March 17, 2025 • 49 mins
What’s it like when your business partner is also your spouse? Tim Newman sits down with his wife, Jennifer, for a candid conversation about the challenges and rewards of working together as a couple.
With nearly three decades of marriage and experience running multiple businesses—including their work with the Golfweek Amateur Tour—Tim and Jennifer share how they navigate communication challenges, decision-making conflicts, and role transitions in both their personal and professional lives.
This episode dives into:
- How to communicate effectively when switching between personal and business roles
- The impact of different communication styles on teamwork and conflict resolution
- Why defining clear roles helps prevent tension and micromanagement
- Managing high-pressure decisions when you and your partner don’t transition at the same speed
- The power of self-reflection and continuous growth in strengthening both relationships and leadership
- Why giving each other grace is essential for long-term success
Takeaways:
- Balancing Personal & Professional Roles Is a Constant Adjustment
- Different Communication Styles Can Create Both Strength and Struggle
- Decision-Making Under Pressure Exposes Communication Gaps
- Defining Clear Roles Prevents Micromanagement & Builds Trust
- Giving Each Other Grace & Space Is Essential for Long-Term Success
Whether you’re building a business with your significant other or just looking to strengthen your interpersonal skills, this episode is packed with insights on becoming a powerful communicator in any partnership. Have you ever worked with your partner? What’s been your biggest challenge? Drop us a message or share this episode with someone who needs it!
Tune in now to learn how to balance business, relationships, and communication with confidence!
Want to become a more confident and impactful communicator? Visit TimNewmanSpeaks.com for free resources and coaching opportunities!
Want to be a guest on Speaking With Confidence? Send Tim Newman a message on PodMatch
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tim (00:14):
I'm Tim Newman, a recovering college professor,
current communication coach, andI'm thrilled to guide you on a
journey to becoming a powerfulcommunicator.
I want to thank each and everyone of you for your support.
It truly means the world to me.
Please visit timnewmanspeakscomto get your free e-book Top 21
Challenges for Public Speakersand how to Overcome them.
Today's guest.
(00:36):
I love all my guests, buttoday's guest is a very special
guest.
You've heard me speak of herbefore.
It's my beautiful wife,jennifer Newman.
Jennifer, welcome.
Jen (00:46):
Thanks for having me.
Tim (00:48):
You know I joke that you started off at 4'7".
You're down to about 4'2" or4'3" now.
That's why you can kind of showit on the camera.
But everybody, this is thefirst installment of a new
segment that we're planning ondoing where we talk to husbands,
wives, boyfriends, girlfriends,significant others that
(01:11):
actually work together or areentrepreneurs together, running
businesses, talk about thechallenges that they have in
communication, going from theirwork roles to their home life,
to parenting roles and so forth.
You know, communication is hardenough as it is, but when you
start to mix in all thedifferent habits and different
(01:34):
things that you have to navigate, it makes it even a little bit
more difficult.
You should say.
Jen (01:40):
Definitely that's an understatement.
Tim (01:43):
So let's tell everybody a little bit about you first,
before we even really getstarted.
You're a retired educator.
You taught 28 years inBaltimore County School System.
You had various roles.
You taught math, social studiesfor a while, but you finished
up your career as a teachertrainer, so you traveled around
the county helping new teachersbecome effective teachers.
Jen (02:07):
Correct.
New teachers become effectiveteachers.
And those teachers who wereveteran teachers who were not
meeting the standards.
I had about six months to helpthem improve in order to keep
their job.
Tim (02:21):
And so then you retired Mm-hmm.
Then you moved on to adifferent role with the Gulf
Week Amateur Tour, where you andyou're still employed there
where you are responsible forall the training and development
of all the tour directorsacross the country.
Tell us a little bit about that.
Jen (02:40):
Well, that is a position where I work with the tour
directors all over the country.
I go through and train them,get them ready, especially the
new tour directors.
Go through everything that theyneed to do to prepare to run
effective tournaments, getthrough the season.
I deal with the brand, makingsure they're upholding their
(03:04):
part, Pretty much just get themdoing the best they can do in
delivering the product andservices that the Golf Week
Amateur Tour is known for.
Tim (03:16):
And your final role, or one of your final roles, is also
you're the short realtor.
Jen (03:22):
Yes, I am the name that you came up with for me.
That has absolutely stuck.
Tim (03:29):
And well, you're getting shorter, so I don't know what
else to do with you, but anyway.
Jen (03:34):
Don't believe what he's saying about my height.
Tim (03:36):
So we've been married for 20, a whole bunch of years high
20s, just short of 30.
There's that word again, 20, awhole bunch of years 20, high
20s, high 20s, just short of 30.
There's that word again, uh-huh.
But in that time, you know, wehave done pretty much every
(03:57):
venture that we've gotten into.
It's been a joint venture.
Pretty much everything we do.
We each have a role in that insome way shape, manner or form,
even when we were teaching.
You know I was a new teacherand I relied on you a lot for,
obviously, some training.
But you know, we have someroles, like with the Golf Week
(04:20):
Amateur Tour, and this is, Ithink, is a really unique
position for us, where, where weboth work with the tour, there
are sometimes when you're myboss and there's sometimes when
I'm your boss, and how does thatdynamic in your eyes work?
And kind of remember, now it'son camera, so that would be nice
(04:44):
.
Jen (04:49):
I know I'm thinking about exactly what I want to say,
because we're on camera and youtold me to be nice.
It's challenging.
I would say that it'schallenging.
I think the biggest thing isbalancing our personal
relationship with whatever thedynamics are in terms of who's
(05:14):
quote in charge, because at theend of the day, we go home
together when we show up.
Sometimes it's hard.
You know, in any relationship,I don't care who you are, how
long you've been togetherAnybody who thinks relationships
are easy and it's always greatis not being honest, or I don't
(05:39):
know how to put it, because thereality is there's always ups
and downs, even in the bestrelationships.
So there are times whenbringing your home relationship
into a business or you know theroles that you play is difficult
.
Now there are also times whenthe opposite is true.
It's very easy and that comesthrough, but I think that at
(06:02):
times it's just it's hard, youknow.
Tim (06:09):
What do you think is the most difficult thing?
Is it the role that you playand that I play?
Is it the communication style?
Is it the individual situationsthat run into individual
situations?
Jen (06:27):
that run into that cause excuse me that cause the
communication issues In terms ofwhat makes it challenging.
That's how you're framing thequestion.
So you know this will come asno surprise to anybody that
knows the two of us.
We'll probably have verydifferent answers for that.
For me, the hard part is thatnumber one I tend to show
(06:48):
everything on my face.
You know, if I'm feelingsomething in any kind of way,
it's going to show up.
It's going to show up in myface, my body language, and then
it carries over to mycommunication, not like you with
your resting you know what face, where you don't necessarily
see it.
So people who know me andinteract with me will know if
(07:11):
something's wrong or ifeverything's great and okay.
So for me, the the challengecomes into that personal
interplay.
And if I feel like I've got toput something aside because
we're in a different role, in adifferent relationship which I
have no problem doing like, Iunderstand that we have
(07:33):
different roles.
At the end of the day we'reclear that we're good, our
relationship is good and that attimes we switch into different
roles.
But for for me, the hard partis making that shift so that in
my own mind I'm separating itand transitioning from one to
the other.
Once I do that transition,everything's fine.
Tim (07:58):
I would tend to agree with you in terms of making that
transition.
Jen (08:07):
I think if I look at the two of us, I think I make that
transition much easier, muchquicker than you, absolutely,
and I think a lot of the timesbecause of that and because of
(08:29):
the way that we communicate, Ithink sometimes that is probably
the one of the biggest causesof of our communication problem
yes, because go ahead, because,right, this is a perfect example
, because you're saying that andI'm ready to jump in and say
something, which is one of thethings that we have as a
communication style anddifference because as soon as
(08:49):
I'm ready to say something, thewords are going to come out of
my mouth and I have to stopmyself.
