What does it truly take to become a powerful communicator in today’s world? On this episode of Speaking With Confidence, host Tim Newman sits down with Shirlee Engel, seasoned TV reporter turned on-camera coach, to unpack the tools, mindsets, and effective communication skills that bring authentic connection to every conversation, far beyond just public speaking.
Whether you’re building a business, leading a team, or growing your influence online, Shirlee shares how to master leadership communication, develop active listening skills, and overcome those confidence hurdles (yes, even the dreaded imposter syndrome and speaking anxiety). Spoiler: The secret has less to do with memorizing scripts and more with showing up as yourself.
You’ll learn how storytelling, authenticity, and embracing imperfection can transform presentations, video content, and daily conversations into powerful moments of connection and impact. Tune in for practical advice to:
- Build public speaking confidence, even if you’re not on a stage
- Use storytelling techniques as your “currency” in a noisy, AI-driven world
- Master the art of showing up authentically (camera “resting face” and all!)
- Repurpose content and leverage technology for presentation skills development
- Turn your presence into profit through strategic visibility and messaging
Key Takeaways
- It’s Not Just About Public Speaking: Powerful communication is about how you connect, listen, and share your story across every channel, from Zoom calls to videos and live events.
- Authenticity Is Your Superpower: Shirlee explains why embracing imperfections and showing your human side create true connection—and why storytelling is more critical now than ever.
- Overcoming Imposter Syndrome & Anxiety: Both Tim and Shirlee get candid about their own struggles with confidence, sharing tips for breaking through self-doubt and putting yourself out there.
- Actionable Techniques for Any Communicator: Discover practical ways to build confidence on and off-camera, structure your message, and ensure every interaction—whether leading a meeting or posting online—leaves a lasting impact.
Connect with Shirlee Engel
https://www.youtube.com/@ShirleeEngel
https://www.linkedin.com/in/shirlee-engel/
https://www.instagram.com/be.camera.confident
http://www.sizzlereelschool.com/
Visit TimNewmanSpeaks.com to grab your free resource, The Top 21 Challenges for Public Speakers and How to Overcome Them, and start building the confidence you deserve.
Want to be a guest on Speaking With Confidence? Send Tim Newman a message on PodMatch
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tim (00:08):
Welcome back to Speaking with Confidence, the podcast
that helps you build the softskills that lead to real results
Communication, storytelling,public speaking and showing up
with confidence in everyconversation that counts.
I'm Tim Newman, a recoveringcollege professor turned
communication coach, and I'mthrilled to guide you on your
journey to becoming a powerfulcommunicator.
I want to thank each and everyone of you for your support.
It truly means the world to me.
(00:29):
If you have questions or if youwant something covered on the
podcast, just send me a message.
Please visit timnewmanspeakscomto get your free e-book.
Top 21 Challenges for PublicSpeakers and how to Overcome
them.
Today's guest is Shirley Engeland how to overcome them.
Today's guest is Shirley Engel.
Shirley is the CEO and founderof Camera Confident, where she
helps entrepreneurs and smallbusiness owners master their
(00:50):
on-camera presence and attractmore clients through video and
visibility opportunities.
A former TV reporter turnedentrepreneur, shirley knows that
confidence isn't just aboutwhat you say.
It's about how you say it.
She's helped countlessprofessionals refine their
messaging, tell compellingstories and show up powerfully
on video, on stage and in themedia.
Today, she's here to share howyou can speak with confidence
(01:14):
and turn your presence intoprofit.
Shirley, welcome to the show.
I've been waiting for this fora long time.
Shirlee (01:21):
Thanks so much for having me, Tim.
I'm so excited we're finallygetting to do this.
Tim (01:25):
Yeah, I mean.
So we've had a little bit ofhistory of taking your sizzle
real school class and, and youknow, we, we've talked to one
and all for a number ofdifferent things and I think
you're you're going to bring aton of value to our audience
because, as you know, you knowI've got, I've got the standard
resting bitch face on camera andget a little bit better with it
(01:45):
.
We're, you know, we're babystepping as as we go through
this uh, it's all perception tim.
Shirlee (01:52):
You know that that's the first place I would start is
to stop stop saying that it isfunny though it's, it's
hilarious.
Tim (02:00):
uh, I'll leave that there for now, but but know you've
been in the content creationbusiness, you know for a long
time and I'm not sure peopletruly understand what or how
local TV news reporters gettheir stories on air.
It's almost like when you're aone woman band.
Shirlee (02:20):
I certainly started that way.
Yeah, and it's so interestingbecause that is changing and has
changed even since I've leftthe business.
But yeah, I started doingeverything like from, you know,
getting the coffee to filming,to reporting, to editing.
And I was thrown in on my veryfirst day at an actual job where
I was paid to do it and wastold, okay, get a story on the
(02:42):
air by the end of the day.
And I looked at the editmachine and was like, how do you
work this thing?
So, yeah, definitely.
Tim (02:50):
But so how have things changed from, you know, being a,
a, a newscaster, a newsreporter, to being on camera as
an entrepreneur?
Now, obviously, a lot of thingsaren't the same, but are there
any things that weretransferable?
Shirlee (03:06):
Yeah, lots of things were transferable.
One of the biggest things isthe ability to tell stories.
A lot of people, especially intoday's day of social media and
we're told the shorter thebetter people have two to three
minute attention spans and allthe things.
I think people have lost sightof what storytelling means and
(03:27):
people don't think storytellingis important anymore, and I
would argue it's more importantthan ever now, especially with
the advent of AI and so muchcontent is written with AI.
Now we even have like AI B-roll, ai video, all that kind of
stuff that now telling storiesand being authentic is so
important.
Speaking of authenticity, though, not that being a reporter,
(03:50):
you're not authentic, but you dohave like a persona.
So when I first started as anentrepreneur, people would say,
oh, it's your reporter voiceagain, and I was like that's not
a good thing.
That's not a good thing whenI'm trying to connect with an
audience, as myself, as as acoach, as someone who wants to
connect with people.
You know, delivering the newsis one thing.
(04:11):
You're not allowed to have anopinion.
You're not allowed to revealwhat you think about something
or reveal any emotion aboutsomething.
All of those things are socritical to connecting on video
as an entrepreneur, as a contentcreator, as a thought leader.
It's really what makes youhuman and what attracts people
to you, especially now.
So there were definitely a lotof transferable skills in terms
(04:35):
of the technical know-how andwriting all of that kind of
stuff.
But you know there are crucialdifferences as well.
Tim (04:44):
Yeah.
So what was it like for thefirst time you were in front of
the camera, knowing that it wasgoing to be be broadcast as a
newscaster.
Shirlee (04:51):
Oh well, let's just say I wasn't confident.
Uh, you know that feeling whenyou're about to go on TV or on
video or on camera, maybe youdon't know on TV and and your
heart's beating so fast thatyou're like, is the microphone
picking up the heartbeat?
Because this is reallyembarrassing, you know, and
you're convinced that peoplewill hear your heart beating
through your voice.
Well, I felt all of that and Ifelt very awkward.
(05:14):
And my introduction to TVjournalism was a lot of being
live, where things werehappening.
So there was no such thing aslike a retake or a redo.
And back in that day as well notthat I'm that old, but I'm old
enough that it was beforedigital.
So there were actual tapes wewere filming on.
So it's not like now you canjust do 1000 takes, like we
(05:37):
didn't have all the tape in theworld.
So a lot of it was just sort of.
You know, you aim for as goodas you can be.
And the deadline was almost agood thing because it didn't
allow you to overthink it likeit had to go out.
And I always encourage clientsto treat their content much in
the same way, because if you'rein your head and you're
constantly thinking, oh, I wantto do this again.
(05:59):
I didn't like that take.
People are always like, oh, Idid 100 takes before I did that
one and I'm like why are youdoing a hundred takes?
There's no reason to do ahundred takes.
Even if you mess up, it's humanright.
Tim (06:16):
So that was a good introduction and really after
probably at least with me, afterlike a third take, if it's not
right and I'm not going to useit, I have to walk away because
it just gets the emotion, goesout of it.
I mean it just doesn't evenfeel natural anymore.
Shirlee (06:26):
Yeah.
Tim (06:27):
So if you're going to do take after take like I do,
sometimes I have to walk awayand then come back to it.
You know, come back to it later.
Let's just put it that wayExactly.
Shirlee (06:36):
Just be confident about it and just say the thing, say
whatever it is that you're goingto say yeah and say it with
meaning, say it like you weregoing to say it to someone else,
right?
Because if you're having aconversation you don't say, oh,
can I just take that back andsay that again Like we don't do
that.
So it shouldn't be anydifferent on camera.
I know that's easier said thandone, but it's definitely a put
(06:59):
in the reps and you get betterkind of thing.
Tim (07:02):
Yeah, did you have some of the same feelings, going from
being a newscaster to be anentrepreneur, in front of the
camera, knowing that there wasgoing to be that little bit of a
transition?
Shirlee (07:12):
Not really.
No, I, I didn't.
And I think it was almost arelief to be out there.
You know, the first businessthat I launched was an interior
design firm and I was showing upon Instagram and I was just
being me and I was doing mything and I actually found that
I had missed it, you know,because I had spent a few years
working in executive consultingand coaching um and and worked
(07:34):
in public affairs and I wasreally excited to get back into
it.
And then I started appearinglive on a morning television
show as an interior designexpert and just talking about
design and you know, it's kindof like riding a bike, it just
it just came back and it wasmore fun because I could smile,
you know, I could, I could emote, I could use my hands a little
(07:57):
more.
I wasn't looking straight,that's the other thing.
I wasn't looking straight intothe camera, I was talking to
someone else.
So I felt almost I would saythe camera, I was talking to
someone else, so I felt almost Iwould say the opposite, like it
was.
It just felt very natural.
But that's because I had beendoing it in a staged kind of way
for so long.
Tim (08:14):
Right.
So you know, and you know we'vetalked about this before.
You know, for me, I like to beable to see the person who I'm
talking to, and you know, whenwe're doing this, you know I've
got to be looking at the camera,as opposed to over here looking
at you and watching your facialexpressions, and and so, for me
(08:35):
, I lose some of some of the,some of the meaning, some of the
emotion, some of those thingsat times.
So how can we, if how can we,look at the camera and and truly
be able to be authentic and andshare how we want to share, so
that it comes across almostnaturally?
Shirlee (08:53):
Yeah, and I love that you set it up that way, because
right now you and I arerecording on a platform.
We're both in boxes for thosepeople who maybe can't see the
backend, and as you're talking,I'm not actually looking at you,
I'm looking at the green light,because if I look at you, this
is what it looks like and I losethe eye contact with the viewer
(09:13):
, right.
So that's something that evenif you're not someone doing on
camera stuff, if you're on Zoomcalls, if you're doing client
meetings, like whatever kind ofspeaking you're doing, people
often forget that you've got tolook people in the eye, even
virtually, and if you thinkabout it, if you both do that,
you're not actually looking ateach other.
The way I get around that andthis is something that takes
(09:35):
practice is you picture theperson Like the lens is not a
lens.
I always think someone's behindthe camera and you're actually
speaking through the camera tothat person rather than talking
to a lens, because I think thatwhen you do that, you lose a
little bit of that.
But you know, it is one ofthose kind of like walking and
(09:55):
chewing gum at the same time, orlike tapping your head and
rubbing your stomach at the sametime You're it's a little bit
of a mind bender, but it'sabsolutely critical to maintain
that, especially if you'rerecording something that's then
going to go out.
Ultimately, it's about theaudience, it's about the viewer,
and you want to make sure thatthe viewer experiences that as
(10:17):
an interaction that feelsnatural, even if it doesn't feel
natural to you recording it.
Tim (10:23):
Yeah, and for me that's one of the hardest things to get
over and I'm getting natural toyou recording it.
Yeah, and that's what.
For me, that's one of thehardest things to get over and
I'm getting a lot better at it.
