September 8, 2025 • 58 mins
Have you ever wondered how living and working abroad can radically transform not just your communication style, but also the way you guide and lead others? In today’s episode, we dive deep into the world of cross-cultural communication, public speaking, and storytelling with our guest Rebecca Williams, a true globetrotter and expert public speaking coach who has worked with everyone from Stanford MBAs to teams at Google, Meta, and Netflix.
Hey, I’m Tim Newman, and on this episode of Speaking with Confidence, we’re getting practical about what it really takes to show up with confidence and credibility in any communication setting whether that’s on stage, in a boardroom, or even navigating the cultural nuances of a meeting overseas.
Rebecca and I kick things off by discussing her journey from Wisconsin to living in places like Germany, Japan, Australia, Nepal, Spain, Portugal, and Mexico. She shares how her international experiences have planted humility and empathy at the heart of her coaching approach, reminding us that communication is never one-size-fits-all. In many countries, people speak two, three, or even more languages just to participate professionally, and often it’s those little cultural cues, not just words that make or break your message.
Here’s what we covered in this episode:
- How living abroad shaped Rebecca’s empathetic, multicultural approach to coaching communication
- What it means to be a “guest star” in the country of your audience
- How to avoid cross-cultural blunders and build trust across cultures
- The universal challenge of negative self-talk during public speaking and how to work through it
- Rebecca’s “First Five Formula” for nailing your presentation opening
- How specificity makes stories stick and how to find the right stories within your own life
- The role of humor (and how even non-comedians can use it effectively)
- The current and future impact of AI on communication, public speaking, and storytelling
- Insights into Rebecca’s book “Presenting. Presenting.” and why it was designed as an interview
- Where to connect with Rebecca and access her resources
This episode is jam-packed with real stories, practical frameworks, and a refreshing perspective on developing your own authentic voice whether you’re addressing an international audience or conquering your own internal doubts. I hope you enjoy listening as much as I enjoyed this conversation with Rebecca!
Don’t forget to grab Rebecca’s book, check out more resources at speakingwithconfidencepodcast.com, and connect with us on LinkedIn or Instagram. Your voice really does have the power to change the world. Let's keep showing up and speaking with confidence.
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Tim Newman (00:10):
Welcome back to Speaking with Confidence, a
podcast that helps you build thesoft skills that lead to real
results Communication,storytelling, public speaking
and showing up with confidencein every conversation that
counts.
I'm Tim Newman, a recoveringcollege professor turned
communication coach, and I'mthrilled to guide you on your
journey to becoming a powerfulcommunicator.
Today's guest is RebeccaWilliams.
(00:31):
Rebecca is a public speaking,storytelling and presentation
expert who helps mission-drivenorganizations and purpose-driven
overachievers change the worldthrough effective communication.
She has served as a publicspeaking coach at the Stanford
Graduate School of Business andhas trained professionals and
teams at organizations worldwide, including Google, meta and
(00:52):
Netflix.
Rebecca is passionate aboutempowering dynamic, professional
women to develop bold andconfident self-expression so
they can step into authenticfeminine leadership.
Rebecca, welcome to the show.
I'm really excited about ourconversation today.
Rebecca Williams (01:07):
Hi Tim, Thank you for having me.
I'm excited too.
Tim Newman (01:10):
Oh, this is going to be fun and let's just go ahead
and set the stage.
You know right from the get-goand I'm not using stage as a pun
you have that background intheater and all those things.
I didn't do that on purpose,but that's it as a pun.
You have that background intheater and all those things.
I didn't do that on purpose,but that's it.
You were born in Wisconsin, butyou spent a good portion of
(01:30):
your life abroad, in manydifferent countries, which I
think is awesome and I thinkit's great, and I don't think we
as Americans do enough of that.
What we can gain from that is adifferent conversation for a
different day.
But how has that shaped andchallenged you in terms of being
a communicator and how youcoach different people?
Rebecca Williams (01:51):
Yeah, this is such an interesting question.
I was actually just writingabout this this morning.
So, yeah, speaking to what yousaid, I was born in Wisconsin
but my family and I quickly wemoved to Germany when I was, I
think, around one years old andmy dad was an opera director, so
we would move around quite abit, so spent time in Germany
(02:15):
and then when I became an adult,I lived in Japan for four years
, australia.
For two years I've lived inNepal, spain, I now live in
Portugal and I spent a lot oftime in Mexico as well.
And so I've had I've had a lotof different experiences and a
lot of different cultures andwith a lot of different
(02:35):
languages and meeting a lot ofdifferent kinds of people, and
really these experiences haveinfluenced my coaching and my
communication training career in, I would say, two main ways.
One is that they help me stayhumble in the trade of helping
(03:00):
other people communicate.
So you know, of course, englishthese days is the lingua franca
.
It's what business is done in.
It used to be French, now it'sEnglish, and I think many people
forget that, and especiallyAmericans forget that there are
a lot of other languages spokenaround the world and a lot of
(03:26):
people, billions of people, arespeaking two languages, three
languages, sometimes fourlanguages, because they need to
participate in the world and inthe economy.
So I think it's dangerous tothink that everybody is on the
same playing field.
As a native speaker, and havinghad this experience of living
(03:50):
abroad and working abroad hasreally kept me humble and which
has also put me in a really deepplace of service to my
customers, my clients, because Iunderstand I've had to.
I learned Japanese when I was inJapan.
I gave speeches in Japanesewhen I was in Japan.
(04:10):
That was really hard, and sothose experiences remind me that
, hey, what my clients are doingwhen they're not speaking their
native language is even harder,and so it helps me be more
empathetic and it helps me givethem strategies to navigate the
difficulties of not onlyspeaking with confidence, but
(04:31):
like just language and how toexpress yourself so your
audience communicate with people.
So not just empathy for otherpeople communicating, but how to
(04:55):
address an audience.
So, for example, I'm teaching aworkshop in London in July and
I'm thinking a lot about my wayof being as an American and how
is what I'm saying going to landwith native English speakers,
but still native Englishspeakers who are not Americans,
(05:17):
and that's it's really important.
It is also a kind of empathy,but it's just an awareness
that's important to have whenyou're addressing any audience.
Tim Newman (05:52):
Yeah, that's such a wide breadth of international
experience.
You're still a guest in thatcountry and it's important to
make sure that we do our best toshow that we're a guest and try
to assimilate and use theirterms, use their language, use
(06:14):
their mannerisms so that youknow, so that they feel that we
actually care about who they areand their culture.
To begin with, let's just putit that way.
Rebecca Williams (06:24):
Yeah, yeah, and I love what you say about
like it's almost metaphorical.
Right, you're a guest in theircountry.
And when you think about ifyou're speaking from a stage, if
you're giving a presentation,sure, you are the star I'm doing
air quotes for people who can'tsee me.
You're the star of yourpresentation or of your talk or
(06:45):
whatever, but you're a guest inthe country.
That is the audience, right?
So you have to know youraudience.
You have to know what isacceptable and what's not
acceptable, because if you breakcertain rules it's going to be
tough for your credibility onthat stage.
Yes, and I'm not saying like,for example, I'm not going to go
(07:09):
to London and try to speak in aBritish accent.
You know that would be absurdand my British accent is
terrible, by the way, but I doknow some phrases that I
wouldn't say there, that I mightsay in the States, for example.
So it's, it's just having thatawareness and being able to work
(07:29):
with that in your repertoire ofhow you communicate.
Tim Newman (07:33):
Yeah, and, and you know, I I think about it again
the cultures are very similar.
You know, united Kingdom andUnited States obviously
different, but a lot ofsimilarities.
But let's just say you go tothe Far East, you've been to
Japan, I've been to Thailand,I've been to Malaysia and those,
the cultures there andmannerisms and language there,
(07:57):
and things are so different andit doesn't take much you know
from from that perspective, toto get off track and, um,
inadvertently offend people with, with terms or or even
mannerisms, um, so such as uh,first thing I did when I went to
(08:18):
Thailand the very first time isI stuck my hand out to shake
hands and no, that's, no, wedon't, we're not doing that.
And and, and so it's.
It's those, those, those otherthings that you have to actually
learn, that that help youbecome good communicators, if,
because if they trust you, thenyou're going to have a much
better time having good, opendialogue where you guys
(08:40):
understand each other.
Rebecca Williams (08:42):
Yeah, yeah, I remember being in Japan and I
wanted to do an English languageteacher training outside of
Japan for a month.
It was like this intensivetraining, because that's what I
was doing there.
I was teaching English as asecond language and I wanted to
do it better, and I also wantedmy board of education to not
(09:06):
only let me take the holiday,but I also wanted them to pay
for the training, because it wasit was, you know, job training
essentially and I thought, well,I'll give it a try.
And so I I talked to mysupervisor and this was all in
Japanese, so I really had topractice and prepare for this
conversation and she, she wasn'tsaying no.
(09:29):
She wasn't saying no to myrequest, and so I kept kind of
drilling in and drilling inuntil I could get her to a yes
she.
Eventually I understand now thatshe capitulated because I
wasn't getting the signals thather response was actually a no,
(09:55):
because they don't actually sayno in Japan, like you barely
almost never hear that word, andso you just have to pick up on
the cues like, oh, I get it,like their body language is this
way and they're not saying yes,right, um, but yeah, she, she
told me much later, like manyyears later, after we got to
know each other better, she waslike wow, you were, you were
(10:15):
like a freight train, like Icouldn't, I couldn't say no to
you, like it was impossible.
So I, I, I ended up gettingthat training paid for and it
was impossible.
So I, I, I ended up gettingthat training paid for and it
was great.
But more than anything, it wasjust such a lesson in
cross-cultural communication.
Tim Newman (10:30):
That's awesome.
That's a good story and a goodpoint that people understand
it's.
You had to be able to pick upon those things but again, you
have to know, to know and learnsome things going into it and
some of those you it's almostimpossible to learn until you,
until you get there and you'reyou're immersed in it, you know.
Rebecca Williams (10:50):
Yeah, yeah, and that's the fun part, right.
Because, learning, learning asyou go, that I mean.
It's that's, I believe, thebest way to learn.
Tim Newman (10:59):
Exactly, Exactly so what's your?
What's your biggest publicspeaking fail?
Rebecca Williams (11:08):
Oh man, that's easy.
I tell this story all the time.
So it was probably, I think, atthis point, like 10 years ago
now, I was in San Francisco andit was International Women's Day
and I had been asked to do atalk downtown on a stage in
front of this audience of women.
(11:29):
And I was really excitedbecause I'm really passionate
about working with women and Ilove presenting, I love being on
stage, and it comes from mydays of being on stage when my
dad was an opera director, whichis another story.
But I was excited, so I reallyprepared for this talk.
(11:50):
I, I, you know, I wrote my talkand I, I, I was memorized it and
, you know, rehearsed it many,many times and I even bought a
new jacket this like I don'tknow if you know the, the
designer helmet, but like reallycool big shoulder pads, like it
was a statement, you know.
And so the day came and I goton the stage and I launched into
(12:14):
my talk and I was reallyconfident for the first two
lines and like really nailed it.
And then the third line, I justfroze and I just blanked out
and I just looked into theaudience because there were
about like 50 women in theaudience like staring at me, and
it was very quiet because Iwasn't saying anything and they
were waiting for me to saysomething, and so I just decided
(12:35):
to start over.
I started over again.
First two lines were fine.
Third line totally missed itand you know it's refined.
