February 24, 2025 • 45 mins
What can climbing a mountain teach you about becoming a powerful communicator? In this episode of Speaking With Confidence, Tim Newman sits down with Vesela Mantegna, a business coach and corporate finance expert, to explore how preparation, adaptability, and authenticity shape how we connect with others.
Vesela shares how her experience scaling Mount Fuji mirrors the challenges of effective communication, navigating unexpected obstacles, pushing past self-doubt, and learning to trust the process. Whether in boardrooms, networking events, or personal conversations, confidence isn’t about perfection, it’s about being prepared, present, and real.
This conversation goes beyond the mechanics of public speaking to explore how self-awareness, feedback, and storytelling transform everyday interactions. Vesela unpacks the four communication archetypes and how understanding them can help you engage, influence, and inspire any audience. If you've ever struggled with imposter syndrome, fear of speaking up, or feeling like your message isn’t landing, this episode is packed with insights to help you communicate with impact.
Key Takeaways:
✅ Preparation builds confidence – The more prepared you are, the more naturally you can adapt in conversations.
✅ Authenticity is your superpower – People connect with real, not perfect.
✅ Fear fades with action – Confidence is built by showing up, speaking up, and learning from experience.
✅ Feedback accelerates growth – Seeking input from others sharpens your ability to communicate effectively.
✅ Know your communication archetype – Understanding your natural style helps you connect with different audiences.
✅ Engagement is everything – Powerful communication isn’t about what you say—it’s about how you make people feel.
✅ Every conversation is an opportunity – Whether in meetings, networking, or everyday interactions, your words have impact.
Tune in now and take your communication skills to the next level!
Resources & Links
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vesela-mangeyna-fcca-a54058b/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/EMTVeselaMangeyna/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/vmangeyna/
Tik Tok: https://www.tiktok.com/@veselamangeyna
Want more resources on public speaking? Visit TimNewmanSpeaks.com to grab free tips and book a call with me.
Want to be a guest on Speaking With Confidence? Send Tim Newman a message on PodMatch
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tim (00:08):
Welcome to Speaking with Confidence, a podcast that's
here to help you unlock thepower of effective public
speaking.
I'm your host, tim Newman, andI'm excited to take you on a
journey to become a betterpublic speaker.
Today's guest, vesla Mangana,is a business coach and mentor
with 13 years of corporatefinance experience at Ernst
Young in both the United Statesand Bulgaria.
She is a senior trainer ofPeter Sage and facilitates his
(00:31):
six-month personaltransformation program called
Elite Mentorship Forum.
Basila graduated from WarwickUniversity in the United Kingdom
.
Her mission is to help peoplefind their purpose in life and
live their authentic self.
Kingdom Her mission is to helppeople find their purpose in
life and live their authenticself.
Her biggest achievement so faris climbing Mount Fuji in Japan
with a height of 3,776 meters,which is almost 13,000 feet.
(00:58):
Vesla number one, that's agreat accomplishment.
Vesela (01:00):
but welcome to the show.
So glad to have you on, Thankyou.
Thank you, Tim.
I'm very happy that I'm guestwith you in your podcast.
Speaking with Confidence, it'smy pleasure.
Tim (01:08):
We're going to have a good time today and you know we're
going to talk a lot aboutbuilding and developing
confidence with you.
But first I really want to hearabout this experience you had
climbing Mount Fuji.
You know what brought you tothat decision to do that.
What was it like?
What was the training like?
What was the experience like?
Vesela (01:28):
Yeah, actually this is a graduate decision, so it was
not like I wake up one morningand I said I want to climb Fuji
Mountain.
I start first with other peaks,other mountains, with other
peaks, other mountains.
I climbed most of the bigmountains in Bulgaria and I
(01:49):
climbed big hills in Bulgaria,like lots of them, and like five
, six mountains.
I did different mountainsclimbings during the winter as
well, when there is lots of snow.
So I prepared for this and oneday, with the guy I was climbing
(02:13):
the mountain, I asked him whatis the farthest, uh, what is
your farthest next adventureclimbing a mountain?
And he told me fuji mountain injapan.
And I said I'm coming.
So I was so excited and what Irealized before that that
allowed me to climb the mountainwas I was prepared, uh,
(02:33):
prepared in advance in order toto climb uh, to climb Fuji.
Unless I was not prepared, Iwould have uh not able, uh have
not been able to climb themountain.
Tim (02:49):
So what did you learn about yourself in terms of that
preparation and what was itactually like throughout the
process of climbing a mountain?
Because I've never done it, butI can't imagine like there's
just a regular walking path.
You just stroll up the mountainand there you go.
What was that like?
Vesela (03:10):
Yeah, one of the lessons I've learned for myself you
have to be prepared forsurprises and no matter how much
you have prepared yourself inadvance, you have to be able to
meet surprises and unforeseencircumstances.
Because what happened to uswhen we started climbing?
(03:31):
Actually we did a nightclimbing.
We started at nine o'clock inthe evening so we wanted to
reach out the sunrise in themorning.
It was like 345 or somethinglike this, I don't remember
exactly, but we did it throughthe night, the climbing, and the
moment we started climbing itbecame raining.
(03:51):
So we were not prepared.
Yeah, we were prepared with this, with raincoats, but actually
we were not prepared to haverain.
We knew we prepared theraincoats, but we didn't expect
it.
So it was raining from the veryfirst step until the end.
So what we did throughout ourclimbing is that we stopped at
(04:13):
somewhere, so we were not ableto reach out the mountain, the
peak, for the sunrise, but itwas the best decision.
So what I've learned is nomatter how I'm prepared, we have
to be prepared for surprisesand unforeseen circumstances and
to be able to act accordinglyBecause we can say okay, we came
(04:40):
here, we traveled so long inorder to see the sunrise from
the peak in the morning.
But what is more important tosee the sunrise or to become
alive and safe?
Tim (04:52):
Safe and alive.
Vesela (04:54):
Yes, yeah, because there were people who were very cold
and if we haven't stopped andwarmed ourselves, it could have
been very bad for them.
And we were a big group, like25 people, so it's important to
be able to meet the unforeseencircumstances, but you are only
(05:18):
able to meet unforeseencircumstances if you were
prepared before thatcircumstances if you were
prepared before that.
Tim (05:28):
Yeah, that's a lesson, I guess, in life and pretty much
everything that we do.
And you know, climbingmountains is one thing you've
got to be prepared because of,obviously, you know safety and
life-threatening issues and allthose other things that come
along with it.
But you know, just from apublic speaking perspective, you
know things happen.
You know you may loseelectricity, you may lose, you
(05:52):
know the projector may go off.
You know I've donepresentations on a cruise ship
and fire alarms go off and wehave to evacuate and go out on
the deck.
I mean.
So you just have to be able tobe flexible but, like you said,
be prepared for those types ofthings, come up and be able to
adjust and move on.
Vesela (06:13):
Yeah, it's exactly.
I loved your comparison becausewith public speaking it is
exactly the same.
You prepare for something, butsomething unexpected might
happen and you have to have theconfidence to act accordingly.
And recently I had a situation.
(06:34):
I was a public speaker for aninternational conference.
It was online.
I joined online for 30 minutespresent speech and it was
supposed to be at 10.30 in themorning, my time.
But at some point the organizerasked me would you be able to
(06:55):
join earlier?
Because something is.
I need to help them.
So at this point I was preparedwell in advance and I was able
to act and to react and to helpthem.
So at this point I was preparedwell in advance and I was able
to act and to react and to helpthem.
So it's all about thepreparation.
If you fail in the preparation,you will fail in the public
(07:16):
speaking and you will not beable to act accordingly.
As you said, the fire alarm wason, so this might destroy you,
this might destroy your presence.
So the more confident you arebefore the actual speech, the
(07:38):
better you can act during thespeech.
Tim (07:41):
Absolutely In preparation.
I like that.
You said you prepared for thathike up the speech.
Yeah, absolutely.
And preparation, like I likethat you said you know you
prepared for that hike up themountain.
But I think anything that we'regoing to be good at doesn't
really matter.
Whatever it is.
You have to prepare, you haveto practice, you have to put the
work in at the beginning toever really be good at it.
Vesela (08:03):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
This is really really right.
You have to prepare, and this Iexperienced in the corporate
world as well.
If I'm not prepared, I cannotmeet the expectations of the
client I'm working with In thecorporate world.
