Transforming Self-Talk and Breaking the Victim Mindset with Clay Moffat | Tim Newman

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Welcome back to “Speaking with Confidence.” I’m Tim Newman, your host and recovering college professor turned communication coach. In this episode, I dive into how radical responsibility shapes not only the way we communicate but the core of how we relate to ourselves and others. We look beyond typical “confidence” and get to the heart of conviction—the mindset shift that changes how we show up in our lives.

Joining me is Clay Moffat, a Navy veteran and performance strategist with a truly remarkable journey. Clay has been on top, coaching billionaires and building a seven-figure business—only to lose it all in a high-stakes startup crash. He faced the frightening possibility of permanent blindness while rebuilding his life, and from those experiences, Clay created the concept of the "trust trap"—the focus of his new book. Clay’s work helps people break free from the nervous system patterns and mental habits that keep us stuck in self-doubt, blame, and unproductive cycles, teaching not just confidence, but conviction rooted in personal power.

Our conversation starts with the central idea: what does it mean to take “radical responsibility” for our lives? Clay explains that it’s not about blaming yourself, but about owning even that “1%” of any situation that you can control or influence. As Clay puts it, reclaiming any sort of personal power, freedom, and forward motion in life begins with this kind of self-honesty. We talk about why the question “Why is this happening to me?” traps us in victimhood, and how reframing it to “How did I create this?” can shift us from powerlessness to agency. Through everyday stories—from missed vacations to major financial decisions—Clay shares how this mindset applies whether the stakes are small or life-changing.

Here’s what we covered in this episode:

• What is radical responsibility and how does it differ from blame or self-criticism?
• The difference between “confidence” and “conviction,” and why conviction matters for real communication and presence.
• How to spot when you’re stuck in victim thinking, and the questions to ask yourself to regain personal power.
• Practical strategies for transforming negative self-talk, including a four-step process to create a more supportive inner dialogue.
• The hidden ways family patterns and early conditioning shape our self-image and choices—often beneath conscious awareness.
• Why we ignore red flags and how our brains’ desire for shortcuts can create unhelpful mental “brackets” about people and situations.
• Real-life stories from Clay about high-stakes decision making, resilience, and bouncing back from major setbacks.
• How to own your story, communicate more authentically, and set a new standard for leadership, parenting, and self-trust.
• The power of mindset—the small language shifts that can open new pathways for growth, resilience, and effective action.
• Insights from “Trust Trap” on reclaiming authority over your life—even when circumstances and the world try to pull your power away.

Listen in to learn how taking radical responsibility can revolutionize how you see yourself, how you show up in the world, and the trust you create with others and yourself.

Don’t forget, you can connect with Clay Moffat on X (formerly Twitter) @MoffatClay o

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Episode Transcript

Tim Newman (00:10):
Welcome back to Speaking with Confidence, a
podcast that helps you build thetop skills that lead to real
results communication,storytelling, public speaking,
and showing up with confidencein every conversation that
counts.
I'm Tim Newman, a recoveringcollege professor turned
communication coach, and I'mthrilled to guide you on your
journey to become a powerfulcommunicator.
Today's guest is Clay Moffitt.
Clay is a Navy veteranperformance strategist who's

(00:33):
coached billionaires, proathletes, fighters, and
founders.
He's built a seven-figurebusiness, lost it all in an app
implosion, and came backswinging, riding the trust trap
in 21 days while facing thepermanent risk of blindness.
His work now helps peoplereclaim their authority by
mastering the nervous systempatterns that sabotage clarity,
presence, and influence.

(00:54):
Clay doesn't teach confidence,he teaches conviction, empowered
with pattern recognition andpurpose.
Clay, welcome to the show, bud.

Clay Moffat (01:02):
Thanks for having me, Tim.
I appreciate that intro.
It's very fancy.

Tim Newman (01:05):
Well, you know, you you you've got an incredible
story, and I want to talk alittle bit about the book Trust
Trap in a few minutes, which uhit it's amazing, and people are
going to get a lot of value outof it.
But but before we get to that,you know, I want to start with
the idea of radicalresponsibility.
Um what what does that mean toyou and how does that apply to

(01:26):
personal and and professionaldevelopment?

Clay Moffat (01:29):
So that's a simple thing.
Radical responsibility issimply put, the idea that for
every single situation, there isa part that you have to own if
you want to get to the nextstage or next evolution or next
level of life, if you want tocall it that.
Whatever it is that you'redoing, whether it's
professional, personal, andrelationship, it doesn't matter
whether it's in uh your job,whether it's in your vocation,

(01:52):
whether it's in a hobby, whetherit's in a skill that you want
to develop, where you want tolearn another language, you're
gonna have to own something.
So if you've got a bad coach ora bad teacher or a bad boss or
a bad something or another,that's fine.
That will be limiting.
However, are you showing up100% the same as if you have a
good boss?
And the answer is you're likelynot.

(02:14):
And so we're clear, I'm notsaying it's your fault.
What I am saying is you need toown that part of you.
Right.
And I had to do a lot of owningto a lot of parts to me for a
long time because I spent thegood portion of the first almost
30 years of my life walkingaround in an unknown state of
victimhood where I could find itso easily to blame everyone

(02:35):
else for my misfortunes whenreally I was the douchebag that
managed to put myself in thatposition time and time again.
And I just didn't see it thatway.
I just always relegated back.
So radical responsibility isthe idea of even if it's just 1%
that you've contributed to asituation, right?

(02:56):
You have to own that to get anysort of personal power,
personal freedom back.

Tim Newman (03:02):
Yeah, that that that's so important.
And I I think that you know,the whole idea of of how how
self-absorbed we uh we are as asas people, and is really it's
human nature because it's weit's I mean, it's how we're
built.
Everything is about us.
Um, you know, we talked alittle bit about this, you know,
before we started.
Um we we make it about us.

(03:24):
You know, we're we're we'reself-absorbed in you know, this
is what I'm doing, and you know,you do this over here, and I
can't believe that you're notyou're not supporting me doing
what I'm doing.
Doesn't really matter.
And and what when you look atit from that pro professional
perspective, like you just said,you've got a bad boss.
Um maybe he's not even a badboss.
Maybe you're just showing up,maybe you're a bad employee,

(03:46):
maybe you're not doing thethings that you need to do, and
they're calling you out on onyour on your stuff.

Clay Moffat (03:52):
Absolutely.
So there's a question that alot of people tend to ask at
some point in time, especiallyif there's someone that is
unknowingly in what I call thestate of victimhood.
And they'll ask the question,why is this happening to me?
Or why is this continued tohappen to me, or why does this
keep repeating in my life?
And the problem is, and anyonethat's listening right now, and

(04:14):
even yourself, Tim, if you everask that question, go back and
count the times that it gave youan answer that did not
reinforce and suddenly show upall the reasons why your life
sucked.
Yeah, and it's zero becauseit'll always show you that.
Right.
So a lot of people will talkand coaching and uh guiding
people and mentoring people isabout asking good questions.

