.

So your essays to business school were about it.

Exactly.

If you take me in, I'll do this.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.

So then I lurched around as a confused soul in
business school for a long time,looking at all kinds of
different things.
And nothing really floated myboat until someone grabbed me by
the earlobe and hauled me intothat talk.
And my life took a right handturn.
The, you know, renewable energyonly barely existed at that
point in time.
The economics major in me, thebusiness school student, I loved

(42:07):
the market-based element ofthat and this idea that there
were gains from trade.
There was this innovationaround a crediting mechanism
that happened.
And you know, I learned aboutclimate change and something
that has stuck with me for along time.
I grew up in a house ofimmigration, immigrant
traditions.
I'm third gen.

So they maintained it, right?
They maintained the Greekorigins, the Greek culture,
right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We had some great Greek Eastersgrowing up.
And that the idea of socialjustice was a powerful one in my
house and in the tradition,grandparents and so on and so
forth.
I also have such a clear memoryof convocation at Dharmatz as
an undergrad, which is when, youknow, as you of sure know, when
colleges declare you officiallya freshman, our president James

(42:51):
Friedman spoke.
And in a nutshell, he said, Howlike, how lucky are you to be
in this room?
And you have a duty to dosomething for society.
And I really believe thatnotion that we stand on the
shoulders of those who comebefore us, we live such great
lives in general in the UnitedStates because of the work of so
many others.
You know, economically, thinkabout our conserved lands and we

(43:12):
could go on and on and on andon.
And so, from a valuesperspective, the idea of helping
to address climate change, ofhelping to grow this sector of
using the skills and experiencesthat I am grateful I developed
at that point in time to take ona problem that's really in the
grand scheme of humanity, it's aluxury to think about
environmental issues.
And I was in a position where Icould work on that for so many

(43:35):
others.
And that felt super resonant tome.
That's awesome.

That's amazing.
So three degrees originally wasa spin-off of another company
you were at.
Yeah.
And then you were leading thecompany until 2015.
You were a CEO, and then youtransitioned to chairman,
focusing on long-term corporatestrategies, strategic
initiatives, risk management.
Since then, the company hasscaled significantly.
And you worked really closelywith Steve McDougal, amazing guy

(43:59):
as CEO.
And then recently your companyappointed Philippe Vidrand as
the new CEO.
How do you articulate the shiftin focus required to lead the
seven-person board and managelong-term strategic risks, such
as navigating geopoliticalshifts and carbon markets,
accelerating durable carbonremoval solutions versus the
demands of being the operatorCEO?

It's a piece of cake.
No, I'm kidding.

Yeah, you only work like what, 10 hours a week?
That's it?
No being shared.

For sure.
Look, a board's job isprincipally to hire and fire the
CEO.
And we had a huge XL afterPhilippe came on board.
We hired the right guy.
He's been excellent in thatseat.
And also to define strategy andthen kind of govern management
to make sure things don't go offthe rails.
We spent a ton of time on thatfront.
I've really enjoyed recruitingindependent directors to our

(44:48):
board over the years.
Our first was April Salas, thenAmy Wyringa, Matt Rogers, we're
in the market right now forsomebody.
So we really like bringing inindependent, fresh outside
thinking to expand our aperture,given that there is a lot of
change right now, you know,macroeconomically at a global
level in the United States,terrorists, inflation,

(45:08):
sectorally, as we talked aboutat great length on this call,
and change within ourorganization as well.
And so having lots of diverseviews around the table, I've
really evolved cherishing that.
And I spent a lot of my timethinking about how to cultivate
that and do a better and betterjob in my own journey on that
front.

You know, from 2002 onward, you decided to
focus your energy on renewableenergy, right?
And so your leadership issustained to major policy
shifts, as we talked about,legislative packages that may
hamper the development of cleanenergy.
You've gone through all kindsof things as you went through
this.
How have you cultivatedlong-term resilience and
strategic patience necessary toinvest and innovate in climate
solutions, particularly whenshort-term pressures challenge

(45:46):
you?

Look, the reality of climate change is staying.
It's forever.
We are bequeathing it to ourchildren and our brand children.
And there are, I'll be a littleextreme in the
characterization, they'redistractions like current
politics at the moment, aredistracting from getting to work
on the current goal, at least,you know, US politics and
elsewhere.
And, you know, at some level,AI is another challenge.

(46:10):
I might say a bit of adistraction from the core job of
decarbonizing to mitigate theimpacts of climate change on
human beings.
You know, I'll say as an aside,a lot of people say we need to
save the earth.
The earth's gonna be just fine.
This is about saving ourselves.

Yeah, the earth has a remarkable ability to
adapt, right?
It'll it'll keep adapting.
But what is it gonna be for us?