So you're absolutely right,because what happens is you make
that switch, you're ready andyou're expecting me to be ready
at that same time, and we'realmost never ready at the same
time and so when I have to catchup, I'm going to frustrate you,
(09:10):
you know, because you're likeJen, come on, let's go, let's go
, let's go.
And for me, I need that minute,I need to be able to step back.
Once I get to that point, it'sfine, because anything that
isn't related to what we'redoing, then and now I'll put it
aside, compartmentalize and moveon.
But yeah, it's because weapproach things differently,
(09:32):
communicate differently, handlethings differently, but in the
end, it's all about we have thesame goal, we have the same, you
know, end in, we just get therein different ways.
Tim (09:46):
Yeah, now, especially like when we're dealing with a tour,
you know that's something that'svery different from the other
ventures that we're involved in,because when we're dealing with
a tour, you know we're directlydealing with our members and a
(10:06):
lot of the times we've got tomake, especially on tournament
days, we're moving fast.
Things happen very, veryquickly and a lot of times
decisions have to be made reallyquickly, and I think that also
is a prime target forcommunication problems, because
(10:30):
I know a lot of times what willhappen is I'll just make
decisions and not even tell youabout it, and then what ends up
happening is, when it comes downto it, you may be responsible
for a piece of it, I've donesomething and I haven't
communicated, and vice versa,but for that, that is generally
(10:57):
on me.
Those types of situations, yes,you do it too, but I think that
is for me one of the biggestissues and again, with the tour
being in charge of training anddevelopment and I've been doing
that for so long, I've got myown certain way of doing things.
Jen (11:14):
Do you?
I do no, you can't possibly be.
Tim (11:18):
And that may not be the way that it's supposed to be done.
Now I'm just hard charging.
Do it my way.
Jen (11:33):
And that's why, sometimes, when again, it goes back to that
juggling in the back and forth,because there are times that
number one, it's an event thatyou're running, You're in charge
, you're the boss of that eventand I'm there supporting you.
I am always, though, a memberof the national office
(11:56):
responsible for certain things.
So, in the moments when I dosomething based on my role, and
I kind of forget at times thatit's your, then God help me when
that happens.
But when it does, and I goforward and I make a decision
and I act on it, um, I think thebiggest conflict comes in.
(12:21):
When, then, you come back andsay well, you're not in charge
of this, but I'm still alwaysresponsible for the brand, and
it gets difficult in thosemoments in our communication and
then, in addition, how it getscommunicated to everyone else.
Tim (12:41):
Right, and I think in that instance, the majority of those
times, that those are problems.
I think we look at customerservice in two different ways.
We do and the way I'll let youexplain the way that you look at
it second year.
The way I look at it is I'mgoing to take care of these
people right now.
I'll deal with whatever on theback end, but when I'm
(13:06):
face-to-face with somebody, myresponsibility is to make sure
that they're taken care of, youknow, in the best way possible.
Now, obviously we're not goingto break rules.
Obviously we're not going to,you know, do things that are
crazy, right, but I makedecisions.
You know in the moment what Ithink is best to take care of
(13:26):
one of our golfers, so thatnumber one, they walk away happy
, so that I know that they'regoing to come back and so forth.
And again, that may not alwaysbe the right way, but I'll take
whatever happens on the back end.
Jen (13:41):
Right, and it's similar.
It's similar and differentbecause part of my job is to
support all of my tour directors.
And so there are times when Iwatch you do something and I
think, no, please, please stop,that's not what you're supposed
to be doing.
And I have to take the stepback and say, ok, but I'll
(14:03):
support you, you're my directorand I'll handle.
We'll handle behind the sceneswhat needs to be done and you'll
take whatever it is.
You know that's fine.
And then there are times thatthose players come to me and I
have to say, yes, I understand,I will take care of it and we'll
deal with it.
(14:25):
So there are times that I'mdoing the same thing from a
slightly different perspective,but in the end it's okay,
because the people who wereserving I think and this goes
back to the communication pieceit's always about listening to
what somebody has to say, makingsure that they feel valued,
they, they are heard and thatyou let them know that you'll
(14:47):
take care of it.
And you know, sometimes thatmeans that we have to clean up
messes that either one of us orboth of us have made.
But it's always about makingsure that we are respecting,
honoring and serving our players, our members, our customers and
(15:08):
and I think that's where thebenefit comes in between our
personal relationship, becausewe've got 30 years of experience
together, knowing that in theend it's always about that end
product and we will get workedout whatever needs to get worked
out and be accountable, becausewe're headed in the same place,
(15:32):
right.
Tim (15:33):
Now you know that one of my favorite movies is Toon Cup.
I was talking about golf.
Jen (15:43):
I know where this is headed .
Tim (15:48):
There's conflict, right, I mean when.
Jen (15:58):
It's really hard not to interrupt here, yeah.
Tim (16:01):
When we're in the midst of something or something doesn't
go right or whatever happens.
Right Because, just soeverybody knows, there's never,
ever, ever, ever, any event thatgoes 100% smooth sailing, 100%
smooth sailing.
But as long as the peopleattending the event don't know
(16:23):
about it, it's okay and we haveto clean things up.
On the back end, I'm the personthat is always looking.
I mean, there's something.
I notice everything, there'ssomething that's not right In an
attempt to be perfect in this,that and the other thing, and a
lot of times when that happens,I'll say something to him.
(16:44):
He turned into Romeo fromtakeoff.
By the way, romeo always quits.
Jen (16:58):
He always quits Because you never listen.
So think about this when Romeoquits, it's because he has a job
to do in keeping Kevin Costneron board, focused, getting to a
certain point, and he knows whatthe right answer is, what the
best way to approach it is.
His job is to tell you that andto execute.
(17:19):
To tell you that and to execute.
And then what happens in tincup is kevin costner says
basically, forget you, do what Iwant and do it now.
And then romeo does it and itcontinues because he's
hard-headed and stubborn untileventually it gets to the point
where the the train wreck isfull blown and then kevin
(17:40):
costner still isn't listening,so he quits.
That's exactly what happenshere.
Tim (17:46):
Is that what happens?
Jen (17:47):
Yes, she always quit.
You never listen.
See what happens.
Real simple.
Tim (17:55):
So what was your?
Jen (17:56):
question.
Tim (17:57):
I know, I know.
So close to 30 years.
Let's take a step back now.
Our kids are grown.
Thank, God.
Got our grandkids.
Now let's talk about ourcommunication styles.
I think if they haven't evolvedover that amount of time, I
(18:21):
think we're doing something.
I'm just.
That's just life in themselves.
How have you seen mycommunication style evolve,
let's just say, in the last 10to 15 years?
Jen (18:38):
I think that, all kidding aside, I think that you've gone
from everything being completelyblack and white, no gray.
Everything has to be a certainway, your way, or the highway,
however you look at it, thehighway however you look at it,
(19:06):
I think that you've learned thatthere are a lot of gray areas
and that there are lots of waysto approach things and do things
, and that you've become moreflexible to other perspectives
(19:28):
and that what that's evolvedinto is number one.
You are a.
You are a better listener, youare a more.
You come from a.
You always tend to come from,even though it doesn't seem like
it in the moment.
Um, you tend to come from ait's always a problem solving
(19:50):
type of perspective.
It's a let me hear what.
It is definitely our fixer.
You want to fix things, um,want things to be done in a
certain way, but I think thatyou bring to the table nowadays,
uh, a, a calmness, even as, orespecially in times of crisis,
(20:13):
that then you're looking how canI make this a win-win?
There still are the times whenyou're very abrupt or not as
abrasive as you used to be.
So I think you've just kind of,you've softened and your
(20:36):
delivery is better.
You're not as so quick to betriggered to.
You know, go into instant, youknow this has to be done and
fixed, but you still have thatno-nonsense kind of way about
yourself.
Does that ring?
Tim (20:59):
true, I think the majority of that is really pretty spot on
.
Jen (21:04):
Yeah, there's always something you'll criticize or
not criticize, but you know.
Tim (21:12):
What really resonates is the idea that much better
listener than that I think.