(04:36):
And so instead of having thisquestion of why is this
happening to me, the question toreverse the power frame for
yourself is how did I createthis or how am I creating this?
So you can start putting itback in because that then shifts
you from okay, like this iscompletely external, I have no
part in this, I'm the victimhere, to okay, no matter how

(04:57):
much there is externallyinvolved, like you can't
forecast the weather.
I mean, the meteorologydepartment doesn't even get it
right that often, so you'reprobably not gonna.
So you can't go, okay, we'regonna go to this excursion.
We're gonna I'll give you anexample completely off topic,
but right on the topic.
Uh, my wife had to go away toDubai for a conference for her

(05:18):
work.
And uh, I was gonna take my sonaway to the jungle because he
wanted to go see bears.
He's wanted to go see bears fora long time.
We have the Malaysian sun bearand the Asiatic black bear over
here, and you know, like bluefrom the jungle book, right?
They, you know, they'll they'llmaul you if you get in between
them, but they're notaggressive, they're not
carnivorous, they they won't goafter adults and uh cute kids

(05:42):
and humans.
So you're relatively safeanyway, but he wanted to go see
them.
So I waited to the last minute,wait till the last one.
I'm like, okay, let's book thetickets because nothing can go
wrong now, we're good to go.
So I booked the tickets thatmorning, that evening, he gets a
fever, goes all the way upover.
I'm like, okay, we're notgetting on the plane tomorrow,
that's cancelled.
And I didn't say, Oh, look atme, oh, why is this happening to

(06:04):
me?
I've just wasted, I can promiseyou, I was frustrated because
I'm like, I thought I'd doneeverything, it's the last
minute, we're good to go.
And because I left at such lastminute, I paid a premium for
the flights.
Then I had to basically throwthe flights away because I'd get
travel insurance because I leftat the last minute.
So it was all on my shoulders.
I thought I was doing the rightthing, and ended up coming full
circle and coming back in myface.
I'm like, no, you didn't do theright thing.

(06:26):
Next time book it earlier andjust get travel insurance, and
maybe you'll get the money backor change the flights or
something like that.
So it's really about justhaving that level of acceptance
within yourself because we arewired to make everything about
us.
That's a default frame that alot of us, not everyone, but a

(06:50):
lot of us have it.
There are some people that arepeople pleasing who have come
from traumatic past or maybe noteven traumatic, just the way
that they were brought up, wherethey are now trying to put
other people first and theysubdue themselves.
But even then, they're stillputting themselves first because
they're satisfying this otherperson so that they still get

(07:12):
the feelings.
It doesn't matter how you frameit, it's always going to come
back to like what you need andwhat you want, or even to the
point what you have beenconditioned to tell yourself
that you want.

Tim Newman (07:26):
Yeah.
And so so when when you lookwhen you look at it like like
that from that from thatperspective, and I I think about
from my coaching perspective,to get people to understand
this, because if you hit themstraight in the face with it,
um, the first thing that they'regonna tell you is you're you're
nuts.
I mean, you you you don't youdon't know me, you don't know my
life, you don't know what I'vebeen through.

(07:47):
And when the reality is, okay,you're right.
I don't know you, I don't knowyour life, don't know what
you've been through.
We because we all have our ownstuff, we all but go through
something different, but we haveto we have to to to break it
down and look at it from maymaybe from a different
perspective.
So how do you go about coachingthat?
Because I I think for me, I Iwould start with something
simple.
Like you like like a like a andI'm not minimizing this, like

(08:10):
the example that you just gave,you know, of a a flight.
Okay, so it's a it's a bigdeal, cost you money, costs you
time, your your son's sick, andthose those types of things.
But in the in the grand schemeof things, that's a that that's
not that big of a deal.
When you're talking about ajob, when you're talking about
relationships, when you'retalking about something bigger,

(08:30):
you know, that that's a muchbigger hurdle to overcome.

Clay Moffat (08:35):
Yes and no.
So yes, this is a much biggerhurdle for to overcome because a
lot of people psychologicallyput more weight to it, but no,
it's still the same principle.
Right.
Right?
So uh I had to, I didn't haveto, I felt compelled to sell my
house at a $200,000 loss becauseI hated having a mortgage.

(08:57):
So I put down a significantdeposit and started paying this
mortgage, and purely for thefact that I hated owing someone
money for something that Ididn't own, that they could take
away from me at any time.
I was like, why did I sign forthis?
Like, I didn't care if it's thedream for everyone, I'm out.
And I made a vow for myselfthat if I was ever going to buy

(09:17):
a house again, I had to buy cashbecause I just don't want to
owe anyone money, I justcouldn't do it.
So that was a very significantdecision to make because I then
had to go, okay, I've just putall this money in and I paid all
this money on interest, and nowI'm selling at a significant
loss.
However, the the peace that itwas giving me was far superior

(09:38):
to continuing to pay thatmortgage, and it's it's
basically the same principlebecause I had to own the fact
that I was the one that enteredinto the mortgage agreement.
No one forced me, no onecompelled me, right?
No one made me do it.
And that's probably the basicarc that people need to
understand.
Yeah.
Unless you're under the age of18, you are not really being

(10:02):
compelled or forced to doanything.
You and even then, I'd arguethat a lot of teenagers aren't
really forced or compelled to domuch.
They might be emotionallymanipulated by their parents in
some households.
I'm not going to argue, theymight suffer physical abuse.
I'm not suggesting the extremecases, I'm talking the more
general cases and uh what wouldbe considered a typical

(10:25):
household.
And for the most part, they canpush boundaries and they can
push back and they can do thesekind of things.
But they're still not beingforced.
Right.
Because what we all fail torecognize from time to time is
that there's kind of these groupsocietal norms, and there's a
family norm, and then there's agroup societal norm, and then

(10:45):
there's these other norms, andwe strive to fit into those
norms so we're not rejected orostracized or kicked out or
curbed.
And so you are always making achoice that's in your best
interest.
It's just we forget the choicethat we're making because we're
like, oh, but like I don't wantto do this.
Okay, so don't do it.
And what's the alternative?
The alternative is get kickedout of the try because you're
not pulling your weight oryou're not pitching in, or

(11:07):
you're not doing whatever it is,right?
And so therefore, okay, do Iwant that?
No, okay, so that means I'mdoing this because ultimately I
want the end result that itgets, so I want this thing.

Tim Newman (11:17):
Yeah.
Yeah, it's you you make reallygood points.
And I want to go back to to howyou initially started that.
You said you you had to, andthen you you stopped yourself
and you and you changed the wordand you changed the terminology
almost like it was a quickmindset change.
You said you you had to, andthen you said, wait, no, I I
made I made the decision to sellthe house at all.

Clay Moffat (11:40):
I was compelled to.

Tim Newman (11:41):
Compelled to, yeah.
And um that I think is thatthat to me is mindset, and and
it that's so important tounderstand because the words
that we use and the terminologythat we use that that that kind
of sets the tone, right?
Um and and not just for for thepeople that are listening or

(12:02):
hearing, but but for ourselvesin in taking that uh radical
responsibility that that thatthat we're talking about.

Clay Moffat (12:10):
Well, you're never gonna speak to anyone else more
than you speak to yourself foryour entire life.

Tim Newman (12:14):
Right.

Clay Moffat (12:15):
So the the the words that happen up here,
upstairs, are the most importantwords that there are.
And uh one of my mentors, ChaseHughes, said to me uh this one
time if you allowed someone tospeak to you the way that you
speak to yourself, or sorry, notif you're allowed, if someone

(12:38):
spoke to you the way you spoketo yourself, you'd drop them to
the fucking floor.
Yeah, and I said, Yeah, there'sa high chance.
I mean, depending on who theywere, like if it's Shaquille
O'Neal, I'd probably, yeah,okay, whatever, but you know,
I'm not gonna fight you.
Um, but I would most likely belike, What's your problem?
Like, why are you talking tome?
Like, what's your deal?

