June 23, 2025 • 51 mins
Leadership isn’t about having all the answers; it’s about knowing the right questions to ask. In this episode of Speaking with Confidence, host I am joined by nationally recognized executive performance coach John Little to explore the real work behind powerful communication and authentic leadership.
With over 25 years of coaching and consulting experience, John shares how his EMBRACE framework helps professionals overcome imposter syndrome, build real confidence, and communicate with clarity. Together, we unpack the subtle difference between ego and confidence, the impact of generational communication styles, and why trust is the foundation of leadership, not charisma.
If you’ve ever felt like you weren’t “enough” in a room full of leaders, or you’re tired of faking it just to keep up, this conversation is your permission slip to lead with what makes you unique.
In this episode, we cover:
- Why imposter syndrome might be a sign of potential
- How technology is reshaping (and sometimes ruining) our communication instincts
- The “unfair advantage” hiding in your personal story
- Ego vs. confidence: How they really show up in the workplace
- Practical strategies for building trust and influence as a leader
- Why humility, storytelling, and listening are the new power tools of leadership
Whether you’re new to leadership or a seasoned executive, John’s insights will help you show up with more presence, purpose, and confidence.
Connect with John:
http://www.linkedin.com/in/bigjohnlittle
https://thewinnersedgecoaching.com
Visit TimNewmanSpeaks.com to grab your free eBook, The Top 21 Challenges for Public Speakers and How to Overcome Them, and start building the confidence you deserve!
Want to be a guest on Speaking With Confidence? Send Tim Newman a message on PodMatch
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Episode Transcript
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Tim (00:08):
Welcome to Speaking with Confidence, the podcast
dedicated to helping you unlockthe power of effective public
speaking.
I'm Tim Newman, a recoveringcollege professor turned
communication coach, and I'mthrilled to guide you on your
journey to becoming a powerfulcommunicator.
I want to thank each and everyone of you for your support.
It truly means the world to me.
If you have questions or if youwant something covered in the
podcast, just send me an email.
(00:30):
Please visittimmanwithspeakscom to get your
free ebook the Top 200Challenges for Public Speakers
and how to Overcome them.
Our guest today is John Little.
He's a nationally recognizedexecutive performance coach,
speaker and leadership expertwith over 25 years experience
helping leaders break throughself-doubt and step into their
(00:50):
full potential.
He has coached hundreds ofprofessionals into executive
roles by tackling impostersyndrome head-on and building a
personal leadership brand thatcommands influence.
His approach is bold,insightful and transformational,
so get ready to take notes,reflect and walk away empowered.
John, welcome to the show, bud.
John (01:12):
Thanks, tim, appreciate it .
Happy to be here.
Tim (01:15):
We have some things in common from our professional
background in the sport industry, and it's not the glamorous,
jet-setting life most peoplethink it is.
John (01:24):
Absolutely not.
It's the it's, it's the grimyunder under parts of it.
That, uh, that that you knowthat we've had that experience
in.
Tim (01:32):
Yeah, it's.
You know, at least for me itwas, it was fun while it lasted,
and there's things I miss, butthere's a reason why I'm not
doing it anymore and and uh, uh,I like it much better on on
this side of the of the aislethan than than you know the the
grind that it is.
John (01:52):
Absolutely.
Yeah, you know it's funny.
I tell people all the time whenI share my background of, you
know, working for 10 years insports television, and people
say, oh, that must've beenamazing and like, well, yeah, I
mean it was.
Uh, you know, it was like everynight going to to to work at a
sports bar with no alcohol, butwe had all the games and had you
know, had all the camaraderiethat you would expect and all
(02:13):
the rivalries and all the trashtalking and all the fun.
But that's just.
You know, waiting for the bluejays and angels to finish a 13
inning game on the west coastwhen you're in Atlanta in the
middle of July.
And you and you know thatthat's just.
That's just Wednesday.
Like it's going to happen againAt a certain point.
(02:34):
You realize I don't know if Iwant that the rest of my life.
Tim (02:37):
Exactly.
That's it's again that's,that's a piece that nobody sees
and and you know it is what itis and it's for.
You know, I really think thatthose types of things are for
the younger generations and asyou get older and and have
families and kids and otherresponsibilities, it, you know,
(02:58):
those types of things at leastfrom my perspective take away
from the things that I think areimportant, like, like, like
family and relationships andthose types of things.
But God bless them.
We've got to have it.
It's the driver.
John (03:11):
Absolutely.
Tim (03:11):
It is what it is.
That's right.
It's right, yeah, but one ofthe things that we talked about
in the pre-show meeting is abouthow the younger generation of
people grew up completelydifferent than we did, you know,
from being outside and playingwith friends unsupervised, to
how we communicate with eachother.
(03:32):
We had landlines.
Most people don't even knowwhat that is Like.
I told you I had the rotarydial phones before we even had
the.
I just call it electronic, thenon-tethered kind.
Yeah, the push button types ofthings, and you were lucky if
(03:54):
you had call waiting right.
John (03:56):
Right.
Tim (03:58):
And now we have these smartphones that they go off
constantly, you can patch 17people in to one phone call, all
these other things and I thinkthat really kind of changed how,
um, how, how generations havenot only grown up, but but how
they've been raised and how theydeal with issues such as
(04:18):
adversity and resilience.
What are your thoughts on that?
John (04:23):
no, I completely agree, and you know it's.
Whenever I talk about this, I'malways mindful to not be the
old man shouting at the cloudsand you know the back in my day,
you know, but it it definitelyis different today than it was
when, when we were growing up,you know, I, I was caller id.
Uh, you know I would answer thephone and I would announce who,
who it was, that was on the andif my parents wanted to speak
(04:44):
to them, they did, and if not,then I was a call screener.
Tim (04:47):
Yeah, they weren't home, Right Dad are you home?
John (04:51):
No, Okay.
But you know, those things thatwe experienced growing up and
kind of the way that weexperienced them growing up,
they certainly did lay adifferent groundwork and
foundation than people havetoday.
Again, it's not right or notwrong, it's just different,
right, and you know the thingsthat we learned of, you know,
(05:12):
talking to people talking to.
There there was, you know,there was the don't talk to
strangers, but there wasn't thestranger danger that exists
today, right there, you know, Iremember walking to school my
entire, entire, and I grew up ina smaller, you know, smaller,
town.
I didn't grow up in a big city,but I remember walking to
school every day, not thinkinganything of it.
My parents thought nothing ofit.
You know, there there was a lotmore freedom and experiences
(05:37):
that I was having as a kid.
That Seth, that definitely setthat foundation for kind of not
an adventurous spirit so muchset that foundation for kind of
not an adventurous spirit somuch, but just kind of a lack of
fear and intimidation from theworld.
That has kind of served methroughout my life of not being
afraid to do things differently,not being afraid to take
chances here and there, notbeing afraid to look at
experiences and if it doesn'twork out, like OK, what's next?
(05:59):
Right?
You talked about the adversityand the resilience.
You know a lot of those lessonswere learned early on in life,
kind of growing throughexperiences that I had.
Tim (06:11):
Yeah, and again, we kind of grew up right around the same
time and you know, talk aboutwalking to school.
I actually had thisconversation last week with
somebody taking the school bus.
So, where I lived, if you livedwithin a mile of the school,
you had to walk.
It wasn't and it didn't matterif it was raining, didn't matter
if it was snowing, it if, ifyou lived within a mile you were
(06:34):
, you were walking it, andthat's right.
So so we had snow days, but wedon't have snow days like today,
like if it's, if there's athreat of snow, you know
everything shuts down, but youknow you were going to school
and that's just what it is.
And I think that's really kindof all those types of things
that have affected how we managestress, how we, um, you know,
(06:57):
look at things from from thebigger picture.
You know, like you said, interms of in terms of adventure
and trying new things, and Ikind of think that that also
kind of leads into why we havenow there's been the whole idea
of imposter syndrome for forever.
But I think part of that iswhere we are today is because of
some of those changes in howwe're raising our kids.
John (07:21):
I could completely agree with you.
You know, one of the big thingswith imposter syndrome that
people experience and it doesn'tmatter if it's someone who's
new in their career, it doesn'tmatter if someone who's just
getting started, doesn't matterif it's someone who's telling
you you don't deserve to be here, you shouldn't be here, um, and
the reality is, if you're inthose rooms, if you're in those
(07:51):
spaces, you're there for areason.
You're there because you'veeither earned that space or
you've been invited in Um.
And so the mindset of like kindof knowing that you can go
places that you haven't beenbefore, the understanding that
you can be a little bit of apioneer, you can be someone who
(08:12):
does things that that youhaven't seen or experienced
before, those things help toovercome imposter syndrome.
Uh, and it is, it's kind of adisconnecting thought process
that you have to have.
You know, whenever Iexperienced this and I know we
have, you know, whenever Iexperience this and I know we'll
unpack this further whenever Iexperience imposter syndrome and
I do, you know, I just likeanybody else, there's times
where I have those questions,those doubts.
(08:33):
I always remind myself like I'mhere for a reason and I can
kind of go through my, my, mybrag book of accomplishments, if
you will, of okay, here is howI earned space to be here.
Here's how I earned thisopportunity to be in this space.
Tim (08:48):
Yeah, and and and I think you really kind of nailed it the
whole, the whole idea of, ofgetting rid of that negative
self-talk or or whatever youwant to call it imposter
syndrome, I mean there's, wehave all kinds of names for it
is, you know, building anddeveloping that confidence.
And it's funny I saw a videothis morning.
One of the first things I doand maybe this is again me
(09:09):
growing up is when I wake up Iread news, you know quick
headlines if I want to readsomething more in depth,
whatever and then I go and Ilook at LinkedIn and just kind
of get an idea of what's goingon for the day.
And there was a reel thatactually talked about confidence
and how a lot of times what wedo and he got nailed it A lot of
(09:30):
times what we do is we thinkthat confidence is the after
effect.
But what he said was confidenceis the building, confidence is
the process.
It's the by doing some, bydoing the things, we build
confidence which allows us to,you know, try something even
further down the line andfurther down the line, further
down the line.
So understand that theconfidence isn't the, isn't the
(09:53):
end, it's part of the processthere's, there's kind of three
pockets that people will willlook at.
John (10:09):
They'll look at confidence , um, they'll look at a lack of
confidence, or they'll look atego, right, yeah, yeah, and a
lack of confidence.
What's what's really funny isthat lack of confidence and ego
are kind of the same things.
They just show up differently,very different, um, but like
true confidence.
When someone has trueconfidence, oh my god, that's
just so inspiring.
Like you can just see how coolthat is for them.
You can see how they just kindof own the space that they're in
(10:32):
.
They're unapologetic about whothey are.
They can really lean into theirauthenticity, like they have to
fill the space with whatever itis that they feel like they
have to say in the moment.
People with great confidenceare often the ones who are also
great leaders, because peopleare just drawn to them, um, and
(10:53):
so that, again, from from animposter syndrome standpoint,
it's like what are the thingsthat help me feel confident?
