Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to the
Speaking of Women's Health
podcast.
I'm your host, dr Holly Thacker, and I am the Executive
Director of National Speaking ofWomen's Health, and I'm back in
the Sunflower House for a newepisode of this podcast and
(00:24):
we're in season three, and I amgoing to talk about omega fats
Three, six and nine.
One of our current first yearwomen's health fellows, dr
Nayoung Sung, and one of myformer fellows who's graduated,
(00:45):
gone on and gotten additionaltraining in functional medicine,
dr Sobia Khan, and she's beenon the podcast for prior seasons
and she's a certifiedfunctional medicine clinician in
our Center for SpecializedWomen's Health.
They both wrote a column at thebeginning of 2025 on omega
(01:07):
fatty acids and this is such animportant topic that's finally
getting a little bit moreattention, and when I check so
many of my patients' ratios, I'mgetting abnormal results, and
so it's great to have resourceson our speakingofwomenshealthcom
website to direct people whoare more interested in getting
(01:31):
more information about how theycan have a much healthier fat
balance.
So I'm going to take someinformation from their column,
as well as other informationthat I have been looking at and
examining and studying, and Ifound out some new interesting
facts that I think you're goingto be very interested in hearing
(01:54):
about.
So omega fatty acids they'redefinitely essential for health
and wellness, but for many ofthese so-called seed oils
there's an unnatural extractionprocess.
So, unlike some of the naturaloils like olive oil and coconut
(02:15):
oil, which can be extractedthrough pressing, seed, oils
such as soybean oil, corn oil,cottonseed, safflower, canola
require unnatural methods forextraction.
So I learned that canola oil isthe name for Canadian rapeseed
(02:41):
oil, because most canola oil orrapeseed oil is actually made in
Canada and they export about90% of this manufactured
unnatural oil actually, and thisundergoes the processes include
(03:03):
high heat and chemical solventslike petroleum, petroleum
leading to oxidation and theformation of trans fats before
they even get to your kitchen.
So industrial seed oils arereally a very relative recent
(03:24):
addition to our diet, explodingin consumption from essentially
zero in the early 1900s to 70pounds per year per person, and
this certainly corresponds to asurge in chronic health issues.
(03:48):
Now, certainly correlation doesnot mean causation.
I talk about how in the 1950sthere were a lot of telephone
polls put up.
Also there was an increase inlung cancer.
Well, it wasn't from thetelephone polls, it was related
in large part to cigarettesmoking.
So again, correlation is notcausation, but we've certainly
(04:12):
had a huge burden of increase inchronic diseases in adults and
in children.
And as part of our mission tobe strong and be healthy and be
in charge, we really want toempower people with information.
So, omega-6 and inflammation Nowour body does not make omega-3
(04:35):
fats like in fish, fish, fishfats or omega-6, and most of us
get plenty of omega-6.
And most of us get plenty ofomega-6.
And when I get lab tests thatlook at the ratios of all of
these fats, it should be about afour to one ratio and I find
that most people in my practice,with rare exception, have so
(04:59):
much more omega-6.
And vegetable oils are veryhigh in omega six, especially
linoleic acid, which is aprecursor to pro-inflammatory
econocenoids, and thesemolecules cause chronic
inflammation and can contributeto autoimmune diseases.
(05:19):
Autoimmune diseases are so muchmore common in women.
Autoimmune diseases are so muchmore common in women and we've
said that.
Oh, it's in part related toestrogen and testosterone, which
males have so much more ofadult males.
That helps tamp down the immunesystem.
But there's other environmentalfactors, not just the sexual
(05:40):
dimorphism changes.
So if you ingest too muchomega-6 without the balance of
omega-3, certainly there can beflares of health issues and
oxidative stress on the body andcancer.
Studies show that diets high invegetable oils, particularly
(06:01):
linoleic acid, lead to oxidativestress, dysfunction of your
mitochondria, which are thelittle powerhouses inside your
cell, and potentially geneticdamage.
So if you have oxidative stress, mitochondrial dysfunction and
genetic damage, you can see howcancer could be promoted, and
(06:23):
some studies reveal a severalfold increase in metastases and
diets high in these oils.
So not a day goes by in myclinic that I don't see a woman
concerned, some woman concerned,about her weight.
