January 6, 2025 • 22 mins
Unlock the power of music to connect and communicate in this episode with Samantha Foote, a board-certified music therapist and parenting coach.
Feel the beat of self-regulation and witness the bond it can forge within your family. Samantha generously offers resources to help make these connections in your own life, from easy-to-follow tips to tech-savvy ways to bring the right tunes into your daily routine. Whether you're a parent seeking a harmonious home or simply looking to understand the emotive force of music, this episode resonates with insight, inviting you to elevate your emotional well-being and family relationships through the timeless language of music.
Connect with Samantha
Listen to the Every Brain is Different podcast here, check out the Boise Music Therapy website or Instagram, and join the Parenting with Confidence Facebook group here.
Get a free mini lesson plus 52 prompts so your kids can practice every week here!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to Speak Out Standout.
I'm Elizabeth Green and today'sguest is Samantha Foote.
Samantha is a board certifiedmusic therapist and parent and
coach with a mission tostrengthen, guide and empower
parents and children to developemotional awareness, improve
social skills and gain effectivecoping skills through music.
So, Samantha, we're reallyexcited to have you here today.
(00:23):
Thanks for your time.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Yeah, thanks for having me on, I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
So, samantha, let's start first of all, like how did
you I mean, that's a quicklittle synopsis, a very quick
synopsis of what you do, but howdid you get to this point where
your business and your missionis to focus on using music to
build and strengthenrelationships?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Yeah, so it actually starts in high school and I had
there was this kid with autismthat I went to church with and
everyone's like, oh, you don'ttalk to him because he has
autism.
And I was like autism, what'sautism?
And so I started likeresearching that and then I
found music and I was like Ineed to know what I'm going to
(01:02):
be studying in college.
And so I was a junior in highschool because I'm like that,
and I found I was like I wantpsychology and I want music, and
so I found music therapy, whichwas super awesome.
And then through school andmusic, through school, I just
gravitated towards children andthen I mostly work with kids and
adults with autism and otherdevelopmental disabilities.
(01:25):
But I really want to help thosekids and I also work with
parents now just to connect witheach other and learn how to
connect better and speak eachother's language so that they
can have that strongerrelationship that they want.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Yeah, and that's so important and obviously that's,
you know, the goal of what we'reafter here at Speak Out
Standout is to give parentsthose skills so we can build the
you know, build thoserelationships at home.
But how does this tie intomusic?
What does that have to do withanything?
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Yeah, so music.
I like the, I like the quote.
When words fail, music speaks,and so when you don't know what
to say or you don't quite knowthe words, then you can always
use music and that can helppeople come together and they
actually.
There's a lot of benefits toplaying music.
So if you play music in a groupor with other people, then your
(02:17):
empathy circuits in your brainlike improve and your cortisol
decreases and you're just ableto connect with people in a way
that you wouldn't be able to anyother way.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
I think that I mean the most that I could relate to
this or have any understandingof it is that I know if I'm
feeling down, turning on musichelps.
Or if people are in it's likethat time of the evening where
everybody's starting to get alittle agitated just because
lots of things going on, thatturning on music can oftentimes
help slow things down a littlebit.
(02:48):
So I don't know the ins andouts of why, but I know that it
does work here in my house withjust it, depending on what we're
listening to.
So well, how do we take thisand run with this at home and
use music therapy to support ourkids and help our kids learn
how to communicate?
Speaker 2 (03:06):
So there is a few things that you can do at home
and if you want to work with amusic therapist, definitely look
one up in your area becausethey can do tailored Taylor a
plan to you.
But if, let's say, you'rehaving your child is very angry
and you want to use music to getthem to a more peaceful setting
(03:26):
, there's a thing called the ISOprinciple and it's where you
take and you listen to music.
That's what is your emotionalstate at the moment.
So you, if you're feeling angry, you just don't want to turn on
happy music.
That won't Lead your body tohappiness as well as if you turn
on angry music and then youslowly go to happy music, then
(03:47):
you're more likely to stay inthat zone and it gets you there
more easily.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Then, if you just jolted your body into the happy
music because your body needs toprocess those emotions, even if
you don't understand it, onlike in your mind, your body can
process those emotions usingthat different kind of music and
so when you say they're likelistening to angry music, I like
nothing comes to mind there,and maybe it's just because of
my taste in music, I don't knowbut like I wouldn't know what to
(04:14):
turn on, and certainly my kidswouldn't know what to turn on.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
How do we have so you can talk to a music therapist
and also just think about yourdifferent tastes in music.
So when I think of angry music,I think of Lincoln Park, and so
I might turn on Lincoln Parkand then end up like if my kids,
like three years old, like endup with the wheels on the bus,
you know, but um it just, itreally depends on your taste.
(04:39):
Like everyone's angry music I'musing air quotes everyone's
angry music might be different.
