March 10, 2025 • 49 mins
Navigating a child's addiction can be one of the most challenging paths a parent can walk. This week, we're honored to have parent expert Ann Kaplan with us, who candidly shares her own experiences with her son's addiction and guides us on how to tackle substance abuse within our families.
Ann shares an honest perspective on interpreting signs of substance use in our children's lives, opening the lines of communication and setting boundaries.
And even when diving into such a difficult story, Ann finds ways to add in humor along the way. This episode is packed with practical advice, heartfelt stories, and resources to help families navigate the often-overwhelming world of addiction.
Want to connect with Ann? Find her here and even book a free discovery call.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome back to Speak Out.
Standout by GreenCommunications.
I'm Elizabeth Green, founder ofGreen Communications and
today's guest expert.
Back with us again is AnneKaplan, parent coach, and Anne
has shared a wealth of wisdomwith us in the past, and today
we're here to have a little bitmore of a serious conversation
that, ultimately, a lot ofparents and families are going
(00:23):
to be navigating, or alreadynavigating, so an important one
to have.
So, anne, first of all, thanksfor being here.
We're glad to have you again.
Oh yeah, thanks for having meback.
So, just to kind of dive rightin right, one of the things
we're talking about, or thefocus of our conversation today,
is addiction and, specifically,conversation surrounding that
right, because it's all abouthow we're communicating through
(00:45):
these things as they come up inour lives and in our families.
But first of all, anne, whydon't we just backtrack and give
us a little bit about you and,ultimately, how this
conversation today applies toyour life as well?
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Sure.
So, as you said already, I'm aparent coach.
I have four kids of my own andso always the Venn diagram of my
personal life and myprofessional life has a very
large overlap and aroundaddiction and substance abuse.
That is also true.
So I have four kiddos.
My oldest is 18.
And when he was 14, he startedreally going down a path of like
(01:25):
really poor mental health thateventually led to substance
abuse, that eventually led toaddiction and addiction
treatment and all of that stuff.
So simultaneously, while I'mcoaching and helping and
supporting families aroundteenage stuff including
substances and rules andboundaries and all of that stuff
I'm also living the dream slashnightmare of dealing with all
(01:49):
that stuff myself.
So, yeah, this is like anextremely professional and
personal topic for me for sure.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Well, that definitely makes you an expert on it,
though, right, because sometimesyou know we can speak about
things that we know about, buthave an experience, but it's
very different when it'spersonal to you too.
Yeah, absolutely All right.
Well, let's just dive in again.
I know this is not an easyconversation to have, and it's
not.
It's certainly something thatwe, as parents, hope that we
never have to deal with in ourfamilies, but you know that's
(02:20):
that we don't live in a perfectworld, right?
So many many of us will have todeal with the conversation of
addiction in our children.
So let's start with, like,backing up to.
What are the numbers Like arewe looking at?
Is it more common in kids today?
It seems like it is.
Is it just because of socialmedia and we hear more about it,
or are we really seeing anincrease in our kids trying more
(02:44):
things and ultimately becomingtruly addicted?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Right, I actually really love this question
because you bring up somethingthat's really important, I think
, in all parenting conversations, which is the exposure that we
have to worldwide stories aboutwhat's going on with kids and
parenting and all that stuff.
It is 10X 100X what weexperienced when we were growing
(03:08):
up.
So it's very easy tohyperbolaise and catastrophize
the stuff that we're beingexposed to all of the time on
social media and in the news andstuff like that.
So we always want to like kindof have that sort of objectivity
or just awareness in thebackground.
In this particular case, it istrue that more things are
(03:29):
happening with kids now thanwhen we were kids, and the real
reason why is because we'reseeing a real surge in mental
health issues right now, notnecessarily just because drugs
are more readily available orhave become normalized or any of
that stuff.
To me, that's a far morenuanced conversation that's
harder to really pin down andsay for sure.
(03:51):
This is actually 100% accurate.
But what we do know is accurateis that kids are experiencing a
lot more mental healthchallenges now than ever before
and because of that there's thisobvious sort of like subsequent
offshoot, which is substanceabuse is on the rise too,
(04:12):
because we know that addictionespecially and substance abuse
stem from a mental healthsituation.
Now, obviously kids experiment.
We experimented when we werekids.
Most likely everyone who'slistening to this has
experimented at some point intheir life.
So it's not to say like, oh, ifyou find a vape or a pipe or
(04:35):
something in your kid's backpack, they definitely have a mental
health problem.
That is not what I'm saying.
There's obviously a continuumof substance use that then can
kind of like segue into abuse,that can segue into addiction.
So it's not this like one sizefits all.
(04:56):
The second you know that yourkid has had a sip of beer at a
party, you're doomed, kind of tosay.
And I think that actually isreally important for us to keep
front and center in our minds asparents, because what happens
when our kids do any sort ofmisbehavior, but especially with
(05:16):
some of these really hot buttonthings like lying, substance
use, all of that stuff ourbrains go into like story caster
mode, like they could put JKRowling to shame.
We are like Pulitzer Prizewinning authors.
The second our kids do somethingthat's just a little bit
upsetting and triggering to us.
So it is very easy.
(05:38):
The second you like seesomething in your kid's backpack
or whatever to really be off tothe races about.
Like well, I'm seeing this.
What am I not seeing?
And what does it mean?
Why would they do this?
Is it because I didn't teachthem the dangers of substances?
And is it because of peerpressure?
Does somebody make them do this?
Like right we're.
All of a sudden it's like achoose your own adventure book
(05:58):
of your nightmares is happeninglike the second.
You just get that tiny littlepiece of information input.
So really, really important tolike keep our feet firmly on the
ground as much as we humanlypossibly can.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
That's a great great way to start it and something to
remind ourselves about.
So let's start with theconversation of talking to our
kids about this before it's anissue.
Yeah, what are your tips andwords of advice on how to have
these?
Speaker 2 (06:27):
conversations.
You guys are not going to likemy answer to this question
because if you listen to thefirst interview or the first
episode I was on, or if anyonelistens to my podcast or
whatever, you probably haveheard me say many times, talking
doesn't teach.
So we need to understand.
I mean, let's be realistic.
We're talking about substanceuse.
(06:47):
Essentially we're talking aboutpreteens and mostly teenagers.
So we need to be really reallyhonest with ourselves about
what's going on inside a teenagebrain.
When your kid starts using,it's not because nobody told
them that that was a baddecision.
It's not because your child isunaware that nicotine is
addictive or that you know usingpot can lead to X, y and Z, or
(07:11):
that marijuana is a depressant,or all the stuff that we learned
in the day or program Alreadyknows that.
It's not because of that thatyour kid is using, and so the
idea that we can forestall orcompletely sidestep their poor
decision to experiment or use orabuse by some amazing TED Talk
(07:36):
slash, afterschool special slashthe more you know thing is
going to.
That's not going to work.
So I'm really sorry to say thatNow what can work is very clear
boundaries.
So if you have established inyour family.
Here are the boundaries that wehave as a family around
(07:58):
substances.
Here are the consequencesaround that.
But I would even really cautionyou to not put too much
emphasis on the consequences,because that can really come off
as threatening your child,especially if they haven't even
done anything yet, but to reallyjust focus on, like, here's how
our family works.
You can do what you want withthat information.
The same as if I was talking toa nine year old or a six year
(08:22):
old and saying, hey, in thisfamily, treats are for kids who
protect their teeth Instead ofyou can't skip brushing your
teeth.
If you don't brush your teeth,I'm not giving you treats and
you have to brush your teeth.
And here's a talk about dentalhygiene.
And do you want gum disease andcavities and lollipop?
That doesn't work.
I guarantee there's someonelistening to this right now
(08:44):
who's already tried sugar.
Grammlings are in your mouthand back to your mouth.
Your kids still to skipbrushing your teeth because they
don't want to and unless theyknow that there.
This is the boundary and this isthe consequence.
It was ever thus and now, child, I have created this amazing,
(09:07):
beautiful container for you,inside of which you get to
decide what you will do withthat information and experience
the outcome of that decision.
Oh, you decided not to brushyour teeth, no problem, I
totally respect your choice.
Looks like you're not going tobe having dessert today, but you
know that was your call.
No worries, we do not need tohave like this whole, like power
(09:28):
struggle over tooth brushing.
The same is true aboutsubstances.
Hey, in this family you arewelcome to experience these
privileges.
As long as I'm not finding hairfinalia in your room, I don't
see that you're intoxicated.
You know that I don't finddrugs in our house, whatever,
(09:51):
and you can completely decide toset that boundary.
Now I'm giving you ahypothetical.
I am not and I do not wantanyone to take this to mean that
we all have to have the sameboundaries around substances.
That is not true.
The boundaries in our home,whatever they are and whatever
topic they're around, have tocome from our own alignment, our
(10:15):
own integrity, our own mentalhealth.
So there's a really bigquestion to ask yourself when
you're thinking about whatboundaries to set around
substances, which is why am Isetting this boundary?
It's very easy to say well, I'msetting it because it's not
healthy and I don't want my kidto be healthy and safe.
(10:38):
That's really great.
Why do you want your kid to behealthy and safe?
If you keep at yying yourself,for most of us we will get to a
place where it's because wecan't even handle the terror and
fear that we feel about theidea of our kids going down this
really scary path of drug use,possible addiction, all the
(11:01):
stuff that comes along with thatself harm, legal issues, all
the stuff.
It's scary.
So what's really happening?
We're parenting out of fear.
We control our children tolessen our discomfort, our fear,
our anxiety.
If that's your why, you have tobe brutally honest with
yourself, if that is even a partof your, why you're not done
(11:25):
with your work.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
What do you mean when you say that, that you're not
done with your work?
