April 14, 2025 • 24 mins
Richard Reed, behavioral psychologist and organizational consultant, shares strategies for developing charisma in children through emotional intelligence, mindfulness practices, and creating psychological safety.
• Charisma is fundamentally about connecting with others and generating appropriate emotions within them
• Both extroverts and introverts can be charismatic in different ways
• Emotional intelligence forms the foundation of charisma—recognizing our emotions creates capacity to consider others
• Children need opportunities to experience and tolerate boredom to develop emotional regulation
• Simple mindfulness practices like eating in silence for one minute help build emotional vocabulary
• Becoming comfortable with conversational silence creates space for deeper connections
• Small shifts in conversation style (asking "what was that like?" instead of yes/no questions) elicit more meaningful responses
• Creating psychological safety allows children to express themselves fully and develop their authentic presence
• Modeling humility and discussing our own mistakes helps children develop a growth mindset
Check out Richard's new book "Charisma Unlocked" on Amazon for more practical insights on developing these connection skills.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to Speak Out.
Stand Out.
I'm Elizabeth Green and today'sguest is Richard Reed.
Richard is a behavioralpsychologist and an
organizational consultant,working with issues from severe
PTSD to leadership presence.
He is a published author andappears regularly on TV and
radio in the UK.
And, Richard, we're glad tohave you here today.
Thanks for your time.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Thanks, elizabeth, really good to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
So what you know, our podcast, our goal is to build
confidence and communicationskills in kids, and I know you,
what you are usually focused onoften is more tied to adults,
right?
We're talking about today?
We're talking about charismaand how to have charisma, how to
build charisma.
It just made me think of the.
I don't know if you're aSeinfeld fan, but the episode
(00:42):
where Elaine's talking aboutgrace.
Does she have grace?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
I don't know that just popped into my head, can
you?
Speaker 1 (00:48):
get grace?
You know, that was kind of thequestion Can you get it?
Can you get charisma?
So you typically talk aboutthese things for adults and like
leaders in the business world,but these are strategies and
skills that are just asimportant for our kids, right?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Absolutely.
It's universal skills foranybody really.
It's really about how youmanage yourself, how you
interact with other people, howyou get the best out of all the
social interactions that youhave, but also how you put a
good vibe out into the widerworld as well.
How do you help other people?
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Yeah, yeah, and I think that's important in all of
our interactions, butespecially in initial
interactions right with people,when we're making our first
impression.
That sets the stage for whatthey expect from us going
forward.
So what is charisma?
I mean, it's a word that,honestly, we don't use very
often, but I have an idea in myhead.
I see somebody kind of on stageand, you know, really
(01:42):
commanding attention.
Is that what charisma is?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Well, it can be.
It comes in different shapesand sizes.
You?
Speaker 1 (01:48):
know, you ask 100 people.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
They'll give you 100 different answers, but for me,
what it means is how you connectwith other people.
So you could be really sort ofloud, you could be, you know, at
a party or on stage anddominate in the room, but
actually are you connecting withother people?
The way you connect with otherpeople is by generating the
appropriate emotions within them, so either they feel drawn to
(02:10):
you, they feel that yourecognize them and that you're
on their side, or that youunderstand them.
So all of those things arefundamental needs for human
beings in any walk of life, andso the risk is that we tend to
think about extroverts as beingcharismatic, and while they can
be, there are also some very shy, retiring or introverted people
who can also be equallycharismatic.
(02:32):
They just need the rightenvironment in order to
demonstrate that.
So it's about celebratingpeople's uniqueness as much as
anything else.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Gotcha.
And so why is this an importantcharacteristic for us to have?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Well, I guess, whatever you do whether you're
at school, whether you'retalking to the mums in the
playground, whether you're in abusiness environment you're
connecting with people atdifferent times in different
ways.
So having charisma is reallygood in terms of unlocking those
relationships.
So not only do you come acrosswell, but you open up
(03:04):
opportunities that are usefulfor you, but also, hopefully,
you elevate other people as well.
So one important aspect ofcharisma is how we create a
virtuous circle.
How do we not only createsomething positive for us, but
put something positive out intothe world that helps other
people too?
So that is going to besomething that you encounter.
Whatever walk of life, you'regoing to be coming into contact
with people and it's really,really important to get on with
(03:26):
them and open thoseopportunities up.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Yeah, and I think as a mom, you know that's something
that we certainly want.
We talk about building socialskills in our kids, but it's so
much more than just being ableto speak to a stranger to order
at a restaurant.
You know, it's a, it's a matterof really, like you said
(03:48):
connecting with people and thatrelationships like that that's
what.
that's what make a difference.
Not just casual conversationsAbsolutely Earlier, when I was
talking about and people whodon't know Seinfeld have no clue
what I'm talking about but theepisode where Elaine is talking
about can I get grace?
Do you have grace?
Do you have to be born withgrace?
Can you get grace?
Can anybody get charisma, or isthis just something that some
people will just have and othersdon't?
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Well, I think it's fair to say that some people are
born with more of it thanothers, naturally, but it's
still something we have to workat, and even people who are very
charismatic.
If they're not mindful of howthey're coming across, they can
dilute the impact of that orthat can work against them.
But equally, if you're somebodywho doesn't regard yourself as
being charismatic, there areabsolutely skills you can learn
(04:27):
and develop that will help youto move further along that
continuum.
Everybody, in my belief, hasthe capacity to become more
charismatic and it's about.
It's ultimately about beingadaptable.
It's being true, to who you are, but it's also adapting aspects
of that to meet the people thatyou're with.
So you know you can easily becharismatic in one environment
(04:47):
and not charismatic at all inanother environment if you're
not using those skills in adeliberate and purposeful way.