(12:59):
And then we will give ourselvesa pass, like it's perfectly
fine to obliterate ourselves anddemean ourselves and destroy
ourselves and degrade ourselves,and it's perfectly fine, and
it's not fine.
But it's also kind of beenaccustomed and accepted that
this is just how it is, and wehave no way to change it.
And more importantly, for a lotof people, they don't want to

(13:22):
put in the effort to change it.
So it took a long time for meto change my self-talk, and I
had a very, very insatiablecritic that wanted to criticize
me on everything at every pointand just was relentless.
And I went through a process,it's like a quick four-stage
process that I did with everysingle thought that became into
my conscious awareness, everysingle one.

(13:42):
So the first day I did it, itwas about 60 or 70 times, and it
was about that period for abouta month.
So 60 or 70 times a day, I gothrough this process.
So, for example, all right,let's say the thought was,
You're a dumbass, why'd you dothat?
I would first say to myself,you know what?
Thanks, Clay, I appreciate youbringing this to my attention.
Because when someone iscriticizing you, and here's the

(14:08):
caveat, and they absolutely loveyou, the criticism is not done
to bring you down.
The criticism is because theydon't know how to communicate
you or get your attention.
When they're criticizing you,they're doing it because they're
worried about you, they'refearful about you, that they're
doing it from a place of love.
And you see this with parentswho constantly critique their
child children.

(14:28):
It's not good enough.
You need to do better.
You raise your standards.
Come on, what are you thinking?
They're not doing that to makethe child feel like crap,
they're doing it because theywant the child to be safe, to be
secure, so that everything theyput out is of a high standard,
so when they get out into theworld, they've got high
standards, they can look afterthemselves for self-reliance.
And if you are of the mindright now that you believe that

(14:51):
your subconscious is your enemy,then you don't understand your
subconscious and its role inkeeping you alive.
Because it is designed to keepyou safe.
And so it may have learned orbeen conditioned or watched or
observed through time and betrained to get your attention in
what would be seen in anegative way.
And if that's the case, then itis 100% your job and

(15:13):
responsibility, radicalresponsibility again, to change
it.
You've got to own it.
And this is why I talk aboutwhen we jump back earlier.
You may have been conditioned.
So, for example, my dad hasvery horrible self-talk, still
to this day.
And I know for a fact that'swhere I picked up a lot of it
from.
Because I've watched him, he'dscrew something up and he'd just
obliterate himself.
And I know he got that from mygrandparents who treated him

(15:37):
like crap.
So it's not his fault, justlike it's not my fault that I
had it, it's also myresponsibility to change it.
Change it, right?
So basically, you acknowledgeit.
So if someone's annoying youand nagging you and like trying
to get your attention, you say,you know what?
Thanks, Tim.
I got it.
Let's pretend you're like beingtrying to get my attention and

(15:58):
nagging me because you wanted totell me something super
important.
But you're getting doing it ina way that was just not
demeaning, but didn't reallyconnect with how I wanted to be
spoken to.
I'd say, you know what, Tim?
I hear you loud and clear.
Thank you, I've got it.
What would be the next responsefrom your mouth?

Tim Newman (16:18):
What are you going to do differently?

Clay Moffat (16:20):
Right.
Exactly.
It's a completely differentframe.
Like, okay, cool.
All right.
So what do you now it's likemore inquisitive.

Tim Newman (16:26):
Or how or how can I help you?
How can I help you better whatdo you need to do better?
I mean, it could that that'swhere again that's where you
start asking different differentquestions as opposed to making
statements.

Clay Moffat (16:37):
Exactly.
So you just started going downthe path and you do the exact
same path with yourself.
So first you thank yourselfbecause it's coming from your
subconscious mind or yournon-conscious mind or your other
than conscious mind orunconscious, whatever you want
to call it, I don't care.
So you know this this part ofyou is wanting to talk to you.
So you thank that part of youfor wanting to get your
attention, for acknowledgingsomething's up for acknowledging

(16:58):
that you can be better and dobetter.
Perfect.
Okay.
So then you say, okay, sowhat's the intention behind that
comment?
Like, what are you reallytrying to achieve?
And a lot of the times it willcome across, like, I know we can
do better.
I know we can do better thanthis.
Okay, perfect.
Thank you.
I appreciate that.
Yes, I agree we can do better.
Now, how could you say that tome in a way that's useful?

(17:22):
Oh.
And you wait and you sit there,you shut up, and let your brain
come up with a solution.
And it will say, you know what?
Next time it could say, Clay,stop a moment.
Let's just think about how wecan really commit to what we're
doing and get the result wewant.
All right, perfect.
So do you agree to start doingthat from now on?

(17:45):
Yes.
Do you have any resistance totalking to me in this way?
No.
Okay, perfect.
So let's agree to do that.
Thanks, buddy.
I love you.
And off you go.
And so you're retraining thebrain because you're going to
get a visceral emotionalresponse to that, because it's
going to feel different.
Because your self-talk is nowshifting from a critic into a

(18:05):
coach and you're training it.

Tim Newman (18:09):
Yeah, and and what that does, and I'm I'm just kind
of thinking that through fromphysiological response in in
that our body has in in in thatas well.
Right.
So when when you um let let'sjust say when you when you have
that that negative self-talk, oryou call yourself an ass, or
you say, damn it, you you'reyou're an idiot.

(18:31):
Why why'd you do that?
Your body goes through the sameresponse as if somebody outside
of you were saying that to you.
Right.
Now we've so so and there isthat physiological response that
um so by changing that uhthat's gonna change by by
changing that self-talk or by byby changing how we approach it,

(18:52):
it's gonna change aphysiological response to um to
make us make us feel in a in adifferent way as well, correct?

Clay Moffat (19:01):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Because you'll start connectingwith the emotion that's coming
from underneath.
So everyone wants to be judgedon their intention, but judges
others on their behavior.

Tim Newman (19:16):
Yes.

Clay Moffat (19:17):
However, this interaction you have internally,
we judge ourselves on behavioras opposed to judging on the
intention.
And so what you're doing bygoing through this process is
you're getting to the root ofwhat's going on.
What's the intention thatyou're trying to communicate to
me?
Okay, let's focus on that.
Let's focus on how we canchange then.

(19:38):
If that's your intention, whatcould you say that's more
aligned with the result that youactually want to get?
So you're basically teachingyourself how to do self-talk in
a way that's useful for you.

Tim Newman (19:55):
How about that?
Let that sit in that for forjust a second, because you know,
w when we do that, when we lookat it from uh from that
perspective with ourselves andwe and we start to communicate
with with others with that sametype of intention, what's gonna
be the the end result?
Number one, I think you'regonna have um you're gonna

(20:18):
you're gonna have you're gonnahave better conversations,
you're gonna have betterconnections, and you're gonna
have better results with whoeverit is that that you're
interacting with.

Clay Moffat (20:27):
Well, you're gonna get twofold.
If you start making it thehabit that your response is when
someone gives you criticism,whatever it is, even if it's
sent uh said in a demeaning way,you say, you know what?
Thanks, man.
I appreciate that.
That means you're giving mesomething to think about.
As soon as they do that, thethe the nagging stops straight

(20:48):
away because they feel likethey've been heard, and it's the
same cycle when you do it toyourself.
Your brain's like, oh, Clay'slistening, Tim's listening, oh,
we're finally paying attentionto what's going on.
Awesome.
And so then that loop that usedto keep playing for hours on
end shuts up because, like, yes,they've got it, and that's the

(21:09):
same thing that happensexternally.
Like, oh, okay, yep, thanks.
I appreciate that.
Thanks very much.
And I used to teach this to uhkids at school when they're
getting bullied because thebullies are usually going
through something and they justcan't deal with something.
And so a bully would saysomething to one of the kids
that uh usually I'd be workingwith parents, and then they'd
say, Oh, my kid's going throughsomething like, Oh, just tell

(21:30):
them say this, tell them saythanks.
Yeah, I've had a really goodday too.
I appreciate you pointing thatout.
Thanks very much.
And the bully's like, uh, what?
And then the kids just keepwalking, and they didn't know
how to respond to it.
And eventually the bully justgave up because there was no
response whatsoever.
And then they come to like, heyman, what's your deal?