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Because your fear, your emotions, are your job.
So if the reason why you'retrying to lessen your emotions
and your fear sorry, if thereason why you're disciplining
your child is to manage youremotions, you're really going
down the co-dependency highwayfull steam ahead.
Your child's job in this worldis not to show up in ways that
(11:54):
don't upset you, and when you'reupset, that is your job.
Your upset is your job.
So how many times have we?
I literally almost did thismyself yesterday with my nine
year old, who was being a realtreat and I was not having a
great time with him, and Itotally found the words almost
(12:18):
I'm going to say almost, I'mvery proud of myself that they
didn't but almost slip out of mymouth, which was I was trying
for us to take space.
I was like I'm really upset, Ineed to take space from you.
You need to stay in your room,I'm going to go downstairs and
he wouldn't stay in his room andI literally almost said and
(12:39):
then I lost my temper because hekept following me around and I
didn't get the space that Ineeded to manage my emotions and
calm my nervous system down andI almost said to him I'm like
I'm yelling at you because youwouldn't give me space, Like,
especially essentially like thisis your fault Me being upset
with you right now.
You did this to yourself.
I obviously did not say that tomy child, but that's what my
(13:01):
brain was thinking.
If you had just stayed in yourroom, like I asked, and just
given me like even five flippinminutes to cool my jets, I would
not be yelling at you right now.
That is what I was thinking andthat that's like a tiny little
microcosm example of how we makeour feelings, our kids, job and
(13:25):
accidentally send them themessage over and over again.
The way you show up in theworld really needs to be
primarily focused on how itmakes everybody else feel,
Especially so if the reason whywe're setting boundaries around
substances is because we aretrying to make ourselves less
scared.
(13:45):
We are making our work, ourkids job, and that's not right.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
But there can be some overlap there, right?
Like I mean, obviously we'regoing to be afraid that, that's
you know.
We don't want to deal with that, but if we can be truly honest
and say that my number onereason for this is for their
benefit, right?
Speaker 2 (14:08):
There can be some overlap, right, that happens.
That happens after you've doneyour work.
So, if you notice and this istrue once again for every
parenting situation like what,what really is different about
substance use, especially oncebefore we've gotten into the
addiction world what really isdifferent about substance use
isn't substance use, it's ourstory about substance use.
(14:30):
Well, this is different becauseit's really really, really
scary versus teeth brushing like, oh well, what's the worst that
could happen?
You need a filling.
If you are able to look at thetriggering behaviors that our
kids possibly can be doing orare doing, like lying, stealing,
using substances, all of thatstuff If you're able to look at
(14:52):
those with the same objectivityas you're able to look at
throwing a ball in the house,missing a homework assignment,
not brushing your teeth they'rebad decisions, they're mistakes
that our kids are making, plainand simple.
If we were able to actuallylook at those things through
that same lens, we realized likethe same principles apply no
(15:14):
matter what.
The only thing that makes itdifferent is how hard it is to
apply those.
It's way easier to apply thoseprinciples to uh-oh, you threw a
ball in the house or, oops, youchose not to brush your teeth,
way easier to apply theprinciples of non-attachment,
managing my emotions, settingboundaries that are not about
taking care of my feelings andall of that stuff.
(15:35):
Way easier to apply that stuffto those low stakes things.
But that doesn't mean theprinciples don't change when it
gets harder.
It just means it's really hardto apply those principles.
So when you realize that you'resetting a goal or, sorry,
setting a boundary solely tomanage your own emotions around
this scary thing, job number oneis to take care of your
(15:57):
emotions.
Do your work, manage yournervous system, get therapy,
possibly, or work with a coachlike me.
Do meditation, mindfulness,work, journaling, educate
yourself, whatever you need todo to actually process and own
those feelings for yourself.
(16:18):
Because then, on the other sideof that, now you can look at
this situation that stillprobably does need boundaries
and discipline around withoutyour emotions and your negative,
fearful, dysregulated emotionsbeing the thing that dictates
how you handle that situation.
Now I can, I've done my work.
(16:39):
Now I can look at the situationand say, okay, all right, I
found a vape pen in my kid'sbackpack and this universal
experience Other of like afreshman or sophomore in high
school, or even an eighth grader, that's like the first thing
that I usually hear is I foundblah in my kid's backpack and
it's usually a vape pen.
(16:59):
So, okay, took care of myemotions, I'm not a spaz attack
anymore.
Now what am I gonna do aboutthe fact that I found this vape
pen in my kid's backpack?
My head's on straight, I canfigure this out and it's not an
either or thing.
It's not like.
Oh well, you're all stirred upabout this, so you shouldn't be
(17:20):
parenting at all.
You just need to go in thecorner and cry yourself to sleep
.
But also, you can't show up ina parenting role and discipline
with integrity unless you alsoare going in a corner and crying
yourself to sleep.
You need to deal with yourfeels.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Deal with your feels.
I like it.
I like it.
Deal with your feels.
Yeah, so, and I guess you knowin once, we take the emotion out
of it and the fear that weexperience.
If we go back to what you saidoriginally, we set clear
boundaries from the start thenit's not a matter of how do I
deal with this.
We've already established howthis is going to be dealt with,
(18:00):
right.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Now it's a matter of walking your top.
Okay, you said that if you knowthat he was gonna be using
drugs or if you found any ofthese X, y and Z things that he
was gonna lose his phone or helost access to the car or you
weren't going to, you know,drive him around because, like
some of us were dealing withthis stuff Actually a lot of us
(18:21):
are dealing with this stuffbefore our kids are even old
enough to drive.
So really we actually have somuch bargaining power, because
how often does a 14 or a 15 yearold ask you to drive them
somewhere or get them somethingor do something for them or pick
(18:41):
something up from the grocerystore for them or whatever?
All the time, probably likeevery three minutes or something
, all of those things you cansay.
You know, I'm sorry, but I justreally don't feel like I've got
the energy to do that for youright now You've really broken a
boundary.
You've crossed a boundary in ourfamily, yeah, oh no.
(19:06):
So yeah, then you obviously doneed to walk your talk.
But you know what we're talkingabout right now is a simple
doesn't seem simple, but arelatively simple scenario of
occasional substance use that'sagainst the rules of the house
and you know that you haveboundaries around that.
Some families don't and that'stotally fine.
(19:28):
Like I said, your boundary doesnot have to be your child can
never use substances and you canhave, you know, very, very
specific and personal individualrules and expectations and
values around that stuff.
So there's no right or wronganswer there.
But you know, then we start tosegue into like okay, but how
(19:48):
about abuse of substance, notjust use of substances, and how
do we know when that's happening?
What do we do about it and whenis it more than abuse?
But it's actually addiction?
And chances are, if you'reasking yourself that question,
I'm probably not the firstsource you're going to to find
(20:11):
out the answer to that.
Like most families, by the time, their kids are regularly using
it, starting to impact theirmental health, their performance
, their experience at school,like all of those things, we've
already started down the path ofgetting support and help for
our kids, for our family, all ofthat stuff.
(20:32):
So if I am the one and onlysource for information on this
topic that you're listening toright now, I encourage you to
really expand and cast a widernet.
I should not be the only person.
For sure, we want your kids tobe getting mental health care.
We want you to be gettingmental health care.
(20:54):
We want you to have a team ofsupport that's helping you
really keep a good head on yourshoulders and figuring out what
to do next.
But I do believe that parentcoaching is a huge part of that,
because addiction isn'tsomething that just happens out
of the blue, and what I mean bythat isn't that it couldn't
(21:17):
blindside you, because itabsolutely can and absolutely
did to me.
But what I mean when I say itdoesn't happen out of the blue
is that there's stuff happeningbehind the scenes, and addiction
is the outcropping.
It's sort of like the tip ofthe iceberg.
It's the symptom that we seefor the things that are
happening behind the scenes.
So the solution to addiction isnot sobriety.
(21:41):
So you, let's say it werepossible for you parenting a kid
who's grappling with addictionto keep them sober Like you, are
actually able to make sure theyhad no access to substances at
all, which is a really bighypothetical, because you can't
do that.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
But let's just say you could.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
That does not mean your child's not suffering with
addiction.
It just means that they'resober.
The opposite to addiction isconnection.
The approach to addictiontreatment that is most effective
and longest lasting has so muchmore to do with mental health,
(22:20):
relationships, healing and pastwounds than it does with
substances.
And if we don't address thosepieces of the puzzle, your child
might be sober, but the secondthey're not strapped to the
wagon.
They will immediately fall off.
When our son was in treatmentand it was looking like it was
(22:42):
time for him to reintegrate andcome back home and all of that
stuff my husband and I hadseveral conversations where I
literally said like our kid isnot on the wagon, he's strapped
to the wagon, and when he comeshome, that is really gonna be
the first time where he'schoosing sobriety versus it
being foisted upon him, and soit's a real make or break moment
(23:07):
for him.
Is that something he's going toactively continue to choose, or
the second, that he's not beingforced against his will to stay
sober, will he elect a differentpath?
And so we focus so much asparents on the sobriety thing.
We just don't want them to useanymore, and we can see so
clearly how they're using isexacerbating all of these other
(23:30):
problems in their lives.
So it seems really logical tous that if they just wouldn't
use, all of a sudden these otherproblems in their lives would
begin to improve as well.
And when we put our focus onthe sobriety piece, we're really
missing the most importantstuff.
It's a red herring thesubstance use.
(23:51):
And it's also an impossible gameof whack-a-mole.
You cannot put.
There are not enough fingers toput in all the holes of that
dam, and if you're in that placeof constantly trying to plug up
the holes, your kid probablyneeds something bigger than you
can give them at home.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
And so when you this is really eye-opening too,
because what you said just hitsthe nail on the head we just
don't want them to do it right.