So it's about recognizing whatthe situation needs as much as
anything else.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Well, you mentioned too that there's different.
You know ways that we can learnthis and become more
charismatic.
Can you give me some examples,specifically things that we can
instill in our kids and ourteenagers?
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Yeah, Well, I think the first thing is people tend
to think about charisma as beingabout an external set of
behaviors, and whilst it is, itstarts with how you manage your
internal world.
And so this is really aboutemotional intelligence,
recognizing what you'reexperiencing at any moment, what
you're giving at any moment,what you're giving out to the
world.
So you've got the sparecapacity and awareness to think
(05:29):
about what's going to be thebest resource to draw on, and
that's where you sort of getinto some of those external
behaviors.
But if you're not aware of youremotions, you're not aware of
the impact that you have, thenactually, you can have all the
skills in the world, you're notgoing to use them in necessarily
a successful way.
And this is the problem is thatpeople tend to behave in
certain ways without thinkingabout whether that's the best
(05:51):
option for that situation.
So when we do that, sometimesit hits the mark and sometimes
it doesn't, whereas if we areregistering what we're feeling,
we've got an opportunity tomanage that and have spare
capacity to think what do otherpeople need?
If you're overwhelmed by yourown emotions, you don think what
do other people need.
If you're overwhelmed by yourown emotions, you don't think
about what other people need,and that's where things start to
break down.
So emotional intelligence isthe first thing recognizing
(06:12):
what's going on for you, andthen having some skills to be
able to manage that, and it canbe very simple things.
Sometimes just registering theemotion means that you might
tread more carefully in thatnext situation.
Just that awareness can make adifference, but also things like
breathing.
Breathing is one of the biggestindications of how we're
feeling.
If we start to manage ourbreathing, we can also start to
(06:34):
inform how we feel.
So breathing is a really goodone.
Setting intentions how often dowe engage with people without
thinking about how we want tomake them feel?
We think about what we want tosay, but we don't think about
how we want to make them feel.
We think about what we want tosay, but we don't think about
how we want to make them feel,and that has a big bearing on
how we deliver the message.
So those are some very basicthings, but I think one of the
things that we're seeing moreand more in society and I think
(06:55):
particularly with children, isdifficulty managing an impulse.
So in other words you know,everything's very fast.
Everything's potentiallyavailable at the click of a
switch, and what that means iswe're becoming less and less
able to register our emotionsbut also to manage them, because
the brain's trained to wanteverything straight away.
(07:15):
So for me, one of the biggestthings that we can do with our
children is to teach them totolerate uncomfortable feelings,
and sometimes that is aboutgetting them to wait for things.
Sometimes it is about gettingthem to endure a little bit of
difficulty before they get theirreward, and sometimes it's
about allowing them to be bored.
(07:36):
How often do we feel we've gotto fill every minute of a
child's time?
Sometimes allowing them to bebored allows them to tolerate
those uncomfortable feelings,but also to learn how to manage
them and to be more creative,and if we're spoon-feeding them,
they don't develop that skill.
So those are some of the verybase things that we can do
before we start to get into someof the more advanced things
(07:57):
like body language, choice ofwords, how we use our voice, all
those sorts of more intricateskills.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Yeah, I think that you hit the nail on the head
with the boredom.
You know as a kid that was justpart of life.
You know like there were manytimes when we just had to sit
and wait, whether it be at thedoctor's office or just waiting
for the bus or whatever.
And now I find myself anytime Isit down and I'm going to be
waiting for anything.
What do I do Exactly?
Speaker 2 (08:25):
I'll let my phone Exactly.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
And it's so easy.
It is very hard as an adult nowto tolerate boredom, because we
have created this environmentwhere we don't have it, and that
is something that, if we're notcareful that our kids will
never experience because, likeyou said, there's so many things
going on at all times and theyalways have access to
entertainment in some form orfashion, that it's such a little
(08:48):
thing, but it is so.
It's so crucial.
So you mentioned to breathingand and that's how we can.
I know emotional intelligence issomething we've talked a lot
about on this podcast and it'ssomething that I think a lot of
adults even struggle with.
We weren't really taughtnecessarily to identify our
emotions, I feel like as kids, Idon't think that was a
conversation we were reallyhaving in that time and now I
(09:15):
feel like this is something weexpect that our kids to learn,
but it's still something that wehave to teach them how to name
emotions and understand thatRight, absolutely Going back to
your point about sort of mobilephones and devices, one of the
biggest things we can do for ourchildren is to model the
behavior that we want them todisplay.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
So we're not walking the walk.
It's very hard to enforce thatand a lot of these things happen
through osmosis, just beingaround people and not
consciously modeling otherpeople's behaviors, but just
picking them up.
So start by making the changethat you want to happen in other
people.
So it is about cutting back onthe screen time.
It is about having downtimewhere there's nothing planned,
(09:58):
nothing going on.
It is about reducing options.
Another thing to think about isyou know, as a society we have
far more options.
You know.
You think about just buying acoffee how big a decision that
becomes.
You've got to make 20 or 30different options you can have
for a coffee.
And again, having options meansthat we never have to just suck
it up, you know.
So think about.
(10:19):
You know, going back to daysgone by, you might have two or
three options and if you didn'tlike those, that's tough.
But you learn to be resourceful, you learn to manage it.
So I think some of those kindsof things would be a really good
place to start, but one of thethings that we can do is look at
skills around something calledmindfulness, which I'm sure
you've heard about before.
Mindfulness is really aboutfocused attention.
(10:41):
People tend to think about itas being about meditation or
feeling relaxed, and it can be,but it's ultimately about you
choosing where you're puttingyour attention and think about
key times when we're togetherwith our families.
It tends to be, for example,mealtimes, or it could be
mealtimes Sometimes it's not.