And the two substances I sayget rid of in your diet, which
also feed cancer and I tell thisto my new cancer patients is
(06:47):
get rid of sugar that fuels alot of abnormal cells, and get
rid of your seed oils.
Looking at mortality rates overa seven-year group, groups that
ingested high amounts ofvegetable oils had a 62% greater
(07:07):
all-cause mortality compared tothose with lower consumption
risk, and that seems to be asstrong or stronger than obesity,
which is also a huge problem,and heavy smoking, and both of
those conditions increase deathrates and cancer.
In terms of heart disease risk,the Minnesota Coronary
(07:29):
Experiment found thatparticipants who increased their
intake of corn oil andmargarine had an 86% higher
incidence of heart attacks.
I remember years ago as a youngperson, even before I went to
medical school, the push formargarine instead of butter, and
it just didn't seem right to me.
It just seemed so artificial.
(07:51):
Things like eggs were demonized, and eggs are rich in
cholesterol in terms of the yolk, and choline, which is good for
the brain, but is a veryhealthy food stuff.
Choline, which is good for thebrain, but is a very healthy
food stuff that's natural andthat is high in protein, low in
calories, good for the brain andnervous system.
(08:13):
Choline is helpful for musclecramps, which a lot of my
patients suffer from, and manyeggs, especially if they're eggs
that are made by chickens whoare fed omega-3s, can increase
omega-3s.
So I always buy the omega-3eggs because at least two of my
(08:34):
three sons were not big fisheaters and I was always
cognizant of trying to get moreomega-3s in their diet.
I wish I would have been alittle bit more persnickety
about reading labels on foods,because, as a busy working mom
and now a busy working Mimi withgrandchildren, I keep getting
(08:56):
more grandchildren.
It's so exciting.
Sometimes you don't have time toalways make everything from
scratch, obviously, andconvenience foods in particular,
are loaded with these cheappetroleum-based vegetable oils.
(09:16):
Now, from most inflammatory toleast, safflower oil has 70% of
linoleic acid, grapeseed oilalso 70%.
Sunflower oil.
Doesn't that sound so healthy,sunflower?
(09:37):
I mean, it's our logo, speakingof women's health.
Okay, we'll avoid that one.
It's 68% Corn oil.
I know corn seems like, oh, it'sa vegetable.
You know, it's so much fun toeat corn on the cob in the
summer.
So corn as a vegetable is fine.
But corn oil is 54%.
(10:08):
Cotton seed oil is 52% andcrystallized cotton seed is
Crisco.
I remember looking at that too,and a lot of pastries and
things call for Crisco and itjust never seemed natural to me.
But things like soybean oilsounded so good, that's 51%.
Rice bran oil 33% and peanutoil is 32% and peanut oil is 32%
, and that Canadian rapeseed oil, canola oil it's in a lot of
(10:30):
health foods listed as purepressed is still 19%.
Now let's compare that to somenatural fats like butter
grass-fed butter, 1% of linoleicacid, tallow grass-fed 1%.
(10:53):
Coconut oil.
You know coconut oil has beenkind of demonized as a medium
chain triglyceride and it'ssometimes hard to cook with,
depending on what you're making,because of the strong taste.
Um, I really like it tomoisturize skin and hair, um,
but I do try to use it some ofthe time and it's only 2%.
(11:14):
Ghee, uh, butter, um, and I'vegotten some interesting uh,
vanilla bean um.
Ghee that I sometimes put onsome on some baked products is
2%, and regular tallow is 3%.
Lard is 10%, which is the sameas palm oil and avocado oil.
(11:40):
So the two oils that I usuallyrecommend that my patients use
primarily to cook with are oliveoil, and olive oil can range as
low as 3% of linoleic acid ashigh as 27%.
On average it's about 10% and Ireally don't think you want to
go over 10% for the most part,10% for the most part.
(12:09):
Now, a lot of olive oil is thecheaper brands are contaminated
with canola oil and some ofthese cheaper, cheaper oils.
So I think that information andthose percentages are really
important to keep in mind, arereally important to keep in mind
.
(12:29):
So a margarine study, kind ofaptly named, looked at the group
consuming margarine very highin linoleic acid from vegetable
oils had a 700% higher risk ofstroke, heart attacks and
cardiovascular disease.
And I know there's so manypeople out there listening that
thought that margarine ishealthier than butter.