Yeah.
A big motivator for me is aprayer that I have, which is a
prayer that our grandkids, yourgrandkids, and their children
inherit only a debt of gratitudebecause our generation stared
this problem in the face andaddressed it.
And this is a trillion-dollardesign problem that is
addressable in a generation.

(46:50):
And so that's my North Star.

I love that, Dan.
So we always ask our guests toname a historical event or
person or movement that inspiresyou.
And you answered NikitasPatrophanus Caliphatus, your
grandfather.
What in particular about himlights you up?
I'm so proud of him.

He was valedictorian of his engineering
college in Perez, just outsideof Athens.
And for a whole set of reasons,economic and otherwise, he came
to the US and waited tables forfour years.
Um, he didn't know thelanguage.
And his son, my father, got amaster's degree from Harvard.
It is the American dream.
I'm really proud of my fatheras well.

(47:27):
I should add that too.
And that is part of theinherited tradition that I
internalize.
And so I bring to my work adesire to serve his dreams, both
of their dreams, off in thefuture.

Your grandfather decided to walk away from an
advanced degree to take a risk.
It's so beautiful.
Okay, we now have somewonderful personal closures.
What's a piece of conventionalwisdom that everyone around you
accepts, but you secretly thinkmight be wrong?

Well, I'm not so secret about this.
I was actually just teaching aclass at Darbet a bit on this
topic.
People have a view ofleadership, like it's Zeus on
the high mountain, all-knowingand issuing dictates from up
above.
But Rajiv, as you know well,good leadership, yes, it has
vision, but it's humble in thatit's soliciting a lot of input

(48:20):
to get that, and it'sempathetic.
And I think people don't talkenough about empathy and
leadership.
And I'm talking about a timewith customers that's
empathetic.
I'm talking about timecertainly with employees, people
in the leadership team.
And it enables people's truehopes and dreams to get
articulated and most creativethoughts to come out.

I love that.
That's a great way of thinkingabout it.
It is not commands from thehigh, it's about aligning people
together.
And part of that is you have tolisten.

I often say, people, a dirty little secret
about leadership is you're notthe top of the pyramid.
You're actually the bottom ofthe pyramid.
You know, and and you knowthat.

Especially if you want to be effective.
Okay, if you could have a30-minute conversation with any
version of yourself from thepast, what age would you pick
and what would you want todiscuss?

I'd go back to my grad school self a little bit
after when I was starting threedegrees and implore that person
to set up proper governance.
I I'd tell that person, youknow a lot less than you think
you know.
And then I'd I'd set up a wholebunch of things differently
based on that.

What would you do differently?

I'd have a proper board, I'd attire risk systems,
I'd bring in coaching earlierinto my life.
I was really convinced I knewwhat was best.
And what's hard, when you starta company, so many people say
no to you that you you do needto rely on that vision and the
conviction and to ignore so manyno's along the way.

(49:46):
It's the only way you cansurvive that and actually build
something that perseveres, butthen that can become a
liability.
It was for me at least.
So I wish I could have shakenthat version of myself a long
time ago.
And some of my biggest mistakesin life came from that.

It's amazing.
It's a great way to think aboutit, is to risk adjust yourself
a bit while not losing thatfervor that you need to persuade
people.
So that's a it's a toughbalance.
Do you have a favorite lifemotto that you come back to and
share with friends in work orlife?

The one that's coming to mind now is from
Victor Frankel, who survived theHolocaust, uh, man's search for
meaning, the you know, thepurpose of life is the
difference between what man isand what man can become.
And I really like the idea ofgrowth edge.
And it's so good for if you'reputting yourself on your growth
edge, learning and growing foryour psychology, for your you
know, your well-being, and soforth.

(50:36):
And so I encourage, you know,my kids and and people around me
to do that.

I don't know.
What's the most useful thingyou've learned from someone
significantly younger than you?
You have a few kids.

Yeah.
Six seven, six seven.

None of us know what that means, and I don't
think they do either.

Yeah.
But I can you can trust if ifour kids saw this right now,
they would be totally cringy.

No, they'd be totally embarrassed, all red.
You're so cringy.

I think there's, you know, regardless of the age
of the kids, there's just thisplayfulness that in the
momentness that I think isreally easy.
We've all lost in our societyas an adult.
And so I think putting thephone down, detaching, dropping
yourself to a cliff at 11,000feet and being 100% present,
also when you're in your ownhome.

(51:25):
I think weaving that into theday is is really important.

I just recently watched an Arthur Brooks
five-minute Arthur Brooks videoabout we need to reinvent
boredom.
We need to bring boredom intoour lives.

Yeah, I tell my kids it's a beautiful thing.
When they were younger, I'mbored, and you know, that's a
beautiful thing.
Sit in the boredom.

That's when the most fun things, serendipitous
things happen.
He sells it as a deep thinking,a way to bring about greater
meaning and purpose in yourthinking.
I think it's also aplayfulness.
It creates a playfulness justby sitting back and staring at
someone or being in a room withfolks and not having other stuff
to do.
It just creates.

