December 26, 2024 • 56 mins
This week, the Traders visit the icy land of Wintercraig in a romantasy full of weather magic and intrigue as they cover The Winter King by C.L. Wilson. This is Part 3 of 4
Triggers: torture, abuse, loss of pregnancy, discussion of off-page war and rape
Tropes: damsel in distress, enemies to lovers, magic systems, miscommunication
KU: Yes
Recommendation: TBD
For more of the author, check out www.clwilson.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey friends, just a quick reminder before we get into today's episode, come join us
(00:04):
over on our Patreon.
That's where we release bonus episodes every other week and we've already got over 20
episodes from 2023 that you can download and binge right now for as little as $3 a month.
We've covered so many good books there, Haunting Adeline, Chateau, Gotha Canna, and so many
more.
That's also where we'll cover any books in a series we continue, so Serpent in Dove,
(00:25):
High Mountain Court, Serpent in the Wings of Night.
You can continue those series with us on Patreon right now.
Finally, as a patron, we let you know what we're going to read every month so you can
read along with us if that's your jam.
Anyway, that's all from me on to today's episode.
Also, I mentioned this last night because it was in my notes.
(00:45):
And this is like, I just have to say it to you, I don't think it could be the cold
open I guess, I don't know.
But in the scene, in the tent, literally where we started part two.
Yeah.
And he's wearing his loincloth and he takes his loincloth off.
She looks at him and his pubes are straight.
They're straight.
Like a wolf's belt.
(01:07):
I can't picture that.
And I had to say thanks.
I was looking at my notes for today and I forgot that those notes were yesterday and
I was just like, ew.
Ew.
Welcome to Your Saved Space, the podcast your partner, friends, parents, whoever thinks is
(01:30):
dirty.
Don't have time to read books, want to understand the jokes in the tics-hacks, we got you fam.
We're the spice traders and we deal in spicy books.
I'm Katie and I need it to make sense.
I'm Liz and I'm hypercritical.
As always, we start every episode with three things.
The first is a generic trigger warning.
We even find specific triggers for this book in our show notes, so please check those out.
(01:51):
Also we do use foul language and talk a lot about sex.
If you have sensitivity to any of this, please give this episode a skip.
Secondly, we talk about books.
The whole book, nothing but the books that helped me got us.
If you plan to read this book and don't want something spoiled right now, don't listen
to this episode.
Lastly, we acknowledge that a good book can hit you at the wrong time.
The views expressed in our discussion are our opinion and we absolutely don't want
(02:13):
to diminish the work and the talent of the authors in our community.
Outside, we have some notes.
What are we talking about today, Katie?
Well, we're still on The Winter King by C.L. Wilson.
(02:36):
This is part three.
I promise we're almost done.
This is part three of four.
And we will be covering chapters 16 through 21 today.
So let's get into it.
Let's do it.
When we last left off, Cam had just basically had a miscarriage and she's recovering, right?
(02:57):
So while she's recovering, she sees very little of her husband, Winter.
She thinks that this is going to be rough already.
She sees so little of him that she thinks he might be stepping out with Reika and so she
follows him and finds that he spends a lot of time in the atrium, the forbidden zone,
(03:19):
if you will remember, sometimes even all night.
One night after she's followed him and she's fallen asleep, kind of like waiting for him
to come out, he finds her and asks if she's satisfied her curiosity enough as he carries
her back to her room.
I don't know anything.
She asks what he's doing in the atrium and he tells her nothing that concerns her and
(03:42):
makes her swear not to enter or send someone on her behalf to enter.
She begrudgingly promises not to enter the atrium and resigns herself to another celibate
night as he leaves her alone in her bed.
It's the miscommunication trope at its finest.
We do find out what's in the atrium.
It's stupid that he made it so wrapped in mystery and it's also stupid that she's not
(04:06):
just like, hey, it bothers me because I think you're cheating on me and I would like you
to sleep with me and said like they just don't talk.
Yeah, they just don't.
They don't communicate very well.
He's like, it's forbidden and she's like, okay.
This is also the prime example of like how they just don't know how to talk to each other
outside of having sex.
Yeah, and that continues for most, I mean this part kind of changes a little bit near
(04:29):
the end, but yeah.
So when Winter goes back to his own bedroom, he admits that the way he feels about Cam
has too much power over him and he beats off to the thought of her.
Just go back in her room.
You're literally okay.
It's fine.
Right.
So after that, Winter spends even less time with Cam, not even showing his face at dinner.
(04:54):
This causes the court to gossip that Cam has fallen out of favor, which galls Cam to no
end.
So she starts finding excuses to be away from the palace too.
Specifically, she and Christie ride all over the place.
Cam tries to befriend the Winter folk without much luck and she's talking to Christie about
that and Christie's like, well, you could try dressing like them and maybe you would
have more luck.
(05:14):
He says, quote, I'm just saying if you dress and act like a foreigner, you shouldn't be
surprised that they treat you like one.
Fair point.
Yeah, it's valid.
And she's been stubbornly holding on to her clothing, which to be clear, like bright
jewel tones and everyone else wears like greys and whites and creams.
Yeah.
And like, they already know that you're different.
They already know that you're from the place that they all hate.
(05:37):
It's like going to a foreign country that hates America and just wearing all American
flags.
Yeah.
Wow.
That's such poor taste.
I know.
I'm sorry.
So she takes this advice and when she does, Winter notices immediately.
(06:00):
From his perspective, rather than make her blend in more, it sets off her coloring against
the pale wash of his people.
So she's like dark haired and mysterious against all of these milk toasty blonde people, which
is fine, but it did confuse me a little bit because Winter is tan.
Well, I think he's just not white, but like, is everyone else white and he's just not
(06:22):
white and there's no other non-white people.
It's just these two.
It's true.
Okay, this is awkward.
It's super awkward.
Yeah.
No, that's honestly a fair point.
And I kind of forgot that he was described as a person of color because like, especially
(06:44):
like toward the back half of this book, it definitely like skews toward like Scandinavia
adjacent.
Yes.
Like maybe this happens in Norway kind of thing.
Very much.
And so whenever we see his tan skin, I'm like, oh yeah.
Oh, what?
You're the color of brown butter.
I get that.
(07:05):
I get that.
But then you have white silver hair.
Nobody else looks like you.
No, no.
So she does this, right?
And he's like, man, she's attractive.
But the six week deadline where she's supposed to heal and he's not supposed to fuck her
(07:27):
passes, but winter doesn't go to Cam.
He's desperately trying to keep his distance.
But he's not getting laid.
He's certainly in literally icy in meetings with his people.
And so Valak's finally like, will you please get laid already and like do us all a favor.
I did think this conversation was so funny because Valak says that and he's like, I thought
(07:50):
you didn't trust her and Valak's like, I don't.
But like you're a pain in the ass.
And that's what she's here for, right?
Like go fuck her and put a baby in her.
That's what that's why we're here.
Like what are you doing?
What is the problem?
So Galacia is also in this conversation and adds that quote truth be told she was probably
(08:11):
healthy enough within a week of the poisoning.
But stupid me, I thought you might use the time to get to know your wife, not avoid her
like the plague.
I love Galacia.
She's my favorite character.
She's amazing.
Cause like, yeah, what's wrong with you?
Truly.
And she goes on to add that the court has noticed winter's shunning of Cam and it has
made her life a misery.
So like good job, buddy.
(08:32):
What were you intending to do?
Right.
And like also what did you think was going to happen?
You know they're all watching you.
They're certainly watching her.
So for you to be snubbing her for now two months, it's a problem.
Galacia and Valak are like brother.
Like stop your being ridiculous and also your payment the ass and a jerk.
So like, can we get past this and winter's like, I have more important things to do.
(08:54):
I need to get these preparations for an invasion sorted.
And like after that's done, I'll fix things with Cam.
And so his intention in this is to visit the newly refurbished towers to make sure they're
satisfactory, but that's going to take like weeks and Valak and Galacia are like, good
plan.
It's so, it's so stupid.
I was supposed to taking like, I don't know, 20 minutes to fix this.
(09:15):
You're going to put it off for more weeks.
Truly.
So just before winter leaves this meeting, Galacia tells him to give Cam a chance because
she's seen no sign of treachery in her.
Winter ruminates to himself that whether he's enchanted or not, when he returns from inspecting
the towers, his separation from his wife will end.
Okay.
Great.
(09:36):
Cool.
Before he sets off, Rekha shows up and is like, Oh my king, will you see me as far as my
country house cause my dad is dying?
And this is where like Valak and Rekha are related and Valak just doesn't give a fuck
about this guy.
No, who would be his uncle and like you're close to your cousins, but don't give a shit
(09:57):
about their parent.
Like, okay, are you related or not?
Why are we pretending?
Yeah.
No, exactly.
So winter's like, I know this is a bad idea, but I can't just like say no.
So let me just go run and leave a note for Cam and maybe that will make it okay.
Which of course it doesn't because the whole court sees Rekha leave with winter and Cam
(10:19):
never gets this fucking note and I don't know what happened to it.
Okay.
I wanted to ask if I had missed something because and we don't go back to it.
Like he says, like, did you get my note later?
And she says what note?
And like, we just never go back to it.
I think Bella moved it, hit it, got rid of it, but I don't know why she would.
(10:40):
Yeah, I have to assume that Bella is like, because when when Cam gets back to her room,
Bella is like stoking the fire.
So like maybe it's supposed to be implied that Bella like burned the note.
But yeah, but I wish we got confirmation of that when Bella's treachery is revealed
later.
I have a hard time believing that.
(11:00):
Yeah, because it's unclear.
Like it could have come out.
It could have come out later.
Like why didn't Bella just admit that as part of her like plot or something like, oh, I
wanted to start a fight, whatever.
Right, exactly.
So anyway, uh, so Cam comes back to her room and she learns that Reka left with winter
(11:24):
from Bella.
And this news makes her eat dinner in her rooms.
She's like angry and hurt and her emotions are getting the best of her to the point
where she's like, I have to like go underground.
Otherwise the storm that I'm creating is going to kill people.
So she goes down to the cellars to dissipate the storm that the mood has conjured.
She wallows to herself quote, what is wrong with her that no one wanted her.
(11:48):
She was aware of her shortcomings, her short temper, the violent nature of her weather
gift, her need to rebel against authority.
But despite those drawbacks, she had always tried to live a good life, be a good person.
A person Roland Solgius would have been proud to call a friend, honorable, loyal, trustworthy,
brave.
And she was the abomination her father had called her.
Maybe everyone else could see the evil in her and that's why they reviled her.
(12:10):
That's made me so sad.
I know.
It's very sad, but I find even in this a little bit of juvenality because she's like a person
Roland Solgius would have been proud to call a friend.
At this point, Roland is like a bedtime story almost.
Like, I know every time she references them, I'm like, you're a five year old.
(12:35):
Yeah.
But it is really sad.
And I don't know.
It this scratched the damsel in distress like thing for me.
Yeah, it did for me too.
So after she's done crying, she resolves that she's done being docile and trying to play
nice and she goes to break into the atrium.
(12:56):
I love her like, well, if you're not going to keep your vows and I'm not going to either.
I love that too because she's like, okay, fine, you can break your promise.
I'll break all of mine.
We don't have to be friends.
That's cool.
Which I love that.
So once she's inside, rather than like state secrets or something, she finds a whole bunch
(13:17):
of ice sculptures like an entire forest of ice sculptures with like little vignettes
of like a family here and there and cams like, dude, what in the actual fuck?
This is not at all what I expected to find here.
And so she just starts wandering around and she begins to realize that the people, the
vignettes that she sees are all the same people and she comes to realize that it's winter
(13:41):
in his family.
And I, I forgot until like not even in this part, but later, but that this is where the
prologue starts, like we see winter and his brother in here making ice sculptures.
Yeah, I did like that callback.