So whatever is angry to you solike there is a song on Mario,
like Bowser's theme or somethinglike that that one of my kids
listened to and they're likethis is angry music.
And so if, if he was angry andI wanted to get him to a happier
(05:03):
state, I would probably turn onlike a Mario theme song, like
the Bowser song, and then go toa different Mario song because
he's super into Mario Brothersright now.
So it's all in what your kidsare interested in.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Gotcha, and did they even?
Do you discuss this with themand they know that this is what
you're doing by playing thedifferent types of music or is
it something that we can just dous, knowing that it has
benefits for them?
Speaker 2 (05:26):
When kids are dysregulated, I have found that
using the least amount of wordspossible is the best.
So If you want to talk to themabout what you did after you do
it, I think that's a great idea.
Be like okay, the next timethis happens we're gonna turn on
some music, we're gonna turn onsome angry music and then we're
gonna go to happy music andwe're just gonna go on that
journey together.
(05:46):
But if they're angry and you'rewanting to do this, I want to
talk to them and be like okay,now I'm gonna turn on this music
and then we're gonna listen tothis music.
I would just do it, gotcha.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Okay, okay.
So let's back up just a littlebit too.
You said when they'redysregulated, what does that
mean?
Speaker 2 (06:03):
so if you're overwhelmed, everyone gets
dysregulated, just emotionallydysregulated, where you just
can't think straight becauseJust everything is happening.
So so you might feeloverwhelmed just from the lights
being too bright or there'snoise going on, or your clothes
are itchy, or Just everything ishappening at the same time, and
that that's when you get reallydysregulated.
(06:24):
But, like for my kids, theymight get dysregulated because
they have to wear a long-sleeveshirt and so they're just angry,
and so then when one littlething happens that tips the
scale, and so then they have to,they get dysregulated.
You know their body isdysregulated.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
So it's not just a state of mind, it's an actual
physical thing as well, right?
Yeah, it could be yeah.
Experiencing it physically.
Yeah, and then like what areyour?
I know you have tips andstrategies for dealing with that
dysregulation, For both adultsand for kids.
So what are like?
What are some of your go-tosthat you share with people?
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Yeah, so if a kid is having a hard time processing an
emotion Before they get intothat dysregulated state, we
might talk about emotion.
So I use the spot books byDiane Albert and those are for
kids a little bit younger, but Ialso like they're for four to
eight year olds, but they can beused for older kids just to
(07:22):
illustrate the point.
And then we talk about whatanger might look like.
We go through the five senses,so what does it look like, what
does it feel like, what does itsound like, like all those
different things.
And then we write a song abouthow it looks, how it feels, how
it tastes all that differentstuff.
And then we might say whenwe're sad, well, sadness makes
(07:45):
me, no, what was I gonna say?
Oh sorry, like something makesme sad, so this makes me sad.
And then we talk about fourdifferent things that might make
you sad.
And then we'll talk about fourdifferent things that you can do
when you're feeling sad to getto where you want to be.
And we write that in a song.
And I usually do it onGarageBand, because the kids can
(08:06):
make up their own song reallyeasily using GarageBand and it
comes free on all Apple productsso you can use it and mess
around with it.
But that's what I do to helpkids process their emotions and
then when they are sad, we cango back to that song and be like
, okay, you said you wanted todo this, let's try this strategy
.
And that might be going for awalk or playing the piano or
(08:30):
doing anything that makes themhappy reading a book, being
alone.
Some people like to scream inthe pillows, like it's just all
different things.
That just to the specificperson, what they might want to
do.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Yeah, and how does this apply?
I know that you work, you setup a lot with kids with autism.
How does this apply toespecially a non-verbal or an
autistic child with limitedcommunications?
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Yeah.
So I think song and music cancome into play way more when
that happens because they're notable to express with words as
much as they can with music.
So I've had kids like play thepiano or play the guitar or just
play instruments.
Like I'll give them aninstrument and I'll say play how
you're feeling right now.
(09:18):
And just playing how they'refeeling can help them get that
out, so that they're expressingthemselves but they're not using
words to do it.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Oh, yeah, that makes sense and even if, I mean,
you're not just talking aboutpeople who are musically
inclined, right?
No, no, no.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Everybody.
Yeah, so there's actually astudy done.
This was interesting.
So they took a group ofnon-musicians and put them in a
stressful environment.
The stressful environment wasdoing a puzzle that had.
No, they couldn't put thepuzzle together.
None of the pieces fit together.
And they did that for an hour.
And then they took one groupand they let them just relax how
(09:54):
they wanted to, like read anewspaper, lay on the couch,
just whatever they wanted to do.
And then they took anothergroup and they were not
musicians and they just played akeyboard for an hour and that
was shown to reduce stress on aDNA level.
So six of the DNA markers forstress were reversed when the
(10:16):
people just did their normalrelaxation.