(11:01):
People are eating at differenttimes because of busy lifestyles
, but getting people to eattogether is a great opportunity
to introduce some mindfulness.
And you know I'm notparticularly religious, but you
know you think about days goneby when people were religious.
They would often have a prayerbefore they started the meal.
And I'm not necessarilyadvocating that people become
religious if that's not their,their preference, but there is
(11:22):
something in that which gets usto connect and appreciate what
we're doing, and it's alsoreally important in terms of
building emotional intelligence.
So one of the ways in which wecan adapt that, if we're not
religious, is just to have aminute at the start of a meal
where we eat in silence and weencourage everybody in the
family to notice all thesensations that go with the act
(11:45):
of eating.
So what does it look like, whatdoes it smell like, what does
it feel like in my tongue, whatdoes it feel like as it's going
down my throat and then todiscuss it afterwards?
So by doing that.
What you're doing is you'restarting to extend people's
emotional vocabulary and theirability to express themselves,
and that's a really good way,just for a minute, of trying to
do that to the exclusion of anyother thought or conversation.
(12:07):
It's a great way to start totrain the brain to be more
disciplined and more focused,and that's a really good
building block for emotionalintelligence.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
I think that I love that example.
That's something that's easyfor all parents to attempt to.
Oh, my goodness, I just lostthe word to.
Oh, the word's not coming to me.
It's an easy thing for us to doas parents.
And also just nice to have aminute of silence and appreciate
the food that we have.
(12:35):
But when you talk aboutmindfulness, to me it is
something that sounds sointimidating, like I.
You know it's so hard to keepfocused If I try to sit down and
and just you know, whatever itis, I'm trying to focus on
something it is so hard to dothese days.
So I love the idea of justdoing it for a minute at the
beginning of each meal.
That sounds like feasible, youknow, that sounds like something
(12:57):
we can do and then weultimately build on that right.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
It's like going to the gym and training the muscle.
It takes time, and what Ialways say to people is, if you
find some of these exercisesdifficult, that's all the more
reason why you should be doingthem.
If you find them difficult,it's because there's a need for
you to practice them.
So you know, it could be a meal, it could be walking down the
street and just feeling the airon your skin for a minute.
It could be in the shower youknow how often do we take a
shower and we think about allthe things we've got to do that
(13:21):
day.
Just being in that moment and agreat one for mindfulness is
Lego, okay.
So if ever I want to feelmindful, I play Lego with my
kids.
It's a great way to lose sightof time and anything else that
might be on your mind.
So revisiting that playfulbehavior is also a really good
(13:42):
way of getting more engaged withmindfulness.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
And so tell me again.
I mean, we're talking aboutmindfulness, but how does this
mindfulness seem to me andcharisma seem complete.
They do not seem like synonyms,or how are they connected.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
So mindfulness allows you to have more ability to
recognize what's going on foryou in a given moment.
So, for example, if I've justhad a conversation with somebody
and I've been rattled by it, ifI'm aware of that, I've got an
opportunity to manage it beforeI speak to the next person.
So I don't carry that over intothat next conversation.
So that's one way in which wecan use it.
(14:17):
Another way in which we can useit is when we are engaging with
people, when we're talking withpeople.
How often we talk with peopleand we're thinking about what we
want to say next and we'rethinking about something that's
happening after thatconversation.
So we happening after thatconversation.
So you know, we might come awayfrom the conversation being
able to recount all the facts ofthe conversation, but we're not
(14:38):
connecting on that deeper levelwhere we're thinking, well,
what does this mean for somebody?
What's the emotionalsignificance of what they're
saying?
How are they physicallyreacting to what I'm saying?
All those kinds of nuances thatyou don't recognize unless
you're fully engaged.
And again, if we're thinkingabout what we want to say next,
you're not following theconversation.
In other words, you're runningto a script.
So the best conversations thatopen things up and connect with
(14:58):
people are ones that are freshlybaked, and I come from a
therapy background so, speakingas a therapist, I learned very
early on that when I go offscript, those are some of the
most profound conversations thatI have with people.
When I don't go in there withany expectations of what we're
going to do, it's amazing howthings go in a very, very
different way.
So actually you don't createthese self-fulfilling prophecies
about how it's going to be.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
You know I used to be a news reporter and you just
jogged that memory in my brainthat we would always start
rolling the camera as we weresetting up the interview.
And 90% of the time thesoundbites that we used were
from that section, not wheneverI was asking specific questions
and, like you said, it's justmore authentic, but outside of,
let's say, getting a goodsoundbite.
(15:40):
Why does it matter?
Why does any of this matter?
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Good question.
Well, it matters for a numberof reasons.
It matters on a social level.
So, in terms of the societythat we want to create, people
tend to be more engaged insociety when they feel seen and
heard.
So you think about it on thebroader scale.
That's important.
When we have a conversation withsomebody and we make them feel
good, either we acknowledgesomething about them or we
(16:08):
unpack something that maybe theyweren't aware of before.
They come away feeling goodabout themselves and they come
away feeling good aboutthemselves and also they become
away feeling good about us.
And imagine, you know, one ofthe things I always talk about
with charisma is think ofyourself as a brand.
Most of us don't think in thoseterms, but actually, if you
were to ask lots of people whoknew you to be honest about you
when you're not in the room,they would probably come back
(16:29):
with very similar descriptions,and that's ultimately a big part
of your brand.
And when you're engaging withother people using some of these
skills, those people are yourpotential marketing team for
your brand.
Those are the people that keepyou in mind when opportunities
open up.
Those are the people who speakwell of you to other people.
So, engaging with people, evenwhen there's no obvious
(16:49):
immediate benefit to doing that,is really really important.