I've always been somebodythat's been good and crazy.
You have.
You know no matter what's goingon if there's a problem.
(21:35):
I think that's good at taking astep back, taking a deep breath
, really analyzing the situationand then making decisions and
being able to direct whateverhas to happen At times.
(21:57):
Not that being direct is goodor bad, it just is.
But at times now I find myselfbeing direct and questioning
should I have been so direct?
That is something that I don'tthink I've.
That's something that I'venoticed in talking to you.
Jen (22:22):
Can you explain a little more when you say that you
question it?
Tim (22:33):
When I say I question it, it's that maybe I was a little
bit too harsh, and I go back andforth yeah, but sometimes being
harsh is okay, Sometimes beingthat is really fine and that's
where I'm really kind of.
Obviously, you know,questioning myself and the style
(22:57):
I think about it like thisObviously our kids are older now
.
And they're adults, married Withtheir own kids, with their own
kids, and they still do thingsthat just aggravate me.
(23:17):
And so those are really some ofthe times it's just aggravating
, and so those are really someof the times that I'm talking
really with the kids.
Why are you still doing thingsthat way, that we've been over
and over again that don't work?
And then you know they come tome and want me to fix it or
(23:43):
clean it up.
Jen (23:45):
I don't ever think that about you.
Just saying I was beingsarcastic there because the shoe
fits.
You do the same thing over andover again and then come to me
to fix it.
That's all I'm saying.
Go ahead, See, this is thedynamic here, right?
Tim (24:08):
Yes, exactly, but again, so you talk about the dynamic,
right?
I say this a lot.
I don't take myself veryseriously, but I take what I do
seriously a lot.
I don't take myself veryseriously, but I take what I do
seriously.
Let's just leave it at that.
I take what I do seriously andI do take the whole idea of
(24:32):
continuous improvement andgetting better and
self-reflection really prettyseriously, especially when
there's issues like kids doingthe exact same thing over and
over again and I tell them attimes too, I swear to God, I'm
going to stop helping you.
(24:53):
You say that to everyone andthey look at me and they laugh
and they say no.
Jen (24:59):
As your knife hands right now.
Tim (25:05):
Welcome to my world true story.
But yeah, I think I thinkthat's important for everybody
to to be self-reflective and goback and and really look at how
they can improve in situations,instead of doing the same things
over and over again andwondering why somebody's not
listening or wondering why themessage isn't being communicated
(25:29):
.
You know, it's not always theother person's I wouldn't say
fault, but it's not always theirfault that we're not getting
the message.
Maybe you have to find adifferent way of communicating.
Jen (25:46):
Well, I think one of the things that you're saying in
this to me is again thedouble-edged sword of what works
well and what doesn't inpartners in business and
communication.
In partners in business and incommunication.
Because we have that historyand we know each other so well
(26:16):
and because we have such ahistory of trying to help the
other person be the best versionof themselves that they can be,
and because we have that trustin understanding that we will be
critical of each other like apositive critical of each other
and that we will be honest witheach other.
That you know, we're both veryreflective people personally and
(26:45):
we depend on each other to givehonest feedback.
That what happens is you'realways looking at me, just like
I'm always looking at you aswhat did we do well, what did we
not do well, that we canimprove on what's working and
(27:06):
what's not, and sharing that,and so I think that that's part
of that dynamic.
And if it's something in ourpersonal communication because
you say to me all the time youdon't communicate with other
people this way, why are youdoing this with me?
Because that's part of ourdance, that's part of the you
(27:27):
know the ongoing thing, but sowhen it's something in our
relationship and it plays out inour working relationship, and
you say that, and I'mthinking're right, I wouldn't
have handled it that way withsomebody else, so how can I do
it?
And then when we take somethingin business and apply it to our
(27:48):
personal.
So I just think that it's thatconstant back and forth and it's
the close relationship that has.
You know, sometimes it's hardto work together, but the
advantage of it is that we trulydo, you know, try to bring out
the best and make it better, andI think that comes through in
everything in the end when weapply it.
Tim (28:13):
I know it definitely comes through in the end whether we're
getting it right or we'regetting it wrong, whether we're
getting it right or we'regetting it wrong Because it's I
mean, let's be real honestyou're never always going to get
it right, but you're neveralways going to get it wrong
either.
There's that, I wouldn't say,the ebb and flow but that
(28:37):
continuum.
Jen (28:40):
Well, I think for us and I don't know how many people who
are watching and listening andhearing this, but for us we're
both such high achievers, we setthe bar, we're perfectionists
when it comes to what we do.
So I think that you know, aswe're saying this, I think it's
a little skewed, because we do agood job together, we are a
good team, we balance each otherout overall, especially in
(29:02):
business and how we deal withpeople.
So I think that we tend to seea lot of what we don't do well
in areas when you say you knowwe didn't do it right, but I
think that so much of what we dowe do very well, and then we
are often very critical ofourselves as to what's wrong and
always looking to improve.
So I don't want it to come off.
(29:24):
You know you keep sayingchallenges and what don't we do,
and I think that it's comingthrough again.
We're always looking at how doyou make it better, but I think
we do a lot really well.
I 100% agree with you.
We do a lot really well.
Tim (29:41):
I 100% agree with you.
This isn't going to come as ashock to you.
You may notice this.
This will be kind of a littlebit of a story here, right?
I don't know if everybodyrealizes this, but every episode
that I do it doesn't matter ifit's this podcast or the Golf of
(30:03):
Camture podcast there has neverbeen one episode where I
haven't mentioned family,whether it's you, whether it's
the girls, whether it's thegrandkids, what have you.
And I think it goes back to thethings that we value.
And you know, when we gotmarried and we really talked
(30:27):
about how we wanted our lifetogether to be, we prioritized
each other.
We prioritized the kids andmaking sure that we were taking
care of the kids and making surethat we were taking care of the
kids.
But our goals in life and whatwe value is helping them and
(30:55):
making sure that whatever it isthat we're doing is that we're
moving the ball forward andhelping people.
And so I think, to get back toit, trying to make sure that
we're better.
I mean, come back and look atit, how could we have done
better, even though we may havehelped whoever right it could be
(31:19):
the golf tour, it could havebeen our students, it could have
been your client, could havebeen, you know, the people in
the speaking with confidencecommunity, what have you?
They may have felt really goodand valued and wow, they really
helped out here.
But our mission is how can wehave done that better?
And I think that's one of thethings that, in terms of our
(31:46):
communication, that is a truepositive that has really enabled
us to be better, if that makessense.
Jen (31:59):
It does and I think part of it, I think, is exactly what
you said.
It's that always applying it tosomething.
So like listening to what youhad to say just now and your
answer and how it plays out.
How it plays out, you know, youdid an episode on speaking with
(32:26):
confidence.
I don't remember the name.
I can picture her, I can'tthink of her name and was
talking about the Myers-Briggsand introverts.
Tim (32:34):
Oh, Stacey Chazen.
Okay, stacey Chazen isphenomenal.
That episode was really good.
Talked about being introverts.
And go back and listen to thatepisode.
Jen (32:48):
Absolutely, and so for me, listening to it as somebody you
know, when you talked about myteaching career, you left out
the majority of it in school tocareer and career technology
education and playing anintegral part of helping high
school students figure out whatthey're, what they wanted to be
(33:09):
in life and how you can.
You know, I spent literally 20years working with helping
individuals figure all that out.
So, listening to that episodeas somebody who was very
familiar with the content andshe did such a phenomenal job of
(33:29):
explaining it and how itapplies and as I listened to it,
I thought, wow, I just learneda lot about my husband, because
the two of you were talkingabout being an introvert and how
you communicate in times ofcrisis and how you tend to sit
back and think and you don't saya whole lot.
(33:52):
And then, especially in a pointof crisis, then when you do
speak, where you've alreadyformulated a plan, because
that's just how you're wired.
And so I think that what youwere just saying in terms of
we're always looking to helppeople, and I think that it's
whether it's the speaking withconfidence, whether it's the
(34:14):
golf week amateur tour, whetheryou're talking about family,
you're talking about golfers,your tour directors, it doesn't
matter.