You know, doing this podcastfor a little over a year now and
having taken your sizzle, realschool and and learn some of
those, some of those things, butit's it's still kind of it's
still kind of not natural but it, but I think it's just like
(10:46):
anything else, the more you doit, the more practice that you
do it, the better you get at it?
Shirlee (10:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
It's like you know, if you wantto go to the gym and you say,
well, I can't go to the gymcause I'm not in shape yet, but
then you got to go to the gym,you're not just going to get a
six pack the first time you goto the gym, right, and so that
sounds ridiculous.
We're laughing at that.
But a lot of people say, well,you know, I can't put out videos
yet because I'm not, I don'tfeel comfortable or confident,
(11:13):
or I can't show up, and it'slike, well, how do you think
you're going to get there?
You've got to do the thing.
It's like anything, right?
I mean even the most magneticspeakers that you see out there
on video on stages.
They didn't start that way.
And if you want proof, go totheir social channels and scroll
way down like way, way down, asfar down as you can go, and
(11:33):
guaranteed you're going to seesome pretty awful takes that
they had at the beginning.
None of us are born like this.
I mean, some people do have anatural talent, but even that
needs to be honed.
There's a mastery to it.
Tim (11:47):
That's right, and that's the other thing that people need
to understand.
If you do have some naturaltalent, it doesn't mean that you
just rely on that.
Most people who you know, whoare like us, you know type A,
you know the entrepreneurialspirit, who want to progress in
life.
We work on things.
You have to get better at it.
You can't we don't just rest onour laurels and think that
(12:10):
that's going to be good enoughto get us to where we want to be
.
Shirlee (12:13):
Yeah, and I think, especially now I'm trying to do
this in my own content.
I spend a lot of time talkingabout and filming and showing
the not so polished aspects.
You know, I published a YouTubevideo yesterday and there was a
mistake in one of the graphicsand somebody reached out to me
on LinkedIn to tell me and Icould have panicked and, oh God,
(12:34):
they're going to think I'm not.
You know, they're going tothink I didn't pay attention or
whatever they're going to think.
You know, we always have thatin my head oh, what if people
are going to judge?
And so instead I filmed contentabout how I go about correcting
that, and I had so many peoplereach out to me after and be
like you know, I'm so glad tosee that.
Thank you for showing that.
You know, people are sograteful for those moments and
(12:57):
this.
I teach this stuff Right, um,and so I could easily be in my
head and be like, oh, it's gotto be perfect, because if it's
not, then people are going tothink I'm a fraud or they're not
going to think I think I don'tknow what I'm talking about.
I think, if anything, peopleappreciate knowing that even
people who have quote unquotemastered this.
I mean you never.
(13:18):
To me it's also a constantevolution, like you're
constantly working at it.
I love the gym analogy, becauseit's the same thing.
I mean you might get intoamazing shape, but if you don't
keep going and keep it up,you're going to lose that Right,
and so being on camera is a lotvery similar to that, and
public speaking is similar tothat.
When I first started back intobeing out there and being on TV
(13:43):
and being on video after alittle hiatus like I had to get
back into it I had to rememberhow to speak and, so to speak.
I mean it comes faster whenyou've done it before, but there
still is a ramping up period,for sure.
Tim (13:58):
Well, you know, I like that you talk about our mistakes or
our mess ups or not necessarilyfeeling comfortable.
You do a lot of that type ofcontent.
Like a month or so ago, you putsomething out about, you know,
doing a photo shoot in publichealth.
Sometimes it feels like we'rebeing looked at and judged and
we kind of go through that.
(14:18):
But the whole idea is don'tworry about it, just keep being.
You Do the things that you haveto do.
And then you did one where yourdaughter was putting makeup on
you.
Um, yeah, and and truth be told, I've I've been that too my
daughter put makeup on me notred lipstick.
Shirlee (14:37):
I hope like me.
Tim (14:38):
Yes, oh, okay and you know my granddaughters will paint my
fingernails.
You know it is what it is andit looks like you know a kid did
it.
But we have to be okay withthose sometimes that we're not
perfect, that we're not.
We don't show up how we want toshow up, but at least we're
(15:02):
showing up.
Shirlee (15:04):
Yeah, but I think it goes further than that, tim.
I think it's necessary, I thinkit makes you human and you know
, especially if you're anentrepreneur or you're someone
who's you know, a consultant orsomeone who relies on visibility
for clients or income, you needto create connection,
especially with people who don'tknow you, and I can't count how
(15:26):
many times I've met people andthey've been like hey, even even
in Phoenix.
The other day I was in Phoenixfor a conference and some people
were like hey, it's Shirley.
Like it's like they know youalready.
Well, how did they know me?
I didn't necessarily know whothey were, but it's because in
my content I speak to the camera, like I'm speaking directly to
them.
(15:46):
So people feel and I felt thisas an interior designer as well,
when I would go on and talkabout design on TV and then I'd
go to a client's house andthey'd be like hey, how's it
going?
And there was that feeling oflike we already know each other
and I'm meeting this person forthe first time.
And that's what you absolutelyneed, because there are lots of
other people doing what you'redoing.
(16:06):
I mean, none of us are.
You know, there's very, veryfew, if any, niches where it's
like oh, you're the only persondoing that, right?
So what distinguishes you fromthose people?
It's you as a person, becausethe other thing that a lot of
people used to rely on,particularly in the coaching
space and in the knowledge-basedeconomy, was knowledge, that
(16:28):
transfer of knowledge.
Well, guess what?
Knowledge is free now.
You don't even have to pay forit.
Anything I ever want to know, Ican go into ChatGPT, and it's
not just about, like you know,tell me the best restaurants in
downtown Phoenix.
It's analyze this for me.
And, like you know, tell me thebest restaurants in downtown
Phoenix.
It's analyze this for me andgive you know.
So, in the absence of beingable to like, you can still sell
(16:49):
that knowledge.
But when people can get thatfor free from AI, what do they
get from you that they're notable to get somewhere else?
Well, they get you.
So the era of the personalbrand, I would say, is we're in
that, the height of the era ofthe personal brand, because
that's what we've got to sellnow, in 2025.
Tim (17:10):
Yeah, and again, just take that.
That next step further is, likeyou said, it's about that
personal connection.
We, we, we rely on AI, we relyon technology, but there's no
getting around that personaltouch, that personal connection,
those personal relationships.
Shirlee (17:29):
Absolutely.
Tim (17:29):
You just can't, and so you have to be able to communicate.
You have to be able to connectwith people on whatever level
that they're, on whatever levelthat they're on.
Shirlee (17:41):
Yeah, and that's what comes back to storytelling.
You know, and a lot of people,especially I find clients who
come to me and I ask them abouttheir stories because we want to
, you know, develop theirmessaging and you and I did this
too in sizzle real school.
You know what's your story andpeople think, okay, what's a
story I have and they reallystart to get in their heads
about it and it has to be a goodstory and it has to be the best
(18:03):
story and it has to beinteresting.
And people don't realize thateven what they consider as a
mundane story could be a veryimpactful and relatable story to
someone else.
Like I was taking my daughterto school the other day and, you
know, whatever.
So it doesn't have to be thisepic hero's journey.
People love even the mundane.
(18:25):
You know, I was listening to apodcast the other day where
someone was talking about howthere's this trend of people
being obsessed with watchingpeople eating things in reels.
I don't understand this myself,but like, how just mundane and
basic is someone eating ahamburger?
But, you know, maybe there'sdetails around it, maybe it's
(18:46):
the type of hamburger they get,maybe it's the specific place
they got it.
That is new in that community,or maybe you know they're
wearing a really nice shirt andthey drip something Like these
things that we don't think arethat important, are so relatable
, that we don't think are thatimportant, are so relatable, and
they make people say, yeah, oh,my God, Right, and it doesn't
have to be this big epic story,and so that's, I think, such an
(19:10):
important thing to weave throughyour content and wherever
you're speaking, because that'sthat's your currency.
Your, your stories are yourcurrency now, not your knowledge
.
Tim (19:20):
Yeah, Stories are your currency now not your knowledge.
Yeah, that's at least forsomebody from my generation.
That's hard to, that's a toughhurdle to get over.
You know, just from thatperspective, you know we've had
YouTube for I don't know howmany years.
We've had Google, for I don'tknow how many years, but it's
(19:51):
really the last four to fiveyears that what you're saying
has really become our, our newreality.
And you know, when you know forfirst, people in my generation,
I think people would come to usfor our knowledge.
And now we have to, we as, asentrepreneurs, we we've got to,
we've got to be able to pivotand understand that and, like
you said, go in this otherdirection.
Shirlee (20:07):
Yeah, and we also have to create content at scale.
That's another thing is, youknow, I have people who are like
, oh, I don't want to use AI.
And I am very much pro-AI, notjust for ideation and
brainstorming and all thosewonderful things in the process
of developing what you're goingto say, but also just in the
(20:29):
systems that get your messagesout there, because if you're not
using these things, then youare being left behind, because
humans can't physically keep upwith the pace of what AI can do
and there's new things comingout every day.
I mean, it just really blows mymind.
But you know, I think it'ssomething to embrace.
There are certain aspects of itthat you know maybe we don't
(20:52):
embrace, but definitely in thepublic speaking realm, it allows
you, from a visibilityperspective, to do a lot more.
Tim (21:01):
Yeah, so what tools are you using and how are you using
them?
Shirlee (21:04):
Yeah, so many tools.
I'm one of those people thatlike wants to know how to use
them all and then I pick thebest ones.
I always, no matter what I, youknow, learn about.
I always go back to chat GPTand the most powerful thing that
I've done that a lot of peopledo is create a custom GPT in my
brand voice.
So you know, if you have thepay, you need the paid version
(21:26):
of ChatGPT to do this and youcan create a custom GPT and
train it to speak like you.
If you've been using ChatGPTfor a long time, it may already
do that, because ChatGPT eventhere was at the time of this,
recording an update that cameout, where it remembers even
better the stuff you've told itbefore.
But if you've neverdeliberately fed it a brand
(21:47):
guide or you want it to pullfrom a very specific type of
voice that you speak in, orexamples of some posts you've
done before transcripts, thingslike that, using AI to come up
with first drafts and ideas andbrainstorm how to make things
better those are the ways thatI'm really using it from a
(22:08):
content creation standpoint.
I'm someone who doesn't believein ever starting with a blank
page now.
There's no reason to.
That doesn't mean that we copyand paste, far from it.
Although the more you use AIand the more you train it.
Far from it.
Although, the more you use AIand the more you train it, the
more it starts to sound like youand the less work you have to
do.
But you know an example of that.
(22:28):
You know, I'm a creative typeand I have a YouTube channel and
I'm really ramping up myYouTube channel at the moment.
And so this morning, as I wasgetting ready, I just, you know,
the ideas were coming to me andI started thinking about the
beginning of a video, and so Iwent into my notes app and I
wrote out all of the you know,here's how I think it's going to
go.
And then I copied and pastedthat into ChatGPT and said OK,
(22:50):
here's what I have so far, Canyou?
And I gave it very specificprompts about the type of videos
I like to create, and it spitsback out a script.
I take that script.
I like to also use Claude.
Claude is I find a bettercreative writer than ChatGPT.
Chatgpt is very good atstrategy, you know, being
strategic, helping you,brainstorm, thinking outside the
(23:12):
box.
It's not always as good atwriting because it tends to
churn out pretty similar lookingstuff.
Claude is really good for that,but what I do is I use
different platforms to come upwith my product, and that way
it's it is ultimately me in theend, because I'm not just taking
it from one source.
And then, as far as repurposingvideos, there's lots of great
(23:34):
AI tools.
One I use in particular iscalled Opus Clip.
Even this interview we're doingright now, breaking things up
into smaller pieces to be ableto repurpose through Shorts and
Instagram.
So the approach I take is youcreate a very valuable piece of
long format content and thatallows you to break it up and,
(23:55):
you know, get the most mileageout of it by using different
pieces of it.
Tim (24:00):
Yeah, and that's so important to understand and then
being able to take.
When you take this content andthen you cut it up or you have
these tools cut it up, you alsohave to.