As a financial auditor, Iaudited big companies and I
(08:24):
interviewed many people likefrom finance directors, ceos,
different people and if I'm notprepared in advance, I would not
be able to have a goodinterview and to take the
information I need from them.
Tim (08:37):
Yeah.
So, bessie, talk a little bitabout your public speaking
journey.
You know, do you have any?
You know, embarrassing momentsthat stick out?
You know, for me, you know Itell a story, a lot that you
know, when I first started, Ithrew up in front of everybody,
you know, and and I you know, soI you know.
I think it's important that thatthat everybody understands
(08:58):
number one it's okay you, youhave to grow and move on from it
, but but you have any, you knowembarrassing moments, that kind
of stick out to you.
Vesela (09:07):
Yeah, actually, at the beginning of my journey with
public speaking and I alwaystell people that if you talk in
front of one person, this isalready a public, so it's
already a public speaking.
So I was very shy when I was akid.
I was very shy public speaking,so I was very shy.
(09:28):
When I was a kid, I was veryshy.
And I remember in the schoolwhen the teacher was examining
me and I had to speak in frontof other students, I was very,
very shy and I was veryembarrassed.
So when I start, if I unless Ihave learned everything by heart
I was not able to speak and onething I'm experiencing while I
(09:49):
was speaking at the beginning,it was like I become red, my
face become red, I'm very hotand, yeah, it is very
embarrassing.
By the way, when you become redand you need to speak in front
of the audience, you cannotpeople see this, so this makes
(10:10):
you even being more embarrassed.
But what I've learned and thiswas at the beginning but what
I've learned is it's all aboutpractice.
The moment you start practicing, this is the way you can
overcome this.
It's always when I have publicspeaking, I'm a little bit
(10:30):
excited, but it's a differentway and very quickly I'm in
control.
So at the beginning this wasthe biggest embarrassment for me
, that when I'm shy I become redand my face is becoming red and
everybody can see that I'm shyand I'm embarrassed and I don't
(10:52):
know what to do and what to say.
But obviously, go ahead, goahead.
Yeah, and the thing is,although I was shy, I was always
prepared.
So no matter I was shy, I wasprepared what I want to say.
And after the firstembarrassment, let's say first
(11:12):
few minutes or let's say fiveminutes, it depends on the
speech.
And then I say I'm takingcontrol at everything, get in
place.
So again we are coming back tothe preparation side, because I
always was preparing myself.
I never joined the publicspeaking, public speech or
(11:35):
discussion or anything in publicwithout me being prepared.
Tim (11:42):
Yeah, I think you nailed it .
It all comes back topreparation and, at least from
my perspective, if you're notconfident in what you're doing,
it really comes back to.
You probably haven't, the moreconfident you are with it.
And again, I come from a sportbackground.
You know, no team or individualgoes out to a competition
(12:10):
without practicing.
You know, without knowing whatthe game plan is, without
knowing you know thestep-by-step things that they
want to do.
And to me, public speaking isreally the same thing.
You have to practice, you haveto do the research.
And again, when I talk aboutpractice, I'm not talking about
just sitting down reading yournotes, I'm talking about
actually doing the presentation.
(12:31):
you know in front of a mirror,in front of a camera, in front
of other people, those types ofthings, it's so important, yeah,
and often people they areafraid of doing the first step.
Vesela (12:45):
When I did a transition from the corporate world when I
was employed to the entrepreneurworld when I became my own
employer and I started doing mycoaching business, it's very
much related to public speaking,to doing lots of videos in the
social media, expressing myideas to people through speaking
(13:08):
videos and other listening.
Not only video, but what I wasasked at the beginning.
One of my teachers told mementors, not teachers.
One of my mentors told me youhave to start speak, like switch
(13:29):
on the phone, open the, put iton video mode and start speaking
.
Just, you have to start.
And at the beginning I waspreparing so many hours what to
say, how to say, because I waspostponing the moment to start
speaking in front of the publicand the moment I did it one time
(13:53):
, then I see it, I saw it's not,it's not so scary because
people say that public speakingis more scary than the death.
Yeah, yeah, and people are veryscared when they have to speak
in front than the deaf.
Yeah, yeah, and people are veryscared when they have to speak
in front of the public.
And, by the way, when I workwith lots of people,
(14:13):
individually, in groups, and nowI'm a mentor to students,
people who are in the last gradein the high school, and one of
the things they're saying theywant to excel.
One of the skills is exactly tolearn how to speak in front of
the public and how to assertthemselves in public, because
(14:36):
people are shy, they don't knowwhat to say, how to say so.
This is one of the most famousproblems people face.
Tim (14:48):
Yeah, and the reality is the majority of people are shy
and introverted like us, and ifwe can learn to just be who we
are and get over some of thosethings, like you said, just
actually start the process, justdo it and do the baby steps it
(15:10):
becomes.
It still works, but it becomeseasier.
You do it once.
It becomes easier to do it.
The second time, you know I waslast night I was at a
networking function, which to me, being an introvert, is oh, I
hate going to them, butobviously it's part of what we
have to do.
Right, sometimes in life youjust have to do things that we
(15:31):
don't like to do, and it's Iwork myself up going in there.
But as soon as I get in thereand I start talking to people
which you know, if I'm in frontof people and talk to them, it's
great, all that goes away.
So you just have to just putyourself out there, do the
uncomfortable things, and goodthings come from that.
Vesela (15:51):
Yeah, I love what you say just to be who you are, and
this is one of the thingspractically I'm teaching people
who come to me and want my helpto learn them how to speak with
confidence about theirthemselves who you are, what you
do, why you do what you do uh,why you are here.
(16:14):
So if you work with yourselffor your self-awareness, who you
are, why you do the things youare doing, this will help you
for the public speaking as well.
Why you do this speech, why youare.
This will help you for thepublic speaking as well.
Why you do this speech, why youare on that stage.
If you have an answer of allthose questions, this definitely
will help you to be a betterpresenter and a better speaker,
(16:35):
because you better know why I'mhere and usually people, when
they go on stage, they, insteadof sharing their experience,
they want to impress theaudience, and this is where they
get wrong, because when youwant to impress somebody, your
focus, your focus is on thealert award, on the medal, on
(16:56):
the final result, and you missto to be who you are and to see
the path that you're actuallythe road.
It's not about the focus on theresult, but what type of
presenter you may become throughthat speech.
So every other speech helps youto grow as a person and as a
(17:23):
speaker and, unless you'retrying to impress other people,
just share who you are.
What is your experience, whyyou are here?
Of course you have to structureyour presentation, understand
your audience, who is there, whythey're.
They came to listen to you allthose technical things you need
to mind in order to have a goodspeech, but the basic principle
(17:48):
is to share your experience andto show who you are, not to
impress other people.
Tim (17:54):
Exactly, and that whole idea of you know people judging
you.
They're not judging you,they're not even thinking about
you.
They're thinking about who'sjudging them.
Right, and it's that impostersyndrome.
You know you're on that stageor you have that position.
You have that job where you'releading this team for a reason
(18:15):
you know you're.
You know the the theorganization didn't hire you
because they wanted to fail.
They hired you because youbrought certain skills and
abilities and knowledge andperspective and they want you to
be able to share that.
So, so embrace it and that'sthat.
That's you know.
I think, especially with, with,with the younger generations
(18:39):
today, I think, for any numberof reasons, they put so much
emphasis and thought on whatother people are thinking about
them, when the reality isthey're not even really thinking
about it.
Vesela (18:54):
Yeah, actually there are two very important things.
It's the opinion on otherpeople, so we need their
validation of the other people,what they would have said.
I have to be perfect, I have tobe great.
But the other important thingis other young people.
They just started and they wantfrom the first try to be at the
(19:18):
highest, uh at the at the peak.
They want to be at the fujimountain at the peak, like they
just started, but they want toclimb the mountain and what I've
shared at the beginning Iclimbed, climbed other mountains
before I started this one.
So people want to get uh, mostof the successful people when
(19:39):
they reach their peak and theirsuccess.
They went through many, manychallenges and the road was long
.
But young people want to get tothe end right away and they
don't realize you cannot getthere right, right away.
You cannot become a goodspeaker unless you speak many,
many times and you failsometimes from out of those many
(20:02):
, many times.
But they just want to be thebest speaker in the first speech
and there is no help.
And actually this was the samewith me.
I want, I wanted to be perfect.
