Why lifestyle wins over quick fixes in perimenopause and weight loss — with Dr. Patricia McLelland

Feeling lost between hot takes on hormones and the latest weight-loss shots? We brought in Dr. Patricia McLellan, Vanderbilt-trained, Emory-residency, 27+ years in women’s health, to cut through the noise with a calm, practical roadmap. 

We unpack the six-prong framework she leans on: diet, exercise, sleep, stress management, appropriate supplements, and medical interventions used in the right order.

The conversation gets practical fast: protein targets spread through the day, heavy-low-rep training for women, circadian-aware sleep that starts before your second wind, and simple ways to reduce plastic contact and ingredient overload without living at three different grocery stores. 

If you’re tired of shortcuts that backfire and want a plan you can live with, this episode offers a clear path: relieve what’s urgent, rebuild what’s missing, and refine as you go.

Follow us, share with a friend who needs a sanity check on hormones or weight meds, and leave a comment with the one change you’ll start this week.

For more information, visit our website www.spectruss.com

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_03 (00:00):
What's interesting is the first thing they did is
they held a press conference andsaid hormone replacement therapy
is going to cause heart disease,breast cancer, and strokes and
blood clots.
You alluded to the fact that Iwas sick when I was a kid.
When I was 16 years old, I wasin Africa and had malaria and
typhoid fever and was very ill.

(00:21):
Um I dropped down to about 110pounds, which 5'11, 110 pounds
doesn't sound good.
Um it took me a long time torecover.

SPEAKER_00 (00:30):
Do you see that impacting?
I mean, people come in andthey're demanding certain
pharmaceuticals because they'veseen it on TikTok or somewhere
like that, and then having totell them more about the
lifestyle piece.
I mean, how does that somethingyou deal with on day-to-day or
see quite often?

SPEAKER_03 (00:45):
So is it that people listen to the loudest without
looking at credentials or um orlooking or thinking through this
with critical thinking skills?
Um, if I'm making a ton of moneyon my supplements that I'm
giving you, should you ask memore than just automatically

(01:08):
listening to me?

SPEAKER_00 (01:14):
Dr.
Patricia McClellan, thanks forjoining us today.
Thank you.
Um I'll be honest, this is themost nervous I've been about a
podcast.
And whenever we were talking,and um and then Matt followed up
again and was like, hey, I thinkit'd be, you know, you should
have my wife on the podcast andtalk about women's health.
Um and I'll be honest, I'm like,what the hell do I know about
women's health?

(01:34):
Where did I even start?
You know, but obviously you knowabout women's health, but I was
trying to learn about thequestions and things to ask.
I even asked like Chat GPT, butit gave me all these like very
just none of them really hithome.
But then I read your bio on thewebsite, and it was really well
done because like it gave me abunch of information about you,
got to know you, and there are afew things that stood out.
Um like talked about earlier,we're talking about how you got

(01:57):
sick apparently as a kid.
So I'm curious to hear aboutthat.
And then kind of your um what'sthe word for how you like to
treat, I guess, and and some ofthe ways you the holistic
approach.
Um so those things really got meinterested.
I'm like, all right, I think Ican do this.
Um before this, I got even moreinterested.
So I don't know, where do youwant to start?

SPEAKER_03 (02:18):
Well, um we can start out where what started me
on this path.
Um you alluded to the fact thatI was sick when I was a kid.
When I was 16 years old, I wasin Africa and had malaria and
typhoid fever and was very ill.
Um, I dropped down to about 110pounds, which 5'11, 110 pounds

(02:40):
doesn't sound good.

SPEAKER_01 (02:41):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (02:41):
Um it took me a long time to recover.
And before that, my focus wasplaying basketball.
I had this dream of playing umon the Atlanta Hawks with
Dominique Wilkins and Spud Webb.
I would be the first woman.

SPEAKER_01 (02:56):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (02:56):
Obviously, that was a little bit of a pipe dream,
but basketball was my focus.
But after that, I realized acouple things.
Number one, the absoluteimportance of health.
Um, the other thing that Ilearned was I was basically
alone and I didn't really havesupport.

(03:17):
Um, there was this lovely priestand his wife who came to visit
me every day.
Um, but other than that, therewas very minimal support.
Um, so it really gave me thepassion on helping people, and I
understood what it felt like tobe really sick and essentially
being alone.
Um, so those were two very bigthings.

(03:40):
And my my my desire and what myand my passion for what I wanted
to do really got became laserfocused.
Um and so that's when I decidedI wanted to go into medicine.
Um and I also realized, for goodor for bad, I was on my own.
If I wanted to accomplish this,it was Trisha accomplishing

(04:01):
this.
And um there's definitely prosand cons to that, but um that
became my laser focus.

SPEAKER_00 (04:10):
What was so malaria and what was other people?

SPEAKER_03 (04:13):
Typhoid fever.

SPEAKER_00 (04:14):
What was that like?
I mean, how long did that last?

SPEAKER_03 (04:17):
Um I was in the hospital twice.
And um one of the times I had areally high fever for several
days, and um now you I I knewwhat it meant to hallucinate
when you see things that aren'tthere and and stuff like that.
Um so um it was not it was not agood experience.

SPEAKER_00 (04:39):
Yeah, I bet not how did you get to Africa?

SPEAKER_03 (04:41):
Just a trip to the Well, I went with my dad.
He did a missions trip.
Um and he took he was a uh hetook students to go and I went
on one of them.

SPEAKER_00 (04:52):
Gotcha.
So did you get all your like getbetter in Africa or did you fly
back and then get better in theStates?

SPEAKER_03 (04:58):
No, I I I got better there.
Um, but it took me quite a whileto build up my strength.
Um, at least for I was stillplaying basketball, but it
probably took me six months to ayear.
No way um to get back to how Ifelt before.
So now I was never that great.

(05:19):
Okay.
Basketball or I wasn't as goodas I wish I was.
Oh so it implies that I was likesome high-level athlete.
Yeah.
Um, but I never quite got backto where I was before with the
strength and stamina.

SPEAKER_00 (05:33):
Wow.
I mean it kills a lot of peoplethough, right?
I mean malaria, like Oh, it can.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (05:38):
It can.

SPEAKER_00 (05:38):
So then you came back and I saw you did a a
stint, you went to Oregon for awhile.

SPEAKER_03 (05:43):
Correct.
So I went to Vanderbilt forundergrad in medical school.
Um, and then I went to Emery forresidency, and then I went to
Portland, Oregon.
And that was there were severalamazing parts about my time in
Portland.
One of them is I joined a groupthat had a true mentorship
program, um, which was amazing.

(06:05):
And you don't really see that,at least at that time, you just
didn't see that level ofmentorship.
Um, and so that was amazing.
The other really wonderful partabout being in Portland during
that period of time waslifestyle, healthy lifestyles
were very important and werejust part of people's lives.

(06:28):
And so um people were committedto eating local, people were
committed to eating organic,people were committed to moving,
um, and it was just part oflife.
Yeah.
And I saw after moving from theSouth out to Portland, the
incredible impact on women'shealth issues when you address

(06:51):
lifestyle.
Um, the other thing that wasgreat about that is there was um
a natural well-known naturopathwho was in Portland who kind of
set the stage of quality uh fornaturopaths who also worked um
collaboratively with physicians.

(07:13):
And so you had a very goodrelationship.
I only met her once or twice,um, but her impact was pretty
amazing.
And so that also was veryhelpful because one of the
things that frustrated me waswhen I'm looking at women's
health and all I have ismedications.
I could see I'm not helpingpeople the way I want to help

(07:36):
them.
Um not as many people aregetting better or feeling better
or thriving as I would like tosee.
And um, I listened to a podcastwhere there was a physician who
said years ago, 90% of healthissues we dealt with were things

(07:57):
outside of our control, like yougot run over by a bus, you got,
you know, you got cancer orsomething like this.
Now, and I'm not sure I totallyagree with this, but he said 80
to 90 percent of the healthissues we deal with are based in
lifestyle.
So I would say maybe 80 percent.