What are the things that buildmy confidence?
Uh, what are the things thatthat helped me be and be
authentic and then share thatwith the world?
And I was doing a presentationfor a group last week yeah, last
last Thursday, I did it forthem, and I shared a video from
(11:16):
Mike Krzyzewski.
Mike Krzyzewski, coach K, youknow, retired from Duke.
You know, us men's basketballcoach for a number of years, and
he was talking about theroutine team in 2008.
Um, and one of the things thathe said before one of the
meetings with the players was Idon't believe in check your ego
at the door.
Like, bring your ego into theroom, bring it with you.
(11:38):
Um, and there was like a littlebit of pushback from the
company because they were likereally mindful of that word ego.
So I helped them reframe it.
I was like, in that context,that ego is their superpower.
Right, we're talking about Kobe, we're talking about LeBron
James, we're talking aboutDwayne Wade, we're talking about
Jason kid, we're talking aboutsome of the best to ever do it
Like they need to bring thatsuperpower with them.
(11:59):
But that ego is not I'm betterthan you.
That ego is I have fullconfidence that I can do
everything.
So, it's just kind of sometimesthe words get a little bit mixed
up, but I love that you broughtconfidence into the
conversation.
Tim (12:14):
Yeah, and you're absolutely right, A lot of times ego has a
negative connotation and withthe way that it's presented and
the way that we act on ego, itdoes have that negative
connotation.
But, like you said, if we justdo a little shift in that
mindset which is a lot of whatwe do anyway we're just really
trying to help people shifttheir mindset, understand that
(12:36):
ego can be a very good andpowerful thing to help us get
through whatever it is that ourchallenges are yeah, it's funny,
easy, I.
John (12:47):
I look at that confidence again, um, also through the lens
of humility and, like peoplewill.
Sometimes it's funny whenpeople say, oh, I'm the most
humble person that you'll met,or that you'll meet, right
anytime someone brags on theirhumility.
I got questions about that,right, um, humility is something
that that shines Like peoplesee that in you.
(13:14):
I am someone and I'm going tosound ridiculous by saying this
but I consider myself to behumble because I don't like put,
you know, a whole bunch ofmyself out there in a way that's
like in a braggadocious way.
But I do feel like, for thethings that I do for you know,
as a leadership coach, um, forsomeone who talks about
leadership all the time, I feellike that's what I do.
For, you know, as a leadershipcoach, um, for someone who talks
about leadership all the time,I feel like that's what I do
really really well.
But I don't have to tell youthat.
(13:35):
I would much rather show youthat.
But I feel confident that ifyou give me the opportunity,
then you're going to walk awaywild but I'm not going to tell
you, I'm going to wow you, I'mgoing to give you everything.
I you know.
That's that.
Because then you set yourselfup for uh, uh for either, not
for failure, but you setyourself up to look foolish.
Sometimes you oversell throughyour ego yeah, yeah.
Tim (13:58):
And you know, there are a few things that if people say
that they are like I'm humble,I've got, I've got integrity,
I've got integrity, I've gothonesty.
Okay, because again, if I'vegot to tell you those things,
then those are things that justshine through and come through
with people and it just kind ofmakes me laugh because for me
(14:21):
those are red flags.
As soon as somebody says thatI'm already, I'm taking a step
back, I'm thinking, okay, I'mhaving a different conversation
in my head and that sort ofthing.
John (14:32):
Absolutely.
Tim (14:34):
Those are just traits that should shine through.
But what do you think the roleof technology plays today in
terms of imposter syndrome?
Because, again, remember, likeI said, imposter syndrome has
been around for forever.
It's not something new.
Yeah, what role do you think?
John (14:53):
technology plays in that for our younger generations.
So many layers, so many layers.
Um, you know, we, we can, wecan talk about what we see on
social media, um, and and andwhat's real and what's uh,
what's not.
When we see things on, you know, just scrolling on Instagram,
um, you know, you see so manythings that if you measure
yourself against your screen,you're always going to fall
(15:15):
short because you're measuringyourself against someone's
intentional portrayal of whattheir experiences may or may not
be and I know that sounds likeword salad, but it really is.
Like, you know, when you putsomething out there on social
media, that's what you want theworld to perceive is your truth.
(15:36):
Um, and, if you're scrolling andif you're watching that, if
you're measuring yourselfagainst that, of course there's
going to be the doubts and theconcerns of, like you know, I'm
not there or I don't have thisthe same experience this person
has, like I haven't been to theplaces that they've been, I
haven't done the things thatthey that they've done, I
haven't seen the things thatthey've seen.
Um, the reality is so much ofthat is just.
(15:58):
You know, I'm going to use anold school word for gazey- it's
all fake, you know it's almost,it's all fake, but a lot of it
is just show.
And if people are measuringthemselves against that um,
without having the realitychecks to balance it out, then
that can certainly feed into theimposter syndrome of I should
have more, I should do more, Ishould be somewhere that I'm not
(16:18):
Um, and then they get some ofthose, those self-doubts, some
of those concerns pop in, um,you know.
So that's one way thattechnology certain certainly has
, uh, has, has contributed toimposter syndrome.
I think, even though I, I, I've, I really value AI and I see
where it's super beneficial andI use it in my business a lot, I
(16:41):
also recognize how AI can helpit could, it could create some
of those places of insecuritieswithin people.
If you see what somebody isproducing or you see what
somebody is sharing, or even ifyou're kind of you know, if
you're measuring yourselfagainst the, the machine of, you
(17:02):
know, wow, I didn't know that.
I, you know, I didn't know allthis information out of all
these these different you knowcomponents of something that I'm
trying to learn that could beintimidating, right, it's so.
It's so important, I think, forpeople to to kind of be present
in the moment, you know, kindof recognize and accept where
you are as where you are today.
But where you are today is justthe next step towards tomorrow.
(17:26):
Tomorrow, right, you knoweverything.
Everything can be kind of alaunching point Rather than kind
of getting bogged down in whereyou may be or where you think
you should be, you know.
Start today and leap forward.
Tim (17:43):
Yeah, and there's again with technology, there's so much
information out there and somany different directions that
people can go.
Just because you know somebodyon on TikTok or Instagram is
doing it this way doesn't meanthat they know everything about
everything.
Right, you know, and maybe youwant to put a different slant on
(18:03):
things, or maybe you have, youwant to go in a different
direction.
You know our life experienceslead us to where we are today
and that's what's going to helpus go where we are tomorrow, and
we all have different lifeexperiences.
It doesn't really matter and Ithink that's the other thing
that really kind of gets lost inthis, just because how many
(18:28):
leadership coaches are out there?
There's a ton.
How many communication coachesout there?
There's a ton.
How many basketball coaches arethere.
John (18:40):
They all have.
Tim (18:41):
A lot of them are really, really successful.
They all have their own way.
They all have their own way ofcommunicating, they all have
their own systems, and it'swhatever resonates with those,
with the people, that that thatthey're leading and and so we
don't all have to be the same.
We don't all have to have thesame level of knowledge.
We don't all have to have thesame level of whatever it is you
be, you, get better at beingyou, and you're going to be just
(19:04):
fine.
John (19:06):
You know, tim, I love you said that because it reminds me
of one of the things that Ilearned a few years ago.
That was just a game changerfor me Because, yeah, I mean,
you can't throw a stone onLinkedIn without hitting a coach
, right, whether they're aleadership coach, executive
coach, communications coach,career coach, a LinkedIn coach.
I mean, good Lord, you simplyyou can't do it.
(19:27):
But what I learned a few yearsago is the power of
understanding your unfairadvantage, and everybody has an
unfair advantage, and thatunfair advantage is you are the
only you, like your experiences,your perspectives, your
knowledge, your thoughts, likeall of those things are uniquely
(19:49):
yours, right?
So by not being afraid to be anindividual in a in a crowded
space, by not being afraid tospeak and share the things that
make you, you know, unique thatthose things are your unfair
advantage, Right?
And our pre-show meeting, youknow, we we talked about a
little bit about our backgroundsand I shared with you that I
(20:11):
had, you know, what I call acareer jungle gym, because where
I am today.
If you told 21 year old me, asI was graduating from college,
that this is where I would be atthe right young age of 54, I'd
be like.
That makes no sense ever.
I have no.
I have no interest in being acorporate America.
I have no interest in, you know, working with HR folks Like if
(20:35):
you had told 21 year old me thatI would have said you're crazy.
All of the experiences thatI've had throughout my career in
my life make me the exactperfect person to be where I am
today in those spaces talking tothose people, sharing my
experiences and perspectives.
Tim (20:53):
Yeah, and and hopefully young people can understand that
they're in a.
They're in a much better placefrom that perspective.
You know cause when we we weregrowing up.
You better not be an individual,you better just fall in line.
Everybody's going to do it thisway.
Everybody's going to do it thisway.
Everybody's going to do it thisway, yep.
And now we're in a time periodwhich is, I I think, a whole lot
(21:15):
better for us as as a societyto let and allow people and
embrace people, and encouragepeople to be individuals and to
find ways to do thingsthemselves, and it's okay to
embrace it and and really kindof lean into it yeah, it's funny
because, like in when we weregrowing up again back you know,
(21:36):
in the the same time frame thatthat many of your, your
listeners, are in from the agestandpoint, individuality was
really frowned upon was right.
John (21:46):
It was like if you were an individual, you were an outcast
.
Frowned upon was right, it waslike if you were an individual,
you were an outcast.
It's not like it is today,where when you're an individual,
you have things that can becelebrated.
And the other thing thathappened when, when there were
individuals that were outcasts,was there was no community for
them, there was no place forthem to go.
Today there's so manycommunities that you could find.
(22:06):
So, whatever your interests are,whatever it is that lights you
up, whatever it is that you wantto pursue, there's a community
for that and you can find it andyou can connect with it.
Because, like I had my firstcell phone, I think at maybe 25
or 26, right or 26 right, um, myfirst, even though I, because
(22:32):
of where I grew up in upstatenew york, you know we would take
family trips to montreal and tothe uh, to niagara falls, so,
like I had been out of thecountry before but I, like I had
no exposure to the actual worldI had never spoken to anybody
in a different country, um,until I was into my 30s, yeahies
, because the world wasdifferent.
The world is is.
Is is accessible now, which isso amazing for people who are
(22:53):
trying to find how to fit, howto connect with, with things
that are important to them.
And those things help to buildconfidence too, because when you
feel like you're all alone onthe Island, it's hard to get
confidence.
Tim (23:05):
But when?
John (23:05):
you have that community when you have people that affirm
you.
You have people that say youknow, yeah, I agree.
I see the same things.
I've experienced the world in asimilar way.
Good Lord, that just brings thewalls down so much it allows
people to be confident it reallydoes.
Tim (23:21):
And you know, it's such a simple concept for us because,
again, we've lived it, We'vedone those things and we've been
over here and now we see howmuch things are different and
it's easy for us to understand.
