July 21, 2025 • 40 mins
"Your psychology is everything. The way you interpret events matters more than the events themselves."
These powerful words from licensed clinical social worker Yuri Mello capture the essence of a transformative approach to parenting teenagers. As a father of five and co-founder of School Pulse, Mello brings decades of clinical experience and personal wisdom to the challenging landscape of parent-teen relationships.
Most parents find themselves stuck in reactive patterns, responding to each crisis as it emerges rather than building the foundation for lasting connection. Mello introduces a revolutionary framework that distinguishes between "inviting" positive outcomes and "provoking" resistance in our interactions with teens. This simple but profound shift in approach can transform even the most strained parent-teen dynamics.
At the heart of Mello's approach is the "positive interaction ratio" - maintaining at least three positive moments for every challenging conversation. Our brains are wired to remember negative experiences more vividly than positive ones, which means parents must intentionally create an abundance of positive interactions to balance the inevitable difficult moments. When this ratio flips negative, relationships deteriorate rapidly.
Mello reimagines Maslow's hierarchy of needs for parenting, placing emotional safety at the foundation, followed by trust, kindness, and only then accountability. Too many parents invert this pyramid, focusing primarily on discipline while neglecting the relationship layers that make discipline effective. Through practical examples and vulnerable personal stories, Mello demonstrates how parents can position themselves to be among the first people their teens turn to in times of need.
The conversation also explores School Pulse, an innovative program delivering positive psychology content directly to students via text messages and videos, creating pathways for support before crises occur. This proactive approach represents the future of mental health support for young people.
Listen now to discover practical strategies for maintaining connection during the turbulent teen years and building relationships that will last a lifetime. Your approach to parenting challenges today shapes not just your child's behavior, but who they become and how they'll relate to you for decades to come.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to Speak Out.
Stand Out.
I'm Elizabeth Green, andtoday's guest is Yuri Mello.
Yuri is a licensed clinicalsocial worker and author and the
proud father of five.
He is also a co-founder ofsomething called School Pulse,
which is a nationwide studentsupport service that delivers
positivity, optimism and growthmindset tools to students,
(00:20):
parents and faculty via text andemail, and who doesn't need
some positivity added to theirday?
Yuri, we're glad to have youhere today.
Thanks for being here.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Elizabeth, I am hyped .
Let's go for it.
I really appreciate the invite.
It's good to be here and let'ssee where we go.
Like wherever we go, I promiseit's going to be good, it's
going to be optimistic andhopefully we're going to drop
some good tools for everybody,including ourselves, right?
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Yes, that is the goal .
I love it.
I always learn something new inthese podcast recordings, so
it's always beneficial for me aswell.
So, okay, let's start with Yuri.
When we were growing up, mentalhealth not something people
focused on, especially when itcame to kids and teens.
How did it come about that thisis your focus in life?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
You know, honestly probably not purposefully I was
one of those people.
I was one of those adolescentsthat probably didn't know what
they wanted to do and really noidea of what was going to happen
.
I'm the youngest of three and Ifeel like maybe the youngest
children are a little bit likethat.
They're a little bitdirectionless, directionist,
directionist, directionist,whatever I don't even know what
that is.
But um, and so I actually whenI first went to school, I mean
(01:32):
and I grew up in Portugal andmaybe we'll go into that, and I
think when you talk about likemental health and the stigma, or
even just not really talkedabout, I would say that, uh,
portugal is, is probably evenmore that way.
It's just not something that'sreally addressed.
I don't even know if today Ifeel like people try to be
(01:52):
pretty like computer informationsystems, because my older
brother was doing that, didn'treally like that, did have a
really cool psychology teacherthat I think kind of had an
(02:13):
impact on my life a little bit.
And then after that I actuallykind of had a period where I did
some volunteer service for acouple of years, for a couple of
years and honestly, that wasreally the first time where I
thought.
You know, I kind of I do wellwith people Like I.
Just I like them, like theirstrange behavior or crazy
(02:37):
whatever it is like it doesn'tscare me, I'm not bothered by it
.
And so when I began my bachelorlevel and then on to my master's
, I decided to go intopsychology and it was just a
good fit for me, maybe becauseit was a little bit easier, I
don't know, it's kind of one ofthose soft sciences, right, but
(02:57):
I really just enjoyed it and, tobe super honest with you, I'm
grateful I can totally look backand see myself doing a variety
of other things that I probablywould enjoy just as much.
But psychology has been apretty positive field for me.
I think it's fascinating.
I love to meet people.
For the past 20 years I'vespent a lot of time, I mean just
(03:20):
face to face, right Eyeball toeyeball, with tens of thousands
of people and honestly I love it.
Like it's interesting.
It never gets old for me.
And so, and then over the pastseven years, you know I've
developed this other littleprogram that we may touch on
that, but once again it's thesame thing.
Like I'm trying to just createthis optimistic and positive
(03:45):
perspective and give people somegoggles right, a perspective, I
think, that allow them tointerpret the events in their
lives in a little bit of abetter way, which I believe can
ultimately impact them not justin the short but in the long
term as well.
And so, anyways, maybe we'lltouch on those.
But yeah, I had no idea thatthis is what I wanted to do.
(04:05):
Uh, I mean I'm, I'm going to be50 this year.
I mean it could change at anymoment, like I'm like a wild
card, who knows?
Speaker 1 (04:15):
I understand that career paths are always, ever,
ever moving and fluid, right.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Well, you're talking about.
You enjoy learning about peopleand you want to spread
positivity.
How does this boil down to usas parents?
And building those skills inour kids how does that connect?
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Okay, so I've got five kiddos and I have to, I
mean, shout out, right, and I'mparticularly biased, of course,
but really just have somephenomenal kids whom I have
learned from from, still amlearning from, and who make my
life better.
And I realized that that's noteverybody's experience, Right,
and I don't necessarily like say, well, that's because I was a
(04:53):
good dad, or I don't honestlyunderstand, like I, I seriously
don't like when I'm thinkinglike big, like you know whether
you know physical, biological,spiritual, like I don't know why
things have turned out the waythat they are, like I don't
fully understand that, but I'mjust incredibly grateful for my
(05:17):
kids, like I just feel gratefulto be in their presence, I'm
excited when I see them, and soI will say this like I think
whenever I talk to parents and Italked to a lot of parents,
right, and a lot of timesparents just come in and they'll
bring me their kids and kind ofdo what I call drive by therapy
, right, they'll kind of show upand kick their kid into my
(05:38):
office and like here, fix them.
And and actually one of thefirst things that I'll tell
parents whenever I talk to themon the phone is make sure that
if you do send your kid totherapy which is good, and I
hope that they have a fabulousexperience but just make sure
that you throw yourself into themix, like be part of that
process, don't just send the kidin, just be a little bit more
(06:00):
humble and throw yourself intothe process and say, hey, look,
I'm sure I'm not doing thingsright myself.
And I think when you putyourself in that place alongside
of your kid, I think you mightactually get a better outcome
with them.
Um, because I I think theywon't see them.
I think they'll see the processin a less bitter way, and I
(06:25):
think sometimes bitterness cancause a lot of resistance, right
, and I think, even as parents,right, I think we provoke the
heck out of our kids sometimes,just the way we do things, the
way we say things, and it'snormal, like it is what it is.
But I think one of our goalstoday, or is how do we invite
(06:47):
something different from ourchildren?
Right, I sometimes use, oh,those balloons.
I think one of the, I think oneof the things that I'll these
two kinds of words that I usewith people all the time is
inviting and provoking, and Ithink that there's a lot of
things that we can do as parentsthat invite better outcomes,
(07:09):
and there's a lot of things thatwe do as parents that provoke
poor outcomes, and so today,maybe we can even talk a little
bit about those, and because Iwould love to be a help not just
to your lovely parents, butalso to the teens themselves.
Anyways, that was probably morethan you wanted to know.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
No, I like where this is going.
I have never heard of itphrased like that inviting
outcomes and provoking outcomesand when you said that, my
immediate thought was there arecertain things my own mother
does that provokes outcomes inme, unintentionally.