And then 18 of the stressmarkers were reversed for the
non-musicians who played music.
Oh wow, so you can get thebenefit of music, like, even if
you're not a musician, it doesnot matter.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
That's awesome, that is very cool, Because I can
imagine that being a stressfulenvironment if you don't know
how to play.
But that's so.
That's interesting that it'sthe reverse, yeah, yeah.
And what about, like, if we'rein a situation we wanna use
music to help our kidscommunicate with us, but we
don't have any instrumentsaround?
You know what did we do?
Maybe we're in the car, I meanobviously by the radio, but you
(10:51):
have a little control over theradio.
It's not even like being at homewhere I can say Alexa, play
this.
You know what do you do whenthere's, when you have no
options.
As far as that goes, I justsing.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
I would just recommend singing so you can
make up songs together.
You can also.
There's like mad libs for music, a fun game to play with your
kids.
You can do this seriously orjust having fun, where you just
take out different words in thesong and then they write the
words that they want in the songand then you can just sing it
(11:22):
that way.
Or you can take a song that youjust rewrite the whole song and
do it that way too.
But you can always just sing.
You always have your voice, oryou can hum or you can do
whatever that way.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Gotcha.
So what other things do youwant parents out there to know
about music therapy and how itcan be used in our daily lives?
Speaker 2 (11:44):
So I would just say using music, start small.
If you're not using music rightnow, just start small.
So in the morning, if you sayaffirmations, you can drum while
you're singing the affirmations.
So I don't have a drum rightnow, but just play on the drum
while you're singing it.
So, and then if you want tosing the affirmations, you can
(12:06):
say I am a peacemaker, like,just sing it and you'll get the
benefits.
And then there's differentthings you can do.
If you want to start playing onthe piano, then just start
small and just take one fingerand, you know, play each of the
keys with just one finger, andthen you might start one finger
(12:27):
on both hands and then any ofthe keys that you can reach with
one hand and then any of thekeys you can reach with two
hands.
And you can do this with yourkids.
If you just play the black keys, it creates a type of scale
that sounds good.
No matter what you play and nomatter what notes you play
together, it will sound good.
And so just start small.
(12:47):
And there's another thing thatyou can do.
It's called drum talk and youhave a conversation using drums.
Or if you don't have a drum,you can just do body percussion
and just play on your lap orplay up here.
I was in a band in eighth gradethat we just did body
percussion, and so if you don'thave any of the instruments, you
can just use body percussion.
But you have a conversationback and forth.
(13:09):
So if this is a time when youmight be feeling a little
overwhelmed and not being ableto express what you wanna
express vocally, you can expressit through drumming and then
you just go back and forth, justlike you're having a normal
conversation.
I did this with two kids whowere siblings and they did not
like each other and they were soangry they couldn't even talk
(13:32):
to each other.
And so I sat them down and wedid the drum talk and by the end
of it they had calmed down,they had, like, beaten out their
rage.
By the end of it they were ableto calm down enough that they
actually had a conversation andwere able to work things out.
So just that's a differentthing that you can do if you're
having a hard time.
Your teenager's really grumpyand you don't know what to do.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
So yeah, yeah, that's what I was gonna ask.
Next is how do we get ourteenagers, who are grumpy and
oftentimes reluctant, to dothings that are a little outside
of the box?
How do we get them to do it andis it worth is the payoff there
at the end, if it's afrustration to get them to do it
?
Speaker 2 (14:10):
I would say go at their pace and what they're
interested in.
So if your teenager isinterested in guitar, then learn
guitar and learn to play withthem, but give them their space.
If they want to just do italone like respect that and if
they don't want to engage in themusic stuff, I wouldn't force
it, but I would just invite themto do it with you.
(14:32):
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
So any other tips or words of advice that we can use,
like I said, for any age?
Range to help build thesecommunication skills, because I
know before we hit record, youand I were discussing how all
behavior is communication, right, so let's kind of talk about
that a little bit more and howwe can determine what our
children are trying to say whenthey're not able to verbalize it
(14:56):
.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Yeah.
So all behavior iscommunication.
Your child is not doingsomething just to do it.
There's reinforcement somewhere.
They're getting a payoffsomehow.
It's like how we go to our jobsand we might like our jobs, but
what's the root of why we go?
It's probably to get money, andso the kids, they all have
reinforcement for what they do.
(15:16):
So if they are just beingterrorizers and being naughty
and just not doing things thatthey're supposed to do, I would
look at that as a cry or an askfrom them for your attention and
for connection.
They want to feel connected toyou and that's why they're doing
all these things to get thenegative attention that you
might be giving them.
(15:36):
If they do something you'relike, oh, don't do that, that's
still negative attention, where,if they're doing something good
or positive and you really likewhat they're doing, they
over-like, overwhelm them withpositive attention.
And that's something that wecan do with music If you have
younger kids.