And then I forgot that that was a hobby they had.
I did too.
So after that first time, she goes back like a lot over the two weeks that winter is gone.
(14:04):
Cam finds errands for Christie to do so he doesn't get suspicious of where she spends
her time either.
And she has all but removed herself from court.
She's like obsessive.
She is.
I think if she could sleep in that place, she would.
Yeah, she would.
And that obsession was a little bit strange to me.
Like just how intensive it was.
Like she would go to sleep just waiting until she could wake up and go back, which doesn't
(14:27):
matter.
But I was like, this is a lot.
She kind of speaks to that later.
And I don't think it's giving anything away now to say that like the thing that she finds
in this room that I think she can't help herself, but go back to is like a depiction of a loving
family.
And I think she's like trying to convince herself that she could be a part of that family, like
(14:49):
in a pretend world.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's just sad.
Very sad.
Because like this is funny that it'll come up, but she like brings like she packs a lunch
to have with the pretend ice family.
Yeah.
She like has a picnic with the ice sculpture family, which like, oh girl.
(15:11):
I know.
She's like, I'd rather be with these ice sculptures than literally any of the real humans around
me.
Oh, man.
That's rough.
It's dark in here.
So when winter returns, his men tell him that three Falcons were seen around the palace,
but they haven't sourced who they made contact with.
And the insinuation here is that winter Craig men don't use Falcons because that one dude
(15:37):
named Falcon fucked a lot of shit up.
So it must be from traders.
Obviously.
It's so stupid.
So winter's like cool.
Where's my wife and his men are like, well, you said to watch, but not intervene.
And she's in the atrium and he's like, what?
(16:00):
The one place I told her not to go.
How quadruple.
He goes beast mode.
And he goes full base mode.
Beauty in the beast mode.
Yeah.
So he goes to the atrium in a fury and accuses Cam of spying for her brother.
He accuses her of breaking her oath and that he should have known better since she comes
from a long line of liars.
(16:20):
This causes cams anger to fire and she starts summoning a storm outside.
She accuses him of being a ruthless murderer all because Elka preferred Falcon to him.
And after being married to him, she can't blame her.
He's like, I cared for you just fine.
And she's like, oh, let me count the ways.
Quote, to what care exactly do you refer?
You mean the way you ignore me for weeks on end that care or the way that you have made
(16:44):
it clear to every member of your court that I am to be ostracized and treated as a source
of pathetic amusement?
I mean, yeah, girl.
I do like the way that she fights for herself in the scene.
I do too.
Like this is, this is one of the things that I really like about this book where we get
such a damsel in distress, but she's not weak by any means.
(17:07):
Like she kind of reminds me of Meg Hercules and the I'm a damsel.
I'm distressed.
Get out of my way.
Yes.
I love that comparison, especially the longer that she's away from her father.
She really doesn't take any shit.
Yes, which I adore.
Yeah.
So she says all this stuff, but winter doesn't take ownership of the way that he's treated
(17:27):
her and gets back to her not being allowed on the atrium.
And I was like, Oh yeah, because of all the state secrets that are hidden here.
Cool.
Cool.
Cool.
He's like, look, you betrayed my trust.
You promised not to come in here.
And she's like, yeah, and you promise not to whore around with Reka and yet here we
are.
And he's like, I left you a note and she's like, what note, dude?
I didn't get a fucking note.
(17:48):
I didn't get a fucking note.
And like I said before, I'm a little annoyed that that doesn't come back clearly.
Like is that note just still sitting on her dresser and she's just stupid or was it discarded?
It must have been discarded.
We never explicitly find out and it's so annoying because it is such a big thing.
But I feel like the note kind of misses the point because like note or not, his entire
(18:11):
court saw him leave with her.
Exactly.
And he writes this note and we do like when he writes it, we get what the note says and
it's just like your faithful husband or something.
And he goes to the thought process of should I mention Reka?
No, I'm not going to do that.
But like, she'll know.
She'll know what I mean.
Like what?
Right.
Okay.
(18:31):
Like if you have to ask, maybe you should be a little bit more explicit, dude.
Exactly.
So the more they argue, the more cams weather gifts get out of control and eventually lightning
strikes and breaks through the glass ceiling causing winter to die for cam to protect her.
She immediately tells him to get off of her to not to pretend to care about her safety.
She accuses him of being just like her father, only worse because at least her father never
(18:54):
hid his contempt for her.
She struggles and bonks her head against his somehow and he tries to like look at it to
make sure she's not bleeding and she's like, I'm fine.
A little bruise on my head won't make me unable to bear children, but you not fucking me will.
So like, I don't know what your intention is there, which I did love that.
But then I don't love what happens next.
Yeah, because this turns into sex somehow.
(19:18):
That's where like there you use the word their animal magnetism.
I'm like, but I'm not convinced.
Right.
But it's I use animal magnetism because like they they are described as having like physical
reactions to each other.
But it's not like like cam does not want to have sex like no at the start of this interaction
(19:40):
because she's mad.
But eventually like winter like kisses her neck enough, I guess to like do that.
And like this whole time he's like, Oh, are you just mad because I didn't have sex with
you?
And I'm like, that is wildly and willfully missing the point.
Yeah, I really hated that.
(20:02):
And I wasn't able to enjoy the scene, which is a pretty like closed door scene anyway.
But I hated it.
So like you're just manipulating her.
It was so it really did feel manipulative.
That's a really good way to put it.
And I didn't even put that label on it until just now.
But like he never apologizes for like his actions or doing those things.
(20:27):
Like I just and he never like allows cam to like be angry and like say her piece about
it really.
No, it just doesn't felt like it.
It felt like an effective silencing of like her perspective.
Yeah, he never acknowledges like, OK, I see how that looks to the court.
I see how that looks to you.
(20:47):
I realize that me not talking to you is cradle.
These problems like he doesn't own up to anything he's done at all ever.
No.
He's just like, oh, you want to have sex?
We can have sex.
He's like, all you had to do is ask.
And I'm like, bitch, no, is that all she had to do?
Because I don't think that's true.
I don't think that's true at all.
(21:10):
So they have sex and then afterward they like snuggle in the atrium, I guess.
So he asks her again why she came there.
And she tells them is because she thought he broke his oath.
And so she's on a reason to keep hers.
And he tells her, quote, I don't break my oaths, at least until this year is up.
The only woman to share my bed will be you and you alone.
(21:31):
And he tells us internally that the only reason he doesn't reassure her more about Reika is
because he likes the hint of jealousy.
And again, that feels incredibly manipulative to me.
Yeah, because you're just hurting her because you kind of like it.
Gross.
Yeah, it's super gross.
And I feel like this whole thing, like it just boiling, boiling all of these emotions
(21:54):
and like perspectives down to a lack or a presence of sex is extremely diminutive, right?
Or reductive, I guess is the right word.
Yes.
Because it just turns like Cam into this person that can just be supposedly easily asswaged.
And like, that's the only thing that she needs.
(22:15):
In reality, what she wants is companionship and acceptance.
And like, I still don't think that that's actually resolved in this book.
No, not as far as I've read.
I don't see that at all.
Like you get a little bit closer, I guess, but they just so willfully don't talk to
each other that we don't actually get that.
Yeah.
So that felt a little gross.
(22:39):
So Winter goes on to ask her why she kept coming once she knew what was in there.
And this is the part where she says that she was looking for the same thing that Winter
was when he built it, which is love.
She admits that she's never had that or really known what it was like to be a part of a family.
And that's why I think she came back so often because she was pretending what it would be
like to feel that.
(22:59):
Yeah.
Oh, it reminds me of Harry when he finds the mirror of Erisad and he just goes there every
night.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly that.
Also, way to pull that name out of your ass.
I would have been like that one mirror that I don't know where that I don't know where
that came from.
It just popped my head and I was like, yeah, I got this shit.
(23:23):
So Winter goes on to say that he made this place for his brother and that they both actually
used to carve ice sculptures, as we know from the prologue.
But specifically, he wanted his brothers to remember their parents, which is why he carved
so many different like scenes with the four of them.
Cam then asks him to tell her about his family and he does.
As they spend the day like that, Winter realizes that his brother, Garrick, likely would have
(23:44):
liked Cam very, very much.
Oh.
The next day, Winter feels energized because he got his rocks off.
Gross.
He also feels emboldened to do right by his wife.
So he goes to where he knows she'll be lunching with the rest of the ladies at court.
He observes their interaction for a moment before entering and can tell that Cam is being
(24:05):
isolated by much of the court.
He tells us, quote, Cam's lovely expressive face was drawn in a blank mask, all her bright
vitality and passion tamped down and hidden away, leaving a lifeless wooden character
of Wind's wild summer rose.
Yeah, dude, you did that.
Right.
And he still doesn't own it.
Even in this inner monologue, he doesn't own any of that.
(24:27):
Right.
He does come close to it at the end of it.
So he says, well, he barges into the room and invites her to go riding with him, surprising
everyone in the room, including Cam.
And internally, he resolves that, quote, his queen, who had been an outcast in her own
home all her life, would not be an outcast in his.
And that his disgraceful lack of care for her ended today.
(24:47):
So he at least acknowledges it internally, but he never even apologizes to Cam for it.
No, which would have gone a long way.
At least he was acknowledged a little bit, but I wish he acknowledged it to her.
Yeah.
So they go riding alone, despite Valak's objections.
They find the countryside covered in snow from their storm, from when they were fighting
(25:10):
and having sex.
Grr.
And it causes Cam to ask about avalanches.
And Winter tells her that his people manage them even without his weather gifts.
Blah, blah.
It's just a fact of life.
So they end up stopping in a pub in a town that Cam knows despises her.
But Winter makes a show of being generous and enjoying Cam's company, and she realizes
(25:32):
as they leave that he's doing this on purpose.
To show them like, hey, I like her, you should too.
Exactly.
Like this is my queen and is your queen too.
Which is cool, but that would have been better if you had done that three months ago.
Truly.
So when they're done eating, instead of heading back to the palace, they keep heading away
(25:53):
from it because Winter wants to show Cam something.
And they end up at a pond with a frozen waterfall.
Cam recognizes the place from Winter's sculpture garden and is exceedingly touched that he
brought her there.
We learn that it's near a hunting lodge that his family used when they were alive.
Winter proceeds to teach Cam how to ice skate so that she can see the cave behind the waterfall
(26:14):
for herself.
And this is an incredibly long scene that I wish I didn't read because it's just boring.
It's so long.
It's like 20 pages of ice skating.
Well, because we're literally walked through like Winter teaching somebody who has never
ice skated before in her life how to be on skates and then use them.
(26:35):
And I'm just like, I want to die.
This is awful.
It was horrible.
This is such a part that I was like, this book doesn't need to be this long.
Yeah.
A lot of editing could have really helped this scene.
It's not even that endearing.
Like it is for the first page and then I'm just like, okay, I got it.
(26:55):
I got it.
Let's go.
Yeah.
So during this exchange, Cam asks about Elka and whether Winter wishes that Cam was more
like Elka.
And Winter vehemently says no.
It's here that he also finally tells Cam that he doesn't say Rekha in a romantic light
at all and never has that she's just a friend.
(27:18):
He also tells Cam that she has always been much more than a friend ever since the first
time that he saw her dressed up as a maid.
He admits that Cam's father thought that he was giving him the daughter that Winter wanted
the least, but in reality, he was giving him the daughter that he wanted the most.
Aw, which like she doesn't fully believe him, but we know that's true because that
(27:39):
was in her monologue.
So I liked that he said it.
I liked that he said it too.
And that I guess is the closest thing we're ever going to get to an apology from him.
But I was glad that he at least admitted that like, hey, I do actually like you.
Yeah.
And I liked you from the start.
Yeah.
So when Cam finally feels confident enough, she goes over to the cave on her own and Winter
(28:01):
tells her that this is the cave that his father hid, quote, dragon treasure inside for him
to find.
