June 2, 2025 • 56 mins
Some people walk into a room and instantly connect. Others spend the night hovering near the veggie tray, wondering how anyone makes networking look effortless.
In this episode of Speaking With Confidence, I talk with Michael Morgan, author of The Power of Networking and a seasoned leader with experience at Amazon, JPMorgan Chase, Walmart, and Chevron, to explore how meaningful relationships can fuel career growth and unlock opportunities you never saw coming.
From fraternity events at Penn State to Fortune 100 boardrooms, Michael shares how one connection changed everything. But this episode goes beyond traditional networking tips. We dive deep into leadership communication, active listening skills, and the presentation skills development needed to stand out, especially when you feel like an imposter in the room.
Key highlights include:
- How to build authentic connections (even if small talk drains you)
- The power of “disagree and commit” and speaking up without stepping on toes
- Using storytelling techniques to build trust and open doors
- Overcoming fear of public speaking and speaking anxiety in high-stakes moments
- Strategic preparation tips to tailor your communication and personal brand
If you want to become a powerful communicator, the kind people remember and want to refer, this episode will give you a roadmap to do just that.
Connect with Michael:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelvmorgan/
https://www.instagram.com/michael.v.morgan/
https://www.tiktok.com/@michael.v.morgan
Visit TimNewmanSpeaks.com to grab your free resource, The Top 21 Challenges for Public Speakers and How to Overcome Them, and start building the confidence you deserve.
Want to be a guest on Speaking With Confidence? Send Tim Newman a message on PodMatch
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Episode Transcript
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Tim (00:08):
Welcome to Speaking with Confidence, a podcast dedicated
to helping you unlock the powerof effective public speaking.
I'm Tim Newman, a recoveringcollege professor turned
communication coach, and I'mthrilled to guide you on a
journey to becoming a powerfulcommunicator.
I want to thank each and everyone of you for your support.
It truly means the world to me.
If you have questions or if youwant something covered on the
podcast, please send me a note.
(00:29):
Also, please visittimnewmanspeakscom to get your
free ebook the Top 21 Challengesfor Public Speakers and how to
Overcome them.
Today's guest is Michael Morgan.
Michael obtained his BS fromPenn State University and his
MBA from Carnegie MellonUniversity, coupled with his
educational background.
He has over 15 years of workexperience across companies such
(00:50):
as Amazon, walmart, jpmorgan,chase and Chevron.
He has a passion for teachingand inspiring others to achieve
their goals, which led him towrite his first book, the Power
of Networking, and begin hisjourney as a motivational
speaker.
To write his first book, thePower of Networking, and begin
his journey as a motivationalspeaker.
Michael, welcome to the show.
(01:11):
You know I love all my guests,but I just can't do the we are.
I just can't do it, but I'msorry.
Michael (01:18):
It's okay.
Tim (01:22):
I don't mind.
I spent a good portion of myprofessional career in
Pennsylvania.
The Penn State fans up thereare all over the world.
Really, penn State has a fanbase that's literally all over
the world, but in Pennsylvaniain particular, they're rabid.
They're everywhere and,honestly, when I look at
(01:42):
different fan bases, they reallyare one of the best.
They're not like Eagles fans Ihope you're not an Eagles fan,
okay but they really are one ofthe best.
Michael (01:53):
I absolutely agree.
Like you said, the alumni baseis so robust.
Personally, I've lived in NewYork, pennsylvania, delaware,
texas, washington, californiaand I mean anywhere that I moved
to.
I mean alumni have open arms.
There's always watch partiesfor football games any city, any
(02:16):
state that you go to, sothey've always been a great
support system for me.
Tim (02:20):
And you know what.
We'll get into that a littlebit as we go through this today
and you mentioned a lot of thatstuff in your book we're going
to talk about some networkingand how important networking
actually is.
A lot of times we talk aboutnetworking just from a
professional perspectiveperspective as well.
(02:46):
That I think is forgotten a lotand how important it is you
know to to to network, to buildyour, your, you know your, your
personal life as well and andyou've got some really good
examples in your book that thathopefully we'll get to, but to
me it's just just so important.
Michael (03:00):
Absolutely.
It's critical, like, like Isaid, I said I've moved around
to multiple states, multiplecities that I've never been to.
If I didn't have my supportsystem, if I wasn't able to
network I don't know build thatnetwork and they ended up moving
right back home.
And then also just personal itopens up the doors for
(03:30):
opportunities you wouldn't eventhink, not career wise, like, as
an example, I own twoproperties and people in my
network have reached out to meabout the opportunity to buy
properties.
One of the properties I ownI've never even seen the house.
Wow.
But the people in my networkhave opened up the door and told
me about these things.
I've invested in startups andit's not like there's a website
(03:54):
where you can go on and say, oh,I want to invest this many
thousands of dollars in thisstartup at a convertible note.
It's a closed circle and if youknow people, they can invite
you to invest in a startup.
So a lot of people in mynetwork have opened up doors for
me to build wealth outside ofmy career.
They've been a great supportsystem wherever I've moved to,
(04:16):
wherever I've lived.
So I completely agree, it's notjust about the professional
setting.
Tim (04:21):
And again, I think that's forgotten or we don't focus on
it because, you know, the focusis always on professional and
work and those types of thingsand there is that other side,
which I think there's good andbad there.
I think, because you get somuch variety of experience and
(04:49):
experience in different types ofthings, is there something that
you noticed in all of them thatthey're doing well in terms of
hiring and professionaldevelopment?
Because I think you know thosetypes of things, especially from
a young professional'sperspective, they don't even
really think about.
Michael (05:06):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I would say.
As far as hiring, they use alot, of, a vast amount of
channels to make sure they'regetting a diverse pool set of
talent that's coming into thecompany.
So a lot of the companies I'veworked for, they already have
partnerships with specificschools that they'll go on
campus and recruit fromregularly.
But they're also going todifferent conferences.
(05:27):
They'll go to Afrotech, they'llgo to National Black MBA,
they'll go to Lesbians who Tech,they'll go to Association of
Latin Professionals of America.
So there's differentconferences.
They go to veterans conferences.
So this way they're gettinggreat talent that has Black,
hispanic, native American, apart of the LGBTQ plus community
(05:48):
, former military veterans.
So I think by expanding thepool, using different recruiting
websites to find diverse talent, I think if you just focus on
one aspect of recruiting, you'renot going to find the talent
pool that you're looking for.
If you leverage multiplechannels, that way you can make
(06:10):
sure you're bringing a diversepool into your company and the
more diverse your employees aredifferent backgrounds, different
education, differentexperiences the more
well-rounded our ideas andapproach will be for any
strategy that we implement.
So when it comes to recruiting,I've personally loved what a
lot of the companies that I'veworked for have done making sure
(06:32):
that they're looking atdifferent channels to find the
right talent.
Tim (06:35):
Yeah, and you know, if you tie that into networking, you
know again, the more diverse thetalent pool is and the more
diverse the organizationalstructure is.
That also helps the youngprofessional from that
networking perspective.
Certain people aren't beingshut out because of narrow
(06:57):
hiring practices.
Let's just put it that way.
Michael (07:00):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely.
And I've seen some of thecompanies I've worked for.
They purposely try to make surethat the pool of interviewers
are diverse as well.
So to your point one, they'venoticed sometimes there's
unconscious bias.
(07:21):
Let's say, an interviewer comesin interviews with five
different people within thecompany and all five are of one
background and the intervieweris a completely different
background.
There could be a situation ofunconscious bias.
And then, secondly, they wantto make sure it's a good
interview experience, Right?
So if I'm interviewing and I'ma black man and I'm getting
interviewed by five people whodon't look like me, it may rub
(07:43):
me the wrong way and sway mydecision if I want to work for
that company or not.
So look at it from both sidesof the employer as well as the
potential employee.
I've seen a lot of companiesmaking sure that the interview
work pool is very diverse.
Tim (07:58):
So what are they doing in terms of professional
development?
That is good Because, again,that's something that, from a
young professional perspective,you start looking for your first
job and number one, you're notalways looking at what the
benefits of different companiesare and those types of things.
They're looking at salary,they're looking at time off,
maybe they're looking at healthinsurance, they're not looking
(08:20):
at retirement benefits, notlooking at all the other things
that some companies are doing.
And I think professionaldevelopment is one of the things
that people really should belooking at, because you know we
want you know, at least from myperspective, I want to be able
to help our people grow so thatthey can move up and move on and
(08:40):
reach the levels that theyactually want to teach, or that
they actually want to teach orthey actually want to get to.
Michael (08:46):
Oh yeah, absolutely so.
From a professional developmentstandpoint, basically every
company I've worked for theyoffer trainings.
There's always some type ofeither LinkedIn learnings or
Udemy Coursera.
There's usually some freetrainings that I can take to get
up to speed either in theindustry or in my specific
function, so I'm always takingtrainings.
(09:08):
There's usually a budget forprofessional development in most
of these companies, which hasallowed me to go to different
conferences.
In order for my growth.
I can go to conferences andlearn from breakout sessions
from keynote speakers.
I've been able to get differentcertifications.
All my companies have paid forit.
So I have a Lean Sigma BlackBelt certification.
(09:29):
I have a contract andcommercial management
certification.
I have a Tableau desktopcertification.
I have a project managementprofessional certification.
I haven't paid for any of them.
Tim (09:39):
How awesome is that?
I mean, those things arecrucial and critical for growth,
right, and not just because,again, let's back up.
It's not just professionalgrowth, it's personal growth.
Let's just say some of thestuff you may never use and you
may use it.
You may not, but you'relearning new things, and just by
(10:01):
learning new things, how thatopens other doors for you.
Michael (10:07):
Yeah, absolutely it.
It it definitely opens up otherdoors for you and companies are
willing to invest in yourpersonal development.
If you, if, if they invest inyou and you become a stronger
employee and you're better ableto do your job, you can help the
company perform better.
So there's generally funds toallow for professional
development.
You just have to ask thequestions.
(10:28):
A lot of people in my networkare surprised when I tell them
all the trainings I've taken,all the certifications, all the
conferences I've been to, I waslike, did you ask your manager
Generally, if you're willing toask the questions, they're
willing to expense it and fundit for you.
I think a lot of people arejust scared to ask the questions
.
Tim (10:44):
They're willing to expense it and fund it for you.
I think a lot of people arejust scared to ask the questions
.
Yeah, and I do want to get intothat.
I come from a sport backgroundand one of the analogies I
always talk about is from aticket sales perspective, and I
can't remember the specificnumber.
But it costs so much less torenew a season ticket holder
than it does to go out and finda new one.
And it's the same thing inbusinesses and organizations.
(11:07):
It costs so much less to treatemployees well, to give them the
things that they need to besuccessful, than it is to have
to go out and hire somebody andtrain them so that they can, you
know, fit in.
You know, to me, it's aboutmaking sure that we're.
It's about relationships andmaking sure that we're taking
care of people.
Michael (11:28):
Yeah, no, I absolutely agree.
And on on top of that you'reyou're talking about the cost,
but the time as well.
If, if I lose an employee andnow I have to go through the
interview process, I have tocreate a rec, then I have to go
through the interview process.
It could take me three plusmonths just to interview
candidates to find the rightcandidate, and then it might
(11:50):
take me another three to sixmonths for the candidate to ramp
up and get comfortable in therole where they can actually
start performing, as opposed toif I just kept the employee
happy and had them in there, Iwouldn't have that low of nine
months to a year where I'mtrying to find another candidate
to backfill that role and getthem up to speed and get them
(12:11):
acclimated.
So I completely agree and I'm apeople manager myself and I try
to build a culture of inclusionand try to make sure that
employees feel valued andappreciated and informed to keep
them happy.
So, regardless whether theystay on my team or not, they
should be happy within thecompany and they're not looking
(12:32):
for other opportunities outsideof the company.
Tim (12:37):
Right.
And here's the other thing withthat, michael, and everything's
about relationships, I don'tcare.
It's AI, this AI, that IT, youknow what.