But but trying to get theyounger generation to take that
next step, um, it's to me that'swhat I find really difficult.
(23:41):
And you know, I, I tell peoplea lot that today's younger
generations, I think, are somuch smarter than we were at
that age.
They're so much moreentrepreneurial than we were at
that age, but theircommunication skills are so much
worse than ours were, andthat's the thing that's really
(24:02):
holding them back.
John (24:05):
I agree, the access to information is so much greater
now than it's ever been.
Um, as I was just saying, theaccess to the world is so much
better now than it's ever been.
The downside of communicationand the communication devices
that we have and the ways tocommunicate, is there are so
many ways to communicate thatdon't require you to actually
(24:26):
speak and talk to people, right,um, you know, you can have an
entire relationship withsomebody over text.
Um, you know, I have my bestfriends who would be on friends
for 30 plus years.
We have a group chat.
We talk multiple times in thegroup chat a day.
I just spoke to one of my bestfriends in the world on the
(24:47):
phone the other day for thefirst time in probably a year
and a half.
Um, because we're just we're.
We're in constant, we're inconstant conversation or
communication, but we justhaven't had conversations.
Right, that's the, that's thegap that exists, is, is, and
that that's where those musclesget built and you learn how to
(25:10):
communicate.
Is when you're actually talkingto people, um, or when you're
actually, you know, speakingpublicly or on a podcast or
whatever.
That's where you really buildthose muscles up.
Tim (25:22):
Yeah, and, and I just I'm going to just take that one step
further you know we talkedabout how I'm a recovering
college professor and lastsemester was my last semester,
and so what I realized about soabout a month or so ago, what I
missed was the personalinteraction.
I miss being around people.
You know, I miss the, you know,the day-to-day of seeing people
(25:46):
shaking their hand, having thatface-to-face conversation.
You know, these types of thingsin the podcast is great and I
love it.
You know, I haven't been thisprofessionally fulfilled in a
long time, but I miss thatinterpersonal interaction and
it's just like you said, it'sthat muscle that if you don't
use it, you lose or you becomestatic in those skills where
(26:10):
everybody else is getting betterat it, and it is something that
you know, again, from the youngprofessional's perspective.
What they have to understand isthe only way to get better at
these types of things is to goout and start doing them.
John (26:23):
Absolutely Humans by design are social animals.
So there's something within us.
Whether we're extroverted,whether we have introversion
preferences, it doesn't matter.
Tim (26:34):
We still have that social engine within us that needs to
be space and I would say all ofleadership really revolves
(26:56):
around communication and I did apresentation a couple weeks ago
where I threw out a stat thatyou know 92% of talent and HR
professionals value soft skillsjust as much or more than hard
skills and we're not reallyteaching soft skills anywhere in
(27:16):
our education system as they'regrowing up People from you know
.
Because we need leaders fromall walks of life, in every
business, every industry, everylittle aspect of life.
We need people who are leaders.
(27:36):
How do we get people with verylittle to no good communication
skills to be able to grow that,to actually turn into an
effective leader?
John (27:49):
It's flipping it on its head a little bit.
It's recognizing that the softskills are now hard skills.
Oh, I can learn, wow.
Okay, I can learn many hardskills now, either through
YouTube or through e-learning,digital learning I can learn the
hard skills and I can rep thehard skills.
Learning digitally I can learnthe hard skills and I can rep
(28:11):
with the hard skills.
The soft skills are the harderones to teach now because we
don't have the environments thatsupport those.
As we once did, prior to COVID,most people went to the office
five days a week, 40 hours aweek.
That community that you have atwork, like that, was a way that
people were able to exercisethose muscles.
Um, now that we're in a workfrom home hybrid, some back to
(28:33):
work, um, situations like it's,it's different, it's challenging
.
So how do we?
You know?
To your question, how do we nowbuild those things up?
One it takes individualownership.
It takes that that want to ofrecognizing.
If I want to grow in my career,if I want to be a leader, I do
have to practice these skills.
(28:53):
I do have to practicecommunication skills.
Part of it, part of it, startsin this.
This is things that I've workedwith, with, with leaders, is
don't be afraid to raise yourhand and ask so if there's a
project that you want to be on,if there's a team that you want
to learn more about, if there'sa meeting that you want to be in
, uh, if you want to grow likepeople aren't going to know that
(29:14):
until you open up your mouthand you share it.
So, like building up theconfidence to ask, hey, you know
, I want to learn more aboutthis.
Can I come to this meeting?
Um, you know, I have questions.
I was on this call.
I have questions.
You know, can I take you tolunch for 50?
Can I take you to lunch?
Can I get 15 minutes?
Can we go walk and get a coffee?
Um, you know, can we hop on azoom?
Any way that you can createopportunities to have the
(29:40):
one-on-one conversations right,that's a way to build that
muscle, um, and by doing that,you're going to stand out,
because there aren't people thatare doing that now.
There's a lot of people who arewaiting for opportunities to
come to them.
But the more proactive you areabout creating those
opportunities for thoseconversations, that's where
things, that's where the musclegets built.
(30:01):
That's also where trust getsbuilt with people who you're
trying to you know, get you know, to get on the radar, raise
your profile with whomever, andthat's where confidence grows,
because the more that you startto see that that works, the more
confident you are in doing it.
Tim (30:17):
Yeah, again, really, really good points, and I wish young
people could understand thepower of being curious, the
power of asking questions, thepower of going to somebody and
say, can we have, can I get 15minutes?
Let's go get coffee, like likecoffee.
You said that's you know,because I want to learn more.
(30:38):
That automatically elevatesthem from their peers.
That in and of itself, you'regoing to learn something,
especially if you, if you'recoming from it, from a place of
being curious, and you'rebringing value, you're not.
You're going to learn something, especially if you're coming
from a place of being curiousand you're bringing value,
you're not asking surface-levelquestions, you're asking
thoughtful questions and you'reshowing that you truly want to
(31:01):
learn and get better.
And then if you do a goodfollow-up piece after that, I
mean how much that actuallyelevates you and separates you
from from your peers.
I wish we, I wish they, youknow, I wish they would just
listen to us and and and and dothose types of things.
It would, it would be so muchbetter for them.
(31:22):
But, um, those things are sopowerful.
John (31:25):
Yeah, I mean, you know a personal, a personal thank you
goes, you know it's, it's, it'sso simple, but it goes just so
far.
Uh, especially today when, whenthose those things just don't
quite get done as frequently.
Um, I mean, I can't tell youthe last time I've gotten a
handwritten note, but whenever Iget one it's like I appreciate
it doesn't really matter whatthe note says, I appreciate that
(31:47):
someone took the time right,actually sit down and write
something, right.
Those are the things that makea difference.
Um, also, not being afraid toto say that you don't know what
you don't know.
Um, when it comes to impostersyndrome, that's one of the
things that people will get hungup on is if I say I don't know
what this means, then what'sthat going to say?
What are people going to think?
What message send?
(32:07):
But the reality is, if youdon't know, then the best way to
find out is to ask.
Like I, one reason why I wasterrible at sales was like fake
until you make it just doesn'twork.
Tim (32:18):
for me it doesn't work for me.
John (32:19):
Like I can't, you know, I can't fake it, that cause,
that's not authentic to who I am.
Like, if I don't know, I'm notgoing to try to act like that.
I do.
I'm going to find out.
I'm going to ask questions, I'mgoing to try to learn, um, and
people here's the other thingthat people don't know.
Most people want you to succeed.
Yes, they do.
Most people want you to succeedand they'll help to support
(32:41):
your success.
So, asking questions to help tobe successful, those are the
things that people will want tohear from you.
They don't want you to to tryto figure it out on your own all
the time, or flop or flail, um,you know they're.
They're not going to sabotageyou.
If you say, hey, can youexplain what this means to me?
Like, people want you tosucceed because success makes
(33:01):
everybody's life easier andbetter.
Tim (33:04):
Yes, yes, that's uh, I, you know, I think that is that's
something would probably be myone of my top things to get
across to to people.
Um, let's put it this way, Idon't know anybody that would
hire somebody in hopes that theyfail.
It doesn't make any sense,right?
(33:27):
Um, right, I don't know of ofany professional that is that
that hopes other other peoplethat hope other people fail.
I just don't.
And if you do know those people, then those aren't the people
that you want to be aroundanyway exactly, and maybe that's
why I I don't know any of thosepeople, but you know it's.
(33:48):
It's that that also, I think,comes back to that, that whole
inner, inner dialogue, that thatthat we have sometimes, and
just get get over that.
People want to help, that's,that's just it.
Nobody wants you to fail, it'sjust it just doesn't make any
sense when you, when you thinkabout it from from a logical
(34:10):
perspective.
John (34:10):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's counterintuitive for people to
put you in a position thatyou're not going to succeed in
(34:37):
tactical, transactional piecesthat they are actually leading.
The better that you are atteaching and delegating, the
better your job and the easieryour job becomes, because then
you, you, you aren't working andinterning at the same company
at the same time.
Right, and a lot of leaderswill do that is, they'll be so
invested in the actual work,work, work of things that
they're not strategizing andthey're not being visionary is
where and that's where we needleaders to be Like.
(35:00):
I don't need a leader tohandhold me through the work
Once they've showed me how to doit.
What I need a leader to do isput me in a position to succeed,
support my success and help usmove to the next level.
Right, um, so it's.
It's that was listened to apodcast yesterday John Maxwell
podcast.
(35:20):
That was one of the things thatthat that he was talking about
is that, you know, leadersshouldn't be delegating work and
tasks.
They should be delegatingauthority, which is don't let me
, like, sit here and do the workwith you or tell you the
step-by-step of what I want youto do.
I want to tell you the outcome,I want to tell you the desired
(35:40):
result, I want you to figure outyour path, and when you get
stuck, that's where you I'mgoing to step in and help.
Tim (35:47):
You know that, again, really good points John Max was,
I don't say it, but I mean he's.
He's phenomenal.
I love what he says and what hedoes.
How much do you do you thinkthat what you just talked about
comes from a lack of a lack oftraining?
Because you know, as as I, as Ilook at it, when when people
(36:08):
get promoted, they get numberone, they they get promoted
because they're good at whatthey do right, they're good at
the task that they're doing ortasks that they're doing.
They get promoted intomanagement and don't have
management skills and they getcaught into that trap that you
just talked about.
And then they get promotedbecause, again, there's a
difference between managementand leadership.
And then they get promoted intoleadership and they've never
(36:30):
really developed the managementskills.
So now, as a leader, they'reback to doing exactly what you
just said.
John (36:44):
It happens far more frequently than the opposite.
Yeah, most organizations don'thave a robust leadership
development strategy, and whenleadership development
strategies look like is I'mgoing to work on the leaders
being more transformationalminded, being more strategic,
being more visionary, being morefocused on the people than the
(37:06):
work itself.
Because when you're anindividual contributor, maybe
even when you're a frontlinemanager, that's your thing.