And that he did the same for his brother, Garrick, when Garrick was young.
It's here that Cam realizes that Winter would make a very good father because he would bring
the his children happiness, belonging, security and the knowledge that both their parents
loved and wanted them.
(28:24):
And she thanks Winter for bringing her there and sharing that with her.
Oh, so this is kind of weird because this is this is really the first time that they
spend any time together talking that doesn't involve sex.
And this is weird for Cam in particular because she realizes that Winter knows so little about
(28:45):
her, but he's probably the one who knows her the best in the world.
And she's like, wow.
How did I get here?
That that was such a dark like it's not a darker relation for her.
But to me, I was like, girl.
Yeah.
What?
You got to get some some friends, man.
(29:05):
You got to get some friends.
Christy doesn't count because he's your servant, man.
Like nobody that like exactly, exactly.
Hopefully your husband will keep learning about you.
But oh.
So like I said, she realizes that Winter is actually a good man, spoilers.
(29:26):
And it's the first time that she can envision a life together with him or a future that
she believes in.
On the way back, though, the bliss is kind of shattered a little bit because they have
a frustrating conversation about the war.
Cam still believes that her brother Falcon is good.
(29:48):
And obviously Winter has very different opinions about this.
He tells her about the village the Falcon used as a distraction for his escape.
And Cam says that that must be a lie.
Her blind faith is just, ugh.
I hate it so much.
And I don't know.
(30:10):
I don't know.
Maybe it's the thing that like when you're presented with information that contradicts
your beliefs, you just dig your heels in.
But I feel like she already has a question about Falcon's behavior.
And so it just takes her a little bit too long for me to be like, actually, yeah, that
tracks.
Exactly.
Yeah.
It takes too long.
(30:31):
So Winter tells her that she's a fool if she doesn't believe that that's what happens
and tells her that if Falcon ever steps foot in Winter Craig again, that Winter will personally
kill him and anybody else who offered Falcon aid.
And yes, that was kind of a threat.
Yep, sure was.
Yep, sure was.
(30:52):
This tense discussion is interrupted, though, when they come upon a village that's been
buried under an avalanche.
They immediately decide to help, even though Winter really doesn't want Camson to help
at all and to go as far away from the place as possible.
But Cam's like, no, these are my people too.
Let me help.
So they do.
So as they approach, they see a lot of people trying to like physically dig people out of
(31:13):
their homes.
But Cam is like, there's got to be a better way.
So she stands on the roof of a house and uses her weather gifts to melt the snow on the
roof of the house, which is like super efficient.
But she doesn't have to summon a storm to do this.
She just like heaps up her body and like melts the snow around her.
And it's super effective.
(31:33):
Yeah, but like, how does magic work then?
I don't know.
And I don't think she knows.
No, I don't think I don't think anybody knows.
No one knows.
So she does this several times and is able to expedite the search and rescue operation
and earn the respect of the townspeople with whom she worked.
We find out that only 21 of the 200 villagers were lost in the avalanche and that it was
(31:56):
the most successful avalanche rescue in winter Craig history.
Thanks to Cam.
Nice.
When they get back to the palace, both winter and Cam are beat.
Winter tucks Cam into bed and turns to leave, but she reaches for him and asks him to stay
for the first time.
So he does.
As winter holds her close, he admits to himself that of the people he loves, only Cam makes
(32:18):
the ice heart retreat.
He admits to himself that he fought the feeling for so long because he's terrified that Cam
will betray him just as Elka did.
But if that were to happen, it would destroy him this time.
This is also when he tells us that his wolf spirit recognizes Cam as his mate and that
when wolf spirits mate, I guess they mate for life.
But God forbid he tells her he likes her.
(32:40):
Girl, right?
Like, come on.
Like we get all of this and he just doesn't tell her and she won't tell him and it's infuriating.
Yeah.
Despite the fact that he has said over and over again that he doesn't think that she's
like capable of telling a lie convincingly or being a traitor.
So like, if you're worried about her helping her brother, you just have to keep her physically
(33:03):
away from her brother.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Anyway, in the morning, they're disturbed by Bella, who is terrified and retreats until
winter leaves.
But he's not gone for long.
I think he just gets like clothes or something because he joins Cam for tea shortly thereafter.
It's the same tea that she has every morning that we've been given to suspect that Bella
(33:26):
can't brew correctly because it's super bitter.
But as soon as winter tastes it, he becomes irate, channeling the full force of the ice
heart because he tastes it for what it is, black tansy, which we learn is also an herb
that acts essentially like Plan B.
Yoke.
Winter calls Cam deceitful and a traitor and like is almost close to killing her, but
(33:52):
it's clear.
It becomes like increasingly clear that she has no idea what's going on and quickly surmise
that Bella has been the one dosing Cam without her knowledge, which is why the tea has always
been so bitter.
Right.
But this is also one of those examples of like these people are just zero to 100 all
the time.
Yeah, like he like leaps up, freezes the tea cup, it shatters and he like literally is
(34:17):
just about to murder her.
And his eyes go wide, like he just becomes rigid.
Yeah.
And she's like, I can't even defend myself because I don't know why you're mad.
All I did was offer you some of my tea.
Yeah.
What?
Also, like this would be giving them way too much credit.
(34:40):
But if she was taking this, wouldn't she like avoid offering him the tea because she knows
he would identify it?
Well, yeah, that's that's a dead giveaway for me, right?
Yeah.
But she hands it to him.
She's like, here you go.
Let's share.
This is cute.
Have some of this shitty tea that my ladies made can't brew for shit.
Right.
(35:00):
This is stupid.
This was such a jarring scene too because when I first read it, it felt like it almost
felt like he had been shot because the reaction was so like swift and like seemingly out of
nowhere.
Like I the first time I read it, I didn't even clock that he tried the tea.
(35:21):
I clocked they tried the tea, but I thought there was like straight up poison in it and
he was going to think it was like an assassination attempt, not where I went.
Yeah.
It was very strange, very jarring.
Yeah.
It was very jarring.
So anyway, they jail Bella and question her for all she knows.
(35:41):
It comes out that she was sent by cam's father to ensure that cam would not bear a child
and eventually die, which seems like the opposite of what he would want because winter would
just come back and take a daughter that verdant actually likes.
Right.
Because like, yeah, he doesn't want.
I mean, it's just like pure hatred of cam.
But I had that question too because yeah, you just want cam dead, but you love your
(36:04):
other children.
I thought, I thought, well, and it's not that Bella was trying to, it's not like there were
other plots that we ever find out about that were geared toward killing winter.
It was just about preventing her from getting pregnant.
Exactly.
Specifically so she would die.
Specifically so she would be murdered because they all think that that's what the mercy
(36:26):
of the mountains is.
Right.
Which turns out that's not what it is anyway.
So.
Yeah.
I just didn't, I didn't understand the motivations there.
Me either.
Not, not at all.
It seemed really like just wedged in there.
(36:47):
Yeah.
Wedged is a good way to put it.
So it becomes clear that Bella has been using Falcons to communicate with Ferdinand or his
associates on this plot and Cam is struck that she didn't know that and realizes that
winter suspected her of being the spy.
No shit girl.
No shit.
The fact that she's just like, you thought I was a spy.
(37:09):
I'm like, girl.
Like of course he did.
What?
What?
So winter and Cam leave the rest of the questioning to the professionals and winter seems to be
convinced of Cam's innocence.
With Valak alone with his like inner circle, winter voices this position though Valak is
still all kinds of suspicious.
This is when it comes out that the day that Cam bled when she met Christy, she had a miscarriage.
(37:33):
Probably due to the black tansy and maybe the kick but unclear still.
Because she was still double poisoned and kicked so it's just a little confusing.
It's like the definition of kicking her when she's down.
Yeah.
Completely unnecessary.
(37:54):
This is what I'm talking about with like the damsel in distress.
Damsel in distress is so fucking hard in this book.
It just feels like a lot.
It's over and over.
Who?
No one needs to poison the girl twice and physically kick her.
Right.
In one scene.
My father hates me.
He beats me.
(38:14):
I think my husband's going to kill me.
Then my wounds are infected on the journey here and then I know my husband's going to
kill me because I don't give him a child and then I'm here and my maid is poisoning me
and then the townspeople are poisoning me and then I got kicked in the stuff like it's
just there's so much.
There's so much over and over and over and over again.
(38:38):
Kick her when she's down.
Kick her when she's down.
It's horrible.
Yeah.
And look, most of it I was here for, I'm not going to lie.
But no, I do love a good damsel in distress, but it's sort of like Jesus Christ.
Yeah.
Looked at it with a critical eye.
You're just like, excuse me.
Yes.
Anyway.
So ultimately Winter tells Valak to back off and to try to get along with Cam because
(39:00):
she is the only wife he'll ever have.
So then it's three days later and they put Bella out on the glacier to die.
As Bella faces her fate, she warns Cam that she is but one of many, but is literally
the only one who shows up in this book.
So I don't know what the fuck she's talking about.
(39:20):
I didn't know what she was talking about either.
That didn't make any sense to me.
Yeah.
Like it feels like a pretty straightforward threat and that makes sense, but I make me
believe it a little bit more because we get to the end of this book and it's like, Bella
never happened.
Exactly.
Exactly.
So as Cam and Winter head back to the palace, he tells her that Tildi had nothing to do
(39:41):
with what Bella did, which is a huge relief to Cam because she had suspected that maybe
Tildi and Bella might have been in cahoots, but that's not the case.
And then we get a whole last month of time passing.
Oh, thank God.
It was such a relief.
During this time, Cam feels happy for the first time probably in her life and even Valak
(40:04):
is trying to be sociable.
Winter and Cam are nearly inseparable and she almost admits to herself that she loves
him, but quickly remembers that she is in a political marriage and she's got a baby
to birth.
And then that makes her consider the possibility that Winter will abandon her once he has his
heir and that really crushes her mood.
Back to Winter and he gets a report of a garb spotted by a shepherd in a nearby village.
(40:27):
Winter takes it as a sign that the Ice Minions are gathering to welcome the return of their
King and God.
Okay, so are they gathering or do they just not exist when the Ice Heart isn't in a body?
I don't know.
I don't know.
And then with what happens next, where it's like they're being used or summoned, I'm
like, are they by who?
Right.
(40:48):
I was like, well, clearly they're being drawn to the Ice Heart, right?
Yeah.
Guys.
But like, where did, guys, right?
Right, guys, right?
It was very confusing to me.
These next two scenes were chaos.
These next two scenes don't need to be here.
Nope.
Nope, not at all.
So the first one is that we see Cam and Christy climbing a fucking tree in the middle of nowhere
(41:11):
to get a view of literally nothing.
And they hear a screech and Christy is like, oh God, it's the garb.
Don't make a sound.
We got to go.
And then they flee back to the castle.
And that's it.
It was, and it's just there to again make the damsel be in distress.
She didn't need to be out there at all.
There was.
(41:32):
We didn't need to be there.
We didn't need to see this.
It doesn't change anything that happens next, except that it gives Winter more to worry
about because she was there, but now she's fine.
Right.
Also, what I think is interesting is like, we see her, no, never mind.
I think about her later with the garments.
(41:52):
But like, because Christy is like, you have to run.
I'll protect you.
And like, so she gets down and they leave.
But I felt like Christy stopped existing until they were safe.
Yeah.
No, I agree.
I was like, did you abandon him?
Or like, is he right behind you?
He's there.
He's there the whole time.
He's just really, he's just really stealthy.
(42:13):
Yeah.
So they're, they're like fleeing back to the palace.
And I should mention that they hear three long blasts of a horn that signals that the
king has called for a great hunt.
And the great hunt is specifically to get rid of the garb.
So during this great hunt, Cam, of course, has to stay behind.
Winter tells her it's because she will be a distraction to him if she attends.