But even if we take everysingle aspect or like
opportunity away from them, itcan't remain like that forever,
so that's not going to work Well.
So what do you suggest ifsomebody has very strong
(24:30):
feelings that their child isstruggling with addiction?
But the child, but they'venever broached the conversation.
Let's just start with that.
How do you broach thatconversation with a kid?
I think about, like when withadults right, you have
interventions, things like thatyou want them to choose to make
a change.
It's different when it's yourchild, because it's almost like
I'm gonna force them to make achange.
(24:51):
You can't do that with yourfriends in an intervention.
It's a totally differentmindset.
So how do you broach theconversation?
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Yeah.
So I once again get your ownhead on straight first.
So if you're starting to try tohave like this sort of epiphany
conversation with your child,of like I'm gonna just say this
in a way that's really gonna getthrough to you and you're gonna
get the memo, Before you try todo that, really get right with
(25:19):
yourself first and recognize allthe things that you just said,
Elizabeth.
Like you can't control them,you can't control whether
they're gonna choose to use ornot, and you also probably don't
know what's going on internallyfor them.
Most kids know that they havereally veered off course by the
(25:40):
time they're at this point thatwe're talking about right now.
Most kids have a lot of shameabout it.
They also probably have a lotof anger, and then we don't know
.
We also don't know the woundsthat they're dealing with
internally, and I think that'sone of the hardest things for
families when they do finallydecide to really look this thing
in the face and get the helpthat they need.
(26:01):
There's a lot of realizations,reveals.
I would say to parents, eventhe most tuned in parent, even
the parent who's been alongsidetheir child every step of the
way I mean you're talking to aparenting professional I am a
good parent Like if you saw mefly on the wall I do my absolute
utmost to practice what Ipreach.
(26:22):
I'm not perfect, but I alsoknow for a fact that perfection
is not necessary in terms ofbeing a good parent and giving
your kid all the protectivefactors they need.
It was not pleasant for me tofind out from my 15, 16 year old
son all of the feelings andstories that he had been telling
himself about me and our family, unbeknownst to me for 15 years
(26:47):
.
We don't know what's going oninside this kiddo, but we do
know that something isabsolutely going on inside them,
and so, before you have thatconversation, do your absolute
best to manage your own emotions, heal whatever you've got going
on and then really approachthat conversation with curiosity
(27:10):
and no agenda.
So if your point of yourconversation is to get some
specific outcome from your kiddo, you're lost before you even be
gone.
So one of the things I teach myclients right out of the gate
and this could be once again,we're talking about a really
heavy topic these principlesapply to everything from your
toddler to your teenager that wedo not try to solve discipline
(27:34):
problems with conversation.
It doesn't work.
Talking doesn't teach.
What teaches children ismodeling and experiences.
And we give kids experienceswhen we set and hold boundaries
and we model for them when wetake care of our own stuff with
integrity.
So that means that what is thepoint of our conversation, son,
(27:57):
if the point of the conversationisn't to discipline this child
or change their behavior, whatis the point?
The point is to connect withthem, which, remember, is the
opposite of addiction, is theantidote to addiction is
connection.
If you come into thatconversation guns blazing,
saying listen, this can't go onanymore, you cannot do this,
don't you see all these things?
And you're probably high rightnow while we're talking, you
(28:21):
might as well just not have saidanything, but coming into a
conversation just saying, hey, Inoticed that this is going on
with you and I'm just reallycurious, what's your take on it?
And you can hear you can learna lot If you're wondering if
your child's struggling withaddiction.
You can learn a lot fromlistening to their answer to
(28:42):
that question.
But some kids will say, like,I'm just really doing bad.
I feel these really intenseemotions.
I know that this isn't right.
I want to stop, I need help,blah, blah, blah, fabulous.
Some kids will be like my takeon it is everything's hunky-dory
and if you would just get the Fout of my life, everything
(29:02):
would be great.
I had a conversation with my sonwho was very 100% serious and
convinced that this was accurate.
The only reason why I'mdepressed is because you won't
let me smoke weed.
If you would let me smoke weed,I would just feel happy because
you wouldn't be telling me Ican't do the thing I want to do.
My depression is because youwon't let me smoke weed.
(29:24):
And that was true to him.
That was his truth, 100%.
And even in that conversation Iwas like well, it's really
interesting that you think thatbecause, well, first of all,
marijuana is a depressant and,second of all, you have
depression and you are onmedication to treat depression.
So I find it interesting thatyou don't believe that taking a
(29:48):
depressant while you're onanti-depressants would affect
the chemical situation going onin your body and maybe impact
the ability of thoseanti-depressants to help you
with your depression.
This is when I was not doingall the stuff that I'm trying to
tell everybody else.
I was absolutely trying toconvince Elijah to stop using
(30:09):
weed in that conversation, and Iwill give you one guess as to
whether or not that worked.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
So what did work?
What boundaries?
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries.
And if you so I reallyencourage every person on here.
If you think, even if you'rewonder if your child is
struggling with addiction, evenif you just found a vape pen and
you cannot stop fretting aboutit and you know that you're like
off to the races, and eventhough everything on this
podcast makes sense to you, youstill can't really make yourself
(30:42):
calm down.
Go to an Al-Anon or a Nar-Anonmeeting.
You can find them everywhereall day long, like I promise you
, wherever you are.
There are like five meetingshappening within the next three
hours.
Go to a meeting, because one ofthe most important things that
you will learn anytime we're ina relationship with somebody
(31:03):
who's struggling with substances, is that the one and only path
to freedom for both of you isboundaries.
So you can have a tuned inconversation with your child
where you say, hey, this is whatI noticed, what's your take on
it?
Validate there most.
This is the one-two punch ofcommunication, especially with
(31:26):
teenagers validation plusopen-ended, empowering question.
So I think things are great.
Mom, I don't see what yourproblem is.
You're overreacting.
Everybody smokes weed.
Get over it.
Validate that which will behard, and remember validation is
not the same as agreeing.
I'm not saying you agree withyour child, say wow, well I can
(31:49):
see why you'd still be usingdrugs.
If you feel like I'moverreacting, that makes perfect
sense.
Or no wonder you're so angry atme.
Every time I wanna talk to youabout weed, you think I'm
overreacting and making a bigdeal out of nothing.
That makes perfect senseValidate, validate, validate and
then ask a follow-up question.
That's not like.
Well, don't you think you'remaking a big mistake?
(32:11):
That is not an open-ended,empowering question.
We want you to be asking aquestion that's like why do you
suppose you do that?
Like, what do you like about it?
What made you try it in thefirst place?
I'm so curious how is itaffecting you at school?
Maybe you don't think it'saffecting you at all.
(32:33):
Like all of these questionsthat are just about encouraging
our kids to reflect and becomeintrospective and consider these
things for themselves, they arenot going to come to the
conclusion you want them to, or,if they do, it will take them
way longer than you want it totake.
But the point isn't that you'rechanging their trajectory.
The point in the conversationis that you're connecting.
(32:55):
Then you have the boundaries.
You can say well, I hear whatyou're saying.
You do not want to stop.
It feels really good and greatto you.
You're the boss of your bodyand I can't control your body
and it'll be stupid for me totry and also hypocritical, at
least in our family, because wespent like 15 years teaching our
children you're the boss ofyour body.
Now let me tell you all thethings you're not allowed to do
(33:17):
with your body.
It just wasn't right for us.
But you can say, just so youare aware these privileges are
available to people who areclean, or we do not approve of
this, or whatever.
And here is the boundary.
So one of my now it's funny nowwhen I look back on it one of
(33:43):
my funniest boundary settingconversations with Elijah was
when I was like you cannot behigh in this house.
You cannot have weed in yourroom, you cannot have
paraphernalia in your room, youmay not use drugs in our house.
I never said to him you can'tuse drugs, like literally.
I didn't say this to him, butliterally he could have taken
what I had said and made it meanoh sweet, so I can just get
(34:06):
high in the alley, or I'll justsmoke in the garage.
Like obviously I did not wanthim to come away with that
conclusion that literally fitwith the boundary that I was
setting.
Technically he would not acceptit.
He thought I was being a crazyperson for telling him that he
couldn't get high in his bedroom.
Like he really felt like it washis God given right to just
(34:28):
smoke weed in his room and whatwas my problem with that?
But the point is I was able toset that boundary and say you
know what?
You don't have to agree and alot of times when we're having
these boundary setting moments,it's we need to agree, to
disagree.
You totally have every right inthe world to think that the
boundary I'm setting isridiculous.
(34:49):
You have every right todisagree with me.
You have every right to violatethe boundary that I'm setting.
You are in charge of whetheryou choose to follow or break or
cross a boundary.
You absolutely get to decidethat and this is the boundary
and whatever you choose, I'llrespect your choice.
Here's how I'm gonna take careof myself around this boundary.
(35:13):
So now with Elijah, we setboundaries.
He could not follow theboundaries and, luckily for us,
we had a lot of information andknowledge and experience and
training on our side that helpedus be able to see and
(35:33):
understand that when Elijahcouldn't follow a boundary, it
was really because he trulycould not.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Once you're in the throes of addiction.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
No boundary can stop you because your addiction will
win every time.
So we really made a consciousdecision that we set up the
container for Elijah and we knewthat if he couldn't stay within
that container it was trulybecause, not because he didn't
want to or not even because hedidn't try, but because he truly
(36:02):
could not, and that was a signfor us that he needed something
more.
So within this container, lotsof boundaries about hey, if you
miss curfew, that's how manyminutes your curfew is advanced
the next day.