That was my first thought andthen I thought, oh wait, I guess
I do this to my kids too, solet's talk.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Let's talk about that , like how we do, like in a lot
of times, right, I mean it canbe intentional, right, but but I
feel like so much of ourbehavior and this isn't to, you
know, give people arationalization or justification
for what they do.
But I feel like ignorance islike the human condition.
(08:12):
And I say ignorance not as instupidity or anything silly like
that, but I mean ignorance asin like we just don't know.
We just don't know, we don'tknow better.
We're doing the best that wecan, we're trying to do the best
that we can.
We're often like emotionallyand psychologically overwhelmed.
They're just overwhelmed withlife.
I feel like that's my conditionright now.
To be honest, elizabeth is justa state of overwhelm, right With
(08:35):
just like my profession, myinvolvement, obviously, with,
like my kids, their activities,my involvement in my community
with church, et cetera, theiractivities, my involvement in my
community with church, etc.
And there is just an immenseoverwhelm and sometimes there's
almost this little pit in mystomach that I can't quite shake
.
I'm probably just being alittle more personal here.
(08:56):
And so, as a result, right thenwe have these precious,
phenomenal children that we getto raise right and we get to
teach and we get to educate andthey get to be a part of our
lives, uh and, and they're inthat massive state of ignorance
themselves, right, they're justtrying to figure things out, and
(09:18):
I think that there's a lot thatwe can do for them.
And I'll give you one quicktool, um, even for your parents,
and I'll give you one quicktool even for your parents, and
I'll actually it's not mine,it's one that I'll kind of steal
from John Gottman, who is kindof a really well known kind of
marriage researcher.
But he spent a lot of timetalking about ratios and kind of
(09:39):
making sure that you'remanaging your ratios and your
manage.
And I've always kind of justflipped that to managing your
ratios with your children, andI've always kind of just flipped
that to managing your ratioswith your children.
And let me just explain thatreally quickly.
So ratio just means kind of apercentage right, and so if you
think about in a marriage, hewould describe it as just make
sure that you have threepositive interactions with your
(10:00):
spouse compared to every onenegative, right.
And the main idea here was, hesaid, if you want to have a good
relationship with your spouse,if you want to have a good
marriage, right, if you want tohave a good relationship with
your partner, right, make surethat your ratios are always on
the positive right.
But realistically it was reallymore than three to one, it was
more like five or 10, or 15 toone.
(10:23):
And so, as a parent, what Iwould say to you is job number
one or somewhere down that line.
Right Is is make sure that theratios in your relationship with
your kids are always on thepositive right.
A lot of times, by the time thatparents bring kids into therapy
with me, I feel like theirratios are on the negative right
(10:47):
.
They have more negativeinteractions with their kid than
positive ones, and wheneverthat happens, number one, it's
miserable, right.
I mean, it's suffering for theboth of them, but it's difficult
to build right.
It's difficult to build whenour ratios are like that.
And I don't know exactly whythere has to be, you know why,
(11:09):
the justice of three to one orfive to one or 10 to one or 20
to one, why that happens?
I would guess, if I had toguess really quickly as to why
there has to be such adifference right, such a
difference right is because wein our lovely craniums, right,
we have this wonderfulsurvivalistic organ up there
(11:30):
called brain, and that's exactlywhat it is.
It's a survivalistic organ and,as a result, I think it
remembers pain and sufferingbetter than it does joy and
happiness, in part, becausethat's what protects this
organism right.
And so the brain just rememberspain, it remembers suffering,
it remembers those things, andthat's why we almost have to, in
(11:55):
a way, disproportionately,provide more positive engagement
, more positive interactionswith our children than negative
ones, more positive interactionswith our children than negative
ones.
Another one that I always tellparents is is do whatever you
can in your power to start andend the day well, like just, and
you know how it is right.
I mean when you, when you greetyour kids in the morning and
(12:17):
they're groggy and they're likeyou know, walking down the
stairs, you know, and you'relike, oh my gosh, how are you?
And they just like want tothrow up all over you because it
drives them absolutely crazy.
Um, but I actually kind of lovethat.
I, I kind of love theirsaltiness and their sassiness a
little bit, uh, but that's oneof the things that I'll always
say is make sure, start your dayWell with them, just be kind,
(12:40):
fun, humorous, nerdy, whateverword you want to do there and
then do what you can and itwon't always work this way, of
course, but do what you can tojust make peace at the end of
your day.
You know, make amends, own youknow silly stuff that you've
done as a parent as well.
I used to call these my littlekind of bedside chats with my
(13:03):
kids, kind of once things havekind of settled down and you
know, and maybe that day I'vesaid something and it went too
far or I was a little bit cruelor mean or whatever it was, and
I just remember some of theselittle chats that I would have
with my kids that I honestly alot of them.
I would just apologize, likeman, I'm really sorry.
(13:23):
Like today was a hard day.
I'm sorry that I said I'm sorrythat I honestly a lot of them.
I just apologize, like man, I'mreally sorry.
Like today was a hard day.
I'm sorry that I said I'm sorrythat I told you to shut up
whatever it was Right and uh,and then almost kind of always
in in this positive uh, likelet's, tomorrow's going to be a
better day, like let's, let'stry again tomorrow, you know,
and so I think that that wouldbe one of those tools that I
(13:43):
would say, especially if Trustthat process right, because we
can convince ourselves to notstay there right.
(14:10):
Well, I don't want to, like youknow, prolong his behavior or
give it a positive reinforcementfor being stupid or this or
that.
And what I would say to you isis realize that sometimes our
job as parents is a job ofpositioning, like we have to
position so that when ourchildren are ready to change,
(14:34):
they'll want to come to us.
And I think if we presentourselves as these kind of
hardcore, jerky punishing, wejust will not be those people.
We will not be those people.
Somebody else will, and that'sokay.
We realize that it takes avillage.
(14:55):
I love that, but, man, I wouldreally love to be whenever my
kids, whether they're doing goodor not so good, I would love to
be considered as one of thosetop three people that they would
say like I can go to my dad,like and I'm not, you know,
(15:16):
going to be ridiculed, or I toldyou so, or like I'm just going
to be cared for and loved andand he's going to hear me out
and hopefully, with him we canmaybe work through a problem Uh,
and I'm not going to feel, youknow, embarrassed or ashamed.
So that's kind of my goal.
It's definitely what Idefinitely want to play the long
ball, and I would encourageparents to do the same.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
I think, yeah, I think that's really important
for all of us.
I think we all want that forour relationships with our kids,
and one of you touched on acouple of things.
You talked about just feelingso overwhelmed and I think
you're speaking exactly to ouraudience.
I don't know a parent out therein today's day and age that
doesn't feel overwhelmed amajority of the time.
And then you talked aboutpositive and negative reactions
(16:02):
and these ratios, or notreactions, but actions.
What was the word you usedPositive and negative?
Oh, like ratios, Like a ratioyes, yeah, negative, oh like
ratios, like a ratio, yes, butum, so when I'm thinking about
my own interactions with my 16year old I it's sometimes I have
had to make myself think justbecause I don't think this is a
(16:24):
negative interaction, likesaying, hey, bud, it's time to
empty the dishwasher.
That is a negative interactionand I think what do you?
I mean, we have to think likethat too, right?
Sometimes we're saying thingsthat are, even if it's mundane,
it still can lean on thenegative side for them, and
we're not.
When you're talking aboutpositive versus negative, you're
(16:45):
not just talking about whenwe're like at each other you
know right, we're just talkingabout everyday conversations or
moments, right?
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Oh yeah.
Yeah, I'm not talking about areally specific thing.
I'm just saying, whether it's aday-to-day conversation,
whether it's a text, whetherit's a reminder, I realize that
we're still parents.
There are rules, there arethings that we would like to
have happen in our home.
We have positive and goodexpectations.
(17:15):
Kids want to do what they wantto do, right, the things that
you and I value, elizabeth,right, that we would put on our
top five of like this matters,right?
