November 24, 2025 • 52 mins
Have you ever wondered how introverts can thrive on stage and conquer self-doubt, even when anxiety and imposter syndrome are in the way? In this episode of Speaking with Confidence, we dive deep into the journeys, frameworks, and behind-the-scenes realities of overcoming hesitation so you can step up and speak out—no matter how nervous you may feel.
Today, I’m excited to welcome my friend Michael Pope: an international keynote speaker, leadership coach, and author of Doers Win the Day. Known as the Hesitation Breaker, Michael Pope brings over two decades of IT and leadership experience, having transformed software developers into adept people developers. His expertise centers on productivity, overcoming hesitation, and equipping high achievers and introverted professionals with the tools they need to succeed.
We explore the unique challenges introverts face when the spotlight is on. Michael Pope opens up about his process for “recharging on demand” after high-energy engagements and the importance of being present and available to audience members after events—even if it feels uncomfortable at first. We also discuss practical networking strategies, like attending events with a purpose-driven list of connections, and why you must add value to others before asking anything in return.
A major highlight of our conversation is imposter syndrome and the excuses that creep in. We talk candidly about those moments of hesitation—like almost inviting a dream guest on the show but never quite hitting send.
We unpack Michael Pope’s signature DOER framework (Discipline, Opportunity, Eliminate Excuses, Responsibility) and how it applies not just to speaking, but to every area of personal and professional growth. He gives real-life examples of stretching outside your comfort zone, preparing for high-stakes talks (and recovering when things go wrong), and the importance of coaching and mentorship—no matter how seasoned you become.
Here’s what we cover in this episode:
- Why sharing personal stories (especially about family) builds trust and relatability
- Strategies for introverts to thrive on stage and in back-to-back networking environments
- The necessity of approaching events and networking with a clear, value-driven purpose
- The DOER framework and how to use it to push through hesitation, excuses, and fear
- Real talk on imposter syndrome and actionable ways to move past it
- How joining Toastmasters and investing in coaching can fast track your progress
- Surprising lessons from sharing the stage with legends like Les Brown and learning from mentors like Roddy Galbraith
- The process of preparing for a major keynote event—from understanding the client’s goals to practicing with intention
- When technology fails: staying cool, calm, and professional under pressure
- The power of recording yourself and constructive self-feedback for brand-new speakers
- Why celebrating small wins every day fuels growth and momentum for the long haul
If you want to find your authentic voice, build rock-solid speaking habits, and finally stop holding yourself back, you’ll want to listen to every minute of this episode. Tune in, take notes, and remember: your voice has the power to change the world—but only if you’re brave enough to use it.
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Episode Transcript
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Tim Newman (00:10):
Welcome back to Speaking with Confidence, a
podcast that helps you build thesoft skills that lead to real
results.
Communication, storytelling,public speaking, and showing up
with confidence in everyconversation that counts.
I'm Tim Newman, a recoveringcollege professor turned
communication coach, and I'mthrilled to guide you on your
journey to becoming a powerfulcommunicator.
Today's guest is Michael Pope.
(00:31):
Michael has 20 plus years in ITand leadership development and
has transformed softwaredevelopers into people
developers.
He is an international keynotespeaker and leadership coach,
known as the hesitation breakerand the author of Doers Win the
Day.
He speaks to high achievers,corporate professionals, and
coaches leaders on productivity,leadership, and overcoming
(00:52):
hesitation.
Michael, welcome to speakingwith confidence.
You know, we we connected uhyou know on a Zoom call, you
know, a couple months ago, butin person in August.
And we'll come back to that.
But before we get started, Iwant to bring up something that
really kind of you did thatreally kind of resonated with
me.
I saw a post that you did onLinkedIn oh a few weeks ago
(01:17):
where where you said you wentand went witnessed your your
sons um uh get black belt andkarate.
Yes.
And one of the things that whatresonates with me is people
that actually talk about theirfamilies and their stories and
in their in their posts, becausefor for me, that's what I do.
But my stories are about me andmy kids, my family, whatever it
(01:38):
is.
And to me that that's thatshows a a different kind of
person and what family actuallymeans to them.
Michael Pope (01:46):
Absolutely.
Yeah, it means a whole lot tome for sure.
My wife and I have three sons,and they're all in um karate.
Three black belts.
So yeah.
Tim Newman (01:55):
Dude, that's awesome.
Uh you don't have to worryabout you know protecting your
house.
I mean, it's all everything'sall taken care of.
You know, but it's it it's tome, it it's important and shows
what what is what other peopleare important, what what what is
important to other people,let's just put it that way.
And and that's kind of how weum or or how I look at it, you
(02:16):
know, it's it's it's it's aboutthat.
But you know, we could like Isaid we connected at uh
International Maxwell Confconference in uh August.
Yeah and you and you were onstage and we can we connected
after that.
And when when people go onstage, you know, I I maybe I
look at things differently.
You know, I remember what youtalked about.
(02:38):
You talked about the the valueframework um in and and and
teaching people how to use uhyou know go high level and that
type of thing.
So you know, I'm sure a lot ofpeople come come off and say,
Michael, you did a great job.
Um, but what but what did youlearn?
But you're an introvert like Iam.
How do you react and how do youhandle as soon as you get off
stage and people are are bumrushing you, they want to talk
(03:00):
to you when they congratulategood pictures and that and that
that type of thing.
Michael Pope (03:04):
Yeah, great question, Tim.
Um, as an introvert, and youand you know how introverts are,
right?
Normally we want to be alone,especially after giving of
ourselves.
A lot of times we want to goback and and just recharge.
What I've learned is as aspeaker, I owe it to my audience
to be present, right?
So if people want to come upand take pictures, they want to
(03:24):
come up and ask questions, I oweit to them to be present.
So what I do is I've learnedhow to quickly within seconds
just refresh my mind and andchange my state to a state of
giving.
unknown (03:40):
Right.
Michael Pope (03:40):
And I'm looking at okay, how can I add value to
this person?
Even if I'm tired, I can stillpush through it and open up and
connect with them.
And it it takes me out of mycomfort zone as an introvert,
however, uh I owe it to theaudience.
Tim Newman (03:57):
Well, and you know that that's really does say say
a lot.
And again, let's look at itfrom from the introvert's
perspective, because I'm I'malso a raging introvert.
And you know, when you when youcome off the stage, and so I I
look at it like this.
When I go to a networking eventand I teach people, you know,
go in with purpose.
Yes.
(04:17):
When you go to a conference, goin with purpose.
Don't just, you know, becauseif you don't, you're gonna be
overwhelmed and you won't getanything accomplished.
And so, like when I went toIMC, that was first my first
time at IMC, one number one, Ihad no idea what to expect.
But there were a number ofpeople that I wanted to connect
with.
I they they were on my list,right?
I want to connect with thisperson, I want to talk to them,
(04:38):
I want to learn about this, andthis that's such a smart
technique that go into anetworking event, right?
Michael Pope (04:42):
You gotta you'll be kind of all there and teach
that because going in withpurpose with a list, that's
that's so smart.
Tim Newman (04:50):
Right.
And when you go in with thatlist, don't just go in, hi, I'm
I'm Tim.
Bring value, right?
You because you because you'reyou're looking, you want to add
value.
If you want to get value back,you have to add value.
You know, so you should knowwho these people are or know
something about them so that younumber one, there's a
conversation starter, thatthere's something in common that
you all can can build on orwhatever.
Um that that's the other thingthat that's really important.
(05:13):
But there were like there werefive key people that were on my
list, and and you were one ofthem.
And I'm so glad that we did geta chance to connect.
And we know we talked about youknow, another person that was
on the list that I didn't get,that that I'm gonna have to get
outside of my comfort zone ifI'm ever really gonna get be
able to connect with thatperson.
Because high-profile person,always surrounded by people,
(05:36):
always trying people, you know,other people are trying to uh
take that time.
So as an introvert, we have tofigure those things out.
unknown (05:44):
Yeah.
Michael Pope (05:44):
I say you I say you need to invite her to your
show.
Tim Newman (05:47):
I you know what?
I here's here comes the truth.
Here comes the truth.
Because we gotta be honest,right?
I've almost done it five times.
I've almost done it five times,so I haven't done it yet.
It's it's it's like it's thatthat imposter syndrome.
Why why would she want to comeon my show?
Michael Pope (06:07):
Been there, been there, yeah.
Tim Newman (06:08):
And you know, part of it, and honestly, what one of
the things I've been doing iswhat's what's my value
proposition to her to get her toto spend an hour and a half
with me and my audience?
That's what I have to figureout, right?
Because I'm sure you know I'msure she gets requests every
(06:30):
day.
And she's just you know, one ofthe things that you learn is
you have to figure out how tospend your time and who you're
gonna spend your time with.
So, what kind of value can Ibring for her to be able to come
on the show?
And you know, um, I'd like tobrag, you know, we got a pretty
good sized audience here.
You know, we're you know, we'rewe're pr ranked pretty high in
you know uh worldwide, but whatkind of value can we bring?
(06:53):
And because I know she'll bringvalue, period.
I mean, every every time I'veheard her speak, she brings
value.
Yes, that's the other thing.
So get outside your comfortzone, do th do the hard thing.
As as Ryan Leak would say, doit scared.
Michael Pope (07:06):
Uh yeah, absolutely do it scared.
Be willing to fail, right?
Tim Newman (07:08):
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
So one here we we've talked anumber of times about there are
so many IT professionals in thisspace because for you know, for
whatever reason, they'rethey're they're trained, they're
highly technical, they don'tnecessarily have to deal with
people, but to progressanywhere, you have to learn how
(07:29):
to communicate.
Michael Pope (07:31):
That was me growing up, yeah.
For sure.
Even when I started my when Ifirst started my career, Tim, I
remember I would sit at thetable and they would say, Hey,
we've got this problem.
Anyone have any ideas?
And I'm a natural problemsolver, so I would solve the
problem in my head, but Iwouldn't raise my hand because I
was like, Oh, somebody elsealready have that, or I figured
(07:52):
it out too soon.
Like I would I would doubtmyself.
Right.
And then someone else wouldanswer the same thing I was
thinking about, and then I feltreally bad because I was like, I
knew the answer.
I knew I had to write, and Ididn't speak up.
Tim Newman (08:05):
And so, how did you get over that?
Michael Pope (08:08):
For me, it was personal development, right?
I started reading personaldevelopment books, and then I
ended up joining Toastmasters in2003, and that started the
process of me learning how toeffectively use my voice.
And Toastmasters gave me anaudience of people who would pay
attention to you speak.
And as an introvert, normallyit's hard for us to get you know
(08:34):
into a conversation, right?
You think you put an introvertin a room with a bunch of people
who are already talking, theintrovert is just gonna be
sitting there nodding their headbecause they're not gonna be in
any words in.
But Toastmasters put me in anenvironment where I was able to
speak, had people you knowclapping for me, giving me
feedback, and that reallychanged me.
It took a while for me toovercome that fear, but that
(08:55):
really that process reallychanged me, Tim.
Tim Newman (08:57):
Yeah, so let's put let's kind of put this in in
perspective.
Um, my guess there were 1,500people when you were speaking at
at IMC in the room.
Michael Pope (09:08):
Uh didn't even count it, but yeah.
Tim Newman (09:10):
I there was I saw somebody at the door with a with
a with a clicker there.
Oh but there was a lot, uhthere was a ton of people there.
I mean, it this is not this isnot you know a 25 or 30 person.
This it was huge, it waspacked.
And so you you go from sittingat a table, you know, petrified
to open your mouth aboutanswering a question to giving a
(09:32):
profound, impactful,value-packed presentation for 45
minutes.
That's a lot of growth.
And and that's what one of thethings I I hope my audience
understands.
Just because you you're herenow doesn't mean that's where
you have to stay.
Michael Pope (09:46):
Absolutely.
unknown (09:47):
Right.
Tim Newman (09:49):
So so finding that way, how did you end up at
Toastmasters?
Were you nudged in thatdirection?