(21:50):
Like, I'm I'm giving you a hardtime.
Why are you doing this?
Like, well, because you'repointing out something that you
don't like, and maybe I couldwork on it, so I appreciate it.
And they just walk off.
And these guys have got no ideahow to respond to that.

Tim Newman (22:05):
Yeah, that that that that's such a I'm gonna say
strategy, but that that may noteven be the right word, but it's
it's it's such a good way ofbeing, right, with whoever,
because like you said, the thebully has no idea how to deal
with it.
And so the the bully used tobe.

Clay Moffat (22:25):
I don't either, Tim.
You're you're right.
Um because they're not used tosomeone just going, you know
what, thanks.
I appreciate it.
I appreciate it.
I appreciate it.
Because they're used to someonediving into the behavior itself
versus the intention of thebehavior, right?
And so if you can go, you knowwhat, I think this person
because let's face it, it's veryrare for you to wake up and

(22:47):
have someone go, you know what,today I'm gonna get Tim.
He is screwed.
I'm gonna make sure.
No one no one does that unlessyou've been like a spy and
you've been screwing people overyour entire life, then yeah,
there's a very real chance thatsomeone is out to get you.
But for the most part, no, likepeople, as we spoke about
before, are so involved in theirown head and what's going on,

(23:10):
they're just trying to stay intheir lane and make it through
the end of the day withoutwiping someone else out.

Tim Newman (23:14):
Exactly.

Clay Moffat (23:15):
Or we get caught up on this like drama that, oh,
everyone's out to get me,everyone's gonna go through this
path and they're gonna reallyruin me.
No, no, not even close.
And close.

Tim Newman (23:26):
And it I again, I'm not trying to make light of it,
but it's kind of funny how wegot to that point.
But we I mean, this isn'tanything new.
This isn't something that justcreeped up in you know the last
10 or 15 years.
People have had these thesekinds of thoughts, you know, for
forever, right?
A long time.
You know, it's and it it justbecomes um it just becomes

(23:48):
inherent in in being human.
But it's funny how we how wegot to that point that we're so
worried about what other peopleare doing, even though
everybody's only thinking aboutthemselves.
And we we act on and we behaveon something that isn't isn't
real.

Clay Moffat (24:06):
So it is real from evolutionary psychology point of
view.
It is very important to us whatother people think of because
if they think negatively of us,we're excommunicado, we're out
of the tribe, and now we'regonna die.
And that's built in from a lotof time in tribes as

(24:29):
hunter-gatherers.
We spent a lot more time ashunter-gatherers than we did
since the agricultural age,which is only like the last
10,000 years.
We've got, what is it, 150,000,200,000 years before that, of
priming and conditioning andthese patterns and these scripts
that keep running and keepcycling.
So it's it's still in there.
And then if you look at howfast technology has evolved over

(24:53):
the last 10,000 years, letalone the last 100, it's just
been insane the amount ofbreakthroughs and changes that
have happened.
And our brain doesn't keep up,it doesn't evolve.
Like biologically,physiologically, we don't evolve
that fast.

Tim Newman (25:06):
Well, well, let me let me let me follow up with
that here for just a second.
You know, we're just you know,talking about your kids and my
grandkids, you know, and and me,and you know, I'm I'm like I
said, I'm a recovering collegeprofessor.
And what I found is that theyounger generations are so much
smarter today than they werewhen I was growing up.

(25:29):
I mean, but my my my students,my students at 18 were so much
smarter than I was when I was18.
Not not I'm not saying that Iwas smart, I was an idiot, but
but but intellectually they weresmarter.
They knew more things, right?
Yeah, my my five-year-oldgranddaughter is so much smarter
at five than my daughter, who's34 now, was at five.

Clay Moffat (25:53):
Right.

Tim Newman (25:53):
And so you so you talk about the evolution of the
brain, right?
So so that part's evolving, butthe that inner monologue is not
so that's that's a differentpart, right?
Because well, even myfive-year-old granddaughter will
will say things about well,so-and-so doesn't like me
because of this.
And I said, Well, did they saythat?

(26:14):
And she said, No.
So-and-so is doing thesethings, and and I gotta make
sure that I wear the theseclothes.
And she's at five, Clay.

Clay Moffat (26:24):
So there's a couple of things that, and that's why
it happens.
So you're talking about theeducation system, and the
education system has moneypumped into it.
I don't know about theAmerican, but I know the
Australian does, and most othercountries around the world do,
right?
They have money pumped in toeducate to grow teaching as a
degree is evolving and hasevolved over the last 50 years,

(26:44):
so the teachers are changing,the technology and the
methodology that they use haschanged.
What is messing with people interms of this self and
understanding of the self isthat little boys will mirror
their dads and little girls willmirror their mums.
And whatever weaknesses is notthe right word, but flaws is as

(27:08):
close as I could get.
Okay.
So whatever flaws the motherhas, the daughter will likely
pick up on, even if the motherhas never said anything.
And this was uh done at anexperiment with uh there's a
soap company called Dove.
Yeah.
And there's a video on YouTubewhich you can watch called
Mothers and Daughters, and it'sphenomenal.

(27:31):
They I'll give I'll I will ruinit for you, but it'll say you
haven't to go watch it.
But if you want to watch it, gowatch it.
And basically, they have thesemothers and daughters come in
and the mothers write down alist of everything they dislike
about their bodies, and lo andbehold, these daughters who
range from the age of like fourto twelve have the exact same

(27:53):
things that they don't likeabout their bodies as their
mothers, identical in everysingle time.
And then the mothers are like,but I've never said this in
front of her, I've never I d butthey don't need to say it
because kids are so much like asponge, they can pick up on
things and they can pick up onhow people carry themselves and

(28:13):
how they interact with othersand the social standing and how
they connect with others, and sowe are shaping these kids based
off all of us, and the leakagecomes through.
So you might put on this bravefront, not saying you
specifically, Tim, so we'reclear.
Right.
You in the general sense, allour listeners, everyone, might
put on this brave front when youare facing the camera.

(28:36):
But when you step out of thecamera, your standards drop, you
relax, you don't really care,you don't shave, you don't do
this, whatever.
And so there's two differentstandards.
And kids will pick up on thatleakage and they'll adopt it.
Because from everything I'veread and from everything that
I've studied, and from mytraining in the military, I've

(28:58):
seen it time and time again thatwhen the pressure's on, you
don't rise to this occasion, youdrop to the level of your
conditioning, the level of yourtraining, whatever you want to
call it, the level of yoursystems.
And it's what we do as anatural byproduct of who we are.
So if you have these twodifferent identities, one on
camera, one off camera, then youcan put on the show for a bit

(29:21):
of time, but after time, it isgonna leak.
And what's really there andwhat's really underneath is
gonna come out.
And that's why you can havepeople in the honeymoon period
for the first three months, likethis person's amazing, they're
fantastic, there's nothing wrongwith them.
Then after three months, you'relike, hang on a sec, what's
going on here?

Tim Newman (29:38):
Yeah.

unknown (29:40):
Yeah.