And it obvious immediatebenefit to doing that is really
really important and it doesn'thave to cost a lot.
So think about how manysuperficial conversations we
have.
Did you have a good weekend?
Yeah, not bad.
Thanks you.
What do you learn from that?
It's polite conversation, buthow was your weekend?
What did you get up to?
What was that like?
Just subtle shifts in thelanguage that we use encourage
(17:13):
people to give more expansiveresponses, to start to tap into
things that demonstrate what'simportant to them and the
emotions that sit with that.
So not only are you getting abetter understanding of them,
but they are also connectingwith the emotions more.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
And when they connect with the emotions more.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
They have a really good experience of interacting
with you.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Yeah, I think that this is important in our
interactions with people allaround us, but also our own
families, you know, especiallywithin our own families, like
you just said.
You know, every day my kidscome home from school.
How was your day?
Eh, and that's about it.
But, like you said, if youreally dig into it more and we
(17:52):
have to be mindful again to usethat word in order to do that,
because it's so easy just tofall- into those superficial
conversations, Definitely.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
And one thing that's really important in this is
silence.
We tend to think about charismaas being about doing.
Again, going back tomindfulness is also about being,
and one of the biggest giftsthat we can give to people is to
give them more of our time.
So, for instance, if I asksomebody a question, it's very
tempting to take them at thefirst answer and move on, ask
another question or hijack theanswer.
(18:19):
Oh yeah, I've done that too.
It's great, isn't it?
But sometimes, within reason,holding back for a fraction of a
moment allows somebody to heartheir own words, to connect with
the emotions and sometimes toqualify what they've just said.
And again, this is somethingthat I've used time and time
again in the coaching and thetherapy arena.
When you give people that extramoment, it's something they
(18:39):
don't get in most walks of life.
You think about how often we'reheld to account for the first
thing that comes out of ourmouth.
So now and again, doing thatallows you to open up things
that the other person wasn'taware of, that you weren't aware
of, so you have a deeperconnection than they would do
with the average person.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Yeah, and it's funny, the things you're saying, like
I said, are kind of taking meback to my prior career.
That was something else too,that moment of silence.
If you leave that momentlingering, the other person
feels the need to fill it, youknow.
And so if you just let them,then most of the time they will
go on and add more to what theywere going to say that you
(19:19):
wouldn't have gotten.
If you're just ready to jumpright in, yeah, absolutely so.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Obviously you've got to use it sparingly.
If you do it after every singlething they say, then that gets
very intense.
But now and again you know acouple of times in the
five-minute conversation is notnecessarily a big difference,
but actually it can make amassive difference to the
outcome.
And one of the biggestchallenges to that is that most
of us don't feel comfortable insilence, right.
So learning to sit with thesilence and even just saying,
(19:43):
well, I'm just going to go amoment longer than I normally
would and experiment with it themore you do it, the more you'll
learn to tolerate it.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
And you'll also hopefully see the benefits of
having done that Well.
I think these have been reallyhelpful in ways to help us
connect with our kids and helpus build these skills in our
kids, and I can particularly seehow these are helpful in the
business world and gettingnominated or tapped for certain
jobs or promotions or thingslike that.
What about just in the everydayworld?
Besides it making people feellistened to, why does this
(20:19):
matter so much that we teachthis to ourselves and our kids?
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Well, it's about creating psychological safety
With our children.
Even if we're a parent whoprides ourselves on being very
supportive of our kids, if wedon't give them opportunities to
fully express themselves or weonly respond to certain things
that they say, that indirectlygives a message about what's
(20:44):
okay and what's not okay and itpotentially causes problems
later in life in terms ofpressure people put on
themselves, in terms of whatthey divulge to people, maybe
when they're struggling.
So it creates that extra safetyfor people to feel comfortable
to express themselves.
So I think that's the firstthing that I would say, but I
think, in terms of children'spotential you know to be
(21:05):
everything they can be in lifeagain, creating that safe
container, creating space toexplore ideas, express things in
a way that they don't withother people, allows them to
grow in other areas that you orthey may not have considered
before.
And you know there's so manypeople that I encounter in the
coaching and therapy worldwho've been channeled not
(21:25):
necessarily because theirparents have said right, you've
got to do this or you've got tobehave like this, but because
they've picked up on the subtlecues about what's okay to
express what's not okay.
How much time have I got toexpress myself?
So it's like a pot plant thebigger the pot you give it, the
more the roots can grow.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Yeah, oh, I love that analogy and you're making me
identify things in myself thatapply to this.
So well, this has been reallyreally interesting, and we
haven't had a conversation likethis at all yet on the podcast.
Is there any other tips oranything else you want to leave
with parents about buildingcharisma and themselves and
their kids, or any last words ofwisdom that you want to share?
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yes, I think the final thing again taking this
from the world of business ishumility.
So as an adult, it's very easyto think we've got to have all
the answers to things andhopefully we've got the answers
to most things.
But I think sometimes showinghumility and even talking about
your own mistakes, particularlythe mistakes that you've
overcome, you're working throughit's really inspiring for other
people, and the same goes withchildren.
(22:26):
It allows children to developwhat we call a growth mindset,
in other words, to own theirmistakes, to talk about them
openly and to feel comfortabledoing that.
And again, what that means isthat they're more likely to grow
up in a healthy, balanced way.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Yeah, and that's, of course, what we all want for, as
parents, for all of our kids.
Well, richard, this has been agreat conversation.
You also have a new book outright?
We'll be sure to link to that.
But a new book out right?
We'll be sure to link to that.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
But if you want to tell us just briefly, about that
real quick too, and we'll havea link in the show notes.
Fantastic.
So the book is called CharismaUnlocked.