Did someone did you have amentor or a coach or somebody
say, Michael, this is what walkme through your journey, how
that how this happened.
Michael Pope (10:01):
Yeah, so this is back in early 2000, like I
mentioned, and I was intopersonal development.
So one of the things, you know,in 51, so I had cassette tapes
at the time, and I was listeningto a cassette tape from Brian
Tracy about it, it was somethingabout how to develop
confidence, or some confidencewas a part of the title of his
program.
And so I was listening to it,and he said, one of the things
(10:22):
that will help you out isjoining Toastmasters.
And I remember hearing aboutToastmasters before, but I never
really looked into it.
But after Brian Tracy saidthat, I went and found a
Toastmasters club, I showed up,and then I I've been a member 20
plus years now.
Tim Newman (10:38):
So so do you still still go to meetings on a weekly
or monthly basis?
Michael Pope (10:43):
Yes, yes.
Yeah, I'm currently active intwo clubs.
I'm also very active in mydistrict as far as doing um
presentations, helping otherspeakers as well.
So very active.
Tim Newman (10:56):
So so let me let me follow up here real quickly.
You help other speakers.
This is something that you knowI try and and and harp on a
lot.
If we want to get better, wecan't just get better for us.
We we have to to pour in otherpeople.
We have to help, you know, it'ssometimes it's like pulling
teeth.
(11:17):
I'm dragging you along.
Come with me because you youknow, you can do this, you can
get better.
You can you know, there's otherpeople out there that that need
that need that help.
And if we're in a position tohelp people, we should be we
should be doing that willinglyfor those that that want to do
the work.
Michael Pope (11:32):
Absolutely.
And you learn.
So I know I I know for mepersonally, I learn more.
If I'm helping someone elseovercome their fear of public
speaking, then it forces me toremember back when I had those
fears and think about theprocesses that I use as I'm as
I'm coaching them through it.
And so it just it's just awin-win scenario.
Tim Newman (11:52):
It really is.
Uh, and I can't.
So I've I've been involved withwith Maxwell Maxwell leadership
team for about six, sevenmonths now, and you you a lot
longer.
Um, the coaches that we haveaccess to, the mentors that we
have access to are number oneare incredible.
I mean, yes, yes.
Um and you know, let's let'sjust talk about Roddy Galbert
(12:13):
for for just a second.
I don't think I've ever metsomebody who is so willing and
accessible.
I mean, you I I could email himtoday, you know, at at let's
just say three o'clock, and ifhe doesn't get back to me today,
I'll have something when I wakeup in the morning with with
with a with a comment orwhatever.
He listens, you know, we cansend him videos and and he good
(12:34):
job, dude.
Yeah, it's it's funny becausemy wife now hears him and and
she's saying saying what what hesays, but you know, before
before I before I get out, it'sa good job, God bless.
Yeah and it but he's he's spoton.
And yes, and if you you know,if you track, at least for me,
if you track video one andyou're working on the same thing
(12:56):
to video five, you can you cansee and hear the progress.
What's something that he'staught you?
Michael Pope (13:04):
Well, so one, I admire the way he breaks down a
speech.
Yeah, right, because when Iwhen I attended my first IMC and
he broke down John's keynotespeech, and as far as these are
the number of stories John told,these are the examples John
did, and and and and here'swhere he put the points in.
So that helped me reallyunderstand how to organize a
keynote effectively.
(13:26):
Because my logical brain wouldjust be teach, teach, teach,
teach, teach.
And Roddy's like, no, you can'tjust teach, teach, teach,
teach, right?
You've got to break it up,you've got to have those stories
in there, some some type ofanalogy where the audience can
connect.
Um, so that's really helped meout.
When I went through stage time,and I've I've participated in
(13:46):
his stage time multiple times.
Like, I people always submitvideos to him before that.
But I remember one particularspeech, I was talking about my
grandfather my grandpa Joe, andI remember the beginning, like
you said, the first speechversus the one I gave on stage,
it was amazing thetransformation.
Like, there's things when Ifirst delivered it, I was like,
(14:07):
Oh, this is great.
There's no changes.
And then Riley was like, No,okay, change this, or you you've
got too many points, and itneeds to be one point for just
three minutes.
And right, this little thingthat I didn't think about
before, right?
He gave me them little smalltweaks along the way, which
which gave me a framework tomake all my other speeches and
stories better.
unknown (14:27):
Yeah.
Tim Newman (14:28):
Let's get back to framework in a second, but I've
got another question.
I've seen you with a a lot ofvideos with Les Brown.
Michael Pope (14:34):
Um, yes.
Tim Newman (14:35):
Tell me about that interaction because that's that
to me is I'd I'd love to spend10 minutes with him too.
Michael Pope (14:42):
You know, Les Brown is uh he's an amazing
human, right?
I I grew up listening to himwhen I was younger because for
me, he was like probably likethe only black speaker on the
stage at that at that at hislevel, and he's still doing it
today, right?
He's still on top, and he's 80years old.
So I've had opportunities, Ihad an opportunity to interview
(15:04):
Les in person.
I had opportunity to speak onthe same stage as Les a couple
times, and he gave me anendorsement video.
So I remember sitting backhaving lunch with Les, and this
asked him, Hey Les, will yourecord a testimonial for me?
He was like, sure.
You know, we grabbed the phone,he did it at one take.
He was like, This I'm talkingabout?
(15:24):
Okay, boom.
And his mind is so sharp.
Like he actually, Tim, he took,he asked me a couple of
questions and then he retold mystory.
A story by means he's like,hello, ladies and gentlemen, I'm
Michael Pope, blah blah blah,right?
And I was sitting there blownaway of how he just took that
little information that I gavehim and put it into a story
(15:45):
format.
He brought in quotes, he's verysharp, probably brought some
like some nice quotes to tie itin together.
Uh absolutely amazing human.
Tim Newman (15:54):
That that's that's awesome.
And you know, when I when Ithink about it, you know,
they're there are special peoplelike that, right?
That the number one, they'rethey're they're incredibly
intelligent, brilliant,brilliant people, brilliant
people.
And to be able to continuedoing those things at 80 because
(16:15):
they're continuing to do thosethings.
Michael Pope (16:17):
Exactly.
Tim Newman (16:18):
They can right, you you you you know what I'm
saying, right?
So they're not okay.
I'm 75, it's time to to to sitback.
Michael Pope (16:25):
No, no, I've got to give consistent.
Tim Newman (16:28):
Be consistent, continue to give back, continue
to provide value to otherpeople.
And that is that's I mean, thatwhen when you look at the older
generations, when they get to acertain age, they stop doing
things, and that's when theirmind starts to go.
That's when when other thingshappen.
But if you continue doing thethings that you love and you're
passionate about that you'regood at and providing value to
people, you can do these thingsfor for a long, long time.
Michael Pope (16:50):
Absolutely.
Like he one of the things hesays, he says, he said, I'm
gonna die with a mic in my hand.
He's like, I'm gonna keepspeaking as long as I can.
And he's he's gone through somemajor health challenges that
would have caused most people tosit back and retire.
You know, but he's he's he'sstill at it.
He was in I think Florida acouple of weeks ago.
(17:10):
I remember seeing pictures onthe internet with uh, I think he
was at Paul Martinelli had anevent and Les Brown spoke part
of that.
I think it was either it waseither in Texas or Florida.
I can't I don't remember now,but that's all it's it it's
amazing.
Tim Newman (17:24):
And you know, when when John Maxwell you know said
you know a couple weeks ago thatdude's 78, right?
And he dude is 78, he's writingthree books.
Come on now.
Michael Pope (17:35):
Exactly.
Tim Newman (17:37):
I struggle.
I I I just finished writingone, and I'm like, oh, but I I
got I gotta take a nap.
Michael Pope (17:42):
Yeah, he's writing three books, he's he's speaking
all around the world, right?
He he's still going to allthese different countries doing
his transform.
Like they just got back fromArgentina doing a transformation
trip.
And yeah, but he's he's livingwith purpose.
Tim Newman (17:54):
Right.
And and that's the thing.
That's at least for me, youknow.
I tell people I've I've beenlooking for this for a long
time, right?
And you know, the that that youknow uh found the people, and
it it's it's something that hasreinvigorated me and more gotten
me more passion back into doingwhat I do.
Um and it's it it's amazing.
(18:17):
And just how much I've learnedin six months, how much better
I've gotten in in six months.
You know, and I've never toldanybody this publicly.
My wife and I have talked aboutit.
I want to do what Roddy does,right?
I don't necessarily want to beyou know the the Johns or the
(18:38):
Lesses, right?
Yeah, I want to be Roddy.
I want to be the guy that thathelps other people become John
and Les.
Michael Pope (18:47):
That's awesome.
I'm sure that's greatfulfillment for Roddy, right?
Just seeing all these otheramazing speakers go out and and
because he's seen us likestruggle, like he he saw Chris
Robinson struggle, and then hesees Chris on you know big
stages all around rural.
Yeah.
So yeah.
Yeah.
Tim Newman (19:05):
And so I'm actually gonna see both Chris and Roddy
here in a couple weeks.
Michael Pope (19:10):
Oh, congratulations.
Tim Newman (19:12):
And I'm gonna tell I'm I'm gonna tell Roddy that.
I'm gonna say that that'sthat's what I'm that's what I
want to do, that's what I'mworking towards.
That's that's the the thedirection that that that I want
to head.
Because I I think you know, I Iend each podcast with your your
voice has a power to change theworld.
Um but you have to be able touse it.
And you have to know you haveto know how to use it.
(19:33):
You have to to to be able toformulate the the thoughts and
the feelings and the ideas sothat people can actually
understand what you're thepoints that you're that you're
trying to make.
And that leads me to theframework.
Let's get back to it.
Yes.
I I and I think frameworks forfor most people are are really
(19:59):
what they need.
They we don't need abstractideas.
We we need easy to to use, easyto understand pathways.
And and that's I I've beenusing frameworks for for for
pretty much everything.
If I find and if I findsomething that works, that's
what I do.
It's that's it becomes a go-to,it becomes habit.
So so talk to me about you knowso the uh uh some of the
(20:21):
frameworks that that you'vebuilt.
Michael Pope (20:22):
Absolutely, right?
So James Clear says you don'trise to the level of your goals,
you fall to the level of yoursystems.
And so systems in our case isframework, right?
That's all it is, a repeatableprocess.
And for me, one of my biggestframeworks that I use in almost
every area of my life is my doerframework.
And I wrote a book on it, DoersWin the Day here.
(20:44):
So it's an acrostic.
My framework, D-O-E-R, is theacrostic.
And when it comes to speaking,I use the same thing.
So D and for speaking in Doerwould be discipline.
And I learned from my mentors,Tim, that I have to have to
discipline myself to study othergreat communicators, right?
She told me to study otherspeakers, she gave me books,
(21:06):
CDs, VHS tapes back in the dayof these amazing speakers, and I
continue to study speakers,which is why I'm constantly
connecting with other speakersand learning from them, not
trying to copy them, butlearning from them.
How do they connect with theiraudience?
How do they tell stories?
All of that.
Right.
So that's part of theframework, the D discipline.
(21:27):
The O is typically for eitherone thing or when it comes to
speaking, it was theopportunity.
So my mentor, one of my firstspeaking mentor, she told me,
she said, Michael, takeadvantage of every opportunity
to speak.
And Tim, she knew that I wasintroverted and that I wouldn't
speak up in meetings.
She said, When you go to ameeting, ask a question, add
(21:49):
value in that meeting.
When you come to a if you cometo a Toastmasters Club and
there's no speeches that day,she says, I want you to get up
and give a speech.
And she constantly stretchedme, hey, there's an opportunity
to speak over here.
Go say yes, go speak.
Even if you don't feel ready,go speak, right?
So that was that's part of myframework is taking advantage of
(22:09):
every opportunity to speak.
The E in the doer acrostic iseliminate excuses.
I learned from another one ofmy mentors about how excuse
light is a failure disease, andI learned to start eliminating
any excuses that were holding mefrom doing something.