Tim Newman (29:40):
And uh so I I don't know how you've been married,
I've been married almost 30years, and um we still find
things that that that that arecoming out that uh that either
either we we've blocked out, andand you you talk a little bit
about this in in your book,which we'll get to again, we're
we're gonna get to it for ourlisteners.
Um You talked about that thatin your book.

(30:01):
We block it out, not that itwasn't wasn't always there.
We've just decided that itwasn't there.
We blocked it out.
We've we've put that blinder onuntil wow it's it's really kind
of smacks us in the face andhow we deal with that.
But we'll we'll we'll talk tothat in a second.
But but it just that just mademe made me chuckle and and how
that actually relates to to someof those other things.

(30:22):
But but you you're you'reabsolutely you're absolutely
right.
Um I I I think the the the ideaof they they see us and and
they're they're as as kids theysee us and and they're more pers
perceptive than we think, know,or want them to be.
Um for good or for bad, it justis.

(30:42):
And uh they go in and and startto develop some of those same
same traits or characteristicsof let's just say the negative
self-talk like like youmentioned um you have with your
dad.
Um I have with with so some Ihave with my father.
Um I have with you know it it'sthat's just I wouldn't say it's

(31:06):
normal, but it it's it's whatis what what would was kind of
evolve evolved to to be what itis.
You're right, it's normal.

Clay Moffat (31:14):
Normal.
It's perfectly normal.
And I'm gonna screw up my kid.
No disrespect to your daughter.
She's gonna make mistakes withher kids.
Like everyone's gonna pass onthings that we wish that we
wouldn't and wish that wecouldn't.
Yeah.
But the truth of it is, unlessyou're perfect, which no one is.
No one is, and even if youwere, you're still not gonna be
able to predict the exact waythat your child's gonna respond

(31:36):
to everything.
You're right.
And so you've got no clue oflike you the bet you can just do
the best thing that you can.
One of the biggest lessons Iever learned was that as I'm
growing up, I'm watching myparents growing up.

Tim Newman (31:51):
Yes.

Clay Moffat (31:53):
And as soon as I became a parent, I'm like, yeah,
my parents don't have itfigured out, they've got it more
figured out than me, butthey're making it up as they go
along, just like I'm making itup as I go along.
Exactly.
And I'm not gonna get it right.
So probably the the the biggestdifference is I've actually sat
down with both of my kids andhad that conversation with them
and said, Look, I've been a dadas long as you've been uh it's a

(32:16):
son or a daughter.
Or a daughter, right?
And uh I'm still I'm figuringout as much as being a dad as
you are figuring out as being ason as we go along, and I am
going to make mistakes and I'mgoing to screw things up.
And I apologize for that now,but I'm gonna be doing the best
that I can with what I've got.
And that's not to make anexcuse to say how I'm gonna make
your life hell just for the funof it.

(32:37):
It's to tell you like thereality of it.
Like I am still growing upright now, and I'm gonna make
mistakes, and people are gonnamake mistakes, and it's
perfectly fine.

Tim Newman (32:47):
And it's it's it's good for them to actually see
that, to so to to see somebodythat they love and care about
that's um an authority figureowning who they are and and
owning mistakes, own owning thegood and the bad, and making
those adjustments, right?
You know, if if if they see ifthey see you, let's just say,
for example, some of the thingsthat that that that I did as a

(33:09):
parent, I and I still do as aparent, um overreact to things.
You know, o over punish.
Or I I don't overpunish my myadult kids anymore because I
mean, what am I gonna do?
You know.
Uh but but you know, what whenwhen they're kids over punish or
or overreact.
And you know, I would go backand tell them, look, you know,

(33:30):
uh the a lot of times when Ioverreact like that is because
you've scared me.
Right.
You've you you've I I I'm I'mI'm scared you you're gonna get
hurt or um you're gonna putyourself in a position that I
can't help you.
Um th those types of things.
And when they see that youknow, as as kids, they see you a
little bit differently.
But even as let's just say um acoworker, a friend, a boss,

(33:52):
what whatever, they they seethat okay, wow, it's okay to
take actually you know uh takeownership of what you've done
and correct it.
Absolutely.

Clay Moffat (34:06):
It's a valuable lesson.

Tim Newman (34:10):
So what what are some uh uh some blind spots in
that that that kind of hinder usit as as we as we build
effective relationships?
Because again, you know, we wewe just touched on it a little
bit, you know, things there arethings that that our partners
have, that our friends have,that our significant others, our
uh employers have, that we justkind of think aren't there, but

(34:36):
that but they're there.
We we we just choose not to seethem.
What what are some of thosethings and and and how do they
actually um hinder the the thegrowth of relationships?

Clay Moffat (34:46):
The blind sports that other people have or the
blind sports that we have.

Tim Newman (34:50):
Um well both really, because obviously we don't want
anybody to know that we're notperfect, right?

Clay Moffat (34:56):
That's fair.
That's the biggest con that'sgone around, right?
We don't want anyone to thinkthat we're not perfect, yet we
know we're not perfect andeveryone else isn't perfect, but
we all pretend like we'reperfect.
It's insane.
Um the biggest blind spots thatpeople don't realize is going
to be inevitable until you canstart to see the frame in a

(35:19):
different way, is to understandhow the brain works.
And the brain works by wantingto commit everything to
automatic programs or habits asfast as they can.
And so I was venturing downpathways when I was reading up
about emotions, and this is whenI was diving into uh Lisa

(35:40):
Feldwin Barrett's stuff and moreon Surf stuff, Moran Surf
stuff, sorry, and uh a bunch ofother research, and I started to
connect with it, and I used tosay a lot of the times that I
was an angry person.
So I'm saying that past tense,but back then I used to say I'm
an angry person.
And what I've started torecognize and reading through

(36:02):
neuroscience and ledge researchon things like that is that I I
was not, however, I hadexercised those circuits inside
my brain very quickly that itwas very easy for me to get into
anger because I'd rehearsed itso much, so I became a default
response to things.
And that doesn't necessarilymake me an angry person, that
makes me someone that's wellpracticed and well-versed in the

(36:23):
skill of anger.
And so I started looking atthings as emotions and emotions
as being skills.
So you could start to trainyourself to have the skill of
confidence, you can trainyourself to have the skill of
anxiety.
And one of the things when Italk to people with anxiety is
say, look, you've actually gotone of the biggest superpowers
that you just don't understandit and you haven't learned to
train it properly.
Because if you can create sucha vivid imagination in your mind

(36:46):
that you're giving a visceralresponse in such a negative way,
then when you start creatingthose vivid outcomes about good
things, you're going to beunstoppable because you're going
to have this amazing, intensevisualization process to connect
you to these amazing goals andinstill these positive things.
So the biggest blind spot isthese labels that we create for

(37:07):
ourselves through this mechanismof shortcutting everything,
where we put all this label andthen we start creating this
permanent feature aboutourselves or about someone else.
And so we create this that thisis a confidence person, this is
a goofy person, this is astupid person, this is a smart
person, this is a whatever.
And then that itself starts tocreate this lens through which

(37:29):
we view that person, and whenthe lens doesn't match up to
what we're looking for, we startto make excuses for that person
as to oh no, that doesn't thatno that that so let's say we do
the inverse.
Let's say we frame someone as astupid person and then they go
and do something really smart,like oh, that was just luck.
Yeah, they just had a luckyday.