Everything is going to comedown to your personal
relationships and those types ofconnections and, as leaders,
(12:57):
you nailed it.
And even if let's just say, wegive this person everything that
we can and they're happy, andat some some point it's okay to
let them go because we may nothave a role for them to ascend
to, and if you know what, gofind it and hopefully in the
(13:18):
near future we can have a rolefor you.
I mean, obviously we're nottrying to push people out the
door.
Obviously, we want to make surewe can do everything that we
possibly can to keep them, butyou know, at the end of the day,
there's only so many roles thatcan be filled and if you're
ready to go, you know whatAwesome Congratulations, and
(13:40):
that also says something about acompany.
You know we did everything thatwe could and there's that good
relationship and we would loveto have you back, and then that
person is going to go and talkto their friends and their
network.
You know what this really is atruly good company to work for.
They've got great people there.
They've done all of thesethings in a positive way.
They have no negative words atall, and that says a lot.
Michael (14:05):
Yeah, absolutely, and I've.
I've seen both sides of thespectrum.
I've seen managers who've saidthings behind an employee's back
to block their transfers toother teams because they they
had their own intrinsic interestand want to keep a strong
player on their team.
Obviously the employee foundout they're leaving anyway.
(14:28):
So a lot of times I tell people, like, put yourself in your
employee's shoes, like if youwere in their same situation
you'd want the support from yourmanager.
If there's no role for them togrow into and get to that next
level, you know, support themhowever you can to make sure
they get into that role.
Like, don't don't try to stiflesomebody and just keep them on
your team, for for your sake youhave to do what's best for your
(14:51):
employees.
Tim (14:52):
So you know I'm also a big, a huge proponent in preparation
and, um, as I was going throughyour book, you know you talk
about that a lot, which I reallyenjoyed.
But you talk about interviewpreparation and then, if you
prepare the same way for eachcompany, you set yourself up for
failure.
(15:13):
What are some examples ofdifferent ways that you know
Amazon, jp Morgan, chevron thatyou would need to prepare
differently?
Michael (15:23):
Yeah, absolutely so.
As an example, amazon hasleadership principles.
The whole interview process isfocused around their leadership
principles.
Okay, so you need to know alltheir leadership principles and
you need to tie in your storiesand be able to tie them into
leadership principles and showthat you're a good fit for the
culture at Amazon.
(15:43):
So that's, that's the stylethat Amazon specifically uses
for interviews.
Chevron is big on safety.
Their their motto is the theChevron way and they do things
the right way every single time.
So a lot of my like interviewresponses when I was talking
with Chevron is being ethicaland make sure I'm doing things
the right way and how importantsafety is to me.
(16:05):
So I mean, if I, if I went intothe Amazon interview, focused
on safety and ethical, like likeAmazon's focused on leisure
principles, if I went intoChevron, focused on leisure
principles, that's not whatChevron wants.
So so, making sure youunderstand what each company is
looking for and then, on top ofthat, understanding the culture
(16:30):
and why you want to work forthat specific company.
I've seen so many people stumbleon why do you want to work for
this company?
And they'll just give a genericoh, you're a big company,
you're the biggest company inoil and gas.
You're the biggest company intech and it's like there are a
lot of big companies in tech.
You could say that for Amazon,google, apple, meta, like that
(16:53):
doesn't show that you want towork for Amazon, so it's
definitely important that you'recatering, you're understanding
what each company is looking for, because everyone's different,
even Google.
I haven't worked for Google.
I know some of my friends havetold me Google does a lot of
case questions and theoreticalquestions.
So if you don't put in the duediligence to understand how the
(17:16):
interview process is for eachcompany, you are going to hurt
yourself and it's going to bedetrimental to your
opportunities.
Tim (17:24):
Yeah, and again it comes back to that preparation and
doing the work, and I thinkthat's something that and I, you
know, I always have focused onyoung professionals here but and
I'm sure that happens a lotmore than I would like to think
it does but I think from a youngprofessional perspective, they
(17:46):
don't truly understand thatprocess and the competition that
they're up against and and howthey have to figure out how to
stand out from that competition.
I mean cause, even if let'sjust say I mean you, you've been
here, right, you've got 35students in a class.
That's just in that one class.
(18:16):
What about the other 15sections?
What about the other 30institutions in the state minded
?
And they have to really kind ofopen their eyes up and say,
okay, look, here's an example.
I used to tell my students thatI'm one in a million.
They could find somebody tocome in here and replace me,
like that.
It's my job to figure out howI'm actually different and why
(18:42):
I'm here.
And when you go out and youstart looking, you've got to
figure those things out too.
And it's hard for them tounderstand it until they
actually get out there and theysee.
Well, you know, I applied for15 jobs.
I didn't get any calls back.
Well, there's probably reasonfor that.
Let's sit down and take a lookat it, but that's happening
(19:03):
millions of times every dayacross the country.
Michael (19:07):
Yeah, absolutely so.
I've.
I have examples, just like you.
So, as an example, when I wasat Chevron, I would do
recruiting for the company atNational Black MBA every year.
To give you context, theconference National Black MBA
has about 10,000 attendees everyyear.
For the procurement supplychain program that I was
(19:30):
interviewing for, we had 10interview slots and we gave one
offer.
Wow.
So you can imagine I havehundreds, if not thousands, of
people that are showing interestin this interview.
We have 10 slots, we give oneoffer.
It's definitely competitive.
You have to differentiateyourself.
And then to your point.
(19:50):
That's one of the reasons thatI do I'm big into professional
development.
You have to differentiateyourself, professional
development.
You have to differentiateyourself when I'm applying for
roles at different companies andthey see okay, not only does he
have his undergraduate degree,he also has his MBA.
He also has four certifications.
He also has work experience atthese different companies.
(20:11):
Well, now I've set myself apartbecause everybody that's
applying for these roles doesn'thave their graduate degree.
Everyone's applying for theseroles doesn't have these
certifications.
So I'm continuing to grow anddevelop and add new skill sets.
That's going to differentiatemyself from other candidates.
It's just so important.
Tim (20:30):
Let me ask you about Amazon here for a second, because
again, I didn't want the wholeinterview to be about your book,
but I love the book.
I mean, I love it, Thank you.
So you talk about leadershipprinciples and one of those
principles was disagree andcommit and that really resonated
(20:55):
with me.
Michael (20:59):
Walk us through what the disagree and commit
leadership principle was or is.
Yeah, so, and working at Amazonopened my eyes, so I love the
experience.
But essentially, disagree andcommit.
You're empowered to challengepeople.
So what I've seen at othercompanies before I joined Amazon
(21:20):
like you'll go into a meeting,someone shares an idea, people
may feel that they don't havethe confidence or they don't
have the power, the title, theauthority to disagree and we'll
sit in a room, someone shares anidea and everyone just kind of
nods.
It's groupthink.
Everyone wants to be likable.
So, even though you may notagree with the idea, I don't
(21:41):
want to challenge someone to rubthem the wrong way and then we
just move forward with an idea,whether we like it or not,
because we just don't want torub people the wrong way.
At Amazon, disagree and commit.
(22:02):
If you don't agree withsomeone's idea, it doesn't
matter what your title is, itdoesn't matter what your level
is.
You are empowered to speak up.
It's your responsibility tospeak up and there's nothing
wrong with disagreeing withsomeone.
It's how you go about doing it.
So if I don't agree withsomeone's idea I've seen this in
(22:23):
meetings.
But I've seen a meeting someonedoesn't agree with the idea and
they just say, oh, that's adumb idea, like that's not
constructive.
Like to just say it's a dumbidea, like that's that's not
good.
But at Amazon, if I don't agreewith someone's idea, I may say,
hey, can we take a step back?
I have some concerns from afinancial standpoint.
Do we have the budget to moveforward with this?
(22:45):
What's the return on investment?
So I've shown that I hadconcerns and I've expressed what
I'm concerned about.
And now that person thatproposed the idea, they can go
back and do their due diligenceand do the analysis from a
finance standpoint to make surewe have the budget and calculate
what's the return on investment.
Or I may say hey, you know thissounds great.
Did you speak to legal?
(23:06):
Are we covered from a legalperspective?
I don't know if we can feasiblydo this and that person will go
back and do the due diligenceand make sure they follow up
with legal.
So you can express yourconcerns, you can do so in a
constructive way and by speakingup and voicing your opinion.
Now we're making sure that we'rethinking through all different
(23:27):
scenarios so we can reach thebest decision, the best strategy
, which is the value ofchallenging people.
And then the disagree andcommit part is I can disagree.
Ultimately, when we make adecision, we're all committed to
that decision.
So I've challenged you, we'vedone the due diligence, you've
(23:48):
answered my follow-up questionsand once we get to a point where
we have a go no-go decision andwe move forward with that
strategy, we're all committed tothat strategy strategy.
We're all committed to thatstrategy.
So it's for me.
It was very eyeopening howeveryone is empowered to speak
up and, like you're, you're inthe room for a reason.
There's a reason you wereinvited to this meeting.
(24:08):
Voice your opinion.
Don't, don't just sit in theback and be a fly on the wall.
I was told.
If you're, if you're invited tomeetings and you're the person
that sits in the back anddoesn't speak up at a certain
point, you're probably going tostop being invited to the
meeting.
You're not adding any value.
You're brought to the meetingfor a reason.
Share your thoughts, speak up.
Tim (24:30):
So much to unpack there, and if young professionals could
get that, could get that, that.
It's okay to ask questions,it's okay to challenge, you know
, it truly is okay.
And I think there's a number ofthings that people need to look
(24:51):
at, and I think one of thereasons why this resonated with
me is because this is verysimilar to the whole idea of
don't leave the tent, and that'smy philosophy.
We're going to go in the tentand we're going to discuss it
and we're going to go back andforth, and back and forth, but
once we leave the tent, like yousaid, this is what it is, and
(25:11):
there's no bad mouth and there'sno talk.
This is what the organizationis committed to and we're going
to go at it and give it our 100%effort to it, but inside the
tent, that's where thediscussion happens, that's where
the back and forth happens andagain, there's a respectful way
to do it.
This is dumb.
It doesn't, like I said, doesnot add value at all.
(25:35):
I mean it's about how you askthe questions.
It's about the entire processof that, and that really
requires everybody to understand.
They've got to put their egoaside because it's not personal.
This is about what's best forthe team, the organization,
whatever it is that we'retalking about, and what's best
for them to move it forward andunderstand as an individual.
(25:58):
What's best for theorganization may not be what's
best for you at that time andyou have to accept that
sometimes it's gonna be what'sbest for you, sometimes it's not
, and that's part of being ateam yeah, absolutely, and I try
to.
Michael (26:13):
I try to tell people that all the time I think you
bring up a good point, don'ttake take it personal.
I've seen people havestrategies, ideas.
They'll present it in apresentation or through a paper.
Amazon's big on paper writing.
They don't do presentations.
So I mean different companieshave different methods where you
present your ideas.
But if their idea gets shotdown they kind of turn into a
(26:35):
shell and now they feel hurt,Like oh, I was attacked and this
is nothing on you personally.
We're trying to figure outwhat's best for the business,
what's best for the organization.
We only have so much money, weonly have so many resources.
There are a hundred or athousand projects we could be
working on.
We have to figure out what isthe most critical items that's
(26:57):
going to add the most value tothe customer.
You have to figure out what isthe most critical items that's
going to add the most value tothe customer.
So if you don't provide goodjustification and support that
your idea is the best pathforward and what should be
implemented and the way itshould be implemented, we're
going to push back.
But to your point, I tellpeople all the time you can't
take it personal.
(27:17):
This is about business.
We're trying to figure outwhat's best for the organization
and what's best for the company.
If they turn down your idea,it's not a knock on you
specifically.
Tim (27:27):
And from that perspective as well, it goes back to
preparation.
So if you're invited to ameeting on XYZ number one, you
need to be prepared to go in andtalk about XYZ Number one.