That's why I didn't want tostart doing videos at the
beginning of my coaching careerbecause I wanted to be the best.
I said, if sees me, I want himto see the perfect me, the best
(20:23):
version of me, and I have toprepare for the best version.
But yeah, and I understandthose people because I have been
in their shoes, I was therealready.
Yeah, but there is no shortcut.
People often ask me do you have, is there any shortcut to
anything?
I said no, there is no shortcut.
People often ask me do you have, is there any shortcut to
anything?
I said no, there is no shortcut.
You cannot get to the Everestor to Fuji like shortcut.
(20:47):
You just need to start from thebottom of the below the peak
and start climbing step by step.
There is no shortcut.
Tim (21:05):
Yeah, and people spend more time trying to take shortcuts
to get things done than if theyjust follow the step-by-step
process, follow the path anddoing the work, and it's.
It's funny sometimes when theycome back and look at you and
say, well, I shouldn't justlisten to you, well, you
probably should have but, butbut you are now, so let's just
get busy and and and work ongetting better.
I mean, there's no sense inlooking backwards, just forwards
(21:26):
and and and just start beingawesome.
Let's just go ahead and getstuff done, you know so.
So taking shortcuts I think isis is one of the biggest
misconceptions, um, that peoplehave about building confidence
and stepping outside theircomfort zones were some others.
Vesela (21:44):
Yeah, one very important thing is the competence.
Unless you're competent in whatyou're talking about, you will
not succeed in your publicspeech or public presentation or
whatever it is.
Competence is very importantand, again, you cannot be a
competent person like for oneday.
(22:06):
You build your competence dayby day, month after month, year
after year, and so, unlessyou're competent, you cannot
have a good presentation.
So, unless you're competent,you cannot have a good
presentation.
And another very important thingis the inner dialogue that you
have with yourself, becauseoften people have that inner
(22:30):
dialogue that is sabotaging them, inner dialogue that is against
them.
This is the criticizer who issaying you will not succeed,
you're not prepared enough,you're not good enough.
But if people activate thechampion in their mind because
in our mind we have champion andcriticizer, or, uh, the, the
(22:51):
one who is sabotaging is us.
So if you active, activate the,the champion in your mind, the
one who is saying I can do it,I'm learning, this is part of my
growth, this is how you willbecome a better speaker and a
better presenter.
(23:12):
Every speech is part of yourgrowth as a good speaker.
And even if this speech is afailure in your eyes, you think
you didn't do it great or theway you wanted.
This still learned you and is astep in the way of your growth
(23:38):
to become a good speaker.
So prepare in terms of beingcompetent on topics that you're
talking about.
(24:02):
And the other thing just silencethe criticizer and activate
your champion in your mind andchange your inner dialogue.
Change it with positive things.
But it's not that toxicpositive things, because toxic
positivity people are.
Often people are like toxicpositive.
They're, they're angry or theydon't like and they're.
It's not about to be toxicpositive, it's about to to
encourage yourself.
(24:23):
You can do it, you are, youhave prepared yourself for so
long.
You're capable person, you'regood enough, somebody has
invited you there.
So this type of dialogue thatis genuine, genuine, um,
authentic and positive.
It's not like you're best,you're the best one.
(24:43):
It's not about this.
It's about the encouragementthat you can do it and you're
good enough in order to do it.
Tim (24:51):
Yeah, and I think that's such a good point.
And I think, to take that justone step further, it's also who
we surround ourselves with, too,right, I mean, I think you know
, on one hand, you know we asindividuals we want people to
tell us how great we are, butyou don't want to surround
yourself with people who'salways telling you that how
(25:13):
great you are.
We really need people to behonest with us and say you know
what, tim, you messed up here.
This is what you need to workon.
Or you know why?
Don't you try doing these typesof things?
You're good at this, but youshould probably start working on
this.
Or you should, you know, doother things to get better,
(25:33):
because if we surround ourselveswith people that are telling us
how great we are all the time,number one, we're never really
growing and we don't ever reallyknow if we're good at something
or not.
Vesela (25:45):
Exactly, and actually I have a training on public
speaking and recently I've got aclient from corporate world
where she wanted to improve herpublic speaking skills skills
and when it was when we get tothe point, how to ask for
feedback from the audience, fromthe participant or for her
(26:05):
peers or for her boss when shewas presenting anything, um, uh,
it's uh.
It's very important to be ableto ask appropriately feedback,
because sometimes the way we askfeedback, we are just expecting
to hear something good and thisis how the person will give us
a feedback.
He will tell us something good,but he will not tell us the
(26:26):
real story, the real thing hethinks.
That's why it's very importantreally to be open to ask for an
honest feedback, because I knowpeople who are public speakers.
They go to various events andthey believe they are very, very
good speakers and like theyreach the ceiling and there is
(26:51):
no more where they can improvethemselves.
But when we get to that point,this is the first step before we
are failing, because if youthink that there is nowhere you
can, you reach the ceiling andyou cannot grow anymore.
You're the best and the greatthat's actually.
(27:13):
You don't know where you are atthe moment.
It's very important to be awarewhat is your starting point at
the moment in terms of publicspeaking.
Am I confident enough or I'mnot confident enough?
And if I'm not confident enoughand I'm honest and open to
acknowledge this in front ofmyself, this is the first step
(27:36):
to improve.
But if I say I'm confidentenough but you are not, so you
will not improve yourself.
So, not asking not being ableto ask about feedback, but being
open to hear honest and realfeedback from the other side.
It's really, really important.
Tim (28:01):
It is.
And again I go back to, youknow my background in the sport
industry.
You know, if you look at someof the all-time greats in sport
and in their position theyalways worked hard, I mean up
until they retired and I guesseven post that, you know,
working on basic skills, tryingto get better, hiring coaches to
(28:24):
help them get better andimprove, and if we can see the
best of the best trying toimprove, it doesn't really make
a whole lot of sense why we, asand I air-freak sense, why you
know why we, as, as you know,air fingers, quote you know
regular people, why why are wethinking that we're the best at
something and not trying to getbetter?
(28:45):
You know, I say I think that's,I think there's a fine line in
in obsession and and and andtruly trying to improve at our
craft.
Vesela (29:02):
Actually, the confident mind is the open mind.
Everyone who is confident, heis open to learn and he knows
that he doesn't know everything.
But he doesn't mean that he'snot confident, open to learn and
(29:28):
he's open to the audience.
Because when you are not openthis is a state of mind you will
not be able to be open for theaudience and you will not know
who is the audience and what theaudience is expecting from you.
And usually those people are,they're more talking to
themselves rather than talkingto the audience exactly because
they're so no, go ahead, goahead, you're good.
(29:49):
I wanted to say because they'reso in love with their way of
speaking so they cannot hearother people and what they want.
Yeah, this is another thingthat I observed in public
speaking.
Tim (30:05):
So let's go to the opposite end of the spectrum.
You know how do we help peoplebuild confidence if they've got,
you know, low self-esteem.
If you know, if you're tooconfident that's bad, but if
you're not confident enough andyou have low self-esteem, how do
we help those people get betterand build that long-lasting
(30:28):
confidence?
Vesela (30:31):
Yeah, the first step is to sit down and say, okay, where
I am at the moment, which is mypoint A, which is my starting
point, where I am at the moment.
Then the next thing is where Iwant to go.
If I want to excel my publicspeaking skills, where I want to
go?
If I want to excel my publicspeaking skills, where I want to
go To have a goal which ischallenging and achievable at
(30:53):
the same time.
Because if you set a goal thatis not achievable for you, you
don't have those skills or youdon't have talents in this, you
will not achieve your goal, youdon't have talents in this, you
will not achieve, uh, uh,achieve your goal.
So you have to know your pointa, then what is your point b and
(31:14):
then what are the uh, the, theuh, the steps towards this.
And one very important thing youjust need to start and act.
People do not act.
Unless you act, you cannotachieve anything.
So someone really needs tostart and do some actions.
It could be small steps.
(31:35):
It could be talking to a smallaudience it's a video or talking
to himself in front of themirror.
It could be something verysmall.
Often, people have limitingbeliefs, limiting beliefs that
limits them and they fear ofspeaking in front of the public.
(31:56):
What other people will say whatmy mom would say?
My dad would say my spouse?
So we have to identify if thereis any limiting belief this
person has and if there is alimiting belief, we need to
identify and find a way how toovercome that limiting belief.
