October 3, 2024 • 53 mins
Hello there, Star Wars fans and welcome to episode 233.
The latest episode delves into the tumultuous history of Star Wars announcements since Disney's acquisition of Lucasfilm, highlighting how the frequent changes in release schedules have affected fans' expectations and enthusiasm. With a series of delayed releases and project cancellations, fans are left questioning the direction of the franchise and the reasoning behind these decisions, including production challenges and creative differences. The discussion also compares how other franchises, like Marvel, successfully manage their release timelines, contrasting it with Star Wars' current struggles.
As speculation arises about what fans can expect moving forward, the episode engages with listener reactions, capturing the mixed sentiments surrounding the shifting landscape of Star Wars media. Ultimately, this conversation aims to explore the future release strategies for Star Wars while addressing the impact of these developments on the devoted fanbase.
Through a lively and candid discussion, this episode tackles the complex realities of Star Wars' release strategies post-2012 acquisition by Disney. Garry and Mark provide a thorough retrospective on the numerous projects that have been announced, altered, or canceled, painting a picture of a franchise in turmoil. The conversation leads into a critical examination of how these shifts have impacted the trust and enthusiasm of the fan base, noting that many fans now approach announcements with trepidation, fearing further cancellations or lackluster products.
We highlight the need for a more coherent strategy moving forward. They speculate on the potential for revitalising the franchise through fresh storytelling and clearer communication with fans. Additionally, we address the reactions from the Star Wars community, acknowledging a spectrum of feelings from apathy to fervent criticism. The episode emphasises the importance of understanding fan sentiment and adapting to it, suggesting that moving forward, Lucasfilm should prioritise consistency in its messaging and commitment to delivering quality content.
This thoughtful discourse not only reflects on the past but also serves as a hopeful guide for the future of the Star Wars saga, encouraging fans to remain engaged and optimistic despite the rollercoaster ride of announcements and releases.
About Spark of Rebellion:
This is Spark of Rebellion, the weekly Star Wars podcast for casual fans and veterans alike.
We are your hosts, Garry and Mark and every single Saturday we release a brand new episode bringing you the latest news, reviews & discussion on all things Star Wars. Tell all of your Star Wars loving friends that the show is available to listen to, completely free anywhere you can find podcasts.
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Hello there.
We would be honored if youwould join us.
Spark of Rebellion.
Hello and welcome to Spark ofRebellion, the weekly Star wars podcast
that brings you news, views, and
updates from a galaxy far, far away.
(00:24):
I'm your host with the most,and this week, the right mic.
I allegedly had my mic set tomy computer microphone as a professional
podcaster last time we spoke, but
nonetheless, I am here.
I am mark, of course.
And today we're going to mixthings up a little bit.
Normally we do a little bit ofnews, but honestly, Star wars news
is getting a little bit repetitive
andit's drying up a little bit.
(00:47):
Time of year, probably time ofbloody cats on all the dishes.
Took a leitch from a break, probably.
I don't know, speculation andthings have just dried up a little
bit.
So we're gonna actually tryand we're actually gonna try and
dosomething a little bit different
over thenext few weeks.
Maybe intersperse a little bitof opinions, maybe bring some of
the segments back that we've probably
not done for like 203 episodes.
(01:09):
But whatever, who's counting?
I'm not counting, but you knowthe drill.
If you enjoy it, let us know.
Kev, Danny, everyone thatjoins us@sparkarebellion.com.
support and is one of the crew.
We thank you and appreciateyou and do let us know what you think.
So we're gonna go into today,we're gonna talk about the release,
roller coaster, Disney Star wars
movies, tv show announcements, and
why they keep sort of flipping and
flopping and maybe getting a few
things a little bit wrong.
(01:39):
It's gonna be quiteinteresting, I think.
But in order to do that, Ican't talk to myself.
Contrary to popular belief andpretty much what I've done for the
last 1 minute, 38 seconds, I do need
to bring someone else on.
And who else would I choosebut the beard that should never be
sheared?
It is, of course, Mister Gary Ehler.
All right, geese.
That's a good one, that, innit?
I see you smiling at that one.
(02:00):
I like it.
All right.
Yeah, it was all right, that nice.
Thank you.
Welcome, everybody.
Two, three, three.
Didn't you know?
Episode.
Is that what it is?
Going through them?
Yeah.
I like your rhyming intros as well.
I was expecting something abit spicy like, normally Mark takes
this opportunity.
We, Mark and I have known eachother for quite a few years now,
andwe've always got this kind of bounce
going on and, you know, you know,
usual lad bollocks, you know, lads,
lads, lads.
(02:25):
But I think Mark uses this anopportunity to get his little.
These little digs into me thathe wouldn't necessarily do.
So I was expecting something abit spicier, mate.
A bit more cutting, butmellowing as I age.
Better to lift people up thanit is to put them down.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
I.
Okay.
You're not gonna be on acathed board meeting anytime soon
then, mate.
(02:47):
No, I've not got a cutting edge.
I've actually been watchingsuccession recently.
You know that tv show that'sreally good?
It's a success, that show.
It's pretty brutal, isn't it?
Good?
Yeah, it's really good.
But I could.
I would.
I would.
I'd get fucking eaten alive, mate.
Well, yeah, same.
I was expecting, um.
I don't know, something.
(03:07):
I don't know is a Jedi on thestreets and a sith between the sheets
or some.
I was expecting some rhymingquite like that, actually.
But I'd have that.
I'll take that mate off, butI'll bank that away in a few months.
I'll dig it out and use thaton you.
All right.
All right.
Well, only the wording, Ihope, remember.
I know.
No, I'll never remember.
(03:28):
We are going to go into theold release thing and just talk about
it, because I think it's quite interesting
and we want to try and mix it up
alittle bit just for our own sanity
aswell as everyone else's sanity as
well, because the news is drying
up alittle bit, but we've not done it
for a while.
What Star wars stuff have youbeen up to this week?
Star wars stuff.
(03:49):
Keeping quick.
I'm carrying on with Star wars outlaws.
I'm loving that game so far.
Everyone seems to hate it, butthat seems to be the consensus for
everything these days online.
Is that true, though?
Because when I saw, like, thefirst week reviews and said it was
pretty good.
Yeah.
If you go on YouTube now andjust search for Star wars outlaws,
youhave, like, 80% swing.
Is like, people slating in 20people saying, I think it's a decent
game.
(04:13):
It's never going to win gameof the year, but it's a good playthrough,
and it's a great.
It's a great experience to bein that Star wars world, you know?
Well, because they're sayingthat the main character is not attractive
enough.
Fuck off.
That's not true.
Know what I mean?
And they're saying, no one'sdoing that.
(04:36):
Is that true?
I'm swear.
I swear, dude.
Right?
This is the crap that YouTube.
YouTube is doing.
Outlaws.
I am doing it.
Well, I need to have a look.
Yep.
And then also.
Because it's the.
Because it's the ten yearanniversary of Star Wars Rebels.
Believe it or not, I stuck onthe first episode of Rebels.
(04:57):
And that's actually a decentwatch, mate.
Yeah, he's good in it.
That first episode on Lothal.
And when you meet Ezra for thefirst time and the Empire.
What's he called?
Lothal.
No, no.
What's the episode called?
Oh, I can't remember the nameof the episode.
But you can't remember thename of the episode?
No.
A spark something, isn't it?
(05:17):
It's a.
It's spark something.
I can't remember the exact.
Probably not.
No, no.
What is it?
Spark of Rebellion.
But, yeah, it's a decentwatch, that.
And, dude, that's just how.
That's how long I've not seenthe episode for.
You watched it the other dayis literally listed when you press
the button next to the button.
(05:42):
Come on.
Like, if anything, like, itcould be.
Spark or something else.
Yeah.
Listeners will back me up on this.
If you're re watchingsomething that you've watched multiple
times, you don't pay attention to
episode titles anymore.
You just hit play and do it.
So rebellion was the episode,mate, that I watched, and it was.
(06:04):
It was a good watch.
What did you watch or do?
Anything?
Star wars ever?
Last week I read a book.
What was it called?
Began with.
It begins with an s.
Yeah, something.
Yeah.
Just.
Just looking at thoseyoutubers, right?
And I.
There's a lot of it, like thefailure of Star wars outlaws.
(06:25):
Shut up.
Or it's always these things,like, wish I'd known this before
Ibought Star wars outlaws.
Like, shut up.
Yeah.
You see what I mean, though, right?
It's very negative.
Yep, yep.
How the game is, you know,terrible and blah, blah, blah, blah.
Don't listen to any of thatshit if you've not played it yet.
(06:47):
It's a decent playthrough.
It's very good.
Well, you know, we will bedouble negatives.
We'll be negative to thenegative us, which turns it into
apositive, which is clear that obviously
that's a rule.
What have I done?
Well, so, since we last spoke,about a few weeks off through various
things, work, holidays and such,
like.
And I did finish the living force.
(07:11):
My man kev.
Yeah, he told me to.
So I got this other.
I always get Star wars books,like, when they come out.
So I got this rise and fall ofthe galactic Empire, which had been
really key keen to read.
And Kevin messaged me on FaceyB, saying, you got to read it.
And I was like, I need to getto it, mate.
As you know, I'm strugglingwith this living force.
And then one day I went backto him and I was like, start it,
mate.
(07:34):
And he went, ah, that meansyou finished living force.
Well done.
Yeah, it did take a while.
Three months it took.
Jeez.
Yeah, it really is.
And it was funny because,look, John Jackson Miller, I really,
really like his stuff.
Like, I'm gonna get Batmanresurrection, probably, which I think
might be out, like, this week.
Pre order that, mate.
Yeah, yeah.
(07:55):
Good shout.
Good shout.
I might kindle that one, youknow, because I can't see being one
that I read more than once, but I
might.
So I might kindle that one.
But, dude, living force isjust bitten off way too much.
Like, there's some good stuffin it, and there's, like, John Jackson
Miller.
So there's always a littleEaster egg.
(08:15):
And where it's set in thetimeline, there's always something
thatlinks to the next thing.
Brilliant.
Love that.
But man just bit off more thanhe could chew, I think.
It was like, okay, let's tell us.
Let's tell a story where alltwelve Jedi masters on the grand
grandmasters on the council have
gotto do something interesting, every
single one of them.
And it's just too much.
(08:35):
And there's that many movingparts to it that you're like, I'm
not really investing in any one bit
of it.
Plus throwing in, like, quigon and obi wan as well.
It's just like.
It was just a bit much, youknow, just.
And that's not to takeanything away from him, because he's
a great, great writer.
Great author.
Knows Star wars really well.
But it just.
(08:55):
That one is just like a threeout of star.
Three out, three out of fivestar, which is, like, still good.
It's like, you know, that'swhy class is good, but just a bit
much.
But this rise and fall, thegalactic Empire, I think I'm, like,
100 pages into it, a third of the
way into it in a week, which says
it all.
Oh, it's brilliant, mate.
Kev.
Kev said it was brill.
(09:16):
It's fantastic.
Kev knows his Star wars,doesn't he?
Knows his beans, don't he?
He wants to come back on theshow as well.
Just get him on.
Let's get everyone on.
Okay.
Now?
Not right now, notimmediately, no.
But let's arrange that.
All right?
Yeah.
Done?
Yeah.
Kev, you on?
(09:37):
Elsev make it so.
To quote Star wars.
Shut up.
Star wars fans are having a laugh.
Calm yourselves down.
Calm yourselves down.
We've got right member calledDanny, but I don't think he has any
podcast equipment to come on.
He's not into podcasting, the guy.
Not really, no.
We'll see, though.
See if we can get him something.
Snowball, whatever.
(09:58):
Do anything.
Yeah.
All right.
The release roller coaster.
Look, it's no, it's no.
I don't think it's a surpriseto anyone.