You need to be prepared to goin and talk about X, y, z and be
able to have that back andforth about.
You know.
This is my question on why andI don't see how this really does
(27:48):
connect X and Z.
Can somebody explain that?
Michael (28:12):
no-transcript.
I think preparation is key.
So anytime that I'm coming upwith an idea or a strategy on
how to resolve a problem, I'mreaching out to my team members
for feedback.
I'm reaching out to some of mycolleagues in different
functions.
I'm asking for feedback fromfinance, from legal, from
(28:32):
product, from engineering,because people will have
different perspectives thatmaybe I didn't take in
consideration and that way I'mbetter prepared.
I've talked to people indifferent functions.
I have different mindsets,different thoughts of how to
approach it.
One of the things I love toAmazon they try to get you to
write a FAQ document, frequentlyasked questions before you even
(28:55):
go with your strategy.
So I'm already thinking aboutwhat questions will they ask
when I present this and I'malready thought through how I
would answer those questions ifthey do ask it.
So that all goes intopreparation.
But preparation is key.
Tim (29:12):
You know again.
That just made me think aboutsomething.
You know, the FAQ document.
Amazon doesn't become Amazon bydoing things.
See their pants fly by night,right?
Yeah, because that is so.
I mean it's brilliant, but it'sreally common sense.
(29:33):
If you're going to beimplementing something new, you
know people are going to havequestions about it.
Let's figure out what thosequestions are going to be, that
way they can be answered.
We can get a little bit deeperand what those questions are
going to be.
And now, amazon is Amazon,apple is Apple, google is Google
, and they don't just makepolicies and decisions like that
(29:54):
.
Oh, let's give this a try,let's see if it works.
It's not good business and youknow, we as, as individuals,
have to to be able to, to tothink on that when a different
level and that's where the wholeidea of critical thinking comes
into play and and how we goabout our communication style as
well.
Michael (30:14):
Yeah, no, I absolutely agree it's.
It's so important and, like yousaid, I think so many people
just kind of overlook it, but itcan make such a big impact on
your career.
Tim (30:27):
So you know we talked about differentiating ourselves.
You know what are some ideas orsome things that you could tell
.
You know young professionals tobe able to differentiate, to be
able to differentiatethemselves when they go to those
conferences, when they go tonetworking events, and you know
(30:47):
you're just having conversationswith people.
Michael (30:50):
Yeah.
So I would say a few things.
So one if you're going to aconference, I tell people to go
in with a strategy.
So it goes to what we werediscussing with preparation.
So, like I said, I've been toconferences searching for a job.
I've been to conferences doingrecruiting and I've seen at
conferences people justaimlessly walking around.
They have no plan.
(31:11):
They'll talk to differentcompanies what do you have for
me?
What kind of roles do you have?
And it's a terrible strategyLike why did you even invest
your time and money to go tothis conference?
You didn't do the research ofwhat companies would be there,
what roles they have.
If you go into a conference witha strategy and say and
(31:31):
generally, I'd like to go inwith a mindset of a top five
companies, so I'll have fivecompanies that I know I want to
speak to and I'm doing researchon what roles they have
available.
And when the conference doorsopen, I'm making an effort to go
to those specific companies andtalk to them and show hey, I'm
really interested in yourprocurement supply chain program
(31:52):
.
I know you have the leadershipdevelopment program.
I think I'm a great fit.
I'm an MBA student at CarnegieMellon.
I'm focusing on strategy andsupply chain.
I'd love to talk to you more.
So it shows that I've done mydue diligence.
I came to this conferencespecifically interested in that
company, in that role, and I'msaying how I'm a good fit for
that role, as opposed to justwalking around and I hear people
(32:16):
like, oh yeah, I'm going tothis conference, I'm trying to
talk to 15 companies, 20companies.
If you throw out too wide of anet, you're not going to get
anything.
If you focus a little bit moreand narrow down your search and
know exactly who you want totalk to and what roles you want,
I think you'll stand out a lotmore at conferences.
So I think that's a good way todifferentiate yourself.
(32:36):
Show up early.
If a conference is two days,three days, I've seen people
walk up to my table on thesecond day, the third day, oh
yeah, I'm really interested inyour roles.
Well, we've already filled allthe interview slots.
So if you were reallyinterested, you would have
showed up the first day, up thefirst day.
(33:03):
I think it speaks volumes thatyou show up early and the doors
open at nine and I'm talking tothe companies I want to talk to
at 9.30, 10.
So I think that speaks volumes.
And then I'd say at networkingevents, the way to differentiate
yourself, just put yourself outthere.
I see a lot of people atnetworking events.
They already know a few peopleand they kind of gravitate
towards a group that theyalready know and don't really
(33:25):
interact or try to meet newpeople.
I try to make it a point if I'mat a networking event and I
know people, obviously I'll sayhi, I'm not going to just
completely ignore them and actlike I don't know who they are,
or they'll act like I don't knowwho they are, but I'll make it
a point to try to break awayfrom the people I know and try
to meet someone new.
That's the purpose of the event, so that I can build my network
(33:46):
and meet new individuals.
But I'll already, before I getto a network, I'll have in mind
things that I'll want to talkabout, depending on what the
networking event is.
If I'm at a networking eventthat's cyber security focused,
because I work in the cybersecurity field, I'll have topics
in mind that are cyber securityfocused, that that I know I can
(34:07):
talk about.
Or if I'm just at a generalnetworking event, like I'll,
I'll think of all right, what'sthe?
The last few things that I'vedone the last couple weeks, a
couple months.
Where have I traveled?
To what you know what would begood conversation starters.
So it's not an awkward momentwhere we're just standing there
looking at each other and notsaying anything.
(34:28):
So the hope is that,organically, we'll have a good
conversation but already havetalking points in my back pocket
that I can bring up to keep theconversation going if there's a
lull.
But that, like I said, that allgoes into preparation and it's
a good way to help differentiatemyself and make me stand out.
Tim (34:49):
Networking events.
For me as an introvert, it'sdeath.
I mean I hate going to them.
But here's the other thing as aprofessional, I understand that
those are some things that youhave to do, right, and you can't
go in.
Oh, this is death.
I've got to go talk to people.
You actually have to go in likea professional and do the
(35:11):
things that professionals do.
And so I'm kind of like you.
If I go to an event and I knowpeople there, I say you know
what, I'll catch up with youlater.
I'm kind of like you.
If I go to an event and I knowpeople there, I say you know
what, I'll catch up with youlater.
I'm going to try, I've got togo and try and talk to this
person, or I want to talk tothat person.
We can catch up later,afterwards, grab a drink or what
have you, but let me go dowhatever first.
(35:31):
So, again, like you said,you're not just blowing them off
, but you're there for specificreasons.
And again, I like your wholeidea of preparing and having
things in your back pocket thatyou can talk about ahead of time
.
What do you think aboutelevator?
(35:52):
You know so-called elevatorspeeches, elevator talks?
Michael (35:57):
I think elevator pitches are fantastic.
I would say in my opinion thoseare better for conferences as
opposed to a networking event.
At a networking event I'd wantjust a little bit more organic
conversation At a conference, ifthere are thousands of people
at a conference that are alltrying to talk to companies and
get job opportunities, you mayonly have a quick 30 seconds
(36:22):
where you can make an impressionon a recruiter, a company, to
get further conversations aboutthe potential of interviewing
for a role.
So if you're not prepared, it'sgoing to be a bad reflection on
you.
So I still remember my elevatorpitch.
I practiced it so much when Iwas in grad school.
(36:43):
I would go.
I'd say hey, my name is MichaelMorgan.
I'm a first year MBA student atthe Temple School of Business
at Carnegie Mellon University.
I'm concentrating in operationstrategy and organizational
behavior.
My previous work experience isat JP Morgan.
I'm greatly interested in yoursupply chain procurement program
and I'd love to talk to youabout it further.
Tim (37:00):
There you go.
Michael (37:00):
That's personal.
Yeah, and in a 30 second I'vegiven them hey, this is my
background.
I worked at JP Morgan.
I'm concentrating in operations, I'm interested in this program
, I'm going to this school.
And now it just sparked so manyquestions like oh, you're going
to Carnegie Mellon, how do youlike in Pittsburgh?
What made you decide you wantto concentrate in operations and
strategy?
(37:21):
What makes you interested inwanting to work at Chevron?
The ball just gets rolling fromthere.
But if I would have walked up toChevron's booth and just said,
hey, I'm Michael, what do youguys have to offer?
It completely changes theconversation.
The recruiters will look at melike this person clearly isn't
(37:43):
prepared.
They, I don't think they'reinterested in chevron.
They don't even know what wehave to offer.
They haven't done any research.
Like they haven't pulled me inwith their elevator pitch.
And they may talk to me for aminute and then they'll move on
to the next candidate.
Yeah, but if you have a goodelevator pitch and I've I've
experienced this you have a goodelevator pitch, you can end up
talking to that person for 30minutes or an hour.
(38:05):
Yeah, so it could be thedifference of a one or two
minute conversation versus a 30minute conversation and that
could really impact whether ornot you get the interview or you
even get the job right.
One of the things I tell peoplethere are a lot of when a role
is open, more than one personhas the skill set to do the job.
People aren't just hiring whocan do the job, they're hiring
(38:28):
who can they see themselvesworking with on a day to day
basis.
So if you're able to have agood conversation, if you're at
a conference with thousands ofpeople and you have a recruiter
or an employee at a companyremember you specifically
because you had a greatconversation for 30 minutes,
that's going to help you standout.
Exactly so it makes and, like Isaid, if you don't have that
(38:52):
elevator pitch down, you may noteven open up the door for that
30 minute conversation.
So it's definitely important.
Tim (39:00):
And let's take that, you know, one step further.
You know, from that networkingperspective, right, you know,
obviously elevator pitch, Ithink, are critical, I think you
need to be flexible with it and, you know, depending on who
you're talking to, where you'reat, you know, throw this in,
take that out, throw that inwhatever.
But networking isn't just aboutyou going up and talking to
(39:23):
people.
It's about buildingrelationships and connections,
right, it's about findingsomething that you connect with
that other person so that thenext time that you either reach
out to them or the next timeyour paths cross Michael, you
(39:43):
know you talked about beingCarnegie Mellon in Pittsburgh
Did you go to that restaurantthat I told you to?
Did you ever go to?
I don't know?
Pick a restaurant?
Or how's your wife, you know?
You told me that she was, youknow, starting a business or
kids or whatever it is.
And it's about building thoseconnections and building that
(40:05):
relationship.
It's not just about a one-waytransaction of you trying to
sell yourself.
Michael (40:10):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
And I tell people all the time.
I try to find commonalities.
So maybe we went to the samealma mater, maybe we've lived in
the same cities, maybe we havethe same hobbies we like hiking,
we like hobbies, we like hiking, we like running, we like
traveling.
But this way, when I follow upwith somebody and I've seen this
like you go to a conference,after the conference people will
(40:33):
send you an email like oh, itwas a pleasure meeting you.
I hope we keep in touch.
And it's so generic that theycould copy and paste that to any
company, any employee that theymet during the conference.
But if they have a tailoredmessage based off our
conversation, all is so great tomeet you.
I always love meeting a fellowPenn State alumni, always so
(40:54):
great to meet a fellow personthat loves to travel.
And I hope your trip to SanDiego goes well, because we
talked about the fact that I wastraveling to San Diego or find
something to build thatconnection.
It goes so much further asopposed to just an Eric.
(41:14):
Hey, so great to meet you.
I hope we can keep in touch.
I'd love to work at yourcompany.
It's a world of difference.
Tim (41:22):
Exactly, and here's an example for me recently, I mean
just recently, so in November, Iwent to a networking event and
there was a CEO there who I knew.
Of him, I didn't know that hewas going to be there, and I
started talking to him and weliterally talked just him and I,
one-on-one, for about an hourand a half, which was great.
(41:46):
I mean, that was never myintention, and we got to talk
about some things.
And what I found out about himis he raises exotic birds.