Tim (32:15):
It's it's very important and yeah, you know, a lot of
times, you know, we talk a lotabout the whole idea of our
inner dialogue, which causessome of those limiting beliefs,
but we really can't forget aboutthe individuals that have had
outside trauma, whether that bephysical or mental, that have
(32:35):
caused other types of limitingbeliefs, and understand that
they can be helped and that wecan get them from where they are
to a more confident place andactually believing that they are
worthy, that they can becomegood and successful at things.
Vesela (32:54):
Actually, you opened the question for asking for help.
Lots of people don't ask forhelp and there are many, many
people.
They believe they can do it bythemselves and they have to do
it by themselves.
And they have to do it bythemselves and it might because
they've been educated from theirparents like this, or their
parents has been very demandingfrom them.
(33:15):
But many, many people still donot ask for help.
They believe it expected fromthem and they're trying to do by
themselves.
But if you have some personaldrama or trauma from the past,
you cannot overcome it byyourself.
And this is where you have tobe, to have the confidence to
ask for help, because help willmake you be more powerful.
(33:41):
It's not that you cannot dothings.
It's not that you're notcapable.
It's about you become morecapable.
And very often people makecomparisons.
So the brain works in a way.
The first thing the brain doeswhen new information is, when
the brain processes newinformation, is to make
(34:02):
comparison.
Make comparison to previoustimes, make comparisons to make
comparison, make comparison toprevious times, make comparisons
to other people, and when youmake a comparison to somebody or
something, you don't allow toyourself to do it in a unique
way because you compare it tothe previous time and when you
compare it, what you're doingthis time is exactly what has
(34:26):
happened in the previous time.
And if you're comparing tosomeone else who is already a
good speaker, you work againstyour confidence, because you see
the success of that person butyou don't see the road to the
success of that person, and thatroad has had challenges and
issues and failures and thingslike this.
(34:49):
So I would say to everybody whowants to improve his speaking
skills, to speak with confidence, to be confident enough to ask
for help.
Tim (35:00):
I really like that.
You said it's how important itis to ask for help because,
again, nobody gets to besuccessful without help and
without relationships.
I mean because I believe thateverything that we do,
relationships are the key tothat and having good
relationships with people to beable to help each other get to
(35:25):
wherever it is that you want tobe.
And you know in the past youand I have talked about, you
know, the four differentarchetypes that you talk about
in your training.
How important is it to know orhave an understanding of what
those archetypes are in yourselfand in other people?
Vesela (35:43):
Actually, this is very important when it comes to
speaking with confidence,because the four archetypes the
four archetypes speaks in adifferent way.
For example, one of those isthe sovereign, is the person who
is very direct, he's very.
Sometimes he might beaggressive.
He's very proactive and he'shonest and open.
(36:06):
Aggressive, he is veryproactive and he is honest and
open.
He see things in white and forhim the things are white and
black.
But the opposite archetype is aperson who is, he's like a
magician.
He likes to take lots ofstories.
So people who are magicians,they they speak true stories and
if you hear someone explainthings through story, definitely
(36:31):
he's a magician.
And, for example, people whoare sovereigns, they don't like
too many details, they don'tlike somebody to waste their
time, they want to talk straightto the point, unlike magicians
who like to explain many details.
Where they've been, what hashappened, it's a long, long
(36:51):
story.
So imagine if you're in acorporate world or somewhere
else and one is a sovereign, theother is a magician and they
don't know about each other'stype.
If I'm a sovereign, for example, and in a corporate world, when
people are talking with so manydetails, they are not just get
(37:13):
to the point.
It's very disturbing for me.
I want to.
I don't have time.
I want to talk up straight tothe point and to get to the
basic point, because you divertfrom the basic point and in
public speaking it's veryimportant If you.
Very often people have preparedfor the public speak and
(37:36):
they're speaking in front of thepublic and they get to a story
and they start thinking aboutsomething and from this story
they go to another story, butthis another story is a complete
diversion from the main pointfor the public speak.
So this is very often I noticeit when I'm teaching public
speaking and when I listen topeople they just go to many
(37:58):
directions which could be verydisturbing for the audience.
And the other two archetypes isthe warrior, the person who is
again straight to the point,very strict, very direct, and
the other person is the lover,the person who wants everybody
(38:19):
to be happy, to please everybody, to please everybody in the
audience.
I've got a lady who was myclient in public speaking and
she was speaking.
So when she was speaking,either in front of her team or
in front of a broader public,she was concerned what
everybody's thinking, whetherthey're happy, whether they're
(38:41):
not happy.
So she's over-caring People whoare lovers.
They're over caring for otherpeople, but when you are over
caring, you don't allow theother person to act and to be
himself.
When you're over caring, youoccupy his or her space.
So knowing about the fourarchetypes is key when it comes
(39:04):
to public speaking, when wespeak one-on-one, when we speak
in front of a small group, whenwe speak in front of the
audience.
Because when you know whatarchetypes are you, you know
what you can put at risk.
For example, magicians can gointo many stories and can waste
(39:24):
their time in many stories andthey would not be able to finish
their speech properly.
So they could be very directand very one, two, three, four
and people cannot feel the storyand the magic in what they are
talking about.
So once you know what archetypeare you are talking about.
(39:51):
So once you know what archetypeare you, you can work on
adopting the traits of the otherarchetypes, because every
person has the four archetypes,but everyone has a predominant
one.
And when you know what is yourpredominant one, you can work
adopting the traits of the otherarchetypes.
And this is not only importantfor yourself, but it's important
.
Once you know more about thosearchetypes, you'll be able to
(40:14):
understand much more better theperson with whom you're speaking
with.
So you automatically understandbetter the person with whom
you're speaking at this specificmoment and you'll be speaking
with confidence.
I can assure you that you willspeak much more confidently than
(40:35):
before.
Tim (40:39):
Yeah, it's so important to know who again, to know who you
are and how you communicate andhow you think, but it's also so
important to understand theother people that you're
communicating with the audienceand understand how they not only
you know receive thatinformation, but how they're
going to process it and thencarry that information on down
(41:01):
the road.
And again, that comes with workand practice, just like
everything else that we'vetalked about today.
Yeah, yeah.
Vesela (41:12):
Actually the speaker has to be interested in the
audience, why the audience isthere, what they want to learn,
why they came here.
So unless the speaker isinterested, genuinely interested
(41:32):
, in his audience, he will notbe able to attract the audience.
Very often the audience we havevarious types of people in the
audience.
We have people who don't knowabout the topic we are talking
about at all.
There are people who knowsomething about the topic and
there are people who are verywell aware of the topic.
(41:54):
So we have to be able tosatisfy the need of every one of
those three groups.
So to be able to give basicinformation for those who don't
doesn't know anything, to givemore information for those who
don't doesn't know anything, togive more information for those
who know something and for thosewho are proficient.
Let's say like this we have togive even more, and that's why
(42:17):
knowing who is our audience isvery important and to shift the
focus from us to the audience.
This is very important and veryoften people who are good
speakers and they speak a lotand they become very confident
and very self, high self-esteemon how they speak.
They know that people listen tothem, they lose the focus and
(42:39):
sometimes they're speaking tothemselves.
You have the feeling they speakto themselves, but they don't
speak to you Exactly.
Tim (42:47):
Exactly.
I'm actually thinking of somepeople that do that now.
But that's great advice.
Understands that?
Again, there's that happymedium where you know that you
(43:11):
know the information but beinghumble enough to share it with,
like you said, everybody in thataudience so that everybody in
the audience gets what they wantout of the talk, the speech,
the meeting, the interview,whatever situation or scenario
that you're in.
Vesela (43:31):
Yes, and this is another point, because sometimes you
might do the best investigationin the beginning what is your
audience?
But at the end of the day, youhave to be able to fill the
audience.
Yeah, you investigated it, butyou're exactly there and the
very right time.
You have to be able to fill theaudience and to be able to
change.
This is all about goodpreparation and competence and
(43:54):
practice, because in order toact accordingly and to change
your mind or to change what tosay in this very moment, you
need to be very um experiencedfor this and very sensitive for
this.
Tim (44:09):
And we've just come full circle.
You know, talk about being ableto adapt and change, and I want
to fly, and, again, the onlyway that you can do that is
through, you know, yourpreparation.
Yeah, and your preparation andyour practice before?
Vesela (44:27):
Yeah, true, and your preparation and your practice
before that Exactly so, bessie.