It's like you are doing thework and that's where you shine
and that's where you willpotentially get promoted.
But then, when you get promoted, a lot of times there's not
that training that helps peopletake that next step right and
shift.
That's why people get stuck ineither middle management roles
(37:30):
or.
We hear so much, you know,feedback and noise in the world
about bad leaders andorganizations that struggle
because they don't have goodleaders.
Um, you know, leaders whoaren't accountable, leaders who
who don't listen, leaders thatthat they don't trust.
We hear so much of that andit's it's always weird.
It's like so they got to thatposition because they were
terrible.
No, no, they got to thatposition because they were
(37:51):
really good at something right.
That something isn't whatthey're needing to be doing
right now, but they don't.
They haven't gotten the thelevels of support and
development.
Uh, to succeed in that role theway that they should.
Tim (38:05):
Right, you know I almost think that that that that
training and development shouldhappen before they're promoted.
Right, absolutely, as you know.
So you know, when you're inyour frontline position, you
know there's a managementleadership track If this is what
you want to do.
You know these are the classes,this is the training that we
offer.
You know we'll send you to thisschool, whatever it is.
(38:26):
You know, and I think you know,it's so much more cost
effective to do that than tohave to hire somebody or have to
clean up messes or or spend abunch of time and energy later.
You know, do it on the frontend.
That makes it's providingbenefit to the employee, which
(38:51):
is when the back end is going tohelp the organization.
It's.
It shows that the employee,that you care about them and
their development, which isgoing to help the organization.
It shows the employee that youcare about them and their
development, which is going tomake them, you know, buy more
into the process and into theorganization.
It's a much better way ofprogressing.
I think and you know it's goodfor me to say that out here,
(39:14):
where I'm not in those spaces,but you know to me it's much
more cost-effective andbeneficial doing it that way
than the current model.
Let's just put it that way.
John (39:31):
Yeah, $25,000 pool of money.
Do you want to invest that$25,000 in the future of your
organization by doing someleadership training, doing some
management training, doing somecoaching?
Or do you want to spend thatmoney on an outside recruiter
and advertising for job you knowjob openings and things like
(39:54):
that Because people keep leavingyour organization?
Right, right, it's the samepool of money.
It's just you want to invest itor you want to spend it.
Investment you're going to geta return If you spend it you
might not, right.
Tim (40:10):
I read a stat recently that it costs $5,000 to $7,000 to
hire a new employee, right, andif you know, depending on the
size of your company, at five,$7,000 is one for one person.
It's a lot of money.
And if you're a biggerorganization, bigger corporation
, and you're doing that, ifyou're hiring somebody every
(40:31):
week, which we know someorganizations are, that's I mean
how much money are you wasting?
Are you losing there?
John (40:40):
That adds up.
Tim (40:41):
It really does.
John (40:43):
And at higher levels in the organization.
You know if it's leaders thatyou're replacing.
The higher up in theorganization someone is, the
higher the cost is.
There's another stat that it cantake up to 1.3, over the span
of a year 1.3 times the salaryof somebody who leaves.
To replace them, hire them,train that person and set them
(41:05):
up to to to meet the level ofwhere the person was when they
left.
So it's not so that that 1.3,you know times investment isn't
that you're getting someonewho's at that 1.3 level of
advancement.
You're spending that much justto get back to where you were on
the day that person left, andthat's just money.
(41:26):
Think about time and everythingelse.
So, yeah, it makes so much moresense to invest and for
individuals, if you have theaspirations to grow, invest.
Invest in yourself now, and itdoesn't have to be money, like
listen to podcasts aboutleadership um you know follow.
follow the right people on on um, on YouTube and LinkedIn.
(41:46):
You're not saying who thoseright people are, cause it's
different for everybody, butlike find your thought leaders
that resonate with you and thenstart to implement the things
that you learn and whatever rolethat you're in today.
Tim (41:58):
Exactly, and I just want to make this point too.
You don't have to go get an MBAeither, because I mean, that's
that seems to be, you know, witha lot of young people.
Well, I'm just going to go getan MBA, maybe you do, maybe you
don't.
Again, I'm not saying one wayor the other, but a lot of times
that's not the answer, becauseyou don't need to spend all that
(42:22):
money on yourself.
Maybe a corporation ororganization will do it for you
if you're in the right position.
Or maybe you don't even needthose skills right now, and
that's something that can beadded later.
There's so many moreopportunities out there for
learning and developmenttraining than spending thousands
upon thousands of dollars toget an MBA.
(42:44):
And that's coming from a collegeprofessor and I just I mean,
I'm just open and honest aboutit A lot of times we spend money
on college degrees which wehave no need to begin a college
degree.
John (42:58):
Right, yeah, I mean, I come from a family of educators.
My mom taught elementary schoolfor 35 years, my dad was an
assistant principal and aprincipal for about the same
amount of time, and both of themhave graduate degrees.
My sister had a graduate degree, I have a bachelor's.
I've never had anybody ask meabout my credentials.
(43:19):
They see the work that I do.
They hear the things that Ishare.
They see the value in thosethings.
That's what matters.
That's what matters.
I'm like you.
I'm like I'm not going to sayone way or the other, right or
wrong, do or don't.
Most of the time, people don'tcare about alphabet soup.
They don't.
(43:39):
They care about results.
How can you help me?
Tim (43:43):
Exactly, Exactly.
And one more thing you can'treally help them if you're
worried about you know, payingback thousands of dollars,
student loans, because that'swhere your mind is and you're
more worried about the.
Again, I'm not saying thatmoney isn't important, but
you're worried about the moneyand not some other things that
(44:05):
are important, but again I'llleave that there.
What are some in terms ofleadership and communication?
You know, because again wethink that leaders there's a
perception out there thatleaders have it all under
control, but what are some ofthe internal barriers that they
(44:26):
have in terms of communication?
John (44:30):
Yeah, the number one thing that I find with leaders as a
barrier is they don't understandhow to build trust.
Tim (44:36):
Oh yeah.
John (44:37):
Trust is the foundational thing that leaders need to build
Understanding how you buildtrust with people, how you learn
to trust people, what'simportant for you when you're
connecting with someone in orderfor you to start to trust them,
and also understanding whatthey need from you in order for
them to start trusting you.
Also understanding what theyneed from you in order for them
(44:57):
to start trusting you.
If you don't solve that trustequation, it makes everything
much harder and, from acommunication standpoint, once
you have trust, then you cancommunicate at a much deeper
level, because it removes thebarriers and the fear of if I
say something, it's going to betaken a different way, right?
(45:21):
So if, if I trust you, tim, andwe have spent the time to build
trust and rapport, like I cantell you something and I can
tell it to you in a way that Iexpect that it's going to land
with you, and even if it lands alittle bit differently or if it
lands off of what I thought itmight, if we have a trusting
relationship, then you're goingto.
You're going to recognize thatmy intent was good, right?
(45:44):
Maybe my delivery was bad,right.
If we don't have trust and ifwe haven't spent any time
building trust.
I'm going to hear everythingthrough my lens and interpret it
through how I feel.
You are saying somethingbecause I don't know any better.
Right, right, and that can begood, that can be bad, like
someone could.
You could get a compliment fromsomeone and you may think that
(46:06):
it's the best thing in the world, and they may just have been
saying something kind of off thecuff, like if you don't, if you
don't really understand whereit's coming from, then it's
really hard to truly understandsomeone.
It makes it much harder tocommunicate.
So building trust is thefoundational piece for leaders
when it comes to communication.
Tim (46:24):
Yeah, trust is so hard to build but so easy to lose and
you know, it's something that Ithink people really need to
think about as they go through,make decisions.
Communicate with people, howthey interact and how they make
(46:50):
those decisions is reallyimportant, which, to me, is also
something that builds trust isreally important, which, to me,
is also something that buildstrust.
I mean, if you make decisionsbehind closed doors and don't
give any type of context,especially some hard decisions,
trust is gone.
John (47:07):
I mean it's just gone.
Tim (47:08):
Again, it doesn't mean you have to go the other way.
You don't have to giveeverybody all the information
either, but there needs to besome open, honest communication,
some transparency, some sittingdown and both sides being
willing to have the hardconversations and understand
it's business it's not personalRight and be able to approach
(47:29):
from that perspective.
So trust, you're right, trustis really paramount.
John (47:39):
Yeah, trust, your trust is is really paramount.
Yeah, you know, you mentionedthe word transparency super
important.
Vulnerability, equally asimportant.
You know?
Uh, just a quick cheat sheetfor for you and your listeners
on trust.
Like people will build trustgenerally two ways.
They'll either build trustthrough wanting to, you know,
build a relationship withsomeone, and then that's how I'm
going to learn about trustingthem.
Uh, do I want to learn moreabout this person, I want to
(48:00):
invest in that relationship, ordo I need to see evidence of
work over time?
Do I need to see evidence ofcredibility over time before
I'll start to trust someone?
So that's the first questionthat people need to ask
themselves is like when I meetsomeone, what am I looking for
from that person?
That people need to askthemselves is like when I meet
someone, what am I looking forfrom that person?
Am I looking for a personalconnection or am I looking to to
(48:20):
kind of evaluate them, uh, andsee, do they bring value, do
they bring credibility?
Neither one of them is right orwrong.
It's just a process that we useto build trust.
When you can start tounderstand that about yourself,
then you can start to buildtrust with people quicker,
because you know what you'relooking for exactly and then you
can start to ask thosequestions of people too, right
when it comes to you know, kindof feeding or feeling out where
(48:43):
their trust uh, where theirtrust levers are and the things
that they use to build trust.
So, like using that cheat sheet, using that that process can
really streamline building trustwith people quickly.
Tim (48:54):
Yeah, it's so true, but again you said it you got to
know who you are first and howyou build that trust, or what's
important to you in buildingtrust and what your process is
which is you know we can.
We can go down that rabbit holeand talk for hours on that too.
So Absolutely.
But, john, this has been reallygood stuff.
(49:15):
Where can people find you ifthey want to work with you?
John (49:19):
Yeah, so people can uh go to my website, um,
wwwthewinnersedgecoachingcom.
Uh, the place that I'm reallyprobably the most present and
active is on LinkedIn.
Um, so linkedincom slash inslash, big John little, is where
people can find me on LinkedIn.
That's where I typically willspend, that's kind of my social
(49:40):
platform of choice and that'swhere I engage with most folks
on there.
Tim (49:45):
And John, I'll tell you and I'll tell the listeners too.
You got to follow John.
He puts out some really reallygood information.
It's timely, it's actionable,it's on point information.
It's timely, it's actionable,it's on point.
Now I'm not saying others onLinkedIn, don't do that.
But John, you do a really,really good job of that and so
hopefully listeners will startfollowing you there, but again.
(50:09):
John, thank you so much forspending some time with us today
.
I love what you're saying.
I think that our audience isgoing to get a lot of good,
actionable advice out of thisand some things to think about
whether it's getting rid of thatvoice in our head, being
confident enough to take thatnext step, just to start doing
(50:29):
the thing, whatever it is, andjust lean into who you are.