Third line totally missed it andyou know it was getting really,
uh, challenging because I wasreally embarrassed you know, and
I just I was making up storiesthat, oh my God, they think they
think I'm a loser, they thinkI'm a failure.
Why am I even on this stage?
(12:57):
And I in my mind I was like,should I just get off the stage
now?
Should I just leave?
Um, then I started over onceagain and I got through the
third line and I made it to theend and you know, they gave me a
round of applause and I just Ijust kind of like snuck away and
I left the building because Iwas too embarrassed to chat with
anyone after that.
(13:18):
But I mean, the biggest, thebiggest lesson from that
experience was that.
The biggest lesson from thatexperience was that and it's
(13:47):
something that I've had to learnover and over again because
again, I have this performancebackground I was on stages and
my dad taught me how to make theaudience laugh and essentially,
manipulate the audience, and soI have this performer gene in
me now.
Tim Newman (13:52):
but when you're doing a talk it's, it's not a
performance.
Rebecca Williams (13:53):
Right, it's just like a different function.
And so so I got up there withthe intention of performing, but
then I realized in the moment,like oh, it's actually not a
performance, Like I'm here tohave a conversation with them,
and so that really shaped theway that I teach public speaking
now, Because when you have anidea in yourself that it's going
(14:16):
to be a performance, thatcauses so much anxiety Because
who's a performer?
Tim Newman (14:20):
Like, very few people in the world are
performers a performer like veryfew people in the world are,
are performers that that's sucha good story and and a good
lesson to learn.
Um, what, what about the voicein your head?
Uh, the I'm a loser.
Um, what all these people arethinking?
You know I'm horrible.
(14:41):
Um, how did you deal with thatin, in the, in the moment,
that's one thing, but in the.
How did you deal with that inthe moment?
That's one thing, but in theaftermath, how did you deal with
that?
Rebecca Williams (14:50):
Yeah, and it's really a great question,
because I am really intent onhelping people who engage in
public speaking, helping themunderstand that that
conversation inside your headit's a conversation that all of
us have.
I mean, I work with CEOs, Iwork with people who are very
(15:18):
well-respected and revered evenin their industries, and they
also struggle with that voiceand it's it's a unique thing
that public speaking kind ofkind of instigates this
conversation, this internalconversation of you know, like
bad vibes right, like when?
(15:38):
When are the other times thatwe're we're having these
negative conversations withourselves?
Oh, you suck, you should justget off the stage right now.
Um, and and I think what it isis it's really the ego is trying
to keep us small, it's tryingto protect us and, you know, say
like, oh, maybe you should justnot do this and um, but yeah,
to answer your question, I meanin the moment, in the moment for
(16:03):
that story, I just reallyfocused my attention on like I'm
committed to getting throughthis, no matter what, because
there was an option to just walkoff the stage, but that wasn't.
It wasn't an option for meright?
Tim Newman (16:17):
well, isn't that always an option?
Rebecca Williams (16:18):
that's, that's always an option it's always an
option, but it's always anoption, it's all, but to me it's
always an option.
Tim Newman (16:24):
they think I am whatever.
Rebecca Williams (16:54):
Insert negative word, right, they think
I'm a whatever.
They're not thinking that theyare looking at you.
Number one what they arethinking is wow, I'm glad that's
not me up there.
That's what they're thinking.
And they're also also thinkinglike, oh, I, you know, I, I
really want her to get throughthis.
You know, like they arecheering you on because they
(17:17):
know it's hard to do.
So that's that's really numberone.
And sure, yes, you always havethe option to walk off the stage
.
But I think you know like thisgoes into a conversation of
self-leadership.
You know, is that really anoption if you're leading
yourself to grow?
No, it's not.
(17:37):
One option is to admit like,hey, I'm really struggling up
here, I'm so nervous, and thenprobably what's going to happen
is the audience is going to giveyou a round of applause because
they want you to do well, andthen you can start again.
You might struggle a little,but you'll get through it, and
then it's a triumph, right?
So it's all in, like goingthrough that moment of challenge
(18:02):
and finding that wherewithalinside yourself to get past it.
And and then, as far as like,how do you, even before the
moment, how do you tame thosevoices in your head.
It's, it's positiveaffirmations, I mean, I think.
I think maybe a lot of yourlisteners will have a personal
(18:26):
habit of writing positiveaffirmations.
I know I do.
I write them every morning andI focus my attention on the good
stuff and, okay, here's whatI'm doing great.
And you know, here's, here'sthe value I'm bringing to the
world.
And you know, the human mind isreally good at telling negative
(18:46):
stories and finding problemsand it's up to us to train it to
see the good, including inourselves.
And we can do that especiallyaround the skills of public
speaking and how we show up inthe world.
Tim Newman (18:58):
Yeah, absolutely, and I'm glad you said that you
know, because our brain it'sit's designed to protect us and
there's negative thoughts andthat's what it thinks that it's
doing, but it's, you know, froma realistic perspective, it's
not statements or those positiveideas at the forefront, so that
(19:28):
we can actually do the thingsthat we know that we can do,
that we know that we can be goodat and work on things that we
need to get better at.
Definitely, you know when you,you wrote a book um presenting
presenting which I thought wasawesome.
I love the layout.
(19:49):
I love the concept of theinterview.
Rebecca Williams (19:52):
I'll show it.
I'll show it as part of thethat's awesome, yes.
I know some.
Some people reached out to meand they were like hey, um, do
you know that you have the wordpresenting twice?
Tim Newman (20:09):
Oh, got it, that's the whole point exactly anyway
but I love the book in for anynumber of different reasons.
You know there were a couplepieces that really stood out.
I'd like to kind of go throughwith you.
I'm a systems person andanytime that we can have a
system or an acronym that issimple and easy to remember,
(20:30):
that you can put into practiceimmediately, I think it's really
beneficial to people becauseit's something that's memorable
and it doesn't take a lot oftime and effort to be good at
those things.
Especially when it comes tocommunication and public
speaking, those types of thingsare so important because a lot
(20:54):
of times that we'recommunicating it's impromptu,
it's off the cuff.
We have to develop our thoughtsand ideas almost in real time.
But you came up with a coupleof them.
The first one is the first fiveformula, which which again, I
thought it was great, and thisis really kind of geared to the
(21:15):
whole idea of public speaking,presenting, whether it's on a
stage, in a meeting, what haveyou.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat and what that is and how
we go about doing that?
Rebecca Williams (21:26):
Yeah.
So the first five formula isit's essentially your
presentation, first impression.
So whether and I saypresentation in a lot of
different contexts it could belike you're giving a
presentation at work or doing aTed talk, it doesn't matter, but
you're presenting ideas to anaudience, but you're presenting
(21:47):
ideas to an audience, and what Ifound working with people is
that the first, like that firstbit of time when you're standing
in front of people and you'relaunching into what you're going
to say, is often the hardestpart to do.
It's the hardest part to craft,so to speak, because there are
(22:10):
a lot of different ways that youcan approach a talk.
Um, and you know, that's great,and and I'm not, I'm not for
rigidity in in a system Um, like, if you're going to do a
presentation, you have to usethis format.
No, I'm not, I'm not about that, but what I found working with
(22:31):
people over and over again isthat they just they struggle so
much like getting into it, andand that it prevents them from
doing the iterative process thatthey need to do to get their
ideas solid.
So so what I created and thisis it's been over many, many
years now, I think I think II've been developing that same
(22:57):
first five formula for over 10years at this point, and I
tested it with a lot ofdifferent people, with leaders
of companies, to individualcontributors, to, just you know,
individuals doing talks for fun, and I found that it's really
bomb proof because this formula,it sets you up, it sets up the
(23:18):
rest of your talk by connectingwith the audience, hooking them
with something interesting thatthey can lean into.
They're automatically engaged.
Presenting a point, a clearpoint, right at the beginning,
introducing a problem which thenmakes the audience lean in,
(23:39):
because when there's a problem,that's when we lean in becomes
interesting.
That's storytelling.
And then five is introducingthis agenda, like, okay, this is
what I'm going to talk about,which is basically, it's
Aristotle, right, tell them whatyou're going to tell them, tell
them what you told them.
So it's five parts and it'smeant to be done in the first
(23:59):
five minutes of your talk.
And so the five parts areconnect, hook, point, problem,
agenda.
So connect by asking a question, hook by telling a story.
Point state your point in asentence or less very concise.
Problem, introduce a problemthat the content of your
(24:22):
presentation will answer orsolve.
And then, finally, the agendais hey, this is what I'm going
to talk about.
So these five things in thefirst five minutes.
They do a lot of things.
They connect you to youraudience, they engage them.
It makes it really clear whatyou're going to talk about and
(24:46):
it generates some interestbecause you've introduced a
problem to talk about.
And it creates, generates someinterest because you've
introduced a problem into themix.
And then it prepares them forwhat they're going to hear.
So I I teach this to all myclients and to all the companies
I work with, because it's I'venever seen it not work, honestly
, like for so many different umexamples that I can share more
(25:10):
about the examples, if you like,but it it just I like to say,
like it's a slide into yourcontent, like your content's
this big pool of stuff.
So how are you going to getinto the pool?
Well, you could, you couldthrow people in, but uh, you
know that doesn't feel reallygood.
A slide is kind of fun, youknow, and it allows them to go
in gradually and have anexperience along the way.
Tim Newman (25:32):
Yeah, and again you bring up really good points and
if you could give an example ofone that worked, I think that
would be great.
The whole idea that you've gotto connect and hook almost
immediately or you lose them, Imean that that is, that is so,
that's so important.
But if you could give anexample, I'd love to hear it.
Rebecca Williams (25:51):
Yeah.
So of course I use this formulawith all of my trainings and
teachings and webinars, and solet's see, I'll see if I can
remember one that I did.
So it's going to be a littlebit meta because I'm talking
about presenting and publicspeaking skills.
So imagine the curtain opens,the metaphorical curtain opens,
(26:15):
the camera turns on and I leadwith a question right.
So again it's five pointsConnect, hook, point problem
agenda.
So connect.
What's your biggest strugglewhen it comes to giving
presentations?
What's your biggest strugglewhen it comes to giving
presentations?
Okay, and then I either havethem answer in the chat or I,
you know, get a few people toanswer in the audience, or maybe
it's rhetorical.
(26:35):
You don't need them to answer,but just cuing that.
It's a conversation, it's notjust a monologue.
So what's your biggest strugglewhen it comes to giving
presentations?
And then hook, you tell them astory.
So I, I, I often tell the storythat I already told about that
day, the international women'sday in san francisco, point.
Uh, what?
(26:57):
What was my point?
It was something like um, greatleaders are great presenters,
something like like a verysimple point, but problem, many
people have forgotten.
Or I think it was great leadersare great storytellers, but
(27:18):
many people have forgotten howto tell stories.
And then the last point isagenda.
So today I'm going to talkabout basic story structure, how
to tie up your story with aresolution and how to include
storytelling in every talk yougive.
Let's get started Right, soit's, it's, I don't know.
Is that clear?
(27:38):
I'll let you respond to that.
Tim Newman (27:40):
So that to me, to me , that's really clear and I'm
really glad that that's theexample that you gave, because
one of the things that I think alot of people struggle with is
how to tell a story, or where weget stories from, or how do we
start the story, or I don't havethis big, great, big, grand
story.
So what are some ideas ortechniques that we can use?
(28:06):
We can use to to help peoplebecome, you know, better stories
, better storytellers.
Rebecca Williams (28:13):
Yeah Well, I could talk about this for days,
for sure, but why don't I focuson two things right away?