Is it that Star wars, sincethe acquisition in 2012, has been
known to announce things and then
never quite follow them through?
(10:24):
So we figured it would bequite nice to spend a little bit
oftime on that because we often spend
time on it.
You know, we digress a littlebit through our news articles, but
it's just quite interesting to see
this, I suppose, now almost with,
like, 1213 years behind us.
Like, the Force Awakens is tenyears old next year, which is wild,
man.
(10:46):
And, you know, if we cast ourmind back, October 2012 acquisition
wasannounced, I think, and revealed
theplans for the new trilogy start with
the Force Awakens.
Then they went through after this.
Force awakens, or around theForce Awakens time, it was like,
allright, look, we're gonna do these
anthology series, you know, rogue
one, a Star wars story, solo, a Star
wars story.
(11:10):
We'd heard Boba Fett, we'dheard Obi Wan Kenobi, so on and so
forth.
Disney plus came about 2020.
I think that launched in,like, February, March 2020.
And I.
And things just seemed to change.
A lot of the films got slated.
Certain things, like Obi Wanbecame limited series.
(11:33):
We saw the Clone wars resurrected.
Finishing that series off.
Ahsoka was announced.
Boba Fett was made into a tv show.
And I just feel like, youknow, even up to, like, 2023, like,
we were there at celebration when
they announced a lot of these movies.
We were in the room when theyannounced a couple of them.
And don't know, it just feelslike the excitement levels dropped
because how can we really trust it
anymore?
(12:02):
And then there's been thecritical reaction to a lot of these
things.
There's the dodgy fan basesort of divisiveness going on.
It just feels like a complexmaze of announcements and how to
really get this right.
And I think running alongsidethat, you've had all these kind of
weird failures in the DCU.
You've got, frankly, like, alot of failures on Marvel's side
since 2019, since Endgame, but before
that, like, they were cooking on
gas man, they'd release these phases
and they'd, for the most part, they'd
stick to them.
(12:32):
Maybe 80, 90% of them.
The things that got announcedwould get released and it just feels
wild that Star wars can't stick to
things.
And I.
I think the.
I don't know, a place for meto probably pick up is like, do you
think all this stems from what, looking
back, seems like a really incoherent
planfor the sequel trilogy?
(12:53):
Do you think that's where itall went a bit?
Did it all start with that?
Going a bit tits up, if I'mhonest, mate.
I think it started with solo.
I think that's where thingsstarted to fall.
You saw the crack start toshow a little bit.
Then I remember seeing amagazine article, can't remember
themag, but they, they alluded to all.
(13:14):
The crux of the story wasbefore solo, the peeps at Lucasfilm
andDisney assumed, but because it was
a Star wars project, it was just
anautomatic billion dollar film and
it was automatically going to do
well and all that stuff.
And then when Solo flopped alittle bit, I think that's when people
started to look up and be like, hmm,
we're gonna have to plan this a bit
more.
(13:39):
If I remember correctly, theplan was when they first bought.
When Disney first bought Lucasfilm.
I believe the plan was to do asaga style film one year and then
aspin off the following year and go
in that kind of cycle for at least
five, six years, whatever.
But, yeah, so I think whensolo not.
I still can't understand the.
(14:00):
If people think the flop isbecause it made a ton of money still,
right?
It still made.
It didn't make a billiondollars, but I think it still made
quite a ton of cash for them.
They considered it a flop, though.
Yeah, they did it, man saidworldwide, 400 million, but the budget
says the budget was 275 million.
(14:25):
I'm assuming that'sremarketing and promotional costs.
So it made like 125 million, which.
Yeah, so they would considerthat a flop, right?
Yeah, exactly.
So I think it's from thatpoint, mate, I think from then on,
they were like, okay, we can't guarantee
that something with the Star wars
badge on it is going to return big
bucks.
(14:45):
So from that point on, theycanceled the spin off films.
And then I think as anoffshoot of that, it was like, we're
not doing all this other stuff, so
let's put all of our time in the
sequels.
But that didn't land either.
So, yeah, you had this kind ofdomino effect so I think, for me,
Ithink from solo, you then start to
see the cracks show, and then.
(15:09):
Well, do you think that was limited?
Do you think that was almostsort of fell foul of the Last Jedi's
sort of dodgy halo effect, do you
think, from the fan base?
Because that was, like, May2018 when solo came out, which, you
know, you'd say may summer blockbuster.
(15:32):
You know what else came out?
May 2018 or what was May 2018movie releases, like, what big marvel
ones?
Oh, it was Infinity war aroundthat time, wasn't it?
Oh, there you go.
But that was that, like, June time?
Mm hmm.
Yeah, I just.
I just wonder if it was, like,something to do with it coming off
the back of the Last Jedi changing,
orDeadpool two came out changing, like,
oh, yeah.
(16:02):
So Avengers, Infinity forInfinity War was April 27, Deadpool
2,May 18, the week after a solo.
But, yeah, just.
I just.
Just wonder if there was thatInfinity War issue, the fact that
Star wars films up until then have
been Christmas releases.
So it was a thing.
And then on the back of theLast Jedi, like, did it just get
alittle bit of backlash because Star
wars fans were, oh, you've screwed
up.
(16:28):
Luke Skywalker.
Are you gonna do the same toHan Solo?
And then there was, like, thereshoots or the rewrites, the director
changes, the Ron Howard stuff, you
know, I just wonder if it was, like,
several little things that added
upto that.
Yeah, probably, dude.
I think because a lot morethings are documented now, and you
have a lot more leaks and everything
goingon, I think people are just more
aware of what's going on behind the
scenes a little bit more.
(16:55):
So all those little thingsthat happen along the way, because
backin the day when they were making
theoriginal trilogy, that was such a
troubled production, especially that
first film, but because there was
no social media and there's nothing
going on that you could latch onto.
So if there was a leak thatsaid, you know, I don't know, George
Lucas has been, you know, a naughty
boywith something that then overshadows
theentire production.
(17:22):
And so you think, ah, this isnot good or not even anything untoward,
but if there was a leak that said,
like, the script isn't working, you
know, like, with Obi Wan, the tv
show on Disney, they had that thing,
didn't they?
Where it leaked that thescript wasn't quite ready, so they
put it back, the release date back
so they could work on the scripts,
andeveryone lost their shit over that.
It was like, oh, my God, it'sgoing to be a disaster.
(17:44):
You know, Obi Wan's done.
See you later.
And then I think it took EwanMcGregor to come out and say, everyone
just shut the.
You know, this happens onpretty much every single film and
tv show.
You just don't know about it.
So this is completely normal.
You know, it's all good.
Go back to what you weredoing, and you'll enjoy Obi Wan,
youknow, a little bit later than usual.
(18:06):
So I think when you havethings like that as well, if people
are a lot more aware of behind the
scenes and whatnot.
So when you have.
You're talking about all thelittle details when you have something,
the way that Luke was handled in
the last Jedi coupled with Cath doesn't
know what she's doing to, you know,
solos a disaster, you know, on from
that, you just have this snowball
effect.
(18:29):
So by the time you get roundto finishing the sequel trilogy,
youknow, the.
All the controversy and thefan opinion, it's got more media
attention and more traction than
thefilms themselves.
So then what do you do, thenfor forward planning?
You know, you talking earlierabout all these things that get announced.
(18:50):
Sorry.
And they don't quite followthrough and we don't get them, you
know, is that because they're just
so worried about pleasing certain
fansor not pleasing certain people and
firing directors, firing writers,
getting, you know, gone are the days,
mate, where, um, it's a case of,
like you and I used to do years ago
and still do to a degree today.
(19:12):
It's like, just ship it.
Just do the thing.
Ship it.
It'll be fine.
You know, there's that little.
There's something cool aboutthat sort of feeling of flying by
the seat of your pants just a little
bit, you know, so you haven't got
everything completely nailed.
You're going on instinct alittle bit.
So now I think every littledetail is mapped out and planned
andaccounted for, and so I think that's
affected things, mate.
(19:37):
So, yeah, from.
From the last Jedi anddefinitely solo, you have all these
little things that culminate into
abit of a shit show.
I think you're right about the people.
Just wouldn't know a lot ofthe behind the scenes if it weren't
forthe world that we live in right now.
And also, I do think theyoutubers, we joke about it a lot,
but they need clicks.
(19:59):
And the way to get clicks isto put something clickbait in.
Clickbaity stuff is oftennegative or listical stuff or sensationalized
versions of tidbits of information
thathave been blown out of proportion
or madeinto things contextually that they
just aren't.
And it feels like, I wonder ifStar wars just gets that as much
as,like, Marvel and everyone else does.
(20:25):
I just wonder if they get thatquite a lot because you, like, it's
easier to beat up on stuff than say,
I really enjoyed that, or, I'm really
looking forward to this for this
reason, you know, who's that going
to activate?
It's not going to activate anyone.
You're not going to get viewson that.
And, you know, the directorchanges back in the day.
(20:47):
Like, Batman forever, right?
Went on to gross, like, wasthe highest grossing film of certainly
ofthat, like, quarter, I think, like
second or third of that year, 95.
And it just.
You would never have.
Who gives a crap that Keatonhad left and Joel Schumacher took
over from Burton or, you know, whatever
Robin Williams was pissed about what
happened to him with the joker in
the Batman, so just didn't take the
Riddler gig, you know, no one knew
about any of that until much later.
(21:18):
It's just totally different.
It's just totally different now.
And I don't think thatnecessarily helps.
It's.
People just see every versionof it and they don't need to.
I've got a little bit of asoft spot for Batman forever.
Oh, yeah?
How grateful?
Great film.
You know, it's hated, isn't it?
(21:39):
Especially Batman and Robin,but Batman forever, I don't know.
Batman Forever's great, man.
It was the highest release,highest box office gross in 1995.
Apollo 13, toy story, aceVentura, dyad with a vengeance.
Absolute classic.
Goldeneye, Waterworld.
What the fuck?
Water.
(21:59):
Okay, seven, so.
And, dude, Batman Forever's agreat movie.
It's like the.
It's the.
It's the, you know, you justaccept that it's just not part of
the Burton universe.
Those two films stand alone.
Forever stands alone.
And Batman and Robin, you sortof have a bit of a laugh with.
Yeah, Batman and Robin is justa different type of Batman film.
It's great.
But, like, look, I suppose.
(22:21):
Look at Batman.
When Keaton was cast, all theletters that went in.
Imagine that now, even to apoint like when Heath Ledger got
cast.
What are you doing?
You an idiot?
And then you look now atwhat's happening with, like, David
Corin sweat in the DCU.
People are beating up on thefilm before they even know it.
And I just feel like Star warsprobably gets a lot of that, the
tvshows get a lot of that, and it's
probably a lot of it's delivered
bypeople that have just got a very
setvision of what they want.
(22:51):
And I think a lot of peoplemight have been let down by the last
Jedi enough because they expected
lootto be a certain way.
And that then, you know, yeah, this.
Is a really big problem, Ithink, for writers and whatnot over
at Lucasfilm, because I can't.
(23:11):
I can identify with that on acertain level.
So as a, as a.
I've been a designer now for,Dunno, 14 years, 15 years, something
like that.
And I can tell you now, one ofthe biggest problems that designers
haveis when they send work over and they
send work in to be looked at and
approved, whatever.
The biggest battle, the battleis not, do you think the work is
any good?
(23:34):
That's not the problem.
The.
I think the main problem isthe person that you're sending the
work out to.
They've already got apreconceived image in their head
ofwhat they wanted to see.
And if what you've produceddoesn't quite align with that, even
if it's great work, it will always
bea, yeah, you know, not really what
we're looking for.
(23:56):
So I can, I can absolutely seefrom both sides of the camp almost.
It's like from Fandom's pointof view, you know, you've got people
that are queuing up thinking this
isgoing to be different actors and
different things, but, you know,
it'sstill going to be a Batman film,
still going to be great, because
thelast two were brilliant.