John (50:34):
Yeah, Thank you, Tim.
I really appreciate thisopportunity.
Talking about leadership andtalking about confidence and all
I mean.
These things are myprofessional love language, so
anytime I get a chance to shareit, I'm really grateful.
So thank you for thisopportunity.
Tim (50:48):
All right, my friend, you take care and we'll talk to you
soon.
John (50:51):
Sounds good, you too.
Tim (50:53):
Be sure to visit speakingwithconfidencepodcastcom
to get your free ebook Top 200Challenges for Public Speakers
and how to Overcome them.
You can also register for theFormula for Public Speaking.
Always remember your voice hasthe power to change the world.
We'll talk to you next time,take care.
Welcome to Speaking with Confidence, the podcast
dedicated to helping you unlockthe power of effective public
speaking.
I'm Tim Newman, a recoveringcollege professor turned
communication coach, and I'mthrilled to guide you on your
journey to becoming a powerfulcommunicator.
I want to thank each and everyone of you for your support.
It truly means the world to me.
If you have questions or if youwant something covered in the
podcast, just send me an email.
(00:30):
Please visittimmanwithspeakscom to get your
free ebook the Top 200Challenges for Public Speakers
and how to Overcome them.
Our guest today is John Little.
He's a nationally recognizedexecutive performance coach,
speaker and leadership expertwith over 25 years experience
helping leaders break throughself-doubt and step into their
(00:50):
full potential.
He has coached hundreds ofprofessionals into executive
roles by tackling impostersyndrome head-on and building a
personal leadership brand thatcommands influence.
His approach is bold,insightful and transformational,
so get ready to take notes,reflect and walk away empowered.
John, welcome to the show, bud.
John (01:12):
Thanks, tim, appreciate it .
Happy to be here.
Tim (01:15):
We have some things in common from our professional
background in the sport industry, and it's not the glamorous,
jet-setting life most peoplethink it is.
John (01:24):
Absolutely not.
It's the it's, it's the grimyunder under parts of it.
That, uh, that that you knowthat we've had that experience
in.
Tim (01:32):
Yeah, it's.
You know, at least for me itwas, it was fun while it lasted,
and there's things I miss, butthere's a reason why I'm not
doing it anymore and and uh, uh,I like it much better on on
this side of the of the aislethan than than you know the the
grind that it is.
John (01:52):
Absolutely.
Yeah, you know it's funny.
I tell people all the time whenI share my background of, you
know, working for 10 years insports television, and people
say, oh, that must've beenamazing and like, well, yeah, I
mean it was.
Uh, you know, it was like everynight going to to to work at a
sports bar with no alcohol, butwe had all the games and had you
know, had all the camaraderiethat you would expect and all
(02:13):
the rivalries and all the trashtalking and all the fun.
But that's just.
You know, waiting for the bluejays and angels to finish a 13
inning game on the west coastwhen you're in Atlanta in the
middle of July.
And you and you know thatthat's just.
That's just Wednesday.
Like it's going to happen againAt a certain point.
(02:34):
You realize I don't know if Iwant that the rest of my life.
Tim (02:37):
Exactly.
That's it's again that's,that's a piece that nobody sees
and and you know it is what itis and it's for.
You know, I really think thatthose types of things are for
the younger generations and asyou get older and and have
families and kids and otherresponsibilities, it, you know,
(02:58):
those types of things at leastfrom my perspective take away
from the things that I think areimportant, like, like, like
family and relationships andthose types of things.
But God bless them.
We've got to have it.
It's the driver.
John (03:11):
Absolutely.
Tim (03:11):
It is what it is.
That's right.
It's right, yeah, but one ofthe things that we talked about
in the pre-show meeting is abouthow the younger generation of
people grew up completelydifferent than we did, you know,
from being outside and playingwith friends unsupervised, to
how we communicate with eachother.
(03:32):
We had landlines.
Most people don't even knowwhat that is Like.
I told you I had the rotarydial phones before we even had
the.
I just call it electronic, thenon-tethered kind.
Yeah, the push button types ofthings, and you were lucky if
(03:54):
you had call waiting right.
John (03:56):
Right.
Tim (03:58):
And now we have these smartphones that they go off
constantly, you can patch 17people in to one phone call, all
these other things and I thinkthat really kind of changed how,
um, how, how generations havenot only grown up, but but how
they've been raised and how theydeal with issues such as
(04:18):
adversity and resilience.
What are your thoughts on that?
John (04:23):
no, I completely agree, and you know it's.
Whenever I talk about this, I'malways mindful to not be the
old man shouting at the cloudsand you know the back in my day,
you know, but it it definitelyis different today than it was
when, when we were growing up,you know, I, I was caller id.
Uh, you know I would answer thephone and I would announce who,
who it was, that was on the andif my parents wanted to speak
(04:44):
to them, they did, and if not,then I was a call screener.
Tim (04:47):
Yeah, they weren't home, Right Dad are you home?
John (04:51):
No, Okay.
But you know, those things thatwe experienced growing up and
kind of the way that weexperienced them growing up,
they certainly did lay adifferent groundwork and
foundation than people havetoday.
Again, it's not right or notwrong, it's just different,
right, and you know the thingsthat we learned of, you know,
(05:12):
talking to people talking to.
There there was, you know,there was the don't talk to
strangers, but there wasn't thestranger danger that exists
today, right there, you know, Iremember walking to school my
entire, entire, and I grew up ina smaller, you know, smaller,
town.
I didn't grow up in a big city,but I remember walking to
school every day, not thinkinganything of it.
My parents thought nothing ofit.
You know, there there was a lotmore freedom and experiences
(05:37):
that I was having as a kid.
That Seth, that definitely setthat foundation for kind of not
an adventurous spirit so muchset that foundation for kind of
not an adventurous spirit somuch, but just kind of a lack of
fear and intimidation from theworld.
That has kind of served methroughout my life of not being
afraid to do things differently,not being afraid to take
chances here and there, notbeing afraid to look at
experiences and if it doesn'twork out, like OK, what's next?
(05:59):
Right?
You talked about the adversityand the resilience.
You know a lot of those lessonswere learned early on in life,
kind of growing throughexperiences that I had.
Tim (06:11):
Yeah, and again, we kind of grew up right around the same
time and you know, talk aboutwalking to school.
I actually had thisconversation last week with
somebody taking the school bus.
So, where I lived, if you livedwithin a mile of the school,
you had to walk.
It wasn't and it didn't matterif it was raining, didn't matter
if it was snowing, it if, ifyou lived within a mile you were
(06:34):
, you were walking it, andthat's right.
So so we had snow days, but wedon't have snow days like today,
like if it's, if there's athreat of snow, you know
everything shuts down, but youknow you were going to school
and that's just what it is.
And I think that's really kindof all those types of things
that have affected how we managestress, how we, um, you know,
(06:57):
look at things from from thebigger picture.
You know, like you said, interms of in terms of adventure
and trying new things, and Ikind of think that that also
kind of leads into why we havenow there's been the whole idea
of imposter syndrome for forever.
But I think part of that iswhere we are today is because of
some of those changes in howwe're raising our kids.
John (07:21):
I could completely agree with you.
You know, one of the big thingswith imposter syndrome that
people experience and it doesn'tmatter if it's someone who's
new in their career, it doesn'tmatter if someone who's just
getting started, doesn't matterif it's someone who's telling
you you don't deserve to be here, you shouldn't be here, um, and
the reality is, if you're inthose rooms, if you're in those
(07:51):
spaces, you're there for areason.
You're there because you'veeither earned that space or
you've been invited in Um.
And so the mindset of like kindof knowing that you can go
places that you haven't beenbefore, the understanding that
you can be a little bit of apioneer, you can be someone who
(08:12):
does things that that youhaven't seen or experienced
before, those things help toovercome imposter syndrome.
Uh, and it is, it's kind of adisconnecting thought process
that you have to have.
You know, whenever Iexperienced this and I know we
have, you know, whenever Iexperience this and I know we'll
unpack this further whenever Iexperience imposter syndrome and
I do, you know, I just likeanybody else, there's times
where I have those questions,those doubts.
(08:33):
I always remind myself like I'mhere for a reason and I can
kind of go through my, my, mybrag book of accomplishments, if
you will, of okay, here is howI earned space to be here.
Here's how I earned thisopportunity to be in this space.
Tim (08:48):
Yeah, and and and I think you really kind of nailed it the
whole, the whole idea of, ofgetting rid of that negative
self-talk or or whatever youwant to call it imposter
syndrome, I mean there's, wehave all kinds of names for it
is, you know, building anddeveloping that confidence.
And it's funny I saw a videothis morning.
One of the first things I doand maybe this is again me
(09:09):
growing up is when I wake up Iread news, you know quick
headlines if I want to readsomething more in depth,
whatever and then I go and Ilook at LinkedIn and just kind
of get an idea of what's goingon for the day.
And there was a reel thatactually talked about confidence
and how a lot of times what wedo and he got nailed it A lot of
(09:30):
times what we do is we thinkthat confidence is the after
effect.
But what he said was confidenceis the building, confidence is
the process.
It's the by doing some, bydoing the things, we build
confidence which allows us to,you know, try something even
further down the line andfurther down the line, further
down the line.
So understand that theconfidence isn't the, isn't the
(09:53):
end, it's part of the processthere's, there's kind of three
pockets that people will willlook at.
John (10:09):
They'll look at confidence , um, they'll look at a lack of
confidence, or they'll look atego, right, yeah, yeah, and a
lack of confidence.
What's what's really funny isthat lack of confidence and ego
are kind of the same things.
They just show up differently,very different, um, but like
true confidence.
When someone has trueconfidence, oh my god, that's
just so inspiring.
Like you can just see how coolthat is for them.
You can see how they just kindof own the space that they're in
(10:32):
.
They're unapologetic about whothey are.
They can really lean into theirauthenticity, like they have to
fill the space with whatever itis that they feel like they
have to say in the moment.
People with great confidenceare often the ones who are also
great leaders, because peopleare just drawn to them, um, and
(10:53):
so that, again, from from animposter syndrome standpoint,
it's like what are the thingsthat help me feel confident?
What are the things that buildmy confidence?
Uh, what are the things thatthat helped me be and be
authentic and then share thatwith the world?
And I was doing a presentationfor a group last week yeah, last
last Thursday, I did it forthem, and I shared a video from
(11:16):
Mike Krzyzewski.
Mike Krzyzewski, coach K, youknow, retired from Duke.
You know, us men's basketballcoach for a number of years, and
he was talking about theroutine team in 2008.
Um, and one of the things thathe said before one of the
meetings with the players was Idon't believe in check your ego
at the door.
Like, bring your ego into theroom, bring it with you.
(11:38):
Um, and there was like a littlebit of pushback from the
company because they were likereally mindful of that word ego.
So I helped them reframe it.