It's primarily aimed atbusiness people, but the skills
in there are transferable toanybody really, and you can just
pick out bits.
You don't have to read it allthe way through, but it gives
you some very practical insightsalong the similar lines to the
things that we've discussedtoday.
So you can find that on Amazonif that's something that
interests you.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
All right, we'll be sure to link to that, and we'll
also link to Richard's LinkedInand social media, so if you want
to connect with him withanything else, that information
will be there.
Again, we really appreciateyour time.
Thanks for being here.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Thanks, Elizabeth.
Welcome back to Speak Out.
Stand Out.
I'm Elizabeth Green and today'sguest is Richard Reed.
Richard is a behavioralpsychologist and an
organizational consultant,working with issues from severe
PTSD to leadership presence.
He is a published author andappears regularly on TV and
radio in the UK.
And, Richard, we're glad tohave you here today.
Thanks for your time.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Thanks, elizabeth, really good to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
So what you know, our podcast, our goal is to build
confidence and communicationskills in kids, and I know you,
what you are usually focused onoften is more tied to adults,
right?
We're talking about today?
We're talking about charismaand how to have charisma, how to
build charisma.
It just made me think of the.
I don't know if you're aSeinfeld fan, but the episode
(00:42):
where Elaine's talking aboutgrace.
Does she have grace?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
I don't know that just popped into my head, can
you?
Speaker 1 (00:48):
get grace?
You know, that was kind of thequestion Can you get it?
Can you get charisma?
So you typically talk aboutthese things for adults and like
leaders in the business world,but these are strategies and
skills that are just asimportant for our kids, right?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Absolutely.
It's universal skills foranybody really.
It's really about how youmanage yourself, how you
interact with other people, howyou get the best out of all the
social interactions that youhave, but also how you put a
good vibe out into the widerworld as well.
How do you help other people?
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Yeah, yeah, and I think that's important in all of
our interactions, butespecially in initial
interactions right with people,when we're making our first
impression.
That sets the stage for whatthey expect from us going
forward.
So what is charisma?
I mean, it's a word that,honestly, we don't use very
often, but I have an idea in myhead.
I see somebody kind of on stageand, you know, really
(01:42):
commanding attention.
Is that what charisma is?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Well, it can be.
It comes in different shapesand sizes.
You?
Speaker 1 (01:48):
know, you ask 100 people.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
They'll give you 100 different answers, but for me,
what it means is how you connectwith other people.
So you could be really sort ofloud, you could be, you know, at
a party or on stage anddominate in the room, but
actually are you connecting withother people?
The way you connect with otherpeople is by generating the
appropriate emotions within them, so either they feel drawn to
(02:10):
you, they feel that yourecognize them and that you're
on their side, or that youunderstand them.
So all of those things arefundamental needs for human
beings in any walk of life, andso the risk is that we tend to
think about extroverts as beingcharismatic, and while they can
be, there are also some very shy, retiring or introverted people
who can also be equallycharismatic.
(02:32):
They just need the rightenvironment in order to
demonstrate that.
So it's about celebratingpeople's uniqueness as much as
anything else.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Gotcha.
And so why is this an importantcharacteristic for us to have?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Well, I guess, whatever you do whether you're
at school, whether you'retalking to the mums in the
playground, whether you're in abusiness environment you're
connecting with people atdifferent times in different
ways.
So having charisma is reallygood in terms of unlocking those
relationships.
So not only do you come acrosswell, but you open up
(03:04):
opportunities that are usefulfor you, but also, hopefully,
you elevate other people as well.
So one important aspect ofcharisma is how we create a
virtuous circle.
How do we not only createsomething positive for us, but
put something positive out intothe world that helps other
people too?
So that is going to besomething that you encounter.
Whatever walk of life, you'regoing to be coming into contact
with people and it's really,really important to get on with
(03:26):
them and open thoseopportunities up.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Yeah, and I think as a mom, you know that's something
that we certainly want.
We talk about building socialskills in our kids, but it's so
much more than just being ableto speak to a stranger to order
at a restaurant.
You know, it's a, it's a matterof really, like you said
(03:48):
connecting with people and thatrelationships like that that's
what.
that's what make a difference.
Not just casual conversationsAbsolutely Earlier, when I was
talking about and people whodon't know Seinfeld have no clue
what I'm talking about but theepisode where Elaine is talking
about can I get grace?
Do you have grace?
Do you have to be born withgrace?
Can you get grace?
Can anybody get charisma, or isthis just something that some
people will just have and othersdon't?
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Well, I think it's fair to say that some people are
born with more of it thanothers, naturally, but it's
still something we have to workat, and even people who are very
charismatic.
If they're not mindful of howthey're coming across, they can
dilute the impact of that orthat can work against them.
But equally, if you're somebodywho doesn't regard yourself as
being charismatic, there areabsolutely skills you can learn
(04:27):
and develop that will help youto move further along that
continuum.
Everybody, in my belief, hasthe capacity to become more
charismatic and it's about.
It's ultimately about beingadaptable.
It's being true, to who you are, but it's also adapting aspects
of that to meet the people thatyou're with.
So you know you can easily becharismatic in one environment
(04:47):
and not charismatic at all inanother environment if you're
not using those skills in adeliberate and purposeful way.
So it's about recognizing whatthe situation needs as much as
anything else.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Well, you mentioned too that there's different.
You know ways that we can learnthis and become more
charismatic.
Can you give me some examples,specifically things that we can
instill in our kids and ourteenagers?
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Yeah, Well, I think the first thing is people tend
to think about charisma as beingabout an external set of
behaviors, and whilst it is, itstarts with how you manage your
internal world.
And so this is really aboutemotional intelligence,
recognizing what you'reexperiencing at any moment, what
you're giving at any moment,what you're giving out to the
world.