And then you get that andyou're like, that's not what I was
expecting.
(24:17):
So that equals rubbish orequals bad, whatever.
So I imagine it's a similarthing with the old, the old Star
wars dudes that Lucasfilm, they're
soup against it because you've got
all this fandom and it's almost like
dudes fandom split into two sects
almost as well.
You've got the people that arejust happy to just be chill about
Star wars, right?
(24:40):
They don't love it.
They don't hate it.
They appreciate it's a Starwars film, might like certain aspects
of it great, you know, whatever.
I didn't hate book of Boba Fett.
Didn't love it.
Didn't hate return the Jedi.
It's not my favorite Star warsfilm, whatever.
But then you've got this othercamp and, you know, we've mentioned
theseguys a lot, like the youtubers who
are doing the rounds and have done
for the last year or so, like Star
wars theory.
(25:05):
Nerd crotic, geeks and gamers,all these sorts of guys, they just,
you know, they will just destroy
everything because they're not.
The people at Lucasfilmhaven't phoned them before and said,
look, tell me about when you're eight
years old, Christmas morning, watching
Star wars.
(25:25):
Tell me how you feel at that point.
Put yourself in your shoesthen, and I'll make a Star wars film
that appeals to your nostalgic memory
of that moment.
So they don't have that, youknow, they don't have that experience
likethey used to.
So that equals wrong straightaway, because it's not what they're
expecting.
So, um, yeah, it's a verysimilar thing with the Batman stuff
as well.
(25:48):
We just said, I think theexception being the Nolan stuff,
perhaps, I don't know, because that
was already.
That was pretty.
That was given to you in a waythat was like, even before the first
film came out, is like, this is going
to be way different.
Way different.
Whereas the sequel trilogy,dude, if we think about that, that
wasn't marketed as, like, this is
a brand new era of Star wars.
(26:10):
This is a.
This is gonna be a brand new thing.
It was like, all the dudesthat you know and love are in it.
C three.
Po R two.
Luke's probably gonna be in it.
You know, there's a trailerwith what's his face, so.
But then you did.
But then they did try anddouble back a bit.
It's like, I don't know, Rey'slike, the new thing.
Like, raise the new face ofStar wars.
(26:32):
Then we've got, you know, theblack dude.
Don't worry about his name.
You won't remember his name.
He's just the black dude.
Maybe he'll be a Jedi.
Probably won't be because he's black.
So you had all this stuffgoing on, dude, and I think that
tampers with your.
Your perception of it.
I mean, how do.
The Rey film is meant to becanceled, right.
(26:53):
The upcoming Rey film, if youbelieve all the rumors and stuff,
it'sdefinitely on hold.
They've done the same thingthat they did with Obi.
Wanna.
Hmm.
They were like, script's not working.
Story's not there.
Let's can this off.
We'll come back to it in alittle while once it's done.
So that then fuels, like, allthese youtubers.
Who, the other guys that we mentioned?
Is it Mike Zero?
(27:14):
Always Mike zero.
Yeah.
I think you make some goodpoints, dude.
I think some of the challengethat you've got with Star wars is
very unique to Star wars as well,
because you've got like, I think
theHarry Potter series will struggle
withthis as well, the HBO series, because
in theory that should be ten times
better than the movies.
I like the movies.
I like the Harry Potter movies.
But then they're not thebooks, and the books are really deep
and they're really good and they're
very well put together.
(27:40):
And the HBO Max series cantell a seasonal story, you know,
onebook over 7 hours, 8 hours, 6 hours,
whatever, but not two and a half
hours or in like with the Deathly
hallows, whatever, 5 hours.
And the, I think the Star warsissue tends to be, as you alluded
tolike, you've got a lot of people
thatare very vocal that are paying the
bills for the people that are enjoying
Star wars.
(28:09):
So the kids that are watchingAhsoka and thinking, fucking, ah,
this is cool.
It's Ahsoka.
Their mums and dads, orprobably their dads are like, that's
not Star wars because that's not
making them feel like you said how
they felt when they were eight years
old.
But you know, Star wars alwaysbeen for kids.
We know that.
But if you think about what doyou then do as Lucasfilm?
(28:30):
If you try and write for thatguy, they're always pissed off because
they don't want the old stuff because
it's not like the old stuff.
Like if you put Luke Skywalkerin, who's the same at 60 as they
areat 19, I can't think of anyone.
And so you can't tell thatstory to please them.
So then you think, well, I'lldo new stuff with new characters
or oldcharacters, and we'll try and maybe
recapture some of the magic that
youwant or you classes magic.
(28:59):
And they don't like thatbecause it's not Louis Skywalker.
And so, you know, but thenthat's, the complexity levels are
then compounded by the fact that
nowthe people are coming of age that
love the prequels, and it's always,
even according to George Lucas, it's
always been Anakin's story.
But yet you sort of ignoreAnakin in the sequel trilogy.
So you get, like, from a storyperspective, I don't think, I don't
think any other franchise has got
that problem.
(29:27):
I think you could argue that,like probably Marvel and DC have
gotthat problem to a degree, but the
only basis that they've got is it's
from the comics and the get out of
jail there is, well, this is an adaptation
of a comic and obviously it's not
going to be the same.
And a lot of people just go,well, that's fine.
We get that because it'smedium to medium, and it feels.
(29:51):
It just feels like style.
I can't think of anything elsethat's got that.
That's got that problem.
It's almost like if they triedto make a back to the future sequel,
it would.
Unless it was very special,people would batter it because the
effects would be better than back
tothe future.
Two.
We don't actually want better effects.
(30:12):
We want it to look a bitjankier because that's what we love
about it.
And, you know, I just feellike that nostalgia element, it's
like when you go back to your old
school, holy shit, innit?
It's like, oh, yeah, Iremember being here and I remember
itbeing good, and I also remember it,
like, in certain other ways, but
Idon't really give a crap about being
here.
(30:36):
Why am I here?
Who cares?
It's not changed my memory ofit, you know?
And I think what you expectin, from Star wars and from Lucasfilm
andDisney is you expect, like you said,
you're expecting them to honor your
own personal memory.
You know, it's why peoplealways say the book's better than
the film, because you interpret how
the character's taught, you interpret
thevisuals of the character, you interpret
the landscape.
(30:58):
And when it looks different onfilm, it's never going to be as good.
Never going to be as good.
So I think that can be really problematic.
I just wonder if, because ofall that, and let's be honest, Disney's
not, not wholeheartedly, not to blame
on this one, because it did make
afew missteps.
(31:22):
I don't think it's wise toannounce a pile of stuff, rescind
it,then announce another pile of stuff,
rescind it, then keep announcing.
Like, surely just learn your lesson.
I think that's a problem.
But do you think this is justputting people off?
Do you think, like, guys likeyou and me, we see more negative
on itthan we did two years ago?
Like, we've got.
We're all.
We're more apathetic about itthan we were two years ago?
(31:44):
Yeah, we are.
And I think it's a problem if you're.
If you consume content, if.
If you're the sort of personthat doesn't give a shit about social
media, you're not on it that much
and you're not on YouTube a lot and
stuff like that, I think you're.
I think those sorts of peepsare normally okay because you're
justgoing through life, appreciate and
enjoying what you should be, right.
(32:10):
Which is your family and yourmates and travel and seeing the world
and enjoying books, all that stuff.
You're not drawn into the, um,what would you call it?
Echo chamber, whatever it'scalled, you know?
Exactly.
Yeah.
You're not drawn into all thatstuff because you honestly don't
care.
Like, if Lucasfilm said, orDisney said, we've got a new Star
wars film that's due out in 2025.
(32:34):
That was announced in 2023,you're like, oh, sweet, that'll be
good.
When we go to cinema to seethat, and then it gets cancelled
and youfind out through a friend, I'm looking
forward to that Star wars film.
Oh, mate, that's been cancelled.
Oh, all right, then.
So that's.
If you're that sort of person,then I think it's.
It's not going to put you offbecause you're just sort of, you
know, whatever.
(32:57):
But I think for the majorityof fandom, which links back to what
you're saying about Star wars having
aunique problem, so many people are
vocal, have got a voice on it, that
it becomes an issue, and it also
links back to what we're saying earlier
about people being exposed to what's
going on behind the scenes a lot
more.
So if you've got a load of.
(33:18):
And I agree, if you're gonnaannounce a bunch of stuff and then
keep canceling it and whatever, that's
not good.
And that does add to the wholejust putting people off, because
itcreates some.
I think it creates a kind of.
There's no confidence inwhat's going on now.
(33:39):
You know, if you've got a solid.
And I think you and I havementioned this a few times, mate,
because they don't have a feige,
and Ithink Cath wanted to be that, to
adegree, but she's.
Yeah, she's clearly not that,because they don't have someone like
Feige who does oversee all the stuff
at Marvel.
(33:59):
And let's be honest, not manyfilms have slipped.
Marvel don't typicallyannounce a slew of films and then
cancel them or whatever.
I think they've missed, like,you know, missed a few, but not nothing
along the lines of Star wars and
Disney and whatnot.
So I think because there's noone like that.
It creates this air sometimesof, like, well, even this, when this
film does land, if it lands like
this Ray film, for example, is it
gonna be shit?
(34:29):
Because we've had a script.
And that's been shit.
So they've delayed it and haveto redo it.
You know, it just creates thatkind of, you know, what are they
doing over there?
Sort of thing.
And that's always been amassive surprise to me.
Dude, I've never, ever beenable to figure that one out in that
you've got somebody at the top of
the tree, right?
Whether that's Bob Iger, theother guy who took over for a while
before Bob came back.
(34:55):
You've got people like that atthe very top and from the top down,
you've.
If you ignore all the otherstuff and just look at Marvel and
Star wars, you've got Marvel over
here who make a ton of cash.
The majority of their filmsare well received.
They've had some clangers,especially on the Disney stuff, be
honest.
(35:17):
But for the most part, theirstuff is well received.
They mostly hit deadlines.
It's all good on this side of it.
Looking down on Star wars.
It's just a shit show.
They're missing their deadlines.
They're cancelling all oftheir shit.
Everything they put out is onemassive backlash.
People are leaving all therest of it.
I've never understood whysomebody at the top doesn't say,
howdo we sort that out?
(35:41):
Who do we need to bring overfrom here over to there to sort that
out?
Or who do we need to bring inthat's, like, this person over here,
all these people, so that this doesn't
keep happening?
I've never.
I don't know what the answerto that is, dude, but that's a weird
one.
It's a tough one as well,because you want, you know, if you
think about the Marvel stuff, you've
got Iron man, which is a pure action
superhero movie.
(36:09):
Yeah, I would put that in thevein of, like, a very simplistic,
straightforward, very good, you know,
but very straightforward movie.
Captain America, a bit of aperiod piece, winter Soldier, espionage
piece.
You've got Ant man heistmovie, you know, and then you start
to get into some of the other stuff
where they're trying to sort of diversify
the way they tell stories and then,
like, daredevil and stuff.
(36:37):
That's very, very different.
Very, very different.
Very, very, very different.
Dude, that first series ofDaredevil, by the way, brilliant.
Fantastic.
Yeah.
So good.
You look at that in comparisonto, like, Star wars.
Like, they try to do differentthings, and whether you like the
acolytes, a prime example, whether
youlike it or not, whether you feel
it's forced inclusion or not, a lot
of it was bad storytelling.
(37:04):
It was.
But that gets outshone, andthe genuine critical thinking gets
outshone by the dickheads that just
don't like inclusivity or get pissed
off that it's two witches, or get
pissed off that there's more representation
across the board.
Like, no one's pissed off thatCamille is not a caucasian british
male.
(37:30):
No one's pissed at thatthey're annoyed at the two witches
orthe black girl.