I was like, in that context,that ego is their superpower.
Right, we're talking about Kobe, we're talking about LeBron
James, we're talking aboutDwayne Wade, we're talking about
Jason kid, we're talking aboutsome of the best to ever do it
Like they need to bring thatsuperpower with them.
(11:59):
But that ego is not I'm betterthan you.
That ego is I have fullconfidence that I can do
everything.
So, it's just kind of sometimesthe words get a little bit mixed
up, but I love that you broughtconfidence into the
conversation.
Tim (12:14):
Yeah, and you're absolutely right, A lot of times ego has a
negative connotation and withthe way that it's presented and
the way that we act on ego, itdoes have that negative
connotation.
But, like you said, if we justdo a little shift in that
mindset which is a lot of whatwe do anyway we're just really
trying to help people shifttheir mindset, understand that
(12:36):
ego can be a very good andpowerful thing to help us get
through whatever it is that ourchallenges are yeah, it's funny,
easy, I.
John (12:47):
I look at that confidence again, um, also through the lens
of humility and, like peoplewill.
Sometimes it's funny whenpeople say, oh, I'm the most
humble person that you'll met,or that you'll meet, right
anytime someone brags on theirhumility.
I got questions about that,right, um, humility is something
that that shines Like peoplesee that in you.
(13:14):
I am someone and I'm going tosound ridiculous by saying this
but I consider myself to behumble because I don't like put,
you know, a whole bunch ofmyself out there in a way that's
like in a braggadocious way.
But I do feel like, for thethings that I do for you know,
as a leadership coach, um, forsomeone who talks about
leadership all the time, I feellike that's what I do.
For, you know, as a leadershipcoach, um, for someone who talks
about leadership all the time,I feel like that's what I do
really really well.
But I don't have to tell youthat.
(13:35):
I would much rather show youthat.
But I feel confident that ifyou give me the opportunity,
then you're going to walk awaywild but I'm not going to tell
you, I'm going to wow you, I'mgoing to give you everything.
I you know.
That's that.
Because then you set yourselfup for uh, uh for either, not
for failure, but you setyourself up to look foolish.
Sometimes you oversell throughyour ego yeah, yeah.
Tim (13:58):
And you know, there are a few things that if people say
that they are like I'm humble,I've got, I've got integrity,
I've got integrity, I've gothonesty.
Okay, because again, if I'vegot to tell you those things,
then those are things that justshine through and come through
with people and it just kind ofmakes me laugh because for me
(14:21):
those are red flags.
As soon as somebody says thatI'm already, I'm taking a step
back, I'm thinking, okay, I'mhaving a different conversation
in my head and that sort ofthing.
John (14:32):
Absolutely.
Tim (14:34):
Those are just traits that should shine through.
But what do you think the roleof technology plays today in
terms of imposter syndrome?
Because, again, remember, likeI said, imposter syndrome has
been around for forever.
It's not something new.
Yeah, what role do you think?
John (14:53):
technology plays in that for our younger generations.
So many layers, so many layers.
Um, you know, we, we can, wecan talk about what we see on
social media, um, and and andwhat's real and what's uh,
what's not.
When we see things on, you know, just scrolling on Instagram,
um, you know, you see so manythings that if you measure
yourself against your screen,you're always going to fall
(15:15):
short because you're measuringyourself against someone's
intentional portrayal of whattheir experiences may or may not
be and I know that sounds likeword salad, but it really is.
Like, you know, when you putsomething out there on social
media, that's what you want theworld to perceive is your truth.
(15:36):
Um, and, if you're scrolling andif you're watching that, if
you're measuring yourselfagainst that, of course there's
going to be the doubts and theconcerns of, like you know, I'm
not there or I don't have thisthe same experience this person
has, like I haven't been to theplaces that they've been, I
haven't done the things thatthey that they've done, I
haven't seen the things thatthey've seen.
Um, the reality is so much ofthat is just.
(15:58):
You know, I'm going to use anold school word for gazey- it's
all fake, you know it's almost,it's all fake, but a lot of it
is just show.
And if people are measuringthemselves against that um,
without having the realitychecks to balance it out, then
that can certainly feed into theimposter syndrome of I should
have more, I should do more, Ishould be somewhere that I'm not
(16:18):
Um, and then they get some ofthose, those self-doubts, some
of those concerns pop in, um,you know.
So that's one way thattechnology certain certainly has
, uh, has, has contributed toimposter syndrome.
I think, even though I, I, I've, I really value AI and I see
where it's super beneficial andI use it in my business a lot, I
(16:41):
also recognize how AI can helpit could, it could create some
of those places of insecuritieswithin people.
If you see what somebody isproducing or you see what
somebody is sharing, or even ifyou're kind of you know, if
you're measuring yourselfagainst the, the machine of, you
(17:02):
know, wow, I didn't know that.
I, you know, I didn't know allthis information out of all
these these different you knowcomponents of something that I'm
trying to learn that could beintimidating, right, it's so.
It's so important, I think, forpeople to to kind of be present
in the moment, you know, kindof recognize and accept where
you are as where you are today.
But where you are today is justthe next step towards tomorrow.
(17:26):
Tomorrow, right, you knoweverything.
Everything can be kind of alaunching point Rather than kind
of getting bogged down in whereyou may be or where you think
you should be, you know.
Start today and leap forward.
Tim (17:43):
Yeah, and there's again with technology, there's so much
information out there and somany different directions that
people can go.
Just because you know somebodyon on TikTok or Instagram is
doing it this way doesn't meanthat they know everything about
everything.
Right, you know, and maybe youwant to put a different slant on
(18:03):
things, or maybe you have, youwant to go in a different
direction.
You know our life experienceslead us to where we are today
and that's what's going to helpus go where we are tomorrow, and
we all have different lifeexperiences.
It doesn't really matter and Ithink that's the other thing
that really kind of gets lost inthis, just because how many
(18:28):
leadership coaches are out there?
There's a ton.
How many communication coachesout there?
There's a ton.
How many basketball coaches arethere.
John (18:40):
They all have.
Tim (18:41):
A lot of them are really, really successful.
They all have their own way.
They all have their own way ofcommunicating, they all have
their own systems, and it'swhatever resonates with those,
with the people, that that thatthey're leading and and so we
don't all have to be the same.
We don't all have to have thesame level of knowledge.
We don't all have to have thesame level of whatever it is you
be, you, get better at beingyou, and you're going to be just
(19:04):
fine.
John (19:06):
You know, tim, I love you said that because it reminds me
of one of the things that Ilearned a few years ago.
That was just a game changerfor me Because, yeah, I mean,
you can't throw a stone onLinkedIn without hitting a coach
, right, whether they're aleadership coach, executive
coach, communications coach,career coach, a LinkedIn coach.
I mean, good Lord, you simplyyou can't do it.
(19:27):
But what I learned a few yearsago is the power of
understanding your unfairadvantage, and everybody has an
unfair advantage, and thatunfair advantage is you are the
only you, like your experiences,your perspectives, your
knowledge, your thoughts, likeall of those things are uniquely
(19:49):
yours, right?
So by not being afraid to be anindividual in a in a crowded
space, by not being afraid tospeak and share the things that
make you, you know, unique thatthose things are your unfair
advantage, Right?
And our pre-show meeting, youknow, we we talked about a
little bit about our backgroundsand I shared with you that I
(20:11):
had, you know, what I call acareer jungle gym, because where
I am today.
If you told 21 year old me, asI was graduating from college,
that this is where I would be atthe right young age of 54, I'd
be like.
That makes no sense ever.
I have no.
I have no interest in being acorporate America.
I have no interest in, you know, working with HR folks Like if
(20:35):
you had told 21 year old me thatI would have said you're crazy.
All of the experiences thatI've had throughout my career in
my life make me the exactperfect person to be where I am
today in those spaces talking tothose people, sharing my
experiences and perspectives.
Tim (20:53):
Yeah, and and hopefully young people can understand that
they're in a.
They're in a much better placefrom that perspective.
You know cause when we we weregrowing up.
You better not be an individual,you better just fall in line.
Everybody's going to do it thisway.
Everybody's going to do it thisway.
Everybody's going to do it thisway, yep.
And now we're in a time periodwhich is, I I think, a whole lot
(21:15):
better for us as as a societyto let and allow people and
embrace people, and encouragepeople to be individuals and to
find ways to do thingsthemselves, and it's okay to
embrace it and and really kindof lean into it yeah, it's funny
because, like in when we weregrowing up again back you know,
(21:36):
in the the same time frame thatthat many of your, your
listeners, are in from the agestandpoint, individuality was
really frowned upon was right.
John (21:46):
It was like if you were an individual, you were an outcast
.
Frowned upon was right, it waslike if you were an individual,
you were an outcast.
It's not like it is today,where when you're an individual,
you have things that can becelebrated.
And the other thing thathappened when, when there were
individuals that were outcasts,was there was no community for
them, there was no place forthem to go.
Today there's so manycommunities that you could find.
(22:06):
So, whatever your interests are,whatever it is that lights you
up, whatever it is that you wantto pursue, there's a community
for that and you can find it andyou can connect with it.
Because, like I had my firstcell phone, I think at maybe 25
or 26, right or 26 right, um, myfirst, even though I, because
(22:32):
of where I grew up in upstatenew york, you know we would take
family trips to montreal and tothe uh, to niagara falls, so,
like I had been out of thecountry before but I, like I had
no exposure to the actual worldI had never spoken to anybody
in a different country, um,until I was into my 30s, yeahies
, because the world wasdifferent.
The world is is.
Is is accessible now, which isso amazing for people who are
(22:53):
trying to find how to fit, howto connect with, with things
that are important to them.
And those things help to buildconfidence too, because when you
feel like you're all alone onthe Island, it's hard to get
confidence.
Tim (23:05):
But when?
John (23:05):
you have that community when you have people that affirm
you.
You have people that say youknow, yeah, I agree.
I see the same things.
I've experienced the world in asimilar way.
Good Lord, that just brings thewalls down so much it allows
people to be confident it reallydoes.
Tim (23:21):
And you know, it's such a simple concept for us because,
again, we've lived it, We'vedone those things and we've been
over here and now we see howmuch things are different and
it's easy for us to understand.
But but trying to get theyounger generation to take that
next step, um, it's to me that'swhat I find really difficult.
(23:41):
And you know, I, I tell peoplea lot that today's younger
generations, I think, are somuch smarter than we were at
that age.
They're so much moreentrepreneurial than we were at
that age, but theircommunication skills are so much
worse than ours were, andthat's the thing that's really
(24:02):
holding them back.
John (24:05):
I agree, the access to information is so much greater
now than it's ever been.
Um, as I was just saying, theaccess to the world is so much
better now than it's ever been.
The downside of communicationand the communication devices
that we have and the ways tocommunicate, is there are so
many ways to communicate thatdon't require you to actually
(24:26):
speak and talk to people, right,um, you know, you can have an
entire relationship withsomebody over text.