So number one there's thisphrase that I always use, and it
is specific, is terrific.
So a storyteller is effectivewhen they can really, like, make
(28:39):
us feel like we're there.
Tim Newman (28:41):
Yes.
Rebecca Williams (28:42):
Right, and the way we help our audience feel
like they're there is by givingthe details.
And sure, we have to strike abalance of how many details do I
share, because you could drownpeople in details and then it's
not interesting anymore.
But you do want to pepper yourstory with details.
So, for example, theInternational Women's Day talk
(29:04):
or story that I told you, howmany people did I say were in
the audience?
Tim, let me give you a littlequiz right now.
Tim Newman (29:11):
See what you remember About 50.
Rebecca Williams (29:14):
Okay, great.
And what color was the jacket Iwas wearing?
Tim Newman (29:19):
Oh my gosh, I know it had big, big shoulder pads.
It was designed Okay, it hadbig shoulder pads.
Rebecca Williams (29:24):
It was black with big shoulder pads.
Yeah, so you remember thatdetail right.
And how many times did it takeme until I finally got through
the talk?
Tim Newman (29:34):
Three.
Rebecca Williams (29:35):
Three, yeah, so all of that, like you could
answer those questions because Igave you details there which is
what makes a story memorable,like I didn't ask you to
remember those things, but youremembered them because they're
specific.
So so that's the first keypoint is specific, is terrific,
and vague is forgotten.
If you're vague in yourstorytelling, if you say, for
(29:58):
example, um, last week I wentabroad and did a talk, you know
like well, where'd you go?
What did you talk about?
Like, give us something, giveus something, yeah.
So so that's first as specific,as terrific.
(30:18):
And the second thing I'll say isthat stories I mean our whole
life is a story.
Right, it's one long storywhich is made up of a lot of
little stories and then storieswithin those stories.
Like you know, for me, where Iam right now, it's 245.
(30:38):
In the afternoon I've alreadyhad a million stories today,
like when my locker at the gymwouldn't open and when I got an
unexpected email from thecompany I'm working with.
Like those are all littlestories.
So we have to know what is thestory we're telling and we have
(30:58):
to tell only that story, becausethe danger and I've seen it
happen over and over again isthat people they don't know when
to stop and they hook in allthese other storylines and it
becomes really muddy and messy.
So it's really about clarityand being ruthless in your
editing and forcing yourself tobe succinct in your storytelling
(31:20):
.
Tim Newman (31:20):
And that's what I guess, that's what helps you
also be specific too, If you'renot letting these tentacles go
out with all these otherdifferent things.
You really have thatopportunity and the ability to
drill down and be specific insome of these points.
Rebecca Williams (31:36):
Yeah, yeah, because if you're telling a
story that's as big as Canada,then you're not going to have
time to add specifics, becausethen it would be far too long,
right?
So go narrow and deep.
Tim Newman (31:48):
I want to go back to something that you said a
little earlier, because then itwould be far too long, right?
So so go narrow and deep.
I want to go back to somethingthat you said a little earlier.
Rebecca Williams (32:01):
You said you, you like to make people laugh,
are you?
Are you funny?
I think I'm funny, yeah.
Tim Newman (32:06):
I think I'm funny and that's there's a reason why
I ask that question, because youknow there's a lot of people
who don't think that they'refunny, but they're.
They come off as funny.
I mean, they make people laughfor whatever reason.
It could be mannerisms, itcould be the way they said
something, it could be, itreally could be.
How do we, how do we infusehumor into our communication
(32:31):
styles and into ourpresentations, into our really
our basic interpersonalcommunication?
Because I think you nailed itwith humor is so important in
how we communicate and how weget our message across.
Rebecca Williams (32:46):
Yeah, well, I think what I'll say here is that
you know, there there's acontinuum of what funny is,
right, like there's there's meand then there's robin williams
over here.
You know it's totally, totally adifferent league, um, but
that's not to say that you knowwell where am I going with it.
(33:11):
I really believe that everyonehas the ability to have some
humor and it doesn't mean thatthey have to again perform like
Robin Williams.
But I think so much of it isjust being comfortable with
yourself and having a laugh atyourself, you know, and not
taking yourself so seriously,because I think a lot of my
(33:34):
humor is self, you know.
It's like I'm making fun ofmyself a lot, you know.
Having the confidence to makefun of yourself, I think, is a
great window and it gives, itgives other people permission to
(34:00):
not take themselves soseriously.
So it brings a lightness, likea it's a shift in tone, that is.
It's really valuable.
When you are um steely facedand super serious and you're not
allowing other people to betheir quirky selves, then it
(34:22):
it's like going to a wake, youknow, like nobody's going to
have a good time.
So I think it it's superimportant to, number one, not
take yourself so seriously, evenif you're not, if you don't
consider yourself traditionallyfunny.
Um, bring some lightness intowhat you're doing by having a
laugh by um.
(34:43):
I think curiosity is one of thebest ways to not take yourself
seriously is get curious aboutwhat other people are thinking
and saying either in the meeting, in your audience.
Get curious to not take yourideas as paramount.
I think that's really importanttoo.
Tim Newman (35:00):
Yeah, you know, I'm really glad you said that.
And again, there's a differencebetween being funny and being a
comedian, right and and and Ilike that.
You said uh, it's not aperformance.
I'm also someone who usesself-deprecating humor and I I
(35:22):
agree with you.
I think it's so important thatpeople can see uh see you making
fun of yourself or making jokesabout yourself, because it does
open number one I think itgives you more credibility.
It also opens them up to relaxa little bit and to let their
(35:42):
guard down a little bit, and Ithink once that happens, the
communication process becomes somuch easier.
I think once that happens, thecommunication process becomes so
much easier.
You're not fighting the wallsor the barriers and you can
truly get down to whatever it isthat needs to be done.
Rebecca Williams (36:04):
I just think that is so important.
Yeah, have you ever seen SirKen Robinson's Ted talk on
education?
Tim Newman (36:11):
Yeah, that to me is one of the best ones ever, and I
you know.
I actually use that and I'vegot a standard, standard
presentation.
It's kind of the I use that asa model and I talk about that
all the time.
Just go ahead.
I'm sorry, yeah.
Rebecca Williams (36:29):
Well, so he he leads with the question and it
is his question that he leadswith is hilarious.
He walks out on stage like Tedtalk in front of all these
hundreds of people and hisquestion is how are you doing?
Ask the whole audience, how areyou doing?
So, again, that's the firstpart of the first five formulas.
Connect, like first connect.
(36:49):
Ask a question, a question,like get, get into it with
people, and and he is such amaster at self-deprecating humor
I mean, wow, what, howhilarious is he?
But the thing is when, whenpeople laugh, you know they're
laughing because they're feelingsomething, and and when people
feel things, they remember thosethings, and so humor is a huge
(37:12):
part of what it should be.
I believe it's a huge part ofeducation and I also believe
that, public speaking, it's asort of education, a kind of
education.
So yeah, yeah.
Tim Newman (37:26):
I think we can go down some serious rabbit holes
with that and I'm glad youbrought that up because I 100%
agree with you with everythingyou just said.
And I think if we, from aneducation perspective, if we
took a step back and made someadjustments, we wouldn't need
(37:47):
our jobs would be very different.
Rebecca Williams (37:48):
Let's just put it that way, you know how we
coach people would.
Jobs will be very different.
Tim Newman (37:50):
Let's just put that way you know, the, the how we
coach people would be very, verydifferent, and I just think
that, uh, from an educationalsystem perspective, we've really
missed the mark, yeah, and I Ithink it's.
Rebecca Williams (38:05):
It's worthwhile bringing up ai in the
context of education as well aspublic speaking right now,
because, you know, obviously wehave this new technology and
it's shaking up industries, it'schanging the world and I think
a lot of people are reallythey're scared of like, oh, is
AI going to take my job and youknow, how am I going to navigate
(38:26):
this new landscape?
(38:50):
And how am I going to navigatethis new landscape?
And what I am 100% convinced ofis that AI is going to force us
to be better storytellers andit's going to force us to be
better connectors, Because it'sone thing to have information
and share information withpeople AI is great at that but
AI does not have livedexperience.
Sure, it can make up a story,but that's very different from
hearing a human being'sexperience on the planet and how
it changed them and what theylearned.
So we really we owe it toourselves and to all of you
listening.
I challenge you to tell morestories and become more
(39:10):
proficient at storytelling anduse that to wield influence in
your personal and professionallives, Because I really think
that that's going to be the.
It's going to be the thing thatsets you apart as a
professional as more and more asAI comes into our world.
Tim Newman (39:25):
Yeah, Again I love that you said that.
Again, I agree.
I look at it along the samelines in that, you know, I don't
care what business or industryyou're in, everything is still
always going to come down topersonal relationships and
connections.
And if we can't build personalrelationships, we can't tell
(39:47):
those stories.
If we can't communicate withindividuals, we're not going to
relationships.
We can't tell those stories.
If we can't communicate withindividuals, we're not going to
make it.
So it can be AI.
I mean you can have it, butyou're still.
You're still going to have tointeract with people.
Rebecca Williams (39:58):
You're still going to have to have
relationships.
Tim Newman (40:00):
You're still going to have to have to build those
relationships and cultivate themand and and connect with people
, and, and that that's where youknow again yeah, definitely
yeah, and I, I mean, I use aievery day.
Rebecca Williams (40:17):
you know, I have two ai platforms that I use
literally every day.
It's my assistant, um, butthere are a lot of things I
don't use it for.
Like, I don't use it to help mewith storytelling, right.
Maybe if I write a story andthen I need some help editing,
I'm like, ah, you know, how canI make this more concise or how
(40:42):
can I make this clearer?
But I'm very, very careful,because it it works so fast, it
can lose a lot of the nuance andthe humanity of a thing or the
turn of phrase.
And you know, we, we, we owe itto ourselves to to be to pay
attention to all of that stuff,because AI is not perfect, right
, and we have skills that westill need to be developing.
(41:06):
We can't just hand it all over.
Tim Newman (41:08):
Right, exactly, exactly.
Yeah, I put something it was,it was like a, it was like a one
page narrative into chat GPTand I and I I obviously didn't
give it a really good prompt andthat's it, that's the other
piece to it.
And when it spit it back out, Iread it and I said you've,
(41:29):
you've changed the entiremeaning of it.
Change the entire meaning of it.
It doesn't sound like meanymore and and I was like well,
well I just wasted all the time.
I wish what?
two and a half minutes of doing,but you know but and you got
frustrated so that's part ofyour time, yeah, but put you.
(41:49):
But again, part of it is theprompt I needed.
I probably needed to give it abetter prompt, but but I didn't.
So I just scrapped that insteadof going forward and I gave it
to my wife to look at and editand say, look, this is what I'm
thinking.
Is it getting that point across?
Does it make that point Again?
Does it sound like me, you knowfrom?
(42:12):
You know really from thatperspective, you know really
from that perspective, becausenot getting too deep, but my
writing process is a little bitdifferent.
But I go from being verystructured and professional and
then I create it to make itsound like I'm actually talking,
(42:33):
as opposed to you know, awritten document.
Let's put it that way.
Rebecca Williams (42:40):
Yeah, that's great.
Yeah, one of my favoriteprompts is don't rewrite this,
let's have a conversation aboutit.
And that's helpful because it'syeah, it's really.
Then it becomes your thoughtpartner instead of your, your
writer.
Like, I don't really believethat.