So if your curfew is nine andyou get home at 9.15, well,
tomorrow your curfew is 8.45.
(36:22):
And if you lie, here's what wedo about it and all those little
boundaries and things.
But ultimately we also had avery sort of bigger boundary,
which was three strikes withsubstances, and after that we
know that you need somethingbigger than what we can provide
(36:44):
you at home.
So whether it's findingparaphernalia, finding
substances, you failing a drugtest or us just realizing and
observing you to be intoxicated,those will all count as strikes
.
And if you have a third strike,then we know what we're doing
(37:04):
at home isn't enough for you toneed something bigger than that.
And that is what happened.
Elijah had a third strike andso he had to go and be in.
We did wilderness therapy forthree months and then after that
he had residential treatmentand it saved his life 100% and
it totally saved our family,because he definitely needed
(37:29):
more than what we could give himat home.
It wasn't a punishment, itwasn't your bad so you can't
live with us anymore or we don'tlike you, or it wasn't anything
like that.
It was literally just the sameas if he had gotten diagnosed
with cancer and he neededradiation and chemotherapy.
Like well, I don't have that atmy house, so we're going to
have to go to the hospital togive that to you.
It's not because you're bad,it's not because I'm punishing
(37:51):
you.
It's because you have asickness that I can't treat in
home.
It needs to be somewhere elseand addiction truly is a
sickness.
So when we say things like youknow, elizabeth, you've said a
couple times and I think it's sotelling and it's so common and
so normal Like well, how can weset this stuff up so it doesn't,
so we just don't need this andit never can happen.
(38:14):
You can't, and if this is likewhat's in your child's future,
the best thing you can do is towalk alongside him or her with
integrity, with boundaries, withyou taking care of yourself,
because they have a long road tohoe and they will do it so much
(38:34):
better when they have thebuy-in and participation and
true health mental health oftheir parents with them along
that path.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Yeah, Wow, I think I mean such a good conversation
and I think it's interestingthat we've had a heavy
conversation and still laughedalong the way.
So one of the things I loveabout talking to you but so many
good things to pull from this Ilove too.
When you said validating is notagreeing with, yeah, that was
something I made a note of too,because I think those are just
(39:08):
all really really great pointsthat we can use.
One last question I know we'reshort on time here, but one last
question Back to kind of thecommunication side of things For
the kids, let's say, thesiblings that are seeing this,
and they know what's going on tosome extent, right.
To some extent, especially inyour situation.
Right, your other children knewthat Elijah wasn't living with
(39:31):
you anymore for a short periodof time, right?
What do we?
Do you have any words of wisdomor advice to talk about these
things with the kids who areimpacted?
Speaker 2 (39:41):
Yeah.
So this is where I think theway that I work with parents is
so important, which is to saythat I use a relationship based
approach to parenting, whetherwe're talking about the
relationship with one betweenone parent and the child and
then the second parent and thechild, which helps so much with
parents not feeling like theyneed to be on the same page and
(40:04):
control each other and stufflike that, so you can get to
create your own relationshipwith your kiddo.
And that also applies betweensiblings.
Your siblings, your kids, eachhave a unique, sacred, singular
relationship between them andtheir sibling and that is
something that you canfacilitate healing around, but
(40:27):
you cannot control it or manageit or fix it or heal it or any
of that stuff that has to comefrom those two siblings.
So when your child let's sayyou've got a sibling who's
either really afraid because ofwhat they've seen their sibling
do, or really sad, or they aremad at you because you sent
their sibling away, or all ofthose things, once again same
(40:51):
stuff.
Those, remember, conversationsare not about changing or fixing
anything.
They're just about connection.
Have that connectedconversation with your kiddo,
validate what they're feelingLike.
It makes perfect sense thatyou're angry with me, of course.
You woke up and your sibling isgone, like who wouldn't be mad.
I can't blame you at all forthinking that, right, and you
(41:16):
know why do you think that wehad to do this?
Or why do you think it might bea good thing?
Right, all of that stuff has tobe led by your kiddo, so you
can't say why do you think itmight be a good thing?
If they're like this is aterrible thing.
Well, but what if it was adifferent way?
That I would rather you see it.
But you know, if they're saying, like well, I feel kind of
(41:43):
guilty.
Okay, what do you feel guiltyabout?
Well, I feel kind of guiltybecause I'm a little bit
relieved that they're gone.
Oh yeah, that makes total sense.
I get that.
You know what I actually feelthat way too a little bit.
Like I feel really guilty abouthow calm and happy I feel right
now.
Whoa, now we're both having thesame experience, you know, and
(42:03):
that's when you can say, like so, maybe there's actually part of
this that's good for us, eventhough it's really sad that they
had to go away.
What might that good stuff be?
You know that kind of thing.
So, but remember that it's notabout them.
Well, first of all, theseconversations are never one and
done.
It's always just likeinteresting.
I'll let that marinate for youand maybe tomorrow you'll have
(42:24):
made ever different conversation, or you know, my favorite thing
that I ever hear out of my kidsmouths is I was thinking about
that thing you said the otherday.
I'm like oh yes.
You know, I had a conversationwith one of my other kids a
couple months ago where we weretalking about like body
(42:46):
Positivity and obesity.
I don't know how we even got onthat topic and I was like you
know, I think Sounds like fromsome of the stuff you're saying
that you might really feel alittle bit judgmental of people
who are overweight and and he'slike whatever.
And he left and like two hourslater he came back to me.
Is like I've been thinkingabout what you said and I think
I do judge people who areoverweight and I'm like, wow,
(43:07):
cool, I think you do too.
Why do you think you do that?
And it's really really coolconversation comes out of it.
So this your kid is gonna begoing on their journey, just
like you are, of grappling withbeing in a relationship with an
addict and it is Nothing thatanybody wants, of course.
(43:29):
Like it still feels like nailson a chalkboard sometimes when I
say like my son is an addict,or I'm in a relationship with an
addict, or you know we haveaddiction in our family.
It's doesn't feel Realsometimes, like that's not the
story I told myself about myfamily back when I was like
pregnant and all starry-eyedabout Becoming a mother right.
(43:52):
Yeah but always like we have ourwork to do, parallel alongside
our kids, while they are Gettingtreatment for addiction or
working on addiction, which isto realize like, well, what,
what's my unfinished business sothat I can actually show up?
And most parents, at least partof our unfinished business is
blaming ourselves like whatcould I have done differently,
(44:14):
so this didn't ever happen,right?
Speaker 1 (44:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
I must have screwed up big time for my kid to be
doing doing this poorly, and youknow.
What you're really doing isjust make taking this kid's
story and making it yours, whichisn't true, and instead Knowing
that you did the best that youcould.
You still have lots to learnand grow, just like every human,
(44:37):
and Whatever your kid comes,learns and discovers that they
need to help them along theirpath, you get to rise to that
occasion, but definitely whatthey don't need is for you to
like self-flagellate the entiretime they're in treatment.
Yeah, because then, like yourfamily therapy sessions, just
look like mom and dad, likebeeping and rending their
(44:58):
garments, and you know that'snot helpful.
You know, imagine if you were ina like in a friendship, and
your child and your friend didsomething that hurt you and you
told them that it hurt you, andinstead of them saying like, oh
my gosh, I'm so sorry, I had noidea, how can I make it right?
What can I do to support younow?
(45:19):
Instead they just spent therest of your like coffee date
crying and talking about a pieceof garbage they were.
Would that actually help takecare of your hurt feelings or
help you move on from that?
Speaker 1 (45:30):
event.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
No, no.
That's not what we need frompeople.
Our kids do not need us to like, feel like garbage.
Tell them we're garbage, treatourselves like garbage, like
that's.
That's not useful to anybodyright right.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
Well, I think you know, one of the things that I
take away to from conversationswith you is our focus is always
how can we communicate with ourkids about this?
But when I talked to you a lotof times it comes back to how
can we communicate withourselves about this?
Yeah, and that is that's.
That's really, you know, animportant, a hugely important
piece of it, right, absolutelyWell, and we really really
(46:06):
appreciate you being vulnerableand sharing such.
You know such a story and, likeyou said, nobody wants to Be in
that situation and talkingabout it with a bunch of
strangers.
You know, it's not alwayssomething we want to do, but I
am positive that your storyhelps other people and, if
anybody is whether it'saddiction or, like we said
earlier, getting your kids tobrush your teeth, whatever if
they feel like they'restruggling and really would like
(46:27):
to connect with you more,what's the best way for them to
get in touch with you?
Speaker 2 (46:31):
well, the best way to find out all the ways is to go
to my website, which is andKaplan parent coach, comm, and
If you go to that website you'regonna see all this cool stuff.
You can get in touch with me inso many ways.
You can just literally contactme from my website.
You can also get my free guide,getting kids to listen the
(46:51):
first time, which, after thispodcast, I bet you know that
it's like a trick and once youactually open the workbook
you'll realize that it's notabout getting kids to do
anything, but it really helpskind of teach you the
fundamental principles that Iuse to teach my clients
discipline strategies but applyto this very universal situation
(47:12):
we find ourselves in, which isrepeating ourselves constantly
and no one's listening to us andall that stuff.
So, getting kids to listen thefirst time, you can find that on
my website.
You can also just find there'sa bit lily link for it bitly
slash kids who listen, andYou'll be able to find the
podcast there.
But the coolest thing that youcould find on my website is a
link to set up a consultationwith me, which is totally free
(47:34):
and will blow your mind whetheror not you decide to continue
working with me after that onebeautiful hour of connection.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
Well, I have appreciated our hour of
connection here and I reallyencourage everybody to go check
out her website, get on themailing list.
The emails are fantastic, sorelatable.