(08:18):
Um, but bottom line isespecially in women's health,
there is a huge component oflifestyle.
And what that means is if I'mgonna help you and really help
you, um I need to attend tothat.

SPEAKER_00 (08:32):
Yeah.
Isn't it interesting?
I don't know if you'veexperienced this, but talking
about going to Oregon andPortland and having that person
there that you're referencingand more active lifestyle, it
sounds like.
And I remember back when I wasracing bicycles as a kid and up
in my twenties, I looked atmoving, almost moved to Bend,
Oregon, and then Durango,Colorado.
Those are two at the top of mylist just because they're

(08:53):
beautiful places.
Oh, they're gorgeous.
Mountain biking is amazing,skiing, everything's great.
But how much more outdoorsyeveryone is there, and you tend
to find more of that holisticapproach to healing in all kinds
of ways, you know.
And I think health overall ishigher.
I love Chattanooga.
Now we have to wait outdoorshere too, but there is like a
different lifestyle here thatseems to hire obesity rate, hire

(09:17):
everything.
Drinking.

SPEAKER_03 (09:18):
Well, it's a totally different lifestyle.
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
A totally different lifestyle.
And you know, what's even funnyis I remember I haven't been
back to Portland proper for awhile.
I've go back and I visit friendsaround Portland, but like I
don't go to the grocery storesand stuff.
So, but I remember um even inthe big grocery store like Fred
Meyer, which would be kind oflike Walmart here, um, you have

(09:42):
all the vegetables and you havea lot of local vegetables, you
have a lot of organic, and Idon't remember things being
wrapped in pro plastic.
And then when I move here, Ihave this idea of I'd like to
not have my produce wrapped inplastic.

SPEAKER_01 (09:59):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (09:59):
And um that's really challenging uh to just not get
your produce wrapped in plastic,um, especially after COVID.
Um that's gotten a lot worse.
Um, but because the demand wasthere, then these grocery stores
would have a lot of localproduce.

(10:22):
Um the demand was there.
Yeah.
Um so it was it was reallyfascinating what I took for
granted.
And then coming back, I took forgranted that when people said
they wanted a uh to look at alifestyle approach, they're
different their definitions weredifferent.

SPEAKER_00 (10:40):
Yeah, I bet so.

SPEAKER_03 (10:41):
It's a very different, it's a different
definition.
So when I ask, when somebodyasks me, I would uh I'd like to
have a holistic approach or alifestyle approach, the it and
I'm making a generalization, butthat what's more common is what
they mean is they don't wantprescription meds, but they want
supplements.

(11:03):
Um my view of a holisticapproach, I kind of have a
six-prong view of that inlooking at diet, exercise,
sleep, stress management,appropriate use of supplements,
and then medical interventions,whatever that may be, if it's
medicines, if it's surgery,something.
So I kind of look at it in thosesix areas, and everybody is

(11:27):
going to thrive more if theylook at more than one area.
So if I'm not gonna put you on20 prescription meds, I'm also
probably not gonna put you on 20supplements.

SPEAKER_00 (11:39):
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (11:40):
I mean, it sounds reasonable.

SPEAKER_01 (11:41):
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (11:43):
Um, you know, when you look at study, medicines are
studied more than supplementsare.
And, you know, if you look at astudy, it's extremely rare for
somebody to study their medicineplus six others.

SPEAKER_00 (11:56):
Right.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (11:58):
Um, much less ten others.
So you're on 10 meds, what isthis gonna do?
Well, no.

SPEAKER_01 (12:05):
So true.

SPEAKER_03 (12:06):
I know what different individuals are sub
individual meds are supposed todo, but all of them together?
Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 (12:12):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (12:13):
Um and the the beautiful part about a lifestyle
approach is our bodies reallyare amazing.
And they are are incrediblyresilient.
And the and they're so complex.
And that's one of the wonderfulthings about being a doctor that
you should be jealous of is Iget to look inside somebody's

(12:36):
abdomen.
I mean, it is so cool, soamazing, so complex.
I've been doing this for 28years, almost 28 years.
And every time I feel awe whenI'm in the OR of look at this
amazing, complex, resilientbody.

(12:59):
And we will never fullyunderstand all the different
functions and how they are inharmony, but we do know that
food is what feeds our body.
How do we eat healthier?
Movement is valuable, um, sleepis when we restore.

(13:19):
Um we know that.
We just don't know what our bodyneeds at a specific point for
that.
Um so I love the idea of comingat it from a supportive approach
than always an interventiveapproach.

(13:39):
Um, like for example, you wantto give you an example?

SPEAKER_01 (13:41):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (13:42):
Okay.
So you are you probably aren'tever gonna be perimenopausal in
the way I'm speaking about this.
But if you were in your 40s andyou are female and you're
perimenopausal and your hormonesare fluctuating, every month can
be different.
So if I decide I want to giveyou like a hormone one month,
what you would need the nextmonth is likely to be different.

(14:05):
So you're we're never gettingyou at a good harmony that may
not last for, it may last, butmaybe not last that long.
But if I know that if I'msupportive with the, you know, a
judicious number of supplements,we look at your diet.
What is the best way for yourbody to heal during this phase?

(14:27):
And we do it that way,oftentimes I will see much
better results.
The problem is is that it takesmore work to do it that way.
Um does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 (14:40):
Yeah, it does.
So I have a question that's kindof related to this, but it's a
little bit of an offshoot.
But it just popped in my head.
Uh my mom and dad were quite abit older when they had me.
So she was 39 and he was 46, andof course it didn't really
affect him.
It didn't affect him at all.
But my mom almost died, like, Imean, sick as hell all

(15:00):
throughout the pregnancy, reallybad pregnancy, and she had a
bunch of miscarriages all theway up to I guess I was the most
stubborn one that finally took.
And when she had me, she woundup like um there's some
postnatal toxicity, something.
I don't know, that's not that'snot a something like that.
But she wound up nice to you andthey said she'd be dead next
morning, somehow survive.
Thank God, because she's a greatmom.

(15:21):
Better than I deserve.
But question me at 39, andluckily she was always pretty in
shape, not like athletic, but doyou see like someone that stays
in shape, stays fit?
Like, does menopause does thatwait longer?
Can they have kids later?
Are they at less risk for youknow having that's a very good
question.

SPEAKER_03 (15:41):
Um, we call advanced maternal age age 35, and it's
slightly arbitrary, but um, asyou get older, your risks get
higher, um, are higher fordiabetes, high blood pressure,
and that's probably based onwhat you just said, that might
have been her issue.
Um but there's an age-relatedelement of risk that even being

(16:04):
healthy does not eliminate.

SPEAKER_01 (16:06):
Okay.

SPEAKER_03 (16:07):
Okay, now, so that's with pregnancy.
Um with menopause, typically thehealthier you are looking at
diet, exercise, sleep, stressmanagement, a lot of women will
go through menopause moresmoothly, but it's not a hundred
percent.
So I would put myself in acategory of pretty healthy.

(16:29):
Um, and I went from feeling fineover a course of two weeks, I
was having hot flashes every 30minutes, um, waking up three or
four times a night with nightsweats, which leads to poor
sleep.
And very quickly that was nottolerable.

SPEAKER_01 (16:47):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (16:47):
Um and so that is so there's an element that um
lifestyle plays a huge role.
But that's why I look at thosesix categories: diet, exercise,
sleep, stress management,supplements, and medications.
And in this situation, I'mtalking about hormone
replacement therapy.
I mean, I went from feelingnormal to awful and then feeling

(17:09):
normal again.
Um, but I wasn't going to beexercising when I felt that bad.
I wasn't eating healthy when Ifeel that bad.

SPEAKER_01 (17:18):
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (17:18):
Um, so that's why I like to look at the whole
picture instead of just one.
Now, the flip side is I haveplenty of patients that if they
are looking at the lifestyleapproach and they're having a
lot of symptoms and they eat thestandard American diet, the
moment they reduce alcohol andcarbs and increase protein and

(17:40):
vegetables, they can reducetheir symptoms by 60, 70
percent.