Um ai does a great job atwriting quite yet right yeah, so
(43:01):
, but but being a thoughtpartner is helpful, that's,
that's a I like it.
Tim Newman (43:08):
I really do.
Um, yeah, I saw a there's.
There's a youtube video aboutright it's.
It's writing the best promptever to write a prompt.
Rebecca Williams (43:26):
Wow.
Tim Newman (43:27):
And and and it was.
It was like a page and a halfof of prompt telling it how it
wants the other prompt to be.
So I'm like that's, that'sgetting a bit too much for me,
because if I'm doing all of that, you know I'll just go ahead
and write myself anyway.
But you're right, I think AIcan really help and if we're not
(43:48):
using AI, I think we're doingit wrong, because you better
learn how to use it.
There's a lot of benefits to itand I do think that.
I think, I do think that Ithink I think the people that
are afraid afraid that they'regoing to take their job or
(44:09):
whatever reason I think if theywere to just maybe learn a
little bit about what, what it'sdoing and where it's going,
they'll understand that, yes, itmay take over some tasks, but
it's not going to take overeverything that it's portrayed,
that it's going to take overbecause, again, it's still going
to be that there'sinterpersonal relationships.
Rebecca Williams (44:30):
Yeah well, I really subscribe to what Scott
Galloway says about AI, in thatyou're not going to lose your
job to AI.
You're going to lose your jobto someone who understands and
knows how to use AI, which is100% true.
And if you are one of thosepeople who hasn't engaged with
AI yet and either you'reskeptical or fearful, or you're
(44:52):
just not interested, I wouldjust encourage you to get on the
free version of chat GPT andask it to help you plan a trip
to Spain or wherever you want togo.
Like, just start using it inyour day to day life.
So, number one, so you're moreefficient, because it will help
(45:14):
you be more efficient with a tonof different tasks.
Like, what did I ask it to dothe other day?
I think I asked it to I wasstarting this new like testing
out this new eating regimen, andI said, okay, you know I'm I, I
can only eat this stuff.
Can you come up with a shoppinglist for me so that when I go
(45:35):
to the grocery store, I knowwhat to buy?
And it just went and I was like, okay, great.
And then out the door I went.
You know, I didn't have tothink about it, it was just it's
my assistant, yeah, and, andyou know, when you, I think,
when you start using it in lowstakes scenarios like that, you
really start to understand howit can be helpful to you in your
(45:55):
, in your life.
Because that's what technologyis for.
Like, we use technology all thetime.
Like this pen is technology,how would your life be different
if you didn't have a pen?
You know, like technologyevolves us, it sparks our
evolution.
So, ignoring a tool, a newtechnology, it's, it's not, it's
(46:17):
not a great idea because it'shappening anyway.
It's kind of like saying, oh um, you know, I understand that
the car exists as a technology,but I'm not going to participate
in that yeah, I'm out ofautomobiles, I'm out right, I'm
just gonna bike everywhere and,hey, that's fine, like that's a
choice too.
You're going to have great legsand a great butt.
But you know, like, let's bereal, like this is the way the
(46:40):
world is is going exactly yeah,again, I did.
Tim Newman (46:48):
I love the ai conversation.
I didn't what wasn't planningon going there, but it's so
important and it's so importantfrom the communication
perspective that we talk aboutthis and that people understand
AI's role and how we can use itto help become better
communicators.
You know there's so many thingsout there and I talk especially
(47:09):
with you know people that areapplying for jobs and young
professionals going out to getthe first job.
There are programs and AImodels out there where you can
feed the prompt and it will giveyou a practice interview and
can grade you on those things.
So you know, there's ways thatwe can use AI to actually help
(47:29):
us become better communicatorsas well.
So don't be don't be sostandoffish on it and embrace it
, cause, like you said, it'shere, it's not going anywhere.
Rebecca Williams (47:37):
Yeah, and I actually I have a platform that
I use with my clients all thetime.
Excuse me, it's called YoodliY-O-O-D-L-I dot AI and it's an
AI speech coach and there's afree version, which is really
great, and I encourage you tocheck it out, where you can do
interview role plays and it cangive you speech feedback and
(47:59):
stuff like that.
But then I have a version thatI use with my clients and I've
trained it on my content.
So, for example, it knows thefirst five formula and it knows
all these different frameworksthat I teach.
And, yeah, it's a great waybecause look like working with a
coach one-on-one.
It can be expensive and noteverybody has those resources.
(48:22):
So, using AI to improve yourcommunication skills, like you
said, it's totally on the tableand it's really useful.
It's really useful.
I share all the time thatstudies show over and over again
that communication skills arereally the number one skill you
(48:43):
need to advance in your career,you want to be in a leadership
role.
If you want to get promoted, ifyou want to raise, you need
communication skills to not justprove yourself worthy, but you
need communication skills to askfor the raise or ask for the
promotion or, you know, or leadpeople exactly.
So, yeah, I can't stress itenough how important it is to
(49:06):
practice these skills.
Tim Newman (49:08):
Well, you're using the AI for lots of good things.
I'm using it to developpictures of me going surfing.
That's how I spent, you know, acouple hours on over the
weekend.
Rebecca Williams (49:21):
How are you doing that?
Like what, what's that?
Tim Newman (49:23):
Oh, so I can't remember the actual website, but
it's, it's.
So.
Basically, what you do is you,you, you get high quality
pictures of yourself, your face,your, your body, and you, you,
you need about 30 of them andyou put them into this AI system
and I can't remember.
I'll text it to you and I'llactually put it in the show
(49:44):
notes for everybody too, and itruns whatever it does, whatever
it does.
And then you can use that modeland you can give it prompts.
Model and you can give itprompts.
So I said you know, have haveme, um, and I gave my my age,
(50:12):
height, weight.
Uh, surfing in Hawaii wearing a, wearing a, a, a, a blue shirt
and swim trunks or whatever.
And it comes back and now someof them are very good, but some
of them are really pretty good.
Rebecca Williams (50:19):
Wow, okay, so it's an image generator that
you've trained on your, your ownimages.
Yes, yeah, and it's okay.
Tim Newman (50:26):
And so, and the reason why I started doing it is
because I making thumbnails forYouTube, you know, cause I have
.
I have some images that I useand that's great, but I want to
be a little bit, start being alittle bit more creative with it
and and you can do all kinds ofstuff.
So I did one.
My, my youngest daughter, gotmarried a couple of years ago
(50:47):
and when I sent them to myfamily I said, look, you know,
do you guys, do you, do you allremember when we did this?
And they're like when did we dothat?
I don't remember that at all.
So you tricked them, I did, Idid and then, I sent them.
I did one my daughter.
(51:08):
My daughter got married acouple of years ago, and I said,
beth, you don't remember megiving the speech at your
wedding.
And she thought to herself ohwow, is I that drunk already?
Exactly, here's the thing,though, and if you have anybody
else in the picture, though, solike in in the wedding ones that
(51:29):
I did, uh it, the it confusesit, so it puts you in the other
people's positions.
So I was in that picture, likethree other times, with your
other people, so it had topicture me standing up with a
microphone, speaking, but peoplein the background were actually
me so that's creepy.
Rebecca Williams (51:46):
Oh, I love it.
Yeah, please share that with me.
I'm going to spend hours onthat, I'm sure.
Tim Newman (51:51):
Yeah, and it's cheap too.
So so you pay for you pay bypicture.
It's like three cents a picture.
Rebecca Williams (51:57):
Oh wow, that's great, super accessible.
Tim Newman (52:04):
Yeah, so we went down that rabbit hole.
That is what it is.
Let's get back to talking aboutyour book, I think that's sure.
Anyway, you know, again I toldyou I really like the layout and
the interview format.
It's it's really really unique.
How did that come about, andcan you give us a bit more
detail on the book and wherethey can get it and those types
of things?
Rebecca Williams (52:22):
Yeah, so.
So the book, the format, as yousaid, it came about because, so
for for, for those of you whohaven't seen it, which is
probably most of you, the bookis done in an interview format.
So my friend, jeff Goldsmith heused to work at Wired Magazine
years ago and he was, he was awriter but also an interviewer.
(52:48):
So he would go interview famouspeople, like he interviewed
Cheech and Chong, he interviewedAllen Ginsberg, and then he
would turn those interviews intocontent for the magazine.
And so I I've known Jeff foryears, um from San Francisco,
and he reached out to me one dayand he said hey, I have this
idea.
He's like what if I interviewyou about what you do and we'll
turn it into a book?
(53:08):
And I thought, oh, that's great, because number one, I I love
writing number one, but numbertwo, I have to say, like it's
pretty selfish, I was gettingtired of saying the same things
all the time, you know, like Ijust wanted to codify everything
so I could say, oh, go readchapter two, you know.
So there was a littleself-purpose in there.
(53:32):
But so we set out on thisproject and what we did is we
did about two years, it took twoyears and we probably met every
other month or something likethat, and we met over Zoom and
he would interview me and he hadaccess to a lot of my documents
that I use in my work in mybusiness, training people and
(53:55):
communication skills, and so hewould look at those and then ask
me questions based on what hewas finding there, to try to
unpack what I do and mymethodology.
And so what became of that wasjust a very interesting
conversation between two friendsabout public speaking, and
(54:16):
after those interviews were alldone, we we took it and we had
all the interviews transcribedand then, and then I took it and
I edit, I entered into theediting process, which you know,
the editing process can bequite hard because you're you're
trying to tell a story with alot of content that's seemingly
on the same level, right, soyou're trying to figure out
what's the beginning, what's themiddle, what's the end, and and
(54:39):
so it was a super joyfulprocess because I I love I think
one of the reasons why I loveteaching and coaching
communication skills andespecially storytelling, is
because I love structure and Ilove things to be in place so
that they have a function and sothey're meaningful, and so
(55:02):
taking all of that informationand then putting it into a
structure that has meaning forpeople was really a joyful
process for me.
And yeah, and that's what cameout of it is this book and, um,
yeah, you, you read it tim I did.
Tim Newman (55:19):
Yeah, I I really enjoyed it because, again it it
flowed really nice.
There were a lot of stories inthere, which which again made it
a real easy read.
You know, it was something thatI could relate to a lot, a lot
of really good points and, um, Iwould suggest, I would suggest
people just pick it up and readit, because it's easy to read.
(55:40):
It's not a hard book tounderstand.
There's a lot of really goodinformation there that you can
use again, like right away youread it.
Oh, that's a good idea.
You can start using it rightaway.
It's not something that youhave to work on or plan for
weeks or once at a time.
You read it and you can startusing it right away and start
(56:00):
becoming better today and nothave to wait.
Rebecca Williams (56:04):
Yeah, yeah, I take pride in being a practical
teacher, so it's very practical.
Lots of super clear tips andstrategies for how to be a
better public speaker, how to bea better storyteller.
And yeah, I, I, I guaranteethat you will.
You will learn something andthat you remember a lot.
(56:25):
And you know there's a lot inhere, too, about, about mindset
and about you know some of thethings we've talked about, like
don't take yourself so seriouslyand have fun with it.
And you know we're all makingthese mistakes and you know it's
not, it's it's not priming youto give a Ted talk per se, but
it's it's encouraging you toraise your voice and take the
(56:47):
microphone and engage in that,because it really really does
matter to share what's on theinside of you with with other
people.
So, yeah, you can pick it up onAmazon and, yeah, I encourage
you to grab it.
It's a great resource.
Tim Newman (57:03):
Absolutely, and where else can people find you,
to connect with you?
