June 11, 2025 • 31 mins
Want to know more about red light therapy? From skin rejuvenation and hair regrowth to easing joint pain and mitigating psoriasis, Dr. Thacker breaks down the facts of this phototherapy trend that's turning heads in spas and gyms. Discover how this non-invasive treatment could be the key to unlocking alternative health solutions while understanding the necessity of caution due to its experimental nature.
Host Dr. Holly Thacker also discusses the critical role of consulting trained professionals for any laser or phototherapy treatments, warning against the perils of untrained providers. Tune in to hear more about maintaining a balanced, holistic approach to health and discover the subtle art of navigating alternative therapies with wisdom and care. Don't miss out on practical tips and expert insights to help you take charge of your wellness journey!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Welcome to the Speaking of Women's Health
podcast.
I'm your host, dr Holly Thacker, and I am back in the Sunflower
House for a new episode in theSpeaking of Women's Health
podcast and on this new episodeI'm going to talk about red
(00:28):
light therapy.
Dr Sobia Khan, who completedour Specialized Women's Health
Fellowship over a decade ago andthen went on to get extra
educational training andcertified in functional medicine
, who was also on our podcast inseason one, wrote a very
(00:51):
interesting column on a hot notexactly pun intended great
column about red light therapyon speakingofwomenshealthcom
Light Therapy onspeakingofwomenshealthcom and
(01:11):
she is a women's healthfunctional medicine practitioner
and she does offerconsultations in functional
medicine, including virtualappointments.
Now, maybe you've heard of redlight therapy, maybe you haven't
, and it seems to be reallyquite the rage.
It's at spas and workoutfacilities.
(01:34):
I recently found out that oneof my coworkers spent a lot of
money getting a red lighttherapy blanket.
Certainly, we've used lighttherapy for a while to regrow
hair.
It was first approved for malepatterned hair thinning and
later got approved for femalepattern hair thinning, which is
(01:56):
really the same physiologicprocess.
It's just that males have a lotmore testosterone, so they have
a lot more androgenic hairthinning, and hair thinning
remains a top concern amongstwomen.
And if you didn't listen inseason one or season two on hair
(02:17):
thinning and hair loss, both ofthose episodes were in June
June of 2023 and June of 2024.
So I thought it would be good,since this season we're talking
about a lot of things in theanti-aging realm, and since our
(02:40):
motto is to be strong, behealthy and be in charge, and
because we like to be holisticand look at complementary,
alternative and integrativemedicine strategies, of which
our Wellness Center provides alot of great content on
(03:01):
speakinginwomenshealthcom, andwe have topics ranging from yoga
to Tai Chi, to acupuncture, tohealthy eating, reiki therapy,
dry needling, physical therapylots of different topics as
(03:26):
opposed to just standardallopathic medical therapy,
which certainly is veryimportant.
I'm trained in that, I'm an MDbut it's great to look at other
healing arts.
So it's been over a century,actually, since phototherapy has
(03:48):
been identified as a treatmentfor systemic lupus erythematosus
and there's been variousscientific advances in the
utilization of light, as well aslaser therapy for skin and
cancer treatments.
Speaking of laser treatments inthe cosmetic realm, if you
(04:13):
missed the podcast that I didwith cosmetic dermatologist and
surgeon, skin surgeon, dr Murray, she went into the complexities
and all the different lasertherapies that are available,
(04:33):
and lasers have also been usedin cancer therapies.
Gamma knife therapy is used forvery precision excision of
brain tumors, for example.
Used for very precisionexcision of brain tumors.
For example, ultravioletradiation has been done in order
(05:00):
to keep operating rooms andother places sterile, as well as
ultraviolet light therapy ofblood.
Light is a spectrum ofwavelengths, colors and
intensities, so it's importantfor us to understand what light
therapy might be used on one'sbody, because the specific
wavelength and the intensity oflight can treat cancer, or it
(05:23):
could lead to skin cancer if theright protection and
appropriate types of sunscreenare not used, just as one
example, and we've had a greatpodcast on skin protection and
different types of sunscreens.
So, getting back to red lighttherapy, it is a type of
(05:47):
phototherapy and it's atherapeutic technique that
utilizes very low levelwavelengths that are used to
address different types of skinconditions, such as psoriasis,
which can be very difficult totreat, although certainly stress
reduction, boosting vitamin D,keeping a healthy liver are
(06:12):
things that can help contributeto that.
Now there's a lot of differentother treatments, too, that red
light therapy has been advocated, from stimulating the scalp and
hair growth to actuallytreating wrinkles.
(06:33):
But we really do need moreresearch to further evaluate the
efficacy, to further evaluatethe efficacy.
But in the new year and the newage, contemporary and
alternative medicine certainlyis promoting red light therapy
(06:56):
devices to use for skincare, forjoint pain, for exercise
recovery, healing inflammationand pain.
So, as simple and natural asthis sounds, awareness about the
promotion sites and who issupplying the devices is clearly
needed.
(07:16):
There are many red lighttherapy devices that are used
both for home use that peoplecan just simply purchase, as
well as commercial use, and wedon't completely have
well-defined safety information.