And you're a playful guy, Regit.
You were very good at that ingeneral.

Well, thank you.
But I I need to drop that phoneas well.
But so, Dan, I want to thankyou for joining us today.
Even though you're one of myclosest friends, you were one of
my toughest gets for this.
And I appreciate you cominghere and sharing what you've
built over the years, yourpurpose, your drive, your
leadership style, your views onsome of the hottest topics with
AI and renewable energy.

(52:25):
So I really appreciate havingyou here today.

Yeah, you bet.
And let's not forget, this is atrillion dollar design
challenge addressing climatechange and we got.
I love that.
Thanks so much for having me.
I really appreciate it.

That was truly inspiring.
It's great for me when I get tosit up close over years and see
this amazing person who hasbeen inspired by one of the
greatest challenges of ourlifetime, which is dealing with
the climate challenge, right?
And he sees this, as hementioned, as a trillion-dollar
design challenge.
And he's gone through so manysituations in his life in terms

(53:06):
of how he built up this businessto meet that great purpose that
he's established.
And he's gone as far as evenmaking his company a certain
type of corporation, a B Corp.
He's just continued to investin different aspects that enable
him to address the climatechallenge and the
decarbonization challenge.
And it's inspiring to hear whatgot him into this, how he was

(53:28):
floating along and found thatgreat purpose in Abed and
Jerry's book, which is reallyamazing.
And then we get into someinteresting nuggets during the
conversation about the notion ofthings that I wouldn't have
thought of, even though I'veread so much about climate and
the technologies behind it, isthe notion of a virtual power
plant and the ability in thecontracts you establish to

(53:49):
address some of the problem ofpeak demand and the costs
associated with it, witharranging some of the terms
appropriately so that you'relooking at things from a 24-hour
basis instead of a year-longbasis.
There's just really clever waysof solving this.
And I love Dan's point aboutthat with the emergence of AI
and the explosion of powerneeded for AI, not just compute,

(54:09):
but the power associated withit, that we have to do a wartime
level motivation and how he'staken that with his own natural
instincts, his own empatheticleadership style to build a
company from scratch, work withamazing partners like his CEO
Steven, with many of the folkshe's brought in, his board.
You should see the way he putstogether boards, as well as his

(54:30):
latest CEO transition toPhilippe.
I mean, it's just he's verythoughtful in every aspect of
his life.
So I was a little taken abackor a little surprised when he
said, I wish I had given myselfmore of a teaching about
governance and risk assessment,because I've seen him through a
significant period of time wherehe's frankly more of a risk
assessment person than I am.
I really want to thank you allfor joining us for this.

(54:53):
This was really amazing to havea person like Dan here today.
And I just want to let you knowthat we've also dropped our
50th episode of Spark of Ages.
So the reason I started thiswas it was my gift to bring back
from my experience of moving asa New Hampshire boy to a person
in Silicon Valley and gotten achance to experience my dreams

(55:13):
of meeting people who arecreating some of the greatest
innovations on earth, trying tochange the world.
And I've gotten to learn somuch about how these folks built
their ideas, their businesses,their concepts, and about who
they are as people and whatmotivates them and what sparks
them, what drives them.
And as a result of yoursupport, we are now a top 10%
podcast according to listennotes.

(55:33):
And so, because of yourfeedback and comments, we've
really honed in on innovation,leadership, AI, go to market.
And those comments motivate me.
Every time I get a text messagefrom a friend or if I read a
comment, I get more inspiredevery day to find the right
stories to bring to you, theright people to bring to you.
So thank you for being part ofthis journey.
And so thank you so much forlistening.

(55:55):
If you enjoyed today or any oneof the ones, please take a
moment to rate it and comment.
It makes a huge difference forus.
You can find us on Apple,Spotify, YouTube, Amazon,
everywhere podcasts can befound.
The show is produced by AnandShah and edited by Laura
Ballant.
I'm your host, Rajiv Parik fromPosition Squared, a leading
growth marketing company basedin Silicon Valley.
We focus heavy on AI enablementof our processes and how we

(56:18):
drive solutions for folks.
And what people teach us hasbeen directly incorporated in
the things that we do.
So come visit us atposition2.com.
This has been an F and funnyproduction.
They do fantastic work.
They're in the middle ofproducing their first full
feature like movie, so can'twait to talk about that.
And we'll catch you next time.
And remember, folks, be evercurious.

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Fighting Climate Change in the Age of AI/Dan Kalafatas - Prices, Scope 3, Green-Hushing ~ Spark of Ages Ep 52

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Fighting Climate Change in the Age of AI/Dan Kalafatas - Prices, Scope 3, Green-Hushing ~ Spark of Ages Ep 52