I mean, they're like 10, 11, 12, 15.
They might make the top 20 forkids, but they're just not at
the top, right, and so, as aresult, we're going to have a
lot of this kind of leveragingconversation.
(17:38):
Right, most kids do not want toempty the trash, they do not
want to empty the dishwasher.
They do not want to do that.
They want to do their thing,what they enjoy, what they have
at that top.
You know whether that's friends,fun, freedom, whatever it is.
And ours are just a little bitdifferent.
In fact, this is another littletool that I'll sometimes talk
to parents about, and I mightnot be able to remember all of
(18:01):
them, but whenever I talk aboutkind of figuring out what our
expectations are, the thingsthat we prioritize versus our
kids.
And I will say, parents usuallyprioritize responsibility,
right, and kids will prioritizefreedom, right, we will
prioritize safety.
They prioritize fun, weprioritize family time.
(18:23):
They prioritize friends, right,we prioritize like, think of
the long term, think of thefuture.
They're thinking like now,right, right, this instant right
.
And so, as a result, like we'rekind of, you know, tug of
warring between these two.
But the reality is and this isnot just what I tell parents,
(18:44):
this, but I also tell teens thisright is is it's the
realization that really bothsides are wonderful.
Like, of course, I want to beresponsible, but, man, I love my
freedom, right, I love my timewith my family, but I really
enjoy some time with my friendstoo, like I really enjoy the
future, but like I got to behappy now period, like I love.
(19:05):
And another one that is also isparents really want open
communication and adolescentsand teens are really coming into
privacy.
They love their privacy, right,and so these become areas of
conflict all the time.
And if we can help parents torealize that, look, all of these
are good, right, these are goodthings that you should balance
(19:28):
in your own life, right, andsometimes what I tell teens is
look, I just need you to realizethat parents are really wanting
this and if I can get you togive a little bit of this,
you're going to get more of this, Right, and so because that's
just how it works.
But sometimes it's helpful forparents and teens to kind of
(19:48):
realize, right where they are,like, the expectations that they
have, conscious or unconscious,that certainly end up creating
a lot of that conflict.
And I think if parents, if wecan learn to be trusting and
obviously like to be parents andto be, you know, we want to be
(20:10):
able to discipline and to teachand to hold accountable and all
of those things.
We want to be able todiscipline and to teach and to
hold accountable and all ofthose things.
But before we do that, if youcan think of Abraham Maslow's
hierarchy of needs and I feellike everybody knows that, with
safety and shelter at the bottomand then belonging, et cetera,
(20:31):
all the way up to, like,self-actualization at the top,
or even self-transcendence,which he added on later but if
you can think of that almostlike if we could change some of
those words a little bit andapply that same kind of
hierarchy of needs to parentingor to your relationship with
(20:51):
your children, and I wouldabsolutely put at the bottom
safety.
And I don't mean just safety asin, like you know, like
physical violence or verbal.
I mean safety as in, yeah, likeyour kids feel like, hey, my
dad's got my back, orElizabeth's got my back, my
mom's got my back, like this isa safe place for me to go, and
(21:14):
kids are pretty sensitive tothat, I'll be honest.
And so for me, my littlehierarchy of needs for parents
is do everything in your powerto create that safety foundation
between you and your child andyour relationship, because
that's I think that it'spowerful there.
I think that that'sfoundational for a relationship
(21:36):
to progress is it has to feelsafe.
There I would put the next oneright is trust and loyalty, the
next one love, kindness and fun,and then only after that I
would put that kind ofaccountability and discipline
right.
And so, in a sense, we want tobuild those lower, like I guess
(21:57):
what I would call therelationship layers, right
Before we jump into those top,like accountability, discipline
ones.
And, once again, sometimes bythe time I get to see kids,
their pyramid is upside down,right.
Parents are spending all of thetime holding accountable,
(22:17):
disciplining all of those things, and very little time on that,
and by then the relationship isnot in a good space.
And so that's another one thatif I could just suggest to
parents is keep thoserelationship rungs right just
nicelyungs right, just nicelyfilled, right.
(22:37):
It's almost like, you know,putting money in the bank
account, like that's the bankaccount, so that when we have
those challenging conversationsat the top, we're more likely to
have a positive outcome, we'remore likely to be listened to,
because, honestly, I don't wantto just talk to be listened to,
I don't want to just say stuffto be heard, like when I deliver
(22:57):
something to my children I wantto do, I want to try to do it
in a way where it will beeffective, right, and that's
maybe where that kind ofinvitation and provoking
language comes from.
Right Is is we can sometimes.
I'll give you an example.
So let's say my, you know, mychild comes in, he's got a
curfew at midnight or whatever,and he comes in and it's like
(23:19):
1215 or 1220 or whatever, it isright.
And I could begin thatconversation with him with
something like this Cole, my 17year old right now, I said, cole
, you're always late.
Like, where were you tonight,right, and my tone, you know my
(23:40):
ambush, kind of behavior likethat is not going to trigger,
most likely, a very positiveresponse on his end.
What will happen on his end ishe'll immediately go, he's going
to close up, right.
He's either going to do one oftwo things, right he's either
going to fight with me or he'sjust going to be quiet and close
(24:02):
up, right.
And so what I would suggest toyou is, instead of provoking
resistance, right, instead ofprovoking defensiveness,
provoking resistance rightInstead of provoking
defensiveness.
And, by the way, sometimes yourchildren will be defensive
without you provoking them.
(24:22):
Just let it be.
Let me be clear.
But but I think a lot of timeswe end up provoking that, right,
we ambush them with ourlanguage, we kind of machine gun
attack them.
You know you did this and thatand the last time, and you know,
and how can you expect it to doright?
And our kids are just like, andit's, it's difficult, it would
be challenging for us as adultsto go through an onslaught like
(24:47):
that and to be receptive and tobe open and to be willing for
our heart and mind to be soft,right.
And so, once again, for me, mygoal isn't just to lecture or to
say, or I gotta.
My goal, just as it is intherapy with I'm with
individuals, like I want todeliver information that's most
likely to be absorbed, that'smost likely to be listened to,
(25:12):
and so I try to present right Ina way that's gentle, in a way
that's kind, like I'm interestedin them, like hey, how was your
night?
Who were you with?
Right, tell me about this.
I saw on, you know, like thephone, that you were at this
house.
How are they doing?
(25:33):
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,right.
And then I think maybe I wouldcome Cole, I'm noticing a
pattern here.
You're frequently now coming alittle bit later.
Each time You're not telling us, you're not answering the phone
, you're not answering our texts, whatever it is right.
And then I think I address thatlike hey, can we work on that
(25:56):
this next time?
Like, and then we want to.
You know, it's almost like the,you know what do they call it?
Like this is silly andinappropriate, but like the crap
sandwich, right.
It's like start good, then givethat feedback and then end good
, right, yeah, and I think thatthat works with our kids.
Like, just just invite, invite,an open mind, invite an open
(26:19):
heart and you're going to getbetter outcomes in the short
term, and I think you're goingto promote that kind of
foundational relationship thatI'm talking about, where you're
going to get better outcomes inthe longterm as well.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
But we all want.
You know, we want to raise kind, productive citizens, but of
course we want to.
We want them to like us andlove us, and you know, and when
they fly the coop, we still wantthem to want to come back and
visit with us and be part of ourlives.
And I think one more thing Iwant to touch on that is tied
exactly to this that you talk alot about being proactive
(26:55):
instead of reactive, and so thisis a perfect example of that.
Right, what other situations inour life Because so much of our
life is reactive that and wehave young kids and we're just
(27:15):
trying to keep them alive everyday.
We're in this fight or flightmode all the time, so we're
always reactive to things.
How can we flip that so that wecan respond in a more conscious
manner, in a proactive way, tocertain situations.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Yeah, elizabeth, you're awesome.
I guess maybe the first thingthat I would say.
And then I would actually sayand this is going to sound super
cliche, so just smack me to theside of the head but I would
just say, honestly, you'reprobably more proactive than you
(27:48):
think.