So, like with anything that youdo, nothing is risk-free or
(07:42):
completely safe.
There's always risk, benefits,alternatives, potential side
effects, other options.
Now there have been somesmall-scale research studies and
some ongoing studies that dohighlight the significance of
(08:03):
red light therapy, but it'sstill really in the experimental
phase.
It's certainly not covered bymedical insurance, at least as
the time of this taping in 2024.
And we can't medically say howmany treatments that you need or
how much exposure is needed forwhat skin condition or what
(08:27):
joint condition, because ourcartilage does not have direct
blood flow and we cannotregenerate our cartilage and
tendons take a long time to heal, and so do muscles and the
surrounding soft tissue of thejoints.
Besides good nutrition and thetypical rice therapy, which is
(08:52):
rest, ice compression andelevation above the level of the
heart, athletes and weekendwarriors and just regular people
who have injuries, especiallythe older you get are always
looking for faster recoveries.
(09:12):
In the 1970s, you mightremember, dmso was all the rage
and there were athletes sayingthey applied it to injuries
topically and it workedCertainly.
Then the FDA got involved inall of that.
It's very potent solvent, so ifyou had pesticides or something
(09:34):
on your skin that you didn'twant absorbed, you certainly
wouldn't want to apply DMSO.
And so things that don'trequire prescriptions or don't
require a healthcare facility tomonitor or deliver doesn't mean
that it's just carte blancheand that you can just use it for
whatever.
And certainly pregnant women,children, frail people, elderly
(10:06):
people.
Just like with medications orsupplements, you have to even
take a higher level of care whenrecommending something that's
not incredibly well studied.
So the way it's thought that redlight therapy works is that
there's a specific wavelengthand penetration ability that
(10:27):
stimulates the energy producingunits of our cells called
mitochondria to improve thehealing and the synthesis and
the rejuvenation of collagen inthe skin, and red light therapy
appears to improve inflammationand allows the growth of
(10:48):
fibroblast and protein synthesis.
Certainly I've tried red lighttherapy on my shoulder.
I also went for otheralternative therapies for
acupuncture, which we've got alot of information and a podcast
coming up on acupuncture forvarious musculoskeletal and
(11:09):
other conditions.
So I think anytime there'scommon problems that aren't
life-threatening necessarily butare nagging or irritating,
people are always looking forself-help and new options.
So it's thought that red lighttherapy may help improve skin
(11:32):
health through collagenproduction, which gives our skin
that strength and elasticity.
Now in the menopause field Icertainly prescribe hormone
therapy, which does improvecollagen and skin and hair, even
though it's not officially FDAapproved for that.
Years ago beauty makers wouldput estrogen in creams that
(11:57):
people would rub on their faceand I have women ask me oh, can
I get estrogen to rub on my face?
And you really need it insideof your bloodstream for your
whole body.
And certainly many times youcan tell the difference in
appearance in someone who hashad premature menopause without
benefit of hormone therapy,where they have lost a lot of
(12:19):
collagen.
And there's been interestingresearch studies done in
advanced age, both males andfemales, putting an estrogen
patch or a dummy patch and thendoing skin biopsies to look at
the collagen.
But of course hormone therapyhas potential side effects risk.
It's a prescription medicine.
It can stimulate the uterusDepending on how it's given.
(12:43):
If it's given orally there canbe increased risk of blood clot.
And there's women who haveenough estrogen, who are
pre-menopausal, who still maywant red light therapy to boost
their collagen.
And it's thought that thewavelength might stimulate
(13:04):
fibroblast production, which iswhat is the part in the body
that actually makes collagen.
Anytime you apply any type ofheat, it can improve blood flow.
Usually with acute injuries,you always ice it in order to
reduce the swelling, because theswelling can damage the tissue
and cause more pain.
But after the first 24 to 48hours then usually you want heat
(13:29):
to improve blood flow to helpaccelerate healing.
To improve blood flow to helpaccelerate healing.
It's also thought that the redlight therapy might reduce
inflammation.
So some of the interestinghistory that Dr Kahn goes over
in her column on Speaking ofWomen's Health about red light
(13:49):
therapy is a little bit aboutthe history.
So apparently red light therapywas first used by NASA to grow
plants and for healingastronauts' wounds on their
hands, and so that's what caughton to the general public,
wanting red light therapy tohelp with skin healing and skin
(14:13):
rejuvenation.
And obviously, with aging,healing is slower With poor
nutrition, particularly notenough protein, not enough zinc,
not enough vitamin C.
And a lot of women will ask meoh, you know, should I put a lot
of vitamin C on my skin toboost collagen?
So I ask them what's your diet?
(14:35):
Are you ingesting foods rich invitamin C?
Now, some people do need extravitamin C if they're under
oxidative stress, like with aninfection or sepsis.
It seems like liposomal vitaminC is absorbed the best.
Now, too much vitamin C canincrease the risk of kidney
(14:55):
stones.
If you haven't listened to ourkidney stone podcast, that's a
good one to go and listen to.