It's not just let them cut itup.
You have to make sure that it'sgoing to work for whatever
(24:22):
platform or whatever message itis that you're going to actually
be using on.
You can't just say, okay, itdid this one and it sounds
pretty good, so we're just goingto slap it up there and hope
that it's going to get themessage out that we want to get.
We still have to go through itand make sure that it's
communicating the message thatwe want to communicate on the
(24:44):
platform that we want to put iton.
Shirlee (24:46):
Yeah, and you know I've developed different methods for
doing that.
I find I probably use maybe 60,50 to 60 percent of the clips
that it spits out, because someof them, without more context,
don't really make sense.
The reason I like Opus Clip isbecause I've tried a lot of
other ones and I find the AI atleast at the time of this
(25:08):
recording it's always changing,I find puts out the best quality
stuff.
But what I'll often do is thenI'll go back to ChatGPT and
ChatGPT has an option where youcan press the microphone and you
can play the clip so ittranscribes the clip for you, or
you can copy a transcript andthen I tell it to come up with,
let's say it's LinkedIn, writeme a LinkedIn post based on this
(25:30):
transcript.
So it's pulling from what Ialready said.
But then it's organizing it in adifferent way, or maybe an
email or a blog post or whateverit is, and then I take that off
of ChatGPT and then I revise itand put my own spin and my own
voice on it and post it, andthat whole process can take a
couple minutes.
So there is no excuse.
(25:51):
Oh no, what do I post today?
I mean, ideally we want to havecontent plans and have them
weeks and weeks out, but you andI both know the reality of
entrepreneurship.
It's hard to do that andsometimes you have things that
come up on certain days whereyou have something to say and
you don't want to wait two weeksto say it.
It's timely right now.
So I think it's a healthy mixof having stuff in the bank that
(26:15):
you're not constantly feelinglike you're catching up, you're
on this content treadmill, butalso leaving room for that magic
where, on a specific day, ifyou have something to say that
you're not kind of sitting on itfor a couple weeks yeah, and I
do something very similar whatyou do.
Tim (26:31):
But I find myself a lot of times like if I'm working on
something, I'll get a thoughtwhich is rare but I'll get a
thought and I'll put it in thechat GPT, knowing that I'm not
going to do anything with it.
Or it could be two days, itcould be a week, and I'll say,
okay, let's go back and see whatit came up with, and then that,
(26:51):
take that and either dosomething with it or not do
something with it.
But right, so in the past,where you know we, we all have
the notes app, but for me that'sjust not practical, it's just
not.
You know, my ADHD just doesn'twork that way.
But now, with ChatGPT on thephone or sitting here on my
(27:15):
computer, I can just speak it inand move on.
It takes 15, 20 seconds, asopposed to me typing something
in my notes app or anything likethat.
It'll take me 20 minutes.
Just speak it in and go andthen come back to it in a couple
days or whatever.
I did that five times yesterday, five times.
Shirlee (27:38):
Wow, that's great.
And then how do you keep trackof it?
Because that's one of thethings I think is something
that's difficult in some ofthese AI apps is just, you have
this long conversation.
You're like, oh, I had thisreally good thought like last
Wednesday, and what did chatcall that chat again?
So I think there is a risk ofit kind of getting lost in the
(28:01):
ether.
There is a risk of it kind ofgetting lost in the ether, which
is why I like having an ideaparking lot and being able to
draw on that.
So it really depends on how youwork.
But it's what you said it'sfind the system that works for
you.
And the other thing I want tosay is there is still a strategy
.
So the way I work with clientsis I make sure that there is an
(28:24):
underpinning to what they'resaying, that that everything
every video you create, everymessage you put out there has to
feed into a broader narrativethat you develop that really
stays on brand and on message,right?
So a lot of people are justthrowing spaghetti at the wall
and they're wondering why it'snot working.
Why is it crickets?
Why don't people engage with mycontent?
(28:45):
Well, if you're just kind ofrandomly throwing things up
there.
Your viewer, your audiencecan't follow the breadcrumbs, so
to speak.
Tim (28:53):
Yeah, and again, for me that's, that's something that I
find myself doing at times too,and I and I, you know, I get off
track and I say, okay, now Ican, I can see them off track
now, and then just veering backon Um and and and it's hard,
yeah, it's.
(29:17):
I mean, you've got to havesomebody, who, who, who can, um,
who can help lead you back.
As number one stop you fromfrom getting off track, but if
you do get off track, lead you.
Lead you back to on track asquickly as possible so that
you're not wasting time, energyand resources.
Shirlee (29:29):
Yes.
Tim (29:30):
Going down a road that you really shouldn't be going down.
Shirlee (29:33):
Absolutely.
Tim (29:36):
So, uh, but that gets back to the whole idea of being
authentic in who you are, tooRight I mean, because when you,
as as we, as we talk about thesethings and and I've said
multiple times, you know to you,to you and on some of the other
things, I use self-deprecatinghumor because that's just who I
(29:59):
am, but that's also somethingfor me to that keeps me on track
.
I get a thought.
What happens when I get athought?
I go to ChatGPT or I open upanother app and I do it with
messages, like with with my wife.
I'll say, jen, remind me tothis when I get home, remind me
(30:20):
to do this or remind me to putthis into whatever it is.
And so it's.
It's understanding how weoperate so that we can be
authentic when we show up.
Shirlee (30:33):
Absolutely yeah, and telling us stories of your life
too.
And that's also where the wholeidea of you know being in the
moment a little bit more comesin, because that whole packaged,
manufactured image is reallyout in 2025.
But there is a skill in makingsure that even in those moments
(30:53):
that come across that might seemlike you know, oh, this just
happened today, you still wantto weave in the overall message
that you have, especially as abusiness owner, as an
entrepreneur, because ultimately, you are marketing all the time
, right?
Whether you like it or not.
That's what this is.
It's marketing.
You know, people don't just showup on social media all the time
(31:16):
for fun.
They usually have, you know,some kind of reason to do that,
and that's not always a businessreason.
Sometimes it's a visibilityreason, it's a fan base reason.
Whatever it is, you areexpressing yourself, but they're
always, to really be successfulat it has to be a through line,
right.
And so I think it's importantto just not to take the time to
(31:39):
ideate, take those great nuggetsand ideas that you get that
come to you like us.
You know creative people andpeople who don't always think in
a linear way, but take the timeto really develop that, because
you know the iteration, that'sjust, you just throw it out.
There is only part of what itcould be if you actually took
the time to really think about.
(32:00):
How does this play into mybroader message and how can I
turn this into you know, aspecific type of content that
can actually have a purpose,right?
Tim (32:10):
Right, right.
So what's your process in termsof creating content, you know,
from the idea perspective?
Um, because I think you come upwith with really great stuff, I
mean it's.
I mean, I mean you're, you'reno watching people eat, type of
video, type of thing yeah,probably not.
(32:30):
Not, not on my channel, yeah butbut you, you always have really
good ideas that that make.
But then again, it just memakes me think about some of the
things that I'm doing and how Igo about things.
So so what's your process incoming up with these types of
ideas?
Shirlee (32:49):
Yeah, I think it.
It really comes down to.
I have three main pillars ofall of my messaging, and you
mentioned some of them off thetop what to say?
So that's anything related tomessaging.
How to say it, that's anythingrelated to being on camera body
language, eye contact, voice,backgrounds.
(33:13):
And then how to create buzz, sothat's you know, pitching media
, podcasts and stages, how toland those things, who to pitch.
How okay, you got it.
That's fabulous.
How do you sound good?
How do you, you know, make themost of that appearance?
What do you do after?
So everything I talk aboutfalls under one of those three
pillars.
And then being very strategic,with having a really deep
(33:34):
understanding of the audienceand the people who are watching.
And then I run a business.
So who are the clients who I'mspeaking to and what are they
going through?
Because I think a mistake thata lot of people make is they
make their content all aboutthem.
Right, I do this or I do that,or I know this, I know that.
I'm going to teach you.
This is how I do this andthat's great.
(33:56):
But if I'm watching as anaudience member, I want to know
what's in it for me.
I mean, at the end of the day,you're either asking people for
their time or their money orboth, and so, even if you're not
a business owner, you're stillasking, you're still selling,
you're still selling people togive you their time, to give you
the time of day to stopscrolling right.
(34:17):
So I think it's about knowingyour pillars, knowing your
audience and then being able topresent the information in a way
that you know speaks to thatperson or that type of person
that you're trying to reach.
Because a lot of people I findas well, kind of use the
LinkedIn speak.
I like to say, you know, theydon't say it in a conversational
(34:39):
way, the way like an actualperson would talk, and that was
a skill I really honed as ajournalist because it was beat
into me.
I would show up with a scriptand they'd be like what does
that mean?
It means this OK, say thatRight.
So I'm now I do that withclients I'm like, ok, what does
that actually mean?
And if you think about yourmessaging as an onion like
there's always layers of theonion you can peel back to
(35:02):
really get to the heart of whatit is that you're trying to say,
and so I think that's so, so,so important and just rooting
everything you say and it goesback to one of those pillars in
your messaging.
Tim (35:16):
And again, so important and so glad you said those things.
I mean you've got your pillars,but it doesn't matter which
pillar you're dealing with.
You have to know who youraudience is.
You have to know how to touchthem, how to communicate with
them, how they're going toreceive that message.
So I mean you could have thosepillars and you could have
incredible content, incrediblemessaging, but if you're not
(35:39):
actually targeting the rightpeople, if you don't know who it
is that you're trying to target, it doesn't really matter, it's
just going out into the ether.
Shirlee (35:47):
You just waste all the time, effort and I think another
key piece of this that a lot ofpeople don't think about,
especially people who came ofage in the generation of the
traditional advertising.
You think about the madmen insuits and they're scribbling on
the back of a napkin with a cupof scotch and they're like in a
back room and then suddenly theyemerge and they're like here's
the campaign and then it goesout.
(36:08):
We live in a very democraticsocial media world where your
audience will tell you if it'sgood.
You don't get to decide if it'sgood.
A lot of times I'll putsomething out there and I'm like
, no, this is pretty good.
And I'll put it out there andI'll be like, oh, it didn't
really land.
Or I'll put something out andI'll be like this wasn't very
good and it just goes.
(36:29):
People love it.
So I think that the creatorsthat really get it, and the ones
that succeed and the ones thatgrow, are the ones that are
constantly analyzing how didthis land with the audience?
You know what was the, not justlikes, and you know some of the
vanity metrics.
But is this resonating?
And if it's not resonating,that should tell you something,
(36:50):
because the ultimate deciders ofwhether your content is
effective is not other peoplewho you know are watching you
and criticizing you or thinkthey can advise you.
It's the people who you'retargeting.
What better way to know if it'sworking than with your audience?
And so I think that the peoplewho really succeed are the ones
(37:10):
who are constantly really havetheir finger on the pulse of
what is resonating, and then youcreate more of that.
So that means that sometimesyou're not going to use, you're
not going to speak to all ofyour pillars equally.
Maybe there's a pillar thatgets way more engagement, or
your audience.
Kind of use your audience andlet them guide you to what they
(37:32):
want, because that's again oneof the mistakes that
entrepreneurs make is they goout there and they do what they
want to do, and obviously youknow you have to be passionate
about it, you have to be anexpert if you're purporting to
be an expert, but it's aboutunderstanding what the market
wants, and content is much thesame.
Tim (37:51):
Yeah, and you said something at the beginning.
There, you know, what you putout could land, could not land,
and those that are successful,those that are also successful,
aren't worried about how theylook.
They're going to put it out,they're just going to do it.
They're just going to put itout there and obviously, there,
(38:13):
there, there's a plan for whatthey do, but they're just going
to put it out, and if it doesn'tresonate, it doesn't resonate,
but they're still just going toput it out, yeah, out, and if it
doesn't resonate, doesn'tresonate, but they're still just
going to put it out.
Yeah, and that's something thatmy, my audience in particular,
really struggles with.
Well, they don't, they, theydon't take that step forward of
actually following through anddoing the thing.
