February 24, 2025 • 28 mins
Unlock the secret to empowering your children with essential public speaking skills! Join us as we welcome Melissa Brander, founder of Pocket Homeschool, to discuss why instilling the art of effective communication in kids is crucial whether they're in public school or homeschooled. From banishing the fear of public speaking early on to building unwavering confidence, Melissa shares actionable strategies that can be seamlessly integrated into your daily routine. Learn how to transform any purposeful communication beyond casual conversation into a powerful tool for your child's growth.
Dive into engaging activities designed to teach kids the importance of giving clear instructions. We explore the fun yet enlightening exercise of having children instruct simple tasks like making a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Discover how specific and constructive feedback can significantly boost your child's speaking abilities and overall confidence.
Finally, we explore the exciting world of contests as a way to motivate and challenge young speakers. With Melissa's expert tips, you’ll learn how to find suitable contests, manage expectations, and prepare your child for the experience.
Connect with Melissa
Find Melissa on her website, Pocket Homeschool. You can also grab free Pocket Homeschool resources here. Pocket Homeschool is on Facebook and Instagram.
Get a free mini lesson plus 52 prompts so your kids can practice every week here!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to Speak Out.
Stand Out.
I'm Elizabeth Green, andtoday's guest is Melissa Brander
.
Melissa is the founder andowner of Pocket Homeschool,
where she helps familieshomeschool using her smart
resource technique.
That means things that aresimple to implement, meaningful
family experiences, academicallyoriented, reasonably priced and
tools for explorative learning.
(00:20):
She also lives in the Midwestwith her husband and her two
sons, who are homeschooled, andI'm sure you've learned a lot
about what you do and what youteach through experience, right,
Melissa?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Yes, for sure.
My kids have always beenhomeschooled, so it's been a
journey to watch them grow upand kind of become their own
persons, and that's been so muchfun and such a joy.
I'm glad that we did this, eventhough it isn't the right
choice for everybody.
It's been absolutely the rightchoice for us.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Yeah, and you know, just to preface too, if you're
listening and you're like, well,I don't homeschool my kids,
that's okay.
I don't either.
My kids are public school kids.
The conversations we have hereare applicable to any family at
any place, but there might besome things we point out
particularly that might apply tohomeschool or public school
kids.
But definitely a conversationworth hearing for everybody with
children and something that Ithink is such an important topic
(01:10):
.
Obviously, it's what mybusiness is built around, right,
but teaching public speakingskills to our kids and the
opportunities that sometimes wehave to seek out in order to do
this, whether they go to schoolor they're homeschooled.
So, melissa, I'm excited you'rehere today to talk about that,
because I think this is one ofthe key things that we need to
teach our kids, and whetherthey're in school or
(01:31):
homeschooled, there are notenough opportunities for them.
So let's dive in.
First of all, what is publicspeaking?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Yeah, it's hard to you know when we talk about
terms like that.
It's kind of one of those thingsthat everybody everybody has
heard the term public speakingand some people even have a
phobia right around publicspeaking.
But when I like to think aboutpublic speaking, I like to think
about it as you preparing orsometimes even impromptu
(02:03):
speaking in front of people thatyou may not normally speak in
or for like a specific purpose,because you know you might chat
to people and I might notconsider that public speaking.
But if you are focused on aspecific purpose, like, say,
you're demonstrating something,that can be a form of public
speaking.
Or you are in front of a groupeven maybe it's like just a
loose group but you're going tostand up there and you're going
(02:23):
to it can be a form of publicspeaking.
Or you are in front of a groupeven Maybe it's like just a
loose group but you're going tostand up there and you're going
to explain the rules of the gamethat you're playing.
That's a form of publicspeaking too.
So I think of it as when you'vemoved beyond a casual
conversation and you're speakingto other people and you have a
purpose in that speaking and itisn't just to have a
conversation.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Yeah, and you're absolutely right.
I mean, they say that publicspeaking is the number one fear
for most Americans, and I thinkit is such an important thing
that we present to our kidsopportunities to face it early
on, because fears just grow aswe get older if we don't conquer
them.
And I love how you broke thatdown too, because when we start
our classes, oftentimes we'llhave them do like a little mini
(03:06):
speech about who they are, theirfavorite things, right.
And then afterwards we're likeyou just did a speech that was
public speaking and then all ofa sudden they're like oh okay,
maybe it's not this horriblyscary thing that I need to be
afraid of.
And we so we do actuallyincorporate this into our lives
more than we probably realize,right.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yes, and I think sometimes if we make like a big
deal about it and be like, oh,now you're going to public speak
, it can become moreintimidating.
But if we look for thoseopportunities, like you said,
where we see it happening andthen point it out to our kids
afterwards, then they can havethis positive association with
it and realize that they do havethe skills, in fact, to do it
(03:47):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
So let's talk about ways that we can have our kids
practice public speaking in ahome, out in the community.
What are some opportunitiesthat you have found in your
search for giving your kids moreopportunities than this?
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Well, one one thing that we kind of enjoy sometimes
is entering contests, and theymay not even be like specific
public speech contests, but I'llgive an example of one that we
entered earlier this year.
It is called America 250.
And it's because of the 250thanniversary of the founding of
America's coming up and therewas a speech contest associated
(04:22):
with this.
Well, it wasn't all speech.
You could like do art orwhatever.
But one of my kids was like I'mgoing to do the video option
and I was like, okay, great, Isuggest that you write down
first what you are going to say,because you only have I think
the video limit was like twominutes.
I'm like you only have twominutes.
That's a really tight timeline.
(04:43):
If you are just going to likeget up there and start talking,
you may do something.
That's really long.
So I suggest you write it downand then that way I'm kind of
like coaching him on some stepsthat he can take to be able to
public speak with a time limit,which is a different skill than
just getting up there and sayingsomething when you have no time
(05:04):
limit and and you can just saywhatever for however long you
want.
Another way is for homeschoolparents, in particular if you're
involved in a homeschool co-op,especially as your kids get
older, to have them teach someclasses at the co-op and and
then that's a great opportunityfor them to public speak.
(05:26):
My son, my oldest son, and afriend.
They have started a club doingvarious service activities and
last over the winter we did onewhere they were like making toys
for dogs and cats at the HumaneSociety and we had them
beforehand.