So if I'm feeling nervous aboutspeaking somewhere and the
(22:30):
topic is in alignment with me,then I just I go ahead and do
it, right?
I break free from that, even ifI'm a little nervous, it's a
bigger stage.
And I I've been places before.
I mentioned earlier aboutspeaking on the same stage as
Les Brown.
So I actually spoke rightbefore Les Brown.
Tim Newman (22:46):
Oh my.
Michael Pope (22:47):
And he he called back to my something I said in
my speech, which was prettycool.
But you think about like beingon the same stage of him in
imposter syndrome sitting insetting in, like, do you even
deserve to be here?
Right?
You you deal with that littletype of things, but eliminating
excuses.
So I had to break free fromthose excuses, those that
hesitation that's holding meback, and do it anyway.
(23:08):
Right.
And then R for me is all aboutresponsibility.
So it's personal responsibilityfor the two things that I have
complete control over.
One is my attitude, and theother is my actions.
That's it.
So I'm in control with the wayI think, my attitude about it
can either be a positiveattitude, and I use affirmations
to help me with that.
But my part of my framework isgetting myself in the right
(23:30):
frame of mind.
So before I go speak, I'mletting myself, hey, Michael,
you are amazing.
Today you're gonna do great.
Your audience loves you, theywant to see you succeed.
You're gonna add so much valueto them.
So I'm constantly tellingmyself things like that to
change my attitude, and then myactions is just me doing what I
can control.
So that means preparing for myspeech, make sure that I know my
content.
(23:50):
That way, when I get on stage,I'm not thinking in my head
about what am I gonna say?
I already know that.
Like that's already taken careof.
Instead, I can focus on theaudience, making eye contact
with people, sending them loveand and asking them questions
and feeling completely confidentknowing that I'm fully prepared
for this presentation.
(24:11):
So that's kind of how I use mydoer framework.
Tim Newman (24:14):
Yeah, let's go back to to excuses for just a second.
Michael Pope (24:18):
Yeah.
Tim Newman (24:20):
With imposter syndrome, you know, for we all
have we everybody has it.
Yeah, absolutely.
Everybody has it.
It depends on when it shows up,how it shows up, and how we
deal with it, right?
So when it comes to speakingfor you, where does that come
from?
How how how did that happen?
Is it just because you knowyou're that that that that
introverted person or is theresomething else?
(24:42):
Or how did that because uhbefore and again before you
answer, I read in your bookabout your grandfather's funeral
and it tore me up.
Dude, I was crying over it.
And so is so tell me how theimposter syndrome happened, and
did it happen because of that orbefore before that?
Michael Pope (25:04):
I say it happened before that.
So I grew up as an only child,and being introverted, I was
always slow to speak whensomeone would ask a question.
So what would happen is I wouldbe around other people, and
then someone else would speakfor me.
They would say, Oh, yeah,Michael doesn't like that, or
yeah, yeah, Michael doesn't wantto do that.
He wants to come over here withus.
(25:24):
And and I got used to havingother people speak for me.
Okay, and it made it to thepoint where I was like, Well, no
one wants to hear my words,right?
So then I would just tell thosestories you tell yourself.
Tim Newman (25:36):
Right.
Michael Pope (25:37):
And so that's kind of how I was.
And then going back to mygrandpa, my grandpa Joe's
funeral, sitting on that row,wanting to share with my his
family, friends, loved ones thatwere there to, you know, for
his funeral, wanting to sharehow wonderful Grandpa Joe was
for me, how the type of impacthe had made on me.
But I was still consumed withthe stories of, oh, what if I
(26:01):
mess up?
What if they don't like me?
Like all those differentwhat-ifs that I was telling
myself.
No one else told me that.
It was just things that I thatI thought.
Tim Newman (26:10):
Right.
And you and and and yourgrandfather had had a special
relationship.
Yeah, so and so moving forward,did that um I know eventually
you decided to to to take steps,but moving forward initially,
did did that make it worse, orwere you uh how how did that
(26:32):
change you?
How how did that evolve?
Michael Pope (26:34):
It made it better because it's uh because I've had
the opportunity to talk aboutmy grandpa Jill on so many
different platforms.
And I'm able to look back andsee, okay, even though I didn't
speak up that day, I'm speakingup now.
And I can still I still learnso much from my grandfather.
I mean, I still keep so I talkin the story about how he won
(26:56):
the Thomas Jefferson's ServantLeadership Award.
I still keep that on my desk asa reminder for for me of just
the type of man he was.
Right.
Um, and it's yeah, so it justit's just it constantly reminds
me of this, of creating theproper legacy, the type of leg
legacy that I want to be able toleave, where when I'm gone,
people can say, Oh yeah, Michaeladded so much value to me by
(27:19):
doing this, or the way heserved, or the way he did this
type of thing.
Um and so it just fuels me.
Tim Newman (27:26):
And and that gets back to where you are today
doesn't mean that's where youhave have to stay.
Again, exactly.
I mean, and you know, you'reyou're gonna be better tomorrow
than you are today becauseyou're gonna continue to work,
just like which when I when Ifound out you know, six months
(27:47):
ago that John Maxwell had aspeaking coach, I said, well, if
John Maxwell has a speakingcoach, how come everybody
doesn't have a speaking coach?
Um if he's still at 70 someyears old, still getting better,
why why is it that you know I'mnot getting better?
Why is it that I'm not doingthe things I need to do to get
better?
And that that was a wake-upcall.
Yeah, I didn't know that,right?
And so ever everybody can getbetter, but you have to do the
(28:10):
work.
That's that's the other youcan't just wish to get better,
you have to actually do thething, whatever.
Michael Pope (28:16):
I know I've paid thousands of dollars for
speaking coach, like outside,even outside of the Maxwell
team, even though I have accessto people like Roddy and other
people in the Maxwell team, I'vestill hired other coaches.
I mean, I'm I'm a part ofmultiple speaking programs where
I'm learning from other people.
So one is NSA Ohio, NationalSpeakers Association, I'm a part
of that organization, learningfrom those people.
(28:37):
But I've also hired coaches, soon people to coach me
one-on-one as well.
Tim Newman (28:42):
Yeah, that that that that's just because you've
decided to get better at yourcraft.
Michael Pope (28:47):
Yeah, that's that's what everybody, I mean, I
and and I'll say also, so I'vedecided to get better, which is
I think everybody wants to getbetter, but also I realize that
I only have so much time left onthis earth.
So it's like I can eitherstretch it out long and try to
learn it myself, or I can getcoaching to help me go further
(29:10):
faster.
Yes.
Tim Newman (29:11):
And that and that's that's the real key, right?
Michael Pope (29:13):
Yeah.
Tim Newman (29:14):
Because the the the better you get the the better
you get the quickest, the morevalue you can provide to other
people.
Absolutely.
And that's the that's the youknow that that's that's kind of
the the whole point of it, I I II would think.
You know.
Um and again, I gotta I gottabe honest, the excuses, I just
(29:36):
when we started this, I gaveexcuses why why I didn't reach
out to the other person.
Why I why I haven't asked,right?
That's you gotta takeresponsibility for that.
And and again, that's one thingthat I that I for for my
listeners to hear that that it'snot that I'm perfect either,
because I'm no different thanthey are.
So have the still have the samethought processes.
(29:57):
It's just taking steps to
Michael Pope (30:00):
get better at taking steps to to do whatever
the thing is re recognize it andthen taking new steps don't
don't just recognize and have aframework or you know a process
in place to help you with thatwhenever you whenever that
hesitation that fear shows upyou've got to have a process in
place absolutely um what whatwhat has been your your your big
(30:25):
biggest I wouldn't say fail uhbut your biggest embarrassment
at one stage and how did youdeal with it embarrassment I'm
not even I don't have any bigembarrassments that come to mind
but I'll tell you about I'lltell you about an opportunity
I'll tell you about one exampleof something that years ago
(30:48):
would have been I would haveconsidered an embarrassment.
So my wife and I actually flewto Jamaica I had an opportunity
to speak in Jamaica last year atsomeone's um live the lead
event and you know I showed upearly prepared asked to do a
tech check but they they didn'twant to do that like that and
they were like oh we got it wegot it right the the the host
(31:11):
introduces me to go speak I wasthe first in-person speaker so I
go up on stage get ready tospeak and I see the person over
at the the desk trying to unlockum the computer to just show my
slides so they had to wait forthe host to come over and unlock
the computer they get theslides up well they're trying to
get the slides up but it won'twork so about 20 minutes into a
(31:36):
I guess a 40 minute presentationthey finally got the slides
working.
Years ago Tim that would haveI'd have been floored because
I'd have been like what am Igonna say everything is on the
slides right but thankfully Iknew my content I knew my story
so I was able to go throughwithout my slides and then once
(31:57):
they got it working I was ableto quickly calmly you know click
advance to it and then showthem some of the things that I
had mentioned just from stage.
Right but the audience didn'treally know even though like
they knew they were working onthe technically everybody could
see that in the room but theythey were like oh wow we didn't
you didn't even really need yourslides I mean you you were just
so comfortable and all that butthat just takes preparation
(32:21):
right it you know it's it'spreparation practice and and you
know we when I was teaching andI would I would ask the
students what their process isin preparing for a a five minute
presentation or whatever youknow doesn't really matter they
would tell me the first thingthey they would do is open up
(32:41):
PowerPoint.
Tim Newman (32:42):
I said no that's that's not that's probably the
last thing that you should do.
Exactly because you might notneed it well John doesn't use
PowerPoint he doesn't use slidesreally I mean he he has his his
his iPad there and he just he'smost of us wish he used
PowerPoint so we can so we canwrite down all the books and
take a piss exactly exactly andyou know but we've some I mean
(33:10):
even as adults we we we are soum I don't know tied into the
into the visual like like that'sgonna make or break everything
and the reality is that doesn'thave anything to do with it.
What makes or breaks it is youthe speaker are you do you are
you providing value to theaudience do you know who the
your audience is have you haveyou done the work have you done
(33:31):
the preparation have you donethe practice have you done the
things that you need to do toprovide that value to the
audience yeah so so what what'syour process you let's let's say
somebody calls you tomorrow youknow to to book to book you for
a speaking engagement in threemonths what's your process to go
(33:52):
from tomorrow to walking offthe stage yeah so the first
thing I want to know is what isa what does success actually
look like at the end of the dayfor this audience right so
typically if a company is isbringing me in to speak they
have a goal in mind of of whatthey want the audience to do and
if they don't I I'm gonna askthem questions to try to get to
(34:14):
a goal that way we got somethingto measure against right so if
their goal is that you know theywant people just to be inspired
or and take more action then weknow we have a goal in mind.
unknown (34:24):
Right?
Michael Pope (34:24):
So begin with the end in mind and then I can work
better to figure out okay whatframework is going to really
help me give them that goal andso I'll outline some type of
framework and and typically whenI whenever I'm speaking I
organize my content in aframework because I'm if I'm
giving a 45 minute keynote Ihave it in a nice framework then
that way if I need to cut itbecause of time I can take out
(34:47):
part of the framework and itstill flows fine.
So I go through that processand then obviously I'm gonna I'm
gonna practice the store I'mgonna find like okay what
stories can help me connectthese points and really make it
more relatable to the audienceand all that.
So I'll I'll go through thatwhole part of putting the
content together and practicingit.
And I'll practice my stories ifI'm doing anything new like I
(35:10):
may take it to a Toastmastersclub and practice part of the
presentation I've done it acouple times.
And then my goal Tim is is tohave the content down prior to
going to the event.
And then that way when I'm atthe event especially if it's in
person I like to go in and andeven on the introvert like I
like to go meet people and justconnect with the audience a
(35:34):
little bit beforehand.
Right.
Because I'm not thinking aboutmy content I want to think about
you know you and your needs whyyou you know what brings you
here to this event where youlook what are you hoping to gain
today type of thing.