And you're like, what the fuckis wrong with you?
And, you know, it's not theproblem that I think you've then
gota Star wars is I.
You can introduce things likethe High Republic, which is, as a
book series, comic series is really
good.
(37:54):
When you try and translatethem, they just fall foul of the
Luke Skywalker thing, because the
people that are slaying it just want
to see Luke Skywalker.
But when they do, they're not happy.
The only time we all gotexcited, and I'm counting us in this
as well, was when Luke Skywalker
wasreturn of the Jedi, Luke Skywalker
in theMandalorian, and that was badass.
(38:14):
We just got more of.
More of something that we'dalready seen that we really enjoyed,
delivered in a way that we wanted
tosee it.
But not everything has to be that.
And I think that's one of thechallenges with Star wars, is that
everyone, it has to be, like you
said earlier, it has to be this or
this, and if it's this, it's right.
And if it's this, it's wrong.
(38:35):
And that's absolute rubbish.
And, I mean, I don't know howyou fix it.
I mean, I clean house.
Well, I'd wonder if you do.
I wonder if you just get.
Just cancel everything, right?
And get Dave Filoni to writeus Luke Skywalker, something.
Recast it.
Put Sebastian, Stan, orsomeone else there, and just go write
me a Luke Skywalker thing in the
mandalorian timeline, and let's just
fucking have at it, and let's just.
(39:04):
Then let's bring everythingelse back in.
Yeah, Starbucks felony.
Right?
So let's go to this website,chatgpt.com, compose a script for
me looking positive fandom over the
last year for a Skywalker dude.
Yeah, I mean, you're right.
That is one option, right?
(39:25):
Is to just reset everything.
Just have a hard reset, andjust have.
I don't mean narratively or in canon.
I mean, like, the people thatare there at Lucasfilm at the minute
to keep hold of Filoni and Favreau.
Because those who, those twohave least got half a brain cell
that's got a Star wars badge on it,
right?
(39:45):
At least those two know, to adegree, how to make good stuff.
Favreau knows how to make thebig, successful blockbuster films.
Filoni knows how to do thesuccessful animation and that stuff.
You put those two together, Ithink that's a good one.
That's one option.
The other option is that youjust clear the lot out.
You just say, look, kath,darling, this is not working right.
(40:09):
You must be pissed off with this.
We're all pissed off with it.
Just go and get yourStarbucks, go home, you know, put
you on garden, leave, whatever, and
we're gonna get someone else in.
And that way Disney can thenspend some money that's gonna get
adecent return.
Because you can then justpinch, if you've got the money there,
you can pinch some writers who have
done this stuff successfully.
(40:32):
You can look into, like, theDC writers, you know, like, all the
cool writers that have done DC tv
over the years.
Like the guy that did arrow,the guy that did, um, the adventures
ofSuperman, um, Superman and Lois.
You know, that recent series,I think it was, um, Jeff Loeb.
(40:52):
Right.
I think.
Anyway, those type of guysthat have, like.
No, like, what's the best wayto put it?
Who can take something likeStar wars and absolutely know the
law and the characters?
What's going.
Balance, I think, is key.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Just find out what's going to work.
(41:13):
So basically, you just draftin this new, new series of writers
andcreators who have been there and
done it and have not only got the
tshirt, but, you know, all the rest
of it, and you can just have this
new direction, mate.
Just keep.
Keep what works, but you'vejust, you know, changed it up.
Because at the moment, itfeels like we're kind of going round
in circles a little bit because you've
got cath at the top, you.
(41:39):
And I don't know her Percy, ofcourse, so we don't know what she's
saying behind the scenes or and all
that stuff, but it just feels like
something goes out and it's dreadful.
Like the acolyte and becauseshe's got a company hat on, she has
to say, well, the reason why it failed
is because all of these youtubers
areslating it.
(42:00):
And the reason why it failedis because all these people hated
itand your voice was louder than the
people that liked it.
One, what she should besaying, but she can't say, is, yeah,
I agree.
It was a piece of shit.
I put my faith in the peoplemaking it because I personally couldn't
write a Star wars script.
So I put the faith in thesepeople who can do it.
I saw it and thought it wasshit, but I can't press, like, the
eject button because we spent $300
million.
(42:27):
So I think we just need aclean house, mate.
That's what I would do.
But it's such a difficultthing when you've got something like
Disney, where they've got investor
days,they've got stock to think about.
You know, if you just suddenlysay, I'm pausing some of the biggest
ipthat we own from a tv and movie and
gaming and multimedia standpoint,
obviouslythe stock takes it.
(42:48):
Someone's getting fired.
It's not as easy.
It'd be lovely if it was aseasy as doing that, but I just don't
know how you approach that.
And I think this underlyingsubtext of just people being.
People complaining aboutwokeness and whatever that even means
these days.
I'm not even sure they evenknow what that means.
You know, if it's someone thatdoesn't look like you, that's.
(43:10):
That's in a tv show, thatdoesn't mean it's woke, you know?
And I just.
I don't know how you deal withthat because you've got.
There were genuine concerns,like I said, with things like the
acolyte, the rise of Skywalker.
I can't think of really anybook of Boba Fett, but a lot of people
just said, oh, this is Walt Disney
shit.
(43:32):
And now what you're seeing is,you know, you'll get, like, and or
season two, a trailer.
I would imagine we'll get atrailer for that pretty soon.
You then see, like, on some ofthe websites in the comments section,
not even bothering watching this
Walt Disney shit.
And you're like, well, youabsolute bell end, of course.
Like, if you.
If that's what you're puttingout there, then you will find something
not to like.
(43:56):
You will find something not tolike because you're looking for it
at that point.
And I just.
I wonder if that subtext isactually becoming more.
More prominent now and does itaffect decision making?
Does it affect.
Because we all don't want thatlevel of shite to exist, you know,
idiots be idiots, but it shouldn't
affectwhat genuine fans do and what they
want.
(44:25):
But then if you're a studio, Idon't know how you account for decision
making when, you know, we know what
it's like.
Review bombing is a thingpeople can go and brought onto my
own.
We live in a world whereaggregated things mount up into a
collective opinion which can subjectively
affect the box office.
And I don't know how you dealwith that as a business.
And I just feel like Star warsis probably, like I said, susceptible
tothat more than anyone because, you
know, there's three or four generations
offans that have gone through it now.
(44:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, I agree, dude.
It's a.
And when I say about cleaninghouse as well, I don't mean like
snap of the fingers and like, on
aFriday, everyone's gone.
On a Monday, it's like new people.
Um, but you could certainlystart at the top, right?
(45:17):
You could certainly say, look,Kathman sack, Mickey Mouse.
You got.
Yeah, Mickey, you're out, dude.
Yeah, get on your steamboat.
Goof it.
And you.
Thank you.
Yeah.
So get them out.
And then just get someone inthat can, then transition that.
See, if it takes a year to dothat, then fine, keep all of felony
and all that lot.
(45:38):
But then that person at thetop can then be like, right, okay.
I've seen what's not working,so we're going to address all that.
So that's what I mean.
Like, you know, transition thetop level dudes out, and then you
keep the successful, talented writers
and stuff.
You maintain that it's beenlike any industry, dude.
Like the games industry,typically you have these studios
wherethe top execs don't have a fucking
clueabout what gamers actually want and
stuff like that.
(46:05):
But then you've got thisreally talented team of developers
anddesigners and stuff that actually
makein the thing and care about the story
and stuff.
But ultimately what happens isif something doesn't go very well
ordoesn't sell very well, it's those
guys that get laid off and then the
top execs are like, right onto the
next project that's probably going
to bomb.
But it's cool, though, becausewe made a few bucks, so that's all
right.
(46:26):
So I feel like it's a littlebit like that with the movie industry.
Like these days you have thesepeople at the top, but I keep saying
Cath did, but unfortunately, she's
the woman with a name above the door.
Do you know what I mean?
So, you know, we keep havingthese projects where not all of them,
but some of them are just really
notlanded at all.
Starting with the sequeltrilogy, man.
(46:47):
And like, that really did turnthe tide, I think.
Yeah.
For fandom in a way, I thinkpeople could put up with solo to
adegree because it was, quote unquote,
just a spin off.
But when the last Jedi,Hitman, I think that was.
Yeah, so don't know.
But then what's the crackwith, like, future stuff, dude, if
we're talking about stuff that they
keep announcing and canceling, if
we got anything to look forward to.
(47:13):
I was just sort of looking atthat to wrap up on because I think
it's a good place to leave it.
Like, I don't, and we don'teven really know the status of anything
at the minute.
So we've got the mandalorianand grogu that we know always, we
suspect is coming out May 22, 2026.
The re movie, we don't knowthe new Jedi Order, one, whether
that'sbeen cancelled or not.
(47:36):
Taika Waititi, we think that'sjust got binned very recently.
The James Mangold film, isthat still on?
Rogue Squadron, that's kind ofbeen delayed.
And.
Or season two, we know he's coming.
Ahsoka season two, we probablyknow he's coming.
Acolyte cancelled.
Lando, is that coming?
We don't know.
(47:56):
It keeps flipping and flopping.
TBC, probably more Star warsvisions, probably more tale of the
Jedi, which would actually be quite
cool, obviously, the young Jedi adventures
that sort of carries on.
But then we've got, like, theKevin Feige film, the Rian Johnson
trilogy.
We've had the cancelled, theguys from loft, lind Loft and all
those guys and the Benioff and Weiss
ones.
(48:20):
And I just feel like thethings that we're really looking
forward to, like, the heir to the
Empire stuff is sort of being overshadowed
by, like, okay, we've got skeleton
crewcoming out, but no one really knows
what to expect from that.
And they've just done the same again.
Or Sean Levy's gonna do a filmbecause he's hot off Deadpool, and
you're like, well, so in short, the
only things that we know about, I
think a skeleton crew, heir to the
Empire.
(48:50):
Mando and Grogu, Ahsoka season two.
I said Andor season two,didn't I?
To the Empire.
Yeah, to the Empire.
And then we've got.
But then we have got,theoretically, three release dates
that are pencilled in for Star wars
films.
(49:10):
We've got one in May and onein December 2026 and then December
2027.
So I don't know, mate.
I mean, I think I'm at thepoint now personally, like, until
Isee a trailer, I'm just not convinced
it's gonna come out until I literally
seea trailer.
Yeah, same.
(49:31):
I think one of those dates wasreserved for the Ray.
The Ray film.
Right.
So they might flip it.
They might keep the date andput something else in there.
I don't know of any otherfilms that are forever enough along
that they can start production on
anything.
Certainly not the Sean Levy film.
(49:51):
I think he's only just started that.
Right?
Working on that.
Well, he seems to be doingwhat Feige was doing and what Waititi
had been asked to do, which is like,
there's your creative freedom.
Like Mangold getting his, youknow, dawn of the force sort of film,
and then they go to seem to go to
Star wars, to the board and the balls,
like, nah, not doing that.
Not a fan of that.
(50:12):
Yeah, I don't know, man.
So I think, yeah, we had onein May and 1 December 2026.
It's probably gonna be a caseof there's just one film now.
Okay.
Or something in 2026 and thenanother film in 2027.
One of those being the Filonimandoversting, the other one, dude,
who bloody knows.
(50:35):
TB Bloody c.
Been interesting to talk about that.
I think you could sort of goon about that for quite a while and
go down so many different paths.
(50:55):
So maybe we'll explore a fewof those, get some other opinions
aswell, get some guests on.
We'll come back to the news,of course, as and when.
There's plenty of news outthere, but there's no sense as just
recapping, you know, these.
These moved and shaken andcancelled movies and tv shows as
they come out.
So we'll wait until there'senough news to do a good, solid news
episode or we'll maybe do a new segment
as we move forward.
(51:18):
We'll just see how.
I suppose we'll just see howthings land.