There's always a piece ofbringing out what they do that
helps people, and how you helppeople and how we help people,
and I think that it comesthrough and it is that
(34:35):
reflective, introspective pieceof how can we do it better.
That is the what we use andapply, and I think that one of
the things that I'm so proud ofyou and of us is that ability to
keep learning, to keep growing,to keep applying and be the
(34:55):
best we can be and help otherpeople achieve their dreams,
whatever it is yeah, I agree.
Tim (35:11):
I mean it's funny when we're at the, when we're at golf
tournaments.
You know we joke and I say thatI don't really do anything.
You do all the work and on acertain level that's's 100.
True, my job there is to seethe face that everybody loves
(35:34):
yeah, this face pretty much faceum and we and we joke.
You're always right.
You are pretty much almostalways right in the things that
you say, especially from beingable to take a step back and
(36:05):
evaluate from that perspectiveyou know, I'm almost always
right on other types of things,right, I mean, and it's good to
have that, it's good to be ableto have that balance in the way
we approach things.
Just think about where we wouldbe if we didn't have it.
Jen (36:28):
I don't think we either, one of us, would be nearly as
successful in the things we'vedone without having that yin and
the yang, without having thatother piece well, I think not
only that, but I think again itgoes back to why we're sitting
here today with this, and thatis that people who are in
(36:49):
relationships together, who, who, um, they, they I lost my train
of thought there for a secondsurprise, surprise but people
who are in relations,relationships together, and have
that history and thatconnection and what that brings
(37:11):
to the table when you areworking together,
entrepreneurial together, it'sthat teamwork, it's that
comfortability, it's how youbalance each other and that
you're always there for eachother.
And I think that it just goesback to those patterns, whether
(37:32):
it's a communication pattern,it's the dynamic of your
relationship, it's that if youare in a positive relationship
with somebody, whether it'spersonal, professional or
otherwise, you are doing thingswell together and it comes
through.
And I think that it's just allpart of it.
(37:53):
It's learning how to make themost of it and deal with the
challenges and how you adapt andadjust and what you do, but
it's always a partnership andwhat you do but it's always a
partnership.
Tim (38:16):
So, from your perspective, obviously we've been at this a
long time and we have multiplefriends that are kind of in the
same I would say dynamic, wherethey husband, wife, significant
other work together, dobusinesses together, you know
what have you, and it seems tome that this is something that
(38:39):
is way more common now than,let's just say, when we got
married, when we were young, ormaybe we didn't necessarily
notice it, but I perceive thatit's becoming more common, more
(39:02):
socially acceptable to havethose partnerships, to have
those partnerships, and thatTrue talk.
Jen (39:13):
I don't know.
I don't know if you may beright.
I haven't thought about it fromthat perspective.
I think that I look at it and Ijust think that I think we find
out more.
I think we find out more.
(39:35):
I think we're more aware ofpeople who are doing it, because
we're so open and we jokearound about it.
I think that's part of it.
I think that we're comfortablewith it.
We joke around, we mention it,and so then other people mention
it.
I don't know if it's morecommon or if it's the same, it
know.
It's kind of like when you'redriving down the road and you
see your same car and all of asudden, like you notice it more
because it's your car.
(39:56):
So I don't know.
I have no basis to do that,other than I think that you also
tend to see a lot of you know,see people who are like you.
So I think that it comes frombeing around people who are team
(40:16):
players and finding out whotheir team is.
Tim (40:21):
But you could be right to I just I've never thought about
it, so what's a piece of advicethat you would give to a couple
who's either in the throes of itor getting ready to do business
(40:43):
together?
Work together.
What advice would you give?
What advice would you?
Jen (40:48):
give.
I think the big thing thethings that come immediately to
mind is to number one have to becomfortable that your
relationship is strong Notperfect, but strong.
(41:10):
So you've got the relationshipthat you can, you know, get in
the throes of it and have anargument and know that
everything's going to work out,or that you can come back to
that and work it out later andstill be able to do other things
to that and work it out laterand still be able to do other
things, and that you have thatability to communicate and the
(41:34):
commitment to work through it.
I think that's one thing.
I think that you have to alsohave the confidence in yourself
individually, to know that we'repartners, we're working
together.
Um, you might be in charge, Imight be in charge, it doesn't
(41:56):
matter.
But who we are as individuals,our personalities, all of those
things like we're comfortable inour own skin, um, so that we
can do this individually andtogether without losing your
identity and how you do things.
And I think that it also isimportant that you have to be
(42:17):
willing to give yourself somegrace and your partner some
grace and also some space, sothat you know I don't know how
many times we're in the midst ofsomething and I just say you
got to give me a couple minutes.
Maybe I just walk away and comeflexibility to roll with things
(42:49):
and figure it out later and beable to to lack a better word
compartmentalize or, you know,focus on certain things at
certain times.
So you know it's kind of a bigpackage, but those are the
things that I, that I I'd saywhat about you?
Tim (43:09):
You stole one of my answers Because we're here.
I would completely agree.
First would be you know,remember what's most important.
Always remember what's mostimportant in that relationship.
And two is delineate your roles, know what your role is,
(43:30):
because if you know what yourrole is and you know what
everybody's role is and you stayin your lane and you do your
role.
Obviously you can step outsideand tell people You're not
meddling, you're notmicromanaging, you're letting
your partner be your partner andletting them take care of the
(43:52):
things that they would take careof the way that they would take
care of it.
The way we approach our product, the way we approach
communication is differentbecause we're people.
You can't control that.
(44:13):
You've got to let them be them.
You do.
You let them be them as long asthe things that are getting
done, that need to get done atthe high level that the
expectation is, that we've allalready got addressed.
That's all you can really askfor.
And you know, then we canactually deal with some of the
(44:33):
communication issues, right,right, because they're always
going to happen, it doesn'tmatter, they're always going to
happen.
But if you keep those things,those two principles you know,
top of mind, everything else canbe worked out.
Jen (44:52):
And I think, just to bring that full circle, as I'm
listening to you say, that itillustrates again, I think, one
of the advantages or positivesabout people in relationships,
working and communicating inmultiple projects, because you
and I approach things sodifferently and I think
(45:14):
listening to what you're sayingonly reinforces to me that you
know you're approaching it froma different way than I am the
end result is the same and it'sthat ability like you're really
good at remembering to keep uson task, because I'm going to go
(45:34):
off and I'm going to takeforever talking to somebody who
I haven't seen, because it's therelationship, it's that
personal piece, and so it'simportant for you to bring me
back in, sometimes reel me insaying you know, checking
somebody in at a golf tournamentand I'm talking about five
other things.
You're like jen, you got tofocus on this, but at the same
time, if you were trying tocheck them in, you're going to
(45:57):
miss all the details you know.
So it's that again being ableto know what the big picture
goals are, what your individualstrengths and weaknesses are,
being able to put them into play, hold each other accountable
and let the person be the personand just it's that level of
(46:17):
support that gets built in whenyou're in a relationship with
somebody that you're partneringwith in business that you're
partnering with in business.
Tim (46:30):
Honey, thank you so much.
I'm looking forward to thisseries.
We're going to have a, the nextinstallment of the series, and
here on out we'll have couplesand it'll be four of us.
You're having a conversationabout these types of things.
Hopefully that we can learnfrom them, they can learn from
(46:55):
us and our community can learnfrom that as well, because,
again, some of you have heard mesay this one of the beauties of
being a podcast host is talkingto people from all over you
know that's I love that, and itdoesn't matter where we are in
(47:18):
the world, where you're at,we're all dealing with the same
issue people are people alldealing with the same issue,
same things, how we approachthem and how we deal with them.
All the same, and I think we canlearn a lot from people all
over the world, and I'm actuallyhoping that we're going to have
(47:39):
couples from all over the worldthat have one signed up already
.
Jen (47:47):
Well and I have to say this is way more fun relaxing.
I was all worked up about this,so it was much easier to do
than I expected and I think thatit is.