Um, you know, I have my bestfriends who would be on friends
for 30 plus years.
We have a group chat.
We talk multiple times in thegroup chat a day.
I just spoke to one of my bestfriends in the world on the
(24:47):
phone the other day for thefirst time in probably a year
and a half.
Um, because we're just we're.
We're in constant, we're inconstant conversation or
communication, but we justhaven't had conversations.
Right, that's the, that's thegap that exists, is, is, and
that that's where those musclesget built and you learn how to
(25:10):
communicate.
Is when you're actually talkingto people, um, or when you're
actually, you know, speakingpublicly or on a podcast or
whatever.
That's where you really buildthose muscles up.
Tim (25:22):
Yeah, and, and I just I'm going to just take that one step
further you know we talkedabout how I'm a recovering
college professor and lastsemester was my last semester,
and so what I realized about soabout a month or so ago, what I
missed was the personalinteraction.
I miss being around people.
You know, I miss the, you know,the day-to-day of seeing people
(25:46):
shaking their hand, having thatface-to-face conversation.
You know, these types of thingsin the podcast is great and I
love it.
You know, I haven't been thisprofessionally fulfilled in a
long time, but I miss thatinterpersonal interaction and
it's just like you said, it'sthat muscle that if you don't
use it, you lose or you becomestatic in those skills where
(26:10):
everybody else is getting betterat it, and it is something that
you know, again, from the youngprofessional's perspective.
What they have to understand isthe only way to get better at
these types of things is to goout and start doing them.
John (26:23):
Absolutely Humans by design are social animals.
So there's something within us.
Whether we're extroverted,whether we have introversion
preferences, it doesn't matter.
Tim (26:34):
We still have that social engine within us that needs to
be space and I would say all ofleadership really revolves
(26:56):
around communication and I did apresentation a couple weeks ago
where I threw out a stat thatyou know 92% of talent and HR
professionals value soft skillsjust as much or more than hard
skills and we're not reallyteaching soft skills anywhere in
(27:16):
our education system as they'regrowing up People from you know
.
Because we need leaders fromall walks of life, in every
business, every industry, everylittle aspect of life.
We need people who are leaders.
(27:36):
How do we get people with verylittle to no good communication
skills to be able to grow that,to actually turn into an
effective leader?
John (27:49):
It's flipping it on its head a little bit.
It's recognizing that the softskills are now hard skills.
Oh, I can learn, wow.
Okay, I can learn many hardskills now, either through
YouTube or through e-learning,digital learning I can learn the
hard skills and I can rep thehard skills.
Learning digitally I can learnthe hard skills and I can rep
(28:11):
with the hard skills.
The soft skills are the harderones to teach now because we
don't have the environments thatsupport those.
As we once did, prior to COVID,most people went to the office
five days a week, 40 hours aweek.
That community that you have atwork, like that, was a way that
people were able to exercisethose muscles.
Um, now that we're in a workfrom home hybrid, some back to
(28:33):
work, um, situations like it's,it's different, it's challenging
.
So how do we?
You know?
To your question, how do we nowbuild those things up?
One it takes individualownership.
It takes that that want to ofrecognizing.
If I want to grow in my career,if I want to be a leader, I do
have to practice these skills.
(28:53):
I do have to practicecommunication skills.
Part of it, part of it, startsin this.
This is things that I've workedwith, with, with leaders, is
don't be afraid to raise yourhand and ask so if there's a
project that you want to be on,if there's a team that you want
to learn more about, if there'sa meeting that you want to be in
, uh, if you want to grow likepeople aren't going to know that
(29:14):
until you open up your mouthand you share it.
So, like building up theconfidence to ask, hey, you know
, I want to learn more aboutthis.
Can I come to this meeting?
Um, you know, I have questions.
I was on this call.
I have questions.
You know, can I take you tolunch for 50?
Can I take you to lunch?
Can I get 15 minutes?
Can we go walk and get a coffee?
Um, you know, can we hop on azoom?
Any way that you can createopportunities to have the
(29:40):
one-on-one conversations right,that's a way to build that
muscle, um, and by doing that,you're going to stand out,
because there aren't people thatare doing that now.
There's a lot of people who arewaiting for opportunities to
come to them.
But the more proactive you areabout creating those
opportunities for thoseconversations, that's where
things, that's where the musclegets built.
(30:01):
That's also where trust getsbuilt with people who you're
trying to you know, get you know, to get on the radar, raise
your profile with whomever, andthat's where confidence grows,
because the more that you startto see that that works, the more
confident you are in doing it.
Tim (30:17):
Yeah, again, really, really good points, and I wish young
people could understand thepower of being curious, the
power of asking questions, thepower of going to somebody and
say, can we have, can I get 15minutes?
Let's go get coffee, like likecoffee.
You said that's you know,because I want to learn more.
(30:38):
That automatically elevatesthem from their peers.
That in and of itself, you'regoing to learn something,
especially if you, if you'recoming from it, from a place of
being curious, and you'rebringing value, you're not.
You're going to learn something, especially if you're coming
from a place of being curiousand you're bringing value,
you're not asking surface-levelquestions, you're asking
thoughtful questions and you'reshowing that you truly want to
(31:01):
learn and get better.
And then if you do a goodfollow-up piece after that, I
mean how much that actuallyelevates you and separates you
from from your peers.
I wish we, I wish they, youknow, I wish they would just
listen to us and and and and dothose types of things.
It would, it would be so muchbetter for them.
(31:22):
But, um, those things are sopowerful.
John (31:25):
Yeah, I mean, you know a personal, a personal thank you
goes, you know it's, it's, it'sso simple, but it goes just so
far.
Uh, especially today when, whenthose those things just don't
quite get done as frequently.
Um, I mean, I can't tell youthe last time I've gotten a
handwritten note, but whenever Iget one it's like I appreciate
it doesn't really matter whatthe note says, I appreciate that
(31:47):
someone took the time right,actually sit down and write
something, right.
Those are the things that makea difference.
Um, also, not being afraid toto say that you don't know what
you don't know.
Um, when it comes to impostersyndrome, that's one of the
things that people will get hungup on is if I say I don't know
what this means, then what'sthat going to say?
What are people going to think?
What message send?
(32:07):
But the reality is, if youdon't know, then the best way to
find out is to ask.
Like I, one reason why I wasterrible at sales was like fake
until you make it just doesn'twork.
Tim (32:18):
for me it doesn't work for me.
John (32:19):
Like I can't, you know, I can't fake it, that cause,
that's not authentic to who I am.
Like, if I don't know, I'm notgoing to try to act like that.
I do.
I'm going to find out.
I'm going to ask questions, I'mgoing to try to learn, um, and
people here's the other thingthat people don't know.
Most people want you to succeed.
Yes, they do.
Most people want you to succeedand they'll help to support
(32:41):
your success.
So, asking questions to help tobe successful, those are the
things that people will want tohear from you.
They don't want you to to tryto figure it out on your own all
the time, or flop or flail, um,you know they're.
They're not going to sabotageyou.
If you say, hey, can youexplain what this means to me?
Like, people want you tosucceed because success makes
(33:01):
everybody's life easier andbetter.
Tim (33:04):
Yes, yes, that's uh, I, you know, I think that is that's
something would probably be myone of my top things to get
across to to people.
Um, let's put it this way, Idon't know anybody that would
hire somebody in hopes that theyfail.
It doesn't make any sense,right?
(33:27):
Um, right, I don't know of ofany professional that is that
that hopes other other peoplethat hope other people fail.
I just don't.
And if you do know those people, then those aren't the people
that you want to be aroundanyway exactly, and maybe that's
why I I don't know any of thosepeople, but you know it's.
(33:48):
It's that that also, I think,comes back to that, that whole
inner, inner dialogue, that thatthat we have sometimes, and
just get get over that.
People want to help, that's,that's just it.
Nobody wants you to fail, it'sjust it just doesn't make any
sense when you, when you thinkabout it from from a logical
(34:10):
perspective.
John (34:10):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's counterintuitive for people to
put you in a position thatyou're not going to succeed in
(34:37):
tactical, transactional piecesthat they are actually leading.
The better that you are atteaching and delegating, the
better your job and the easieryour job becomes, because then
you, you, you aren't working andinterning at the same company
at the same time.
Right, and a lot of leaderswill do that is, they'll be so
invested in the actual work,work, work of things that
they're not strategizing andthey're not being visionary is
where and that's where we needleaders to be Like.
(35:00):
I don't need a leader tohandhold me through the work
Once they've showed me how to doit.
What I need a leader to do isput me in a position to succeed,
support my success and help usmove to the next level.
Right, um, so it's.
It's that was listened to apodcast yesterday John Maxwell
podcast.
(35:20):
That was one of the things thatthat that he was talking about
is that, you know, leadersshouldn't be delegating work and
tasks.
They should be delegatingauthority, which is don't let me
, like, sit here and do the workwith you or tell you the
step-by-step of what I want youto do.
I want to tell you the outcome,I want to tell you the desired
(35:40):
result, I want you to figure outyour path, and when you get
stuck, that's where you I'mgoing to step in and help.
Tim (35:47):
You know that, again, really good points John Max was,
I don't say it, but I mean he's.
He's phenomenal.
I love what he says and what hedoes.
How much do you do you thinkthat what you just talked about
comes from a lack of a lack oftraining?
Because you know, as as I, as Ilook at it, when when people
(36:08):
get promoted, they get numberone, they they get promoted
because they're good at whatthey do right, they're good at
the task that they're doing ortasks that they're doing.
They get promoted intomanagement and don't have
management skills and they getcaught into that trap that you
just talked about.
And then they get promotedbecause, again, there's a
difference between managementand leadership.
And then they get promoted intoleadership and they've never
(36:30):
really developed the managementskills.
So now, as a leader, they'reback to doing exactly what you
just said.
John (36:44):
It happens far more frequently than the opposite.
Yeah, most organizations don'thave a robust leadership
development strategy, and whenleadership development
strategies look like is I'mgoing to work on the leaders
being more transformationalminded, being more strategic,
being more visionary, being morefocused on the people than the
(37:06):
work itself.
Because when you're anindividual contributor, maybe
even when you're a frontlinemanager, that's your thing.
It's like you are doing thework and that's where you shine
and that's where you willpotentially get promoted.
But then, when you get promoted, a lot of times there's not
that training that helps peopletake that next step right and
shift.
That's why people get stuck ineither middle management roles
(37:30):
or.
We hear so much, you know,feedback and noise in the world
about bad leaders andorganizations that struggle
because they don't have goodleaders.
Um, you know, leaders whoaren't accountable, leaders who
who don't listen, leaders thatthat they don't trust.
We hear so much of that andit's it's always weird.
It's like so they got to thatposition because they were
terrible.
No, no, they got to thatposition because they were
(37:51):
really good at something right.
That something isn't whatthey're needing to be doing
right now, but they don't.
They haven't gotten the thelevels of support and
development.
Uh, to succeed in that role theway that they should.