I just stress that with babies.
(15:58):
There's research that shows thatsinging to your children has a
lot of different benefits forthem and they attune to your
voice.
So it does not matter if youcan sing well, they don't care.
I would just invite you to singlullabies and sing other songs
to your young children and thenkeep singing as they grow up.
(16:19):
There are so many benefits tosinging and playing instruments
and drumming and it's not likethe normal, like, oh, you're
just going to be.
A lot of people are like, oh,you're better at math.
This took a tangent from yourfirst question.
I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
You're good, you're good.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Keep going with this, I like it.
So they, you know, like a lotof people are like oh, it gives
you discipline, it gives you,you know your good math or
whatever, because math is usedin music.
But also, you know, it improvesempathy and improves your
immune system and improves yoursocial skills Just a bunch of
different things that can happenwhen you use music, Even if
(16:57):
you're not good at music or Ithink everyone is musical.
They might not be like the bestsinger or the best piano player
or whatever, but everyone ismusical and even if you just
want to dance, there are so manybenefits to dancing.
It improves, like it canimprove grief.
So you're not, you're notfeeling grief as much, and just
(17:18):
psychological things, physicalthings, all the different things
can be improved by music.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
That's, and it not just playing music, but even
just listening to it, right,yeah, just get the benefit both
ways.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
There are definitely more benefits when you engage,
but there are benefits when youjust listen to music.
But if you're engaging in itand singing, playing, dancing,
whatever there are more benefits.
And there's even more benefitsif you do it in a group.
Okay, good to know.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
And I love that.
You said even you know sing toyour kids, even if you don't
think you're a good singer,because I know I am not a good
singer and so there's alwaysthat hesitation to sing in front
of people, but so that's reallyinteresting.
I'm glad you said that thebabies don't care.
Now my 14 year old is quick totell me that I'm not a good
singer, but my four year oldshirt certainly won't.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
The teenagers probably don't care.
I mean, the teenagers do care,babies definitely not like.
If they get to talking age andthey don't think you're a good
singer, they might tell you, butthey still enjoy it.
You know, like I've had kidswho will tell people and be like
I don't like the way you sing,but let's keep doing it, you
know.
So they just want to connectwith you and that, like singing,
(18:31):
is a great way to connect,especially with young kids.
And then when with teenagers.
I just have to tell you a funnystory.
My mom, my sisters are a lotyounger than I am, so they were
all teenagers when I was like 30.
And I was over at my parentshouse and my mom and my sisters
were arguing and then my momjust turned on music and just
started dancing and we justturned into a huge dance party
(18:55):
and everyone forgot what theywere arguing about and we all
started laughing and dancing andso that's something you can do,
a teenager, you know.
Just Just dance or just turn onmusic that they like or
whatever.
But yeah, so that was apositive thing that she did.
That day.
She was like I'm done with this, we're just gonna dance, yes no
, I can attest to that too.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
That has been my mantra for the past few years is
, when things, when people startgetting grouchy, I'm gonna turn
on music that I like and itmakes me happy, you know, when
it changes my perspective onthings and makes it easier for
me to handle with sarcasticcomments or anything like that
you know from the kids.
But but what you said, therewas something key that I need to
(19:35):
remember turn on music thatthey like to, because you know,
obviously we want to listen tomusic we like, but, yeah, if we
want that same benefit for them,it has to be something that
they're enjoying to.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
I think you also brought up a good point that if
you're dysregulated you can'thelp your dysregulated child.
So if you need to get regulated, music is a great way to do
that, like we talked about inthe beginning, and just get
yourself regulated, take a fewminutes and then you can go talk
to your child or do an activitywith them.
But you have to be regulatedbefore you can expect them to be
(20:06):
regulated to absolutely Well,samantha.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
This is really helpful, and you have obviously
social media channels websiteprogram.
Tell us a little bit more aboutthat, if anybody's interested
in learning more about usingmusic therapy or even
potentially working with you.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Yeah, so I have a podcast where I talk more about
this stuff.
It's every brain is different,and you can find us on instagram
at every brain is different.
And then you can find Boisemusic therapy company.
We're on instagram at Boisemusic therapy and then our
website is Boise music therapycompany dot com.
If you go to our website, youcan download a free PDF that has
(20:46):
three ways that you can createa greater connection with your
child Perfect and that is whatwe're all about.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
So I love it and even though, like, I don't feel like
I am necessarily musicallyinclined, I did play the piano
growing up as a kid, but I thinkI just did what I had to do to
get by and I didn't really comenatural to me, but still it,
even though I don't know enoughabout me, is going to much about
it and don't play anyinstruments and don't sing, I
can appreciate it and how itdoes change our moods and
(21:13):
ultimately, our behaviors.