Him and his friend tell alittle bit about when you do
(05:50):
kind things for other people oranimals, how it changes your
brain, and that was anopportunity for them to practice
their public speaking skillstoo.
And another way that we've usedreally successfully is I will
sometimes have my kids like makea PowerPoint presentation and
then maybe they're not going togive the PowerPoint presentation
(06:11):
.
Well, actually they don't usePowerPoint anymore, but in my
mind it's still PowerPoint,right, right, right.
And I will have them recordthemselves talking about the
PowerPoint so that, even if theydon't show it to anyone, they
have still practiced the skillof talking in front of, so that
even if they don't show it toanyone, they have still
practiced the skill of talkingin front of somebody.
And if you have a kid thatmight be more shy or reluctant
(06:32):
to talk in front of somebody.
Having them practice in thatway can be really good.
And another thing that wesometimes do is we will call up
relatives or friends and say,hey, I wrote this thing or I
created this thing.
Can I tell you about it?
And have that kind ofpresentation there.
(06:53):
It doesn't have to be to a lotof people to count as practice.
It's something, it's a scalableskill, right, if you can talk
to five people, you can scalethat skill to be able to talk to
50 people.
And so I think sometimes we getit in our heads that it has to
be a large group of peopleyou're talking to to count as a
(07:14):
public speaking skill.
But you can be practicing thoseskills even on a very small
scale because they're scalable.
It is maybe more intimidatingto talk to 50 people than five
people, but it's still the sameskill.
At the end of the day.
You are still having to give atalk that someone else
understands and that you'reclear and that you're
(07:36):
enunciating, and so it's stillthe same skills and it's
scalable very easily.
So I think that there's benefitin starting with small
practicing and then you caneasily go to lots of people more
.
So if you don't have theopportunity to go to lots of
people, you can start very small.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Yeah, I love that.
One of the things that wesuggest here is we have a
freebie that you can get on ourwebsite with 52 impromptu speech
topics, and there are thingslike would you rather live in a
spaceship or a submarine, youknow like just silly things that
kids love to think about andhave opinions and ideas on, and
we always encourage them to sitdown, let your child stand in
(08:19):
front of you and give them thatenvironment, as if they are
doing a speech instead of justhaving a conversation.
I had never thought toincorporate the idea of having
them call family or friends andsharing with them too.
I think that's so great because, even if they're not
face-to-face, they're talkingwith people that they're not
typically talking with you knowall throughout the day.
(08:39):
It's a little bit different whenit's our family.
That's a great idea.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Or sometimes I'll have them say, if someone isn't
available, I'll have them recordit, giving them upfront, and
then say, okay, we recorded this, this is a really cool.
We watch it together.
And then I say, who else do youthink might like to watch this?
And then I can.
I usually, if it's if it'sgoing to family members, I kind
of prep them and I say, um, canyou give them this specific
(09:02):
feedback on how, on how theywent instead?
Because sometimes when you'retalking to relatives, they just
want to tell them they did agreat job.
And that is great.
I love, I love that too.
But if you can say, could youspecifically, um, watch for
something, some skill or somepart of it and give some
feedback on that specifically?
I would say you know, this iswhat we're working on.
(09:23):
Can you watch for that and seeif you could give some specific
feedback about that?
That can be really helpful tothem to get some extra feedback
from somebody who is not intheir immediate family.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Yeah, that's a great tip.
And as hard as it is sometimesto hear constructive criticism,
that's the way we grow right?
And if you're a parentlistening to this and you're
like, okay, I'm going to thinkabout doing these things with my
kids, I would also suggest that, instead of just saying great
job, right, that's easy, likeyou just said, find a very
specific thing that they didreally well, compliment them on
(09:57):
that and then also give themtips to do something else really
well too, instead of that wasreally great, but you need to
slow down.
All they hear then is I need toslow down, I didn't do well,
but if you're like, you madeamazing eye contact.
I felt like you were talking tome the whole time.
That was so great.
I just had a little bit oftrouble keeping up because you
tend to talk fast, like me,right?
(10:18):
So that's very specificfeedback.
I think is is is key for thepositives and the ways that we
want them to grow.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Yes, for sure, and I think, like prepping someone
ahead of time what you'relooking for or what you worked
on like, say you, you did do aspeech and you worked on a
slowing down because your kidtalks really fast and you can
tell the person that you'resending it to or that they're
going to talk to, like they'vebeen working really hard on this
Can you take a look and see ifit feels like they have
(10:49):
accomplished it or if they feellike there's farther for them to
go?
Because sometimes, uh, if, ifyou're in that position where
you want them to get feedbackand you just ask for feedback,
people will give you kind ofvague feedback.
So if you give them likesomething specific to watch for,
then that can help them to giveyou feedback.
That's going to help your childand especially if it is
(11:10):
something like, say, you'reworking on something where
they're supposed to be tellingsomeone how to do directions,
you can ask them if they'reunderstandable.
I don't know if anyone has everdone this, but I can't take
credit for this idea because Ijust saw it somewhere.
Right, it's not my idea, but totake a really simple task and
(11:31):
have your kids give instructionsfor that really simple task
because it's a lot to thinkthrough and then you or someone
else following the instructionsand that will help them see the
parts that they missed, likedoing something really simple
that you might not think aboutit, like brush your teeth or
make a sandwich, or justsomething that is really basic
(11:52):
to help them think through howto give clear directions that
actually make sense.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
It is, and I knew exactly what you're talking
about.
Same.
I saw the same thing In ourclass.
We do the peanut butter andjelly speech.
They have to write a speech onhow to make a peanut butter and
jelly sandwich and, althoughwe're virtual, we can all see
each other and I make thesandwich as they're telling me
how to do it, exactly howthey're telling me to do it, and
it usually ends up with the jarof peanut butter and the jar of
(12:19):
jelly in between two slices ofbread, and they think it's
hysterical.
They love it, but they it issuch a clear message Like you
didn't, you didn't, you didn'ttell me.
I mean, I did exactly what youtold me to do, right, and it is
um.
It is such a great way for themto learn because they think
it's so funny, but it is alsoreally a lesson.
I love that idea and if you'relistening and you don't know
(12:39):
what we're talking about, googleit.