SPEAKER_00 (17:46):
How many actually do that though?

SPEAKER_03 (17:49):
10 percent.

SPEAKER_00 (17:50):
So that six, the the six you're talking about, I
mean, how many you think you seethat rely on the last one on
medication versus the other fivethat might be.

SPEAKER_03 (18:00):
But see, it's part of your journey.
And I look at it as getting intoa stream.
If I'm if you're dipping yourtoe into the stream by me giving
you hormone replacement therapy,then that's what that's where
we'll start.
Um and then we get you feelingbetter.
Now let's address the diet, theexercise, sleep, stress

(18:21):
management.
Unfortunately, people aren'talways interested in doing that
part or making the change theconsistent changes.
So I would say 10 to 20 percentare going to really dig in.
Um maybe it's higher in certainareas, but it's not as high as

(18:46):
we would like.

SPEAKER_00 (18:47):
Aaron Powell Do you see it higher in other
countries, like other studiesyou've seen?

SPEAKER_03 (18:50):
Like isn't is America worse there or well I
think, you know, like when we'vebeen we've been in Europe a
couple times in the last coupleof years, we did uh Mont Blanc.
Um and you're eating, I mean,just the food is better.
Okay.
So you eat a piece of bread inItaly, there's probably four

(19:15):
ingredients in your bread.
Whereas here, I'm I have amedical background.
I majored in math and chemistry,and I look at the ingredient
list and I don't know 90 percentof what's in there.
Um if I don't know, then ourbody goes, huh, I don't know
what to do with that.
Um So I think that food andpeople move more, and food and

(19:40):
movement is so incredibly vitalfor just overall health.

SPEAKER_00 (19:46):
Yeah.
Do you think that and this isone theory I I don't know, it's
not a theory, but kind of likewith a uh now go with me here
for a second.
With like a car.
You know, sometimes cars runbetter when you get them hot,
especially like a diesel truck.
And when you get it the enginehot, everything's running hot,
and it's on the highway for along time, it runs better.
And it will even like consumekind of bad diesel fuel better

(20:07):
if it's hot.
It would just combust it.
But if it's cold, then itdoesn't like to run as as much.
I've often wondered if thattheory kind of applies to humans
in some way, with like thatcardiovascular health, you know,
having the engine almost hotter,do you think it helps I mean, of
course, more justcardiovascular, but even on like
digesting bad food, like movingthings through your system
quicker and getting it out.
Um I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 (20:28):
That that's so I I think our Well, I like that
because um our b our bodies arefar more resilient than a car.
So if you decide not to put gasin your car, um, or you decide
to put water in your car, uh andit's not gonna work.

SPEAKER_01 (20:46):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (20:46):
It's not gonna work right away.
And everything's gonna seize up.
But it's always amazing to methat you know these things are
cumulative.
So by the time a woman's enginestarts sputtering in their 40s
because the hormonal changes areoccurring, it's not just what's
happened that day or yesterdayor the day before.

(21:07):
It's a cumulation of what you'vebeen eating, what you've been,
your exercise, um, your guthealth, um, all of that
together.
And unfortunately, it doesn'thappen in a day, which means I
can't fix it in a day.
So it would be made, you know,it's probably good that if we

(21:29):
feed our bodies poor poorly,that we don't just end up in the
hospital the next day.
But you know, if we saw if wesaw that response as quickly in
our own bodies, would we be morethoughtful on a daily basis on
how we feed our bodies?

SPEAKER_01 (21:48):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (21:49):
Um so we're more resilient in good ways, but not
necessarily that can backfire.

SPEAKER_00 (21:56):
Right.
Gotcha.
So on the you know, one thingwe're talking about earlier, the
the pharmaceutical side, I'vedove in the rabbit hole on this
one, you know.
And some things it's always hardto tell between propaganda and
what's real and all that.
But it is interesting to me, mymarketing advertising
background, we're one of twocountries in the entire world
that can advertisedirect-to-consumer
pharmaceuticals.

(22:18):
Right.
Do you see that impacting peoplethat come in and they're
demanding certainpharmaceuticals because they've
seen it on TikTok or somewherelike that, and then having to
tell them more about thelifestyle piece.
I mean, is that something youdeal with on on day-to-day or
see quite often?

SPEAKER_03 (22:34):
Or Yes, I do.
I do.
Um it's interesting because yousee both sides of the coin.
So you see advertisement andyou're like, oh, I never want to
take that medication becausethey gave me, you know, 10 risks
with that medicine.
Right.
Um and then the next person islike, oh, I want that.

(22:54):
And you know, a big one rightnow is the is are the GLPs, um,
semaglutide, trzeptide, sothat's osempic, and um, so all
the weight loss medications.

SPEAKER_00 (23:05):
Um what are your thoughts on those?

SPEAKER_03 (23:08):
What are my thoughts?

SPEAKER_00 (23:09):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (23:09):
Um I think in context of a healthy lifestyle,
it can be very helpful.
Um so here's what's fascinatingabout those meds is there's
they're doing a lot more thanjust helping somebody lose
weight, but they're also we'reseeing a reduction of
inflammation.
Um so people who have arthritisare gonna feel better if they

(23:31):
lose weight, but it also seemsto reduce that.
There's impact on liver.
So I think it's reallyfascinating, all the things that
it can impact.
The downside is that people arelooking at this as lifelong
medications.
Is is people, the expectation ispeople are not going to maintain

(23:52):
the healthy lifestyle to be ableto get off those medications.

SPEAKER_00 (23:58):
Gotcha.
I heard there are therecomplications coming off of
them, anyways.

SPEAKER_03 (24:02):
Is it well?
So here's the here's aninteresting thing.
If we want to just look at theweight loss, okay.
So if you are on a umsemaglutide or terzepitide, in
some people you can lose onepound of muscle to three pounds
of fat that you lose.

SPEAKER_01 (24:20):
Okay.

SPEAKER_03 (24:21):
Okay.
That is a substantial impact onyour metabolism.
So for example, you want to lose20 pounds.
You lose 20 pounds with Ozempic,there's a chance you've lost
five pounds of muscle and 15pounds of fat.
So at that lower weight, yourmetabolism is slower.
So you are more likely to gainweight more quickly.

(24:44):
Now, and I see that, Idefinitely see that.
When somebody goes off thesemedications, they regain very
quickly, faster than what youwould expect.
The problem is if you gain 20pounds quickly, you're not
gaining five pounds of muscleand 15 pounds of fat.
You are gaining 20 pounds offat.

SPEAKER_01 (25:02):
Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_03 (25:03):
And so you're going back up to your baseline weight
with a lower metabolism, andthere's a very good chance that
a lot of that fat is morevisceral fat, which is what's
inside your abdominal cavityassociated with more
inflammation, higher heartdisease risks.
Wow.

(25:23):
So what's fascinating to me is Itell people this.
So I'm fine giving it in contextof lifestyle.
Um, but on average, at least inmy experience, when I tell
people to maintain muscle massand I give them a number for
protein, look at your diet, do afood diary at least for a couple
days, see what you're gettingprotein.

(25:45):
You need X amount to maintain,you need X amount to build
muscle.
And in women, it's been shownthat HIT and high weight, low
rep strength training is moreeffective, especially in our age
group.
Um probably about 10% of peoplewill include that.

(26:07):
Um they lose weight withmedications, they're not really
changing their diet.
They're just eating less of whatthey've been eating.
And what we don't know is uhwhat we do know is that they're
that they are nutrientdeficient.
So the macro and themicronutrients, they're

(26:28):
deficient.
And then how does that play arole in the weight gain?
I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 (26:34):
So if they lose 20 pounds and five pounds is muscle
and 15 is fat, is there a way tokeep from losing that five
pounds?

SPEAKER_03 (26:42):
Like if they are high protein, they're doing high
protein, the HIT, the strengthtraining in that manner.
That's been, you know, there'snot a lot of studies in women on
exercise, muscle mass, and weneed more of these studies.
Um but what we do have, it doesseem, you know, we do have some
pretty good guidelines on umprotein intake.