(42:34):
It's incredibly dangerous.
And even though Galacia will go because she's got the icebeers, she is trained to hunt the
garb.
Winter makes Cam promise to stay at the palace and she does.
I wonder how long that'll last.
Four seconds because she's a dumb, dummy.
Yeah.
I mean, for somebody who the keeping promises and being like an oath, like non breaker is
(42:56):
kind of a big theme in this book.
And for somebody who sees herself as somebody who keeps her word, she doesn't.
Ever.
Often.
Nope.
Nope.
Not at all.
So winter and the hunting party depart and after four days, Cam is restless with Lady
Mel.
She learns that the great hunt usually lasts for a couple of weeks.
(43:19):
And Lady Mel goes on to tell her that only single women ever ride with the hunt since
men fiercely protect their wives.
Okay.
She also says though Kings have died in the great hunt before, it's unlikely winter will
fall to the garb because of the ice heart to which I ask.
Okay.
So why are there great hunts in the past?
(43:39):
Is it only when there's an ice heart?
If so, how many people have drunk the ice heart that aren't the, the King right?
I had that question too.
Like, cause it sounds like, okay.
So she says what there's been three or five.
She just said it, but there's been a few in her lifetime, but the last one was when the
ice giant giants came when winter was like 16.
(44:00):
So he didn't have the ice heart.
So who had the ice heart?
Or are they just around always and attracted to the ice heart?
Well, and if, if the ice heart is slowly turning you into the master of these beings, why can't
like, at what point can you command them?
Exactly.
Like, if they're your minions, why are they out to kill you and everything else?
(44:22):
Right.
It felt very, here's this problem and I want to make it make sense, but like, it, it doesn't
really tie together when the garb could just be their own threat.
It's just, yeah, it was very hand wavy.
It's, and it feels like the plot equivalent of the incest spaghetti.
Like, we're going to weave all these things together, but they don't need to be connected.
(44:47):
Yes.
Very, very that.
So back to winter who's tracking the garb with his men, but they haven't found them
yet.
They get emissive from the palace that suggests the garb didn't come here on their own.
Rather someone lured them there.
And I just feel like this is a great example of like scenes that I don't need to see because
there's like a lot of detail in this scene about how they're tracking them and they're
(45:09):
moving back and forth and I'm like, I don't care.
No, I don't care.
I don't care.
Any of that.
None of it matters.
Yeah.
No.
So back with Cam, she's received a note.
This note tells her that the great hunt is an ambush to kill the king and that she should
meet this person at someplace called the old mill if she wants to help.
Where's the old mill?
(45:29):
I don't, I couldn't fucking tell you.
I couldn't tell you.
Cam thinks this note is from Christie for some reason, but when she goes to meet the
person at this old mill place, she finds Rekha instead.
She's immediately on edge because it's Rekha, but Rekha somehow convinces her that she's
actually just concerned about the king and she's even about to leave Cam behind, but
(45:52):
ultimately Cam's like, no, I'll go with you.
Rekha just played her like a fucking fiddle.
Like, oh, fine.
That was so easy.
That was so easy.
It was so easy and like, why would you go without your guards?
But also the other thing I don't understand is it's been established previously that Cam
is always followed by guards.
I always know where she is, but this note says like meet me by the place we went last
(46:13):
week and she's like, how no one else would possibly know about that because only Christie
knows.
Everyone fucking knows because you're being watched all the time.
Nothing is secret.
But at this point, she knows that.
I know.
Or she's at least told us that she knows that.
But then she doesn't do the thing and it doesn't make any sense to me.
I'd be like, the king is in danger, so let's go just the two of us with no guards to try
(46:36):
and find him.
Yeah.
No, make that make sense, right?
Yeah.
And even if that was the case, like in the note, they're like, oh, the priestesses are
going to try to blah, blah, blah.
So you think Valak is just going to sit by and let that happen?
Exactly.
Exactly.
And then when she's there and it is Reika and Reika's like, fine, I'll just go without
you because I'm the only one who loves him or whatever.
(46:57):
And she's like, okay, we'll go together.
Like, oh, God, it's just so easy.
It's just you're a child.
Cam, what are you fucking doing?
What are you going to do?
You're going to show up and fight these people off?
You can barely control your magic.
You're going to be a liability.
Exactly.
And you'll find someone who can actually help because Reika is not the one.
(47:18):
Like even if this note was valid, which like spoiler alert, it's not, she's not the one.
Why would you trust her?
No.
But they go and they ride for a full day and a night trying to find the Garm hunting
party.
But Reika is leading the way since Cam doesn't know the first thing about hunting.
But once they get to a particular location, Reika tells Cam that it's time to die.
(47:41):
And she attacks Cam with what sounds like a gardening hoe.
That's what I was picturing.
But she like claws her on the back in the hind quarters of the horse because they're
still on horses.
She like attacks her while she's on the horse.
It just feels like it wasn't very well thought out.
Like, no.
And it was such like, I have a big head and little arms.
(48:02):
I'm wondering what this plan was.
Also it's such like a villain reveal because they're like talking about the Garm and Reika
is something like, they'll find you when they smell the blood.
Bam!
Like, it...
Girl, what?
Yeah, it was very overdramatic.
And she hits the horse more than she hits Cam.
(48:22):
It was just terribly done.
Like, why not do it?
Because they're both on horses.
She doesn't even get her off the fucking horse.
No, like stop for like a snack.
Get off the horses.
Like, and because this book gives us too much detail.
They stopped earlier to water the horses.
They stopped like 20 times and got off the horses.
Why didn't she attack then?
(48:42):
Right.
Perfect opportunity.
So Cam takes off on her horse and ends up at the lake where Winter taught her how to
ice skate with the cave.
And her horse dies somehow.
And then the Garmer there.
Hi.
Hi, it's me.
And then we're back with Winter and they've gotten word that the Garm have abruptly changed
course.
(49:03):
How?
I don't know.
But they're following them.
And this was where it was like every page would switch perspectives but without a page
break.
And it was, I hated it.
I hated it.
Yeah.
It was very Scooby-Doo.
Yeah.
Because so we're with Cam, we're back with Winter and now we're back with Cam again.
And we get the description of the Garm finally.
(49:25):
It's described as being as big as a horse with glowing red eyes, shaggy tail?
A shaggy tail?
An earless head.
And then like it doesn't have fur like it does on its tail.
It has whiskers all along its body that it uses to sense.
And of course razor sharp teeth.
It also drools blue slime and has toxic breath that traps its prey with freezing cold immobility.
(49:48):
Ew.
Super fun.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Ew.
It was wild.
So she runs from this beast and she ends up climbing a tree trying to get free but of
course the thing climbs trees too.
And because we're in a Scooby-Doo episode, we're back to Winter who's sprinting toward
where they think the Garm is.
(50:08):
They come upon a crevasse in the glacia and there's a storm brewing.
And because of the storm, Winter realizes that Cam must be the reason that the Garm
have changed course and that makes him frantic.
So he spurs his horse to jump the crevasse and he makes it but the glacia crumbles underneath
(50:29):
him and the crevasse widens, leaving his men to find another way around.
So it's just Winter.
By himself, of course.
Did I lose you?
Back to Cam.
No, no, no.
I'm sorry.
I lost my place in my notes.
I was like, there's so many back to Cam, back to Cam, back to Cam.
(50:50):
Because it's just like which one are we at?
That's how I felt every time.
Yeah.
That's how I felt reading this whole chapter of like where am I?
Yeah.
Well, Anna, I just feel like you could have kept some of those parts together so that
it was a little less jarring.
Exactly.
But nope.
(51:12):
So we're back with Cam again, who's still climbing for her life, but a strong gust of
wind from her own storm makes her lose her footing.
And that gives her an idea to use the wind to help her jump from tree to tree, which
she does until she doesn't and misses and falls to the ground after smacking a few branches
along the way.
So now she's on the ground, more broken and more injured.
(51:34):
She knows she has to find some shelter from the garb who is quickly descending the tree
after her.
She makes her way to the ice cave behind the waterfall and wedges herself into it, hopefully
out of the garb's reach.
Something I did like in here is because it is so like Scooby-Doo and chaotic, but she
has this external monologue where she's like, you fucking climb, do you?
What kind of wolf climbs trees?
(51:55):
And just pure like, what is happening?
And I thought that was entertaining.
I loved that too, because at some point she's like, you've got to be joking.
Exactly.
And I thought that was really great.
Yeah.
I really liked the candor there.
And it was so much, much needed like comic relief because this was the seventh time her
life has been in danger.
(52:15):
And this is the time that I feel like it's the most dire, with the exception of the beginning,
but yeah.
Yeah, truly.
So she's wedged in this cave, the garb is coming after her.
And just before she finds out whether she's out of reach of the garb, it twitches and
dies.
And when it's dragged out, she realizes Winter has saved her.
(52:35):
She's so relieved that she starts crying and Winter starts tending to her wounds as best
he can.
But the shock is setting in.
And so Cam can barely speak when he asks her how she got so injured.
She does manage to say though that Rhaegha told her someone was trying to kill Winter
and Rhaegha is the one who attacked her.
Rhaegha is the problem.
Can we finally admit it?
(52:56):
Winter?
Yeah, brother.
People have been telling you this all along.
I know, God.
And yet.
And yet.
So Winter asks her why she came to save him, but before she can tell him that she loves
him, she realizes that there's another garb behind him about to attack.
Actually two garb, which is odd because they're supposed to be solitary killers.
(53:18):
I was like, but they're clearly not here.
They're clearly not.
Okay.
But also I have, if they're solitary killer, I thought they were like basically the dogs
of the frost giants.
So like, so are they solitary?
I don't know.
And that's the kind of thing of like, don't tell me that.
Yeah.
Cause I didn't need to know that.
Cause now you're just getting more and more questions.
(53:39):
That's like, then why are they all here?
Or if they're just drawn to the ice heart, then like, wouldn't there be more than one
anyway?
And how many are there?
Blood is the ice heart.
If you have the ice heart, why can't you just say heal and like, and the whole thing?
Exactly.
So winter tries to fight these two off, but he's eventually overpowered and knows that
(54:00):
death is imminent.
But just before the garb can make the final killing blow, Cam throws a rock at the garb
to distract them.
And then it comes after her, both of them.
So Cam decides to try to channel lightning to her advantage because remember it's storming
outside.
So she does that and fries both of the remaining garb and heals herself in the process, which
(54:21):
is handy.
But the use of her weather gifts has drained her to the point that she's like almost unconscious.
And so she crawls back to winter's unconscious form, lies on top of him and succumbs to the
darkness herself.
I get a little tired of her draining herself and passing out.
Like I get it, but if I understand the rules of the magic more, I think it would make me
(54:43):
feel better.
But instead it just feels like, again, let's kick her while she's down.
Yeah, because she passes out during other things that aren't using her magic that feel
like they shouldn't make her pass out.
And so now I don't know, like, is she strong or is she effectively going up a flight of
(55:03):
stairs and passing out?
Exactly.
And it kind of explains her illness from the beginning because she's being poisoned
and now she's not.
But we just don't know enough about it.
And I'm just like, okay, of course she's unconscious again.
Right.
And this is really unfortunate because, like, as we'll learn, finding both of them unconscious
(55:24):
without a story to tell is bad for Cam.
Yeah.
So it's even more of the damsel in distressing.
So something to look forward to.
Because that's where you're going to end, isn't it?
Yeah, that's where I'm going to end.
They are unconscious in the darkness.
(55:45):
Cool, cool, cool, cool.
And yeah, cool, cool, cool, cool.
So yeah, that's what we're going to end part three, part four, we'll cover the rest of
the book and our ratings.
So stay tuned for that.
So yeah, that's part three of The Winter King by C.L. Wilson.
Let us know what you thought on the socials.