There are YouTube videos ontell your kid to tell you how to
make a peanut butter and jellysandwich and it's hysterical,
it's easy to do at home and it'sa great, great way to teach
them how to, like you said, giveclear instructions.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yes, Because it's easy to give instructions for
something that somebody elsealready knows how to do right,
but in life you're going toeventually run into a situation
where you have to giveinstructions, maybe to a large
group of people, where some knowwhat they're doing but some
really don't know what they'redoing.
And to be able to give thoseinstructions in a clear way is a
(13:12):
really valuable and usefulpublic speaking skill that I
think sometimes we kind offorget about because we tend to
think of it as like giving aspeech about a topic instead of
thinking about how, when you arelike instructing a lot, maybe
you're going to grow up and bein charge of, like, a river
cleanup at your river and youhave all these people who are
here to volunteer and you needto be the one that gives them
(13:34):
instructions.
That's the kind of publicspeaking too, and I don't know
that we always practice thatskill because we don't always
think about it as a publicspeaking skill.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Right, Absolutely no.
I'm totally there with you andI think that's fantastic.
It's such a great idea.
I wanted to circle back to oneof the first things you said was
encouraging your kids to entercontests.
I had a couple of questionshere.
One how do you find these?
Assuming that it's not a localthing, that you know a business
or something is putting on inyour community how do you find
(14:04):
these, and were your kids eagerto do it, or did you kind of
have to push them a little bitto participate?
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Uh, so usually my kids are eager to do it because
we talk about what the prize islike.
For this contest in particular,the prize is like trips, like
travel to various, like Americanhistorical places or like
national parks and stuff, and mykids were like totally game
because they want the prize,even though we do talk about the
fact that there are going to bea lot of kids entering and you
(14:34):
may not win a prize.
We also talk about the factthat you for sure will not win
if you do not enter Right and soand so, uh, that that is
usually enough to motivate mykids and get their excitement
going.
They start dreaming a littlebit about it.
Um, because that is the thingabout contests is there usually
is a prize, and as long as youkeep their expectations in check
(14:57):
and aren't like, oh, you'regoing to for sure win this
because you can't know that.
There's no way you can knowthis, it can be a great
opportunity to practice.
And what I say sometimes islike, especially if it's like an
annual contest or a contestthat's going to come around
again, I say like every time youenter, you'll learn something
and you'll grow your skills alittle bit more, and so maybe
(15:19):
you don't win this year when youenter, but if you enter again
next year you'll have a betteridea of what you're doing and
then maybe down the line in thefuture you will win.
And in terms of where to findthem, I think I don't have like
one centralized place I go to tofind them.
I just sort of keep my eyes andears open.
This one, I think I sawsomebody talking about it on an
(15:41):
Instagram story and even if Ican't do it right then I'm just
like write it down, make a notefor myself and come back to look
into it further to find out therules.
You've got to always check theeligibility requirements.
Sometimes they're only open topeople who live in a certain
area or they're only open tokids of a certain age range.
But there's, I mean, maybethere's a hub out there and
(16:02):
after this podcast somebody willwrite you and say, oh, there's
totally a hub where all of thesethings live.
But I don't know when.
I just kind of keep my eyes andears open for these things.
I think this is something that Ipersonally did as a teenager
and I actually did end upwinning one contest, because the
(16:23):
more local, the better, right.
And I say that becauseoftentimes local contests have a
smaller pool that they'redrawing from and so when they
draw from that smaller pool youkind of have better odds in some
way.
Like I want a speechcompetition for the VFW and it
(16:43):
was like every chapter, uh, wasgiving their own there.
They had their own like localwinners at the chapter and then
they sent those on to like thestate level and they sent those
onto the national level and Idid not win the state or the
national level, but I won thelocal level because there was a
much smaller number of kids thatentered.
And so if a big, hugecompetition feels like
(17:06):
completely unrealistic,sometimes entering at that local
level can feel more achievableto your kids.
So if they're like, ah, I can'tdo this because I'm never going
to win, then just go smaller.
And when I won that I got toactually.
Then I had to record my speechand put it on a CD back in the
(17:26):
day and then when I won I had toactually go and give my speech.
So there can be layers ofdifferent practice as you move
along in contests too.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Yes, absolutely.
I was thinking too when youwere talking about that, about
the, because I did competitivepublic speaking too and did a
lot of local contests.
That, you're right, were muchsmaller, but most of them were
in person, too, and so it isnice now that we're not limited
to just things that we can driveto that are within our
geographical area.
(17:57):
We do have so many moreopportunities online, but
keeping your eyes open for thosein your community.
There's often scholarship moneyout there and, like you said,
even if you don't win, winningis a bonus.
Right, that's a bonus.
Just doing it is such goodexperience and I afterwards,
even though I'd be so nervousgoing into it, would feel so
(18:19):
confident afterwards because Igot up there and did that, and
it's just that feeling that isso important for our kids to
have, right, and so we have toput them in these opportunities.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Yes, for sure.
And another tip about that is Isit down with my kids and we
look at the judging criteriatogether, because a lot of times
they'll break down and it'll belike 25% to this and 25% to
that, and so then, um, and I,sometimes it will be like I like
when they're preparing for acontest, depending on the rules
(18:50):
of the contest.
I am limited in what guidancethat I can give them, right, but
we can always sit down and looktogether at the things that the
judges are looking for and talkabout them and not do it for
them, but just show them like,instead of sending them into a
blind, help them feel like theyhave a good handle on what the
(19:12):
subject is about and what thecontest is about.
And even with other kinds ofpublic speaking, sitting down
and talking about it beforehand,talking about what it might be
like, what we're even down tobreaking down to like, okay,
you're going to do this, you aregoing to like stand over here
and you're going to, you know,talk for this amount of time and
(19:33):
it's going to be this amount ofpeople and just setting the
stage so their expectations arereally clear, so that they know
and understand what it lookslike can be another way to kind
of take away some of thatuncertainty about it.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Yeah, absolutely, cause we, we certainly fear the
unknown.
So you're right, just havingthat understanding of what to
expect going into it helps a lot.
So what do you say to theparent who's like my kid is
nowhere near ready to do acompetitive speech?
We're just starting to try tofigure out how to practice.