(27:03):
Um and I will, I'm gonna give ashout out to my kid.
Uh my husband and my kid helpedme with a menopause talk.
Um I created all the slides andthen my 19-year-old boy made
them presentable.

SPEAKER_01 (27:16):
Nice.

SPEAKER_03 (27:17):
And the best thing was he added a um he added a
meme on every slide that washilarious.
But he disagreed with my proteinrecommendations.
He looked it up, and he wasright.

SPEAKER_00 (27:32):
One gram of protein for body weight?

SPEAKER_03 (27:34):
So to maintain it would be one gram per kilogram
body weight per day.
To build it's one gram per poundper day.
And another thing that he said Iwas wrong on, and I was, um,
that you could only absorb 25 to35 grams of protein at a

(27:55):
sitting.
Where what it is, is youprobably absorb most of the
protein you're taking in, butonly about 25 to 35 grams is
actually being used to buildmuscle.

SPEAKER_01 (28:09):
Okay.

SPEAKER_03 (28:10):
So if you if I told you to eat 140 grams of protein
a day and you did it all forbreakfast, you're not
accomplishing what you want toaccomplish.

SPEAKER_00 (28:20):
Gotcha.
So you gotta spread it out.

SPEAKER_03 (28:22):
Yeah, you gotta spread it out.
So he kept me in line.
It was great.
It was great.

SPEAKER_00 (28:29):
Um so with these, you know, semi-glucide, for
example, like do if they keeptaking it, do they just keep
burning more fat, or do theyfinally at a certain dosage they
hit like the max amount they'regonna burn?
Like, how does that work?
Or do you come off of it for awhile to keep from just eating
everything?

SPEAKER_03 (28:45):
That's a great question.
Um, because it has multipleeffects.
What I typically see is that umwomen will plateau on their
weight loss.
And so you start them on asubtherapeutic dose, meaning you
start them on a dose that's notgonna work, but to minimize side
effects, because there's a lotof side effects.
The main ones are GI, nausea,vomiting, constipation,

(29:08):
diarrhea.
Um, the constipation can behorrific for people.
Um but there's a lot of sideeffects.
And so you start off slowly andyou build um, but you don't
change the dose or you changethe dose every four weeks, and
it's a once-a-week shot.

SPEAKER_01 (29:25):
Okay.

SPEAKER_03 (29:25):
Um, so it could take somebody two to three months to
get to the point where they'relosing weight.
But most women, in myexperience, will eventually
continue to have to go up ontheir dose to maintain their
weight loss.
Um and now it's, you know, ifsomebody needs to lose 100

(29:49):
pounds, um, that makes totalsense.
But I even see it in people whoare losing, you know, 20 pounds
that one dose doesn't do it andwe have to.
Increase it.
I have guesses why, but I don'tI don't know for sure.

SPEAKER_00 (30:05):
Yeah.
Yeah, I didn't know it waseating so much muscle.
When I just remember I waslistening to a podcast and
they're talking about a UFCfighter that was always a bigger
fighter, and he got on one ofthose and how much more ripped
and leane he was.
But if it's eating muscle at thesame time, you know, because
that's going to lower yourtestosterone too.
Correct.
You know, if you're burningmuscle.

(30:26):
So I don't know.
You think he's probably on TRTor something to keep his
testosterone high, or I mean,what would that do?

SPEAKER_03 (30:31):
That's you're out of my realm there.

SPEAKER_00 (30:35):
Sorry.

SPEAKER_03 (30:38):
But um there I mean there is some evidence that if
you are maintaining the proteinand you are exercising, then you
are um doing a better jobmaintaining that muscle mass.

SPEAKER_00 (30:51):
Gotcha.

SPEAKER_03 (30:52):
Um so and I think um I have been able to help people
get off and wean off of it.
Um, but then the trendunfortunately is slow weight
gain again.
Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 (31:06):
Now I know it's over 20 years you've been practicing
now.
How many is it total?

SPEAKER_03 (31:11):
20 over 27.
Okay.
I said 28 earlier, but I roundedup a hair.
Only a hair.

SPEAKER_00 (31:20):
Well we'll forgive you for that.
It's no big deal.
Uh so over, you know, 27 plusyears, um guys started bringing
up hormone therapy and that sortof thing.
I mean, have you seen a lot ofthings change in 27 plus years,
like whether it's hormones or Imean anything to the market
that's changed, pharmaceuticals,like what have been some of the
big changes that have happened?

SPEAKER_03 (31:40):
Um that's a that's a great question.
Um, the longer you're around,you see fads change and you see
things swing in um and what'sinteresting is back in 2002, and
I'll try to not get too far inthe weeds on hormones for you,

(32:01):
but um in 2002, the Women'sHealth Initiative came out with
a very big study on hormonereplacement therapy,
specifically Premarin andPrevera.
And what's interesting is thefirst thing they did is they
held a press conference and saidhormone replacement therapy is
gonna cause heart disease,breast cancer, and strokes and

(32:21):
blood clots.
Okay.
We, as providers, did not havethe study to refute this or to
say, whoa.
And um, and so everybody freaksout, as we all did, because
like, oh my goodness, what arewe doing to people?
And um I would I was living inPortland at the time, and

(32:46):
eventually the study came out,and I reviewed the study, and I
was like, that's not what thestudy says.
So I called this doctor, hisname is Dr.
Leon Spiroff.
He was living in Portland, buthe was world guru on anything
female endocrine.
And I called him, I said, I gotslated, I got tagged to do this

(33:09):
talk on this.
And what they're saying is notwhat's in it.
And he goes, I know.
And so he helped me with mylecture.
Um, and it was like a publicforum.
He helped me with my lecture,and I asked him, I said, Okay,
this misinformation, how long isit gonna take before we reset

(33:32):
and put this misinformation incontext?
So guess what he said?
You guess.

SPEAKER_00 (33:38):
I have to guess.

SPEAKER_03 (33:39):
You have to guess.

SPEAKER_00 (33:40):
Uh I don't know.
Maybe first thing I think of isthe sugar industry buying off
the FDA back in the 60s.
So I don't know, forever?

SPEAKER_03 (33:50):
20 years.

SPEAKER_00 (33:51):
20 years.

SPEAKER_03 (33:52):
Okay.
So for the last up until aboutfive years ago, has that
misinformation put into its kindof perspective.
Um but the interesting thing iswe flipped full circle to now
the messaging is everybodyshould be on hormones instead of

(34:17):
a judicious approach.
So we went from fear to theopposite end that everybody
should be on it.
Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_00 (34:27):
So of course my conspiracy skeptical mind first
now goes to who was it then thatwho did it behoove to put that
out there that it was leading toWell, it was the scientists,
right?

SPEAKER_03 (34:38):
And it was for their gain to come out with this
landmark study that everybodylistened to.
Um now what we and you know, Ithink I'm not going to get into
anything, but I would also saythat COVID and everything with
COVID really gave a big hit onthe science community.
Um and used to, if I said, I'm adoctor trained at Vanderbilt,

(35:03):
you know, did my residency atEmory, people give me the
opportunity to like, oh, she mayknow something.

SPEAKER_00 (35:11):
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (35:12):
I might listen.
I might know, I mean, you know,I may not agree, but huh, she'll
have some information that mightbe helpful.
And that has definitely changed.
So what's so fascinating is um Ithink we're in a phase now where
um people get more of theirinformation from social media,

(35:35):
and the experts are the peoplethat are really good at
self-marketing.

SPEAKER_02 (35:41):
Right, right.

SPEAKER_03 (35:43):
Um and you know, when I think about marketing,
it's like I remember I don'tremember any physician group
market.
Okay.
When I came back to Chattanooga,there were a number of people
who marketed on billboards andstuff like that.
And um that fascinated me.

(36:03):
I was like, you know, in acommunity this size, why would
you need a billboard?

SPEAKER_01 (36:09):
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (36:10):
Because everybody I know that's good is busy.