Rebecca Williams (57:08):
Yeah, so you can find me on Instagram at
RealRebeccaWilliams, and you canalso find me on LinkedIn at
RebeccaWilliamsWorks, and thoseare the main places.
I also have a YouTube channel Ithink it's at Rebecca dash
Williams or something like that,but I encourage you, just reach
out to me on LinkedIn andInstagram and say that you heard
(57:29):
me on on Tim show.
That'd be great.
I'd love to connect with people.
Tim Newman (57:33):
That's awesome.
I appreciate it.
I'll put all those links in theshow notes for everybody so
that they have it.
And, Rebecca, thank you so muchfor for joining me today and
spend some time with us.
I really do appreciate it.
Rebecca Williams (57:45):
Thanks, tim.
Yeah, it's been a pleasure,Great conversation, thank you.
Tim Newman (57:48):
Take care.
Be sure to visit speaking withconfidence podcastcom to get
your free ebook the top 21challenges for public speakers
and how to overcome them.
You can also register for theforum for public speaking.
Always remember your voice hasthe power to change the world.
We'll talk to you next time,take care.
Welcome back to Speaking with Confidence, a
podcast that helps you build thesoft skills that lead to real
results Communication,storytelling, public speaking
and showing up with confidencein every conversation that
counts.
I'm Tim Newman, a recoveringcollege professor turned
communication coach, and I'mthrilled to guide you on your
journey to becoming a powerfulcommunicator.
Today's guest is RebeccaWilliams.
(00:31):
Rebecca is a public speaking,storytelling and presentation
expert who helps mission-drivenorganizations and purpose-driven
overachievers change the worldthrough effective communication.
She has served as a publicspeaking coach at the Stanford
Graduate School of Business andhas trained professionals and
teams at organizations worldwide, including Google, meta and
(00:52):
Netflix.
Rebecca is passionate aboutempowering dynamic, professional
women to develop bold andconfident self-expression so
they can step into authenticfeminine leadership.
Rebecca, welcome to the show.
I'm really excited about ourconversation today.
Rebecca Williams (01:07):
Hi Tim, Thank you for having me.
I'm excited too.
Tim Newman (01:10):
Oh, this is going to be fun and let's just go ahead
and set the stage.
You know right from the get-goand I'm not using stage as a pun
you have that background intheater and all those things.
I didn't do that on purpose,but that's it as a pun.
You have that background intheater and all those things.
I didn't do that on purpose,but that's it.
You were born in Wisconsin, butyou spent a good portion of
(01:30):
your life abroad, in manydifferent countries, which I
think is awesome and I thinkit's great, and I don't think we
as Americans do enough of that.
What we can gain from that is adifferent conversation for a
different day.
But how has that shaped andchallenged you in terms of being
a communicator and how youcoach different people?
Rebecca Williams (01:51):
Yeah, this is such an interesting question.
I was actually just writingabout this this morning.
So, yeah, speaking to what yousaid, I was born in Wisconsin
but my family and I quickly wemoved to Germany when I was, I
think, around one years old andmy dad was an opera director, so
we would move around quite abit, so spent time in Germany
(02:15):
and then when I became an adult,I lived in Japan for four years
, australia.
For two years I've lived inNepal, spain, I now live in
Portugal and I spent a lot oftime in Mexico as well.
And so I've had I've had a lotof different experiences and a
lot of different cultures andwith a lot of different
(02:35):
languages and meeting a lot ofdifferent kinds of people, and
really these experiences haveinfluenced my coaching and my
communication training career in, I would say, two main ways.
One is that they help me stayhumble in the trade of helping
(03:00):
other people communicate.
So you know, of course, englishthese days is the lingua franca
.
It's what business is done in.
It used to be French, now it'sEnglish, and I think many people
forget that, and especiallyAmericans forget that there are
a lot of other languages spokenaround the world and a lot of
(03:26):
people, billions of people, arespeaking two languages, three
languages, sometimes fourlanguages, because they need to
participate in the world and inthe economy.
So I think it's dangerous tothink that everybody is on the
same playing field.
As a native speaker, and havinghad this experience of living
(03:50):
abroad and working abroad hasreally kept me humble and which
has also put me in a really deepplace of service to my
customers, my clients, because Iunderstand I've had to.
I learned Japanese when I was inJapan.
I gave speeches in Japanesewhen I was in Japan.
(04:10):
That was really hard, and sothose experiences remind me that
, hey, what my clients are doingwhen they're not speaking their
native language is even harder,and so it helps me be more
empathetic and it helps me givethem strategies to navigate the
difficulties of not onlyspeaking with confidence, but
(04:31):
like just language and how toexpress yourself so your
audience communicate with people.
So not just empathy for otherpeople communicating, but how to
(04:55):
address an audience.
So, for example, I'm teaching aworkshop in London in July and
I'm thinking a lot about my wayof being as an American and how
is what I'm saying going to landwith native English speakers,
but still native Englishspeakers who are not Americans,
(05:17):
and that's it's really important.
It is also a kind of empathy,but it's just an awareness
that's important to have whenyou're addressing any audience.
Tim Newman (05:52):
Yeah, that's such a wide breadth of international
experience.
You're still a guest in thatcountry and it's important to
make sure that we do our best toshow that we're a guest and try
to assimilate and use theirterms, use their language, use
(06:14):
their mannerisms so that youknow, so that they feel that we
actually care about who they areand their culture.
To begin with, let's just putit that way.
Rebecca Williams (06:24):
Yeah, yeah, and I love what you say about
like it's almost metaphorical.
Right, you're a guest in theircountry.
And when you think about ifyou're speaking from a stage, if
you're giving a presentation,sure, you are the star I'm doing
air quotes for people who can'tsee me.
You're the star of yourpresentation or of your talk or
(06:45):
whatever, but you're a guest inthe country.
That is the audience, right?
So you have to know youraudience.
You have to know what isacceptable and what's not
acceptable, because if you breakcertain rules it's going to be
tough for your credibility onthat stage.
Yes, and I'm not saying like,for example, I'm not going to go
(07:09):
to London and try to speak in aBritish accent.
You know that would be absurdand my British accent is
terrible, by the way, but I doknow some phrases that I
wouldn't say there, that I mightsay in the States, for example.
So it's, it's just having thatawareness and being able to work
(07:29):
with that in your repertoire ofhow you communicate.
Tim Newman (07:33):
Yeah, and, and you know, I I think about it again
the cultures are very similar.
You know, united Kingdom andUnited States obviously
different, but a lot ofsimilarities.
But let's just say you go tothe Far East, you've been to
Japan, I've been to Thailand,I've been to Malaysia and those,
the cultures there andmannerisms and language there,
(07:57):
and things are so different andit doesn't take much you know
from from that perspective, toto get off track and, um,
inadvertently offend people with, with terms or or even
mannerisms, um, so such as uh,first thing I did when I went to
(08:18):
Thailand the very first time isI stuck my hand out to shake
hands and no, that's, no, wedon't, we're not doing that.
And and, and so it's.
It's those, those, those otherthings that you have to actually
learn, that that help youbecome good communicators, if,
because if they trust you, thenyou're going to have a much
better time having good, opendialogue where you guys
(08:40):
understand each other.
Rebecca Williams (08:42):
Yeah, yeah, I remember being in Japan and I
wanted to do an English languageteacher training outside of
Japan for a month.
It was like this intensivetraining, because that's what I
was doing there.
I was teaching English as asecond language and I wanted to
do it better, and I also wantedmy board of education to not
(09:06):
only let me take the holiday,but I also wanted them to pay
for the training, because it wasit was, you know, job training
essentially and I thought, well,I'll give it a try.
And so I I talked to mysupervisor and this was all in
Japanese, so I really had topractice and prepare for this
conversation and she, she wasn'tsaying no.
(09:29):
She wasn't saying no to myrequest, and so I kept kind of
drilling in and drilling inuntil I could get her to a yes
she.
Eventually I understand now thatshe capitulated because I
wasn't getting the signals thather response was actually a no,
(09:55):
because they don't actually sayno in Japan, like you barely
almost never hear that word, andso you just have to pick up on
the cues like, oh, I get it,like their body language is this
way and they're not saying yes,right, um, but yeah, she, she
told me much later, like manyyears later, after we got to
know each other better, she waslike wow, you were, you were
(10:15):
like a freight train, like Icouldn't, I couldn't say no to
you, like it was impossible.
So I, I, I ended up gettingthat training paid for and it
was impossible.
So I, I, I ended up gettingthat training paid for and it
was great.
But more than anything, it wasjust such a lesson in
cross-cultural communication.
Tim Newman (10:30):
That's awesome.
That's a good story and a goodpoint that people understand
it's.
You had to be able to pick upon those things but again, you
have to know, to know and learnsome things going into it and
some of those you it's almostimpossible to learn until you,
until you get there and you'reyou're immersed in it, you know.
Rebecca Williams (10:50):
Yeah, yeah, and that's the fun part, right.
Because, learning, learning asyou go, that I mean.
It's that's, I believe, thebest way to learn.
Tim Newman (10:59):
Exactly, Exactly so what's your?
What's your biggest publicspeaking fail?
Rebecca Williams (11:08):
Oh man, that's easy.
I tell this story all the time.
So it was probably, I think, atthis point, like 10 years ago
now, I was in San Francisco andit was International Women's Day
and I had been asked to do atalk downtown on a stage in
front of this audience of women.
(11:29):
And I was really excitedbecause I'm really passionate
about working with women and Ilove presenting, I love being on
stage, and it comes from mydays of being on stage when my
dad was an opera director, whichis another story.
But I was excited, so I reallyprepared for this talk.
(11:50):
I, I, you know, I wrote my talkand I, I, I was memorized it and
, you know, rehearsed it many,many times and I even bought a
new jacket this like I don'tknow if you know the, the
designer helmet, but like reallycool big shoulder pads, like it
was a statement, you know.
And so the day came and I goton the stage and I launched into
(12:14):
my talk and I was reallyconfident for the first two
lines and like really nailed it.
And then the third line, I justfroze and I just blanked out
and I just looked into theaudience because there were
about like 50 women in theaudience like staring at me, and
it was very quiet because Iwasn't saying anything and they
were waiting for me to saysomething, and so I just decided
(12:35):
to start over.
I started over again.
First two lines were fine.
Third line totally missed itand you know it's refined.
Third line totally missed it andyou know it was getting really,
uh, challenging because I wasreally embarrassed you know, and
I just I was making up storiesthat, oh my God, they think they
think I'm a loser, they thinkI'm a failure.
Why am I even on this stage?
(12:57):
And I in my mind I was like,should I just get off the stage
now?
Should I just leave?
Um, then I started over onceagain and I got through the
third line and I made it to theend and you know, they gave me a
round of applause and I just Ijust kind of like snuck away and
I left the building because Iwas too embarrassed to chat with
anyone after that.
(13:18):
But I mean, the biggest, thebiggest lesson from that
experience was that.
The biggest lesson from thatexperience was that and it's
(13:47):
something that I've had to learnover and over again because
again, I have this performancebackground I was on stages and
my dad taught me how to make theaudience laugh and essentially,
manipulate the audience, and soI have this performer gene in
me now.
Tim Newman (13:52):
but when you're doing a talk it's, it's not a
performance.
Rebecca Williams (13:53):
Right, it's just like a different function.