You can find us on Facebook, Goodreads, TikTok, and Instagram at Spice Readers Pod.
(56:08):
And if you like our content and want more, consider becoming a patron where we release
Patreon exclusive episodes on our off weeks.
So until next time, we'll see ya.
Bye.
A
Hey friends, just a quick reminder before we get into today's episode, come join us
(00:04):
over on our Patreon.
That's where we release bonus episodes every other week and we've already got over 20
episodes from 2023 that you can download and binge right now for as little as $3 a month.
We've covered so many good books there, Haunting Adeline, Chateau, Gotha Canna, and so many
more.
That's also where we'll cover any books in a series we continue, so Serpent in Dove,
(00:25):
High Mountain Court, Serpent in the Wings of Night.
You can continue those series with us on Patreon right now.
Finally, as a patron, we let you know what we're going to read every month so you can
read along with us if that's your jam.
Anyway, that's all from me on to today's episode.
Also, I mentioned this last night because it was in my notes.
(00:45):
And this is like, I just have to say it to you, I don't think it could be the cold
open I guess, I don't know.
But in the scene, in the tent, literally where we started part two.
Yeah.
And he's wearing his loincloth and he takes his loincloth off.
She looks at him and his pubes are straight.
They're straight.
Like a wolf's belt.
(01:07):
I can't picture that.
And I had to say thanks.
I was looking at my notes for today and I forgot that those notes were yesterday and
I was just like, ew.
Ew.
Welcome to Your Saved Space, the podcast your partner, friends, parents, whoever thinks is
(01:30):
dirty.
Don't have time to read books, want to understand the jokes in the tics-hacks, we got you fam.
We're the spice traders and we deal in spicy books.
I'm Katie and I need it to make sense.
I'm Liz and I'm hypercritical.
As always, we start every episode with three things.
The first is a generic trigger warning.
We even find specific triggers for this book in our show notes, so please check those out.
(01:51):
Also we do use foul language and talk a lot about sex.
If you have sensitivity to any of this, please give this episode a skip.
Secondly, we talk about books.
The whole book, nothing but the books that helped me got us.
If you plan to read this book and don't want something spoiled right now, don't listen
to this episode.
Lastly, we acknowledge that a good book can hit you at the wrong time.
The views expressed in our discussion are our opinion and we absolutely don't want
(02:13):
to diminish the work and the talent of the authors in our community.
Outside, we have some notes.
What are we talking about today, Katie?
Well, we're still on The Winter King by C.L. Wilson.
(02:36):
This is part three.
I promise we're almost done.
This is part three of four.
And we will be covering chapters 16 through 21 today.
So let's get into it.
Let's do it.
When we last left off, Cam had just basically had a miscarriage and she's recovering, right?
(02:57):
So while she's recovering, she sees very little of her husband, Winter.
She thinks that this is going to be rough already.
She sees so little of him that she thinks he might be stepping out with Reika and so she
follows him and finds that he spends a lot of time in the atrium, the forbidden zone,
(03:19):
if you will remember, sometimes even all night.
One night after she's followed him and she's fallen asleep, kind of like waiting for him
to come out, he finds her and asks if she's satisfied her curiosity enough as he carries
her back to her room.
I don't know anything.
She asks what he's doing in the atrium and he tells her nothing that concerns her and
(03:42):
makes her swear not to enter or send someone on her behalf to enter.
She begrudgingly promises not to enter the atrium and resigns herself to another celibate
night as he leaves her alone in her bed.
It's the miscommunication trope at its finest.
We do find out what's in the atrium.
It's stupid that he made it so wrapped in mystery and it's also stupid that she's not
(04:06):
just like, hey, it bothers me because I think you're cheating on me and I would like you
to sleep with me and said like they just don't talk.
Yeah, they just don't.
They don't communicate very well.
He's like, it's forbidden and she's like, okay.
This is also the prime example of like how they just don't know how to talk to each other
outside of having sex.
Yeah, and that continues for most, I mean this part kind of changes a little bit near
(04:29):
the end, but yeah.
So when Winter goes back to his own bedroom, he admits that the way he feels about Cam
has too much power over him and he beats off to the thought of her.
Just go back in her room.
You're literally okay.
It's fine.
Right.
So after that, Winter spends even less time with Cam, not even showing his face at dinner.
(04:54):
This causes the court to gossip that Cam has fallen out of favor, which galls Cam to no
end.
So she starts finding excuses to be away from the palace too.
Specifically, she and Christie ride all over the place.
Cam tries to befriend the Winter folk without much luck and she's talking to Christie about
that and Christie's like, well, you could try dressing like them and maybe you would
have more luck.
(05:14):
He says, quote, I'm just saying if you dress and act like a foreigner, you shouldn't be
surprised that they treat you like one.
Fair point.
Yeah, it's valid.
And she's been stubbornly holding on to her clothing, which to be clear, like bright
jewel tones and everyone else wears like greys and whites and creams.
Yeah.
And like, they already know that you're different.
They already know that you're from the place that they all hate.
(05:37):
It's like going to a foreign country that hates America and just wearing all American
flags.
Yeah.
Wow.
That's such poor taste.
I know.
I'm sorry.
So she takes this advice and when she does, Winter notices immediately.
(06:00):
From his perspective, rather than make her blend in more, it sets off her coloring against
the pale wash of his people.
So she's like dark haired and mysterious against all of these milk toasty blonde people, which
is fine, but it did confuse me a little bit because Winter is tan.
Well, I think he's just not white, but like, is everyone else white and he's just not
(06:22):
white and there's no other non-white people.
It's just these two.
It's true.
Okay, this is awkward.
It's super awkward.
Yeah.
No, that's honestly a fair point.
And I kind of forgot that he was described as a person of color because like, especially
(06:44):
like toward the back half of this book, it definitely like skews toward like Scandinavia
adjacent.
Yes.
Like maybe this happens in Norway kind of thing.
Very much.
And so whenever we see his tan skin, I'm like, oh yeah.
Oh, what?
You're the color of brown butter.
I get that.
(07:05):
I get that.
But then you have white silver hair.
Nobody else looks like you.
No, no.
So she does this, right?
And he's like, man, she's attractive.
But the six week deadline where she's supposed to heal and he's not supposed to fuck her
(07:27):
passes, but winter doesn't go to Cam.
He's desperately trying to keep his distance.
But he's not getting laid.
He's certainly in literally icy in meetings with his people.
And so Valak's finally like, will you please get laid already and like do us all a favor.
I did think this conversation was so funny because Valak says that and he's like, I thought
(07:50):
you didn't trust her and Valak's like, I don't.
But like you're a pain in the ass.
And that's what she's here for, right?
Like go fuck her and put a baby in her.
That's what that's why we're here.
Like what are you doing?
What is the problem?
So Galacia is also in this conversation and adds that quote truth be told she was probably
(08:11):
healthy enough within a week of the poisoning.
But stupid me, I thought you might use the time to get to know your wife, not avoid her
like the plague.
I love Galacia.
She's my favorite character.
She's amazing.
Cause like, yeah, what's wrong with you?
Truly.
And she goes on to add that the court has noticed winter's shunning of Cam and it has
made her life a misery.
So like good job, buddy.
(08:32):
What were you intending to do?
Right.
And like also what did you think was going to happen?
You know they're all watching you.
They're certainly watching her.
So for you to be snubbing her for now two months, it's a problem.
Galacia and Valak are like brother.
Like stop your being ridiculous and also your payment the ass and a jerk.
So like, can we get past this and winter's like, I have more important things to do.
(08:54):
I need to get these preparations for an invasion sorted.
And like after that's done, I'll fix things with Cam.
And so his intention in this is to visit the newly refurbished towers to make sure they're
satisfactory, but that's going to take like weeks and Valak and Galacia are like, good
plan.
It's so, it's so stupid.
I was supposed to taking like, I don't know, 20 minutes to fix this.
(09:15):
You're going to put it off for more weeks.
Truly.
So just before winter leaves this meeting, Galacia tells him to give Cam a chance because
she's seen no sign of treachery in her.
Winter ruminates to himself that whether he's enchanted or not, when he returns from inspecting
the towers, his separation from his wife will end.
Okay.
Great.
(09:36):
Cool.
Before he sets off, Rekha shows up and is like, Oh my king, will you see me as far as my
country house cause my dad is dying?
And this is where like Valak and Rekha are related and Valak just doesn't give a fuck
about this guy.
No, who would be his uncle and like you're close to your cousins, but don't give a shit
(09:57):
about their parent.
Like, okay, are you related or not?
Why are we pretending?
Yeah.
No, exactly.
So winter's like, I know this is a bad idea, but I can't just like say no.
So let me just go run and leave a note for Cam and maybe that will make it okay.
Which of course it doesn't because the whole court sees Rekha leave with winter and Cam
(10:19):
never gets this fucking note and I don't know what happened to it.
Okay.
I wanted to ask if I had missed something because and we don't go back to it.
Like he says, like, did you get my note later?
And she says what note?
And like, we just never go back to it.
I think Bella moved it, hit it, got rid of it, but I don't know why she would.
(10:40):
Yeah, I have to assume that Bella is like, because when when Cam gets back to her room,
Bella is like stoking the fire.
So like maybe it's supposed to be implied that Bella like burned the note.
But yeah, but I wish we got confirmation of that when Bella's treachery is revealed
later.
I have a hard time believing that.
(11:00):
Yeah, because it's unclear.
Like it could have come out.
It could have come out later.
Like why didn't Bella just admit that as part of her like plot or something like, oh, I
wanted to start a fight, whatever.
Right, exactly.
So anyway, uh, so Cam comes back to her room and she learns that Reka left with winter
(11:24):
from Bella.
And this news makes her eat dinner in her rooms.
She's like angry and hurt and her emotions are getting the best of her to the point
where she's like, I have to like go underground.
Otherwise the storm that I'm creating is going to kill people.
So she goes down to the cellars to dissipate the storm that the mood has conjured.
She wallows to herself quote, what is wrong with her that no one wanted her.
(11:48):
She was aware of her shortcomings, her short temper, the violent nature of her weather
gift, her need to rebel against authority.
But despite those drawbacks, she had always tried to live a good life, be a good person.
A person Roland Solgius would have been proud to call a friend, honorable, loyal, trustworthy,
brave.
And she was the abomination her father had called her.
Maybe everyone else could see the evil in her and that's why they reviled her.
(12:10):
That's made me so sad.
I know.
It's very sad, but I find even in this a little bit of juvenality because she's like a person
Roland Solgius would have been proud to call a friend.
At this point, Roland is like a bedtime story almost.
Like, I know every time she references them, I'm like, you're a five year old.
(12:35):
Yeah.
But it is really sad.
And I don't know.
It this scratched the damsel in distress like thing for me.
Yeah, it did for me too.
So after she's done crying, she resolves that she's done being docile and trying to play
nice and she goes to break into the atrium.
(12:56):
I love her like, well, if you're not going to keep your vows and I'm not going to either.
I love that too because she's like, okay, fine, you can break your promise.
I'll break all of mine.
We don't have to be friends.
That's cool.
Which I love that.
So once she's inside, rather than like state secrets or something, she finds a whole bunch
(13:17):
of ice sculptures like an entire forest of ice sculptures with like little vignettes
of like a family here and there and cams like, dude, what in the actual fuck?
This is not at all what I expected to find here.
And so she just starts wandering around and she begins to realize that the people, the
vignettes that she sees are all the same people and she comes to realize that it's winter
(13:41):
in his family.
And I, I forgot until like not even in this part, but later, but that this is where the
prologue starts, like we see winter and his brother in here making ice sculptures.
Yeah, I did like that callback.
And then I forgot that that was a hobby they had.
I did too.
So after that first time, she goes back like a lot over the two weeks that winter is gone.
(14:04):
Cam finds errands for Christie to do so he doesn't get suspicious of where she spends
her time either.