It's an ever changing world ofStar wars.
So let us know what youthought of this slightly different
episode where it's basically just
afull episode of digression, which
iswhat we're here for.
The only way to build a podcast.
Two men chatting about stuff.
Obviously it's the format, butno, it's always been a pleasure.
(51:38):
Sparklerebellion.com supportif you want to grab yourself a sticker
or send us your love.
Can do that.
Sparkofrebellion.com supportand Gazzler.
Been fun.
One that, mate.
Cheers.
Ears.
See there on the next.
Yeah, it's been good.
Just.
It feels like some chats thatwe've had at pub or at Christmas
dance or whatever.
(52:00):
First day down at.
Down at pub.
Talking about style.
Yeah, it's been good, man.
So, yeah, we'll probably mixit up, I think.
Dude, I like this.
Let's.
Let's keep the news for whenthere's some actually decent news,
and we'll deep dive into Star wars
moments.
Cool.
So, thank you very much, dearlistener, for listening to another
episode.
That was 233, so, thank youvery much, and we will see you next
time.
(52:22):
And until then, take care ofyourselves, and may the force be
with you always.
Hello there.
We would be honored if youwould join us.
Spark of Rebellion.
Hello and welcome to Spark ofRebellion, the weekly Star wars podcast
that brings you news, views, and
updates from a galaxy far, far away.
(00:24):
I'm your host with the most,and this week, the right mic.
I allegedly had my mic set tomy computer microphone as a professional
podcaster last time we spoke, but
nonetheless, I am here.
I am mark, of course.
And today we're going to mixthings up a little bit.
Normally we do a little bit ofnews, but honestly, Star wars news
is getting a little bit repetitive
andit's drying up a little bit.
(00:47):
Time of year, probably time ofbloody cats on all the dishes.
Took a leitch from a break, probably.
I don't know, speculation andthings have just dried up a little
bit.
So we're gonna actually tryand we're actually gonna try and
dosomething a little bit different
over thenext few weeks.
Maybe intersperse a little bitof opinions, maybe bring some of
the segments back that we've probably
not done for like 203 episodes.
(01:09):
But whatever, who's counting?
I'm not counting, but you knowthe drill.
If you enjoy it, let us know.
Kev, Danny, everyone thatjoins us@sparkarebellion.com.
support and is one of the crew.
We thank you and appreciateyou and do let us know what you think.
So we're gonna go into today,we're gonna talk about the release,
roller coaster, Disney Star wars
movies, tv show announcements, and
why they keep sort of flipping and
flopping and maybe getting a few
things a little bit wrong.
(01:39):
It's gonna be quiteinteresting, I think.
But in order to do that, Ican't talk to myself.
Contrary to popular belief andpretty much what I've done for the
last 1 minute, 38 seconds, I do need
to bring someone else on.
And who else would I choosebut the beard that should never be
sheared?
It is, of course, Mister Gary Ehler.
All right, geese.
That's a good one, that, innit?
I see you smiling at that one.
(02:00):
I like it.
All right.
Yeah, it was all right, that nice.
Thank you.
Welcome, everybody.
Two, three, three.
Didn't you know?
Episode.
Is that what it is?
Going through them?
Yeah.
I like your rhyming intros as well.
I was expecting something abit spicy like, normally Mark takes
this opportunity.
We, Mark and I have known eachother for quite a few years now,
andwe've always got this kind of bounce
going on and, you know, you know,
usual lad bollocks, you know, lads,
lads, lads.
(02:25):
But I think Mark uses this anopportunity to get his little.
These little digs into me thathe wouldn't necessarily do.
So I was expecting something abit spicier, mate.
A bit more cutting, butmellowing as I age.
Better to lift people up thanit is to put them down.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
I.
Okay.
You're not gonna be on acathed board meeting anytime soon
then, mate.
(02:47):
No, I've not got a cutting edge.
I've actually been watchingsuccession recently.
You know that tv show that'sreally good?
It's a success, that show.
It's pretty brutal, isn't it?
Good?
Yeah, it's really good.
But I could.
I would.
I would.
I'd get fucking eaten alive, mate.
Well, yeah, same.
I was expecting, um.
I don't know, something.
(03:07):
I don't know is a Jedi on thestreets and a sith between the sheets
or some.
I was expecting some rhymingquite like that, actually.
But I'd have that.
I'll take that mate off, butI'll bank that away in a few months.
I'll dig it out and use thaton you.
All right.
All right.
Well, only the wording, Ihope, remember.
I know.
No, I'll never remember.
(03:28):
We are going to go into theold release thing and just talk about
it, because I think it's quite interesting
and we want to try and mix it up
alittle bit just for our own sanity
aswell as everyone else's sanity as
well, because the news is drying
up alittle bit, but we've not done it
for a while.
What Star wars stuff have youbeen up to this week?
Star wars stuff.
(03:49):
Keeping quick.
I'm carrying on with Star wars outlaws.
I'm loving that game so far.
Everyone seems to hate it, butthat seems to be the consensus for
everything these days online.
Is that true, though?
Because when I saw, like, thefirst week reviews and said it was
pretty good.
Yeah.
If you go on YouTube now andjust search for Star wars outlaws,
youhave, like, 80% swing.
Is like, people slating in 20people saying, I think it's a decent
game.
(04:13):
It's never going to win gameof the year, but it's a good playthrough,
and it's a great.
It's a great experience to bein that Star wars world, you know?
Well, because they're sayingthat the main character is not attractive
enough.
Fuck off.
That's not true.
Know what I mean?
And they're saying, no one'sdoing that.
(04:36):
Is that true?
I'm swear.
I swear, dude.
Right?
This is the crap that YouTube.
YouTube is doing.
Outlaws.
I am doing it.
Well, I need to have a look.
Yep.
And then also.
Because it's the.
Because it's the ten yearanniversary of Star Wars Rebels.
Believe it or not, I stuck onthe first episode of Rebels.
(04:57):
And that's actually a decentwatch, mate.
Yeah, he's good in it.
That first episode on Lothal.
And when you meet Ezra for thefirst time and the Empire.
What's he called?
Lothal.
No, no.
What's the episode called?
Oh, I can't remember the nameof the episode.
But you can't remember thename of the episode?
No.
A spark something, isn't it?
(05:17):
It's a.
It's spark something.
I can't remember the exact.
Probably not.
No, no.
What is it?
Spark of Rebellion.
But, yeah, it's a decentwatch, that.
And, dude, that's just how.
That's how long I've not seenthe episode for.
You watched it the other dayis literally listed when you press
the button next to the button.
(05:42):
Come on.
Like, if anything, like, itcould be.
Spark or something else.
Yeah.
Listeners will back me up on this.
If you're re watchingsomething that you've watched multiple
times, you don't pay attention to
episode titles anymore.
You just hit play and do it.
So rebellion was the episode,mate, that I watched, and it was.
(06:04):
It was a good watch.
What did you watch or do?
Anything?
Star wars ever?
Last week I read a book.
What was it called?
Began with.
It begins with an s.
Yeah, something.
Yeah.
Just.
Just looking at thoseyoutubers, right?
And I.
There's a lot of it, like thefailure of Star wars outlaws.
(06:25):
Shut up.
Or it's always these things,like, wish I'd known this before
Ibought Star wars outlaws.
Like, shut up.
Yeah.
You see what I mean, though, right?
It's very negative.
Yep, yep.
How the game is, you know,terrible and blah, blah, blah, blah.
Don't listen to any of thatshit if you've not played it yet.
(06:47):
It's a decent playthrough.
It's very good.
Well, you know, we will bedouble negatives.
We'll be negative to thenegative us, which turns it into
apositive, which is clear that obviously
that's a rule.
What have I done?
Well, so, since we last spoke,about a few weeks off through various
things, work, holidays and such,
like.
And I did finish the living force.
(07:11):
My man kev.
Yeah, he told me to.
So I got this other.
I always get Star wars books,like, when they come out.
So I got this rise and fall ofthe galactic Empire, which had been
really key keen to read.
And Kevin messaged me on FaceyB, saying, you got to read it.
And I was like, I need to getto it, mate.
As you know, I'm strugglingwith this living force.
And then one day I went backto him and I was like, start it,
mate.
(07:34):
And he went, ah, that meansyou finished living force.
Well done.
Yeah, it did take a while.
Three months it took.
Jeez.
Yeah, it really is.
And it was funny because,look, John Jackson Miller, I really,
really like his stuff.
Like, I'm gonna get Batmanresurrection, probably, which I think
might be out, like, this week.
Pre order that, mate.
Yeah, yeah.
(07:55):
Good shout.
Good shout.
I might kindle that one, youknow, because I can't see being one
that I read more than once, but I
might.
So I might kindle that one.
But, dude, living force isjust bitten off way too much.
Like, there's some good stuffin it, and there's, like, John Jackson
Miller.
So there's always a littleEaster egg.
(08:15):
And where it's set in thetimeline, there's always something
thatlinks to the next thing.
Brilliant.
Love that.
But man just bit off more thanhe could chew, I think.
It was like, okay, let's tell us.
Let's tell a story where alltwelve Jedi masters on the grand
grandmasters on the council have
gotto do something interesting, every
single one of them.
And it's just too much.
(08:35):
And there's that many movingparts to it that you're like, I'm
not really investing in any one bit
of it.
Plus throwing in, like, quigon and obi wan as well.
It's just like.
It was just a bit much, youknow, just.
And that's not to takeanything away from him, because he's
a great, great writer.
Great author.
Knows Star wars really well.
But it just.
(08:55):
That one is just like a threeout of star.
Three out, three out of fivestar, which is, like, still good.
It's like, you know, that'swhy class is good, but just a bit
much.
But this rise and fall, thegalactic Empire, I think I'm, like,
100 pages into it, a third of the
way into it in a week, which says
it all.
Oh, it's brilliant, mate.
Kev.
Kev said it was brill.
(09:16):
It's fantastic.
Kev knows his Star wars,doesn't he?
Knows his beans, don't he?
He wants to come back on theshow as well.
Just get him on.
Let's get everyone on.
Okay.
Now?
Not right now, notimmediately, no.
But let's arrange that.
All right?
Yeah.
Done?
Yeah.
Kev, you on?
(09:37):
Elsev make it so.
To quote Star wars.
Shut up.
Star wars fans are having a laugh.
Calm yourselves down.
Calm yourselves down.
We've got right member calledDanny, but I don't think he has any
podcast equipment to come on.
He's not into podcasting, the guy.
Not really, no.
We'll see, though.
See if we can get him something.
Snowball, whatever.
(09:58):
Do anything.
Yeah.
All right.
The release roller coaster.
Look, it's no, it's no.
I don't think it's a surpriseto anyone.
Is it that Star wars, sincethe acquisition in 2012, has been
known to announce things and then
never quite follow them through?
(10:24):
So we figured it would bequite nice to spend a little bit
oftime on that because we often spend
time on it.
You know, we digress a littlebit through our news articles, but
it's just quite interesting to see
this, I suppose, now almost with,
like, 1213 years behind us.
Like, the Force Awakens is tenyears old next year, which is wild,
man.
(10:46):
And, you know, if we cast ourmind back, October 2012 acquisition
wasannounced, I think, and revealed
theplans for the new trilogy start with
the Force Awakens.
Then they went through after this.
Force awakens, or around theForce Awakens time, it was like,
allright, look, we're gonna do these
anthology series, you know, rogue
one, a Star wars story, solo, a Star
wars story.
(11:10):
We'd heard Boba Fett, we'dheard Obi Wan Kenobi, so on and so
forth.
Disney plus came about 2020.
I think that launched in,like, February, March 2020.
And I.
And things just seemed to change.
A lot of the films got slated.
Certain things, like Obi Wanbecame limited series.
(11:33):
We saw the Clone wars resurrected.
Finishing that series off.