And so so I got up there withthe intention of performing, but
then I realized in the moment,like oh, it's actually not a
performance, Like I'm here tohave a conversation with them,
and so that really shaped theway that I teach public speaking
now, Because when you have anidea in yourself that it's going
(14:16):
to be a performance, thatcauses so much anxiety Because
who's a performer?
Tim Newman (14:20):
Like, very few people in the world are
performers a performer like veryfew people in the world are,
are performers that that's sucha good story and and a good
lesson to learn.
Um, what, what about the voicein your head?
Uh, the I'm a loser.
Um, what all these people arethinking?
You know I'm horrible.
(14:41):
Um, how did you deal with thatin, in the, in the moment,
that's one thing, but in the.
How did you deal with that inthe moment?
That's one thing, but in theaftermath, how did you deal with
that?
Rebecca Williams (14:50):
Yeah, and it's really a great question,
because I am really intent onhelping people who engage in
public speaking, helping themunderstand that that
conversation inside your headit's a conversation that all of
us have.
I mean, I work with CEOs, Iwork with people who are very
(15:18):
well-respected and revered evenin their industries, and they
also struggle with that voiceand it's it's a unique thing
that public speaking kind ofkind of instigates this
conversation, this internalconversation of you know, like
bad vibes right, like when?
(15:38):
When are the other times thatwe're we're having these
negative conversations withourselves?
Oh, you suck, you should justget off the stage right now.
Um, and and I think what it isis it's really the ego is trying
to keep us small, it's tryingto protect us and, you know, say
like, oh, maybe you should justnot do this and um, but yeah,
to answer your question, I meanin the moment, in the moment for
(16:03):
that story, I just reallyfocused my attention on like I'm
committed to getting throughthis, no matter what, because
there was an option to just walkoff the stage, but that wasn't.
It wasn't an option for meright?
Tim Newman (16:17):
well, isn't that always an option?
Rebecca Williams (16:18):
that's, that's always an option it's always an
option, but it's always anoption, it's all, but to me it's
always an option.
Tim Newman (16:24):
they think I am whatever.
Rebecca Williams (16:54):
Insert negative word, right, they think
I'm a whatever.
They're not thinking that theyare looking at you.
Number one what they arethinking is wow, I'm glad that's
not me up there.
That's what they're thinking.
And they're also also thinkinglike, oh, I, you know, I, I
really want her to get throughthis.
You know, like they arecheering you on because they
(17:17):
know it's hard to do.
So that's that's really numberone.
And sure, yes, you always havethe option to walk off the stage
.
But I think you know like thisgoes into a conversation of
self-leadership.
You know, is that really anoption if you're leading
yourself to grow?
No, it's not.
(17:37):
One option is to admit like,hey, I'm really struggling up
here, I'm so nervous, and thenprobably what's going to happen
is the audience is going to giveyou a round of applause because
they want you to do well, andthen you can start again.
You might struggle a little,but you'll get through it, and
then it's a triumph, right?
So it's all in, like goingthrough that moment of challenge
(18:02):
and finding that wherewithalinside yourself to get past it.
And and then, as far as like,how do you, even before the
moment, how do you tame thosevoices in your head.
It's, it's positiveaffirmations, I mean, I think.
I think maybe a lot of yourlisteners will have a personal
(18:26):
habit of writing positiveaffirmations.
I know I do.
I write them every morning andI focus my attention on the good
stuff and, okay, here's whatI'm doing great.
And you know, here's, here'sthe value I'm bringing to the
world.
And you know, the human mind isreally good at telling negative
(18:46):
stories and finding problemsand it's up to us to train it to
see the good, including inourselves.
And we can do that especiallyaround the skills of public
speaking and how we show up inthe world.
Tim Newman (18:58):
Yeah, absolutely, and I'm glad you said that you
know, because our brain it'sit's designed to protect us and
there's negative thoughts andthat's what it thinks that it's
doing, but it's, you know, froma realistic perspective, it's
not statements or those positiveideas at the forefront, so that
(19:28):
we can actually do the thingsthat we know that we can do,
that we know that we can be goodat and work on things that we
need to get better at.
Definitely, you know when you,you wrote a book um presenting
presenting which I thought wasawesome.
I love the layout.
(19:49):
I love the concept of theinterview.
Rebecca Williams (19:52):
I'll show it.
I'll show it as part of thethat's awesome, yes.
I know some.
Some people reached out to meand they were like hey, um, do
you know that you have the wordpresenting twice?
Tim Newman (20:09):
Oh, got it, that's the whole point exactly anyway
but I love the book in for anynumber of different reasons.
You know there were a couplepieces that really stood out.
I'd like to kind of go throughwith you.
I'm a systems person andanytime that we can have a
system or an acronym that issimple and easy to remember,
(20:30):
that you can put into practiceimmediately, I think it's really
beneficial to people becauseit's something that's memorable
and it doesn't take a lot oftime and effort to be good at
those things.
Especially when it comes tocommunication and public
speaking, those types of thingsare so important because a lot
(20:54):
of times that we'recommunicating it's impromptu,
it's off the cuff.
We have to develop our thoughtsand ideas almost in real time.
But you came up with a coupleof them.
The first one is the first fiveformula, which which again, I
thought it was great, and thisis really kind of geared to the
(21:15):
whole idea of public speaking,presenting, whether it's on a
stage, in a meeting, what haveyou.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat and what that is and how
we go about doing that?
Rebecca Williams (21:26):
Yeah.
So the first five formula isit's essentially your
presentation, first impression.
So whether and I saypresentation in a lot of
different contexts it could belike you're giving a
presentation at work or doing aTed talk, it doesn't matter, but
you're presenting ideas to anaudience, but you're presenting
(21:47):
ideas to an audience, and what Ifound working with people is
that the first, like that firstbit of time when you're standing
in front of people and you'relaunching into what you're going
to say, is often the hardestpart to do.
It's the hardest part to craft,so to speak, because there are
(22:10):
a lot of different ways that youcan approach a talk.
Um, and you know, that's great,and and I'm not, I'm not for
rigidity in in a system Um, like, if you're going to do a
presentation, you have to usethis format.
No, I'm not, I'm not about that, but what I found working with
(22:31):
people over and over again isthat they just they struggle so
much like getting into it, andand that it prevents them from
doing the iterative process thatthey need to do to get their
ideas solid.
So so what I created and thisis it's been over many, many
years now, I think I think II've been developing that same
(22:57):
first five formula for over 10years at this point, and I
tested it with a lot ofdifferent people, with leaders
of companies, to individualcontributors, to, just you know,
individuals doing talks for fun, and I found that it's really
bomb proof because this formula,it sets you up, it sets up the
(23:18):
rest of your talk by connectingwith the audience, hooking them
with something interesting thatthey can lean into.
They're automatically engaged.
Presenting a point, a clearpoint, right at the beginning,
introducing a problem which thenmakes the audience lean in,
(23:39):
because when there's a problem,that's when we lean in becomes
interesting.
That's storytelling.
And then five is introducingthis agenda, like, okay, this is
what I'm going to talk about,which is basically, it's
Aristotle, right, tell them whatyou're going to tell them, tell
them what you told them.
So it's five parts and it'smeant to be done in the first
(23:59):
five minutes of your talk.
And so the five parts areconnect, hook, point, problem,
agenda.
So connect by asking a question, hook by telling a story.
Point state your point in asentence or less very concise.
Problem, introduce a problemthat the content of your
(24:22):
presentation will answer orsolve.
And then, finally, the agendais hey, this is what I'm going
to talk about.
So these five things in thefirst five minutes.
They do a lot of things.
They connect you to youraudience, they engage them.
It makes it really clear whatyou're going to talk about and
(24:46):
it generates some interestbecause you've introduced a
problem to talk about.
And it creates, generates someinterest because you've
introduced a problem into themix.
And then it prepares them forwhat they're going to hear.
So I I teach this to all myclients and to all the companies
I work with, because it's I'venever seen it not work, honestly
, like for so many different umexamples that I can share more
(25:10):
about the examples, if you like,but it it just I like to say,
like it's a slide into yourcontent, like your content's
this big pool of stuff.
So how are you going to getinto the pool?
Well, you could, you couldthrow people in, but uh, you
know that doesn't feel reallygood.
A slide is kind of fun, youknow, and it allows them to go
in gradually and have anexperience along the way.
Tim Newman (25:32):
Yeah, and again you bring up really good points and
if you could give an example ofone that worked, I think that
would be great.
The whole idea that you've gotto connect and hook almost
immediately or you lose them, Imean that that is, that is so,
that's so important.
But if you could give anexample, I'd love to hear it.
Rebecca Williams (25:51):
Yeah.
So of course I use this formulawith all of my trainings and
teachings and webinars, and solet's see, I'll see if I can
remember one that I did.
So it's going to be a littlebit meta because I'm talking
about presenting and publicspeaking skills.
So imagine the curtain opens,the metaphorical curtain opens,
(26:15):
the camera turns on and I leadwith a question right.
So again it's five pointsConnect, hook, point problem
agenda.
So connect.
What's your biggest strugglewhen it comes to giving
presentations?
What's your biggest strugglewhen it comes to giving
presentations?
Okay, and then I either havethem answer in the chat or I,
you know, get a few people toanswer in the audience, or maybe
it's rhetorical.
(26:35):
You don't need them to answer,but just cuing that.
It's a conversation, it's notjust a monologue.
So what's your biggest strugglewhen it comes to giving
presentations?
And then hook, you tell them astory.
So I, I, I often tell the storythat I already told about that
day, the international women'sday in san francisco, point.
Uh, what?
(26:57):
What was my point?
It was something like um, greatleaders are great presenters,
something like like a verysimple point, but problem, many
people have forgotten.
Or I think it was great leadersare great storytellers, but
(27:18):
many people have forgotten howto tell stories.
And then the last point isagenda.
So today I'm going to talkabout basic story structure, how
to tie up your story with aresolution and how to include
storytelling in every talk yougive.
Let's get started Right, soit's, it's, I don't know.
Is that clear?
(27:38):
I'll let you respond to that.
Tim Newman (27:40):
So that to me, to me , that's really clear and I'm
really glad that that's theexample that you gave, because
one of the things that I think alot of people struggle with is
how to tell a story, or where weget stories from, or how do we
start the story, or I don't havethis big, great, big, grand
story.
So what are some ideas ortechniques that we can use?
(28:06):
We can use to to help peoplebecome, you know, better stories
, better storytellers.
Rebecca Williams (28:13):
Yeah Well, I could talk about this for days,
for sure, but why don't I focuson two things right away?
So number one there's thisphrase that I always use, and it
is specific, is terrific.
So a storyteller is effectivewhen they can really, like, make
(28:39):
us feel like we're there.
Tim Newman (28:41):
Yes.
Rebecca Williams (28:42):
Right, and the way we help our audience feel
like they're there is by givingthe details.
And sure, we have to strike abalance of how many details do I
share, because you could drownpeople in details and then it's
not interesting anymore.
But you do want to pepper yourstory with details.
So, for example, theInternational Women's Day talk
(29:04):
or story that I told you, howmany people did I say were in
the audience?
Tim, let me give you a littlequiz right now.
Tim Newman (29:11):
See what you remember About 50.
Rebecca Williams (29:14):
Okay, great.
And what color was the jacket Iwas wearing?
Tim Newman (29:19):
Oh my gosh, I know it had big, big shoulder pads.
It was designed Okay, it hadbig shoulder pads.
Rebecca Williams (29:24):
It was black with big shoulder pads.
Yeah, so you remember thatdetail right.
And how many times did it takeme until I finally got through
the talk?