If you're anywhere in thethroes of parenting, it is
definitely great informationdelivered right here inbox every
week.
So we'll make sure we link toall of that, too, in the show
notes and we really againAppreciate all your time and
(48:05):
your awesome insight.
Thank you for being here, ofcourse.
Thanks, elizabeth.
Welcome back to Speak Out.
Standout by GreenCommunications.
I'm Elizabeth Green, founder ofGreen Communications and
today's guest expert.
Back with us again is AnneKaplan, parent coach, and Anne
has shared a wealth of wisdomwith us in the past, and today
we're here to have a little bitmore of a serious conversation
that, ultimately, a lot ofparents and families are going
(00:23):
to be navigating, or alreadynavigating, so an important one
to have.
So, anne, first of all, thanksfor being here.
We're glad to have you again.
Oh yeah, thanks for having meback.
So, just to kind of dive rightin right, one of the things
we're talking about, or thefocus of our conversation today,
is addiction and, specifically,conversation surrounding that
right, because it's all abouthow we're communicating through
(00:45):
these things as they come up inour lives and in our families.
But first of all, anne, whydon't we just backtrack and give
us a little bit about you and,ultimately, how this
conversation today applies toyour life as well?
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Sure.
So, as you said already, I'm aparent coach.
I have four kids of my own andso always the Venn diagram of my
personal life and myprofessional life has a very
large overlap and aroundaddiction and substance abuse.
That is also true.
So I have four kiddos.
My oldest is 18.
And when he was 14, he startedreally going down a path of like
(01:25):
really poor mental health thateventually led to substance
abuse, that eventually led toaddiction and addiction
treatment and all of that stuff.
So simultaneously, while I'mcoaching and helping and
supporting families aroundteenage stuff including
substances and rules andboundaries and all of that stuff
I'm also living the dream slashnightmare of dealing with all
(01:49):
that stuff myself.
So, yeah, this is like anextremely professional and
personal topic for me for sure.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Well, that definitely makes you an expert on it,
though, right, because sometimesyou know we can speak about
things that we know about, buthave an experience, but it's
very different when it'spersonal to you too.
Yeah, absolutely All right.
Well, let's just dive in again.
I know this is not an easyconversation to have, and it's
not.
It's certainly something thatwe, as parents, hope that we
never have to deal with in ourfamilies, but you know that's
(02:20):
that we don't live in a perfectworld, right?
So many many of us will have todeal with the conversation of
addiction in our children.
So let's start with, like,backing up to.
What are the numbers Like arewe looking at?
Is it more common in kids today?
It seems like it is.
Is it just because of socialmedia and we hear more about it,
or are we really seeing anincrease in our kids trying more
(02:44):
things and ultimately becomingtruly addicted?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Right, I actually really love this question
because you bring up somethingthat's really important, I think
, in all parenting conversations, which is the exposure that we
have to worldwide stories aboutwhat's going on with kids and
parenting and all that stuff.
It is 10X 100X what weexperienced when we were growing
(03:08):
up.
So it's very easy tohyperbolaise and catastrophize
the stuff that we're beingexposed to all of the time on
social media and in the news andstuff like that.
So we always want to like kindof have that sort of objectivity
or just awareness in thebackground.
In this particular case, it istrue that more things are
(03:29):
happening with kids now thanwhen we were kids, and the real
reason why is because we'reseeing a real surge in mental
health issues right now, notnecessarily just because drugs
are more readily available orhave become normalized or any of
that stuff.
To me, that's a far morenuanced conversation that's
harder to really pin down andsay for sure.
(03:51):
This is actually 100% accurate.
But what we do know is accurateis that kids are experiencing a
lot more mental healthchallenges now than ever before
and because of that there's thisobvious sort of like subsequent
offshoot, which is substanceabuse is on the rise too,
(04:12):
because we know that addictionespecially and substance abuse
stem from a mental healthsituation.
Now, obviously kids experiment.
We experimented when we werekids.
Most likely everyone who'slistening to this has
experimented at some point intheir life.
So it's not to say like, oh, ifyou find a vape or a pipe or
(04:35):
something in your kid's backpack, they definitely have a mental
health problem.
That is not what I'm saying.
There's obviously a continuumof substance use that then can
kind of like segue into abuse,that can segue into addiction.
So it's not this like one sizefits all.
(04:56):
The second you know that yourkid has had a sip of beer at a
party, you're doomed, kind of tosay.
And I think that actually isreally important for us to keep
front and center in our minds asparents, because what happens
when our kids do any sort ofmisbehavior, but especially with
(05:16):
some of these really hot buttonthings like lying, substance
use, all of that stuff ourbrains go into like story caster
mode, like they could put JKRowling to shame.
We are like Pulitzer Prizewinning authors.
The second our kids do somethingthat's just a little bit
upsetting and triggering to us.
So it is very easy.
(05:38):
The second you like seesomething in your kid's backpack
or whatever to really be off tothe races about.
Like well, I'm seeing this.
What am I not seeing?
And what does it mean?
Why would they do this?
Is it because I didn't teachthem the dangers of substances?
And is it because of peerpressure?
Does somebody make them do this?
Like right we're.
All of a sudden it's like achoose your own adventure book
(05:58):
of your nightmares is happeninglike the second.
You just get that tiny littlepiece of information input.
So really, really important tolike keep our feet firmly on the
ground as much as we humanlypossibly can.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
That's a great great way to start it and something to
remind ourselves about.
So let's start with theconversation of talking to our
kids about this before it's anissue.
Yeah, what are your tips andwords of advice on how to have
these?
Speaker 2 (06:27):
conversations.
You guys are not going to likemy answer to this question
because if you listen to thefirst interview or the first
episode I was on, or if anyonelistens to my podcast or
whatever, you probably haveheard me say many times, talking
doesn't teach.
So we need to understand.
I mean, let's be realistic.
We're talking about substanceuse.
(06:47):
Essentially we're talking aboutpreteens and mostly teenagers.
So we need to be really reallyhonest with ourselves about
what's going on inside a teenagebrain.
When your kid starts using,it's not because nobody told
them that that was a baddecision.
It's not because your child isunaware that nicotine is
addictive or that you know usingpot can lead to X, y and Z, or
(07:11):
that marijuana is a depressant,or all the stuff that we learned
in the day or program Alreadyknows that.
It's not because of that thatyour kid is using, and so the
idea that we can forestall orcompletely sidestep their poor
decision to experiment or use orabuse by some amazing TED Talk
(07:36):
slash, afterschool special slashthe more you know thing is
going to.
That's not going to work.
So I'm really sorry to say thatNow what can work is very clear
boundaries.
So if you have established inyour family.
Here are the boundaries that wehave as a family around
(07:58):
substances.
Here are the consequencesaround that.
But I would even really cautionyou to not put too much
emphasis on the consequences,because that can really come off
as threatening your child,especially if they haven't even
done anything yet, but to reallyjust focus on, like, here's how
our family works.
You can do what you want withthat information.
The same as if I was talking toa nine year old or a six year
(08:22):
old and saying, hey, in thisfamily, treats are for kids who
protect their teeth Instead ofyou can't skip brushing your
teeth.
If you don't brush your teeth,I'm not giving you treats and
you have to brush your teeth.
And here's a talk about dentalhygiene.
And do you want gum disease andcavities and lollipop?
That doesn't work.
I guarantee there's someonelistening to this right now
(08:44):
who's already tried sugar.
Grammlings are in your mouthand back to your mouth.
Your kids still to skipbrushing your teeth because they
don't want to and unless theyknow that there.
This is the boundary and this isthe consequence.
It was ever thus and now, child, I have created this amazing,
(09:07):
beautiful container for you,inside of which you get to
decide what you will do withthat information and experience
the outcome of that decision.
Oh, you decided not to brushyour teeth, no problem, I
totally respect your choice.
Looks like you're not going tobe having dessert today, but you
know that was your call.
No worries, we do not need tohave like this whole, like power
(09:28):
struggle over tooth brushing.
The same is true aboutsubstances.
Hey, in this family you arewelcome to experience these
privileges.
As long as I'm not finding hairfinalia in your room, I don't
see that you're intoxicated.
You know that I don't finddrugs in our house, whatever,
(09:51):
and you can completely decide toset that boundary.
Now I'm giving you ahypothetical.
I am not and I do not wantanyone to take this to mean that
we all have to have the sameboundaries around substances.
That is not true.
The boundaries in our home,whatever they are and whatever
topic they're around, have tocome from our own alignment, our
(10:15):
own integrity, our own mentalhealth.
So there's a really bigquestion to ask yourself when
you're thinking about whatboundaries to set around
substances, which is why am Isetting this boundary?
It's very easy to say well, I'msetting it because it's not
healthy and I don't want my kidto be healthy and safe.
(10:38):
That's really great.
Why do you want your kid to behealthy and safe?
If you keep at yying yourself,for most of us we will get to a
place where it's because wecan't even handle the terror and
fear that we feel about theidea of our kids going down this
really scary path of drug use,possible addiction, all the
(11:01):
stuff that comes along with thatself harm, legal issues, all
the stuff.
It's scary.
So what's really happening?
We're parenting out of fear.
We control our children tolessen our discomfort, our fear,
our anxiety.
If that's your why, you have tobe brutally honest with
yourself, if that is even a partof your, why you're not done
(11:25):
with your work.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
What do you mean when you say that, that you're not
done with your work?
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Because your fear, your emotions, are your job.
So if the reason why you'retrying to lessen your emotions
and your fear sorry, if thereason why you're disciplining
your child is to manage youremotions, you're really going
down the co-dependency highwayfull steam ahead.