Michael (41:57):
That's different.
Tim (41:58):
Very different.
So what do you think I did?
I took mental notes, notes, andthen afterwards because what I
do is I write it down I put itinto their contact so so that
you know no matter what I've gotit next day I sent him an email
.
It was great talking to you, um, and he lives in tampa and this
was like right after thehurricanes came through.
(42:18):
Hope the birds are going to beokay.
You know whatever.
I was at a conference in Januaryand I knew he was going to be
there, but it's one of those,you know, never expecting that
our paths were going to crossthere.
And he was with a bunch ofpeople and I was walking,
(42:39):
getting ready to walk past him,and he told that group of people
, hey, hold on a second.
And he came over and startedtalking to me and started asking
me about some of the thingsthat we talked about, and we
talked for 15 or 20 minuteswhile he left.
There's other people over thereand that's all because of a
connection, all because of alittle conversation, and now I'm
hoping that you know there'ssomething that we're gonna be
(42:59):
able to do together here soon.
Michael (43:06):
That's all it is.
It's about that connection.
Yeah, absolutely, that's afantastic story.
And then I do the same thingyou said with taking notes.
So I mean, we have our phonesat our disposal.
You could put it in the detailsfor the contact, you can put it
in your notes section of yourphone.
But if I have a conversationwith somebody, it's difficult.
(43:26):
At a networking event or aconference, you can meet
multiple people.
So if I take notes, I can putspecific things that I talked
about with different people thisperson is a Yankees fan, this
person likes to run, this personlikes to travel, this person's
also alumni from Penn state andthat way, when I follow up with
(43:47):
them, I can say specific thingsabout our conversation.
But, like you said, it's it'shard to at least for me to just
remember every, every nuance forevery person.
So taking notes is a great wayto go about it.
Tim (44:04):
And when you're talking to them you're not with your phone
out.
Oh no, you know it's, it's great.
And then you, essentially whatI do is is after that, you know
the very first thing I do whenit's over with I I take half
hour, 45 minutes and I I gothrough.
Um you, either if they've givenme a card, I go through and
(44:24):
write this stuff down, or nowyou know you can, there's the
electronic business cards.
I leave those up.
It's a lot easier for me to goin and just jot some things down
.
But but it's so critical to toremember some of those things,
some of those connections youknow later on down the road,
some of those things, some ofthose connections you know later
on down the road.
Michael (44:43):
Yeah, I, I.
I used to take the the sameroute as you.
So when I feel like handing outbusiness cards is kind of
declined a bit, but when peoplewere handing out business cards,
I would take a pen out right onthe back of the person's
business card.
So I have notes specificallyfor that person.
But, like you said, now there'sa lot of digital business cards
or people just want to scan theQR code on LinkedIn.
(45:06):
So now I'm trying to transitionmore to writing notes in my
phone.
But either way, whether you'rewriting it down on a business
card or in your phone, likethere has to be a way for you to
kind of capture those notes sothat you can remember that
person specifically for you tokind of capture those notes so
that you can remember thatperson specifically.
Tim (45:26):
So in your book, you know, you talk about a number of
different networking types ofthings that you did and
connections that you built.
What's your favorite networkingconnection that you've made
throughout your career?
Because you talk about the timeyou were at a baseball game in
Houston.
You talk about the time youwere at the barbershop, A couple
of others that I'm sure I'llremember here in 20 minutes.
(45:48):
But those types of things Ilove those things, because the
world is huge but it's so small.
So what's your favoritenetworking connection thing
that's ever happened to you?
Michael (46:06):
I'll tell you my favorite, probably when I was an
undergrad at Penn State, and atthat time, honestly, I didn't
even fully understand the powerof networking because I was
still an undergrad student.
But I'm a member of Kappa AlphaPsi fraternity and at the time
at Penn State I was alsopresident of an organization
(46:27):
called Black Male LeadershipSymposium.
So I put together an event oncampus and I built a
relationship with JP Morgan andI brought in a representative
from JP Morgan to speak to theorganizations on best practices,
what they're looking for incandidates, how you can stand
out.
So it's a good way for thestudents to learn, but it's a
(46:48):
good way for JP Morgan toidentify talent.
After the event it was such agreat event I had someone from
JP Morgan reach out who wasn't apart of the event, but they
heard about the event I puttogether and he happened to be a
member of my fraternity.
So I'd never met this personbefore.
(47:09):
But just based off the factthat we're in the same
fraternity and I put togetherthis event on campus, he reached
out to me.
So you know, we started talking.
He's like hey, I got yourinformation, I heard that you
put on this event, uh, and hewas like.
He basically said hey, would,would JP Morgan be something of
interest to you?
And obviously I'm a student,I'm looking to graduate and get
full-time opportunities.
(47:29):
So I told him, yes, of course,jp Morgan is one of the most
well-known companies in theworld.
So I was able to talk with him.
He took my resume, he helpedtailor my resume for the role.
He helped me prepare for theinterview.
Then I ended up getting an offerwith JP Morgan.
He connected me with anothermember of the fraternity who
(47:53):
received the same role, the sameoffer in the same location,
because I moved to Delaware.
I'd never been to Delawarebefore.
So now I have a friend inDelaware and a roommate before I
even moved there to a brand newcity.
I've never been before.
So now I have a friend inDelaware and a roommate before I
even moved there to a brand newcity I've never been before.
And when I get to Delawarethere's a network of people in
my fraternity that work inDelaware, that work in New York,
(48:14):
that work in Ohio, that work inFlorida and we would have calls
for the entire fraternity ofKappa Alpha Psi once a quarter,
for the entire fraternity ofKappa Alpha Psi once a quarter.
So now I have a support system.
This all started off of oneconnection because I set up an
event on campus and I wasconnected with one brother,
matthew Flamer.
My connection with MatthewFlamer is opened up the door
(48:38):
where I was able to interviewfor JP Morgan, get the role at
JP Morgan and have a supportsystem and a roommate and a
friend in a brand new city.
I've never been to all off ofone connection.
So for me it was crazy, it waseye-opening.
When I came out of school I waslike, oh, this is networking.
Like I probably wouldn't havestarted my career at JP Morgan
(49:02):
if it wasn't for my ability tonetwork and it's just so
happened to work out wherebasically every role at every
company I've had some type ofconnection that helped me get my
foot in the door.
Even today I work at Netscopein cybersecurity.
My manager today.
I used to work for him atAmazon.
(49:23):
I wasn't looking foropportunities at Netscope At the
time.
I was working at Walmart and hereached out to me but because I
kept him in my network he saidthere was an opportunity on his
team and he thought I'd be agreat fit and I was able to make
my transition to Netscope.
A lot of people ask me like howdid you get your foot in the
door in cybersecurity?
It's so hard to get in there.
Tenetsco A lot of people ask melike how did you get your foot
(49:44):
in the door in cybersecurity?
It's so hard to get in there?
It was my network.
I didn't know I was going to bein cybersecurity two years ago,
but having the right people inmy network opened up the right
doors.
But yeah, absolutely I wouldsay that situation when I was at
Penn State and making thattransition to JP Morgan, that's
my favorite networking story.
Tim (50:04):
That's awesome.
And again, like you said, ifthat doesn't happen, you may not
be sitting here.
Yeah, exactly, that was thestart of my career.
And it's funny, as you'retalking about that.
You know, at one point in mylife I did a ton of traveling
(50:24):
and the joke in the family wasyou can never, I could never go
to an airport where I didn't runinto somebody I knew and that
was actually true.
I mean, it didn't matter whatcity I was in, it didn't matter,
you know, what connection orwhere I was going there was.
Always I always ran intosomebody who I knew, and and and
(50:47):
again.
The world is huge, but it's butit's also small, and we have to
remember as, as professionals,people talk and if, if you're if
, if you treat people right,they're going to say good things
, and if you don't treat peopleright, they're going to say bad
(51:10):
things.
And that's when you startfinding out well, I can't, I'm
not getting promoted, I'm notgetting other job offers, I'm
not getting those things that Iwant.
You know, part of it is youneed to think about how, how you
are treating other people andhow you're coming across, and
are you actually surroundingyourself with people that are
going to help you get to whereyou want to be?
Michael (51:31):
No, that's uh.
I couldn't have worded itbetter myself.
That's one of the things I talkabout with people all the time
is personal brand.
How do you want to be perceivedwhen you walk in the room, when
you're part of a project, whenyou're part of a team?
But, like you said, the waythat you treat other people is
going to be a reflection ofyourself, the way that you
perform.
That's why, any team, anyproject, any initiative I'm
(51:54):
working on, I'm always puttingmy best foot forward.
I hate the term.
I don't know if you've heard ofquiet quitting, oh, yeah.
Yeah, I hate when I hear, hearthat where people are like, oh,
I'm not happy, here, I'm doingthe bare minimum, like that just
makes you look bad, like Iwould never do the big.
You never know if you're gonnasee these people again.
(52:14):
You can see them at anotherteam in the company.
You can see them at anothercompany altogether.
There are people I worked withat chevron that I also worked
with at amazon.
There are people I worked withat Amazon that I'm also working
with at Netscope.
You never know when you'regoing to cross paths again.
That perception, it'severything.
Tim (52:33):
You're either in or you're not.
If you don't want to be in,that's fine, perfectly fine.
Don't be in, but be aprofessional about it.
Michael (52:43):
Exactly.
Tim (52:43):
That's part of the thing.
So you know we talked a littlebit about your book.
Really, tell us about your bookand what it's about, and you
know the impetus of that,because I think it's a
phenomenal resource, you know,especially for young
professionals, but really foranybody who is questioning how
to move forward or maybe stuckin their professional career.
Michael (53:06):
Yeah, absolutely so.
My book is called the Power ofNetworking.
The core and the heart of it isobviously around building and
maintaining relationships and,to the point that we made
earlier, it's an impact on yourprofessional career.
It provides value in yourpersonal life.
But I also get into a lot ofother areas.
(53:28):
So I get into how todifferentiate yourself in
interviews, how to excel in yourrole, how to advance in your
career, how to transition froman individual contributor to a
people manager, how to navigateworkplace challenges.
A people manager, how tonavigate workplace challenges.
So I get into a lot of differentareas that are focused on your
career, growth and personaldevelopment.
But the heart of the book isfocused on building and
(53:52):
maintaining relationships andhow that can open up so many
doors for you and the benefitsof doing so.
So the book is available on allplatforms.
I have the e-book, I have thepaperback, I have the audio book
.
So whether you want to buy onAmazon, you want to listen on
Spotify, you want to read onBarnes Noble, it's available.
(54:13):
But, yeah, that's the core ofthe book.
Tim (54:17):
And again, I love it, I love the stories in it.
It really connects the dots andreally does hit home and I
again I think from a youngprofessional perspective it's a
great resource.
Do you have a second or thirdbook in mind?
Are you working on?
Maybe working on, maybe not?
Or one and done?
What do you think?
Michael (54:38):
I'm still thinking through that.
A lot of people have asked methat because of the success of
the first book, so they'realready, uh, asking for the
second.
I'm still I'm still in theideation phase to try to figure
out what I'd want to write next.
Uh, but I'd love to continue towrite more and publish more
books that's, that's awesome.
Tim (54:55):
I, I was a one and done um, I'm never, never say never, but
where I'm at right now, I'm one.
I would much rather talk topeople.
But anyway, where can peoplefind you if they want to work
with you?
Cause, cause, you're doingreally good, good things in the
space and I think you got a lotto offer people and helping them
(55:18):
get to where they want to be.
Michael (55:20):
Yeah, absolutely so.
So people can reach out to meon LinkedIn.
So my name on LinkedIn isMichael Morgan PMP.
I put PMP at the end of my namebecause I have the PMP
certification.
Uh, so that's the easy way tofind me.
Uh, I have my own website aswell.
So Michael V, as in Victor,Michael V, Morgancom.
Uh, so you can go on my websiteand then off my website.
(55:41):
I have a contact me form so youcan send me a message through
my website, or you can connectwith me on social media through
my website.