Tim (44:32):
Where can people find you if they want to work with you?
Vesela (44:36):
Yeah, they can visit my website, which is
wwwbesselamanganacom, or theycan use my name, bessela Mangana
, in all social media LinkedIn,facebook, instagram, youtube so,
using my name, they can find methere.
They can write me an email orwrite me a direct message and I
(45:00):
will be happy to help them ifthey want to speak about
themselves with more confidence.
Tim (45:07):
Well, veseli, thank you so much and I'll put those links in
the show notes for everybody.
But I really do appreciate youtake some time with us today and
I know our audience is going tolove this episode.
So, again, thank you so muchand we'll talk to you soon.
Vesela (45:20):
Yeah, thank you very much for inviting me.
It was a pleasure for me.
Tim (45:24):
Be sure to visit speakingwithconfidencepodcastcom
to join our growing communityand register for the Formula for
Public Speaking course.
Always remember your voice hasthe power to change the world.
We'll talk to you next time,Take care.
Welcome to Speaking with Confidence, a podcast that's
here to help you unlock thepower of effective public
speaking.
I'm your host, tim Newman, andI'm excited to take you on a
journey to become a betterpublic speaker.
Today's guest, vesla Mangana,is a business coach and mentor
with 13 years of corporatefinance experience at Ernst
Young in both the United Statesand Bulgaria.
She is a senior trainer ofPeter Sage and facilitates his
(00:31):
six-month personaltransformation program called
Elite Mentorship Forum.
Basila graduated from WarwickUniversity in the United Kingdom
.
Her mission is to help peoplefind their purpose in life and
live their authentic self.
Kingdom Her mission is to helppeople find their purpose in
life and live their authenticself.
Her biggest achievement so faris climbing Mount Fuji in Japan
with a height of 3,776 meters,which is almost 13,000 feet.
(00:58):
Vesla number one, that's agreat accomplishment.
Vesela (01:00):
but welcome to the show.
So glad to have you on, Thankyou.
Thank you, Tim.
I'm very happy that I'm guestwith you in your podcast.
Speaking with Confidence, it'smy pleasure.
Tim (01:08):
We're going to have a good time today and you know we're
going to talk a lot aboutbuilding and developing
confidence with you.
But first I really want to hearabout this experience you had
climbing Mount Fuji.
You know what brought you tothat decision to do that.
What was it like?
What was the training like?
What was the experience like?
Vesela (01:28):
Yeah, actually this is a graduate decision, so it was
not like I wake up one morningand I said I want to climb Fuji
Mountain.
I start first with other peaks,other mountains, with other
peaks, other mountains.
I climbed most of the bigmountains in Bulgaria and I
(01:49):
climbed big hills in Bulgaria,like lots of them, and like five
, six mountains.
I did different mountainsclimbings during the winter as
well, when there is lots of snow.
So I prepared for this and oneday, with the guy I was climbing
(02:13):
the mountain, I asked him whatis the farthest, uh, what is
your farthest next adventureclimbing a mountain?
And he told me fuji mountain injapan.
And I said I'm coming.
So I was so excited and what Irealized before that that
allowed me to climb the mountainwas I was prepared, uh,
(02:33):
prepared in advance in order toto climb uh, to climb Fuji.
Unless I was not prepared, Iwould have uh not able, uh have
not been able to climb themountain.
Tim (02:49):
So what did you learn about yourself in terms of that
preparation and what was itactually like throughout the
process of climbing a mountain?
Because I've never done it, butI can't imagine like there's
just a regular walking path.
You just stroll up the mountainand there you go.
What was that like?
Vesela (03:10):
Yeah, one of the lessons I've learned for myself you
have to be prepared forsurprises and no matter how much
you have prepared yourself inadvance, you have to be able to
meet surprises and unforeseencircumstances.
Because what happened to uswhen we started climbing?
(03:31):
Actually we did a nightclimbing.
We started at nine o'clock inthe evening so we wanted to
reach out the sunrise in themorning.
It was like 345 or somethinglike this, I don't remember
exactly, but we did it throughthe night, the climbing, and the
moment we started climbing itbecame raining.
(03:51):
So we were not prepared.
Yeah, we were prepared with this, with raincoats, but actually
we were not prepared to haverain.
We knew we prepared theraincoats, but we didn't expect
it.
So it was raining from the veryfirst step until the end.
So what we did throughout ourclimbing is that we stopped at
(04:13):
somewhere, so we were not ableto reach out the mountain, the
peak, for the sunrise, but itwas the best decision.
So what I've learned is nomatter how I'm prepared, we have
to be prepared for surprisesand unforeseen circumstances and
to be able to act accordinglyBecause we can say okay, we came
(04:40):
here, we traveled so long inorder to see the sunrise from
the peak in the morning.
But what is more important tosee the sunrise or to become
alive and safe?
Tim (04:52):
Safe and alive.
Vesela (04:54):
Yes, yeah, because there were people who were very cold
and if we haven't stopped andwarmed ourselves, it could have
been very bad for them.
And we were a big group, like25 people, so it's important to
be able to meet the unforeseencircumstances, but you are only
(05:18):
able to meet unforeseencircumstances if you were
prepared before thatcircumstances if you were
prepared before that.
Tim (05:28):
Yeah, that's a lesson, I guess, in life and pretty much
everything that we do.
And you know, climbingmountains is one thing you've
got to be prepared because of,obviously, you know safety and
life-threatening issues and allthose other things that come
along with it.
But you know, just from apublic speaking perspective, you
know things happen.
You know you may loseelectricity, you may lose, you
(05:52):
know the projector may go off.
You know I've donepresentations on a cruise ship
and fire alarms go off and wehave to evacuate and go out on
the deck.
I mean.
So you just have to be able tobe flexible but, like you said,
be prepared for those types ofthings, come up and be able to
adjust and move on.
Vesela (06:13):
Yeah, it's exactly.
I loved your comparison becausewith public speaking it is
exactly the same.
You prepare for something, butsomething unexpected might
happen and you have to have theconfidence to act accordingly.
And recently I had a situation.
(06:34):
I was a public speaker for aninternational conference.
It was online.
I joined online for 30 minutespresent speech and it was
supposed to be at 10.30 in themorning, my time.
But at some point the organizerasked me would you be able to
(06:55):
join earlier?
Because something is.
I need to help them.
So at this point I was preparedwell in advance and I was able
to act and to react and to helpthem.
So at this point I was preparedwell in advance and I was able
to act and to react and to helpthem.
So it's all about thepreparation.
If you fail in the preparation,you will fail in the public
(07:16):
speaking and you will not beable to act accordingly.
As you said, the fire alarm wason, so this might destroy you,
this might destroy your presence.
So the more confident you arebefore the actual speech, the
(07:38):
better you can act during thespeech.
Tim (07:41):
Absolutely In preparation.
I like that.
You said you prepared for thathike up the speech.
Yeah, absolutely.
And preparation, like I likethat you said you know you
prepared for that hike up themountain.
But I think anything that we'regoing to be good at doesn't
really matter.
Whatever it is.
You have to prepare, you haveto practice, you have to put the
work in at the beginning toever really be good at it.
Vesela (08:03):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
This is really really right.
You have to prepare, and this Iexperienced in the corporate
world as well.
If I'm not prepared, I cannotmeet the expectations of the
client I'm working with In thecorporate world.
As a financial auditor, Iaudited big companies and I
(08:24):
interviewed many people likefrom finance directors, ceos,
different people and if I'm notprepared in advance, I would not
be able to have a goodinterview and to take the
information I need from them.
Tim (08:37):
Yeah.
So, bessie, talk a little bitabout your public speaking
journey.
You know, do you have any?
You know, embarrassing momentsthat stick out?
You know, for me, you know Itell a story, a lot that you
know, when I first started, Ithrew up in front of everybody,
you know, and and I you know, soI you know.
I think it's important that thatthat everybody understands
(08:58):
number one it's okay you, youhave to grow and move on from it
, but but you have any, you knowembarrassing moments, that kind
of stick out to you.
Vesela (09:07):
Yeah, actually, at the beginning of my journey with
public speaking and I alwaystell people that if you talk in
front of one person, this isalready a public, so it's
already a public speaking.
So I was very shy when I was akid.
I was very shy public speaking,so I was very shy.
(09:28):
When I was a kid, I was veryshy.