Ahsoka was announced.
Boba Fett was made into a tv show.
And I just feel like, youknow, even up to, like, 2023, like,
we were there at celebration when
they announced a lot of these movies.
We were in the room when theyannounced a couple of them.
And don't know, it just feelslike the excitement levels dropped
because how can we really trust it
anymore?
(12:02):
And then there's been thecritical reaction to a lot of these
things.
There's the dodgy fan basesort of divisiveness going on.
It just feels like a complexmaze of announcements and how to
really get this right.
And I think running alongsidethat, you've had all these kind of
weird failures in the DCU.
You've got, frankly, like, alot of failures on Marvel's side
since 2019, since Endgame, but before
that, like, they were cooking on
gas man, they'd release these phases
and they'd, for the most part, they'd
stick to them.
(12:32):
Maybe 80, 90% of them.
The things that got announcedwould get released and it just feels
wild that Star wars can't stick to
things.
And I.
I think the.
I don't know, a place for meto probably pick up is like, do you
think all this stems from what, looking
back, seems like a really incoherent
planfor the sequel trilogy?
(12:53):
Do you think that's where itall went a bit?
Did it all start with that?
Going a bit tits up, if I'mhonest, mate.
I think it started with solo.
I think that's where thingsstarted to fall.
You saw the crack start toshow a little bit.
Then I remember seeing amagazine article, can't remember
themag, but they, they alluded to all.
(13:14):
The crux of the story wasbefore solo, the peeps at Lucasfilm
andDisney assumed, but because it was
a Star wars project, it was just
anautomatic billion dollar film and
it was automatically going to do
well and all that stuff.
And then when Solo flopped alittle bit, I think that's when people
started to look up and be like, hmm,
we're gonna have to plan this a bit
more.
(13:39):
If I remember correctly, theplan was when they first bought.
When Disney first bought Lucasfilm.
I believe the plan was to do asaga style film one year and then
aspin off the following year and go
in that kind of cycle for at least
five, six years, whatever.
But, yeah, so I think whensolo not.
I still can't understand the.
(14:00):
If people think the flop isbecause it made a ton of money still,
right?
It still made.
It didn't make a billiondollars, but I think it still made
quite a ton of cash for them.
They considered it a flop, though.
Yeah, they did it, man saidworldwide, 400 million, but the budget
says the budget was 275 million.
(14:25):
I'm assuming that'sremarketing and promotional costs.
So it made like 125 million, which.
Yeah, so they would considerthat a flop, right?
Yeah, exactly.
So I think it's from thatpoint, mate, I think from then on,
they were like, okay, we can't guarantee
that something with the Star wars
badge on it is going to return big
bucks.
(14:45):
So from that point on, theycanceled the spin off films.
And then I think as anoffshoot of that, it was like, we're
not doing all this other stuff, so
let's put all of our time in the
sequels.
But that didn't land either.
So, yeah, you had this kind ofdomino effect so I think, for me,
Ithink from solo, you then start to
see the cracks show, and then.
(15:09):
Well, do you think that was limited?
Do you think that was almostsort of fell foul of the Last Jedi's
sort of dodgy halo effect, do you
think, from the fan base?
Because that was, like, May2018 when solo came out, which, you
know, you'd say may summer blockbuster.
(15:32):
You know what else came out?
May 2018 or what was May 2018movie releases, like, what big marvel
ones?
Oh, it was Infinity war aroundthat time, wasn't it?
Oh, there you go.
But that was that, like, June time?
Mm hmm.
Yeah, I just.
I just wonder if it was, like,something to do with it coming off
the back of the Last Jedi changing,
orDeadpool two came out changing, like,
oh, yeah.
(16:02):
So Avengers, Infinity forInfinity War was April 27, Deadpool
2,May 18, the week after a solo.
But, yeah, just.
I just.
Just wonder if there was thatInfinity War issue, the fact that
Star wars films up until then have
been Christmas releases.
So it was a thing.
And then on the back of theLast Jedi, like, did it just get
alittle bit of backlash because Star
wars fans were, oh, you've screwed
up.
(16:28):
Luke Skywalker.
Are you gonna do the same toHan Solo?
And then there was, like, thereshoots or the rewrites, the director
changes, the Ron Howard stuff, you
know, I just wonder if it was, like,
several little things that added
upto that.
Yeah, probably, dude.
I think because a lot morethings are documented now, and you
have a lot more leaks and everything
goingon, I think people are just more
aware of what's going on behind the
scenes a little bit more.
(16:55):
So all those little thingsthat happen along the way, because
backin the day when they were making
theoriginal trilogy, that was such a
troubled production, especially that
first film, but because there was
no social media and there's nothing
going on that you could latch onto.
So if there was a leak thatsaid, you know, I don't know, George
Lucas has been, you know, a naughty
boywith something that then overshadows
theentire production.
(17:22):
And so you think, ah, this isnot good or not even anything untoward,
but if there was a leak that said,
like, the script isn't working, you
know, like, with Obi Wan, the tv
show on Disney, they had that thing,
didn't they?
Where it leaked that thescript wasn't quite ready, so they
put it back, the release date back
so they could work on the scripts,
andeveryone lost their shit over that.
It was like, oh, my God, it'sgoing to be a disaster.
(17:44):
You know, Obi Wan's done.
See you later.
And then I think it took EwanMcGregor to come out and say, everyone
just shut the.
You know, this happens onpretty much every single film and
tv show.
You just don't know about it.
So this is completely normal.
You know, it's all good.
Go back to what you weredoing, and you'll enjoy Obi Wan,
youknow, a little bit later than usual.
(18:06):
So I think when you havethings like that as well, if people
are a lot more aware of behind the
scenes and whatnot.
So when you have.
You're talking about all thelittle details when you have something,
the way that Luke was handled in
the last Jedi coupled with Cath doesn't
know what she's doing to, you know,
solos a disaster, you know, on from
that, you just have this snowball
effect.
(18:29):
So by the time you get roundto finishing the sequel trilogy,
youknow, the.
All the controversy and thefan opinion, it's got more media
attention and more traction than
thefilms themselves.
So then what do you do, thenfor forward planning?
You know, you talking earlierabout all these things that get announced.
(18:50):
Sorry.
And they don't quite followthrough and we don't get them, you
know, is that because they're just
so worried about pleasing certain
fansor not pleasing certain people and
firing directors, firing writers,
getting, you know, gone are the days,
mate, where, um, it's a case of,
like you and I used to do years ago
and still do to a degree today.
(19:12):
It's like, just ship it.
Just do the thing.
Ship it.
It'll be fine.
You know, there's that little.
There's something cool aboutthat sort of feeling of flying by
the seat of your pants just a little
bit, you know, so you haven't got
everything completely nailed.
You're going on instinct alittle bit.
So now I think every littledetail is mapped out and planned
andaccounted for, and so I think that's
affected things, mate.
(19:37):
So, yeah, from.
From the last Jedi anddefinitely solo, you have all these
little things that culminate into
abit of a shit show.
I think you're right about the people.
Just wouldn't know a lot ofthe behind the scenes if it weren't
forthe world that we live in right now.
And also, I do think theyoutubers, we joke about it a lot,
but they need clicks.
(19:59):
And the way to get clicks isto put something clickbait in.
Clickbaity stuff is oftennegative or listical stuff or sensationalized
versions of tidbits of information
thathave been blown out of proportion
or madeinto things contextually that they
just aren't.
And it feels like, I wonder ifStar wars just gets that as much
as,like, Marvel and everyone else does.
(20:25):
I just wonder if they get thatquite a lot because you, like, it's
easier to beat up on stuff than say,
I really enjoyed that, or, I'm really
looking forward to this for this
reason, you know, who's that going
to activate?
It's not going to activate anyone.
You're not going to get viewson that.
And, you know, the directorchanges back in the day.
(20:47):
Like, Batman forever, right?
Went on to gross, like, wasthe highest grossing film of certainly
ofthat, like, quarter, I think, like
second or third of that year, 95.
And it just.
You would never have.
Who gives a crap that Keatonhad left and Joel Schumacher took
over from Burton or, you know, whatever
Robin Williams was pissed about what
happened to him with the joker in
the Batman, so just didn't take the
Riddler gig, you know, no one knew
about any of that until much later.
(21:18):
It's just totally different.
It's just totally different now.
And I don't think thatnecessarily helps.
It's.
People just see every versionof it and they don't need to.
I've got a little bit of asoft spot for Batman forever.
Oh, yeah?
How grateful?
Great film.
You know, it's hated, isn't it?
(21:39):
Especially Batman and Robin,but Batman forever, I don't know.
Batman Forever's great, man.
It was the highest release,highest box office gross in 1995.
Apollo 13, toy story, aceVentura, dyad with a vengeance.
Absolute classic.
Goldeneye, Waterworld.
What the fuck?
Water.
(21:59):
Okay, seven, so.
And, dude, Batman Forever's agreat movie.
It's like the.
It's the.
It's the, you know, you justaccept that it's just not part of
the Burton universe.
Those two films stand alone.
Forever stands alone.
And Batman and Robin, you sortof have a bit of a laugh with.
Yeah, Batman and Robin is justa different type of Batman film.
It's great.
But, like, look, I suppose.
(22:21):
Look at Batman.
When Keaton was cast, all theletters that went in.
Imagine that now, even to apoint like when Heath Ledger got
cast.
What are you doing?
You an idiot?
And then you look now atwhat's happening with, like, David
Corin sweat in the DCU.
People are beating up on thefilm before they even know it.
And I just feel like Star warsprobably gets a lot of that, the
tvshows get a lot of that, and it's
probably a lot of it's delivered
bypeople that have just got a very
setvision of what they want.
(22:51):
And I think a lot of peoplemight have been let down by the last
Jedi enough because they expected
lootto be a certain way.
And that then, you know, yeah, this.
Is a really big problem, Ithink, for writers and whatnot over
at Lucasfilm, because I can't.
(23:11):
I can identify with that on acertain level.
So as a, as a.
I've been a designer now for,Dunno, 14 years, 15 years, something
like that.
And I can tell you now, one ofthe biggest problems that designers
haveis when they send work over and they
send work in to be looked at and
approved, whatever.
The biggest battle, the battleis not, do you think the work is
any good?
(23:34):
That's not the problem.
The.
I think the main problem isthe person that you're sending the
work out to.
They've already got apreconceived image in their head
ofwhat they wanted to see.
And if what you've produceddoesn't quite align with that, even
if it's great work, it will always
bea, yeah, you know, not really what
we're looking for.
(23:56):
So I can, I can absolutely seefrom both sides of the camp almost.
It's like from Fandom's pointof view, you know, you've got people
that are queuing up thinking this
isgoing to be different actors and
different things, but, you know,
it'sstill going to be a Batman film,
still going to be great, because
thelast two were brilliant.
And then you get that andyou're like, that's not what I was
expecting.
(24:17):
So that equals rubbish orequals bad, whatever.
So I imagine it's a similarthing with the old, the old Star
wars dudes that Lucasfilm, they're
soup against it because you've got
all this fandom and it's almost like
dudes fandom split into two sects
almost as well.
You've got the people that arejust happy to just be chill about
Star wars, right?
(24:40):
They don't love it.
They don't hate it.
They appreciate it's a Starwars film, might like certain aspects
of it great, you know, whatever.
I didn't hate book of Boba Fett.
Didn't love it.
Didn't hate return the Jedi.
It's not my favorite Star warsfilm, whatever.
But then you've got this othercamp and, you know, we've mentioned
theseguys a lot, like the youtubers who
are doing the rounds and have done
for the last year or so, like Star
wars theory.
(25:05):
Nerd crotic, geeks and gamers,all these sorts of guys, they just,
you know, they will just destroy
everything because they're not.