Your child's job in this worldis not to show up in ways that
(11:54):
don't upset you, and when you'reupset, that is your job.
Your upset is your job.
So how many times have we?
I literally almost did thismyself yesterday with my nine
year old, who was being a realtreat and I was not having a
great time with him, and Itotally found the words almost
(12:18):
I'm going to say almost, I'mvery proud of myself that they
didn't but almost slip out of mymouth, which was I was trying
for us to take space.
I was like I'm really upset, Ineed to take space from you.
You need to stay in your room,I'm going to go downstairs and
he wouldn't stay in his room andI literally almost said and
(12:39):
then I lost my temper because hekept following me around and I
didn't get the space that Ineeded to manage my emotions and
calm my nervous system down andI almost said to him I'm like
I'm yelling at you because youwouldn't give me space, Like,
especially essentially like thisis your fault Me being upset
with you right now.
You did this to yourself.
I obviously did not say that tomy child, but that's what my
(13:01):
brain was thinking.
If you had just stayed in yourroom, like I asked, and just
given me like even five flippinminutes to cool my jets, I would
not be yelling at you right now.
That is what I was thinking andthat that's like a tiny little
microcosm example of how we makeour feelings, our kids, job and
(13:25):
accidentally send them themessage over and over again.
The way you show up in theworld really needs to be
primarily focused on how itmakes everybody else feel,
Especially so if the reason whywe're setting boundaries around
substances is because we aretrying to make ourselves less
scared.
(13:45):
We are making our work, ourkids job, and that's not right.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
But there can be some overlap there, right?
Like I mean, obviously we'regoing to be afraid that, that's
you know.
We don't want to deal with that, but if we can be truly honest
and say that my number onereason for this is for their
benefit, right?
Speaker 2 (14:08):
There can be some overlap, right, that happens.
That happens after you've doneyour work.
So, if you notice and this istrue once again for every
parenting situation like what,what really is different about
substance use, especially oncebefore we've gotten into the
addiction world what really isdifferent about substance use
isn't substance use, it's ourstory about substance use.
(14:30):
Well, this is different becauseit's really really, really
scary versus teeth brushing like, oh well, what's the worst that
could happen?
You need a filling.
If you are able to look at thetriggering behaviors that our
kids possibly can be doing orare doing, like lying, stealing,
using substances, all of thatstuff If you're able to look at
(14:52):
those with the same objectivityas you're able to look at
throwing a ball in the house,missing a homework assignment,
not brushing your teeth they'rebad decisions, they're mistakes
that our kids are making, plainand simple.
If we were able to actuallylook at those things through
that same lens, we realized likethe same principles apply no
(15:14):
matter what.
The only thing that makes itdifferent is how hard it is to
apply those.
It's way easier to apply thoseprinciples to uh-oh, you threw a
ball in the house or, oops, youchose not to brush your teeth,
way easier to apply theprinciples of non-attachment,
managing my emotions, settingboundaries that are not about
taking care of my feelings andall of that stuff.
(15:35):
Way easier to apply that stuffto those low stakes things.
But that doesn't mean theprinciples don't change when it
gets harder.
It just means it's really hardto apply those principles.
So when you realize that you'resetting a goal or, sorry,
setting a boundary solely tomanage your own emotions around
this scary thing, job number oneis to take care of your
(15:57):
emotions.
Do your work, manage yournervous system, get therapy,
possibly, or work with a coachlike me.
Do meditation, mindfulness,work, journaling, educate
yourself, whatever you need todo to actually process and own
those feelings for yourself.
(16:18):
Because then, on the other sideof that, now you can look at
this situation that stillprobably does need boundaries
and discipline around withoutyour emotions and your negative,
fearful, dysregulated emotionsbeing the thing that dictates
how you handle that situation.
Now I can, I've done my work.
(16:39):
Now I can look at the situationand say, okay, all right, I
found a vape pen in my kid'sbackpack and this universal
experience Other of like afreshman or sophomore in high
school, or even an eighth grader, that's like the first thing
that I usually hear is I foundblah in my kid's backpack and
it's usually a vape pen.
(16:59):
So, okay, took care of myemotions, I'm not a spaz attack
anymore.
Now what am I gonna do aboutthe fact that I found this vape
pen in my kid's backpack?
My head's on straight, I canfigure this out and it's not an
either or thing.
It's not like.
Oh well, you're all stirred upabout this, so you shouldn't be
(17:20):
parenting at all.
You just need to go in thecorner and cry yourself to sleep
.
But also, you can't show up ina parenting role and discipline
with integrity unless you alsoare going in a corner and crying
yourself to sleep.
You need to deal with yourfeels.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Deal with your feels.
I like it.
I like it.
Deal with your feels.
Yeah, so, and I guess you knowin once, we take the emotion out
of it and the fear that weexperience.
If we go back to what you saidoriginally, we set clear
boundaries from the start thenit's not a matter of how do I
deal with this.
We've already established howthis is going to be dealt with,
(18:00):
right.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Now it's a matter of walking your top.
Okay, you said that if you knowthat he was gonna be using
drugs or if you found any ofthese X, y and Z things that he
was gonna lose his phone or helost access to the car or you
weren't going to, you know,drive him around because, like
some of us were dealing withthis stuff Actually a lot of us
(18:21):
are dealing with this stuffbefore our kids are even old
enough to drive.
So really we actually have somuch bargaining power, because
how often does a 14 or a 15 yearold ask you to drive them
somewhere or get them somethingor do something for them or pick
(18:41):
something up from the grocerystore for them or whatever?
All the time, probably likeevery three minutes or something
, all of those things you cansay.
You know, I'm sorry, but I justreally don't feel like I've got
the energy to do that for youright now You've really broken a
boundary.
You've crossed a boundary in ourfamily, yeah, oh no.
(19:06):
So yeah, then you obviously doneed to walk your talk.
But you know what we're talkingabout right now is a simple
doesn't seem simple, but arelatively simple scenario of
occasional substance use that'sagainst the rules of the house
and you know that you haveboundaries around that.
Some families don't and that'stotally fine.
(19:28):
Like I said, your boundary doesnot have to be your child can
never use substances and you canhave, you know, very, very
specific and personal individualrules and expectations and
values around that stuff.
So there's no right or wronganswer there.
But you know, then we start tosegue into like okay, but how
(19:48):
about abuse of substance, notjust use of substances, and how
do we know when that's happening?
What do we do about it and whenis it more than abuse?
But it's actually addiction?
And chances are, if you'reasking yourself that question,
I'm probably not the firstsource you're going to to find
(20:11):
out the answer to that.
Like most families, by the time, their kids are regularly using
it, starting to impact theirmental health, their performance
, their experience at school,like all of those things, we've
already started down the path ofgetting support and help for
our kids, for our family, all ofthat stuff.
(20:32):
So if I am the one and onlysource for information on this
topic that you're listening toright now, I encourage you to
really expand and cast a widernet.
I should not be the only person.
For sure, we want your kids tobe getting mental health care.
We want you to be gettingmental health care.
(20:54):
We want you to have a team ofsupport that's helping you
really keep a good head on yourshoulders and figuring out what
to do next.
But I do believe that parentcoaching is a huge part of that,
because addiction isn'tsomething that just happens out
of the blue, and what I mean bythat isn't that it couldn't
(21:17):
blindside you, because itabsolutely can and absolutely
did to me.
But what I mean when I say itdoesn't happen out of the blue
is that there's stuff happeningbehind the scenes, and addiction
is the outcropping.
It's sort of like the tip ofthe iceberg.
It's the symptom that we seefor the things that are
happening behind the scenes.
So the solution to addiction isnot sobriety.
(21:41):
So you, let's say it werepossible for you parenting a kid
who's grappling with addictionto keep them sober Like you, are
actually able to make sure theyhad no access to substances at
all, which is a really bighypothetical, because you can't
do that.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
But let's just say you could.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
That does not mean your child's not suffering with
addiction.
It just means that they'resober.
The opposite to addiction isconnection.
The approach to addictiontreatment that is most effective
and longest lasting has so muchmore to do with mental health,
(22:20):
relationships, healing and pastwounds than it does with
substances.
And if we don't address thosepieces of the puzzle, your child
might be sober, but the secondthey're not strapped to the
wagon.
They will immediately fall off.
When our son was in treatmentand it was looking like it was
(22:42):
time for him to reintegrate andcome back home and all of that
stuff my husband and I hadseveral conversations where I
literally said like our kid isnot on the wagon, he's strapped
to the wagon, and when he comeshome, that is really gonna be
the first time where he'schoosing sobriety versus it
being foisted upon him, and soit's a real make or break moment
(23:07):
for him.
Is that something he's going toactively continue to choose, or
the second, that he's not beingforced against his will to stay
sober, will he elect a differentpath?
And so we focus so much asparents on the sobriety thing.
We just don't want them to useanymore, and we can see so
clearly how they're using isexacerbating all of these other
(23:30):
problems in their lives.
So it seems really logical tous that if they just wouldn't
use, all of a sudden these otherproblems in their lives would
begin to improve as well.
And when we put our focus onthe sobriety piece, we're really
missing the most importantstuff.
It's a red herring thesubstance use.
(23:51):
And it's also an impossible gameof whack-a-mole.
You cannot put.
There are not enough fingers toput in all the holes of that
dam, and if you're in that placeof constantly trying to plug up
the holes, your kid probablyneeds something bigger than you
can give them at home.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
And so when you this is really eye-opening too,
because what you said just hitsthe nail on the head we just
don't want them to do it right.
But even if we take everysingle aspect or like
opportunity away from them, itcan't remain like that forever,
so that's not going to work Well.
So what do you suggest ifsomebody has very strong
(24:30):
feelings that their child isstruggling with addiction?