(12:50):
No, it isn't.
And this is compared to groupsthat ingested a good amount of
omega-3 rich foods like fish oil.
So these stark differencesunderscore health risk of high
vegetable oil consumption.
And since vegetables sound sogood, you know we always say eat
(13:11):
your fruits and vegetables thatpeople have translated that to
vegetable oils, which isn't thecase.
So you need choices and opt fornaturally minimally processed
fats.
So you have been listening tothe Speaking of Women's Health
(13:33):
podcast.
I am your host, dr HollyThacker, in the sunflower house,
not the sunflower oil house,because that's really pretty
high in l leg inflammatoryomega-6 fats.
So this is just a state of mindand a positive attitude and and
(13:53):
the beautiful iconic, uh,sunflower.
So omega fatty acids areessential fats that do play
crucial roles in manyphysiologic body processes,
including regulatinginflammation, brain function and
cardiovascular health.
So some of the times that I'llorder omega-3 fats is when
(14:15):
someone's complaining of brainfog, which can be from low
estrogen, I mean, if they'reclassic menopausal symptoms and
they get better, you know, withhormone therapy.
And I don't find any lipidabnormalities.
And I've already done, you know, a basic history about their
lifestyle and diet.
Cardiovascular disease forfurther cardiovascular risk
(14:37):
assessment, sometimes in peoplewith autoimmune conditions.
Frequently, our ophthalmologistsrecommend extra omega-3
ingestion for dry eyes and ifyou haven't listened to our dry
eye podcast or read the columnon Speaking on Women's Health,
which is updated, there's lotsof great information and dry
eyes are such a common problem.
(14:59):
I certainly noticed that, sinceI personally started really
rating labels and making aconscious effort to get more
omega-3s and try to take out asmuch inflammatory omega-6s as
possible, that even in the drywinter, my skin and my eyes
don't seem as dry.
There are polyunsaturated fatsthat are important for
(15:25):
maintaining health and, as Imentioned, the two primary types
are omega-3 and omega-6.
So the omega-3 fatty acids areso-called omega-3s, and we have
columns and lists on our websitewith foods.
The omega-3s include three.
Number one is ALAalpha-linolenic acid EPA is.
(15:49):
Number two eicosapentaenoicacid, and three is DHE
doxahexaenoic acid.
And omega-3s for a long timehave been known for profound
health benefits, particularlywhen they're in foods.
They lower the level oftriglycerides and they lower
(16:11):
pro-inflammatory cytokines, andthey reduce chronic inflammation
and oxidative stress that areassociated with age-related
diseases, includingneurodegenerative disorders and
cardiovascular disorders.
It looks like omega-3 fats alsohelp lower the risk of
depression, mood disorders,dementia and arthritis.
(16:33):
So when I have womencomplaining of depression.
I look at the lifestyle.
I look at hormones, sinceestrogen is a natural mood
elevator.
I look at vitamin deficiencieslow vitamin D can increase the
risk of depression, mooddisorders, arthritis.
Look at zinc levels, becauselow zinc levels affect the
(16:57):
immune system, and it's amazingthat people that are
overnourished in terms ofcalories and have too much
weight particularly centraladiposity many times are
nutritionally deficient and theyneed a complete overhaul of
what they're ingesting.
Omega-3s may also help someSome menopausal symptoms, minor
(17:20):
mood fluctuations and minoraches and pains, and so optimal
blood levels, according to ourlabs, include an index of over
5.5%, and many in the fieldconsider 8% ideal.
I have hardly seen any 8% in mypractice, so I think we have
(17:43):
quite a way to go.
America and I do see a lot ofhealth conscious people Now.
The omega-6 fatty acids areabundant in nuts and seeds, and
they help the function of allcells and play a role in
inflammation.
They're also very concentratedin vegetable oils, and that's
(18:03):
where I think too many peopleare getting too much.
If too much omega-6s areconsumed, it can be harmful, as
mentioned, due topro-inflammatory effects.
So how much do you need in aday?
So for ALA, which is one of theomega-3s about 1.6 grams a day
(18:24):
for men, 1.1 gram for women.
But pregnant women andbreastfeeding women need 1.4
grams to 1.3.
And that's so important for thebaby's development and brain in
utero and then in breastfeedingand brain in utero and then in
(18:45):
breastfeeding.