I think we do a lot of stuffproactively.
I know what you're talkingabout and I agree with you.
I think, specifically in myprivate practice realistically I
mean realistically speakinglike I usually see people in
reaction, right, like by thetime they reach my office,
(28:08):
there's pain, right, there's aconsiderable amount of suffering
that's happening before theyeven enter my office.
It's rare, right, that I have aclient that comes to see me and
say like, hey, yuri, I'm doingreally good, I want to make sure
that I keep doing really good.
So can we talk about somepositive psychology and growth
mindset strategies that willhelp me to just like slay this
(28:30):
life?
And I would be like, absolutely, but usually by the time people
come to see me, yeah, theirmarriage is on the rocks,
they're depressed, they're sad,they're anxious, their panic has
risen to a level that they'renot functioning well, right, and
so, and I think that that'sokay too right, that's kind of
that medical model of psychology.
But when we're talking about iskind of this positive
(28:52):
psychology movement, and I won'tbore you with kind of the
details, but I really enjoy thiskind of paradigm shift that's
actually happening in the worldof psychology right now, and it
has been now for about I don'tknow 40 or 50 years, whereas for
the longest time psychology andI promise this is going to tie
into your question, I promiseI'm coming back to it but for
(29:15):
the longest time psychology hasbeen focused on the negative
side of human nature, really ourdysfunction, right?
I mean, psychologists have nowwritten five volumes of the
Diagnostic Statistical Manualthat literally lists, like all
of the possible disorders thatwe can have as humans, right All
(29:37):
the way from major depressivedisorders to post-traumatic
stress, to anxiety-relateddisorders, personality disorders
, et cetera.
And what the field of positivepsychology has brought right is,
instead of this passive andreactive model right to mental
health, right to mental wellnessor mental fitness, right, where
(30:00):
we kind of just wait fordepression to hit or suicidal
ideation to hit or when a kid isself-harming, and then we do
something.
What the field of positivepsychology has done is the field
of positive psychology isfocused on our joy, right, our
happiness on living a lifefilled with meaning and purpose
(30:23):
and achievement, right, becauseit's one thing in my mind to
help someone feel less depressed, which is good, and it's
another to help someone feeljoyous and to feel like they're.
Help someone feel joyous, yeah,like, and to feel like they're
(30:43):
living deep and sucking themarrow of life, right, that's,
that's another thing, right.
And on this continuum, likenegative, 10, suicidally
depressed, 10 ecstatically happy, I think psychology has been
mostly focused on relievingsuffering and now has taken a
really positive step towards,like that positive continuum,
and I think, for the most part,that side has been kind of
filled by, you know, philosophyor religious and spiritual
(31:07):
studies and things like that.
And I think psychology has kindof caught on and is now focused
on proactive measures, right, toenhance the happiness of adults
and kids and helping them tolive better lives as a way to
prevent some of this illness anddysfunction that happens, right
(31:31):
.
And so, as a parent once again,this is part of that uh, like,
parents, I, I love you, I carefor you, I'm absolutely certain
that you're doing more than yougive yourself credit for, like,
without a doubt, without a doubt.
But I would say, if I were tojust give you a suggestion, I
(31:54):
would say that the proactivitypart, the part that I think will
build your relationship, thatwill strengthen your child right
is add fun, is add kindness,add lots of love, add lots of
enjoyment.
Do what you can to encourageyour child to be engaged and
(32:19):
participate.
And I know that that's toughnow, right, because kids have
got this little thing right andI mean, and the special effects
in here are better than they areout there.
This is what my kids tell me,right?
It's like man the things lookbetter in here than they do out
there, and it is frustrating andwe've put that in their hands
(32:41):
and I'm actually quiteoptimistic that our children are
going to figure that out.
Like right now it's tough forthem and they're suffering some
of that from from them, right,whether it's just phones, uh, or
social media things we've.
We've now.
We now know that there's animpact that's happening, a
negative one, uh but I actuallybelieve that they're going to
find, they're going to find away to manage that Probably,
(33:02):
just you know, they're going tobe better than we are, without a
doubt, but it is going to be alittle bit tricky for them.
But that's what I would say.
I would say to you you're doingmore than you can, and then I
would say do what you can, leadwith the best of you, let the
best of you lead the rest of youis what I tell people all the
(33:24):
time as a parent, and trust thatprocess.
We're often afraid to do good orto be happier, or to reward or
to just have a positive thing,because our kids are struggling,
but those are the things thatwill save them in the long haul.
It's almost like we can'trestrict their diet for doing
(33:47):
bad behavior.
We can't do that right.
They got to eat, and I'm notjust talking about food.
We have to figure out a way forthem to socialize well, for
them to be engaged, for them toparticipate, for them to do
those kinds of things that willultimately create the emotional
and psychological muscle thatthey need to really just to
(34:10):
really be happier, and so andanyways, that's that process.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
That's the number one thing I think that most parents
would say that they want isjust for their children to be
happy, of course, of course.
Well, we are just about out oftime, but I do want to talk
quickly about School Pulse and,in case anybody listening is
interested in this, this is newto me, so just tell us a little
bit about School Pulse, what itis and what it does.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
I would love to.
Yeah, so I'll spare you thelong story.
Other than just, our goal is,one of the things that schools
and districts and even stateagencies are looking to address
in schools is, obviously, it'ssuicide prevention right, we
want to find a way to stopstudent suicide, right?
(34:55):
There's far too much of that.
There's too much violence inschools.
There's a lot of apathyhappening in schools as well,
and so one of the things thatschools are attempting to do
right is to provide, hopefullyin a proactive way, which is
really what we bring.
I find that most schools arereactive, right.
(35:18):
They're kind of almostpassively waiting for crisis to
happen and then somethinghappens and they react.
And our goal, what School Pulsedoes, is we provide the absolute
best, most benign content tothese incredible students in the
form of videos and cool lessons, and we actually have a texting
(35:40):
campaign, which is awesome.
So, when students opt in totext, we actually text them
twice a week.
We deliver our amazing videosto them on Tuesday that provide
the best positive psychology,growth, mind, cognitive
strategies directly to them overphone, and then, whenever
students wish to engage or needa little support or want to tell
(36:00):
us about how wonderful theirlife is they can actually text,
and we have a live team ofindividuals that actually
connect with these amazingstudents, a whole team of people
that just support.
We're like we're changing liveslike it's.
It's fabulous, it's innovative,it's incredible.
Nobody else does what we dothat way.
And then, in addition to that,we have a lot of tools for
parents.
We have an email campaign thatgoes out once a week to parents,
(36:22):
where we deliver those samevideos to them so that they can
then watch or participate, orwatch themselves or share with
their teens.
And then we have some reallyawesome tools as well that
schools use within the schoolthemselves.
Schools have to deal with lotsof disciplinary issues and
student success issues, and wehave provided them with the
(36:45):
biggest and most comprehensivelibrary, extraordinary content
that they share with students,all with the hope of proactively
preventing suicide, improvingmental health, improving mental
fitness and improving studentsuccess.
And we just want to do it right.
We don't want to wait forcrisis.
We don't want to be just like afire extinguisher on the wall
(37:07):
that, when crisis happens, webreak the glass and we, right,
we want to feed right.
We want to give them somethingthat will inspire them, that
will motivate them, and that,little by little, can instill
some of the strategies, some ofthe perspective right that will
(37:27):
transform their life.
I tell kids all the time yourpsychology is everything right.
The way that you interpret theevents in your life matters more
than the events themselves.
Your life matters more than theevents themselves.
And so if we can change thatperspective, if we can provide a
(37:50):
better paradigm, then we canbetter deal with suffering and
absolutely enhance our joy, ourmeaning, our purpose, our
relationships, which is kind ofwhat we want.
Anyways, long story short,that's a little bit of what
School Post does with schools,and we contract with schools and
districts and even stateagencies to provide that to
students.
It's awesome.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
That's great.
I love it.
I love this whole idea of beingproactive, because everything
you're saying makes so muchsense.