But those are probably the twobest channels that you can reach
out to me.
Tim (55:53):
And I'll put those links in the show notes, as well as
links to your book as well, foreverybody.
But, michael, thank you so muchfor taking some time and
talking with us today.
I think you provide outstandingvalue for the Speaking With
Confidence community and I can'tthank you enough for that, oh,
thank you.
Michael (56:11):
I appreciate the opportunity to be a guest on
your show.
I love Speaking With Confidence, so it's an honor to be here
speaking with you today.
Tim (56:18):
Thanks, bud, I appreciate it.
We'll talk to you soon Allright, sounds good.
Be sure to visitspeakingwithconfidencepodcastcom
to get your free ebook Top 21Challenges for Public Speakers
and how to Overcome them.
You can also register for theForum for Public Speaking.
Always remember your voice hasthe power to change the world.
We'll talk to you next time,take care.
Welcome to Speaking with Confidence, a podcast dedicated
to helping you unlock the powerof effective public speaking.
I'm Tim Newman, a recoveringcollege professor turned
communication coach, and I'mthrilled to guide you on a
journey to becoming a powerfulcommunicator.
I want to thank each and everyone of you for your support.
It truly means the world to me.
If you have questions or if youwant something covered on the
podcast, please send me a note.
(00:29):
Also, please visittimnewmanspeakscom to get your
free ebook the Top 21 Challengesfor Public Speakers and how to
Overcome them.
Today's guest is Michael Morgan.
Michael obtained his BS fromPenn State University and his
MBA from Carnegie MellonUniversity, coupled with his
educational background.
He has over 15 years of workexperience across companies such
(00:50):
as Amazon, walmart, jpmorgan,chase and Chevron.
He has a passion for teachingand inspiring others to achieve
their goals, which led him towrite his first book, the Power
of Networking, and begin hisjourney as a motivational
speaker.
To write his first book, thePower of Networking, and begin
his journey as a motivationalspeaker.
Michael, welcome to the show.
(01:11):
You know I love all my guests,but I just can't do the we are.
I just can't do it, but I'msorry.
Michael (01:18):
It's okay.
Tim (01:22):
I don't mind.
I spent a good portion of myprofessional career in
Pennsylvania.
The Penn State fans up thereare all over the world.
Really, penn State has a fanbase that's literally all over
the world, but in Pennsylvaniain particular, they're rabid.
They're everywhere and,honestly, when I look at
(01:42):
different fan bases, they reallyare one of the best.
They're not like Eagles fans Ihope you're not an Eagles fan,
okay but they really are one ofthe best.
Michael (01:53):
I absolutely agree.
Like you said, the alumni baseis so robust.
Personally, I've lived in NewYork, pennsylvania, delaware,
texas, washington, californiaand I mean anywhere that I moved
to.
I mean alumni have open arms.
There's always watch partiesfor football games any city, any
(02:16):
state that you go to, sothey've always been a great
support system for me.
Tim (02:20):
And you know what.
We'll get into that a littlebit as we go through this today
and you mentioned a lot of thatstuff in your book we're going
to talk about some networkingand how important networking
actually is.
A lot of times we talk aboutnetworking just from a
professional perspectiveperspective as well.
(02:46):
That I think is forgotten a lotand how important it is you
know to to to network, to buildyour, your, you know your, your
personal life as well and andyou've got some really good
examples in your book that thathopefully we'll get to, but to
me it's just just so important.
Michael (03:00):
Absolutely.
It's critical, like, like Isaid, I said I've moved around
to multiple states, multiplecities that I've never been to.
If I didn't have my supportsystem, if I wasn't able to
network I don't know build thatnetwork and they ended up moving
right back home.
And then also just personal itopens up the doors for
(03:30):
opportunities you wouldn't eventhink, not career wise, like, as
an example, I own twoproperties and people in my
network have reached out to meabout the opportunity to buy
properties.
One of the properties I ownI've never even seen the house.
Wow.
But the people in my networkhave opened up the door and told
me about these things.
I've invested in startups andit's not like there's a website
(03:54):
where you can go on and say, oh,I want to invest this many
thousands of dollars in thisstartup at a convertible note.
It's a closed circle and if youknow people, they can invite
you to invest in a startup.
So a lot of people in mynetwork have opened up doors for
me to build wealth outside ofmy career.
They've been a great supportsystem wherever I've moved to,
(04:16):
wherever I've lived.
So I completely agree, it's notjust about the professional
setting.
Tim (04:21):
And again, I think that's forgotten or we don't focus on
it because, you know, the focusis always on professional and
work and those types of thingsand there is that other side,
which I think there's good andbad there.
I think, because you get somuch variety of experience and
(04:49):
experience in different types ofthings, is there something that
you noticed in all of them thatthey're doing well in terms of
hiring and professionaldevelopment?
Because I think you know thosetypes of things, especially from
a young professional'sperspective, they don't even
really think about.
Michael (05:06):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I would say.
As far as hiring, they use alot, of, a vast amount of
channels to make sure they'regetting a diverse pool set of
talent that's coming into thecompany.
So a lot of the companies I'veworked for, they already have
partnerships with specificschools that they'll go on
campus and recruit fromregularly.
But they're also going todifferent conferences.
(05:27):
They'll go to Afrotech, they'llgo to National Black MBA,
they'll go to Lesbians who Tech,they'll go to Association of
Latin Professionals of America.
So there's differentconferences.
They go to veterans conferences.
So this way they're gettinggreat talent that has Black,
hispanic, native American, apart of the LGBTQ plus community
(05:48):
, former military veterans.
So I think by expanding thepool, using different recruiting
websites to find diverse talent, I think if you just focus on
one aspect of recruiting, you'renot going to find the talent
pool that you're looking for.
If you leverage multiplechannels, that way you can make
(06:10):
sure you're bringing a diversepool into your company and the
more diverse your employees aredifferent backgrounds, different
education, differentexperiences the more
well-rounded our ideas andapproach will be for any
strategy that we implement.
So when it comes to recruiting,I've personally loved what a
lot of the companies that I'veworked for have done making sure
(06:32):
that they're looking atdifferent channels to find the
right talent.
Tim (06:35):
Yeah, and you know, if you tie that into networking, you
know again, the more diverse thetalent pool is and the more
diverse the organizationalstructure is.
That also helps the youngprofessional from that
networking perspective.
Certain people aren't beingshut out because of narrow
(06:57):
hiring practices.
Let's just put it that way.
Michael (07:00):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely.
And I've seen some of thecompanies I've worked for.
They purposely try to make surethat the pool of interviewers
are diverse as well.
So to your point one, they'venoticed sometimes there's
unconscious bias.
(07:21):
Let's say, an interviewer comesin interviews with five
different people within thecompany and all five are of one
background and the intervieweris a completely different
background.
There could be a situation ofunconscious bias.
And then, secondly, they wantto make sure it's a good
interview experience, Right?
So if I'm interviewing and I'ma black man and I'm getting
interviewed by five people whodon't look like me, it may rub
(07:43):
me the wrong way and sway mydecision if I want to work for
that company or not.
So look at it from both sidesof the employer as well as the
potential employee.
I've seen a lot of companiesmaking sure that the interview
work pool is very diverse.
Tim (07:58):
So what are they doing in terms of professional
development?
That is good Because, again,that's something that, from a
young professional perspective,you start looking for your first
job and number one, you're notalways looking at what the
benefits of different companiesare and those types of things.
They're looking at salary,they're looking at time off,
maybe they're looking at healthinsurance, they're not looking
(08:20):
at retirement benefits, notlooking at all the other things
that some companies are doing.
And I think professionaldevelopment is one of the things
that people really should belooking at, because you know we
want you know, at least from myperspective, I want to be able
to help our people grow so thatthey can move up and move on and
(08:40):
reach the levels that theyactually want to teach, or that
they actually want to teach orthey actually want to get to.
Michael (08:46):
Oh yeah, absolutely so.
From a professional developmentstandpoint, basically every
company I've worked for theyoffer trainings.
There's always some type ofeither LinkedIn learnings or
Udemy Coursera.
There's usually some freetrainings that I can take to get
up to speed either in theindustry or in my specific
function, so I'm always takingtrainings.
(09:08):
There's usually a budget forprofessional development in most
of these companies, which hasallowed me to go to different
conferences.
In order for my growth.
I can go to conferences andlearn from breakout sessions
from keynote speakers.
I've been able to get differentcertifications.
All my companies have paid forit.
So I have a Lean Sigma BlackBelt certification.
(09:29):
I have a contract andcommercial management
certification.
I have a Tableau desktopcertification.
I have a project managementprofessional certification.
I haven't paid for any of them.
Tim (09:39):
How awesome is that?
I mean, those things arecrucial and critical for growth,
right, and not just because,again, let's back up.
It's not just professionalgrowth, it's personal growth.
Let's just say some of thestuff you may never use and you
may use it.
You may not, but you'relearning new things, and just by
(10:01):
learning new things, how thatopens other doors for you.
Michael (10:07):
Yeah, absolutely it.
It it definitely opens up otherdoors for you and companies are
willing to invest in yourpersonal development.
If you, if, if they invest inyou and you become a stronger
employee and you're better ableto do your job, you can help the
company perform better.
So there's generally funds toallow for professional
development.
You just have to ask thequestions.
(10:28):
A lot of people in my networkare surprised when I tell them
all the trainings I've taken,all the certifications, all the
conferences I've been to, I waslike, did you ask your manager
Generally, if you're willing toask the questions, they're
willing to expense it and fundit for you.
I think a lot of people arejust scared to ask the questions
.
Tim (10:44):
They're willing to expense it and fund it for you.
I think a lot of people arejust scared to ask the questions
.
Yeah, and I do want to get intothat.
I come from a sport backgroundand one of the analogies I
always talk about is from aticket sales perspective, and I
can't remember the specificnumber.
But it costs so much less torenew a season ticket holder
than it does to go out and finda new one.
And it's the same thing inbusinesses and organizations.
(11:07):
It costs so much less to treatemployees well, to give them the
things that they need to besuccessful, than it is to have
to go out and hire somebody andtrain them so that they can, you
know, fit in.
You know, to me, it's aboutmaking sure that we're.
It's about relationships andmaking sure that we're taking
care of people.
Michael (11:28):
Yeah, no, I absolutely agree.
And on on top of that you'reyou're talking about the cost,
but the time as well.
If, if I lose an employee andnow I have to go through the
interview process, I have tocreate a rec, then I have to go
through the interview process.
It could take me three plusmonths just to interview
candidates to find the rightcandidate, and then it might
(11:50):
take me another three to sixmonths for the candidate to ramp
up and get comfortable in therole where they can actually
start performing, as opposed toif I just kept the employee
happy and had them in there, Iwouldn't have that low of nine
months to a year where I'mtrying to find another candidate
to backfill that role and getthem up to speed and get them
(12:11):
acclimated.
So I completely agree and I'm apeople manager myself and I try
to build a culture of inclusionand try to make sure that
employees feel valued andappreciated and informed to keep
them happy.
So, regardless whether theystay on my team or not, they
should be happy within thecompany and they're not looking
(12:32):
for other opportunities outsideof the company.
Tim (12:37):
Right.
And here's the other thing withthat, michael, and everything's
about relationships, I don'tcare.
It's AI, this AI, that IT, youknow what.
Everything is going to comedown to your personal
relationships and those types ofconnections and, as leaders,
(12:57):
you nailed it.
And even if let's just say, wegive this person everything that
we can and they're happy, andat some some point it's okay to
let them go because we may nothave a role for them to ascend
to, and if you know what, gofind it and hopefully in the
(13:18):
near future we can have a rolefor you.
I mean, obviously we're nottrying to push people out the
door.
Obviously, we want to make surewe can do everything that we
possibly can to keep them, butyou know, at the end of the day,
there's only so many roles thatcan be filled and if you're
ready to go, you know whatAwesome Congratulations, and
(13:40):
that also says something about acompany.