(37:50):
That was just luck.
Exactly.
Right?
And the inverse of that, weframe someone as a smart person,
they do something reallystupid.
We don't go, oh now they'restupid first.
We go, no, they're a smartperson, they just had a bad day,
they just had an off day.
Right.
And so it goes both ways,right?
And it really depends on theframe and what we've got locked
inside our head as to how thatwould manifest as a problem or

(38:12):
an issue, or if it does at all.

Tim Newman (38:16):
Yeah, and it's it's it's funny how quickly we make
those decisions, too.

Clay Moffat (38:25):
I mean, it it those decisions are made pretty
quick, though.
Having said that, for somepeople it's much faster than
others.
So for some people, they getthis instant connection where
they create this process forsomeone, and then once it's
locked in, it takes a lot ofevidence in the contrary to snap
that reality.
Right.
Some people it takes a bit oftime, and there are some people

(38:46):
who will take continuousreinforcement for you to hold
that position.
So, how do you know thatsomeone's good at something?
Oh, they they keep showing upin this way, and I see their
quality of work maintains thisstandard.
Oh, like forever?
Yeah.
Because when they're nothitting that standard anymore,

(39:09):
then I know they're no longergood at it.

Tim Newman (39:11):
Right.

Clay Moffat (39:12):
So it really depends on how the person
interprets information insidetheir brain, and there's
multiple ways that they do.

Tim Newman (39:20):
You know, and I I I guess I'm I'm looking at it from
a perspective of let's let'sjust say careers.
Yep.
You know, a lawyer, you know,we're looking at a lawyer.
Well, we know they're a goodlawyer, uh, a personal injury
lawyer if if they'recontinuously getting
multimillion dollar uhjudgments.
We know they're a good lawyerif they if they're convicted of

(39:42):
the government.
Do you though?

Clay Moffat (39:44):
What if they're doing dodgy things around the
back end?

Tim Newman (39:47):
I'm not you know no.
I I'm just saying on thesurface of things, right?

Clay Moffat (39:51):
Gotcha.
All right, yeah, fair enough.
Yep, absolutely.

Tim Newman (39:53):
So what when we when we see a commercial or or or a
doctor, oh this this guy's beena doctor for you know 30 years,
he's done the this number ofjoint replacements.
Oh, he must be good.
Yep.
Absolutely.
Right.
So we so we're so we're we'renot even making judgments on
somebody that we know.
We're making judgments onthings that we're seeing that

(40:14):
they've done or seeing thingsthat they've put out saying that
they're good.
And then when we go in and wemeet with them or uh interview
them or what have you, and I'mjust saying doctors and lawyers
here as an example, we'vealready got it in an impression
of them in our heads and thefirst thing out of their out of
their mouth when we say, Oh,yeah, they're this is the

(40:36):
person.
Yeah, we're right.
He is really good.
Whether I mean he he could besaying things that that aren't
good, but I mean, we've alreadymade up our minds that this is
the person.

Clay Moffat (40:46):
Yeah, absolutely.
That can happen if you getmultiple sources telling you
that someone's good, it canhappen.
If you see them doingsomething, not that they're
doing something with you, butyou see them do something with
someone else, it can happen.
Right.
There's multiple ways to createthose frames, and once those
frames are created, it isusually pretty difficult for
someone to break it.
And they will filter all theinformation about that person

(41:08):
through those lenses.

Tim Newman (41:09):
Yeah.
And and then to I guess take uhlet's take it another step
forward when um when you whenyou're hiring somebody and you
know somebody recommends them,right?
So like if I'm hiring somebodyand I I talk to my friend, I
say, Do you know anybody who canfill this position for me?
And they're gonna say, Yeah,yeah, yeah, this person is
really good.

(41:29):
Okay, so that that personwithout even meeting them,
talking to them, or seeing theresume or any of their work
product, we already have animpression of them.

Clay Moffat (41:40):
And you mean like uh if you were to hire a friend
of yours to build an app, andthen that app ended up imploding
and costing you over half amillion dollars, and you just
look like a complete moron, youimploded your company that was
doing seven figures, somethinglike that.

Tim Newman (41:55):
Something like that, yeah.

Clay Moffat (41:56):
Yeah, guilty, guilty as charged, yeah.
Um, happens, man, happens toeveryone.
You know, once you put someonein in a frame as an expert and
you've seen them do things withother people, but you don't
really get into the nitty-grittyof how they're running things
and how they're doing things, oryou do see it, but because you
are so I'll use this word veryparticularly, desperate for the

(42:20):
outcome that you want toachieve, that you just start
ignoring the the red flags thatstart coming up, then you
definitely dig yourself a gravevery quickly.
Yeah.

Tim Newman (42:31):
Yeah, and that and I I think that that that's a
that's a common um commonsituation, and not not
necessarily the the app thing,but but like you said, we we
ignore the red flags, ignoringthe red flags for whether
whether it's being desperate orwhether it's being blinded by
emotion, um what what whateverthat reason is, but we we know

(42:53):
that they're there and ignoringthem, that that that is that's
something that happens all thetime.

Clay Moffat (43:00):
So the reason it happens is because of this uh
dissonance between the mentalimage we've got in our head of
who they are and how they'recurrently showing up.
And so what happens as a resultof that is when we create this
person as a safe person or as atrustworthy person or as a good
person or whatever we are, wenow frame all the information

(43:23):
that we get in through thatprocess.
And then to admit to ourselvesthat it's different means
admitting that we got it wrong.
Right.
And the thing of it is that wedidn't get it wrong.
Because when we put them intotheir bracket, at that point,
that was true.
The problem is there's afailure to update the bracket

(43:45):
based on the current informationbecause of the brain's need to
automate and shortcut and turnthings into an automatic
pattern.
So it does because you couldimagine, just imagine for a
minute that you could not putpeople into a trust bracket ever
again, and you had toconstantly assess every single

(44:06):
person that you interact withevery single day.
Could you imagine the amount ofcognitive load that you would
have on your brain with everysingle person and every single
interaction having to payattention?
And the way I talk about it tomake sense of the point is like
if you drive somewhere andyou're driving there for the
first time, the trip seems totake forever.

(44:29):
Why?
Because you're fully present,you're paying attention to every
little piece of data to makesure you get the right way.
Even with a GPS, a lot ofpeople still do this.
Yes.
Now, the return trip feels likeit's going like that.
Why?
Because you already know how toget there, you know how to get
home, so you can just drive homeand you're on autopilot for the
most of the way.

(44:50):
And that's typically whathappens.
So when we're first getting toknow someone, it's like we're
driving to this destination forthe first time, we're paying
attention to the whole lot.
And once we've been there,okay, we've been to that
destination, they've got a goodhouse.
We know this is a safe place,okay.
We can just drive back homenow, and we know that they're in
that place and it's safe andwe're good to go.
And we can't just forget aboutit.

Tim Newman (45:10):
Right.
Right.
And and again, it it's fun,it's funny that that the brain
works that way.
So and this past weekend I wasfollowing somebody home to their
house.
And I I know where they live,but I told them I'd follow them.
And there were a couple oftimes that he wasn't going the

(45:33):
correct way.
You know, and I and I I flashedmy lights, I beeped my horn,
and he just kept on going.
And I said, Okay, I'll I'lljust follow him.
He's not he's not going theright way.
He must be going somewhereelse.
Um, I don't know why he's doingthis, and he did it twice.
And it turned out he he justgoes a different way.

Clay Moffat (45:53):
Yep.
That's how that's how it is,man.

Tim Newman (45:56):
And but but my anxiety my anxiety level went
went through the roof.
Like, we're where you even ifyou let's just say you he's just
going to want to stop at thegrocery store, whatever on the
way home, whatever.
He didn't tell me about it, heforgot whatever.
Um but my anxiety levelunnecessarily went went up for
no reason.