We wait for the bad to happenand then try to fix it instead
of preventing it to begin with,because we're overwhelmed, right
, and you said it, Elizabethright?
Speaker 2 (38:25):
I mean as a parent, we're overwhelmed and, without a
doubt, schools are in that sameplace, right?
They're like please don't giveme one more thing to do, because
they're already underfunded andunderserved, right?
It's tough.
So, anyways, I'll stop.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
No, this was really great.
I appreciate all your time andif anybody listening is
interested in checking out someof the tools, resources and
school posts, we'll make sure wehave all the links to that
posted right below this.
If you're watching the video,it'll be right there.
Or if you're listening to it,all the links will be right
there for you, yuri.
Again, we appreciate your timeand everything you're doing to
(39:03):
benefit our kids and teens.
We can't do enough of that.
So thank you for what you'redoing.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Absolutely.
What a pleasure to be here,Elizabeth.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Thanks for listening.
Welcome back to Speak Out.
Stand Out.
I'm Elizabeth Green, andtoday's guest is Yuri Mello.
Yuri is a licensed clinicalsocial worker and author and the
proud father of five.
He is also a co-founder ofsomething called School Pulse,
which is a nationwide studentsupport service that delivers
positivity, optimism and growthmindset tools to students,
(00:20):
parents and faculty via text andemail, and who doesn't need
some positivity added to theirday?
Yuri, we're glad to have youhere today.
Thanks for being here.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Elizabeth, I am hyped .
Let's go for it.
I really appreciate the invite.
It's good to be here and let'ssee where we go.
Like wherever we go, I promiseit's going to be good, it's
going to be optimistic andhopefully we're going to drop
some good tools for everybody,including ourselves, right?
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Yes, that is the goal .
I love it.
I always learn something new inthese podcast recordings, so
it's always beneficial for me aswell.
So, okay, let's start with Yuri.
When we were growing up, mentalhealth not something people
focused on, especially when itcame to kids and teens.
How did it come about that thisis your focus in life?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
You know, honestly probably not purposefully I was
one of those people.
I was one of those adolescentsthat probably didn't know what
they wanted to do and really noidea of what was going to happen
.
I'm the youngest of three and Ifeel like maybe the youngest
children are a little bit likethat.
They're a little bitdirectionless, directionist,
directionist, directionist,whatever I don't even know what
that is.
But um, and so I actually whenI first went to school, I mean
(01:32):
and I grew up in Portugal andmaybe we'll go into that, and I
think when you talk about likemental health and the stigma, or
even just not really talkedabout, I would say that, uh,
portugal is, is probably evenmore that way.
It's just not something that'sreally addressed.
I don't even know if today Ifeel like people try to be
(01:52):
pretty like computer informationsystems, because my older
brother was doing that, didn'treally like that, did have a
really cool psychology teacherthat I think kind of had an
(02:13):
impact on my life a little bit.
And then after that I actuallykind of had a period where I did
some volunteer service for acouple of years, for a couple of
years and honestly, that wasreally the first time where I
thought.
You know, I kind of I do wellwith people Like I.
Just I like them, like theirstrange behavior or crazy
(02:37):
whatever it is like it doesn'tscare me, I'm not bothered by it
.
And so when I began my bachelorlevel and then on to my master's
, I decided to go intopsychology and it was just a
good fit for me, maybe becauseit was a little bit easier, I
don't know, it's kind of one ofthose soft sciences, right, but
(02:57):
I really just enjoyed it and, tobe super honest with you, I'm
grateful I can totally look backand see myself doing a variety
of other things that I probablywould enjoy just as much.
But psychology has been apretty positive field for me.
I think it's fascinating.
I love to meet people.
For the past 20 years I'vespent a lot of time, I mean just
(03:20):
face to face, right Eyeball toeyeball, with tens of thousands
of people and honestly I love it.
Like it's interesting.
It never gets old for me.
And so, and then over the pastseven years, you know I've
developed this other littleprogram that we may touch on
that, but once again it's thesame thing.
Like I'm trying to just createthis optimistic and positive
(03:45):
perspective and give people somegoggles right, a perspective, I
think, that allow them tointerpret the events in their
lives in a little bit of abetter way, which I believe can
ultimately impact them not justin the short but in the long
term as well.
And so, anyways, maybe we'lltouch on those.
But yeah, I had no idea thatthis is what I wanted to do.
(04:05):
Uh, I mean I'm, I'm going to be50 this year.
I mean it could change at anymoment, like I'm like a wild
card, who knows?
Speaker 1 (04:15):
I understand that career paths are always, ever,
ever moving and fluid, right.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Well, you're talking about.
You enjoy learning about peopleand you want to spread
positivity.
How does this boil down to usas parents?
And building those skills inour kids how does that connect?
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Okay, so I've got five kiddos and I have to, I
mean, shout out, right, and I'mparticularly biased, of course,
but really just have somephenomenal kids whom I have
learned from from, still amlearning from, and who make my
life better.
And I realized that that's noteverybody's experience, Right,
and I don't necessarily like say, well, that's because I was a
(04:53):
good dad, or I don't honestlyunderstand, like I, I seriously
don't like when I'm thinkinglike big, like you know whether
you know physical, biological,spiritual, like I don't know why
things have turned out the waythat they are, like I don't
fully understand that, but I'mjust incredibly grateful for my
(05:17):
kids, like I just feel gratefulto be in their presence, I'm
excited when I see them, and soI will say this like I think
whenever I talk to parents and Italked to a lot of parents,
right, and a lot of timesparents just come in and they'll
bring me their kids and kind ofdo what I call drive by therapy
, right, they'll kind of show upand kick their kid into my
(05:38):
office and like here, fix them.
And and actually one of thefirst things that I'll tell
parents whenever I talk to themon the phone is make sure that
if you do send your kid totherapy which is good, and I
hope that they have a fabulousexperience but just make sure
that you throw yourself into themix, like be part of that
process, don't just send the kidin, just be a little bit more
(06:00):
humble and throw yourself intothe process and say, hey, look,
I'm sure I'm not doing thingsright myself.
And I think when you putyourself in that place alongside
of your kid, I think you mightactually get a better outcome
with them.
Um, because I I think theywon't see them.
I think they'll see the processin a less bitter way, and I
(06:25):
think sometimes bitterness cancause a lot of resistance, right
, and I think, even as parents,right, I think we provoke the
heck out of our kids sometimes,just the way we do things, the
way we say things, and it'snormal, like it is what it is.
But I think one of our goalstoday, or is how do we invite
(06:47):
something different from ourchildren?
Right, I sometimes use, oh,those balloons.
I think one of the, I think oneof the things that I'll these
two kinds of words that I usewith people all the time is
inviting and provoking, and Ithink that there's a lot of
things that we can do as parentsthat invite better outcomes,
(07:09):
and there's a lot of things thatwe do as parents that provoke
poor outcomes, and so today,maybe we can even talk a little
bit about those, and because Iwould love to be a help not just
to your lovely parents, butalso to the teens themselves.
Anyways, that was probably morethan you wanted to know.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
No, I like where this is going.
I have never heard of itphrased like that inviting
outcomes and provoking outcomesand when you said that, my
immediate thought was there arecertain things my own mother
does that provokes outcomes inme, unintentionally.
That was my first thought andthen I thought, oh wait, I guess
I do this to my kids too, solet's talk.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Let's talk about that , like how we do, like in a lot
of times, right, I mean it canbe intentional, right, but but I
feel like so much of ourbehavior and this isn't to, you
know, give people arationalization or justification
for what they do.
But I feel like ignorance islike the human condition.
(08:12):
And I say ignorance not as instupidity or anything silly like
that, but I mean ignorance asin like we just don't know.
We just don't know, we don'tknow better.
We're doing the best that wecan, we're trying to do the best
that we can.
We're often like emotionallyand psychologically overwhelmed.
They're just overwhelmed withlife.
I feel like that's my conditionright now.
To be honest, elizabeth is justa state of overwhelm, right With
(08:35):
just like my profession, myinvolvement, obviously, with,
like my kids, their activities,my involvement in my community
with church, et cetera, theiractivities, my involvement in my
community with church, etc.