(38:34):
What?
Whether it's um, getting up onstage, what?
Whether it's doing a video,whether it's whatever it is,
they talk about it, they preparefor it and then, whatever it is
, they hold themselves back.
Shirlee (38:48):
Yeah, I see that a lot with clients as well.
I'll often say to them get offthe page, which is it's a form
of procrastination and it's aform of staying safe.
You know, and there's lots ofdifferent examples of this, not
just in me showing up on youknow video and in public
speaking, but it's you feel aresistance to doing something
(39:12):
that puts you outside yourcomfort zone or where your brain
thinks this is not safe for me.
Safe for me and, I think, a lotof people who are looking to
get out there but don'tnecessarily have the confidence
or want that spotlight, you know, because not all entrepreneurs
want to be out there in thespotlight all the time.
They want clients but theydon't want to have to you know,
(39:32):
dance on video, so to speak.
It's about getting outside yourcomfort zone, because people
will appreciate it, and lettinggo of perfection, and it would
be such a lie to say, oh,there's going to be a time that
you don't care how you look.
I mean, I keep moving my bangsout of my face because they're
driving me nuts, but here I am,I'm live for you know, taped
(39:54):
live on a podcast.
You're never going to stopcaring how you look, but you are
going to get to a point whereyou're comfortable being
yourself, warts and all, as theysay, in front of the audience,
and your audience will rewardyou for that.
Tim (40:12):
So do you ever find yourself in that position where
you have created something andyou don't?
You're ready to put it out, butthen you don't, for whatever
reason?
Shirlee (40:23):
All the time there is a there's a graveyard of reels
that I have filmed over the overthe the years, that that just
live on my phone, and every sooften I'll come across one of
them and be like, why didn't Iever put this out?
You know, sometimes, becauseyou know there's it's very
important to get into the habitof filming B-roll of yourself,
so video of you just doing yourthing, because you never know
(40:47):
where it's going to come inhandy.
So I do film a lot of thingsthat don't see the light of day
because they're like just incase videos, and you know it is
a good point to go back to someof them and and see how they can
be used.
But absolutely a good point togo back to some of them and and
see how they can be used.
But absolutely there's lots ofthings that I've filmed that
have never been released, andI'll bet you that's there are
(41:07):
probably a lot of missedopportunities in there, too, of
things that I just wasn't sure,like right now.
Um, I've been doing a lot ofInstagram stories lately and you
know they have that one minutetimer and and if you go beyond
the one minute, then and what wewere saying earlier, you know
you have that line that's beingtraced around the circle and
(41:28):
it's coming up to the end, butbecause I'm looking at the
camera I don't see when it's atthe end, so I always get cut off
.
Well, I could get all in myhead and not put it out, but
I'll just be like oops, got cutoff there and just keep going.
It put it out, but I'll just belike oops, got cut off there
and just keep going.
It's also a way to get peopleto keep watching from story to
story.
But, um, yeah, I mean it's, andand how many other people are
(41:48):
going to see that?
And be like, oh, that happensto me too, right?
Tim (41:51):
exactly, and you'll probably get a laughing emoji or
what have you?
Yep, yeah, yeah.
I wish you hadn't said theb-roll thing, because I try and
put that.
I'm trying to block that outbecause I know that I have to do
that.
I know, but that's somethingthat I hate doing.
I don't like doing it, I don'twant to do it, and so for me
that's a big pain point for methat I just nobody wants to see
(42:16):
me walking around doing whateverI do.
Shirlee (42:19):
I don't want to see me.
Tim (42:19):
So it's those things that we know we, whatever I do, I
don't want to see me, so so it's.
It's those things that we knowwe need to do.
We have to figure out a way toget over it.
And that happens, just so theaudience knows it happens to
everybody.
You are not unique withsomething that you hate doing,
don't want to do, don't feelcomfortable doing whatever it is
.
We all go through it.
We all have to figure out a wayto get over it, to be able to
(42:40):
move forward.
Shirlee (42:41):
Yeah, and I think with something like that, that's
where batching comes in.
So, so well, it's like who?
I don't like having to rememberto do that either.
Uh, because sometimes I don'thave.
There are some days where Iwake up and I'm not filming that
day, right.
So maybe I'm in my pajamas andhaven't showered and haven't put
my face on, and so the best wayaround that is to set a day
(43:03):
where you're like I'm going tofilm B-roll on this day, right
and how, whether, that's, youknow, once a month or once every
two weeks or whatever it is,and having that planning, that
foresight of being like whatkind of B-roll do I need for my
content?
And then carving out timespecifically to do that.
And then you build up a bank ofcontent, a bank of B-roll, a
(43:25):
B-roll bank, I call it, and thatis something you can draw on
over and over again.
And so you know, how manydifferent shots do you need of
you typing at a computer?
Because that's what a lot of usdo, right?
Like we sit at computers allday.
So why not have a few differentshirts and, and you know, swap
them out and do a session whereyou film a bunch of stuff of you
(43:46):
on a computer, in differentangles, different shirts.
You know, and then it's done.
You don't have to do it again,for you know a month, two months
, whatever so you get a newshirt yeah, you get a new shirt,
or more than one shirt?
Yeah, exactly.
Tim (44:02):
I was at a conference a couple of weeks maybe it's
recently, just to put it thatway and I was proud of myself
because I told my, my friend,who was actually running the
conference, and make sure yousend me video and pictures,
cause I'm going to need them,yeah, and so I remember to have
somebody else do it.
Shirlee (44:23):
Yes, yes, that's so important and sometimes it can
feel a little awkward.
So I spoke at, you know, in myinterior design capacity.
I spoke at a trade show andit's not the kind of show where
there's like cameras around andfilming and stuff.
But I actually hired someone tocome and film the presentation
(44:46):
and, you know, walked in withthe camera and all that and it's
you know, hi, you know, but Ineeded that video, right?
I mean, that's that's how weshow our brands, that's how we
show what we're doing, andpeople love being a fly on the
wall in that type of situation.
Show what we're doing, andpeople love being a fly on the
wall in that type of situation.
So, you know, whenever there'san opportunity to film yourself
in action, whatever it is thatyou do, no matter what you want
(45:09):
to have that B-roll for it'salways nice to have, because you
know we talk about sizzle reelslike what better way to talk
about yourself and what you dothan have video of you in action
, doing your thing and speakingopportunities, whether it's on a
stage, on a podcast, you know,whatever at a conference,
whatever it is, even being at aconference, that is golden
(45:30):
opportunity to show you out andabout and mingling and with
people, rather than having tojust, oh, what am I going to put
here?
I'm going to get some stockfootage or, you know, I'll just
have my mug on on video thewhole time.
It just makes it more dynamic.
So, you know, and, and so manytimes I'll have clients tell me,
(45:54):
you know, like, oh, I went onthis vacation and we did this
incredible thing.
And I'll be like, did you getsome video?
No, why not?
And and a lot of people don'tthink about that right, like
they're on vacation, that that'snot the first thing on their
minds.
Tim (46:04):
But you never know when that type of visual might come
in handy in your marketingexactly, and even with even if
you have good stock footage,when you, when you weave it into
other b-roll, it looks likestock oh yeah, people can tell
you can tell it's, it justdoesn't.
Even if it's really good stuff,it doesn't have the same look,
(46:25):
it doesn't have the same, not atall it doesn't have the same,
so again.
But I don't want to dissuadepeople from using stock footage.
If you need to use it, use it,but you're much better off if
you have actual B-roll footageof whatever it is that you're
trying to show.
Shirlee (46:41):
Couldn't agree more yeah, absolutely.
Tim (46:45):
Well, Shirley, you've got some really good things going on
with what you're doing.
What are they?
Shirlee (46:52):
Well, I have just released a longer version of a
signature challenge that you didand that a lot of entrepreneurs
have enjoyed, called sizzlereal school.
It is the one video that I wouldsay every single brand needs.
It's your trailer for yourbusiness, for your channel.
(47:12):
If you're a youtuber, if youhave a youtube presence or
wherever it is that that youwant to show your personal brand
, having that brand trailer isso critical.
So what we've done is takenthis five-day challenge that
people love so much and we'veexpanded it into a course where
people can take a little bitlonger, have access to me on
live calls and create that standout brand video to really make
(47:35):
their brand shine.
And the nice thing about sizzlereels is that once you learn
the process, once you learnabout this type of video, you
start to understand that there'sseveral kinds of sizzle reels
you can create for your business, and once you've done one, the
floodgates are really open tomake all of your videos that
much better.
So we're super excited torelease this, and we've got just
(47:57):
some incredible entrepreneursdoing some really great things
with their sizzle reels, and sothis has just been a passion
project of mine.
Tim (48:05):
It's an extension of what I did every day as a journalist
and it's just really such anhonor and pleasure to be able to
help business owners tell theirstories because, as I've made
some changes and transitionsover the last five, six years
(48:25):
taking courses, taking onlinecourses, taking in-person
courses the Sizzle Real School,without a doubt, had probably
some of the best value inanything I've done educationally
in the last five or six years.
Wow, Thank you so much.
That's five to six years.
Shirlee (48:38):
Wow, that's thank you so much.
Tim (48:40):
That's amazing, Because well, you have to enroll to
figure this out though, okay, sodon't just take my word for it
and enroll in it.
But you not only did you teachskills, but the way you went
about it to get me over some ofthose hurdles that I have for
myself, like I don't have nearlyas much resting bitch facing so
(49:02):
I have some, but not nearly asmuch.
I'm a little bit morecomfortable in front of the
camera, and the process of, ofbuilding the scissor reel is has
opened my eyes up to, like yousaid, building for a number of
different opportunities.
You know, I know one of thethings that you talk about is an
(49:24):
elevator pitch, and so in myprevious life as a college
professor, we did those.
I've got a process that helpedthem, and one of the things that
I'm doing is I'm combining,combining the whole idea of the
elevator pitch into the sizzlereel to.
You know, a 45 second sizzlereel, 45 seconds is all you get,
(49:49):
and and and some of the some ofthe good things that have have
come from that, you know, forfor some of my clients, has been
amazing.
So again, enroll in sizzle reelschool.
I mean you, you, the value, thevalue that's there is.
It's unbeatable, it really is.
Thank you.
Shirlee (50:08):
Yeah, I mean it's great .
We'd love to have as manyentrepreneurs go through this as
possible, because I'm really ona mission to you know, bring
this type of skillset toentrepreneurs, because a lot of
you know type of skill set toentrepreneurs because a lot of
you know production companies.
You can go outsource filming avideo.
It costs thousands, if not tensof thousands, of dollars to
create a video for your brandand in 2025, you don't need to
(50:32):
spend that kind of money.
Um, you know that story iswithin, but you just need the
right guidance.
You need process, you need tounderstand what makes a good
video, how to put that togetherand, as you'll attest, there's
beginner, intermediate and pro.
There's no previous experiencerequired and entrepreneurs are
using these reels for all kindsof incredible uses and they're
(50:55):
really helping people tell theirstories and have this one
central place that you candirect a prospective client or
someone to learn more about you.
And what better way to do thatthan through, like a movie style
trailer for your business?
Right?
Tim (51:10):
Yeah, and on top of it they get your feedback, they get
feedback from other people thatare in the course, so you're
getting a lot of feedback that'sgoing to help you get better,
help you make it better, helpyou build that confidence of
being in front of the camera,telling that story, putting it
together and, like you say, youdon't need all kinds of
expensive equipment, expensivecomputer programs to do this.
(51:34):
It's really not that hard.
Shirlee (51:37):
Exactly?
Yeah, not at all.
We don't make you buy anything.
Tim (51:44):
Well, shirley, that's great .
I really do appreciate it.
And where can people find youto register for a sizzle reel or
if they want to work with youwith Camera, confident or any of
your other programs?
Shirlee (51:53):
Yeah, so I mostly hang out on YouTube.
I have a YouTube channel whichwe can link to in the show notes
, and would also love to hearfrom people on LinkedIn.