So you've got the sparecapacity and awareness to think
(05:29):
about what's going to be thebest resource to draw on, and
that's where you sort of getinto some of those external
behaviors.
But if you're not aware of youremotions, you're not aware of
the impact that you have, thenactually, you can have all the
skills in the world, you're notgoing to use them in necessarily
a successful way.
And this is the problem is thatpeople tend to behave in
certain ways without thinkingabout whether that's the best
(05:51):
option for that situation.
So when we do that, sometimesit hits the mark and sometimes
it doesn't, whereas if we areregistering what we're feeling,
we've got an opportunity tomanage that and have spare
capacity to think what do otherpeople need?
If you're overwhelmed by yourown emotions, you don think what
do other people need.
If you're overwhelmed by yourown emotions, you don't think
about what other people need,and that's where things start to
break down.
So emotional intelligence isthe first thing recognizing
(06:12):
what's going on for you, andthen having some skills to be
able to manage that, and it canbe very simple things.
Sometimes just registering theemotion means that you might
tread more carefully in thatnext situation.
Just that awareness can make adifference, but also things like
breathing.
Breathing is one of the biggestindications of how we're
feeling.
If we start to manage ourbreathing, we can also start to
(06:34):
inform how we feel.
So breathing is a really goodone.
Setting intentions how often dowe engage with people without
thinking about how we want tomake them feel?
We think about what we want tosay, but we don't think about
how we want to make them feel.
We think about what we want tosay, but we don't think about
how we want to make them feel,and that has a big bearing on
how we deliver the message.
So those are some very basicthings, but I think one of the
things that we're seeing moreand more in society and I think
(06:55):
particularly with children, isdifficulty managing an impulse.
So in other words you know,everything's very fast.
Everything's potentiallyavailable at the click of a
switch, and what that means iswe're becoming less and less
able to register our emotionsbut also to manage them, because
the brain's trained to wanteverything straight away.
(07:15):
So for me, one of the biggestthings that we can do with our
children is to teach them totolerate uncomfortable feelings,
and sometimes that is aboutgetting them to wait for things.
Sometimes it is about gettingthem to endure a little bit of
difficulty before they get theirreward, and sometimes it's
about allowing them to be bored.
(07:36):
How often do we feel we've gotto fill every minute of a
child's time?
Sometimes allowing them to bebored allows them to tolerate
those uncomfortable feelings,but also to learn how to manage
them and to be more creative,and if we're spoon-feeding them,
they don't develop that skill.
So those are some of the verybase things that we can do
before we start to get into someof the more advanced things
(07:57):
like body language, choice ofwords, how we use our voice, all
those sorts of more intricateskills.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Yeah, I think that you hit the nail on the head
with the boredom.
You know as a kid that was justpart of life.
You know like there were manytimes when we just had to sit
and wait, whether it be at thedoctor's office or just waiting
for the bus or whatever.
And now I find myself anytime Isit down and I'm going to be
waiting for anything.
What do I do Exactly?
Speaker 2 (08:25):
I'll let my phone Exactly.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
And it's so easy.
It is very hard as an adult nowto tolerate boredom, because we
have created this environmentwhere we don't have it, and that
is something that, if we're notcareful that our kids will
never experience because, likeyou said, there's so many things
going on at all times and theyalways have access to
entertainment in some form orfashion, that it's such a little
(08:48):
thing, but it is so.
It's so crucial.
So you mentioned to breathingand and that's how we can.
I know emotional intelligence issomething we've talked a lot
about on this podcast and it'ssomething that I think a lot of
adults even struggle with.
We weren't really taughtnecessarily to identify our
emotions, I feel like as kids, Idon't think that was a
conversation we were reallyhaving in that time and now I
(09:15):
feel like this is something weexpect that our kids to learn,
but it's still something that wehave to teach them how to name
emotions and understand thatRight, absolutely Going back to
your point about sort of mobilephones and devices, one of the
biggest things we can do for ourchildren is to model the
behavior that we want them todisplay.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
So we're not walking the walk.
It's very hard to enforce thatand a lot of these things happen
through osmosis, just beingaround people and not
consciously modeling otherpeople's behaviors, but just
picking them up.
So start by making the changethat you want to happen in other
people.
So it is about cutting back onthe screen time.
It is about having downtimewhere there's nothing planned,
(09:58):
nothing going on.
It is about reducing options.
Another thing to think about isyou know, as a society we have
far more options.
You know.
You think about just buying acoffee how big a decision that
becomes.
You've got to make 20 or 30different options you can have
for a coffee.
And again, having options meansthat we never have to just suck
it up, you know.
So think about.
(10:19):
You know, going back to daysgone by, you might have two or
three options and if you didn'tlike those, that's tough.
But you learn to be resourceful, you learn to manage it.
So I think some of those kindsof things would be a really good
place to start, but one of thethings that we can do is look at
skills around something calledmindfulness, which I'm sure
you've heard about before.
Mindfulness is really aboutfocused attention.
(10:41):
People tend to think about itas being about meditation or
feeling relaxed, and it can be,but it's ultimately about you
choosing where you're puttingyour attention and think about
key times when we're togetherwith our families.
It tends to be, for example,mealtimes, or it could be
mealtimes Sometimes it's not.
(11:01):
People are eating at differenttimes because of busy lifestyles
, but getting people to eattogether is a great opportunity
to introduce some mindfulness.
And you know I'm notparticularly religious, but you
know you think about days goneby when people were religious.
They would often have a prayerbefore they started the meal.
And I'm not necessarilyadvocating that people become
religious if that's not their,their preference, but there is
(11:22):
something in that which gets usto connect and appreciate what
we're doing, and it's alsoreally important in terms of
building emotional intelligence.