So I think this is an importantthing to keep in mind as we go
day to day, because it's notmuch easier than saying Alexa,
turn on my favorite song, youknow yeah, I do that every day.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Sometimes, when Alexa turns on my favorite music, I'm
like where did you get thismusic from?
So it's also a good way to findnew music, apparently, when you
don't have your favorite songs.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Oh, goodness well, thank you so much again.
We really appreciate your timeand your insight and, as always,
will link to everything in theshow notes.
Hey, thank, you.
Welcome back to Speak Out Standout.
I'm Elizabeth Green and today'sguest is Samantha Foote.
Samantha is a board certifiedmusic therapist and parent and
coach with a mission tostrengthen, guide and empower
parents and children to developemotional awareness, improve
social skills and gain effectivecoping skills through music.
So, Samantha, we're reallyexcited to have you here today.
(00:23):
Thanks for your time.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Yeah, thanks for having me on, I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
So, samantha, let's start first of all, like how did
you I mean, that's a quicklittle synopsis, a very quick
synopsis of what you do, but howdid you get to this point where
your business and your missionis to focus on using music to
build and strengthenrelationships?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Yeah, so it actually starts in high school and I had
there was this kid with autismthat I went to church with and
everyone's like, oh, you don'ttalk to him because he has
autism.
And I was like autism, what'sautism?
And so I started likeresearching that and then I
found music and I was like Ineed to know what I'm going to
(01:02):
be studying in college.
And so I was a junior in highschool because I'm like that,
and I found I was like I wantpsychology and I want music, and
so I found music therapy, whichwas super awesome.
And then through school andmusic, through school, I just
gravitated towards children andthen I mostly work with kids and
adults with autism and otherdevelopmental disabilities.
(01:25):
But I really want to help thosekids and I also work with
parents now just to connect witheach other and learn how to
connect better and speak eachother's language so that they
can have that strongerrelationship that they want.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Yeah, and that's so important and obviously that's,
you know, the goal of what we'reafter here at Speak Out
Standout is to give parentsthose skills so we can build the
you know, build thoserelationships at home.
But how does this tie intomusic?
What does that have to do withanything?
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Yeah, so music.
I like the, I like the quote.
When words fail, music speaks,and so when you don't know what
to say or you don't quite knowthe words, then you can always
use music and that can helppeople come together and they
actually.
There's a lot of benefits toplaying music.
So if you play music in a groupor with other people, then your
(02:17):
empathy circuits in your brainlike improve and your cortisol
decreases and you're just ableto connect with people in a way
that you wouldn't be able to anyother way.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
I think that I mean the most that I could relate to
this or have any understandingof it is that I know if I'm
feeling down, turning on musichelps.
Or if people are in it's likethat time of the evening where
everybody's starting to get alittle agitated just because
lots of things going on, thatturning on music can oftentimes
help slow things down a littlebit.
(02:48):
So I don't know the ins andouts of why, but I know that it
does work here in my house withjust it, depending on what we're
listening to.
So well, how do we take thisand run with this at home and
use music therapy to support ourkids and help our kids learn
how to communicate?
Speaker 2 (03:06):
So there is a few things that you can do at home
and if you want to work with amusic therapist, definitely look
one up in your area becausethey can do tailored Taylor a
plan to you.
But if, let's say, you'rehaving your child is very angry
and you want to use music to getthem to a more peaceful setting
(03:26):
, there's a thing called the ISOprinciple and it's where you
take and you listen to music.
That's what is your emotionalstate at the moment.
So you, if you're feeling angry, you just don't want to turn on
happy music.
That won't Lead your body tohappiness as well as if you turn
on angry music and then youslowly go to happy music, then
(03:47):
you're more likely to stay inthat zone and it gets you there
more easily.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Then, if you just jolted your body into the happy
music because your body needs toprocess those emotions, even if
you don't understand it, onlike in your mind, your body can
process those emotions usingthat different kind of music and
so when you say they're likelistening to angry music, I like
nothing comes to mind there,and maybe it's just because of
my taste in music, I don't knowbut like I wouldn't know what to
(04:14):
turn on, and certainly my kidswouldn't know what to turn on.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
How do we have so you can talk to a music therapist
and also just think about yourdifferent tastes in music.
So when I think of angry music,I think of Lincoln Park, and so
I might turn on Lincoln Parkand then end up like if my kids,
like three years old, like endup with the wheels on the bus,
you know, but um it just, itreally depends on your taste.
(04:39):
Like everyone's angry music I'musing air quotes everyone's
angry music might be different.
So whatever is angry to you solike there is a song on Mario,
like Bowser's theme or somethinglike that that one of my kids
listened to and they're likethis is angry music.
And so if, if he was angry andI wanted to get him to a happier
(05:03):
state, I would probably turn onlike a Mario theme song, like
the Bowser song, and then go toa different Mario song because
he's super into Mario Brothersright now.
So it's all in what your kidsare interested in.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Gotcha, and did they even?