They're linked to each other,so if you go to my YouTube,
there's a link there where youcan find me on LinkedIn.
On LinkedIn, I'm Shirley Engel.
My DMs are open and I loveconnecting with people, so you
know those are usually the bestplaces to find me, but I hang
(52:15):
out on most of the platforms.
Tim (52:17):
Yeah, and again, I don't say this often, but when I do
say it I mean it Make sure youfollow Shirley, because she does
.
The content that she puts outis really good.
It makes you think it helps.
It's going to help you inwhatever area that you're
looking for, especially withbeing confident on camera.
(52:38):
I mean it's.
She does really good stuff.
Shirlee (52:40):
Thank you, tim, that's so kind of you.
Tim (52:42):
Well, take care, and we'll talk to you soon, shirley.
Shirlee (52:45):
Thank you.
Thanks so much for having meand have a great rest of the day
.
Tim (52:49):
Be sure to visit speakingwithconfidencepodcastcom
to get your free ebook Top 21Challenges for Public Speakers
and how to Overcome them.
You can also register for theforum for public speaking.
Always remember, your voice haspower changers.
We'll talk to you next time.
Welcome back to Speaking with Confidence, the podcast
that helps you build the softskills that lead to real results
Communication, storytelling,public speaking and showing up
with confidence in everyconversation that counts.
I'm Tim Newman, a recoveringcollege professor turned
communication coach, and I'mthrilled to guide you on your
journey to becoming a powerfulcommunicator.
I want to thank each and everyone of you for your support.
It truly means the world to me.
(00:29):
If you have questions or if youwant something covered on the
podcast, just send me a message.
Please visit timnewmanspeakscomto get your free e-book.
Top 21 Challenges for PublicSpeakers and how to Overcome
them.
Today's guest is Shirley Engeland how to overcome them.
Today's guest is Shirley Engel.
Shirley is the CEO and founderof Camera Confident, where she
helps entrepreneurs and smallbusiness owners master their
(00:50):
on-camera presence and attractmore clients through video and
visibility opportunities.
A former TV reporter turnedentrepreneur, shirley knows that
confidence isn't just aboutwhat you say.
It's about how you say it.
She's helped countlessprofessionals refine their
messaging, tell compellingstories and show up powerfully
on video, on stage and in themedia.
Today, she's here to share howyou can speak with confidence
(01:14):
and turn your presence intoprofit.
Shirley, welcome to the show.
I've been waiting for this fora long time.
Shirlee (01:21):
Thanks so much for having me, Tim.
I'm so excited we're finallygetting to do this.
Tim (01:25):
Yeah, I mean.
So we've had a little bit ofhistory of taking your sizzle
real school class and, and youknow, we, we've talked to one
and all for a number ofdifferent things and I think
you're you're going to bring aton of value to our audience
because, as you know, you knowI've got, I've got the standard
resting bitch face on camera andget a little bit better with it
(01:45):
.
We're, you know, we're babystepping as as we go through
this uh, it's all perception tim.
Shirlee (01:52):
You know that that's the first place I would start is
to stop stop saying that it isfunny though it's, it's
hilarious.
Tim (02:00):
uh, I'll leave that there for now, but but know you've
been in the content creationbusiness, you know for a long
time and I'm not sure peopletruly understand what or how
local TV news reporters gettheir stories on air.
It's almost like when you're aone woman band.
Shirlee (02:20):
I certainly started that way.
Yeah, and it's so interestingbecause that is changing and has
changed even since I've leftthe business.
But yeah, I started doingeverything like from, you know,
getting the coffee to filming,to reporting, to editing.
And I was thrown in on my veryfirst day at an actual job where
I was paid to do it and wastold, okay, get a story on the
(02:42):
air by the end of the day.
And I looked at the editmachine and was like, how do you
work this thing?
So, yeah, definitely.
Tim (02:50):
But so how have things changed from, you know, being a,
a, a newscaster, a newsreporter, to being on camera as
an entrepreneur?
Now, obviously, a lot of thingsaren't the same, but are there
any things that weretransferable?
Shirlee (03:06):
Yeah, lots of things were transferable.
One of the biggest things isthe ability to tell stories.
A lot of people, especially intoday's day of social media and
we're told the shorter thebetter people have two to three
minute attention spans and allthe things.
I think people have lost sightof what storytelling means and
(03:27):
people don't think storytellingis important anymore, and I
would argue it's more importantthan ever now, especially with
the advent of AI and so muchcontent is written with AI.
Now we even have like AI B-roll, ai video, all that kind of
stuff that now telling storiesand being authentic is so
important.
Speaking of authenticity, though, not that being a reporter,
(03:50):
you're not authentic, but you dohave like a persona.
So when I first started as anentrepreneur, people would say,
oh, it's your reporter voiceagain, and I was like that's not
a good thing.
That's not a good thing whenI'm trying to connect with an
audience, as myself, as as acoach, as someone who wants to
connect with people.
You know, delivering the newsis one thing.
(04:11):
You're not allowed to have anopinion.
You're not allowed to revealwhat you think about something
or reveal any emotion aboutsomething.
All of those things are socritical to connecting on video
as an entrepreneur, as a contentcreator, as a thought leader.
It's really what makes youhuman and what attracts people
to you, especially now.
So there were definitely a lotof transferable skills in terms
(04:35):
of the technical know-how andwriting all of that kind of
stuff.
But you know there are crucialdifferences as well.
Tim (04:44):
Yeah.
So what was it like for thefirst time you were in front of
the camera, knowing that it wasgoing to be be broadcast as a
newscaster.
Shirlee (04:51):
Oh well, let's just say I wasn't confident.
Uh, you know that feeling whenyou're about to go on TV or on
video or on camera, maybe youdon't know on TV and and your
heart's beating so fast thatyou're like, is the microphone
picking up the heartbeat?
Because this is reallyembarrassing, you know, and
you're convinced that peoplewill hear your heart beating
through your voice.
Well, I felt all of that and Ifelt very awkward.
(05:14):
And my introduction to TVjournalism was a lot of being
live, where things werehappening.
So there was no such thing aslike a retake or a redo.
And back in that day as well notthat I'm that old, but I'm old
enough that it was beforedigital.
So there were actual tapes wewere filming on.
So it's not like now you canjust do 1000 takes, like we
(05:37):
didn't have all the tape in theworld.
So a lot of it was just sort of.
You know, you aim for as goodas you can be.
And the deadline was almost agood thing because it didn't
allow you to overthink it likeit had to go out.
And I always encourage clientsto treat their content much in
the same way, because if you'rein your head and you're
constantly thinking, oh, I wantto do this again.
(05:59):
I didn't like that take.
People are always like, oh, Idid 100 takes before I did that
one and I'm like why are youdoing a hundred takes?
There's no reason to do ahundred takes.
Even if you mess up, it's humanright.
Tim (06:16):
So that was a good introduction and really after
probably at least with me, afterlike a third take, if it's not
right and I'm not going to useit, I have to walk away because
it just gets the emotion, goesout of it.
I mean it just doesn't evenfeel natural anymore.
Shirlee (06:26):
Yeah.
Tim (06:27):
So if you're going to do take after take like I do,
sometimes I have to walk awayand then come back to it.
You know, come back to it later.
Let's just put it that wayExactly.
Shirlee (06:36):
Just be confident about it and just say the thing, say
whatever it is that you're goingto say yeah and say it with
meaning, say it like you weregoing to say it to someone else,
right?
Because if you're having aconversation you don't say, oh,
can I just take that back andsay that again Like we don't do
that.
So it shouldn't be anydifferent on camera.
I know that's easier said thandone, but it's definitely a put
(06:59):
in the reps and you get betterkind of thing.
Tim (07:02):
Yeah, did you have some of the same feelings, going from
being a newscaster to be anentrepreneur, in front of the
camera, knowing that there wasgoing to be that little bit of a
transition?
Shirlee (07:12):
Not really.
No, I, I didn't.
And I think it was almost arelief to be out there.
You know, the first businessthat I launched was an interior
design firm and I was showing upon Instagram and I was just
being me and I was doing mything and I actually found that
I had missed it, you know,because I had spent a few years
working in executive consultingand coaching um and and worked
(07:34):
in public affairs and I wasreally excited to get back into
it.
And then I started appearinglive on a morning television
show as an interior designexpert and just talking about
design and you know, it's kindof like riding a bike, it just
it just came back and it wasmore fun because I could smile,
you know, I could, I could emote, I could use my hands a little
(07:57):
more.
I wasn't looking straight,that's the other thing.
I wasn't looking straight intothe camera, I was talking to
someone else.
So I felt almost I would saythe camera, I was talking to
someone else, so I felt almost Iwould say the opposite, like it
was.
It just felt very natural.
But that's because I had beendoing it in a staged kind of way
for so long.
Tim (08:14):
Right.
So you know, and you know we'vetalked about this before.
You know, for me, I like to beable to see the person who I'm
talking to, and you know, whenwe're doing this, you know I've
got to be looking at the camera,as opposed to over here looking
at you and watching your facialexpressions, and and so, for me
(08:35):
, I lose some of some of the,some of the meaning, some of the
emotion, some of those thingsat times.
So how can we, if how can we,look at the camera and and truly
be able to be authentic and andshare how we want to share, so
that it comes across almostnaturally?
Shirlee (08:53):
Yeah, and I love that you set it up that way, because
right now you and I arerecording on a platform.
We're both in boxes for thosepeople who maybe can't see the
backend, and as you're talking,I'm not actually looking at you,
I'm looking at the green light,because if I look at you, this
is what it looks like and I losethe eye contact with the viewer
(09:13):
, right.
So that's something that evenif you're not someone doing on
camera stuff, if you're on Zoomcalls, if you're doing client
meetings, like whatever kind ofspeaking you're doing, people
often forget that you've got tolook people in the eye, even
virtually, and if you thinkabout it, if you both do that,
you're not actually looking ateach other.
The way I get around that andthis is something that takes
(09:35):
practice is you picture theperson Like the lens is not a
lens.
I always think someone's behindthe camera and you're actually
speaking through the camera tothat person rather than talking
to a lens, because I think thatwhen you do that, you lose a
little bit of that.
But you know, it is one ofthose kind of like walking and
(09:55):
chewing gum at the same time, orlike tapping your head and
rubbing your stomach at the sametime You're it's a little bit
of a mind bender, but it'sabsolutely critical to maintain
that, especially if you'rerecording something that's then
going to go out.
Ultimately, it's about theaudience, it's about the viewer,
and you want to make sure thatthe viewer experiences that as
(10:17):
an interaction that feelsnatural, even if it doesn't feel
natural to you recording it.
Tim (10:23):
Yeah, and for me that's one of the hardest things to get
over and I'm getting natural toyou recording it.
Yeah, and that's what.
For me, that's one of thehardest things to get over and
I'm getting a lot better at it.
You know, doing this podcastfor a little over a year now and
having taken your sizzle, realschool and and learn some of
those, some of those things, butit's it's still kind of it's
still kind of not natural but it, but I think it's just like
(10:46):
anything else, the more you doit, the more practice that you
do it, the better you get at it?
Shirlee (10:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
It's like you know, if you wantto go to the gym and you say,
well, I can't go to the gymcause I'm not in shape yet, but
then you got to go to the gym,you're not just going to get a
six pack the first time you goto the gym, right, and so that
sounds ridiculous.
We're laughing at that.
But a lot of people say, well,you know, I can't put out videos
yet because I'm not, I don'tfeel comfortable or confident,
(11:13):
or I can't show up, and it'slike, well, how do you think
you're going to get there?
You've got to do the thing.
It's like anything, right?
I mean even the most magneticspeakers that you see out there
on video on stages.
They didn't start that way.
And if you want proof, go totheir social channels and scroll
way down like way, way down, asfar down as you can go, and
(11:33):
guaranteed you're going to seesome pretty awful takes that
they had at the beginning.
None of us are born like this.
I mean, some people do have anatural talent, but even that
needs to be honed.
There's a mastery to it.