Tim Newman (29:34):
Three.
Rebecca Williams (29:35):
Three, yeah, so all of that, like you could
answer those questions because Igave you details there which is
what makes a story memorable,like I didn't ask you to
remember those things, but youremembered them because they're
specific.
So so that's the first keypoint is specific, is terrific,
and vague is forgotten.
If you're vague in yourstorytelling, if you say, for
(29:58):
example, um, last week I wentabroad and did a talk, you know
like well, where'd you go?
What did you talk about?
Like, give us something, giveus something, yeah.
So so that's first as specific,as terrific.
(30:18):
And the second thing I'll say isthat stories I mean our whole
life is a story.
Right, it's one long storywhich is made up of a lot of
little stories and then storieswithin those stories.
Like you know, for me, where Iam right now, it's 245.
(30:38):
In the afternoon I've alreadyhad a million stories today,
like when my locker at the gymwouldn't open and when I got an
unexpected email from thecompany I'm working with.
Like those are all littlestories.
So we have to know what is thestory we're telling and we have
(30:58):
to tell only that story, becausethe danger and I've seen it
happen over and over again isthat people they don't know when
to stop and they hook in allthese other storylines and it
becomes really muddy and messy.
So it's really about clarityand being ruthless in your
editing and forcing yourself tobe succinct in your storytelling
(31:20):
.
Tim Newman (31:20):
And that's what I guess, that's what helps you
also be specific too, If you'renot letting these tentacles go
out with all these otherdifferent things.
You really have thatopportunity and the ability to
drill down and be specific insome of these points.
Rebecca Williams (31:36):
Yeah, yeah, because if you're telling a
story that's as big as Canada,then you're not going to have
time to add specifics, becausethen it would be far too long,
right?
So go narrow and deep.
Tim Newman (31:48):
I want to go back to something that you said a
little earlier, because then itwould be far too long, right?
So so go narrow and deep.
I want to go back to somethingthat you said a little earlier.
Rebecca Williams (32:01):
You said you, you like to make people laugh,
are you?
Are you funny?
I think I'm funny, yeah.
Tim Newman (32:06):
I think I'm funny and that's there's a reason why
I ask that question, because youknow there's a lot of people
who don't think that they'refunny, but they're.
They come off as funny.
I mean, they make people laughfor whatever reason.
It could be mannerisms, itcould be the way they said
something, it could be, itreally could be.
How do we, how do we infusehumor into our communication
(32:31):
styles and into ourpresentations, into our really
our basic interpersonalcommunication?
Because I think you nailed itwith humor is so important in
how we communicate and how weget our message across.
Rebecca Williams (32:46):
Yeah, well, I think what I'll say here is that
you know, there there's acontinuum of what funny is,
right, like there's there's meand then there's robin williams
over here.
You know it's totally, totally adifferent league, um, but
that's not to say that you knowwell where am I going with it.
(33:11):
I really believe that everyonehas the ability to have some
humor and it doesn't mean thatthey have to again perform like
Robin Williams.
But I think so much of it isjust being comfortable with
yourself and having a laugh atyourself, you know, and not
taking yourself so seriously,because I think a lot of my
(33:34):
humor is self, you know.
It's like I'm making fun ofmyself a lot, you know.
Having the confidence to makefun of yourself, I think, is a
great window and it gives, itgives other people permission to
(34:00):
not take themselves soseriously.
So it brings a lightness, likea it's a shift in tone, that is.
It's really valuable.
When you are um steely facedand super serious and you're not
allowing other people to betheir quirky selves, then it
(34:22):
it's like going to a wake, youknow, like nobody's going to
have a good time.
So I think it it's superimportant to, number one, not
take yourself so seriously, evenif you're not, if you don't
consider yourself traditionallyfunny.
Um, bring some lightness intowhat you're doing by having a
laugh by um.
(34:43):
I think curiosity is one of thebest ways to not take yourself
seriously is get curious aboutwhat other people are thinking
and saying either in the meeting, in your audience.
Get curious to not take yourideas as paramount.
I think that's really importanttoo.
Tim Newman (35:00):
Yeah, you know, I'm really glad you said that.
And again, there's a differencebetween being funny and being a
comedian, right and and and Ilike that.
You said uh, it's not aperformance.
I'm also someone who usesself-deprecating humor and I I
(35:22):
agree with you.
I think it's so important thatpeople can see uh see you making
fun of yourself or making jokesabout yourself, because it does
open number one I think itgives you more credibility.
It also opens them up to relaxa little bit and to let their
(35:42):
guard down a little bit, and Ithink once that happens, the
communication process becomes somuch easier.
I think once that happens, thecommunication process becomes so
much easier.
You're not fighting the wallsor the barriers and you can
truly get down to whatever it isthat needs to be done.
Rebecca Williams (36:04):
I just think that is so important.
Yeah, have you ever seen SirKen Robinson's Ted talk on
education?
Tim Newman (36:11):
Yeah, that to me is one of the best ones ever, and I
you know.
I actually use that and I'vegot a standard, standard
presentation.
It's kind of the I use that asa model and I talk about that
all the time.
Just go ahead.
I'm sorry, yeah.
Rebecca Williams (36:29):
Well, so he he leads with the question and it
is his question that he leadswith is hilarious.
He walks out on stage like Tedtalk in front of all these
hundreds of people and hisquestion is how are you doing?
Ask the whole audience, how areyou doing?
So, again, that's the firstpart of the first five formulas.
Connect, like first connect.
(36:49):
Ask a question, a question,like get, get into it with
people, and and he is such amaster at self-deprecating humor
I mean, wow, what, howhilarious is he?
But the thing is when, whenpeople laugh, you know they're
laughing because they're feelingsomething, and and when people
feel things, they remember thosethings, and so humor is a huge
(37:12):
part of what it should be.
I believe it's a huge part ofeducation and I also believe
that, public speaking, it's asort of education, a kind of
education.
So yeah, yeah.
Tim Newman (37:26):
I think we can go down some serious rabbit holes
with that and I'm glad youbrought that up because I 100%
agree with you with everythingyou just said.
And I think if we, from aneducation perspective, if we
took a step back and made someadjustments, we wouldn't need
(37:47):
our jobs would be very different.
Rebecca Williams (37:48):
Let's just put it that way, you know how we
coach people would.
Jobs will be very different.
Tim Newman (37:50):
Let's just put that way you know, the, the how we
coach people would be very, verydifferent, and I just think
that, uh, from an educationalsystem perspective, we've really
missed the mark, yeah, and I Ithink it's.
Rebecca Williams (38:05):
It's worthwhile bringing up ai in the
context of education as well aspublic speaking right now,
because, you know, obviously wehave this new technology and
it's shaking up industries, it'schanging the world and I think
a lot of people are reallythey're scared of like, oh, is
AI going to take my job and youknow, how am I going to navigate
(38:26):
this new landscape?
(38:50):
And how am I going to navigatethis new landscape?
And what I am 100% convinced ofis that AI is going to force us
to be better storytellers andit's going to force us to be
better connectors, Because it'sone thing to have information
and share information withpeople AI is great at that but
AI does not have livedexperience.
Sure, it can make up a story,but that's very different from
hearing a human being'sexperience on the planet and how
it changed them and what theylearned.
So we really we owe it toourselves and to all of you
listening.
I challenge you to tell morestories and become more
(39:10):
proficient at storytelling anduse that to wield influence in
your personal and professionallives, Because I really think
that that's going to be the.
It's going to be the thing thatsets you apart as a
professional as more and more asAI comes into our world.
Tim Newman (39:25):
Yeah, Again I love that you said that.
Again, I agree.
I look at it along the samelines in that, you know, I don't
care what business or industryyou're in, everything is still
always going to come down topersonal relationships and
connections.
And if we can't build personalrelationships, we can't tell
(39:47):
those stories.
If we can't communicate withindividuals, we're not going to
relationships.
We can't tell those stories.
If we can't communicate withindividuals, we're not going to
make it.
So it can be AI.
I mean you can have it, butyou're still.
You're still going to have tointeract with people.
Rebecca Williams (39:58):
You're still going to have to have
relationships.
Tim Newman (40:00):
You're still going to have to have to build those
relationships and cultivate themand and and connect with people
, and, and that that's where youknow again yeah, definitely
yeah, and I, I mean, I use aievery day.
Rebecca Williams (40:17):
you know, I have two ai platforms that I use
literally every day.
It's my assistant, um, butthere are a lot of things I
don't use it for.
Like, I don't use it to help mewith storytelling, right.
Maybe if I write a story andthen I need some help editing,
I'm like, ah, you know, how canI make this more concise or how
(40:42):
can I make this clearer?
But I'm very, very careful,because it it works so fast, it
can lose a lot of the nuance andthe humanity of a thing or the
turn of phrase.
And you know, we, we, we owe itto ourselves to to be to pay
attention to all of that stuff,because AI is not perfect, right
, and we have skills that westill need to be developing.
(41:06):
We can't just hand it all over.
Tim Newman (41:08):
Right, exactly, exactly.
Yeah, I put something it was,it was like a, it was like a one
page narrative into chat GPTand I and I I obviously didn't
give it a really good prompt andthat's it, that's the other
piece to it.
And when it spit it back out, Iread it and I said you've,
(41:29):
you've changed the entiremeaning of it.
Change the entire meaning of it.
It doesn't sound like meanymore and and I was like well,
well I just wasted all the time.
I wish what?
two and a half minutes of doing,but you know but and you got
frustrated so that's part ofyour time, yeah, but put you.
(41:49):
But again, part of it is theprompt I needed.
I probably needed to give it abetter prompt, but but I didn't.
So I just scrapped that insteadof going forward and I gave it
to my wife to look at and editand say, look, this is what I'm
thinking.
Is it getting that point across?
Does it make that point Again?
Does it sound like me, you knowfrom?
(42:12):
You know really from thatperspective, you know really
from that perspective, becausenot getting too deep, but my
writing process is a little bitdifferent.
But I go from being verystructured and professional and
then I create it to make itsound like I'm actually talking,
(42:33):
as opposed to you know, awritten document.
Let's put it that way.
Rebecca Williams (42:40):
Yeah, that's great.
Yeah, one of my favoriteprompts is don't rewrite this,
let's have a conversation aboutit.
And that's helpful because it'syeah, it's really.
Then it becomes your thoughtpartner instead of your, your
writer.
Like, I don't really believethat.
Um ai does a great job atwriting quite yet right yeah, so
(43:01):
, but but being a thoughtpartner is helpful, that's,
that's a I like it.
Tim Newman (43:08):
I really do.
Um, yeah, I saw a there's.
There's a youtube video aboutright it's.
It's writing the best promptever to write a prompt.
Rebecca Williams (43:26):
Wow.
Tim Newman (43:27):
And and and it was.
It was like a page and a halfof of prompt telling it how it
wants the other prompt to be.
So I'm like that's, that'sgetting a bit too much for me,
because if I'm doing all of that, you know I'll just go ahead
and write myself anyway.
But you're right, I think AIcan really help and if we're not
(43:48):
using AI, I think we're doingit wrong, because you better
learn how to use it.
There's a lot of benefits to itand I do think that.
I think, I do think that Ithink I think the people that
are afraid afraid that they'regoing to take their job or
(44:09):
whatever reason I think if theywere to just maybe learn a
little bit about what, what it'sdoing and where it's going,
they'll understand that, yes, itmay take over some tasks, but
it's not going to take overeverything that it's portrayed,
that it's going to take overbecause, again, it's still going
to be that there'sinterpersonal relationships.