The people at Lucasfilmhaven't phoned them before and said,
look, tell me about when you're eight
years old, Christmas morning, watching
Star wars.
(25:25):
Tell me how you feel at that point.
Put yourself in your shoesthen, and I'll make a Star wars film
that appeals to your nostalgic memory
of that moment.
So they don't have that, youknow, they don't have that experience
likethey used to.
So that equals wrong straightaway, because it's not what they're
expecting.
So, um, yeah, it's a verysimilar thing with the Batman stuff
as well.
(25:48):
We just said, I think theexception being the Nolan stuff,
perhaps, I don't know, because that
was already.
That was pretty.
That was given to you in a waythat was like, even before the first
film came out, is like, this is going
to be way different.
Way different.
Whereas the sequel trilogy,dude, if we think about that, that
wasn't marketed as, like, this is
a brand new era of Star wars.
(26:10):
This is a.
This is gonna be a brand new thing.
It was like, all the dudesthat you know and love are in it.
C three.
Po R two.
Luke's probably gonna be in it.
You know, there's a trailerwith what's his face, so.
But then you did.
But then they did try anddouble back a bit.
It's like, I don't know, Rey'slike, the new thing.
Like, raise the new face ofStar wars.
(26:32):
Then we've got, you know, theblack dude.
Don't worry about his name.
You won't remember his name.
He's just the black dude.
Maybe he'll be a Jedi.
Probably won't be because he's black.
So you had all this stuffgoing on, dude, and I think that
tampers with your.
Your perception of it.
I mean, how do.
The Rey film is meant to becanceled, right.
(26:53):
The upcoming Rey film, if youbelieve all the rumors and stuff,
it'sdefinitely on hold.
They've done the same thingthat they did with Obi.
Wanna.
Hmm.
They were like, script's not working.
Story's not there.
Let's can this off.
We'll come back to it in alittle while once it's done.
So that then fuels, like, allthese youtubers.
Who, the other guys that we mentioned?
Is it Mike Zero?
(27:14):
Always Mike zero.
Yeah.
I think you make some goodpoints, dude.
I think some of the challengethat you've got with Star wars is
very unique to Star wars as well,
because you've got like, I think
theHarry Potter series will struggle
withthis as well, the HBO series, because
in theory that should be ten times
better than the movies.
I like the movies.
I like the Harry Potter movies.
But then they're not thebooks, and the books are really deep
and they're really good and they're
very well put together.
(27:40):
And the HBO Max series cantell a seasonal story, you know,
onebook over 7 hours, 8 hours, 6 hours,
whatever, but not two and a half
hours or in like with the Deathly
hallows, whatever, 5 hours.
And the, I think the Star warsissue tends to be, as you alluded
tolike, you've got a lot of people
thatare very vocal that are paying the
bills for the people that are enjoying
Star wars.
(28:09):
So the kids that are watchingAhsoka and thinking, fucking, ah,
this is cool.
It's Ahsoka.
Their mums and dads, orprobably their dads are like, that's
not Star wars because that's not
making them feel like you said how
they felt when they were eight years
old.
But you know, Star wars alwaysbeen for kids.
We know that.
But if you think about what doyou then do as Lucasfilm?
(28:30):
If you try and write for thatguy, they're always pissed off because
they don't want the old stuff because
it's not like the old stuff.
Like if you put Luke Skywalkerin, who's the same at 60 as they
areat 19, I can't think of anyone.
And so you can't tell thatstory to please them.
So then you think, well, I'lldo new stuff with new characters
or oldcharacters, and we'll try and maybe
recapture some of the magic that
youwant or you classes magic.
(28:59):
And they don't like thatbecause it's not Louis Skywalker.
And so, you know, but thenthat's, the complexity levels are
then compounded by the fact that
nowthe people are coming of age that
love the prequels, and it's always,
even according to George Lucas, it's
always been Anakin's story.
But yet you sort of ignoreAnakin in the sequel trilogy.
So you get, like, from a storyperspective, I don't think, I don't
think any other franchise has got
that problem.
(29:27):
I think you could argue that,like probably Marvel and DC have
gotthat problem to a degree, but the
only basis that they've got is it's
from the comics and the get out of
jail there is, well, this is an adaptation
of a comic and obviously it's not
going to be the same.
And a lot of people just go,well, that's fine.
We get that because it'smedium to medium, and it feels.
(29:51):
It just feels like style.
I can't think of anything elsethat's got that.
That's got that problem.
It's almost like if they triedto make a back to the future sequel,
it would.
Unless it was very special,people would batter it because the
effects would be better than back
tothe future.
Two.
We don't actually want better effects.
(30:12):
We want it to look a bitjankier because that's what we love
about it.
And, you know, I just feellike that nostalgia element, it's
like when you go back to your old
school, holy shit, innit?
It's like, oh, yeah, Iremember being here and I remember
itbeing good, and I also remember it,
like, in certain other ways, but
Idon't really give a crap about being
here.
(30:36):
Why am I here?
Who cares?
It's not changed my memory ofit, you know?
And I think what you expectin, from Star wars and from Lucasfilm
andDisney is you expect, like you said,
you're expecting them to honor your
own personal memory.
You know, it's why peoplealways say the book's better than
the film, because you interpret how
the character's taught, you interpret
thevisuals of the character, you interpret
the landscape.
(30:58):
And when it looks different onfilm, it's never going to be as good.
Never going to be as good.
So I think that can be really problematic.
I just wonder if, because ofall that, and let's be honest, Disney's
not, not wholeheartedly, not to blame
on this one, because it did make
afew missteps.
(31:22):
I don't think it's wise toannounce a pile of stuff, rescind
it,then announce another pile of stuff,
rescind it, then keep announcing.
Like, surely just learn your lesson.
I think that's a problem.
But do you think this is justputting people off?
Do you think, like, guys likeyou and me, we see more negative
on itthan we did two years ago?
Like, we've got.
We're all.
We're more apathetic about itthan we were two years ago?
(31:44):
Yeah, we are.
And I think it's a problem if you're.
If you consume content, if.
If you're the sort of personthat doesn't give a shit about social
media, you're not on it that much
and you're not on YouTube a lot and
stuff like that, I think you're.
I think those sorts of peepsare normally okay because you're
justgoing through life, appreciate and
enjoying what you should be, right.
(32:10):
Which is your family and yourmates and travel and seeing the world
and enjoying books, all that stuff.
You're not drawn into the, um,what would you call it?
Echo chamber, whatever it'scalled, you know?
Exactly.
Yeah.
You're not drawn into all thatstuff because you honestly don't
care.
Like, if Lucasfilm said, orDisney said, we've got a new Star
wars film that's due out in 2025.
(32:34):
That was announced in 2023,you're like, oh, sweet, that'll be
good.
When we go to cinema to seethat, and then it gets cancelled
and youfind out through a friend, I'm looking
forward to that Star wars film.
Oh, mate, that's been cancelled.
Oh, all right, then.
So that's.
If you're that sort of person,then I think it's.
It's not going to put you offbecause you're just sort of, you
know, whatever.
(32:57):
But I think for the majorityof fandom, which links back to what
you're saying about Star wars having
aunique problem, so many people are
vocal, have got a voice on it, that
it becomes an issue, and it also
links back to what we're saying earlier
about people being exposed to what's
going on behind the scenes a lot
more.
So if you've got a load of.
(33:18):
And I agree, if you're gonnaannounce a bunch of stuff and then
keep canceling it and whatever, that's
not good.
And that does add to the wholejust putting people off, because
itcreates some.
I think it creates a kind of.
There's no confidence inwhat's going on now.
(33:39):
You know, if you've got a solid.
And I think you and I havementioned this a few times, mate,
because they don't have a feige,
and Ithink Cath wanted to be that, to
adegree, but she's.
Yeah, she's clearly not that,because they don't have someone like
Feige who does oversee all the stuff
at Marvel.
(33:59):
And let's be honest, not manyfilms have slipped.
Marvel don't typicallyannounce a slew of films and then
cancel them or whatever.
I think they've missed, like,you know, missed a few, but not nothing
along the lines of Star wars and
Disney and whatnot.
So I think because there's noone like that.
It creates this air sometimesof, like, well, even this, when this
film does land, if it lands like
this Ray film, for example, is it
gonna be shit?
(34:29):
Because we've had a script.
And that's been shit.
So they've delayed it and haveto redo it.
You know, it just creates thatkind of, you know, what are they
doing over there?
Sort of thing.
And that's always been amassive surprise to me.
Dude, I've never, ever beenable to figure that one out in that
you've got somebody at the top of
the tree, right?
Whether that's Bob Iger, theother guy who took over for a while
before Bob came back.
(34:55):
You've got people like that atthe very top and from the top down,
you've.
If you ignore all the otherstuff and just look at Marvel and
Star wars, you've got Marvel over
here who make a ton of cash.
The majority of their filmsare well received.
They've had some clangers,especially on the Disney stuff, be
honest.
(35:17):
But for the most part, theirstuff is well received.
They mostly hit deadlines.
It's all good on this side of it.
Looking down on Star wars.
It's just a shit show.
They're missing their deadlines.
They're cancelling all oftheir shit.
Everything they put out is onemassive backlash.
People are leaving all therest of it.
I've never understood whysomebody at the top doesn't say,
howdo we sort that out?
(35:41):
Who do we need to bring overfrom here over to there to sort that
out?
Or who do we need to bring inthat's, like, this person over here,
all these people, so that this doesn't
keep happening?
I've never.
I don't know what the answerto that is, dude, but that's a weird
one.
It's a tough one as well,because you want, you know, if you
think about the Marvel stuff, you've
got Iron man, which is a pure action
superhero movie.
(36:09):
Yeah, I would put that in thevein of, like, a very simplistic,
straightforward, very good, you know,
but very straightforward movie.
Captain America, a bit of aperiod piece, winter Soldier, espionage
piece.
You've got Ant man heistmovie, you know, and then you start
to get into some of the other stuff
where they're trying to sort of diversify
the way they tell stories and then,
like, daredevil and stuff.
(36:37):
That's very, very different.
Very, very different.
Very, very, very different.
Dude, that first series ofDaredevil, by the way, brilliant.
Fantastic.
Yeah.
So good.
You look at that in comparisonto, like, Star wars.
Like, they try to do differentthings, and whether you like the
acolytes, a prime example, whether
youlike it or not, whether you feel
it's forced inclusion or not, a lot
of it was bad storytelling.
(37:04):
It was.
But that gets outshone, andthe genuine critical thinking gets
outshone by the dickheads that just
don't like inclusivity or get pissed
off that it's two witches, or get
pissed off that there's more representation
across the board.
Like, no one's pissed off thatCamille is not a caucasian british
male.
(37:30):
No one's pissed at thatthey're annoyed at the two witches
orthe black girl.
And you're like, what the fuckis wrong with you?
And, you know, it's not theproblem that I think you've then
gota Star wars is I.
You can introduce things likethe High Republic, which is, as a
book series, comic series is really
good.
(37:54):
When you try and translatethem, they just fall foul of the
Luke Skywalker thing, because the
people that are slaying it just want
to see Luke Skywalker.
But when they do, they're not happy.
The only time we all gotexcited, and I'm counting us in this
as well, was when Luke Skywalker
wasreturn of the Jedi, Luke Skywalker
in theMandalorian, and that was badass.
(38:14):
We just got more of.
More of something that we'dalready seen that we really enjoyed,
delivered in a way that we wanted
tosee it.
But not everything has to be that.
And I think that's one of thechallenges with Star wars, is that
everyone, it has to be, like you
said earlier, it has to be this or
this, and if it's this, it's right.
And if it's this, it's wrong.
(38:35):
And that's absolute rubbish.
And, I mean, I don't know howyou fix it.
I mean, I clean house.
Well, I'd wonder if you do.
I wonder if you just get.
Just cancel everything, right?