But the child, but they'venever broached the conversation.
Let's just start with that.
How do you broach thatconversation with a kid?
I think about, like when withadults right, you have
interventions, things like thatyou want them to choose to make
a change.
It's different when it's yourchild, because it's almost like
I'm gonna force them to make achange.
(24:51):
You can't do that with yourfriends in an intervention.
It's a totally differentmindset.
So how do you broach theconversation?
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Yeah.
So I once again get your ownhead on straight first.
So if you're starting to try tohave like this sort of epiphany
conversation with your child,of like I'm gonna just say this
in a way that's really gonna getthrough to you and you're gonna
get the memo, Before you try todo that, really get right with
(25:19):
yourself first and recognize allthe things that you just said,
Elizabeth.
Like you can't control them,you can't control whether
they're gonna choose to use ornot, and you also probably don't
know what's going on internallyfor them.
Most kids know that they havereally veered off course by the
(25:40):
time they're at this point thatwe're talking about right now.
Most kids have a lot of shameabout it.
They also probably have a lotof anger, and then we don't know
.
We also don't know the woundsthat they're dealing with
internally, and I think that'sone of the hardest things for
families when they do finallydecide to really look this thing
in the face and get the helpthat they need.
(26:01):
There's a lot of realizations,reveals.
I would say to parents, eventhe most tuned in parent, even
the parent who's been alongsidetheir child every step of the
way I mean you're talking to aparenting professional I am a
good parent Like if you saw mefly on the wall I do my absolute
utmost to practice what Ipreach.
(26:22):
I'm not perfect, but I alsoknow for a fact that perfection
is not necessary in terms ofbeing a good parent and giving
your kid all the protectivefactors they need.
It was not pleasant for me tofind out from my 15, 16 year old
son all of the feelings andstories that he had been telling
himself about me and our family, unbeknownst to me for 15 years
(26:47):
.
We don't know what's going oninside this kiddo, but we do
know that something isabsolutely going on inside them,
and so, before you have thatconversation, do your absolute
best to manage your own emotions, heal whatever you've got going
on and then really approachthat conversation with curiosity
(27:10):
and no agenda.
So if your point of yourconversation is to get some
specific outcome from your kiddo, you're lost before you even be
gone.
So one of the things I teach myclients right out of the gate
and this could be once again,we're talking about a really
heavy topic these principlesapply to everything from your
toddler to your teenager that wedo not try to solve discipline
(27:34):
problems with conversation.
It doesn't work.
Talking doesn't teach.
What teaches children ismodeling and experiences.
And we give kids experienceswhen we set and hold boundaries
and we model for them when wetake care of our own stuff with
integrity.
So that means that what is thepoint of our conversation, son,
(27:57):
if the point of the conversationisn't to discipline this child
or change their behavior, whatis the point?
The point is to connect withthem, which, remember, is the
opposite of addiction, is theantidote to addiction is
connection.
If you come into thatconversation guns blazing,
saying listen, this can't go onanymore, you cannot do this,
don't you see all these things?
And you're probably high rightnow while we're talking, you
(28:21):
might as well just not have saidanything, but coming into a
conversation just saying, hey, Inoticed that this is going on
with you and I'm just reallycurious, what's your take on it?
And you can hear you can learna lot If you're wondering if
your child's struggling withaddiction.
You can learn a lot fromlistening to their answer to
(28:42):
that question.
But some kids will say, like,I'm just really doing bad.
I feel these really intenseemotions.
I know that this isn't right.
I want to stop, I need help,blah, blah, blah, fabulous.
Some kids will be like my takeon it is everything's hunky-dory
and if you would just get the Fout of my life, everything
(29:02):
would be great.
I had a conversation with my sonwho was very 100% serious and
convinced that this was accurate.
The only reason why I'mdepressed is because you won't
let me smoke weed.
If you would let me smoke weed,I would just feel happy because
you wouldn't be telling me Ican't do the thing I want to do.
My depression is because youwon't let me smoke weed.
(29:24):
And that was true to him.
That was his truth, 100%.
And even in that conversation Iwas like well, it's really
interesting that you think thatbecause, well, first of all,
marijuana is a depressant and,second of all, you have
depression and you are onmedication to treat depression.
So I find it interesting thatyou don't believe that taking a
(29:48):
depressant while you're onanti-depressants would affect
the chemical situation going onin your body and maybe impact
the ability of thoseanti-depressants to help you
with your depression.
This is when I was not doingall the stuff that I'm trying to
tell everybody else.
I was absolutely trying toconvince Elijah to stop using
(30:09):
weed in that conversation, and Iwill give you one guess as to
whether or not that worked.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
So what did work?
What boundaries?
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries.
And if you so I reallyencourage every person on here.
If you think, even if you'rewonder if your child is
struggling with addiction, evenif you just found a vape pen and
you cannot stop fretting aboutit and you know that you're like
off to the races, and eventhough everything on this
podcast makes sense to you, youstill can't really make yourself
(30:42):
calm down.
Go to an Al-Anon or a Nar-Anonmeeting.
You can find them everywhereall day long, like I promise you
, wherever you are.
There are like five meetingshappening within the next three
hours.
Go to a meeting, because one ofthe most important things that
you will learn anytime we're ina relationship with somebody
(31:03):
who's struggling with substances, is that the one and only path
to freedom for both of you isboundaries.
So you can have a tuned inconversation with your child
where you say, hey, this is whatI noticed, what's your take on
it?
Validate there most.
This is the one-two punch ofcommunication, especially with
(31:26):
teenagers validation plusopen-ended, empowering question.
So I think things are great.
Mom, I don't see what yourproblem is.
You're overreacting.
Everybody smokes weed.
Get over it.
Validate that which will behard, and remember validation is
not the same as agreeing.
I'm not saying you agree withyour child, say wow, well I can
(31:49):
see why you'd still be usingdrugs.
If you feel like I'moverreacting, that makes perfect
sense.
Or no wonder you're so angry atme.
Every time I wanna talk to youabout weed, you think I'm
overreacting and making a bigdeal out of nothing.
That makes perfect senseValidate, validate, validate and
then ask a follow-up question.
That's not like.
Well, don't you think you'remaking a big mistake?
(32:11):
That is not an open-ended,empowering question.
We want you to be asking aquestion that's like why do you
suppose you do that?
Like, what do you like about it?
What made you try it in thefirst place?
I'm so curious how is itaffecting you at school?
Maybe you don't think it'saffecting you at all.
(32:33):
Like all of these questionsthat are just about encouraging
our kids to reflect and becomeintrospective and consider these
things for themselves, they arenot going to come to the
conclusion you want them to, or,if they do, it will take them
way longer than you want it totake.
But the point isn't that you'rechanging their trajectory.
The point in the conversationis that you're connecting.
(32:55):
Then you have the boundaries.
You can say well, I hear whatyou're saying.
You do not want to stop.
It feels really good and greatto you.
You're the boss of your bodyand I can't control your body
and it'll be stupid for me totry and also hypocritical, at
least in our family, because wespent like 15 years teaching our
children you're the boss ofyour body.
Now let me tell you all thethings you're not allowed to do
(33:17):
with your body.
It just wasn't right for us.
But you can say, just so youare aware these privileges are
available to people who areclean, or we do not approve of
this, or whatever.
And here is the boundary.
So one of my now it's funny nowwhen I look back on it one of
(33:43):
my funniest boundary settingconversations with Elijah was
when I was like you cannot behigh in this house.
You cannot have weed in yourroom, you cannot have
paraphernalia in your room, youmay not use drugs in our house.
I never said to him you can'tuse drugs, like literally.
I didn't say this to him, butliterally he could have taken
what I had said and made it meanoh sweet, so I can just get
(34:06):
high in the alley, or I'll justsmoke in the garage.
Like obviously I did not wanthim to come away with that
conclusion that literally fitwith the boundary that I was
setting.
Technically he would not acceptit.
He thought I was being a crazyperson for telling him that he
couldn't get high in his bedroom.
Like he really felt like it washis God given right to just
(34:28):
smoke weed in his room and whatwas my problem with that?
But the point is I was able toset that boundary and say you
know what?
You don't have to agree and alot of times when we're having
these boundary setting moments,it's we need to agree, to
disagree.
You totally have every right inthe world to think that the
boundary I'm setting isridiculous.
(34:49):
You have every right todisagree with me.
You have every right to violatethe boundary that I'm setting.
You are in charge of whetheryou choose to follow or break or
cross a boundary.
You absolutely get to decidethat and this is the boundary
and whatever you choose, I'llrespect your choice.
Here's how I'm gonna take careof myself around this boundary.
(35:13):
So now with Elijah, we setboundaries.
He could not follow theboundaries and, luckily for us,
we had a lot of information andknowledge and experience and
training on our side that helpedus be able to see and
(35:33):
understand that when Elijahcouldn't follow a boundary, it
was really because he trulycould not.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Once you're in the throes of addiction.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
No boundary can stop you because your addiction will
win every time.
So we really made a consciousdecision that we set up the
container for Elijah and we knewthat if he couldn't stay within
that container it was trulybecause, not because he didn't
want to or not even because hedidn't try, but because he truly
(36:02):
could not, and that was a signfor us that he needed something
more.
So within this container, lotsof boundaries about hey, if you
miss curfew, that's how manyminutes your curfew is advanced
the next day.
So if your curfew is nine andyou get home at 9.15, well,
tomorrow your curfew is 8.45.
(36:22):
And if you lie, here's what wedo about it and all those little
boundaries and things.
But ultimately we also had avery sort of bigger boundary,
which was three strikes withsubstances, and after that we
know that you need somethingbigger than what we can provide
(36:44):
you at home.