Tim (11:47):
That's right, and that's the other thing that people need
to understand.
If you do have some naturaltalent, it doesn't mean that you
just rely on that.
Most people who you know, whoare like us, you know type A,
you know the entrepreneurialspirit, who want to progress in
life.
We work on things.
You have to get better at it.
You can't we don't just rest onour laurels and think that
(12:10):
that's going to be good enoughto get us to where we want to be
.
Shirlee (12:13):
Yeah, and I think, especially now I'm trying to do
this in my own content.
I spend a lot of time talkingabout and filming and showing
the not so polished aspects.
You know, I published a YouTubevideo yesterday and there was a
mistake in one of the graphicsand somebody reached out to me
on LinkedIn to tell me and Icould have panicked and, oh God,
(12:34):
they're going to think I'm not.
You know, they're going tothink I didn't pay attention or
whatever they're going to think.
You know, we always have thatin my head oh, what if people
are going to judge?
And so instead I filmed contentabout how I go about correcting
that, and I had so many peoplereach out to me after and be
like you know, I'm so glad tosee that.
Thank you for showing that.
You know, people are sograteful for those moments and
(12:57):
this.
I teach this stuff Right, um,and so I could easily be in my
head and be like, oh, it's gotto be perfect, because if it's
not, then people are going tothink I'm a fraud or they're not
going to think I think I don'tknow what I'm talking about.
I think, if anything, peopleappreciate knowing that even
people who have quote unquotemastered this.
I mean you never.
(13:18):
To me it's also a constantevolution, like you're
constantly working at it.
I love the gym analogy, becauseit's the same thing.
I mean you might get intoamazing shape, but if you don't
keep going and keep it up,you're going to lose that Right,
and so being on camera is a lotvery similar to that, and
public speaking is similar tothat.
When I first started back intobeing out there and being on TV
(13:43):
and being on video after alittle hiatus like I had to get
back into it I had to rememberhow to speak and, so to speak.
I mean it comes faster whenyou've done it before, but there
still is a ramping up period,for sure.
Tim (13:58):
Well, you know, I like that you talk about our mistakes or
our mess ups or not necessarilyfeeling comfortable.
You do a lot of that type ofcontent.
Like a month or so ago, you putsomething out about, you know,
doing a photo shoot in publichealth.
Sometimes it feels like we'rebeing looked at and judged and
we kind of go through that.
(14:18):
But the whole idea is don'tworry about it, just keep being.
You Do the things that you haveto do.
And then you did one where yourdaughter was putting makeup on
you.
Um, yeah, and and truth be told, I've I've been that too my
daughter put makeup on me notred lipstick.
Shirlee (14:37):
I hope like me.
Tim (14:38):
Yes, oh, okay and you know my granddaughters will paint my
fingernails.
You know it is what it is andit looks like you know a kid did
it.
But we have to be okay withthose sometimes that we're not
perfect, that we're not.
We don't show up how we want toshow up, but at least we're
(15:02):
showing up.
Shirlee (15:04):
Yeah, but I think it goes further than that, tim.
I think it's necessary, I thinkit makes you human and you know
, especially if you're anentrepreneur or you're someone
who's you know, a consultant orsomeone who relies on visibility
for clients or income, you needto create connection,
especially with people who don'tknow you, and I can't count how
(15:26):
many times I've met people andthey've been like hey, even even
in Phoenix.
The other day I was in Phoenixfor a conference and some people
were like hey, it's Shirley.
Like it's like they know youalready.
Well, how did they know me?
I didn't necessarily know whothey were, but it's because in
my content I speak to the camera, like I'm speaking directly to
them.
(15:46):
So people feel and I felt thisas an interior designer as well,
when I would go on and talkabout design on TV and then I'd
go to a client's house andthey'd be like hey, how's it
going?
And there was that feeling oflike we already know each other
and I'm meeting this person forthe first time.
And that's what you absolutelyneed, because there are lots of
other people doing what you'redoing.
(16:06):
I mean, none of us are.
You know, there's very, veryfew, if any, niches where it's
like oh, you're the only persondoing that, right?
So what distinguishes you fromthose people?
It's you as a person, becausethe other thing that a lot of
people used to rely on,particularly in the coaching
space and in the knowledge-basedeconomy, was knowledge, that
(16:28):
transfer of knowledge.
Well, guess what?
Knowledge is free now.
You don't even have to pay forit.
Anything I ever want to know, Ican go into ChatGPT, and it's
not just about, like you know,tell me the best restaurants in
downtown Phoenix.
It's analyze this for me.
And, like you know, tell me thebest restaurants in downtown
Phoenix.
It's analyze this for me andgive you know.
So, in the absence of beingable to like, you can still sell
(16:49):
that knowledge.
But when people can get thatfor free from AI, what do they
get from you that they're notable to get somewhere else?
Well, they get you.
So the era of the personalbrand, I would say, is we're in
that, the height of the era ofthe personal brand, because
that's what we've got to sellnow, in 2025.
Tim (17:10):
Yeah, and again, just take that.
That next step further is, likeyou said, it's about that
personal connection.
We, we, we rely on AI, we relyon technology, but there's no
getting around that personaltouch, that personal connection,
those personal relationships.
Shirlee (17:29):
Absolutely.
Tim (17:29):
You just can't, and so you have to be able to communicate.
You have to be able to connectwith people on whatever level
that they're, on whatever levelthat they're on.
Shirlee (17:41):
Yeah, and that's what comes back to storytelling.
You know, and a lot of people,especially I find clients who
come to me and I ask them abouttheir stories because we want to
, you know, develop theirmessaging and you and I did this
too in sizzle real school.
You know what's your story andpeople think, okay, what's a
story I have and they reallystart to get in their heads
about it and it has to be a goodstory and it has to be the best
(18:03):
story and it has to beinteresting.
And people don't realize thateven what they consider as a
mundane story could be a veryimpactful and relatable story to
someone else.
Like I was taking my daughterto school the other day and, you
know, whatever.
So it doesn't have to be thisepic hero's journey.
People love even the mundane.
(18:25):
You know, I was listening to apodcast the other day where
someone was talking about howthere's this trend of people
being obsessed with watchingpeople eating things in reels.
I don't understand this myself,but like, how just mundane and
basic is someone eating ahamburger?
But, you know, maybe there'sdetails around it, maybe it's
(18:46):
the type of hamburger they get,maybe it's the specific place
they got it.
That is new in that community,or maybe you know they're
wearing a really nice shirt andthey drip something Like these
things that we don't think arethat important, are so relatable
, that we don't think are thatimportant, are so relatable, and
they make people say, yeah, oh,my God, Right, and it doesn't
have to be this big epic story,and so that's, I think, such an
(19:10):
important thing to weave throughyour content and wherever
you're speaking, because that'sthat's your currency.
Your, your stories are yourcurrency now, not your knowledge
.
Tim (19:20):
Yeah, Stories are your currency now not your knowledge.
Yeah, that's at least forsomebody from my generation.
That's hard to, that's a toughhurdle to get over.
You know, just from thatperspective, you know we've had
YouTube for I don't know howmany years.
We've had Google, for I don'tknow how many years, but it's
(19:51):
really the last four to fiveyears that what you're saying
has really become our, our newreality.
And you know, when you know forfirst, people in my generation,
I think people would come to usfor our knowledge.
And now we have to, we as, asentrepreneurs, we we've got to,
we've got to be able to pivotand understand that and, like
you said, go in this otherdirection.
Shirlee (20:07):
Yeah, and we also have to create content at scale.
That's another thing is, youknow, I have people who are like
, oh, I don't want to use AI.
And I am very much pro-AI, notjust for ideation and
brainstorming and all thosewonderful things in the process
of developing what you're goingto say, but also just in the
(20:29):
systems that get your messagesout there, because if you're not
using these things, then youare being left behind, because
humans can't physically keep upwith the pace of what AI can do
and there's new things comingout every day.
I mean, it just really blows mymind.
But you know, I think it'ssomething to embrace.
There are certain aspects of itthat you know maybe we don't
(20:52):
embrace, but definitely in thepublic speaking realm, it allows
you, from a visibilityperspective, to do a lot more.
Tim (21:01):
Yeah, so what tools are you using and how are you using
them?
Shirlee (21:04):
Yeah, so many tools.
I'm one of those people thatlike wants to know how to use
them all and then I pick thebest ones.
I always, no matter what I, youknow, learn about.
I always go back to chat GPTand the most powerful thing that
I've done that a lot of peopledo is create a custom GPT in my
brand voice.
So you know, if you have thepay, you need the paid version
(21:26):
of ChatGPT to do this and youcan create a custom GPT and
train it to speak like you.
If you've been using ChatGPTfor a long time, it may already
do that, because ChatGPT eventhere was at the time of this,
recording an update that cameout, where it remembers even
better the stuff you've told itbefore.
But if you've neverdeliberately fed it a brand
(21:47):
guide or you want it to pullfrom a very specific type of
voice that you speak in, orexamples of some posts you've
done before transcripts, thingslike that, using AI to come up
with first drafts and ideas andbrainstorm how to make things
better those are the ways thatI'm really using it from a
(22:08):
content creation standpoint.
I'm someone who doesn't believein ever starting with a blank
page now.
There's no reason to.
That doesn't mean that we copyand paste, far from it.
Although the more you use AIand the more you train it.
Far from it.
Although, the more you use AIand the more you train it, the
more it starts to sound like youand the less work you have to
do.
But you know an example of that.
(22:28):
You know, I'm a creative typeand I have a YouTube channel and
I'm really ramping up myYouTube channel at the moment.
And so this morning, as I wasgetting ready, I just, you know,
the ideas were coming to me andI started thinking about the
beginning of a video, and so Iwent into my notes app and I
wrote out all of the you know,here's how I think it's going to
go.
And then I copied and pastedthat into ChatGPT and said OK,
(22:50):
here's what I have so far, Canyou?
And I gave it very specificprompts about the type of videos
I like to create, and it spitsback out a script.
I take that script.
I like to also use Claude.
Claude is I find a bettercreative writer than ChatGPT.
Chatgpt is very good atstrategy, you know, being
strategic, helping you,brainstorm, thinking outside the
(23:12):
box.
It's not always as good atwriting because it tends to
churn out pretty similar lookingstuff.
Claude is really good for that,but what I do is I use
different platforms to come upwith my product, and that way
it's it is ultimately me in theend, because I'm not just taking
it from one source.
And then, as far as repurposingvideos, there's lots of great
(23:34):
AI tools.
One I use in particular iscalled Opus Clip.
Even this interview we're doingright now, breaking things up
into smaller pieces to be ableto repurpose through Shorts and
Instagram.
So the approach I take is youcreate a very valuable piece of
long format content and thatallows you to break it up and,
(23:55):
you know, get the most mileageout of it by using different
pieces of it.
Tim (24:00):
Yeah, and that's so important to understand and then
being able to take.
When you take this content andthen you cut it up or you have
these tools cut it up, you alsohave to.
It's not just let them cut itup.
You have to make sure that it'sgoing to work for whatever
(24:22):
platform or whatever message itis that you're going to actually
be using on.
You can't just say, okay, itdid this one and it sounds
pretty good, so we're just goingto slap it up there and hope
that it's going to get themessage out that we want to get.
We still have to go through itand make sure that it's
communicating the message thatwe want to communicate on the
(24:44):
platform that we want to put iton.
Shirlee (24:46):
Yeah, and you know I've developed different methods for
doing that.
I find I probably use maybe 60,50 to 60 percent of the clips
that it spits out, because someof them, without more context,
don't really make sense.
The reason I like Opus Clip isbecause I've tried a lot of
other ones and I find the AI atleast at the time of this
(25:08):
recording it's always changing,I find puts out the best quality
stuff.
But what I'll often do is thenI'll go back to ChatGPT and
ChatGPT has an option where youcan press the microphone and you
can play the clip so ittranscribes the clip for you, or
you can copy a transcript andthen I tell it to come up with,
let's say it's LinkedIn, writeme a LinkedIn post based on this
(25:30):
transcript.