Clay Moffat (46:16):
It didn't go up for no reason.
It went up because yourpredictive errors were going
through the roof because youwere predicting to go a certain
way, and your predictionmechanism was failing massively,
and like whoa, whoa, whoa,whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
So your expectations weregetting shot.
Like you're like you're onD-Day stalling the beach, like
you're just getting reefed withbullets and like you're never
gonna survive.

Tim Newman (46:39):
But if I had just said d done what I said I was
gonna do, I'm just gonna followyou.
With no expectation.

Clay Moffat (46:51):
Or with the expectation that wherever he
went, you were gonna follow.

Tim Newman (46:54):
Right.

Clay Moffat (46:55):
It would have been a different outcome.

Tim Newman (46:56):
Exactly.

Clay Moffat (46:57):
Exactly.

Tim Newman (46:58):
It's it's it's funny how how how the brain works,
and you know, I I get guess thisis where I really want to talk
about get into talking aboutyour your your book because
number one, it's a it's it'samazing.
Um I I need to say that rightright from the get-go.
But you know, a little morethan six months ago, you know,
you you you were driving and youyou you had a problem with your

(47:21):
eye, you had a problem withwith vision in your one good
eye.
And then three months ago,almost to the day, you had you
had surgery on the eye.
But but in between that, thatthat's when you wrote the book,
Trust Trap, and you wrote thatin in 21 days, which to me is is
is amazing.
Can you talk about the processof of writing a book that that
is is hard-hitting and hittingreal life truth in that amount

(47:45):
of time, going through goingthrough what you were going
through at that time.
What what what was that processfor you?

Clay Moffat (47:54):
The simple approach to that is it was a book that
was born out of necessity morethan anything else.
So I had I've written booksbefore, and so we're clear
they're just trash, man.
And I never published itbecause I'm like, ah, I'm not
I'm not writing this.
Like, I yeah, I wrote it, but Iwrote a book just so I can say
I'd written a book, and I'mlike, this is just junk.

(48:16):
Then three, four years ago, Istarted writing another book.
I developed a program calledthe Yellow Brick Code, which
took the world of neuroscienceand psychology and turned it
into this mechanism, thisprocess that would teach you how
to jack in the flow states andget as healthy and optimized and

(48:37):
blah, blah, blah, all the uhbiohacking, neurohacking, flow
hacking, blah, blah, blah.
Excellent, insert all thehackings.
Um, time hacking, I suppose youcould throw on there too,
identity hacking.
And throw it all in togetherand create this like program
which created transformation.
But there was so muchinformation in that system and

(48:57):
in that program that you couldtake it like six times and you'd
still be struggling toimplement all the stuff.
It was a beast.
And I tried to turn that into abook, and I hired a book
writing coach, and it was justno good.
I didn't like it.
Because I'd write, okay, thisis my chapter, and he'd go back
and he'd edit and send it backto me.
I'm like, this is junk, man.
I don't like this.
Like this, it doesn't mesh, itdoesn't feel like me, it doesn't

(49:19):
sound like me.
It's like, yeah, but this isthe good.
I'm like, I don't care if it'sgood, it doesn't sound like me.
So I'd already had anexperience of A, writing
something that was horrible, Bwriting something that I thought
was good that I kept gettingback with what sounded good but
didn't sound like me.
So I'd had those twoexperiences.
Then when it came to my uhimpending surgery, which could

(49:43):
leave me blind in the right eye,because it's the same surgery
that left me blind in my lefteye 15 years ago.
I realized that okay, there's acouple of things at play here.
One, I've been on this journeynow for over a decade, probably
around about 15 years that I'vebeen into self-development,
about 12 years professionallynow, three years just me going

(50:06):
through this process, and thatwasn't self-development, that
was just me going down anegotistical victimhood idea of
how I'm gonna learn tomanipulate, influence, and
control people, which was justhilarious considering where it's
ended up.
Um, but I've got thisknowledge, and there's a very
real chance it's gonna beextremely difficult for me to
coach people if A, I can't see.

(50:29):
I'm gonna need someone else toset up the calls, I'm gonna need
someone else to take the calls,I'm gonna need someone else to
manage basically everything, andthe only thing I'm gonna be
able to do is to rock up oncalls and coach people, which is
fine, but I could see like itwas gonna be extremely taxing on
a lot of people.
So when the surgery date gotset, there was a wave of relief

(50:51):
because I'd found the surgeon, Iknew what the issue was, I knew
what we were gonna do, andthere was a deep apprehension
that had been building because Iwas very much aware that this
could actually be the last timethat I ever get to coach people.
So I had the opportunity towrite one book, and if I could

(51:13):
write one book, what was a bookthat I thought could help the
most people and be aself-contained unit that when I
put it out there would helppeople and would give them a
result that if you read thebook, like if you read the
cover, you read the back cover,it does what it says on the
cover, it does what it says onthe back cover, and like, okay,
I know what I'm getting, this isgoing to get there.
So it was one to a still be ofuse to the world in case I lost

(51:38):
my sight.
It was two, a way to condense15 years of work so it wouldn't
go to waste, and three, it wasabout having a legacy and still
having a way to be able to uhcontribute to the wealth of my
family and my kids and doingthings like that.
So I had a very visceral driveto write something and create

(51:59):
something that was exceptionalbecause I knew if I didn't, it
wasn't gonna sell, it wasn'tgonna go out there, people
weren't gonna buy it, it was awaste of time.
So I had to write somethingthat delivered a punch.
And the way I I had a goal inmind that it was going to be

(52:20):
written so that if someone hadnever met me in person, they
would be able to read it and itwould feel like a very, very
intense coaching session withme.
And the feedback I got from alot of people that have read it
that have been clients of mine,it's like I heard your voice in
my head the whole time, and it'sjust like being coached by you.
So I got that.

(52:40):
So that was a huge amount offeedback.
I was very, very happy to hearthat.

Tim Newman (52:47):
We you know, you you and I talked a little bit about
it.
You know, I I started reading,and it's it it's it's gonna hit
you in the face, and and you youyou need to to when you read
it, sit with it.
Don't just read don't just readit like it like it's a regular
book.
You need to you need to readthe book and let it sit with you
and and and think on it and andand truly absorb you know what

(53:10):
you're saying, because I I Ilike I told you, I I think
you're you're really um spot onwith with with what what you're
saying and and how we um how weapproach things.
Some of the things that we wetalked about today, but uh you
know, I I it's a it's a it's amuch more it's a it's a

(53:31):
different way of approachingthings and I I think a more
realistic and beneficial way forus to approach things if we
want to to move forward and andnot not be worried about you
know the the the idea ofdishonesty or betrayal or or
those types of things, you know,g going back to that extreme

(53:52):
ownership whole idea, you know,what what's our role in it?

Clay Moffat (53:55):
And and what's what's um how how are we playing
a role in our own lives andwhat what's what's our role in
that and that's a huge part ofit a part that I think a lot of
people don't understand inmarketing, they always talk
about making it not theprospect's fault, right?
That's a big thing to alwayspush in online marketing.