And get Dave Filoni to writeus Luke Skywalker, something.
Recast it.
Put Sebastian, Stan, orsomeone else there, and just go write
me a Luke Skywalker thing in the
mandalorian timeline, and let's just
fucking have at it, and let's just.
(39:04):
Then let's bring everythingelse back in.
Yeah, Starbucks felony.
Right?
So let's go to this website,chatgpt.com, compose a script for
me looking positive fandom over the
last year for a Skywalker dude.
Yeah, I mean, you're right.
That is one option, right?
(39:25):
Is to just reset everything.
Just have a hard reset, andjust have.
I don't mean narratively or in canon.
I mean, like, the people thatare there at Lucasfilm at the minute
to keep hold of Filoni and Favreau.
Because those who, those twohave least got half a brain cell
that's got a Star wars badge on it,
right?
(39:45):
At least those two know, to adegree, how to make good stuff.
Favreau knows how to make thebig, successful blockbuster films.
Filoni knows how to do thesuccessful animation and that stuff.
You put those two together, Ithink that's a good one.
That's one option.
The other option is that youjust clear the lot out.
You just say, look, kath,darling, this is not working right.
(40:09):
You must be pissed off with this.
We're all pissed off with it.
Just go and get yourStarbucks, go home, you know, put
you on garden, leave, whatever, and
we're gonna get someone else in.
And that way Disney can thenspend some money that's gonna get
adecent return.
Because you can then justpinch, if you've got the money there,
you can pinch some writers who have
done this stuff successfully.
(40:32):
You can look into, like, theDC writers, you know, like, all the
cool writers that have done DC tv
over the years.
Like the guy that did arrow,the guy that did, um, the adventures
ofSuperman, um, Superman and Lois.
You know, that recent series,I think it was, um, Jeff Loeb.
(40:52):
Right.
I think.
Anyway, those type of guysthat have, like.
No, like, what's the best wayto put it?
Who can take something likeStar wars and absolutely know the
law and the characters?
What's going.
Balance, I think, is key.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Just find out what's going to work.
(41:13):
So basically, you just draftin this new, new series of writers
andcreators who have been there and
done it and have not only got the
tshirt, but, you know, all the rest
of it, and you can just have this
new direction, mate.
Just keep.
Keep what works, but you'vejust, you know, changed it up.
Because at the moment, itfeels like we're kind of going round
in circles a little bit because you've
got cath at the top, you.
(41:39):
And I don't know her Percy, ofcourse, so we don't know what she's
saying behind the scenes or and all
that stuff, but it just feels like
something goes out and it's dreadful.
Like the acolyte and becauseshe's got a company hat on, she has
to say, well, the reason why it failed
is because all of these youtubers
areslating it.
(42:00):
And the reason why it failedis because all these people hated
itand your voice was louder than the
people that liked it.
One, what she should besaying, but she can't say, is, yeah,
I agree.
It was a piece of shit.
I put my faith in the peoplemaking it because I personally couldn't
write a Star wars script.
So I put the faith in thesepeople who can do it.
I saw it and thought it wasshit, but I can't press, like, the
eject button because we spent $300
million.
(42:27):
So I think we just need aclean house, mate.
That's what I would do.
But it's such a difficultthing when you've got something like
Disney, where they've got investor
days,they've got stock to think about.
You know, if you just suddenlysay, I'm pausing some of the biggest
ipthat we own from a tv and movie and
gaming and multimedia standpoint,
obviouslythe stock takes it.
(42:48):
Someone's getting fired.
It's not as easy.
It'd be lovely if it was aseasy as doing that, but I just don't
know how you approach that.
And I think this underlyingsubtext of just people being.
People complaining aboutwokeness and whatever that even means
these days.
I'm not even sure they evenknow what that means.
You know, if it's someone thatdoesn't look like you, that's.
(43:10):
That's in a tv show, thatdoesn't mean it's woke, you know?
And I just.
I don't know how you deal withthat because you've got.
There were genuine concerns,like I said, with things like the
acolyte, the rise of Skywalker.
I can't think of really anybook of Boba Fett, but a lot of people
just said, oh, this is Walt Disney
shit.
(43:32):
And now what you're seeing is,you know, you'll get, like, and or
season two, a trailer.
I would imagine we'll get atrailer for that pretty soon.
You then see, like, on some ofthe websites in the comments section,
not even bothering watching this
Walt Disney shit.
And you're like, well, youabsolute bell end, of course.
Like, if you.
If that's what you're puttingout there, then you will find something
not to like.
(43:56):
You will find something not tolike because you're looking for it
at that point.
And I just.
I wonder if that subtext isactually becoming more.
More prominent now and does itaffect decision making?
Does it affect.
Because we all don't want thatlevel of shite to exist, you know,
idiots be idiots, but it shouldn't
affectwhat genuine fans do and what they
want.
(44:25):
But then if you're a studio, Idon't know how you account for decision
making when, you know, we know what
it's like.
Review bombing is a thingpeople can go and brought onto my
own.
We live in a world whereaggregated things mount up into a
collective opinion which can subjectively
affect the box office.
And I don't know how you dealwith that as a business.
And I just feel like Star warsis probably, like I said, susceptible
tothat more than anyone because, you
know, there's three or four generations
offans that have gone through it now.
(44:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, I agree, dude.
It's a.
And when I say about cleaninghouse as well, I don't mean like
snap of the fingers and like, on
aFriday, everyone's gone.
On a Monday, it's like new people.
Um, but you could certainlystart at the top, right?
(45:17):
You could certainly say, look,Kathman sack, Mickey Mouse.
You got.
Yeah, Mickey, you're out, dude.
Yeah, get on your steamboat.
Goof it.
And you.
Thank you.
Yeah.
So get them out.
And then just get someone inthat can, then transition that.
See, if it takes a year to dothat, then fine, keep all of felony
and all that lot.
(45:38):
But then that person at thetop can then be like, right, okay.
I've seen what's not working,so we're going to address all that.
So that's what I mean.
Like, you know, transition thetop level dudes out, and then you
keep the successful, talented writers
and stuff.
You maintain that it's beenlike any industry, dude.
Like the games industry,typically you have these studios
wherethe top execs don't have a fucking
clueabout what gamers actually want and
stuff like that.
(46:05):
But then you've got thisreally talented team of developers
anddesigners and stuff that actually
makein the thing and care about the story
and stuff.
But ultimately what happens isif something doesn't go very well
ordoesn't sell very well, it's those
guys that get laid off and then the
top execs are like, right onto the
next project that's probably going
to bomb.
But it's cool, though, becausewe made a few bucks, so that's all
right.
(46:26):
So I feel like it's a littlebit like that with the movie industry.
Like these days you have thesepeople at the top, but I keep saying
Cath did, but unfortunately, she's
the woman with a name above the door.
Do you know what I mean?
So, you know, we keep havingthese projects where not all of them,
but some of them are just really
notlanded at all.
Starting with the sequeltrilogy, man.
(46:47):
And like, that really did turnthe tide, I think.
Yeah.
For fandom in a way, I thinkpeople could put up with solo to
adegree because it was, quote unquote,
just a spin off.
But when the last Jedi,Hitman, I think that was.
Yeah, so don't know.
But then what's the crackwith, like, future stuff, dude, if
we're talking about stuff that they
keep announcing and canceling, if
we got anything to look forward to.
(47:13):
I was just sort of looking atthat to wrap up on because I think
it's a good place to leave it.
Like, I don't, and we don'teven really know the status of anything
at the minute.
So we've got the mandalorianand grogu that we know always, we
suspect is coming out May 22, 2026.
The re movie, we don't knowthe new Jedi Order, one, whether
that'sbeen cancelled or not.
(47:36):
Taika Waititi, we think that'sjust got binned very recently.
The James Mangold film, isthat still on?
Rogue Squadron, that's kind ofbeen delayed.
And.
Or season two, we know he's coming.
Ahsoka season two, we probablyknow he's coming.
Acolyte cancelled.
Lando, is that coming?
We don't know.
(47:56):
It keeps flipping and flopping.
TBC, probably more Star warsvisions, probably more tale of the
Jedi, which would actually be quite
cool, obviously, the young Jedi adventures
that sort of carries on.
But then we've got, like, theKevin Feige film, the Rian Johnson
trilogy.
We've had the cancelled, theguys from loft, lind Loft and all
those guys and the Benioff and Weiss
ones.
(48:20):
And I just feel like thethings that we're really looking
forward to, like, the heir to the
Empire stuff is sort of being overshadowed
by, like, okay, we've got skeleton
crewcoming out, but no one really knows
what to expect from that.
And they've just done the same again.
Or Sean Levy's gonna do a filmbecause he's hot off Deadpool, and
you're like, well, so in short, the
only things that we know about, I
think a skeleton crew, heir to the
Empire.
(48:50):
Mando and Grogu, Ahsoka season two.
I said Andor season two,didn't I?
To the Empire.
Yeah, to the Empire.
And then we've got.
But then we have got,theoretically, three release dates
that are pencilled in for Star wars
films.
(49:10):
We've got one in May and onein December 2026 and then December
2027.
So I don't know, mate.
I mean, I think I'm at thepoint now personally, like, until
Isee a trailer, I'm just not convinced
it's gonna come out until I literally
seea trailer.
Yeah, same.
(49:31):
I think one of those dates wasreserved for the Ray.
The Ray film.
Right.
So they might flip it.
They might keep the date andput something else in there.
I don't know of any otherfilms that are forever enough along
that they can start production on
anything.
Certainly not the Sean Levy film.
(49:51):
I think he's only just started that.
Right?
Working on that.
Well, he seems to be doingwhat Feige was doing and what Waititi
had been asked to do, which is like,
there's your creative freedom.
Like Mangold getting his, youknow, dawn of the force sort of film,
and then they go to seem to go to
Star wars, to the board and the balls,
like, nah, not doing that.
Not a fan of that.
(50:12):
Yeah, I don't know, man.
So I think, yeah, we had onein May and 1 December 2026.
It's probably gonna be a caseof there's just one film now.
Okay.
Or something in 2026 and thenanother film in 2027.
One of those being the Filonimandoversting, the other one, dude,
who bloody knows.
(50:35):
TB Bloody c.
Been interesting to talk about that.
I think you could sort of goon about that for quite a while and
go down so many different paths.
(50:55):
So maybe we'll explore a fewof those, get some other opinions
aswell, get some guests on.
We'll come back to the news,of course, as and when.
There's plenty of news outthere, but there's no sense as just
recapping, you know, these.
These moved and shaken andcancelled movies and tv shows as
they come out.
So we'll wait until there'senough news to do a good, solid news
episode or we'll maybe do a new segment
as we move forward.
(51:18):
We'll just see how.
I suppose we'll just see howthings land.
It's an ever changing world ofStar wars.
So let us know what youthought of this slightly different
episode where it's basically just
afull episode of digression, which
iswhat we're here for.
The only way to build a podcast.
Two men chatting about stuff.
Obviously it's the format, butno, it's always been a pleasure.
(51:38):
Sparklerebellion.com supportif you want to grab yourself a sticker
or send us your love.
Can do that.
Sparkofrebellion.com supportand Gazzler.
Been fun.
One that, mate.
Cheers.
Ears.
See there on the next.
Yeah, it's been good.
Just.
It feels like some chats thatwe've had at pub or at Christmas
dance or whatever.
(52:00):
First day down at.
Down at pub.
Talking about style.
Yeah, it's been good, man.
So, yeah, we'll probably mixit up, I think.
Dude, I like this.
Let's.
Let's keep the news for whenthere's some actually decent news,
and we'll deep dive into Star wars
moments.
Cool.
So, thank you very much, dearlistener, for listening to another
episode.
That was 233, so, thank youvery much, and we will see you next
time.
(52:22):
And until then, take care ofyourselves, and may the force be
with you always.
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