What are some activities andthings we could do, if this is a
(20:06):
really brand new concept to afamily?
Speaker 2 (20:10):
I would say start by reading aloud, like you don't
have to, like write anythingthat you have done yourself, you
know.
Just grab a book off the shelfand have them stand in front of
you and have them read aloud,and then that way they don't
have to necessarily think aboutthe content of what they are
creating themselves.
They can focus on speakingclearly and making eye contact
(20:33):
and other things like that.
And it can be a book thatthey're super familiar with,
that they've read a lot of times, so they feel confident about
the material in front of them.
And that can be a really goodway to practice if they're not
ready for writing their wholething yet, just having them read
and pretend like it issomething that they wrote, and
having them practice thoseskills without having to worry
(20:54):
about the content or having toworry about memorize or having
to worry about forgetting whatthey want to say, because it's
all on the page right there infront of them.
And if they already know it, sothey're familiar with it, so
they can feel confident thatthere's not going to be any
surprises where they're like, ohno, all of a sudden there's
this big word I don't know.
(21:14):
I think that can be a good wayto get started in a low-pressure
way, and if even that feels toointimidating, just have them
sit next to you and read it outloud to you and practice
speaking clearly, and then youcan move from there to the next
steps.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Yeah, I love that and I think too.
I tell people a lot of timestoo.
You can do little things too.
It doesn't have to be aprepared speech or even reading
out of a book.
It could just be have your kidtell you three things about
Minecraft, right, whatever?
it is that they're passionateabout, and have them call and
(21:51):
order pizza on pizza night, havethem order their food when
you're at a restaurant insteadof ordering for them.
And I'm guilty of this too.
As moms, we just tend to takeover right, and it's easier for
us just to spout things off, forus to make the phone call.
But even at my son, my 15 yearold, just got his learner's
permit and we went up to the DMVand I walked up and I said
(22:13):
here's what we're here for.
And the woman, she looked at myson and she said okay, now you
tell me what you're here for.
And I was like, ah yes, thatwas a perfect opportunity for
him in a unique situation forhim.
He wasn't used to theenvironment to speak to a
stranger.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
And those opportunities are all around us
If we have patience to let themdo it and sometimes another
thing is if other adults in yourlife know that you're trying to
work on this skill, like ifyou've talked to them about it,
sometimes they will presentopportunities.
For example, when my kids wereyounger, we attended an
(22:51):
in-person prayer gathering.
My kids were pretty young andmostly they like sat and read
and colored.
And then one day the leader ofthe group was like would it be
okay if you had my oldest at thetime, who was, I think, six or
seven maybe, if he every weekjust came and told us a couple
of things about a country andthen we would pray for that
(23:13):
country?
So we went home and he like wehad a big map and he would pick
different places and we wouldread books about it.
And then he would like we'dwork together to take little
notes about what he wanted tosay, and then he would say that
and it was only like five or sixpeople that he already knew.
So it wasn't a big deal to betalking in front of them, but it
(23:34):
gave him such good practice andsuch good confidence.
So sometimes it's as simple asletting the other people in your
life know that you want to workon this skill with your kids
and watch for them, and theymight have an idea that you
might.
I would have never thought ofthat, but she asked me and all I
had to do was say yes and thenwork at him with home to prepare
(23:57):
him, and so I think sometimeswe think public speaking is a
skill for older kids, but evenlittle kids can be practicing
this skill as well.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Absolutely and and you know and then pushing our
kids, whenever they're they'renot super excited, to do that
right, Because, like we talkedabout, it is a real fear that
many people have, and it doesstart at a young age.
I remember doing differentthings like that as well.
That would always make me sonervous, but my parents
encouraged me to do it and itultimately changed my life, and
(24:26):
that's what I always try toexplain to people too.
A lot of what we teach isdebate, and I always say you
know what?
Only a small fraction of ourdebaters are ever going to go on
to debate at the collegiatelevel or anything like that.
That's really not what we'rethere for.
We're there just to build thatconfidence in communication
because that is going to applyto every aspect of their life
going forward.
I think it is one of those.
(24:47):
It's looked at like as anextracurricular right, when it
should be a core subject, I feellike in teaching our children
how to communicate.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Yes, for sure, and it's just really wonderful, the
opportunities, that kind of risethat you might not even think
of as opportunities, but whenyou're keeping your eyes open
for them, when you are beingintentional about it, when
you're thinking about it andthinking about what are the
opportunities we can have forpractice.
It Like your story about beingat the DMV.
My kids are in the library.
(25:16):
We go to the library a lot.
Okay, we are library people andthey know a lot of people in
the library and I will.
Always they'll be like oh, Idon't know where this book is,
and even though I know thelibrary catalog inside and out
backwards and I could find itfor them, I always encourage
them go talk to the librariansand ask them, because that is a
way for them to build that skill, instead of me just being like,
(25:37):
oh yeah, I know where that is.
I can totally find that I amteaching them to use their
resources because I won't alwaysbe around and if they know how
to do it, then they'll be ableto do it even when they're older
and when they're adults as well.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Yeah, I love it, and that is sometimes out of our
instincts as moms.
Right, we want to fix things,we want to take care of things,
we want to do things for ourchildren, but making sure, like
you said, being intentional,that we're stepping back at
times when these are learningopportunities is so crucial.
Well, melissa, this has been areally helpful conversation and
you have lots of great resourcesfor homeschooling families, and
(26:12):
so tell us and we'll make surewe have the links to everything
in the show notes so it's easyfor you just to hop down and
find Melissa and more of whatshe offers.
But, melissa, tell us reallyquickly what people can find if
they're looking for someresources.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Yeah, I have.
There's a link that Elizabethis going to include to my
regular rotating freebie and inthere it's always something
different.
I change it monthly so you canhop onto that link and have a
fun surprise.
And then you'll be on mynewsletter too, which is called
Five for Friday.
Every Friday I send out fivethings you can use in your
homeschool.
I mostly keep it under 500words.
(26:46):
I think I've broken that twicein four years, so it's a quick
read.
There's going to be links andother things in there that you
can use in your homeschool.
And then, um, oh, I was like Isay oh, my membership.