(54:17):
Now, the cool thing about thisis that I didn't create some
piece of crap jargon thing toexplain why it's not your fault.
Like this is literal mechanismsthat happen inside your brain
that is based from the perfectstorm of evolution and
neuroscience and language allcoming together to create this

(54:39):
mechanism inside our brain thatbasically plays us for fools.
So it's not your fault.
However, as I always say, it'syour damn responsibility if you
want to do something about it.
You can't pass a butt tosomeone else, you have to take
it on board yourself.
And if you're not prepared todo that, if you're not prepared
to take any kind ofresponsibility towards it, this

(55:02):
book is not going to be for you.
You're gonna hate it, you'regoing to like want to burn it,
and that's fine.
Like, I'm perfectly fine if youwant to do that.
But I'm telling you right now,if you're not prepared to look
through it and go, you knowwhat, let me go into this in a
way to see like how Icontributed to every part of
this in my life, then you'regonna find a very, very painful

(55:28):
journey for 253 pages.

Tim Newman (55:32):
Yeah, read the foreword.
I I I think the forward reallykind of tells you exactly what
you're gonna get.
And you know, I think there area lot of books out there that
when you when you read the frontmatter of them, it's it's a lot

(55:54):
of fluff.
It's a lot of this is great,this is you know, it's a
wonderful book, blah blah blah.
But the foreword on your bookby by by Chase Hughes is
probably one of the best I'veever read, and this is actually
what you're going to get whenyou read the book.
This is what's in it.
If you sit with it, if you ifyou if you truly read it and
digest it, this is what you'regonna get.

(56:15):
It's awesome.

Clay Moffat (56:18):
Yeah, Chase is uh a mentor of mine and and a good
friend, and I have a world ofrespect for that man.
He's helped me in a lot ofways, and uh there's yeah, he's
just he's just an all-aroundgreat guy.
Um when I was writing the book,or even considering writing the

(56:38):
book, he has helped me with thebody language side of things so
much that it's justinstrumental to my understanding
of body language, which coversin like the last quarter of the
book we start going throughlanguage analysis and
non-verbals and paying attentionso you can start reading

(56:59):
behavior and spotting thismisalignment as it's happening.
So that your brain has yourconscious mind has the
ammunition to back up andconnect the red flags with
actually being red flags, so youcan't talk yourself out of
them.
It's not to make you paranoid,it's not to make you conceited,

(57:21):
it's purely to give yourconscious mind the ammunition it
needs that it is currentlylacking, so that you can't just
go, oh, that's okay, that's notthat person.
No, that is that person becausethat's how they're showing up
right now, and you are basingthat's not them because that's
how they've not been in thepast.
Now, pay attention to how thedata is showing up right now

(57:43):
because that's the whole pointof it, just to give you the data
and to give you the strategy soyou can go, okay, I see what's
happening, right?
No worries, we're diverging orwe're aligning, and you can
start to track how the processof this relationship, basically
how you want to be relating tothis person now, is in effect
either working for both of yougoing in the same direction, or

(58:04):
you start to veer off indifferent directions.

Tim Newman (58:06):
Right.
Yeah, right it was and and itcould be different, you know.
You know, but it could it couldbe friends in one situation and
and and co-workers or employeeemployer in one, and two
different situations, twodifferent types of of
interactions.
And and knowing that and beingable to separate that is is also

(58:29):
so important.

Clay Moffat (58:31):
Absolutely.
So what I got from a friend ofmine who's a very successful
online entrepreneur.
She sent me a message and sheshe said, I'm so sorry it took
me so long to read the book.
I usually read books extremelyfast.
I read your book so slowlybecause you've read uh you've

(58:53):
referenced uh Daniel Kennerman,you've referenced Moran Surf,
you've referenced like a lot ofpeople, and then people that she
didn't know about because shehasn't gone into the psychology
in the same way that I have.
But her response in came backto me.
She goes, You know what yourbook gave me?
He said, Nope, but I definitelywant to find out.
She said, You gave mepermission to trust myself

(59:16):
again.
Like, actually trust myself.
I'm like, perfect.
I said, because that's theidea.
Because when you can get backand actually have full,
unbridled self-trust, now youbecome powerful, now you become
unstoppable because you canconnect, you can make decisions,
you can trust those decisions,you can know that's the best

(59:37):
decision for you in the moment.
You get rid of self doubt, youget rid of all the dramas, and
you start to then fulfill therole and fulfill the best
capabilities that you have.
And that was one of the nicestthings that people have said
because the book is supposed tobe a path for liberation for
people, it's not a path toallow.

(59:59):
You to go and find yourself inanother relationship searching
for love.
Because for me, a lot of peoplesay, Well, what about
self-love?
I'm like, Well, let's look atit from this way.
If you can look in the mirrorand say, you know what?
I can trust myself completely,I would say then you're doing

(01:00:20):
pretty well with regard toself-love.
Because that is completeself-acceptance.
If you can trust yourselfcompletely, trust all the
decisions that you're making,trust that you're moving forward
in the right direction, you'rewell on the way to getting what
you want in life.

Tim Newman (01:00:34):
Well, Clay, thank you so much for his where where
can people uh connect with you?

Clay Moffat (01:00:40):
Uh the best place is simple uh X, um on X almost
every day.
It's at Moffat ClayM-O-F-F-A-T-C-L-A-Y.
Or email me go atclaymoffat.com.

Tim Newman (01:00:55):
Awesome.
And I'll put those in in theshow notes.
And it when you say that, it itkind of made me laugh because I
I I was uh listening to ananother show that you were on
and you were talking about andthis part isn't the funny part
where you where you were in umin Houston in jail and the and

(01:01:15):
the guy came Mo Fat and Mo Fatand just made me laugh.
The host said it was a key andpeel type thing, A Aaron.
That just made me obviously notlaughing that you were in jail.

Clay Moffat (01:01:29):
Uh but I was laughing, man.
It was hilarious.
Uh that was that was that waslike the creme de la creme of my
victimhood status.
Right?
Like everyone else that createda situation.
It wasn't the fact that uh Ihad a lot of demons, it wasn't
the fact that I had gone and gotdrunk, it was the fact that all
this other junk.
To be fair, I was extremelygrateful for the fact that that

(01:01:52):
all got resolved.
I was extremely grateful forthe fact that uh all charges
were dropped, and people justput it down to me being a drunk
idiot in the wrong place at thewrong time.
Um exceptionally grateful forthat.
But yeah, that was one of thefunniest moments in my life
because I'm standing there, I'vemade bail, and I'm sitting

(01:02:16):
there, and I this guy's saying,Hey, MoFat, MoFat.
And I'm like, What?
And he said, if you don'tanswer me now, MoFat, you're
spending that.
And I'm like, Do you meanMoffat, Clayton?
Don't be as smart, like it'sliterally like that campaign.
Don't be as smart as with me.
I'm like, all right, yep,that's me.
And then out I go.
So that's awesome.

Tim Newman (01:02:37):
That's awesome, yeah.
Uh well, I I get at leastthere's there you can find some
humor in some of the things, andand to to me that's that that's
a that's a big deal.
I if I'm not having fun, Ithink I'm doing it wrong.

Clay Moffat (01:02:51):
So anyway.
There's a lot of humor in a lotof the dumb stuff that I've
done.
I just kind of laugh at myself.
I'm like, what were youthinking?
Exactly.
So you know, and it's fine.

Tim Newman (01:03:03):
It's better.
Been there done that and andyou know, just all the t-shirts
as well.
Exactly.
Well, Clay, thanks so much forspending some time with us.
I I really do appreciate it.
And uh take care and we'll talkto you soon.

Clay Moffat (01:03:18):
I appreciate it.
Thanks for having me.

Tim Newman (01:03:21):
Be sure to visit speakingwithconfidence
podcast.com to get your freeebook, the top twenty-one
challenges for public speakersand how to overcome.
You can also register for theforum for public speaking.
Always remember your voice is apower changer.
We'll talk to you next time.