Tim (38:05):
Right, you know I almost think that that that that
training and development shouldhappen before they're promoted.
Right, absolutely, as you know.
So you know, when you're inyour frontline position, you
know there's a managementleadership track If this is what
you want to do.
You know these are the classes,this is the training that we
offer.
You know we'll send you to thisschool, whatever it is.
(38:26):
You know, and I think you know,it's so much more cost
effective to do that than tohave to hire somebody or have to
clean up messes or or spend abunch of time and energy later.
You know, do it on the frontend.
That makes it's providingbenefit to the employee, which
(38:51):
is when the back end is going tohelp the organization.
It's.
It shows that the employee,that you care about them and
their development, which isgoing to help the organization.
It shows the employee that youcare about them and their
development, which is going tomake them, you know, buy more
into the process and into theorganization.
It's a much better way ofprogressing.
I think and you know it's goodfor me to say that out here,
(39:14):
where I'm not in those spaces,but you know to me it's much
more cost-effective andbeneficial doing it that way
than the current model.
Let's just put it that way.
John (39:31):
Yeah, $25,000 pool of money.
Do you want to invest that$25,000 in the future of your
organization by doing someleadership training, doing some
management training, doing somecoaching?
Or do you want to spend thatmoney on an outside recruiter
and advertising for job you knowjob openings and things like
(39:54):
that Because people keep leavingyour organization?
Right, right, it's the samepool of money.
It's just you want to invest itor you want to spend it.
Investment you're going to geta return If you spend it you
might not, right.
Tim (40:10):
I read a stat recently that it costs $5,000 to $7,000 to
hire a new employee, right, andif you know, depending on the
size of your company, at five,$7,000 is one for one person.
It's a lot of money.
And if you're a biggerorganization, bigger corporation
, and you're doing that, ifyou're hiring somebody every
(40:31):
week, which we know someorganizations are, that's I mean
how much money are you wasting?
Are you losing there?
John (40:40):
That adds up.
Tim (40:41):
It really does.
John (40:43):
And at higher levels in the organization.
You know if it's leaders thatyou're replacing.
The higher up in theorganization someone is, the
higher the cost is.
There's another stat that it cantake up to 1.3, over the span
of a year 1.3 times the salaryof somebody who leaves.
To replace them, hire them,train that person and set them
(41:05):
up to to to meet the level ofwhere the person was when they
left.
So it's not so that that 1.3,you know times investment isn't
that you're getting someonewho's at that 1.3 level of
advancement.
You're spending that much justto get back to where you were on
the day that person left, andthat's just money.
(41:26):
Think about time and everythingelse.
So, yeah, it makes so much moresense to invest and for
individuals, if you have theaspirations to grow, invest.
Invest in yourself now, and itdoesn't have to be money, like
listen to podcasts aboutleadership um you know follow.
follow the right people on on um, on YouTube and LinkedIn.
(41:46):
You're not saying who thoseright people are, cause it's
different for everybody, butlike find your thought leaders
that resonate with you and thenstart to implement the things
that you learn and whatever rolethat you're in today.
Tim (41:58):
Exactly, and I just want to make this point too.
You don't have to go get an MBAeither, because I mean, that's
that seems to be, you know, witha lot of young people.
Well, I'm just going to go getan MBA, maybe you do, maybe you
don't.
Again, I'm not saying one wayor the other, but a lot of times
that's not the answer, becauseyou don't need to spend all that
(42:22):
money on yourself.
Maybe a corporation ororganization will do it for you
if you're in the right position.
Or maybe you don't even needthose skills right now, and
that's something that can beadded later.
There's so many moreopportunities out there for
learning and developmenttraining than spending thousands
upon thousands of dollars toget an MBA.
(42:44):
And that's coming from a collegeprofessor and I just I mean,
I'm just open and honest aboutit A lot of times we spend money
on college degrees which wehave no need to begin a college
degree.
John (42:58):
Right, yeah, I mean, I come from a family of educators.
My mom taught elementary schoolfor 35 years, my dad was an
assistant principal and aprincipal for about the same
amount of time, and both of themhave graduate degrees.
My sister had a graduate degree, I have a bachelor's.
I've never had anybody ask meabout my credentials.
(43:19):
They see the work that I do.
They hear the things that Ishare.
They see the value in thosethings.
That's what matters.
That's what matters.
I'm like you.
I'm like I'm not going to sayone way or the other, right or
wrong, do or don't.
Most of the time, people don'tcare about alphabet soup.
They don't.
(43:39):
They care about results.
How can you help me?
Tim (43:43):
Exactly, Exactly.
And one more thing you can'treally help them if you're
worried about you know, payingback thousands of dollars,
student loans, because that'swhere your mind is and you're
more worried about the.
Again, I'm not saying thatmoney isn't important, but
you're worried about the moneyand not some other things that
(44:05):
are important, but again I'llleave that there.
What are some in terms ofleadership and communication?
You know, because again wethink that leaders there's a
perception out there thatleaders have it all under
control, but what are some ofthe internal barriers that they
(44:26):
have in terms of communication?
John (44:30):
Yeah, the number one thing that I find with leaders as a
barrier is they don't understandhow to build trust.
Tim (44:36):
Oh yeah.
John (44:37):
Trust is the foundational thing that leaders need to build
Understanding how you buildtrust with people, how you learn
to trust people, what'simportant for you when you're
connecting with someone in orderfor you to start to trust them,
and also understanding whatthey need from you in order for
them to start trusting you.
Also understanding what theyneed from you in order for them
(44:57):
to start trusting you.
If you don't solve that trustequation, it makes everything
much harder and, from acommunication standpoint, once
you have trust, then you cancommunicate at a much deeper
level, because it removes thebarriers and the fear of if I
say something, it's going to betaken a different way, right?
(45:21):
So if, if I trust you, tim, andwe have spent the time to build
trust and rapport, like I cantell you something and I can
tell it to you in a way that Iexpect that it's going to land
with you, and even if it lands alittle bit differently or if it
lands off of what I thought itmight, if we have a trusting
relationship, then you're goingto.
You're going to recognize thatmy intent was good, right?
(45:44):
Maybe my delivery was bad,right.
If we don't have trust and ifwe haven't spent any time
building trust.
I'm going to hear everythingthrough my lens and interpret it
through how I feel.
You are saying somethingbecause I don't know any better.
Right, right, and that can begood, that can be bad, like
someone could.
You could get a compliment fromsomeone and you may think that
(46:06):
it's the best thing in the world, and they may just have been
saying something kind of off thecuff, like if you don't, if you
don't really understand whereit's coming from, then it's
really hard to truly understandsomeone.
It makes it much harder tocommunicate.
So building trust is thefoundational piece for leaders
when it comes to communication.
Tim (46:24):
Yeah, trust is so hard to build but so easy to lose and
you know, it's something that Ithink people really need to
think about as they go through,make decisions.
Communicate with people, howthey interact and how they make
(46:50):
those decisions is reallyimportant, which, to me, is also
something that builds trust isreally important, which, to me,
is also something that buildstrust.
I mean, if you make decisionsbehind closed doors and don't
give any type of context,especially some hard decisions,
trust is gone.
John (47:07):
I mean it's just gone.
Tim (47:08):
Again, it doesn't mean you have to go the other way.
You don't have to giveeverybody all the information
either, but there needs to besome open, honest communication,
some transparency, some sittingdown and both sides being
willing to have the hardconversations and understand
it's business it's not personalRight and be able to approach
(47:29):
from that perspective.
So trust, you're right, trustis really paramount.
John (47:39):
Yeah, trust, your trust is is really paramount.
Yeah, you know, you mentionedthe word transparency super
important.
Vulnerability, equally asimportant.
You know?
Uh, just a quick cheat sheetfor for you and your listeners
on trust.
Like people will build trustgenerally two ways.
They'll either build trustthrough wanting to, you know,
build a relationship withsomeone, and then that's how I'm
going to learn about trustingthem.
Uh, do I want to learn moreabout this person, I want to
(48:00):
invest in that relationship, ordo I need to see evidence of
work over time?
Do I need to see evidence ofcredibility over time before
I'll start to trust someone?
So that's the first questionthat people need to ask
themselves is like when I meetsomeone, what am I looking for
from that person?
That people need to askthemselves is like when I meet
someone, what am I looking forfrom that person?
Am I looking for a personalconnection or am I looking to to
(48:20):
kind of evaluate them, uh, andsee, do they bring value, do
they bring credibility?
Neither one of them is right orwrong.
It's just a process that we useto build trust.
When you can start tounderstand that about yourself,
then you can start to buildtrust with people quicker,
because you know what you'relooking for exactly and then you
can start to ask thosequestions of people too, right
when it comes to you know, kindof feeding or feeling out where
(48:43):
their trust uh, where theirtrust levers are and the things
that they use to build trust.
So, like using that cheat sheet, using that that process can
really streamline building trustwith people quickly.
Tim (48:54):
Yeah, it's so true, but again you said it you got to
know who you are first and howyou build that trust, or what's
important to you in buildingtrust and what your process is
which is you know we can.
We can go down that rabbit holeand talk for hours on that too.
So Absolutely.
But, john, this has been reallygood stuff.
(49:15):
Where can people find you ifthey want to work with you?
John (49:19):
Yeah, so people can uh go to my website, um,
wwwthewinnersedgecoachingcom.
Uh, the place that I'm reallyprobably the most present and
active is on LinkedIn.
Um, so linkedincom slash inslash, big John little, is where
people can find me on LinkedIn.
That's where I typically willspend, that's kind of my social
(49:40):
platform of choice and that'swhere I engage with most folks
on there.
Tim (49:45):
And John, I'll tell you and I'll tell the listeners too.
You got to follow John.
He puts out some really reallygood information.
It's timely, it's actionable,it's on point information.
It's timely, it's actionable,it's on point.
Now I'm not saying others onLinkedIn, don't do that.
But John, you do a really,really good job of that and so
hopefully listeners will startfollowing you there, but again.
(50:09):
John, thank you so much forspending some time with us today
.
I love what you're saying.
I think that our audience isgoing to get a lot of good,
actionable advice out of thisand some things to think about
whether it's getting rid of thatvoice in our head, being
confident enough to take thatnext step, just to start doing
(50:29):
the thing, whatever it is, andjust lean into who you are.
John (50:34):
Yeah, Thank you, Tim.
I really appreciate thisopportunity.
Talking about leadership andtalking about confidence and all
I mean.
These things are myprofessional love language, so
anytime I get a chance to shareit, I'm really grateful.
So thank you for thisopportunity.
Tim (50:48):
All right, my friend, you take care and we'll talk to you
soon.
John (50:51):
Sounds good, you too.
Tim (50:53):
Be sure to visit speakingwithconfidencepodcastcom
to get your free ebook Top 200Challenges for Public Speakers
and how to Overcome them.
You can also register for theFormula for Public Speaking.
Always remember your voice hasthe power to change the world.
We'll talk to you next time,take care.
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