And she has all but removed herself from court.
She's like obsessive.
She is.
I think if she could sleep in that place, she would.
Yeah, she would.
And that obsession was a little bit strange to me.
Like just how intensive it was.
Like she would go to sleep just waiting until she could wake up and go back, which doesn't
(14:27):
matter.
But I was like, this is a lot.
She kind of speaks to that later.
And I don't think it's giving anything away now to say that like the thing that she finds
in this room that I think she can't help herself, but go back to is like a depiction of a loving
family.
And I think she's like trying to convince herself that she could be a part of that family, like
(14:49):
in a pretend world.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's just sad.
Very sad.
Because like this is funny that it'll come up, but she like brings like she packs a lunch
to have with the pretend ice family.
Yeah.
She like has a picnic with the ice sculpture family, which like, oh girl.
(15:11):
I know.
She's like, I'd rather be with these ice sculptures than literally any of the real humans around
me.
Oh, man.
That's rough.
It's dark in here.
So when winter returns, his men tell him that three Falcons were seen around the palace,
but they haven't sourced who they made contact with.
And the insinuation here is that winter Craig men don't use Falcons because that one dude
(15:37):
named Falcon fucked a lot of shit up.
So it must be from traders.
Obviously.
It's so stupid.
So winter's like cool.
Where's my wife and his men are like, well, you said to watch, but not intervene.
And she's in the atrium and he's like, what?
(16:00):
The one place I told her not to go.
How quadruple.
He goes beast mode.
And he goes full base mode.
Beauty in the beast mode.
Yeah.
So he goes to the atrium in a fury and accuses Cam of spying for her brother.
He accuses her of breaking her oath and that he should have known better since she comes
from a long line of liars.
(16:20):
This causes cams anger to fire and she starts summoning a storm outside.
She accuses him of being a ruthless murderer all because Elka preferred Falcon to him.
And after being married to him, she can't blame her.
He's like, I cared for you just fine.
And she's like, oh, let me count the ways.
Quote, to what care exactly do you refer?
You mean the way you ignore me for weeks on end that care or the way that you have made
(16:44):
it clear to every member of your court that I am to be ostracized and treated as a source
of pathetic amusement?
I mean, yeah, girl.
I do like the way that she fights for herself in the scene.
I do too.
Like this is, this is one of the things that I really like about this book where we get
such a damsel in distress, but she's not weak by any means.
(17:07):
Like she kind of reminds me of Meg Hercules and the I'm a damsel.
I'm distressed.
Get out of my way.
Yes.
I love that comparison, especially the longer that she's away from her father.
She really doesn't take any shit.
Yes, which I adore.
Yeah.
So she says all this stuff, but winter doesn't take ownership of the way that he's treated
(17:27):
her and gets back to her not being allowed on the atrium.
And I was like, Oh yeah, because of all the state secrets that are hidden here.
Cool.
Cool.
Cool.
He's like, look, you betrayed my trust.
You promised not to come in here.
And she's like, yeah, and you promise not to whore around with Reka and yet here we
are.
And he's like, I left you a note and she's like, what note, dude?
I didn't get a fucking note.
(17:48):
I didn't get a fucking note.
And like I said before, I'm a little annoyed that that doesn't come back clearly.
Like is that note just still sitting on her dresser and she's just stupid or was it discarded?
It must have been discarded.
We never explicitly find out and it's so annoying because it is such a big thing.
But I feel like the note kind of misses the point because like note or not, his entire
(18:11):
court saw him leave with her.
Exactly.
And he writes this note and we do like when he writes it, we get what the note says and
it's just like your faithful husband or something.
And he goes to the thought process of should I mention Reka?
No, I'm not going to do that.
But like, she'll know.
She'll know what I mean.
Like what?
Right.
Okay.
(18:31):
Like if you have to ask, maybe you should be a little bit more explicit, dude.
Exactly.
So the more they argue, the more cams weather gifts get out of control and eventually lightning
strikes and breaks through the glass ceiling causing winter to die for cam to protect her.
She immediately tells him to get off of her to not to pretend to care about her safety.
She accuses him of being just like her father, only worse because at least her father never
(18:54):
hid his contempt for her.
She struggles and bonks her head against his somehow and he tries to like look at it to
make sure she's not bleeding and she's like, I'm fine.
A little bruise on my head won't make me unable to bear children, but you not fucking me will.
So like, I don't know what your intention is there, which I did love that.
But then I don't love what happens next.
Yeah, because this turns into sex somehow.
(19:18):
That's where like there you use the word their animal magnetism.
I'm like, but I'm not convinced.
Right.
But it's I use animal magnetism because like they they are described as having like physical
reactions to each other.
But it's not like like cam does not want to have sex like no at the start of this interaction
(19:40):
because she's mad.
But eventually like winter like kisses her neck enough, I guess to like do that.
And like this whole time he's like, Oh, are you just mad because I didn't have sex with
you?
And I'm like, that is wildly and willfully missing the point.
Yeah, I really hated that.
(20:02):
And I wasn't able to enjoy the scene, which is a pretty like closed door scene anyway.
But I hated it.
So like you're just manipulating her.
It was so it really did feel manipulative.
That's a really good way to put it.
And I didn't even put that label on it until just now.
But like he never apologizes for like his actions or doing those things.
(20:27):
Like I just and he never like allows cam to like be angry and like say her piece about
it really.
No, it just doesn't felt like it.
It felt like an effective silencing of like her perspective.
Yeah, he never acknowledges like, OK, I see how that looks to the court.
I see how that looks to you.
(20:47):
I realize that me not talking to you is cradle.
These problems like he doesn't own up to anything he's done at all ever.
No.
He's just like, oh, you want to have sex?
We can have sex.
He's like, all you had to do is ask.
And I'm like, bitch, no, is that all she had to do?
Because I don't think that's true.
I don't think that's true at all.
(21:10):
So they have sex and then afterward they like snuggle in the atrium, I guess.
So he asks her again why she came there.
And she tells them is because she thought he broke his oath.
And so she's on a reason to keep hers.
And he tells her, quote, I don't break my oaths, at least until this year is up.
The only woman to share my bed will be you and you alone.
(21:31):
And he tells us internally that the only reason he doesn't reassure her more about Reika is
because he likes the hint of jealousy.
And again, that feels incredibly manipulative to me.
Yeah, because you're just hurting her because you kind of like it.
Gross.
Yeah, it's super gross.
And I feel like this whole thing, like it just boiling, boiling all of these emotions
(21:54):
and like perspectives down to a lack or a presence of sex is extremely diminutive, right?
Or reductive, I guess is the right word.
Yes.
Because it just turns like Cam into this person that can just be supposedly easily asswaged.
And like, that's the only thing that she needs.
(22:15):
In reality, what she wants is companionship and acceptance.
And like, I still don't think that that's actually resolved in this book.
No, not as far as I've read.
I don't see that at all.
Like you get a little bit closer, I guess, but they just so willfully don't talk to
each other that we don't actually get that.
Yeah.
So that felt a little gross.
(22:39):
So Winter goes on to ask her why she kept coming once she knew what was in there.
And this is the part where she says that she was looking for the same thing that Winter
was when he built it, which is love.
She admits that she's never had that or really known what it was like to be a part of a family.
And that's why I think she came back so often because she was pretending what it would be
like to feel that.
(22:59):
Yeah.
Oh, it reminds me of Harry when he finds the mirror of Erisad and he just goes there every
night.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly that.
Also, way to pull that name out of your ass.
I would have been like that one mirror that I don't know where that I don't know where
that came from.
It just popped my head and I was like, yeah, I got this shit.
(23:23):
So Winter goes on to say that he made this place for his brother and that they both actually
used to carve ice sculptures, as we know from the prologue.
But specifically, he wanted his brothers to remember their parents, which is why he carved
so many different like scenes with the four of them.
Cam then asks him to tell her about his family and he does.
As they spend the day like that, Winter realizes that his brother, Garrick, likely would have
(23:44):
liked Cam very, very much.
Oh.
The next day, Winter feels energized because he got his rocks off.
Gross.
He also feels emboldened to do right by his wife.
So he goes to where he knows she'll be lunching with the rest of the ladies at court.
He observes their interaction for a moment before entering and can tell that Cam is being
(24:05):
isolated by much of the court.
He tells us, quote, Cam's lovely expressive face was drawn in a blank mask, all her bright
vitality and passion tamped down and hidden away, leaving a lifeless wooden character
of Wind's wild summer rose.
Yeah, dude, you did that.
Right.
And he still doesn't own it.
Even in this inner monologue, he doesn't own any of that.
(24:27):
Right.
He does come close to it at the end of it.
So he says, well, he barges into the room and invites her to go riding with him, surprising
everyone in the room, including Cam.
And internally, he resolves that, quote, his queen, who had been an outcast in her own
home all her life, would not be an outcast in his.
And that his disgraceful lack of care for her ended today.
(24:47):
So he at least acknowledges it internally, but he never even apologizes to Cam for it.
No, which would have gone a long way.
At least he was acknowledged a little bit, but I wish he acknowledged it to her.
Yeah.
So they go riding alone, despite Valak's objections.
They find the countryside covered in snow from their storm, from when they were fighting
(25:10):
and having sex.
Grr.
And it causes Cam to ask about avalanches.
And Winter tells her that his people manage them even without his weather gifts.
Blah, blah.
It's just a fact of life.
So they end up stopping in a pub in a town that Cam knows despises her.
But Winter makes a show of being generous and enjoying Cam's company, and she realizes
(25:32):
as they leave that he's doing this on purpose.
To show them like, hey, I like her, you should too.
Exactly.
Like this is my queen and is your queen too.
Which is cool, but that would have been better if you had done that three months ago.
Truly.
So when they're done eating, instead of heading back to the palace, they keep heading away
(25:53):
from it because Winter wants to show Cam something.
And they end up at a pond with a frozen waterfall.
Cam recognizes the place from Winter's sculpture garden and is exceedingly touched that he
brought her there.
We learn that it's near a hunting lodge that his family used when they were alive.
Winter proceeds to teach Cam how to ice skate so that she can see the cave behind the waterfall
(26:14):
for herself.
And this is an incredibly long scene that I wish I didn't read because it's just boring.
It's so long.
It's like 20 pages of ice skating.
Well, because we're literally walked through like Winter teaching somebody who has never
ice skated before in her life how to be on skates and then use them.
(26:35):
And I'm just like, I want to die.
This is awful.
It was horrible.
This is such a part that I was like, this book doesn't need to be this long.
Yeah.
A lot of editing could have really helped this scene.
It's not even that endearing.
Like it is for the first page and then I'm just like, okay, I got it.
(26:55):
I got it.
Let's go.
Yeah.
So during this exchange, Cam asks about Elka and whether Winter wishes that Cam was more
like Elka.
And Winter vehemently says no.
It's here that he also finally tells Cam that he doesn't say Rekha in a romantic light
at all and never has that she's just a friend.
(27:18):
He also tells Cam that she has always been much more than a friend ever since the first
time that he saw her dressed up as a maid.
He admits that Cam's father thought that he was giving him the daughter that Winter wanted
the least, but in reality, he was giving him the daughter that he wanted the most.
Aw, which like she doesn't fully believe him, but we know that's true because that
(27:39):
was in her monologue.
So I liked that he said it.
I liked that he said it too.
And that I guess is the closest thing we're ever going to get to an apology from him.
But I was glad that he at least admitted that like, hey, I do actually like you.
Yeah.
And I liked you from the start.
Yeah.
So when Cam finally feels confident enough, she goes over to the cave on her own and Winter
(28:01):
tells her that this is the cave that his father hid, quote, dragon treasure inside for him
to find.
And that he did the same for his brother, Garrick, when Garrick was young.
It's here that Cam realizes that Winter would make a very good father because he would bring
the his children happiness, belonging, security and the knowledge that both their parents
loved and wanted them.