Because then once I know that Ican get on stage and as part of
my process actually before Ieven get on stage if I'm if I'm
coming up like up on a stagebehind a curtain I'll look out
(35:56):
at the audience one of mymentors taught me this is look
at as many people as possibleand just send them loving
thoughts thinking like hey Ilove you I'm gonna add value to
you today.
I love you I'm gonna add valueto you today.
Right?
So I'm just I'm thinking aboutthe audience and then when I get
out there of course deliver thecontent as as rehearsed however
still be flexible enough whereif I need to engage with the
(36:18):
audience or if I need to likeask someone a direct question or
something right I can I canstill mold that into my
presentation so it's so it feelsnatural.
And then my process when Ifinish so part of my refreshing
moment is stopping to celebrateright so you know you get the
applause but when I'm walkingoff stage you know I'll in my
(36:39):
mind I'm thinking Michael youdid an amazing job right I'm I'm
I'm praising myself before I goout and talk to the audience.
Right.
Tim Newman (36:47):
That and I I think that that piece right there is
is really important because itit shifts your your mindset from
presenter mindset to to to toto now just back being wow it's
it's really good now I can goand be myself interact with
people you know for how forhowever long it is um and and
(37:08):
and again I it I think a lot ofthings that we do that we don't
really think about from from adifferent perspective is all
mindset.
It's it's it's where are wewhat what mindset should we be
in to do this and what mindsetdo we need to switch into to go
10 feet from here what whateverthat is because it's you can't
be in speaker mode when you'reinteracting with people.
Michael Pope (37:32):
Maybe think about your flash or I didn't say this
or you know right right becausethen you that then there's gonna
be that disconnect he he's notthat he's not that personable
person that he looked like up upup on stage right it it's it's
it's very different and and thenyou have that disconnect which
is and I used to be like thatI'll be honest with right so I
used to be like that wheresomeone would say like to Tim
(37:54):
and you said hey Michael you dida great job I was like oh no
but I forgot to say this or Ireally wanted to tell the story
like this or this example rightbut so I'm thinking all about me
versus you know accepting youknow praising you know thanking
you for for thinking that I dida great job right exactly
instead of me and and and thenthey know that it wasn't about
(38:16):
them with just in the in thathalf a second they already know
that that it you think it wasmore about you than exactly them
and yeah and you've lost you'velost all the credibility that
you that you had built up.
Yeah and I made them feel badbecause they like I went I went
up and praised this person nowhe's telling me how you know
that it wasn't good right sosome some I'm questioning your
(38:37):
judgment exactly you know butit's I I love that you you you
talk about the having thatframework and that and that
preparation because these thingsdon't just happen yeah you know
you don't just get up on stageand wing it you don't just go to
a meeting and wing it you don'tyou don't go to an interview
and wing it you you have to tobe successful at anything it
(39:01):
does I don't care what it is yesyou have to prepare.
Yeah I talked about that a lotin the 16 16 undeniable laws of
communication about that theimportance of the the practicing
and not winging it even if youthink even if you've done it a
million and one times right youstill practice it and and I I
(39:21):
keep bringing this back to Johnyou know I I listened to
something very recently and itand it comes up a lot.
Tim Newman (39:27):
You know so somebody asked him the question what
he's thinking about before heright before he goes on stage
and he said he's thinking abouthow he can add value to the
audience.
He's not thinking about oh do Ineed to tell this story or that
story.
He he how is he going to addvalue?
It changes you it does.
And and if you I think if youjust change your mindset just a
(39:54):
little bit and you know do thethings that that are going to
make you successful and startthinking about how you know the
the gifts that you have that canhelp other people pour pour
into other people add value toother people for what for
whatever it is right it doesn'treally matter what what it is
because we all we all havedifferent skill sets we all have
(40:16):
different interests but if wecan help people get from where
they are from point A to point Bwherever it is they want to go
that's really what what this isabout.
And uh you have at least atleast I think you have to be
willing to do the work to beable to do that.
Because you can want to helpthem and you can be selfish
about it and say well you justdo it like this that doesn't it
(40:38):
doesn't really help anybody.
You've got to help them the waythey want to be helped.
Michael Pope (40:42):
Yeah absolutely and you're right you got to do
the work too right and and thatwork happens when you're not
getting applause when whenyou're not on stage in front of
people right you you're in aroom by yourself and you're
practicing your content eitherit's out loud or you're
practicing in your head butyou're still going doing the
work so that when you do show upon stage everyone knows you did
the work.
Because it's gonna seemnatural.
Tim Newman (41:04):
Yeah and that it it it's critical and I I think that
you know I talk talk a lotabout knowing your audience and
what they want what they youknow why are they there you know
how how can how can you pourinto them how how can you give
them the value um that that tome is before anything else you
know what's you you you you saidit what's the outcome what what
what do you want what what doessuccess look like but you you
(41:28):
have to know that before youeven start opening up
PowerPoint.
Yeah right you know that's likepretty pictures and you know
exactly exactly I was I'm I'mactually taking a class right
now um about uh uh teaching onZoom speaking on Zoom oh yeah
(41:48):
okay um and I've been doing itfor for years but again you know
you you want to get better youknow you know where are the new
techniques and you know we werediscussing last night I've got
to do a a different kind ofpresentation I've never done
before in at a conference herein in January it's it's only
five minutes okay it's andthat's I could I say I can do it
(42:09):
my sleep but I already knowwhat I want to talk about but I
haven't scripted it out yet.
Michael Pope (42:14):
It's hard I tell you it's harder to do a five
minute talk than it is to do a45 minute talk.
Tim Newman (42:18):
It is it is and that and I and I gotta thank Roddy
for that too because you knowwith these with these three
minute ones Exactly that'sreally that's a lot harder.
But it's a it's a what theycall a pecha kucha whatever type
of yeah I'm familiar with thatyeah so and now I have to worry
about slides because you get oneslide every 15 seconds.
One slide every minute orwhatever yeah it does it's every
(42:39):
15 seconds yeah so you know forme that's that's a I because I
would never even think about theslides.
Michael Pope (42:46):
That's like the last I'm I'm thinking about okay
this is what I want to talkabout but now I've got to think
about okay really what I want totalk about and how I'm going to
incorporate that into a slidein 15 seconds or or how that
that's gonna be challenging butit's it's I think it's gonna be
fun it is it it it really is uhbut if I would never suggest
(43:06):
that to somebody who's given apresentation for the very first
time but what would you suggestfor for somebody who who for the
for uh who lacks confidence forthe very first time has to give
a presentation what would beyour your keys to success or or
or steps to success for themyeah I would say record yourself
(43:27):
so do it to yourself right sopick up your that's the beauty
of the our cell phones rightgrab your cell phone set prop it
up and record yourselfdelivering it and then go back
and watch it but watch it with anon-judging eye and just look
at yourself and see how yousound i i you know I did a um so
(43:51):
my my oldest son is in a mediaclass where he's working on a
podcast and so we recorded hisfirst podcast episode uh on
Sunday and we're you know we didthe intro we played it back he
was like do I really sound likethat like yes that's how you
sound right I had explained tohim different things inner ear
and out of here right but but alot of times a a very a brand
(44:12):
new person has never really seenthemselves speaking on video
and you got to get used toseeing it so that way you can
give yourself proper feedbackand make improvements.
Tim Newman (44:22):
Yes and and it's uh seeing yourself and listening to
yourself is is is weird and yougot you you have to get over
that quick that that's thethat's a you you can't harp on
that just just get over it andand uh and move on.
But let's talk about your yourbook Doers Win the Day.
Yes because I I I'll be honestwith you I I I enjoyed that book
(44:44):
after I got done crying umthank you it was it was tough
because I've been there rightmay maybe not in that exact uh
way that you were but but youknow knowing that you should
have spoken up and saidsomething and you didn't and you
let that time you let it go andunderstand once you let it go
(45:04):
once that time passes there's nogetting it back.
You don't get it back.
You don't get it back.
Um but I I I I love the book Ilove the whole idea of the book
and and and it you know to to methe the title says it all yes
so what was the what was theprocess there for you how how
(45:27):
did the book come about what wasit that that you know you you
you're you're you're doing thisframework and you're doing
you're doing it you're doing andyou said and you said well this
is what works for me I shouldshare it or was it you know what
I I've got I've got to figureout how how I'm going to to do
or be or whatever and came upwith this and did the book.
How was the process?
Michael Pope (45:48):
Yeah so I was asked to give a 45 minute
keynote back in 2022 this is ona large stage and when I was
putting my content together Iorganized it using duer and I
was like oh that that worksperfect and so I put that
together and I gave that talkand then I started being asked
(46:10):
to give other presentations so Iwould take that DUR framework
and I gave it over and over andover and then finally I was like
man I really need to make turnthis into a book because I did a
I did a five minute speech forNSA Ohio as part of a a our
graduation type program that wedid and that was on be a doer
(46:34):
and I was like man if I had mybook it would have tied in so
well with that right so it'slike those missed opportunities
I'm like man I I'm giving thisspeech it'd be better for me to
have a book to go along with itand I had a mentor that told me
the same thing and said you wantto have a book based on your
keynote speech and I was likeokay yeah I'm gonna do that.
So then it was really easy forme to develop it.
(46:55):
So once I made a decision todeal with it I put it together
in less than a month.
Tim Newman (47:01):
Yeah I I I just kind of did I I literally am
finishing up doing the exactsame thing.
Um yeah I I wrote a book about12 years ago and I said never do
it again and then I was on acall now but I I was on a call
(47:21):
uh uh with with with Mark Coleand he said something that that
just it triggered me it was likethat's it and it just happened
uh you know and and th those arethose are good things it was it
was a it was a good trigger youknow that's that that's that to
me that was that was it waslike a key but but with with
(47:44):
doers from the day one onechapter that again really
resonated with me was the ideaof celebrating small wins yes
because I I think I think somuch and and this def is
definitely for me I don'tcelebrate small wins that's
that's not that's not whatwinners do winners we it's not
over till it's over we that'sjust a step in the process we're
(48:05):
not gonna celebrate nothinguntil it's over and that was my
mindset for the longest time umso talk about the whole idea of
celebrating small wins and whythat's so important to our
successes.
Michael Pope (48:16):
Yeah it is it's so important because if you wait
till you win the Super Bowl tocelebrate right if you don't
celebrate that first win whenyou know you you're playing
against this team that's justokay right if you don't
celebrate that win you're nevergoing to make it to the Super
Bowl to celebrate the big win.
Right.
So that's why it's so importantto celebrate every day.
(48:37):
And so one of my son you know Imentioned before I have three
sons my my 17 year old he'sstill learning how to drive and
so him and I would we'll go outon a regular basis teach him how
to drive but I always make surethat we after we're done before
we talk about areas ofimprovement and all that we stop
to to recognize what he didwell so we can have something to
(48:59):
celebrate.
Just to reinforce that yes Idid this type of thing um and we
need that in our lives becausea lot of people Tim they'll wait
till you know December 31st andthey're like and they look back
on the year and they're likeokay I didn't I didn't hit this
goal I didn't hit that goalright there they're focused on
(49:20):
what they didn't do versus ifevery single day if they
celebrate hey I I won the daytoday by doing this I won the
day of day by doing this then atthe end of the year you've got
so many different wins you'regonna feel like you're gonna
really see your six your yourgrowth because most of us don't
see our growth but once you'veif you celebrate it every single
day you know you've grown rightand and it and it builds up
(49:44):
momentum right it builds thatmomentum just like if you have
that negative self-talk thatbuilds that momentum too it's
exactly it slows you down yousay okay why even try right yeah
you'll do that right you knowyou you you don't do something
on Monday and you say well okayI'm I'm just gonna take the week
off I'll start again next nextweek that's just guess what that
that turns in I'll start nextmonth which that's well next
(50:08):
year July it's July I'll justI'll just start next year you
know and and and that's thatthat's what happens though right
I mean you because you're gonnahave bad days I mean that's
you're there's gonna be dayswhen you don't get things
accomplished but you have to beable to look back and say okay
well I did get this accomplishedI did I did do I did do this or
I did do that.