And there is just an immenseoverwhelm and sometimes there's
almost this little pit in mystomach that I can't quite shake
.
I'm probably just being alittle more personal here.
(08:56):
And so, as a result, right thenwe have these precious,
phenomenal children that we getto raise right and we get to
teach and we get to educate andthey get to be a part of our
lives, uh and, and they're inthat massive state of ignorance
themselves, right, they're justtrying to figure things out, and
(09:18):
I think that there's a lot thatwe can do for them.
And I'll give you one quicktool, um, even for your parents,
and I'll give you one quicktool even for your parents, and
I'll actually it's not mine,it's one that I'll kind of steal
from John Gottman, who is kindof a really well known kind of
marriage researcher.
But he spent a lot of timetalking about ratios and kind of
(09:39):
making sure that you'remanaging your ratios and your
manage.
And I've always kind of justflipped that to managing your
ratios with your children, andI've always kind of just flipped
that to managing your ratioswith your children.
And let me just explain thatreally quickly.
So ratio just means kind of apercentage right, and so if you
think about in a marriage, hewould describe it as just make
sure that you have threepositive interactions with your
(10:00):
spouse compared to every onenegative, right.
And the main idea here was, hesaid, if you want to have a good
relationship with your spouse,if you want to have a good
marriage, right, if you want tohave a good relationship with
your partner, right, make surethat your ratios are always on
the positive right.
But realistically it was reallymore than three to one, it was
more like five or 10, or 15 toone.
(10:23):
And so, as a parent, what Iwould say to you is job number
one or somewhere down that line.
Right Is is make sure that theratios in your relationship with
your kids are always on thepositive right.
A lot of times, by the time thatparents bring kids into therapy
with me, I feel like theirratios are on the negative right
(10:47):
.
They have more negativeinteractions with their kid than
positive ones, and wheneverthat happens, number one, it's
miserable, right.
I mean, it's suffering for theboth of them, but it's difficult
to build right.
It's difficult to build whenour ratios are like that.
And I don't know exactly whythere has to be, you know why,
(11:09):
the justice of three to one orfive to one or 10 to one or 20
to one, why that happens?
I would guess, if I had toguess really quickly as to why
there has to be such adifference right, such a
difference right is because wein our lovely craniums, right,
we have this wonderfulsurvivalistic organ up there
(11:30):
called brain, and that's exactlywhat it is.
It's a survivalistic organ and,as a result, I think it
remembers pain and sufferingbetter than it does joy and
happiness, in part, becausethat's what protects this
organism right.
And so the brain just rememberspain, it remembers suffering,
it remembers those things, andthat's why we almost have to, in
(11:55):
a way, disproportionately,provide more positive engagement
, more positive interactionswith our children than negative
ones, more positive interactionswith our children than negative
ones.
Another one that I always tellparents is is do whatever you
can in your power to start andend the day well, like just, and
you know how it is right.
I mean when you, when you greetyour kids in the morning and
(12:17):
they're groggy and they're likeyou know, walking down the
stairs, you know, and you'relike, oh my gosh, how are you?
And they just like want tothrow up all over you because it
drives them absolutely crazy.
Um, but I actually kind of lovethat.
I, I kind of love theirsaltiness and their sassiness a
little bit, uh, but that's oneof the things that I'll always
say is make sure, start your dayWell with them, just be kind,
(12:40):
fun, humorous, nerdy, whateverword you want to do there and
then do what you can and itwon't always work this way, of
course, but do what you can tojust make peace at the end of
your day.
You know, make amends, own youknow silly stuff that you've
done as a parent as well.
I used to call these my littlekind of bedside chats with my
(13:03):
kids, kind of once things havekind of settled down and you
know, and maybe that day I'vesaid something and it went too
far or I was a little bit cruelor mean or whatever it was, and
I just remember some of theselittle chats that I would have
with my kids that I honestly alot of them.
I would just apologize, likeman, I'm really sorry.
(13:23):
Like today was a hard day.
I'm sorry that I said I'm sorrythat I honestly a lot of them.
I just apologize, like man, I'mreally sorry.
Like today was a hard day.
I'm sorry that I said I'm sorrythat I told you to shut up
whatever it was Right and uh,and then almost kind of always
in in this positive uh, likelet's, tomorrow's going to be a
better day, like let's, let'stry again tomorrow, you know,
and so I think that that wouldbe one of those tools that I
(13:43):
would say, especially if Trustthat process right, because we
can convince ourselves to notstay there right.
(14:10):
Well, I don't want to, like youknow, prolong his behavior or
give it a positive reinforcementfor being stupid or this or
that.
And what I would say to you isis realize that sometimes our
job as parents is a job ofpositioning, like we have to
position so that when ourchildren are ready to change,
(14:34):
they'll want to come to us.
And I think if we presentourselves as these kind of
hardcore, jerky punishing, wejust will not be those people.
We will not be those people.
Somebody else will, and that'sokay.
We realize that it takes avillage.
(14:55):
I love that, but, man, I wouldreally love to be whenever my
kids, whether they're doing goodor not so good, I would love to
be considered as one of thosetop three people that they would
say like I can go to my dad,like and I'm not, you know,
(15:16):
going to be ridiculed, or I toldyou so, or like I'm just going
to be cared for and loved andand he's going to hear me out
and hopefully, with him we canmaybe work through a problem Uh,
and I'm not going to feel, youknow, embarrassed or ashamed.
So that's kind of my goal.
It's definitely what Idefinitely want to play the long
ball, and I would encourageparents to do the same.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
I think, yeah, I think that's really important
for all of us.
I think we all want that forour relationships with our kids,
and one of you touched on acouple of things.
You talked about just feelingso overwhelmed and I think
you're speaking exactly to ouraudience.
I don't know a parent out therein today's day and age that
doesn't feel overwhelmed amajority of the time.
And then you talked aboutpositive and negative reactions
(16:02):
and these ratios, or notreactions, but actions.
What was the word you usedPositive and negative?
Oh, like ratios, Like a ratioyes, yeah, negative, oh like
ratios, like a ratio, yes, butum, so when I'm thinking about
my own interactions with my 16year old I it's sometimes I have
had to make myself think justbecause I don't think this is a
(16:24):
negative interaction, likesaying, hey, bud, it's time to
empty the dishwasher.
That is a negative interactionand I think what do you?
I mean, we have to think likethat too, right?
Sometimes we're saying thingsthat are, even if it's mundane,
it still can lean on thenegative side for them, and
we're not.
When you're talking aboutpositive versus negative, you're
(16:45):
not just talking about whenwe're like at each other you
know right, we're just talkingabout everyday conversations or
moments, right?
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Oh yeah.
Yeah, I'm not talking about areally specific thing.
I'm just saying, whether it's aday-to-day conversation,
whether it's a text, whetherit's a reminder, I realize that
we're still parents.
There are rules, there arethings that we would like to
have happen in our home.
We have positive and goodexpectations.
(17:15):
Kids want to do what they wantto do, right, the things that
you and I value, elizabeth,right, that we would put on our
top five of like this matters,right?
I mean, they're like 10, 11, 12, 15.
They might make the top 20 forkids, but they're just not at
the top, right, and so, as aresult, we're going to have a
lot of this kind of leveragingconversation.
(17:38):
Right, most kids do not want toempty the trash, they do not
want to empty the dishwasher.
They do not want to do that.
They want to do their thing,what they enjoy, what they have
at that top.
You know whether that's friends,fun, freedom, whatever it is.
And ours are just a little bitdifferent.
In fact, this is another littletool that I'll sometimes talk
to parents about, and I mightnot be able to remember all of
(18:01):
them, but whenever I talk aboutkind of figuring out what our
expectations are, the thingsthat we prioritize versus our
kids.
And I will say, parents usuallyprioritize responsibility,
right, and kids will prioritizefreedom, right, we will
prioritize safety.
They prioritize fun, weprioritize family time.