So one of the ways in which wecan adapt that, if we're not
religious, is just to have aminute at the start of a meal
where we eat in silence and weencourage everybody in the
family to notice all thesensations that go with the act
(11:45):
of eating.
So what does it look like, whatdoes it smell like, what does
it feel like in my tongue, whatdoes it feel like as it's going
down my throat and then todiscuss it afterwards?
So by doing that.
What you're doing is you'restarting to extend people's
emotional vocabulary and theirability to express themselves,
and that's a really good way,just for a minute, of trying to
do that to the exclusion of anyother thought or conversation.
(12:07):
It's a great way to start totrain the brain to be more
disciplined and more focused,and that's a really good
building block for emotionalintelligence.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
I think that I love that example.
That's something that's easyfor all parents to attempt to.
Oh, my goodness, I just lostthe word to.
Oh, the word's not coming to me.
It's an easy thing for us to doas parents.
And also just nice to have aminute of silence and appreciate
the food that we have.
(12:35):
But when you talk aboutmindfulness, to me it is
something that sounds sointimidating, like I.
You know it's so hard to keepfocused If I try to sit down and
and just you know, whatever itis, I'm trying to focus on
something it is so hard to dothese days.
So I love the idea of justdoing it for a minute at the
beginning of each meal.
That sounds like feasible, youknow, that sounds like something
(12:57):
we can do and then weultimately build on that right.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
It's like going to the gym and training the muscle.
It takes time, and what Ialways say to people is, if you
find some of these exercisesdifficult, that's all the more
reason why you should be doingthem.
If you find them difficult,it's because there's a need for
you to practice them.
So you know, it could be a meal, it could be walking down the
street and just feeling the airon your skin for a minute.
It could be in the shower youknow how often do we take a
shower and we think about allthe things we've got to do that
(13:21):
day.
Just being in that moment and agreat one for mindfulness is
Lego, okay.
So if ever I want to feelmindful, I play Lego with my
kids.
It's a great way to lose sightof time and anything else that
might be on your mind.
So revisiting that playfulbehavior is also a really good
(13:42):
way of getting more engaged withmindfulness.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
And so tell me again.
I mean, we're talking aboutmindfulness, but how does this
mindfulness seem to me andcharisma seem complete.
They do not seem like synonyms,or how are they connected.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
So mindfulness allows you to have more ability to
recognize what's going on foryou in a given moment.
So, for example, if I've justhad a conversation with somebody
and I've been rattled by it, ifI'm aware of that, I've got an
opportunity to manage it beforeI speak to the next person.
So I don't carry that over intothat next conversation.
So that's one way in which wecan use it.
(14:17):
Another way in which we can useit is when we are engaging with
people, when we're talking withpeople.
How often we talk with peopleand we're thinking about what we
want to say next and we'rethinking about something that's
happening after thatconversation.
So we happening after thatconversation.
So you know, we might come awayfrom the conversation being
able to recount all the facts ofthe conversation, but we're not
(14:38):
connecting on that deeper levelwhere we're thinking, well,
what does this mean for somebody?
What's the emotionalsignificance of what they're
saying?
How are they physicallyreacting to what I'm saying?
All those kinds of nuances thatyou don't recognize unless
you're fully engaged.
And again, if we're thinkingabout what we want to say next,
you're not following theconversation.
In other words, you're runningto a script.
So the best conversations thatopen things up and connect with
(14:58):
people are ones that are freshlybaked, and I come from a
therapy background so, speakingas a therapist, I learned very
early on that when I go offscript, those are some of the
most profound conversations thatI have with people.
When I don't go in there withany expectations of what we're
going to do, it's amazing howthings go in a very, very
different way.
So actually you don't createthese self-fulfilling prophecies
about how it's going to be.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
You know I used to be a news reporter and you just
jogged that memory in my brainthat we would always start
rolling the camera as we weresetting up the interview.
And 90% of the time thesoundbites that we used were
from that section, not wheneverI was asking specific questions
and, like you said, it's justmore authentic, but outside of,
let's say, getting a goodsoundbite.
(15:40):
Why does it matter?
Why does any of this matter?
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Good question.
Well, it matters for a numberof reasons.
It matters on a social level.
So, in terms of the societythat we want to create, people
tend to be more engaged insociety when they feel seen and
heard.
So you think about it on thebroader scale.
That's important.
When we have a conversation withsomebody and we make them feel
good, either we acknowledgesomething about them or we
(16:08):
unpack something that maybe theyweren't aware of before.
They come away feeling goodabout themselves and they come
away feeling good aboutthemselves and also they become
away feeling good about us.
And imagine, you know, one ofthe things I always talk about
with charisma is think ofyourself as a brand.
Most of us don't think in thoseterms, but actually, if you
were to ask lots of people whoknew you to be honest about you
when you're not in the room,they would probably come back
(16:29):
with very similar descriptions,and that's ultimately a big part
of your brand.
And when you're engaging withother people using some of these
skills, those people are yourpotential marketing team for
your brand.
Those are the people that keepyou in mind when opportunities
open up.
Those are the people who speakwell of you to other people.
So, engaging with people, evenwhen there's no obvious
(16:49):
immediate benefit to doing that,is really really important.
And it obvious immediatebenefit to doing that is really
really important and it doesn'thave to cost a lot.
So think about how manysuperficial conversations we
have.
Did you have a good weekend?
Yeah, not bad.
Thanks you.
What do you learn from that?
It's polite conversation, buthow was your weekend?
What did you get up to?
What was that like?
Just subtle shifts in thelanguage that we use encourage
(17:13):
people to give more expansiveresponses, to start to tap into
things that demonstrate what'simportant to them and the
emotions that sit with that.