And I remember in the schoolwhen the teacher was examining
me and I had to speak in frontof other students, I was very,
very shy and I was veryembarrassed.
So when I start, if I unless Ihave learned everything by heart
I was not able to speak and onething I'm experiencing while I
(09:49):
was speaking at the beginning,it was like I become red, my
face become red, I'm very hotand, yeah, it is very
embarrassing.
By the way, when you become redand you need to speak in front
of the audience, you cannotpeople see this, so this makes
(10:10):
you even being more embarrassed.
But what I've learned and thiswas at the beginning but what
I've learned is it's all aboutpractice.
The moment you start practicing, this is the way you can
overcome this.
It's always when I have publicspeaking, I'm a little bit
(10:30):
excited, but it's a differentway and very quickly I'm in
control.
So at the beginning this wasthe biggest embarrassment for me
, that when I'm shy I become redand my face is becoming red and
everybody can see that I'm shyand I'm embarrassed and I don't
(10:52):
know what to do and what to say.
But obviously, go ahead, goahead.
Yeah, and the thing is,although I was shy, I was always
prepared.
So no matter I was shy, I wasprepared what I want to say.
And after the firstembarrassment, let's say first
(11:12):
few minutes or let's say fiveminutes, it depends on the
speech.
And then I say I'm takingcontrol at everything, get in
place.
So again we are coming back tothe preparation side, because I
always was preparing myself.
I never joined the publicspeaking, public speech or
(11:35):
discussion or anything in publicwithout me being prepared.
Tim (11:42):
Yeah, I think you nailed it .
It all comes back topreparation and, at least from
my perspective, if you're notconfident in what you're doing,
it really comes back to.
You probably haven't, the moreconfident you are with it.
And again, I come from a sportbackground.
You know, no team or individualgoes out to a competition
(12:10):
without practicing.
You know, without knowing whatthe game plan is, without
knowing you know thestep-by-step things that they
want to do.
And to me, public speaking isreally the same thing.
You have to practice, you haveto do the research.
And again, when I talk aboutpractice, I'm not talking about
just sitting down reading yournotes, I'm talking about
actually doing the presentation.
(12:31):
you know in front of a mirror,in front of a camera, in front
of other people, those types ofthings, it's so important, yeah,
and often people they areafraid of doing the first step.
Vesela (12:45):
When I did a transition from the corporate world when I
was employed to the entrepreneurworld when I became my own
employer and I started doing mycoaching business, it's very
much related to public speaking,to doing lots of videos in the
social media, expressing myideas to people through speaking
(13:08):
videos and other listening.
Not only video, but what I wasasked at the beginning.
One of my teachers told mementors, not teachers.
One of my mentors told me youhave to start speak, like switch
(13:29):
on the phone, open the, put iton video mode and start speaking
.
Just, you have to start.
And at the beginning I waspreparing so many hours what to
say, how to say, because I waspostponing the moment to start
speaking in front of the publicand the moment I did it one time
(13:53):
, then I see it, I saw it's not,it's not so scary because
people say that public speakingis more scary than the death.
Yeah, yeah, and people are veryscared when they have to speak
in front than the deaf.
Yeah, yeah, and people are veryscared when they have to speak
in front of the public.
And, by the way, when I workwith lots of people,
(14:13):
individually, in groups, and nowI'm a mentor to students,
people who are in the last gradein the high school, and one of
the things they're saying theywant to excel.
One of the skills is exactly tolearn how to speak in front of
the public and how to assertthemselves in public, because
(14:36):
people are shy, they don't knowwhat to say, how to say so.
This is one of the most famousproblems people face.
Tim (14:48):
Yeah, and the reality is the majority of people are shy
and introverted like us, and ifwe can learn to just be who we
are and get over some of thosethings, like you said, just
actually start the process, justdo it and do the baby steps it
(15:10):
becomes.
It still works, but it becomeseasier.
You do it once.
It becomes easier to do it.
The second time, you know I waslast night I was at a
networking function, which to me, being an introvert, is oh, I
hate going to them, butobviously it's part of what we
have to do.
Right, sometimes in life youjust have to do things that we
(15:31):
don't like to do, and it's Iwork myself up going in there.
But as soon as I get in thereand I start talking to people
which you know, if I'm in frontof people and talk to them, it's
great, all that goes away.
So you just have to just putyourself out there, do the
uncomfortable things, and goodthings come from that.
Vesela (15:51):
Yeah, I love what you say just to be who you are, and
this is one of the thingspractically I'm teaching people
who come to me and want my helpto learn them how to speak with
confidence about theirthemselves who you are, what you
do, why you do what you do uh,why you are here.
(16:14):
So if you work with yourselffor your self-awareness, who you
are, why you do the things youare doing, this will help you
for the public speaking as well.
Why you do this speech, why youare.
This will help you for thepublic speaking as well.
Why you do this speech, why youare on that stage.
If you have an answer of allthose questions, this definitely
will help you to be a betterpresenter and a better speaker,
(16:35):
because you better know why I'mhere and usually people, when
they go on stage, they, insteadof sharing their experience,
they want to impress theaudience, and this is where they
get wrong, because when youwant to impress somebody, your
focus, your focus is on thealert award, on the medal, on
(16:56):
the final result, and you missto to be who you are and to see
the path that you're actuallythe road.
It's not about the focus on theresult, but what type of
presenter you may become throughthat speech.
So every other speech helps youto grow as a person and as a
(17:23):
speaker and, unless you'retrying to impress other people,
just share who you are.
What is your experience, whyyou are here?
Of course you have to structureyour presentation, understand
your audience, who is there, whythey're.
They came to listen to you allthose technical things you need
to mind in order to have a goodspeech, but the basic principle
(17:48):
is to share your experience andto show who you are, not to
impress other people.
Tim (17:54):
Exactly, and that whole idea of you know people judging
you.
They're not judging you,they're not even thinking about
you.
They're thinking about who'sjudging them.
Right, and it's that impostersyndrome.
You know you're on that stageor you have that position.
You have that job where you'releading this team for a reason
(18:15):
you know you're.
You know the the theorganization didn't hire you
because they wanted to fail.
They hired you because youbrought certain skills and
abilities and knowledge andperspective and they want you to
be able to share that.
So, so embrace it and that'sthat.
That's you know.
I think, especially with, with,with the younger generations
(18:39):
today, I think, for any numberof reasons, they put so much
emphasis and thought on whatother people are thinking about
them, when the reality isthey're not even really thinking
about it.
Vesela (18:54):
Yeah, actually there are two very important things.
It's the opinion on otherpeople, so we need their
validation of the other people,what they would have said.
I have to be perfect, I have tobe great.
But the other important thingis other young people.
They just started and they wantfrom the first try to be at the
(19:18):
highest, uh at the at the peak.
They want to be at the fujimountain at the peak, like they
just started, but they want toclimb the mountain and what I've
shared at the beginning Iclimbed, climbed other mountains
before I started this one.
So people want to get uh, mostof the successful people when
(19:39):
they reach their peak and theirsuccess.
They went through many, manychallenges and the road was long
.
But young people want to get tothe end right away and they
don't realize you cannot getthere right, right away.
You cannot become a goodspeaker unless you speak many,
many times and you failsometimes from out of those many
(20:02):
, many times.
But they just want to be thebest speaker in the first speech
and there is no help.
And actually this was the samewith me.
I want, I wanted to be perfect.
That's why I didn't want tostart doing videos at the
beginning of my coaching careerbecause I wanted to be the best.
I said, if sees me, I want himto see the perfect me, the best
(20:23):
version of me, and I have toprepare for the best version.
But yeah, and I understandthose people because I have been
in their shoes, I was therealready.
Yeah, but there is no shortcut.
People often ask me do you have, is there any shortcut to
anything?
I said no, there is no shortcut.
People often ask me do you have, is there any shortcut to
anything?
I said no, there is no shortcut.
You cannot get to the Everestor to Fuji like shortcut.
(20:47):
You just need to start from thebottom of the below the peak
and start climbing step by step.
There is no shortcut.
Tim (21:05):
Yeah, and people spend more time trying to take shortcuts
to get things done than if theyjust follow the step-by-step
process, follow the path anddoing the work, and it's.
It's funny sometimes when theycome back and look at you and
say, well, I shouldn't justlisten to you, well, you
probably should have but, butbut you are now, so let's just
get busy and and and work ongetting better.