(18:23):
They prioritize friends, right,we prioritize like, think of
the long term, think of thefuture.
They're thinking like now,right, right, this instant right
.
And so, as a result, like we'rekind of, you know, tug of
warring between these two.
But the reality is and this isnot just what I tell parents,
(18:44):
this, but I also tell teens thisright is is it's the
realization that really bothsides are wonderful.
Like, of course, I want to beresponsible, but, man, I love my
freedom, right, I love my timewith my family, but I really
enjoy some time with my friendstoo, like I really enjoy the
future, but like I got to behappy now period, like I love.
(19:05):
And another one that is also isparents really want open
communication and adolescentsand teens are really coming into
privacy.
They love their privacy, right,and so these become areas of
conflict all the time.
And if we can help parents torealize that, look, all of these
are good, right, these are goodthings that you should balance
(19:28):
in your own life, right, andsometimes what I tell teens is
look, I just need you to realizethat parents are really wanting
this and if I can get you togive a little bit of this,
you're going to get more of this, Right, and so because that's
just how it works.
But sometimes it's helpful forparents and teens to kind of
(19:48):
realize, right where they are,like, the expectations that they
have, conscious or unconscious,that certainly end up creating
a lot of that conflict.
And I think if parents, if wecan learn to be trusting and
obviously like to be parents andto be, you know, we want to be
(20:10):
able to discipline and to teachand to hold accountable and all
of those things.
We want to be able todiscipline and to teach and to
hold accountable and all ofthose things.
But before we do that, if youcan think of Abraham Maslow's
hierarchy of needs and I feellike everybody knows that, with
safety and shelter at the bottomand then belonging, et cetera,
(20:31):
all the way up to, like,self-actualization at the top,
or even self-transcendence,which he added on later but if
you can think of that almostlike if we could change some of
those words a little bit andapply that same kind of
hierarchy of needs to parentingor to your relationship with
(20:51):
your children, and I wouldabsolutely put at the bottom
safety.
And I don't mean just safety asin, like you know, like
physical violence or verbal.
I mean safety as in, yeah, likeyour kids feel like, hey, my
dad's got my back, orElizabeth's got my back, my
mom's got my back, like this isa safe place for me to go, and
(21:14):
kids are pretty sensitive tothat, I'll be honest.
And so for me, my littlehierarchy of needs for parents
is do everything in your powerto create that safety foundation
between you and your child andyour relationship, because
that's I think that it'spowerful there.
I think that that'sfoundational for a relationship
(21:36):
to progress is it has to feelsafe.
There I would put the next oneright is trust and loyalty, the
next one love, kindness and fun,and then only after that I
would put that kind ofaccountability and discipline
right.
And so, in a sense, we want tobuild those lower, like I guess
(21:57):
what I would call therelationship layers, right
Before we jump into those top,like accountability, discipline
ones.
And, once again, sometimes bythe time I get to see kids,
their pyramid is upside down,right.
Parents are spending all of thetime holding accountable,
(22:17):
disciplining all of those things, and very little time on that,
and by then the relationship isnot in a good space.
And so that's another one thatif I could just suggest to
parents is keep thoserelationship rungs right just
nicelyungs right, just nicelyfilled, right.
(22:37):
It's almost like, you know,putting money in the bank
account, like that's the bankaccount, so that when we have
those challenging conversationsat the top, we're more likely to
have a positive outcome, we'remore likely to be listened to,
because, honestly, I don't wantto just talk to be listened to,
I don't want to just say stuffto be heard, like when I deliver
(22:57):
something to my children I wantto do, I want to try to do it
in a way where it will beeffective, right, and that's
maybe where that kind ofinvitation and provoking
language comes from.
Right Is is we can sometimes.
I'll give you an example.
So let's say my, you know, mychild comes in, he's got a
curfew at midnight or whatever,and he comes in and it's like
(23:19):
1215 or 1220 or whatever, it isright.
And I could begin thatconversation with him with
something like this Cole, my 17year old right now, I said, cole
, you're always late.
Like, where were you tonight,right, and my tone, you know my
(23:40):
ambush, kind of behavior likethat is not going to trigger,
most likely, a very positiveresponse on his end.
What will happen on his end ishe'll immediately go, he's going
to close up, right.
He's either going to do one oftwo things, right he's either
going to fight with me or he'sjust going to be quiet and close
(24:02):
up, right.
And so what I would suggest toyou is, instead of provoking
resistance, right, instead ofprovoking defensiveness,
provoking resistance rightInstead of provoking
defensiveness.
And, by the way, sometimes yourchildren will be defensive
without you provoking them.
(24:22):
Just let it be.
Let me be clear.
But but I think a lot of timeswe end up provoking that, right,
we ambush them with ourlanguage, we kind of machine gun
attack them.
You know you did this and thatand the last time, and you know,
and how can you expect it to doright?
And our kids are just like, andit's, it's difficult, it would
be challenging for us as adultsto go through an onslaught like
(24:47):
that and to be receptive and tobe open and to be willing for
our heart and mind to be soft,right.
And so, once again, for me, mygoal isn't just to lecture or to
say, or I gotta.
My goal, just as it is intherapy with I'm with
individuals, like I want todeliver information that's most
likely to be absorbed, that'smost likely to be listened to,
(25:12):
and so I try to present right Ina way that's gentle, in a way
that's kind, like I'm interestedin them, like hey, how was your
night?
Who were you with?
Right, tell me about this.
I saw on, you know, like thephone, that you were at this
house.
How are they doing?
(25:33):
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,right.
And then I think maybe I wouldcome Cole, I'm noticing a
pattern here.
You're frequently now coming alittle bit later.
Each time You're not telling us, you're not answering the phone
, you're not answering our texts, whatever it is right.
And then I think I address thatlike hey, can we work on that
(25:56):
this next time?
Like, and then we want to.
You know, it's almost like the,you know what do they call it?
Like this is silly andinappropriate, but like the crap
sandwich, right.
It's like start good, then givethat feedback and then end good
, right, yeah, and I think thatthat works with our kids.
Like, just just invite, invite,an open mind, invite an open
(26:19):
heart and you're going to getbetter outcomes in the short
term, and I think you're goingto promote that kind of
foundational relationship thatI'm talking about, where you're
going to get better outcomes inthe longterm as well.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
But we all want.
You know, we want to raise kind, productive citizens, but of
course we want to.
We want them to like us andlove us, and you know, and when
they fly the coop, we still wantthem to want to come back and
visit with us and be part of ourlives.
And I think one more thing Iwant to touch on that is tied
exactly to this that you talk alot about being proactive
(26:55):
instead of reactive, and so thisis a perfect example of that.
Right, what other situations inour life Because so much of our
life is reactive that and wehave young kids and we're just
(27:15):
trying to keep them alive everyday.
We're in this fight or flightmode all the time, so we're
always reactive to things.
How can we flip that so that wecan respond in a more conscious
manner, in a proactive way, tocertain situations.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Yeah, elizabeth, you're awesome.
I guess maybe the first thingthat I would say.
And then I would actually sayand this is going to sound super
cliche, so just smack me to theside of the head but I would
just say, honestly, you'reprobably more proactive than you
(27:48):
think.
I think we do a lot of stuffproactively.
I know what you're talkingabout and I agree with you.
I think, specifically in myprivate practice realistically I
mean realistically speakinglike I usually see people in
reaction, right, like by thetime they reach my office,
(28:08):
there's pain, right, there's aconsiderable amount of suffering
that's happening before theyeven enter my office.
It's rare, right, that I have aclient that comes to see me and
say like, hey, yuri, I'm doingreally good, I want to make sure
that I keep doing really good.
So can we talk about somepositive psychology and growth
mindset strategies that willhelp me to just like slay this
(28:30):
life?
And I would be like, absolutely, but usually by the time people
come to see me, yeah, theirmarriage is on the rocks,
they're depressed, they're sad,they're anxious, their panic has
risen to a level that they'renot functioning well, right, and
so, and I think that that'sokay too right, that's kind of
that medical model of psychology.