Tim Newman (50:26):
And it it's it's about that momentum that builds
consistency that that that thatthat builds that um desire to to
to continue uh doing it it'sit's just so important and I
think we need I think a lot ofpeople need to change mindset.
Michael Pope (50:39):
Yeah right so even something like this like I you
know I'm gonna I'm gonna applaudmyself for having a successful
podcast interview because therewas a time in my life when I
wouldn't have been able to dothis.
Yeah absolutely you knowwithout being nervous and and
feeling like I had to be perfectwith every word and yes nobody
wants perfect anyway.
Tim Newman (51:00):
Exactly right nobody wants nobody wants perfect.
Michael Pope (51:02):
So well Michael thank you so much for for
spending some time with us againthank you enough where can
people connect with you and andfind out what you're doing yes a
couple places one you can getthe book Doers Win the Day you
can go to doerswinthhey dot comyou can also find it on Amazon
and you can also connect with meat michaelpoptraining com.
Tim Newman (51:23):
Awesome again thank you so much take care and and uh
look forward to catching upwith you real soon.
Thank you be sure to visitspeakwithconfidence podcast dot
com to get your free ebook top21 challenges to public speakers
and help over the community youcan also register for the forum
public speaking always rememberyour voice is a power changing
Welcome back to Speaking with Confidence, a
podcast that helps you build thesoft skills that lead to real
results.
Communication, storytelling,public speaking, and showing up
with confidence in everyconversation that counts.
I'm Tim Newman, a recoveringcollege professor turned
communication coach, and I'mthrilled to guide you on your
journey to becoming a powerfulcommunicator.
Today's guest is Michael Pope.
(00:31):
Michael has 20 plus years in ITand leadership development and
has transformed softwaredevelopers into people
developers.
He is an international keynotespeaker and leadership coach,
known as the hesitation breakerand the author of Doers Win the
Day.
He speaks to high achievers,corporate professionals, and
coaches leaders on productivity,leadership, and overcoming
(00:52):
hesitation.
Michael, welcome to speakingwith confidence.
You know, we we connected uhyou know on a Zoom call, you
know, a couple months ago, butin person in August.
And we'll come back to that.
But before we get started, Iwant to bring up something that
really kind of you did thatreally kind of resonated with
me.
I saw a post that you did onLinkedIn oh a few weeks ago
(01:17):
where where you said you wentand went witnessed your your
sons um uh get black belt andkarate.
Yes.
And one of the things that whatresonates with me is people
that actually talk about theirfamilies and their stories and
in their in their posts, becausefor for me, that's what I do.
But my stories are about me andmy kids, my family, whatever it
(01:38):
is.
And to me that that's thatshows a a different kind of
person and what family actuallymeans to them.
Michael Pope (01:46):
Absolutely.
Yeah, it means a whole lot tome for sure.
My wife and I have three sons,and they're all in um karate.
Three black belts.
So yeah.
Tim Newman (01:55):
Dude, that's awesome.
Uh you don't have to worryabout you know protecting your
house.
I mean, it's all everything'sall taken care of.
You know, but it's it it's tome, it it's important and shows
what what is what other peopleare important, what what what is
important to other people,let's just put it that way.
And and that's kind of how weum or or how I look at it, you
(02:16):
know, it's it's it's it's aboutthat.
But you know, we could like Isaid we connected at uh
International Maxwell Confconference in uh August.
Yeah and you and you were onstage and we can we connected
after that.
And when when people go onstage, you know, I I maybe I
look at things differently.
You know, I remember what youtalked about.
(02:38):
You talked about the the valueframework um in and and and
teaching people how to use uhyou know go high level and that
type of thing.
So you know, I'm sure a lot ofpeople come come off and say,
Michael, you did a great job.
Um, but what but what did youlearn?
But you're an introvert like Iam.
How do you react and how do youhandle as soon as you get off
stage and people are are bumrushing you, they want to talk
(03:00):
to you when they congratulategood pictures and that and that
that type of thing.
Michael Pope (03:04):
Yeah, great question, Tim.
Um, as an introvert, and youand you know how introverts are,
right?
Normally we want to be alone,especially after giving of
ourselves.
A lot of times we want to goback and and just recharge.
What I've learned is as aspeaker, I owe it to my audience
to be present, right?
So if people want to come upand take pictures, they want to
(03:24):
come up and ask questions, I oweit to them to be present.
So what I do is I've learnedhow to quickly within seconds
just refresh my mind and andchange my state to a state of
giving.
unknown (03:40):
Right.
Michael Pope (03:40):
And I'm looking at okay, how can I add value to
this person?
Even if I'm tired, I can stillpush through it and open up and
connect with them.
And it it takes me out of mycomfort zone as an introvert,
however, uh I owe it to theaudience.
Tim Newman (03:57):
Well, and you know that that's really does say say
a lot.
And again, let's look at itfrom from the introvert's
perspective, because I'm I'malso a raging introvert.
And you know, when you when youcome off the stage, and so I I
look at it like this.
When I go to a networking eventand I teach people, you know,
go in with purpose.
Yes.
(04:17):
When you go to a conference, goin with purpose.
Don't just, you know, becauseif you don't, you're gonna be
overwhelmed and you won't getanything accomplished.
And so, like when I went toIMC, that was first my first
time at IMC, one number one, Ihad no idea what to expect.
But there were a number ofpeople that I wanted to connect
with.
I they they were on my list,right?
I want to connect with thisperson, I want to talk to them,
(04:38):
I want to learn about this, andthis that's such a smart
technique that go into anetworking event, right?
Michael Pope (04:42):
You gotta you'll be kind of all there and teach
that because going in withpurpose with a list, that's
that's so smart.
Tim Newman (04:50):
Right.
And when you go in with thatlist, don't just go in, hi, I'm
I'm Tim.
Bring value, right?
You because you because you'reyou're looking, you want to add
value.
If you want to get value back,you have to add value.
You know, so you should knowwho these people are or know
something about them so that younumber one, there's a
conversation starter, thatthere's something in common that
you all can can build on orwhatever.
Um that that's the other thingthat that's really important.
(05:13):
But there were like there werefive key people that were on my
list, and and you were one ofthem.
And I'm so glad that we did geta chance to connect.
And we know we talked about youknow, another person that was
on the list that I didn't get,that that I'm gonna have to get
outside of my comfort zone ifI'm ever really gonna get be
able to connect with thatperson.
Because high-profile person,always surrounded by people,
(05:36):
always trying people, you know,other people are trying to uh
take that time.
So as an introvert, we have tofigure those things out.
unknown (05:44):
Yeah.
Michael Pope (05:44):
I say you I say you need to invite her to your
show.
Tim Newman (05:47):
I you know what?
I here's here comes the truth.
Here comes the truth.
Because we gotta be honest,right?
I've almost done it five times.
I've almost done it five times,so I haven't done it yet.
It's it's it's like it's thatthat imposter syndrome.
Why why would she want to comeon my show?
Michael Pope (06:07):
Been there, been there, yeah.
Tim Newman (06:08):
And you know, part of it, and honestly, what one of
the things I've been doing iswhat's what's my value
proposition to her to get her toto spend an hour and a half
with me and my audience?
That's what I have to figureout, right?
Because I'm sure you know I'msure she gets requests every
(06:30):
day.
And she's just you know, one ofthe things that you learn is
you have to figure out how tospend your time and who you're
gonna spend your time with.
So, what kind of value can Ibring for her to be able to come
on the show?
And you know, um, I'd like tobrag, you know, we got a pretty
good sized audience here.
You know, we're you know, we'rewe're pr ranked pretty high in
you know uh worldwide, but whatkind of value can we bring?
(06:53):
And because I know she'll bringvalue, period.
I mean, every every time I'veheard her speak, she brings
value.
Yes, that's the other thing.
So get outside your comfortzone, do th do the hard thing.
As as Ryan Leak would say, doit scared.
Michael Pope (07:06):
Uh yeah, absolutely do it scared.
Be willing to fail, right?
Tim Newman (07:08):
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
So one here we we've talked anumber of times about there are
so many IT professionals in thisspace because for you know, for
whatever reason, they'rethey're they're trained, they're
highly technical, they don'tnecessarily have to deal with
people, but to progressanywhere, you have to learn how
(07:29):
to communicate.
Michael Pope (07:31):
That was me growing up, yeah.
For sure.
Even when I started my when Ifirst started my career, Tim, I
remember I would sit at thetable and they would say, Hey,
we've got this problem.
Anyone have any ideas?
And I'm a natural problemsolver, so I would solve the
problem in my head, but Iwouldn't raise my hand because I
was like, Oh, somebody elsealready have that, or I figured
(07:52):
it out too soon.
Like I would I would doubtmyself.
Right.
And then someone else wouldanswer the same thing I was
thinking about, and then I feltreally bad because I was like, I
knew the answer.
I knew I had to write, and Ididn't speak up.
Tim Newman (08:05):
And so, how did you get over that?
Michael Pope (08:08):
For me, it was personal development, right?
I started reading personaldevelopment books, and then I
ended up joining Toastmasters in2003, and that started the
process of me learning how toeffectively use my voice.
And Toastmasters gave me anaudience of people who would pay
attention to you speak.
And as an introvert, normallyit's hard for us to get you know
(08:34):
into a conversation, right?
You think you put an introvertin a room with a bunch of people
who are already talking, theintrovert is just gonna be
sitting there nodding their headbecause they're not gonna be in
any words in.
But Toastmasters put me in anenvironment where I was able to
speak, had people you knowclapping for me, giving me
feedback, and that reallychanged me.
It took a while for me toovercome that fear, but that
(08:55):
really that process reallychanged me, Tim.
Tim Newman (08:57):
Yeah, so let's put let's kind of put this in in
perspective.
Um, my guess there were 1,500people when you were speaking at
at IMC in the room.
Michael Pope (09:08):
Uh didn't even count it, but yeah.
Tim Newman (09:10):
I there was I saw somebody at the door with a with
a with a clicker there.
Oh but there was a lot, uhthere was a ton of people there.
I mean, it this is not this isnot you know a 25 or 30 person.
This it was huge, it waspacked.
And so you you go from sittingat a table, you know, petrified
to open your mouth aboutanswering a question to giving a
(09:32):
profound, impactful,value-packed presentation for 45
minutes.
That's a lot of growth.
And and that's what one of thethings I I hope my audience
understands.
Just because you you're herenow doesn't mean that's where
you have to stay.
Michael Pope (09:46):
Absolutely.
unknown (09:47):
Right.
Tim Newman (09:49):
So so finding that way, how did you end up at
Toastmasters?
Were you nudged in thatdirection?
Did someone did you have amentor or a coach or somebody
say, Michael, this is what walkme through your journey, how
that how this happened.
Michael Pope (10:01):
Yeah, so this is back in early 2000, like I
mentioned, and I was intopersonal development.
So one of the things, you know,in 51, so I had cassette tapes
at the time, and I was listeningto a cassette tape from Brian
Tracy about it, it was somethingabout how to develop
confidence, or some confidencewas a part of the title of his
program.
And so I was listening to it,and he said, one of the things
(10:22):
that will help you out isjoining Toastmasters.
And I remember hearing aboutToastmasters before, but I never
really looked into it.
But after Brian Tracy saidthat, I went and found a
Toastmasters club, I showed up,and then I I've been a member 20
plus years now.
Tim Newman (10:38):
So so do you still still go to meetings on a weekly
or monthly basis?
Michael Pope (10:43):
Yes, yes.
Yeah, I'm currently active intwo clubs.
I'm also very active in mydistrict as far as doing um
presentations, helping otherspeakers as well.
So very active.
Tim Newman (10:56):
So so let me let me follow up here real quickly.
You help other speakers.
This is something that you knowI try and and and harp on a
lot.
If we want to get better, wecan't just get better for us.
We we have to to pour in otherpeople.
We have to help, you know, it'ssometimes it's like pulling
teeth.