So, really, what's inside yourbody and what you're ingesting
generally is very, veryimportant.
And if you're getting exposedto lots of pollution, which
(15:20):
includes cigarette smoke,directly or indirectly and we
have lots of information onsmoking cessation and if you
have not given up smoking aspart of your New Year's
resolution, we have informationthat can help you.
Now there was an NIH-fundedtrial specifically looking at
(15:41):
this topic about helping skinrejuvenation and increasing
collagen.
And this study concluded thatbroadband polychromatic photom
Modulation, pbm.
Pbm also, by the way, standsfor Pharmacy Benefit Managers,
(16:02):
which control the market onmedications.
If you're interested in cost ofmedications, I have a great
column written by our terrificnurses on reducing the cost of
medicines and we talk about PBMsand why that's increased the
cost of old, cheap medicineslike estrogen, like insulin.
(16:24):
But anyway, getting back tothis study on this PBM,
polychromatic photo biomodulation, which means
different color wavelengths oflight biologically modulating
the tissue, that did not appearto have any advantage over just
(16:47):
plain red light spectrum light.
However, other light sourcesthat have not been used before
PBM have not been shown reallyto affect the skin rejuvenation
(17:07):
and intradermal collagenincreases when compared to
controls.
So you know, there's lots ofdifferent light sources and lots
of different outcomes andapparently they haven't really
been shown, compared to redlight therapy, to be that much
(17:28):
more, to be more effective atall.
So what you might ask has beenshown to improve with red light
therapy?
There's some evidence thatrosacea, which is a very common
red inflammatory condition ofthe skin, it can look like acne,
(17:50):
it can affect the eyelids, itcan affect the dryness level in
the eyes, it can causerhinophyma enlargement of the
nose.
It can cause painful cysts.
We actually have a wholepodcast on rosacea.
So if you suffer from thiscondition or know someone who
does, you can read our column orlisten to that podcast.
And I have an updated podcaston dry eyes.
(18:13):
We have a second one updatedpodcast on dry eyes.
We have a second one andthere's a new eye drop that
treats the demodex mite, whichwe think has pathology in
causing rosacea.
And certainly there's lasertreatments for rosacea, but red
(18:34):
light therapy is something thatsomeone if you're going for
laser therapy specifically totreat rosacea, but red light
therapy is something thatsomeone if you're going for
laser therapy specifically totreat rosacea or skin conditions
you have to see an experienceddermatologist and that's one
thing that we got into a littlebit on the podcast with Dr
Murray, the cosmeticdermatologist.
Laser expert is there areplaces like spas and physicians
(19:00):
that aren't necessarily trainedspecifically in the use of
lasers that are offering thiskind of cash pay service.
So you really have to bewareand I think that's part of the
reason why red light therapy ingyms and spas and just for home
use has become so popular,because people don't have to
(19:23):
seek out necessarily scars.
It can reduce inflammation oredema.
And then, of course, womenmidlife and beyond are always
(19:45):
looking for things to helpreduce wrinkles and fine lines
or age spots.
Improving the texture of theskin and evening the skin tone
is another popular pursuit, andwe've had a couple of great
podcasts on skin with ourskincare estheticians and if you
(20:07):
haven't listened to those, goback and listen to those
podcasts.
When I was talking with LoriSkarsgård, our lead skincare
esthetician, she convinced meduring that podcast to get the
perfect peel again to improveskin texture and fine lines, and
I finally did it.
I was happy I did so.
(20:28):
There's lots of different waysto improve the skin, to improve
the skin, starting, of course,with the basics, with good skin
care routine and good nutritionand avoiding smoking, harsh
lights, pollution, even thelight off of screens I mean
(20:49):
increasingly people workremotely, their faces in front
of a screen all day.
Stretch marks are another commonproblem amongst women, many
postpartum women and we're allon that holy grail to promote
healthy aging and repair anytype of muscle or tissue injury.
(21:10):
So it might improve skinconditions, but the therapy
medically is still consideredsomewhat controversial, and you
have been listening to theSpeaking of Women's Health
podcast.
I'm your host, dr Holly Thacker.
We're in season three.
I've certainly talked about alot of other podcasts that we've
(21:33):
previously done, and we'retoday talking about the benefits
of other podcasts that we'vepreviously done, and we're today
talking about the benefits ofred light therapy.
It may help reduce sorenessafter exercise.
I think that's why a lot ofexercise facilities have put
them in.
It might promote wound healingand tissue repair, although,
(21:56):
again, good nutrition, goodblood flow and treating
micronutrient deficienciesreally rank very high.
Joint pain, which is so common80% of people get some
osteoarthritis.
I did a podcast on jointsupplements, joint pain and
(22:17):
joint replacements, and jointreplacements are a lot more
common in women, and so that'sreally one to go back to listen
to if you or a loved one is atall contemplating any kind of
upcoming orthopedic surgery orjoint replacement.
Rheumatoid arthritis, which ismore common in women.
Red light therapy has been usedin this inflammatory condition
(22:41):
as well as others.