SPEAKER_01 (36:13):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (36:13):
Because of word of mouth.
Um, fast forward to now, youhave people who are on TikTok
who have, you know, billboards.
We had my group, Galen MedicalGroup, did a big marketing um
push with billboards and stuff.
And I would not let them put meon a billboard for the first
year.
And finally, one of them, one ofmy partners said, Stop being a

(36:35):
dork.
And so then they put it, and Iwas like, and then that
marketing went away, and I waslike, thank you.
Um but um it's just fascinating.
So is it that people listen tothe loudest without looking at
credentials or um or looking orthinking through this with

(36:59):
critical thinking skills?
Um if I'm making a ton of moneyon my supplements that I'm
giving you, should you ask memore than just automatically
listening to me?

SPEAKER_01 (37:11):
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (37:12):
I don't know.
I mean, you don't want somebodyto lose money.
I don't want somebody to losemoney.

SPEAKER_01 (37:16):
Sure.

SPEAKER_03 (37:17):
Um and if you're working hard, then you should be
able to monetize it on somelevel.
But where's the balance there?

SPEAKER_00 (37:27):
Yeah.
Um I've definitely seen likealmost specialists popping up
from even within your realm oflike hormone replacement therapy
and that sort of thing.
And you know, and and maybe it'sI guess a doctor has to sign off
on it at some level, but we seeit a lot in uh maybe not the
hormone replacement therapy, butlike Botox or injectables fill
or some med spas, and they havea doctor that signs off

(37:49):
somewhere, and then maybethere's a PA on site, or a lot
of times they'll just zoom themin.
Like you'll see some sketchystuff, and then especially
filler, filler can have some,and none of this is off topic,
but filler can have some badeffects, like if they put filler
in the wrong place, especiallyon your eyes, stuff like that.
Like if you don't have someoneon the site, really it's kind of
scary.

SPEAKER_03 (38:07):
Um but now to your point in hormones, to that total
point, what's so fascinating isin the last two years, I've seen
an increase in complicationsrelated to inappropriately
prescribed hormones in the lasttwo years more than I did in the
last 25.
This space has gotten sopopular.

(38:30):
And um and, you know, what iswhat is the definition of an
expert in hormone replacementtherapy?
You know, what is thatdefinition?
Is that self?
You know, for me, I would say um20, 27 years of experience,
having the specific trainingthat I did in residency, and

(38:53):
going on to do the additionalfunctional medicine and
integrative courses that I havedone for female for women's
health.
Um I would put that into thecategory of that.
But what what defines an expert?

(39:14):
How much training do you havejust because you know something
doesn't always know how to applyit?
And so with all thesecomplications, what that implies
is the lack of understanding ofthe risks.

SPEAKER_01 (39:29):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (39:30):
And I want you to feel better.
And I also don't want you tohave the risks.

SPEAKER_00 (39:37):
And it is something that kind of mimics what we deal
with in marketing advertising,different type of risk, because
we're talking about the humanbody versus the business.
But we see specialists a lotthat only look at one part of a
business.
You know, maybe it's just theGoogle Ads or just Facebook ads
or just the website, as opposedto the holistic view of all of
that is really your wholemarketing advertising.

(39:58):
I think we're seeing the samething happening with these
pop-up hormone clinics and thatsort of thing.
You're looking at one piece ofthe puzzle, and you know, like
you're saying, you're looking atsix different pieces.
You know, and if if a hormoneclinic, if their business is to
prescribe hormones and shootsomeone off TRT or whatever it
may be, Clomet or something,they're probably going to find a

(40:18):
reason to do it.
I mean, hopefully not.
Hopefully they're good honestpeople, but there's also a lot
of a lot of other parts, right?
Like what's her cortisol levels,do they what's her diet.
Um one thing we're talking aboutearlier that I've been trying to
do like food diaries, and is um,you know, the estrogen that is,
whether it's plastics in ourfood or whatever else, like how
much we're consuming every day.
That I mean, it does seem aroundus, it seems like at least in

(40:40):
America, testosterone seems tobe down.
It seems to be that estrogen'sup, and it seems like we have,
was it one in three are diabeticor prediabetic in the United
States now as a stata herd?
And it does seem like we'reconsuming a lot of that in food.
And it's increasing estrogen andfat and decreasing testosterone.

SPEAKER_03 (40:57):
Well, you're increasing estrogen, you're
increasing the more toxicestrogen.
Um, you are less likely toprocess and get rid of it, um,
and you are having substantiallymore inflammation.
Um, and that is probably one ofthe underlying causes for a lot

(41:19):
of the chronic diseases that wehave.

SPEAKER_00 (41:22):
There's a stat you were mentioning earlier, as I
got a drink out of my plasticbottle here in a minute.

SPEAKER_03 (41:26):
But I know, I'm drinking, you gave me a plastic
bottle.
That's gonna add to the ziplocbag that's already in my brain.

SPEAKER_00 (41:33):
Aaron Ross Powell That's the stat I was talking
about.
So was it by a certain ageziploc bag worth of Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (41:39):
And I I qu I qualified my comment that I did
not verify the study, but it didsay that you had, by the time
you were in your 40s or 50s, youhad the equivalent of a ziploc
bag in your brain.
And I was like, oh I'm inclinedto believe it.

SPEAKER_00 (41:55):
I mean, I mean, even the food you're talking about
wrapped in plastic, you know.
I mean I mean, how much do yougo through like in a personal
life trying to get like cleanerfood and keep plastic out and
that sort of thing?
Is that something you're prettycognate of about?

SPEAKER_03 (42:07):
Yes.
Yeah.
Very much.
Um and I want to look at this inbalance, right?
So I'm not gonna go to 10grocery stores to try to do
that, um, because that's gonnacut in my hike time with my dog.

SPEAKER_01 (42:19):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (42:20):
Or my cooking time or whatever.
But um, but I try very hard tojust at the very minimum try to
um get all my uh vegetables andproduce not wrapped in plastic.
Um and then um I try to getorganic meats and then organic

(42:43):
dairy.
Um, and you know, theconsumption of dairy in my
household, um, my kids off atschool, but we still have a
decent consumption of dairy, umand making that organic um is
important.
So I'm I I don't have I'm notgonna spend$2,000 to say I'm

(43:03):
gonna get everything organic andthen go to like 10 different
grocery stores, but I am goingto prioritize those, those three
areas.
Um, the other thing that I'vedone too, um I look at products,
skin products.
I don't use a lot of skinproducts, but um looking just at

(43:26):
skin products, shampoos, etc.
Um, and one of the great placesto look is the environmental
working group, um, just lookingat what we put on our bodies,
um, in our hair, how that'sbeing absorbed.
And so we think a lot aboutfood, but what else are we
doing?
And so there's definitelydifferent skin products that

(43:48):
I've changed purely for thatreason.

SPEAKER_00 (43:51):
That's something I have not really looked into.
I have noticed like a lot ofskin sensitivities I've gotten
older.
So like certain moisturizerslike I won't do well with.
And I found some that, you know,usually have less ingredients,
but I'll be honest, a lot of theingredients I still can't even
pronounce, let alone know whatthe hell it is.
Um I know aluminum is bad.
That's one thing I've as far asdeodorant, you know, putting

(44:11):
aluminum deodorant.
Um there's always those.
What are your thoughts onfluoride?
Is that something you ever doveinto?

SPEAKER_03 (44:18):
Or I have not really um I haven't really dug into
that.
Um I'm gonna use fluoridebecause I'd rather not have
cavities.
Um but I also look at it in thewhole picture of what are the
things that I'm gonna try towork on, right?
What are what are more do what'smore doable?

(44:40):
Um, what what's gonna give me alittle more bang for my buck?
I think it's gonna be the foodthan the toothpaste, but yeah, I
can't answer on that.

SPEAKER_00 (44:49):
Gotcha.

SPEAKER_03 (44:50):
But I'll look into it.

SPEAKER_00 (44:52):
If you dive down the rabbit hole, you'll find like,
well, it calcifies your frontallobe and all this stuff, and it
they use it in our water.
And there is some weird things.
I'm like, why is it in ourwater?
And there's reasons for it, Iguess.