Do you discuss this with themand they know that this is what
you're doing by playing thedifferent types of music or is
it something that we can just dous, knowing that it has
benefits for them?
Speaker 2 (05:26):
When kids are dysregulated, I have found that
using the least amount of wordspossible is the best.
So If you want to talk to themabout what you did after you do
it, I think that's a great idea.
Be like okay, the next timethis happens we're gonna turn on
some music, we're gonna turn onsome angry music and then we're
gonna go to happy music andwe're just gonna go on that
journey together.
(05:46):
But if they're angry and you'rewanting to do this, I want to
talk to them and be like okay,now I'm gonna turn on this music
and then we're gonna listen tothis music.
I would just do it, gotcha.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Okay, okay.
So let's back up just a littlebit too.
You said when they'redysregulated, what does that
mean?
Speaker 2 (06:03):
so if you're overwhelmed, everyone gets
dysregulated, just emotionallydysregulated, where you just
can't think straight becauseJust everything is happening.
So so you might feeloverwhelmed just from the lights
being too bright or there'snoise going on, or your clothes
are itchy, or Just everything ishappening at the same time, and
that that's when you get reallydysregulated.
(06:24):
But, like for my kids, theymight get dysregulated because
they have to wear a long-sleeveshirt and so they're just angry,
and so then when one littlething happens that tips the
scale, and so then they have to,they get dysregulated.
You know their body isdysregulated.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
So it's not just a state of mind, it's an actual
physical thing as well, right?
Yeah, it could be yeah.
Experiencing it physically.
Yeah, and then like what areyour?
I know you have tips andstrategies for dealing with that
dysregulation, For both adultsand for kids.
So what are like?
What are some of your go-tosthat you share with people?
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Yeah, so if a kid is having a hard time processing an
emotion Before they get intothat dysregulated state, we
might talk about emotion.
So I use the spot books byDiane Albert and those are for
kids a little bit younger, but Ialso like they're for four to
eight year olds, but they can beused for older kids just to
(07:22):
illustrate the point.
And then we talk about whatanger might look like.
We go through the five senses,so what does it look like, what
does it feel like, what does itsound like, like all those
different things.
And then we write a song abouthow it looks, how it feels, how
it tastes all that differentstuff.
And then we might say whenwe're sad, well, sadness makes
(07:45):
me, no, what was I gonna say?
Oh sorry, like something makesme sad, so this makes me sad.
And then we talk about fourdifferent things that might make
you sad.
And then we'll talk about fourdifferent things that you can do
when you're feeling sad to getto where you want to be.
And we write that in a song.
And I usually do it onGarageBand, because the kids can
(08:06):
make up their own song reallyeasily using GarageBand and it
comes free on all Apple productsso you can use it and mess
around with it.
But that's what I do to helpkids process their emotions and
then when they are sad, we cango back to that song and be like
, okay, you said you wanted todo this, let's try this strategy
.
And that might be going for awalk or playing the piano or
(08:30):
doing anything that makes themhappy reading a book, being
alone.
Some people like to scream inthe pillows, like it's just all
different things.
That just to the specificperson, what they might want to
do.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Yeah, and how does this apply?
I know that you work, you setup a lot with kids with autism.
How does this apply toespecially a non-verbal or an
autistic child with limitedcommunications?
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Yeah.
So I think song and music cancome into play way more when
that happens because they're notable to express with words as
much as they can with music.
So I've had kids like play thepiano or play the guitar or just
play instruments.
Like I'll give them aninstrument and I'll say play how
you're feeling right now.
(09:18):
And just playing how they'refeeling can help them get that
out, so that they're expressingthemselves but they're not using
words to do it.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Oh, yeah, that makes sense and even if, I mean,
you're not just talking aboutpeople who are musically
inclined, right?
No, no, no.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Everybody.
Yeah, so there's actually astudy done.
This was interesting.
So they took a group ofnon-musicians and put them in a
stressful environment.
The stressful environment wasdoing a puzzle that had.
No, they couldn't put thepuzzle together.
None of the pieces fit together.
And they did that for an hour.
And then they took one groupand they let them just relax how
(09:54):
they wanted to, like read anewspaper, lay on the couch,
just whatever they wanted to do.
And then they took anothergroup and they were not
musicians and they just played akeyboard for an hour and that
was shown to reduce stress on aDNA level.
So six of the DNA markers forstress were reversed when the
(10:16):
people just did their normalrelaxation.
And then 18 of the stressmarkers were reversed for the
non-musicians who played music.
Oh wow, so you can get thebenefit of music, like, even if
you're not a musician, it doesnot matter.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
That's awesome, that is very cool, Because I can
imagine that being a stressfulenvironment if you don't know
how to play.
But that's so.
That's interesting that it'sthe reverse, yeah, yeah.