So it's pulling from what Ialready said.
But then it's organizing it in adifferent way, or maybe an
email or a blog post or whateverit is, and then I take that off
of ChatGPT and then I revise itand put my own spin and my own
voice on it and post it, andthat whole process can take a
couple minutes.
So there is no excuse.
(25:51):
Oh no, what do I post today?
I mean, ideally we want to havecontent plans and have them
weeks and weeks out, but you andI both know the reality of
entrepreneurship.
It's hard to do that andsometimes you have things that
come up on certain days whereyou have something to say and
you don't want to wait two weeksto say it.
It's timely right now.
So I think it's a healthy mixof having stuff in the bank that
(26:15):
you're not constantly feelinglike you're catching up, you're
on this content treadmill, butalso leaving room for that magic
where, on a specific day, ifyou have something to say that
you're not kind of sitting on itfor a couple weeks yeah, and I
do something very similar whatyou do.
Tim (26:31):
But I find myself a lot of times like if I'm working on
something, I'll get a thoughtwhich is rare but I'll get a
thought and I'll put it in thechat GPT, knowing that I'm not
going to do anything with it.
Or it could be two days, itcould be a week, and I'll say,
okay, let's go back and see whatit came up with, and then that,
(26:51):
take that and either dosomething with it or not do
something with it.
But right, so in the past,where you know we, we all have
the notes app, but for me that'sjust not practical, it's just
not.
You know, my ADHD just doesn'twork that way.
But now, with ChatGPT on thephone or sitting here on my
(27:15):
computer, I can just speak it inand move on.
It takes 15, 20 seconds, asopposed to me typing something
in my notes app or anything likethat.
It'll take me 20 minutes.
Just speak it in and go andthen come back to it in a couple
days or whatever.
I did that five times yesterday, five times.
Shirlee (27:38):
Wow, that's great.
And then how do you keep trackof it?
Because that's one of thethings I think is something
that's difficult in some ofthese AI apps is just, you have
this long conversation.
You're like, oh, I had thisreally good thought like last
Wednesday, and what did chatcall that chat again?
So I think there is a risk ofit kind of getting lost in the
(28:01):
ether.
There is a risk of it kind ofgetting lost in the ether, which
is why I like having an ideaparking lot and being able to
draw on that.
So it really depends on how youwork.
But it's what you said it'sfind the system that works for
you.
And the other thing I want tosay is there is still a strategy
.
So the way I work with clientsis I make sure that there is an
(28:24):
underpinning to what they'resaying, that that everything
every video you create, everymessage you put out there has to
feed into a broader narrativethat you develop that really
stays on brand and on message,right?
So a lot of people are justthrowing spaghetti at the wall
and they're wondering why it'snot working.
Why is it crickets?
Why don't people engage with mycontent?
(28:45):
Well, if you're just kind ofrandomly throwing things up
there.
Your viewer, your audiencecan't follow the breadcrumbs, so
to speak.
Tim (28:53):
Yeah, and again, for me that's, that's something that I
find myself doing at times too,and I and I, you know, I get off
track and I say, okay, now Ican, I can see them off track
now, and then just veering backon Um and and and it's hard,
yeah, it's.
(29:17):
I mean, you've got to havesomebody, who, who, who can, um,
who can help lead you back.
As number one stop you fromfrom getting off track, but if
you do get off track, lead you.
Lead you back to on track asquickly as possible so that
you're not wasting time, energyand resources.
Shirlee (29:29):
Yes.
Tim (29:30):
Going down a road that you really shouldn't be going down.
Shirlee (29:33):
Absolutely.
Tim (29:36):
So, uh, but that gets back to the whole idea of being
authentic in who you are, tooRight I mean, because when you,
as as we, as we talk about thesethings and and I've said
multiple times, you know to you,to you and on some of the other
things, I use self-deprecatinghumor because that's just who I
(29:59):
am, but that's also somethingfor me to that keeps me on track
.
I get a thought.
What happens when I get athought?
I go to ChatGPT or I open upanother app and I do it with
messages, like with with my wife.
I'll say, jen, remind me tothis when I get home, remind me
(30:20):
to do this or remind me to putthis into whatever it is.
And so it's.
It's understanding how weoperate so that we can be
authentic when we show up.
Shirlee (30:33):
Absolutely yeah, and telling us stories of your life
too.
And that's also where the wholeidea of you know being in the
moment a little bit more comesin, because that whole packaged,
manufactured image is reallyout in 2025.
But there is a skill in makingsure that even in those moments
(30:53):
that come across that might seemlike you know, oh, this just
happened today, you still wantto weave in the overall message
that you have, especially as abusiness owner, as an
entrepreneur, because ultimately, you are marketing all the time
, right?
Whether you like it or not.
That's what this is.
It's marketing.
You know, people don't just showup on social media all the time
(31:16):
for fun.
They usually have, you know,some kind of reason to do that,
and that's not always a businessreason.
Sometimes it's a visibilityreason, it's a fan base reason.
Whatever it is, you areexpressing yourself, but they're
always, to really be successfulat it has to be a through line,
right.
And so I think it's importantto just not to take the time to
(31:39):
ideate, take those great nuggetsand ideas that you get that
come to you like us.
You know creative people andpeople who don't always think in
a linear way, but take the timeto really develop that, because
you know the iteration, that'sjust, you just throw it out.
There is only part of what itcould be if you actually took
the time to really think about.
(32:00):
How does this play into mybroader message and how can I
turn this into you know, aspecific type of content that
can actually have a purpose,right?
Tim (32:10):
Right, right.
So what's your process in termsof creating content, you know,
from the idea perspective?
Um, because I think you come upwith with really great stuff, I
mean it's.
I mean, I mean you're, you'reno watching people eat, type of
video, type of thing yeah,probably not.
(32:30):
Not, not on my channel, yeah butbut you, you always have really
good ideas that that make.
But then again, it just memakes me think about some of the
things that I'm doing and how Igo about things.
So so what's your process incoming up with these types of
ideas?
Shirlee (32:49):
Yeah, I think it.
It really comes down to.
I have three main pillars ofall of my messaging, and you
mentioned some of them off thetop what to say?
So that's anything related tomessaging.
How to say it, that's anythingrelated to being on camera body
language, eye contact, voice,backgrounds.
(33:13):
And then how to create buzz, sothat's you know, pitching media
, podcasts and stages, how toland those things, who to pitch.
How okay, you got it.
That's fabulous.
How do you sound good?
How do you, you know, make themost of that appearance?
What do you do after?
So everything I talk aboutfalls under one of those three
pillars.
And then being very strategic,with having a really deep
(33:34):
understanding of the audienceand the people who are watching.
And then I run a business.
So who are the clients who I'mspeaking to and what are they
going through?
Because I think a mistake thata lot of people make is they
make their content all aboutthem.
Right, I do this or I do that,or I know this, I know that.
I'm going to teach you.
This is how I do this andthat's great.
(33:56):
But if I'm watching as anaudience member, I want to know
what's in it for me.
I mean, at the end of the day,you're either asking people for
their time or their money orboth, and so, even if you're not
a business owner, you're stillasking, you're still selling,
you're still selling people togive you their time, to give you
the time of day to stopscrolling right.
(34:17):
So I think it's about knowingyour pillars, knowing your
audience and then being able topresent the information in a way
that you know speaks to thatperson or that type of person
that you're trying to reach.
Because a lot of people I findas well, kind of use the
LinkedIn speak.
I like to say, you know, theydon't say it in a conversational
(34:39):
way, the way like an actualperson would talk, and that was
a skill I really honed as ajournalist because it was beat
into me.
I would show up with a scriptand they'd be like what does
that mean?
It means this OK, say thatRight.
So I'm now I do that withclients I'm like, ok, what does
that actually mean?
And if you think about yourmessaging as an onion like
there's always layers of theonion you can peel back to
(35:02):
really get to the heart of whatit is that you're trying to say,
and so I think that's so, so,so important and just rooting
everything you say and it goesback to one of those pillars in
your messaging.
Tim (35:16):
And again, so important and so glad you said those things.
I mean you've got your pillars,but it doesn't matter which
pillar you're dealing with.
You have to know who youraudience is.
You have to know how to touchthem, how to communicate with
them, how they're going toreceive that message.
So I mean you could have thosepillars and you could have
incredible content, incrediblemessaging, but if you're not
(35:39):
actually targeting the rightpeople, if you don't know who it
is that you're trying to target, it doesn't really matter, it's
just going out into the ether.
Shirlee (35:47):
You just waste all the time, effort and I think another
key piece of this that a lot ofpeople don't think about,
especially people who came ofage in the generation of the
traditional advertising.
You think about the madmen insuits and they're scribbling on
the back of a napkin with a cupof scotch and they're like in a
back room and then suddenly theyemerge and they're like here's
the campaign and then it goesout.
(36:08):
We live in a very democraticsocial media world where your
audience will tell you if it'sgood.
You don't get to decide if it'sgood.
A lot of times I'll putsomething out there and I'm like
, no, this is pretty good.
And I'll put it out there andI'll be like, oh, it didn't
really land.
Or I'll put something out andI'll be like this wasn't very
good and it just goes.
(36:29):
People love it.
So I think that the creatorsthat really get it, and the ones
that succeed and the ones thatgrow, are the ones that are
constantly analyzing how didthis land with the audience?
You know what was the, not justlikes, and you know some of the
vanity metrics.
But is this resonating?
And if it's not resonating,that should tell you something,
(36:50):
because the ultimate deciders ofwhether your content is
effective is not other peoplewho you know are watching you
and criticizing you or thinkthey can advise you.
It's the people who you'retargeting.
What better way to know if it'sworking than with your audience?
And so I think that the peoplewho really succeed are the ones
(37:10):
who are constantly really havetheir finger on the pulse of
what is resonating, and then youcreate more of that.
So that means that sometimesyou're not going to use, you're
not going to speak to all ofyour pillars equally.
Maybe there's a pillar thatgets way more engagement, or
your audience.
Kind of use your audience andlet them guide you to what they
(37:32):
want, because that's again oneof the mistakes that
entrepreneurs make is they goout there and they do what they
want to do, and obviously youknow you have to be passionate
about it, you have to be anexpert if you're purporting to
be an expert, but it's aboutunderstanding what the market
wants, and content is much thesame.
Tim (37:51):
Yeah, and you said something at the beginning.
There, you know, what you putout could land, could not land,
and those that are successful,those that are also successful,
aren't worried about how theylook.
They're going to put it out,they're just going to do it.
They're just going to put itout there and obviously, there,
(38:13):
there, there's a plan for whatthey do, but they're just going
to put it out, and if it doesn'tresonate, it doesn't resonate,
but they're still just going toput it out, yeah, out, and if it
doesn't resonate, doesn'tresonate, but they're still just
going to put it out.
Yeah, and that's something thatmy, my audience in particular,
really struggles with.
Well, they don't, they, theydon't take that step forward of
actually following through anddoing the thing.
(38:34):
What?
Whether it's um, getting up onstage, what?
Whether it's doing a video,whether it's whatever it is,
they talk about it, they preparefor it and then, whatever it is
, they hold themselves back.
Shirlee (38:48):
Yeah, I see that a lot with clients as well.
I'll often say to them get offthe page, which is it's a form
of procrastination and it's aform of staying safe.
You know, and there's lots ofdifferent examples of this, not
just in me showing up on youknow video and in public
speaking, but it's you feel aresistance to doing something
(39:12):
that puts you outside yourcomfort zone or where your brain
thinks this is not safe for me.
Safe for me and, I think, a lotof people who are looking to
get out there but don'tnecessarily have the confidence
or want that spotlight, you know, because not all entrepreneurs
want to be out there in thespotlight all the time.
They want clients but theydon't want to have to you know,
(39:32):
dance on video, so to speak.
It's about getting outside yourcomfort zone, because people
will appreciate it, and lettinggo of perfection, and it would
be such a lie to say, oh,there's going to be a time that
you don't care how you look.