It's neat, it's fun to share insomething.
This experience just reinforcessome things, learning about
(48:11):
other things.
I think it's great andhopefully everyone will get
something and give us feedbackand we're open.
Tim (48:20):
Tell us what you want to hear.
Tell us what you want us totalk about.
What is it that you want tolearn?
What value can we bring?
Obviously no.
Jen (48:29):
We'll do what we can.
Tim (48:32):
But again, heidi, thank you so much.
I do really enjoy this.
I look forward to having you onagain.
That was good.
Be sure to visitspeakwithconfidencepodcastcom to
get your free e-book Top 21Challenges for Public Speakers
and how to overcome them.
You can also register for theFormative for Public Speaking
(48:52):
course and book a meeting withme.
Always remember your voice hasthe power to change you.
Talk to you next time, takecare.
I'm Tim Newman, a recovering college professor,
current communication coach, andI'm thrilled to guide you on a
journey to becoming a powerfulcommunicator.
I want to thank each and everyone of you for your support.
It truly means the world to me.
Please visit timnewmanspeakscomto get your free e-book Top 21
Challenges for Public Speakersand how to Overcome them.
Today's guest.
(00:36):
I love all my guests, buttoday's guest is a very special
guest.
You've heard me speak of herbefore.
It's my beautiful wife,jennifer Newman.
Jennifer, welcome.
Jen (00:46):
Thanks for having me.
Tim (00:48):
You know I joke that you started off at 4'7".
You're down to about 4'2" or4'3" now.
That's why you can kind of showit on the camera.
But everybody, this is thefirst installment of a new
segment that we're planning ondoing where we talk to husbands,
wives, boyfriends, girlfriends,significant others that
(01:11):
actually work together or areentrepreneurs together, running
businesses, talk about thechallenges that they have in
communication, going from theirwork roles to their home life,
to parenting roles and so forth.
You know, communication is hardenough as it is, but when you
start to mix in all thedifferent habits and different
(01:34):
things that you have to navigate, it makes it even a little bit
more difficult.
You should say.
Jen (01:40):
Definitely that's an understatement.
Tim (01:43):
So let's tell everybody a little bit about you first,
before we even really getstarted.
You're a retired educator.
You taught 28 years inBaltimore County School System.
You had various roles.
You taught math, social studiesfor a while, but you finished
up your career as a teachertrainer, so you traveled around
the county helping new teachersbecome effective teachers.
Jen (02:07):
Correct.
New teachers become effectiveteachers.
And those teachers who wereveteran teachers who were not
meeting the standards.
I had about six months to helpthem improve in order to keep
their job.
Tim (02:21):
And so then you retired Mm-hmm.
Then you moved on to adifferent role with the Gulf
Week Amateur Tour, where you andyou're still employed there
where you are responsible forall the training and development
of all the tour directorsacross the country.
Tell us a little bit about that.
Jen (02:40):
Well, that is a position where I work with the tour
directors all over the country.
I go through and train them,get them ready, especially the
new tour directors.
Go through everything that theyneed to do to prepare to run
effective tournaments, getthrough the season.
I deal with the brand, makingsure they're upholding their
(03:04):
part, Pretty much just get themdoing the best they can do in
delivering the product andservices that the Golf Week
Amateur Tour is known for.
Tim (03:16):
And your final role, or one of your final roles, is also
you're the short realtor.
Jen (03:22):
Yes, I am the name that you came up with for me.
That has absolutely stuck.
Tim (03:29):
And well, you're getting shorter, so I don't know what
else to do with you, but anyway.
Jen (03:34):
Don't believe what he's saying about my height.
Tim (03:36):
So we've been married for 20, a whole bunch of years high
20s, just short of 30.
There's that word again, 20, awhole bunch of years 20, high
20s, high 20s, just short of 30.
There's that word again, uh-huh.
But in that time, you know, wehave done pretty much every
(03:57):
venture that we've gotten into.
It's been a joint venture.
Pretty much everything we do.
We each have a role in that insome way shape, manner or form,
even when we were teaching.
You know I was a new teacherand I relied on you a lot for,
obviously, some training.
But you know, we have someroles, like with the Golf Week
(04:20):
Amateur Tour, and this is, Ithink, is a really unique
position for us, where, where weboth work with the tour, there
are sometimes when you're myboss and there's sometimes when
I'm your boss, and how does thatdynamic in your eyes work?
And kind of remember, now it'son camera, so that would be nice
(04:44):
.
Jen (04:49):
I know I'm thinking about exactly what I want to say,
because we're on camera and youtold me to be nice.
It's challenging.
I would say that it'schallenging.
I think the biggest thing isbalancing our personal
relationship with whatever thedynamics are in terms of who's
(05:14):
quote in charge, because at theend of the day, we go home
together when we show up.
Sometimes it's hard.
You know, in any relationship,I don't care who you are, how
long you've been togetherAnybody who thinks relationships
are easy and it's always greatis not being honest, or I don't
(05:39):
know how to put it, because thereality is there's always ups
and downs, even in the bestrelationships.
So there are times whenbringing your home relationship
into a business or you know theroles that you play is difficult
.
Now there are also times whenthe opposite is true.
It's very easy and that comesthrough, but I think that at
(06:02):
times it's just it's hard, youknow.
Tim (06:09):
What do you think is the most difficult thing?
Is it the role that you playand that I play?
Is it the communication style?
Is it the individual situationsthat run into individual
situations?
Jen (06:27):
that run into that cause excuse me that cause the
communication issues In terms ofwhat makes it challenging.
That's how you're framing thequestion.
So you know this will come asno surprise to anybody that
knows the two of us.
We'll probably have verydifferent answers for that.
For me, the hard part is thatnumber one I tend to show
(06:48):
everything on my face.
You know, if I'm feelingsomething in any kind of way,
it's going to show up.
It's going to show up in myface, my body language, and then
it carries over to mycommunication, not like you with
your resting you know what face, where you don't necessarily
see it.
So people who know me andinteract with me will know if
(07:11):
something's wrong or ifeverything's great and okay.
So for me, the the challengecomes into that personal
interplay.
And if I feel like I've got toput something aside because
we're in a different role, in adifferent relationship which I
have no problem doing like, Iunderstand that we have
(07:33):
different roles.
At the end of the day we'reclear that we're good, our
relationship is good and that attimes we switch into different
roles.
But for for me, the hard partis making that shift so that in
my own mind I'm separating itand transitioning from one to
the other.
Once I do that transition,everything's fine.
Tim (07:58):
I would tend to agree with you in terms of making that
transition.
Jen (08:07):
I think if I look at the two of us, I think I make that
transition much easier, muchquicker than you, absolutely,
and I think a lot of the timesbecause of that and because of
(08:29):
the way that we communicate, Ithink sometimes that is probably
the one of the biggest causesof of our communication problem
yes, because go ahead, because,right, this is a perfect example
, because you're saying that andI'm ready to jump in and say
something, which is one of thethings that we have as a
communication style anddifference because as soon as
(08:49):
I'm ready to say something, thewords are going to come out of
my mouth and I have to stopmyself.
So you're absolutely right,because what happens is you make
that switch, you're ready andyou're expecting me to be ready
at that same time, and we'realmost never ready at the same
time and so when I have to catchup, I'm going to frustrate you,
(09:10):
you know, because you're likeJen, come on, let's go, let's go
, let's go.
And for me, I need that minute,I need to be able to step back.
Once I get to that point, it'sfine, because anything that
isn't related to what we'redoing, then and now I'll put it
aside, compartmentalize and moveon.
But yeah, it's because weapproach things differently,
(09:32):
communicate differently, handlethings differently, but in the
end, it's all about we have thesame goal, we have the same, you
know, end in, we just get therein different ways.
Tim (09:46):
Yeah, now, especially like when we're dealing with a tour,
you know that's something that'svery different from the other
ventures that we're involved in,because when we're dealing with
a tour, you know we're directlydealing with our members and a
(10:06):
lot of the times we've got tomake, especially on tournament
days, we're moving fast.