Omega-3 fat, ala, can beconverted to EPA and DHA.
However, the body does not useALA as effectively as EPA or
DHEA.
So for many vegetarians again,this isn't medical advice.
You need to talk with yourhealthcare team.
Many vegetarians it'srecommended that vegans take EPA
(19:10):
or DHEA supplements if needed,and I think if you're feeding a
strictly vegetarian diet to ayoung baby or young child that
needs brain development, againyou need really close attention
from your pediatrician or familymedicine physician.
(19:31):
Now, epa and DHAA the generalrecommendation of both combined
is about 250 to 500 milligrams,which is the equivalent of two
servings of fish per week, eightounces and that's something
I've always strived to do,although some weeks better than
(19:51):
others.
I'm not really great in thekitchen with fish and I think if
you go out and eat fish butthey're frying it in vegetable
oil, you're kind of um aregetting fries on the side, uh,
fried in vegetable oil.
You're really just messingeverything up.
Um, it's interesting to me thatseveral fast food places, like
(20:12):
I just heard that Steak andShake is changing all their
French fries to to beef tallow,which, of course, is better to
fry your fries, um, but again,you want whole foods and healthy
foods and not just a bunch ofgreasy foods either.
I think, though, just based onwhat I'm seeing, that when I see
(20:32):
women who have more appropriateratios and I ask them what
their diet is, they seem to begetting four servings a week of
fish, and that is a lot.
It can be expensive dependingon what part of the country that
you live in.
If you're a woman who has highuric acid, a lot of fish can be
very high in purines, which canincrease uric acids, although
(20:59):
salmon is one that's low inpurines and really rich in
omega-3s.
So anytime I go out to eat Itry to get fresh salmon.
For optimal cardiovascularhealth.
Many say you need one to threegrams a day, not just 250 to 500
.
So again, that's like overdouble of the bare minimum, and
(21:23):
I'm going to have to go back andupdate some of my
recommendations.
When I said just get twoservings of fish a week and
you'll be fine.
That might be fine if you'regetting other foods rich in
omega-3s and if you are reallytaking out all those seed oils
out of your diet.
Pregnancy and breastfeedingwomen they are so special and
(21:46):
you're taking care of a growingnew person or persons.
If it's more than one babyyou're carrying, and so they
need at least 300 milligrams perday, including 200 milligrams
of DHA for fetal braindevelopment.
Now, in terms of omega-6 fattyacids, which are much more
(22:06):
abundant, it's primarilylinoleic acid 17 grams a day for
men, 12 grams a day for women.
So some of the foods that arerichest in omega-3, the seafood
rich in EPA and DHEA is mackereland salmon, and I've ordered
(22:27):
some mackerel from Norway andit's got a lot of tiny little
bones in it.
It's a very, very fatty fishbut it's really the richest and
you don't really find that onvery many menus.
Tuna, but because of potentialheavy metal contamination, we
don't usually recommend it morethan once a week and in pregnant
(22:51):
women maybe even a little less.
Sardines are a good option.
Herring, which you can find incans, it's also known as kipper.
Herring, which you can find incans, it's also known as kipper.
It's kind of nice to justspread that on some whole wheat
toast Anchovies, which canreally spice up dressings.
I'm now making all my own saladdressings because if you read
(23:13):
labels, pretty much almost somany of the salad dressings have
these petroleum-based vegetableoils.
Cod liver oil Moms used to givekids a teaspoon of cod liver oil
, but that has vitamin A in itand you can get toxic on vitamin
A, so it wouldn't be more thana teaspoon a day and that's
probably still not enoughvitamin D for many people.
(23:36):
Caviar is rich in omega-3, butthat's not an everyday food and
it's pretty darn expensive.
Trout oh, we have some nicetrout clubs in Northeast Ohio.
I have a girlfriend who takesme to her trout club and they
make the most delicious trout.
And then seaweed.
(23:57):
You know vegetarians have topretty much ingest seaweed, sea
lettuce, sea grapes, green nori,also brown seaweed known as
wakame, hijiki, kombu and kelp.
Red seaweed is nori, palmaria,palmata and algae.
(24:20):
Also contains EPA and DHA Interms of shellfish.
Oysters, which are kind ofexpensive and some people
consider a delicacy.