It's sometimes used to relievepain and inflammation in people
who have Achilles tendon painand Achilles tendon injuries are
very hard to treat and take along time.
Any kind of tendon injury doesImproving hair growth, as I
(23:02):
mentioned with androgenicalopecia Several years ago for
Christmas, I bought my husband ared light cap for his scalp.
He was not happy about it at all.
He was not happy about it atall.
He did not appreciate thatChristmas gift, oh my.
And when I talk to patients whoare considering buying one
(23:24):
because they're relativelyexpensive, I always say get one
with a money back guarantee, andthey usually require you to
take a picture of the area onyour scalp that you want the
hair to grow, and then, six orseven months later, another
picture.
Now also thoughts aboutimproving nerve function and
(23:49):
memory with dementia.
I do think that's a little bitof a stretch just based on the
skull, protecting the gray andwhite matter of the brain.
But what you can see is thatthere is this quest that for
(24:10):
common or very perplexing orhard to treat conditions that
allopathic medicine may havesome trouble getting cures for,
people are going to seek outother alternatives, and so, even
though we don't have theresearch that we would like, I
still think it's important forus to put out the information
that we do have.
(24:30):
Now you might be thinking well,who should not use red light
therapy?
People with cancer or a historyof cancer might decide to avoid
red light therapy.
A 2019 study Trusted Sourcesuggested that red light therapy
could.
A 2019 study trusted sourcesuggested that red light therapy
could make some cancer cellsmore aggressive.
(24:50):
But more research is needed andthere are some possible
benefits.
Can I buy red light therapyproducts online and are they
safe is another question thatphysicians and healthcare team
members may get.
There's a lot of differentproducts available online lots
(25:13):
of different prices, manydifferent styles, and the
over-the-counter ones areprobably safe to use, but
they're probably also not nearlyas strong as the devices that
are used in a dermatologist'soffice.
And, of course, anytime you'reusing anything electronic,
follow all safety instructionsbefore using any new device and
(25:36):
always be cautious of whatyou're buying.
And if you're going to a beautyspa, do your research on the
spa and also the person handlingthe red light therapy and
medically, I would not not thatthis is medical advice.
This is just information toempower you to be strong and be
healthy and be in charge.
(25:57):
But when I'm talking to mypatients, I tell them um taking
shortcuts to save money, likeleaving the country to get
plastic surgery on the cheap inMexico or going to some
practitioner who's not trainedas a trained dermatologist using
laser or injecting fillers andBotox.
(26:18):
It does not seem to be like awise decision just to save some
money when you might be in thehands of someone who is not
nearly as skilled.
And we do have information onour website on.
You know things really gone bad,and certainly on the internet
(26:39):
you can find a lot of examples.
So if you've got any chronicmedical conditions you're not
sure, talk to your health careteam about your individual
situation before starting anykind of new treatment, and that
includes supplements.
That may also include somethingas simple as, say, an inversion
(27:01):
table to lengthen out yourspine, your neck and your back.
If your abdominal musclesaren't strong enough, you could
be stuck there and not able toactually get back up from that
inverted position.
So a lot of devices that arepromoted to help chronic
(27:22):
problems.
You have to look at them ascritically as you would any
biological agent, injection,medication, anything that you
expect to potentially have abiological effect.
So a word of caution for skinconditions definitely work and
(27:42):
talk with your dermatologist.
Have a skin exam before anykind of light therapy is applied
so that you know all thedifferent treatment options.
Most studies so far on redlight therapy show that there's
some potential for improvingcertain conditions, but, as we
have mentioned and emphasized,it is nice to have more evidence
(28:06):
and more research.
And also, excessive use of itcan lead to skin damage and it's
not known through randomized,controlled trials what intensity
or length of exposure is bestfor healing different skin
conditions versus joint achesand pains which are deeper, and
(28:29):
there has been reports of burnsand lesions and even blistering,
which can lead to infection, aswell as the potential for eye
damage.
So more research is needed andand again, we want to have you
consult your physician beforestarting therapy and for any
(28:53):
condition that might be naggingyou, whether it's hair thinning,
whether it's rosacea, whetherit's acne, whether it's joint
pain, whether it's uh, I'd liketo lose some weight, uh like.
What wavelength should you beexposed to during the day?
Generally speaking, earlier inthe day, bright natural sunlight
(29:16):
is best for helping to resetyour circadian rhythm, and sleep
is the foundation for healing,and sleep is the foundation for
healing when you're asleep.
That's when your body isregenerating and your brain is
refreshing, and so optimizingyour sleep and nutrition should
(29:37):
generally be first on your listof things to do when you're
dealing with something that isbothering you or whether you're
just on that holy grail ofanti-aging, but beware of
anything that sounds too good tobe true is usually.
(29:58):
I think that's kind of a goodrule of thumb, and as more
information comes in, we willpost it on our website or social
media.
If you don't follow us onsocial media, we're on all the
different channels, all thedifferent apps called Speaking
of Women's Health, and so thankyou for listening to the
(30:24):
Speaking of Women's Healthpodcast.
Don't miss any future episodes.