And what about, like, if we'rein a situation we wanna use
music to help our kidscommunicate with us, but we
don't have any instrumentsaround?
You know what did we do?
Maybe we're in the car, I meanobviously by the radio, but you
(10:51):
have a little control over theradio.
It's not even like being at homewhere I can say Alexa, play
this.
You know what do you do whenthere's, when you have no
options.
As far as that goes, I justsing.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
I would just recommend singing so you can
make up songs together.
You can also.
There's like mad libs for music, a fun game to play with your
kids.
You can do this seriously orjust having fun, where you just
take out different words in thesong and then they write the
words that they want in the songand then you can just sing it
(11:22):
that way.
Or you can take a song that youjust rewrite the whole song and
do it that way too.
But you can always just sing.
You always have your voice, oryou can hum or you can do
whatever that way.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Gotcha.
So what other things do youwant parents out there to know
about music therapy and how itcan be used in our daily lives?
Speaker 2 (11:44):
So I would just say using music, start small.
If you're not using music rightnow, just start small.
So in the morning, if you sayaffirmations, you can drum while
you're singing the affirmations.
So I don't have a drum rightnow, but just play on the drum
while you're singing it.
So, and then if you want tosing the affirmations, you can
(12:06):
say I am a peacemaker, like,just sing it and you'll get the
benefits.
And then there's differentthings you can do.
If you want to start playing onthe piano, then just start
small and just take one fingerand, you know, play each of the
keys with just one finger, andthen you might start one finger
(12:27):
on both hands and then any ofthe keys that you can reach with
one hand and then any of thekeys you can reach with two
hands.
And you can do this with yourkids.
If you just play the black keys, it creates a type of scale
that sounds good.
No matter what you play and nomatter what notes you play
together, it will sound good.
And so just start small.
(12:47):
And there's another thing thatyou can do.
It's called drum talk and youhave a conversation using drums.
Or if you don't have a drum,you can just do body percussion
and just play on your lap orplay up here.
I was in a band in eighth gradethat we just did body
percussion, and so if you don'thave any of the instruments, you
can just use body percussion.
But you have a conversationback and forth.
(13:09):
So if this is a time when youmight be feeling a little
overwhelmed and not being ableto express what you wanna
express vocally, you can expressit through drumming and then
you just go back and forth, justlike you're having a normal
conversation.
I did this with two kids whowere siblings and they did not
like each other and they were soangry they couldn't even talk
(13:32):
to each other.
And so I sat them down and wedid the drum talk and by the end
of it they had calmed down,they had, like, beaten out their
rage.
By the end of it they were ableto calm down enough that they
actually had a conversation andwere able to work things out.
So just that's a differentthing that you can do if you're
having a hard time.
Your teenager's really grumpyand you don't know what to do.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
So yeah, yeah, that's what I was gonna ask.
Next is how do we get ourteenagers, who are grumpy and
oftentimes reluctant, to dothings that are a little outside
of the box?
How do we get them to do it andis it worth is the payoff there
at the end, if it's afrustration to get them to do it
?
Speaker 2 (14:10):
I would say go at their pace and what they're
interested in.
So if your teenager isinterested in guitar, then learn
guitar and learn to play withthem, but give them their space.
If they want to just do italone like respect that and if
they don't want to engage in themusic stuff, I wouldn't force
it, but I would just invite themto do it with you.
(14:32):
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
So any other tips or words of advice that we can use,
like I said, for any age?
Range to help build thesecommunication skills, because I
know before we hit record, youand I were discussing how all
behavior is communication, right, so let's kind of talk about
that a little bit more and howwe can determine what our
children are trying to say whenthey're not able to verbalize it
(14:56):
.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Yeah.
So all behavior iscommunication.
Your child is not doingsomething just to do it.
There's reinforcement somewhere.
They're getting a payoffsomehow.
It's like how we go to our jobsand we might like our jobs, but
what's the root of why we go?
It's probably to get money, andso the kids, they all have
reinforcement for what they do.
(15:16):
So if they are just beingterrorizers and being naughty
and just not doing things thatthey're supposed to do, I would
look at that as a cry or an askfrom them for your attention and
for connection.
They want to feel connected toyou and that's why they're doing
all these things to get thenegative attention that you
might be giving them.
(15:36):
If they do something you'relike, oh, don't do that, that's
still negative attention, where,if they're doing something good
or positive and you really likewhat they're doing, they
over-like, overwhelm them withpositive attention.
And that's something that wecan do with music If you have
younger kids.
I just stress that with babies.
(15:58):
There's research that shows thatsinging to your children has a
lot of different benefits forthem and they attune to your
voice.
So it does not matter if youcan sing well, they don't care.
I would just invite you to singlullabies and sing other songs
to your young children and thenkeep singing as they grow up.
(16:19):
There are so many benefits tosinging and playing instruments
and drumming and it's not likethe normal, like, oh, you're
just going to be.