SPEAKER_03 (45:04):
For well, you know what I think is interesting is
the moment you get super laserfocused like that, go there, but
then immediately take a biggerview.
Yeah.
Again.
Because the moment you focus onone thing, you've missed a
hundred.

SPEAKER_00 (45:22):
Yeah.
There's a lot of misinformationto to filter through.

SPEAKER_03 (45:26):
I mean, oh, there's so much.
So, you know what's fascinating.
Um, going back to my lecture onmenopause, um my husband and my
son, we put certain thingsthrough AI.
Um, because there was a couplethings that I just couldn't get
it to sound the way I wanted itto sound.
Um, and so we put it through AI.

(45:47):
And what was so fascinating wasthere was definitely some
benefit.
However, they changed myinformation just enough to make
it inaccurate.
But when I showed it to my son,he couldn't see that because he
doesn't have the background thatI do.

SPEAKER_00 (46:09):
Do you think it was on purpose or just on accident?

SPEAKER_03 (46:11):
It was AI.
They're not, I don't thinkthey're, I mean, maybe there's
conspiracy theory.
I don't know.
But but what was fascinating washe didn't know that that small
change made that piece ofinformation incorrect.

SPEAKER_00 (46:28):
Gotcha.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (46:30):
Which is so fascinating to me.
Is um it's like, you rememberthat old game telephone?

SPEAKER_00 (46:37):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (46:38):
Are you old enough to remember that?

SPEAKER_00 (46:39):
Is it where you tell someone something?

SPEAKER_03 (46:41):
You tell somebody something and then and then at
the end you're like, what didwhat is it?
And it's never the same as whatit began.
Um how it began.
Um I have used more, I haven'tused all the AI programs, but
one that I use fairly often isthe one through Doximity, which
is a medical based app.

(47:02):
Um and what they do is they puttheir resources at the end.
So if you ask a medicalquestion, they'll give you the
answer, but then they'll giveyou your source, their sources.

SPEAKER_00 (47:14):
Um interesting.

SPEAKER_03 (47:16):
Which is which is interesting.
So I've put something in ChatGPT and I've put something in
Doximity.
And um, they both have goodinformation.
I think that Chat GPT rewritesit a little bit more clearly
than the other one.
You know, it's a little moreclunky, but they're also more
likely to create somethingincorrect by just making it

(47:41):
little adjustments.

SPEAKER_00 (47:42):
Aaron Powell How often I mean are you seeing AI
change what you do or yourindustry or any changes that's
currently I I think that I mean,yes.

SPEAKER_03 (47:50):
Um of the things that I do is I use um an AI
dictation service where I recordthe visit and then it organizes
the information and then I putit in the note.
It doesn't decide what to do, itdoesn't give me recommendations,
it just organizes theinformation.
Um I do know that they'relooking into you know

(48:13):
recommendations and stuff.
I that's not what I've workedwith.
And it's probably reduced mytyping by about 30%.
Wow.
Which is good.
Yeah um, but that means it's notgood enough yet.
Um because I always have toedit.
Um, and I'm still doing theclinical decision making.

(48:34):
It's not telling me, oh, trythis.
Right.
Um I'm doing the clinicaldecision making.

SPEAKER_00 (48:40):
Do you think there will be a point where it will
say do this and it will beright?

SPEAKER_03 (48:46):
I think what would be very helpful is if you have a
list of symptoms and then itgives you a differential
diagnosis.
So I give my differentialdiagnosis, it gives its
differential diagnosis, and thenyou look at the how does that
align.
Um and what that will help youwith is some of these zebras.

(49:09):
Now, most things are common, soyou don't always need to know
those zebras.
But every once in a while it'snice to kind of like expand that
and go, oh yeah, I, you know,nine times out of ten, I don't
need that zebra.
But wow, this one person would Ineeded that zebra.

SPEAKER_00 (49:27):
It's interesting.
One of the guys I had on apodcast two podcasts ago, he's
in cybersecurity.
Um well, you know JohnAnthony's.

SPEAKER_03 (49:36):
Oh yeah, he's a great guy.

SPEAKER_00 (49:36):
Yeah.
And we were talking aboutsomeone, yeah.
We had coffee this week as well,talking about AI some more and
where it basically will eat itsown tail, you know, at a certain
point, because it's just kind offed more information from
humans.
But it is kind of interesting tothink about maybe other doctors
around the world, you know, asthey contribute papers, if it
could potentially crawl themfaster, you know, maybe
peer-reviewed articles, whateverit might be, and then document

(49:58):
the sources so you have validityto it.
Like it's kind of an interestingidea.
Like maybe it just doesn'tnecessarily give you new ideas,
but it gives maybe otherexperienced professionals,
doctors in this case, you know,their synopsis of it.
I don't know.
You think you'll ever eliminatethe need for a doctor?
Think that's ever possible?

SPEAKER_03 (50:20):
I don't think so.
I don't think so.
One so one of the things I usedAI a lot.
Um, and what I like for, like touse it for is additional
information, but also how toorganize my thoughts and what's
in my head in order to speak itmore clearly to other people, so
it's usable information.

(50:41):
So who cares that it's all in myhead?
It's more about can I help youfeel better?
And I found that, at least forme, that's where some of that is
is helpful.
Um what's interesting isinformation does not create good
outcome.
So if I don't know much and I'ma medical student, and I look at

(51:05):
AI and it tells me I, you know,feed it the symptoms and it
tells me what to look for.
If I don't have criticalthinking skills and some level
of experience and knowledge orguidance from somebody else,
that has not improved patientcare.

(51:25):
So one of the challenges that Ithink is if people rely far too
heavily on a computer givingthem data, then they're not
going to use their criticalthinking skills, um, which is an
incredibly important part ofthat.
And people aren't being taughtcritical thinking skills the way

(51:48):
we were.
I mean, it's it's just I mean, Idon't think anybody would argue
with that.

SPEAKER_00 (51:55):
I mean, even to simple auto mechanics, you know,
like from Google and YouTubeexisting for the last, what, 20
plus years, 25 years now.
Um but now with just being ableto voice ask ChatGPT or Gemini
or whatever and get an instantanswer is.
And I heard someone else talkingabout this on AI recently as an
AI um uh doctor of of computerscience focused on AI.

(52:19):
And he's like, well, it alreadyhappened.
I mean, look at how many phonenumbers do you memorize now?
You know, it's all in thecontent.
And I hadn't even thought aboutthat.
Where how many times you domath, simple math in your head,
you got your calculator rightthere.
And it's like I guess back inschool, and they say, well, you
won't always have a calculatorwith you.
It's like wrong.
Now we do.
And it and it has kind of dumbedme down.
You know, like I don't do simplemath in my head.

(52:39):
Usually I just pull out mycalculator.
I don't memorize a phone number.
Um I'm curious to see.

SPEAKER_03 (52:45):
But you know, that all contributes to critical
thinking skills.

SPEAKER_00 (52:48):
Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Absolutely.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (52:49):
Is is how are you working your brain?
Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_00 (52:52):
Yeah.
I think AI is gonna reduce itmore and more.
There's already studies showingthat, that people are just there
is a weird have you heard thekind of phenomenon, though,
where people will get stuck kindof like a chat GPT, or I guess
not to not to silo them.
It could be any of them, butbasically you kind of build a
persona in some ways it's kindof telling you what you want to
hear.

(53:12):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (53:12):
Yeah.
Well, that's I find that sointeresting because that happens
when you do any search.
So um I had a patient recentlywho she and I disagreed about
something, and I said, Okay, youlook this subject up on your
phone, and I will look it up onmy phone, and let's see where

(53:36):
Google takes us.
And none of our sites overlappedat all on where Google took us.
Google took me to all medicalscientific sites and sites that
cited medical research, etcetera.
That was everything that cameout.