Subscribe or follow whereveryou listen to podcasts on Apple,
itunes, spotify, tunein and ifyou've enjoyed this episode and
you want to help support us,please give us a five-star
(30:45):
rating and you can go on thewebsite and hit donate, because
we are a non-profit and we lookforward to seeing you next time
in the Sunflower House.
Remember, be strong, be healthyand be in charge.
Welcome to the Speaking of Women's Health
podcast.
I'm your host, dr Holly Thacker, and I am back in the Sunflower
House for a new episode in theSpeaking of Women's Health
podcast and on this new episodeI'm going to talk about red
(00:28):
light therapy.
Dr Sobia Khan, who completedour Specialized Women's Health
Fellowship over a decade ago andthen went on to get extra
educational training andcertified in functional medicine
, who was also on our podcast inseason one, wrote a very
(00:51):
interesting column on a hot notexactly pun intended great
column about red light therapyon speakingofwomenshealthcom
Light Therapy onspeakingofwomenshealthcom and
(01:11):
she is a women's healthfunctional medicine practitioner
and she does offerconsultations in functional
medicine, including virtualappointments.
Now, maybe you've heard of redlight therapy, maybe you haven't
, and it seems to be reallyquite the rage.
It's at spas and workoutfacilities.
(01:34):
I recently found out that oneof my coworkers spent a lot of
money getting a red lighttherapy blanket.
Certainly, we've used lighttherapy for a while to regrow
hair.
It was first approved for malepatterned hair thinning and
later got approved for femalepattern hair thinning, which is
(01:56):
really the same physiologicprocess.
It's just that males have a lotmore testosterone, so they have
a lot more androgenic hairthinning, and hair thinning
remains a top concern amongstwomen.
And if you didn't listen inseason one or season two on hair
(02:17):
thinning and hair loss, both ofthose episodes were in June
June of 2023 and June of 2024.
So I thought it would be good,since this season we're talking
about a lot of things in theanti-aging realm, and since our
(02:40):
motto is to be strong, behealthy and be in charge, and
because we like to be holisticand look at complementary,
alternative and integrativemedicine strategies, of which
our Wellness Center provides alot of great content on
(03:01):
speakinginwomenshealthcom, andwe have topics ranging from yoga
to Tai Chi, to acupuncture, tohealthy eating, reiki therapy,
dry needling, physical therapylots of different topics as
(03:26):
opposed to just standardallopathic medical therapy,
which certainly is veryimportant.
I'm trained in that, I'm an MDbut it's great to look at other
healing arts.
So it's been over a century,actually, since phototherapy has
(03:48):
been identified as a treatmentfor systemic lupus erythematosus
and there's been variousscientific advances in the
utilization of light, as well aslaser therapy for skin and
cancer treatments.
Speaking of laser treatments inthe cosmetic realm, if you
(04:13):
missed the podcast that I didwith cosmetic dermatologist and
surgeon, skin surgeon, dr Murray, she went into the complexities
and all the different lasertherapies that are available,
(04:33):
and lasers have also been usedin cancer therapies.
Gamma knife therapy is used forvery precision excision of
brain tumors, for example.
Used for very precisionexcision of brain tumors.
For example, ultravioletradiation has been done in order
(05:00):
to keep operating rooms andother places sterile, as well as
ultraviolet light therapy ofblood.
Light is a spectrum ofwavelengths, colors and
intensities, so it's importantfor us to understand what light
therapy might be used on one'sbody, because the specific
wavelength and the intensity oflight can treat cancer, or it
(05:23):
could lead to skin cancer if theright protection and
appropriate types of sunscreenare not used, just as one
example, and we've had a greatpodcast on skin protection and
different types of sunscreens.
So, getting back to red lighttherapy, it is a type of
(05:47):
phototherapy and it's atherapeutic technique that
utilizes very low levelwavelengths that are used to
address different types of skinconditions, such as psoriasis,
which can be very difficult totreat, although certainly stress
reduction, boosting vitamin D,keeping a healthy liver are
(06:12):
things that can help contributeto that.
Now there's a lot of differentother treatments, too, that red
light therapy has been advocated, from stimulating the scalp and
hair growth to actuallytreating wrinkles.
(06:33):
But we really do need moreresearch to further evaluate the
efficacy, to further evaluatethe efficacy.
But in the new year and the newage, contemporary and
alternative medicine certainlyis promoting red light therapy
(06:56):
devices to use for skincare, forjoint pain, for exercise
recovery, healing inflammationand pain.
So, as simple and natural asthis sounds, awareness about the
promotion sites and who issupplying the devices is clearly
needed.
(07:16):
There are many red lighttherapy devices that are used
both for home use that peoplecan just simply purchase, as
well as commercial use, and wedon't completely have
well-defined safety information.
So, like with anything that youdo, nothing is risk-free or
(07:42):
completely safe.
There's always risk, benefits,alternatives, potential side
effects, other options.
Now there have been somesmall-scale research studies and
some ongoing studies that dohighlight the significance of
(08:03):
red light therapy, but it'sstill really in the experimental
phase.