(11:17):
I'm dragging you along.
Come with me because you youknow, you can do this, you can
get better.
You can you know, there's otherpeople out there that that need
that need that help.
And if we're in a position tohelp people, we should be we
should be doing that willinglyfor those that that want to do
the work.
Michael Pope (11:32):
Absolutely.
And you learn.
So I know I I know for mepersonally, I learn more.
If I'm helping someone elseovercome their fear of public
speaking, then it forces me toremember back when I had those
fears and think about theprocesses that I use as I'm as
I'm coaching them through it.
And so it just it's just awin-win scenario.
Tim Newman (11:52):
It really is.
Uh, and I can't.
So I've I've been involved withwith Maxwell Maxwell leadership
team for about six, sevenmonths now, and you you a lot
longer.
Um, the coaches that we haveaccess to, the mentors that we
have access to are number oneare incredible.
I mean, yes, yes.
Um and you know, let's let'sjust talk about Roddy Galbert
(12:13):
for for just a second.
I don't think I've ever metsomebody who is so willing and
accessible.
I mean, you I I could email himtoday, you know, at at let's
just say three o'clock, and ifhe doesn't get back to me today,
I'll have something when I wakeup in the morning with with
with a with a comment orwhatever.
He listens, you know, we cansend him videos and and he good
(12:34):
job, dude.
Yeah, it's it's funny becausemy wife now hears him and and
she's saying saying what what hesays, but you know, before
before I before I get out, it'sa good job, God bless.
Yeah and it but he's he's spoton.
And yes, and if you you know,if you track, at least for me,
if you track video one andyou're working on the same thing
(12:56):
to video five, you can you cansee and hear the progress.
What's something that he'staught you?
Michael Pope (13:04):
Well, so one, I admire the way he breaks down a
speech.
Yeah, right, because when Iwhen I attended my first IMC and
he broke down John's keynotespeech, and as far as these are
the number of stories John told,these are the examples John
did, and and and and here'swhere he put the points in.
So that helped me reallyunderstand how to organize a
keynote effectively.
(13:26):
Because my logical brain wouldjust be teach, teach, teach,
teach, teach.
And Roddy's like, no, you can'tjust teach, teach, teach,
teach, right?
You've got to break it up,you've got to have those stories
in there, some some type ofanalogy where the audience can
connect.
Um, so that's really helped meout.
When I went through stage time,and I've I've participated in
(13:46):
his stage time multiple times.
Like, I people always submitvideos to him before that.
But I remember one particularspeech, I was talking about my
grandfather my grandpa Joe, andI remember the beginning, like
you said, the first speechversus the one I gave on stage,
it was amazing thetransformation.
Like, there's things when Ifirst delivered it, I was like,
(14:07):
Oh, this is great.
There's no changes.
And then Riley was like, No,okay, change this, or you you've
got too many points, and itneeds to be one point for just
three minutes.
And right, this little thingthat I didn't think about
before, right?
He gave me them little smalltweaks along the way, which
which gave me a framework tomake all my other speeches and
stories better.
unknown (14:27):
Yeah.
Tim Newman (14:28):
Let's get back to framework in a second, but I've
got another question.
I've seen you with a a lot ofvideos with Les Brown.
Michael Pope (14:34):
Um, yes.
Tim Newman (14:35):
Tell me about that interaction because that's that
to me is I'd I'd love to spend10 minutes with him too.
Michael Pope (14:42):
You know, Les Brown is uh he's an amazing
human, right?
I I grew up listening to himwhen I was younger because for
me, he was like probably likethe only black speaker on the
stage at that at that at hislevel, and he's still doing it
today, right?
He's still on top, and he's 80years old.
So I've had opportunities, Ihad an opportunity to interview
(15:04):
Les in person.
I had opportunity to speak onthe same stage as Les a couple
times, and he gave me anendorsement video.
So I remember sitting backhaving lunch with Les, and this
asked him, Hey Les, will yourecord a testimonial for me?
He was like, sure.
You know, we grabbed the phone,he did it at one take.
He was like, This I'm talkingabout?
(15:24):
Okay, boom.
And his mind is so sharp.
Like he actually, Tim, he took,he asked me a couple of
questions and then he retold mystory.
A story by means he's like,hello, ladies and gentlemen, I'm
Michael Pope, blah blah blah,right?
And I was sitting there blownaway of how he just took that
little information that I gavehim and put it into a story
(15:45):
format.
He brought in quotes, he's verysharp, probably brought some
like some nice quotes to tie itin together.
Uh absolutely amazing human.
Tim Newman (15:54):
That that's that's awesome.
And you know, when I when Ithink about it, you know,
they're there are special peoplelike that, right?
That the number one, they'rethey're they're incredibly
intelligent, brilliant,brilliant people, brilliant
people.
And to be able to continuedoing those things at 80 because
(16:15):
they're continuing to do thosethings.
Michael Pope (16:17):
Exactly.
Tim Newman (16:18):
They can right, you you you you know what I'm
saying, right?
So they're not okay.
I'm 75, it's time to to to sitback.
Michael Pope (16:25):
No, no, I've got to give consistent.
Tim Newman (16:28):
Be consistent, continue to give back, continue
to provide value to otherpeople.
And that is that's I mean, thatwhen when you look at the older
generations, when they get to acertain age, they stop doing
things, and that's when theirmind starts to go.
That's when when other thingshappen.
But if you continue doing thethings that you love and you're
passionate about that you'regood at and providing value to
people, you can do these thingsfor for a long, long time.
Michael Pope (16:50):
Absolutely.
Like he one of the things hesays, he says, he said, I'm
gonna die with a mic in my hand.
He's like, I'm gonna keepspeaking as long as I can.
And he's he's gone through somemajor health challenges that
would have caused most people tosit back and retire.
You know, but he's he's he'sstill at it.
He was in I think Florida acouple of weeks ago.
(17:10):
I remember seeing pictures onthe internet with uh, I think he
was at Paul Martinelli had anevent and Les Brown spoke part
of that.
I think it was either it waseither in Texas or Florida.
I can't I don't remember now,but that's all it's it it's
amazing.
Tim Newman (17:24):
And you know, when when John Maxwell you know said
you know a couple weeks ago thatdude's 78, right?
And he dude is 78, he's writingthree books.
Come on now.
Michael Pope (17:35):
Exactly.
Tim Newman (17:37):
I struggle.
I I I just finished writingone, and I'm like, oh, but I I
got I gotta take a nap.
Michael Pope (17:42):
Yeah, he's writing three books, he's he's speaking
all around the world, right?
He he's still going to allthese different countries doing
his transform.
Like they just got back fromArgentina doing a transformation
trip.
And yeah, but he's he's livingwith purpose.
Tim Newman (17:54):
Right.
And and that's the thing.
That's at least for me, youknow.
I tell people I've I've beenlooking for this for a long
time, right?
And you know, the that that youknow uh found the people, and
it it's it's something that hasreinvigorated me and more gotten
me more passion back into doingwhat I do.
Um and it's it it's amazing.
(18:17):
And just how much I've learnedin six months, how much better
I've gotten in in six months.
You know, and I've never toldanybody this publicly.
My wife and I have talked aboutit.
I want to do what Roddy does,right?
I don't necessarily want to beyou know the the Johns or the
(18:38):
Lesses, right?
Yeah, I want to be Roddy.
I want to be the guy that thathelps other people become John
and Les.
Michael Pope (18:47):
That's awesome.
I'm sure that's greatfulfillment for Roddy, right?
Just seeing all these otheramazing speakers go out and and
because he's seen us likestruggle, like he he saw Chris
Robinson struggle, and then hesees Chris on you know big
stages all around rural.
Yeah.
So yeah.
Yeah.
Tim Newman (19:05):
And so I'm actually gonna see both Chris and Roddy
here in a couple weeks.
Michael Pope (19:10):
Oh, congratulations.
Tim Newman (19:12):
And I'm gonna tell I'm I'm gonna tell Roddy that.
I'm gonna say that that'sthat's what I'm that's what I
want to do, that's what I'mworking towards.
That's that's the the thedirection that that that I want
to head.
Because I I think you know, I Iend each podcast with your your
voice has a power to change theworld.
Um but you have to be able touse it.
And you have to know you haveto know how to use it.
(19:33):
You have to to to be able toformulate the the thoughts and
the feelings and the ideas sothat people can actually
understand what you're thepoints that you're that you're
trying to make.
And that leads me to theframework.
Let's get back to it.
Yes.
I I and I think frameworks forfor most people are are really
(19:59):
what they need.
They we don't need abstractideas.
We we need easy to to use, easyto understand pathways.
And and that's I I've beenusing frameworks for for for
pretty much everything.
If I find and if I findsomething that works, that's
what I do.
It's that's it becomes a go-to,it becomes habit.
So so talk to me about you knowso the uh uh some of the
(20:21):
frameworks that that you'vebuilt.
Michael Pope (20:22):
Absolutely, right?
So James Clear says you don'trise to the level of your goals,
you fall to the level of yoursystems.
And so systems in our case isframework, right?
That's all it is, a repeatableprocess.
And for me, one of my biggestframeworks that I use in almost
every area of my life is my doerframework.
And I wrote a book on it, DoersWin the Day here.
(20:44):
So it's an acrostic.
My framework, D-O-E-R, is theacrostic.
And when it comes to speaking,I use the same thing.
So D and for speaking in Doerwould be discipline.
And I learned from my mentors,Tim, that I have to have to
discipline myself to study othergreat communicators, right?
She told me to study otherspeakers, she gave me books,
(21:06):
CDs, VHS tapes back in the dayof these amazing speakers, and I
continue to study speakers,which is why I'm constantly
connecting with other speakersand learning from them, not
trying to copy them, butlearning from them.
How do they connect with theiraudience?
How do they tell stories?
All of that.
Right.
So that's part of theframework, the D discipline.
(21:27):
The O is typically for eitherone thing or when it comes to
speaking, it was theopportunity.
So my mentor, one of my firstspeaking mentor, she told me,
she said, Michael, takeadvantage of every opportunity
to speak.
And Tim, she knew that I wasintroverted and that I wouldn't
speak up in meetings.
She said, When you go to ameeting, ask a question, add
(21:49):
value in that meeting.
When you come to a if you cometo a Toastmasters Club and
there's no speeches that day,she says, I want you to get up
and give a speech.
And she constantly stretchedme, hey, there's an opportunity
to speak over here.
Go say yes, go speak.
Even if you don't feel ready,go speak, right?
So that was that's part of myframework is taking advantage of
(22:09):
every opportunity to speak.
The E in the doer acrostic iseliminate excuses.
I learned from another one ofmy mentors about how excuse
light is a failure disease, andI learned to start eliminating
any excuses that were holding mefrom doing something.
So if I'm feeling nervous aboutspeaking somewhere and the
(22:30):
topic is in alignment with me,then I just I go ahead and do
it, right?
I break free from that, even ifI'm a little nervous, it's a
bigger stage.
And I I've been places before.
I mentioned earlier aboutspeaking on the same stage as
Les Brown.
So I actually spoke rightbefore Les Brown.
Tim Newman (22:46):
Oh my.
Michael Pope (22:47):
And he he called back to my something I said in
my speech, which was prettycool.
But you think about like beingon the same stage of him in
imposter syndrome sitting insetting in, like, do you even
deserve to be here?
Right?
You you deal with that littletype of things, but eliminating
excuses.
So I had to break free fromthose excuses, those that
hesitation that's holding meback, and do it anyway.
(23:08):
Right.
And then R for me is all aboutresponsibility.
So it's personal responsibilityfor the two things that I have
complete control over.
One is my attitude, and theother is my actions.
That's it.
So I'm in control with the wayI think, my attitude about it
can either be a positiveattitude, and I use affirmations
to help me with that.
But my part of my framework isgetting myself in the right
(23:30):
frame of mind.
So before I go speak, I'mletting myself, hey, Michael,
you are amazing.
Today you're gonna do great.
Your audience loves you, theywant to see you succeed.