(53:57):
And um everything that came upon her phone, I'm gonna say,
because I didn't, I'm not givingyou all the information, so you
nobody can try to figure out,but it was all fringe sites.
Yeah.
It was nothing that was based onscience at all.
And I just I said, look, lookwhat your phone's giving you
versus what's my phone.
I'm not saying one is right, butthe sites that you're looking

(54:20):
at, they're not scientificallyoriented.
Um, they're just not.
Um, and she was fascinated bythat.
It was you can't do that all thetime because people are not
going to appreciate that.
But I knew that she would shewould find that interesting.
And she was like, oh mygoodness.
Um so we had oppositeinformation, mine all scientific

(54:44):
medical, hers not a single oneof them.
They were all what most of uswould consider fringe sites.

SPEAKER_00 (54:50):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (54:51):
Isn't that interesting?

SPEAKER_00 (54:52):
Oh, it is.
And I'll get another conspiracyrabbit hole there, but there's a
lot that Google, you know, notjust in North Korea either.
You know, it happens here in theStates that it will not return
in search engines based on whatyou're searching.
And COVID was one of them forsure.
Like that one.

SPEAKER_01 (55:06):
Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (55:07):
It eliminated all kinds from Dr.
Robert Malone and mRNA andeverything else.
I mean, a lot of stuff waseliminated.
Even studies that I foundbefore, and I would use other
search engines like um TorBrowser had a search engine, and
there's another one I forgotthat was using back then.

SPEAKER_03 (55:23):
But um, so do you do you know who Ben Carson is?
Dr.
Ben Carson?
Okay.
He's an amazing, he's amazing.
He's one of the smartest peopleI've ever met in my entire life.
And I asked him, I said, what isgoing on?
Why can't we get thisinformation?
And he laughed at me.
And he said, Tricia, it's allabout money and power.

(55:46):
When something doesn't makesense, it's about money and
power.
And uh we talked through that.
And that's what it was.
It was money and power.

SPEAKER_01 (55:56):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (55:57):
Um where that kind of information was not readily
available in in context.

SPEAKER_00 (56:06):
Yeah.
Wild times.
I know.
Still living in them, I guess.
Maybe forever.
I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 (56:13):
I know.
I felt silly when he said thatto me, but I th I felt like,
well, that's right.
He's right.

SPEAKER_00 (56:19):
Oh, he's absolutely right.
I agree 100%.
Yeah, there's you can go checkother browsers, you there's
other tests you can do on it,but they literally will not
return some things that are outthere that scientists are saying
are true and they just don'thave a voice anymore.
It's kind of weird.
You know.

SPEAKER_03 (56:33):
But where you get better is actually having a
conversation and speaking toeverybody.
And so um sometimes you do needto hear the fringe stuff because
that helps you reset.
Um and so it's just beingallowed to only have one
narrative is never gonna helppeople.

SPEAKER_01 (56:55):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (56:56):
And you should be asking questions.
I mean, if there's anything weshould be doing always is asking
questions.

SPEAKER_00 (57:04):
Yeah.

unknown (57:05):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (57:05):
I mean, if people are humans are trying to solve
problems, identify what's goingwrong, you have to have all
options open.
If you're just siloed into oneand this is the only way, well,
that's never how you know evenwhen I was doing studying
computer science, that was neverhow we analyze problems.
It can't be like this is theonly option.
It's like, well, how how haveour operating languages gotten

(57:27):
any better?
How have they become uh moreefficient?
You know, it's because peopleare opening up all options and
reviewing better ways of doingthings and writing code and
shortening it.
Ugh.
I'll not go down that rabbithole any further.

SPEAKER_03 (57:40):
Aaron Ross Powell We'll take out we'll we'll get
out of that rabbit hole.

SPEAKER_00 (57:44):
Well, um it's been great chatting with you.
Um that was a lot lessnerve-wracking than I thought it
would be.

SPEAKER_03 (57:50):
But so what's do you have what's one question you
wanted to ask that you hadn'tasked that is okay?

SPEAKER_00 (57:57):
That is okay.
That's the I mean, there's somethat are not okay.
Most of them are not okay.
Um I think I asked most of them.
You know, I was curious aboutthe hormone therapy and because
as we talked before, likesomething that I've kind of
studied with being 40 now andlike trying to still be like as
much peak as I can be offitness.
And in the men's world, youknow, there's ads everywhere for

(58:19):
it.
You know, it's one of thosethings where you can get at-home
TRT now.
So I was curious how that wasaffecting the women's side of
things.
Um I guess.

SPEAKER_03 (58:27):
The testosterone?

SPEAKER_00 (58:28):
Yeah, testosterone therapy.

SPEAKER_03 (58:30):
And well, it's it, you know, what I think is
there's not enough studies anddata on testosterone in Whitman.
It definitely is uh helpful, butI don't think we have the best
understanding of risks um andside effects.
Um it's also habit forming,that's why it's a scheduled

(58:50):
drug.
Okay.
And so um, you know, it's yeah,it's habit forming.
And so um that's a great way tobuild a clinic if I can build a
clinic on something that's habitforming.

SPEAKER_00 (59:06):
I did not know that.

SPEAKER_03 (59:07):
Um at high doses.
So for women, there is someevidence that it really at the
higher doses that it's morehabit forming.
Um and it's a you know, it's adrug with street value.
That's the other reason why it'sscheduled.
So, you know, the differentschedules of drugs are either
related to street value oraddictive nature or something

(59:30):
like that.
And so there is an element ofhabit-forming nature in it.
And I think it's wise to just becareful with whatever you are
going to put in your body.
Um, and I definitely havepatients that do so much better,
but it's not a hundred percent.
It is not a hundred percent.

(59:50):
Because um, at least in myexperience, which is a pretty
big experience, a lot of womenwill feel better, but then they
will also have side effects.
More quickly than somebody, thanit with other treatments that
you might give.
Gotcha.
So there's definitely a place.
I definitely think we need moreawareness.

(01:00:11):
I definitely think we need morestudies on this so we can look
at this.
And we, you know, we don't haveany FDA-approved sources for
testosterone for women.
And so where it is is in thecompounding world, which isn't
studied.
And the reason why it's notstudied is because there's no

(01:00:34):
quality controls in that space.
So when it's not FDA regulated,you do not have out external
quality controls that areregulated.
It's not automated.
You don't do batch testing,meaning you don't check to see
if that's what you're giving.
When there's been externalstudies looking at this, looking

(01:00:57):
at supplements, there's anywherefrom zero to over a hundred
percent more of something that'sin it.
So so it's I think it's unfairto women that there's not an
FDA-approved testosterone thatcan actually be studied for that
benefit.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:18):
Yeah, I've never I didn't realize all of that, to
be honest.
That that is very interesting.
So where are we sourcing thisfrom?
I mean, I guess China, I'm surea lot of it comes from China.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:26):
Well, it's it's it's it's compounded.
So you could what you could dois you could take the
testosterone that is FDAapproved for men and then
compound it, change the dosing,et cetera, and have it for
women.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:42):
I got you.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:42):
Okay.
So it's not just that you'retaking something from another
country or anything like that.
So like compounded ozempicsemaglutide, there's probably
some of that is taking the theFDA-approved semaglutide and
then making that into thecompound.
But you also don't know whereyou're getting, you don't know

(01:02:05):
where it's sourced, right?

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:06):
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:07):
Um and so it's really hard to study an unknown.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:13):
Yeah, that's that's very interesting.
I didn't know that it wasn't FDAapproved for women.

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:17):
The doses for men are much higher than what would
be appropriate for women.
And so um, so and there's noFDA-approved um treatment for
women.
So um that we need to change.
We need to be able to see morestudies on on that.
And I and that's one of thegreat things about um hormonal

(01:02:40):
health, menopause, women'shealth being such a hot topic is
hopefully there's gonna be morehelpful research because
everybody throwing out theiridea is not really gonna be
helpful for women.
What's what's helpful is athoughtful approach with what we

(01:03:00):
know, understand what we know,and understand what we don't
know.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:07):
Is there anything that I missed today that you
want to talk about?