You know we did everything thatwe could and there's that good
relationship and we would loveto have you back, and then that
person is going to go and talkto their friends and their
network.
You know what this really is atruly good company to work for.
They've got great people there.
They've done all of thesethings in a positive way.
They have no negative words atall, and that says a lot.
Michael (14:05):
Yeah, absolutely, and I've.
I've seen both sides of thespectrum.
I've seen managers who've saidthings behind an employee's back
to block their transfers toother teams because they they
had their own intrinsic interestand want to keep a strong
player on their team.
Obviously the employee foundout they're leaving anyway.
(14:28):
So a lot of times I tell people, like, put yourself in your
employee's shoes, like if youwere in their same situation
you'd want the support from yourmanager.
If there's no role for them togrow into and get to that next
level, you know, support themhowever you can to make sure
they get into that role.
Like, don't don't try to stiflesomebody and just keep them on
your team, for for your sake youhave to do what's best for your
(14:51):
employees.
Tim (14:52):
So you know I'm also a big, a huge proponent in preparation
and, um, as I was going throughyour book, you know you talk
about that a lot, which I reallyenjoyed.
But you talk about interviewpreparation and then, if you
prepare the same way for eachcompany, you set yourself up for
failure.
(15:13):
What are some examples ofdifferent ways that you know
Amazon, jp Morgan, chevron thatyou would need to prepare
differently?
Michael (15:23):
Yeah, absolutely so.
As an example, amazon hasleadership principles.
The whole interview process isfocused around their leadership
principles.
Okay, so you need to know alltheir leadership principles and
you need to tie in your storiesand be able to tie them into
leadership principles and showthat you're a good fit for the
culture at Amazon.
(15:43):
So that's, that's the stylethat Amazon specifically uses
for interviews.
Chevron is big on safety.
Their their motto is the theChevron way and they do things
the right way every single time.
So a lot of my like interviewresponses when I was talking
with Chevron is being ethicaland make sure I'm doing things
the right way and how importantsafety is to me.
(16:05):
So I mean, if I, if I went intothe Amazon interview, focused
on safety and ethical, like likeAmazon's focused on leisure
principles, if I went intoChevron, focused on leisure
principles, that's not whatChevron wants.
So so, making sure youunderstand what each company is
looking for and then, on top ofthat, understanding the culture
(16:30):
and why you want to work forthat specific company.
I've seen so many people stumbleon why do you want to work for
this company?
And they'll just give a genericoh, you're a big company,
you're the biggest company inoil and gas.
You're the biggest company intech and it's like there are a
lot of big companies in tech.
You could say that for Amazon,google, apple, meta, like that
(16:53):
doesn't show that you want towork for Amazon, so it's
definitely important that you'recatering, you're understanding
what each company is looking for, because everyone's different,
even Google.
I haven't worked for Google.
I know some of my friends havetold me Google does a lot of
case questions and theoreticalquestions.
So if you don't put in the duediligence to understand how the
(17:16):
interview process is for eachcompany, you are going to hurt
yourself and it's going to bedetrimental to your
opportunities.
Tim (17:24):
Yeah, and again it comes back to that preparation and
doing the work, and I thinkthat's something that and I, you
know, I always have focused onyoung professionals here but and
I'm sure that happens a lotmore than I would like to think
it does but I think from a youngprofessional perspective, they
(17:46):
don't truly understand thatprocess and the competition that
they're up against and and howthey have to figure out how to
stand out from that competition.
I mean cause, even if let'sjust say I mean you, you've been
here, right, you've got 35students in a class.
That's just in that one class.
(18:16):
What about the other 15sections?
What about the other 30institutions in the state minded
?
And they have to really kind ofopen their eyes up and say,
okay, look, here's an example.
I used to tell my students thatI'm one in a million.
They could find somebody tocome in here and replace me,
like that.
It's my job to figure out howI'm actually different and why
(18:42):
I'm here.
And when you go out and youstart looking, you've got to
figure those things out too.
And it's hard for them tounderstand it until they
actually get out there and theysee.
Well, you know, I applied for15 jobs.
I didn't get any calls back.
Well, there's probably reasonfor that.
Let's sit down and take a lookat it, but that's happening
(19:03):
millions of times every dayacross the country.
Michael (19:07):
Yeah, absolutely so.
I've.
I have examples, just like you.
So, as an example, when I wasat Chevron, I would do
recruiting for the company atNational Black MBA every year.
To give you context, theconference National Black MBA
has about 10,000 attendees everyyear.
For the procurement supplychain program that I was
(19:30):
interviewing for, we had 10interview slots and we gave one
offer.
Wow.
So you can imagine I havehundreds, if not thousands, of
people that are showing interestin this interview.
We have 10 slots, we give oneoffer.
It's definitely competitive.
You have to differentiateyourself.
And then to your point.
(19:50):
That's one of the reasons thatI do I'm big into professional
development.
You have to differentiateyourself, professional
development.
You have to differentiateyourself when I'm applying for
roles at different companies andthey see okay, not only does he
have his undergraduate degree,he also has his MBA.
He also has four certifications.
He also has work experience atthese different companies.
(20:11):
Well, now I've set myself apartbecause everybody that's
applying for these roles doesn'thave their graduate degree.
Everyone's applying for theseroles doesn't have these
certifications.
So I'm continuing to grow anddevelop and add new skill sets.
That's going to differentiatemyself from other candidates.
It's just so important.
Tim (20:30):
Let me ask you about Amazon here for a second, because
again, I didn't want the wholeinterview to be about your book,
but I love the book.
I mean, I love it, Thank you.
So you talk about leadershipprinciples and one of those
principles was disagree andcommit and that really resonated
(20:55):
with me.
Michael (20:59):
Walk us through what the disagree and commit
leadership principle was or is.
Yeah, so, and working at Amazonopened my eyes, so I love the
experience.
But essentially, disagree andcommit.
You're empowered to challengepeople.
So what I've seen at othercompanies before I joined Amazon
(21:20):
like you'll go into a meeting,someone shares an idea, people
may feel that they don't havethe confidence or they don't
have the power, the title, theauthority to disagree and we'll
sit in a room, someone shares anidea and everyone just kind of
nods.
It's groupthink.
Everyone wants to be likable.
So, even though you may notagree with the idea, I don't
(21:41):
want to challenge someone to rubthem the wrong way and then we
just move forward with an idea,whether we like it or not,
because we just don't want torub people the wrong way.
At Amazon, disagree and commit.
(22:02):
If you don't agree withsomeone's idea, it doesn't
matter what your title is, itdoesn't matter what your level
is.
You are empowered to speak up.
It's your responsibility tospeak up and there's nothing
wrong with disagreeing withsomeone.
It's how you go about doing it.
So if I don't agree withsomeone's idea I've seen this in
(22:23):
meetings.
But I've seen a meeting someonedoesn't agree with the idea and
they just say, oh, that's adumb idea, like that's not
constructive.
Like to just say it's a dumbidea, like that's that's not
good.
But at Amazon, if I don't agreewith someone's idea, I may say,
hey, can we take a step back?
I have some concerns from afinancial standpoint.
Do we have the budget to moveforward with this?
(22:45):
What's the return on investment?
So I've shown that I hadconcerns and I've expressed what
I'm concerned about.
And now that person thatproposed the idea, they can go
back and do their due diligenceand do the analysis from a
finance standpoint to make surewe have the budget and calculate
what's the return on investment.
Or I may say hey, you know thissounds great.
Did you speak to legal?
(23:06):
Are we covered from a legalperspective?
I don't know if we can feasiblydo this and that person will go
back and do the due diligenceand make sure they follow up
with legal.
So you can express yourconcerns, you can do so in a
constructive way and by speakingup and voicing your opinion.
Now we're making sure that we'rethinking through all different
(23:27):
scenarios so we can reach thebest decision, the best strategy
, which is the value ofchallenging people.
And then the disagree andcommit part is I can disagree.
Ultimately, when we make adecision, we're all committed to
that decision.
So I've challenged you, we'vedone the due diligence, you've
(23:48):
answered my follow-up questionsand once we get to a point where
we have a go no-go decision andwe move forward with that
strategy, we're all committed tothat strategy strategy.
We're all committed to thatstrategy.
So it's for me.
It was very eyeopening howeveryone is empowered to speak
up and, like you're, you're inthe room for a reason.
There's a reason you wereinvited to this meeting.
(24:08):
Voice your opinion.
Don't, don't just sit in theback and be a fly on the wall.
I was told.
If you're, if you're invited tomeetings and you're the person
that sits in the back anddoesn't speak up at a certain
point, you're probably going tostop being invited to the
meeting.
You're not adding any value.
You're brought to the meetingfor a reason.
Share your thoughts, speak up.
Tim (24:30):
So much to unpack there, and if young professionals could
get that, could get that, that.
It's okay to ask questions,it's okay to challenge, you know
, it truly is okay.
And I think there's a number ofthings that people need to look
(24:51):
at, and I think one of thereasons why this resonated with
me is because this is verysimilar to the whole idea of
don't leave the tent, and that'smy philosophy.
We're going to go in the tentand we're going to discuss it
and we're going to go back andforth, and back and forth, but
once we leave the tent, like yousaid, this is what it is, and
(25:11):
there's no bad mouth and there'sno talk.
This is what the organizationis committed to and we're going
to go at it and give it our 100%effort to it, but inside the
tent, that's where thediscussion happens, that's where
the back and forth happens andagain, there's a respectful way
to do it.
This is dumb.
It doesn't, like I said, doesnot add value at all.
(25:35):
I mean it's about how you askthe questions.
It's about the entire processof that, and that really
requires everybody to understand.
They've got to put their egoaside because it's not personal.
This is about what's best forthe team, the organization,
whatever it is that we'retalking about, and what's best
for them to move it forward andunderstand as an individual.
(25:58):
What's best for theorganization may not be what's
best for you at that time andyou have to accept that
sometimes it's gonna be what'sbest for you, sometimes it's not
, and that's part of being ateam yeah, absolutely, and I try
to.
Michael (26:13):
I try to tell people that all the time I think you
bring up a good point, don'ttake take it personal.
I've seen people havestrategies, ideas.
They'll present it in apresentation or through a paper.
Amazon's big on paper writing.
They don't do presentations.
So I mean different companieshave different methods where you
present your ideas.
But if their idea gets shotdown they kind of turn into a
(26:35):
shell and now they feel hurt,Like oh, I was attacked and this
is nothing on you personally.
We're trying to figure outwhat's best for the business,
what's best for the organization.
We only have so much money, weonly have so many resources.
There are a hundred or athousand projects we could be
working on.
We have to figure out what isthe most critical items that's
(26:57):
going to add the most value tothe customer.
You have to figure out what isthe most critical items that's
going to add the most value tothe customer.
So if you don't provide goodjustification and support that
your idea is the best pathforward and what should be
implemented and the way itshould be implemented, we're
going to push back.
But to your point, I tellpeople all the time you can't
take it personal.
(27:17):
This is about business.
We're trying to figure outwhat's best for the organization
and what's best for the company.
If they turn down your idea,it's not a knock on you
specifically.
Tim (27:27):
And from that perspective as well, it goes back to
preparation.
So if you're invited to ameeting on XYZ number one, you
need to be prepared to go in andtalk about XYZ Number one.
You need to be prepared to goin and talk about X, y, z and be
able to have that back andforth about.
You know.
This is my question on why andI don't see how this really does
(27:48):
connect X and Z.
Can somebody explain that?
Michael (28:12):
no-transcript.
I think preparation is key.
So anytime that I'm coming upwith an idea or a strategy on
how to resolve a problem, I'mreaching out to my team members
for feedback.
I'm reaching out to some of mycolleagues in different
functions.
I'm asking for feedback fromfinance, from legal, from
(28:32):
product, from engineering,because people will have
different perspectives thatmaybe I didn't take in
consideration and that way I'mbetter prepared.
I've talked to people indifferent functions.