(28:24):
And she thanks Winter for bringing her there and sharing that with her.
Oh, so this is kind of weird because this is this is really the first time that they
spend any time together talking that doesn't involve sex.
And this is weird for Cam in particular because she realizes that Winter knows so little about
(28:45):
her, but he's probably the one who knows her the best in the world.
And she's like, wow.
How did I get here?
That that was such a dark like it's not a darker relation for her.
But to me, I was like, girl.
Yeah.
What?
You got to get some some friends, man.
(29:05):
You got to get some friends.
Christy doesn't count because he's your servant, man.
Like nobody that like exactly, exactly.
Hopefully your husband will keep learning about you.
But oh.
So like I said, she realizes that Winter is actually a good man, spoilers.
(29:26):
And it's the first time that she can envision a life together with him or a future that
she believes in.
On the way back, though, the bliss is kind of shattered a little bit because they have
a frustrating conversation about the war.
Cam still believes that her brother Falcon is good.
(29:48):
And obviously Winter has very different opinions about this.
He tells her about the village the Falcon used as a distraction for his escape.
And Cam says that that must be a lie.
Her blind faith is just, ugh.
I hate it so much.
And I don't know.
(30:10):
I don't know.
Maybe it's the thing that like when you're presented with information that contradicts
your beliefs, you just dig your heels in.
But I feel like she already has a question about Falcon's behavior.
And so it just takes her a little bit too long for me to be like, actually, yeah, that
tracks.
Exactly.
Yeah.
It takes too long.
(30:31):
So Winter tells her that she's a fool if she doesn't believe that that's what happens
and tells her that if Falcon ever steps foot in Winter Craig again, that Winter will personally
kill him and anybody else who offered Falcon aid.
And yes, that was kind of a threat.
Yep, sure was.
Yep, sure was.
(30:52):
This tense discussion is interrupted, though, when they come upon a village that's been
buried under an avalanche.
They immediately decide to help, even though Winter really doesn't want Camson to help
at all and to go as far away from the place as possible.
But Cam's like, no, these are my people too.
Let me help.
So they do.
So as they approach, they see a lot of people trying to like physically dig people out of
(31:13):
their homes.
But Cam is like, there's got to be a better way.
So she stands on the roof of a house and uses her weather gifts to melt the snow on the
roof of the house, which is like super efficient.
But she doesn't have to summon a storm to do this.
She just like heaps up her body and like melts the snow around her.
And it's super effective.
(31:33):
Yeah, but like, how does magic work then?
I don't know.
And I don't think she knows.
No, I don't think I don't think anybody knows.
No one knows.
So she does this several times and is able to expedite the search and rescue operation
and earn the respect of the townspeople with whom she worked.
We find out that only 21 of the 200 villagers were lost in the avalanche and that it was
(31:56):
the most successful avalanche rescue in winter Craig history.
Thanks to Cam.
Nice.
When they get back to the palace, both winter and Cam are beat.
Winter tucks Cam into bed and turns to leave, but she reaches for him and asks him to stay
for the first time.
So he does.
As winter holds her close, he admits to himself that of the people he loves, only Cam makes
(32:18):
the ice heart retreat.
He admits to himself that he fought the feeling for so long because he's terrified that Cam
will betray him just as Elka did.
But if that were to happen, it would destroy him this time.
This is also when he tells us that his wolf spirit recognizes Cam as his mate and that
when wolf spirits mate, I guess they mate for life.
But God forbid he tells her he likes her.
(32:40):
Girl, right?
Like, come on.
Like we get all of this and he just doesn't tell her and she won't tell him and it's infuriating.
Yeah.
Despite the fact that he has said over and over again that he doesn't think that she's
like capable of telling a lie convincingly or being a traitor.
So like, if you're worried about her helping her brother, you just have to keep her physically
(33:03):
away from her brother.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Anyway, in the morning, they're disturbed by Bella, who is terrified and retreats until
winter leaves.
But he's not gone for long.
I think he just gets like clothes or something because he joins Cam for tea shortly thereafter.
It's the same tea that she has every morning that we've been given to suspect that Bella
(33:26):
can't brew correctly because it's super bitter.
But as soon as winter tastes it, he becomes irate, channeling the full force of the ice
heart because he tastes it for what it is, black tansy, which we learn is also an herb
that acts essentially like Plan B.
Yoke.
Winter calls Cam deceitful and a traitor and like is almost close to killing her, but
(33:52):
it's clear.
It becomes like increasingly clear that she has no idea what's going on and quickly surmise
that Bella has been the one dosing Cam without her knowledge, which is why the tea has always
been so bitter.
Right.
But this is also one of those examples of like these people are just zero to 100 all
the time.
Yeah, like he like leaps up, freezes the tea cup, it shatters and he like literally is
(34:17):
just about to murder her.
And his eyes go wide, like he just becomes rigid.
Yeah.
And she's like, I can't even defend myself because I don't know why you're mad.
All I did was offer you some of my tea.
Yeah.
What?
Also, like this would be giving them way too much credit.
(34:40):
But if she was taking this, wouldn't she like avoid offering him the tea because she knows
he would identify it?
Well, yeah, that's that's a dead giveaway for me, right?
Yeah.
But she hands it to him.
She's like, here you go.
Let's share.
This is cute.
Have some of this shitty tea that my ladies made can't brew for shit.
Right.
(35:00):
This is stupid.
This was such a jarring scene too because when I first read it, it felt like it almost
felt like he had been shot because the reaction was so like swift and like seemingly out of
nowhere.
Like I the first time I read it, I didn't even clock that he tried the tea.
(35:21):
I clocked they tried the tea, but I thought there was like straight up poison in it and
he was going to think it was like an assassination attempt, not where I went.
Yeah.
It was very strange, very jarring.
Yeah.
It was very jarring.
So anyway, they jail Bella and question her for all she knows.
(35:41):
It comes out that she was sent by cam's father to ensure that cam would not bear a child
and eventually die, which seems like the opposite of what he would want because winter would
just come back and take a daughter that verdant actually likes.
Right.
Because like, yeah, he doesn't want.
I mean, it's just like pure hatred of cam.
But I had that question too because yeah, you just want cam dead, but you love your
(36:04):
other children.
I thought, I thought, well, and it's not that Bella was trying to, it's not like there were
other plots that we ever find out about that were geared toward killing winter.
It was just about preventing her from getting pregnant.
Exactly.
Specifically so she would die.
Specifically so she would be murdered because they all think that that's what the mercy
(36:26):
of the mountains is.
Right.
Which turns out that's not what it is anyway.
So.
Yeah.
I just didn't, I didn't understand the motivations there.
Me either.
Not, not at all.
It seemed really like just wedged in there.
(36:47):
Yeah.
Wedged is a good way to put it.
So it becomes clear that Bella has been using Falcons to communicate with Ferdinand or his
associates on this plot and Cam is struck that she didn't know that and realizes that
winter suspected her of being the spy.
No shit girl.
No shit.
The fact that she's just like, you thought I was a spy.
(37:09):
I'm like, girl.
Like of course he did.
What?
What?
So winter and Cam leave the rest of the questioning to the professionals and winter seems to be
convinced of Cam's innocence.
With Valak alone with his like inner circle, winter voices this position though Valak is
still all kinds of suspicious.
This is when it comes out that the day that Cam bled when she met Christy, she had a miscarriage.
(37:33):
Probably due to the black tansy and maybe the kick but unclear still.
Because she was still double poisoned and kicked so it's just a little confusing.
It's like the definition of kicking her when she's down.
Yeah.
Completely unnecessary.
(37:54):
This is what I'm talking about with like the damsel in distress.
Damsel in distress is so fucking hard in this book.
It just feels like a lot.
It's over and over.
Who?
No one needs to poison the girl twice and physically kick her.
Right.
In one scene.
My father hates me.
He beats me.
(38:14):
I think my husband's going to kill me.
Then my wounds are infected on the journey here and then I know my husband's going to
kill me because I don't give him a child and then I'm here and my maid is poisoning me
and then the townspeople are poisoning me and then I got kicked in the stuff like it's
just there's so much.
There's so much over and over and over and over again.
(38:38):
Kick her when she's down.
Kick her when she's down.
It's horrible.
Yeah.
And look, most of it I was here for, I'm not going to lie.
But no, I do love a good damsel in distress, but it's sort of like Jesus Christ.
Yeah.
Looked at it with a critical eye.
You're just like, excuse me.
Yes.
Anyway.
So ultimately Winter tells Valak to back off and to try to get along with Cam because
(39:00):
she is the only wife he'll ever have.
So then it's three days later and they put Bella out on the glacier to die.
As Bella faces her fate, she warns Cam that she is but one of many, but is literally
the only one who shows up in this book.
So I don't know what the fuck she's talking about.
(39:20):
I didn't know what she was talking about either.
That didn't make any sense to me.
Yeah.
Like it feels like a pretty straightforward threat and that makes sense, but I make me
believe it a little bit more because we get to the end of this book and it's like, Bella
never happened.
Exactly.
Exactly.
So as Cam and Winter head back to the palace, he tells her that Tildi had nothing to do
(39:41):
with what Bella did, which is a huge relief to Cam because she had suspected that maybe
Tildi and Bella might have been in cahoots, but that's not the case.
And then we get a whole last month of time passing.
Oh, thank God.
It was such a relief.
During this time, Cam feels happy for the first time probably in her life and even Valak
(40:04):
is trying to be sociable.
Winter and Cam are nearly inseparable and she almost admits to herself that she loves
him, but quickly remembers that she is in a political marriage and she's got a baby
to birth.
And then that makes her consider the possibility that Winter will abandon her once he has his
heir and that really crushes her mood.
Back to Winter and he gets a report of a garb spotted by a shepherd in a nearby village.
(40:27):
Winter takes it as a sign that the Ice Minions are gathering to welcome the return of their
King and God.
Okay, so are they gathering or do they just not exist when the Ice Heart isn't in a body?
I don't know.
I don't know.
And then with what happens next, where it's like they're being used or summoned, I'm
like, are they by who?
Right.
(40:48):
I was like, well, clearly they're being drawn to the Ice Heart, right?
Yeah.
Guys.
But like, where did, guys, right?
Right, guys, right?
It was very confusing to me.
These next two scenes were chaos.
These next two scenes don't need to be here.
Nope.
Nope, not at all.
So the first one is that we see Cam and Christy climbing a fucking tree in the middle of nowhere
(41:11):
to get a view of literally nothing.
And they hear a screech and Christy is like, oh God, it's the garb.
Don't make a sound.
We got to go.
And then they flee back to the castle.
And that's it.
It was, and it's just there to again make the damsel be in distress.
She didn't need to be out there at all.
There was.
(41:32):
We didn't need to be there.
We didn't need to see this.
It doesn't change anything that happens next, except that it gives Winter more to worry
about because she was there, but now she's fine.
Right.
Also, what I think is interesting is like, we see her, no, never mind.
I think about her later with the garments.
(41:52):
But like, because Christy is like, you have to run.
I'll protect you.
And like, so she gets down and they leave.
But I felt like Christy stopped existing until they were safe.
Yeah.
No, I agree.
I was like, did you abandon him?
Or like, is he right behind you?
He's there.
He's there the whole time.
He's just really, he's just really stealthy.
(42:13):
Yeah.
So they're, they're like fleeing back to the palace.
And I should mention that they hear three long blasts of a horn that signals that the
king has called for a great hunt.
And the great hunt is specifically to get rid of the garb.
So during this great hunt, Cam, of course, has to stay behind.
Winter tells her it's because she will be a distraction to him if she attends.
(42:34):
It's incredibly dangerous.
And even though Galacia will go because she's got the icebeers, she is trained to hunt the
garb.
Winter makes Cam promise to stay at the palace and she does.
I wonder how long that'll last.