I also have a membership calledthe smart homeschool society
and in there there are workshopsand text, support and
encouragement and it's just areally good place to get
(27:08):
connected as a homeschool mom,to learn and keep growing your
own learning so you can be alifelong learner, and that will
empower you to homeschool yourkids successfully.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Fantastic.
Well, we'll make sure all thoselinks are there, including your
socials and everything.
So if you want to connect withMelissa, just look in those show
notes and you'll be able to hopright over there.
So, melissa, thank you againfor taking your time today.
These were some fantastic,actionable tips.
I love it.
That's what I like and tell meexactly what to do so we can go
do it.
So this was a greatconversation.
Thank you so much for having me.
Welcome back to Speak Out.
Stand Out.
I'm Elizabeth Green, andtoday's guest is Melissa Brander
.
Melissa is the founder andowner of Pocket Homeschool,
where she helps familieshomeschool using her smart
resource technique.
That means things that aresimple to implement, meaningful
family experiences, academicallyoriented, reasonably priced and
tools for explorative learning.
(00:20):
She also lives in the Midwestwith her husband and her two
sons, who are homeschooled, andI'm sure you've learned a lot
about what you do and what youteach through experience, right,
Melissa?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Yes, for sure.
My kids have always beenhomeschooled, so it's been a
journey to watch them grow upand kind of become their own
persons, and that's been so muchfun and such a joy.
I'm glad that we did this, eventhough it isn't the right
choice for everybody.
It's been absolutely the rightchoice for us.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Yeah, and you know, just to preface too, if you're
listening and you're like, well,I don't homeschool my kids,
that's okay.
I don't either.
My kids are public school kids.
The conversations we have hereare applicable to any family at
any place, but there might besome things we point out
particularly that might apply tohomeschool or public school
kids.
But definitely a conversationworth hearing for everybody with
children and something that Ithink is such an important topic
(01:10):
.
Obviously, it's what mybusiness is built around, right,
but teaching public speakingskills to our kids and the
opportunities that sometimes wehave to seek out in order to do
this, whether they go to schoolor they're homeschooled.
So, melissa, I'm excited you'rehere today to talk about that,
because I think this is one ofthe key things that we need to
teach our kids, and whetherthey're in school or
(01:31):
homeschooled, there are notenough opportunities for them.
So let's dive in.
First of all, what is publicspeaking?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Yeah, it's hard to you know when we talk about
terms like that.
It's kind of one of those thingsthat everybody everybody has
heard the term public speakingand some people even have a
phobia right around publicspeaking.
But when I like to think aboutpublic speaking, I like to think
about it as you preparing orsometimes even impromptu
(02:03):
speaking in front of people thatyou may not normally speak in
or for like a specific purpose,because you know you might chat
to people and I might notconsider that public speaking.
But if you are focused on aspecific purpose, like, say,
you're demonstrating something,that can be a form of public
speaking.
Or you are in front of a groupeven maybe it's like just a
loose group but you're going tostand up there and you're going
(02:23):
to it can be a form of publicspeaking.
Or you are in front of a groupeven Maybe it's like just a
loose group but you're going tostand up there and you're going
to explain the rules of the gamethat you're playing.
That's a form of publicspeaking too.
So I think of it as when you'vemoved beyond a casual
conversation and you're speakingto other people and you have a
purpose in that speaking and itisn't just to have a
conversation.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Yeah, and you're absolutely right.
I mean, they say that publicspeaking is the number one fear
for most Americans, and I thinkit is such an important thing
that we present to our kidsopportunities to face it early
on, because fears just grow aswe get older if we don't conquer
them.
And I love how you broke thatdown too, because when we start
our classes, oftentimes we'llhave them do like a little mini
(03:06):
speech about who they are, theirfavorite things, right.
And then afterwards we're likeyou just did a speech that was
public speaking and then all ofa sudden they're like oh okay,
maybe it's not this horriblyscary thing that I need to be
afraid of.
And we so we do actuallyincorporate this into our lives
more than we probably realize,right.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yes, and I think sometimes if we make like a big
deal about it and be like, oh,now you're going to public speak
, it can become moreintimidating.
But if we look for thoseopportunities, like you said,
where we see it happening andthen point it out to our kids
afterwards, then they can havethis positive association with
it and realize that they do havethe skills, in fact, to do it
(03:47):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
So let's talk about ways that we can have our kids
practice public speaking in ahome, out in the community.
What are some opportunitiesthat you have found in your
search for giving your kids moreopportunities than this?
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Well, one one thing that we kind of enjoy sometimes
is entering contests, and theymay not even be like specific
public speech contests, but I'llgive an example of one that we
entered earlier this year.
It is called America 250.
And it's because of the 250thanniversary of the founding of
America's coming up and therewas a speech contest associated
(04:22):
with this.
Well, it wasn't all speech.
You could like do art orwhatever.
But one of my kids was like I'mgoing to do the video option
and I was like, okay, great, Isuggest that you write down
first what you are going to say,because you only have I think
the video limit was like twominutes.
I'm like you only have twominutes.
That's a really tight timeline.
(04:43):
If you are just going to likeget up there and start talking,
you may do something.
That's really long.
So I suggest you write it downand then that way I'm kind of
like coaching him on some stepsthat he can take to be able to
public speak with a time limit,which is a different skill than
just getting up there and sayingsomething when you have no time
(05:04):
limit and and you can just saywhatever for however long you
want.
Another way is for homeschoolparents, in particular if you're
involved in a homeschool co-op,especially as your kids get
older, to have them teach someclasses at the co-op and and
then that's a great opportunityfor them to public speak.
(05:26):
My son, my oldest son, and afriend.
They have started a club doingvarious service activities and
last over the winter we did onewhere they were like making toys
for dogs and cats at the HumaneSociety and we had them
beforehand.
Him and his friend tell alittle bit about when you do
(05:50):
kind things for other people oranimals, how it changes your
brain, and that was anopportunity for them to practice
their public speaking skillstoo.
And another way that we've usedreally successfully is I will
sometimes have my kids like makea PowerPoint presentation and
then maybe they're not going togive the PowerPoint presentation
(06:11):
.
Well, actually they don't usePowerPoint anymore, but in my
mind it's still PowerPoint,right, right, right.