You're gonna add so much valueto them.
So I'm constantly tellingmyself things like that to
change my attitude, and then myactions is just me doing what I
can control.
So that means preparing for myspeech, make sure that I know my
content.
(23:50):
That way, when I get on stage,I'm not thinking in my head
about what am I gonna say?
I already know that.
Like that's already taken careof.
Instead, I can focus on theaudience, making eye contact
with people, sending them loveand and asking them questions
and feeling completely confidentknowing that I'm fully prepared
for this presentation.
(24:11):
So that's kind of how I use mydoer framework.
Tim Newman (24:14):
Yeah, let's go back to to excuses for just a second.
Michael Pope (24:18):
Yeah.
Tim Newman (24:20):
With imposter syndrome, you know, for we all
have we everybody has it.
Yeah, absolutely.
Everybody has it.
It depends on when it shows up,how it shows up, and how we
deal with it, right?
So when it comes to speakingfor you, where does that come
from?
How how how did that happen?
Is it just because you knowyou're that that that that
introverted person or is theresomething else?
(24:42):
Or how did that because uhbefore and again before you
answer, I read in your bookabout your grandfather's funeral
and it tore me up.
Dude, I was crying over it.
And so is so tell me how theimposter syndrome happened, and
did it happen because of that orbefore before that?
Michael Pope (25:04):
I say it happened before that.
So I grew up as an only child,and being introverted, I was
always slow to speak whensomeone would ask a question.
So what would happen is I wouldbe around other people, and
then someone else would speakfor me.
They would say, Oh, yeah,Michael doesn't like that, or
yeah, yeah, Michael doesn't wantto do that.
He wants to come over here withus.
(25:24):
And and I got used to havingother people speak for me.
Okay, and it made it to thepoint where I was like, Well, no
one wants to hear my words,right?
So then I would just tell thosestories you tell yourself.
Tim Newman (25:36):
Right.
Michael Pope (25:37):
And so that's kind of how I was.
And then going back to mygrandpa, my grandpa Joe's
funeral, sitting on that row,wanting to share with my his
family, friends, loved ones thatwere there to, you know, for
his funeral, wanting to sharehow wonderful Grandpa Joe was
for me, how the type of impacthe had made on me.
But I was still consumed withthe stories of, oh, what if I
(26:01):
mess up?
What if they don't like me?
Like all those differentwhat-ifs that I was telling
myself.
No one else told me that.
It was just things that I thatI thought.
Tim Newman (26:10):
Right.
And you and and and yourgrandfather had had a special
relationship.
Yeah, so and so moving forward,did that um I know eventually
you decided to to to take steps,but moving forward initially,
did did that make it worse, orwere you uh how how did that
(26:32):
change you?
How how did that evolve?
Michael Pope (26:34):
It made it better because it's uh because I've had
the opportunity to talk aboutmy grandpa Jill on so many
different platforms.
And I'm able to look back andsee, okay, even though I didn't
speak up that day, I'm speakingup now.
And I can still I still learnso much from my grandfather.
I mean, I still keep so I talkin the story about how he won
(26:56):
the Thomas Jefferson's ServantLeadership Award.
I still keep that on my desk asa reminder for for me of just
the type of man he was.
Right.
Um, and it's yeah, so it justit's just it constantly reminds
me of this, of creating theproper legacy, the type of leg
legacy that I want to be able toleave, where when I'm gone,
people can say, Oh yeah, Michaeladded so much value to me by
(27:19):
doing this, or the way heserved, or the way he did this
type of thing.
Um and so it just fuels me.
Tim Newman (27:26):
And and that gets back to where you are today
doesn't mean that's where youhave have to stay.
Again, exactly.
I mean, and you know, you'reyou're gonna be better tomorrow
than you are today becauseyou're gonna continue to work,
just like which when I when Ifound out you know, six months
(27:47):
ago that John Maxwell had aspeaking coach, I said, well, if
John Maxwell has a speakingcoach, how come everybody
doesn't have a speaking coach?
Um if he's still at 70 someyears old, still getting better,
why why is it that you know I'mnot getting better?
Why is it that I'm not doingthe things I need to do to get
better?
And that that was a wake-upcall.
Yeah, I didn't know that,right?
And so ever everybody can getbetter, but you have to do the
(28:10):
work.
That's that's the other youcan't just wish to get better,
you have to actually do thething, whatever.
Michael Pope (28:16):
I know I've paid thousands of dollars for
speaking coach, like outside,even outside of the Maxwell
team, even though I have accessto people like Roddy and other
people in the Maxwell team, I'vestill hired other coaches.
I mean, I'm I'm a part ofmultiple speaking programs where
I'm learning from other people.
So one is NSA Ohio, NationalSpeakers Association, I'm a part
of that organization, learningfrom those people.
(28:37):
But I've also hired coaches, soon people to coach me
one-on-one as well.
Tim Newman (28:42):
Yeah, that that that that's just because you've
decided to get better at yourcraft.
Michael Pope (28:47):
Yeah, that's that's what everybody, I mean, I
and and I'll say also, so I'vedecided to get better, which is
I think everybody wants to getbetter, but also I realize that
I only have so much time left onthis earth.
So it's like I can eitherstretch it out long and try to
learn it myself, or I can getcoaching to help me go further
(29:10):
faster.
Yes.
Tim Newman (29:11):
And that and that's that's the real key, right?
Michael Pope (29:13):
Yeah.
Tim Newman (29:14):
Because the the the better you get the the better
you get the quickest, the morevalue you can provide to other
people.
Absolutely.
And that's the that's the youknow that that's that's kind of
the the whole point of it, I I II would think.
You know.
Um and again, I gotta I gottabe honest, the excuses, I just
(29:36):
when we started this, I gaveexcuses why why I didn't reach
out to the other person.
Why I why I haven't asked,right?
That's you gotta takeresponsibility for that.
And and again, that's one thingthat I that I for for my
listeners to hear that that it'snot that I'm perfect either,
because I'm no different thanthey are.
So have the still have the samethought processes.
(29:57):
It's just taking steps to
Michael Pope (30:00):
get better at taking steps to to do whatever
the thing is re recognize it andthen taking new steps don't
don't just recognize and have aframework or you know a process
in place to help you with thatwhenever you whenever that
hesitation that fear shows upyou've got to have a process in
place absolutely um what whatwhat has been your your your big
(30:25):
biggest I wouldn't say fail uhbut your biggest embarrassment
at one stage and how did youdeal with it embarrassment I'm
not even I don't have any bigembarrassments that come to mind
but I'll tell you about I'lltell you about an opportunity
I'll tell you about one exampleof something that years ago
(30:48):
would have been I would haveconsidered an embarrassment.
So my wife and I actually flewto Jamaica I had an opportunity
to speak in Jamaica last year atsomeone's um live the lead
event and you know I showed upearly prepared asked to do a
tech check but they they didn'twant to do that like that and
they were like oh we got it wegot it right the the the host
(31:11):
introduces me to go speak I wasthe first in-person speaker so I
go up on stage get ready tospeak and I see the person over
at the the desk trying to unlockum the computer to just show my
slides so they had to wait forthe host to come over and unlock
the computer they get theslides up well they're trying to
get the slides up but it won'twork so about 20 minutes into a
(31:36):
I guess a 40 minute presentationthey finally got the slides
working.
Years ago Tim that would haveI'd have been floored because
I'd have been like what am Igonna say everything is on the
slides right but thankfully Iknew my content I knew my story
so I was able to go throughwithout my slides and then once
(31:57):
they got it working I was ableto quickly calmly you know click
advance to it and then showthem some of the things that I
had mentioned just from stage.
Right but the audience didn'treally know even though like
they knew they were working onthe technically everybody could
see that in the room but theythey were like oh wow we didn't
you didn't even really need yourslides I mean you you were just
so comfortable and all that butthat just takes preparation
(32:21):
right it you know it's it'spreparation practice and and you
know we when I was teaching andI would I would ask the
students what their process isin preparing for a a five minute
presentation or whatever youknow doesn't really matter they
would tell me the first thingthey they would do is open up
(32:41):
PowerPoint.
Tim Newman (32:42):
I said no that's that's not that's probably the
last thing that you should do.
Exactly because you might notneed it well John doesn't use
PowerPoint he doesn't use slidesreally I mean he he has his his
his iPad there and he just he'smost of us wish he used
PowerPoint so we can so we canwrite down all the books and
take a piss exactly exactly andyou know but we've some I mean
(33:10):
even as adults we we we are soum I don't know tied into the
into the visual like like that'sgonna make or break everything
and the reality is that doesn'thave anything to do with it.
What makes or breaks it is youthe speaker are you do you are
you providing value to theaudience do you know who the
your audience is have you haveyou done the work have you done
(33:31):
the preparation have you donethe practice have you done the
things that you need to do toprovide that value to the
audience yeah so so what what'syour process you let's let's say
somebody calls you tomorrow youknow to to book to book you for
a speaking engagement in threemonths what's your process to go
(33:52):
from tomorrow to walking offthe stage yeah so the first
thing I want to know is what isa what does success actually
look like at the end of the dayfor this audience right so
typically if a company is isbringing me in to speak they
have a goal in mind of of whatthey want the audience to do and
if they don't I I'm gonna askthem questions to try to get to
(34:14):
a goal that way we got somethingto measure against right so if
their goal is that you know theywant people just to be inspired
or and take more action then weknow we have a goal in mind.
unknown (34:24):
Right?
Michael Pope (34:24):
So begin with the end in mind and then I can work
better to figure out okay whatframework is going to really
help me give them that goal andso I'll outline some type of
framework and and typically whenI whenever I'm speaking I
organize my content in aframework because I'm if I'm
giving a 45 minute keynote Ihave it in a nice framework then
that way if I need to cut itbecause of time I can take out
(34:47):
part of the framework and itstill flows fine.
So I go through that processand then obviously I'm gonna I'm
gonna practice the store I'mgonna find like okay what
stories can help me connectthese points and really make it
more relatable to the audienceand all that.
So I'll I'll go through thatwhole part of putting the
content together and practicingit.
And I'll practice my stories ifI'm doing anything new like I
(35:10):
may take it to a Toastmastersclub and practice part of the
presentation I've done it acouple times.
And then my goal Tim is is tohave the content down prior to
going to the event.
And then that way when I'm atthe event especially if it's in
person I like to go in and andeven on the introvert like I
like to go meet people and justconnect with the audience a
(35:34):
little bit beforehand.
Right.
Because I'm not thinking aboutmy content I want to think about
you know you and your needs whyyou you know what brings you
here to this event where youlook what are you hoping to gain
today type of thing.
Because then once I know that Ican get on stage and as part of
my process actually before Ieven get on stage if I'm if I'm
coming up like up on a stagebehind a curtain I'll look out
(35:56):
at the audience one of mymentors taught me this is look
at as many people as possibleand just send them loving
thoughts thinking like hey Ilove you I'm gonna add value to
you today.
I love you I'm gonna add valueto you today.
Right?
So I'm just I'm thinking aboutthe audience and then when I get
out there of course deliver thecontent as as rehearsed however
still be flexible enough whereif I need to engage with the
(36:18):
audience or if I need to likeask someone a direct question or
something right I can I canstill mold that into my
presentation so it's so it feelsnatural.
And then my process when Ifinish so part of my refreshing
moment is stopping to celebrateright so you know you get the
applause but when I'm walkingoff stage you know I'll in my
(36:39):
mind I'm thinking Michael youdid an amazing job right I'm I'm
I'm praising myself before I goout and talk to the audience.
Right.
Tim Newman (36:47):
That and I I think that that piece right there is
is really important because itit shifts your your mindset from
presenter mindset to to to toto now just back being wow it's
it's really good now I can goand be myself interact with
people you know for how forhowever long it is um and and
(37:08):
and again I it I think a lot ofthings that we do that we don't
really think about from from adifferent perspective is all
mindset.