Rebecca Williams (44:30):
Yeah well, I really subscribe to what Scott
Galloway says about AI, in thatyou're not going to lose your
job to AI.
You're going to lose your jobto someone who understands and
knows how to use AI, which is100% true.
And if you are one of thosepeople who hasn't engaged with
AI yet and either you'reskeptical or fearful, or you're
(44:52):
just not interested, I wouldjust encourage you to get on the
free version of chat GPT andask it to help you plan a trip
to Spain or wherever you want togo.
Like, just start using it inyour day to day life.
So, number one, so you're moreefficient, because it will help
(45:14):
you be more efficient with a tonof different tasks.
Like, what did I ask it to dothe other day?
I think I asked it to I wasstarting this new like testing
out this new eating regimen, andI said, okay, you know I'm I, I
can only eat this stuff.
Can you come up with a shoppinglist for me so that when I go
(45:35):
to the grocery store, I knowwhat to buy?
And it just went and I was like, okay, great.
And then out the door I went.
You know, I didn't have tothink about it, it was just it's
my assistant, yeah, and, andyou know, when you, I think,
when you start using it in lowstakes scenarios like that, you
really start to understand howit can be helpful to you in your
(45:55):
, in your life.
Because that's what technologyis for.
Like, we use technology all thetime.
Like this pen is technology,how would your life be different
if you didn't have a pen?
You know, like technologyevolves us, it sparks our
evolution.
So, ignoring a tool, a newtechnology, it's, it's not, it's
(46:17):
not a great idea because it'shappening anyway.
It's kind of like saying, oh um, you know, I understand that
the car exists as a technology,but I'm not going to participate
in that yeah, I'm out ofautomobiles, I'm out right, I'm
just gonna bike everywhere and,hey, that's fine, like that's a
choice too.
You're going to have great legsand a great butt.
But you know, like, let's bereal, like this is the way the
(46:40):
world is is going exactly yeah,again, I did.
Tim Newman (46:48):
I love the ai conversation.
I didn't what wasn't planningon going there, but it's so
important and it's so importantfrom the communication
perspective that we talk aboutthis and that people understand
AI's role and how we can use itto help become better
communicators.
You know there's so many thingsout there and I talk especially
(47:09):
with you know people that areapplying for jobs and young
professionals going out to getthe first job.
There are programs and AImodels out there where you can
feed the prompt and it will giveyou a practice interview and
can grade you on those things.
So you know, there's ways thatwe can use AI to actually help
(47:29):
us become better communicatorsas well.
So don't be don't be sostandoffish on it and embrace it
, cause, like you said, it'shere, it's not going anywhere.
Rebecca Williams (47:37):
Yeah, and I actually I have a platform that
I use with my clients all thetime.
Excuse me, it's called YoodliY-O-O-D-L-I dot AI and it's an
AI speech coach and there's afree version, which is really
great, and I encourage you tocheck it out, where you can do
interview role plays and it cangive you speech feedback and
(47:59):
stuff like that.
But then I have a version thatI use with my clients and I've
trained it on my content.
So, for example, it knows thefirst five formula and it knows
all these different frameworksthat I teach.
And, yeah, it's a great waybecause look like working with a
coach one-on-one.
It can be expensive and noteverybody has those resources.
(48:22):
So, using AI to improve yourcommunication skills, like you
said, it's totally on the tableand it's really useful.
It's really useful.
I share all the time thatstudies show over and over again
that communication skills arereally the number one skill you
(48:43):
need to advance in your career,you want to be in a leadership
role.
If you want to get promoted, ifyou want to raise, you need
communication skills to not justprove yourself worthy, but you
need communication skills to askfor the raise or ask for the
promotion or, you know, or leadpeople exactly.
So, yeah, I can't stress itenough how important it is to
(49:06):
practice these skills.
Tim Newman (49:08):
Well, you're using the AI for lots of good things.
I'm using it to developpictures of me going surfing.
That's how I spent, you know, acouple hours on over the
weekend.
Rebecca Williams (49:21):
How are you doing that?
Like what, what's that?
Tim Newman (49:23):
Oh, so I can't remember the actual website, but
it's, it's.
So.
Basically, what you do is you,you, you get high quality
pictures of yourself, your face,your, your body, and you, you,
you need about 30 of them andyou put them into this AI system
and I can't remember.
I'll text it to you and I'llactually put it in the show
(49:44):
notes for everybody too, and itruns whatever it does, whatever
it does.
And then you can use that modeland you can give it prompts.
Model and you can give itprompts.
So I said you know, have haveme, um, and I gave my my age,
(50:12):
height, weight.
Uh, surfing in Hawaii wearing a, wearing a, a, a, a blue shirt
and swim trunks or whatever.
And it comes back and now someof them are very good, but some
of them are really pretty good.
Rebecca Williams (50:19):
Wow, okay, so it's an image generator that
you've trained on your, your ownimages.
Yes, yeah, and it's okay.
Tim Newman (50:26):
And so, and the reason why I started doing it is
because I making thumbnails forYouTube, you know, cause I have
.
I have some images that I useand that's great, but I want to
be a little bit, start being alittle bit more creative with it
and and you can do all kinds ofstuff.
So I did one.
My, my youngest daughter, gotmarried a couple of years ago
(50:47):
and when I sent them to myfamily I said, look, you know,
do you guys, do you, do you allremember when we did this?
And they're like when did we dothat?
I don't remember that at all.
So you tricked them, I did, Idid and then, I sent them.
I did one my daughter.
(51:08):
My daughter got married acouple of years ago, and I said,
beth, you don't remember megiving the speech at your
wedding.
And she thought to herself ohwow, is I that drunk already?
Exactly, here's the thing,though, and if you have anybody
else in the picture, though, solike in in the wedding ones that
(51:29):
I did, uh it, the it confusesit, so it puts you in the other
people's positions.
So I was in that picture, likethree other times, with your
other people, so it had topicture me standing up with a
microphone, speaking, but peoplein the background were actually
me so that's creepy.
Rebecca Williams (51:46):
Oh, I love it.
Yeah, please share that with me.
I'm going to spend hours onthat, I'm sure.
Tim Newman (51:51):
Yeah, and it's cheap too.
So so you pay for you pay bypicture.
It's like three cents a picture.
Rebecca Williams (51:57):
Oh wow, that's great, super accessible.
Tim Newman (52:04):
Yeah, so we went down that rabbit hole.
That is what it is.
Let's get back to talking aboutyour book, I think that's sure.
Anyway, you know, again I toldyou I really like the layout and
the interview format.
It's it's really really unique.
How did that come about, andcan you give us a bit more
detail on the book and wherethey can get it and those types
of things?
Rebecca Williams (52:22):
Yeah, so.
So the book, the format, as yousaid, it came about because, so
for for, for those of you whohaven't seen it, which is
probably most of you, the bookis done in an interview format.
So my friend, jeff Goldsmith heused to work at Wired Magazine
years ago and he was, he was awriter but also an interviewer.
(52:48):
So he would go interview famouspeople, like he interviewed
Cheech and Chong, he interviewedAllen Ginsberg, and then he
would turn those interviews intocontent for the magazine.
And so I I've known Jeff foryears, um from San Francisco,
and he reached out to me one dayand he said hey, I have this
idea.
He's like what if I interviewyou about what you do and we'll
turn it into a book?
(53:08):
And I thought, oh, that's great, because number one, I I love
writing number one, but numbertwo, I have to say, like it's
pretty selfish, I was gettingtired of saying the same things
all the time, you know, like Ijust wanted to codify everything
so I could say, oh, go readchapter two, you know.
So there was a littleself-purpose in there.
(53:32):
But so we set out on thisproject and what we did is we
did about two years, it took twoyears and we probably met every
other month or something likethat, and we met over Zoom and
he would interview me and he hadaccess to a lot of my documents
that I use in my work in mybusiness, training people and
(53:55):
communication skills, and so hewould look at those and then ask
me questions based on what hewas finding there, to try to
unpack what I do and mymethodology.
And so what became of that wasjust a very interesting
conversation between two friendsabout public speaking, and
(54:16):
after those interviews were alldone, we we took it and we had
all the interviews transcribedand then, and then I took it and
I edit, I entered into theediting process, which you know,
the editing process can bequite hard because you're you're
trying to tell a story with alot of content that's seemingly
on the same level, right, soyou're trying to figure out
what's the beginning, what's themiddle, what's the end, and and
(54:39):
so it was a super joyfulprocess because I I love I think
one of the reasons why I loveteaching and coaching
communication skills andespecially storytelling, is
because I love structure and Ilove things to be in place so
that they have a function and sothey're meaningful, and so
(55:02):
taking all of that informationand then putting it into a
structure that has meaning forpeople was really a joyful
process for me.
And yeah, and that's what cameout of it is this book and, um,
yeah, you, you read it tim I did.
Tim Newman (55:19):
Yeah, I I really enjoyed it because, again it it
flowed really nice.
There were a lot of stories inthere, which which again made it
a real easy read.
You know, it was something thatI could relate to a lot, a lot
of really good points and, um, Iwould suggest, I would suggest
people just pick it up and readit, because it's easy to read.
(55:40):
It's not a hard book tounderstand.
There's a lot of really goodinformation there that you can
use again, like right away youread it.
Oh, that's a good idea.
You can start using it rightaway.
It's not something that youhave to work on or plan for
weeks or once at a time.
You read it and you can startusing it right away and start
(56:00):
becoming better today and nothave to wait.
Rebecca Williams (56:04):
Yeah, yeah, I take pride in being a practical
teacher, so it's very practical.
Lots of super clear tips andstrategies for how to be a
better public speaker, how to bea better storyteller.
And yeah, I, I, I guaranteethat you will.
You will learn something andthat you remember a lot.
(56:25):
And you know there's a lot inhere, too, about, about mindset
and about you know some of thethings we've talked about, like
don't take yourself so seriouslyand have fun with it.
And you know we're all makingthese mistakes and you know it's
not, it's it's not priming youto give a Ted talk per se, but
it's it's encouraging you toraise your voice and take the
(56:47):
microphone and engage in that,because it really really does
matter to share what's on theinside of you with with other
people.
So, yeah, you can pick it up onAmazon and, yeah, I encourage
you to grab it.
It's a great resource.
Tim Newman (57:03):
Absolutely, and where else can people find you,
to connect with you?
Rebecca Williams (57:08):
Yeah, so you can find me on Instagram at
RealRebeccaWilliams, and you canalso find me on LinkedIn at
RebeccaWilliamsWorks, and thoseare the main places.
I also have a YouTube channel Ithink it's at Rebecca dash
Williams or something like that,but I encourage you, just reach
out to me on LinkedIn andInstagram and say that you heard
(57:29):
me on on Tim show.
That'd be great.
I'd love to connect with people.
Tim Newman (57:33):
That's awesome.
I appreciate it.
I'll put all those links in theshow notes for everybody so
that they have it.
And, Rebecca, thank you so muchfor for joining me today and
spend some time with us.
I really do appreciate it.
Rebecca Williams (57:45):
Thanks, tim.
Yeah, it's been a pleasure,Great conversation, thank you.
Tim Newman (57:48):
Take care.
Be sure to visit speaking withconfidence podcastcom to get
your free ebook the top 21challenges for public speakers
and how to overcome them.
You can also register for theforum for public speaking.
Always remember your voice hasthe power to change the world.
We'll talk to you next time,take care.
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