And I will have them recordthemselves talking about the
PowerPoint so that, even if theydon't show it to anyone, they
have still practiced the skillof talking in front of, so that
even if they don't show it toanyone, they have still
practiced the skill of talkingin front of somebody.
And if you have a kid thatmight be more shy or reluctant
(06:32):
to talk in front of somebody.
Having them practice in thatway can be really good.
And another thing that wesometimes do is we will call up
relatives or friends and say,hey, I wrote this thing or I
created this thing.
Can I tell you about it?
And have that kind ofpresentation there.
(06:53):
It doesn't have to be to a lotof people to count as practice.
It's something, it's a scalableskill, right, if you can talk
to five people, you can scalethat skill to be able to talk to
50 people.
And so I think sometimes we getit in our heads that it has to
be a large group of peopleyou're talking to to count as a
(07:14):
public speaking skill.
But you can be practicing thoseskills even on a very small
scale because they're scalable.
It is maybe more intimidatingto talk to 50 people than five
people, but it's still the sameskill.
At the end of the day.
You are still having to give atalk that someone else
understands and that you'reclear and that you're
(07:36):
enunciating, and so it's stillthe same skills and it's
scalable very easily.
So I think that there's benefitin starting with small
practicing and then you caneasily go to lots of people more
.
So if you don't have theopportunity to go to lots of
people, you can start very small.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Yeah, I love that.
One of the things that wesuggest here is we have a
freebie that you can get on ourwebsite with 52 impromptu speech
topics, and there are thingslike would you rather live in a
spaceship or a submarine, youknow like just silly things that
kids love to think about andhave opinions and ideas on, and
we always encourage them to sitdown, let your child stand in
(08:19):
front of you and give them thatenvironment, as if they are
doing a speech instead of justhaving a conversation.
I had never thought toincorporate the idea of having
them call family or friends andsharing with them too.
I think that's so great because, even if they're not
face-to-face, they're talkingwith people that they're not
typically talking with you knowall throughout the day.
(08:39):
It's a little bit different whenit's our family.
That's a great idea.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Or sometimes I'll have them say, if someone isn't
available, I'll have them recordit, giving them upfront, and
then say, okay, we recorded this, this is a really cool.
We watch it together.
And then I say, who else do youthink might like to watch this?
And then I can.
I usually, if it's if it'sgoing to family members, I kind
of prep them and I say, um, canyou give them this specific
(09:02):
feedback on how, on how theywent instead?
Because sometimes when you'retalking to relatives, they just
want to tell them they did agreat job.
And that is great.
I love, I love that too.
But if you can say, could youspecifically, um, watch for
something, some skill or somepart of it and give some
feedback on that specifically?
I would say you know, this iswhat we're working on.
(09:23):
Can you watch for that and seeif you could give some specific
feedback about that?
That can be really helpful tothem to get some extra feedback
from somebody who is not intheir immediate family.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Yeah, that's a great tip.
And as hard as it is sometimesto hear constructive criticism,
that's the way we grow right?
And if you're a parentlistening to this and you're
like, okay, I'm going to thinkabout doing these things with my
kids, I would also suggest that, instead of just saying great
job, right, that's easy, likeyou just said, find a very
specific thing that they didreally well, compliment them on
(09:57):
that and then also give themtips to do something else really
well too, instead of that wasreally great, but you need to
slow down.
All they hear then is I need toslow down, I didn't do well,
but if you're like, you madeamazing eye contact.
I felt like you were talking tome the whole time.
That was so great.
I just had a little bit oftrouble keeping up because you
tend to talk fast, like me,right?
(10:18):
So that's very specificfeedback.
I think is is is key for thepositives and the ways that we
want them to grow.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Yes, for sure, and I think, like prepping someone
ahead of time what you'relooking for or what you worked
on like, say you, you did do aspeech and you worked on a
slowing down because your kidtalks really fast and you can
tell the person that you'resending it to or that they're
going to talk to, like they'vebeen working really hard on this
Can you take a look and see ifit feels like they have
(10:49):
accomplished it or if they feellike there's farther for them to
go?
Because sometimes, uh, if, ifyou're in that position where
you want them to get feedbackand you just ask for feedback,
people will give you kind ofvague feedback.
So if you give them likesomething specific to watch for,
then that can help them to giveyou feedback.
That's going to help your childand especially if it is
(11:10):
something like, say, you'reworking on something where
they're supposed to be tellingsomeone how to do directions,
you can ask them if they'reunderstandable.
I don't know if anyone has everdone this, but I can't take
credit for this idea because Ijust saw it somewhere.
Right, it's not my idea, but totake a really simple task and
(11:31):
have your kids give instructionsfor that really simple task
because it's a lot to thinkthrough and then you or someone
else following the instructionsand that will help them see the
parts that they missed, likedoing something really simple
that you might not think aboutit, like brush your teeth or
make a sandwich, or justsomething that is really basic
(11:52):
to help them think through howto give clear directions that
actually make sense.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
It is, and I knew exactly what you're talking
about.
Same.
I saw the same thing In ourclass.
We do the peanut butter andjelly speech.
They have to write a speech onhow to make a peanut butter and
jelly sandwich and, althoughwe're virtual, we can all see
each other and I make thesandwich as they're telling me
how to do it, exactly howthey're telling me to do it, and
it usually ends up with the jarof peanut butter and the jar of
(12:19):
jelly in between two slices ofbread, and they think it's
hysterical.
They love it, but they it issuch a clear message Like you
didn't, you didn't, you didn'ttell me.
I mean, I did exactly what youtold me to do, right, and it is
um.
It is such a great way for themto learn because they think
it's so funny, but it is alsoreally a lesson.
I love that idea and if you'relistening and you don't know
(12:39):
what we're talking about, googleit.
There are YouTube videos ontell your kid to tell you how to
make a peanut butter and jellysandwich and it's hysterical,
it's easy to do at home and it'sa great, great way to teach
them how to, like you said, giveclear instructions.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yes, Because it's easy to give instructions for
something that somebody elsealready knows how to do right,
but in life you're going toeventually run into a situation
where you have to giveinstructions, maybe to a large
group of people, where some knowwhat they're doing but some
really don't know what they'redoing.