It's certainly not covered bymedical insurance, at least as
the time of this taping in 2024.
And we can't medically say howmany treatments that you need or
how much exposure is needed forwhat skin condition or what
(08:27):
joint condition, because ourcartilage does not have direct
blood flow and we cannotregenerate our cartilage and
tendons take a long time to heal, and so do muscles and the
surrounding soft tissue of thejoints.
Besides good nutrition and thetypical rice therapy, which is
(08:52):
rest, ice compression andelevation above the level of the
heart, athletes and weekendwarriors and just regular people
who have injuries, especiallythe older you get are always
looking for faster recoveries.
(09:12):
In the 1970s, you mightremember, dmso was all the rage
and there were athletes sayingthey applied it to injuries
topically and it workedCertainly.
Then the FDA got involved inall of that.
It's very potent solvent, so ifyou had pesticides or something
(09:34):
on your skin that you didn'twant absorbed, you certainly
wouldn't want to apply DMSO.
And so things that don'trequire prescriptions or don't
require a healthcare facility tomonitor or deliver doesn't mean
that it's just carte blancheand that you can just use it for
whatever.
And certainly pregnant women,children, frail people, elderly
(10:06):
people.
Just like with medications orsupplements, you have to even
take a higher level of care whenrecommending something that's
not incredibly well studied.
So the way it's thought that redlight therapy works is that
there's a specific wavelengthand penetration ability that
(10:27):
stimulates the energy producingunits of our cells called
mitochondria to improve thehealing and the synthesis and
the rejuvenation of collagen inthe skin, and red light therapy
appears to improve inflammationand allows the growth of
(10:48):
fibroblast and protein synthesis.
Certainly I've tried red lighttherapy on my shoulder.
I also went for otheralternative therapies for
acupuncture, which we've got alot of information and a podcast
coming up on acupuncture forvarious musculoskeletal and
(11:09):
other conditions.
So I think anytime there'scommon problems that aren't
life-threatening necessarily butare nagging or irritating,
people are always looking forself-help and new options.
So it's thought that red lighttherapy may help improve skin
(11:32):
health through collagenproduction, which gives our skin
that strength and elasticity.
Now in the menopause field Icertainly prescribe hormone
therapy, which does improvecollagen and skin and hair, even
though it's not officially FDAapproved for that.
Years ago beauty makers wouldput estrogen in creams that
(11:57):
people would rub on their faceand I have women ask me oh, can
I get estrogen to rub on my face?
And you really need it insideof your bloodstream for your
whole body.
And certainly many times youcan tell the difference in
appearance in someone who hashad premature menopause without
benefit of hormone therapy,where they have lost a lot of
(12:19):
collagen.
And there's been interestingresearch studies done in
advanced age, both males andfemales, putting an estrogen
patch or a dummy patch and thendoing skin biopsies to look at
the collagen.
But of course hormone therapyhas potential side effects risk.
It's a prescription medicine.
It can stimulate the uterusDepending on how it's given.
(12:43):
If it's given orally there canbe increased risk of blood clot.
And there's women who haveenough estrogen, who are
pre-menopausal, who still maywant red light therapy to boost
their collagen.
And it's thought that thewavelength might stimulate
(13:04):
fibroblast production, which iswhat is the part in the body
that actually makes collagen.
Anytime you apply any type ofheat, it can improve blood flow.
Usually with acute injuries,you always ice it in order to
reduce the swelling, because theswelling can damage the tissue
and cause more pain.
But after the first 24 to 48hours then usually you want heat
(13:29):
to improve blood flow to helpaccelerate healing.
To improve blood flow to helpaccelerate healing.
It's also thought that the redlight therapy might reduce
inflammation.
So some of the interestinghistory that Dr Kahn goes over
in her column on Speaking ofWomen's Health about red light
(13:49):
therapy is a little bit aboutthe history.
So apparently red light therapywas first used by NASA to grow
plants and for healingastronauts' wounds on their
hands, and so that's what caughton to the general public,
wanting red light therapy tohelp with skin healing and skin
(14:13):
rejuvenation.
And obviously, with aging,healing is slower With poor
nutrition, particularly notenough protein, not enough zinc,
not enough vitamin C.
And a lot of women will ask meoh, you know, should I put a lot
of vitamin C on my skin toboost collagen?
So I ask them what's your diet?
(14:35):
Are you ingesting foods rich invitamin C?
Now, some people do need extravitamin C if they're under
oxidative stress, like with aninfection or sepsis.
It seems like liposomal vitaminC is absorbed the best.
Now, too much vitamin C canincrease the risk of kidney
(14:55):
stones.
If you haven't listened to ourkidney stone podcast, that's a
good one to go and listen to.
So, really, what's inside yourbody and what you're ingesting
generally is very, veryimportant.
And if you're getting exposedto lots of pollution, which
(15:20):
includes cigarette smoke,directly or indirectly and we
have lots of information onsmoking cessation and if you
have not given up smoking aspart of your New Year's
resolution, we have informationthat can help you.