It's it's it's where are wewhat what mindset should we be
in to do this and what mindsetdo we need to switch into to go
10 feet from here what whateverthat is because it's you can't
be in speaker mode when you'reinteracting with people.
Michael Pope (37:32):
Maybe think about your flash or I didn't say this
or you know right right becausethen you that then there's gonna
be that disconnect he he's notthat he's not that personable
person that he looked like up upup on stage right it it's it's
it's very different and and thenyou have that disconnect which
is and I used to be like thatI'll be honest with right so I
used to be like that wheresomeone would say like to Tim
(37:54):
and you said hey Michael you dida great job I was like oh no
but I forgot to say this or Ireally wanted to tell the story
like this or this example rightbut so I'm thinking all about me
versus you know accepting youknow praising you know thanking
you for for thinking that I dida great job right exactly
instead of me and and and thenthey know that it wasn't about
(38:16):
them with just in the in thathalf a second they already know
that that it you think it wasmore about you than exactly them
and yeah and you've lost you'velost all the credibility that
you that you had built up.
Yeah and I made them feel badbecause they like I went I went
up and praised this person nowhe's telling me how you know
that it wasn't good right sosome some I'm questioning your
(38:37):
judgment exactly you know butit's I I love that you you you
talk about the having thatframework and that and that
preparation because these thingsdon't just happen yeah you know
you don't just get up on stageand wing it you don't just go to
a meeting and wing it you don'tyou don't go to an interview
and wing it you you have to tobe successful at anything it
(39:01):
does I don't care what it is yesyou have to prepare.
Yeah I talked about that a lotin the 16 16 undeniable laws of
communication about that theimportance of the the practicing
and not winging it even if youthink even if you've done it a
million and one times right youstill practice it and and I I
(39:21):
keep bringing this back to Johnyou know I I listened to
something very recently and itand it comes up a lot.
Tim Newman (39:27):
You know so somebody asked him the question what
he's thinking about before heright before he goes on stage
and he said he's thinking abouthow he can add value to the
audience.
He's not thinking about oh do Ineed to tell this story or that
story.
He he how is he going to addvalue?
It changes you it does.
And and if you I think if youjust change your mindset just a
(39:54):
little bit and you know do thethings that that are going to
make you successful and startthinking about how you know the
the gifts that you have that canhelp other people pour pour
into other people add value toother people for what for
whatever it is right it doesn'treally matter what what it is
because we all we all havedifferent skill sets we all have
(40:16):
different interests but if wecan help people get from where
they are from point A to point Bwherever it is they want to go
that's really what what this isabout.
And uh you have at least atleast I think you have to be
willing to do the work to beable to do that.
Because you can want to helpthem and you can be selfish
about it and say well you justdo it like this that doesn't it
(40:38):
doesn't really help anybody.
You've got to help them the waythey want to be helped.
Michael Pope (40:42):
Yeah absolutely and you're right you got to do
the work too right and and thatwork happens when you're not
getting applause when whenyou're not on stage in front of
people right you you're in aroom by yourself and you're
practicing your content eitherit's out loud or you're
practicing in your head butyou're still going doing the
work so that when you do show upon stage everyone knows you did
the work.
Because it's gonna seemnatural.
Tim Newman (41:04):
Yeah and that it it it's critical and I I think that
you know I talk talk a lotabout knowing your audience and
what they want what they youknow why are they there you know
how how can how can you pourinto them how how can you give
them the value um that that tome is before anything else you
know what's you you you you saidit what's the outcome what what
what do you want what what doessuccess look like but you you
(41:28):
have to know that before youeven start opening up
PowerPoint.
Yeah right you know that's likepretty pictures and you know
exactly exactly I was I'm I'mactually taking a class right
now um about uh uh teaching onZoom speaking on Zoom oh yeah
(41:48):
okay um and I've been doing itfor for years but again you know
you you want to get better youknow you know where are the new
techniques and you know we werediscussing last night I've got
to do a a different kind ofpresentation I've never done
before in at a conference herein in January it's it's only
five minutes okay it's andthat's I could I say I can do it
(42:09):
my sleep but I already knowwhat I want to talk about but I
haven't scripted it out yet.
Michael Pope (42:14):
It's hard I tell you it's harder to do a five
minute talk than it is to do a45 minute talk.
Tim Newman (42:18):
It is it is and that and I and I gotta thank Roddy
for that too because you knowwith these with these three
minute ones Exactly that'sreally that's a lot harder.
But it's a it's a what theycall a pecha kucha whatever type
of yeah I'm familiar with thatyeah so and now I have to worry
about slides because you get oneslide every 15 seconds.
One slide every minute orwhatever yeah it does it's every
(42:39):
15 seconds yeah so you know forme that's that's a I because I
would never even think about theslides.
Michael Pope (42:46):
That's like the last I'm I'm thinking about okay
this is what I want to talkabout but now I've got to think
about okay really what I want totalk about and how I'm going to
incorporate that into a slidein 15 seconds or or how that
that's gonna be challenging butit's it's I think it's gonna be
fun it is it it it really is uhbut if I would never suggest
(43:06):
that to somebody who's given apresentation for the very first
time but what would you suggestfor for somebody who who for the
for uh who lacks confidence forthe very first time has to give
a presentation what would beyour your keys to success or or
or steps to success for themyeah I would say record yourself
(43:27):
so do it to yourself right sopick up your that's the beauty
of the our cell phones rightgrab your cell phone set prop it
up and record yourselfdelivering it and then go back
and watch it but watch it with anon-judging eye and just look
at yourself and see how yousound i i you know I did a um so
(43:51):
my my oldest son is in a mediaclass where he's working on a
podcast and so we recorded hisfirst podcast episode uh on
Sunday and we're you know we didthe intro we played it back he
was like do I really sound likethat like yes that's how you
sound right I had explained tohim different things inner ear
and out of here right but but alot of times a a very a brand
(44:12):
new person has never really seenthemselves speaking on video
and you got to get used toseeing it so that way you can
give yourself proper feedbackand make improvements.
Tim Newman (44:22):
Yes and and it's uh seeing yourself and listening to
yourself is is is weird and yougot you you have to get over
that quick that that's thethat's a you you can't harp on
that just just get over it andand uh and move on.
But let's talk about your yourbook Doers Win the Day.
Yes because I I I'll be honestwith you I I I enjoyed that book
(44:44):
after I got done crying umthank you it was it was tough
because I've been there rightmay maybe not in that exact uh
way that you were but but youknow knowing that you should
have spoken up and saidsomething and you didn't and you
let that time you let it go andunderstand once you let it go
(45:04):
once that time passes there's nogetting it back.
You don't get it back.
You don't get it back.
Um but I I I I love the book Ilove the whole idea of the book
and and and it you know to to methe the title says it all yes
so what was the what was theprocess there for you how how
(45:27):
did the book come about what wasit that that you know you you
you're you're you're doing thisframework and you're doing
you're doing it you're doing andyou said and you said well this
is what works for me I shouldshare it or was it you know what
I I've got I've got to figureout how how I'm going to to do
or be or whatever and came upwith this and did the book.
How was the process?
Michael Pope (45:48):
Yeah so I was asked to give a 45 minute
keynote back in 2022 this is ona large stage and when I was
putting my content together Iorganized it using duer and I
was like oh that that worksperfect and so I put that
together and I gave that talkand then I started being asked
(46:10):
to give other presentations so Iwould take that DUR framework
and I gave it over and over andover and then finally I was like
man I really need to make turnthis into a book because I did a
I did a five minute speech forNSA Ohio as part of a a our
graduation type program that wedid and that was on be a doer
(46:34):
and I was like man if I had mybook it would have tied in so
well with that right so it'slike those missed opportunities
I'm like man I I'm giving thisspeech it'd be better for me to
have a book to go along with itand I had a mentor that told me
the same thing and said you wantto have a book based on your
keynote speech and I was likeokay yeah I'm gonna do that.
So then it was really easy forme to develop it.
(46:55):
So once I made a decision todeal with it I put it together
in less than a month.
Tim Newman (47:01):
Yeah I I I just kind of did I I literally am
finishing up doing the exactsame thing.
Um yeah I I wrote a book about12 years ago and I said never do
it again and then I was on acall now but I I was on a call
(47:21):
uh uh with with with Mark Coleand he said something that that
just it triggered me it was likethat's it and it just happened
uh you know and and th those arethose are good things it was it
was a it was a good trigger youknow that's that that's that to
me that was that was it waslike a key but but with with
(47:44):
doers from the day one onechapter that again really
resonated with me was the ideaof celebrating small wins yes
because I I think I think somuch and and this def is
definitely for me I don'tcelebrate small wins that's
that's not that's not whatwinners do winners we it's not
over till it's over we that'sjust a step in the process we're
(48:05):
not gonna celebrate nothinguntil it's over and that was my
mindset for the longest time umso talk about the whole idea of
celebrating small wins and whythat's so important to our
successes.
Michael Pope (48:16):
Yeah it is it's so important because if you wait
till you win the Super Bowl tocelebrate right if you don't
celebrate that first win whenyou know you you're playing
against this team that's justokay right if you don't
celebrate that win you're nevergoing to make it to the Super
Bowl to celebrate the big win.
Right.
So that's why it's so importantto celebrate every day.
(48:37):
And so one of my son you know Imentioned before I have three
sons my my 17 year old he'sstill learning how to drive and
so him and I would we'll go outon a regular basis teach him how
to drive but I always make surethat we after we're done before
we talk about areas ofimprovement and all that we stop
to to recognize what he didwell so we can have something to
(48:59):
celebrate.
Just to reinforce that yes Idid this type of thing um and we
need that in our lives becausea lot of people Tim they'll wait
till you know December 31st andthey're like and they look back
on the year and they're likeokay I didn't I didn't hit this
goal I didn't hit that goalright there they're focused on
(49:20):
what they didn't do versus ifevery single day if they
celebrate hey I I won the daytoday by doing this I won the
day of day by doing this then atthe end of the year you've got
so many different wins you'regonna feel like you're gonna
really see your six your yourgrowth because most of us don't
see our growth but once you'veif you celebrate it every single
day you know you've grown rightand and it and it builds up
(49:44):
momentum right it builds thatmomentum just like if you have
that negative self-talk thatbuilds that momentum too it's
exactly it slows you down yousay okay why even try right yeah
you'll do that right you knowyou you you don't do something
on Monday and you say well okayI'm I'm just gonna take the week
off I'll start again next nextweek that's just guess what that
that turns in I'll start nextmonth which that's well next
(50:08):
year July it's July I'll justI'll just start next year you
know and and and that's thatthat's what happens though right
I mean you because you're gonnahave bad days I mean that's
you're there's gonna be dayswhen you don't get things
accomplished but you have to beable to look back and say okay
well I did get this accomplishedI did I did do I did do this or
I did do that.
Tim Newman (50:26):
And it it's it's about that momentum that builds
consistency that that that thatthat builds that um desire to to
to continue uh doing it it'sit's just so important and I
think we need I think a lot ofpeople need to change mindset.
Michael Pope (50:39):
Yeah right so even something like this like I you
know I'm gonna I'm gonna applaudmyself for having a successful
podcast interview because therewas a time in my life when I
wouldn't have been able to dothis.
Yeah absolutely you knowwithout being nervous and and
feeling like I had to be perfectwith every word and yes nobody
wants perfect anyway.
Tim Newman (51:00):
Exactly right nobody wants nobody wants perfect.
Michael Pope (51:02):
So well Michael thank you so much for for
spending some time with us againthank you enough where can
people connect with you and andfind out what you're doing yes a
couple places one you can getthe book Doers Win the Day you
can go to doerswinthhey dot comyou can also find it on Amazon
and you can also connect with meat michaelpoptraining com.
Tim Newman (51:23):
Awesome again thank you so much take care and and uh
look forward to catching upwith you real soon.
Thank you be sure to visitspeakwithconfidence podcast dot
com to get your free ebook top21 challenges to public speakers
and help over the community youcan also register for the forum
public speaking always rememberyour voice is a power changing
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Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.