And to be able to give thoseinstructions in a clear way is a
(13:12):
really valuable and usefulpublic speaking skill that I
think sometimes we kind offorget about because we tend to
think of it as like giving aspeech about a topic instead of
thinking about how, when you arelike instructing a lot, maybe
you're going to grow up and bein charge of, like, a river
cleanup at your river and youhave all these people who are
here to volunteer and you needto be the one that gives them
(13:34):
instructions.
That's the kind of publicspeaking too, and I don't know
that we always practice thatskill because we don't always
think about it as a publicspeaking skill.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Right, Absolutely no.
I'm totally there with you andI think that's fantastic.
It's such a great idea.
I wanted to circle back to oneof the first things you said was
encouraging your kids to entercontests.
I had a couple of questionshere.
One how do you find these?
Assuming that it's not a localthing, that you know a business
or something is putting on inyour community how do you find
(14:04):
these, and were your kids eagerto do it, or did you kind of
have to push them a little bitto participate?
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Uh, so usually my kids are eager to do it because
we talk about what the prize islike.
For this contest in particular,the prize is like trips, like
travel to various, like Americanhistorical places or like
national parks and stuff, and mykids were like totally game
because they want the prize,even though we do talk about the
fact that there are going to bea lot of kids entering and you
(14:34):
may not win a prize.
We also talk about the factthat you for sure will not win
if you do not enter Right and soand so, uh, that that is
usually enough to motivate mykids and get their excitement
going.
They start dreaming a littlebit about it.
Um, because that is the thingabout contests is there usually
is a prize, and as long as youkeep their expectations in check
(14:57):
and aren't like, oh, you'regoing to for sure win this
because you can't know that.
There's no way you can knowthis, it can be a great
opportunity to practice.
And what I say sometimes islike, especially if it's like an
annual contest or a contestthat's going to come around
again, I say like every time youenter, you'll learn something
and you'll grow your skills alittle bit more, and so maybe
(15:19):
you don't win this year when youenter, but if you enter again
next year you'll have a betteridea of what you're doing and
then maybe down the line in thefuture you will win.
And in terms of where to findthem, I think I don't have like
one centralized place I go to tofind them.
I just sort of keep my eyes andears open.
This one, I think I sawsomebody talking about it on an
(15:41):
Instagram story and even if Ican't do it right then I'm just
like write it down, make a notefor myself and come back to look
into it further to find out therules.
You've got to always check theeligibility requirements.
Sometimes they're only open topeople who live in a certain
area or they're only open tokids of a certain age range.
But there's, I mean, maybethere's a hub out there and
(16:02):
after this podcast somebody willwrite you and say, oh, there's
totally a hub where all of thesethings live.
But I don't know when.
I just kind of keep my eyes andears open for these things.
I think this is something that Ipersonally did as a teenager
and I actually did end upwinning one contest, because the
(16:23):
more local, the better, right.
And I say that becauseoftentimes local contests have a
smaller pool that they'redrawing from and so when they
draw from that smaller pool youkind of have better odds in some
way.
Like I want a speechcompetition for the VFW and it
(16:43):
was like every chapter, uh, wasgiving their own there.
They had their own like localwinners at the chapter and then
they sent those on to like thestate level and they sent those
onto the national level and Idid not win the state or the
national level, but I won thelocal level because there was a
much smaller number of kids thatentered.
And so if a big, hugecompetition feels like
(17:06):
completely unrealistic,sometimes entering at that local
level can feel more achievableto your kids.
So if they're like, ah, I can'tdo this because I'm never going
to win, then just go smaller.
And when I won that I got toactually.
Then I had to record my speechand put it on a CD back in the
(17:26):
day and then when I won I had toactually go and give my speech.
So there can be layers ofdifferent practice as you move
along in contests too.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Yes, absolutely.
I was thinking too when youwere talking about that, about
the, because I did competitivepublic speaking too and did a
lot of local contests.
That, you're right, were muchsmaller, but most of them were
in person, too, and so it isnice now that we're not limited
to just things that we can driveto that are within our
geographical area.
(17:57):
We do have so many moreopportunities online, but
keeping your eyes open for thosein your community.
There's often scholarship moneyout there and, like you said,
even if you don't win, winningis a bonus.
Right, that's a bonus.
Just doing it is such goodexperience and I afterwards,
even though I'd be so nervousgoing into it, would feel so
(18:19):
confident afterwards because Igot up there and did that, and
it's just that feeling that isso important for our kids to
have, right, and so we have toput them in these opportunities.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Yes, for sure.
And another tip about that is Isit down with my kids and we
look at the judging criteriatogether, because a lot of times
they'll break down and it'll belike 25% to this and 25% to
that, and so then, um, and I,sometimes it will be like I like
when they're preparing for acontest, depending on the rules
(18:50):
of the contest.
I am limited in what guidancethat I can give them, right, but
we can always sit down and looktogether at the things that the
judges are looking for and talkabout them and not do it for
them, but just show them like,instead of sending them into a
blind, help them feel like theyhave a good handle on what the
(19:12):
subject is about and what thecontest is about.
And even with other kinds ofpublic speaking, sitting down
and talking about it beforehand,talking about what it might be
like, what we're even down tobreaking down to like, okay,
you're going to do this, you aregoing to like stand over here
and you're going to, you know,talk for this amount of time and
(19:33):
it's going to be this amount ofpeople and just setting the
stage so their expectations arereally clear, so that they know
and understand what it lookslike can be another way to kind
of take away some of thatuncertainty about it.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Yeah, absolutely, cause we, we certainly fear the
unknown.
So you're right, just havingthat understanding of what to
expect going into it helps a lot.
So what do you say to theparent who's like my kid is
nowhere near ready to do acompetitive speech?
We're just starting to try tofigure out how to practice.
What are some activities andthings we could do, if this is a
(20:06):
really brand new concept to afamily?
Speaker 2 (20:10):
I would say start by reading aloud, like you don't
have to, like write anythingthat you have done yourself, you
know.
Just grab a book off the shelfand have them stand in front of
you and have them read aloud,and then that way they don't
have to necessarily think aboutthe content of what they are
creating themselves.
They can focus on speakingclearly and making eye contact
(20:33):
and other things like that.
And it can be a book thatthey're super familiar with,
that they've read a lot of times, so they feel confident about
the material in front of them.