Things happen very, veryquickly and a lot of times
decisions have to be made reallyquickly, and I think that also
is a prime target forcommunication problems, because
(10:30):
I know a lot of times what willhappen is I'll just make
decisions and not even tell youabout it, and then what ends up
happening is, when it comes downto it, you may be responsible
for a piece of it, I've donesomething and I haven't
communicated, and vice versa,but for that, that is generally
(10:57):
on me.
Those types of situations, yes,you do it too, but I think that
is for me one of the biggestissues and again, with the tour
being in charge of training anddevelopment and I've been doing
that for so long, I've got myown certain way of doing things.
Jen (11:14):
Do you?
I do no, you can't possibly be.
Tim (11:18):
And that may not be the way that it's supposed to be done.
Now I'm just hard charging.
Do it my way.
Jen (11:33):
And that's why, sometimes, when again, it goes back to that
juggling in the back and forth,because there are times that
number one, it's an event thatyou're running, You're in charge
, you're the boss of that eventand I'm there supporting you.
I am always, though, a memberof the national office
(11:56):
responsible for certain things.
So, in the moments when I dosomething based on my role, and
I kind of forget at times thatit's your, then God help me when
that happens.
But when it does, and I goforward and I make a decision
and I act on it, um, I think thebiggest conflict comes in.
(12:21):
When, then, you come back andsay well, you're not in charge
of this, but I'm still alwaysresponsible for the brand, and
it gets difficult in thosemoments in our communication and
then, in addition, how it getscommunicated to everyone else.
Tim (12:41):
Right, and I think in that instance, the majority of those
times, that those are problems.
I think we look at customerservice in two different ways.
We do and the way I'll let youexplain the way that you look at
it second year.
The way I look at it is I'mgoing to take care of these
people right now.
I'll deal with whatever on theback end, but when I'm
(13:06):
face-to-face with somebody, myresponsibility is to make sure
that they're taken care of, youknow, in the best way possible.
Now, obviously we're not goingto break rules.
Obviously we're not going to,you know, do things that are
crazy, right, but I makedecisions.
You know in the moment what Ithink is best to take care of
(13:26):
one of our golfers, so thatnumber one, they walk away happy
, so that I know that they'regoing to come back and so forth.
And again, that may not alwaysbe the right way, but I'll take
whatever happens on the back end.
Jen (13:41):
Right, and it's similar.
It's similar and differentbecause part of my job is to
support all of my tour directors.
And so there are times when Iwatch you do something and I
think, no, please, please stop,that's not what you're supposed
to be doing.
And I have to take the stepback and say, ok, but I'll
(14:03):
support you, you're my directorand I'll handle.
We'll handle behind the sceneswhat needs to be done and you'll
take whatever it is.
You know that's fine.
And then there are times thatthose players come to me and I
have to say, yes, I understand,I will take care of it and we'll
deal with it.
(14:25):
So there are times that I'mdoing the same thing from a
slightly different perspective,but in the end it's okay,
because the people who wereserving I think and this goes
back to the communication pieceit's always about listening to
what somebody has to say, makingsure that they feel valued,
they, they are heard and thatyou let them know that you'll
(14:47):
take care of it.
And you know, sometimes thatmeans that we have to clean up
messes that either one of us orboth of us have made.
But it's always about makingsure that we are respecting,
honoring and serving our players, our members, our customers and
(15:08):
and I think that's where thebenefit comes in between our
personal relationship, becausewe've got 30 years of experience
together, knowing that in theend it's always about that end
product and we will get workedout whatever needs to get worked
out and be accountable, becausewe're headed in the same place,
(15:32):
right.
Tim (15:33):
Now you know that one of my favorite movies is Toon Cup.
I was talking about golf.
Jen (15:43):
I know where this is headed .
Tim (15:48):
There's conflict, right, I mean when.
Jen (15:58):
It's really hard not to interrupt here, yeah.
Tim (16:01):
When we're in the midst of something or something doesn't
go right or whatever happens.
Right Because, just soeverybody knows, there's never,
ever, ever, ever, any event thatgoes 100% smooth sailing, 100%
smooth sailing.
But as long as the peopleattending the event don't know
(16:23):
about it, it's okay and we haveto clean things up.
On the back end, I'm the personthat is always looking.
I mean, there's something.
I notice everything, there'ssomething that's not right In an
attempt to be perfect in this,that and the other thing, and a
lot of times when that happens,I'll say something to him.
(16:44):
He turned into Romeo fromtakeoff.
By the way, romeo always quits.
Jen (16:58):
He always quits Because you never listen.
So think about this when Romeoquits, it's because he has a job
to do in keeping Kevin Costneron board, focused, getting to a
certain point, and he knows whatthe right answer is, what the
best way to approach it is.
His job is to tell you that andto execute.
(17:19):
To tell you that and to execute.
And then what happens in tincup is kevin costner says
basically, forget you, do what Iwant and do it now.
And then romeo does it and itcontinues because he's
hard-headed and stubborn untileventually it gets to the point
where the the train wreck isfull blown and then kevin
(17:40):
costner still isn't listening,so he quits.
That's exactly what happenshere.
Tim (17:46):
Is that what happens?
Jen (17:47):
Yes, she always quit.
You never listen.
See what happens.
Real simple.
Tim (17:55):
So what was your?
Jen (17:56):
question.
Tim (17:57):
I know, I know.
So close to 30 years.
Let's take a step back now.
Our kids are grown.
Thank, God.
Got our grandkids.
Now let's talk about ourcommunication styles.
I think if they haven't evolvedover that amount of time, I
(18:21):
think we're doing something.
I'm just.
That's just life in themselves.
How have you seen mycommunication style evolve,
let's just say, in the last 10to 15 years?
Jen (18:38):
I think that, all kidding aside, I think that you've gone
from everything being completelyblack and white, no gray.
Everything has to be a certainway, your way, or the highway,
however you look at it, thehighway however you look at it,
(19:06):
I think that you've learned thatthere are a lot of gray areas
and that there are lots of waysto approach things and do things
, and that you've become moreflexible to other perspectives
(19:28):
and that what that's evolvedinto is number one.
You are a.
You are a better listener, youare a more.
You come from a.
You always tend to come from,even though it doesn't seem like
it in the moment.
Um, you tend to come from ait's always a problem solving
(19:50):
type of perspective.
It's a let me hear what.
It is definitely our fixer.
You want to fix things, um,want things to be done in a
certain way, but I think thatyou bring to the table nowadays,
uh, a, a calmness, even as, orespecially in times of crisis,
(20:13):
that then you're looking how canI make this a win-win?
There still are the times whenyou're very abrupt or not as
abrasive as you used to be.
So I think you've just kind of,you've softened and your
(20:36):
delivery is better.
You're not as so quick to betriggered to.
You know, go into instant, youknow this has to be done and
fixed, but you still have thatno-nonsense kind of way about
yourself.
Does that ring?
Tim (20:59):
true, I think the majority of that is really pretty spot on
.
Jen (21:04):
Yeah, there's always something you'll criticize or
not criticize, but you know.
Tim (21:12):
What really resonates is the idea that much better
listener than that I think.
I've always been somebodythat's been good and crazy.
You have.
You know no matter what's goingon if there's a problem.
(21:35):
I think that's good at taking astep back, taking a deep breath
, really analyzing the situationand then making decisions and
being able to direct whateverhas to happen At times.
(21:57):
Not that being direct is goodor bad, it just is.
But at times now I find myselfbeing direct and questioning
should I have been so direct?
That is something that I don'tthink I've.
That's something that I'venoticed in talking to you.
Jen (22:22):
Can you explain a little more when you say that you
question it?
Tim (22:33):
When I say I question it, it's that maybe I was a little
bit too harsh, and I go back andforth yeah, but sometimes being
harsh is okay, Sometimes beingthat is really fine and that's
where I'm really kind of.
Obviously, you know,questioning myself and the style
(22:57):
I think about it like thisObviously our kids are older now
.