I mean, there's no sense inlooking backwards, just forwards
(21:26):
and and and just start beingawesome.
Let's just go ahead and getstuff done, you know so.
So taking shortcuts I think isis is one of the biggest
misconceptions, um, that peoplehave about building confidence
and stepping outside theircomfort zones were some others.
Vesela (21:44):
Yeah, one very important thing is the competence.
Unless you're competent in whatyou're talking about, you will
not succeed in your publicspeech or public presentation or
whatever it is.
Competence is very importantand, again, you cannot be a
competent person like for oneday.
(22:06):
You build your competence dayby day, month after month, year
after year, and so, unlessyou're competent, you cannot
have a good presentation.
So, unless you're competent,you cannot have a good
presentation.
And another very important thingis the inner dialogue that you
have with yourself, becauseoften people have that inner
(22:30):
dialogue that is sabotaging them, inner dialogue that is against
them.
This is the criticizer who issaying you will not succeed,
you're not prepared enough,you're not good enough.
But if people activate thechampion in their mind because
in our mind we have champion andcriticizer, or, uh, the, the
(22:51):
one who is sabotaging is us.
So if you active, activate the,the champion in your mind, the
one who is saying I can do it,I'm learning, this is part of my
growth, this is how you willbecome a better speaker and a
better presenter.
(23:12):
Every speech is part of yourgrowth as a good speaker.
And even if this speech is afailure in your eyes, you think
you didn't do it great or theway you wanted.
This still learned you and is astep in the way of your growth
(23:38):
to become a good speaker.
So prepare in terms of beingcompetent on topics that you're
talking about.
(24:02):
And the other thing just silencethe criticizer and activate
your champion in your mind andchange your inner dialogue.
Change it with positive things.
But it's not that toxicpositive things, because toxic
positivity people are.
Often people are like toxicpositive.
They're, they're angry or theydon't like and they're.
It's not about to be toxicpositive, it's about to to
encourage yourself.
(24:23):
You can do it, you are, youhave prepared yourself for so
long.
You're capable person, you'regood enough, somebody has
invited you there.
So this type of dialogue thatis genuine, genuine, um,
authentic and positive.
It's not like you're best,you're the best one.
(24:43):
It's not about this.
It's about the encouragementthat you can do it and you're
good enough in order to do it.
Tim (24:51):
Yeah, and I think that's such a good point.
And I think, to take that justone step further, it's also who
we surround ourselves with, too,right, I mean, I think you know
, on one hand, you know we asindividuals we want people to
tell us how great we are, butyou don't want to surround
yourself with people who'salways telling you that how
(25:13):
great you are.
We really need people to behonest with us and say you know
what, tim, you messed up here.
This is what you need to workon.
Or you know why?
Don't you try doing these typesof things?
You're good at this, but youshould probably start working on
this.
Or you should, you know, doother things to get better,
(25:33):
because if we surround ourselveswith people that are telling us
how great we are all the time,number one, we're never really
growing and we don't ever reallyknow if we're good at something
or not.
Vesela (25:45):
Exactly, and actually I have a training on public
speaking and recently I've got aclient from corporate world
where she wanted to improve herpublic speaking skills skills
and when it was when we get tothe point, how to ask for
feedback from the audience, fromthe participant or for her
(26:05):
peers or for her boss when shewas presenting anything, um, uh,
it's uh.
It's very important to be ableto ask appropriately feedback,
because sometimes the way we askfeedback, we are just expecting
to hear something good and thisis how the person will give us
a feedback.
He will tell us something good,but he will not tell us the
(26:26):
real story, the real thing hethinks.
That's why it's very importantreally to be open to ask for an
honest feedback, because I knowpeople who are public speakers.
They go to various events andthey believe they are very, very
good speakers and like theyreach the ceiling and there is
(26:51):
no more where they can improvethemselves.
But when we get to that point,this is the first step before we
are failing, because if youthink that there is nowhere you
can, you reach the ceiling andyou cannot grow anymore.
You're the best and the greatthat's actually.
(27:13):
You don't know where you are atthe moment.
It's very important to be awarewhat is your starting point at
the moment in terms of publicspeaking.
Am I confident enough or I'mnot confident enough?
And if I'm not confident enoughand I'm honest and open to
acknowledge this in front ofmyself, this is the first step
(27:36):
to improve.
But if I say I'm confidentenough but you are not, so you
will not improve yourself.
So, not asking not being ableto ask about feedback, but being
open to hear honest and realfeedback from the other side.
It's really, really important.
Tim (28:01):
It is.
And again I go back to, youknow my background in the sport
industry.
You know, if you look at someof the all-time greats in sport
and in their position theyalways worked hard, I mean up
until they retired and I guesseven post that, you know,
working on basic skills, tryingto get better, hiring coaches to
(28:24):
help them get better andimprove, and if we can see the
best of the best trying toimprove, it doesn't really make
a whole lot of sense why we, asand I air-freak sense, why you
know why we, as, as you know,air fingers, quote you know
regular people, why why are wethinking that we're the best at
something and not trying to getbetter?
(28:45):
You know, I say I think that's,I think there's a fine line in
in obsession and and and andtruly trying to improve at our
craft.
Vesela (29:02):
Actually, the confident mind is the open mind.
Everyone who is confident, heis open to learn and he knows
that he doesn't know everything.
But he doesn't mean that he'snot confident, open to learn and
(29:28):
he's open to the audience.
Because when you are not openthis is a state of mind you will
not be able to be open for theaudience and you will not know
who is the audience and what theaudience is expecting from you.
And usually those people are,they're more talking to
themselves rather than talkingto the audience exactly because
they're so no, go ahead, goahead, you're good.
(29:49):
I wanted to say because they'reso in love with their way of
speaking so they cannot hearother people and what they want.
Yeah, this is another thingthat I observed in public
speaking.
Tim (30:05):
So let's go to the opposite end of the spectrum.
You know how do we help peoplebuild confidence if they've got,
you know, low self-esteem.
If you know, if you're tooconfident that's bad, but if
you're not confident enough andyou have low self-esteem, how do
we help those people get betterand build that long-lasting
(30:28):
confidence?
Vesela (30:31):
Yeah, the first step is to sit down and say, okay, where
I am at the moment, which is mypoint A, which is my starting
point, where I am at the moment.
Then the next thing is where Iwant to go.
If I want to excel my publicspeaking skills, where I want to
go?
If I want to excel my publicspeaking skills, where I want to
go To have a goal which ischallenging and achievable at
(30:53):
the same time.
Because if you set a goal thatis not achievable for you, you
don't have those skills or youdon't have talents in this, you
will not achieve your goal, youdon't have talents in this, you
will not achieve, uh, uh,achieve your goal.
So you have to know your pointa, then what is your point b and
(31:14):
then what are the uh, the, theuh, the steps towards this.
And one very important thing youjust need to start and act.
People do not act.
Unless you act, you cannotachieve anything.
So someone really needs tostart and do some actions.
It could be small steps.
(31:35):
It could be talking to a smallaudience it's a video or talking
to himself in front of themirror.
It could be something verysmall.
Often, people have limitingbeliefs, limiting beliefs that
limits them and they fear ofspeaking in front of the public.
(31:56):
What other people will say whatmy mom would say?
My dad would say my spouse?
So we have to identify if thereis any limiting belief this
person has and if there is alimiting belief, we need to
identify and find a way how toovercome that limiting belief.
Tim (32:15):
It's it's very important and yeah, you know, a lot of
times, you know, we talk a lotabout the whole idea of our
inner dialogue, which causessome of those limiting beliefs,
but we really can't forget aboutthe individuals that have had
outside trauma, whether that bephysical or mental, that have
(32:35):
caused other types of limitingbeliefs, and understand that
they can be helped and that wecan get them from where they are
to a more confident place andactually believing that they are
worthy, that they can becomegood and successful at things.
Vesela (32:54):
Actually, you opened the question for asking for help.
Lots of people don't ask forhelp and there are many, many
people.
They believe they can do it bythemselves and they have to do
it by themselves.
And they have to do it bythemselves and it might because
they've been educated from theirparents like this, or their
parents has been very demandingfrom them.
(33:15):
But many, many people still donot ask for help.
They believe it expected fromthem and they're trying to do by
themselves.
But if you have some personaldrama or trauma from the past,
you cannot overcome it byyourself.
And this is where you have tobe, to have the confidence to
ask for help, because help willmake you be more powerful.