Now there was an NIH-fundedtrial specifically looking at
(15:41):
this topic about helping skinrejuvenation and increasing
collagen.
And this study concluded thatbroadband polychromatic photom
Modulation, pbm.
Pbm also, by the way, standsfor Pharmacy Benefit Managers,
(16:02):
which control the market onmedications.
If you're interested in cost ofmedications, I have a great
column written by our terrificnurses on reducing the cost of
medicines and we talk about PBMsand why that's increased the
cost of old, cheap medicineslike estrogen, like insulin.
(16:24):
But anyway, getting back tothis study on this PBM,
polychromatic photo biomodulation, which means
different color wavelengths oflight biologically modulating
the tissue, that did not appearto have any advantage over just
(16:47):
plain red light spectrum light.
However, other light sourcesthat have not been used before
PBM have not been shown reallyto affect the skin rejuvenation
(17:07):
and intradermal collagenincreases when compared to
controls.
So you know, there's lots ofdifferent light sources and lots
of different outcomes andapparently they haven't really
been shown, compared to redlight therapy, to be that much
(17:28):
more, to be more effective atall.
So what you might ask has beenshown to improve with red light
therapy?
There's some evidence thatrosacea, which is a very common
red inflammatory condition ofthe skin, it can look like acne,
(17:50):
it can affect the eyelids, itcan affect the dryness level in
the eyes, it can causerhinophyma enlargement of the
nose.
It can cause painful cysts.
We actually have a wholepodcast on rosacea.
So if you suffer from thiscondition or know someone who
does, you can read our column orlisten to that podcast.
And I have an updated podcaston dry eyes.
(18:13):
We have a second one updatedpodcast on dry eyes.
We have a second one andthere's a new eye drop that
treats the demodex mite, whichwe think has pathology in
causing rosacea.
And certainly there's lasertreatments for rosacea, but red
(18:34):
light therapy is something thatsomeone if you're going for
laser therapy specifically totreat rosacea, but red light
therapy is something thatsomeone if you're going for
laser therapy specifically totreat rosacea or skin conditions
you have to see an experienceddermatologist and that's one
thing that we got into a littlebit on the podcast with Dr
Murray, the cosmeticdermatologist.
Laser expert is there areplaces like spas and physicians
(19:00):
that aren't necessarily trainedspecifically in the use of
lasers that are offering thiskind of cash pay service.
So you really have to bewareand I think that's part of the
reason why red light therapy ingyms and spas and just for home
use has become so popular,because people don't have to
(19:23):
seek out necessarily scars.
It can reduce inflammation oredema.
And then, of course, womenmidlife and beyond are always
(19:45):
looking for things to helpreduce wrinkles and fine lines
or age spots.
Improving the texture of theskin and evening the skin tone
is another popular pursuit, andwe've had a couple of great
podcasts on skin with ourskincare estheticians and if you
(20:07):
haven't listened to those, goback and listen to those
podcasts.
When I was talking with LoriSkarsgård, our lead skincare
esthetician, she convinced meduring that podcast to get the
perfect peel again to improveskin texture and fine lines, and
I finally did it.
I was happy I did so.
(20:28):
There's lots of different waysto improve the skin, to improve
the skin, starting, of course,with the basics, with good skin
care routine and good nutritionand avoiding smoking, harsh
lights, pollution, even thelight off of screens I mean
(20:49):
increasingly people workremotely, their faces in front
of a screen all day.
Stretch marks are another commonproblem amongst women, many
postpartum women and we're allon that holy grail to promote
healthy aging and repair anytype of muscle or tissue injury.
(21:10):
So it might improve skinconditions, but the therapy
medically is still consideredsomewhat controversial, and you
have been listening to theSpeaking of Women's Health
podcast.
I'm your host, dr Holly Thacker.
We're in season three.
I've certainly talked about alot of other podcasts that we've
(21:33):
previously done, and we'retoday talking about the benefits
of other podcasts that we'vepreviously done, and we're today
talking about the benefits ofred light therapy.
It may help reduce sorenessafter exercise.
I think that's why a lot ofexercise facilities have put
them in.
It might promote wound healingand tissue repair, although,
(21:56):
again, good nutrition, goodblood flow and treating
micronutrient deficienciesreally rank very high.
Joint pain, which is so common80% of people get some
osteoarthritis.
I did a podcast on jointsupplements, joint pain and
(22:17):
joint replacements, and jointreplacements are a lot more
common in women, and so that'sreally one to go back to listen
to if you or a loved one is atall contemplating any kind of
upcoming orthopedic surgery orjoint replacement.
Rheumatoid arthritis, which ismore common in women.
Red light therapy has been usedin this inflammatory condition
(22:41):
as well as others.
It's sometimes used to relievepain and inflammation in people
who have Achilles tendon painand Achilles tendon injuries are
very hard to treat and take along time.
Any kind of tendon injury doesImproving hair growth, as I
(23:02):
mentioned with androgenicalopecia Several years ago for
Christmas, I bought my husband ared light cap for his scalp.
He was not happy about it at all.
He was not happy about it atall.