I have different mindsets,different thoughts of how to
approach it.
One of the things I love toAmazon they try to get you to
write a FAQ document, frequentlyasked questions before you even
(28:55):
go with your strategy.
So I'm already thinking aboutwhat questions will they ask
when I present this and I'malready thought through how I
would answer those questions ifthey do ask it.
So that all goes intopreparation.
But preparation is key.
Tim (29:12):
You know again.
That just made me think aboutsomething.
You know, the FAQ document.
Amazon doesn't become Amazon bydoing things.
See their pants fly by night,right?
Yeah, because that is so.
I mean it's brilliant, but it'sreally common sense.
(29:33):
If you're going to beimplementing something new, you
know people are going to havequestions about it.
Let's figure out what thosequestions are going to be, that
way they can be answered.
We can get a little bit deeperand what those questions are
going to be.
And now, amazon is Amazon,apple is Apple, google is Google
, and they don't just makepolicies and decisions like that
(29:54):
.
Oh, let's give this a try,let's see if it works.
It's not good business and youknow, we as, as individuals,
have to to be able to, to tothink on that when a different
level and that's where the wholeidea of critical thinking comes
into play and and how we goabout our communication style as
well.
Michael (30:14):
Yeah, no, I absolutely agree it's.
It's so important and, like yousaid, I think so many people
just kind of overlook it, but itcan make such a big impact on
your career.
Tim (30:27):
So you know we talked about differentiating ourselves.
You know what are some ideas orsome things that you could tell
.
You know young professionals tobe able to differentiate, to be
able to differentiatethemselves when they go to those
conferences, when they go tonetworking events, and you know
(30:47):
you're just having conversationswith people.
Michael (30:50):
Yeah.
So I would say a few things.
So one if you're going to aconference, I tell people to go
in with a strategy.
So it goes to what we werediscussing with preparation.
So, like I said, I've been toconferences searching for a job.
I've been to conferences doingrecruiting and I've seen at
conferences people justaimlessly walking around.
They have no plan.
(31:11):
They'll talk to differentcompanies what do you have for
me?
What kind of roles do you have?
And it's a terrible strategyLike why did you even invest
your time and money to go tothis conference?
You didn't do the research ofwhat companies would be there,
what roles they have.
If you go into a conference witha strategy and say and
(31:31):
generally, I'd like to go inwith a mindset of a top five
companies, so I'll have fivecompanies that I know I want to
speak to and I'm doing researchon what roles they have
available.
And when the conference doorsopen, I'm making an effort to go
to those specific companies andtalk to them and show hey, I'm
really interested in yourprocurement supply chain program
(31:52):
.
I know you have the leadershipdevelopment program.
I think I'm a great fit.
I'm an MBA student at CarnegieMellon.
I'm focusing on strategy andsupply chain.
I'd love to talk to you more.
So it shows that I've done mydue diligence.
I came to this conferencespecifically interested in that
company, in that role, and I'msaying how I'm a good fit for
that role, as opposed to justwalking around and I hear people
(32:16):
like, oh yeah, I'm going tothis conference, I'm trying to
talk to 15 companies, 20companies.
If you throw out too wide of anet, you're not going to get
anything.
If you focus a little bit moreand narrow down your search and
know exactly who you want totalk to and what roles you want,
I think you'll stand out a lotmore at conferences.
So I think that's a good way todifferentiate yourself.
(32:36):
Show up early.
If a conference is two days,three days, I've seen people
walk up to my table on thesecond day, the third day, oh
yeah, I'm really interested inyour roles.
Well, we've already filled allthe interview slots.
So if you were reallyinterested, you would have
showed up the first day, up thefirst day.
(33:03):
I think it speaks volumes thatyou show up early and the doors
open at nine and I'm talking tothe companies I want to talk to
at 9.30, 10.
So I think that speaks volumes.
And then I'd say at networkingevents, the way to differentiate
yourself, just put yourself outthere.
I see a lot of people atnetworking events.
They already know a few peopleand they kind of gravitate
towards a group that theyalready know and don't really
(33:25):
interact or try to meet newpeople.
I try to make it a point if I'mat a networking event and I
know people, obviously I'll sayhi, I'm not going to just
completely ignore them and actlike I don't know who they are,
or they'll act like I don't knowwho they are, but I'll make it
a point to try to break awayfrom the people I know and try
to meet someone new.
That's the purpose of the event, so that I can build my network
(33:46):
and meet new individuals.
But I'll already, before I getto a network, I'll have in mind
things that I'll want to talkabout, depending on what the
networking event is.
If I'm at a networking eventthat's cyber security focused,
because I work in the cybersecurity field, I'll have topics
in mind that are cyber securityfocused, that that I know I can
(34:07):
talk about.
Or if I'm just at a generalnetworking event, like I'll,
I'll think of all right, what'sthe?
The last few things that I'vedone the last couple weeks, a
couple months.
Where have I traveled?
To what you know what would begood conversation starters.
So it's not an awkward momentwhere we're just standing there
looking at each other and notsaying anything.
(34:28):
So the hope is that,organically, we'll have a good
conversation but already havetalking points in my back pocket
that I can bring up to keep theconversation going if there's a
lull.
But that, like I said, that allgoes into preparation and it's
a good way to help differentiatemyself and make me stand out.
Tim (34:49):
Networking events.
For me as an introvert, it'sdeath.
I mean I hate going to them.
But here's the other thing as aprofessional, I understand that
those are some things that youhave to do, right, and you can't
go in.
Oh, this is death.
I've got to go talk to people.
You actually have to go in likea professional and do the
(35:11):
things that professionals do.
And so I'm kind of like you.
If I go to an event and I knowpeople there, I say you know
what, I'll catch up with youlater.
I'm kind of like you.
If I go to an event and I knowpeople there, I say you know
what, I'll catch up with youlater.
I'm going to try, I've got togo and try and talk to this
person, or I want to talk tothat person.
We can catch up later,afterwards, grab a drink or what
have you, but let me go dowhatever first.
(35:31):
So, again, like you said,you're not just blowing them off
, but you're there for specificreasons.
And again, I like your wholeidea of preparing and having
things in your back pocket thatyou can talk about ahead of time
.
What do you think aboutelevator?
(35:52):
You know so-called elevatorspeeches, elevator talks?
Michael (35:57):
I think elevator pitches are fantastic.
I would say in my opinion thoseare better for conferences as
opposed to a networking event.
At a networking event I'd wantjust a little bit more organic
conversation At a conference, ifthere are thousands of people
at a conference that are alltrying to talk to companies and
get job opportunities, you mayonly have a quick 30 seconds
(36:22):
where you can make an impressionon a recruiter, a company, to
get further conversations aboutthe potential of interviewing
for a role.
So if you're not prepared, it'sgoing to be a bad reflection on
you.
So I still remember my elevatorpitch.
I practiced it so much when Iwas in grad school.
(36:43):
I would go.
I'd say hey, my name is MichaelMorgan.
I'm a first year MBA student atthe Temple School of Business
at Carnegie Mellon University.
I'm concentrating in operationstrategy and organizational
behavior.
My previous work experience isat JP Morgan.
I'm greatly interested in yoursupply chain procurement program
and I'd love to talk to youabout it further.
Tim (37:00):
There you go.
Michael (37:00):
That's personal.
Yeah, and in a 30 second I'vegiven them hey, this is my
background.
I worked at JP Morgan.
I'm concentrating in operations, I'm interested in this program
, I'm going to this school.
And now it just sparked so manyquestions like oh, you're going
to Carnegie Mellon, how do youlike in Pittsburgh?
What made you decide you wantto concentrate in operations and
strategy?
(37:21):
What makes you interested inwanting to work at Chevron?
The ball just gets rolling fromthere.
But if I would have walked up toChevron's booth and just said,
hey, I'm Michael, what do youguys have to offer?
It completely changes theconversation.
The recruiters will look at melike this person clearly isn't
(37:43):
prepared.
They, I don't think they'reinterested in chevron.
They don't even know what wehave to offer.
They haven't done any research.
Like they haven't pulled me inwith their elevator pitch.
And they may talk to me for aminute and then they'll move on
to the next candidate.
Yeah, but if you have a goodelevator pitch and I've I've
experienced this you have a goodelevator pitch, you can end up
talking to that person for 30minutes or an hour.
(38:05):
Yeah, so it could be thedifference of a one or two
minute conversation versus a 30minute conversation and that
could really impact whether ornot you get the interview or you
even get the job right.
One of the things I tell peoplethere are a lot of when a role
is open, more than one personhas the skill set to do the job.
People aren't just hiring whocan do the job, they're hiring
(38:28):
who can they see themselvesworking with on a day to day
basis.
So if you're able to have agood conversation, if you're at
a conference with thousands ofpeople and you have a recruiter
or an employee at a companyremember you specifically
because you had a greatconversation for 30 minutes,
that's going to help you standout.
Exactly so it makes and, like Isaid, if you don't have that
(38:52):
elevator pitch down, you may noteven open up the door for that
30 minute conversation.
So it's definitely important.
Tim (39:00):
And let's take that, you know, one step further.
You know, from that networkingperspective, right, you know,
obviously elevator pitch, Ithink, are critical, I think you
need to be flexible with it and, you know, depending on who
you're talking to, where you'reat, you know, throw this in,
take that out, throw that inwhatever.
But networking isn't just aboutyou going up and talking to
(39:23):
people.
It's about buildingrelationships and connections,
right, it's about findingsomething that you connect with
that other person so that thenext time that you either reach
out to them or the next timeyour paths cross Michael, you
(39:43):
know you talked about beingCarnegie Mellon in Pittsburgh
Did you go to that restaurantthat I told you to?
Did you ever go to?
I don't know?
Pick a restaurant?
Or how's your wife, you know?
You told me that she was, youknow, starting a business or
kids or whatever it is.
And it's about building thoseconnections and building that
(40:05):
relationship.
It's not just about a one-waytransaction of you trying to
sell yourself.
Michael (40:10):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
And I tell people all the time.
I try to find commonalities.
So maybe we went to the samealma mater, maybe we've lived in
the same cities, maybe we havethe same hobbies we like hiking,
we like hobbies, we like hiking, we like running, we like
traveling.
But this way, when I follow upwith somebody and I've seen this
like you go to a conference,after the conference people will
(40:33):
send you an email like oh, itwas a pleasure meeting you.
I hope we keep in touch.
And it's so generic that theycould copy and paste that to any
company, any employee that theymet during the conference.
But if they have a tailoredmessage based off our
conversation, all is so great tomeet you.
I always love meeting a fellowPenn State alumni, always so
(40:54):
great to meet a fellow personthat loves to travel.
And I hope your trip to SanDiego goes well, because we
talked about the fact that I wastraveling to San Diego or find
something to build thatconnection.
It goes so much further asopposed to just an Eric.
(41:14):
Hey, so great to meet you.
I hope we can keep in touch.
I'd love to work at yourcompany.
It's a world of difference.
Tim (41:22):
Exactly, and here's an example for me recently, I mean
just recently, so in November, Iwent to a networking event and
there was a CEO there who I knew.
Of him, I didn't know that hewas going to be there, and I
started talking to him and weliterally talked just him and I,
one-on-one, for about an hourand a half, which was great.
(41:46):
I mean, that was never myintention, and we got to talk
about some things.
And what I found out about himis he raises exotic birds.
Michael (41:57):
That's different.
Tim (41:58):
Very different.
So what do you think I did?
I took mental notes, notes, andthen afterwards because what I
do is I write it down I put itinto their contact so so that
you know no matter what I've gotit next day I sent him an email
.
It was great talking to you, um, and he lives in tampa and this
was like right after thehurricanes came through.
(42:18):
Hope the birds are going to beokay.
You know whatever.
I was at a conference in Januaryand I knew he was going to be
there, but it's one of those,you know, never expecting that
our paths were going to crossthere.
And he was with a bunch ofpeople and I was walking,
(42:39):
getting ready to walk past him,and he told that group of people
, hey, hold on a second.