Also rich in zinc, are rumoredto be aphrodisiacs but really
probably aren't.
Just having good nutrition andnot having a lot of inflammation
probably makes you feel betterand more interested in fun
(24:42):
activities of life.
Now, some of the plant-based ALArich foods walnuts, flaxseed,
chia seeds I routinely will addchia seeds and flaxseed to my
Greek yogurt Soybeans, spinachyogurt, soybeans, spinach.
(25:07):
Also cruciferous Brusselssprouts, which have anti-cancer
DIM effects.
The omega-3 enriched eggs Iknow these days, because of bird
flu and the culling of allthese chickens, unfortunately,
eggs have really gone up quite abit, but they're a good source.
But they're a good source hempseeds, spinach and kale.
(25:29):
So there are some plant-basedneeds and nuts and seeds that
you can can ingest, not justfish.
I do know there's people thatare allergic to fish.
I do know that there isdefinitely a segment of people
who cannot tolerate the smell ortaste of seafood, which is
really unfortunate because it'sreally very nutritious foods.
So if you're one of thosepeople, you have to work that
(25:51):
much harder.
So consuming foods can helpmeet ALA needs.
But the conversion of ALA toEPA and DHA, as I mentioned, is
limited.
It's like less than 10%.
But there is still some plantcontributions.
So those omega-6s I mentionedare these seed oils which I
(26:14):
think are best to avoid, likecottonseed oil, soybean oil,
corn oil, cottonseed oil,soybean oil, corn oil, sunflower
oil, safflower oil and a lot offried and processed foods
contain this.
So the goal is you want ahealthy balance and that is so
(26:35):
optimal.
But unfortunately, the typicalAmerican diet has an omega-6 to
omega-3 ratio exceeding 14 to 1,mainly because of processed
foods and the high consumptionof vegetable oils.
You know, I have patients whotell me oh, doctor, don't worry,
I'm not, I just use olive oil.
(26:56):
I even get it from Europe oravocado oil, and I don't use,
you know, any of that stuff.
And then I asked do you go outto eat?
Oh, yes, well, very fewrestaurants are using the more
expensive oils.
Apparently, there's an app thatyou can pay for or that list.
I think it's good to startasking questions, just like a
(27:18):
lot of our celiac patientswanted gluten listed on menus.
So I think seed oils are goingto be the next great one.
And having a 14 to 1 ratioreally puts you in a high
cardiovascular risk and highinflammation risk, and some
people suffer with a lot ofmusculoskeletal pain, joint pain
(27:40):
and really the ideal balance is4 to 1, not 14 to 1.
And the 4 to 1 ratio isconsidered much more favorable.
There's no actual officialguidelines, but experts agree
that lower ratios are generallypreferable.
(28:00):
By adjusting dietary habits toreduce omega-6 intake while
increasing omega-3, most peoplecan improve their ratios,
supporting better health andbetter outcomes and reducing
inflammatory disease.
So you might ask how do Icalculate this?
You can track the foods thatyou consume, identify omega
(28:25):
fatty acid sources, read labels,determine if it's omega-3 or
omega-6, and calculate yourratio and try to aim for a four
to one or lower ratio.
Now what are some of thesymptoms that your ratios may be
off?
What are some of the symptomsthat your ratios may be off?
Changes in your skin, like dryskin, acne, means you may not
(28:46):
have enough omega-3 fats in yourdiet.
In fact, one year I had reallyvery dry, irritable skin and
when I was going to the skincareesthetician, I've had a few of
them on our show, a few of themon our show.
So in season one and season twoif you didn't listen to our
(29:06):
skincare esthetician interviewsall on skincare I had one look
at me and say, oh, you're justnot getting enough omega-3 in
your diet and I was kind oftaken aback.
I'm like okay, really, here Iam a woman, self-phys physician,
I eat healthy, and then Iconsciously made an effort and
my skin really did improve.
(29:26):
I think I've told the storybefore on the podcast that when
I was pregnant with my third son, grayson, I kept going to
McDonald's with my older two.
I mean, I didn't give them thehappy meals, but they liked the
little happy toys.
So they were happy with thetoys and the little mini beanie
babies that they were giving outthen and I would just crave
filet-o-fish.