Four seconds because she's a dumb, dummy.
Yeah.
I mean, for somebody who the keeping promises and being like an oath, like non breaker is
(42:56):
kind of a big theme in this book.
And for somebody who sees herself as somebody who keeps her word, she doesn't.
Ever.
Often.
Nope.
Nope.
Not at all.
So winter and the hunting party depart and after four days, Cam is restless with Lady
Mel.
She learns that the great hunt usually lasts for a couple of weeks.
(43:19):
And Lady Mel goes on to tell her that only single women ever ride with the hunt since
men fiercely protect their wives.
Okay.
She also says though Kings have died in the great hunt before, it's unlikely winter will
fall to the garb because of the ice heart to which I ask.
Okay.
So why are there great hunts in the past?
(43:39):
Is it only when there's an ice heart?
If so, how many people have drunk the ice heart that aren't the, the King right?
I had that question too.
Like, cause it sounds like, okay.
So she says what there's been three or five.
She just said it, but there's been a few in her lifetime, but the last one was when the
ice giant giants came when winter was like 16.
(44:00):
So he didn't have the ice heart.
So who had the ice heart?
Or are they just around always and attracted to the ice heart?
Well, and if, if the ice heart is slowly turning you into the master of these beings, why can't
like, at what point can you command them?
Exactly.
Like, if they're your minions, why are they out to kill you and everything else?
(44:22):
Right.
It felt very, here's this problem and I want to make it make sense, but like, it, it doesn't
really tie together when the garb could just be their own threat.
It's just, yeah, it was very hand wavy.
It's, and it feels like the plot equivalent of the incest spaghetti.
Like, we're going to weave all these things together, but they don't need to be connected.
(44:47):
Yes.
Very, very that.
So back to winter who's tracking the garb with his men, but they haven't found them
yet.
They get emissive from the palace that suggests the garb didn't come here on their own.
Rather someone lured them there.
And I just feel like this is a great example of like scenes that I don't need to see because
there's like a lot of detail in this scene about how they're tracking them and they're
(45:09):
moving back and forth and I'm like, I don't care.
No, I don't care.
I don't care.
Any of that.
None of it matters.
Yeah.
No.
So back with Cam, she's received a note.
This note tells her that the great hunt is an ambush to kill the king and that she should
meet this person at someplace called the old mill if she wants to help.
Where's the old mill?
(45:29):
I don't, I couldn't fucking tell you.
I couldn't tell you.
Cam thinks this note is from Christie for some reason, but when she goes to meet the
person at this old mill place, she finds Rekha instead.
She's immediately on edge because it's Rekha, but Rekha somehow convinces her that she's
actually just concerned about the king and she's even about to leave Cam behind, but
(45:52):
ultimately Cam's like, no, I'll go with you.
Rekha just played her like a fucking fiddle.
Like, oh, fine.
That was so easy.
That was so easy.
It was so easy and like, why would you go without your guards?
But also the other thing I don't understand is it's been established previously that Cam
is always followed by guards.
I always know where she is, but this note says like meet me by the place we went last
(46:13):
week and she's like, how no one else would possibly know about that because only Christie
knows.
Everyone fucking knows because you're being watched all the time.
Nothing is secret.
But at this point, she knows that.
I know.
Or she's at least told us that she knows that.
But then she doesn't do the thing and it doesn't make any sense to me.
I'd be like, the king is in danger, so let's go just the two of us with no guards to try
(46:36):
and find him.
Yeah.
No, make that make sense, right?
Yeah.
And even if that was the case, like in the note, they're like, oh, the priestesses are
going to try to blah, blah, blah.
So you think Valak is just going to sit by and let that happen?
Exactly.
Exactly.
And then when she's there and it is Reika and Reika's like, fine, I'll just go without
you because I'm the only one who loves him or whatever.
(46:57):
And she's like, okay, we'll go together.
Like, oh, God, it's just so easy.
It's just you're a child.
Cam, what are you fucking doing?
What are you going to do?
You're going to show up and fight these people off?
You can barely control your magic.
You're going to be a liability.
Exactly.
And you'll find someone who can actually help because Reika is not the one.
(47:18):
Like even if this note was valid, which like spoiler alert, it's not, she's not the one.
Why would you trust her?
No.
But they go and they ride for a full day and a night trying to find the Garm hunting
party.
But Reika is leading the way since Cam doesn't know the first thing about hunting.
But once they get to a particular location, Reika tells Cam that it's time to die.
(47:41):
And she attacks Cam with what sounds like a gardening hoe.
That's what I was picturing.
But she like claws her on the back in the hind quarters of the horse because they're
still on horses.
She like attacks her while she's on the horse.
It just feels like it wasn't very well thought out.
Like, no.
And it was such like, I have a big head and little arms.
(48:02):
I'm wondering what this plan was.
Also it's such like a villain reveal because they're like talking about the Garm and Reika
is something like, they'll find you when they smell the blood.
Bam!
Like, it...
Girl, what?
Yeah, it was very overdramatic.
And she hits the horse more than she hits Cam.
(48:22):
It was just terribly done.
Like, why not do it?
Because they're both on horses.
She doesn't even get her off the fucking horse.
No, like stop for like a snack.
Get off the horses.
Like, and because this book gives us too much detail.
They stopped earlier to water the horses.
They stopped like 20 times and got off the horses.
Why didn't she attack then?
(48:42):
Right.
Perfect opportunity.
So Cam takes off on her horse and ends up at the lake where Winter taught her how to
ice skate with the cave.
And her horse dies somehow.
And then the Garmer there.
Hi.
Hi, it's me.
And then we're back with Winter and they've gotten word that the Garm have abruptly changed
course.
(49:03):
How?
I don't know.
But they're following them.
And this was where it was like every page would switch perspectives but without a page
break.
And it was, I hated it.
I hated it.
Yeah.
It was very Scooby-Doo.
Yeah.
Because so we're with Cam, we're back with Winter and now we're back with Cam again.
And we get the description of the Garm finally.
(49:25):
It's described as being as big as a horse with glowing red eyes, shaggy tail?
A shaggy tail?
An earless head.
And then like it doesn't have fur like it does on its tail.
It has whiskers all along its body that it uses to sense.
And of course razor sharp teeth.
It also drools blue slime and has toxic breath that traps its prey with freezing cold immobility.
(49:48):
Ew.
Super fun.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Ew.
It was wild.
So she runs from this beast and she ends up climbing a tree trying to get free but of
course the thing climbs trees too.
And because we're in a Scooby-Doo episode, we're back to Winter who's sprinting toward
where they think the Garm is.
(50:08):
They come upon a crevasse in the glacia and there's a storm brewing.
And because of the storm, Winter realizes that Cam must be the reason that the Garm
have changed course and that makes him frantic.
So he spurs his horse to jump the crevasse and he makes it but the glacia crumbles underneath
(50:29):
him and the crevasse widens, leaving his men to find another way around.
So it's just Winter.
By himself, of course.
Did I lose you?
Back to Cam.
No, no, no.
I'm sorry.
I lost my place in my notes.
I was like, there's so many back to Cam, back to Cam, back to Cam.
(50:50):
Because it's just like which one are we at?
That's how I felt every time.
Yeah.
That's how I felt reading this whole chapter of like where am I?
Yeah.
Well, Anna, I just feel like you could have kept some of those parts together so that
it was a little less jarring.
Exactly.
But nope.
(51:12):
So we're back with Cam again, who's still climbing for her life, but a strong gust of
wind from her own storm makes her lose her footing.
And that gives her an idea to use the wind to help her jump from tree to tree, which
she does until she doesn't and misses and falls to the ground after smacking a few branches
along the way.
So now she's on the ground, more broken and more injured.
(51:34):
She knows she has to find some shelter from the garb who is quickly descending the tree
after her.
She makes her way to the ice cave behind the waterfall and wedges herself into it, hopefully
out of the garb's reach.
Something I did like in here is because it is so like Scooby-Doo and chaotic, but she
has this external monologue where she's like, you fucking climb, do you?
What kind of wolf climbs trees?
(51:55):
And just pure like, what is happening?
And I thought that was entertaining.
I loved that too, because at some point she's like, you've got to be joking.
Exactly.
And I thought that was really great.
Yeah.
I really liked the candor there.
And it was so much, much needed like comic relief because this was the seventh time her
life has been in danger.
(52:15):
And this is the time that I feel like it's the most dire, with the exception of the beginning,
but yeah.
Yeah, truly.
So she's wedged in this cave, the garb is coming after her.
And just before she finds out whether she's out of reach of the garb, it twitches and
dies.
And when it's dragged out, she realizes Winter has saved her.
(52:35):
She's so relieved that she starts crying and Winter starts tending to her wounds as best
he can.
But the shock is setting in.
And so Cam can barely speak when he asks her how she got so injured.
She does manage to say though that Rhaegha told her someone was trying to kill Winter
and Rhaegha is the one who attacked her.
Rhaegha is the problem.
Can we finally admit it?
(52:56):
Winter?
Yeah, brother.
People have been telling you this all along.
I know, God.
And yet.
And yet.
So Winter asks her why she came to save him, but before she can tell him that she loves
him, she realizes that there's another garb behind him about to attack.
Actually two garb, which is odd because they're supposed to be solitary killers.
(53:18):
I was like, but they're clearly not here.
They're clearly not.
Okay.
But also I have, if they're solitary killer, I thought they were like basically the dogs
of the frost giants.
So like, so are they solitary?
I don't know.
And that's the kind of thing of like, don't tell me that.
Yeah.
Cause I didn't need to know that.
Cause now you're just getting more and more questions.
(53:39):
That's like, then why are they all here?
Or if they're just drawn to the ice heart, then like, wouldn't there be more than one
anyway?
And how many are there?
Blood is the ice heart.
If you have the ice heart, why can't you just say heal and like, and the whole thing?
Exactly.
So winter tries to fight these two off, but he's eventually overpowered and knows that
(54:00):
death is imminent.
But just before the garb can make the final killing blow, Cam throws a rock at the garb
to distract them.
And then it comes after her, both of them.
So Cam decides to try to channel lightning to her advantage because remember it's storming
outside.
So she does that and fries both of the remaining garb and heals herself in the process, which
(54:21):
is handy.
But the use of her weather gifts has drained her to the point that she's like almost unconscious.
And so she crawls back to winter's unconscious form, lies on top of him and succumbs to the
darkness herself.
I get a little tired of her draining herself and passing out.
Like I get it, but if I understand the rules of the magic more, I think it would make me
(54:43):
feel better.
But instead it just feels like, again, let's kick her while she's down.
Yeah, because she passes out during other things that aren't using her magic that feel
like they shouldn't make her pass out.
And so now I don't know, like, is she strong or is she effectively going up a flight of
(55:03):
stairs and passing out?
Exactly.
And it kind of explains her illness from the beginning because she's being poisoned
and now she's not.
But we just don't know enough about it.
And I'm just like, okay, of course she's unconscious again.
Right.
And this is really unfortunate because, like, as we'll learn, finding both of them unconscious
(55:24):
without a story to tell is bad for Cam.
Yeah.
So it's even more of the damsel in distressing.
So something to look forward to.
Because that's where you're going to end, isn't it?
Yeah, that's where I'm going to end.
They are unconscious in the darkness.
(55:45):
Cool, cool, cool, cool.
And yeah, cool, cool, cool, cool.
So yeah, that's what we're going to end part three, part four, we'll cover the rest of
the book and our ratings.
So stay tuned for that.
So yeah, that's part three of The Winter King by C.L. Wilson.
Let us know what you thought on the socials.
You can find us on Facebook, Goodreads, TikTok, and Instagram at Spice Readers Pod.
(56:08):
And if you like our content and want more, consider becoming a patron where we release
Patreon exclusive episodes on our off weeks.
So until next time, we'll see ya.
Bye.
A
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.