So not only are you getting abetter understanding of them,
but they are also connectingwith the emotions more.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
And when they connect with the emotions more.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
They have a really good experience of interacting
with you.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Yeah, I think that this is important in our
interactions with people allaround us, but also our own
families, you know, especiallywithin our own families, like
you just said.
You know, every day my kidscome home from school.
How was your day?
Eh, and that's about it.
But, like you said, if youreally dig into it more and we
(17:52):
have to be mindful again to usethat word in order to do that,
because it's so easy just tofall- into those superficial
conversations, Definitely.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
And one thing that's really important in this is
silence.
We tend to think about charismaas being about doing.
Again, going back tomindfulness is also about being,
and one of the biggest giftsthat we can give to people is to
give them more of our time.
So, for instance, if I asksomebody a question, it's very
tempting to take them at thefirst answer and move on, ask
another question or hijack theanswer.
(18:19):
Oh yeah, I've done that too.
It's great, isn't it?
But sometimes, within reason,holding back for a fraction of a
moment allows somebody to heartheir own words, to connect with
the emotions and sometimes toqualify what they've just said.
And again, this is somethingthat I've used time and time
again in the coaching and thetherapy arena.
When you give people that extramoment, it's something they
(18:39):
don't get in most walks of life.
You think about how often we'reheld to account for the first
thing that comes out of ourmouth.
So now and again, doing thatallows you to open up things
that the other person wasn'taware of, that you weren't aware
of, so you have a deeperconnection than they would do
with the average person.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Yeah, and it's funny, the things you're saying, like
I said, are kind of taking meback to my prior career.
That was something else too,that moment of silence.
If you leave that momentlingering, the other person
feels the need to fill it, youknow.
And so if you just let them,then most of the time they will
go on and add more to what theywere going to say that you
(19:19):
wouldn't have gotten.
If you're just ready to jumpright in, yeah, absolutely so.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Obviously you've got to use it sparingly.
If you do it after every singlething they say, then that gets
very intense.
But now and again you know acouple of times in the
five-minute conversation is notnecessarily a big difference,
but actually it can make amassive difference to the
outcome.
And one of the biggestchallenges to that is that most
of us don't feel comfortable insilence, right.
So learning to sit with thesilence and even just saying,
(19:43):
well, I'm just going to go amoment longer than I normally
would and experiment with it themore you do it, the more you'll
learn to tolerate it.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
And you'll also hopefully see the benefits of
having done that Well.
I think these have been reallyhelpful in ways to help us
connect with our kids and helpus build these skills in our
kids, and I can particularly seehow these are helpful in the
business world and gettingnominated or tapped for certain
jobs or promotions or thingslike that.
What about just in the everydayworld?
Besides it making people feellistened to, why does this
(20:19):
matter so much that we teachthis to ourselves and our kids?
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Well, it's about creating psychological safety
With our children.
Even if we're a parent whoprides ourselves on being very
supportive of our kids, if wedon't give them opportunities to
fully express themselves or weonly respond to certain things
that they say, that indirectlygives a message about what's
(20:44):
okay and what's not okay and itpotentially causes problems
later in life in terms ofpressure people put on
themselves, in terms of whatthey divulge to people, maybe
when they're struggling.
So it creates that extra safetyfor people to feel comfortable
to express themselves.
So I think that's the firstthing that I would say, but I
think, in terms of children'spotential you know to be
(21:05):
everything they can be in lifeagain, creating that safe
container, creating space toexplore ideas, express things in
a way that they don't withother people, allows them to
grow in other areas that you orthey may not have considered
before.
And you know there's so manypeople that I encounter in the
coaching and therapy worldwho've been channeled not
(21:25):
necessarily because theirparents have said right, you've
got to do this or you've got tobehave like this, but because
they've picked up on the subtlecues about what's okay to
express what's not okay.
How much time have I got toexpress myself?
So it's like a pot plant thebigger the pot you give it, the
more the roots can grow.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Yeah, oh, I love that analogy and you're making me
identify things in myself thatapply to this.
So well, this has been reallyreally interesting, and we
haven't had a conversation likethis at all yet on the podcast.
Is there any other tips oranything else you want to leave
with parents about buildingcharisma and themselves and
their kids, or any last words ofwisdom that you want to share?
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yes, I think the final thing again taking this
from the world of business ishumility.
So as an adult, it's very easyto think we've got to have all
the answers to things andhopefully we've got the answers
to most things.
But I think sometimes showinghumility and even talking about
your own mistakes, particularlythe mistakes that you've
overcome, you're working throughit's really inspiring for other
people, and the same goes withchildren.
(22:26):
It allows children to developwhat we call a growth mindset,
in other words, to own theirmistakes, to talk about them
openly and to feel comfortabledoing that.
And again, what that means isthat they're more likely to grow
up in a healthy, balanced way.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Yeah, and that's, of course, what we all want for, as
parents, for all of our kids.
Well, richard, this has been agreat conversation.
You also have a new book outright?
We'll be sure to link to that.
But a new book out right?
We'll be sure to link to that.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
But if you want to tell us just briefly, about that
real quick too, and we'll havea link in the show notes.
Fantastic.
So the book is called CharismaUnlocked.
It's primarily aimed atbusiness people, but the skills
in there are transferable toanybody really, and you can just
pick out bits.
You don't have to read it allthe way through, but it gives
you some very practical insightsalong the similar lines to the
things that we've discussedtoday.
So you can find that on Amazonif that's something that
interests you.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
All right, we'll be sure to link to that, and we'll
also link to Richard's LinkedInand social media, so if you want
to connect with him withanything else, that information
will be there.
Again, we really appreciateyour time.
Thanks for being here.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Thanks, Elizabeth.
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