And they're adults, married Withtheir own kids, with their own
kids, and they still do thingsthat just aggravate me.
(23:17):
And so those are really some ofthe times it's just aggravating
, and so those are really someof the times that I'm talking
really with the kids.
Why are you still doing thingsthat way, that we've been over
and over again that don't work?
And then you know they come tome and want me to fix it or
(23:43):
clean it up.
Jen (23:45):
I don't ever think that about you.
Just saying I was beingsarcastic there because the shoe
fits.
You do the same thing over andover again and then come to me
to fix it.
That's all I'm saying.
Go ahead, See, this is thedynamic here, right?
Tim (24:08):
Yes, exactly, but again, so you talk about the dynamic,
right?
I say this a lot.
I don't take myself veryseriously, but I take what I do
seriously a lot.
I don't take myself veryseriously, but I take what I do
seriously.
Let's just leave it at that.
I take what I do seriously andI do take the whole idea of
(24:32):
continuous improvement andgetting better and
self-reflection really prettyseriously, especially when
there's issues like kids doingthe exact same thing over and
over again and I tell them attimes too, I swear to God, I'm
going to stop helping you.
(24:53):
You say that to everyone andthey look at me and they laugh
and they say no.
Jen (24:59):
As your knife hands right now.
Tim (25:05):
Welcome to my world true story.
But yeah, I think I thinkthat's important for everybody
to to be self-reflective and goback and and really look at how
they can improve in situations,instead of doing the same things
over and over again andwondering why somebody's not
listening or wondering why themessage isn't being communicated
(25:29):
.
You know, it's not always theother person's I wouldn't say
fault, but it's not always theirfault that we're not getting
the message.
Maybe you have to find adifferent way of communicating.
Jen (25:46):
Well, I think one of the things that you're saying in
this to me is again thedouble-edged sword of what works
well and what doesn't inpartners in business and
communication.
In partners in business and incommunication.
Because we have that historyand we know each other so well
(26:16):
and because we have such ahistory of trying to help the
other person be the best versionof themselves that they can be,
and because we have that trustin understanding that we will be
critical of each other like apositive critical of each other
and that we will be honest witheach other.
That you know, we're both veryreflective people personally and
(26:45):
we depend on each other to givehonest feedback.
That what happens is you'realways looking at me, just like
I'm always looking at you aswhat did we do well, what did we
not do well, that we canimprove on what's working and
(27:06):
what's not, and sharing that,and so I think that that's part
of that dynamic.
And if it's something in ourpersonal communication because
you say to me all the time youdon't communicate with other
people this way, why are youdoing this with me?
Because that's part of ourdance, that's part of the you
(27:27):
know the ongoing thing, but sowhen it's something in our
relationship and it plays out inour working relationship, and
you say that, and I'mthinking're right, I wouldn't
have handled it that way withsomebody else, so how can I do
it?
And then when we take somethingin business and apply it to our
(27:48):
personal.
So I just think that it's thatconstant back and forth and it's
the close relationship that has.
You know, sometimes it's hardto work together, but the
advantage of it is that we trulydo, you know, try to bring out
the best and make it better, andI think that comes through in
everything in the end when weapply it.
Tim (28:13):
I know it definitely comes through in the end whether we're
getting it right or we'regetting it wrong, whether we're
getting it right or we'regetting it wrong Because it's I
mean, let's be real honestyou're never always going to get
it right, but you're neveralways going to get it wrong
either.
There's that, I wouldn't say,the ebb and flow but that
(28:37):
continuum.
Jen (28:40):
Well, I think for us and I don't know how many people who
are watching and listening andhearing this, but for us we're
both such high achievers, we setthe bar, we're perfectionists
when it comes to what we do.
So I think that you know, aswe're saying this, I think it's
a little skewed, because we do agood job together, we are a
good team, we balance each otherout overall, especially in
(29:02):
business and how we deal withpeople.
So I think that we tend to seea lot of what we don't do well
in areas when you say you knowwe didn't do it right, but I
think that so much of what we dowe do very well, and then we
are often very critical ofourselves as to what's wrong and
always looking to improve.
So I don't want it to come off.
(29:24):
You know you keep sayingchallenges and what don't we do,
and I think that it's comingthrough again.
We're always looking at how doyou make it better, but I think
we do a lot really well.
I 100% agree with you.
We do a lot really well.
Tim (29:41):
I 100% agree with you.
This isn't going to come as ashock to you.
You may notice this.
This will be kind of a littlebit of a story here, right?
I don't know if everybodyrealizes this, but every episode
that I do it doesn't matter ifit's this podcast or the Golf of
(30:03):
Camture podcast there has neverbeen one episode where I
haven't mentioned family,whether it's you, whether it's
the girls, whether it's thegrandkids, what have you.
And I think it goes back to thethings that we value.
And you know, when we gotmarried and we really talked
(30:27):
about how we wanted our lifetogether to be, we prioritized
each other.
We prioritized the kids andmaking sure that we were taking
care of the kids and making surethat we were taking care of the
kids.
But our goals in life and whatwe value is helping them and
(30:55):
making sure that whatever it isthat we're doing is that we're
moving the ball forward andhelping people.
And so I think, to get back toit, trying to make sure that
we're better.
I mean, come back and look atit, how could we have done
better, even though we may havehelped whoever right it could be
(31:19):
the golf tour, it could havebeen our students, it could have
been your client, could havebeen, you know, the people in
the speaking with confidencecommunity, what have you?
They may have felt really goodand valued and wow, they really
helped out here.
But our mission is how can wehave done that better?
And I think that's one of thethings that, in terms of our
(31:46):
communication, that is a truepositive that has really enabled
us to be better, if that makessense.
Jen (31:59):
It does and I think part of it, I think, is exactly what
you said.
It's that always applying it tosomething.
So like listening to what youhad to say just now and your
answer and how it plays out.
How it plays out, you know, youdid an episode on speaking with
(32:26):
confidence.
I don't remember the name.
I can picture her, I can'tthink of her name and was
talking about the Myers-Briggsand introverts.
Tim (32:34):
Oh, Stacey Chazen.
Okay, stacey Chazen isphenomenal.
That episode was really good.
Talked about being introverts.
And go back and listen to thatepisode.
Jen (32:48):
Absolutely, and so for me, listening to it as somebody you
know, when you talked about myteaching career, you left out
the majority of it in school tocareer and career technology
education and playing anintegral part of helping high
school students figure out whatthey're, what they wanted to be
(33:09):
in life and how you can.
You know, I spent literally 20years working with helping
individuals figure all that out.
So, listening to that episodeas somebody who was very
familiar with the content andshe did such a phenomenal job of
(33:29):
explaining it and how itapplies and as I listened to it,
I thought, wow, I just learneda lot about my husband, because
the two of you were talkingabout being an introvert and how
you communicate in times ofcrisis and how you tend to sit
back and think and you don't saya whole lot.
(33:52):
And then, especially in a pointof crisis, then when you do
speak, where you've alreadyformulated a plan, because
that's just how you're wired.
And so I think that what youwere just saying in terms of
we're always looking to helppeople, and I think that it's
whether it's the speaking withconfidence, whether it's the
(34:14):
golf week amateur tour, whetheryou're talking about family,
you're talking about golfers,your tour directors, it doesn't
matter.
There's always a piece ofbringing out what they do that
helps people, and how you helppeople and how we help people,
and I think that it comesthrough and it is that
(34:35):
reflective, introspective pieceof how can we do it better.
That is the what we use andapply, and I think that one of
the things that I'm so proud ofyou and of us is that ability to
keep learning, to keep growing,to keep applying and be the
(34:55):
best we can be and help otherpeople achieve their dreams,
whatever it is yeah, I agree.
Tim (35:11):
I mean it's funny when we're at the, when we're at golf
tournaments.
You know we joke and I say thatI don't really do anything.
You do all the work and on acertain level that's's 100.
True, my job there is to seethe face that everybody loves
(35:34):
yeah, this face pretty much faceum and we and we joke.
You're always right.