And he came over and startedtalking to me and started asking
me about some of the thingsthat we talked about, and we
talked for 15 or 20 minuteswhile he left.
There's other people over thereand that's all because of a
connection, all because of alittle conversation, and now I'm
hoping that you know there'ssomething that we're gonna be
(42:59):
able to do together here soon.
Michael (43:06):
That's all it is.
It's about that connection.
Yeah, absolutely, that's afantastic story.
And then I do the same thingyou said with taking notes.
So I mean, we have our phonesat our disposal.
You could put it in the detailsfor the contact, you can put it
in your notes section of yourphone.
But if I have a conversationwith somebody, it's difficult.
(43:26):
At a networking event or aconference, you can meet
multiple people.
So if I take notes, I can putspecific things that I talked
about with different people thisperson is a Yankees fan, this
person likes to run, this personlikes to travel, this person's
also alumni from Penn state andthat way, when I follow up with
(43:47):
them, I can say specific thingsabout our conversation.
But, like you said, it's it'shard to at least for me to just
remember every, every nuance forevery person.
So taking notes is a great wayto go about it.
Tim (44:04):
And when you're talking to them you're not with your phone
out.
Oh no, you know it's, it's great.
And then you, essentially whatI do is is after that, you know
the very first thing I do whenit's over with I I take half
hour, 45 minutes and I I gothrough.
Um you, either if they've givenme a card, I go through and
(44:24):
write this stuff down, or nowyou know you can, there's the
electronic business cards.
I leave those up.
It's a lot easier for me to goin and just jot some things down
.
But but it's so critical to toremember some of those things,
some of those connections youknow later on down the road,
some of those things, some ofthose connections you know later
on down the road.
Michael (44:43):
Yeah, I, I.
I used to take the the sameroute as you.
So when I feel like handing outbusiness cards is kind of
declined a bit, but when peoplewere handing out business cards,
I would take a pen out right onthe back of the person's
business card.
So I have notes specificallyfor that person.
But, like you said, now there'sa lot of digital business cards
or people just want to scan theQR code on LinkedIn.
(45:06):
So now I'm trying to transitionmore to writing notes in my
phone.
But either way, whether you'rewriting it down on a business
card or in your phone, likethere has to be a way for you to
kind of capture those notes sothat you can remember that
person specifically for you tokind of capture those notes so
that you can remember thatperson specifically.
Tim (45:26):
So in your book, you know, you talk about a number of
different networking types ofthings that you did and
connections that you built.
What's your favorite networkingconnection that you've made
throughout your career?
Because you talk about the timeyou were at a baseball game in
Houston.
You talk about the time youwere at the barbershop, A couple
of others that I'm sure I'llremember here in 20 minutes.
(45:48):
But those types of things Ilove those things, because the
world is huge but it's so small.
So what's your favoritenetworking connection thing
that's ever happened to you?
Michael (46:06):
I'll tell you my favorite, probably when I was an
undergrad at Penn State, and atthat time, honestly, I didn't
even fully understand the powerof networking because I was
still an undergrad student.
But I'm a member of Kappa AlphaPsi fraternity and at the time
at Penn State I was alsopresident of an organization
(46:27):
called Black Male LeadershipSymposium.
So I put together an event oncampus and I built a
relationship with JP Morgan andI brought in a representative
from JP Morgan to speak to theorganizations on best practices,
what they're looking for incandidates, how you can stand
out.
So it's a good way for thestudents to learn, but it's a
(46:48):
good way for JP Morgan toidentify talent.
After the event it was such agreat event I had someone from
JP Morgan reach out who wasn't apart of the event, but they
heard about the event I puttogether and he happened to be a
member of my fraternity.
So I'd never met this personbefore.
(47:09):
But just based off the factthat we're in the same
fraternity and I put togetherthis event on campus, he reached
out to me.
So you know, we started talking.
He's like hey, I got yourinformation, I heard that you
put on this event, uh, and hewas like.
He basically said hey, would,would JP Morgan be something of
interest to you?
And obviously I'm a student,I'm looking to graduate and get
full-time opportunities.
(47:29):
So I told him, yes, of course,jp Morgan is one of the most
well-known companies in theworld.
So I was able to talk with him.
He took my resume, he helpedtailor my resume for the role.
He helped me prepare for theinterview.
Then I ended up getting an offerwith JP Morgan.
He connected me with anothermember of the fraternity who
(47:53):
received the same role, the sameoffer in the same location,
because I moved to Delaware.
I'd never been to Delawarebefore.
So now I have a friend inDelaware and a roommate before I
even moved there to a brand newcity.
I've never been before.
So now I have a friend inDelaware and a roommate before I
even moved there to a brand newcity I've never been before.
And when I get to Delawarethere's a network of people in
my fraternity that work inDelaware, that work in New York,
(48:14):
that work in Ohio, that work inFlorida and we would have calls
for the entire fraternity ofKappa Alpha Psi once a quarter,
for the entire fraternity ofKappa Alpha Psi once a quarter.
So now I have a support system.
This all started off of oneconnection because I set up an
event on campus and I wasconnected with one brother,
matthew Flamer.
My connection with MatthewFlamer is opened up the door
(48:38):
where I was able to interviewfor JP Morgan, get the role at
JP Morgan and have a supportsystem and a roommate and a
friend in a brand new city.
I've never been to all off ofone connection.
So for me it was crazy, it waseye-opening.
When I came out of school I waslike, oh, this is networking.
Like I probably wouldn't havestarted my career at JP Morgan
(49:02):
if it wasn't for my ability tonetwork and it's just so
happened to work out wherebasically every role at every
company I've had some type ofconnection that helped me get my
foot in the door.
Even today I work at Netscopein cybersecurity.
My manager today.
I used to work for him atAmazon.
(49:23):
I wasn't looking foropportunities at Netscope At the
time.
I was working at Walmart and hereached out to me but because I
kept him in my network he saidthere was an opportunity on his
team and he thought I'd be agreat fit and I was able to make
my transition to Netscope.
A lot of people ask me like howdid you get your foot in the
door in cybersecurity?
It's so hard to get in there.
Tenetsco A lot of people ask melike how did you get your foot
(49:44):
in the door in cybersecurity?
It's so hard to get in there?
It was my network.
I didn't know I was going to bein cybersecurity two years ago,
but having the right people inmy network opened up the right
doors.
But yeah, absolutely I wouldsay that situation when I was at
Penn State and making thattransition to JP Morgan, that's
my favorite networking story.
Tim (50:04):
That's awesome.
And again, like you said, ifthat doesn't happen, you may not
be sitting here.
Yeah, exactly, that was thestart of my career.
And it's funny, as you'retalking about that.
You know, at one point in mylife I did a ton of traveling
(50:24):
and the joke in the family wasyou can never, I could never go
to an airport where I didn't runinto somebody I knew and that
was actually true.
I mean, it didn't matter whatcity I was in, it didn't matter,
you know, what connection orwhere I was going there was.
Always I always ran intosomebody who I knew, and and and
(50:47):
again.
The world is huge, but it's butit's also small, and we have to
remember as, as professionals,people talk and if, if you're if
, if you treat people right,they're going to say good things
, and if you don't treat peopleright, they're going to say bad
(51:10):
things.
And that's when you startfinding out well, I can't, I'm
not getting promoted, I'm notgetting other job offers, I'm
not getting those things that Iwant.
You know, part of it is youneed to think about how, how you
are treating other people andhow you're coming across, and
are you actually surroundingyourself with people that are
going to help you get to whereyou want to be?
Michael (51:31):
No, that's uh.
I couldn't have worded itbetter myself.
That's one of the things I talkabout with people all the time
is personal brand.
How do you want to be perceivedwhen you walk in the room, when
you're part of a project, whenyou're part of a team?
But, like you said, the waythat you treat other people is
going to be a reflection ofyourself, the way that you
perform.
That's why, any team, anyproject, any initiative I'm
(51:54):
working on, I'm always puttingmy best foot forward.
I hate the term.
I don't know if you've heard ofquiet quitting, oh, yeah.
Yeah, I hate when I hear, hearthat where people are like, oh,
I'm not happy, here, I'm doingthe bare minimum, like that just
makes you look bad, like Iwould never do the big.
You never know if you're gonnasee these people again.
(52:14):
You can see them at anotherteam in the company.
You can see them at anothercompany altogether.
There are people I worked withat chevron that I also worked
with at amazon.
There are people I worked withat Amazon that I'm also working
with at Netscope.
You never know when you'regoing to cross paths again.
That perception, it'severything.
Tim (52:33):
You're either in or you're not.
If you don't want to be in,that's fine, perfectly fine.
Don't be in, but be aprofessional about it.
Michael (52:43):
Exactly.
Tim (52:43):
That's part of the thing.
So you know we talked a littlebit about your book.
Really, tell us about your bookand what it's about, and you
know the impetus of that,because I think it's a
phenomenal resource, you know,especially for young
professionals, but really foranybody who is questioning how
to move forward or maybe stuckin their professional career.
Michael (53:06):
Yeah, absolutely so.
My book is called the Power ofNetworking.
The core and the heart of it isobviously around building and
maintaining relationships and,to the point that we made
earlier, it's an impact on yourprofessional career.
It provides value in yourpersonal life.
But I also get into a lot ofother areas.
(53:28):
So I get into how todifferentiate yourself in
interviews, how to excel in yourrole, how to advance in your
career, how to transition froman individual contributor to a
people manager, how to navigateworkplace challenges.
A people manager, how tonavigate workplace challenges.
So I get into a lot of differentareas that are focused on your
career, growth and personaldevelopment.
But the heart of the book isfocused on building and
(53:52):
maintaining relationships andhow that can open up so many
doors for you and the benefitsof doing so.
So the book is available on allplatforms.
I have the e-book, I have thepaperback, I have the audio book
.
So whether you want to buy onAmazon, you want to listen on
Spotify, you want to read onBarnes Noble, it's available.
(54:13):
But, yeah, that's the core ofthe book.
Tim (54:17):
And again, I love it, I love the stories in it.
It really connects the dots andreally does hit home and I
again I think from a youngprofessional perspective it's a
great resource.
Do you have a second or thirdbook in mind?
Are you working on?
Maybe working on, maybe not?
Or one and done?
What do you think?
Michael (54:38):
I'm still thinking through that.
A lot of people have asked methat because of the success of
the first book, so they'realready, uh, asking for the
second.
I'm still I'm still in theideation phase to try to figure
out what I'd want to write next.
Uh, but I'd love to continue towrite more and publish more
books that's, that's awesome.
Tim (54:55):
I, I was a one and done um, I'm never, never say never, but
where I'm at right now, I'm one.
I would much rather talk topeople.
But anyway, where can peoplefind you if they want to work
with you?
Cause, cause, you're doingreally good, good things in the
space and I think you got a lotto offer people and helping them
(55:18):
get to where they want to be.
Michael (55:20):
Yeah, absolutely so.
So people can reach out to meon LinkedIn.
So my name on LinkedIn isMichael Morgan PMP.
I put PMP at the end of my namebecause I have the PMP
certification.
Uh, so that's the easy way tofind me.
Uh, I have my own website aswell.
So Michael V, as in Victor,Michael V, Morgancom.
Uh, so you can go on my websiteand then off my website.
(55:41):
I have a contact me form so youcan send me a message through
my website, or you can connectwith me on social media through
my website.
But those are probably the twobest channels that you can reach
out to me.
Tim (55:53):
And I'll put those links in the show notes, as well as
links to your book as well, foreverybody.
But, michael, thank you so muchfor taking some time and
talking with us today.
I think you provide outstandingvalue for the Speaking With
Confidence community and I can'tthank you enough for that, oh,
thank you.
Michael (56:11):
I appreciate the opportunity to be a guest on
your show.
I love Speaking With Confidence, so it's an honor to be here
speaking with you today.
Tim (56:18):
Thanks, bud, I appreciate it.
We'll talk to you soon Allright, sounds good.
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