And that can be a really goodway to practice if they're not
ready for writing their wholething yet, just having them read
and pretend like it issomething that they wrote, and
having them practice thoseskills without having to worry
(20:54):
about the content or having toworry about memorize or having
to worry about forgetting whatthey want to say, because it's
all on the page right there infront of them.
And if they already know it, sothey're familiar with it, so
they can feel confident thatthere's not going to be any
surprises where they're like, ohno, all of a sudden there's
this big word I don't know.
(21:14):
I think that can be a good wayto get started in a low-pressure
way, and if even that feels toointimidating, just have them
sit next to you and read it outloud to you and practice
speaking clearly, and then youcan move from there to the next
steps.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Yeah, I love that and I think too.
I tell people a lot of timestoo.
You can do little things too.
It doesn't have to be aprepared speech or even reading
out of a book.
It could just be have your kidtell you three things about
Minecraft, right, whatever?
it is that they're passionateabout, and have them call and
(21:51):
order pizza on pizza night, havethem order their food when
you're at a restaurant insteadof ordering for them.
And I'm guilty of this too.
As moms, we just tend to takeover right, and it's easier for
us just to spout things off, forus to make the phone call.
But even at my son, my 15 yearold, just got his learner's
permit and we went up to the DMVand I walked up and I said
(22:13):
here's what we're here for.
And the woman, she looked at myson and she said okay, now you
tell me what you're here for.
And I was like, ah yes, thatwas a perfect opportunity for
him in a unique situation forhim.
He wasn't used to theenvironment to speak to a
stranger.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
And those opportunities are all around us
If we have patience to let themdo it and sometimes another
thing is if other adults in yourlife know that you're trying to
work on this skill, like ifyou've talked to them about it,
sometimes they will presentopportunities.
For example, when my kids wereyounger, we attended an
(22:51):
in-person prayer gathering.
My kids were pretty young andmostly they like sat and read
and colored.
And then one day the leader ofthe group was like would it be
okay if you had my oldest at thetime, who was, I think, six or
seven maybe, if he every weekjust came and told us a couple
of things about a country andthen we would pray for that
(23:13):
country?
So we went home and he like wehad a big map and he would pick
different places and we wouldread books about it.
And then he would like we'dwork together to take little
notes about what he wanted tosay, and then he would say that
and it was only like five or sixpeople that he already knew.
So it wasn't a big deal to betalking in front of them, but it
(23:34):
gave him such good practice andsuch good confidence.
So sometimes it's as simple asletting the other people in your
life know that you want to workon this skill with your kids
and watch for them, and theymight have an idea that you
might.
I would have never thought ofthat, but she asked me and all I
had to do was say yes and thenwork at him with home to prepare
(23:57):
him, and so I think sometimeswe think public speaking is a
skill for older kids, but evenlittle kids can be practicing
this skill as well.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Absolutely and and you know and then pushing our
kids, whenever they're they'renot super excited, to do that
right, Because, like we talkedabout, it is a real fear that
many people have, and it doesstart at a young age.
I remember doing differentthings like that as well.
That would always make me sonervous, but my parents
encouraged me to do it and itultimately changed my life, and
(24:26):
that's what I always try toexplain to people too.
A lot of what we teach isdebate, and I always say you
know what?
Only a small fraction of ourdebaters are ever going to go on
to debate at the collegiatelevel or anything like that.
That's really not what we'rethere for.
We're there just to build thatconfidence in communication
because that is going to applyto every aspect of their life
going forward.
I think it is one of those.
(24:47):
It's looked at like as anextracurricular right, when it
should be a core subject, I feellike in teaching our children
how to communicate.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Yes, for sure, and it's just really wonderful, the
opportunities, that kind of risethat you might not even think
of as opportunities, but whenyou're keeping your eyes open
for them, when you are beingintentional about it, when
you're thinking about it andthinking about what are the
opportunities we can have forpractice.
It Like your story about beingat the DMV.
My kids are in the library.
(25:16):
We go to the library a lot.
Okay, we are library people andthey know a lot of people in
the library and I will.
Always they'll be like oh, Idon't know where this book is,
and even though I know thelibrary catalog inside and out
backwards and I could find itfor them, I always encourage
them go talk to the librariansand ask them, because that is a
way for them to build that skill, instead of me just being like,
(25:37):
oh yeah, I know where that is.
I can totally find that I amteaching them to use their
resources because I won't alwaysbe around and if they know how
to do it, then they'll be ableto do it even when they're older
and when they're adults as well.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Yeah, I love it, and that is sometimes out of our
instincts as moms.
Right, we want to fix things,we want to take care of things,
we want to do things for ourchildren, but making sure, like
you said, being intentional,that we're stepping back at
times when these are learningopportunities is so crucial.
Well, melissa, this has been areally helpful conversation and
you have lots of great resourcesfor homeschooling families, and
(26:12):
so tell us and we'll make surewe have the links to everything
in the show notes so it's easyfor you just to hop down and
find Melissa and more of whatshe offers.
But, melissa, tell us reallyquickly what people can find if
they're looking for someresources.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Yeah, I have.
There's a link that Elizabethis going to include to my
regular rotating freebie and inthere it's always something
different.
I change it monthly so you canhop onto that link and have a
fun surprise.
And then you'll be on mynewsletter too, which is called
Five for Friday.
Every Friday I send out fivethings you can use in your
homeschool.
I mostly keep it under 500words.
(26:46):
I think I've broken that twicein four years, so it's a quick
read.
There's going to be links andother things in there that you
can use in your homeschool.
And then, um, oh, I was like Isay oh, my membership.
I also have a membership calledthe smart homeschool society
and in there there are workshopsand text, support and
encouragement and it's just areally good place to get
(27:08):
connected as a homeschool mom,to learn and keep growing your
own learning so you can be alifelong learner, and that will
empower you to homeschool yourkids successfully.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Fantastic.
Well, we'll make sure all thoselinks are there, including your
socials and everything.
So if you want to connect withMelissa, just look in those show
notes and you'll be able to hopright over there.
So, melissa, thank you againfor taking your time today.
These were some fantastic,actionable tips.
I love it.
That's what I like and tell meexactly what to do so we can go
do it.
So this was a greatconversation.
Thank you so much for having me.
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