You are pretty much almostalways right in the things that
you say, especially from beingable to take a step back and
(36:05):
evaluate from that perspectiveyou know, I'm almost always
right on other types of things,right, I mean, and it's good to
have that, it's good to be ableto have that balance in the way
we approach things.
Just think about where we wouldbe if we didn't have it.
Jen (36:28):
I don't think we either, one of us, would be nearly as
successful in the things we'vedone without having that yin and
the yang, without having thatother piece well, I think not
only that, but I think again itgoes back to why we're sitting
here today with this, and thatis that people who are in
(36:49):
relationships together, who, who, um, they, they I lost my train
of thought there for a secondsurprise, surprise but people
who are in relations,relationships together, and have
that history and thatconnection and what that brings
(37:11):
to the table when you areworking together,
entrepreneurial together, it'sthat teamwork, it's that
comfortability, it's how youbalance each other and that
you're always there for eachother.
And I think that it just goesback to those patterns, whether
(37:32):
it's a communication pattern,it's the dynamic of your
relationship, it's that if youare in a positive relationship
with somebody, whether it'spersonal, professional or
otherwise, you are doing thingswell together and it comes
through.
And I think that it's just allpart of it.
(37:53):
It's learning how to make themost of it and deal with the
challenges and how you adapt andadjust and what you do, but
it's always a partnership andwhat you do but it's always a
partnership.
Tim (38:16):
So, from your perspective, obviously we've been at this a
long time and we have multiplefriends that are kind of in the
same I would say dynamic, wherethey husband, wife, significant
other work together, dobusinesses together, you know
what have you, and it seems tome that this is something that
(38:39):
is way more common now than,let's just say, when we got
married, when we were young, ormaybe we didn't necessarily
notice it, but I perceive thatit's becoming more common, more
(39:02):
socially acceptable to havethose partnerships, to have
those partnerships, and thatTrue talk.
Jen (39:13):
I don't know.
I don't know if you may beright.
I haven't thought about it fromthat perspective.
I think that I look at it and Ijust think that I think we find
out more.
I think we find out more.
(39:35):
I think we're more aware ofpeople who are doing it, because
we're so open and we jokearound about it.
I think that's part of it.
I think that we're comfortablewith it.
We joke around, we mention it,and so then other people mention
it.
I don't know if it's morecommon or if it's the same, it
know.
It's kind of like when you'redriving down the road and you
see your same car and all of asudden, like you notice it more
because it's your car.
(39:56):
So I don't know.
I have no basis to do that,other than I think that you also
tend to see a lot of you know,see people who are like you.
So I think that it comes frombeing around people who are team
(40:16):
players and finding out whotheir team is.
Tim (40:21):
But you could be right to I just I've never thought about
it, so what's a piece of advicethat you would give to a couple
who's either in the throes of itor getting ready to do business
(40:43):
together?
Work together.
What advice would you give?
What advice would you?
Jen (40:48):
give.
I think the big thing thethings that come immediately to
mind is to number one have to becomfortable that your
relationship is strong Notperfect, but strong.
(41:10):
So you've got the relationshipthat you can, you know, get in
the throes of it and have anargument and know that
everything's going to work out,or that you can come back to
that and work it out later andstill be able to do other things
to that and work it out laterand still be able to do other
things, and that you have thatability to communicate and the
(41:34):
commitment to work through it.
I think that's one thing.
I think that you have to alsohave the confidence in yourself
individually, to know that we'repartners, we're working
together.
Um, you might be in charge, Imight be in charge, it doesn't
(41:56):
matter.
But who we are as individuals,our personalities, all of those
things like we're comfortable inour own skin, um, so that we
can do this individually andtogether without losing your
identity and how you do things.
And I think that it also isimportant that you have to be
(42:17):
willing to give yourself somegrace and your partner some
grace and also some space, sothat you know I don't know how
many times we're in the midst ofsomething and I just say you
got to give me a couple minutes.
Maybe I just walk away and comeflexibility to roll with things
(42:49):
and figure it out later and beable to to lack a better word
compartmentalize or, you know,focus on certain things at
certain times.
So you know it's kind of a bigpackage, but those are the
things that I, that I I'd saywhat about you?
Tim (43:09):
You stole one of my answers Because we're here.
I would completely agree.
First would be you know,remember what's most important.
Always remember what's mostimportant in that relationship.
And two is delineate your roles, know what your role is,
(43:30):
because if you know what yourrole is and you know what
everybody's role is and you stayin your lane and you do your
role.
Obviously you can step outsideand tell people You're not
meddling, you're notmicromanaging, you're letting
your partner be your partner andletting them take care of the
(43:52):
things that they would take careof the way that they would take
care of it.
The way we approach our product, the way we approach
communication is differentbecause we're people.
You can't control that.
(44:13):
You've got to let them be them.
You do.
You let them be them as long asthe things that are getting
done, that need to get done atthe high level that the
expectation is, that we've allalready got addressed.
That's all you can really askfor.
And you know, then we canactually deal with some of the
(44:33):
communication issues, right,right, because they're always
going to happen, it doesn'tmatter, they're always going to
happen.
But if you keep those things,those two principles you know,
top of mind, everything else canbe worked out.
Jen (44:52):
And I think, just to bring that full circle, as I'm
listening to you say, that itillustrates again, I think, one
of the advantages or positivesabout people in relationships,
working and communicating inmultiple projects, because you
and I approach things sodifferently and I think
(45:14):
listening to what you're sayingonly reinforces to me that you
know you're approaching it froma different way than I am the
end result is the same and it'sthat ability like you're really
good at remembering to keep uson task, because I'm going to go
(45:34):
off and I'm going to takeforever talking to somebody who
I haven't seen, because it's therelationship, it's that
personal piece, and so it'simportant for you to bring me
back in, sometimes reel me insaying you know, checking
somebody in at a golf tournamentand I'm talking about five
other things.
You're like jen, you got tofocus on this, but at the same
time, if you were trying tocheck them in, you're going to
(45:57):
miss all the details you know.
So it's that again being ableto know what the big picture
goals are, what your individualstrengths and weaknesses are,
being able to put them into play, hold each other accountable
and let the person be the personand just it's that level of
(46:17):
support that gets built in whenyou're in a relationship with
somebody that you're partneringwith in business that you're
partnering with in business.
Tim (46:30):
Honey, thank you so much.
I'm looking forward to thisseries.
We're going to have a, the nextinstallment of the series, and
here on out we'll have couplesand it'll be four of us.
You're having a conversationabout these types of things.
Hopefully that we can learnfrom them, they can learn from
(46:55):
us and our community can learnfrom that as well, because,
again, some of you have heard mesay this one of the beauties of
being a podcast host is talkingto people from all over you
know that's I love that, and itdoesn't matter where we are in
(47:18):
the world, where you're at,we're all dealing with the same
issue people are people alldealing with the same issue,
same things, how we approachthem and how we deal with them.
All the same, and I think we canlearn a lot from people all
over the world, and I'm actuallyhoping that we're going to have
(47:39):
couples from all over the worldthat have one signed up already
.
Jen (47:47):
Well and I have to say this is way more fun relaxing.
I was all worked up about this,so it was much easier to do
than I expected and I think thatit is.
It's neat, it's fun to share insomething.
This experience just reinforcessome things, learning about
(48:11):
other things.
I think it's great andhopefully everyone will get
something and give us feedbackand we're open.
Tim (48:20):
Tell us what you want to hear.
Tell us what you want us totalk about.
What is it that you want tolearn?
What value can we bring?
Obviously no.
Jen (48:29):
We'll do what we can.
Tim (48:32):
But again, heidi, thank you so much.
I do really enjoy this.
I look forward to having you onagain.
That was good.
Be sure to visitspeakwithconfidencepodcastcom to
get your free e-book Top 21Challenges for Public Speakers
and how to overcome them.
You can also register for theFormative for Public Speaking
(48:52):
course and book a meeting withme.
Always remember your voice hasthe power to change you.
Talk to you next time, takecare.
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