So whether it's findingparaphernalia, finding
substances, you failing a drugtest or us just realizing and
observing you to be intoxicated,those will all count as strikes
.
And if you have a third strike,then we know what we're doing
(37:04):
at home isn't enough for you toneed something bigger than that.
And that is what happened.
Elijah had a third strike andso he had to go and be in.
We did wilderness therapy forthree months and then after that
he had residential treatmentand it saved his life 100% and
it totally saved our family,because he definitely needed
(37:29):
more than what we could give himat home.
It wasn't a punishment, itwasn't your bad so you can't
live with us anymore or we don'tlike you, or it wasn't anything
like that.
It was literally just the sameas if he had gotten diagnosed
with cancer and he neededradiation and chemotherapy.
Like well, I don't have that atmy house, so we're going to
have to go to the hospital togive that to you.
It's not because you're bad,it's not because I'm punishing
(37:51):
you.
It's because you have asickness that I can't treat in
home.
It needs to be somewhere elseand addiction truly is a
sickness.
So when we say things like youknow, elizabeth, you've said a
couple times and I think it's sotelling and it's so common and
so normal Like well, how can weset this stuff up so it doesn't,
so we just don't need this andit never can happen.
(38:14):
You can't, and if this is likewhat's in your child's future,
the best thing you can do is towalk alongside him or her with
integrity, with boundaries, withyou taking care of yourself,
because they have a long road tohoe and they will do it so much
(38:34):
better when they have thebuy-in and participation and
true health mental health oftheir parents with them along
that path.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Yeah, Wow, I think I mean such a good conversation
and I think it's interestingthat we've had a heavy
conversation and still laughedalong the way.
So one of the things I loveabout talking to you but so many
good things to pull from this Ilove too.
When you said validating is notagreeing with, yeah, that was
something I made a note of too,because I think those are just
(39:08):
all really really great pointsthat we can use.
One last question I know we'reshort on time here, but one last
question Back to kind of thecommunication side of things For
the kids, let's say, thesiblings that are seeing this,
and they know what's going on tosome extent, right.
To some extent, especially inyour situation.
Right, your other children knewthat Elijah wasn't living with
(39:31):
you anymore for a short periodof time, right?
What do we?
Do you have any words of wisdomor advice to talk about these
things with the kids who areimpacted?
Speaker 2 (39:41):
Yeah.
So this is where I think theway that I work with parents is
so important, which is to saythat I use a relationship based
approach to parenting, whetherwe're talking about the
relationship with one betweenone parent and the child and
then the second parent and thechild, which helps so much with
parents not feeling like theyneed to be on the same page and
(40:04):
control each other and stufflike that, so you can get to
create your own relationshipwith your kiddo.
And that also applies betweensiblings.
Your siblings, your kids, eachhave a unique, sacred, singular
relationship between them andtheir sibling and that is
something that you canfacilitate healing around, but
(40:27):
you cannot control it or manageit or fix it or heal it or any
of that stuff that has to comefrom those two siblings.
So when your child let's sayyou've got a sibling who's
either really afraid because ofwhat they've seen their sibling
do, or really sad, or they aremad at you because you sent
their sibling away, or all ofthose things, once again same
(40:51):
stuff.
Those, remember, conversationsare not about changing or fixing
anything.
They're just about connection.
Have that connectedconversation with your kiddo,
validate what they're feelingLike.
It makes perfect sense thatyou're angry with me, of course.
You woke up and your sibling isgone, like who wouldn't be mad.
I can't blame you at all forthinking that, right, and you
(41:16):
know why do you think that wehad to do this?
Or why do you think it might bea good thing?
Right, all of that stuff has tobe led by your kiddo, so you
can't say why do you think itmight be a good thing?
If they're like this is aterrible thing.
Well, but what if it was adifferent way?
That I would rather you see it.
But you know, if they're saying, like well, I feel kind of
(41:43):
guilty.
Okay, what do you feel guiltyabout?
Well, I feel kind of guiltybecause I'm a little bit
relieved that they're gone.
Oh yeah, that makes total sense.
I get that.
You know what I actually feelthat way too a little bit.
Like I feel really guilty abouthow calm and happy I feel right
now.
Whoa, now we're both having thesame experience, you know, and
(42:03):
that's when you can say, like so, maybe there's actually part of
this that's good for us, eventhough it's really sad that they
had to go away.
What might that good stuff be?
You know that kind of thing.
So, but remember that it's notabout them.
Well, first of all, theseconversations are never one and
done.
It's always just likeinteresting.
I'll let that marinate for youand maybe tomorrow you'll have
(42:24):
made ever different conversation, or you know, my favorite thing
that I ever hear out of my kidsmouths is I was thinking about
that thing you said the otherday.
I'm like oh yes.
You know, I had a conversationwith one of my other kids a
couple months ago where we weretalking about like body
(42:46):
Positivity and obesity.
I don't know how we even got onthat topic and I was like you
know, I think Sounds like fromsome of the stuff you're saying
that you might really feel alittle bit judgmental of people
who are overweight and and he'slike whatever.
And he left and like two hourslater he came back to me.
Is like I've been thinkingabout what you said and I think
I do judge people who areoverweight and I'm like, wow,
(43:07):
cool, I think you do too.
Why do you think you do that?
And it's really really coolconversation comes out of it.
So this your kid is gonna begoing on their journey, just
like you are, of grappling withbeing in a relationship with an
addict and it is Nothing thatanybody wants, of course.
(43:29):
Like it still feels like nailson a chalkboard sometimes when I
say like my son is an addict,or I'm in a relationship with an
addict, or you know we haveaddiction in our family.
It's doesn't feel Realsometimes, like that's not the
story I told myself about myfamily back when I was like
pregnant and all starry-eyedabout Becoming a mother right.
(43:52):
Yeah but always like we have ourwork to do, parallel alongside
our kids, while they are Gettingtreatment for addiction or
working on addiction, which isto realize like, well, what,
what's my unfinished business sothat I can actually show up?
And most parents, at least partof our unfinished business is
blaming ourselves like whatcould I have done differently,
(44:14):
so this didn't ever happen,right?
Speaker 1 (44:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
I must have screwed up big time for my kid to be
doing doing this poorly, and youknow.
What you're really doing isjust make taking this kid's
story and making it yours, whichisn't true, and instead Knowing
that you did the best that youcould.
You still have lots to learnand grow, just like every human,
(44:37):
and Whatever your kid comes,learns and discovers that they
need to help them along theirpath, you get to rise to that
occasion, but definitely whatthey don't need is for you to
like self-flagellate the entiretime they're in treatment.
Yeah, because then, like yourfamily therapy sessions, just
look like mom and dad, likebeeping and rending their
(44:58):
garments, and you know that'snot helpful.
You know, imagine if you were ina like in a friendship, and
your child and your friend didsomething that hurt you and you
told them that it hurt you, andinstead of them saying like, oh
my gosh, I'm so sorry, I had noidea, how can I make it right?
What can I do to support younow?
(45:19):
Instead they just spent therest of your like coffee date
crying and talking about a pieceof garbage they were.
Would that actually help takecare of your hurt feelings or
help you move on from that?
Speaker 1 (45:30):
event.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
No, no.
That's not what we need frompeople.
Our kids do not need us to like, feel like garbage.
Tell them we're garbage, treatourselves like garbage, like
that's.
That's not useful to anybodyright right.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
Well, I think you know, one of the things that I
take away to from conversationswith you is our focus is always
how can we communicate with ourkids about this?
But when I talked to you a lotof times it comes back to how
can we communicate withourselves about this?
Yeah, and that is that's.
That's really, you know, animportant, a hugely important
piece of it, right, absolutelyWell, and we really really
(46:06):
appreciate you being vulnerableand sharing such.
You know such a story and, likeyou said, nobody wants to Be in
that situation and talkingabout it with a bunch of
strangers.
You know, it's not alwayssomething we want to do, but I
am positive that your storyhelps other people and, if
anybody is whether it'saddiction or, like we said
earlier, getting your kids tobrush your teeth, whatever if
they feel like they'restruggling and really would like
(46:27):
to connect with you more,what's the best way for them to
get in touch with you?
Speaker 2 (46:31):
well, the best way to find out all the ways is to go
to my website, which is andKaplan parent coach, comm, and
If you go to that website you'regonna see all this cool stuff.
You can get in touch with me inso many ways.
You can just literally contactme from my website.
You can also get my free guide,getting kids to listen the
(46:51):
first time, which, after thispodcast, I bet you know that
it's like a trick and once youactually open the workbook
you'll realize that it's notabout getting kids to do
anything, but it really helpskind of teach you the
fundamental principles that Iuse to teach my clients
discipline strategies but applyto this very universal situation
(47:12):
we find ourselves in, which isrepeating ourselves constantly
and no one's listening to us andall that stuff.
So, getting kids to listen thefirst time, you can find that on
my website.
You can also just find there'sa bit lily link for it bitly
slash kids who listen, andYou'll be able to find the
podcast there.
But the coolest thing that youcould find on my website is a
link to set up a consultationwith me, which is totally free
(47:34):
and will blow your mind whetheror not you decide to continue
working with me after that onebeautiful hour of connection.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
Well, I have appreciated our hour of
connection here and I reallyencourage everybody to go check
out her website, get on themailing list.
The emails are fantastic, sorelatable.
If you're anywhere in thethroes of parenting, it is
definitely great informationdelivered right here inbox every
week.
So we'll make sure we link toall of that, too, in the show
notes and we really againAppreciate all your time and
(48:05):
your awesome insight.
Thank you for being here, ofcourse.
Thanks, elizabeth.
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