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:11):
Um I would say that you didn't miss it, but it's
such a passion for me to look atthis whole approach and looking
at diet, exercise, sleep, stressmanagement, appropriate use of
supplements and medications.
And really, life is a journey,and what is going to work best

(01:03:34):
for you right now to help youfeel better might be different
than in three months.
So don't just focus on that onething.
Like, you know, I told you abouthormone replacement therapy.
I was so miserable, I wasn'tdoing anything.
I restarted the I startedhormone replacement therapy,
then I went back and looked atmy diet and exercise and

(01:03:54):
improved that so that I didn'tjust feel 70% better, I felt 90%
better.
And so um so you definitelytouched on that, but that would
be the only thing I would loveto emphasize more is looking at
the rest of that.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:12):
Gotcha.
I do agree with that.
I mean, even on the, of course,I'm not a female, but on the
male side, uh, or just human Imean, animals in general.
You know, I think it appliesreally to everyone, like having
that holistic view of whatyou're eating, uh everything
you're consuming, stress levels,uh, exercise.
I've noticed that in my ownlife, and it's really hard to

(01:04:33):
balance uh with work life.
How do you balance it with worklife?
I mean, long hours and whatyou're doing, or well, a couple
things.

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:41):
First of all, I have a husband who is super, super
supportive on me getting the umrest, relaxation exercise.
So we've always had like a goodpartnership.
The other good thing about it isour skill sets are
complementary.
Our skill sets don't reallyoverlap.
So we don't have to fight overthe kitchen.

(01:05:03):
I love the kitchen, I love tocook, and he fixes everything in
the house.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:08):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:08):
So he's always been really, really great on kind of
balancing that out.
Um when Walker was little, um,just always.
And so when there was free time,he allowed for me to have what
he did on the home front,allowed for me to go take a hike
with the dog.

(01:05:29):
Um, the other thing is you haveto reset on not just what you
want, but what you're able todo.
So I heard this fabulouspodcast.
Uh, this was probably aboutfive, 10 years ago.
And the woman said the 15-minutewalk I did was much better than
the hour I never got to at thegym.

(01:05:50):
So I per I have done a personalself-study where how much time
to exercise will move the needleon just me feeling better.
And a 15-minute walk will makeme feel better.
So I do that, you know, is thatgoing to be my exercise every
day?

(01:06:10):
No.
But am I breaking it down intotime increments that are doable?
Um, so really being present andthoughtful and thinking about my
day is like I don't just startmy day and go.
I think the night before, whatdo I need to do?
Can I exercise tomorrow morning?
Nope, I'm starting surgery at 7a.m.

(01:06:32):
Tomorrow is not an exercise day.
It'll maybe a short walk afterdinner or something, but
tomorrow's not my exercise day.
The next day I start at theregular time.
Okay, I can exercise then.
Um, so it's really, I wouldnever get anything accomplished
for myself in the realm ofself-care if I wasn't thoughtful

(01:06:53):
about what I was going to do thenext day.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:55):
Gotcha.
It sounds like your schedule canchange on each week, like day to
day, too.

SPEAKER_03 (01:07:00):
Oh, it can change in two minutes.

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:02):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:07:03):
So I might have to deal with an emergency.
Um the other day I got reallybacked up because of a really,
really sad emergency with apatient.
Um and I needed to stop andattend to her needs.
And that j that derailed mywhole morning, but that was
appropriate.

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:22):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's got to make the whole uhwork-life balance that much more
challenging.
Yeah, like you kind of just haveto fit it anywhere you can.
So I see that.

SPEAKER_03 (01:07:31):
Yeah, but you have to be thoughtful.
You have to be thoughtful.
And you have to make choices.
You really do.
Um, one of another mantra that Iuse is if I say yes to that,
what am I saying no to?
And 99% of the time when I sayyes to something, it means no to
um quality of life.

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:49):
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:07:50):
Not always, but you you know.

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:53):
That's the one I struggle with is the ability to
say no.
Maybe it's harder in the south,too.
I feel like it's easier upnorth, but being able to say no
comfortably, you know, whetherit's to work or whatever it is,
friends.
That could be a tough one.
Still learning that one.

SPEAKER_03 (01:08:07):
Well, you're gonna say no to a lot of good things.

SPEAKER_00 (01:08:09):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:08:10):
And that's I mean, it's not good or bad.
It's you're gonna say no to goodthings.
It's just too much.
And you know, there's only 24hours in a day.
And so when people arestruggling, one of the first
things I think of is they have a24-hour day, they're putting 26
hours of work in.

SPEAKER_02 (01:08:28):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:08:28):
They will struggle.

SPEAKER_02 (01:08:30):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:08:30):
And that's one of the one of the first filters
that I'm thinking of is what areyou trying to put in your 24
hour day?
And you're never gonna findthree or four bad things to take
out.
It's gonna be adjusting multipleareas.
But what do you want?
Do you want to th do you want tojust survive or do you want to

(01:08:50):
thrive?

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:52):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:08:53):
And um to that point, a lot of us spend a lot
of time in uh fight, flight, orfreeze.
And that's not when we make gooddecisions.

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:03):
That's a good point.

SPEAKER_03 (01:09:04):
That's the sympathetic nervous system.
Um the sim the parasympatheticnervous system is where you
actually absorb your food,digest, rest.
That's where you have qualitythinking, that's where you can
make better decisions.
We don't spend a lot of time inthat in that space.

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:24):
That really hit home right there, yeah.
I live a lot in the uh theformer for sure.

SPEAKER_03 (01:09:29):
Most of us do.

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:30):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:09:30):
And one thing, not to add to that, but I will, is
being mindful of your circadianrhythm.
You know, there is a 24-hourclock in your body that is
there.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:42):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:09:43):
And you can will it away, but it ain't going
anywhere.
And the more you uh attend tothose rhythms of your circadian
rhythm also makes a bigdifference for the fight,
flight, freeze sympatheticversus parasympathetic nervous
system.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:00):
I had a coach that pointed that out to me a couple
of years ago and he said if yougo to bed, you know, start
testing it, but I found that ifI went to bed after 10 p.m.,
especially after like really10.15 is about a cutoff, but I
slept worse.
The next day I was worse, and Isleep was worse.
But if I can get in bed between9 to 10 and be asleep in that
time, I slept so much better.
You know, woke up bettermentally, less brain fog.

(01:10:21):
So definitely something too.
And it's hard to do, especiallyin summer hours.
You know, the sun's up to 9.30here.

SPEAKER_03 (01:10:26):
I'm not saying it's easy.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:27):
I want to be out playing when the sun's up.

SPEAKER_03 (01:10:29):
But if you're not thinking about it, are you ever
going to do it?
And are you going to connectthose dots?
Unlikely.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:35):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:10:38):
See, you learned something from me today.
That was kind of cool.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:40):
Oh, I learned a lot from you today.
Yeah.
I was just sitting therethinking, like, this could be uh
multiple podcasts, just diveinto the weeds and all this
stuff.
Um, it was really, really greatto talk to you, and definitely
could be a lot more podcastsbecause there's a lot of things
I'm so curious on.

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:54):
I'd you just Well, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:56):
Thank you.
Thanks for coming on andchatting with me.
Um hopefully you enjoyed it andhopefully it wasn't too much.

SPEAKER_03 (01:11:01):
No, I did.
No, I I thoroughly enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:04):
Were you nervous the whole time or did it?

SPEAKER_03 (01:11:06):
I was only nervous at the beginning, but my passion
for women's health and aholistic approach to life is so
important that mo once you getme on there, I'm like, yay, this
is fabulous.

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:16):
Well, great, great.
Well, uh well, thanks again forcoming in.
If someone wanted to find you,Galen Medical Group, Dr.
Patricia McClellan, yes, websiteas well.
I mean, it sounds like you'rebooked out probably from here
on, but if someone want to lookyou up, that is that the best
place to find you?

SPEAKER_03 (01:11:30):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:30):
Okay.

SPEAKER_03 (01:11:31):
Or in the woods hiking with my dog.