(29:47):
I didn't eat the bread, Ididn't eat the tartar sauce, I
just needed the fish and I'msure it was because my body
needed more omega-3.
Now there's probably maybehealthier ways that I didn't
have to have fried fish.
I could have had some kipper ontoast or some mackerel that I
(30:09):
made or fresh salmon.
But definitely brain function,you need omega-3.
And many people with depressionand anxiety can be dramatically
improved by fixing their dietas opposed to going on potent
pharmacologic agents.
So I think if you've got somemild mood disorder, you might
really want to look at your diet.
(30:30):
Certainly, if you're severelyaffected by depression and
anxiety, you want to seek mentalhealth, see your physician or
healthcare team as soon aspossible and not just only look
at diet, although we should allbe looking at diet.
As I mentioned, dry eyesomega-3 are known to maintain
(30:51):
eye moisture and tear production.
Some of my patients, when Ifind out they're on omega-3
supplements.
Probably the two most commonreasons are their triglycerides
are high or they have dry eyesor both.
Again, I think it's always bestto try to do it by diet,
because the cardiovascularreductions have primarily been
with foods, not just swallowinga bunch of expensive supplements
(31:15):
.
That being said, there is aselective case to be made for
many people to take high qualitysupplements.
Joint pain or stiffness I mean,who does not, over age 50, have
some joint pain and stiffnessand osteoarthritis?
If you haven't heard my podcaston joint supplements and joint
(31:35):
pain and joint replacements,which are pretty common, that's
a good one to go back to listento, and there have been some
studies showing reduction inpain and actual increase in grip
strength.
Hair health Okay, what woman isnot interested in her hair?
I think the hair podcast I'vedone are the most listened to
(31:57):
podcast, so listen up, women.
Omega-3 fats can improve thehair density, strength and
texture.
So is vitamin D and estrogenand zinc and iron and really
high quality protein.
When should you take omega fattyacid supplements?
(32:19):
Well, the American HeartAssociation has recommended
eating fish and seafoodregularly because they contain
omega-3s and they have beenshown to reduce risk for
cardiovascular disease andsudden death.
But dietary supplements mightbe an option for individuals who
just can't consume enough dueto allergies or dietary
(32:41):
restrictions or personalpreferences.
Studies have shown that omega-3supplements can reduce
mortality in patients with priorheart attacks and those with
heart failure.
In addition, two grams of EPAand DHA supplements can lower
both triglycerides and non-HDLcholesterol.
They do not significantlyaffect the LDL cholesterol,
(33:04):
though.
So if you cannot eat enough ofthese foods we've talked about,
then talk to your healthcareteam about whether you may need
an omega-3 fatty supplement.
Some of the options includefish oil, which can make you
burp a fishy taste, krill oil.
Sometimes lemon is added tothese oils.
(33:25):
Cod liver oil is kind of like anatural way that a lot of
people have taken a teaspoon aday.
Again, beware of too muchvitamin A.
Algae oil, you know forvegetarians, it's derived from
algae, plant-based omega-3 andhas DHA and EPA in it.
So omega fatty acids are vitalfor maintaining health and
(33:47):
preventing chronic diseases.
Particularly, the EPA and DHAare highlighted because of
anti-inflammatory and immunemodulating properties, which can
benefit your immune system,age-related degenerative
conditions and particularly howyour body may respond to viruses
(34:11):
by understanding therecommended intakes and
balancing the six to threeratios, incorporating fatty fish
, plant-based foods or, ifneeded, supplements, working
with your healthcare team tooptimize your health and your
well-being.
If you have seafood allergiesor follow a strict vegan diet,
(34:34):
then look to algae oil and ALArich foods to provide effective
alternatives to ensure omega-3consumption.
I have some patients who willget flax oil and it's not very
good to cook with based on itssmoke point, but they may
sprinkle that on some vegetablesor some salad Read labels for
(34:59):
salad dressings and mayonnaise,which generally has soybean oil.
Even the ones that are markedolive oil generally only have a
little dash of that and have abunch of the other oils in it.
So I've gone to buying theavocado-based mayonnaise for the
few times that I need that,like for when making tuna fish
(35:21):
sandwiches.
So thank you so much forlistening to our Speaking of
Women's Health podcast.
Don't miss a future episode.
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(35:46):
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Thanks again and I'll see younext time in the Sunflower House
.