I mean, I keep moving my bangsout of my face because they're
driving me nuts, but here I am,I'm live for you know, taped
(39:54):
live on a podcast.
You're never going to stopcaring how you look, but you are
going to get to a point whereyou're comfortable being
yourself, warts and all, as theysay, in front of the audience,
and your audience will rewardyou for that.
Tim (40:12):
So do you ever find yourself in that position where
you have created something andyou don't?
You're ready to put it out, butthen you don't, for whatever
reason?
Shirlee (40:23):
All the time there is a there's a graveyard of reels
that I have filmed over the overthe the years, that that just
live on my phone, and every sooften I'll come across one of
them and be like, why didn't Iever put this out?
You know, sometimes, becauseyou know there's it's very
important to get into the habitof filming B-roll of yourself,
so video of you just doing yourthing, because you never know
(40:47):
where it's going to come inhandy.
So I do film a lot of thingsthat don't see the light of day
because they're like just incase videos, and you know it is
a good point to go back to someof them and and see how they can
be used.
But absolutely a good point togo back to some of them and and
see how they can be used.
But absolutely there's lots ofthings that I've filmed that
have never been released, andI'll bet you that's there are
(41:07):
probably a lot of missedopportunities in there, too, of
things that I just wasn't sure,like right now.
Um, I've been doing a lot ofInstagram stories lately and you
know they have that one minutetimer and and if you go beyond
the one minute, then and what wewere saying earlier, you know
you have that line that's beingtraced around the circle and
(41:28):
it's coming up to the end, butbecause I'm looking at the
camera I don't see when it's atthe end, so I always get cut off
.
Well, I could get all in myhead and not put it out, but
I'll just be like oops, got cutoff there and just keep going.
It put it out, but I'll just belike oops, got cut off there
and just keep going.
It's also a way to get peopleto keep watching from story to
story.
But, um, yeah, I mean it's, andand how many other people are
(41:48):
going to see that?
And be like, oh, that happensto me too, right?
Tim (41:51):
exactly, and you'll probably get a laughing emoji or
what have you?
Yep, yeah, yeah.
I wish you hadn't said theb-roll thing, because I try and
put that.
I'm trying to block that outbecause I know that I have to do
that.
I know, but that's somethingthat I hate doing.
I don't like doing it, I don'twant to do it, and so for me
that's a big pain point for methat I just nobody wants to see
(42:16):
me walking around doing whateverI do.
Shirlee (42:19):
I don't want to see me.
Tim (42:19):
So it's those things that we know we, whatever I do, I
don't want to see me, so so it's.
It's those things that we knowwe need to do.
We have to figure out a way toget over it.
And that happens, just so theaudience knows it happens to
everybody.
You are not unique withsomething that you hate doing,
don't want to do, don't feelcomfortable doing whatever it is
.
We all go through it.
We all have to figure out a wayto get over it, to be able to
(42:40):
move forward.
Shirlee (42:41):
Yeah, and I think with something like that, that's
where batching comes in.
So, so well, it's like who?
I don't like having to rememberto do that either.
Uh, because sometimes I don'thave.
There are some days where Iwake up and I'm not filming that
day, right.
So maybe I'm in my pajamas andhaven't showered and haven't put
my face on, and so the best wayaround that is to set a day
(43:03):
where you're like I'm going tofilm B-roll on this day, right
and how, whether, that's, youknow, once a month or once every
two weeks or whatever it is,and having that planning, that
foresight of being like whatkind of B-roll do I need for my
content?
And then carving out timespecifically to do that.
And then you build up a bank ofcontent, a bank of B-roll, a
(43:25):
B-roll bank, I call it, and thatis something you can draw on
over and over again.
And so you know, how manydifferent shots do you need of
you typing at a computer?
Because that's what a lot of usdo, right?
Like we sit at computers allday.
So why not have a few differentshirts and, and you know, swap
them out and do a session whereyou film a bunch of stuff of you
(43:46):
on a computer, in differentangles, different shirts.
You know, and then it's done.
You don't have to do it again,for you know a month, two months
, whatever so you get a newshirt yeah, you get a new shirt,
or more than one shirt?
Yeah, exactly.
Tim (44:02):
I was at a conference a couple of weeks maybe it's
recently, just to put it thatway and I was proud of myself
because I told my, my friend,who was actually running the
conference, and make sure yousend me video and pictures,
cause I'm going to need them,yeah, and so I remember to have
somebody else do it.
Shirlee (44:23):
Yes, yes, that's so important and sometimes it can
feel a little awkward.
So I spoke at, you know, in myinterior design capacity.
I spoke at a trade show andit's not the kind of show where
there's like cameras around andfilming and stuff.
But I actually hired someone tocome and film the presentation
(44:46):
and, you know, walked in withthe camera and all that and it's
you know, hi, you know, but Ineeded that video, right?
I mean, that's that's how weshow our brands, that's how we
show what we're doing, andpeople love being a fly on the
wall in that type of situation.
Show what we're doing, andpeople love being a fly on the
wall in that type of situation.
So, you know, whenever there'san opportunity to film yourself
in action, whatever it is thatyou do, no matter what you want
(45:09):
to have that B-roll for it'salways nice to have, because you
know we talk about sizzle reelslike what better way to talk
about yourself and what you dothan have video of you in action
, doing your thing and speakingopportunities, whether it's on a
stage, on a podcast, you know,whatever at a conference,
whatever it is, even being at aconference, that is golden
(45:30):
opportunity to show you out andabout and mingling and with
people, rather than having tojust, oh, what am I going to put
here?
I'm going to get some stockfootage or, you know, I'll just
have my mug on on video thewhole time.
It just makes it more dynamic.
So, you know, and, and so manytimes I'll have clients tell me,
(45:54):
you know, like, oh, I went onthis vacation and we did this
incredible thing.
And I'll be like, did you getsome video?
No, why not?
And and a lot of people don'tthink about that right, like
they're on vacation, that that'snot the first thing on their
minds.
Tim (46:04):
But you never know when that type of visual might come
in handy in your marketingexactly, and even with even if
you have good stock footage,when you, when you weave it into
other b-roll, it looks likestock oh yeah, people can tell
you can tell it's, it justdoesn't.
Even if it's really good stuff,it doesn't have the same look,
(46:25):
it doesn't have the same, not atall it doesn't have the same,
so again.
But I don't want to dissuadepeople from using stock footage.
If you need to use it, use it,but you're much better off if
you have actual B-roll footageof whatever it is that you're
trying to show.
Shirlee (46:41):
Couldn't agree more yeah, absolutely.
Tim (46:45):
Well, Shirley, you've got some really good things going on
with what you're doing.
What are they?
Shirlee (46:52):
Well, I have just released a longer version of a
signature challenge that you didand that a lot of entrepreneurs
have enjoyed, called sizzlereal school.
It is the one video that I wouldsay every single brand needs.
It's your trailer for yourbusiness, for your channel.
(47:12):
If you're a youtuber, if youhave a youtube presence or
wherever it is that that youwant to show your personal brand
, having that brand trailer isso critical.
So what we've done is takenthis five-day challenge that
people love so much and we'veexpanded it into a course where
people can take a little bitlonger, have access to me on
live calls and create that standout brand video to really make
(47:35):
their brand shine.
And the nice thing about sizzlereels is that once you learn
the process, once you learnabout this type of video, you
start to understand that there'sseveral kinds of sizzle reels
you can create for your business, and once you've done one, the
floodgates are really open tomake all of your videos that
much better.
So we're super excited torelease this, and we've got just
(47:57):
some incredible entrepreneursdoing some really great things
with their sizzle reels, and sothis has just been a passion
project of mine.
Tim (48:05):
It's an extension of what I did every day as a journalist
and it's just really such anhonor and pleasure to be able to
help business owners tell theirstories because, as I've made
some changes and transitionsover the last five, six years
(48:25):
taking courses, taking onlinecourses, taking in-person
courses the Sizzle Real School,without a doubt, had probably
some of the best value inanything I've done educationally
in the last five or six years.
Wow, Thank you so much.
That's five to six years.
Shirlee (48:38):
Wow, that's thank you so much.
Tim (48:40):
That's amazing, Because well, you have to enroll to
figure this out though, okay, sodon't just take my word for it
and enroll in it.
But you not only did you teachskills, but the way you went
about it to get me over some ofthose hurdles that I have for
myself, like I don't have nearlyas much resting bitch facing so
(49:02):
I have some, but not nearly asmuch.
I'm a little bit morecomfortable in front of the
camera, and the process of, ofbuilding the scissor reel is has
opened my eyes up to, like yousaid, building for a number of
different opportunities.
You know, I know one of thethings that you talk about is an
(49:24):
elevator pitch, and so in myprevious life as a college
professor, we did those.
I've got a process that helpedthem, and one of the things that
I'm doing is I'm combining,combining the whole idea of the
elevator pitch into the sizzlereel to.
You know, a 45 second sizzlereel, 45 seconds is all you get,
(49:49):
and and and some of the some ofthe good things that have have
come from that, you know, forfor some of my clients, has been
amazing.
So again, enroll in sizzle reelschool.
I mean you, you, the value, thevalue that's there is.
It's unbeatable, it really is.
Thank you.
Shirlee (50:08):
Yeah, I mean it's great .
We'd love to have as manyentrepreneurs go through this as
possible, because I'm really ona mission to you know, bring
this type of skillset toentrepreneurs, because a lot of
you know type of skill set toentrepreneurs because a lot of
you know production companies.
You can go outsource filming avideo.
It costs thousands, if not tensof thousands, of dollars to
create a video for your brandand in 2025, you don't need to
(50:32):
spend that kind of money.
Um, you know that story iswithin, but you just need the
right guidance.
You need process, you need tounderstand what makes a good
video, how to put that togetherand, as you'll attest, there's
beginner, intermediate and pro.
There's no previous experiencerequired and entrepreneurs are
using these reels for all kindsof incredible uses and they're
(50:55):
really helping people tell theirstories and have this one
central place that you candirect a prospective client or
someone to learn more about you.
And what better way to do thatthan through, like a movie style
trailer for your business?
Right?
Tim (51:10):
Yeah, and on top of it they get your feedback, they get
feedback from other people thatare in the course, so you're
getting a lot of feedback that'sgoing to help you get better,
help you make it better, helpyou build that confidence of
being in front of the camera,telling that story, putting it
together and, like you say, youdon't need all kinds of
expensive equipment, expensivecomputer programs to do this.
(51:34):
It's really not that hard.
Shirlee (51:37):
Exactly?
Yeah, not at all.
We don't make you buy anything.
Tim (51:44):
Well, shirley, that's great .
I really do appreciate it.
And where can people find youto register for a sizzle reel or
if they want to work with youwith Camera, confident or any of
your other programs?
Shirlee (51:53):
Yeah, so I mostly hang out on YouTube.
I have a YouTube channel whichwe can link to in the show notes
, and would also love to hearfrom people on LinkedIn.
They're linked to each other,so if you go to my YouTube,
there's a link there where youcan find me on LinkedIn.
On LinkedIn, I'm Shirley Engel.
My DMs are open and I loveconnecting with people, so you
know those are usually the bestplaces to find me, but I hang
(52:15):
out on most of the platforms.
Tim (52:17):
Yeah, and again, I don't say this often, but when I do
say it I mean it Make sure youfollow Shirley, because she does
.
The content that she puts outis really good.
It makes you think it helps.
It's going to help you inwhatever area that you're
looking for, especially withbeing confident on camera.
(52:38):
I mean it's.
She does really good stuff.
Shirlee (52:40):
Thank you, tim, that's so kind of you.
Tim (52:42):
Well, take care, and we'll talk to you soon, shirley.
Shirlee (52:45):
Thank you.
Thanks so much for having meand have a great rest of the day
.
Tim (52:49):
Be sure to visit speakingwithconfidencepodcastcom
to get your free ebook Top 21Challenges for Public Speakers
and how to Overcome them.
You can also register for theforum for public speaking.
Always remember, your voice haspower changers.
We'll talk to you next time.
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