But when we're talking about iskind of this positive
(28:52):
psychology movement, and I won'tbore you with kind of the
details, but I really enjoy thiskind of paradigm shift that's
actually happening in the worldof psychology right now, and it
has been now for about I don'tknow 40 or 50 years, whereas for
the longest time psychology andI promise this is going to tie
into your question, I promiseI'm coming back to it but for
(29:15):
the longest time psychology hasbeen focused on the negative
side of human nature, really ourdysfunction, right?
I mean, psychologists have nowwritten five volumes of the
Diagnostic Statistical Manualthat literally lists, like all
of the possible disorders thatwe can have as humans, right All
(29:37):
the way from major depressivedisorders to post-traumatic
stress, to anxiety-relateddisorders, personality disorders
, et cetera.
And what the field of positivepsychology has brought right is,
instead of this passive andreactive model right to mental
health, right to mental wellnessor mental fitness, right, where
(30:00):
we kind of just wait fordepression to hit or suicidal
ideation to hit or when a kid isself-harming, and then we do
something.
What the field of positivepsychology has done is the field
of positive psychology isfocused on our joy, right, our
happiness on living a lifefilled with meaning and purpose
(30:23):
and achievement, right, becauseit's one thing in my mind to
help someone feel less depressed, which is good, and it's
another to help someone feeljoyous and to feel like they're.
Help someone feel joyous, yeah,like, and to feel like they're
(30:43):
living deep and sucking themarrow of life, right, that's,
that's another thing, right.
And on this continuum, likenegative, 10, suicidally
depressed, 10 ecstatically happy, I think psychology has been
mostly focused on relievingsuffering and now has taken a
really positive step towards,like that positive continuum,
and I think, for the most part,that side has been kind of
filled by, you know, philosophyor religious and spiritual
(31:07):
studies and things like that.
And I think psychology has kindof caught on and is now focused
on proactive measures, right, toenhance the happiness of adults
and kids and helping them tolive better lives as a way to
prevent some of this illness anddysfunction that happens, right
(31:31):
.
And so, as a parent once again,this is part of that uh, like,
parents, I, I love you, I carefor you, I'm absolutely certain
that you're doing more than yougive yourself credit for, like,
without a doubt, without a doubt.
But I would say, if I were tojust give you a suggestion, I
(31:54):
would say that the proactivitypart, the part that I think will
build your relationship, thatwill strengthen your child right
is add fun, is add kindness,add lots of love, add lots of
enjoyment.
Do what you can to encourageyour child to be engaged and
(32:19):
participate.
And I know that that's toughnow, right, because kids have
got this little thing right andI mean, and the special effects
in here are better than they areout there.
This is what my kids tell me,right?
It's like man the things lookbetter in here than they do out
there, and it is frustrating andwe've put that in their hands
(32:41):
and I'm actually quiteoptimistic that our children are
going to figure that out.
Like right now it's tough forthem and they're suffering some
of that from from them, right,whether it's just phones, uh, or
social media things we've.
We've now.
We now know that there's animpact that's happening, a
negative one, uh but I actuallybelieve that they're going to
find, they're going to find away to manage that Probably,
(33:02):
just you know, they're going tobe better than we are, without a
doubt, but it is going to be alittle bit tricky for them.
But that's what I would say.
I would say to you you're doingmore than you can, and then I
would say do what you can, leadwith the best of you, let the
best of you lead the rest of youis what I tell people all the
(33:24):
time as a parent, and trust thatprocess.
We're often afraid to do good orto be happier, or to reward or
to just have a positive thing,because our kids are struggling,
but those are the things thatwill save them in the long haul.
It's almost like we can'trestrict their diet for doing
(33:47):
bad behavior.
We can't do that right.
They got to eat, and I'm notjust talking about food.
We have to figure out a way forthem to socialize well, for
them to be engaged, for them toparticipate, for them to do
those kinds of things that willultimately create the emotional
and psychological muscle thatthey need to really just to
(34:10):
really be happier, and so andanyways, that's that process.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
That's the number one thing I think that most parents
would say that they want isjust for their children to be
happy, of course, of course.
Well, we are just about out oftime, but I do want to talk
quickly about School Pulse and,in case anybody listening is
interested in this, this is newto me, so just tell us a little
bit about School Pulse, what itis and what it does.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
I would love to.
Yeah, so I'll spare you thelong story.
Other than just, our goal is,one of the things that schools
and districts and even stateagencies are looking to address
in schools is, obviously, it'ssuicide prevention right, we
want to find a way to stopstudent suicide, right?
(34:55):
There's far too much of that.
There's too much violence inschools.
There's a lot of apathyhappening in schools as well,
and so one of the things thatschools are attempting to do
right is to provide, hopefullyin a proactive way, which is
really what we bring.
I find that most schools arereactive, right.
(35:18):
They're kind of almostpassively waiting for crisis to
happen and then somethinghappens and they react.
And our goal, what School Pulsedoes, is we provide the absolute
best, most benign content tothese incredible students in the
form of videos and cool lessons, and we actually have a texting
(35:40):
campaign, which is awesome.
So, when students opt in totext, we actually text them
twice a week.
We deliver our amazing videosto them on Tuesday that provide
the best positive psychology,growth, mind, cognitive
strategies directly to them overphone, and then, whenever
students wish to engage or needa little support or want to tell
(36:00):
us about how wonderful theirlife is they can actually text,
and we have a live team ofindividuals that actually
connect with these amazingstudents, a whole team of people
that just support.
We're like we're changing liveslike it's.
It's fabulous, it's innovative,it's incredible.
Nobody else does what we dothat way.
And then, in addition to that,we have a lot of tools for
parents.
We have an email campaign thatgoes out once a week to parents,
(36:22):
where we deliver those samevideos to them so that they can
then watch or participate, orwatch themselves or share with
their teens.
And then we have some reallyawesome tools as well that
schools use within the schoolthemselves.
Schools have to deal with lotsof disciplinary issues and
student success issues, and wehave provided them with the
(36:45):
biggest and most comprehensivelibrary, extraordinary content
that they share with students,all with the hope of proactively
preventing suicide, improvingmental health, improving mental
fitness and improving studentsuccess.
And we just want to do it right.
We don't want to wait forcrisis.
We don't want to be just like afire extinguisher on the wall
(37:07):
that, when crisis happens, webreak the glass and we, right,
we want to feed right.
We want to give them somethingthat will inspire them, that
will motivate them, and that,little by little, can instill
some of the strategies, some ofthe perspective right that will
(37:27):
transform their life.
I tell kids all the time yourpsychology is everything right.
The way that you interpret theevents in your life matters more
than the events themselves.
Your life matters more than theevents themselves.
And so if we can change thatperspective, if we can provide a
(37:50):
better paradigm, then we canbetter deal with suffering and
absolutely enhance our joy, ourmeaning, our purpose, our
relationships, which is kind ofwhat we want.
Anyways, long story short,that's a little bit of what
School Post does with schools,and we contract with schools and
districts and even stateagencies to provide that to
students.
It's awesome.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
That's great.
I love it.
I love this whole idea of beingproactive, because everything
you're saying makes so muchsense.
We wait for the bad to happenand then try to fix it instead
of preventing it to begin with,because we're overwhelmed, right
, and you said it, Elizabethright?
Speaker 2 (38:25):
I mean as a parent, we're overwhelmed and, without a
doubt, schools are in that sameplace, right?
They're like please don't giveme one more thing to do, because
they're already underfunded andunderserved, right?
It's tough.
So, anyways, I'll stop.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
No, this was really great.
I appreciate all your time andif anybody listening is
interested in checking out someof the tools, resources and
school posts, we'll make sure wehave all the links to that
posted right below this.
If you're watching the video,it'll be right there.
Or if you're listening to it,all the links will be right
there for you, yuri.
Again, we appreciate your timeand everything you're doing to
(39:03):
benefit our kids and teens.
We can't do enough of that.
So thank you for what you'redoing.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Absolutely.
What a pleasure to be here,Elizabeth.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Thanks for listening.
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