A lot of people are like, oh,you're better at math.
This took a tangent from yourfirst question.
I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
You're good, you're good.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Keep going with this, I like it.
So they, you know, like a lotof people are like oh, it gives
you discipline, it gives you,you know your good math or
whatever, because math is usedin music.
But also, you know, it improvesempathy and improves your
immune system and improves yoursocial skills Just a bunch of
different things that can happenwhen you use music, Even if
(16:57):
you're not good at music or Ithink everyone is musical.
They might not be like the bestsinger or the best piano player
or whatever, but everyone ismusical and even if you just
want to dance, there are so manybenefits to dancing.
It improves, like it canimprove grief.
So you're not, you're notfeeling grief as much, and just
(17:18):
psychological things, physicalthings, all the different things
can be improved by music.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
That's, and it not just playing music, but even
just listening to it, right,yeah, just get the benefit both
ways.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
There are definitely more benefits when you engage,
but there are benefits when youjust listen to music.
But if you're engaging in itand singing, playing, dancing,
whatever there are more benefits.
And there's even more benefitsif you do it in a group.
Okay, good to know.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
And I love that.
You said even you know sing toyour kids, even if you don't
think you're a good singer,because I know I am not a good
singer and so there's alwaysthat hesitation to sing in front
of people, but so that's reallyinteresting.
I'm glad you said that thebabies don't care.
Now my 14 year old is quick totell me that I'm not a good
singer, but my four year oldshirt certainly won't.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
The teenagers probably don't care.
I mean, the teenagers do care,babies definitely not like.
If they get to talking age andthey don't think you're a good
singer, they might tell you, butthey still enjoy it.
You know, like I've had kidswho will tell people and be like
I don't like the way you sing,but let's keep doing it, you
know.
So they just want to connectwith you and that, like singing,
(18:31):
is a great way to connect,especially with young kids.
And then when with teenagers.
I just have to tell you a funnystory.
My mom, my sisters are a lotyounger than I am, so they were
all teenagers when I was like 30.
And I was over at my parentshouse and my mom and my sisters
were arguing and then my momjust turned on music and just
started dancing and we justturned into a huge dance party
(18:55):
and everyone forgot what theywere arguing about and we all
started laughing and dancing andso that's something you can do,
a teenager, you know.
Just Just dance or just turn onmusic that they like or
whatever.
But yeah, so that was apositive thing that she did.
That day.
She was like I'm done with this, we're just gonna dance, yes no
, I can attest to that too.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
That has been my mantra for the past few years is
, when things, when people startgetting grouchy, I'm gonna turn
on music that I like and itmakes me happy, you know, when
it changes my perspective onthings and makes it easier for
me to handle with sarcasticcomments or anything like that
you know from the kids.
But but what you said, therewas something key that I need to
(19:35):
remember turn on music thatthey like to, because you know,
obviously we want to listen tomusic we like, but, yeah, if we
want that same benefit for them,it has to be something that
they're enjoying to.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
I think you also brought up a good point that if
you're dysregulated you can'thelp your dysregulated child.
So if you need to get regulated, music is a great way to do
that, like we talked about inthe beginning, and just get
yourself regulated, take a fewminutes and then you can go talk
to your child or do an activitywith them.
But you have to be regulatedbefore you can expect them to be
(20:06):
regulated to absolutely Well,samantha.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
This is really helpful, and you have obviously
social media channels websiteprogram.
Tell us a little bit more aboutthat, if anybody's interested
in learning more about usingmusic therapy or even
potentially working with you.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Yeah, so I have a podcast where I talk more about
this stuff.
It's every brain is different,and you can find us on instagram
at every brain is different.
And then you can find Boisemusic therapy company.
We're on instagram at Boisemusic therapy and then our
website is Boise music therapycompany dot com.
If you go to our website, youcan download a free PDF that has
(20:46):
three ways that you can createa greater connection with your
child Perfect and that is whatwe're all about.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
So I love it and even though, like, I don't feel like
I am necessarily musicallyinclined, I did play the piano
growing up as a kid, but I thinkI just did what I had to do to
get by and I didn't really comenatural to me, but still it,
even though I don't know enoughabout me, is going to much about
it and don't play anyinstruments and don't sing, I
can appreciate it and how itdoes change our moods and
(21:13):
ultimately, our behaviors.
So I think this is an importantthing to keep in mind as we go
day to day, because it's notmuch easier than saying Alexa,
turn on my favorite song, youknow yeah, I do that every day.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Sometimes, when Alexa turns on my favorite music, I'm
like where did you get thismusic from?
So it's also a good way to findnew music, apparently, when you
don't have your favorite songs.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Oh, goodness well, thank you so much again.
We really appreciate your timeand your insight and, as always,
will link to everything in theshow notes.
Hey, thank, you.
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