He did not appreciate thatChristmas gift, oh my.
And when I talk to patients whoare considering buying one
(23:24):
because they're relativelyexpensive, I always say get one
with a money back guarantee, andthey usually require you to
take a picture of the area onyour scalp that you want the
hair to grow, and then, six orseven months later, another
picture.
Now also thoughts aboutimproving nerve function and
(23:49):
memory with dementia.
I do think that's a little bitof a stretch just based on the
skull, protecting the gray andwhite matter of the brain.
But what you can see is thatthere is this quest that for
(24:10):
common or very perplexing orhard to treat conditions that
allopathic medicine may havesome trouble getting cures for,
people are going to seek outother alternatives, and so, even
though we don't have theresearch that we would like, I
still think it's important forus to put out the information
that we do have.
(24:30):
Now you might be thinking well,who should not use red light
therapy?
People with cancer or a historyof cancer might decide to avoid
red light therapy.
A 2019 study Trusted Sourcesuggested that red light therapy
could.
A 2019 study trusted sourcesuggested that red light therapy
could make some cancer cellsmore aggressive.
(24:50):
But more research is needed andthere are some possible
benefits.
Can I buy red light therapyproducts online and are they
safe is another question thatphysicians and healthcare team
members may get.
There's a lot of differentproducts available online lots
(25:13):
of different prices, manydifferent styles, and the
over-the-counter ones areprobably safe to use, but
they're probably also not nearlyas strong as the devices that
are used in a dermatologist'soffice.
And, of course, anytime you'reusing anything electronic,
follow all safety instructionsbefore using any new device and
(25:36):
always be cautious of whatyou're buying.
And if you're going to a beautyspa, do your research on the
spa and also the person handlingthe red light therapy and
medically, I would not not thatthis is medical advice.
This is just information toempower you to be strong and be
healthy and be in charge.
(25:57):
But when I'm talking to mypatients, I tell them um taking
shortcuts to save money, likeleaving the country to get
plastic surgery on the cheap inMexico or going to some
practitioner who's not trainedas a trained dermatologist using
laser or injecting fillers andBotox.
(26:18):
It does not seem to be like awise decision just to save some
money when you might be in thehands of someone who is not
nearly as skilled.
And we do have information onour website on.
You know things really gone bad,and certainly on the internet
(26:39):
you can find a lot of examples.
So if you've got any chronicmedical conditions you're not
sure, talk to your health careteam about your individual
situation before starting anykind of new treatment, and that
includes supplements.
That may also include somethingas simple as, say, an inversion
(27:01):
table to lengthen out yourspine, your neck and your back.
If your abdominal musclesaren't strong enough, you could
be stuck there and not able toactually get back up from that
inverted position.
So a lot of devices that arepromoted to help chronic
(27:22):
problems.
You have to look at them ascritically as you would any
biological agent, injection,medication, anything that you
expect to potentially have abiological effect.
So a word of caution for skinconditions definitely work and
(27:42):
talk with your dermatologist.
Have a skin exam before anykind of light therapy is applied
so that you know all thedifferent treatment options.
Most studies so far on redlight therapy show that there's
some potential for improvingcertain conditions, but, as we
have mentioned and emphasized,it is nice to have more evidence
(28:06):
and more research.
And also, excessive use of itcan lead to skin damage and it's
not known through randomized,controlled trials what intensity
or length of exposure is bestfor healing different skin
conditions versus joint achesand pains which are deeper, and
(28:29):
there has been reports of burnsand lesions and even blistering,
which can lead to infection, aswell as the potential for eye
damage.
So more research is needed andand again, we want to have you
consult your physician beforestarting therapy and for any
(28:53):
condition that might be naggingyou, whether it's hair thinning,
whether it's rosacea, whetherit's acne, whether it's joint
pain, whether it's uh, I'd liketo lose some weight, uh like.
What wavelength should you beexposed to during the day?
Generally speaking, earlier inthe day, bright natural sunlight
(29:16):
is best for helping to resetyour circadian rhythm, and sleep
is the foundation for healing,and sleep is the foundation for
healing when you're asleep.
That's when your body isregenerating and your brain is
refreshing, and so optimizingyour sleep and nutrition should
(29:37):
generally be first on your listof things to do when you're
dealing with something that isbothering you or whether you're
just on that holy grail ofanti-aging, but beware of
anything that sounds too good tobe true is usually.
(29:58):
I think that's kind of a goodrule of thumb, and as more
information comes in, we willpost it on our website or social
media.
If you don't follow us onsocial media, we're on all the
different channels, all thedifferent apps called Speaking
of Women's Health, and so thankyou for listening to the
(30:24):
Speaking of Women's Healthpodcast.
Don't miss any future episodes.
Subscribe or follow whereveryou listen to podcasts on Apple,
itunes, spotify, tunein and ifyou've enjoyed this episode and
you want to help support us,please give us a five-star
(30:45):
rating and you can go on thewebsite and hit donate, because
we are a non-profit and we lookforward to seeing you next time
in the Sunflower House.
Remember, be strong, be healthyand be in charge.
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