(33:41):
It's not that you cannot dothings.
It's not that you're notcapable.
It's about you become morecapable.
And very often people makecomparisons.
So the brain works in a way.
The first thing the brain doeswhen new information is, when
the brain processes newinformation, is to make
(34:02):
comparison.
Make comparison to previoustimes, make comparisons to make
comparison, make comparison toprevious times, make comparisons
to other people, and when youmake a comparison to somebody or
something, you don't allow toyourself to do it in a unique
way because you compare it tothe previous time and when you
compare it, what you're doingthis time is exactly what has
(34:26):
happened in the previous time.
And if you're comparing tosomeone else who is already a
good speaker, you work againstyour confidence, because you see
the success of that person butyou don't see the road to the
success of that person, and thatroad has had challenges and
issues and failures and thingslike this.
(34:49):
So I would say to everybody whowants to improve his speaking
skills, to speak with confidence, to be confident enough to ask
for help.
Tim (35:00):
I really like that.
You said it's how important itis to ask for help because,
again, nobody gets to besuccessful without help and
without relationships.
I mean because I believe thateverything that we do,
relationships are the key tothat and having good
relationships with people to beable to help each other get to
(35:25):
wherever it is that you want tobe.
And you know in the past youand I have talked about, you
know, the four differentarchetypes that you talk about
in your training.
How important is it to know orhave an understanding of what
those archetypes are in yourselfand in other people?
Vesela (35:43):
Actually, this is very important when it comes to
speaking with confidence,because the four archetypes the
four archetypes speaks in adifferent way.
For example, one of those isthe sovereign, is the person who
is very direct, he's very.
Sometimes he might beaggressive.
He's very proactive and he'shonest and open.
(36:06):
Aggressive, he is veryproactive and he is honest and
open.
He see things in white and forhim the things are white and
black.
But the opposite archetype is aperson who is, he's like a
magician.
He likes to take lots ofstories.
So people who are magicians,they they speak true stories and
if you hear someone explainthings through story, definitely
(36:31):
he's a magician.
And, for example, people whoare sovereigns, they don't like
too many details, they don'tlike somebody to waste their
time, they want to talk straightto the point, unlike magicians
who like to explain many details.
Where they've been, what hashappened, it's a long, long
(36:51):
story.
So imagine if you're in acorporate world or somewhere
else and one is a sovereign, theother is a magician and they
don't know about each other'stype.
If I'm a sovereign, for example, and in a corporate world, when
people are talking with so manydetails, they are not just get
(37:13):
to the point.
It's very disturbing for me.
I want to.
I don't have time.
I want to talk up straight tothe point and to get to the
basic point, because you divertfrom the basic point and in
public speaking it's veryimportant If you.
Very often people have preparedfor the public speak and
(37:36):
they're speaking in front of thepublic and they get to a story
and they start thinking aboutsomething and from this story
they go to another story, butthis another story is a complete
diversion from the main pointfor the public speak.
So this is very often I noticeit when I'm teaching public
speaking and when I listen topeople they just go to many
(37:58):
directions which could be verydisturbing for the audience.
And the other two archetypes isthe warrior, the person who is
again straight to the point,very strict, very direct, and
the other person is the lover,the person who wants everybody
(38:19):
to be happy, to please everybody, to please everybody in the
audience.
I've got a lady who was myclient in public speaking and
she was speaking.
So when she was speaking,either in front of her team or
in front of a broader public,she was concerned what
everybody's thinking, whetherthey're happy, whether they're
(38:41):
not happy.
So she's over-caring People whoare lovers.
They're over caring for otherpeople, but when you are over
caring, you don't allow theother person to act and to be
himself.
When you're over caring, youoccupy his or her space.
So knowing about the fourarchetypes is key when it comes
(39:04):
to public speaking, when wespeak one-on-one, when we speak
in front of a small group, whenwe speak in front of the
audience.
Because when you know whatarchetypes are you, you know
what you can put at risk.
For example, magicians can gointo many stories and can waste
(39:24):
their time in many stories andthey would not be able to finish
their speech properly.
So they could be very directand very one, two, three, four
and people cannot feel the storyand the magic in what they are
talking about.
So once you know what archetypeare you are talking about.
(39:51):
So once you know what archetypeare you, you can work on
adopting the traits of the otherarchetypes, because every
person has the four archetypes,but everyone has a predominant
one.
And when you know what is yourpredominant one, you can work
adopting the traits of the otherarchetypes.
And this is not only importantfor yourself, but it's important
.
Once you know more about thosearchetypes, you'll be able to
(40:14):
understand much more better theperson with whom you're speaking
with.
So you automatically understandbetter the person with whom
you're speaking at this specificmoment and you'll be speaking
with confidence.
I can assure you that you willspeak much more confidently than
(40:35):
before.
Tim (40:39):
Yeah, it's so important to know who again, to know who you
are and how you communicate andhow you think, but it's also so
important to understand theother people that you're
communicating with the audienceand understand how they not only
you know receive thatinformation, but how they're
going to process it and thencarry that information on down
(41:01):
the road.
And again, that comes with workand practice, just like
everything else that we'vetalked about today.
Yeah, yeah.
Vesela (41:12):
Actually the speaker has to be interested in the
audience, why the audience isthere, what they want to learn,
why they came here.
So unless the speaker isinterested, genuinely interested
(41:32):
, in his audience, he will notbe able to attract the audience.
Very often the audience we havevarious types of people in the
audience.
We have people who don't knowabout the topic we are talking
about at all.
There are people who knowsomething about the topic and
there are people who are verywell aware of the topic.
(41:54):
So we have to be able tosatisfy the need of every one of
those three groups.
So to be able to give basicinformation for those who don't
doesn't know anything, to givemore information for those who
don't doesn't know anything, togive more information for those
who know something and for thosewho are proficient.
Let's say like this we have togive even more, and that's why
(42:17):
knowing who is our audience isvery important and to shift the
focus from us to the audience.
This is very important and veryoften people who are good
speakers and they speak a lotand they become very confident
and very self, high self-esteemon how they speak.
They know that people listen tothem, they lose the focus and
(42:39):
sometimes they're speaking tothemselves.
You have the feeling they speakto themselves, but they don't
speak to you Exactly.
Tim (42:47):
Exactly.
I'm actually thinking of somepeople that do that now.
But that's great advice.
Understands that?
Again, there's that happymedium where you know that you
(43:11):
know the information but beinghumble enough to share it with,
like you said, everybody in thataudience so that everybody in
the audience gets what they wantout of the talk, the speech,
the meeting, the interview,whatever situation or scenario
that you're in.
Vesela (43:31):
Yes, and this is another point, because sometimes you
might do the best investigationin the beginning what is your
audience?
But at the end of the day, youhave to be able to fill the
audience.
Yeah, you investigated it, butyou're exactly there and the
very right time.
You have to be able to fill theaudience and to be able to
change.
This is all about goodpreparation and competence and
(43:54):
practice, because in order toact accordingly and to change
your mind or to change what tosay in this very moment, you
need to be very um experiencedfor this and very sensitive for
this.
Tim (44:09):
And we've just come full circle.
You know, talk about being ableto adapt and change, and I want
to fly, and, again, the onlyway that you can do that is
through, you know, yourpreparation.
Yeah, and your preparation andyour practice before?
Vesela (44:27):
Yeah, true, and your preparation and your practice
before that Exactly so, bessie.
Tim (44:32):
Where can people find you if they want to work with you?
Vesela (44:36):
Yeah, they can visit my website, which is
wwwbesselamanganacom, or theycan use my name, bessela Mangana
, in all social media LinkedIn,facebook, instagram, youtube so,
using my name, they can find methere.
They can write me an email orwrite me a direct message and I
(45:00):
will be happy to help them ifthey want to speak about
themselves with more confidence.
Tim (45:07):
Well, veseli, thank you so much and I'll put those links in
the show notes for everybody.
But I really do appreciate youtake some time with us today and
I know our audience is going tolove this episode.
So, again, thank you so muchand we'll talk to you soon.
Vesela (45:20):
Yeah, thank you very much for inviting me.
It was a pleasure for me.
Tim (45:24):
Be sure to visit speakingwithconfidencepodcastcom
to join our growing communityand register for the Formula for
Public Speaking course.
Always remember your voice hasthe power to change the world.
We'll talk to you next time,Take care.
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